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Open mike 19/03/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 19th, 2021 - 74 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

74 comments on “Open mike 19/03/2021 ”

    • weka 1.1

      unbelievably mad idea. Consent is not a contract.

      • arkie 1.1.1

        Also how many abusers have access to/control over their victims phones?

      • RedLogix 1.1.2

        Genuine question – how do you think people should go about establishing consent in a manner that will stand up in a Court?

        • McFlock

          Well, firstly, I try not who have sex with anyone who might make a complaint to police about it afterwards. So this involves me knowing them for a bit, making sure we're on the same page with what we want from the interaction, making sure they're not drunk/vulnerable/unconscious, that sort of thing.

          Secondly, ongoing active consent is fun, not a legal excuse.

          Thirdly, if someone wants to perjure themselves in order to invent a rape charge, the app isn't going to change anything in that regard. Every defensive tactic will just be attempted to be bypassed, just like rapists try to bypass every defensive tactic against rape.

          • RedLogix

            Great advice to give to a 16yr old. But honestly I don't think it answers the question.

            • McFlock

              Well, it's an odd question.

              The fact is that it always comes down to the specific circumstances of each situation. It's like asking how to defend oneself from a physical assault.

              But it's not something you need to worry about immediately, which an assault is: act now or get thumped. You don't just have time to get an expert opinion, you can hire an expert to defend you: get a lawyer.

              When the cops interview you, STFU. In an adversarial system, they are not your friend and anything you give them will only be used against you. Court is when you get to state your case.

              But it's far more common to use that approach to introduce doubt about the fact that the consent was refused, rather than persuading beyond reasonable doubt that the consent (which had in reality been given) did not actually happen.

              • RedLogix

                Yup … all kinds of problematic every way you look at it.

                • McFlock

                  But the current situation in NZ is definitely weighted to being more problematic in one way (letting rapists pretend consent existed in order to avoid a guilty verdict or to avoid charges even being pressed) than the other (false complaints of rape resulting in an unjust rape conviction).

        • Incognito

          In the same way they get married, write a will, or apply for euthanasia. I think having sex is a more than appropriate fit with these.

          • RedLogix

            Fair enough, yet each one of those is essentially a form of contract, accompanied by a legal document. If I'm reading the above thread correctly – this has been explicitly rejected as 'mad'.

            Not sure where this leaves us. Trials that hinge on 'he said, she said' are very unsatisfactory for all concerned. Yet when I read the entire article above

            Fuller said his suggestion could gain popularity in time.

            “To be honest with you, the app idea could be the worst idea I have in 2021, but the reality is in five years, perhaps it won’t be,” he said. “If you think about dating 10 years ago, this concept of single people swiping left and right was a term that we didn’t even know.”

            The advice from McF above is perfectly fine if we could assume good faith, sound mind and good intentions – but people are not always like that.

            • Incognito

              Consent is an informal contract too. You don’t get to sign these contracts if you’re not sane of mind (or half-pissed or drugged), haven’t received or at least been offered professional advice, have not been properly informed (informed consent), and only in the presence of reliable witnesses who are also sane of mind and sober …

              Oh, the signed piece of paper is kept in a safe place where it cannot be tempered with because it may be needed later, e.g. in Court …

              You asked, I answered.

    • McFlock 1.2

      So… Cherry 2000 with apps instead of lawyers. Dude is repeating 35 year old tropes that were stupid at the time.

      But congrats to him for making a 1980s hollywood vision of the future marginally less inaccurate.

  1. Marcus Morris 2

    Judith Collins tweets this morning "Our petition is working" which obviously refers to the petition she started a few days ago demanding that the "bubble" with Australia be opened immediately. I guess when you are polling as lowly as she is (and falling) you search for any crumb of comfort. The Government has been working continuously to find ways of safely opening the borders to Australians and Pacific Islanders. It would appear that the end of April could be a possibility but not certain. Sorry Judith, this would hardly signify "immediately".

    • bwaghorn 2.1

      I've noticed the nats have developed the ability to start demanding things that the government is going to do in the near future anyway? Then claim they had a win .

      When your as fucking useless as they are(the nats that is) you gots to claim any little thing you can .

  2. Adrian Thornton 3

    Biden in a deft move of deeply considered international diplomacy suggests "Putin has no Soul" and is a "Killer"…

    Putin responds by suggesting that Biden is projecting his inner self..

    • KJT 3.1

      Both Correct!

    • Macro 3.2

      It takes one to know one.

      So Putin openly admits that he is a killer.

      • francesca 3.2.1

        Except that's not what Putin actually said

        Asked what he would tell Mr Biden in response to his remarks, Mr Putin said: "I would tell him: 'Be well.' I wish him health, and I say that without any irony or joking."

        Recalling his youth, Mr Putin said that he and his friends would respond to insults with the taunt: "The names you call are what you are yourself" — a Russian version of the childhood riposte, "I'm rubber, you're glue; what you say bounces off me and sticks to you."

        "It's not just a rhymed childish joke; it has a deep psychological meaning: We see our own qualities in another person, we think he's like us and judge him accordingly," he added.

        • francesca

          Typical to accept the western interpretation as the actual source

        • RedLogix


        • greywarshark

          Thanks Francesca for trying to explain the point of what Putin said for some people not able to handle psychological subtleties. I think the Russians are winning this chess game. Next move Biden you nutmeister?

    • Stuart Munro 3.3

      The beginning of wisdom is calling things by their right names. Confucius

  3. KSaysHi 4

    Calling all disabled people + those who love them. Time is running out to get your story in to hikoi4disabled@gmail. Stories will be read outside Parliment from 10:30am onwards on Tuesday 23rd March.

    The purpose of this is to raise awareness of how systems such as welfare, health, housing, education are failing disabled people + highlight the lack of consultation which is still an issue.

    • RedLogix 4.1

      This is one area where Australia seems well ahead of NZ.

      While I'm sure like anything else it has it's critics, the Aussie NDIS scheme simply has no equivalent in NZ.

      • Rosemary McDonald 4.1.1

        …the Aussie NDIS scheme simply has no equivalent in NZ.

        It does have an equivalent here in NZ…and I recall the NDIS system was modeled on the same.

        We call it the Accident Compensation Corporation.

        Had the late Sir Owen's entire plan unfolded the scheme would have been extended to cover non injury/accident impairments. That would have been a step too far for ACC scheme and today we continue to have the obscene situation where a person disabled through absolutely no fault of their own has few rights and almost no entitlements compared to an ACC client (who in many cases knowingly took risks which led to their impairment).

        Children born with spina bifida have no entitlement for MOH funding for supports, while the person paralysed as a result of a drunken car crash can claim entitlement to all manner of supports.

        This 2013 paper, released after a joint ACC/Ministry of Health Spinal Cord impairment strategy compares ACC supports (and conditions for receiving them) with the paltry crumbs from MOH for the same disability.( Page 83 onwards for those bothered to read it.)

        Today..the only real change for those not enjoying the entitlements of ACC is that now…and only after Te Virus struck…spouses and partners of someone with very high care needs (such as my partner with a C4/5 spinal injury) can be paid for the care we provide.

        Just as well the extra $$$ are coming in from my wages, because we are now having to self- fund much more in the way of vital supplies and equipment.

        Under the Ministry of Health…there is absolutely no entitlement whatsoever to receive Ministry funded supports/treatment. If they choose not to fund…there is little to no comeback.

        The bastards keep disabled and their families in a constant state of insecurity.

        • RedLogix

          Yes ACC could and should have been a great deal more ambitious than it has turned out.

          We have an acquaintance here with significant head and upper body disabilities whose exact word to us were "NDIS has changed my life beyond all recognition". Another good friend who works professionally in this space describes it as a 'game changer'.

          Again nothing is perfect, there will always be critics, but take another look at that link and consider if NZ couldn't do something like that. Or these kind of specialist housing options.

    • weka 4.2

      If you have a link to a press release I can put it up as a post. Or if someone has written about this and is happy for me to cross post to TS.

    • Rosemary McDonald 4.3

      Hi Kay, thanks for reminiding us about this.

      Here's the Action Station page which gives some more detail about the hikoi and the overall aims…


      Why is this important?

      Everyone should feel included in our society and have access to opportunities. The Government has a responsibility to ensure disabled people can access their full and equal rights.

      They can do this by setting up an independent regulatory body that is led and run by disabled people. This will enable a society where disabled people can be fully included to be able to fully participate.

      There are many barriers disabled people face are because society is built inaccessibly. For too long disabled have been ignored and denied equitable access and it is long overdue to bring them in from the cold. If the Government was able to prioritise a Racing Ministry, why a regulatory body to oversee the rights and needs of disabled, led and run by disabled?

      Please support our petition to help us gain full, non-disabling access to society. Remember disability is the only identity that does not discriminate.

      • RedLogix 4.3.1

        Just as an aside – the first two units we built were done to a Universal Access standard, but when we tried to get HNZ interested at the time we just hit a brick wall.

        Non-disabled tenants love them all the same, but it's one thing I've always been a bit disappointed about.

        Needless to say we didn't go down the same path with the rest.

        • Rosemary McDonald

          Good to read you actually built units to a Universal Access standard, and I just don't understand why all new builds (providing the site is suitable) are not thus constructed.

          We've dealt with two builders over the past twenty regarding accessible build/renovation. An absolute bottomline, non negotiable condition is that all entrances are absolutely no-bump dead level. Sliding doors tracks do not have to sit proud of the floor…and twenty years ago we were able to sink those units into the slab. Just a few months ago we had to get quite stroppy with local joinery manufacturer in order to get the latest totally level entry profiles for our cottage renovation. Fellow was quite persistent that such a thing did not exist and was quite put out when I presented him with the opposition's pamphlet. Had he not been the builder's pet joinery supplier we would have told him to sling his hook. He simply had no desire to even think about meeting these access needs.

          Even he was impressed with the results when the ranchslider units he had grudgingly made for us fitted perfectly and were fit for purpose. Hoping we helped raise his consciousness.wink

          • RedLogix

            Now check this out. heart

            Tradies are like that; they tend to be good at what they know, and are often initially resistant to new things. Often for good reason, most new ideas turn out to be bad ones that cost them money.

            Still if you can handhold them through the process like you did, it can work out just fine.

      • KSaysHi 4.3.2

        Thanks! I forgot about the petition.

      • RedLogix 4.3.3

        Sorry to keep banging on about the Australian NDIS but I strongly suggest NZ activists in this space take a closer look at it where it came from and the principles that motivate it:

        The idea of a National Disability Insurance Scheme was first raised at the Australia 2020 Summit in 2008. The following year, the Australian Government announced that the Productivity Commission would hold a public inquiry into a long term disability care and support scheme. The Commission handed down its report in 2011 which found that the disability system was underfunded, unfair, fragmented and inefficient and gave people with disability, their families and carers little choice and no certainty of access to appropriate supports (see Productivity Commission Report ).

        In particular the principles are stated as:

        The NDIS is a social insurance scheme, not a welfare system. The NDIS is based on the following four insurance principles:

        • the total annual funding base required by the NDIS is determined by an actuarial estimate of the reasonable and necessary support needs of the target population. The NDIS continually compares these estimates of utilisation and costs with actual experience and outcomes;
        • the NDIS takes a lifetime approach (i.e. seeks to minimise support costs over a participant's lifetime) by investing in people early to build their capacity to help them pursue their goals and aspirations resulting in greater outcomes later in life;
        • the NDIS will invest in research and encourage innovation; and
        • the NDIS has the ability to act at the systemic level, as well as fund individual support needs. This is especially important for people with disability who are not participants
  4. Anne 5

    Glad to see Marama Davidson has called out Nicola Willis on her recent remarks.

    She took advantage of the murder of an English woman by a London cop and commented how she, too is afraid to walk around Central Wellington at night blah, blah blah.

    What has the tragedy in London got to do with an entitled woman who would never need to walk any streets at nights, and then tries to blame her 'plight' on inner city emergency housing as if they're murderers and thieves:


    Painting a picture of inner city criminal mayhem by the homeless in particular.

    Yep. Its racism and classism. of the worst kind.

    • Anker 5.1

      Have to say I disagree Anne. Wellington use to feel really safe. Hospo industry was commenting recently how this has change. Same with at Te Aro park.

      The inner city housing she may have been referring to was on the news one night and houses mostly people who are on probation. Wellington has also had problems with a gang called the nomads of late. Likely 501s play a roll.

      I was glad Willis said something……………and I am absolutely no fan of Willis.

      I think the deflected was from Davison

    • Jimmy 5.2

      What is racist about what Nicola Willis said? She didn't mention any race did she? I think Marama needs to think before she speaks. Other than re-claiming the "C" word what has she achieved? Even the reporter asked if she had actually done any work in the last 5 months.

    • Foreign Waka 5.3

      Not agreeing with you at all. Actually I think Marama Davison was opportunistic and tried the race card to get points from her supporters (whoever they are). This is a bully tactic. And all the while, just having meetings will not make a dent in the issue of homelessness. To have a reporter standing there with no answer to an important question of public interest, turning the back to them in arrogance is despicable. Perhaps we need to remind Mrs. Davidson who is paying her wages. Her position is not a right but a privilege. She was not voted in but appointed. Last time I looked, NZ was calling itself a democracy.

  5. Pataua4life 6

    Where in the article does Willis say anything about race?

    Pure dog whistle, cancel culture by Marama Davidson. She is hiding the fact that she has done absolutely sweet FA in here role and is been shown up as bloody useless.

    • David 6.1

      Agree. Deflect, deflect, deflect.

    • Anne 6.2

      Willis is the one who is dog whistling.

      She's using an incident in another country to ferment the racist tendencies of the law n' order brigade in NZ for political gain. Course she doesn't mention the word Maori, Pacific Islander, but the people she is talking to know what she is saying.

      I would not walk along any inner city road at night on my own. Its common sense and goes without saying. So why did she say it?

      By all means work to change things so that people can go walking at night and be safe, but tainting a whole race of people which is what she was snidely doing is not the way to go about it.

      • Rosemary McDonald 6.2.1

        I would not walk along any inner city road at night on my own. Its common sense and goes without saying.

        So. A person who walks along an inner city road at night on there own lacks common sense?

        Hmmm. Victim blaming, much?

        Davidson's reaction smacks of defensiveness. She damn well knows she's part of an administration that has done sweet FA to mitigate homelessness and the multitude of ills that accompany profound hopelessness.

        Course she doesn't mention the word Maori, Pacific Islander, but the people she is talking to know what she is saying.

        Interesting. We know Maori and Pasifika are over -represented in the homelessness stats and we all know that emergency housing seems to attract the negative attention of gangs who prey on vulnerable people. MSN has had numerous articles about this issue from Paihia to Auckland to Rotorua. Pointing out facts is not racist.

        Davidson has again gone off at the mouth end without thinking first. She'd be better off putting her energies into fixing some of this shit.

      • Foreign Waka 6.2.2

        Anne, I think you just try to justify the indefensible.

        • Anne

          And I think you're not reading comments properly or you don't grasp the nuances Willis is using to create political mischief.

    • aom 6.3

      Dog whistle: a subtly aimed political message which is intended for, and can only be understood by, a particular demographic group.

      It seems you have things the wrong way around with your comment Pataua4life. Nicola Willis's comment appears to have been the dog whistle and Marama Davidson responded, presumably on the basis of demographic knowledge. Feel free to check out the facilities, establish the ethnicities of the people in the inner city emergency housing, then come back to provide evidence to prove Marama Davidson was wrong with her response.

      • Anker 6.3.1

        aom……not a dog whistle but a real whistle in Wellington right now. I used to happily walk around Wellington Street in the city at night. Now,, not so much.

        • aom

          Glad if you now have a whistle to keep you safe in the city at night. Now all we have to worry about is you deafening some poor person who walks innocently past when you panic and blow it in their ear.

      • Anne 6.3.2

        @ aom

    • AB 6.4

      The primary purpose of housing the homeless is to improve the well-being of the homeless – it's not to make people like Willis feel safe. So she may simply be guilty of a sense of entitlement that places herself at the center of every calculation – scarcely a crime, but rather disqualifying in an aspiring politician.

      Alternatively or additionally, she may be mischief-making. Trying to scare middle-class Wellingtonians into thinking the streets aren't safe and that they will be attacked by (it doesn't need spelling out) brown people. This would just be solid National Party 'laura norder' campaigning – a successful tactic with a long history. So nothing unexpected there.

      Also – it's distinctly possible that homeless is making central Wellington objectively less safe. It's a bit on the nose for Willis, who belongs to a party that saw housing inequality and homelessness rise under their watch and now opposes any attempt to control the investor-driven demand side, to require an urgent solution. Arsonists don't get to call out the firemen – not even when the supposed firemen turn out to also be arsonists (as seems to be what is occurring)

      Davidson's response is understandable because of this slather of entitlement, mischief-making and hypocrisy that surrounds what Willis is saying. But it's not helpful – because it takes the whole discussion into the swamp of unwinnable culture wars. Best to get on with trying to fix or reduce the core problem.

      • Sabine 6.4.1

        The primary reason for people to seek shelter is to be safe from the elements, have a safe place to sleep and live and raise our families in them.

        The primary reason for a government to provide shelter/housing/food/social welfare etc for its citizen is to prevent social unrest.

        So yes, it should be the primary reason for all of us to want others to be housed, well fed, well cared for so that we a;; can stay a peaceful nation that allows for all of us to be save and not scared of a mugging, assault, sexual assault or death.

        And frankly we are doing a shitty job at housing us and preventing the resulting social unrest that comes with homelessness, hunger, poverty, and nothing to do all day long. And longterm that is going to be a problem for all of us, not just some women who works in Wellington and who does not feel safe anymore on her way home at night.

      • Anne 6.4.2

        Davidson's response is understandable because of this slather of entitlement, mischief-making and hypocrisy that surrounds what Willis is saying. But it's not helpful – because it takes the whole discussion into the swamp of unwinnable culture wars. Best to get on with trying to fix or reduce the core problem.

        Thank you AB, but fear it is a little too intelligent and insightful for the likes of P4l, David and Jimmy to comprehend. smiley

        • Anker

          Wow people…..A MP is talking about a real issue, i.e. not feeling safe walking in the CBD. The police report an increase in crime there (recent murder outside Te Papa) and hospo industry comment that they have never seen the levels in violence in the CBD like now. As a Wellington dweller I concur with this.

          Talk about invalidation guys

          Didn't appreciate your sarcasm, Aom, about me whistling at some innocent person. I was the victim of a nasty assault in a public place many years ago.

          • As I have said I don't have any time for Willis, but actually she is entitled to, I am entitled to and all women walking the streets in the CBD are entitled to feel safe……..otherwise what are we saying here? Too bad middle class women feel unsafe? Shame on all of you
          • Sabine
            • As I have said I don't have any time for Willis, but actually she is entitled to, I am entitled to and all women walking the streets in the CBD are entitled to feel safe……..otherwise what are we saying here? Too bad middle class women feel unsafe? Shame on all of you

            so good it had to be repeated. Thank you for pointing out that feeling safe has nothing to do with class, standing, race…………. Thanks.

          • Anne

            Anker, if you read what I've actually said – including the initial comment which started this conversation – neither I or those who have effectively supported my claim are talking about the right of women to be safe in the streets. It goes without saying we all should be able to do so without fear.

            We are talking about Willis using the occasion of a high profile murder case on the other side of the world to "dog whistle" for political gain.

            AB puts it succinctly when he says:

            The primary purpose of housing the homeless is to improve the well-being of the homeless – it's not to make people like Willis feel safe. So she may simply be guilty of a sense of entitlement that places herself at the center of every calculation – scarcely a crime, but rather disqualifying in an aspiring politician.

            Alternatively or additionally, she may be mischief-making. Trying to scare middle-class Wellingtonians into thinking the streets aren't safe and that they will be attacked by (it doesn't need spelling out) brown people. This would just be solid National Party 'laura norder' campaigning – a successful tactic with a long history. So nothing unexpected there.

            Personally I go with the latter but even if it was the former, it is bad form coming from an "aspiring to ultimate leadership" politician.

            Marama Davidson was well within her rights to make the distinction and call Nicola Willis out.

            • Anker

              Willis might have used the high profile case of the tragic murder in the UK. But actually many journos e.g. Rosemary McLeod and Verity Johnstone (I think that's her name) have written about that high profile case this week because sadly the situation where women feel unsafe is global. Can't think of anywhere in the world where women wouldn't share this fear.

              Willis teamed that case up with violence in the CBD that seemed o.k. to me because there has been an increase in violence in Wellington, not just in the CBD but in a suburb not too far away from where I live in Wellington which is being attributed to a gang.

              When I think of violence I always thing of men. And this is no difference.

              I don't have much tolerance for violence whoever the perpertrator is. I appreciate the local MP raising it. It is her job to raise local issues and to challenge the Minister who I think has a portfolio around violence towards women……..

    • David 6.5

      Marama is such an overworked MP as shown on the parliamentary website and perhaps a bit stressed, guess we have to cut her a bit of slack in her tweets shooting from the hip.

  6. greywarshark 7

    Compost has a good green sound about it so I don't think of waste from mining etc when I hear it mentioned. In Taranaki maybe I should. I think this is called 'greenwashing'.

    Remediation NZ is part of the Revital Group that produces compost and vermiculture products – many of them Biogro-certified.

    It is seeking to renew consents to discharge to land, water and air, which lapsed about two years ago.
    It is still permitted to accept various waste at Uruti – including oil and gas drilling cuttings and drilling fluids – to either compost or use in worm farming.

    "This has caused what's referred to in Remediation NZ's application as a 'legacy' issue, as they have been unable to sell this product off-site due to its association with drilling activities.
    "It also means that it has not produced any saleable compost from the site in the last 10 years, other than the vermicast."

    Sarah Roberts from the environmental lobby group Taranaki Energy Watch was thankful the site stopped accepting oil and gas waste in December…
    "Conservatively 40,000 cubic metres of drilling materials came in, but for four or five years the council said there was very little record taking and so really the whole process of our submission is trying to find out what happened to it and what's going to happen to it?…

    "I guess if you really looked at that drilling waste pile – more than 20,000 tonne – I guess you'd start to think this potentially looks more like a landfill than it does a composting facility.

  7. McFlock 8

    Interesting – the button/rubbish bin transmissions in MIQ might actually have been rare micro-aerosol transmission.

    Rare events, even so, but it does show how random buildings aren't entriely suited to quarantine facilities. There's the traffic/surface contacts, but also the quarantine rooms should really be negative-pressure environments instead of positive (i.e. draughts under doors, but the air is sucked out then filtered before release, rather than blown directly in and then sucked out of the hallway).

    I know a government hotel system might be too much to ask in this era, but subsidising some hotels provided they meet MIQ adaptation standards could be an idea. This won't be the last time we have a global issue. Even if the country isn't fully cut off, having some quarantine beds for the next sars/ebola scare could be useful.

    • RedLogix 8.1

      Agree with you on this one totally. Hotels located in urban areas are considerably less than ideal for the purpose. Quarantine stations used to be quite spartan affairs located well outside city or town boundaries.

      Northern Territories repurposed an unused mine camp with great success.

      It's worked very well for them.

    • greywarshark 8.2

      Considering the on-going findings about Covid 19 and its possibility for return as later serious disease, the transmission of it should be a high concern to control. One idea that should be looked at is the closing of the lid of the toilet before flushing; the rush of water sprays up and there must be a small mix of droplets from the bowl. If there is some escape then it will hit at knee level not rise to the nose. It should be adopted as another limiting activity.

      Mar.11/21 https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/communication/responder-stories/revealing-many-faces-covid19.html

      Jul.9/20 https://health.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/diagnostics/scientists-warn-of-potential-wave-of-covid-linked-brain-damage/76871205

      • McFlock 8.2.1

        Well, it should be a concern for facility designers and operators. Not so much for anyone else (except, wear your masks).

        The reason these instances don't have confirmed transmission avenues (it's a good hypothesis, maybe better than surface contact, but it's still not quite a slam dunk) is because their transmission avenue (no skin-skin contact or direct aerosol exposure) is relatively rare. It's big enough to be regularly attributable when we have hundreds or thousands of cases, but a few dozen cases at any one time? This form of transmission is not exactly a daily or weekly occurrence in NZ, and it's not frequent enough to keep an outbreak going by itself.

        The main transmission avenues are sustained exposure in poorly venitlated and densely populated environments. Planes, bars, nightclubs, theatres, tour coachs, cruise ships, supermarkets, churches, schools.

        The occasional case outside those areas is something to try to identify and eliminate, but not to the extent that normal folks lose sleep over it.

  8. greywarshark 9


    University of Canterbury education researcher David Pomeroy, who has done previous research on implicit racial bias in streaming of maths, was alarmed by the findings.

    "I wanted to understand why students from different backgrounds – different ethnic, socioeconomic and gender backgrounds – seem to approach school subjects in such different ways and why we end up on such different paths depending on those backgrounds.

    I wonder if he has been asking all the questions he needs to? Many of the young people might say they wanted to do what their friends and family do. In other words they choose to stay in a cohort that moves on together and does not wish to go on to more education other than a course aimed at immediate employment.

    If parents don't see the advantages of further education, then that would mean less reason to consider it by the youngster. And the parents may feel they are being practical, that extra expense studying won't be met with a job in their area. Maybe study would take them away from their home area, and their family, and/or their friends and also the job, so they would break the family solidarity and mutual support.

    I think that a package that a family signs up to, which would include a responsible employer in the district offering an apprenticeship to a young person who succeeded at a basic, starter course at 'tech and would then have proved their ability to learn and follow directions, and would be able to handle future block courses, would start more youngsters on the higher skills road.

    And perhaps an adult course could be offered in computer use, reading and technical jargon, or cooking and health and exercise, for the parent would bring them into a learning circle, and more likely to think favourably of further training. The ideal would be to have a group of mothers and fathers from the area attending such courses, picked up by a small bus and dropped off home before school came out at no cost to them. Then whole families, even streets, could get into a different line of thinking; the tide would lift all boats sort of thing.

    • Stuart Munro 9.1

      that extra expense studying won't be met with a job in their area

      That's certainly been my experience – and I did read a paper on drivers of NZ suicide a while back, that pointed to chronic underemployment. I'm sure Stats are oblivious however. Stepping out of one's assigned class in a saturated job market not only won't get you a job, you'll get labeled a troublemaker.

  9. greywarshark 10

    What about the mothers. Where are our caring and responsible standards fro families especially mothers in NZ?? We are just a bunch of fudgers and liars I think. I'm so disappointed with this country and its attitudes that have deteriorated badly. Mothers particularly need more care so how about mother Jacinda?


  10. Anker 11

    Willis might have used the high profile case of the tragic murder in the UK. But actually many journos e.g. Rosemary McLeod and Verity Johnstone (I think that's her name) have written about that high profile case this week because sadly the situation where women feel unsafe is global. Can't think of anywhere in the world where women wouldn't share this fear.

    Willis teamed that case up with violence in the CBD that seemed o.k. to me because there has been an increase in violence in Wellington, not just in the CBD but in a suburb not too far away from where I live in Wellington which is being attributed to a gang.

    When I think of violence I always thing of men. And this is no difference.

    I don't have much tolerance for violence whoever the perpetrator is. I appreciate the local MP raising it. It is her job to raise local issues and to challenge the Minister who I think has a portfolio around violence towards women……..

    If I have misunderstood you I apologise

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