Open mike 18/02/2021

45 comments on “Open mike 18/02/2021 ”

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1. Adrian Thornton 1

   18 February 2021 at 7:19 am

   Here is a very interesting short Joe Biden Interview from 2015.not much has changed…
   • Siobhan 1.1

     18 February 2021 at 11:01 am

     Nice to see Biden continuing the Trump tradition of outright lying about covid…

     "Biden’s response to a mother attending with her eight-year-old daughter, who asked Biden when her children — who “often ask if they will catch COVID, and if they do, will they die” — would be vaccinated.

     “First of all, kids don’t get … COVID very often, it’s unusual for that to happen,” Biden told the little girl. “Number two, you’re not likely to be able to be exposed to something and spread it to mommy and daddy, and it’s not likely mommy and daddy are able to spread it to you.”

     “I wouldn’t worry about it baby,” Biden assured her."

     Though, of course, when Biden lies and spreads #fakenews its called 'Empathy'..one of the "tools in the tool box' the liberals and centrists wheel out at as their get out of jail free cards…
     • In Vino 1.1.1

       18 February 2021 at 11:03 pm

       Biden sounds here nearly as ignorant and as much a wishful thinker as Trump.
       • McFlock 1.1.1.1

         18 February 2021 at 11:21 pm

         Yeah, the poor delusional bastard is obviously equally ignorant about defense policy, because he told some other kid that Santa would be able to fly across the border to deliver presents. /sarc

         Seriously, talking to a kid is not the same as telling the white house press corps shit about injecting bleach or whatever.
2. Incognito 2

   18 February 2021 at 7:19 am

   In the end, language is about power and the exercise of it.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/124265465/political-leaders-language-seeks-to-manipulate-us

   No, it isn’t.

   The Force is strong with this family.
3. Incognito 3

   18 February 2021 at 7:46 am

   Good piece by Jess Berentson-Shaw.

   https://www.newsroom.co.nz/scared-shouting-and-standing-in-the-way

   In other words:

   Feel their fear and do it anyway!
4. Forget now 4

   18 February 2021 at 9:22 am

   I think it's being; taken for a ride, that NZ nurses want to stop, rather than start. The sense that the NZNO is not organizing for the benefit of NZ nurses is not lessened by their apparent disdain for their members:

   "Given that in last year, we've had a CEO, two presidents, one vice president and three board members resign is a sign, a clear indication that something is not right within the governance group."

   Board members had agreed the review would be a chance to counter the misinformation and negative comments.

   Kaiwhakahaere or Māori co-president Kerri Nuku, who was chairing the meeting, said she was "looking forward to the review" and wanted "the facts to speak for themselves" as she believed that the way the board had behaved had "not been anything but reputable".

   However, after receiving the report in December the board then decided to restrict who could read it, making it available to only those former board members who had participated in it..

   Governance committee chair Andrew Cunningham conceded the board has had "some failings" over the last two years but was disappointed at the members' demands to see the entire report.

   "We're at this point where we're in this state of flux and we have such awesome potential to actually flip it and go into something that's really cool.

   "And we're just about there and then people are doing this, which is really disappointing.

   "I'm just disappointed that they don't want to come along for the ride."

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/436641/call-for-nurses-organisation-to-release-review-into-board-s-performance
   • Gabby 4.1

     18 February 2021 at 8:02 pm

     Darned if I know why Andrew should be 'disappointed'.
5. alwyn 5

   18 February 2021 at 9:24 am

   The Herald will be getting a rap over the knuckles this morning. The Ninth floor of the Beehive is not amused. How dare they publish an article giving the views of Auckland Medical School Professor Dr Gorman on the lockdown and the Government's actions?

   Dr Gorman is, unfortunately, rather naive in his views, at least in my opinion. He seems to think the Government's activities were solely for the alleviation of risk from the Covid 19 cases. In my view they were intended to distract people's attention from the continued shambles that is their Housing policy. Get people to stop talking about the Government's failures and back to applauding St Jacinda for saving tens of thousands of lives is the meme of the day.

   When Dr Gorman says "For example, the Ministry of Health on Saturday night decided not to tell the Government for 12 hours – for 12 hours, according to the Prime Minister – that there was an outbreak, which meant that any opportunity she had to shut down the Big Gay Out and America's Cup [on Sunday] had gone." he demonstrates his confusion. The aim of the delay seems to be intended to avoid the shutting down of The Big Gay Out. That was a major interest of a significant proportion of the devoted Jacinda worshippers and they were not to be inconvenienced.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-auckland-out-of-lockdown-jacinda-ardern-sounds-warning-professor-des-gorman-criticises-alert-level-response/KFA6K7SS55MHX4BONF33FUVBSM/

   Stuff on the other hand may be getting a gold star stuck on their editor's forehead. They have gone with policy and published a fawning column by Thomas Coughland. We no longer have a gold, or even a platinum system of tracing. We now have "the “Ferrari” of international Covid plans".

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300233040/covid19-contact-tracing-ferrari-will-be-enough-to-contain-future-outbreaks

   Get with the story Herald. Follow the example of Stuff and get with the flow. After all, you do want some of the latest $55 million slush fund don't you?
   • Muttonbird 5.1

     18 February 2021 at 9:30 am

     The MoH and Jacinda Ardern's governments have done a fantastic job on Covid-19 response. We are the envy of the world for both health and economy outcomes. Our economy is not only performing better than every one else's but better than we expected too.

     Why wouldn't you trust what they are doing?

     I'll tell you why, because of bitterness and crazy paranoia. There are not good attributes to have when discussing the effectiveness of this country’s Covid-19 response.

     Are you, for instance, claiming the MoH deliberately put the country at risk because it is full of gay people who vote Labour and wanted to go to the Big Gay Out???

     It seems that way.
     • alwyn 5.1.1

       18 February 2021 at 9:40 am

       Well. After reading the first paragraph of what you have written I see that that there will be a gold star for you in the mail within a week or two. You are certainly 100% behind the Government line.

       Now, what is going to be done about the housing crisis?
       • Muttonbird 5.1.1.1

         18 February 2021 at 9:48 am

         But you don't want anything done about the housing crisis otherwise you wouldn't rail so hard against measures such as a CGT, wealth tax, or land tax.

         You are quite happy for the problem to continue because I suspect you personally benefit from it and it provide a stick with which to beat Jacinda Ardern with.

         Come back to me when you've shown some broad compassion for those less fortunate. I won't hold my breath.
         • alwyn 5.1.1.1.1

           18 February 2021 at 10:17 am

           It is a bit off topic but I will very briefly note that I am opposed to all 3 of the policies you mention because the proposals to implement them all propose to do so while excluding the family home. That makes things much worse, not better.

           However I will not discuss it here further as the point of my comment was to do with our Covid 19 reactions and erratic Government policy.
           • arkie 5.1.1.1.1.1

             18 February 2021 at 10:25 am

             That makes things much worse, not better

             Why?

             I will not discuss it here further

             Why? This is Open Mike.
             • alwyn …

               18 February 2021 at 10:36 am

               I have commented previously on the effects of capital gains taxes on house prices in other economies which have a CGT environment, and in particular in the Australian situation. Right now I am interested in our Covid 19 policies. If you want to see what I have said on the other subject I am sure you will be able to find my comments on this site.
               • arkie …

                 18 February 2021 at 10:41 am

                 Nah. Why does exempting the family home make things much worse?

                 Simple question.
               • Drowsy M. Kram …

                 18 February 2021 at 10:53 am

                 Right now I am interested in our Covid 19 policies.

                 The outcomes of those policies have made NZ the envy of world.

                 New Zealand enjoying life we can only envy from afar

                 It can feel like looking at another planet, rather than a country on the other side of the world. New Zealand is currently enjoying a life we can only eye enviously from afar – from spectator-filled rugby stadiums to New Year's celebrations.

                 The country has become something of a poster child for its handling of the Covid epidemic.

                 And yet some still doggedly insist it's a shambles

                 We don't know how lucky we are…
                 • shanreagh …

                   18 February 2021 at 7:08 pm

                   I like this version of the Fred Dagg classic with the old timey NZers and places…..
                 • shanreagh …

                   18 February 2021 at 7:21 pm

                   And yet some still doggedly insist it's a shambles

                   I think it has something to do with following the statements of the leader of your favourite political party rather than looking at the actions for what they are/were and what they achieved.

                   I note that with the latest outbreak in the community the viruses that accompanied the last outbreak have also reappeared:

                   the 'Moaning Minnie' virus

                   and

                   the 'Grumble/grouch' virus

                   These are subtly different viruses much the same as the UK Covid-19 variant is different to the original one.

                   I can still recall my shock at the National Party (Simon Bridges) standing up in Parliament not to say…'we stand united and want to help and support the plans for meeting this unknown enemy' but to treat it as some sort of party political happening. I actually expected him to cross the floor of the house to stand next to the PM.

                   I don't think my standards are too high, I do think that ethical & moral standards in NP have slipped mightily.
               • Muttonbird …

                 18 February 2021 at 8:54 pm

                 Right now I am interested in our Covid 19 policies.

                 So why did you bring up housing?

                 Your second paragraph @5 was specifically devoted to the bizarre theory the government is using Covid-19 to distract from and cover up the housing crisis? And I suspect that was your motivation for the entire comment.

                 That's Advance NZ territory right there.
   • Pat 5.2

     18 February 2021 at 9:47 am

     "In my view they were intended to distract people's attention from the continued shambles that is their Housing policy."

     I suspect it had more to do with the pressure coming from the hospo industry in Auckland and SMEs….they erred on the side of employment on this occasion which some will not agree with but they obviously think the processes are sufficient to contain it.
     • Sabine 5.2.1

       18 February 2021 at 9:59 am

       Well or they could send money to all these employers and sme's – money that is not linked to some staff, but rather to be used to pay the rent/overheads for the time of the shut down, but they did not.

       No, we get a bullshit lockdown for a few days , and then we get a bullshit loosening of the lockdown, and then we get another bullshit shutdown for a few days, and rinse repeat. But its all good for those that can work remotely or work for government – money for nothing and – all gendered people for free.

       If 3 cases are enough to warrant a lockdown 3 for the largest city in the country then surely 5 cases should be enough to warrant the continuation of the lockdown until they are sure no more cases are coming up. Everything else is shambles and a container load of horse manure that goes to waste in the gilded halls of the government.
       • Drowsy M. Kram 5.2.1.1

         18 February 2021 at 10:29 am

         Shambles? For all that Covid bullshit ("bullshit lockdown"; "bullshit loosening of the lockdown"; "another bullshit lockdown"), NZ could be doing much worse. They must be drowning in bullshit in the US and Europe – not a nice way to go imho.

         Ashli Babbitt, who got herself killed while battering the doors of the House of Representatives, had previously tweeted that coronavirus curfews were “commie bullshit”.
         https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/jan/18/america-in-retreat-by-michael-pembroke-review-grisly-history-of-a-bully-boy-nation
         • Sabine 5.2.1.1.1

           18 February 2021 at 10:43 am

           this last lookdown was warranted. Firstly, and imo it should go and stay until and unless it is clear that there is no more community transmission

           yesterday we were told taht there were two more cases. And we were also told its ok to go back to normal.

           So yeah, this lockdown was bullshit – made so by the governments idiocy in going back to level 1 as if all is normal also Yesterday.

           So either we need to go into lockdown anytime there is a community transmission / outbreak or not.

           Everything else is bullshit.

           Not sure what your comment about the secessionist in the US who got herself shot in the face while planning to shot someone else in the face but surely you saw something there…..
           • Incognito 5.2.1.1.1.1

             18 February 2021 at 10:59 am

             Yeah, life is BS and then you die.

             All lockdown decisions are a balancing act.

             If you don’t understand the reasoning and decision making of the latest one you haven’t been paying attention or you’re letting your beliefs cloud your thinking.
           • Drowsy M. Kram 5.2.1.1.1.2

             18 February 2021 at 10:59 am

             Everything else is bullshit.

             but surely you saw something there…..

             I was temporarily overwhelmed by all that "bullshit" – better now. All the best.
         • Sabine 5.2.1.1.2

           18 February 2021 at 10:57 am

           btw, we are not a commie country, we are captialism true and through.

           see Wekas post about kids being hungry every day, and their parents.

           And that too is due to goverments bullshittery, the current ones, the key ones, the clark ones the shipley ones etc.
     • Rosemary McDonald 5.2.2

       18 February 2021 at 10:35 am

       …the pressure coming from the hospo industry…

       Agreed. And since it has been an almost constant pressure from all areas of the hospo industry (including tworism) since this shit show kicked off you'd have thought the Government would have acquired a bit of immunity against it by now.

       Up North here there was no small surprise at the Level being lifted. We kinda assumed/hoped it would continue for at least another week. Not that we don't like Aucklanders or anything….
       • Sabine 5.2.2.1

         18 February 2021 at 10:49 am

         Not just hospo industry, dentists, doctors with planned surgeryes, people with planned surgeries in AKL, children going to school, people going to work, etc.

         NOT Everyone in this country is working remotely with enough resources to simply just stay home at the horrible noise of the mobile phone.

         As i said also, i don't want a wage subsidy – again a load of bullshit imo, but rather that the government helps people pay their bills when they are being in lockdown courtesy of the government.

         Maybe people need to understand that you can have government paid subsidies to keep people in lockdown when it is needed, or it can go the way of the US and not pay a dime to affected groups of people and then watch them go to work despite the risk to themselves, their families and others.

         And a year in this pandemic, i really had hoped that the government had wrapped its head around this particularity of people, that a. they don't like to be locked up, b. they need to earn money to pay for all that government sanctioned capitalism, and last but least, if they don't give people good enough reasons for a lockdown and financial aid for those that can't just stay at home, some day no one is going to listen to them, their little phone alarm, their preachy tv sessions of kindness and such and people will just go out to work, to their appointments because why not.

         I too would have liked this lockdown to last at least 14 – 16 days.

         but then, hey they can just send us back into lockdown tomorrow if they find a few more people with Covid. right?

         btw, if one is on Home D the government via Winz pays for all your living costs. So yeah, bullshit alright.
   • Incognito 5.3

     18 February 2021 at 9:49 am

     I always highly value your impartial opinion but today your radar seems a little off.

     The piece by Thomas Coughlan – you may want to pay a little more attention to the spelling of his name – is hardly fawning.

     If you had actually read the piece, which of course you had not, you would have known that neither Mr Coughlan nor Stuff had coined the term “Ferrari” in this context – writers hardly ever write their own headlines anyway.

     In fact, it was economist and modeller Rodney Jones who came up with the term.

     Please sharpen up.
     • alwyn 5.3.1

       18 February 2021 at 10:30 am

       "which of course you had not".

       You fascinate me. How do you think I found, and commented on this statement if I hadn't read the article? And I may not have attributed the comment to the person who first wrote it but the comment was in the article, and not only in the headline as you seem to be suggesting and certainly was, at least in my opinion, enthusiastically supported as being valid by the author of the piece.

       For your benefit it was in, and I quoted from, the third paragraph which says, in full,

       "The question for New Zealanders is whether Cabinet’s decision yesterday represents a new, more confident and possibly more cavalier evolution of the country's Covid-19 response, which one economist and modeller described as the “Ferrari” of international Covid plans."

       Did you read past the headline of the piece?
       • Incognito 5.3.1.1

         18 February 2021 at 7:47 pm

         IMHO, you’re too easily fascinated, see too much fawning, and fall for Ferrari headlines.

         I didn’t see the full quote in your beautifully crafted comment @ 5 because it wasn’t there, only the part-quote, which was selective and misleading to suit your narrative. It did not come with proper attribution either, which is another sign of being disingenuous and not commenting here in good faith. It wouldn’t be the first time for you, would it?

         Please sharpen up or ship out, thanks.
   • David 5.4

     18 February 2021 at 9:58 am

     I too heard the interview with Professor Gorman this morning. He builds a very compelling argument around the core premise of “what is our risk appetite”? This seems a very basic question to me and yet one I’m not sure we have a clear and consistent view on.

     He makes another valid point about the political theatre of alert level announcements. When it takes 15 minutes of preamble each time before you get to the key message, you know the whole thing is more designed to be a show than a public service announcement.
     • Incognito 5.4.1

       18 February 2021 at 10:06 am

       You misunderstand that much of the “show” is part of clear and effective communication to the whole NZ population. Key messages and reasoning need to be repeated every time. Not everyone is as ‘with it’ as Alwyn and you. I too sit there impatiently just waiting for the decision but I’m not the typical audience. I cannot stand watching & listening and go by the written Live Updates on Stuff. Mostly, I can’t be bothered and get on with things and don’t find out what’s been decided until somebody tells me many hours later.
6. georgecom 6

   18 February 2021 at 7:41 pm

   Anyone remember the Business Roundtable. The odious old boys club with their creep economic policies. The days of crony capitalism when the 1%ers had their cronies in positions of power. The self entitled BRT with their noses deep in the trough and pockets open expecting the state to shovel money into it. Government by the 1% for the 1%
   • Gosman 6.1

     18 February 2021 at 8:06 pm

     The Business Round Table was a think tank not an "old boys club". It still exists. It merged with another think tank about 10 years ago and renamed to the NZ Initiative. It still published really well researched papers on a variety of topics to help stimulate debate on policies.
     • In Vino 6.1.1

       18 February 2021 at 11:13 pm

       Ha ha. Still transparently right-wing to my mind.
       • Gosman 6.1.1.1

         19 February 2021 at 8:29 am

         Yes. Unashamedly so.
         • arkie 6.1.1.1.1

           19 February 2021 at 8:59 am

           That just demonstrates their lack of self-awareness. Ha.
           • Gosman 6.1.1.1.1.1

             19 February 2021 at 9:39 am

             Why? They are a right-wing think tank. That is not unusual. There are also left-wing think tanks. The point of them is to push out ideas to solve societies problems from a particular perspective. There is nothing sinister or underhand in that.
             • arkie …

               19 February 2021 at 9:43 am

               IT WAS A JOKE
     • georgecom 6.1.2

       20 February 2021 at 2:30 pm

       They should have been a "think again" tank Gosman. Sadly for NZ there was not much thinking in the enactment of their agenda. It was a one way swinging door, a totally porous membrane
   • mauī 6.2

     18 February 2021 at 8:45 pm

     The odiousity of the round table is well known.
     • Gosman 6.2.1

       19 February 2021 at 8:30 am

       In what way was or is it odious?
7. Eco Maori 7

   19 February 2021 at 12:40 pm

   The unjustified system of new zealand breaches Te Treaty of Waitangi in many ways. Times are changing but not fast enough to stop tangata whenua from being thrown out to the crap heap of the prison system that will unload many negative effects on their future there tamariki future and Mokopuna futures.

   Criminal Justice System: Why New Zealand’s Drug Laws Need to Change

   By Emilia Sullivan

   Māori, despite only making up 15% of the population, make up 52.8% of New Zealand’s prison population, with almost half being incarcerated for drug offences. In 2015, the (now former) Commissioner of Police Mike Bush acknowledged that New Zealand police have an ‘unconscious bias’ toward Māori. Five years on, things have not changed. Māori are still disproportionately represented in the prison system, with a large portion of these being non-violent drug offences. Something has clearly gone wrong in our justice system’s approach to reducing harm caused by drugs, and it needs to be rectified by Māori, for Māori.

   Ka kite Ano

   Link below

   https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.equaljusticeproject.co.nz/articles/mori-and-the-criminal-justice-system-why-new-zealands-drug-laws-need-to-change2020%3fformat=amp

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