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Open Mike 18/05/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 18th, 2017 - 29 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

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29 comments on “Open Mike 18/05/2017 ”

  1. indiana 1

    “Labour’s website had the policy on it the very next day. Now I’m experienced enough to know that political rhetoric is just that. It is meant to appeal to a room full of nodding heads.”

    From http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11857784

    I hope people are not setting Little up.

    • Bearded Git 1.1

      @ Indiana

      It is a former ACT party candidate writing that article-and it is bollocks.

      As Damien O’Connor said on Back Benches last night, if people investing in a second house to rent out (speculating on capital gains in the process) don’t like the new tax law they can invest in something else.

      That is the point of the new law-to end favourable treatment of property speculation, whether for one house or twenty, and to help direct investment into more productive sources.

      The term “mum and dad” investors is a National Party construct-they are all speculators.

      • indiana 1.1.1

        ” if people investing in a second house to rent out (speculating on capital gains in the process) don’t like the new tax law they can invest in something else.”…or not vote Labour.

        I’ll admit that I own more than one house, but I never brought the second house thinking “Wow, I can’t wait to benefit from the capital gains!” – I would think that most New Zealanders would feel the same way. Little dropped the CGT as it was essentially seen as attacking hardworking Kiwi’s, but now he’s being driven to think that there is a “loophole” that speculators (Which Labour has not identified clearly who they are) are exploiting – but the end will come back to attack hard working Kiwi’s.

        • David 1.1.1.1

          Your accountant might have been thinking that you were benefitting from the capital gains… It’s an attitude thing, it’s so ingrained into our psyche to attain as much of this beautiful country as we can to ourselves, I blame Roger Douglas for the shock he inflicted on NZ, we’ve never recovered, and societally we think that acquiring property is the only way to prosperity. With so many ways to invest, that are more productive, I can’t see why people want housing, it’s a social need, not a profitable business. I like to think of myself as an entrepreneur, except for that pesky money thing, I’ve had 6 to 7 business ideas that I think would have succeeded, and half of those could have really taken off. Instead, I’m busting my arse to provide a life for my family, and hopefully own the roof over our heads one day, that’d be nice.

          Cue the usual trolls telling me I should work harder, or be smarter or prettier.

          • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1.1

            I like to think of myself as an entrepreneur, except for that pesky money thing, I’ve had 6 to 7 business ideas that I think would have succeeded, and half of those could have really taken off. Instead, I’m busting my arse to provide a life for my family, and hopefully own the roof over our heads one day, that’d be nice.

            Most of the country is in that position. They have ideas, would love to develop them but can’t because they don’t have access to the wherewithal necessary to do so. We lose a lot of possibilities because of this.

            It’s why I like a UBI. It would give people the backing necessary to develop their own ideas and we’d all be better off because of it.

            • mauī 1.1.1.1.1.1

              I enjoyed Gareth Morgan’s latest video on his facebook page. In it he interviews a young woman about a Universal Basic Income (UBI), she likes the idea because she would be paid for doing what she enjoys and wants to do – making music. He mentions that the volunteer workforce such as people doing environment work and elders in community orgs would be recognised by a UBI too, which the current economy doesn’t do (well sort of if you count Super).

        • weka 1.1.1.2

          “I would think that most New Zealanders would feel the same way.”

          You would be wrong then. Most people in NZ are fully aware that property values in most places in NZ have increased exponentially and that if you own an investment property you are going to make a lot more money because of that than just from the rent.

          Making money from increasing market values is by definition not what ‘hard working kiwis’ do. Your making money from doing essentially nothing is in fact hurting hard working kiwis across the board in the form of excessive mortgages, rents, and in some places a severe housing shortage.

          • indiana 1.1.1.2.1

            “Making money from increasing market values is by definition not what ‘hard working kiwis’ do.”

            You are right…it should be “Making money from increasing market values is what smart Kiwi’s do” Current home owners are not hurting others and it is wrong to imply that they are. What hurts non-home owners are councils and political parties that do not free up land for development so that more homes can be built and non-home owners hurt themselves by expecting governments to be the solution to all their woes.

            Fact of life: House values will always increase, only the rate of the increase will vary over time. Little learned this with his Brooklyn house increasing in value the most during a Labour led government Bu, he never said “You know what, I should be paying CGT for this” or “Oh my, I must really be hurting those hard working Kiwi’s”.

            • weka 1.1.1.2.1.1

              “Current home owners are not hurting others and it is wrong to imply that they are.”

              I didn’t say they are. I said people speculating in the property market are. They aren’t home owners. I’m also saying that people wanting to make money out of multiple properties for essentially doing nothing and then resisting paying tax are hurting others.

              There are places in NZ with lots of land and development and there are still people in those places who can’t find stable housing because of the whole housing crisis. So freeing up more land and slackening regulations is not a solution and in many cases will just make that worse as it inflates property prices even more. We need a nationwide solution that takes into account the many reasons why housing is in crisis, not quick fix silver bullets that ignore the base problems.

              “House values will always increase, only the rate of the increase will vary over time.”

              Yes, and it’s the rate of increase that is the problem. Hence the need for taxation and regulation.

            • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.2.1.2

              You are right…it should be “Making money from increasing market values is what smart Kiwi’s do”

              No, that’s what bludgers do and it’s their sole purpose for being – getting lots from everyone else for doing nothing.

              Current home owners are not hurting others and it is wrong to imply that they are.

              It’s not the current home owners but the speculators – the people who expect to make money on the house. Of course, that does include many current home owners who are using their house as an ATM.

              And, yes, that does hurt society.

              What hurts non-home owners are councils and political parties that do not free up land for development so that more homes can be built

              No amount of land will do that if the houses aren’t being built and that is due to the developers not building them. there’s plenty of land available.

              House values will always increase

              But they shouldn’t. A house from one year to the next hasn’t increased in value at all so why should its price increase?

              • Graeme

                Need to make a distinction between “home owners” as in owner occupiers, and house owners, as in those who’s home is somewhere else. They own someone else’s home.

        • Bearded Git 1.1.1.3

          @Indiana
          …but I never brought the second house thinking “Wow, I can’t wait to benefit from the capital gains!”

          That’s right you bought the house thinking “I know this is going to lose 50% of its value over the next 5 years but that is ok because I love it”

          Yeah right.

  2. ianmac 2

    Fran O’Sullivan writes this:
    “The upshot is the PR massaging should not obscure the fact that Auckland still faces a humongous supply problem on the housing front. Housing deserves to be the number one election issue and solutions found for what is a big national issue.The upshot is the PR massaging should not obscure the fact that Auckland still faces a humongous supply problem on the housing front. Housing deserves to be the number one election issue and solutions found for what is a big national issue.”
    Mike the Flailing Minute says, “Housing is not an Election issue and Labour is wrong to try and make it so.”
    Can’ both be right. So umm.. who should I believe?
    Fan: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11857926

    • tc 2.1

      Nacts cheerleaders not being aligned makes for interesting times.

      • aerobubble 2.1.1

        Housing problem will explode after the election, Naffy nats need to make the election about something else, so they can act all surprised or make it a new ggovts problem fromopposotion. Delay,obfuscate and distract.

        • ianmac 2.1.1.1

          Yes aero. Wondered about that. Who will get the blame if next year under a Labour lead Government, house prices plummet. Will Labour get away with “9 long years of National Mismanagement?”

  3. Andre 3

    Tick tock tick tock.

    Robert Mueller is appointed Special Prosecutor.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/doj-special-counsel-russia-trump_us_591cbfa2e4b03b485cae5465?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

    So will it be a wide-ranging investigation like Ken Starr’s inquisition, or will it have narrow terms?

  4. Marco 4

    Just had a thought. If water (ie rain) is a public resource that no one should profit from, what about all those fruit growers, market gardeners etc – especially the ones that export. That’s “our” stuff they’re stealing isn’t it?

    • weka 4.1

      Two issues there. One is how the use of the commons affects everyone else, and whether some uses are theft. The other is how exporting affects ecologies and their cycles.

      The latter is more obvious with something like dairying where we are pulling the remaining fertility out of the ground and sending it overseas. It’s the worst kind of farming we can do, and there are plenty of other good ways to farm that don’t harm the land. But that doesn’t solve the exporting problem. Exporting commodities or even higher value products is inherently unsustainable both in terms of the land and watershed, and in AGW terms.

      In that sense, I agree it’s a theft, but I’m pretty sure that’s not what you were referring to. If you mean that because some farmers use rain to grow cabbage and then export them, that people should be allowed to mine water and export that, then that’s like saying hey those people over there are picking up money they find on the ground and spending it so it’s ok for us to rob a dairy. (inadequate analogy, but best I can do at lunchtime).

    • “Just had a thought”

      Sure you did, Marco. Just “thought” that selling a lettuce is “stealing”.
      Nah. Your “thought” is a desperate attempt to conflate actual resource theft (think, “Swamp Kauri”) with something we know to be bona fide. Rain falls, plants grow; putting water through an irrigation system and a cow is a different thing altogether.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.3

      what about all those fruit growers, market gardeners etc

      What about them? They should pay for the resources that they use at the market rate. Isn’t that how the market is supposed to work?

      Councils should do a lot of scientific research to determine how much can be removed from the ecosystem that supports us and then restrict the use of that water to that limit. That should help set the price that the council should charge.

  5. UncookedSelachimorpha 5

    The rush to flog the country to foreigners builds the Brighter Future at Silver Fern Farms this week – 370 jobs in the firing line.

    One week after the layoffs, no doubt WINZ will be subjecting the ex-workers to “working for you” seminars, “obligation failures” and telling them they are a bunch of drug using layabouts who just won’t get off their arses and find a job etc etc.

    Loving that Brighter Future!!

    • saveNZ 5.1

      +1 – Rod Oram has some interesting insight when the Silver Ferns merger went ahead. Basically for 50% share Shanghai Maling somehow got more than 50% control of how it was going to be run. It was unusual.

      Oh well. Silver Fern Farms, Cadbury, etc etc all about gutting the business and getting the profits offshore. Our Natz government and the business press, cheerleads this on.

      I guess it’s great not to care about any thing but themselves and only worry about clingling to power.

    • US/RS Jericho Station, Southland; sold to the man from Mainland China!

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