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Open mike 18/12/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 18th, 2015 - 53 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

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53 comments on “Open mike 18/12/2015 ”

    • vto 1.1

      So let me get this straight…

      Hager’s raid was illegal

      Dotcom’s raid was illegal

      looks like a pattern to me

    • RedBaronCV 1.2

      and Winston also on radio but guess what declines from police and Nact

      • Paul 1.2.1

        Key too busy on the Rock, the Crowd Goes Wild, Radio Sport, The Edge…….
        Far too much to do to be actually doing his job.

        • Draco T Bastard


        • Ad

          John Key has reinvented politics for New Zealand – winning politics in New Zealand now has nothing to do with policy, leadership, or content of any kind. Politics is entertainment. A few jokes, a bit of teasing, lots of banter, golf, and holidays with a bit of work on the side.

          It’s a spectacular success. No one has gotten near it.

          It’s where the people are. You go to them, no more expecting them to come to you and be attracted to your message in your terms.

          • Pat

            “A few jokes, a bit of teasing, lots of banter, golf, and holidays with a bit of work on the side.’….so its a B.O.D. then….no wonder he’s right at home

  1. miravox 2

    After the revolution [6 mins]

    Employment, freedom, dignity

    Still to arrive despite a Nobel Peace Prize for the people who held the country together.

    These issues are bread and butter for the internationalist Left. Surely this is a textbook case for assistance to build democracy and the administrative leadership the country needs.

    I can’t understand why the military and its weapons is considered the best use of the Western nations’ funds to fight Daesh.

    • Sabine 2.1

      Military Industrial Complex and there is money in war. Daesh gets its weapons from someone, like the US, Germany, France, England, Sweden, Russia, China and any other manufacturer of killing machines that I may have forgotten. People? ha collateral damage and we have got seven billion and counting of them, so a few hundred thousands here and there missing are nothing but a trickle down in an ocean.

  2. Chooky 4

    Interesting breakdown of those opposing the TPPA from political parties ( from TPPA News Bulletin #80 , 17 December 2015)

    ….Shows that supporters of NZF and Winston Peters are MOST opposed to the TPPA…87%

    “Kiwis against the TPPA

    In successive polls, Kiwis have rejected the TPPA. A stunning TV3 Reid Research poll revealed that a majority of NZ voters reject the TPPA. The coverage said that 52% rejected the TPPA (some people didn’t have an opinion, and the rejection was over 60% of those who expressed an opinion). 73% of Labour supporters were against it (is Andrew Little listening?), 84% Greens and 87% NZ First. Even 23% of National
    Party supporters were against the TPPA. That’s an amazing result especially as it came after a month of media carrying the government’s PR and spin while we couldn’t see the final text. Then last week, 97.5% voted no to TPPA in an online referendum run by the people’s ‘Real Choice’ ”

    (which gives lie to the constant criticism here by some, especially professed Greens, that Winston Peters and NZF are right wing and not to be trusted….more anti TPPA from NZF supporters than than the Greens …take note !)

    • Puckish Rogue 4.1

      To believe WinstonFirst will side with Labour post-election is as foolish as thinking WinstonFirst will side with National post-election

      Winston will do whats best for Winston not whats best for any particular party

      • Stuart Munro 4.1.1

        Perhaps – but it’s reasonably clear that he is not particularly enamoured of Key.

        • Puckish Rogue

          Hes not too keen on the Greens either but he is particularly fond of the baubles of office and hes probably quite keen on being knighted as well

          But that’s what I mean, for every valid reason he could go left theres an equally valid reason for him to go right

      • Chooky 4.1.2

        @ Pucky …well you would say that wouldnt you…the nacts HATE Winston…and they know he will form a coalition with Labour if he can

        …which he will

        • Puckish Rogue


          Current polling suggests that even if Winston goes into coalition Labour/Greens it still won’t be enough and do you really think (and be honest here) that Winston wants to play second fiddle to the Greens or anyone?

          • mac1

            PR, if Winston wants to be in coalition/supply agreement or whatever on the government side, he will be playing second fiddle to whomsoever, for he’s not going to be the major partner with the most seats.

            And an elvish Christmas to you, too. I hope you get a good end bonus.

          • lprent

            Like he did with Jim Bolger before the uncooperative Jenny Shipley dropped Bolger and then Peters. Or the second fiddle that he played for Helen Clark?

            I think that you misunderstand the concept of cooperation in politics.

            • alwyn

              I think you merely prove PRs main points.
              Winston is, as PR says, “particularly fond of the baubles of office” and doesn’t like having to “play second fiddle to the Greens or anyone”.

              Do you think that Little would, if it came down to it, include Winston in his Government and exclude the Greens if that was one of Winston’s demands?
              Do you think that the Green Party would go along with it, as they had to do when Helen Clark excluded them from being part of her Government?
              Would a Labour-led Government find that titles were a good idea if Winston demanded a knighthood as part of his price?

              Are you happy that these would merely be the trifles of co-operation in Government?

              • lprent

                Sigh – read the seat numbers in 2005. I really wish that you mythmaker idiots would do some parliamentary maths.

                50 Labour Party
                48 National Party
                07 New Zealand First Party
                06 Green Party
                04 Mâori Party
                03 United Future New Zealand
                02 ACT New Zealand
                01 Jim Anderton’s Progressive

                Jim Anderton was a known partner and trusted by Labour.

                The Maori party had essentially declared war on Labour so they were out of the mix.

                UF were a known and trustworthy commodity in government.

                The Greens and NZ First were both ‘unknown’ to Labour as to how well they’d work in government. But NZF had people who’d been in government before. The Greens did not.

                50 + 06 + 03 + 01 == 60 insufficient + 1 unknown
                50 + 07 + 03 + 01 == 61 sufficient + 1 unknown
                50 + 07 + 06 + 01 == 64 more than required + 2 unknowns
                50 + 07 + 06 + +03 + 01 == 67 way more than required + 2 unknown

                Lab went for the mix with the least political risk for them as a government. If the Greens had gotten one more, then they would have been a contender. But that would have required that Peter Dunne preferred them over NZF which he didn’t.

                Now look at 2014

                60 National Party
                32 Labour Party
                14 Green Party
                11 New Zealand First Party
                02 Māori Party
                01 ACT New Zealand
                01 United Future

                Assume National got a five less seats and Labour got a five more.

                The Maori party appears to be just as hostile as they were back in 2005, but now because they are heavily in the pockets of corporate iwi. ACT and UF are supplicant clients of National. So assume all of them support National and Labour won’t. Besides

                37 + 14 + 02 + 01 +01 = 55 == well short


                37 + 14 + 11 = 62

                A pretty simple coalition compared to anything in 2005. The Greens are not what they were in 2005, they are a lot more stable. In many ways NZF social policies are closer to the Greens now than they are to Labour.

                Personally I don’t think there is a hope in hell of Winston going with National unless Key is dumped along with a lot of the National frontbench who launched that personal attack on him in 2008. I doubt if many of the cabinet experienced hands in NZF will either – Joyce’s National campaign was directly responsible for their time in the wilderness..

                But lets follow your idiotic bauble logic.

                NZF’s MPs will get more cabinet posts in a coalition where they are about half of the size of the main party. That party now has relatively few ex-cabinet ministers, which means that the parties are more cabinet equal. It is nearly a third larger than a cabinet neophyte Green party. NZF on a straight equal basis will get more baubles and a more equal partnership in the L + NZF + G.

                That won’t happen in National where more than a third of their MPs will have some kind of RECENT cabinet experience.

                • alwyn

                  I have a problem following some of the latter part of this comment. There are statements that don’t seem to be accurate.
                  For example “many of the cabinet experienced hands in NZF”. There is only one of them – Winston. Only 3 others were even in Parliament pre 2011 and none of them had any Executive, much less Cabinet experience. The same applies to “parties are more cabinet equal”. They aren’t.

                  “about half of the size of the main party”. Your own assumption is 11 to 37, which is nothing like “about half”

                  ” It is nearly a third larger than a cabinet neophyte Green party” It isn’t. It would be, on your assumptions, 11 NZF to 14 Greens. Also, as I comment above, they are both ” cabinet neophyte” parties.
                  If the Green Party is larger than NZF they are certainly going to demand more Cabinet positions than NZF. It won’t be NZF that is the second party. It will be the Greens. They (the Greens) can also remember how NZF locked them out in 2005.

                  I think Winston can adapt his “principles” to get first pick of the baubles and a knighthood. I don’t really think he wants to have to follow two parties in the pecking order.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.1.3

        Actually, it’s at the point where NZ1st simply couldn’t side with National as their policies are poles apart. IMO, there’s actually a higher probability of Labour siding with National.

        • Chooky

          +100 …and not just a “higher probability”….an actuality at the moment…Labour’s policies are Nact light blue eg TPPA, spy bill…

  3. esoteric pineapples 5

    Over the last few months I have become increasingly concerned about the actions of our Prime Minister, and how they show a complete lack of understanding about the impacts of sexual and physical violence in this country. His “prison rape” joke on radio yesterday was the last straw. I believe it is no longer OK for John Key to make light of sexual abuse and sexual violence, and so I ask you to join me in calling on the White Ribbon organization to remove John Key as an ambassador.”
    ~ Kyle MacDonald, ActionStation Member


    • mary_a 5.1

      Thanks EP for the opportunity to join and sign this petition. Done.

      FJK is a disgraceful affront to any person who has been the victim of sexual assault!

    • Chooky 5.2

      esoteric pineapple …t+100 …good work ….have signed

  4. Puckish Rogue 6

    I’m (hopefully) getting knocked off soon so this’ll probably be my last post for the year

    So everyone have a merry Christmas and stay healthy over the holidays

  5. Karen 7

    It seems that once more NZ is featuring in world media for all the wrong reasons thanks to the disgraceful behaviour of our PM.


    Thanks Key. You have, yet again, made me embarrassed for my country.

  6. Draco T Bastard 8

    World’s ‘most hated CEO’ Martin Shkreli arrested for fraud

    Martin Shkreli, the former hedge fund manager under fire for buying a pharmaceutical company and ratcheting up the price of a life-saving drug, is in custody following a securities probe not directly related to those actions.

    A seven-count indictment unsealed in Brooklyn federal court charged Shkreli with conspiracy to commit securities fraud, conspiracy to commit wire fraud and securities fraud. A second defendant, attorney Evan Greebel, of Scarsdale, New York, was charged with conspiracy to commit wire fraud. It was not immediately clear who will represent Greebel in court.

    Can’t say that I’m surprised in the least as his ratcheting up of the price of a drug simply to boost his own wealth shows the psychopathic tendencies.

  7. veutoviper 9

    TPPA Alert.

    With all that is going on at present, those of you who are anti-TPPA (as I am) may have missed this ray of hope discussed by Gordon Campbell on Scoop yesterday.


  8. Morrissey 10

    A leading thinker speaks out:
    “Slaughter’s never something to be recommended.”

    PAUL HENRY, TV3, Friday 18 December 2015
    Alison Mau, Hilary Barry, Jim Kayes

    As noted a couple of days ago, the egregious breakfast show PAUL HENRY has been markedly improved by the temporary absence of …. Paul Henry. His temporary replacement, Alison Mau, is far more intelligent and serious—and a nice person as well. This puts others at ease; Henry’s slaves Hilary and Jim are notably more relaxed and have been smiling and laughing this week rather than grimacing as Henry makes one of his ignorant and brutal comments, cringing as he grovels to a National Party politician, or forcing out an uneasy snicker at one of his mirthless jokes.

    However, Alison Mau is still at the mercy of the show’s producers. So she had no option but to talk to the discredited former ACT führer Jamie “Lock Up His Sisters” Whyte, who was one of the guests on the “Panel” segment after the 8 o’clock news. The other Panel guest was the 21 year old blogger Verity Johnson. She did not even try to disguise her contempt for Whyte.

    First item up for discussion was the decision to allow Rugby League player Russell Packer, convicted of serious assault, to remain in Australia. Whyte started by making a Paul Henry-standard joke: “It’s a severe punishment to have to stay in Australia,” he quipped. Nobody laughed. Then he embarked on a long and wandery homily about how equal treatment of offenders is unfair on the rich, who suffer unduly because “they have more to lose.” This led him on to some even more confused remarks about the love life of Brad Pitt, and then another awkward joke about how he loves alcohol.

    As Whyte rambled on, Verity Johnson looked hard up and to the right, to a spot as far away from Whyte as possible. She also fought to stop herself from laughing out loud. Even Jim and Hilary, accustomed to listening to bizarre monologues every morning, were clearly uncomfortable….

    JAMIE “LOCK UP HIS SISTERS” WHYTE: I’m a very jolly chap, especially after a certain time of night. … It’s been a very boring year. the highlight was the Free Trade deal. It was bloody great. Cons? I suppose all the slaughter. Slaughter’s never something to be recommended.

    ALISON MAU: But there are legitimate concerns about the TPP. Even Tim Groser admits that.

    JAMIE “LOCK UP HIS SISTERS” WHYTE: [speaking as slowly as possible to convey how serious he is] People don’t like companies suing governments. That’s a feature I LIKE because it constrains government. And I like government to be constrained. Ummm….

    As Whyte bored on, the camera cruelly pulled back to show Verity Johnson shaking her head and rolling her eyes, Jim and Hilary wincing, and even the technicians and studio crew shaking their heads in disbelief.

    After Whyte was gone, Jim and Hilary made a few light-hearted remarks about the absent Henry enjoying his overseas holiday. Ali Mau then uttered what might have been an even more nonsensical statement than anything by the hapless ex-ACT führer….

    ALISON MAU: Paul DESERVES a holiday! He’s worked EXTREMELY hard all year….

    More on Jamie “Lock Up His Sisters” Whyte….

  9. Rosemary McDonald 11

    So…Tertiary Councils have fewer members, more government appointees and are going to cost more…who would have thunk it?



  10. Ad 12

    (with thanks to Foreign Policy magazine)

    The first great struggle between the Rebel Alliance and the Galactic Empire ended with the destruction of the Death Star and an apparent victory for the Rebels at the Battle of Endor. Yet we now know that the struggle has raged on for the last 30 years. Why did the defeat of Emperor Palpatine and the much heralded “return of the Jedi” not produce decades of peace under a restored Republic?

    In hindsight, it’s clear that for the Rebel Alliance the Imperial defeat at the Battle of Endor was a classic example of a catastrophic victory: a sudden collapse of a seemingly unbeatable foe that produced opportunities it was unprepared to exploit. Rather than capitalizing on their historic gains and establishing the hoped-for New Republic, the Rebels simply allowed the Galactic Empire to fragment, ushering in a period of chaos.

    Now, facing a more virulent version of the Empire under the guise of the mysterious First Order, the Resistance, the successor of the Rebel Alliance, must succeed where its progenitor failed: It must be prepared to “win the peace” and show that it represents the best hope to end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy.

    As Libya, Iraq, and Syria have shown us, the combination of intense religious factionalism and a chaotic post-conflict environment is a toxic one that can lead to escalating violence and brutality. To avoid that outcome, the new Resistance must learn from the mistakes of the Rebel Alliance and quickly devise a plan to destroy the First Order and re-establish the Republic on the basis of indirect rule.

    Ultimately, the success of the peace will depend on the Resistance’s ability to hold territory and provide law and order, especially in places that were once dens of criminality. For this reason, the stability of planets like Jakku and Tatooire- is crucial and can no longer be left to the control of crime bosses like the Hutts.

    And then there are the lessons that fail to get learned; the “Horror vacui” when regimes are forced out with no replacing plan to re-settle civic order; the temptation of “boots on the ground” when hit and run tactics simply fail; the magic recipe of “Build, Hold, Govern” … suffice to say that analogies to stuff happening on earth right now abound.

    The Resistance may find itself concluding — as Britain and later the United States did — that the only way to re-establish order over fragmented, politically diverse territories is indirect rule supported by indigenous law enforcement. Carefully cultivating local leaders will be crucial to providing a legitimate “face” for the new Resistance-led government. Otherwise, if the Resistance fails to govern, or governs too directly as the Empire did (and effectively become a new empire but in faun organic cotton), there will be no end in sight to the generational wars among the stars.

  11. emergency mike 13

    John Key reflecting on ponytailgate: “…but there’s only one person who understands the complete story and that’s me and I’m quite comfortable with it.” My emphasis.


  12. Jenny Kirk 14

    Good news on norightturn – The Aussies won over the megacorporate tobacco giant.


  13. red-blooded 15

    So, how come Serco are in line for performance bonuses this year, even after they’ve had the contract retracted for failure to run a safe prison?

    $8 million over 4 years in bonuses, including about $1 million this year, according to Andrea Vance. Apparently some money will be recovered to cover costs, but there’ll still be bonuses paid for this year.

    I don’t have a link, sorry – just listening (in disbelief – no no disbelief, just disgust) to One News.

    • b waghorn 15.1

      Because ever bodies mate john is fucking useless at driving a hard bargain and gets shafted in every deal. The fact the inept douche bag made millions makes me wonder how much he must of made his bosses.

      • alwyn 15.1.1

        We should get Michael Cullen out of retirement, shouldn’t we?
        That magnificent deal he did when he bought back the railways off Toll Holdings. That showed how negotiations should be done and how to get a real bargain, didn’t it? Pay $665 million for something that was essentially worthless. That deal was even sillier than Bond paying Packer $1 billion for TV9. Packer bought that back a couple of years later for $250 million.
        That purchase of the railways showed real skill. Or, as is more realistic, total stupidity by the government of the time.

        • b waghorn

          The rail should never of been sold ,its as intrinsic to a functioning country as the roads, the rail lines need to be a seperated from from the cartage side and be treated the same as roads.
          Imagine an airport in a major city that only let its own planes land, not a good idea is it.?

  14. Morrissey 16

    “Do you think we can ever get rid of hate?”
    The Panel, RNZ National, Friday 18 December 2015
    Jim Mora, Jock Anderson, Nicky Pellegrino

    “I think there’s a certain unwillingness to intervene when unruliness breaks out.”—Jim Mora.


    Jim Mora was talking in this case about crime on the trains in Auckland, but perhaps some of the following incidences of “unwillingness to intervene when unruliness breaks out” passed across his mind for a moment….

    JOCK ANDERSON casually insulting Australian soldiers, JOHN BISHOP cracking anti-Arab hate “jokes”, MICHAEL BASSETT snarling that Nicky Hager is a Holocaust-denier, MICHELLE BOAG denouncing for several minutes the untermenschen who dare to question the wisdom of politicians, CHRIS TROTTER laughing at the fate of political dissidents, DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET shouting insanely about the poor (“I don’t believe there IS a shortage of jobs in New Zealand!”), CHRIS TROTTER (again) sternly lecturing those foolish enough to doubt the integrity of the Deep South jury that found the killer of Trayvon Martin “not guilty”, ROSEMARY McLEOD contemptuously dismissing Egyptian civilians (“Those people don’t WANT democracy!”) and—nobody who heard this one will ever forget it—Cameron Slater’s personal servant JORDAN WILLIAMS frothing and bawling like a banshee at Josie McNaught [1].

    The list goes on, and on, and on, ad absurdum, ad nauseam.

    Every one of those outbreaks of unruliness came on The Panel, the RNZ National program hosted by…. Jim Mora. In each of those outbreaks of unruliness, Mora either kept silent, or—perhaps even worse—joined in with the derisive laughing at the victims. He was unwilling—or afraid—to intervene.

    – – – – – – – – – –

    Right at the end of the program, the host brought up the German government’s decree that social media platforms must delete hate speech within 24 hours….

    JIM MORA: Do you think we can ever get rid of hate?
    NICKY PELLEGRINO: [speaking very slowly to convey great seriousness] You can’t get rid of it, but you can refuse to give it a platform.


    [1] http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-17042013/#comment-620413

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