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Open mike 18/03/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 18th, 2016 - 144 comments
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144 comments on “Open mike 18/03/2016 ”

  1. Kiev 1

    What ever happened to the Ingham Twins ?

    [lprent:if you want to ask a question, the provide some context of its relevance to the post. Moved to OpenMike as being apparently off topic. ]

  2. Dale 2

    It doesn’t matter what kiwi Muslim women do.
    If they want to go and marrie a jihadist from ISIS fine.
    According to the left Isis ain’t so bad. It’s those fuckin Jews, their the real problem.

    [lprent: your personal bigotry isn’t the subject of the post. Moved to OpenMike. ]

    • In Vino 2.1

      Dale – you need to get your brother Chip to check out what you have written before you send it in.

    • Colonial Viper 2.2

      Israel helped to fund, arm and start up Hamas.

    • weka 2.3

      Has Lynn had a personality transplant or someone’s hijacked his account? (joke! I’m sure he’s just busy).

      • lprent 2.3.1

        Very busy. Customer demo tomorrow (apparently Easter Friday is not a holiday in Italy) and it has been interesting getting the site set up for it in our first week.

        Acceptance is in about 2 more weeks and runs for two weeks. But if it goes well then our clients may allow me home early.

        Doing my part to build an export economy outside of the extraction industry sector of farming, forestry, and mining. Helps with employing people at higher wages.

        • alwyn 2.3.1.1

          “clients may allow me home early”
          Is that what the parole board class as time off for good behaviour?

    • adam 2.4

      How ironic of a Tory voter to utter this dribble…

    • grumpystilskin 2.5

      @ Dale.
      No, it’s the Zionists people have issues with.
      But then, I doubt you even know the difference.

    • aerobubble 2.6

      Firstly, they were living in Oz, radicalized in Oz.
      Second, running around pulling ones hair out due to the latest atrocity is what Isis wants.
      Take that idoit in norway, murders the kids of people like those he now wants to persuade, like they want anything to do with someone potentially scoping their kids.
      Fact is fascism is all about drongos fear, people who have no ability to think for themselves about how listening solely to their own cowardice may just be an error of judgement.
      Take Germany, Merkal has provided Germany a means to remove the stain, fill up Germany with a religious minority, and the stupid people vote for far right parties, like they need to be victims either way, be proud of their fears, stamp it on themselves as a strength, when we all know its just cowardice.
      Conservatoive dont do change this is why progressives win, the universe hates stagnation, God must loathes politucal conservatives to have set them up so.

    • Trey 2.7

      Their, there, they’re, learn to use the correct one please and marry not marrie. Please sort it out. It is one thing to come across as a bigot without coming across as stupid as well.

  3. Paul 3

    Top multinationals pay almost no tax in New Zealand
    No wonder they support our neo-liberal government so much.
    If they paid their taxes, I wonder what we could afford…………………….

    ‘If they paid their taxes,we could afford life-saving melanoma drugs.
    We could afford better buildings for schools which have been waiting years to have damp and crappy classrooms replaced.
    We could afford all the hip replacements, knee replacements, ear operations and a gazillion other medical procedures people need that they can’t get.
    We could afford to fund the kind of science and research that we desperately need to be doing if we’re ever going to lift our economy to where it could be.
    We could afford to properly fund social service agencies doing incredibly important work in our communities all over the country every single day. ‘

    (Nigel Latta’s recent Facebook post adapted on the Flag adapted)

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11607279
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11607336
    http://insights.nzherald.co.nz/article/nz-multinational-tax-gap

    • vto 3.1

      Maybe it is time not only to abandon tax on income, and to place the tax on wealth (capital), maybe it is also time to tax revenue instead of profit, when revenue passes certain measures ……..

      imagine then Vodafone with its $740,000,000 annual revenue but negligible ‘profit’ for tax purposes, will pay its share and stop being a bludger

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1

        It is time to change the tax system so that the bludgers* actually start paying tax.

        *Bludgers: The rich, shareholders, corporations

        • Paul 3.1.1.1

          And if transnational companies and wealthy individuals choose to withdraw from the societal contract by not paying their due, we should not regard them as decent parts of society.
          And be upfront about that.

          So when companies like Vodafone and people like Bill Gates make a bit fuss about their charity, we should tell them to pay their taxes instead and call them out as bludgers.

          Wonder if the taxpayers ‘union’ aka Farrar, Williams and the dp crew will call out these bludgers?

        • amirite 3.1.1.2

          +1,000

        • ianmac 3.1.1.3

          Bludger is one who lives on a big dole or sickness benefit using taxpayers money, so “they” say.
          “They” say however that big corporations are in NZ to invest in our growth and enhance our economy. So just because they pay less than1% in tax doesn’t make big companies like Apple bludgers. Does it???
          Key says we need them so must be true. Right?

          • Wayne 3.1.1.3.2

            It is not as simple as saying company Y sells product X in country Z for a profit therefore the profit should be taxed in country Z.
            For instance when Fonterra sells milk powder to importers in China, where is the profit made; in NZ or China? So far as Fonterra is concerned I would say that is a NZ sale and the profit should be taxed here.
            Having said that I would say a large percentage of the profits from Apple phones sold in New Zealand is actually made in New Zealand and should be taxed here. The phones will be bought into New Zealand at a CIF price. There will be profits made at the wholesale level and the retail level. And IRD needs to be rigorous in ensuring the CIF price is not artificially inflated.

            • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 3.1.1.3.2.1

              You don’t pay tax on revenue, dumb fuck. You pay it on profit, which is appropriate because that’s what you earn.

              • Wayne

                Why don’t you actually read the post before you start mouthing off. I explicitly used the word “profit” in my post. Given I used to teach tax law, the relevant concepts are not entirely unknown to me.

                • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                  Not talking to you, darling. I was addressing this:

                  Imagine then Vodafone with its $740,000,000 annual revenue but negligible ‘profit’ for tax purposes, will pay its share and stop being a bludger

                  Can vto sign up for you class?

                  • vto

                    wassa problem ??

                  • Colonial Viper

                    I think Gormless is making the point that even with $740M in sales per year Vodafone is too inefficient to make any real profit.

                    Seems like they should hand over their market share to someone who can make a serious profit and who can pay serious tax.

                    • alwyn

                      Aren’t you someone who wants the power companies in New Zealand to reduce their prices and to become, basically, non-profit organisations?

                • mac1

                  Wayne, a question for you as one who taught tax law, and also considering your former occupation. In your opinion what can/should be done about the tax evasion of $7.4 billion that is currently the case. Thanks.

                  http://www.victoria.ac.nz/research/expertise/business-commerce/fraud-sentencing

              • Stuart Munro

                Why shouldn’t you pay tax on revenue? Not doing so encourages all sorts of tax avoidance behaviours that do not benefit society at all.

                • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                  You shouldn’t pay tax on revenue because it would be extremely unfair and not relevant in any way to how much you earn.

                  • McFlock

                    But all my PAYE is taxed.

                    It’s an interesting question on a friday afternoon – why do companies pay only on what they haven’t pissed away, but individuals pay on revenue?

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                      All of your income is taxed at source, by your employer deducting the tax portion from your income. You claim allowable deductions in your income tax return.

                    • vto

                      Exactly

                    • McFlock

                      Yeah I know how income tax works.

                      But in the list of permissable deductables I can claim on, getting pissed isn’t on the list. But a company can have expenses like team building, entertainng clients, open bars at marketing or recruiting events, and so on.

                      So why isn’t gross revenue taxed at 1% or so, and then the companies claim back for deductable expenses?

                  • Stuart Munro

                    In the case of companies with no local manufacturing base competing with companies that do have one, they are not of equal benefit to NZ – some proportion of their revenue should be taxed. License to operate – and the obvious tool to control socipathic outfits like the Aussie banks and media.

                • tinfoilhat

                  I don’t teach economics or accounting, however, it’s fairly obvious to me why paying tax on revenue would be problematic to say the least.

                  • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                    I think it’s obvious to everyone except Stuart Munro.

                    • Stuart Munro

                      Things that are obvious to RWNJs are routinely questioned here.

                      Megacorporations like Samsung or Huawei are in principle capable of monopolising entire market sectors in NZ – if they do, they should pay something for market access.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    I wonder how much GST Vodafone pays on that $740M in sales…

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                      Once again, you pay GST on the difference between your input tax and your output tax. Sales are only half the picture.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      so fuck all, then.

                  • vto

                    paying tax on revenue would become like a fixed overhead, a bit like employment costs and very much like input costs…

                    if you aint comfortable your revenue is going to exceed your employment and input costs then you don’t make the sale

                    if you aint comfortable your revenue is going to exceed your employment and input and revenue tax costs then you don’t make the sale

                    as McFlock says the same above with Paye.

                    it is absolutely no different. Becomes another cost

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                      Completely different. If you are in a low margin business with high overheads, you will pay more tax than someone who is creaming it on low turnover.

                      It’s a really stupid idea. Which is why no-one at all is suggesting we adopt it.

                    • vto

                      Not quite. Business to business the change is the same, so no impact. The high margin businesses and low margin businesses do not compete e.g. jewellers don’t compete with supermarkets.

                      It needs some thinking….

                      It becomes an overhead to be factored in….

                      simple. prices and the like adjust around it so those low margin businesses still make a margin – this is how investment flows don’t you know. In a free market and all that. It does. level playing field.

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrel

                      Stupid idea. No one except you wants it. Because it’s both stupid and unfair.

                    • BM

                      For a man who supposedly runs a company which turns over 100 million a year, I find your ideas regarding tax surprising.

                      You’d be happy paying 30 million a year in tax?

                    • vto

                      Neither of you are thinking, or answering the technical points….

    • BM 3.2

      I agree multi nationals should pay a larger share.

      Having said that, $490 million is only around 1% of the current tax take.

      The analysis of financial information of more than 100 multinational corporations and their New Zealand subsidiaries showed that, had the New Zealand branches of these 20 firms reported profits at the same healthy rate as their parents, their combined income tax bill would have been nearly $490 million.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11607336

      • Colonial Viper 3.2.1

        MSD, Roche, Pfizer, Novartis, all live off the tax payers teat but refuse to give anything back to the country in taxes.

        Maybe Andrew Little should mention something about that to them next time they meet for dinner.

        • Puckish Rogue 3.2.1.1

          Have you considered standing as an independent in Dunedin South? You might do surprisingly well

          • te reo putake 3.2.1.1.1

            A bit cruel for this time of the morning, PR!

            • Puckish Rogue 3.2.1.1.1.1

              Well think of it like this, it’d liven up Dunedin South no end and it’d be interesting getting reports from someone on the election trail

              • Mike C

                @Puckish

                Are you trying to get rid of Clare?

                But she is such an extremely hard working highly respected MP.

                Isn’t she ???

              • lprent

                Candidates get limitations as authors. And MPs only get guest posts.

                It is one of the things that we have pretty strong rules about.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Fair enough

                • Roflcopter

                  So, if CV pre-loads all his articles for timed releases prior to becoming a candidate, then they show up during potential candidate timeframes, is that ok? 😀

                  Seriously, CV vs Curran would be an awesome spectacle…

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    I agree and it’d even bring the left and right together…so c’mon CV give the people what they want!

                    There could even be a tour of Emersons brewery, its a no-brainer CV announce your candidacy!

    • Jenny Kirk 3.3

      + 100%

    • unitedtribes 3.4

      So what did Labour do about the same multinationals. I do share your sentiment they should be made to pay up somehow. Its a world wide problem and some international progress is being made.

  4. amirite 4

    There’s a potential for a new building disaster of the leaky buildings syndrome magnitude – ‘One of the country’s biggest steel manufacturers has been selling critical earthquake-reinforcing mesh wrongly certified as having been tested by a top laboratory.
    In fact, all the strength testing of the mesh has been done in-house by Steel & Tube itself.’
    This is only a part of the wider problem of a lack of mandatory independent testing regime in the building industry. It always comes down to money.

    Interesting that this has been widely reported on Radio New Zealand, other media are not too interested to push the matter any further.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/299235/steel-mesh-tests-can't-be-trusted-lab

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/299144/questions-over-quake-mesh-certification

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/299186/legal-action-looms-over-steel-mesh-testing

    • Paul 4.1

      The other media is owned by large corporates.
      They are told to write stories about an English racing driver’s holiday in New Zealand and to promote reality TV shows.

    • saveNZ 4.2

      Yep, surprisingly when corporates are told profit is the most important thing, and there are few criminal consequences when they get it wrong, they pay peanuts to staff and we have a government that believes in zero regulation or self certifying, problems start to creep in.

      Not so long ago Firth found it’s concrete was not compliant. It was a computer glitch.

      The amount of costs and risks from having these sorts of problems are huge and long term.

    • TC 4.3

      Then theres dodgy labelling as we had a site that required all the steel sent again.

      Initial steel sent could be bent by hand and steelntubes response was to blame some poor sod in the yard for mislabelling it……yeah right

  5. Paul 5

    ‘This footage lays bare the facade of “consultation” by this government in its TPPA “roadshow”. You can see that under the chairmanship of bully Sean Plunket no protest, let alone real questioning is allowed.

    This is what it was always going to be – a total sham’

    Robert Westenra

    http://robinwestenra.blogspot.co.nz/2016/03/government-conultation-on-tppa.html?m=1

    Think it would be good to have a post on the ‘consultation’ process for the TPP.
    My, this government is so anti-democratic.
    But then, it’s no wonder., given its support for those bludging multinationals.
    Poor things. Not paying taxes is not enough.
    Now they want to write our laws.
    And Key is their hitman.

    • saveNZ 5.1

      +1 More like a joke show – yet another way to waste taxpayers money.

      Sign something and then pretend to consult later to a selected audience.

  6. Paul 6

    The British are also cursed with a government that puts the greed of tax dodging rich parasites and corporations above the basic needs of its people.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/budget-2016-one-simple-chart-that-shows-who-benefits-most-and-who-loses-out-a6936876.html

  7. James 7

    I loved the comment bigger the polls. Our internal ones are telling the true story.

    So every independ poll (another one out shortly) have been showing labour stuck in the high 20’s or low 30s for ever – but they are all bullshit.

    But labours which they keep secret (for obvious reasons) we have to believe are totally different and are showing labour doing way better. ? And that’s the truth brother, you better believe it.

    Typical labour. Ignore every other comment that you don’t agree with and listen to the one guy who happens to agree with you and cite him everywhere as the only credible source.

    Anyway Didn’t labours internal pollsters the other day say something about how low labour were polling ?

    When little talks of strong arming banks. Forcing them to link to ocr and show other signs of, well, madness he’s not gaining normal voters. He is heading further to the left and lessening his base.

    It’s funny to watch and I honestly think some of you are delusional.

    [lprent: moved to OpenMike as being off topic. And I forgot to note it earlier… ]

    • Thanks, James. The ‘bugger the polls’ comment was about National’s position, not Labour’s. I’m comfortable with Labour at 30+, as long as the Greens and NZ First make up the difference. That’s how MMP works. The ‘independent’ polls are very rarely correct, as comparing their results with actual election day voting shows. The Nats know they are barely on, or dropping below, the point at which they can form a Government. Because their support partners contribute very little in practical terms (3-5% and 4-5 MP’s) National require mid to high forties. The flag debacle has eroded that support, which is why we saw Key covering himself in the current flag at the golf the other day.

      • maui 7.1.1

        Do you reckon Key will flip-flop on the flag soon? Saying, just tricking no I really love our flag!

        • te reo putake 7.1.1.1

          I note that Key’s latest twitter images show him without the alternative flag lapel pin. Game over?

          • maui 7.1.1.1.1

            Next week he will be in Paul Henry’s NZ flag suit.

          • Lanthanide 7.1.1.1.2

            He’s wearing it at the event in Kaiapoi but not the one in Rangiora, which would have both been on the same day.

            Unclear why he’s not wearing it, but I’d put it down to ‘coincidence’ at this point rather than a deliberate move on his part.

        • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1.2

          What I reckon he’ll do is say something like:

          “We put the idea out there and NZ has spoken which shows just how strong democracy is in NZ so we’ll listen to the public and shelve the idea”

          and it’ll be spun in a way to show how National (and John Key) listens to the people of NZ and the people of NZ will feel chuffed that the government do actually listen

          National will be under the pump for a little but then someone from Labour will say something stupid and it’ll all be forgotten about

          I wouldn’t be surprised if it was from Andrew Little going on about Asians again or something…but then Trevor Mallards been a bit quiet lately

          • alwyn 7.1.1.2.1

            I think Trevor’s wife has got him well under control.
            If he does, or says, something totally stupid she gets the chance to rake him over the coals with a very large audience seeing it.
            Certainly seems to have quietened him down.

          • saveNZ 7.1.1.2.2

            Don’t you mean the MSM will say Labour said something stupid to distract from the constant stream of lies and burying bad news from the Natz.

            • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1.2.2.1

              Potato potata

              • alwyn

                As the lyrics of “let’s call the whole thing off put it”
                “You like potato and I like potahto
                You like tomato and I like tomahto
                Potato, potahto, Tomato, tomahto.
                Let’s call the whole thing off”

            • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.2.2.2

              +1

          • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.2.3

            What I reckon he’ll do is say something like:

            “We put the idea out there and NZ has spoken which shows just how strong democracy is in NZ so we’ll listen to the public and shelve the idea”

            In other words he’d lie again because if democracy was so strong in this country we wouldn’t have signed up for the TPPA, sold our assets or gone into war with the US.

      • Puckish Rogue 7.1.2

        I agree with most but I think its a mistake for the left (or right for that matter) to count Winston as part of the voting block

        also while looking just at the straight numbers means that’s polls aren’t accurate what you will find (in NZ anyway) is the gap between parties is generally spot on

        Its why John Key personally thanked David Farrar on election night

        • ianmac 7.1.2.1

          John Key thanked Farrar first on Election night because his constant secret polling paid for by the National Party, is used to guide Key in which are hot issues and which are not. Nothing to do with integrity of course.
          And nothing to do with the TV or Morgan Polls.

    • Sabine 7.2

      i honestly think you need coffee.
      it’s too early for all that ranting and raving.

    • Reality 7.3

      James, for one so opinionated and dismissive, I would have thought your spelling, punctuation and sentence construction could do with some self-analysis. Could be that what you had to say would be more credible then.

      • Reddelusion 7.3.1

        Every one hates a corrector and the self appointed grammar police Reality, did you not learn that at school, reeks of intellectual snobbery, deal with issue not that you one a spelling bee in 1986

    • Draco T Bastard 7.4

      But labours which they keep secret…

      So, you’ll be publishing National’s internal polls shortly I take it? I’m sure that Lprent would love to put them up on here if you need a hand with that.

  8. One Anonymous Bloke 8

    I hope the court makes the cops pay for Hager’s travel and accommodation expenses, just to rub salt in the wound.

    Fingers crossed for massive and punitive damages.

    • saveNZ 8.1

      @OAB +1

    • alwyn 8.2

      “Fingers crossed for massive and punitive damages”.
      Courts in New Zealand never pay out punitive damages, or even what the real costs are, do they?
      If they did I imagine that John Banks would be collecting millions?

      • veutoviper 8.2.1

        ”Courts in New Zealand never pay out punitive damages, or even what the real costs are, do they?”

        Yes they do. Banks was awarded costs of 66,200 dollars just ten days ago.

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11602110

        • pat 8.2.1.1

          costs are not punitive damages….and total (true) costs are not usually able to be claimed or awarded.

          ‘New Zealand case law on exemplary damages is otherwise derived from English law but is less restrictive regarding the circumstances in which an award may be made. Although less restrictive in approach than English law and practice, awards of exemplary damages are relatively small and New Zealand courts have shown a determination to keep them modest. The highest amount of exemplary damages awarded by a New Zealand court is NZ$85,000, although settlements for higher sums have occurred.”

          http://www.wilsonharle.com/new-zealand-legal-environment/

        • alwyn 8.2.1.2

          You did see this sentence, quoting Banks, in that Herald story.
          “He said it was not enough to cover all his legal costs”

  9. Chooky 9

    Why isnt Merkel asking questions about the the root causes of the Middle East and North Africa /Libya destabilisation and the refugee crisis? …Who is culpable?…Is it too embarrassing?

    Sure what a nice German for being so open to the huge influx of refugees ( poor Greece and other small countries though)…but really Germany and Europe must get to grips as to the root causes for this desperate human tragedy of people being ripped up from their homelands…otherwise they are in cahoots with USA and friends

    https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/335479-obama-doctrine-uk-destiny/

    “In this edition of the program we discuss whether there is such a thing as the Obama Doctrine – if there is, is this a good thing? And again Syria, the word ‘partition’ won’t go away.

    Also, is Russia REALLY trying to topple Angela Merkel and determine the UK’s destiny? And finally, why we are watching the South China Sea.

    CrossTalking with Mark Sleboda, Dmitry Babich, and Rory Suchet.”

  10. Rodel 10

    The flag. Just a thought.
    Mr English’s latest guess is $2.7 million to change flags, logos and lapels throughout New Zealand..I suspect that’s a misunderestimation- (apologies to George W)

    A vote for the existing flag may at least save this much which then could be used for something useful. Small change I know but…maybe a hip replacement or two.

    • Stuart Munro 11.1

      That’ll be the day – with Bill finally admitting to real wage shrinkage this morning on National radio the facade of National economic competence is collapsing like the dairy industry they put all their effort into.

      It would take real growth, not technical growth to redeem the do-nothing party’s economic reputation – and Bill hasn’t got a ghost of a clue how to produce that.

  11. joe90 12

    Kasich may be all that stands between Gaffney and a pogrom.

    Nate Silver Verified account
    ‏@NateSilver538

    Fairly strong possibility that Trump won’t get to 1237 delegates on his own but would with Kasich’s delegates. Come to your own conclusions.

    The first name on the advisory list that stands out is Frank Gaffney, a former Reagan administration Pentagon official who has emerged as a lightning rod in the Obama era, accused by the Southern Poverty Law Center of being one of the nation’s leading Islamophobes.

    When Trump proposed a temporary ban on all Muslim immigration, he quoted from a 2015 survey of American Muslims commissioned by the think tank Gaffney founded, the Center for Security Policy. It concluded that a quarter of U.S. Muslims supported violent jihad against the U.S. This led to speculation in the Washington press that Gaffney was advising Trump.

    But Gaffney is a Cruz man. In an interview, he said that he met Cruz when he was running for Senate in 2012, and that he has briefed him on the FBI’s investigation into a Muslim Brotherhood-linked charity known as the Holy Land Foundation and on how Sharia law is a threat to America. “I hope that some of that went into his decision to introduce legislation to designate the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization,” Gaffney said.

    http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-03-17/cruz-assembles-an-unlikely-team-of-foreign-policy-rivals

  12. The lost sheep 13

    World Happiness Report 2016 out.
    NZ 8th.
    Interesting new figures on inequality of happiness.

    Some people here out of touch much?

    http://worldhappiness.report/

    • Puckish Rogue 13.1

      Its probably a Tory funded tool of Cameron Slater 🙂

    • weka 13.2

      How about referencing the NZ bit?

    • One Two 13.3

      * Billions of human beings abused

      * Extinction rates greatest recorded history

      * Planet earth being tansformed into a hell hole

      Anyone happy about that is missing the point

      Flogging a bullshit survey like a trophy, asinine

  13. joe90 14

    This has the wingnuts twittering.

    NOAA Verified account
    ‏@NOAA

    JUST IN: February 2016 warmest on record for the globe per @NOAANCEIclimate http://1.usa.gov/1SPVZLh #StateOfClimate

    Steve Goddard ‏@SteveSGoddard 9h9 hours ago Boulder, CO

    Looks like @NOAA @NOAANCEIclimate forgot to mention that most of their data is fake

    • Macro 14.1

      🙄
      You could fly these people round the Earth, and up into space – and they would still say the Earth was flat!
      It’s scary when you pull your head out of the sand – you have to confront reality.
      No wonder they are determined to vote in Trump – at least he is one of them.

  14. Macro 15

    How warm was your city last year?Graph for Auckland which was 0.9 degrees C warmer than normal.

  15. Anne 17

    So now we know:

    Andrea Vance is part of the Dirty Political machine!

    Read this load of trashy misrepresentation. Boy oh boy, the RWNJs – including those in the media – are getting shit scared aren’t they. I see this as nothing more than a diversionary attack on Andrew Little because John Key is in strife.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/andrew-little-doesnt-have-chops-xenophobia-politics

    • Anne 17.1

      Tried to add the following excerpt but the edit function playing up again.

      He claimed – wrongly – that large numbers of these semi-skilled migrants were squeezing Kiwis out of jobs.

      Now that’s not what I read. What he did say – and I paraphrase – is that he thought it was likely some of these positions could be filled by NZ citizens and they should be given priority ahead of those being brought in from overseas.

      This is the same journalist who lead Peter Dunne up the garden path in an attempt to gain access to confidential information. Dunne was a fool to fall for it but it shows how unprincipled she can be.

      • Jenny Kirk 17.1.1

        I agree with you Anne – The Vance story almost reads like a Clare Trevett story and includes a so-called “insider” from the Labour caucus – this is scare tactics to unsettle Labour supporters. We’ll just have to keep vigilant and keep correcting the media as they continue to do this ……. it will get tedious.

    • Puckish Rogue 17.2

      Sure it is, its dirty politics…or its because over the past week hes said things that Winston Peters, the Greens and National all disagree with

      Maybe Andrew Little isn’t the leader you on the left were hoping for

      • Stuart Munro 17.2.1

        I should hope he’d disagree with National – they’re the worst government NZ has ever had – irredeemably corrupt, fiscally incompetent and morally repugnant without exception.

        • Puckish Rogue 17.2.1.1

          When, on the same subject, you get Winston, the Greens and National telling you you’re wrong then theres a very good chance you’re wrong

    • weka 17.3

      I don’t agree with some of what Vance is saying, esp the characterisation stuff (and talking about the precariat in an article about an ex union leader comes across as patronising), but there is nothing there to suggest she is working with National on this.

      • Puckish Rogue 17.3.1

        Yeah I think she is in Dirty Politics but shes on her side and no ones elses so pretty much like every other politician and journalist

        • weka 17.3.1.1

          You obviously have no idea what dirty politics is. It’s not simply saying mean things about people.

          • Puckish Rogue 17.3.1.1.1

            Well I’d suggest that Andrea Vances previous dealins with Peter Dunne and what she got up to at The News Of The World tells me that she probably is donkey deep in Dirty Politics and is loving it

      • Anne 17.3.2

        weka @ 17.3
        Media journos like Andrea Vance don’t have to work directly with National. They know instinctively what is expected of them. Indeed it is more effective if they keep their distance because they can then plead plausible deniability. Yesterday we saw the same game in operation when Little was interviewed on ZB Radio by Mike Hosking. Little acquitted himself well, but after he was gone Hosking turned on him with an unwarranted negative attack.

        Note: this tactic is only used when the target (Little in this case) is no longer present. Many of us predicted this kind of thing would occur as Little and Labour started to make inroads on the political scene.

        • Puckish Rogue 17.3.2.1

          and yet the very same journalists were swarming all over Cameron Slater, if they know whats expected of them wouldn’t they have not gone after Slater?

        • Chuck 17.3.2.2

          I listened to that interview, Little came across back peddling big time. Hosking let him explain himself (back peddling) then summarised it up pretty well after. Also adding in Little’s “strong arming the banks” it was a few days I am sure Little will want to forget. Of course its not what you want to hear…but if you think Little and Labour are making inroads then that’s all good.

    • Grim 17.4

      People need to read that article, it exposes exactly what they want labour supporters to do:

      drop immigration, back off the banks, and question Little’s Leadership qualities instead of their journalistic integrity.

      Little could do with a bit of media grooming, but also he needs to show strength, don’t allow the media to force him to back down or apologize, he needs to hold the media to account.

      She uses a lot of half truths, if you can spot the half that is the truth, you can see the lie they want you to swallow.

      Dressing up an attack propaganda piece as constructive criticism, I think she outsmarted herself, she does indeed point out a few flaws that need addressing.
      Mainly how to deal with biased media 🙂

      • Anne 17.4.1

        Got it in one Grim. Best comment I’ve seen on the subject. I’ve been on about some media training for the past 6 mths but, as yet, there has been no detectable improvement . First and foremost Little needs to project his voice better. Half of what he say gets lost in the ether which makes it easy for his journo detractors to paint him in a negative light and misconstrue his utterances. We have seen a lot of examples of it including from Andrea Vance today.

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