“It’s always an honor to be asked to come and pay tribute to someone with a career as long and distinguished as Bruce’s…. integrity beyond reproach…. It’s a great tragedy and an irony that a man of such great character should have been subject to those accusations.”
Humbug Corner is dedicated to gathering, and highlighting, the most striking examples of faux solicitude, insincere apologies, and particularly stupid recycling of official canards. It is produced by the Insincerity Project®, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.
More appalling humbug….
No. 3 Dean Lonergan: “Y’ know what? The only people who will mock them are people who are dwarfists.”
No. 2 Peter Dunne: “What a load of drivel and sanctimonious humbug…”
See also….
No. 21 Tim Groser: “I think the relationship is genuinely in outstanding form.”
No. 20 John Key: “But if the question is do we use the United States or one of our other partners to circumvent New Zealand law then the answer is categorically no.”
No. 19 Matthew Hooton: “It is ridiculous to say that unions deliver higher wages! They DON’T!”
No. 18 Ant Strachan: “The All Blacks won the RWC 2011 because of outstanding defence!”
No. 17 Stephen Franks: “Peter has been such a level-headed, safe pair of hands.”
No. 16 Phil Kafcaloudes: “Tony Abbott…hasn’t made any mistakes over the past eighteen months.”
No. 15 Donald Rumsfeld: “I did not lie… Colin Powell did not lie.”
No. 14 Colin Powell: “a post-9/11 nexus between Iraq and terrorist organizations…connections are now emerging…”
No.13 Barack Obama: “Simply put, these strikes have saved lives.”
No. 12 U.K. Ministry of Defence: “Protecting the Afghan civilian population is one of ISAF and the UK’s top priorities.”
No. 11 Brendan O’Connor: “Australia’s approach to refugees is compassionate and generous.”
No. 10 Boris Johnson: “Londoners have… the best police in the world to look after us and keep us safe.”
No. 9 NewstalkZB PR dept: “News you NEED! Fast, fair, accurate!”
No. 8 Simon Bridges: “I don’t mean to duck the question….”
No. 7 Nigel Morrison: “Quite frankly, they’ve been VERY tough.”
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-15052013/#comment-633295
No. 6 NZ Herald PR dept: “Congratulations—you’re reading New Zealand’s best newspaper.”
No. 5 Rawdon Christie: “…a FORMIDABLE replacement, it seems, is Claudette Hauiti.” http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13052013/#comment-632594
No. 4 Willie and J.T.: “The X-Factor. Nah, nah, there’s some GREAT talent there!”
No. 3 John Key: “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”
No. 2 Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.”
No. 1 Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”
Amnesty’s skewed priorities
by zemblan and Joe Emersberger, Media Lens, 17.6.13
A revealing snippet from the Guardian‘s ‘Politics Live Blog’ on the G8 Summit:
3.15pm: ‘Amnesty International are being allowed through the gates of the summit to deliver a letter to Vladimir Putin. As Henry McDonald reports, they will tell the Russian President to release the punk protest band Pussy Riot, two of whom are still in jail. A number of Amnesty activists will wear balaclavas similar to the ones the band don when they go on stage.’
They apparently didn’t have the mental wherewithal to write a letter condemning the US government’s persecution of whistleblowers like Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden. Nor did they have the initiative to condemn the British government’s treatment of Julian Assange.
Amnesty gave jailed Pussy Riot members Prisoner of Conscience designation within about two months of their incarceration.
Manning has been jailed and tortued in broad daylight for years and Amnesty has said it has been “investigating” all these years if he really qualifies as a Prisoner of Conscience.
“With each generation, it becomes harder to imagine a future that resembles the present…”.
Teaser:
…These inventions were not created to be improvements upon face-to-face communication, but a declension of acceptable, if diminished, substitutes for it. I’m almost sure that’s right: a computer is just a more complex telephone. Also, the word ‘declension’: yeah.
But then a funny thing happened: we began to prefer the diminished substitutes. It’s easier to make a phone call than to schlep to see someone in person. Leaving a message on someone’s machine is easier than having a phone conversation. So we began calling when we knew no one would pick up. Especially our brother-in-law, Frank. How we all hate talking to Frank.
Shooting off an e-mail is easier, still, because one can hide behind the absence of vocal inflection, and of course there’s no chance of accidentally catching Frank. And texting is even easier, as the expectation for articulateness is further reduced, and another shell is offered to hide in. Each step “forward” has made it easier, just a little, to avoid the emotional work of being present, to convey information rather than humanity…
Bradley, Assange, and Snowden are accused of revealing crimes committed by the world’s deadliest terrorist organization: the US military.
“The phrase “war on terrorism” should always be used in quotes, because there can’t possibly be a war on terrorism. It’s impossible. The reason is it’s led by one of the worst terrorist states in the world, in fact, it’s led by the only state in the world which has been condemned by the highest international authorities for international terrorism, namely the World Court and Security Council, except that the US vetoed the resolution.” Noam Chomsky
RIP Anti-racism dog @anti_racicm_dog.. nevermore will we hear your barking.
The account @Anti_Racism_Dog didn’t last long. Twitter suspended it quickly, a fate reserved only for the most aggressive, abusive and hateful users. What could a dog – an anti-racist one, at that – do to deserve it? @Anti_Racism_Dog had one real function: to bark at racist speech on Twitter. The account responded to tweets it deemed racist with the simple response ‘bark bark bark!’ Sometimes it would send wags to supporters but that was pretty much it.
For the short time it lasted, it was amazing to watch how people reacted to @Anti_Racism_Dog.
snip
Colour-blind racists feed on good-faith debate, and engaging with them, especially online, is almost always futile. But when they’re barked at by a dog, one whose only quality is anti-racism, they flip the fuck out. They demand to be engaged in debate (‘Tell me how what I said was racist!’) or appeal to objective definitions (‘The dictionary says racist means X, therefore nothing I said was racist’), but @Anti_Racism_Dog just barks.
A true troll doesn’t have a position to protect because to establish one would leave it vulnerable to attack, and playing defence takes time. @Anti_Racism_Dog, by fully assuming the persona of an animal, was invulnerable to counter-attack. You can’t explain yourself to a dog and you look like an idiot trying. The only way to win is not to play but this is the colour-blind racist’s Achilles Heel: they’re compelled to defend themselves against accusations of racism. It’s the anti-racist argument that gives them content; theirs is an ideology that’s in large part a list of counter-arguments. After all, white-supremacists are already winning – their task now is to keep the same racist structures in place while making plausibly colour-blind arguments against dismantling them. @Anti_Racism_Dog was empty of anything other than accusation and so left its targets sputtering.
The account served a second purpose: as a sort of anti-racist hunting dog. @Anti_Racism_Dog quickly attracted a lot of like-minded followers who understood the dynamics at play. Whenever it would start barking at another user, this was a cue to the dog’s followers to troll the offender as well. There’s only so much one dog can do alone. Colour-blind racism is particularly dangerous because it isn’t immediately visible as such. It provokes good-faith discussion from liberals about what counts as racism, muddying the water. But @Anti_Racism_Dog’s strategy draws new lines about what constitutes acceptable discourse on race, placing colour-blind racists on the other side by speaking to them like an animal. What would be taken as totally insane in flesh space can be infuriatingly clever online.
How much longer is the public going to continue to prop up Mediaworks? They consider themselves so independent but with this and NZOA funding they’re sucking on the taxpayer teat like a newborn rat.
How can the IRD be left out I though the IRD were first in line?
If the sale price is only for the amount owing to the banks and the purchaser then voluntarily agrees to pay all creditors except for IRD then it can happen.
There also are the issues of employment contracts, bonuses leave entitlements and howthese fall in the ranking of payments and the ability to transfers these to another entity.
then there are existing Nzoa grants to programms that are currently under production,( and I understand that many production coys are independent of the tv station that airs them ) there are many avenues that the greater “govt ” can withhold existing funding to media works,ability to transfer the broadcasting license.
There could also be potential of fraud as there under your scenario a scripted plan to defraud a or some creditors. I am sure that media works have some gifted lawyers that will protect the parent coy yet close investigation could find an t uncrossed or an I that is not doted. The govt has to be seen doing all it can against such a corporate that has displayed such contempt towards this country.
These are just a few random thoughts 😉
‘Jobcentre advisors will have unprecedented powers to compel claimants to carry out whatever old bollocks they can come up with to waste unemployed people’s time looking for jobs which aren’t there. Those who do not meet their Claimant Commitment could face having benefits stopped for up to three years. For those with children this could be devastating, for those severely unwell or disabled it could mean death.’
This is the UK model that Paula is following. I have severe rheumatoid arthritis and am on the invalid benefit, soon to become the ‘supported living payment’. I have so far managed to stymie attempts to move me to the sickness benefit, soon to be the jobseekers allowance. But I expect further harassment. I did not choose to have this disease which has cost me two careers, I can cope with living on less than $300 per week but I find it difficult to cope with the harassment from MSD and the ‘bludging beneficiary’ label. Since the Natz, a lot of Invalid beneficiaries have been dumped onto the Sickness Benefit ( a process started by Labour). Many of these people have psychiatric disabilities and stress is the last thing they need. But Johnny reckons he’ll have the welfare bill down regardless and Labour refuse to say different. Meanwhile we wait in fear…..
I am so sorry that you have to face this harassment beatie – it is a blight on our society that those who need help get treated the way you are – kia kaha. I can appreciate the fear you feel and the additional stress this is giving you and your family – what a terrible situation to be in for you – all the best.
Hi beatie and marty mars “I am so sorry that you have to face this harassment beatie”
Yes it is harassment re John Minto the government want to remove 100,000 off the benefit in the next 10 years:
“Government’s plan to push 100,000 off welfare with no job plan in place is shameful
“It’s shameful that the government is pressing ahead with this latest round of welfare changes”, says John Minto, Vice-President of the MANA Movement. “When the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill comes up in the House for its second reading later today there’s only one place it belongs – in the rubbish, because that’s how it treats people impacted by it –as rubbish.”
The bill marks the second big step in the wave of reforms initiated by Paula Bennett and Paula Rebstock back in 2010, all aimed at getting up to 100,000 beneficiaries off welfare in the next ten years.”
This government intends to fit beneficiaries onto a procrustian bed of shame and harassment and distress to save themselves money to give the rich more tax cuts and pay private organisations to do the dirty work like ATOS in the U$K. Shame on them. It’s to be an exercise in sadism to satisfy the propaganda they’ve been spewing for over a decade: People like Michael Laws. Atos in the U$K is a criminal harassment organisation funded by a criminal government that has caused the deaths of many people.
“In Greek mythology, Procrustes (Προκρούστης) or “the stretcher [who hammers out the metal]”, also known as Prokoptas or Damastes (Δαμαστής) “subduer”, was a rogue smith and bandit from Attica who physically attacked people by stretching them or cutting off their legs, so as to force them to fit the size of an iron bed. In general, when something is Procrustean, different lengths or sizes or properties are fitted to an arbitrary standard.”
beatie – Sorry to hear your distress and concerns.
Yes, I and a fair few others are equally worried, about what Bennett and her ‘Work and Insult” department will present to us from next month on. I have information that MSD (the Ministry) is already actively seeking requests for proposals for having mentally ill on benefits referred to outsourced service providers, who are supposed to get them into some kind of work.
It is all still in the process and kept from the public eye and ear, but they are wanting to commission agencies, who may be NGOs or employment agencies, to try placing mentally ill youth in Auckland at least into jobs, for which the providers will be offered “rewarding” fees.
WINZ will refer clients that are considered “fit” to do certain work to those providers, and naturally they will have expectations.
Nothing has been published about future assessments in detail, but looking at some policy documents that were released to the media a few months back, there are going to be various “tools” they will use, from self assessments, to targeted interviews with certain WINZ staff, up to the supposed “independent” examinations and assessments that may be done by medical staff, rehab staff or others they will select to do this.
It is scandalous that the government passed the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Act without informing the opposition parties and MPs, nor the public, about how they will decide who will be capable to do some work, and who not.
This is again a secret agenda, and I am sure, they will in future be much less transparent in anything they will do, as they got quite a scare when some took them on about unfair, unreasonable and not fact based recommendations by certain designated doctors and their health and disability advisors.
Yet from what I also hear, it seems they are going to tread more carefully than DWP have in the UK, because having people commit suicide, or harm themselves in other ways, that will not be the headlines Paula Bennett and John Key want here.
So be mindful, alert and prepared, but do not freak yourself out too much. In any case, prepare by already connecting with advocates, support networks and others, friends and family included, so when they come to challenge you, take witnesses to assessments and else.
At some stage there will likely be legal challenges on all what they will try, and I expect WINZ and MSD to breach natural justice in many cases. If people get together, pull resources and efforts together, and perhaps find a good lawyer, who may be prepared to take WINZ on, then something will be achieved.
Apart from all this: I am still furious that WINZ and MSD also always tell clients to use their websites, but it is hard to get to some of their offices, their kiosks and computers are often booked out, and the same applies to public libraries. Internet cafes cost money, so do home connections.
When do MSD and WINZ live up to the 21st century standards of communication and not only cover phone line costs for sick and disabled, but also internet access, I ask???!
Two-faced Bridges – tells Parliament one thing and does another.
Last week he told Parliament that he would be meeting with ILO officials in Geneva to discuss his employment law changes – but now he is in Geneva he is refusing to meet with them.
Ugh! The vomit inducing Bridges! He’s a lying sneaky rat, no different to his peers and should not be in the position he is in.
Perhaps he just can’t face the possibility of being scrutinised and held to account by the ILO. If he has a change a heart and does meet with the ILO maybe they can take up the issue of the 90 day bill while they’re at it. I had thought that the denial of access to legal representation in the case of a workplace personal grievance was against one of the ILO conventions. Not sure which number though. Does anyone know?
I also have rheumatoid arthritis. It is an incurable disease so how can you be taken off an invalid benefit onto sickness benefit. My understanding of invalids is that there is no chance of cure within 2 years and sickness benefit 6 months. Has this criteria changed? RA is a brutal, painful disease and the added stress of worrying about this must be terrible. Do you have an understanding doctor/rheumatologist. I feel for you. Good luck.
I went to my GP for a Winz medical cert and he gave me one for 3 months, he said if ‘I could drive, I could work’ and ‘I needed to consider paying back to society the cost of a recent joint replacement’ I’m not kidding! I asked my rheumatologist and he gave me one for 5 years. Now, I think you have to use a Winz ‘designated doctor’ who follows the ‘arbeit mact frei’ Winz line. The idea that the Invalid Benefit is for long-term/incurable illnesses was dismantled by the last Labour govt. I have a friend who has schizophrenia who is on the sickness/jobseeker allowance and will be harassed to find a job and sanctioned if they fail to comply. I think that most NZ’ers don’t have the faintest idea of how these ‘reforms’ will impact on those with a disability.
I have a friend who has schizophrenia who is on the sickness/jobseeker allowance and will be harassed to find a job and sanctioned if they fail to comply. I think that most NZ’ers don’t have the faintest idea of how these ‘reforms’ will impact on those with a disability.
Harrassment and denigration. It seems that a great number of NZs always middle-class plus those who have moved up the income ladder with social aspirations, never accepted the idea of a social contract and concern for all. See David Bennett Mp comment elsewhere on TS today.
The stats may very well be that 10% of beneficiaries may be fraudulent, not doing their bit to help themselves and put into society, 10% find jobs which they can manage and live on and are probably helped into at the beginning. The rest are going to have this gang of harpies and witch-hunters after them. What a soul destroying job to have to work for WINZ. It’s likely to produce a resentment that as they have to suffer so they will pass it on.
Yep. Sounds like the story behind yesterday’s armed man in wheelchair incident in Auckland, as somebody speculated here might be the case before the perp was taken into custody.
beatie, I would suggest getting a different GP. Unless you are in a really small town, you should have a choice. You don’t have to put up with ideological bullying.
(I do live in a very small town with a doctor shortage, so changing is difficult. However I refuse to see him and see a locum if I need to. He instructed his office staff not to accept beneficiaries onto his books. Unfortunately this attitude underlies Winz welfare ‘reforms’. The chief medical advisor to Winz, Dr David Bratt, (appointed under Labour) believes that being on a benefit is worse than heroin addiction. Those who choose to believe that beneficiaries are rorting the system have no idea and are a huge part of the problem. Try getting on, staying on and surviving on a benefit before uttering such smug fallacies.
“He instructed his office staff not to accept beneficiaries onto his books.”
This is a breach of the Human Rights Act, for sure!!!
A doctor has no right and breaches also the Code of Ethics of the NZ medical profession, if he does this. I see the problem you may have to prove this, as his staff will not say what they have been told by him.
Document everything he does and says to you and perhaps others, and consider making a complaint to the Health and Disability Commissioner, even though that office is also rather useless in many ways.
A sad state of affairs there is, in especially the more rural areas of N.Z..
He is a wealthy South African immigrant and he owns his practice. His office worker came to our advocacy organisation with an employment complaint and she told us about the ‘no beneficiaries’ rule. He’s pissed off a lot of local people but so far got away with it. It’s difficult to prove these matters. Incidentally at least one of the local real-estate agents also has a ‘no beneficiaries’ policy. It’s difficult to keep these things quiet in a small town.
The devil made guns to give Americans the opportunity to obtain them to protect themselves from other Americans who obtain them and make everybody safer. I am reliably informed by sources in Iran that the devil is actually an American.
How far to the nearest other town with a GP beatie? I think you definitely have a case for claiming transport costs from WINZ to see someone else.
I would keep notes, with times, dates etc of what is said. You can also ask to have a practice nurse sit in on any consult, or even a Health and Disability advocate. It’s amazing the things some people won’t say when there is a witness. And if he does say them, you have proof.
“I went to my GP for a Winz medical cert and he gave me one for 3 months, he said if ‘I could drive, I could work’ and ‘I needed to consider paying back to society the cost of a recent joint replacement’ I’m not kidding!”
How disgusting a GP that is! Sadly the same people that have been known for pushing the whole agenda, who include ones like Dr David Beaumont (formerly from ATOS) – as advisor for MSD (and others), like Dr Des Gorman, Chief of Health Workforce NZ (in charge of recruitment and involved also in working on training programs for staff in the medical field), who also is now on the board of ACC, who gave some appalling advice on past ACC cases, and possibly still is the top man on the National Health Board, same as of course Dr David Bratt, Principal Health Advisor for MSD (comparing benefit dependence to drug dependence), plus of course Prof. Mansel Aylward (one of the key propagators of “work being the best treatment to get well”, advisor to Paula Bennett, also due to speak to a leading GP conference in Rotorua in a week or so) and “Dame Black” (like Aylward also from the UK), they have all been involved in sending the same “messages” to medical practitioners.
Doctors are also being lobbied, trained and influenced, to work along the new philosophy, following the perverted interpretation of the “bio-psycho social model” for illness and disability issues, as DWP in the UK and now WINZ in New Zealand are pushing for.
It goes beyond WINZ’s designated doctors and health and disability advisors now, and some doctors are concerned.
That GP of yours needs a good reminder of his Code of Ethics, which ensures that the well-being of the patient comes before all else!
I am glad a more competent, properly qualified professional gave you a better, more sympathetic treatment.
That is what I tell all affected. Do not just rely on your GP, go and consult a specialist in the very health areas you suffer from, be this a rheumatoligist, an orthopaedic specialist, a psychologist, a psychiatrist, counsellor, or whatever!
GPs often lack sufficient in depth knowledge, but of course they would never admit it. They like to call themselves “specialist generalists”, what a contradiction in terms, really!
I dunno. It’s a mixed bag with GPs. Mine had no problem completing medical certificates for IBs for people who really were not able to work. She had a problem with being abused for not completing them for a small fraction of patients who were fit for work, after WINZ had reportedly told them no problem getting your benefit extended, just get your GP to sign the certificate. Mind you, that discussion took place about 5 years ago. Things are a lot different now, but my GP will still be batting & even battling for genuine cases.
Unfortunately yes things are a lot different now. My latest letter from Winz warned me not to jet off overseas without informing them first (so they could cut my benefit). Reality check….today I treated myself to a 3 month car reg (no public transport here).
Well to be fair it is pretty important for the thousands of beneficiaries who regularly embark on overseas shopping trips to let WINZ know they’ll be offshore visiting overseas thrift & pawn shops for a few days.
‘it’s a mixed bag with GPs. Mine had no problem completing medical certificates for IBs for people who really were not able to work.’ Hmmm. I can work, I’d love to work and I think I have a lot to offer, but I would need lots of days off when I’m unwell and I can’t type very fast because my hands are crippled. So whether you can do paid work or not is not the issue. I can work but no-one will employ me, especially when I’m competing withe the able-bodied..I believe the whole point of these reforms is to drive down wages and conditions for those who have paid work.
That GP of yours needs a good reminder of his Code of Ethics, which ensures that the well-being of the patient comes before all else!
I am glad a more competent, properly qualified professional gave you a better, more sympathetic treatment.
That is what I tell all affected. Do not just rely on your GP, go and consult a specialist in the very health areas you suffer from, be this a rheumatoligist, an orthopaedic specialist, a psychologist, a psychiatrist, counsellor, or whatever!
GPs often lack sufficient in depth knowledge, but of course they would never admit it. They like to call themselves “specialist generalists”, what a contradiction in terms, really!
Plenty of specialists who are arseholes too unfortunately. I’ve come across some excellent GPs too. It really comes down to the individual person. And for the beneficiary, what kind of disability/illness they have is critical to who they should see. Some are going to be better off with a compassionate GP rather than an unsympathetic specialist.
weka – as for medical professionals, any of us, whether affected and needing reports on conditions and illnesses from GPs or others, we should never be forced to do something like “doctor shopping”, for those that do their job, or as you describe as being sympathetic.
All of them have to abide by Codes of Ethics, and if they do not abide by them, they should be exposed, criticised and attacked for it. They may be in the wrong job, if they do not take their code serious.
Abuse by some “patients” may be attempted and may happen, but I see also that some medical staff are trying to not follow the codes and just do not want to bother with beneficiaries. That is unacceptable.
It is totally unacceptable to explain bias and prejudice away with “individual persons” acting differently.
Then you may as well tolerate the application of the Sharia in New Zealand, by those who think that is necessary to keep “order”!
In your previous comment you seemed to be saying that people on medical benefits should see a specialist because GPs are fairly useless. I was pointing out that the qualification or area of specialisation of the doctor is irrelevant, it’s the compassion and politics of the practitioner that counts when it comes to support with WINZ shit. Just because someone is a specialist, it doesn’t mean they will be competent at dealing with WINZ.
I agree with you that bias and lack of professional ethics is unacceptable. That’s an issue for NZ and medical practitioners to sort out. Advice to beneficiaries… I stand by making the suggestion that they choose a practitioner who isn’t an arsehole and go to some length to do that even if it does mean shopping around. Many people still believe they have to take shit from their doctor because their doctor is their doctor and can’t be changed. That’s just bullshit. I also acknowledge that for some people it is very difficult to be assertive enough to change doctors, esp where there is not much choice.
Ok, I suggested seeing a specialist, because MSD and WINZ can also turn around and say themselves (that is their case managers, or the more secretive Regional Health Advisors or Disability Advisors), well, that is what her or his GP says. We think though, the GP may not be the best medical “expert” to listen to, so hey, send the client to a designated doctor, who may have some extra “specialised skills” that appear to be more appropriate.
Then the client gets sent there and gets assessed by a WINZ trained and picked doctor, who will be less sympathetic.
In view of such possibilities I think it would make sense to go and see a specialist, who is also perhaps sympathetic at the same time, to cover oneself in case WINZ try to question reports. MSD and WINZ have many tricks up their sleeves, and so getting ones own specialist before they may come with their own doctors for a second opinion, seems advisable from my point of view.
It would certainly make sense to try and consult a specialist, if the own GP is not very sympathetic. But of course then I would try and also find a new GP.
I accept your point that some are scared to change doctors. Yes, it is understandable, as it involves looking around and approaching other doctors, whom one does not know. Then there are very private informations involved also. Changing a doctor is not done easily, as any person doing so wants to know that the new doctor can be trusted. Also those living in small towns and rural regions, they will have a very limited choice amongst doctors. I have heard enough feedback from some, who would have to travel large distances to see another doctor. When you are on a benefit such travel may be impossible or prohibitively expensive.
And challenging a doctor in such scenarios is not easy either, as the doctor may be well respected with others in such more “conservative” places. The media in such places will also not want to write critical reports on a local doctor, who could go and sue them for alleged defamation. Staff working for the doctor will not want to risk their jobs and say what they know.
I feel for people in such remote areas, as they live under conditions allowing little choice and making it very difficult to challenge unreasonableness, discrimination and what else there may be. So it pays to establish contacts to outsiders, who may be able to raise matters via channels like this forum, to at least raise awareness.
“My understanding of invalids is that there is no chance of cure within 2 years and sickness benefit 6 months. Has this criteria changed? ”
IB has become Supported Living Payment. Within that, some people will be assessed to see if they are work ready (either full or part time).
Sickness benefit has become part of the Job-seeker benefit ie they are in the same general category as unemployed people, but will have different assessment processes, depending on their illness.
From WINZ, SLP
Assessing your ability to work
We may ask some people on Supported Living Payment to do a self-assessment to tell us about the sort of work they think they might be able to do, and how we could help them to achieve that.
In some cases, we may also ask people to meet with an independent health professional as part of our assessment process.
These aren’t things we’ll ask everyone to do, as it will depend on people’s circumstances.
I take that to mean that not much has changed technically (still using designated doctors etc), but they are formalising processes so that it’s easier for them to target IBs for work. But as it says, it won’t be everyone, so anyone on IB should be making sure their GP is competent at supporting them for when the time comes.
Re SB
People receiving the following benefits on 15 July 2013 will transfer to Jobseeker Support:
Unemployment Benefit
Sickness Benefit
Domestic Purposes Benefit (Sole Parents with youngest child aged 14 or over, and Women Alone)
Widow’s Benefit (without children, or with youngest child aged 14 or over).
…
New obligations and other changes that apply to you
To receive Jobseeker Support, there are some new things you must do. These are listed below. At any time, if you can’t meet these requirements, please talk to us. Unless you have a good reason for not meeting them, your benefit could reduce or stop.
Accepting offers of suitable employment
If you’re required to look for work, and from 15 July 2013 you turn down a suitable job without a good reason, your benefit will reduce by up to half (if you have dependent children) or stop (if you don’t have dependent children) for a 13-week period.
If you’ve given us a medical certificate
There’s no change to what your current medical certificate means for your obligations, or what you need to do when it expires. We may ask you to do a self-assessment. This is an opportunity for you to tell us about the sort of work you think you can do now or in future, and how we could help you back into work.
Plus some stuff about drug testing.
I take that to mean that the UB rules will apply to SB, once the SB person has been assessed for work.
The self-assessment thing should be treated with the utmost caution, because they will be able to use that against people later. eg “I’d really like to be able to do some voluntary work at some point” becomes “they’re capable of working and should be looking for a part time job”.
As per usual, the people that have good skills at dealing with abusive systems will do ok-ish, the people that don’t will get hammered. Fuck Key, Bennet, bigots, and all the liberal middle classes who are letting this happen on their watch.
Xtasy’s advice is excellent So be mindful, alert and prepared, but do not freak yourself out too much. In any case, prepare by already connecting with advocates, support networks and others, friends and family included, so when they come to challenge you, take witnesses to assessments and else. I would add, get everything in writing.
Good advice! I don’t trust Winz and avoid them if at all possible. A lot of people on IB are former ACC clients who were dumped onto a benefit. Meanwhile there is a deafening silence from mainstream disability organisations about this. Hoping to pick up future contracts I guess.
Beatie – We have an almost undeclared ‘strategic war’ by Minister Bennett and MSD against advocacy groups.
Those that have been working in advocacy for years know this, and they are confronted by this. Funding is stopped, or limited, or re-arranged, so some, like here in Auckland long running Mangere Budgeting Service had to dismiss staff, others are facing closure.
They are all over-burdened but get insufficient funds to do their jobs.
Budgeting services do now have to follow very restrictive operational rules, limiting them to just do what MSD want the to do, to tell beneficiaries to learn to live off the benefit – no matter what, as they will not get more. True advocacy is only possible by doing extra time and putting in extra effort, it is not paid for anymore.
And the disability advocates do (like many of the advocacy and budgeting services) also largely depend from direct or indirect state funding.
So they are kept in dependence, which means they do not dare to bite the hand that feeds them. Bennett and her Ministry have the upper hand, they know it, and they lay down the law as they please.
As there will be much out-sourcing of services, yes, some will be keen to look at what they can sign up for, to “assist” some sick and disabled into open employment, for nice fees that MSD is going to pay for them.
No surprise there, as that allows Bennett to go around and behave so “cocky” as she often comes across. She earns 5000 or more dollars a week, and she has long forgotten, where she once came from!
Until recently I was part of an advocacy organisation in my town. we were volunteers and we assisted people with Winz, Acc, employment and tenancy issues etc. There is a huge need out there for this sort of service.We got a trickle of funding because there is no CAB here. However that dried up and when we queried it we were accused of ‘biting the hand that feeds us’. Meanwhile organisations that say they do advocacy, but don’t got $1000’s. Also those of us on benefits were targeted by Winz because, if we could do voluntary work we could do paid work, couldn’t we? One of us (head injury, ex nurse) and particularly good at advocacy was moved from IB to SB because she pissed our local Winz workers off. There’s some nasty bastards out there.
I’m disclosing a lot of personal info here but I think that a lot of people are in real trouble out there and others don’t know/care/give a fuck.
Thanks beatie, it sounds like you have been through a lot, and you have certainly done the right thing by doing some advocacy for others.
Yes, I know, there are some mean jerks within WINZ, but then again some are also ok. In the end they are all public servants, and that means, they get instructions, and must follow them, or they will themselves get trouble for not doing so.
It is the chain of command, and the system keeps us all in some forms of chains of dominance and command.
That was also what enabled Hitler and the Nazis to do what they did, to exploit the fear of people to step out of line and not co-operate.
What WINZ do cannot be compared to that, but it is highly worrisome and increasingly inhumane, in some cases criminal. So at some stage civil disobedience should become the duty of those pushed too far to do things that just are not right.
Raising awareness here and elsewhere is a start to spread the truth about what is going on. Ideally more will wake up and raise their voice of disagreement and protest. That is what we must work for. We need people to ask themselves whether this is right, and come to the right conclusion, and then join us and take action.
“If you’re required to look for work, and from 15 July 2013 you turn down a suitable job without a good reason, your benefit will reduce by up to half (if you have dependent children) or stop (if you don’t have dependent children) for a 13-week period.”
An awful lot hangs on that phrase “without a good reason“.
Back in 1991 I was unemployed – perfectly timed to coincide with the benefit cuts and introduction of draconian rules just like this one. At the time there was a rule that if you turned down work (not just ‘a permanent job’) you had a strike against you. You had two strikes and then, next time, you had your benefit stopped (I think that was how it worked).
Well, I lined up for my weekly scouring of the jobs board and chat with the person processing us on the other side of the counter and was told that there were two days shallot picking/digging somewhere beyond the outskirts of Christchurch. It happened that I had been told a few days earlier that I had managed to get an interview for a professional job on the morning of the first day of shallot picking. I said this to the woman behind the counter. She said, deadpan, ‘So, you’re refusing work?’.
I tried to explain that I thought it was a good reason and it seemed crazy to insist I go for two days shallot picking and miss out on an interview for a very skilled job when there were plenty of others in the line who’d be keen to take the two days work. She wasn’t having any of it and seemed more intent on getting through the day in front of an endless line of unemployed people.
‘That’s one strike’ she said (or words to that effect). I left the office feeling like dirt and worried as hell at what they might do to me if something like that happened again. At that very moment I had written away and had in process over 40 applications for positions both in New Zealand and overseas. Part of me wanted to go back in, take the shallot picking and flag the interview – I didn’t want to risk losing what was a pretty meagre benefit because it was the only guaranteed income I had.
I was gobsmacked but stuck to my guns and went to the job interview. About a week later I ended up hearing that I got the job. In the meantime, I’d taken another ‘job’ picking apples and took the job offer call in the apple orchard office.
I’ve never forgotten that experience.
Who knows, maybe the woman I spoke to was applying the rules incorrectly and just thought I was a lazy, con-artist or something who was spinning her a line. Part of me still wants to believe that it couldn’t possibly be what was intended – counted as ‘refusing work’ because you had to go to a job interview.
Maybe just that the form said – agreed to do work offered – Yes … No and had no other option.
Government bureaucracies work like that, especially when they’ve just been gutted or restructured by bean counters and been told to find ways to work smarter to get through the same amount of work. Basic checklists soon abound on front desks to slash the time previously “wasted” applying rational thinking when the situation is even slightly more complex than the simple interactions the academically qualified policy designers or the contracted trainers envisaged.
This outwardly attractive person’s inability to form a coherent answer reminds me of David Shearer.
What is the difference between David Shearer and Miss Utah?
One is young, inexperienced and has plenty of time to develop skills.
The other is old, experienced and is incapable of developing skills now.
Unfortunately Stuff often self-promotes using images of young attractive women in that photo slot – sometimes it has more serious news items there, and sometimes images of young celebrity males, but young women are most often seen in that slot.
Now it is all coming out bit by bit. There are new revelations by the week now, if not by the day.
Edward Snowden, NSA intelligence staff member turned “whistle-blower”, in hiding in Hong Kong, has answered questions via the website of ‘The Guardian’:
AP have come out with a story, revealing that apparently PRISM is just the tip of the iceberg, when it comes to wide-scale internet and communications surveillance by US agencies:
“Deep in the oceans, hundreds of cables carry much of the world’s phone and Internet traffic. Since at least the early 1970s, the NSA has been tapping foreign cables. It doesn’t need permission. That’s its job.
But Internet data doesn’t care about borders. Send an email from Pakistan to Afghanistan and it might pass through a mail server in the United States, the same computer that handles messages to and from Americans. The NSA is prohibited from spying on Americans or anyone inside the United States. That’s the FBI’s job and it requires a warrant.
Despite that prohibition, shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, President George W. Bush secretly authorized the NSA to plug into the fiber optic cables that enter and leave the United States, knowing it would give the government unprecedented, warrantless access to Americans’ private conversations.”
Edward Snowden
They gave some of his comments on Radionz this morning. Sounds a cool guy. Hope you keep cool Edward. Don’t want you to be the Count of Monte Christo.
Yes, I would have thought that this failure would make important news on the msm yet TV3 news never has MRP share price on its half dozen listed prices it shows…I wonder why?
oooh Government books WILL NOT return to surplus in 2015; wait patiently till 2016 instead now.oooh.- RNZ
she’ll be coming round the mountain, she’ll be coming round the mountain, she’ll be coming round the mountain when she bombs. (I knew an old lady who swallowed a fly). 😀
Would be kind of good for us all to know what exactly is being surrendered in the TPPA negotiations, too. You know, the 1-2% doing on-the-quiet-selling-your-sovereignty-deals with the other 1-2% in the US.
Well no, I’m still interested in finding out who the leaker was in MFAT, but just not that interested. People needed to see what a thick prick McCully is. Public servants have endured years of bashing from the arsoles they have to work for. Its inevitable some will defend themselves and retaliate by whatever means available.
Public servants have endured years of bashing from the arsoles they have to work for. Its inevitable some will defend themselves and retaliate by whatever means available.
Can attest to that. I worked for a government agency that tried to rip off another government agency in the late 1980s and early 1990s. I had to put up with bullying and intimidation because they knew I had a few senior political contacts at that time and they were afraid I might spill the beans. In the end I did exactly that, and they had no-one but themselves to blame. A contract they were dead keen on getting signed ended up being scrapped. It served them right. Not surprisingly, that management didn’t last much longer…
But the details of the case were swiftly covered up and never the light of day.
Aye! Not to mention covering up financial mismanagement, lying, leaking cabinet papers, troughing, and generally thinking that quaint old code of conduct doesn’t apply to them.
Thankfully (as you suggest Anne), some of them eventually come a cropper
“The Auckland Council is talking up another one million residents in the city by 2041, but it is taking a prudent line when it comes to providing transport, water and other services.
The council has adopted a Statistics New Zealand’s high-growth scenario of a million more residents by 2041, but its water body is using a medium-growth scenario of 700,000 more residents.
The mismatch has raised questions, but council chief planning officer Dr Roger Blakeley says it is prudent to provide for the highest likely population growth and to be cautious to avoid over-investment.
………………..
Councillor Cameron Brewer has called for an independent review of the most likely population growth, saying the council’s projections are out of kilter with the Government’s national infrastructure unit’s mid-range projections. …..”
______________________________________________________________________________
STATEMENT BY 2013 AUCKLAND MAYORAL CANDIDATE PENNY BRIGHT:
Did YOU know that the following Petition 2011/64 has already been presented to the House?
Requesting that Parliament declines to proceed with the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill until the lawfulness of the reliance of Auckland Council on the New Zealand Department of Statistics’ “high”population growth projections, instead of their “medium” population growth projections for the Auckland Spatial Plan, has been properly and independently investigated, taking into consideration that both Auckland Transport and Watercare Services Ltd, have relied upon “medium” population growth projections for their infrastructural asset management plans.
Petition number: 2011/64
Presented by: Holly Walker
Date presented: 30 May 2013
Referred to: Social Services Committee
______________________________________________________________________________
This is an ‘Item of Business’ before the Social Services Select Committee.
The next meeting of the Social Services Select Committee, is scheduled for Wednesday 26 June 2013.
If YOU support this Petition, you can send an email / letter to this Select Committee, in the following way, using this as a guide:
(EMAIL TO THE CLERK OF THE SOCIAL SERVICES SELECT COMMITTEE : [email protected]
MAIL TO THE CLERK OF THE SOCIAL SERVICES SELECT COMMITTEE : Tracey Rayner
Private Bag 18041, Parliament Buildings, Wellington 6061 (No stamp required).
______________________________________________________________________________
To Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, Chair of the Social Services Select Committee.
RE: Petition 2011/64
Requesting that Parliament declines to proceed with the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill until the lawfulness of the reliance of Auckland Council on the New Zealand Department of Statistics’ “high” population growth projections, instead of their “medium” population growth projections for the Auckland Spatial Plan, has been properly and independently investigated, taking into consideration that both Auckland Transport and Watercare Services Ltd, have relied upon “medium” population growth projections for their infrastructural asset management plans.
I, the undersigned, request that you and ALL members of the Social Services Select Committee please support the investigation requested by this petition.
I am particularly concerned, that the LAW which covers the Auckland (Spatial) Plan, which the Auckland Draft Unitary Plan is supposed to help implement, appears to have not been followed:
(1)The Auckland Council must prepare and adopt a spatial plan for Auckland.
(4)The spatial plan must—
(c) provide an evidential base to support decision making for Auckland, including evidence of
trends,opportunities, and constraints within Auckland;
____________________________________________________________________________
The recommendation from the Department of Statistics, in their ‘customised’ advice to Auckland Council on 28 March 2011 – stated:
“Population Projections for the Auckland Spatial Plan
Development of the Auckland Spatial Plan requires that an evidential base is provided to support decision making for Auckland. Furthermore, it requires the identification of the existing and future location of residential activities within specific geographic areas within Auckland.
Population estimates and projections clearly form a good source of information for these purposes.
Statistics New Zealand were asked to produce customised population projections for a new growth model for Auckland. Under the medium series, this resulted in a projected population of 2,160,700 for 2041
(the low series projected 1,832,100 people and the high series projected 2,467,500 people).
Statistics New Zealand has been asked by the Auckland Council
“is a projected population for the Auckland region of approximately 2.1 million people a reasonable basis for planning?” While there is no certainty that the births, deaths and migration assumptions in the population projection will be realised, Statistics New Zealand agrees that a projected population of approximately 2.1 million at 2041 is a reasonable basis for planning at this point in time. We would reiterate that it is important to consider the range of projections, including the low and high scenarios. ..”
Why was this arguably ‘expert’ advice from the Department of Statistics apparently then ignored?
I look forward to your exercising ‘due diligence’ as a Members of Parliament for New Zealand, the ‘Highest Court in the Land’, and doing your part to ensure that ‘justice is done and been seen to be done’, and the ‘Rule of Law’ prevails.
NAME ADDRESS SIGNED
______________________________________________________________________________
If YOU want to sign something which ‘has teeth’ and can help make a difference to stop this Auckland ‘democracy for developers’ / ‘market madness’ – this, in my considered opinion – is IT.
Isn’t the agenda to get those up to a million extra “Aucklanders” into the city first, to get them sweating – while working hard, and to have them earn some money in a future, more “sweat-shop” like NZ economy, and pay taxes from that, and with that pay for the additional infrastructure?
That is what it seems to me.
It has been the agenda for decades, well probably from the day the first settlers came here, to bring in more, to create growth in a “primitive” way, by simply “growing the market” and labour pool by immigration, to justify all the great nice new projects the “leaders” of cities and central government like to talk about.
Once those additional people are here, oh my, ah well, we never expected that, we need yet more, to pay for the additional costs that “unexpectedly” arose in the meantime.
The ‘Hairdo’ makes a stand for His rehabilitation announcing today that He will not support the private members bill that would allow ‘scab labour’ to be used by employers to break strikes…
Addendum : the same google search gave this article in the Southland Times by Peter Cullen, Employment lawyer, on the Dunne situation vis a vis ownership of emails sent from employer’s sites.
Who me speculate!!! shame on me, heard it on the news on the car radio twelve oclock-ish, don’t ask me what the station was coz as far as the sounds in the car go i wouldn’t have a clue,(leaving myself wide open here),
Dunne was quoted as saying that He wouldn’t vote for it as such legislation was wide open to abuse from employers,
Who would have thunk it, Saint Peter seeks redemption in the court of public opinion and only scores a brownie point,
i wonder what the Maori Party(s) view is on this issue,(besides Pita worrying about the mortgage and Te Ureroa worrying about being leader that is)…
“And the cat’s in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man on the moon…” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tZmN7eHYFU
“But there were planes to catch and bills to pay.”
My ‘Open Letter /OIA request to Professor Sir Peter Gluckman :”Upon what ‘science’ are you relying to support fluoride in water?” should get a reply before 5pm, Wednesday 10 July 2013.
______________________________________________________________________________
Dear Penny
Thank you for your request under the Official Information Act 1982 dated 12 June 2013, which has been forwarded to me.
We will respond to your query as soon as is reasonably practicable within the 20 working days allowed,
(before 5pm 10 July 2013).
Yours sincerely
……………………………….
Communications Officer
Office of the Prime Minister’s Science Advisory Committee
PO Box 108-117, Symonds Street
Auckland 1150, New Zealand
_______________________________________________________
12 June 2013
‘Open Letter’ / OIA to Professor Sir Peter Gluckman from Auckland Mayoral candidate Penny Bright:
“Upon what ‘science’ are you relying to support fluoride in water?”
OFFICE OF THE PRIME MINISTER’S SCIENCE ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Professor Sir Peter Gluckman, KNZM FRSNZ FMedSci FRS
Chief Science Advisor
Dear Professor,
I read with interest your following ‘Media Release’:
“The science of fluoride in water is effectively settled. It has been one of the most thoroughly worked questions in public health science over many decades,” says Sir Peter Gluckman, the Prime Minister’s Chief Science Advisor.
In a statement released today on the issue of fluoride in public water supplies, Sir Peter reiterates the scientific facts, saying “it is absolutely clear that at doses used in New Zealand to adjust the natural level to one that is consistent with beneficial effects (0.7-1.0mg/litre), there is no health risk from fluoride in the water.”
So why is there any issue at all?
Sir Peter points to the importance of the values debate around fluoridation, but warns that this should not be misrepresented as a scientific debate. …”
“..chronic effects of fluoride involve alterations in the chemical activity of calcium by the fluoride ion. Natural calcium fluoride with low solubility and toxicity from ingestion is distinct from fully soluble toxic industrial fluorides …”
“Industrial fluoride ingested from treated water enters saliva at levels too low to affect dental caries. Blood levels during lifelong consumption can harm heart, bone, brain, and even developing teeth enamel.
The widespread policy known as water fluoridation is discussed in light of these findings. ….”
FYI – I have spent some hundreds of hours researching the decisions of the Ministry of Health and Watercare Services to use Waikato river water as a ‘raw’ source of drinking water supplies for the Auckland region.
I respectfully suggest that you read the following document which I prepared for a meeting of the Auckland City Council Finance and Business Committee back in October 2002, so that you can understand why a number of persons, such as myself, do NOT trust either the Ministry of Health, or Watercare Services Ltd, when it comes to safeguarding public health and drinking water supplies.
James Corbett on Margaret Sanger’s Planned Parenthood & Eugenics.
Dr. W.L. Hutton was the head medical officer of health in the first Canadian city to fluoridate their water supply. Dr. W.L. Hutton was the president of the eugenics society of Canada from 1930 – 1938 [he became Brantford’s head medical officer in 1937].
“Using the fluoride in the water supplies in their gulags (concentration camps), to make the prisoners stupid, docile, and subservient.”
Ref : The Crime and Punishment of I. G. Farben by Joseph Borkin
“At the end of the Second World War, the United States Government sent Charles Eliot Perkins, a research worker in chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology, to take charge of the vast Farben chemical plants in Germany. While there he was told of a scheme which had been worked out by them during the war and adopted by the German General Staff. This was to control the population in any given area through mass medication of drinking water. In this scheme sodium fluoride occupied a prominent place. Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual’s power to resist domination by slowly poisoning and narcotisizing a certain area of the brain and will thus make him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him. Both the Germans and the Russians added sodium fluoride to the drinking water of prisoners-of-war to make them stupid and docile.” (Reference: Victorian Hansard of 12th August 1987).
… as the fluoridation campaign gained steam, the Public Health Service was headed by another top Alcoa official, Oscar R. Ewing, who in turn was aided by Edward L. Bernays, the father of modern public relations and author of the book “Propaganda,” who sought to portray fluoride’s opponents as wackos.
In contrast to the anticipated increase in dental caries following the cessation of water fluoridation in the cities Chemnitz (formerly Karl-Marx-Stadt) and Plauen, a significant fall in caries prevalence was observed. This trend corresponded to the national caries decline and appeared to be a new population-wide phenomenon.
Our results show that biologically relevant concentrations of fluoride are capable of increasing cell migration in tumour cells, suggesting that exposure to fluoride could stimulate tumour invasion.
Note that the investigators noted altered cell migration behaviour at a level of just 2.4 micromol/L of human serum fluoride concentration.
This was a level several times less than what the investigators considered typical for persons “chronically exposed” to fluoridated water.
Every single chemical on the planet is dangerous at some level, from hydrogen to uranium. The entire point is that there is a dose-response relationship for good effects as well as bad. Were they talking about NZ fluoride levels creating actual harm? Experimental science dovetails with epidemiological evidence – just show the relevance of the article you provided to the discussion of fluoridation in NZ.
Science is a methodology. Scripture is unquestioned assertion. Basically, you’re now in the realm of creationists who say “the Theory of Evolution is just a theory”.
Edit: And I read your links more carefully than you did.
Nice how like any fundamentalist you like to judge and denigrate other peoples belief systems by your own specific orthodoxy’s unassailable criteria for truth and validity.
Yes you did read the links more carefully, good you have full access to those papers thanks for the extra info
EDIT
Science is a methodology.
It is far more than that, and sometimes it is not that at all.
Damned dirty trick I played, asking you to show how your randomly-selected article (butbutbut it contained the word “fluoride”) was at all relevant to the fluoridation levels used in NZ. /sarc
It’s actually really easy to understand: if fluoridation had negative effects at NZ levels, your tinfoil support sites would point to the studies that show it. Not some dime-doctor who says that’s what the studies say, they would link to the actual studies that show detectable harm from the 0.7-0.8ppm levels. We have seen detectable benefits linked to before in this debate, and the study you presented to say that maybe those benefits no longer apply was indeterminate and difficult to translate directly to NZ conditions (the entire “Berlin Wall and lifestyles” thing).
You want to call it mass-medication? Okay, then let’s go to “first, do no harm”. Where’s the harm?
EDIT
Science is a methodology.
It is far more than that, and sometimes it is not that at all.
well, that looked profound while saying fuck all.
I mean, you have the balls to accuse me of judging by unassailable criteria, but at least I don’t come up with pseudo-profundities like that.
You want to call it mass-medication? Okay, then let’s go to “first, do no harm”. Where’s the harm?
Where’s the harm? Nah fuck that mate. Instead, for starters, let’s go with consent to treat.
You don’t have it. The harm is in you taking away my ability to consent to take a medication or not take a medication. And I do not consent.
Where’s your medical bioethics now, hotshot? You gonna say that you know best and the patient should just follow doctors orders?
Except, Christchurch has just decided to turn down fluoridation yet again, and roughly half of NZers do not receive fluoridated water supply, Taranaki and Hamilton ditched it pretty recently, so whatever.
I mean, you have the balls to accuse me of judging by unassailable criteria, but at least I don’t come up with pseudo-profundities like that.
yeah, that’s what I already figured about the ethics of your compulsory mass medication programme.
awwww, you thought you’d learned how to support a scientific argument with actual evidence and now you’re just flailing about back in the familiar territory of making bioethical mountains out of trace-element molehills with a few semi-godwins thrown in.
Much as you like to call science a religious doctrine, the fact is that without at least a little bit of science you’d be singing the praises of “invisible good-teeth water magic”.
Anyway, I’m off to bed now. Remember to check under the bed for boogeymen and NSA bugs before you go sleepytime. And try to figure out the difference between “as low as” and “greatly increased from”.
oh that’s sweet, CV’s learning how to provide evidence.
If you’d looked beyond the abstract and read the article, you’d have read the confounding factors in East Germmany at the time:
O A greater utilisation of dental services. A large
number of subjects visited the dentist once per
year (90.7%) or at least once per half-year (50%);
a high FT-component (90%); a high proportion
of children with orthodontic treatment (47.9%);
387
O The adoption of a preventive approach by dental
practitioners. Fissure sealants were placed in
40.3% of subjects with 3.6 molars/person, combined
with F-topical and oral health instruction/
motivation;
O An increased use of F-toothpastes from 10–15%
(up to 1990) to 88% in 1993. Toothpaste consumption
in 1993–95: 4 to 5 tubes containing 75
mL/pCY½270–330 g/subject;
O Fluoridated salt became available after 1992;
market share in 1993–1995 ,15%;
O Ninety percent of all children receive vitamin D3
combined with NaF (0.25 mg F/die)½222 Mio
DDD (½Defined Daily Dose) for rickets prevention
during their first year of life;
O There was no longer any positive correlation between
annual sugar consumption and the caries
levels. The sugar consumption of 1993 was as
low as 1980–89 (35.1 to 40 kg/per capita/year)
and the availability of products with sugar substitutes
was increased (1993: 7795 tons);
O The pattern of food consumption changed due
to the introduction of Fast Food chains and possibly
increases in the presence of food preservatives
should also be considered;
O The provision of antibiotics for medical treatment
(463 Mio DDD) was twice as high as in
1985. Annual consumption of antibiotics in Germany
1995½2.160.601 dt½0.027 kg/per capita/
year.
And you might have even bothered to read the last line of the article, after the general discussion of the results and other studies (some with similar results):
From our point of view, water fluoridation would still seem to be reasonable in all heavily-populated industrial areas with high or increasing caries prevalence.
Didja see the bit about feeding babies sodium fluoride in their first year of life? And the massive increases in antibiotic use? Of course you did, because you didn’t just rely on the abstract, did you…
The German government massively resourced their people to improve dental care, made sure fluoridated toothpastes and salt were available, but as part of the dental health programme saw it fit to REMOVE mass water fluoridation.
Cheers mate.
you’d have read the confounding factors in East Germmany
Yeah I think you’re the one “confounded”.
EDIT you might want to explain to me how Vit D for rickets and antibiotics for all reasons plus greatly increased fast food and sugar intake is supposed to help with the incidence of dental caries across the entire population?
Further, greater use of dental care and surveillance should mean an increase in caries found, not a decrease.
btw I am for the availability of fluoridated salt, milk and topical toothpastes in retail stores.
From our point of view, water fluoridation would still seem to be reasonable in all heavily-populated industrial areas with high or increasing caries prevalence.
Hey I could agree with that mate. But the researchers conclude fluoridation is NOT REASONABLE for areas with lower or decreasing caries prevalence.
oh, but you’re the scientific researcher, even if you might not know what a confounding factor is. You’d know all about things like oral antibiotics interacting with oral bacteria (maybe even the ones that cause tooth decay).
plus greatly increased […] sugar intake
awwww, you mixed up “The sugar consumption of 1993 was as
low as 1980–89″ with “The sugar consumption of 1993 was greatly increased from 1980–89″. You gotta start reading what’s written, rather than what you agree with.
Further, greater use of dental care and surveillance should mean an increase in caries found, not a decrease.
Because all a dentist does is put fillings in and count caries, nothing else at all /sarc
Oh McFlock, look how much effort the new German government put into improving dental care yet they yanked water fluoridation preferring to use fluoridated toothpaste and salt instead.
This is a policy that they continue to this day, 20 years on.
And once again thank you for the researchers’ conclusion from the paper:
From our point of view, water fluoridation would still seem to be reasonable in all heavily-populated industrial areas with high or increasing caries prevalence.
But, as I said before, the researchers conclude fluoridation is NOT REASONABLE for areas with lower or decreasing caries prevalence.
“reasonable for areas with high or increasing caries prevalence”
does not equal
“NOT REASONABLE for areas with lower or decreasing caries prevalence”,
but it does equal
“NO COMMENT ON areas with lower AND decreasing caries prevalence”.
As for “the germans did it so we can” argument, well – that’s pretty stupid.
“EDIT you might want to explain to me how Vit D for rickets and antibiotics for all reasons plus greatly increased fast food and sugar intake is supposed to help with the incidence of dental caries across the entire population?”
Vitamin D affects calcium metabolism (amongst many other things), and is necessary for bone health (and probably dental health). I would expect that increases in antibiotic use would have a negative effect on dental health due to poorer absorption of nutrients.
Anyways, the list of confounding factors just points to we probably have no idea what is really going on (which was the point at the end of the abstract, for those of us not lucky enough to access to the full article).
If this F stuff was simply added to some brands of toothpaste and salt and milk, and I could choose to have it or not, fine. Put it out there.
But since people insist that you need to mass medicate everyone with it in all areas of the country all the time in all their food and drink, I think that a far higher standard is needed. (By the way, I’m about to go brush my teeth with a tube of Colgate Total, so I’m not a fundamentalist about this stuff)
And what I do know is that Germany yanked water fluoridation after unification, despite taking great pains to ensure that dental care in East Germany was improved, and has kept it that way for the last 20+ years.
Well I get enough F from toothpaste (and there the action is mostly topical anyways); I don’t also compulsarily need it in all the food that I buy, all the meals I make and all the drink I consume.
one can empathise, regrettably, with the position of the NRA sometimes; the only thing these Authoritarian pricks seem to understand is the barrel of gun.Seen any good movies lately? like Death Race?.
Nope, haven’t seen Death Race. America has arrived at the robocop corporate government & policing style though. I see no prospect of Americans giving up their guns. They really should be concerned. I read somewhere recently there are 14 separate state security organisations there now, not including the countless military and security contractors. Eisenhower would be incredulous.
Yes, about time, that this gets raised again, and looked at closely again! It all kind of went under the radar again, after Minister Collins took over the files and promised to have her staff look into things, when the scandal broke and become public last year.
John Campbell did invite other ACC claimants that had similar experiences to contact them. So more is likely to come.
How bloody disgusting, them putting pressure on a man who lost one arm, to go and look for work, even in a car-yard. And also expecting a woman with serious back pain, due to serious damage, to work full-time, when she cannot and is not ready for that.
Nothing has changed, really!
I wish Campbell and his team would also open their eyes and ears and examine WINZ designated doctor recommendations, decisions by WINZ and their appallingly biased Principal Health Advisor Dr David Bratt, comparing benefit dependence to drug dependence.
Completed reads for June: 4.50 from Paddington, by Agatha ChristieNarrations, by CononThe Vampire (poem), by Rudyard KiplingProgress and Poverty, by Henry GeorgeA Modest Proposal, by Jonathan SwiftThe Horla, by Guy de MaupassantSupernatural Horror in Literature, by H.P. LovecraftTowards Zero, by Agatha ChristieHickory Dickory Death, by Agatha ChristieThe Lady of ...
Looking into a distant mirror The academic publishing process is notoriously stately. Events in the rest of the world happen at their own swift pace as a given article makes its way through the publication pipeline. In the case of Russian climate scepticism: an understudied case, authors Teresa Ashe & Marianna Poberezhskaya submitted their work ...
A ballot for one member's bill was held today, and the following bills were drawn: Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Harm Minimisation) Amendment Bill (Chlöe Swarbrick) Swarbrick's bill implements a number of past recommendations from government agencies and advisory bodies which for some reason (cough big booze ...
No Common Ground: The destructive and punitive impulses aroused by the abortion issue make a rational, let alone a civil, debate virtually impossible. Indeed, the very idea that those on both sides of the abortion issue might be decent and caring individuals, whose opposing positions are based on reasonable and ...
What Happened Next? After the Supreme Court of the United States, in 1954, overturned its earlier validation of “separate but equal” schools, hospitals, public washrooms, busses and trains for Blacks and Whites, and told the Topeka Board of Education that segregated education is in breach of the Fourteenth Amendment of ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Neha Pathak When spring creeps around the corner, pediatrician Aaron Bernstein starts counseling his Boston-area patients and their families about extreme heat action plans. “The first heat wave of the year is routinely the most harmful,” says Bernstein, who also directs Harvard’s ...
On 7 December 1941, Imperial Japan launched a war on the American people. It would forever become a date of infamy, said then US President, Franklin D. Roosevelt, eightyone years ago.On 24/25 June 2022, conservatives launched their war on 166.24 million American women. That date, also, will forever live on ...
Stuff has a story this morning about the police juking the domestic violence stats, downgrading family violence crimes to "incidents" so they don't have to be investigated (and so Bad Number doesn't Go Up). That's appalling in and of itself, for the human consequences, and for what it says about ...
Today is a Member's Day, and it looks like its back to local legislation for a while. First up is the committee stage of the highly controversial Canterbury Regional Council (Ngāi Tahu Representation) Bill, which would allow unelected appointees (and a disproportionate number of them, at that) on ECan. This ...
Despite Christopher Luxon’s assurances to the contrary, there is no such thing as “settled law” in New Zealand. Apart from the six provisions that are constitutionally entrenched, legislation can always be amended or overturned by a simple majority vote within our single chamber of Parliament. Luxon’s repeated use of the ...
This is a re-post from the Thinking is Power website maintained by Melanie Trecek-King where she regularly writes about many aspects of critical thinking in an effort to provide accessible and engaging critical thinking information to the general public. Please see this overview to find links to other reposts from Thinking is Power. ...
What a week, month even of deplorable headlines and hysterics we’ve had as a country – and given 2023 is closing in on us (a mere 6 months until Parties shift some gears into election mode really, not that some of them haven’t started already of course), we need ...
Over the weekend, the US Supreme Court followed through on its threat, and overturned Roe v. Wade, effectively outlawing abortion in much of the United States. People were outraged, in America and around the world. And in Aotearoa, this meant a lot of sudden questions for the National Party, which ...
Nothing is evil in the beginning… #TheRingsOfPowerpic.twitter.com/XffZtqp8Yw— The Lord of the Rings on Prime (@LOTRonPrime) June 27, 2022 We have ourselves a new breadcrumb (not a leak!) out of The Rings of Power. It is a fifteen second collection of clips from the original teaser-trailer, together ...
The repeal of Roe vs Wade by the US Supreme Court is part of a broader “New Conservative” agenda financed by reactionary billionaires like Peter Thiel, Elon Mush, the Kochs and Murdochs (and others), organised by agitators like Steve Bannon and Rodger Stone and legally weaponised by Conservative (often Catholic) ...
A Dangerous Leap Backwards: A United States forced to live by the beliefs and values of the Eighteenth and Nineteenth Centuries cannot hope to go on leading the “Free World”, or compete economically with nations focused fearlessly on the future. The revocation of Roe v. Wade represents the American republic’s most ...
Now that the right of US women to abortion (formerly protected by Roe vWade) has been abolished, the important role of medication-induced abortion will come even more to the fore. Already, research by the Guttmacher Institute reproductive rights centre shows that over half of US abortions are obtained ...
The government is finally moving to improve transparency over party finances, lowering the donation disclosure threshold to $5,000. This is a good move, though it doesn't go as far as it should. And of course, there's a nasty twist: The rules for larger donations are also changing. Presently parties ...
A rare exposure in Western media of the fact that many residents of the Donbass prefer Russian rule to Ukrainian ultranationalist rule. I don’t know why anyone would take advice from UK’s lame duck Prime Minister and well-known buffoon Boris Johnson seriously, but he ...
Jacinda Ardern will need to deploy every aspect of her starpower if she is to have any hope of rescuing New Zealand’s faltering free trade negotiations with the European Union (EU). The Prime Minister has branded each of her four foreign trips so far this year as ‘trade missions’ – ...
It was sometime in the late 1990s that I first interviewed Alan Webster about New Zealand’s part in a global Values Study. It’s a fascinating snapshot of values in countries all over the world and I still remember seeing America grouped with many developing countries on a spectrum that had ...
Today marks Matariki, the first “new” New Zealand public holiday since Waitangi Day was added in 1974. Officially the start of the Maori New Year, this is one of those moveable beasties – much like Easter, the dates will vary from year to year, anywhere from mid-June to ...
The takeaways from the just released data are:1. Any estimate of GDP is subject to error.2. The 0.2 percent decrease in the March 2022 quarter is not precise and will be revised, with the mild likelihood that it will eventually be higher.3. New Zealand has no ‘official' definition of a ...
Guided By The Stars? This gift of Matariki, then, what will be made of it? Can a people spiritually unconnected to anything other than their digital devices truly appreciate the relentless progress of gods and heroes across the heavens? The elders of Maoridom must wonder. Can Te Ao Māori be ...
The internet is a wonderful thing sometimes. Yesterday, I ran across an AI program that generates images via prompt: https://huggingface.co/spaces/dalle-mini/dalle-mini So I have been doing the logical thing with it. Getting it to generate Silmarillion characters in bizarre situations. Morgoth playing golf, and so forth. But one thing I ...
Stashing renewable energy Do a little internet sleuthing on renewable energy via your favorite search engine and you'll find some honest critique and much more dishonest misinformation (aka disinformation) to the effect that photovoltaic and wind generation are fickle energy supplies, over-abundant in some periods and absent in others. There's ...
The current New Zealand First Foundation trial in the High Court continues to show why reform is required when it comes to money in politics. The juicy details coming out each day show private wealth being funnelled into some peculiar schemes in an attempt to circumvent the Electoral Act. Yet ...
As in so many other areas of public policy, attitudes towards overseas investment in New Zealand – and anywhere, for that matter – boil down in the end to ideology. For proponents of the “free market”, there is really no issue. The market, in their view, must never be second-guessed; ...
Selwyn Manning and I discussed the upcoming NATO Leader’s summit (to which NZ Prime Minister Ardern is invited), the rival BRICS Leader’s summit and what they could mean for the Ruso-Ukrainian Wa and beyond. ...
New Zealand’s Most Profitable“Friend” Dangerous “Threat”: This country’s “Five Eyes” partners, heedless of the economic consequences for New Zealand, have cajoled and bullied its political class into becoming Sinophobes. They simply do not care that close to 40 percent of this country’s trade is with China. As far as Washington, London, ...
I have seen some natter around about how The Rings of Power represents the undue and unholy corporatisation of J.R.R. Tolkien. I won’t point out examples, but anyone who has seen YouTube commentary has a pretty good grasp of what I am talking about – the sentiment that ...
2017’s Queenmaker: Five years ago, Winston Peters’ choice ran counter to New Zealand’s informal, No. 8 wire, post-MMP constitution, which, up until 2017, had decreed that the party with the most votes got to supply the next prime minister. Had National not been in power for the previous 9 years, it ...
I've read some bad stuff about long covid recently, and Marc Daalder's recent Newsroom piece about what endemic covid means for Aotearoa got me wondering about whether the government was thinking about it. Mass-disability due to long covid has obvious implications for health and welfare spending, as well as for ...
Last year, a stranded kiwi criticised the MIQ system. Covid Minister Chris Hipkins responded by doxxing and defaming her. Now, he's been forced to apologise for that: Minister Chris Hipkins has admitted he released incorrect and personal information about journalist Charlotte Bellis, after she criticised the managed isolation system. ...
Gil-galad is an Elven Chad Gil-galad is an Elven Chad But Celebrimbor makes them mad Digesting leaks from Amazon Of Isildur and Pharazôn. The hair is short? The knives are keen. The beardless face of Dwarven Queen? With meteor and man-not-named The fandom temper is inflamed. Of Annatar ...
From the desk of Keir "Patriotic Duty" Starmer:“We have robust lines. We do not want to see these strikes to go ahead with the resulting disruption to the public. The government have failed to engage in any negotiations.“However, we also must show leadership and to that end, please be reminded ...
Has swapping Scott Morrison for Anthony Albanese made any discernible difference to Australia’s relations with the US, China, the Pacific and New Zealand ? Not so far. For example: Albanese has asked for more time to “consider” his response to New Zealand’s long running complaints about the so called “501” ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections The Biden administration in April 2021 dramatically ratcheted up the country’s greenhouse gas emissions reductions pledge under the Paris target, also known as its Nationally Determined Contribution (NDC). The Obama administration in 2014 had announced a commitment to cut U.S. emissions 26-28% below 2005 levels ...
Something I missed: the Central African Republic has abolished the death penalty: The National Assembly of the Central African Republic (CAR) passed a law abolishing the death penalty in the CAR on May 27, 2022. Once CAR President Touadéra promulgates the bill, the CAR will become the 24th abolitionist ...
Walking On Sunshine: National’s Sam Uffindell cantered home in the Tauranga By-Election, but the Outdoors & Freedom Party’s Sue Grey attracted an ominous level of support.THE RIGHT’S gadfly commentator, Matthew Hooton, summed up the Tauranga by-election in his usual pithy fashion. “Tonight’s result is poor for the National Party, catastrophic for ...
Te reo Māori is Dr. Anaha Hiini’s life purpose. Raised by his grandparents, Kepa and Maata Hiini, Anaha of Ngāti Tarāwhai, Tūhourangi, Ngāti Whakaue descent made a promise at the age of six to his late grandmother, Maata Hiini. “I’ve always had a passion for Māori culture. My first inspiration ...
Dr Carwyn Jones’ vision is to see Te Tiriti o Waitangi and the law given equal mana. Carwyn who holds a PhD in law and society and currently teaches Ahunga Tikanga (Māori Laws and Philosophy) at Te Wānanga o Raukawa after 15 years at Victoria University of Wellington has devoted ...
Jacinda Ardern’s decision to attend the upcoming North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) summit in Spain – but to skip the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM) in Rwanda – symbolises the changes she is making to New Zealand foreign policy. The Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM) starts today in ...
The outlook does not look that promising. Forecasting an economy is a mug’s game. The database on which the forecasts are founded is incomplete, out-of-date, and subject to errors, some of which will be revised after the forecasts are published. (No wonder weather-forecasting is easier.) One often has to adopt ...
by Don Franks It seems that almost each day now another ram raid shatters someone’s shop front and loots the premises. Prestigious Queen street is not immune, while attacks on small dairies have long stopped being headline news. Those of us not directly affected are becoming numbed to this form ...
It’s hard to believe that when we created Sciblogs in 2009, the iPhone was only two years old, being a ‘Youtuber’ wasn’t really a thing and Instagram, Snapchat and TikTok didn’t exist. But Science blogging was a big thing, particularly in the United States, where a number of scientists had ...
For 13 years, Sciblogs has been a staple in New Zealand’s science-writing landscape. Our bloggers have written about a vast variety of topics from climate change to covid, and from nanotechnology to household gadgets.But sadly, it’s time to close shop. Sciblogs will be shutting down on 30 June.When ...
Radical Options: By allocating the Broadcasting portfolio to the irrepressible, occasionally truculent, leader of Labour’s Māori caucus, Willie Jackson, the Prime Minister has, at the very least, confirmed that her appointment of Kiri Allan was no one-off. There are many words that could be used to describe Ardern’s placement of ...
A Delicate Juggler? The new Chief Censor, Ms Caroline Flora, owes New Zealand a comprehensive explanation of how she sees, and how she proposes to carry out, her role. Where, for example, is her duty to respect and protect the citizen’s right to freedom of expression positioned in relation to ...
Good grief. Has foreign policy commentary really devolved to the point where our diplomatic effort is being measured by how many overseas trips have been taken by our Foreign Minister? Weird, but apparently so. All this week, a series of media policy wonks have been invidiously comparing how many trips ...
Where we've been Time flies. This coming summer will mark 15 years of Skeptical Science focusing its effort on "traditional" climate science denial. Leaving aside frivolities, we've devoted most of our effort to combatting "serious" denial falling into a handful of broad categories of fairly crisp misconceptions: "radiative physics is wrong,""geophysics is ...
Mercenary army of bogus skeptics on parade Because they're both squarely centered in the Skeptical Science wheelhouse, this week we're highlighting two articles from our government and NGO section, where we collect high-quality articles not originating in academic research but featuring many of the important attributes of journal publications. Our mission ...
In the latest episode of AVFA Selwyn Manning and I discuss the evolution of Latin American politics and macroeconomic policy since the 1970s as well as US-Latin American relations during that time period. We use recent elections and the 2022 Summit of the Americas as anchor points. ...
The Scottish government has announced plans for another independence referendum: Nicola Sturgeon plans to hold a second referendum on Scottish independence in October next year if her government secures the legal approval to stage it. Angus Robertson, the Scottish government’s constitution secretary, said that provided ample time to pass ...
So far, the closer military relationship envisaged by Jacinda Ardern and Joseph Biden at their recent White House meeting has been analysed mainly in terms of what this means for our supposedly “independent” foreign policy. Not much attention has been paid to what having more interoperable defence forces might mean ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Jeff Masters For those puzzling over the various hurricane computer forecast models to figure out which one to believe, the best answer is: Don’t believe any of them. Put your trust in the National Hurricane Center, or NHC, forecast. Although an individual ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Scott Denning The excellent Julia Steinberger essay posted at this site in May provides a disturbing window into the psychology of teaching climate change to young people. It’s critically important to talk with youth about hard topics: love and sex, deadly contagion, school shootings, vicious ...
By Imogen Foote (Te Herenga Waka – Victoria University of Wellington) A lack of consensus among international conservation regimes regarding albatross taxonomy makes management of these ocean roaming birds tricky. My PhD research aims to generate whole genome data for some of our most threatened albatrosses in a first attempt ...
Well, if that’s “minor” I’d be interested to see what a major reshuffle looks like.Jacinda Ardern has reminded New Zealand of the steel behind the spin in her cabinet refresh announced today. While the Prime Minister stressed that the changes were “triggered” by Kris Faafoi and Trevor Mallard and their ...
A company gives a large amount of money to a political party because they are concerned about law changes which might affect their business model. And lo and behold, the changes are dumped, and a special exemption written into the law to protect them. Its the sort of thing we ...
Active Shooters: With more than two dozen gang-related drive-by shootings dominating (entirely justifiably) the headlines of the past few weeks, there would be something amiss with our democracy if at least one major political party did not raise the issues of law and order in the most aggressive fashion. (Photo ...
Going Down? Governments also suffer in recessions and depressions – just like their citizens. Slowing economic activity means fewer companies making profits, fewer people in paid employment, fewer dollars being spent, and much less revenue being collected. With its own “income” shrinking, the instinct of most government’s is to sharply ...
In the 50 years since Norm Kirk first promised to take the bikes off the bikies, our politicians have tried again and again to win votes by promising to crack down on gangs. Canterbury University academic Jarrod Gilbert (an expert on New Zealand’s gang culture) recently gave chapter and verse ...
Misdirection: New Zealanders see burly gang members, decked out in their patches, sitting astride their deafening motorcycles, cruising six abreast down the motorway as frightened civilians scramble to get out of their way, and they think these guys are the problem. Fact is, these guys represent little more than the misdirection ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to announce its support urgently for a moratorium on deep sea mining under the high seas, after Pacific nations joined forces this week to demand change. ...
We’re committed to ensuring that there is every opportunity for women and girls to succeed in Aotearoa New Zealand, with fewer barriers. Since coming into Government, we’ve worked hard to support women and girls, by improving services like healthcare and tackling issues like the gender pay gap. Here are just ...
Political pressure from the Green Party has pushed the Government to supply free masks to kids and teachers in schools across Aotearoa New Zealand. ...
The Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand and the European Greens have published a joint statement calling for the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement to support climate action, phase out fossil fuel subsidies, cut agriculture emissions, protect human rights, and uphold Te Tiriti o Waitangi. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to guarantee that it will complete light rail and improve walking, cycling, and bus journeys across Wellington before digging new high-carbon tunnels. ...
The Green Party is urging Oceans and Fisheries Minister David Parker to commit to stronger ocean protection around Aotearoa and on the high seas while at the United Nations Oceans Conference in Portugal this week. ...
A strong Green voice in Parliament has helped reduce the influence large secret money will have in future elections and finally ensured overseas New Zealanders will retain the right to vote even while stranded by the Pandemic. But, the Government needs to go further to ensure our democracy works for ...
A new poll shows that the majority of people back the Greens’ call on the Government to overhaul the country’s criminally punitive, anti-evidence drug law. ...
The US Supreme Court’s decision on abortion is a reminder that we must take nothing for granted in Aotearoa, the Green Party says. “Aotearoa should be a place where everyone, no matter where they are from, or who they love, can choose what is right for their body and their ...
We’re proud to have delivered on our election commitment to establish a public holiday to celebrate Matariki. For the first time this year, New Zealanders will have the chance to enjoy a mid-winter holiday that is uniquely our own. ...
Proposed new legislation to reduce the risk that timber imported into Aotearoa New Zealand is sourced from illegal logging is a positive first step but it should go further, the Green Party says. ...
On World Refugee Day, the Green Party is calling on the new Minister for Immigration, Michael Wood to make up for the support that was not provided to people forced to leave their home countries during the COVID-19 pandemic. ...
This week, we’ve marked a major milestone in our school upgrade programme. We've supported 4,500 projects across the country for schools to upgrade classrooms, sports facilities, playgrounds and more, so Kiwi kids have the best possible environments to learn in. ...
We’ve delivered on our election commitment to make Matariki a public holiday. For the first time this year, all New Zealanders will have the chance to enjoy a mid-winter holiday that is uniquely our own with family and friends. Try our quiz below, then challenge your whānau! To celebrate, we’ve ...
The Green Party says the removal of pre-departure testing for arrivals into New Zealand means the Government must step up domestic measures to protect communities most at risk. ...
The long overdue resumption of the Pacific Access Category and Samoan Quota must be followed by an overhaul of the Recognised Seasonal Employers (RSE) scheme, says the Green Party. ...
Lessons must be learned from the Government's response to the Delta outbreak, which the Ministry of Health confirmed today left Māori, Pacific, and disabled communities at greater risk. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to withdraw the proposed Oranga Tamariki oversight legislation which strips away independence and fails to put children at the heart. ...
European Commission President von der Leyen and Prime Minister of New Zealand Ardern met in Brussels on 30 June 2022. The encounter provided an opportunity to reaffirm that the European Union and Aotearoa New Zealand are longstanding partners with shared democratic values and interests, aligned positions on key international and ...
Export revenue to the EU to grow by up to $1.8 billion annually on full implementation. Duty-free access on 97% of New Zealand’s current exports to the EU; with over 91% being removed the day the FTA comes into force. NZ exporters set to save approx. $110 million per annum ...
57,000 EVs and Hybrid registered in first year of clean car scheme, 56% increase on previous year EVs and Non Plug-in Hybrids made up 20% of new passenger car sales in March/April 2022 The Government’s Clean Car Discount Scheme has been a success, with more than 57,000 light-electric and ...
Police Minister Chris Hipkins congratulates the newest Police wing – wing 355 – which graduated today in Porirua. “These 70 new constables heading for the frontline bring the total number of new officers since Labour took office to 3,303 and is the latest mark of our commitment to the Police ...
Members with a range of governance, financial and technical skills have been appointed to the Reserve Bank Board as part of the shift to strengthen the Bank’s decision-making and accountability arrangements. The Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act 2021 comes into force on 1 July 2022, with the establishment of ...
New Zealand to remain at Orange as case numbers start to creep up 50 child-size masks made available to every year 4-7 student in New Zealand 20,000-30,000 masks provided a week to all other students and school staff Extra funding to schools and early childhood services to supports better ...
Aotearoa New Zealand will join Ukraine’s case against Russia at the International Court of Justice (ICJ), which challenges Russia’s spurious attempt to justify its invasion under international law. Ukraine filed a case at the ICJ in February arguing Russia has falsely claimed genocide had occurred in Luhansk and Donetsk regions, as ...
The Government has taken another step forward in its work to eliminate family violence and sexual violence with the announcement today of a new Tangata Whenua Ministerial Advisory Group. A team of 11 experts in whānau Māori wellbeing will provide the Government independent advice on shaping family violence and sexual ...
Te Mahere Whai Mahi Wāhine: Women’s Employment Action Plan was launched today by Minister for Women Jan Tinetti – with the goal of ensuring New Zealand is a great place for women to work. “This Government is committed to improving women’s working lives. The current reality is that women have ...
The food and fibre sector acknowledged its people and leadership at last night’s 2022 Primary Industries Good Employer Awards, a time to celebrate their passion towards supporting employees by putting their health, welfare and wellbeing first,” Acting Minister of Agriculture Meka Whairiti said. “Award winners were selected from an extraordinary ...
Kia ora koutou katoa. It is a rare thing to have New Zealand represented at a NATO Summit. While we have worked together in theatres such as Afghanistan, and have been partners for just on a decade, today represents an important moment for our Pacific nation. New Zealand is ...
Te Arataki mō te Hauora Ngākau mō ngā Mōrehu a Tū me ō rātou Whānau, The Veteran, Family and Whānau Mental Health and Wellbeing Policy Framework “We ask a lot of those who serve in the military – and we ask a lot of the families and whānau who support ...
Associate Minister of Foreign Affairs Aupito William Sio has been appointed by the United Nations and Commonwealth as Aotearoa New Zealand’s advocacy champion for Small Island States. “Aotearoa New Zealand as a Pacific country is particularly focused on the interests of Pacific Small Island Developing States in our region. “This is a ...
An estimated 100,000 low income households will be eligible for increased support to pay their council rates, with changes to the rates rebate scheme taking effect from 1 July. Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta has announced increases to both the maximum value of the rates rebate, and the income threshold ...
A long-standing physical activity programme that focuses on outcomes for Maori has been expanded to four new regions with Government investment almost doubled to increase its reach. He Oranga Poutama is managed by a combination of hapū, iwi, hauora and regional providers. An increase in funding from $1.8 million ...
The Government is progressing a preferred option for LGWM which will see Wellington’s transport links strengthened with light rail from Wellington Station to Island Bay, a new tunnel through Mt Victoria for public transport, and walking and cycling, and upgrades to improve traffic flow at the Basin Reserve. “Where previous ...
To Provost Muniz, to the Organisers at the Instituto de Empresa buenas tardes and as we would say in New Zealand, kia ora kotou katoa. To colleagues from the State Department, from Academia, and Civil Society Groups, to all our distinguished guests - kia ora tatou katoa. It’s a pleasure ...
On June 28, 2022, a meeting took place in Madrid between the President of the Government of the Kingdom of Spain, Pedro Sánchez Pérez-Castejón, and the Prime Minister of New Zealand, Jacinda Ardern, who was visiting Spain to participate in the Summit of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization as one ...
A six-fold increase in the Aotearoa New Zealand-Spain working holiday scheme gives a huge boost to the number of young people who can live and work in each other’s countries, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says. Jacinda Ardern and Spanish President Pedro Sánchez Pérez-Castejón made the Working Holiday/Youth Mobility Scheme announcement ...
A significant barrier has been removed for people who want to stand in local government elections, with a change to the requirement to publish personal details in election advertising. The Associate Local Government Minister Kieran McAnulty has taken the Local Electoral (Advertising) Amendment Bill through its final stages in Parliament ...
New financial conduct scheme will ensure customers are treated fairly Banks, insurers and non-bank deposit takers to be licensed by the FMA in relation to their general conduct Sales incentives based on volume or value targets like bonuses for selling a certain number of financial products banned The Government ...
Legislation that bans major supermarkets from blocking their competitors’ access to land to set up new stores paves the way for greater competition in the sector, Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs Dr David Clark said. The new law is the first in a suite of measures the Government is ...
The Government has announced an end to the requirement for border workers and corrections staff to be fully vaccinated. This will come into place from 2 July 2022. 100 per cent of corrections staff in prisons, and as of 23 June 2022 97 per cent of active border workers were ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta has concluded a visit to Rwanda reaffirming Aotearoa New Zealand’s engagement in the Commonwealth and meeting with key counterparts. “I would like to thank President Kagame and the people of Rwanda for their manaakitanga and expert hosting of this important meeting,” Nanaia Mahuta said. “CHOGM ...
Minister for Emergency Management Kieran McAnulty officially launched the new Monitoring, Alerting and Reporting (MAR) Centre at the National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) today. The Government has stood up the centre in response to recommendations from the 2018 Ministerial Review following the 2016 Kaikoura earthquake and 2017 Port Hills fire, ...
Transport Minister Michael Wood has welcomed the announcement that a 110km/hr speed limit has been set for the SH1 Waikato Expressway, between Hampton Downs and Tamahere. “The Waikato Expressway is a key transport route for the Waikato region, connecting Auckland to the agricultural and business centres of the central North ...
Following feedback from the sector, Associate Minister of Education Jan Tinetti, today confirmed that new literacy and numeracy | te reo matatini me te pāngarau standards will be aligned with wider NCEA changes. “The education sector has asked for more time to put the literacy and numeracy | te reo ...
$4.5 million to provide Ukraine with additional non-lethal equipment and supplies such as medical kit for the Ukrainian Army Deployments extended for New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) intelligence, logistics and liaison officers in the UK, Germany, and Belgium Secondment of a senior New Zealand military officer to support International ...
Changes to electoral law announced by Justice Minister Kiri Allan today aim to support participation in parliamentary elections, and improve public trust and confidence in New Zealand’s electoral system. The changes are targeted at increasing transparency around political donations and loans and include requiring the disclosure of: donor identities for ...
The Labour government has announced a significant investment to prevent and minimise harm caused by gambling. “Gambling harm is a serious public health issue and can have a devastating effect on the wellbeing of individuals, whānau and communities. One in five New Zealanders will experience gambling harm in their lives, ...
The Government has widened access to free flu vaccines with an extra 800,000 New Zealanders eligible from this Friday, July 1 Children aged 3-12 years and people with serious mental health or addiction needs now eligible for free flu dose. From tomorrow (Tuesday), second COVID-19 booster available six months ...
The Government is investing to create new product categories and new international markets for our strong wool and is calling on Kiwi businesses and consumers to get behind the environmentally friendly fibre, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor said today. Wool Impact is a collaboration between the Government and sheep sector partners ...
At today’s commemoration of the start of the Korean War, Veterans Minister Meka Whaitiri has paid tribute to the service and sacrifice of our New Zealand veterans, their families and both nations. “It’s an honour to be with our Korean War veterans at Pukeahu National War Memorial Park to commemorate ...
Minister of Tourism Stuart Nash and Associate Minister of Tourism Peeni Henare announced the sixth round of recipients of the Government’s Tourism Infrastructure Fund (TIF), which supports local government to address tourism infrastructure needs. This TIF round will invest $15 million into projects around the country. For the first time, ...
Matariki tohu mate, rātou ki a rātou Matariki tohu ora, tātou ki a tātou Tīhei Matariki Matariki – remembering those who have passed Matariki – celebrating the present and future Salutations to Matariki I want to begin by thanking everyone who is here today, and in particular the Matariki ...
Oho mai ana te motu i te rangi nei ki te hararei tūmatanui motuhake tuatahi o Aotearoa, Te Rā Aro ki a Matariki, me te hono atu a te Pirīmia a Jacinda Ardern ki ngā mahi whakanui a te motu i tētahi huihuinga mō te Hautapu i te ata nei. ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister David Parker will represent Aotearoa New Zealand at the second United Nations (UN) Ocean Conference in Lisbon, Portugal, which runs from 27 June to 1 July. The Conference will take stock of progress and aims to galvanise further action towards Sustainable Development Goal (SDG) 14, to "conserve and sustainably use ...
The Government is boosting its partnership with New Zealand’s dairy sheep sector to help it lift its value and volume, and become an established primary industry, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor has announced. “Globally, the premium alternative dairy category is growing by about 20 percent a year. With New Zealand food ...
The Government is continuing to support the Buller district to recover from severe flooding over the past year, Minister for Emergency Management Kieran McAnulty announced today during a visit with the local leadership. An extra $10 million has been announced to fund an infrastructure recovery programme, bringing the total ...
“The Government has undertaken preparatory work to combat new and more dangerous variants of COVID-19,” COVID-19 Response Minister Dr Ayesha Verrall set out today. “This is about being ready to adapt our response, especially knowing that new variants will likely continue to appear. “We have undertaken a piece of work ...
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Buzz from the Beehive The Government has declared or reiterated three bold ambitions, one of them (the elimination of family violence) probably unachievable. Whether progress is being made towards the ...
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Accompanied by a giant albatross sculpture made of reclaimed plastic bottles, Greenpeace has delivered a 100,000-strong petition to parliament calling on the Government to ban single-use plastic bottles and incentivise reusable and refillable alternatives. ...
Covid-19 Response Minister Ayesha Verrall says the country needs to remain at the orange traffic light setting as case numbers are starting to "creep up". ...
Our Annual plan 2022/23 was presented to the House of Representatives today. This annual plan is a key accountability document for our Office. It describes the discretionary work we consider will help us to achieve our ultimate outcome – that Parliament ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Fitz-Gibbon, Director, Monash Gender and Family Violence Prevention Centre; Associate Professor of Criminology, Faculty of Arts, Monash University AAP Image/Supplied by Department of Justice In 2020 the killing of Hannah Clarke and her three children – Aaliyah, 6, Laianah, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mary Anne Kenny, Associate Professor, School of Law, Murdoch University The election of the Albanese Labor government brings an opportunity to end one of the most detrimental elements of Australian refugee law and policy in the past decade: the use of temporary ...
The New Zealand Council of Trade Unions has welcomed the launch of the Te Mahere Whai Mahi Wāhine: Women's Employment Action Plan today. For too long, women have been disadvantaged in the world of work. While many improvements have been made over ...
The experimental weekly series provides an early indicator of employment and labour market changes in a more timely manner than the monthly employment indicators series. Key facts The 6-day series includes jobs with a pay period equal to or less than ...
Statement from Auckland Transport Interim Chief Executive Mark Lambert: Auckland Transport is proud to support the New Statement of Ambition being launched tonight by the Climate Leaders Coalition. We’re delighted that AT’s work to achieve the ...
Greenpeace Aotearoa, SAFE, Animals Aotearoa, SPCA, and the New Zealand Animal Law Association have joined forces to call for an end to intensive winter grazing through the Government’s Dairy Cattle Code of Welfare review. The coalition says that as ...
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Russia's actions in Ukraine are an affront to the world but mustn't be allowed to create a more polarised, dangerous world, the prime minister says. ...
Russia's actions in Ukraine are an affront to the world but mustn't be allowed to create a more polarised, dangerous world, the prime minister says. ...
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Humbug Corner
No. 4: MIKE BUSH
“It’s always an honor to be asked to come and pay tribute to someone with a career as long and distinguished as Bruce’s…. integrity beyond reproach…. It’s a great tragedy and an irony that a man of such great character should have been subject to those accusations.”
—-Deputy Police Commissioner Mike Bush, speaking at funeral of notorious bent cop Bruce Hutton, April 10, 2013.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/national/news/video.cfm?c_id=1503075&gal_cid=1503075&gallery_id=132106
Humbug Corner is dedicated to gathering, and highlighting, the most striking examples of faux solicitude, insincere apologies, and particularly stupid recycling of official canards. It is produced by the Insincerity Project®, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.
More appalling humbug….
No. 3 Dean Lonergan: “Y’ know what? The only people who will mock them are people who are dwarfists.”
No. 2 Peter Dunne: “What a load of drivel and sanctimonious humbug…”
No.1 Dominic Bowden: “It’s okay to be speechless.” http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02062013/#comment-642288
LIARS OF OUR TIME
No. 22: Mike Bush
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
“…integrity beyond reproach….”
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Deputy Police Commissioner Mike Bush, eulogizing corrupt cop Bruce Hutton, found by a Royal Commission of Inquiry to have planted false evidence to frame an innocent man for a double murder.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/national/news/video.cfm?c_id=1503075&gal_cid=1503075&gallery_id=132106
See also….
No. 21 Tim Groser: “I think the relationship is genuinely in outstanding form.”
No. 20 John Key: “But if the question is do we use the United States or one of our other partners to circumvent New Zealand law then the answer is categorically no.”
No. 19 Matthew Hooton: “It is ridiculous to say that unions deliver higher wages! They DON’T!”
No. 18 Ant Strachan: “The All Blacks won the RWC 2011 because of outstanding defence!”
No. 17 Stephen Franks: “Peter has been such a level-headed, safe pair of hands.”
No. 16 Phil Kafcaloudes: “Tony Abbott…hasn’t made any mistakes over the past eighteen months.”
No. 15 Donald Rumsfeld: “I did not lie… Colin Powell did not lie.”
No. 14 Colin Powell: “a post-9/11 nexus between Iraq and terrorist organizations…connections are now emerging…”
No.13 Barack Obama: “Simply put, these strikes have saved lives.”
No. 12 U.K. Ministry of Defence: “Protecting the Afghan civilian population is one of ISAF and the UK’s top priorities.”
No. 11 Brendan O’Connor: “Australia’s approach to refugees is compassionate and generous.”
No. 10 Boris Johnson: “Londoners have… the best police in the world to look after us and keep us safe.”
No. 9 NewstalkZB PR dept: “News you NEED! Fast, fair, accurate!”
No. 8 Simon Bridges: “I don’t mean to duck the question….”
No. 7 Nigel Morrison: “Quite frankly, they’ve been VERY tough.”
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-15052013/#comment-633295
No. 6 NZ Herald PR dept: “Congratulations—you’re reading New Zealand’s best newspaper.”
No. 5 Rawdon Christie: “…a FORMIDABLE replacement, it seems, is Claudette Hauiti.” http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13052013/#comment-632594
No. 4 Willie and J.T.: “The X-Factor. Nah, nah, there’s some GREAT talent there!”
No. 3 John Key: “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”
No. 2 Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.”
No. 1 Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”
Amnesty’s skewed priorities
by zemblan and Joe Emersberger, Media Lens, 17.6.13
A revealing snippet from the Guardian‘s ‘Politics Live Blog’ on the G8 Summit:
3.15pm: ‘Amnesty International are being allowed through the gates of the summit to deliver a letter to Vladimir Putin. As Henry McDonald reports, they will tell the Russian President to release the punk protest band Pussy Riot, two of whom are still in jail. A number of Amnesty activists will wear balaclavas similar to the ones the band don when they go on stage.’
They apparently didn’t have the mental wherewithal to write a letter condemning the US government’s persecution of whistleblowers like Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden. Nor did they have the initiative to condemn the British government’s treatment of Julian Assange.
Amnesty gave jailed Pussy Riot members Prisoner of Conscience designation within about two months of their incarceration.
Manning has been jailed and tortued in broad daylight for years and Amnesty has said it has been “investigating” all these years if he really qualifies as a Prisoner of Conscience.
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1371483719.html
Sounds like more of the, staged *theatre news*, Mozza.
Amnesty Intl, simply part of the aparati, designed to subvert, and divert any chance of genuine movements, by creating a faux notion of *caring*.
Phooey!
so cynical muzza
http://bat-bean-beam.blogspot.co.nz/2013/06/the-jonathan-safran-foer-fallacy.html
Giovani Tiso’s latest.
It is political:
“With each generation, it becomes harder to imagine a future that resembles the present…”.
Teaser:
Not sure about texting being easier. It would be if I could convert speech to text but then I’d have to go to all the effort of searching for an app.
It is a crime to conceal a crime.
Can it also be a crime to reveal a crime?
Bradley, Assange, and Snowden are accused of revealing crimes committed by the world’s deadliest terrorist organization: the US military.
“The phrase “war on terrorism” should always be used in quotes, because there can’t possibly be a war on terrorism. It’s impossible. The reason is it’s led by one of the worst terrorist states in the world, in fact, it’s led by the only state in the world which has been condemned by the highest international authorities for international terrorism, namely the World Court and Security Council, except that the US vetoed the resolution.” Noam Chomsky
RIP Anti-racism dog @anti_racicm_dog.. nevermore will we hear your barking.
The account @Anti_Racism_Dog didn’t last long. Twitter suspended it quickly, a fate reserved only for the most aggressive, abusive and hateful users. What could a dog – an anti-racist one, at that – do to deserve it? @Anti_Racism_Dog had one real function: to bark at racist speech on Twitter. The account responded to tweets it deemed racist with the simple response ‘bark bark bark!’ Sometimes it would send wags to supporters but that was pretty much it.
For the short time it lasted, it was amazing to watch how people reacted to @Anti_Racism_Dog.
snip
Colour-blind racists feed on good-faith debate, and engaging with them, especially online, is almost always futile. But when they’re barked at by a dog, one whose only quality is anti-racism, they flip the fuck out. They demand to be engaged in debate (‘Tell me how what I said was racist!’) or appeal to objective definitions (‘The dictionary says racist means X, therefore nothing I said was racist’), but @Anti_Racism_Dog just barks.
#BringBackTheDog
http://redefiningbodyimage.tumblr.com/post/52750516768/writeswrongs-girljanitor-ghostdaddotcx
A true troll doesn’t have a position to protect because to establish one would leave it vulnerable to attack, and playing defence takes time. @Anti_Racism_Dog, by fully assuming the persona of an animal, was invulnerable to counter-attack. You can’t explain yourself to a dog and you look like an idiot trying. The only way to win is not to play but this is the colour-blind racist’s Achilles Heel: they’re compelled to defend themselves against accusations of racism. It’s the anti-racist argument that gives them content; theirs is an ideology that’s in large part a list of counter-arguments. After all, white-supremacists are already winning – their task now is to keep the same racist structures in place while making plausibly colour-blind arguments against dismantling them. @Anti_Racism_Dog was empty of anything other than accusation and so left its targets sputtering.
The account served a second purpose: as a sort of anti-racist hunting dog. @Anti_Racism_Dog quickly attracted a lot of like-minded followers who understood the dynamics at play. Whenever it would start barking at another user, this was a cue to the dog’s followers to troll the offender as well. There’s only so much one dog can do alone. Colour-blind racism is particularly dangerous because it isn’t immediately visible as such. It provokes good-faith discussion from liberals about what counts as racism, muddying the water. But @Anti_Racism_Dog’s strategy draws new lines about what constitutes acceptable discourse on race, placing colour-blind racists on the other side by speaking to them like an animal. What would be taken as totally insane in flesh space can be infuriatingly clever online.
Thanks Asleep – that dog deserves a pat.
Pity the Anti-Racism Dog wasn’t operating when “Sir” Paul Holmes (RIP) was churning out his racist filth in the Herald.
GRRRRRR….GRRRRRRRRRRUFF! RUFFF!! GRRRR…….RUFF!!RUFF!!RUFF!!GRRRRRR……
Too late now, felix—but impressive watchdogging, nonetheless.
Whatever happened to WOOF, the dog who used to comment here all the time?
Debarked – destination unknown.
Re the Media works receivership
How can the IRD be left out I though the IRD were first in line?
AND its westpac who put them into receivership and effectively screwing our IRD out of 22 million
Oh the IRD aren’t going to be taking this passively mate, don’t worry.
after that tip of a neopolitan iceberg for supper, interesting there is no article about those 4000 Troopers in todays Herald.
😈
Key’s reckons that tax debt is highly secured, but journos on twitter are suggesting he doesn’t know what he’s talking about:
https://mobile.twitter.com/MattNippert/status/346733463069675522?p=v
It’s the same thing Macleans IT did in auckland.
How much longer is the public going to continue to prop up Mediaworks? They consider themselves so independent but with this and NZOA funding they’re sucking on the taxpayer teat like a newborn rat.
Funny ain’t it? The same Nats who seem happy for the state to fund this private network also want to sell Radio NZ.
‘Cos, y’know, the state has no business owning a radio network etc etc.
Fucking joke is what it is.
How can the IRD be left out I though the IRD were first in line?
If the sale price is only for the amount owing to the banks and the purchaser then voluntarily agrees to pay all creditors except for IRD then it can happen.
There also are the issues of employment contracts, bonuses leave entitlements and howthese fall in the ranking of payments and the ability to transfers these to another entity.
then there are existing Nzoa grants to programms that are currently under production,( and I understand that many production coys are independent of the tv station that airs them ) there are many avenues that the greater “govt ” can withhold existing funding to media works,ability to transfer the broadcasting license.
There could also be potential of fraud as there under your scenario a scripted plan to defraud a or some creditors. I am sure that media works have some gifted lawyers that will protect the parent coy yet close investigation could find an t uncrossed or an I that is not doted. The govt has to be seen doing all it can against such a corporate that has displayed such contempt towards this country.
These are just a few random thoughts 😉
Brighter Future™, right this way please.
Seems normal to western society – try to sweep the problem under the carpet.
EDIT:
http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2013/06/17/details-of-claimants-commitments-emerge/
‘Jobcentre advisors will have unprecedented powers to compel claimants to carry out whatever old bollocks they can come up with to waste unemployed people’s time looking for jobs which aren’t there. Those who do not meet their Claimant Commitment could face having benefits stopped for up to three years. For those with children this could be devastating, for those severely unwell or disabled it could mean death.’
This is the UK model that Paula is following. I have severe rheumatoid arthritis and am on the invalid benefit, soon to become the ‘supported living payment’. I have so far managed to stymie attempts to move me to the sickness benefit, soon to be the jobseekers allowance. But I expect further harassment. I did not choose to have this disease which has cost me two careers, I can cope with living on less than $300 per week but I find it difficult to cope with the harassment from MSD and the ‘bludging beneficiary’ label. Since the Natz, a lot of Invalid beneficiaries have been dumped onto the Sickness Benefit ( a process started by Labour). Many of these people have psychiatric disabilities and stress is the last thing they need. But Johnny reckons he’ll have the welfare bill down regardless and Labour refuse to say different. Meanwhile we wait in fear…..
…one day at a time.
I am so sorry that you have to face this harassment beatie – it is a blight on our society that those who need help get treated the way you are – kia kaha. I can appreciate the fear you feel and the additional stress this is giving you and your family – what a terrible situation to be in for you – all the best.
Hi beatie and marty mars “I am so sorry that you have to face this harassment beatie”
Yes it is harassment re John Minto the government want to remove 100,000 off the benefit in the next 10 years:
“Government’s plan to push 100,000 off welfare with no job plan in place is shameful
“It’s shameful that the government is pressing ahead with this latest round of welfare changes”, says John Minto, Vice-President of the MANA Movement. “When the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill comes up in the House for its second reading later today there’s only one place it belongs – in the rubbish, because that’s how it treats people impacted by it –as rubbish.”
The bill marks the second big step in the wave of reforms initiated by Paula Bennett and Paula Rebstock back in 2010, all aimed at getting up to 100,000 beneficiaries off welfare in the next ten years.”
http://mana.net.nz/2013/03/governments-plan-to-push-100000-off-welfare-with-no-job-plan-in-place-is-shameful/
This government intends to fit beneficiaries onto a procrustian bed of shame and harassment and distress to save themselves money to give the rich more tax cuts and pay private organisations to do the dirty work like ATOS in the U$K. Shame on them. It’s to be an exercise in sadism to satisfy the propaganda they’ve been spewing for over a decade: People like Michael Laws. Atos in the U$K is a criminal harassment organisation funded by a criminal government that has caused the deaths of many people.
“In Greek mythology, Procrustes (Προκρούστης) or “the stretcher [who hammers out the metal]”, also known as Prokoptas or Damastes (Δαμαστής) “subduer”, was a rogue smith and bandit from Attica who physically attacked people by stretching them or cutting off their legs, so as to force them to fit the size of an iron bed. In general, when something is Procrustean, different lengths or sizes or properties are fitted to an arbitrary standard.”
beatie – Sorry to hear your distress and concerns.
Yes, I and a fair few others are equally worried, about what Bennett and her ‘Work and Insult” department will present to us from next month on. I have information that MSD (the Ministry) is already actively seeking requests for proposals for having mentally ill on benefits referred to outsourced service providers, who are supposed to get them into some kind of work.
It is all still in the process and kept from the public eye and ear, but they are wanting to commission agencies, who may be NGOs or employment agencies, to try placing mentally ill youth in Auckland at least into jobs, for which the providers will be offered “rewarding” fees.
WINZ will refer clients that are considered “fit” to do certain work to those providers, and naturally they will have expectations.
Nothing has been published about future assessments in detail, but looking at some policy documents that were released to the media a few months back, there are going to be various “tools” they will use, from self assessments, to targeted interviews with certain WINZ staff, up to the supposed “independent” examinations and assessments that may be done by medical staff, rehab staff or others they will select to do this.
It is scandalous that the government passed the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Act without informing the opposition parties and MPs, nor the public, about how they will decide who will be capable to do some work, and who not.
This is again a secret agenda, and I am sure, they will in future be much less transparent in anything they will do, as they got quite a scare when some took them on about unfair, unreasonable and not fact based recommendations by certain designated doctors and their health and disability advisors.
Yet from what I also hear, it seems they are going to tread more carefully than DWP have in the UK, because having people commit suicide, or harm themselves in other ways, that will not be the headlines Paula Bennett and John Key want here.
So be mindful, alert and prepared, but do not freak yourself out too much. In any case, prepare by already connecting with advocates, support networks and others, friends and family included, so when they come to challenge you, take witnesses to assessments and else.
At some stage there will likely be legal challenges on all what they will try, and I expect WINZ and MSD to breach natural justice in many cases. If people get together, pull resources and efforts together, and perhaps find a good lawyer, who may be prepared to take WINZ on, then something will be achieved.
Apart from all this: I am still furious that WINZ and MSD also always tell clients to use their websites, but it is hard to get to some of their offices, their kiosks and computers are often booked out, and the same applies to public libraries. Internet cafes cost money, so do home connections.
When do MSD and WINZ live up to the 21st century standards of communication and not only cover phone line costs for sick and disabled, but also internet access, I ask???!
Two-faced Bridges – tells Parliament one thing and does another.
Last week he told Parliament that he would be meeting with ILO officials in Geneva to discuss his employment law changes – but now he is in Geneva he is refusing to meet with them.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1306/S00299/simon-bridges-misleads-parliament.htm
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1306/S00216/minister-refuses-ilo-advice.htm
Ugh! The vomit inducing Bridges! He’s a lying sneaky rat, no different to his peers and should not be in the position he is in.
Perhaps he just can’t face the possibility of being scrutinised and held to account by the ILO. If he has a change a heart and does meet with the ILO maybe they can take up the issue of the 90 day bill while they’re at it. I had thought that the denial of access to legal representation in the case of a workplace personal grievance was against one of the ILO conventions. Not sure which number though. Does anyone know?
I also have rheumatoid arthritis. It is an incurable disease so how can you be taken off an invalid benefit onto sickness benefit. My understanding of invalids is that there is no chance of cure within 2 years and sickness benefit 6 months. Has this criteria changed? RA is a brutal, painful disease and the added stress of worrying about this must be terrible. Do you have an understanding doctor/rheumatologist. I feel for you. Good luck.
I went to my GP for a Winz medical cert and he gave me one for 3 months, he said if ‘I could drive, I could work’ and ‘I needed to consider paying back to society the cost of a recent joint replacement’ I’m not kidding! I asked my rheumatologist and he gave me one for 5 years. Now, I think you have to use a Winz ‘designated doctor’ who follows the ‘arbeit mact frei’ Winz line. The idea that the Invalid Benefit is for long-term/incurable illnesses was dismantled by the last Labour govt. I have a friend who has schizophrenia who is on the sickness/jobseeker allowance and will be harassed to find a job and sanctioned if they fail to comply. I think that most NZ’ers don’t have the faintest idea of how these ‘reforms’ will impact on those with a disability.
this is a really revealing account beatie.
I have a friend who has schizophrenia who is on the sickness/jobseeker allowance and will be harassed to find a job and sanctioned if they fail to comply. I think that most NZ’ers don’t have the faintest idea of how these ‘reforms’ will impact on those with a disability.
Harrassment and denigration. It seems that a great number of NZs always middle-class plus those who have moved up the income ladder with social aspirations, never accepted the idea of a social contract and concern for all. See David Bennett Mp comment elsewhere on TS today.
The stats may very well be that 10% of beneficiaries may be fraudulent, not doing their bit to help themselves and put into society, 10% find jobs which they can manage and live on and are probably helped into at the beginning. The rest are going to have this gang of harpies and witch-hunters after them. What a soul destroying job to have to work for WINZ. It’s likely to produce a resentment that as they have to suffer so they will pass it on.
Yep. Sounds like the story behind yesterday’s armed man in wheelchair incident in Auckland, as somebody speculated here might be the case before the perp was taken into custody.
beatie, I would suggest getting a different GP. Unless you are in a really small town, you should have a choice. You don’t have to put up with ideological bullying.
(I do live in a very small town with a doctor shortage, so changing is difficult. However I refuse to see him and see a locum if I need to. He instructed his office staff not to accept beneficiaries onto his books. Unfortunately this attitude underlies Winz welfare ‘reforms’. The chief medical advisor to Winz, Dr David Bratt, (appointed under Labour) believes that being on a benefit is worse than heroin addiction. Those who choose to believe that beneficiaries are rorting the system have no idea and are a huge part of the problem. Try getting on, staying on and surviving on a benefit before uttering such smug fallacies.
“He instructed his office staff not to accept beneficiaries onto his books.”
This is a breach of the Human Rights Act, for sure!!!
A doctor has no right and breaches also the Code of Ethics of the NZ medical profession, if he does this. I see the problem you may have to prove this, as his staff will not say what they have been told by him.
Document everything he does and says to you and perhaps others, and consider making a complaint to the Health and Disability Commissioner, even though that office is also rather useless in many ways.
A sad state of affairs there is, in especially the more rural areas of N.Z..
He is a wealthy South African immigrant and he owns his practice. His office worker came to our advocacy organisation with an employment complaint and she told us about the ‘no beneficiaries’ rule. He’s pissed off a lot of local people but so far got away with it. It’s difficult to prove these matters. Incidentally at least one of the local real-estate agents also has a ‘no beneficiaries’ policy. It’s difficult to keep these things quiet in a small town.
That is why the Devil made guns.
The devil made guns to give Americans the opportunity to obtain them to protect themselves from other Americans who obtain them and make everybody safer. I am reliably informed by sources in Iran that the devil is actually an American.
How far to the nearest other town with a GP beatie? I think you definitely have a case for claiming transport costs from WINZ to see someone else.
I would keep notes, with times, dates etc of what is said. You can also ask to have a practice nurse sit in on any consult, or even a Health and Disability advocate. It’s amazing the things some people won’t say when there is a witness. And if he does say them, you have proof.
“I went to my GP for a Winz medical cert and he gave me one for 3 months, he said if ‘I could drive, I could work’ and ‘I needed to consider paying back to society the cost of a recent joint replacement’ I’m not kidding!”
How disgusting a GP that is! Sadly the same people that have been known for pushing the whole agenda, who include ones like Dr David Beaumont (formerly from ATOS) – as advisor for MSD (and others), like Dr Des Gorman, Chief of Health Workforce NZ (in charge of recruitment and involved also in working on training programs for staff in the medical field), who also is now on the board of ACC, who gave some appalling advice on past ACC cases, and possibly still is the top man on the National Health Board, same as of course Dr David Bratt, Principal Health Advisor for MSD (comparing benefit dependence to drug dependence), plus of course Prof. Mansel Aylward (one of the key propagators of “work being the best treatment to get well”, advisor to Paula Bennett, also due to speak to a leading GP conference in Rotorua in a week or so) and “Dame Black” (like Aylward also from the UK), they have all been involved in sending the same “messages” to medical practitioners.
Doctors are also being lobbied, trained and influenced, to work along the new philosophy, following the perverted interpretation of the “bio-psycho social model” for illness and disability issues, as DWP in the UK and now WINZ in New Zealand are pushing for.
It goes beyond WINZ’s designated doctors and health and disability advisors now, and some doctors are concerned.
That GP of yours needs a good reminder of his Code of Ethics, which ensures that the well-being of the patient comes before all else!
I am glad a more competent, properly qualified professional gave you a better, more sympathetic treatment.
That is what I tell all affected. Do not just rely on your GP, go and consult a specialist in the very health areas you suffer from, be this a rheumatoligist, an orthopaedic specialist, a psychologist, a psychiatrist, counsellor, or whatever!
GPs often lack sufficient in depth knowledge, but of course they would never admit it. They like to call themselves “specialist generalists”, what a contradiction in terms, really!
I dunno. It’s a mixed bag with GPs. Mine had no problem completing medical certificates for IBs for people who really were not able to work. She had a problem with being abused for not completing them for a small fraction of patients who were fit for work, after WINZ had reportedly told them no problem getting your benefit extended, just get your GP to sign the certificate. Mind you, that discussion took place about 5 years ago. Things are a lot different now, but my GP will still be batting & even battling for genuine cases.
Unfortunately yes things are a lot different now. My latest letter from Winz warned me not to jet off overseas without informing them first (so they could cut my benefit). Reality check….today I treated myself to a 3 month car reg (no public transport here).
Well to be fair it is pretty important for the thousands of beneficiaries who regularly embark on overseas shopping trips to let WINZ know they’ll be offshore visiting overseas thrift & pawn shops for a few days.
‘it’s a mixed bag with GPs. Mine had no problem completing medical certificates for IBs for people who really were not able to work.’ Hmmm. I can work, I’d love to work and I think I have a lot to offer, but I would need lots of days off when I’m unwell and I can’t type very fast because my hands are crippled. So whether you can do paid work or not is not the issue. I can work but no-one will employ me, especially when I’m competing withe the able-bodied..I believe the whole point of these reforms is to drive down wages and conditions for those who have paid work.
That GP of yours needs a good reminder of his Code of Ethics, which ensures that the well-being of the patient comes before all else!
I am glad a more competent, properly qualified professional gave you a better, more sympathetic treatment.
That is what I tell all affected. Do not just rely on your GP, go and consult a specialist in the very health areas you suffer from, be this a rheumatoligist, an orthopaedic specialist, a psychologist, a psychiatrist, counsellor, or whatever!
GPs often lack sufficient in depth knowledge, but of course they would never admit it. They like to call themselves “specialist generalists”, what a contradiction in terms, really!
Plenty of specialists who are arseholes too unfortunately. I’ve come across some excellent GPs too. It really comes down to the individual person. And for the beneficiary, what kind of disability/illness they have is critical to who they should see. Some are going to be better off with a compassionate GP rather than an unsympathetic specialist.
weka – as for medical professionals, any of us, whether affected and needing reports on conditions and illnesses from GPs or others, we should never be forced to do something like “doctor shopping”, for those that do their job, or as you describe as being sympathetic.
All of them have to abide by Codes of Ethics, and if they do not abide by them, they should be exposed, criticised and attacked for it. They may be in the wrong job, if they do not take their code serious.
Abuse by some “patients” may be attempted and may happen, but I see also that some medical staff are trying to not follow the codes and just do not want to bother with beneficiaries. That is unacceptable.
It is totally unacceptable to explain bias and prejudice away with “individual persons” acting differently.
Then you may as well tolerate the application of the Sharia in New Zealand, by those who think that is necessary to keep “order”!
In your previous comment you seemed to be saying that people on medical benefits should see a specialist because GPs are fairly useless. I was pointing out that the qualification or area of specialisation of the doctor is irrelevant, it’s the compassion and politics of the practitioner that counts when it comes to support with WINZ shit. Just because someone is a specialist, it doesn’t mean they will be competent at dealing with WINZ.
I agree with you that bias and lack of professional ethics is unacceptable. That’s an issue for NZ and medical practitioners to sort out. Advice to beneficiaries… I stand by making the suggestion that they choose a practitioner who isn’t an arsehole and go to some length to do that even if it does mean shopping around. Many people still believe they have to take shit from their doctor because their doctor is their doctor and can’t be changed. That’s just bullshit. I also acknowledge that for some people it is very difficult to be assertive enough to change doctors, esp where there is not much choice.
Ok, I suggested seeing a specialist, because MSD and WINZ can also turn around and say themselves (that is their case managers, or the more secretive Regional Health Advisors or Disability Advisors), well, that is what her or his GP says. We think though, the GP may not be the best medical “expert” to listen to, so hey, send the client to a designated doctor, who may have some extra “specialised skills” that appear to be more appropriate.
Then the client gets sent there and gets assessed by a WINZ trained and picked doctor, who will be less sympathetic.
In view of such possibilities I think it would make sense to go and see a specialist, who is also perhaps sympathetic at the same time, to cover oneself in case WINZ try to question reports. MSD and WINZ have many tricks up their sleeves, and so getting ones own specialist before they may come with their own doctors for a second opinion, seems advisable from my point of view.
It would certainly make sense to try and consult a specialist, if the own GP is not very sympathetic. But of course then I would try and also find a new GP.
I accept your point that some are scared to change doctors. Yes, it is understandable, as it involves looking around and approaching other doctors, whom one does not know. Then there are very private informations involved also. Changing a doctor is not done easily, as any person doing so wants to know that the new doctor can be trusted. Also those living in small towns and rural regions, they will have a very limited choice amongst doctors. I have heard enough feedback from some, who would have to travel large distances to see another doctor. When you are on a benefit such travel may be impossible or prohibitively expensive.
And challenging a doctor in such scenarios is not easy either, as the doctor may be well respected with others in such more “conservative” places. The media in such places will also not want to write critical reports on a local doctor, who could go and sue them for alleged defamation. Staff working for the doctor will not want to risk their jobs and say what they know.
I feel for people in such remote areas, as they live under conditions allowing little choice and making it very difficult to challenge unreasonableness, discrimination and what else there may be. So it pays to establish contacts to outsiders, who may be able to raise matters via channels like this forum, to at least raise awareness.
“My understanding of invalids is that there is no chance of cure within 2 years and sickness benefit 6 months. Has this criteria changed? ”
IB has become Supported Living Payment. Within that, some people will be assessed to see if they are work ready (either full or part time).
Sickness benefit has become part of the Job-seeker benefit ie they are in the same general category as unemployed people, but will have different assessment processes, depending on their illness.
From WINZ, SLP
Assessing your ability to work
We may ask some people on Supported Living Payment to do a self-assessment to tell us about the sort of work they think they might be able to do, and how we could help them to achieve that.
In some cases, we may also ask people to meet with an independent health professional as part of our assessment process.
These aren’t things we’ll ask everyone to do, as it will depend on people’s circumstances.
I take that to mean that not much has changed technically (still using designated doctors etc), but they are formalising processes so that it’s easier for them to target IBs for work. But as it says, it won’t be everyone, so anyone on IB should be making sure their GP is competent at supporting them for when the time comes.
Re SB
People receiving the following benefits on 15 July 2013 will transfer to Jobseeker Support:
Unemployment Benefit
Sickness Benefit
Domestic Purposes Benefit (Sole Parents with youngest child aged 14 or over, and Women Alone)
Widow’s Benefit (without children, or with youngest child aged 14 or over).
…
New obligations and other changes that apply to you
To receive Jobseeker Support, there are some new things you must do. These are listed below. At any time, if you can’t meet these requirements, please talk to us. Unless you have a good reason for not meeting them, your benefit could reduce or stop.
Accepting offers of suitable employment
If you’re required to look for work, and from 15 July 2013 you turn down a suitable job without a good reason, your benefit will reduce by up to half (if you have dependent children) or stop (if you don’t have dependent children) for a 13-week period.
If you’ve given us a medical certificate
There’s no change to what your current medical certificate means for your obligations, or what you need to do when it expires. We may ask you to do a self-assessment. This is an opportunity for you to tell us about the sort of work you think you can do now or in future, and how we could help you back into work.
Plus some stuff about drug testing.
I take that to mean that the UB rules will apply to SB, once the SB person has been assessed for work.
The self-assessment thing should be treated with the utmost caution, because they will be able to use that against people later. eg “I’d really like to be able to do some voluntary work at some point” becomes “they’re capable of working and should be looking for a part time job”.
As per usual, the people that have good skills at dealing with abusive systems will do ok-ish, the people that don’t will get hammered. Fuck Key, Bennet, bigots, and all the liberal middle classes who are letting this happen on their watch.
Xtasy’s advice is excellent So be mindful, alert and prepared, but do not freak yourself out too much. In any case, prepare by already connecting with advocates, support networks and others, friends and family included, so when they come to challenge you, take witnesses to assessments and else. I would add, get everything in writing.
Good advice! I don’t trust Winz and avoid them if at all possible. A lot of people on IB are former ACC clients who were dumped onto a benefit. Meanwhile there is a deafening silence from mainstream disability organisations about this. Hoping to pick up future contracts I guess.
Beatie – We have an almost undeclared ‘strategic war’ by Minister Bennett and MSD against advocacy groups.
Those that have been working in advocacy for years know this, and they are confronted by this. Funding is stopped, or limited, or re-arranged, so some, like here in Auckland long running Mangere Budgeting Service had to dismiss staff, others are facing closure.
They are all over-burdened but get insufficient funds to do their jobs.
Budgeting services do now have to follow very restrictive operational rules, limiting them to just do what MSD want the to do, to tell beneficiaries to learn to live off the benefit – no matter what, as they will not get more. True advocacy is only possible by doing extra time and putting in extra effort, it is not paid for anymore.
And the disability advocates do (like many of the advocacy and budgeting services) also largely depend from direct or indirect state funding.
So they are kept in dependence, which means they do not dare to bite the hand that feeds them. Bennett and her Ministry have the upper hand, they know it, and they lay down the law as they please.
As there will be much out-sourcing of services, yes, some will be keen to look at what they can sign up for, to “assist” some sick and disabled into open employment, for nice fees that MSD is going to pay for them.
No surprise there, as that allows Bennett to go around and behave so “cocky” as she often comes across. She earns 5000 or more dollars a week, and she has long forgotten, where she once came from!
Until recently I was part of an advocacy organisation in my town. we were volunteers and we assisted people with Winz, Acc, employment and tenancy issues etc. There is a huge need out there for this sort of service.We got a trickle of funding because there is no CAB here. However that dried up and when we queried it we were accused of ‘biting the hand that feeds us’. Meanwhile organisations that say they do advocacy, but don’t got $1000’s. Also those of us on benefits were targeted by Winz because, if we could do voluntary work we could do paid work, couldn’t we? One of us (head injury, ex nurse) and particularly good at advocacy was moved from IB to SB because she pissed our local Winz workers off. There’s some nasty bastards out there.
I’m disclosing a lot of personal info here but I think that a lot of people are in real trouble out there and others don’t know/care/give a fuck.
Thanks beatie, it sounds like you have been through a lot, and you have certainly done the right thing by doing some advocacy for others.
Yes, I know, there are some mean jerks within WINZ, but then again some are also ok. In the end they are all public servants, and that means, they get instructions, and must follow them, or they will themselves get trouble for not doing so.
It is the chain of command, and the system keeps us all in some forms of chains of dominance and command.
That was also what enabled Hitler and the Nazis to do what they did, to exploit the fear of people to step out of line and not co-operate.
What WINZ do cannot be compared to that, but it is highly worrisome and increasingly inhumane, in some cases criminal. So at some stage civil disobedience should become the duty of those pushed too far to do things that just are not right.
Raising awareness here and elsewhere is a start to spread the truth about what is going on. Ideally more will wake up and raise their voice of disagreement and protest. That is what we must work for. We need people to ask themselves whether this is right, and come to the right conclusion, and then join us and take action.
“If you’re required to look for work, and from 15 July 2013 you turn down a suitable job without a good reason, your benefit will reduce by up to half (if you have dependent children) or stop (if you don’t have dependent children) for a 13-week period.”
An awful lot hangs on that phrase “without a good reason“.
Back in 1991 I was unemployed – perfectly timed to coincide with the benefit cuts and introduction of draconian rules just like this one. At the time there was a rule that if you turned down work (not just ‘a permanent job’) you had a strike against you. You had two strikes and then, next time, you had your benefit stopped (I think that was how it worked).
Well, I lined up for my weekly scouring of the jobs board and chat with the person processing us on the other side of the counter and was told that there were two days shallot picking/digging somewhere beyond the outskirts of Christchurch. It happened that I had been told a few days earlier that I had managed to get an interview for a professional job on the morning of the first day of shallot picking. I said this to the woman behind the counter. She said, deadpan, ‘So, you’re refusing work?’.
I tried to explain that I thought it was a good reason and it seemed crazy to insist I go for two days shallot picking and miss out on an interview for a very skilled job when there were plenty of others in the line who’d be keen to take the two days work. She wasn’t having any of it and seemed more intent on getting through the day in front of an endless line of unemployed people.
‘That’s one strike’ she said (or words to that effect). I left the office feeling like dirt and worried as hell at what they might do to me if something like that happened again. At that very moment I had written away and had in process over 40 applications for positions both in New Zealand and overseas. Part of me wanted to go back in, take the shallot picking and flag the interview – I didn’t want to risk losing what was a pretty meagre benefit because it was the only guaranteed income I had.
I was gobsmacked but stuck to my guns and went to the job interview. About a week later I ended up hearing that I got the job. In the meantime, I’d taken another ‘job’ picking apples and took the job offer call in the apple orchard office.
I’ve never forgotten that experience.
Who knows, maybe the woman I spoke to was applying the rules incorrectly and just thought I was a lazy, con-artist or something who was spinning her a line. Part of me still wants to believe that it couldn’t possibly be what was intended – counted as ‘refusing work’ because you had to go to a job interview.
But it happened, intended or not.
Maybe just that the form said – agreed to do work offered – Yes … No and had no other option.
Government bureaucracies work like that, especially when they’ve just been gutted or restructured by bean counters and been told to find ways to work smarter to get through the same amount of work. Basic checklists soon abound on front desks to slash the time previously “wasted” applying rational thinking when the situation is even slightly more complex than the simple interactions the academically qualified policy designers or the contracted trainers envisaged.
FFS. No wonder people despair the msm. This is stuff.co’s headline front page photo item.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/beauty/8808621/Miss-Utahs-words-fail-her-and-everyone-else
This outwardly attractive person’s inability to form a coherent answer reminds me of David Shearer.
What is the difference between David Shearer and Miss Utah?
One is young, inexperienced and has plenty of time to develop skills.
The other is old, experienced and is incapable of developing skills now.
Unfortunately Stuff often self-promotes using images of young attractive women in that photo slot – sometimes it has more serious news items there, and sometimes images of young celebrity males, but young women are most often seen in that slot.
karol
Are pretty women used as tokens to be put into the paywall slot?
Perhaps they will get a special rate for their citizen images of themselves, as is offered in some bars because of their magnetic abilities.
“Pretty woman, I don’t believe you
You’re not the truth
No one could look as good as you
Mercy”
(Oh Noze, they air-brushed my face). 😎
Deprivation and Double the density around the Tamaki estuary.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10891194
only one Tamaki resident on the board, chaired by a former property developer, Merchant Banker.
PLA responds to PRISM
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/international/17-Jun-2013/china-army-paper-hits-out-at-us-prism-programme
Americans oppose arming Syrian rebels
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/17/americans-are-reluctant-to-aid-syrian-rebels-polls-show/ but many are not even aware of what’s going on.
“Washington is Insane”
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Washington-Is-Insane-by-Paul-Craig-Roberts-130617-780.html
Now it is all coming out bit by bit. There are new revelations by the week now, if not by the day.
Edward Snowden, NSA intelligence staff member turned “whistle-blower”, in hiding in Hong Kong, has answered questions via the website of ‘The Guardian’:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower
AP have come out with a story, revealing that apparently PRISM is just the tip of the iceberg, when it comes to wide-scale internet and communications surveillance by US agencies:
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/secret-prism-success-even-bigger-data-seizure
Have a read of this for “enlightenment”:
“Deep in the oceans, hundreds of cables carry much of the world’s phone and Internet traffic. Since at least the early 1970s, the NSA has been tapping foreign cables. It doesn’t need permission. That’s its job.
But Internet data doesn’t care about borders. Send an email from Pakistan to Afghanistan and it might pass through a mail server in the United States, the same computer that handles messages to and from Americans. The NSA is prohibited from spying on Americans or anyone inside the United States. That’s the FBI’s job and it requires a warrant.
Despite that prohibition, shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, President George W. Bush secretly authorized the NSA to plug into the fiber optic cables that enter and leave the United States, knowing it would give the government unprecedented, warrantless access to Americans’ private conversations.”
Also:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-surveillance-architecture-includes-collection-of-revealing-internet-phone-metadata/2013/06/15/e9bf004a-d511-11e2-b05f-3ea3f0e7bb5a_story.html
So George Orwell’s 1984 ominous future visions have in some ways already materialised!
Does anybody trust GCSB, the SIS and Key’s assurances that New Zealanders have nothing to fear?
Protests spread throughout Brazil
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22946736
Nuts spending all this money on sports facilities.
Edward Snowden
They gave some of his comments on Radionz this morning. Sounds a cool guy. Hope you keep cool Edward. Don’t want you to be the Count of Monte Christo.
Queensland power prices rise 20%
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/17/australia-electricity-prices-queensland
more free-market fu$k-ups.
The ghost of Edward carpenter
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jun/17/millthorpe-derbyshire-edward-carpenter
gay rights activist and socialist.
Mighty river down to $2.30!!!
It was lower than that last week. IIRC it ended last week at $2.28.
What a bluff hand. Not a royal flush…
Yes, I would have thought that this failure would make important news on the msm yet TV3 news never has MRP share price on its half dozen listed prices it shows…I wonder why?
WHO IS LEADING THE ARMS RACE?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/datablog/picture/2013/jun/16/infographic-who-leading-the-arms-race
(infographic)
China- 2.2M active troops
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/16/world-military-power-infographic
and then there’s all that gear.
oooh Government books WILL NOT return to surplus in 2015; wait patiently till 2016 instead now.oooh.- RNZ
she’ll be coming round the mountain, she’ll be coming round the mountain, she’ll be coming round the mountain when she bombs. (I knew an old lady who swallowed a fly). 😀
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8809801/Job-revealed-in-Rebstock-appeal
Well, well, well wouldn’t it be interesting to know who person A is…
Yep. But no worries if I never find out. I’m more interested in knowing who GCSB spied on, and why.
Yeah I kinda figured it’d be like that…
Would be kind of good for us all to know what exactly is being surrendered in the TPPA negotiations, too. You know, the 1-2% doing on-the-quiet-selling-your-sovereignty-deals with the other 1-2% in the US.
Look forward to learning more about what the NSA’s been up to from Snowden as well. A lot of guts, that bloke. Seems to doubt people can trust Corporate-led – or maybe any – Governments with private information:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10891334
He might be on to something there.
yup pretend its not happening or point to something else thats the ticket
Well no, I’m still interested in finding out who the leaker was in MFAT, but just not that interested. People needed to see what a thick prick McCully is. Public servants have endured years of bashing from the arsoles they have to work for. Its inevitable some will defend themselves and retaliate by whatever means available.
Can attest to that. I worked for a government agency that tried to rip off another government agency in the late 1980s and early 1990s. I had to put up with bullying and intimidation because they knew I had a few senior political contacts at that time and they were afraid I might spill the beans. In the end I did exactly that, and they had no-one but themselves to blame. A contract they were dead keen on getting signed ended up being scrapped. It served them right. Not surprisingly, that management didn’t last much longer…
But the details of the case were swiftly covered up and never the light of day.
Yep. Similar experience. Legal Services assisted in the cover up so we were stuffed trying to do anything about it.
Aye! Not to mention covering up financial mismanagement, lying, leaking cabinet papers, troughing, and generally thinking that quaint old code of conduct doesn’t apply to them.
Thankfully (as you suggest Anne), some of them eventually come a cropper
FYI
(Information you won’t find on the ‘Truth’ or the ‘Daily Blog’ 🙂
“How to get ACTION taken to help stop this Auckland DAFT Unitary Plan!”
BACKGROUND:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10891017
NZ Herald Monday 17 June 2013 Bernard Orsman
“The Auckland Council is talking up another one million residents in the city by 2041, but it is taking a prudent line when it comes to providing transport, water and other services.
The council has adopted a Statistics New Zealand’s high-growth scenario of a million more residents by 2041, but its water body is using a medium-growth scenario of 700,000 more residents.
The mismatch has raised questions, but council chief planning officer Dr Roger Blakeley says it is prudent to provide for the highest likely population growth and to be cautious to avoid over-investment.
………………..
Councillor Cameron Brewer has called for an independent review of the most likely population growth, saying the council’s projections are out of kilter with the Government’s national infrastructure unit’s mid-range projections. …..”
______________________________________________________________________________
STATEMENT BY 2013 AUCKLAND MAYORAL CANDIDATE PENNY BRIGHT:
Did YOU know that the following Petition 2011/64 has already been presented to the House?
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Presented/Petitions/5/0/5/50DBHOH_PET3157_1-Petition-of-Penelope-Mary-Bright-requesting-that.htm
Petition of Penelope Mary Bright
Requesting that Parliament declines to proceed with the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill until the lawfulness of the reliance of Auckland Council on the New Zealand Department of Statistics’ “high”population growth projections, instead of their “medium” population growth projections for the Auckland Spatial Plan, has been properly and independently investigated, taking into consideration that both Auckland Transport and Watercare Services Ltd, have relied upon “medium” population growth projections for their infrastructural asset management plans.
Petition number: 2011/64
Presented by: Holly Walker
Date presented: 30 May 2013
Referred to: Social Services Committee
______________________________________________________________________________
– with the following ‘Supplementary Evidence’ ?
http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Housing-Accord-and-Special-Housing-Areas-Bil-Supplementary-Evidence-13-Juna-2013.pdf
This is an ‘Item of Business’ before the Social Services Select Committee.
The next meeting of the Social Services Select Committee, is scheduled for Wednesday 26 June 2013.
If YOU support this Petition, you can send an email / letter to this Select Committee, in the following way, using this as a guide:
(EMAIL TO THE CLERK OF THE SOCIAL SERVICES SELECT COMMITTEE : [email protected]
MAIL TO THE CLERK OF THE SOCIAL SERVICES SELECT COMMITTEE : Tracey Rayner
Private Bag 18041, Parliament Buildings, Wellington 6061 (No stamp required).
______________________________________________________________________________
To Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, Chair of the Social Services Select Committee.
RE: Petition 2011/64
Requesting that Parliament declines to proceed with the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill until the lawfulness of the reliance of Auckland Council on the New Zealand Department of Statistics’ “high” population growth projections, instead of their “medium” population growth projections for the Auckland Spatial Plan, has been properly and independently investigated, taking into consideration that both Auckland Transport and Watercare Services Ltd, have relied upon “medium” population growth projections for their infrastructural asset management plans.
I, the undersigned, request that you and ALL members of the Social Services Select Committee please support the investigation requested by this petition.
I am particularly concerned, that the LAW which covers the Auckland (Spatial) Plan, which the Auckland Draft Unitary Plan is supposed to help implement, appears to have not been followed:
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2009/0032/latest/DLM3338660.html
79 Spatial plan for Auckland
(1)The Auckland Council must prepare and adopt a spatial plan for Auckland.
(4)The spatial plan must—
(c) provide an evidential base to support decision making for Auckland, including evidence of
trends,opportunities, and constraints within Auckland;
____________________________________________________________________________
The recommendation from the Department of Statistics, in their ‘customised’ advice to Auckland Council on 28 March 2011 – stated:
http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/AUCKLAND-GROWTH-PROJECTIONS-FOR-SPATIAL-PL-AN-DEPT-OF-STATISTICS-SNZ-letter-2.pdf
“Population Projections for the Auckland Spatial Plan
Development of the Auckland Spatial Plan requires that an evidential base is provided to support decision making for Auckland. Furthermore, it requires the identification of the existing and future location of residential activities within specific geographic areas within Auckland.
Population estimates and projections clearly form a good source of information for these purposes.
Statistics New Zealand were asked to produce customised population projections for a new growth model for Auckland. Under the medium series, this resulted in a projected population of 2,160,700 for 2041
(the low series projected 1,832,100 people and the high series projected 2,467,500 people).
Statistics New Zealand has been asked by the Auckland Council
“is a projected population for the Auckland region of approximately 2.1 million people a reasonable basis for planning?” While there is no certainty that the births, deaths and migration assumptions in the population projection will be realised, Statistics New Zealand agrees that a projected population of approximately 2.1 million at 2041 is a reasonable basis for planning at this point in time. We would reiterate that it is important to consider the range of projections, including the low and high scenarios. ..”
Why was this arguably ‘expert’ advice from the Department of Statistics apparently then ignored?
I look forward to your exercising ‘due diligence’ as a Members of Parliament for New Zealand, the ‘Highest Court in the Land’, and doing your part to ensure that ‘justice is done and been seen to be done’, and the ‘Rule of Law’ prevails.
NAME ADDRESS SIGNED
______________________________________________________________________________
A copy of this ‘sample’ letter can be found here:
http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/?p=171
If YOU want to sign something which ‘has teeth’ and can help make a difference to stop this Auckland ‘democracy for developers’ / ‘market madness’ – this, in my considered opinion – is IT.
Yours sincerely,
Penny Bright
‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation’ campaigner
2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate
Penny,
Isn’t the agenda to get those up to a million extra “Aucklanders” into the city first, to get them sweating – while working hard, and to have them earn some money in a future, more “sweat-shop” like NZ economy, and pay taxes from that, and with that pay for the additional infrastructure?
That is what it seems to me.
It has been the agenda for decades, well probably from the day the first settlers came here, to bring in more, to create growth in a “primitive” way, by simply “growing the market” and labour pool by immigration, to justify all the great nice new projects the “leaders” of cities and central government like to talk about.
Once those additional people are here, oh my, ah well, we never expected that, we need yet more, to pay for the additional costs that “unexpectedly” arose in the meantime.
The ‘Hairdo’ makes a stand for His rehabilitation announcing today that He will not support the private members bill that would allow ‘scab labour’ to be used by employers to break strikes…
Are you speculating, bad, or is there a public announcement to that effect?
Perhaps this, Karol.
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/Auckland/news/nbpol/1159820385-Dunne-not-backing-crack-down-on-strikes
Newstalk also has this item
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/Auckland/news/nbpol/1820192995-Peter-Dunne-breaks-political-hiatus
Addendum : the same google search gave this article in the Southland Times by Peter Cullen, Employment lawyer, on the Dunne situation vis a vis ownership of emails sent from employer’s sites.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/business/8808508/All-emails-from-work-belong-to-the-employer
Now I am late for an appointment – must rush!
Thanks, Veuto. I did a search on google news earlier and it didn’t throw that article up.
Who me speculate!!! shame on me, heard it on the news on the car radio twelve oclock-ish, don’t ask me what the station was coz as far as the sounds in the car go i wouldn’t have a clue,(leaving myself wide open here),
Dunne was quoted as saying that He wouldn’t vote for it as such legislation was wide open to abuse from employers,
Who would have thunk it, Saint Peter seeks redemption in the court of public opinion and only scores a brownie point,
i wonder what the Maori Party(s) view is on this issue,(besides Pita worrying about the mortgage and Te Ureroa worrying about being leader that is)…
Twittering from Dunne
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10891371
“And the cat’s in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man on the moon…”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tZmN7eHYFU
“But there were planes to catch and bills to pay.”
https://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/06/17-3
😉
-Stone
now, here is a ‘parent’ that could do with ‘the bash’
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10891298
…john patiently waits…
What a great roundup
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10891362
Race, Religion and politics.
Hats off to Bryce Edwards.(and Roy Harper).
FYI
My ‘Open Letter /OIA request to Professor Sir Peter Gluckman :”Upon what ‘science’ are you relying to support fluoride in water?” should get a reply before 5pm, Wednesday 10 July 2013.
______________________________________________________________________________
Dear Penny
Thank you for your request under the Official Information Act 1982 dated 12 June 2013, which has been forwarded to me.
We will respond to your query as soon as is reasonably practicable within the 20 working days allowed,
(before 5pm 10 July 2013).
Yours sincerely
……………………………….
Communications Officer
Office of the Prime Minister’s Science Advisory Committee
PO Box 108-117, Symonds Street
Auckland 1150, New Zealand
_______________________________________________________
12 June 2013
‘Open Letter’ / OIA to Professor Sir Peter Gluckman from Auckland Mayoral candidate Penny Bright:
“Upon what ‘science’ are you relying to support fluoride in water?”
OFFICE OF THE PRIME MINISTER’S SCIENCE ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Professor Sir Peter Gluckman, KNZM FRSNZ FMedSci FRS
Chief Science Advisor
Dear Professor,
I read with interest your following ‘Media Release’:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/GE1306/S00035/sir-peter-gluckman-statement-of-flouride.htm
“Media release
12 June 2013
“The science of fluoride in water is effectively settled. It has been one of the most thoroughly worked questions in public health science over many decades,” says Sir Peter Gluckman, the Prime Minister’s Chief Science Advisor.
In a statement released today on the issue of fluoride in public water supplies, Sir Peter reiterates the scientific facts, saying “it is absolutely clear that at doses used in New Zealand to adjust the natural level to one that is consistent with beneficial effects (0.7-1.0mg/litre), there is no health risk from fluoride in the water.”
So why is there any issue at all?
Sir Peter points to the importance of the values debate around fluoridation, but warns that this should not be misrepresented as a scientific debate. …”
______________________________________________________________________________
Can you please provide the information which confirms you have read the following research:
1) http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jeph/2013/439490/
“..chronic effects of fluoride involve alterations in the chemical activity of calcium by the fluoride ion. Natural calcium fluoride with low solubility and toxicity from ingestion is distinct from fully soluble toxic industrial fluorides …”
“Industrial fluoride ingested from treated water enters saliva at levels too low to affect dental caries. Blood levels during lifelong consumption can harm heart, bone, brain, and even developing teeth enamel.
The widespread policy known as water fluoridation is discussed in light of these findings. ….”
2) http://www.slweb.org/50reasons.html
50 Reasons to Oppose Fluoridation
Dr. Paul Connett
Professor of Chemistry
St. Lawrence University, NY 13617
______________________________________________________________________________
FYI – I have spent some hundreds of hours researching the decisions of the Ministry of Health and Watercare Services to use Waikato river water as a ‘raw’ source of drinking water supplies for the Auckland region.
I respectfully suggest that you read the following document which I prepared for a meeting of the Auckland City Council Finance and Business Committee back in October 2002, so that you can understand why a number of persons, such as myself, do NOT trust either the Ministry of Health, or Watercare Services Ltd, when it comes to safeguarding public health and drinking water supplies.
http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Waikato-Amended-ACC-Presentation-18-10-02.pdf
FYI – as a 2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate, I do NOT support the fluoridation of public drinking water supplies.
Penny Bright
‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation’ campaigner.
…………………………………………………..
http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/?page_id=152
James Corbett on Margaret Sanger’s Planned Parenthood & Eugenics.
Dr. W.L. Hutton was the head medical officer of health in the first Canadian city to fluoridate their water supply. Dr. W.L. Hutton was the president of the eugenics society of Canada from 1930 – 1938 [he became Brantford’s head medical officer in 1937].
“Using the fluoride in the water supplies in their gulags (concentration camps), to make the prisoners stupid, docile, and subservient.”
Ref : The Crime and Punishment of I. G. Farben by Joseph Borkin
http://canadianawareness.org/2012/03/water-fluoridation-directly-linked-to-eugenics/
“At the end of the Second World War, the United States Government sent Charles Eliot Perkins, a research worker in chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology, to take charge of the vast Farben chemical plants in Germany. While there he was told of a scheme which had been worked out by them during the war and adopted by the German General Staff. This was to control the population in any given area through mass medication of drinking water. In this scheme sodium fluoride occupied a prominent place. Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual’s power to resist domination by slowly poisoning and narcotisizing a certain area of the brain and will thus make him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him. Both the Germans and the Russians added sodium fluoride to the drinking water of prisoners-of-war to make them stupid and docile.” (Reference: Victorian Hansard of 12th August 1987).
http://fluoridationfacts.com/education/propaganda/870000_perkins.htm
Are you sure your tin-foil headgear is wound tightly enough?
… as the fluoridation campaign gained steam, the Public Health Service was headed by another top Alcoa official, Oscar R. Ewing, who in turn was aided by Edward L. Bernays, the father of modern public relations and author of the book “Propaganda,” who sought to portray fluoride’s opponents as wackos.
http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Mellon_family
obviously didn’t have to try to hard, though
West Germany ditched mass water fluoridation after a brief trial in the 1950’s. Probably the idiot Americans pushing them to try it.
After West Germany unified with East Germany, they ordered the East Germans to ditch water fluoridation too.
Did that prove to be the predictable dental disaster for East German children??? Nope.
Oh and just for the pedantic amongst us McFlock
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11014515
Very interesting abstract. Thanks.
You’re welcome. How about this one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Mendoza-Schulz%20A%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=19619626
Note that the investigators noted altered cell migration behaviour at a level of just 2.4 micromol/L of human serum fluoride concentration.
This was a level several times less than what the investigators considered typical for persons “chronically exposed” to fluoridated water.
and how did they define “chronic exposure” in relation to, say, the <0.7-0.8ppm levels used in artificial fluoridation in NZ?
Dunno…but they regard (0.23 and 1.2 micromol/L) as below normal human serum concentrations.
And just 2 micromol/L above that, evidence was found suggesting increased migration activity in malignant brain cell behaviour.
Come on Mr Scientist, open your eyes and consider a few facts from outside your doctrinal orthodoxy
ffs.
Every single chemical on the planet is dangerous at some level, from hydrogen to uranium. The entire point is that there is a dose-response relationship for good effects as well as bad. Were they talking about NZ fluoride levels creating actual harm? Experimental science dovetails with epidemiological evidence – just show the relevance of the article you provided to the discussion of fluoridation in NZ.
hey mate keep sucking it up
I’m sure your serum F is ok
eeep! I am suddenly scared for no reason, and will therefore completely reverse my position!
Oh, wait, that’s not how science works. Phew, you almost had me there for a moment.
You’re a follower of the doctrine mate, science is merely your scripture. And you don’t like looking at the verses which don’t suit you.
Wait a sec I have to go brush my teeth with Colgate Total now, got that yucky furry feeling from enamel destroying plaque
Science is a methodology. Scripture is unquestioned assertion. Basically, you’re now in the realm of creationists who say “the Theory of Evolution is just a theory”.
Edit: And I read your links more carefully than you did.
Nice how like any fundamentalist you like to judge and denigrate other peoples belief systems by your own specific orthodoxy’s unassailable criteria for truth and validity.
Yes you did read the links more carefully, good you have full access to those papers thanks for the extra info
EDIT
It is far more than that, and sometimes it is not that at all.
Damned dirty trick I played, asking you to show how your randomly-selected article (butbutbut it contained the word “fluoride”) was at all relevant to the fluoridation levels used in NZ. /sarc
It’s actually really easy to understand: if fluoridation had negative effects at NZ levels, your tinfoil support sites would point to the studies that show it. Not some dime-doctor who says that’s what the studies say, they would link to the actual studies that show detectable harm from the 0.7-0.8ppm levels. We have seen detectable benefits linked to before in this debate, and the study you presented to say that maybe those benefits no longer apply was indeterminate and difficult to translate directly to NZ conditions (the entire “Berlin Wall and lifestyles” thing).
You want to call it mass-medication? Okay, then let’s go to “first, do no harm”. Where’s the harm?
EDIT
well, that looked profound while saying fuck all.
I mean, you have the balls to accuse me of judging by unassailable criteria, but at least I don’t come up with pseudo-profundities like that.
Where’s the harm? Nah fuck that mate. Instead, for starters, let’s go with consent to treat.
You don’t have it. The harm is in you taking away my ability to consent to take a medication or not take a medication. And I do not consent.
Where’s your medical bioethics now, hotshot? You gonna say that you know best and the patient should just follow doctors orders?
Except, Christchurch has just decided to turn down fluoridation yet again, and roughly half of NZers do not receive fluoridated water supply, Taranaki and Hamilton ditched it pretty recently, so whatever.
Oh look thee to thy scriptures for revelations
It’s called a “water filter”. And has a friend called “find an alternative source”.
Nobody forces you to drink tap water.
yeah, that’s what I already figured about the ethics of your compulsory mass medication programme.
awwww, you thought you’d learned how to support a scientific argument with actual evidence and now you’re just flailing about back in the familiar territory of making bioethical mountains out of trace-element molehills with a few semi-godwins thrown in.
Much as you like to call science a religious doctrine, the fact is that without at least a little bit of science you’d be singing the praises of “invisible good-teeth water magic”.
Anyway, I’m off to bed now. Remember to check under the bed for boogeymen and NSA bugs before you go sleepytime. And try to figure out the difference between “as low as” and “greatly increased from”.
oh that’s sweet, CV’s learning how to provide evidence.
If you’d looked beyond the abstract and read the article, you’d have read the confounding factors in East Germmany at the time:
And you might have even bothered to read the last line of the article, after the general discussion of the results and other studies (some with similar results):
Didja see the bit about feeding babies sodium fluoride in their first year of life? And the massive increases in antibiotic use? Of course you did, because you didn’t just rely on the abstract, did you…
Wow, that’s really impressive. Thank you.
The German government massively resourced their people to improve dental care, made sure fluoridated toothpastes and salt were available, but as part of the dental health programme saw it fit to REMOVE mass water fluoridation.
Cheers mate.
Yeah I think you’re the one “confounded”.
EDIT you might want to explain to me how Vit D for rickets and antibiotics for all reasons plus greatly increased fast food and sugar intake is supposed to help with the incidence of dental caries across the entire population?
Further, greater use of dental care and surveillance should mean an increase in caries found, not a decrease.
btw I am for the availability of fluoridated salt, milk and topical toothpastes in retail stores.
Hey I could agree with that mate. But the researchers conclude fluoridation is NOT REASONABLE for areas with lower or decreasing caries prevalence.
oh, but you’re the scientific researcher, even if you might not know what a confounding factor is. You’d know all about things like oral antibiotics interacting with oral bacteria (maybe even the ones that cause tooth decay).
awwww, you mixed up “The sugar consumption of 1993 was as
low as 1980–89″ with “The sugar consumption of 1993 was greatly increased from 1980–89″. You gotta start reading what’s written, rather than what you agree with.
Because all a dentist does is put fillings in and count caries, nothing else at all /sarc
Oh McFlock, look how much effort the new German government put into improving dental care yet they yanked water fluoridation preferring to use fluoridated toothpaste and salt instead.
This is a policy that they continue to this day, 20 years on.
And once again thank you for the researchers’ conclusion from the paper:
But, as I said before, the researchers conclude fluoridation is NOT REASONABLE for areas with lower or decreasing caries prevalence.
Basic logic, boyo:
“reasonable for areas with high or increasing caries prevalence”
does not equal
“NOT REASONABLE for areas with lower or decreasing caries prevalence”,
but it does equal
“NO COMMENT ON areas with lower AND decreasing caries prevalence”.
As for “the germans did it so we can” argument, well – that’s pretty stupid.
Do you hear that sound McFlock? It’s the sound of scientific schism.
“But, as I said before, the researchers conclude fluoridation is NOT REASONABLE for areas with lower or decreasing caries prevalence.”
Do we know why? Could it be financial? How much does it cost to fluoridate water (including monitoring)?
lol
keep using big words you don’t understand. It’s funny.
not sure but the article wasn’t an economics cost/benefit analysis, it focussed on factors affecting dental effectiveness.
“EDIT you might want to explain to me how Vit D for rickets and antibiotics for all reasons plus greatly increased fast food and sugar intake is supposed to help with the incidence of dental caries across the entire population?”
Vitamin D affects calcium metabolism (amongst many other things), and is necessary for bone health (and probably dental health). I would expect that increases in antibiotic use would have a negative effect on dental health due to poorer absorption of nutrients.
Anyways, the list of confounding factors just points to we probably have no idea what is really going on (which was the point at the end of the abstract, for those of us not lucky enough to access to the full article).
If this F stuff was simply added to some brands of toothpaste and salt and milk, and I could choose to have it or not, fine. Put it out there.
But since people insist that you need to mass medicate everyone with it in all areas of the country all the time in all their food and drink, I think that a far higher standard is needed. (By the way, I’m about to go brush my teeth with a tube of Colgate Total, so I’m not a fundamentalist about this stuff)
And what I do know is that Germany yanked water fluoridation after unification, despite taking great pains to ensure that dental care in East Germany was improved, and has kept it that way for the last 20+ years.
If you think that ingestion of fluoride might be a problem, why do you use fluoridated toothpaste?
Well I get enough F from toothpaste (and there the action is mostly topical anyways); I don’t also compulsarily need it in all the food that I buy, all the meals I make and all the drink I consume.
one can empathise, regrettably, with the position of the NRA sometimes; the only thing these Authoritarian pricks seem to understand is the barrel of gun.Seen any good movies lately? like Death Race?.
Nope, haven’t seen Death Race. America has arrived at the robocop corporate government & policing style though. I see no prospect of Americans giving up their guns. They really should be concerned. I read somewhere recently there are 14 separate state security organisations there now, not including the countless military and security contractors. Eisenhower would be incredulous.
ACC story on Campbell Live no link up yet
Yes, Paul –
Campbell Live is kicking off investigations into ACC’s off-loading of complex claimants – to shift them onto welfare benefits.
http://www.3news.co.nz/Is-ACC-cutting-off-people-too-early/tabid/367/articleID/301917/Default.aspx
Yes, about time, that this gets raised again, and looked at closely again! It all kind of went under the radar again, after Minister Collins took over the files and promised to have her staff look into things, when the scandal broke and become public last year.
John Campbell did invite other ACC claimants that had similar experiences to contact them. So more is likely to come.
How bloody disgusting, them putting pressure on a man who lost one arm, to go and look for work, even in a car-yard. And also expecting a woman with serious back pain, due to serious damage, to work full-time, when she cannot and is not ready for that.
Nothing has changed, really!
I wish Campbell and his team would also open their eyes and ears and examine WINZ designated doctor recommendations, decisions by WINZ and their appallingly biased Principal Health Advisor Dr David Bratt, comparing benefit dependence to drug dependence.
The UK might be concerned about tax havens (not really) but they are connected to many of them
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2013/06/201361613599895885.html