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Open Mike 17/09/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 17th, 2017 - 207 comments
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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

207 comments on “Open Mike 17/09/2017 ”

  1. Tony Veitch (not etc) 1

    We need to start being really innovative in this country if we are to continue to be a food producer. Industrial farming is NOT the answer!

    From The Canary:

    “China has signed a $300m trade deal to import Israel’s lab-grown meat technologies. Currently, China is the largest producer of carbon dioxide emissions in the world (and is infamous for its smoggy cities). But this new deal may help the country to shake off this reputation, and significantly reduce its carbon footprint.

    “Lab-grown meat is more sustainable than traditional meat since – as a 2011 study found – meat grown in a lab would cut down on associated land use by 99%, and reduce water use by 90%. We are losing both arable land and fresh water, so we need to start producing food in a way that doesn’t deplete these precious resources.

    “Innovative food tech firms in Israel working on lab-grown meat include SuperMeat and Future Meat. Lab-grown meat is also called ‘clean meat’, due to its low environmental impact, and because it doesn’t involve the use of GMOs, pesticides, antibiotics or hormones. Beyond these environmental and health benefits, animal welfare advocates praise lab-grown meat for its potential to save the lives of billions of animals. If lab-grown meat was the norm, it would eradicate the need for factory farming.

    “China consumes 28% of the world’s meat. This may go some way to explaining why it’s such a big polluter, since the evidence clearly demonstrates that animal agriculture isn’t very sustainable.”


  2. Adrian 2

    This sounds much like the mythical Perpetual Motion Machine. You can’t get a lot from nothing, in fact according to physical laws energy out equals energy in.
    To cut down on land use by 99% and water by 90% sounds good but the energy out.i.e the ” meat” must equal a lot less than the energy in, efficiency losses etc.
    A lot of smoke and mirrors here I think.

    • Andre 2.1

      Those improvements from lab-grown meat are possible because of the truly awesome inefficiencies and energy waste involved in turning sunlight into vegetable matter via photosynthesis, then really inefficiently turning the energy in that vegetable matter into meat we eat by using it to feed animals that waste most of it creating pollution and just living while they grow large enough for us to murder them in order to eat them.

      • marty mars 2.1.1

        Excellent explanation – is photosynthesis awesomely inefficient? Once the light starts activating stuff I always thought it was relatively efficient.

        • Andre

          The best number range I’ve seen for photosynthesis efficiency in turning solar energy into plant matter biochemical energy is 3% to 6%, and that includes all the indigestible components.

          In real practical terms, converting sunlight into food energy that’s actually available to animal digestive systems tends to be under 1% efficiency.


          For perspective, solar power systems are commonly available in the 15% to 20% range, with lab demonstrations up to 40%. ISTR articles about lab demo artificial photosynthesis systems converting sunlight to chemical energy with around 5% to 10% efficiency.

      • swordfish 2.1.2

        You’ve forced me into yet another Young Ones moment:


        SCENE: Looking at the closed bathroom door. Rick comes out, dressed in a robe, looking clean and combed for once]

        RICK: Neil! The bathrooms free! Unlike the country under the Thatcher-ite junta!

        [Rick turns and steps to exit, trips over Neil, who is sitting on the floor with a cheap blue shower cap on his head]

        RICK: [worriedly]: What are you doing down there, Neil?

        NEIL: [sounding depressed]: Queuing.

        RICK: How long have you been there?

        NEIL: 30 years.

        RICK: You’ve been listening, haven’t you Neil? You’ve been squatting there listening to what I’ve been doing in the bath! Is that how you get your kicks these days? It is, isn’t it, you little perv-y!

        NEIL: I wasn’t listening. Anyway, what were you doing?

        RICK:I wasn’t doing anything.

        NEIL:Well, I can’t have heard anything, can I?

        RICK: And anyway Neil, don’t think that me, Mike and Vyvyan don’t know exactly what you get up to in there. So I wouldn’t go around spilling the beans if I was you!

        NEIL: [now very worried]: What do you know about the beans?

        RICK: Nothing!

        [RICK, confidant that he’d won, marches to his bedroom, then stops, reconsiders, and turns back to Neil, who has picked up his guitar and his Thermos and is entering the bathroom]

        What beans?

        NEIL: Oh. Nothing. Ha, Ha, Ha. No beans! Ha ha.

        [Neil is closing the door, but Rick forces himself in]

        RICK: Listen Neil, I don’t have time to stand around here all night being subjected to your revolting innuendoes! Do you want that bath water or not?

        NEIL: Uh…

        RICK: You haven’t got much of a choice, actually, because there’s no more hot water.

        NEIL: [looks]: Well, it’s a bit cloudy, Rick.

        [We see a shot of a disgustingly dirty tub, filled with horrible, thick black sludge]

        RICK: Well, don’t look at me Neil. Vyvyan had the bath before me and Mike had it before him, and anyway Neil, the whole thing is left over from the bath you had last Tuesday. So stop being so bloody picky; that’s your filth!

        NEIL: I hate bath night. Oh well, here goes.

        [NEIL is off-camera. We hear a great slurp as NEIL gets in. Rick gets hit in the face with a bit of sludge that splashes out]

        It’s a bit cold!

        RICK: Oh come off it Neil! Where’s your spunk!

        [SCENE: Neil is in the tub, looking depressed, and strumming a minor chord on his guitar. Rick barges in and throws a towel off camera, perhaps in a hamper, oblivious to Neil. Rick suddenly notices the overhead light.]

        RICK: Neil, is it really necessary to have the light on when you’re in the bath?

        NEIL: Well… yeah!

        RICK: Why, what are you planning to do, photosynthesise? We all pay for the electricity in this house you know!

        [turns it off and leaves, slamming the door]

  3. Ad 3

    Much as I love a great game of Rugby, the All Black dominance of South Africa last night was seriously not good for the game.


    The All Blacks showed extraordinary kinetic skills, spatial daring, liquid lines, and sheer enjoyment for what they were doing.

    But they haven’t lost in so long that it’s hard to get anyone else too interested in the game.

    It’s at the sevens format that the game is making any global inroads, but it’s not going to broaden out as an adventure for more of the world to love and enjoy unless the US or Japan really win something big and unexpected, and then go on to build the game up at a senior level to challenge American Football.

    Sometimes, strangely, you can be too good at something.

    • The decrypter 3.1

      Ad.Takes the herald headlines off how hopeless Labour are .

    • Bearded Git 3.2

      Agreed Ad…..I turned it off at half time and watched something else…..the game against Oz where the AB’s won with 2 minutes to go was a truly fantastic game.

      The problem is that SA have 50-60 of their best players playing in Europe. Similar things are happening with cricket. The Rand is very weak because of the weakness of the SA economy and there is a continuous sport and brain drain overseas…especially Canada Oz NZ UK.

      • alwyn 3.2.1

        I can suggest one way we could get a more even contest.
        If we elect, God forbid, a Government made up of Labour and the Greens things will soon change.

        Imagine if we insist on equal pay for men and women ….. rugby players.
        That would probably mean cutting the All Black salaries in half to get the money.
        Then we could insist that women have half the All Black positions in each game. They may play well but I don’t like their chances of tackling a 2.04 metre, 120 kg behemoth like Brodie Retallick on a charge like his try last night.
        Then we could insist that handicapped people must be represented and at least one position in the team be reserved for them.

        Then we could introduce some of the other economic policies like getting rid of most of the dairy farms. We got a lot of All Black Players from there. People like the idols of my youth. Don Clarke, Colin Meads and Brian Lochore for example.
        We would very quickly have most of the good players going off to Europe.
        The New Zealand dollar would slump.
        Games with South Africa or Australia would become very even.

        It would be awful rugby though and I’m not sure whether I would bother to watch.

        • Muttonbird

          I knew it wouldn’t be long before a RWNJ came along and suggested a change in government would put All Blacks success at risk.

          • alwyn

            You should be in Church instead or reading this blog Muttonbird.
            Isn’t Gaia like Moloch and requires worship?
            Or is there a different Sabbath perhaps?

            • Muttonbird

              Did you know Meads’ peers called him ‘the travelling thug’?

              • alwyn

                Never heard that one. I don’t think I will check it out with a couple of my friends who played with him. They might not be amused and they are much bigger than I am. Much tougher too.

                Would you have dared to say it a few weeks ago in Te Kuiti?
                Thought not.

                • Muttonbird

                  He was widely known as a dirty player. He himself worried about his reputation.

                  • tracey

                    But some of alwyns best friends played with Meads so how dare you question alwyn

                    • alwyn

                      You really don’t read what people say before you spray off uninformed remarks, do you?
                      I never disputed what muttonbird said did I? I never denied it did I? I just said I had never heard that one. That is only a “denial” to someone who can’t understand English. I never said that they were “best friends” either. I just said they were friends.
                      Actually, New Zealand is so small, and there are so many ex-first class Rugby players that most people my age would know people who knew Meads and played with or against him. You may even do so yourself.
                      I am quite aware that he worried about his reputation. It got a bit late to change it though.

                • tracey

                  I understood the bit about you being too scared of your friends… the closeness of the election is really bringing out your bitterness and a bit of seething underbelly.

        • Matiri

          “handicapped people”? You are showing your lack of disability awareness and etiquette there with that obnoxious statement.

          • alwyn

            I really couldn’t be bothered looking up what the currently fashionable description is. I find the words used by the asses like you laughable rather than obnoxious.
            If you insist on feeling upset and put upon why should I deprive you of the pleasure. Even masochists have the right to what the US Declaration of Independence called “the pursuit of happiness”.
            Go ahead, have a good moment of feeling a pseudo feeling of superiority. I will meanwhile have a good laugh at your precious pretensions.

            • Muttonbird

              Just shows how out of touch you are with the modern world. I understand it must be hard for you selfish and decrepit RWNJs to countenance change because your inflated, dying egos won’t allow you to become irrelevant.

              • alwyn

                Why don’t you just join Matiri in the “We are superior because we use different words (and flat earth) Society.”
                Get a grip on yourself.

                ps. Why do you utter such nasty things about your elders. Are you one of those Ageist individuals?
                Look up Ageist in the urban dictionary and tell us whether you are closest to the “old dude” or “dumb blonde” categories they talk about.

                End of discussion.

            • Matiri

              I have a mobility permit because of my Multiple Sclerosis so I do not feel superior, pretentious or fashionable at all, there is no pleasure in debating this for me but I do feel that others more fortunate should be considerate in their choice of words out of common courtesy.

              • Muttonbird

                Thanks Matiri. Looking forward to Alwyn’s apology to you shortly.

              • alwyn

                As it happens, I have a disability permit too.
                So what? I don’t expect people to be extra kind about it.
                I, like former Speaker Margaret Wilson, really don’t think I need special consideration because of it.
                Life isn’t fair.

                • Muttonbird

                  So you describe yourself as handicapped? Lets be clear here.

                  • Matiri

                    Or a hindrance or a millstone?

                    • alwyn

                      I don’t bother to describe myself as anything other than a human being and a New Zealander.
                      “hindrance”? It can be inconvenient sometimes but hindrance is a bit strong. I just can’t walk very far or very fast.
                      “Millstone”? Certainly not

                    • tracey

                      That is easy when you walk in privilege as a white male.

                      You just call yourself a human being but others you call handicapped.

                  • tracey

                    A pretty raw nerve got hit here!

            • tracey

              Wow alwyn. This may be your nastiest response yet. “currently fashionable description”. Try people. Might be easier for you to use derogatory labels to dehumaise so you can ignore how those you vote for treat them

              • alwyn

                If you read what I said you will see that “people” was exactly the word I used. I said “handicapped people”. Some of your cohort objected to the use of that phrase didn’t they?

      • BM 3.2.2

        This is having more of an impact

        If you can’t play rugby in South Africa your only option is to go overseas.

        New race quotas for SA rugby, cricket and netball revealed

        The document forecasts that 60% of full-time staff will be black South Africans by 2018.
        The document forecasts that 45% of national players (male) will be black South Africans by 2018.
        The document forecasts that 80% of national players (female) will be black South Africans by 2018.
        The document forecasts that 60% of nationally accredited coaches will be black South Africans by 2018.


        The South African government are applying these quotas throughout all aspects of South African life.

        For example, only black-owned businesses get government work, they’re trying to make it as tough as possible for white people, they want all the whites gone.

        • Muttonbird

          No. Bearded Git has it right, not that a racist like you would understand because the first port of call for your type is to blame black people as being inferior.

          It is SARU’s policy of selecting offshore players which is putting pressure on SA and Springbok rugby. Same thing to a lesser extent is happening in Australia.

          • BM

            God, you’re a fucking bore.

            • Muttonbird

              Why don’t you have a crack at my family like last time you old drunk?

              • BM

                When you make comments about kicking women in the c*nts it’s hard not to come to the conclusion you don’t have a lot of respect for women.

                • Muttonbird

                  I don’t respect some women but not because they are women but because they are morally corrupt.

                  Please link to where I said this. I don’t remember it. You obviously do though.

        • tracey

          White men really hate when the playing field is evened up. I guess all those years of telling themselves they are just superior has blinded them to reality.

          Sharing sucks it seems. After years of oppression, violence and wealth stripping the blacks get preferential treatment? Karma sure is a bitch and the big brave white man, he just whimper like a newborn.

    • gsays 3.3

      “But they haven’t lost in so long that it’s hard to get anyone else too interested in the game.”

      Cough cough, lions second test, cough, ireland in chicago Nov ’16, cough cough.

      I agree the home test against wallabies, was a more thrilling game but it was of inferior quality, skill wise.
      Last night I saw sbw silence any critics, Mackenzie improve despite early fluffs and Aaron Smith make the most of good quick ball and an all round stellar performance from the rest.
      It’s a peak and there will be troughs.
      All free on you tube a couple of hours after the game.

      Plus,in the tier or two down, Manawatu had a great match and win against Waikato.

  4. mickysavage 4

    Big Q&A on today. Robert Reid will be representing the left (yay!) Show him some love and solidarity on Twitter …

    • Cinny 4.1

      Wow, Corin is grilling Bill big time at the moment, link to watch here, go Corin


      • ianmac 4.1.1

        First time I have seen Bill under pressure. Well done Corin. Especially the bit about did it bother Bill’s sense of integrity that attack ads using false “facts” were being used?
        Funny that the panel barely touched on Bill’s performance???

    • Will Q+A give disclosure on his solidarity with Labour and their policies?

      Labour’s employment policy gives working peope something to vote for

      The 27,000-strong FIRST Union has described Labour’s newly Employment Policy as giving its members something to vote for.

      “It is pleasing to see the Labour Party putting forward policies that will reverse all of the anti-worker changes made to the Employment Relations Act by the National Government over the last 9 years, as well as promoting longer term policies that will prevent the race to the bottom on wages.

      “Together with Labour’s health, housing and education policies this employment relations policy shows a stark difference to the policies of the current government that have failed working people over the last 9 years,” said Reid.


      I think it’s a shame that Q+A and others persist in putting forward pundits and panelists with clear political leanings (like Reid, Boag, Hooton etc) without proper disclosure.

      • Muttonbird 4.2.1

        I doubt you have a problem with Boag and Hooton.

        • Pete George

          I don’t think there’s any valid basis for asserting that. I have a problem with both of them.

          Last time Boag on she was terrible, and she has been so National for a long time cannot be seen as unbiased even when she tries a bit of balance.

          I don’t think anyone who is a lobbyist like Hooton should be used as a political commentator. There is no way of knowing what is personal and what is professional.

          • Incognito

            There is no way of knowing what is personal and what is professional.

            It doesn’t matter as opinion trumps fact in any case.

            What do you do when somebody spouts personal opinion and does not want to listen and hear what others have to say?

          • cleangreen

            Hooten only flips to Labour when he sees the tidal wave comming.

            So if we dont see him anymore – it’s best to assume he drowned this time !!!!

            • David Mac

              Yeah, Hooten is not sharing his beliefs, he’s a mercenary. Chief mouthpiece for Opinions-R-Us.

              I enjoy hearing what he has to say, how he’s spinning his latest directive.

              I wonder how much he charges? Lets buy him. He can run us up to polling day sharing with NZ how horribly wrong he has been all these years and a left vote is the only way.

      • gingercrush 4.2.2

        Honestly, far better someone completely partisan than anyone pretending to be impartial.

      • tracey 4.2.3

        Funny this is exactly what was said on media watch last Sunday. You probably didnt hear it.

    • Cinny 4.3

      Crikey that was a must watch the left were impressive, hard questions for all the leaders

      Dang Corin was fantastic his confidence has increased, been waiting for years to see him show strength in asking the hard questions, he’s nailing now with all the leaders. Corin should host the final debate.

      Bill was terrible

      Commentary interesting, change is coming, personally am very proud to be a part of it

      Link for todays Q+A episode

      TVNZ should livestream Marae as well, more leaders interviews on there today, friendly as. Lolz it pisses me off that they don’t live stream Marae, it’s a great show.

  5. starboard 5

    Dear NZCPR Reader,

    This week, in our final Election 2017 update, we look into the ‘hot’ election topic of tax and investigate some of the promises that have been made by Labour, our NZCPR Guest Commentator Anthony Willy explains why the Labour Party’s plan to disclose the details of tax policies after the election is so dishonest, and this week’s poll asks whether you agree with Labour that New Zealand needs more taxes?

    All of our NZCPR Election 2017 updates can be viewed on our NZCPR.com homepage. The policy manifestos of all Parliamentary Parties can be viewed by clicking the following links: National, Labour, New Zealand First, Greens, ACT, Maori Party.

    [lprent: I don’t mind other sites going an putting in links and referencing their posts. I do mind when it is done poorly. This particular comment doesn’t provide a link, it doesn’t say what NZCPR is (looks like a Muriel Newman ‘think-tank’), and that it is plonked in here like a piece of garbage spam by some kind of robotic troll without any consideration of either the site or with any respect for private property. Banned for 2 months for being a stupid and arrogant astroturfer. ]

  6. starboard 6


  7. Eco maori 7

    Let’s all be PROUD of OUR MAORI hearitage and culture.

    • cleangreen 7.1

      As a fifth generation NZ born pakeha now 73 I am proud of our Maori heritage 100% and was in a Maori kapahaka group for two years while working in Toronto Canada 1989/1991.

  8. Glenn 8

    “Armed with a notebook and a stethoscope, I went looking for signs of life in Bill English during three days on the campaign trail this week. It was hard work. He was vague, foggy.

    The scenery was exquisite – Palmerston North, Levin, Christchurch, even Penrose has its moments – but English barely cast a shadow. Sometimes he only seemed to exist at a molecular level. He was like a terrible actor giving a wooden performance of a political leader. Who could believe him?”

    Steve Braunias is on the road with ‘Hungry Bill’


    From The Herald, very interesting quite hilarious.

  9. Pat 9

    Roads to nowhere…

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  10. Matt 10

    National trying to convince voters in Rotorua to vote for them yesterday with a $100 million road announcement following a $72 million road announcement in Lower Hutt the previous day. One would have to think that the polling in these seats isn’t looking to good as they don’t tend to bother with bribes unless there is something in it for them. I suppose we will see how unsuccessful they have been in 7 days time.

    • cleangreen 10.1

      All these roading promises come from “the minister of tarmac” himself he was called when Minister of transport; – yes Steven Joyce no less now is the minister of finance; – so he is using all your taxes to bride the people again the crooked crook.

    • ScottGN 10.2

      They’ve spent the last week really trying to motivate their rural base around the country. I reckon they’re a bit worried that South Auckland might be turning out for Ardern…

  11. Herodotus 11

    No wonder our infrastructure is struggling to cope (eg Hospitals, transport, housing etc) when … from Billy boy
    “We reckon over the last five or six years over 150,000 Kiwis we thought were going to leave, have stayed. So it’s no wonder there’s a bit of pressure
    So NZ pop. is “only” 150,000 more than expected !! And the next govt will have to address this “oversight” 🙁

    • gingercrush 11.1

      So National actually did what they first said they were going to do and get New Zealanders to stay here rather than go overseas. And that is a bad thing why?

      • Muttonbird 11.1.1

        Not National’s doing at all. A slowdown in Australia did this.

        Did National have a plan for the unexpected stay at home Kiwis? No they did not, as Bingles admitted.

      • Herodotus 11.1.2

        Nothing wrong with that.
        It is the net 90k p.a. net immigration, and the additional 2 hours I spend each week commuting to and from work each week resulting from the added 800 cars per week on the road each week and the severe strain on other infrastructure as hospitals, schools that the govt had NOT allowed additional funding to cater for additional required infrastructure.
        And then we find out that there are more entering the country than the govt knew of on top of those that have decided to stay !!!
        Migrant figures underestimated by 60,000, Statistics NZ says

  12. Don’t Be Scared About The End Of Capitalism—Be Excited To Build What Comes Next

    These are fast-changing times. Old certainties are collapsing around us and people are scrambling for new ways of being in the world. As we pointed out in a recent article, 51% of young people in the United States no longer support the system of capitalism. And a solid 55% of Americans of all ages believe that capitalism is fundamentally unfair.

    But question capitalism in public and you’re likely to get some angry responses. People immediately assume that you want to see socialism or communism instead. They tell you to go and live in Venezuela, the current flogging-horse for socialism, or they hit you with dreary images of Soviet Russia with all its violence, dysfunction, and grey conformity. They don’t consider that you might want something beyond caricatures and old dogmas.

    Which is where we’re at now. Many are realising that capitalism, no matter how it’s dressed up, simply doesn’t work. Even in the middle of last century when capitalism, in its social-democracy guise, decreased inequality and drew a huge percentage of people out of poverty didn’t work as it was still focussed upon the need to grow.

    The authoritarian regimes of the USSR and China also didn’t work but, then, they weren’t that significantly different from capitalism – still a top down command economy.

    We need something else. Something that rewards people for working but not for owning.

    • Wayne 12.1

      USSR not significantly different to capitalism (the West). You must be joking. No choice, no freedom, no elections, gulags galore. It is obvious you did not know the difference between say East Germany and West Germany.

      • Muttonbird 12.1.1

        So, like modern day China, then?

      • And you show your ignorance yet again:

        The electoral system of the Soviet Union was based upon Chapter XI of the Constitution of the Soviet Union and by the Electoral Laws enacted in conformity with it. The Constitution and laws applied to elections in all Soviets, from the Supreme Soviets of the USSR, the Union republics and autonomous republics, through to regions, districts and towns. Voting was secret and direct via universal suffrage.

        I learned that in high school.

        And when I say not significantly different I mean that both are a top down hierarchy. National and Labour selling off our assets and signing FTAs (especially the TPPA) goes against the wishes of the population so you can’t even say that we have choice in our own governance as we’re routinely ignored by government.

        And we may not have things called gulags but our prisons aren’t something we should be proud of when you consider fight clubs and people dying in them after they’ve been dropped off of a balcony. And, of course, National removed prisoners right to vote.

        So, no, not significantly different at all.

      • reason 12.1.3

        Wayne ,,,, seeing your post reminded me of your ignorance about torture taking place under your nose …….

        This documentary details some of it …… its mainly about Bagram airbase and Afghanistan ….. I believe you’ve been there ????


        For your education anyway …..

      • Stuart Munro 12.1.4

        No, you must be joking Wayne – you’ve turned the decent society into Children of the Arbat – and you don’t get it because you’re in the black sedans like the rest of Beria’s people. Monster.

  13. ianmac 13

    In our electorate the National electorate MP had a majority of 14,000 in 2014.
    It is being said that his popularity is sagging and should it halve then the great Labour candidate could win the seat outright. Hope so as it would bring the essential party vote with her.

    • mac1 13.1

      I’m hearing sagging noises. ianmac. 60 year old farmer to me, “What’s this Labour woman like?” When asked why he was asking, he cited income inequality as his reason for changing his life time pattern. Another old National voter confessed he did not like the new MP. The old MP of course was, having been back-stabbed, visible in the back row of Winston Peter’s election meeting in Blenheim. Maybe, like me, a political junkie, but so too were his wife and daughter attending!

      In 1999, the National majority was 1486- the Green vote was over 3000.

      The National MP of the time, seeing the writing on the wall that defeat was looming for her government, asserted that she could better represent her electorate whilst in opposition.

      Let’s hope that is the case for the local National MP described by Winston Peters as the “neo-liberal backstabber who has done nothing since he entered the House.” As you say, maybe the great Labour candidate could win outright. MMP has yet to be used fully in its ability to reject poor local MPs.

      • ianmac 13.1.1

        Thanks Mac1. I imagine that the previous MP was rightly agrieved at the way he was ousted. Not that he was very active either.
        The wife of the current MP was heard to say that her husband feared that he would lose his seat this time. The drums must be sending signals.
        And I like Janette for her actions and her personality. A straight talker eh?

        • ianmac

          And Mac!, I just heard from a keen farmer, a staunch National man from the Wairarapa, says that he fears that the National MP there may loose his seat and that the Labour man is a much better candidate. Rumours rumours eh?

          • mac1

            ” I imagine that the previous MP was rightly agrieved at the way he was ousted. Not that he was very active either.” True.

            “The wife of the current MP was heard to say that her husband feared that he would lose his seat this time.” I heard the same.

            “And I like Janette for her actions and her personality. A straight talker eh?” She was today.

            Makes a man and his wife in their retirement go out and deliver pamphlets for a straight talker, eh, hearing those drums, and those rumours. Let’s take care out on those streets, ianmac!

  14. joe90 14

    White teens try to lynch 8 year old black boy – Police: kids being kids


    • marty mars 14.1

      this is a good case for investigating the parents of these teens. Hopefully their race hatred as learned behaviour can be unlearned before they get to jail which is where they will end up no doubt.

  15. joe90 15

    The always great Ta-Nehisi Coates on the race hatred that’s consumed America since day one.

    It is insufficient to state the obvious of Donald Trump: that he is a white man who would not be president were it not for this fact. With one immediate exception, Trump’s predecessors made their way to high office through the passive power of whiteness—that bloody heirloom which cannot ensure mastery of all events but can conjure a tailwind for most of them. Land theft and human plunder cleared the grounds for Trump’s forefathers and barred others from it. Once upon the field, these men became soldiers, statesmen, and scholars; held court in Paris; presided at Princeton; advanced into the Wilderness and then into the White House. Their individual triumphs made this exclusive party seem above America’s founding sins, and it was forgotten that the former was in fact bound to the latter, that all their victories had transpired on cleared grounds. No such elegant detachment can be attributed to Donald Trump—a president who, more than any other, has made the awful inheritance explicit.


    • Then the councils need to take the farms from the farmers. That seems to be the only thing that these serial law breakers will understand.

    • ianmac 16.2

      The bad are very very bad. Undermines the plea for understanding of the plight the good ones suffer. I wonder if the fines of all the others were paid?

  16. Andre 17

    An interesting article about the intersection of immigration and industrial dairying intensification in Idaho. Although the article doesn’t talk about it, Idaho too is suffering serious environmental effects from adding ever more dairy farming.


  17. Graeme 18

    I hope the contractor and landowner involved in this debacle had their insurance up to date and appropriate for what they were doing.


    But by excavating around the Marsden Pt – Wiri fuel pipeline without the pipeline operators aware of the work and onsite probably points to a pack of cowboys. That a kauri log may have been involved is small clue too. By the look of the pegs sticking out of the hole in the pipe they gave it a really good pull with the digger.

    National’s brighter future delivering again.

    • Pat 18.1

      and also demonstrates how reliant we are on imported expertise and product for our infrastructure….
      ‘NZ Refining spokesman Greg McNeill said the pipeline was likely to be shut down for several days, with two engineers flying in from Canada tomorrow.”

      something to keep in mind when considering our export industries

      • Graeme 18.1.1

        It would be a pretty specialised repair, probably have to be done in an inert atmosphere, which wouldn’t be within the skills or equipment of your average engineering shop. Expertise tends to be very global in the oil industry because it’s so complicated.

        There will be big numbers involved.

        • Pat

          not your run of the mill engineering shop no, but we do have a refinery and a gas facility somewhat closer than Canada…would have expected some maintenance and repair capability at these facilities…..but that wasn’t really my point.

    • Cinny 18.2

      Infrastructure should have been properly maintained and updated for such a product running through those pipes. I hope it has, spilling fuel on an industrial scale is a bit of a worry

      Have heard from many engineers over the years that more often than not issues happen when shortcuts are taken or maintenance is neglected. Often a large problem can be avoided if companies don’t skimp on engineering. Cause when they do skimp it costs them so much more.

    • Ed 18.3

      An expensive mistake.
      Emirates flight to Dubai flying via Christchurch today.
      Who pays for that?


    • reason 18.4

      “A pack of cowboys.” …… From top to bottom.

      ” Documents obtained under the Official Information Act by the NEPS are claimed to show that in fact, mandatory information was missing from some 80 per cent of MPI intention-to-export notices processed in 2013.

      Yet Ancientwood director Robert Teisberg was able to insist to Radio New Zealand this week that the gargantuan slabs of swamp kauri he’s selling for up to US$100,000 a pop are entirely legal, because the export has been approved by MPI.” https://publicaddress.net/envirologue/swamp-monsters-the-looting-of-northlands/

      80 per cent non compliant is good enough for this Nact Government ….

      Unless your a solo mother ……

  18. adam 19

    And then China came into the game, and bang!

    • ianmac 19.1

      Suppose the same car bodies could be recycled with electrics. One of the European makers is producing such units.

      • adam 19.1.1

        Could be good, but the infrastructure China is committed to, is the main part and in many ways the best part.

  19. Pat 20

    something i hadn’t considered (specifically) but Liam Dann raises a very good point…along with housing, another basic necessity has been outstripping the rate of Inflation in recent times.


    • The Chairman 20.1

      Sometime ago I suggested the Government may have to enter into the market. From farm to shelve, which would also give them the opportunity to generate long term employment, assist employee training and provide more oversight over incomes (namely, adopting the living wage as a minimum income for all employees they take on).

      Alternatively, but in no way as grand, a discount (subsidised by the Government) for community card holders would provide some assistance.

  20. Muttonbird 21

    Wasn’t Winston supposed to be commenting further today on the pension over-payment leak?

    • Cinny 21.1

      Sure is, this evening on ‘Sunday’ 7.30-8.30 pm TV1

      • Muttonbird 21.1.1

        Oh good. But I’m not hopeful he’s going to pin it on anyone in particular because he never has before. Also I think he’s done a deal with National already and this is just the same old publicity drive from him in order to raise profile. Nats playing along because they are toast otherwise.

    • ianmac 21.2

      He did just say on Sunday TV1 that “National had leaked the document re overpayment and it was a very senior National man who alerted Winston before the Journalist did. He said that there are some in National who have integrity. That is all.

  21. Muttonbird 22

    Great work here from The Greens. they really do understand the changing demographic of NZ and what needs to be done to help create better communities. Communities where children can be the best they can be and parents aren’t stressed out because of housing insecurity.


    National’s policy on rental housing of course is, ‘it’s the landlords house and they can do whatever they want with it in order to make a killing in house price rises’.

    • The Chairman 22.1

      “The “landlord licence” would include that the landlord be a “fit and proper person”, that they not have ‘demerits’ from bad past behaviour… “

      So no second chances for someone who may have made some mistakes in their past, for example, lied to WINZ?

      • tracey 22.1.1

        If they have demerits from past behaviour then clearly they have had second chances

      • McFlock 22.1.2

        Don’t be a moron.
        “Fit and proper” will be judged in exactly the same way that every other character-based qualification is currently judged, from liquor licenses to security guards.

        You’re just reaching for the bottom of the barrel in order to snipe.

        • The Chairman

          It wasn’t reaching it was a genuine question but it was also making a point.

          Which was, a number of Greens believe Turei should have been given a second chance for her past misbehaviour, but the same doesn’t seem to apply to landlords.

          As for what it exactly covers, I genuinely didn’t know as it was not reported in the story in the link.

          And as far as I can tell, you’re merely speculating on what the criteria will be as you didn’t provide any evidence to back your assertion.

          • McFlock

            Your entire point is based on the concept that this “fit and proper person” test will be administered completely differently to every current “fit and proper person” test, pretty much all of which would give Turei a “second chance” (in fact the lack of any charges so far would make it a “first chance”).

            Your allegations of hypocrisy are baseless. I’m shocked, shocked, that anyone on the left would make up such lies. /sarc

            • The Chairman

              “Your entire point is based on the concept that this “fit and proper person” test will be administered completely differently to every current “fit and proper person” test”

              No. Not at all.

              The test merely has to rule people out for past misbehaviour for there to be no second chances. Which current fit and proper tests do. So once again your’re just full of it.

              Turei doesn’t have to be charged, she’s already confessed. Once again, just more rubbish coming from you.

              • Muttonbird

                What a horrible little man you are. A yesterday man frightened of fairness.

              • McFlock

                The test merely has to rule people out for past misbehaviour for there to be no second chances. Which current fit and proper tests do.

                And every other test in the country ignores minor offences decades ago, and anything else irrelevant to whether the applicant should have that qualification or license.

                Minor assault convictions, driving charges, even in some cases drug offences can be overlooked after long enough time has passed with the applicant being a contributing member of society.

                If everyone had to have perfect records to pass every test, nobody would be licensed to do a damned thing.

    • The Chairman 22.2

      And where is the balance?

      No mandatory licence for tenants ensuring they’re fit and proper to rent?

      And if you are offended by that, think how some landlords will feel.

      • tracey 22.2.1

        Hang on The Chairman. Dont you choose your tenants? Get references, dont have to take anyone you do not want???

    • The Chairman 22.3

      Here’s another question.

      And what of landlords that use licensed (as part of a licensed real estate agency) or certified property managers? Will that give them an out?

  22. ianmac 23

    Just had a go at assessing the Labour fliers. They are very well done.
    Layout; tick.
    Colour balance: tick
    Overall? Excellent
    And I don’t usually take a great deal of notice of fliers but I think that this time they must have had some very professional graphic designers at work.

    • Muttonbird 23.1

      It’s better than it has been but money is crucial in photography and design and in volume.

      JA helps being young and attractive, and her ‘Let’s do this’ material is good, but the rest of the Labour stuff is miles behind the National Party machine in terms of look and volume.

      • ianmac 23.1.1

        The volume is huge from National thanks to their huge coffers. But pretty bland and forgetful trying not to be biased.

  23. Muttonbird 24

    Great work by Ardern to blunt the whinging and polluting farmers efforts to protest against cleaning up the waterways they’ve destroyed.


  24. The Chairman 25

    On Saturday Ms Turei was back on the campaign trail, speaking to a crowd in Otara.

    TV3 reported it as her first public speech since standing down as Greens co-leader, which was incorrect.


    This (the link below) was.

    Turei will not be silenced on poverty

    Nevertheless, have a look at the clip on the TV3 report. At around 1:40 into the clip you’ll see Turei attempting to hide and avoid the media.

    If she is going to publicly make a stand against poverty she needs to utilize the media, not hide away from them.

    • weka 25.1

      Good for her. The MSM are an utter disgrace in terms of welfare reporting this year and what happened, they have no automatic rights of access to anyone at a welfare rally, they will have to earn their access back.

      When I heard yesterday that Turei refused to speak to media I was reminded of Tariana Turia who for a long time after the Māori Party was set up refused to speak to the MSM and instead spoke to Māori media. It was very obvious why, at that time the MSM were both useless and racist at covering Māori issue and politics and preferred to focus on drama and sensationalising stories at the expense of real people. So it is with welfare. When the MSM understand that Turei’s family aren’t the story but the problems with how the State runs welfare is the story, then they might get some respect.

      One of the things about consistently and long term speaking truth to power is that you learn what real power is. There are more important things at play here than those reporters and Turei has her values straight on this one.

      • The Chairman 25.1.1

        “When the MSM understand that Turei’s family aren’t the story but the problems with how the State runs welfare is the story, then they might get some respect.”

        And they way for them to understand that is for Turei to front up and take control of the narrative.

        • weka

          She is fronting up and taking control of the narrative. The MSM aren’t the centre of that and as I said, they will need to earn trust.

          • The Chairman

            She requires a far wider reach than 200 or so in a mall if she wants to get the word out there, build momentum and support.

            And for that she requires to utilize the media.

            It’s not a good look when your spokesperson is seen hiding from the media.

            Just stop and think of the perception that creates.

            • Carolyn_nth

              It’s an important location. Many passing by saw the GP and their main message.

              It’s not about numbers at one rally. it’s about engaging with local people, and campaigning alongside those doing it tough.

              And how are the campaigners going to connect with the wider society about this if the MSM don’t report the events and experiences accurately? Rather than focusing on sensationalist beat-ups?

              • Within Te Tai Tonga Metiria has been very active and vocal and constantly getting the message out there. I can’t imagine anyone not knowing what she stands for.

                • Carolyn_nth

                  That’s good. It probably also means many who have already seen and heard her, or talked to her didn’t feel a need to go to another meeting with her.

                  • I’m really hopeful she will get lots of personal votes to reinforce the support she has for what has happened. I’m proud to vote for her and party vote Green too ☺

                • The Chairman

                  It’s not so much they don’t know what she stands for, Marty, it’s about getting more to stand with her.

                  • Umm yeah that is obvious

                    • The Chairman

                      Yes, but childishly hiding from the media isn’t going to help win-over potential supporters. 

                    • Nah nah nah nah nah nah nahhhh give it up, baby give it up…

                    • Carolyn_nth

                      The media spins coverage of Turei with a strong veneer of smear and loathing.

                      Turei IS controlling the narrative by cutting out the distorting MSM lens, and talking directly with the people – the ones whose voices rarely get heard in the MSM. It’s their voices Turei wants to be heard. Too much focus on her distracts from that. that’s how you build a movement from the flax roots up.

                      The MSM only tends to allow a certain narrow range of narratives – stray too far from it and the person or group gets vilified.

                      It’s debatable how much Ardern, in contrast, has “controlled the narrative”. Seems to me she has succumbed to the MSM’s narrow range of acceptable narratives by caving on CGT before it goes to the tax working group.

                      It also looks to me that MSM journos tend to respond positively to politicians that move in similar worlds to them – John Key and Ardern probably fit more with their world views and life experiences. Turei not so much.

                      It’s telling that the most positive coverage Turei has had is from the Maori media.

                      The MSM clearly do not want to give too much coverage to the voices of those struggling on low incomes, especially if they are brown – they want more drama of attacks on Turei and “benefit fraud” on their front pages, along with the continued celebration of celebrity culture.

                      There were devastating stories at the Otara rally, very accessible to mainstream coverage, but the journos present were not interested. Shame on them!

                    • The Chairman


                      Ardern has shown (as opposed to Little who was largely pushing the same barrel) how a sharp, good speaker can have better control of the narrative.

                      Of course they will push back, but it’s up to her to shut them down and push through her agenda. If she can’t or is unwilling to do that, then perhaps she isn’t the one for this role?

                      As for Ardern caving, she was listening to the public. It was the drop in the poll indicating she was failing to keep the public on board that she responded too.

                  • tracey

                    I am not clear why this is so important to you? You clearly do not support Green. Your constant holding of Labour to different scrutiny than National is puzzling.

                    Turei is not hiding. She is very visible in the South.

                    Your faux concern is wierd.

                • tracey


              • The Chairman

                Those doing it tough are already on her side, hence she requires a wider reach.

                “And how are the campaigners going to connect with the wider society about this if the MSM don’t report the events and experiences accurately?”

                Again, it comes back to controlling the narrative. Jacinda has shown how it can be done and Little has shown what not to do.

        • Psycho Milt

          And they way for them to understand that is for Turei to front up and take control of the narrative.

          It’s pretty rare to find such a combination of arrogance, self-regard and lack of insight rolled up into one package.

          • The Chairman

            I see we have another that wants to play the man and not the ball.

            Make your case or save it.

        • tracey

          The media determine the narrative so she has chosen to ignore them and speak directly to the people. Quel horreur!

      • marty mars 25.1.2

        Yes very good on her – i like how she is taking control. Whatever happens this election for her she has undergone a trial by fire and she is more effective now and had increased her mana which will help her whatever she does

        Edit snap ☺.

    • Carolyn_nth 25.2

      It’s also interesting how the MSM journos are happy still to pursue Turei, rather than give mainstream news space to the stories told by many at the rally, who are on the front line of the struggle against poverty . Those stories were the main focus of the rally, and took up most of the time. Turei was the speaker that introduced it. Davidson spoke at the close of the rally, speaking rousingly of continuing the struggle against poverty.

      I should imagine Turei also didn’t want to encourage the filtering of the poverty message by focusing too much on her.

      After being at that rally, and hearing some of the harrowing stories told, I am disgusted at the way the realities are being filtered by the MSM. Their reporting was mainly about Turei and Robyn Malcolm. Turei was there to support Davidson’s campaign against poverty and the other speakers from the front line.

      Why aren’t the mainstream media telling of the realities of those doing it tough in Sth Auckland? they were there. they must have heard!

      Why aren’t they reporting the support the GP has there?

      TV3 & Gower were vicious in the way they pursued Turei to resign, focusing on her being a “benefit fraudster” – rather than the way she was connecting with people who are still being treated punitively by W&I, the MSM, and via them, society at large.

    • tracey 25.3

      She never left the campaign trail the media just lost interest after they cleaned their knives. I listened to her in Christchurch a few weeks ago and it was very public. It is not IF she is going to make a stand, she did make a stand.

      Now Todd Barclay, there is a hider, with English as an accomplice.

      No media chasing down Key, McCully, English and Joyce over the Saudi 11.5m lie.

      • The Chairman 25.3.1

        “It is not IF she is going to make a stand, she did make a stand.”

        Yes, but she didn’t stand up and fight. She took of from the media.

        And it wasn’t a good look.

        A number of right-wingers I know are now using it to confirm their bias – i.e. they’re now saying I told you she had something to hide, believing that’s why she ran away.

        The sad thing was, she could have won them over if she held her ground and stood tall.

        • marty mars

          Lol you are great comedy mate

          • The Chairman

            The beneficiaries I know don’t think it is a joke. They want to know why she isn’t standing up and taking the fight to them? They respect what she is doing, but are doubting she is cut out for it.

            So while you may find it’s all a big game and joke, they’re in despair.

        • Union city greens

          The right wingers you know would have been won over by MT if she’d stood her ground. When you say the beneficiaries doubt she’s cut out for it. Comedy gold.

          • In Vino

            I had looked upon the chairman as a cause of derision rather than amusement. But yes – it could qualify as comedy.

  25. Pat 26

    Bill talking it up…..

    “English reckoned the public reaction was different from a couple of weeks ago.

    “That whole vibe has changed. Now they are coming up to us saying: ‘You have our support’. Even just two or three weeks ago they were standing back a bit. I could see it when they would come in. Now they have turned. They want the photos.”


  26. BM 27

    THe election is been decided on TV at the moment and it’s currently not looking good for labour.

    If the block houses don’t meet reserve people will be looking for scapegoats and the one who will be in the firing line will be labour.

    You guys are going to be pinned with the title of the “ones who killed the housing market”

    • Pat 27.1

      so you’re saying the crash has begun BM?

      • BM 27.1.1

        Yep, and it’s going to be pinned on Labour.

        • Pat

          you’re pointing to the Block is not as silly as it sounds…..the oddest things can trigger a run…..and as to blame, yep your probably right (certainly in some quarters will say and believe that) , but there will be no truth in it of course……all bubbles burst sooner or later….looks like John Key timed things rather well….resignation, house sale and election loss….the trifecta you could say.

        • TootingPopularFront

          Why will it be pinned on Labour when National have sat on their hands for the last 9 years in power? I think people will see this as a complete failure of Bill and his team of merry pranksters. Useful fuel for the last week of campaigning for Jacinda and her team I think.

    • marty mars 27.2

      Mate you keep running these ‘fear’ lines. Have you thought about having some holudays or something – hit the bush, go for a tramp. I can get why the fear is there and it plays havoc with the body and mind if it goes on too long.

    • AB 27.3

      Well it seems that they did make the reserve (so I’m told – I won’t watch Mark Richardson) and the ethnicity of the buyers was as anyone who lives in Auckland would have expected. Looks like a big win for Winston I’m afraid.

    • If the block houses don’t meet reserve people will be looking for scapegoats…

      They will! The kids will be heartbroken!

      And all the grown-ups will say: “But why are the kids crying?” And the kids will say: “Haven’t you heard? Rik is dead! The People’s Poet is dead!”

  27. eco maori 28

    To the ALL BLACKS. I did not want to write about you guys as some mite say that I’m just doing this to leverage off you guys. I no that I don’t need that leverage because we all ready have gone viral and I need to get this out to you guys all tho the coaches will have already told you guys .
    In my view some organization is running a smear campaign against The All Blacks they can not beat you on the field so some one is trying to stain the All Black Mana .
    So my message to the players is keep your guard up because these people play dirty and will use any opportunity to try and upset you guys Kia Kaha.

  28. JC 29

    Arrogance! (as usual)

    English calls it: ‘We’re going to win’


    “He claims National is five or six years into building roads, bridges, better schools and expanded health services. “We can keep doing that for 10 years.”

    ….”The 2002 debacle, when English as opposition leader took National to 21 percent on election day, obviously doesn’t count. Maybe, in English’s mind, it is undefeated as Prime Minister….. That legacy is on the line in five days…”

    Lets do this!!

  29. Union city greens 30

    Loving the Ardern uproar farmers protest headline on the herald.
    Only better thing than seeing Winston booed, is the prospect of those backbone of the nation types having to get up at 5.30am to pollute the environment on Sunday morning, knowing they’re doing it for the next 6 years (at least) under a government that won’t back down under the money might they’ve been throwing around for a generation.

    Red sky at night, The people’s delight.
    Green/Red in morning, rich prick environmental disasters a mourning. Sky lol

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