National pushing through with secret TPP talks before the election

23 comments on “National pushing through with secret TPP talks before the election ”

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1. dv 1

   17 September 2017 at 7:42 am

   Wont any deal need to be approved by parliament?
   • Gristle 1.1

     17 September 2017 at 7:54 am

     Whilst the National Government is trying to set the TPPA 11 framework in stone, to sign up to it would require a document that all other governments are also willing to sign up to. Is this document ready for signing?
     • lprent 1.1.1

       17 September 2017 at 8:00 am

       Probadly. It is the existing document, entertainment with some US specific sections removed.
   • lprent 1.2

     17 September 2017 at 7:58 am

     No. That is the Nats favourite lie about it. It is just Bullshit

     Like all treaties it is approved and ratified by the Executive council whobare essentially appointed by the government and brought into law by the governor general on behalf of the monarchy.

     By convention a select committee of parliament may see it and discuss it – but may not change it.

     Parliament will be presented with some enabling legislation where statute requires amendment. But in most cases with trade agreements very little is required. It can usually be done with regulation as orders in council.

     Removing this daft system is the best reason I know of for removing the monarchy from New Zealand.
2. Janet 2

   17 September 2017 at 7:55 am

   Where will Todd Barclay be?
   • lprent 2.1

     17 September 2017 at 8:01 am

     Huh?

     Todd Mclay possibly?
     • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1

       17 September 2017 at 10:56 am

       Todd Barclay heads to London for work

       Actually, this is OT – I was thinking I was still in OM which this probably needs to be moved to.
3. tracey 3

   17 September 2017 at 8:37 am

   If Canada is still there then the investor dispute provisions remain a problem. The North Americans, which includes Canada, have the most litigious corps when it comes to suing governments.
   • Andre 3.1

     17 September 2017 at 8:55 am

     The entire ISDS concept and framework that was in the TPPA is a problem, regardless of which countries are a part of an agreement and how litigious their cultures may be.

     IIRC, the europeans recognised this when the were negotiating something similar to the TPPA and came up with a proposal for a dispute settlement process that looked much fairer and more robust than the ISDS in the likes of the TPPA and NAFTA.
     • tracey 3.1.1

       17 September 2017 at 3:53 pm

       Well Andre there are similar provisions to resolve disputes in trade agreements we are in and the difference is the Corps of those countries do not have a litigious history against govts.
       • Andre 3.1.1.1

         17 September 2017 at 4:24 pm

         So the bastards haven’t learned to use the provisions. Yet. That’s no reason to continue using a really crap set of provisions for dispute resolution that’s tilted way over to international corporates against the state. Particularly if a much fairer alternative framework is possible.
         • tracey 3.1.1.1.1

           17 September 2017 at 4:30 pm

           I am not in favour of the TPP but rely on facts to make your argument. We have been in some trade agreements for decades and not been sued. It is not about them not learning the provisions, that is patronising.
           • Andre 3.1.1.1.1.1

             17 September 2017 at 4:48 pm

             There’s plenty of examples of non-US corporates suing vulnerable countries using ISDS mechanisms. Just a few of them touched on here:

             https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/10/obscure-legal-system-lets-corportations-sue-states-ttip-icsid

             Canadians don’t really qualify as an excessively litigious people, but TransCanada sued the US for 15 billion over cancelling the Keystone pipeline.

             http://time.com/4170966/keystone-pipeline-canada-lawsuit/

             In light of those examples, you want to try making the argument that ISDS provisions as currently enacted are a good thing and similar provisions should be used in future agreements?
4. tc 4

   17 September 2017 at 9:31 am

   Add it to the list of deals not great for nz, TPPA is a giant steaming pile of corporate control and profit protection on an unlevel field of litigious activity favouring corporate over sovereign rights.

   Once they’re gone from office there will be others they’ve gamed the OIA to hide which involve crony mates and backers where taxpayers are the biggest loser again.
5. Grantoc 5

   17 September 2017 at 9:58 am

   Sounds like an anti trade conspiracy theory from Coates and the Greens.

   The talks are not secret. The talks are not final decision making talks. Any decisions need to be ratified by governments.
   • AsleepWhileWalking 5.1

     17 September 2017 at 10:24 am

     See 1.2
   • One Anonymous Bloke 5.2

     17 September 2017 at 2:50 pm

     In its current form, the TPP is a restraint of trade agreement. You are incapable of grasping this. You certainly have no clue about ratification.
   • tracey 5.3

     17 September 2017 at 3:54 pm

     You are wrong. Parliament does not vote on this.
6. Incognito 6

   17 September 2017 at 10:44 am

   IIRC there seems to be paragraph on this in the Cabinet Manual, a book so rare that no National Minister has ever seen it let alone read it. They also think that Ethics-101: A Space Oddity is the best SF movie ever made although they’ve never seen it either.
   • Draco T Bastard 6.1

     17 September 2017 at 10:58 am

     +111

     😈
   • cleangreen 6.2

     17 September 2017 at 11:52 am

     Yep Incognito Ethics is not in the National Party parliamentary operating manual so we need to remove them forthwith, so we can take back our democracy again and allow our new government to plan the real path to a “brighter future” 9 yrs after we were promised it , now without any ‘fear or favour’.
   • tracey 6.3

     17 September 2017 at 3:55 pm

     Not many PM in NZ enforce the standards required by the Cabinet Manual.
7. WILD KATIPO 7

   18 September 2017 at 2:11 am

   … ” But there is no accountability from the government on New Zealand’s position ” …

   OHO , WHAT THE FUCK IS ALL THIS ABOUT ?

   Another snide way to ram through asset sales in a round about way whereby assets sales are sidelined in order to procure even greater globalist ambitions?

   … ” It is customary practice that governments should try to avoid taking pre-emptive decisions just before an election, particularly those that bind the decisions of the incoming government” …

   EXCEPT IN THIS CASE THESE FUCKERS ARE TRYING TO CIRCUMVENT THE ITDS PROCESS.

   … ” The US itself last week signalled that it is looking to remove ISDS from its renegotiation of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) through the creation of an opt-in clause ” …

   OHO AGAIN !, … SO IN OTHER WORDS CERTAIN WITHIN THE ANTI TRUMP MOVEMENT ARE SEEKING TO USE THIS TO UNDERMINE TRUMPS ANTI TTPA STANCE….

   … ” The Greens have submitted an OIA calling for the government to release its position on negotiations before the election. But there is no accountability from the government on New Zealand’s position. This matters because decisions taken at the meeting will be difficult if not impossible to reverse.” …

   OHO ! A THIRD TIME , … BECAUSE NOT ONLY DOES THIS GOVT WANT TO SQUASH THE GREENS , … IT WANTS TO SQUASH ALL ‘ NATIONALISTIC’ POLICY’S AS WELL …. AS THE GLOBALISTS HAVE WANTED TO SQUASH THE WORLDWIDE GREEN MOVEMENT EG : HERBAL MEDICINES….AKA THE FDA….

   … ” Around the time of an election, there is an added responsibility for the government to act in the broader interest of New Zealand, not in the interests of a single political party or the US.

   This continues government’s desperation to see a TPPA at any cost ” ….

   …………………………………………………………….

   OK Weka,… caps lock off.

   Just so I don’t get the ‘ MOD ‘ treatment of cultured etiquette of the nouveau enlightened in the age of ‘ IT ‘ , – of what is considered shouting and detrimental to polite dinner-table conversation…

   But its there for a reason , … and part of that reason is to ram home the point to so many casual political observers how shit arsed sly and corrupt these National party Mont Pelerin Society led , New Zealand Initiative suck up scumbags really are.

   Its a joke.

   A cosmic ( almost ) Monty Pythonesque , Doug Adams type joke played on the likes of you and me.

   The New Zealand public.

   That get away with this sort of juvenile witchypoo Cern type ceremony openings in broad daylight that is taken extremely seriously by easily led and even more easily bribed besuited officials and globalist potentates knowing full well that the the vast bulk of humanity is far too indulged in making ends meet to pay the man than to pay attention to these puerile and orgasmic Satanic old boys networks rituals and the displays of what the world elite have planned for us … that of the unfettered ejaculation of total control and dominion followed by a long and contented sleep after a warm and lovingly administered lower region wash….

   Full Bizarre, Demonic Gotthard Tunnel Opening Ceremony … – YouTube
   you tube▶ 59:35
   

   …………………………………………………………..

   And doesn’t it strike you all as extremely strange that the arch hero in all of this is Barry Coates ,… a humble Green party politician who’s only claim to fame in all this is a call for total sanity , – amidst the pre puberty and hormonal erectile infatuation of the National party globalists who are in need of an urgent and desperate release of their vital energy’s in a place where there are no witnesses ???

   … “The fact the Government are trying to get this deal over the line right before the election without talking to Opposition parties about it, isn’t transparent, and looks like they’re trying to get it into place before they are voted out,’ said Green Party trade spokesperson Barry Coates ” ….
   ………………………………………………………….
   … ” However the current Minister for Trade, Todd McClay has ignored customary practice, even though the Green Party, Labour, NZ First and the Maori Party have all made it clear that they have concerns over TPP-11 ” …
   ………………………………………………………….

   The urgency for release is self evident.

   And despite the lack of tissues to clean up the mess after the act.

   … ” This is an existing provision in the Free Trade Agreement with Korea, and is proposed for inclusion in TPP-11. Despite a clear signal from Labour and the Greens that a ban on non-resident purchases would be part of a future policy, the government did not register an exception ” …

   And so here we have at last , …the elder and much wiser sibling ,… gently and lovingly guiding the new freshly hormone charged prepubescent National party and giving sage advice on temperance and democracy and abstinence and all for the greater good… and yet , … It remains to be seen if aspects of the National party can ever be trusted to ever control their juvenile impulses long enough to admit that yes, … temperance , and indeed democratic processes, are indeed preferable to the giving in to the instant gratification and self interest of the immediate moment.

   Oh ,… and in case you might have been wondering ?… have a wee listen to this , then.

   #13 – Georgia Guide Stones – Episode 13 – YouTube
   georgia guidestones l a marzulli youtube▶ 28:27
   

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