Elon Musk had demanded that Twitter employees sign on to his new "hardcore" culture. Apparently, many are replying with their feet.
Queenie Wong, Sean Keane
Nov. 17, 2022 9:16 p.m. PT
…..Musk tweeted a meme with Twitter's logo on a grave stone.
The remaining 3,500 or so employees who were left at Twitter after thousands were laid off had a choice to make at the end of the day on Nov. 17: Remain under Musk's plan for an intense "Twitter 2.0" or leave with three months of severance pay.
Facebook, Amazon and Twitter are all in trouble anyway. (Not that I ever gave a shit about them – most social media is a mental illness factory.)
Either Musk does nothing and Twitter dies slowly but surely, or he attempts radical surgery. If Twitter dies anyway he will have done spent a lot of his money doing us all a public service (and a whole lot of skilled technical people will be released onto the US economy to do something else hopefully more useful) – or if something 2.0 arises from the chaos everyone will be calling him a genius yet again.
Save it now I recon. Quick re-write from scratch by some brash newish Twitter coder and its all sorted, back to full steam on Twitter. Not sure if Musk has experience with this approach, but how hard could it be anyway.
The real cost of money has appreciated to expose overvalued assets,zombie companies (and assets) and overpriced workers in the tech and service economies.
There will also be exposure to over reliance of tech,and the replacement of tax revenues will be difficult in say California,or worse in Ireland (where half the corporate tax comes from 10 companies)
I recon the people who answer yes to that question, "can actually write software" have an exaggerated sense of their own abilities. Musk's way of saying, maximum 6 months experience required to be a Senior Twitter Coder, I guess.
Andrew Gunn on page B5 in the Christchurch Press satirises Luxon, boot camps and a 'hard core of young, anti-social, born-to-rule chinless wonders" who are at risk of being 'parachuted into a safe seat for life.'
"They see no consequences whatsoever and believe they can get away with whatever they want".
I always get a bit sad that they have to put the label satire on these columns. We have become such literalists. It pains me to think that the appreciation of all these fabulous uses of language/figures of speech are incapable of being read and recognised for what they are.
There's a wee side swipe in the Gunn piece at the cares to which you allude. He even satirises the legal need for alleging allegations.
' "… to your sharers of inappropriate sexual images to your leakers of sensitive information for political purposes. All alleged, of course." (Thanks for that- Editorial legal team)'
first speaker (position = trans rights are not up for debate and it was wrong to invite Kathleen Stock to be part of the debate) just made the proposition that because we have the right to say something doesn't mean we should say it. Not sure they intended this, but it came across as: you have the right to say something, but it's wrong to say it.
Don't think he's made an argument to support that.
summarises the point of contention as definition of what is a man/woman, but refuses to debate this because that's debating trans people.
Instead they're going to look at Stock's actions eg tweets and support.
Starting with the LGB Alliance, they appear to make a number of negative assertions about LGBA (some of which are almost certainly not true and/or a misrepresentation of the LGBA position), and then asserts that Stock's involvement with the organisation is akin to having the same positions.
LGBA do 'truly reprehensible things', therefore support cannot be defensible. They don't provide evidence for the assertion of truly reprehensible. I don't know if this is normal in formal debate.
someone calls a point of order, that Kaldicott is not making a propositional case.
Kaldicott clarifies that he is supporting the motion (the right to offend), and is making the case for how this should be used and how Stock has not done this in an appropriate manner.
Stock's twitter and support for JK Rowling. Again, makes assertions but no real argument other than that he finds both women's positions abhorrent.
As a non-binary person, Kaldicott feels that living in the UK and looking at MSM it's impossible not to be miserable, it's impossible to listen to the voices on this topic and not be miserable, and so on. Stock and others disgust Kaldicott.
Ok, but why did they need 10 mins to the same basic things over and over?
Chair makes a statement that the speakers must address the proposition (this house believes in the right to offend), rather than focusing on other speakers.
second speaker, opposition to motion, Teodor Grama. Protest outside, agrees with protestors, it's wrong that the topic is being debated at the CU, but believes the debate is going to happen anyway so better to be involved.
His main argument is more interesting – that his side of the debate has the ability for nuance whereas the affirming side of 'right to offend' doesn't (the latter is a position that all offense is acceptable as free speech).
He uses Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses as an example of speech that many find offensive, but the offense is outweighed by the social good of the book.
His side wants to say some offense serves a social good, but there are other offenses that are unacceptable. He names homophobia, transphobia, racism and all 'other' forms of prejudice. He doesn't say who gets to decide. I will note that he didn't name misogyny (pertinent because prejudice against women is increasingly being made invisible as a social justice issue despite half the human population being female, and because lots of progressive men are complicit in this).
talking now about why the right to offend "is not a mere legal prohibition on state censorship". Why are we having this debate? Because various commentators have expressed offensive views in various forms. Names Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, and JK Rowling, as three examples (spot the difference 🙄).
They haven't complained about not being legally allowed to speak, they've complained about cancel culture and deplatforming (says the young white man privileged enough to attend Cambridge University). He calls this backlash and social sanction, and goes on to make the assertion that the affirmative side, in supporting the right to offend is also saying that society should accept all speech without intervention, and that it is "illegitimate to restrict the proliferation of such views through any social means we have available, protest or otherwise"
This is clearly a nonsense. While the libertarian side of the free speech debate might be closer to that, gender critical feminists are clearly not saying that at all. Which makes me think he doesn't know what the GC views are (hence him grouping JKR with JP and Shapiro). Maybe he has no class analysis either and can't recognise left/right wing political positions and how they change meaning of GC.
In other words, he is saying that the right to offend must give 'fair hearing' to racism, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, transphobia, homophobia (the omission of misogyny is glaring now). He's trying to put the opposition view into a box of his making, rather than understanding it in its own terms and then critiquing it.
This is particularly relevant because Kathleen Stock's starting position as a philosopher is that we should be able to argue our opponent's position in a way that is fair to them, before we criticise it.
It's a feature of the gender/sex wars that genderists generally can't or won't do that. This is true of the first two speakers (who are genderists).
He now talks about why the affirmative can't meaningfully make a case for their position. The necessity of giving all views a fair hearing without censure means that individuals cannot respond in the free market of idea based on their own views, desires, values etc. It's an infringement on autonomy for people to listen to what they want and respond.
We do place restrictions eg on politicians during elections, and this serves a good social purpose.
Now he argues that offensive views generate more harm than social good (seems unaware of the irony of his views being offensive and thus being harmful, lol). He uses a broad category here of marginalised, minority people, vulnerable groups, who are denied free expression because of fear of ridicule and attacks. That the offensive views (which he hasn't defined) dehumanise them and infringe on their dignity).
Sidebar here. Penny just dropped. I think he's talking about trans people being the worst oppressed people,
… bombarded from all sides with all sorts of rhetoric and discourse that dehumanises them, that makes them feel horrible, that makes them feel incapable of engaging properly
but he's also as a white man talking about how white men are now treated by society. I doubt this is conscious, but it does explain why so many blokes feel much more affinity with trans people than they do with women. It also explains the refusal to understand or take seriously left wing GCF views. It's the patriarchy in action, make women the baddies. He goes on to say that people who make others feel this way should be deplatformed. Feminists eh, the ones who insist that feminism is politics for females.
Speakers from the floor. First one is another white dude arguing against women's rights to single sex spaces 🙄 Using an argument that opposition to gender mixed toilets comes from the right.
Speaker abstaining, another white man saying the debate has been a waste of his time because the speakers have failed to engage with points of information on comments they have made that are controversial and worthy of discussion. Sniping comments have been made about the guest speaker (Stock) and the first speaker basically ran an attack on her. The topic is worthy of debate, there are historical and contemporary reasons why, and it should be treated with more respect. Man standing up and arguing for debate rather than rhetoric.
Speaker opposing the motion, young black man, hard to hear as he didn't have a mike, but seems to be saying that the power that a person has matters in terms of the impact of what they say. Talking about something at the university, one of the departments and professors talking about race intelligence? Offensive words are made to harm, the house should oppose the right to offend.
Just realised that the background noise is the protest outside (using sound to disrupt people speaking is a common tactic of the genderist side).
Kathleen Stock was clearly nervous and you could hear the loud groups of protesters outside desperate to disrupt proceedings. But kudos to her for standing up and speaking out on behalf of a basic democratic right — to say things that some find heretical or offensive. She has bigger cojones than most of us.
Prof. Arif Ahmed from Cambridge (from about 1:14:00) was very eloquent and made his points graciously about public discourse in a democracy — and how the "right not to be offended" is always used by the dominant group in society to shut down dissent e.g. the governments of China or Iran. His closing quotes:
“Take away the right to say ‘fuck’ and you take away the right to say ‘fuck the government.”
― Lenny Bruce
"This freedom of speech and these human rights were paid for by generations long ago, and they were paid for in courage and in blood. They weren't designed to make us comfortable; they were designed to keep us free."
― Baroness Chakrabarti
Kathleen Stock excellent and she looked rattled. Understandably so. Must have brought back the harrassment (masked men on campas calling to get rid of Stock).
Kathleen Stock, philosopher, former professor, author, lesbian (wouldn't normally mention that but the whole lesbians should have sex with trans identified males is the context).
She starts by saying that she's not going to respond to the things that have been said about her, although she obviously disagrees. It's fine for people to say what they want to say. She's going to respond to the debate question: is there a right to offend?
Newshub: Jacinda was hugely complimented at APEC in Thailand yesterday…
Jacinda Ardern is in Thailand for the APEC meeting, heading straight to a CEO Summit. There, she was given an embarrassment of compliments in an introduction to her speech.
Ardern was described as: "The most effective leader on the planet… the greatest thinker of the COVID era."
"I almost felt slightly embarrassed by the generosity of it," she said afterwards.
"A prophet in her own country", at least for some.
Meanwhile Luxon is now being satirised at home for doughnut politics where you u-turn on a u-turn of a u-turn, his ridiculous re-invention of militaristic boot-camp intervention and National's inability to see the effects on poor candidate selections by the interventions of powerful ruling elites.
Labour party seems set to sacrifice principles for convenience once again. Which would be surprising, except it really isn't.
I don't comment much on this site anymore; given the suffocating transphobia that I find it healthier to avoid subjecting myself to. But did participate in discussion around the proposed Incitement to Discrimination law changes the other year. So it seemed appropriate to mention this development here, rather than my usual online discussion places. At least until I get some of the disgust I feel for those craven poll chasers out of my system. I was liking being a swing voter, now I have much fewer voting options (never ACT, certainly not Luxon Nats, and now with Labour stacking gutlessness upon gutlessness – I am left with few choices next year).
Proposed last year in response to the March 15 terror attack and the Royal Commission report that followed, the reforms were due to expand protections to women, religious groups and rainbow and disabled communities, among others. As it stands, only hate speech on the basis of race, skin colour or national origin is prohibited…
However, Newsroom understands, the scope of the reforms is likely to be severely curtailed. Justice Minister Kiri Allan has discussed only adding religion to the list of protected grounds and making no further changes to hate speech law…
A related programme to reform hate crimes, which are offences like assault or vandalism committed with a hateful motive, may be stalled, Newsroom also understands. Hate crime reforms were another recommendation from the Royal Commission, which the Government accepted in principle in 2020.
The transphobia cultivated here is an ongoing shame. And another pissweak backdown from Labour to please who? The fearful old people who would vote for Winston or the Nats anyway.
Please stop trolling. If you want to have a conversation on TS about transphobia, then have the conversation rather than making vague digs that can’t be responded to meaningfully.
Merely wanted to make sure a commenter who said "I don't comment much on this site anymore; given the suffocating transphobia that I find it healthier to avoid subjecting myself to" did not see the only response being a denial of their reality. Not expecting your small group to change their minds.
[that’s not the problem, it’s how you did it. I see from your response that you won’t stop trolling, so take a week off. When you come back you are welcome to talk about transphobia, and/or affirm other people’s realities, but you cannot troll here. If you want an explanation of the difference, then ask – weka]
You do realise, all you have done is to confirm everything that Sacha said?
The first irony is that this is the very reason the Labour Party has failed to make much progress with legislation. All the nuance, such as tightening up on the definition of what speech is in breech counts for nought, because of a fear that woke/PC activists will make groundless complaints to police to de-platform others.
The second irony is that G-CF see themselves as victims of the same de-platforming
You do realise, all you have done is to confirm everything that Sacha said?
Please explain. Because no, I don't know what you are meaning. Use your words. It might be obvious to you, it’s not to me (I was just modding as I do based on a pattern of behaviour of someone who should know better and I didn’t want to waste any more of my time on it. Something that is also consistent with most mods here).
The first irony is that this is the very reason the Labour Party has failed to make much progress with legislation. All the nuance, such as tightening up on the definition of what speech is in breech counts for nought, because of a fear that woke/PC activists will make groundless complaints to police to de-platform others.
Again, don't know which legislation you are referring to. But as with Three Waters, there are a range of reasons for opposition. People who try and box it into for/progressive and against/bigots do the country a massive disservice.
The second irony is that GCF see themselves as victims of the same de-platforming
and again, what is your point? Women's Place UK did have an event dropped by Eventbrite, allegedly because of EB's hateful speech policy. We will see if that stands, because the legal precedents have been established in UK law already that gender critical views are protected under law.
Sigh .. the being required to repeat myself to explain …
You do realise, all you have done is to confirm everything that Sacha said? Which was
Merely wanted to make sure a commenter who said "I don't comment much on this site anymore; given the suffocating transphobia that I find it healthier to avoid subjecting myself to" did not see the only response being a denial of their reality.
Onto
Again, don't know which legislation you are referring to.
Sigh – it's obviously that under discussion from 6 on. The long proposed change to legislation on hate speech (as to what it covers and in what way.
As for what was the point of my observation about those who practice de-platforming while complaining about it themselves – I will refer to the post of roblogic below still on 6
People who believe in trans theology/gender theory are perfectly within their rights to do so. Trying to evangelise others and force them into a belief system that they find idiotic (to put it politely) is what gets their backs up.
OTOH those who hold to trans theology/gender theory as a vital part of their identity have a right to feel aggrieved or offended when their religious beliefs are mocked. But that goes for any culture. It feels bad when Māori culture is sidelined or suppressed, or when my own religion is trashed in the news.
Doesn't give me a right to cancel the free speech of others or to force them to submit to my beliefs.
Sigh .. the being required to repeat myself to explain …
You can imagine how I feel being expected to engage with someone @ing me on a Saturday over a moderation when they can’t even be bothered to explain themselves.
You do realise, all you have done is to confirm everything that Sacha said? Which was
Merely wanted to make sure a commenter who said “I don’t comment much on this site anymore; given the suffocating transphobia that I find it healthier to avoid subjecting myself to” did not see the only response being a denial of their reality.
So not everything Sacha said, but this one specific thing. What have I confirmed? You still haven’t explained. I’ll guess. You think that Sacha shouldn’t have been banned because he’s needed here to make sure that Temp doesn’t feel something? Why should someone who is obviously trolling be given allowances when others aren’t?
Again, don’t know which legislation you are referring to.
Sigh – it’s obviously that under discussion from 6 on. The long proposed change to legislation on hate speech (as to what it covers and in what way.
Again, it’s not obvious. I wasn’t reading the thread for content, I was reading it to moderate. They’re two different things. Sometimes moderators use the comment flow in the back end and we don’t see the whole conversation in context, we just see someone with a pattern of behaviour trolling and we intervene.
As for what was the point of my observation about those who practice de-platforming while complaining about it themselves – I will refer to the post of roblogic below still on 6
People who believe in trans theology/gender theory are perfectly within their rights to do so. Trying to evangelise others and force them into a belief system that they find idiotic (to put it politely) is what gets their backs up.
OTOH those who hold to trans theology/gender theory as a vital part of their identity have a right to feel aggrieved or offended when their religious beliefs are mocked. But that goes for any culture. It feels bad when Māori culture is sidelined or suppressed, or when my own religion is trashed in the news.
Doesn’t give me a right to cancel the free speech of others or to force them to submit to my beliefs.
Still no idea what you are on about. I know what Rob means. I don’t know what you mean. Nothing worthwhile bothering with as apparently you can’t be arsed explaining. Maybe I’ll guess again. You think the moderating trolls is a suppression of free speech and I shouldn’t have done it. Who the fuck knows though.
We are here for the robust debate. Stop expecting people to mind read, make your argument or go away, because I don’t want to be wasting my time.
I did not see the support for Temp Orary view (first post and latter in his response to others) as trolling (but supportive to a greater diversity of contributor and involvement on "gender ID" debates). And otherwise his posts on 6 were in relation to the hate speech law itself and added to the debate.
thanks, now I understand. Can you please say that up front next time?
I didn’t moderate Sacha for his political content. He was moderated for his pattern of behaviours trolling.
I’m fine with people offering support and solidarity to Temp (or anyone). What is not ok is the sly digs all the way through. Intentional digs imo. If Sacha wanted to talk about the issues, he should have talked about the issues. If he wanted to support Temp, he can do that without the digs. The digs are the trolling, not the desire to offer support. I think trans people here do deserve more support. However this is a political blog, and there are substantial politics involved, ones that Sacha is largely in denial about and refuses to engage with. That’s his choice, but he can’t have it both ways.
I also won’t countenance left wing men making derogatory trolling comments about feminists. That’s just bullshit on a site like this. Sacha is well aware of just how difficult it is for feminists to write and comment here, so I can only take his support for Temp and digs at feminists and him picking a very particular side. He can do this of course, but he can’t troll from that. He has a history of this now, and it’s time it stopped. He can either front up and engage in the debate or he can keep his digs to himself.
In repsonse to Weka re SUFW not really left wing. They did a survery of themselves and most of them were Green/Labs.
Early on they were accused on not caring about other feminists causes. So they listed annonymously all the causes they had been involved with e.g Sos abortion services in the 1970s, The SB tour, rape crisis. The list is impressive. I am trying to post the link to the page but having some difficulty.
Nope no go, but visit SUFW and click on who we are for interest.
SPC "G-CF see themselves as victims of the same deplatforming"
But actually gender critical feminists experienced a significant de platforming, when SUFW tried to have meetings about the self id gender bill to discuss this legislation in public libraries. They were smeared and mis represented and one by one their meetings were shut down by the libraries.
SUFW then took Palmerston North Library to the High Court and won the right to hold their meeetings. The High Court judges declared SUFW was not a hate group.
In all my years of activism, I have never had this experience before and this was a group of women who are largely feminist, left wing and non denominational.
I apprecaite the Standard every day as a place I can exercise my free speech
I did have a (way too long) comment written yestereve that I decided to put aside unposted. Not least because it might be taken, in part, as criticism of site moderators. I may recycle it from word processor folder next week when Sacha is allowed to participate in the discourse again.
Does their banning expire on next Saturday or Sunday?
There are a number of gender critical women (and some men) on this site, who don't agree with gender ideology or queer theory.
For me not only do I not accept these theories (although I accept the right of people to believe them), I see a lot of harmful things about these ideologies that are not get reported in the NZ media.
Amongst other things
The medicalization for children and young people with a mental disorder known as gender dysphoria. I have grave concerns that young people are being offered affirmative gender care that doesn't question why a young person might be feeling so distressed with their sexed body. Fast tracking kids to puberty blockers and then cross sex hormones rather than providing them with appropriate exploratory therapy to get to the bottom of their distress. Overseas countries such as the UK, France and Finland have rolled back use of PB . Reluctantly NZ Health was forced to change the advice on their website that PB are safe and fully reversible.
I believe in biological reality, that women are a sex class that need and deserve their own protected speaces in as much as they should have women only change rooms, prisons, refuges, accommodation, sporting competitions and scholarships etc.
I feel no shame whatsoever that I am speaking up about this.
Shame is always a tool used by cults. If you do not adhere to the beliefs of the cult. If you question the premises of the cult; in this instance the premise that one can choose ones gender and children should helped to do so with drugs and surgery then you should feel ashamed. Cults will also disfellowship people in other words cancel them and refuse to engage with them.This is very unhealthy and causes much harm. Why not engage and talk to other people and find out what they think and why. This is one of the things I really like about the standard.
What do you think would be the appropriate punishment for a social and colonial construct who refuses to feel shame for not believing in transubstantiation?
100 lashes with leaf lettuce from Luxon’s Bic Mac and mandatory reprogramming in Luxon’s boot camp by having to listen to all his episodes of QT until you feel tears of sorrow, pity, and shame and vote for anything but Labour or Green Party.
People, especially self-righteous ones, are so quick to judge, especially when they miss the meaning of words and misunderstand and/or misinterpret the concepts, analogies, and metaphors used by others with whom they have already decided to disagree
As with many subjective comments rather than rational reasoned debates, judging one’s humour as funny or not is highly subjective. Perhaps it wasn’t humour per se but a means to convey something without making it sound too harsh in order to make it more palatable to those who are less receptive because of the dogmatic walls they have erected/constructed.
The first part of my comment was, of course, about (public) flogging and shaming as a form of punishment and a tool of manipulation. Public shaming is very common in sexual hate speech, as you know. Flogging with word salads is common here too; TS has its own Grand Executioner, who shall not be named right now, and some self-righteous regulars just love it.
I’m happy to expand and elaborate on my comment to demonstrate the underlying politics and political message that involves public shaming and invoking shame and conscience on this political blog to score points rather than to further/foster constructive debate. It may show you that there was actually an awful lot of content packed into that brief ‘inane’ comment of mine, which you happened to miss or ignore. Just say the word
". It may show you that there was actually an awful lot of content packed into that brief ‘inane’ comment of mine, which you happened to miss or ignore. Just say the word "
People who believe in trans theology/gender theory are perfectly within their rights to do so. Trying to evangelise others and force them into a belief system that they find idiotic (to put it politely) is what gets their backs up.
OTOH those who hold to trans theology/gender theory as a vital part of their identity have a right to feel aggrieved or offended when their religious beliefs are mocked. But that goes for any culture. It feels bad when Māori culture is sidelined or suppressed, or when my own religion is trashed in the news.
Doesn't give me a right to cancel the free speech of others or to force them to submit to my beliefs.
Did you really mean 'transubstantiation' in its usual theological meaning:
'the conversion of the substance of the Eucharistic elements into the body and blood of Christ at consecration, only the appearances of bread and wine still remaining'.
or
Transubstantiation is, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, "the change of the whole substance of bread into the substance of the Body of Christ and of the whole substance of wine into the substance of the Blood of Christ"
These are long term uses of language. The trans debate has already cost bio women much in human rights with the lack of guaranteed access to safe spaces. Personally I would be unhappy if the trans debate also claimed a serviceable and specific word to its uses.
NB I support human rights ie no discrimination for transgender people but not at the cost of hard fought for human rights for women.
Or were you meaning it in the context of an Emperors New Clothes or Alice (words mean what I want them to mean).
In which case it is a very clever use.
transubstantiation,,,,,that the anti female trans community says happens to them even without any genital surgery, ie they magically turn to bio females.
I'd be happier though with the use of consubstantiation to represent my idea of what happens. Blood & wine of Christ are represented by wine and water. Trans women look like women but are not women.
Again reinforcing that no-one should be denied human rights or subject to insult by the way they look.
"I support anyone's right to be who they want to be. My question is: to what extent do I have to participate in your self-image?"
I would add to that quote, at what stage am i allowed to opt out of participating in someone elses self image as a validation tool, specially when it starts to endanger those like me and removes my rights and the language that i need to advocate for myself and those like me.
Anyone can pretend/believe that an unleavened wafer and a drop of bad wine is the body and the blood of Christ, and anyone should be allowed to not believe that same thing. In the end, it is only an unleavened wafer and a drop of bad wine.
Ditto for people who would like to pretend that they are the other sex. They are not. They can present stereotypically feminine or masculine, but no male has ever given birth and no female has ever inseminated another.
And it will also not happen in the future. These are just basic facts of life. And we should be able to admit these realities, and build on that.
Disclaimer: I lived for nine years in a convent and well, i don't do submission and obedience very well i guess.
Thankfully the school I went to Anglican, prided itself of growing, for want of a better word, stroppy females prepared to question. We led a huge revolt when a headmaster tried to move us from middlebrow Anglican to High Anglican, with all sorts of prayers throughout the day. To do this meant urgent research on all matters theological so we could marshall our arguments. So we were not submissive either.
I would add to that quote, at what stage am i allowed to opt out of participating in someone elses self image as a validation tool, specially when it starts to endanger those like me and removes my rights and the language that i need to advocate for myself and those like me.
No NZ government on our history has advanced the interests of the trans community like this one in both legal protection and directed health expenditure.
What this government needs to work on more is protecting them from physical harm.
The survey on how well NZPolice are dealing with the massively high proportion of violence against trans and binary people will have useful results for Police and for comparing against the last Crime and Victims Survey.
That article demonstrates very little evidence of harm, but rather survey respondents self- perception of harm:
"…including the fear of being discriminated against…"
This is a particular interesting example, worth further discussion:
""We have seen changes, for example if a trans woman is being assaulted by her husband, and he says that's because he's found out she's trans, that will no longer be treated as an excuse," she says."
So, let's go through this:
(NB: Framed as a long-term relationship through the use of husband, implying marriage and previous intimate knowledge, but is relevant in terms of any intimate relationship, including casual sex.)
Domestic assault regardless of identity is treated as such, regardless of the excuses offered by the abuser.
A reaction to finding out your sexual partner is not the sex you thought they were, leads to questions about:
sex by deception;
sexual consent;
and the right to have respected your sexual orientation.
Looking for information regarding this issue from our own advisory rainbow community organisations, it is not fully addressed, while they advocate consent be agreed upon, they also advise that as a transperson you are not compelled to "out yourself" to anyone.
If you engage in a sexual act with someone who you know has a sexual orientation that excludes you as an intimate partner, and know that they perceive you to be another sex, and you not only don't rectify that perception but encourage it – is this either sex by deception, sexual orientation conversion of some type, or both?
The article also tucks in misgendering as a violent act, and uses the actual violence perpetrated on bisexual (report linked to includes lesbians and gays) and extrapolates it to the whole LGBTQ+ community.
"The report also found that 47 percent of bisexual adults are likely to experience crime over a 12-month period compared with 30 percent for the New Zealand average.
Lesbian or gay adults during their lifetime will experience more than double the rate of sexual violence from their partners at 33 percent compared to the New Zealand average of 16 percent."
Thousands of officials were emailed for “transgender awareness week” and told it was “vital that we keep scaremongering and misinformation at bay”, with trans hate crimes up 56 per cent in a year.
The email, marked “official sensitive” and sent this month through the HM Prison and Probation Service (HMPPS) diversity and inclusion team, has been leaked to The Telegraph.
In order to “be an active ally”, staff were given a glossary titled “recognising transphobic coded language”, which contained 35 everyday phrases that it claimed were “turning what would be considered overt discrimination into covert behaviour”.
However, the document claims it is a “self-selected label to denote holding anti-trans views, it’s a term used to make anti-trans discrimination sound palatable or a respectable opinion” and warns staff to look out for social media accounts that hold this view.
Also listed is “protect women’s spaces/protecting women and girls”, which it says “relies on equating trans women with being predatory men, to play on unfounded fears and convince people that supporting trans inclusion threatens their safety”.
The ground was lost a long time ago, now they are just making it public for those that thought that there was still a ‘fight’ going on. And all the major parties agree to this, just like they all agree on hate speech laws and the likes.
in the UK that's not true. Case law has now established that GC beliefs are protected against discrimination. It appears where there is push back the genderist stuff falls (seems to be happening with the arresting people for tweets thing too). Public pressure is helping, more people are speaking up.
It will probably take another court case to test HMPPS policy and whether it is legal. These are not minimal gains, they are serious ones. It means that in the UK Judges ultimately get to decide what is fair and reasonable, not MPs.
I can also speak English while having a German conversation with my relatives which always is quite funny as it takes some time to switch of. In essence they speak German, my brain understands it but my answers come in English and i did the same while living in France and visiting home.
But i am an easy learner of languages speaking and reading- but i can't write for the life of me in any language, that really demands effort and literally hurts my brain.
I also dream in German, English and French.
Edit: i do however not translate from German into English or French, i simply speak these languages with the vocabulary i have and am continuously adding new words to hat vocabulary.
Edit to my previous comment re thinking in a foreign language.
While the voice in my head speaks english – i don't consider myself as thinking.
If i were to live in full immersion of Te Reo i would soon enough speak Te Reo. With of course horrible grammar and all that, but i would be able to survive in a place where that would be the only language spoken. If that makes sense to you?
This is it actually, i don't think the language i hear it. Language has a sound, ones the sound becomes familiar the sentences have beginnings and ends, the words suddenly jump out and you can literally see them as individuals. Advertising on telly is great for it as you have the action/product, the written word and the sound. Link the sound to the image of the word and the action / product so easy. My favorite TV show at the time a brilliant music telly production called Taratata with Nagui.
But the best tools for learning a language is a dictionary with phonetic writing in them, which i had for english. Hence why I have some abilities to communicate in the written word.
For your other discussion the word that i would have used -specially in that context would have been Whenua.
It is just us that thought that at least a few may care what happens to the non persons that birthed them, that are their offspring, that are their partners. And that these few may find some spine and guts and heart to fight for these things in their lives.
But i think the ones that will find this hardest to deal with these changes are those with education. The poor among us already know this and in many places live their life without dignity, safety and respect. And other then lip service nothing is paid to their plight. The difference between the Taliban in Afghanistan and the Taliban in England is simple. The one hides their property under a bedsheet for ‘protection’ the other erases every mention of their property in public records, removes the words that used to describe them, and pretends its progressive and good for all. The effects are the same.
And the educated PHD holding and sitting in Parliament Serena Joys of this world will learn it in due time, as will the dears in our political parties that still feel so progressive about their pronouns and daily linguistic incantations to affirm their loyalty to the cause.
I understand why young ones cut of their breast and inject anabolic steroids like it was a saline solution, it is their way out of this misery and hopefully be accorded the privilege of being male and thus granted a chance at a decent life.
We are now effectively back in the times were the word women did not appear in any legal texts, were women were incomplete men in the medical texts and washing hands was not something to expect from a doctor, were women are property to birth , clean and provide sexual services and other free of charge labour, were women are things to own, use and dispose of. And anyone even just daring to to feel conflicted about this shit is a phobe or sorts who hates men in skirts that go spinny.
The day men and some women thought that locking violent males in prison cells with women was progressive was the day women were thrown in the village pond to see if they float whilst tied to a chair.
One question that i have, is transgenderism a religion? And will that fall under the protection of the hate speech laws?
Just when I think it couldn't get worse, this government promises to fast track hate speech legislation.
Many left wing and progressive people will support this because they have cultivated a habit of censure and shaming when challenged by disagreement. Add in a bit of sanctified victimhood, and the expectation of reasoned discussion is no longer necessary.
Who needs it when we all know what is hateful (and unkind)?
Shame, shame on those who might suggest opposing such legislation. Do they have no empathy for those who have a perception of fear?
"A hate crime is an offence perceived by the victim, or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice towards a person’s race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability or age.
A hate incident is an act perceived to be motivated by hate for these characteristics, but doesn’t meet the threshold of being considered a crime.
Hate crimes and hate incidents can encompass a broad range of acts, including threatening behaviour, harassment and verbal abuse, online abuse, criminal damage, assault and sexual violence.
Despite our high female murder rate, and non-existent transgender body count (long may it continue) – which protected characteristic from the Human Rights Act (1993) is missing (alongside marital status)? – and which is an inclusion of a characteristic that is not in the same Act?
Three guesses. (Though if you need more than one, don't bother.)
Given this current policy, how do you see this hate legislation shaping up, Sabine?
Shaming us for having lunches is just the beginning. It all starts somewhere and it ends with us not having the right to define us, meet among ourselves and simply be.
the things that we are are to validate others, serve them, seen but never heard.
Which leaves this question -last raised sometime during the 1400 – are we actually human?
of course words can't have meaning …… that would be counteractive to the movement. Words mean what ever those in power mean at the time they state them. Humpty Dumpty is their best friend and inspiration.
A reaction to finding out your sexual partner is not the sex you thought they were, leads to questions about:
sex by deception;
sexual consent;
and the right to have respected your sexual orientation.
Are you arguing that there is no such thing as informed consent to having sex with a transgender person, if this is not known in advance?
Or are you arguing that someone is having their sexual orientation compromised when they sleep someone who is transgender without knowing this in advance?
Sex by deception – lies about background (marital/relationship status, fake dating site profiles) …
"Or are you arguing that someone is having their sexual orientation compromised when they sleep someone who is transgender without knowing this in advance?"
At the very least – if that sexual orientation is known beforehand – there is a degree of disrespect, don't you think? For lesbians and gays the notion that their sexual orientation was due to the fact they just hadn't met the right "man" or "woman" was a battle seemingly won decades ago. How have we returned to this battleground?
(IIRC, sex by deception includes non-disclosure of positive STD status as well.)
There is only one case of successful prosecution of sexual assault in this scenario that I am aware of (in the UK):
The charge was grievous bodily harm with reckless disregard:
"Mikio Filitonga was found guilty by jury in March of a charge of grievous bodily harm with reckless disregard and in the Auckland District Court was sentenced to two years and 10 months in jail yesterday."
I suspect the obligation for disclosure falls under public health regulations:
"Filitonga tested positive for the virus on 27 February 2013.
On 26 July that year he was told of his legal obligations as an HIV positive man by a nurse."
In practice only informed consent as to public health (after instruction of a requirement to inform others of an infection) applies to date.
… the UK case cited is truly outlier (given the person was willing to not see – be blindfolded – and wanted penetrative sex with a male partner), as conviction required belief that the victim did not recognise her best female friend (a lesbian) as the “male” she was dating.
One wonders if long term relationships (between a transgender person and another) could later be posed as having been without informed consent, once they end. Bitter break-ups …
"In practice only informed consent as to public health (after instruction of a requirement to inform others of an infection) applies to date."
That distinction is made in the paper below, which has some other interesting considered scenarios, including some similar to after breakup dissatisfaction.
The UK case is interesting, and is it a scenario that is more likely to occur with young people who are likely to be more compliant and uncertain in sexual relationships, or is it something else – or nothing else, just a one-off?
It appears that the woman convicted was unable to acknowledge her same-sex orientation, so created a persona (NOT gender identity) in order to separate that orientation as a method of dealing with it.
That can be understood.
And the successful mechanics of subterfuge seems like something that may be interpreted as willful blindness.
While that cannot be discounted, it must also be considered that the young woman who was convicted also became intimate friends with the woman who was misled, and would likely have influenced her to accept the conditions of contact and intimacy laid down by her male persona.
So, it was a lengthy, and sustained level of deception which may not be duplicated again.
However, the impact on the woman – who is heterosexual, upon discovering that her sexual partner was a female – was reported as significant. Her response indicates her level of distress.
They make a point about the distinction between informed consent in medicine, as opposed to informed consent in personal intimate relationships (P 14):
2. ‘Informed’ consent to sexual activity
‘Informed consent’ is a concept commonly associated with medical law.
50 Professor Skegg explains, generally: “while competent lawyers have long realised that not all apparent consents are effective in law, the use of the expression ‘informed consent’ does serve to remind all concerned that an uninformed consent may not suffice for a particular legal…purpose.”
51 The Medical Council of New Zealand has described ‘informed consent’ as follows:
52 Informed consent is an interactive process between a doctor and patient where the patient gains an understanding of his or her condition and receives an explanation of the options available including an assessment of the expected risks, side effects, benefits and costs of each option and thus is able to make an informed choice and give their informed consent.
The difficulties in requiring that consent to sexual activity be ‘informed’ in this manner are readily apparent. Sexual relations are not engaged in on a detached doctor-patient type basis with duties of care and disclosure owed by one party to the other. The criminal law would be unworkable in practice if it required human passion and physical intimacy to be preceded by total disclosure or medical-level explanation by each party to the other of the risks, side effects, benefits and costs of that sexual activity.
Nevertheless, a number of cases have said that consent to sexual activity must be “full, voluntary, free and informed”.
53 Whether ‘informed’ consent goes beyond the need for a basic “understanding of the situation” is unclear,54 as the relevant cases show.
"LGB adults are more than twice as likely to experience intimate partner violence (IPV) and/or sexual violence (68% of bisexual adults and 57% of lesbian or gay adults have experienced IPV and/or sexual violence) compared to the NZ average (29%) based on the NZCVS."
I'd expect this will get more specific now that the categories are easier to self-identify.
"I'd expect this will get more specific now that the categories are easier to self-identify."
Why would that be more specific?
Also, wouldn't there also be potential for loss of accuracy regarding violence statistics in regards to sex and sexual orientation if people can self-identify in and out of statistical groups?
Let's wait and see but my suspicion is less than minor.
Coming up in March next year is the census, and it will be the first to ask everyone about their gender, sexual identity, and whether they have any variations of sex, getting straight to questions on ones':
gender
sexual identity (question only asked of people aged 15 years or older)
variations of sex characteristics (question only asked of people aged 15 years or older).
They can't help but to a better job than last time.
"They can't help but to a better job than last time."
A better job in what respect?
Giving someone an opportunity to declare an identity?
And/or gathering accurate and useful data in terms of identifying effective means to reduce violence?
ie. The gender question is now ambiguous.
Does it refer to sex or gender identity? Even if intended for one or the other, will it be answered consistently? If that cannot be assumed, accuracy is already compromised.
"variations of sex characteristics "
Also self-subjective, so not particularly useful in quantitive analysis.
I do agree that good quality data is necessary, however, I am not reassured it will be achieved.
Sorry, just realised that we've moved onto the census, rather than the surveys initially discussed, in which case the reference to violence is limited.
The rest in regards to accuracy in terms of analysis, and effective use remains.
Do they have a definition of these "variation of sex characteristics" or are they lumping people with Differences or Variations of Sex Development – which are medical conditions (used to be called "Intersex") in with sexuality and/or gender identity? Unfortunately, these 40 or so known syndromes have been weaponised by gender idealogues in an attempt to prove that sex is some sort of spectrum. It provides no such evidence in that those that are fertile – and many are not- produce either sperm or eggs so do not create additional sexes and certainly do not change sex. It is just more idealogical obfuscation which seems to have been swallowed wholesale by lawmakers.
Personally I keep thinking that the recent proliferation of endocrine disruptors from all plastics, pesticides and soy based food sources may well have something to do with all of this.
Endocrine disruption is an interesting area. Since reading Rachel Carson's Silent Spring, I think that determining if there is an environmental factor is always a question that should be answered.
I do think that around this topic of gender identity other factors come into play, especially taking into account the ever expanding notion of what falls under this umbrella. (eg. Drag Queens ) and the Q+ coterie.
Starting point will be the old-school transsexuals, so distress due to dysphoria will still be a part. But it is a small part now, and nowhere near the whole. (NB. Current gender ideology considers that expecting distress and even a dysphoria/gender incongruence diagnosis is transphobic).
After looking at many sources, including from those who identify as transgender, I think there are a multitude of different routes to self-identification.
Identifying the most common, and the demographic of who travels each path is important.
Despite the collective moniker, the starting points, journeys and destinations are often markedly different.
Yes – I was not suggesting that widespread endocrine disruption was the sole driving factor here – but I get the sense it has been rather overshadowed by the far more visible and noisier cultural debate.
And as an engineer my mind naturally gravitates toward possible root causes.
Among the many disastrous mistakes of the medical community it is the often overlooked DES debacle:
Diethylstilboestrol (DES) was a medication commonly prescribed to prevent miscarriage, between 1946 and 1971 in Australia. If your mother took DES while she was pregnant with you, then you are a DES daughter or DES son. We now know that DES exposure in the womb can cause a range of reproductive changes and fertility problems later in life.
Oestrogen is one of the female sex hormones that regulates the menstrual cycle. DES was a synthetic oestrogen medication, sold under many different brand names.
Doctors and obstetricians commonly prescribed DES to women who had fertility problems or who were at risk of miscarriage, usually as a pill. Sometimes, doctors gave the medication along with vitamin supplements and some women may not have realised they were taking any medications.
Anyone who was exposed to DES needs special healthcare, even if they are not having any obvious health problems.
While DES turned out to be a remarkably powerful disruptor, many of the chemicals listed in my reference in my first comment are rather similar especially Bisphenol A (BPA) – in its estrogen like behaviour:
In the early 1930s, the British biochemist Edward Charles Dodds tested BPA as an artificial estrogen, but found it to be 37,000 times less effective than estradiol. Dodds eventually developed a structurally similar compound,(DES), which was used as a synthetic estrogen drug in women and animals until it was banned due to its risk of causing cancer; the ban on use of DES in humans came in 1971 and in animals, in 1979. BPA was never used as a drug. BPA's ability to mimic the effects of natural estrogen derives from the similarity of phenol groups on both BPA and estradiol, which enable this synthetic molecule to trigger estrogenic pathways in the body. Typically phenol-containing molecules similar to BPA are known to exert weak estrogenic activities, thus it is also considered an endocrine disrupter (ED) and estrogenic chemical.
Xenoestrogens is another category the chemical BPA fits under because of its capability to interrupt the network that regulates the signals which control the reproductive development in humans and animals.
BPA is almost ubiquitous in our environment and while it is mostly chemically bound to other components, small amounts of it inevitably hydrolyse and become biologically available.
All this is subject to some degree of controversy among the specialist community – but frankly I would be very keen to see this issue get more political visibility. There are much wider implications around human fertility than just the trans debate we are having here.
The fertility issue is huge – and one I occasionally spend time on. I think the factors you have listed are unfortunately only two entries in a long list. The DES, I'd come across before. Of interest is the sentence that follows advice on medical vigilance:
There is no evidence that the third generation is affected by DES exposure.
I'd add: as yet.
BPA is a concern, which has led to old school personal preferences for food a drink storage, although it can't fully be avoided.
Small amounts are enough to have significant impacts on the endocrine system.
Recently, are acknowledging long-term health impacts from the contraceptive pill.
The interference of the endocrine system that is labelled affirming healthcare is not informed by robust clinical evidence. That fact should concern everyone regardless of perspective.
transwoman + male = hetero = opposite gender attraction
male – female – hetero= opposite gender attraction
transman + male = gay = same gender attraction
transman + transman = gay -= same gender attraction
male + male = gay = same gender attraction
Glossary:
Transwomen – male presenting as a female
Transman – female presenting as male
male – adult human male – standard edition
female – adult human female – standard edition
Non binary – everyone who can't be bothered really playing the game but wants some of that transcred cause being male/female is so boring and cis. 🙂
You can now fill forms out in which you can be "other".
And thus, the male that got locked into a female prisons for a short stay of 9 years and a few month for going into into a restaurant on a stabbing spree stabbing two and slashing the face of of his ex is a women crime and a women on women crime and everyone will have to pretend to have been assaulted by a 'woman'. She/her and all that stubble and jazz.
I mean if you want to devalue accurate record keeping about the countries population growth, future population growths, about crime, and such that is the way to go.
We might as well be counting sheep and declaring them cows.
I knew about the higher rates of intimate partner violence amongst lesbian couples.
That was one of the surprising findings to come out of the fabulous Dunedin Multidiscliplinary Study. I have searched that study to see what if anything they have found out about transgender people and to date have found nothing. Suspect that is to do with the cohorts age group (pre gender ideology and queer theory taking hold) and also because the cohort is around 1000, just not enough numbers
And don't forget Toko Shane Winter (who demands to be called Ashley) who was convicted for the sadistic torture and murder of a young woman in 2019. The NZ media showered him with female pronouns and called him a woman several times right throughout his trial, conviction and sentencing for this crime. They had become a bit more balanced when it came to reporting his unsuccessful appeal.
The govt spening money on gender affirming care is highly problematic and may lead to some of the situations overseas, for example the gender clinic at the Tavistock Clinic in London. After senior paedeatrian Dr Hillary Cass was half way through her review she ordered the clinic be closed due to safety concerns. A highly unsual move for an NHS trust.
The concerns were around the use of puberty blockers, automatic affirmation of gender identity and the lack of a comprehensive assessment for youngster who most often had significant co-morbidities with their gender dysphoria. The Tavistock is also facing a significant class action taken by families and patients who have been damaged by this approach.
But if you want to sing the praises of this govt for going down this dubious pathway, then don't let me stop you.
Remember that prior to 1990s the rates of transgender people was something like one in thirty thousand. Teen girls where almost unheard of in the early days of the Tavistock clinic. Then around the time of the invention of the smart phone there was an exponential growith in teen girls presenting to gender clinics. Many of them had been exposed to trans information in chat rooms. Social contagian if very common in adolescent girls. We have seen it with girls with anoerexia, bulimia, self harm and now gender dysphoria. The govt in endorsing gender affirming care , is endorsing the wrong approach for these troubled youngsters
"I don't comment much on this site anymore; given the suffocating transphobia that I find it healthier to avoid subjecting myself to."
As those prone to racism, misogyny and homophobia carve out niches on social media to support their ideas, an easy path is not to engage with that toxicity. Good on you Temp ORary for having the courage to state that you feel you have encountered "suffocating transphobia" here. Hope it's OK to post links in response. Kia kaha.
Dynamics of online hate and misinformation [11 Nov 2021]
Our results show that, coherently with Godwin’s law, online debates tend to degenerate towards increasingly toxic exchanges of views.
LEVEL 1, disagreement – Speech involving disagreement with a particular idea or statement. It seeks to challenge the claims, ideas, and beliefs of the addressee in an offensive and intolerant manner.
LEVEL 2, negative actions and reactions– Direct insult or verbal attack against the one to whom the hate speech and intolerance refer to
LEVEL 3, negative characterization – Speech involving negative non-violent actions related to the group to which it is addressed, followed by stereotyping, belittling, ridicule or public stigmatization.
LEVEL 4,demonizing and dehumanizing – Speech that includes qualifications for the other as the embodiment of a certain evil, inhumanity, and assigning a subhuman status to entire groups in society.
LEVEL 5, incitement to violence – Speech that calls for physical harm and specifies ways of violent behavior.
LEVEL 6, death – Speech that makes explicit calls for killing or physical elimination.
Gay hate speech case in court as review of law announced [31 Oct 2022]
“My view on homo marriage is that the Bible never mentions it so I’m not against them getting married … As long as a bullet goes through their head the moment they kiss,” the pastor said.
Hate speech in Aotearoa New Zealand: Reflecting and resisting
[18 June 2022]
In the month since our paper was released, dangerous speech increased significantly. Violent, vulgar and vicious discourse against public figures, such as the Prime Minister, MPs who are women, academics, journalists, and other senior public officials continues to grow, with increasingly graphic and violent content. Threats of death, rape, and intense violence are now commonplace – and daily – within the domestic online ecologies studied by The Disinformation Project. Such discourses are intertwined with misogyny, queerphobia, racism, xenophobia, anti-Semitism, and ableism. These discourses focus on, seek to amplify, and entrench differences, rather than notions of cohesion and shared identity. Instead of focussing on what binds us together, mis- and disinformation producers are increasingly highlighting difference, and the antagonistic negotiation of it.
Is this what you are referring to? – the successful prosecution of Richard Jacobs:
"New Zealand has laws against hate speech but they only apply to discrimination on the basis of race, ethnicity or national origin. The letter of the law is so broad that courts have adopted a much narrower interpretation since it was passed in 1993, meaning only a single successful prosecution for hate speech has occurred in the past 29 years. That case was last year, when Tauranga man Richard Jacobs posted a YouTube video calling for genocide and a race war against Māori."
If it is, I'm going to make an assumption (correct me if I am wrong) that you do not disagree with either the prosecution or the success.
So, is it that you wish that more prosecutions take place?
1. Because many others are calling for genocide on the basis of a protected characteristic?
2. Because the level of genocide is too high a bar for hate speech, and you want that determinator to be something else? What do you propose?
Your links to Canada etc are unexceptional, particularly given that Canada is justifying a lot of atrocities in the name of progression these days. A trial currently is taking place for a nurse in regards to her speech:
Is this Canadian distinction the one you seek to emulate here in NZ?
As for the domestic The Disinformation Project – is it truly possible that there are those on the left that do not recognise The Ministry of Truth when it lands on our shores?
Re the current court case, it will be informative to have written and recorded the police's decision not to prosecute and why, and the judgement:
"Timmins was backing the case of Auckland man Russell Hoban against the attorney-general about a West Auckland pastor’s sermon, posted on Facebook in April 2017, that called for gay people to be shot. Timmins described the pastor as “self-titled” and said the sermon was recorded in the man’s lounge.
“My view on homo marriage is that the Bible never mentions it so I’m not against them getting married … As long as a bullet goes through their head the moment they kiss,” the pastor said.
Given the obvious incitement to violence against those practicing homosexuality (as indicated by a marriage), the police failure to prosecute would seem inexplicable. Might be a next time we will warning case …
Generally most people would oppose threats of violence to individuals or groups of individuals (race, ethnicity, origin and extend that to sex, gender, sexuality, religion).
The question would be around incitement to violence (such violence being a hate crime) and then onto hate itself.
Given that they were successful in prosecuting Richard Jacobs, above, I think it's really important to show how they made that decision.
There is not enough details in the article, that perhaps the published decision will provide.
I suspect the Jacobs case was easily identified as a call for genocide: "calling for genocide and a race war against Māori." whereas the Timmins case was related not to a call for genocide because of homosexuality, but the self-declared pastor's response to the acceptance of gay marriage. A small difference, but it should be clarified if this is the interpretation.
Well i guess these colonial and societal construct are just getting their deserved come uppance being locked up with a male offender who stabbed three people – one of them the ex of the offender who stabbed the colonial and societal construct in the lungs and slashed the face.
Perhaps a "reflective circle" is required – such as the one a young high-school student had to attend when she challenged the presence of a boy in the girls changing room:
"It also claims that the school turned a blind eye to ‘death threats’ made against Blake by the transgender student, who said after the locker room incident ‘I’m going to f***ing kill Blake Allen’.
They are said to have been selective in their discipline, despite suspending Blake for two days for 'misgendering' the student, then ordering her to take part in a 'reflective circle' where she returned.
That saw equity coordinator Jamie Connor and other students attempt to brainwash Blake into seeing the error of her ways, it is alleged. "
Christ! The reflective circle. I happen to be re-reading 1984 at the moment.
Yes let this young woman experience the reflective circle. We must eradicate wrong think!
In my life time it has taken so much work (by other women) to tell women and girls they can trust their instincts and if they speak up they will be heard
According to the Herald today, Winston Peters for the first time ever in his political career, is ruling out working with two parties prior to the election – bold move. (Premium content so have not attached)
Judging by some of the comments on this blog, this could be a clever tactic.
It doesn’t matter if it is ‘premium content’ or not, you should still provide a link for verification for and by others, preferably with a note/warning about it being behind a paywall or subscription-only.
Do you know Alan, is Winston saying he won't go with Labour or the Greens?
Wonder if it was hiding He puapua from him before the last election or Trev tresspassin g him that did it. But actually maybe I am wrong, perhaps he is happy to go with L and G and it is some other party he's ruling out. Opps just seen from the headline its Labour plus???
To double-check whether there was any wriggle room in his position on Labour, he is asked if he is ruling out working with a Jacinda Ardern-led Government.
“Most definitely,” he says and he reflects on his previous two stints in government, first with National and with the fifth Labour Government, which he described as trusted relationships.
“When I shook hands with Jim Bolger and Helen Clark, ask them whether I could be trusted. When I shake someone’s hand, and they deliberately mislead me and my caucus, who are a critical part of a coalition, they don’t get a second chance to do that again.
“I regret that. It’s sad that it has happened but those are the facts and they cannot deny it.
(based on not having read anything paywalled at the Herald)
Not actually true – he has until now ruled out being in a coalition with either ACT and Greens.
Thus campaigning as the centrist partner of either National or Labour (reducing ACT and Greens as support partner of one coalition or the other).
He intends to campaign like he did in 1996, against the government. But in this case rules out forming a coalition afterwards.
The option he proffers is National on the right (taking votes off ACT) and NZ First (taking votes Labour won off National in 2020) in the centre.
In dividing against Labour and MP he is making fear of "He Puapua" (indigenous peoples rights and Treaty partnership concepts) front and centre of a "majoritarian democracy" alliance between National and NZF (nostalgia for the simplicity of the pavlova paradise assimilationist age baby boomers were raised up in – as per the Brexit vote in the UK). Winston is doing a Boris.
In not excluding ACT or Greens, Peters leaves open a competition between them to be the support partner to a National-NZF coalition if that is required.
His technical difficulty – he will struggle to gain as many votes in the centre as he might want/need if he does not rule out a coalition including ACT. And ACT could rule out supporting a National-NZF coalition if they were not included.
Winston Peters for the first time ever in his political career
His language directed at Bolger and National before 1996 was even stronger than his criticism of Ardern. It meant nothing.
But let's face it, we've had this dance many times before, and in the end it comes down to the same old question: do we learn from experience or not? Note the language used: "rule out" … "work with" … To quote Game Of Thrones … "words are wind".
2023 Winston: "I did not say that, you in the media always get it wrong", etc, etc.
When he writes a legally-binding document with affidavit that says "I refuse to be Deputy PM or Foreign Minister or take any role in government offered by Labour even if they offer it and National don't … also, here is my bond of a million dollars which I will forfeit if I break this promise" – then it'll mean something.
Until then, Winston gonna Winston. Fools gonna believe.
I prefer Seymour’s twerking to Winston’s Tango For One, by, for, and with Winston. Winston goes for the sentimental value of nostalgia and glory days of the past that never really were. Trotter will love it.
"We are in this for our policies – not the perks of office. …
Now the voters know New Zealand First will not be in government – by our own choice – they also deserve to know that we intend to serve New Zealanders, as we always have, by keeping the next government honest.
… It involves for my colleagues a real sacrifice, but we willingly make it. For my part, I never took as deputy Prime Minister ministerial cars or a house, so we genuinely don’t care about the baubles of office."
A big shoutout to the Capital Kiwi Project for reaching their conservation milestone of releasing 250 Kiwi onto 23,000 hectares of mostly private land in the Wellington region.
In particular to the landowners of the big Terawhiti block, Kinnoull, Meridian, Mill Creek Farms, Papanui Boomrock, Pikarere, many of which have been in families for generations.
This is a private protected area larger than Abel Tasman National Park. This kind of project takes years and years to do, so also well done to all the Trustees in particular previous Mayor Kerry Prendergast.
Much of the red colour outside main cities is old people on fixed incomes selling the house in the city, banking the cash, moving somewhere cheap, and just living off the basics to eke it out.
First extreme cold event of the season starts in US with Buffalo hit by snow lake effect and 4 foot falls,due to ridging event in Alaska.
NE US will be susceptible to energy outages (as a number of other loc) during prolonged weather events.NE very marginal due to reliance on fuel oil/LNG and Diesel with high cost burdens.
Given most of the human beings receiving puberty blockers are females and most of the teens receiving gender related surgery are female (breast removal), it is not surprising people are relating this to girls being tomboys, puberty transformation struggles and teenage female body image issues rather than to an actual greater gender issue for females than for those born male at those ages.
This would explain the move of late Sweden and onto UK (and now in the USA) to less physiological and more psychological intervention. The do no harm approach then follows the approach of counsellors as to teens and sexuality, not to rush to identify but offer affirmative support to their personal development and understanding over time.
There are sex-based differences in causes, transition methods and impacts that emphasise the need to identify and address these cohorts as having distinct and unique support and needs.
Treating all who are transgender the same, is not patient-centred care.
Yesterday I received come lovely feedback following my Star Wars themed newsletter. A few people mentioned they’d enjoyed reading the personal part at the beginning.I often begin newsletters with some memories, or general thoughts, before commencing the main topic. This hopefully sets the mood and provides some context in which ...
April 30 was going to be the day we’d be calling Mum from London to wish her a happy birthday. Then it became the day we would be going to St. Paul's at Evensong to remember her. The aim of the cathedral builders was to find a way to make their ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Can’t remember the last book by a Kiwi author you read? Think the NZ government should spend less on the arts in favor of helping the homeless? If so, as far as Newsroom is concerned, you probably deserve to be called a cultural ignoramus ...
Eric Crampton writes – Grudges are bad. Better to move on. But it can be fun to keep a couple of really trivial ones, so you’re not tempted to have other ones. For example, because of the rootkit fiasco of 2005, no Sony products in our household. ...
A new report warns an estimated third of the adult population have unmet need for health care.Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāHere’s the six key things I learned about Aotaroa’s political economy this week around housing, climate and poverty:Politics - Three opinion polls confirmed support for PM Christopher Luxon ...
Today is May the fourth. Which was just a regular day when my mother took me to see the newly released Star Wars at the Odeon in Rotorua. The queue was right around the corner. Some years later this day became known as Star Wars Day, the date being a ...
Buzz from the Beehive Much more media attention is being paid to something Winston Peters said about former Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr than to a speech he delivered to the New Zealand China Council. One word is missing from the speech: AUKUS. But AUKUS loomed large in his considerations ...
Is the economy in another long stagnation? If so, why?This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be ...
The annual list of who's been bribing our politicians is out, and journalists will no doubt be poring over it to find the juiciest and dirtiest bribes. The government's fast-track invite list is likely to be a particular focus, and we already know of one company on the list which ...
In the weeks after the October 7 Hamas attacks on Southern Israel I wrote about the possible 2nd, 3rd and even 4th order effects of the conflict. These included new fronts being opened in the West Bank (with Hamas), Golan … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – It is one of the oldest truisms that there is never a good time for MPs to get a pay rise. This week’s announcement of pay raises of around 2.8% backdated to last October could hardly have come at a worse time, with the ...
David Farrar writes – Newshub reports: Newshub can reveal a fresh allegation of intimidation against Green MP Julie-Anne Genter. Genter is subject to a disciplinary process for aggressively waving a book in the face of National Minister Matt Doocey in the House – but it’s not the first time ...
The Treasury has published a paper today on the global productivity slowdown and how it is playing out in New Zealand: The productivity slowdown: implications for the Treasury’s forecasts and projections. The Treasury Paper examines recent trends in productivity and the potential drivers of the slowdown. Productivity for the whole economy ...
Winston Peters’ comments about former Australian foreign minister look set to be an ongoing headache for both him and Luxon. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for subscribers features co-hosts and , along with regular guests on Gaza and ...
These puppet strings don't pull themselvesYou're thinking thoughts from someone elseHow much time do you think you have?Are you prepared for what comes next?The debating chamber can be a trying place for an opposition MP. What with the person in charge, the speaker, typically being an MP from the governing ...
The land around Lyme Regis, where Meryl Streep once stood, in a hood, on the Cobb, is falling into the sea.MerylThe land around Lyme Regis, around the Cobb that made it rich, has always been falling slowly but surely into the sea. Read more ...
Buzz from the Beehive Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters was bound to win headlines when he set out his thinking about AUKUS in his speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. The headlines became bigger when – during an interview on RNZ’s Morning Report today – he criticised ...
The Post reports on how the government is refusing to release its advice on its corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law, instead using the "soon to be publicly available" refusal ground to hide it until after select committee submissions on the bill have closed. Fast-track Minister Chris Bishop's excuse? “It's not ...
As pressure on it grows, the livestock industry’s approach to the transition to Net Zero is increasingly being compared to that of fossil fuel interests. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above ...
The New Zealand Herald reports – Stats NZ has offered a voluntary redundancy scheme to all of its workers as a way to give staff some control over their “future” amidst widespread job losses in the public sector. In an update to staff this morning, seen by the Herald, Statistics New Zealand ...
On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
Alwyn Poole writes – “An SEP,’ he said, ‘is something that we can’t see, or don’t see, or our brain doesn’t let us see, because we think that it’s somebody else’s problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it’s like a ...
Our trust in our political institutions is fast eroding, according to a Maxim Institute discussion paper, Shaky Foundations: Why our democracy needs trust. The paper – released today – raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand’s political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency ...
This article was prepared for publication yesterday. More ministerial announcements have been posted on the government’s official website since it was written. We will report on these later today …. Buzz from the BeehiveThere we were, thinking the environment is in trouble, when along came Jones. Shane Jones. ...
New Zealand now has the fourth most depressed construction sector in the world behind China, Qatar and Hong Kong. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 8:46am on Thursday, May 2:The Lead: ...
Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
Winston Peters’ much anticipated foreign policy speech last night was a work of two halves. Much of it was a standard “boilerplate” Foreign Ministry overview of the state of the world. There was some hardening up of rhetoric with talk of “benign” becoming “malign” and old truths giving way to ...
Graham Adams assesses the fallout of the Cass Review — The press release last Thursday from the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls didn’t make the mainstream news in New Zealand but it really should have. The startling title of Reem Alsalem’s statement — “Implementation of ‘Cass ...
This open-for-business, under-new-management cliché-pockmarked government of Christopher Luxon is not the thing of beauty he imagines it to be. It is not the powerful expression of the will of the people that he asserts it to be. It is not a soaring eagle, it is a malodorous vulture. This newest poll should make ...
The latest labour market statistics, showing a rise in unemployment. There are now 134,000 unemployed - 14,000 more than when the National government took office. Which is I guess what happens when the Reserve Bank causes a recession in an effort to Keep Wages Low. The previous government saw a ...
Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”.As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
Holding On To The Present:The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
Stuck In The Middle With You:As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
Buzz from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example. This shows National down ...
It Takes A Train To Cry:Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
Chris Trotter writes – New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy.Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
Buzz from the Beehive Pharmac has been given a financial transfusion and a new chair to oversee its spending in the pharmaceutical business. Associate Health Minister David Seymour described the funding for Pharmac as “its largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff”. ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its ...
TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:10am on Monday, April 29:Scoop: The children's ward at Rotorua Hospital will be missing a third of its beds as winter hits because Te Whatu Ora halted an upgrade partway through to ...
span class=”dropcap”>As hideous as David Seymour can be, it is worth keeping in mind occasionally that there are even worse political figures (and regimes) out there. Iran for instance, is about to execute the country’s leading hip hop musician Toomaj Salehi, for writing and performing raps that “corrupt” the nation’s ...
Yesterday marked 10 years since the first electric train carried passengers in Auckland so it’s a good time to look back at it and the impact it has had. A brief history The first proposals for rail electrification in Auckland came in the 1920’s alongside the plans for earlier ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
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https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/uk/300743302/economy-in-free-fall-britain-hikes-taxes-to-save-sinking-economy
Huh ,I've woken up in a parallel universe it would seem. Same but very different.
Thing about twitter is no one knows what’s going to happen,
https://twitter.com/mosquitocapital/status/1593541177965678592
https://twitter.com/zoeschiffer/status/1593649356661436417
Twitter in the sh*tter
Facebook, Amazon and Twitter are all in trouble anyway. (Not that I ever gave a shit about them – most social media is a mental illness factory.)
Either Musk does nothing and Twitter dies slowly but surely, or he attempts radical surgery. If Twitter dies anyway he will have done spent a lot of his money doing us all a public service (and a whole lot of skilled technical people will be released onto the US economy to do something else hopefully more useful) – or if something 2.0 arises from the chaos everyone will be calling him a genius yet again.
There are no downsides as far as I can see.
Save it now I recon. Quick re-write from scratch by some brash newish Twitter coder and its all sorted, back to full steam on Twitter. Not sure if Musk has experience with this approach, but how hard could it be anyway.
The real cost of money has appreciated to expose overvalued assets,zombie companies (and assets) and overpriced workers in the tech and service economies.
There will also be exposure to over reliance of tech,and the replacement of tax revenues will be difficult in say California,or worse in Ireland (where half the corporate tax comes from 10 companies)
https://twitter.com/lisaabramowicz1/status/1593221629105958913?cxt=HHwWgsCjtayooZwsAAAA
I recon the people who answer yes to that question, "can actually write software" have an exaggerated sense of their own abilities. Musk's way of saying, maximum 6 months experience required to be a Senior Twitter Coder, I guess.
https://twitter.com/peterclowes/status/1593458225533313025
Bookmarking
https://twitter.com/yoyoel/status/1593686891965992961
from behind paywall,
https://archive.ph/6FqcU
The EU privacy regulators are already in lengthy discussions with Twitters security heads on many of these.
Musk is without guardrails and worth about half what he had 6 months ago, and still going.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/130516576/no-consequences-they-believe-they-can-get-away-with-whatever-they-want
Andrew Gunn on page B5 in the Christchurch Press satirises Luxon, boot camps and a 'hard core of young, anti-social, born-to-rule chinless wonders" who are at risk of being 'parachuted into a safe seat for life.'
"They see no consequences whatsoever and believe they can get away with whatever they want".
Brilliant satire……. if only.
I always get a bit sad that they have to put the label satire on these columns. We have become such literalists. It pains me to think that the appreciation of all these fabulous uses of language/figures of speech are incapable of being read and recognised for what they are.
There's a wee side swipe in the Gunn piece at the cares to which you allude. He even satirises the legal need for alleging allegations.
' "… to your sharers of inappropriate sexual images to your leakers of sensitive information for political purposes. All alleged, of course." (Thanks for that- Editorial legal team)'
It's like a lost skill
https://twitter.com/AgenderVoid/status/1593290868114731008
Reality can be bogus sometimes.
Very good – thanks.
Watching this debate,
https://youtu.be/_4-ynhbZqgs
first speaker (position = trans rights are not up for debate and it was wrong to invite Kathleen Stock to be part of the debate) just made the proposition that because we have the right to say something doesn't mean we should say it. Not sure they intended this, but it came across as: you have the right to say something, but it's wrong to say it.
Don't think he's made an argument to support that.
summarises the point of contention as definition of what is a man/woman, but refuses to debate this because that's debating trans people.
Instead they're going to look at Stock's actions eg tweets and support.
Starting with the LGB Alliance, they appear to make a number of negative assertions about LGBA (some of which are almost certainly not true and/or a misrepresentation of the LGBA position), and then asserts that Stock's involvement with the organisation is akin to having the same positions.
LGBA do 'truly reprehensible things', therefore support cannot be defensible. They don't provide evidence for the assertion of truly reprehensible. I don't know if this is normal in formal debate.
someone calls a point of order, that Kaldicott is not making a propositional case.
Kaldicott clarifies that he is supporting the motion (the right to offend), and is making the case for how this should be used and how Stock has not done this in an appropriate manner.
Stock's twitter and support for JK Rowling. Again, makes assertions but no real argument other than that he finds both women's positions abhorrent.
As a non-binary person, Kaldicott feels that living in the UK and looking at MSM it's impossible not to be miserable, it's impossible to listen to the voices on this topic and not be miserable, and so on. Stock and others disgust Kaldicott.
Ok, but why did they need 10 mins to the same basic things over and over?
Because it's a mantra and if it's repeated often enough it becomes truth.
It should never be "hate speech" to tell the truth. This violent man is not a woman and never will be. He should not be in a woman's prison either.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/130471744/restaurant-triple-stabber-jailed-for-nine-years-and-three-months?fbclid=IwAR2NPzcKmuSzLbfAOIACqqifKEQmHAgptlQEmU06BUfE0D1wdcdDwTlgudk
Kalicott came across as thoroughly arrogant. I am allowed to offend and say what I want about Kathleen Stock, but she doesn't have the right too.
Cherry picked distortions about LGB Alliance
Guy at 34 was excellent
Chair makes a statement that the speakers must address the proposition (this house believes in the right to offend), rather than focusing on other speakers.
second speaker, opposition to motion, Teodor Grama. Protest outside, agrees with protestors, it's wrong that the topic is being debated at the CU, but believes the debate is going to happen anyway so better to be involved.
His main argument is more interesting – that his side of the debate has the ability for nuance whereas the affirming side of 'right to offend' doesn't (the latter is a position that all offense is acceptable as free speech).
He uses Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses as an example of speech that many find offensive, but the offense is outweighed by the social good of the book.
His side wants to say some offense serves a social good, but there are other offenses that are unacceptable. He names homophobia, transphobia, racism and all 'other' forms of prejudice. He doesn't say who gets to decide. I will note that he didn't name misogyny (pertinent because prejudice against women is increasingly being made invisible as a social justice issue despite half the human population being female, and because lots of progressive men are complicit in this).
talking now about why the right to offend "is not a mere legal prohibition on state censorship". Why are we having this debate? Because various commentators have expressed offensive views in various forms. Names Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, and JK Rowling, as three examples (spot the difference 🙄).
They haven't complained about not being legally allowed to speak, they've complained about cancel culture and deplatforming (says the young white man privileged enough to attend Cambridge University). He calls this backlash and social sanction, and goes on to make the assertion that the affirmative side, in supporting the right to offend is also saying that society should accept all speech without intervention, and that it is "illegitimate to restrict the proliferation of such views through any social means we have available, protest or otherwise"
This is clearly a nonsense. While the libertarian side of the free speech debate might be closer to that, gender critical feminists are clearly not saying that at all. Which makes me think he doesn't know what the GC views are (hence him grouping JKR with JP and Shapiro). Maybe he has no class analysis either and can't recognise left/right wing political positions and how they change meaning of GC.
In other words, he is saying that the right to offend must give 'fair hearing' to racism, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, transphobia, homophobia (the omission of misogyny is glaring now). He's trying to put the opposition view into a box of his making, rather than understanding it in its own terms and then critiquing it.
This is particularly relevant because Kathleen Stock's starting position as a philosopher is that we should be able to argue our opponent's position in a way that is fair to them, before we criticise it.
It's a feature of the gender/sex wars that genderists generally can't or won't do that. This is true of the first two speakers (who are genderists).
He now talks about why the affirmative can't meaningfully make a case for their position. The necessity of giving all views a fair hearing without censure means that individuals cannot respond in the free market of idea based on their own views, desires, values etc. It's an infringement on autonomy for people to listen to what they want and respond.
We do place restrictions eg on politicians during elections, and this serves a good social purpose.
Now he argues that offensive views generate more harm than social good (seems unaware of the irony of his views being offensive and thus being harmful, lol). He uses a broad category here of marginalised, minority people, vulnerable groups, who are denied free expression because of fear of ridicule and attacks. That the offensive views (which he hasn't defined) dehumanise them and infringe on their dignity).
Sidebar here. Penny just dropped. I think he's talking about trans people being the worst oppressed people,
but he's also as a white man talking about how white men are now treated by society. I doubt this is conscious, but it does explain why so many blokes feel much more affinity with trans people than they do with women. It also explains the refusal to understand or take seriously left wing GCF views. It's the patriarchy in action, make women the baddies. He goes on to say that people who make others feel this way should be deplatformed. Feminists eh, the ones who insist that feminism is politics for females.
Speakers from the floor. First one is another white dude arguing against women's rights to single sex spaces 🙄 Using an argument that opposition to gender mixed toilets comes from the right.
Speaker abstaining, another white man saying the debate has been a waste of his time because the speakers have failed to engage with points of information on comments they have made that are controversial and worthy of discussion. Sniping comments have been made about the guest speaker (Stock) and the first speaker basically ran an attack on her. The topic is worthy of debate, there are historical and contemporary reasons why, and it should be treated with more respect. Man standing up and arguing for debate rather than rhetoric.
Speaker opposing the motion, young black man, hard to hear as he didn't have a mike, but seems to be saying that the power that a person has matters in terms of the impact of what they say. Talking about something at the university, one of the departments and professors talking about race intelligence? Offensive words are made to harm, the house should oppose the right to offend.
Just realised that the background noise is the protest outside (using sound to disrupt people speaking is a common tactic of the genderist side).
Kathleen Stock was clearly nervous and you could hear the loud groups of protesters outside desperate to disrupt proceedings. But kudos to her for standing up and speaking out on behalf of a basic democratic right — to say things that some find heretical or offensive. She has bigger cojones than most of us.
Prof. Arif Ahmed from Cambridge (from about 1:14:00) was very eloquent and made his points graciously about public discourse in a democracy — and how the "right not to be offended" is always used by the dominant group in society to shut down dissent e.g. the governments of China or Iran. His closing quotes:
haven't watched the second half yet but her speech was so good, such a relief to hear that intelligence on all levels.
And yes, very brave.
Kathleen Stock excellent and she looked rattled. Understandably so. Must have brought back the harrassment (masked men on campas calling to get rid of Stock).
Shes one brave women.
Kathleen Stock, philosopher, former professor, author, lesbian (wouldn't normally mention that but the whole lesbians should have sex with trans identified males is the context).
She starts by saying that she's not going to respond to the things that have been said about her, although she obviously disagrees. It's fine for people to say what they want to say. She's going to respond to the debate question: is there a right to offend?
Newshub: Jacinda was hugely complimented at APEC in Thailand yesterday…
"A prophet in her own country", at least for some.
Meanwhile Luxon is now being satirised at home for doughnut politics where you u-turn on a u-turn of a u-turn, his ridiculous re-invention of militaristic boot-camp intervention and National's inability to see the effects on poor candidate selections by the interventions of powerful ruling elites.
Labour party seems set to sacrifice principles for convenience once again. Which would be surprising, except it really isn't.
I don't comment much on this site anymore; given the suffocating transphobia that I find it healthier to avoid subjecting myself to. But did participate in discussion around the proposed Incitement to Discrimination law changes the other year. So it seemed appropriate to mention this development here, rather than my usual online discussion places. At least until I get some of the disgust I feel for those craven poll chasers out of my system. I was liking being a swing voter, now I have much fewer voting options (never ACT, certainly not Luxon Nats, and now with Labour stacking gutlessness upon gutlessness – I am left with few choices next year).
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/hate-speech-reforms-drastically-watered-down
Thanks for beginning this timely discussion.
"I don't comment much on this site anymore; given the suffocating transphobia that I find it healthier to avoid subjecting myself to."
Disagreeing with you, or speaking about the impacts of legislative and policy changes is not transphobia, but it is often labelled as such.
As for the bill, it is unnecessary and should be thrown out in its entirety.
The transphobia cultivated here is an ongoing shame. And another pissweak backdown from Labour to please who? The fearful old people who would vote for Winston or the Nats anyway.
While twitter is still working
https://twitter.com/Publicwrongs/status/1593711332376731649
So fortunate to have direct access to actual lawyers and academics on this
https://twitter.com/Publicwrongs/status/1593723637923602432
Clarifying themselves in real time, even
https://twitter.com/Publicwrongs/status/1593727227467689985
"The transphobia cultivated here is an ongoing shame. "
The repeatedly unevidenced accusation is shameful.
I know you think otherwise – so, on this we disagree.
I do not expect you to examine your own conscience but it is a narrow path to choose.
Please stop trolling. If you want to have a conversation on TS about transphobia, then have the conversation rather than making vague digs that can’t be responded to meaningfully.
Merely wanted to make sure a commenter who said "I don't comment much on this site anymore; given the suffocating transphobia that I find it healthier to avoid subjecting myself to" did not see the only response being a denial of their reality. Not expecting your small group to change their minds.
[that’s not the problem, it’s how you did it. I see from your response that you won’t stop trolling, so take a week off. When you come back you are welcome to talk about transphobia, and/or affirm other people’s realities, but you cannot troll here. If you want an explanation of the difference, then ask – weka]
mod note.
You do realise, all you have done is to confirm everything that Sacha said?
The first irony is that this is the very reason the Labour Party has failed to make much progress with legislation. All the nuance, such as tightening up on the definition of what speech is in breech counts for nought, because of a fear that woke/PC activists will make groundless complaints to police to de-platform others.
The second irony is that G-CF see themselves as victims of the same de-platforming
https://twitter.com/Womans_Place_UK/status/1592929163039899649
PS G-CF, coz nothing shows up on google for “GCF”.
Please explain. Because no, I don't know what you are meaning. Use your words. It might be obvious to you, it’s not to me (I was just modding as I do based on a pattern of behaviour of someone who should know better and I didn’t want to waste any more of my time on it. Something that is also consistent with most mods here).
Again, don't know which legislation you are referring to. But as with Three Waters, there are a range of reasons for opposition. People who try and box it into for/progressive and against/bigots do the country a massive disservice.
and again, what is your point? Women's Place UK did have an event dropped by Eventbrite, allegedly because of EB's hateful speech policy. We will see if that stands, because the legal precedents have been established in UK law already that gender critical views are protected under law.
So what was your point exactly?
Sigh .. the being required to repeat myself to explain …
You do realise, all you have done is to confirm everything that Sacha said? Which was
Onto
Sigh – it's obviously that under discussion from 6 on. The long proposed change to legislation on hate speech (as to what it covers and in what way.
As for what was the point of my observation about those who practice de-platforming while complaining about it themselves – I will refer to the post of roblogic below still on 6
You can imagine how I feel being expected to engage with someone @ing me on a Saturday over a moderation when they can’t even be bothered to explain themselves.
So not everything Sacha said, but this one specific thing. What have I confirmed? You still haven’t explained. I’ll guess. You think that Sacha shouldn’t have been banned because he’s needed here to make sure that Temp doesn’t feel something? Why should someone who is obviously trolling be given allowances when others aren’t?
Again, it’s not obvious. I wasn’t reading the thread for content, I was reading it to moderate. They’re two different things. Sometimes moderators use the comment flow in the back end and we don’t see the whole conversation in context, we just see someone with a pattern of behaviour trolling and we intervene.
Still no idea what you are on about. I know what Rob means. I don’t know what you mean. Nothing worthwhile bothering with as apparently you can’t be arsed explaining. Maybe I’ll guess again. You think the moderating trolls is a suppression of free speech and I shouldn’t have done it. Who the fuck knows though.
We are here for the robust debate. Stop expecting people to mind read, make your argument or go away, because I don’t want to be wasting my time.
I did not see the support for Temp Orary view (first post and latter in his response to others) as trolling (but supportive to a greater diversity of contributor and involvement on "gender ID" debates). And otherwise his posts on 6 were in relation to the hate speech law itself and added to the debate.
thanks, now I understand. Can you please say that up front next time?
I didn’t moderate Sacha for his political content. He was moderated for his pattern of behaviours trolling.
I’m fine with people offering support and solidarity to Temp (or anyone). What is not ok is the sly digs all the way through. Intentional digs imo. If Sacha wanted to talk about the issues, he should have talked about the issues. If he wanted to support Temp, he can do that without the digs. The digs are the trolling, not the desire to offer support. I think trans people here do deserve more support. However this is a political blog, and there are substantial politics involved, ones that Sacha is largely in denial about and refuses to engage with. That’s his choice, but he can’t have it both ways.
I also won’t countenance left wing men making derogatory trolling comments about feminists. That’s just bullshit on a site like this. Sacha is well aware of just how difficult it is for feminists to write and comment here, so I can only take his support for Temp and digs at feminists and him picking a very particular side. He can do this of course, but he can’t troll from that. He has a history of this now, and it’s time it stopped. He can either front up and engage in the debate or he can keep his digs to himself.
In repsonse to Weka re SUFW not really left wing. They did a survery of themselves and most of them were Green/Labs.
Early on they were accused on not caring about other feminists causes. So they listed annonymously all the causes they had been involved with e.g Sos abortion services in the 1970s, The SB tour, rape crisis. The list is impressive. I am trying to post the link to the page but having some difficulty.
Nope no go, but visit SUFW and click on who we are for interest.
fair point. I was thinking of the people who are the public face of the group.
Re SUFW leadership….Ani O'b is no longer in that role.
New woman is a very strong lesbian leftie
In fact I would estimate at least 50% are lesbians.
Still can't post that link unfortunately
@Anker and @weka
Link:
https://www.speakupforwomen.nz/who-we-are
Thanks Molly for that link. (ie. SUFW who we are link)
It is an impressive list of women supporting women and activism for women's and other causes.
Millsy where are you? I seem to think you think SUFW are right wing christian bigots. Here's the reality
SPC "G-CF see themselves as victims of the same deplatforming"
But actually gender critical feminists experienced a significant de platforming, when SUFW tried to have meetings about the self id gender bill to discuss this legislation in public libraries. They were smeared and mis represented and one by one their meetings were shut down by the libraries.
SUFW then took Palmerston North Library to the High Court and won the right to hold their meeetings. The High Court judges declared SUFW was not a hate group.
In all my years of activism, I have never had this experience before and this was a group of women who are largely feminist, left wing and non denominational.
I apprecaite the Standard every day as a place I can exercise my free speech
not sure I would classify SUFW as largely left wing, but agree that it's unprecedented.
Weka
I did have a (way too long) comment written yestereve that I decided to put aside unposted. Not least because it might be taken, in part, as criticism of site moderators. I may recycle it from word processor folder next week when Sacha is allowed to participate in the discourse again.
Does their banning expire on next Saturday or Sunday?
Hi Temp. not sure sorry, I usually just count 7 days ahead so it's probably sometime on the 27th.
What transphobia?
There are a number of gender critical women (and some men) on this site, who don't agree with gender ideology or queer theory.
For me not only do I not accept these theories (although I accept the right of people to believe them), I see a lot of harmful things about these ideologies that are not get reported in the NZ media.
Amongst other things
I feel no shame whatsoever that I am speaking up about this.
I do not expect you to feel shame. It is one though.
Shame is always a tool used by cults. If you do not adhere to the beliefs of the cult. If you question the premises of the cult; in this instance the premise that one can choose ones gender and children should helped to do so with drugs and surgery then you should feel ashamed. Cults will also disfellowship people in other words cancel them and refuse to engage with them.This is very unhealthy and causes much harm. Why not engage and talk to other people and find out what they think and why. This is one of the things I really like about the standard.
What do you think would be the appropriate punishment for a social and colonial construct who refuses to feel shame for not believing in transubstantiation?
100 lashes with leaf lettuce from Luxon’s Bic Mac and mandatory reprogramming in Luxon’s boot camp by having to listen to all his episodes of QT until you feel tears of sorrow, pity, and shame and vote for anything but Labour or Green Party.
Salad daze.
Rhubarb rage
Apparently, it's having to expect and accept with resigned equanimity, inane responses such as the one above…
I am very much looking forward casting a vote for Legalise Aotearoa. No social constructs of any kind will be harmed with my vote. 🙂
People, especially self-righteous ones, are so quick to judge, especially when they miss the meaning of words and misunderstand and/or misinterpret the concepts, analogies, and metaphors used by others with whom they have already decided to disagree
Alternatively, it could just be that a shared sense of humour does not exist, given that no content to either agree or disagree with was on offer.
Eg. I thought your comment was not funny, and mine was.
As with many subjective comments rather than rational reasoned debates, judging one’s humour as funny or not is highly subjective. Perhaps it wasn’t humour per se but a means to convey something without making it sound too harsh in order to make it more palatable to those who are less receptive because of the dogmatic walls they have erected/constructed.
The first part of my comment was, of course, about (public) flogging and shaming as a form of punishment and a tool of manipulation. Public shaming is very common in sexual hate speech, as you know. Flogging with word salads is common here too; TS has its own Grand Executioner, who shall not be named right now, and some self-righteous regulars just love it.
I’m happy to expand and elaborate on my comment to demonstrate the underlying politics and political message that involves public shaming and invoking shame and conscience on this political blog to score points rather than to further/foster constructive debate. It may show you that there was actually an awful lot of content packed into that brief ‘inane’ comment of mine, which you happened to miss or ignore. Just say the word
". It may show you that there was actually an awful lot of content packed into that brief ‘inane’ comment of mine, which you happened to miss or ignore. Just say the word "
Thanks, Incognito for the offer.
The word is "No."
People who believe in trans theology/gender theory are perfectly within their rights to do so. Trying to evangelise others and force them into a belief system that they find idiotic (to put it politely) is what gets their backs up.
OTOH those who hold to trans theology/gender theory as a vital part of their identity have a right to feel aggrieved or offended when their religious beliefs are mocked. But that goes for any culture. It feels bad when Māori culture is sidelined or suppressed, or when my own religion is trashed in the news.
Doesn't give me a right to cancel the free speech of others or to force them to submit to my beliefs.
Agree.
Did you really mean 'transubstantiation' in its usual theological meaning:
'the conversion of the substance of the Eucharistic elements into the body and blood of Christ at consecration, only the appearances of bread and wine still remaining'.
or
Transubstantiation is, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, "the change of the whole substance of bread into the substance of the Body of Christ and of the whole substance of wine into the substance of the Blood of Christ"
as opposed to consubstantiation
https://www.britannica.com/topic/consubstantiation
These are long term uses of language. The trans debate has already cost bio women much in human rights with the lack of guaranteed access to safe spaces. Personally I would be unhappy if the trans debate also claimed a serviceable and specific word to its uses.
NB I support human rights ie no discrimination for transgender people but not at the cost of hard fought for human rights for women.
Or were you meaning it in the context of an Emperors New Clothes or Alice (words mean what I want them to mean).
In which case it is a very clever use.
transubstantiation,,,,,that the anti female trans community says happens to them even without any genital surgery, ie they magically turn to bio females.
I'd be happier though with the use of consubstantiation to represent my idea of what happens. Blood & wine of Christ are represented by wine and water. Trans women look like women but are not women.
Again reinforcing that no-one should be denied human rights or subject to insult by the way they look.
Again Sacha a clever use of words.
I think David Chappelle said it very well
"I support anyone's right to be who they want to be. My question is: to what extent do I have to participate in your self-image?"
I would add to that quote, at what stage am i allowed to opt out of participating in someone elses self image as a validation tool, specially when it starts to endanger those like me and removes my rights and the language that i need to advocate for myself and those like me.
Anyone can pretend/believe that an unleavened wafer and a drop of bad wine is the body and the blood of Christ, and anyone should be allowed to not believe that same thing. In the end, it is only an unleavened wafer and a drop of bad wine.
Ditto for people who would like to pretend that they are the other sex. They are not. They can present stereotypically feminine or masculine, but no male has ever given birth and no female has ever inseminated another.
And it will also not happen in the future. These are just basic facts of life. And we should be able to admit these realities, and build on that.
Disclaimer: I lived for nine years in a convent and well, i don't do submission and obedience very well i guess.
I agree with what you say.
Thankfully the school I went to Anglican, prided itself of growing, for want of a better word, stroppy females prepared to question. We led a huge revolt when a headmaster tried to move us from middlebrow Anglican to High Anglican, with all sorts of prayers throughout the day. To do this meant urgent research on all matters theological so we could marshall our arguments. So we were not submissive either.
This is very powerful Sabine.
No NZ government on our history has advanced the interests of the trans community like this one in both legal protection and directed health expenditure.
What this government needs to work on more is protecting them from physical harm.
The survey on how well NZPolice are dealing with the massively high proportion of violence against trans and binary people will have useful results for Police and for comparing against the last Crime and Victims Survey.
Transgender, non-binary abuse victims asked for experiences with police | Stuff.co.nz
This actual protection from violence, not more legislation, is where they need to focus their effort.
That article demonstrates very little evidence of harm, but rather survey respondents self- perception of harm:
"…including the fear of being discriminated against…"
This is a particular interesting example, worth further discussion:
""We have seen changes, for example if a trans woman is being assaulted by her husband, and he says that's because he's found out she's trans, that will no longer be treated as an excuse," she says."
So, let's go through this:
(NB: Framed as a long-term relationship through the use of husband, implying marriage and previous intimate knowledge, but is relevant in terms of any intimate relationship, including casual sex.)
Looking for information regarding this issue from our own advisory rainbow community organisations, it is not fully addressed, while they advocate consent be agreed upon, they also advise that as a transperson you are not compelled to "out yourself" to anyone.
If you engage in a sexual act with someone who you know has a sexual orientation that excludes you as an intimate partner, and know that they perceive you to be another sex, and you not only don't rectify that perception but encourage it – is this either sex by deception, sexual orientation conversion of some type, or both?
Perception of harm, better known as fear, is a pretty useful indicator of your place in the offending world.
Now that self-identification is easier, the Police reporting and community reporting will get more specific. The last NZCVS one I've seen was 2021.
NZCVS-LGB-Final.pdf (justice.govt.nz)
"Perception of harm, better known as fear, is a pretty useful indicator of your place in the offending world."
Is it, though?
Surely there are justifiers missing there, such as "realistic" or indeed "justified" perception of harm.
Otherwise, an unrealistic or unjustifiable perception of harm is given equal merit in consideration.
harm….. always in the eyes of the beholder, right?
did you see this?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/19/ministry-justice-officials-warned-talk-protecting-women-could/
Yes, I did.
"“protect women’s spaces/protecting women and girls”" is dogwhistle, huh?
#NoImpact they lied.
Seems like ground is being lost so quickly at the moment.
The ground was lost a long time ago, now they are just making it public for those that thought that there was still a ‘fight’ going on. And all the major parties agree to this, just like they all agree on hate speech laws and the likes.
in the UK that's not true. Case law has now established that GC beliefs are protected against discrimination. It appears where there is push back the genderist stuff falls (seems to be happening with the arresting people for tweets thing too). Public pressure is helping, more people are speaking up.
It will probably take another court case to test HMPPS policy and whether it is legal. These are not minimal gains, they are serious ones. It means that in the UK Judges ultimately get to decide what is fair and reasonable, not MPs.
Laws are only good if they are enforced by those that enforce the law.
I can think in English, German, French.
I can also speak English while having a German conversation with my relatives which always is quite funny as it takes some time to switch of. In essence they speak German, my brain understands it but my answers come in English and i did the same while living in France and visiting home.
But i am an easy learner of languages speaking and reading- but i can't write for the life of me in any language, that really demands effort and literally hurts my brain.
I also dream in German, English and French.
Edit: i do however not translate from German into English or French, i simply speak these languages with the vocabulary i have and am continuously adding new words to hat vocabulary.
Edit to my previous comment re thinking in a foreign language.
While the voice in my head speaks english – i don't consider myself as thinking.
If i were to live in full immersion of Te Reo i would soon enough speak Te Reo. With of course horrible grammar and all that, but i would be able to survive in a place where that would be the only language spoken. If that makes sense to you?
it does. You are fortunate to have that gift. I don't have the ear so have to learn the hard way.
This is it actually, i don't think the language i hear it. Language has a sound, ones the sound becomes familiar the sentences have beginnings and ends, the words suddenly jump out and you can literally see them as individuals. Advertising on telly is great for it as you have the action/product, the written word and the sound. Link the sound to the image of the word and the action / product so easy. My favorite TV show at the time a brilliant music telly production called Taratata with Nagui.
But the best tools for learning a language is a dictionary with phonetic writing in them, which i had for english. Hence why I have some abilities to communicate in the written word.
For your other discussion the word that i would have used -specially in that context would have been Whenua.
#no impact – they lied.
No they did not. They never lied.
It is just us that thought that at least a few may care what happens to the non persons that birthed them, that are their offspring, that are their partners. And that these few may find some spine and guts and heart to fight for these things in their lives.
But i think the ones that will find this hardest to deal with these changes are those with education. The poor among us already know this and in many places live their life without dignity, safety and respect. And other then lip service nothing is paid to their plight. The difference between the Taliban in Afghanistan and the Taliban in England is simple. The one hides their property under a bedsheet for ‘protection’ the other erases every mention of their property in public records, removes the words that used to describe them, and pretends its progressive and good for all. The effects are the same.
And the educated PHD holding and sitting in Parliament Serena Joys of this world will learn it in due time, as will the dears in our political parties that still feel so progressive about their pronouns and daily linguistic incantations to affirm their loyalty to the cause.
I understand why young ones cut of their breast and inject anabolic steroids like it was a saline solution, it is their way out of this misery and hopefully be accorded the privilege of being male and thus granted a chance at a decent life.
We are now effectively back in the times were the word women did not appear in any legal texts, were women were incomplete men in the medical texts and washing hands was not something to expect from a doctor, were women are property to birth , clean and provide sexual services and other free of charge labour, were women are things to own, use and dispose of. And anyone even just daring to to feel conflicted about this shit is a phobe or sorts who hates men in skirts that go spinny.
The day men and some women thought that locking violent males in prison cells with women was progressive was the day women were thrown in the village pond to see if they float whilst tied to a chair.
One question that i have, is transgenderism a religion? And will that fall under the protection of the hate speech laws?
Thanks Sabine.
Just when I think it couldn't get worse, this government promises to fast track hate speech legislation.
Many left wing and progressive people will support this because they have cultivated a habit of censure and shaming when challenged by disagreement. Add in a bit of sanctified victimhood, and the expectation of reasoned discussion is no longer necessary.
Who needs it when we all know what is hateful (and unkind)?
Shame, shame on those who might suggest opposing such legislation. Do they have no empathy for those who have a perception of fear?
https://www.police.govt.nz/advice-services/advice-victims/hate-crime
"A hate crime is an offence perceived by the victim, or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice towards a person’s race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability or age.
A hate incident is an act perceived to be motivated by hate for these characteristics, but doesn’t meet the threshold of being considered a crime.
Hate crimes and hate incidents can encompass a broad range of acts, including threatening behaviour, harassment and verbal abuse, online abuse, criminal damage, assault and sexual violence.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-has-high-female-murder-rate/I543VT6NW7UZRVBUSQ6AONJUCY/
Despite our high female murder rate, and non-existent transgender body count (long may it continue) – which protected characteristic from the Human Rights Act (1993) is missing (alongside marital status)? – and which is an inclusion of a characteristic that is not in the same Act?
Three guesses. (Though if you need more than one, don't bother.)
Given this current policy, how do you see this hate legislation shaping up, Sabine?
Because I'm thinking it's going to be horrendous.
Yes, yes… I hear the bell…
GIF – but not embedded:
https://external-preview.redd.it/Gb4_ryKNoxM7lfXoHx–EH67HYxsihzGeoybcXFIopQ.gif?format=mp4&s=c08132794602ed0054dd156ef4760eaf721a619e
how do i think it is progressing?
My dear, we shall meet in the ponds, on the stakes, scolded and shamed for daring to not be obedient property. As it was done in the past.
in answer to your link.
https://www.feministcurrent.com/2016/10/04/this-is-how-they-broke-our-grandmothers/
Hey Sabine, for another conversation, can you think in both English and German?
@Sabine
Thanks for the link. So many books, so little time…
"My dear, we shall meet in the ponds, on the stakes, scolded and shamed for daring to not be obedient property. As it was done in the past"
And people criticised women for lunching, when these alternatives remained ready and waiting…
Shaming us for having lunches is just the beginning. It all starts somewhere and it ends with us not having the right to define us, meet among ourselves and simply be.
the things that we are are to validate others, serve them, seen but never heard.
Which leaves this question -last raised sometime during the 1400 – are we actually human?
Archived article for those who couldn't get past the paywall:
https://archive.ph/sqpWm
This tweet has the actual document in it:
https://twitter.com/NoXYinXXprisons/status/1594111361692225537?s=20&t=UiJFZLNrNIrCvreDuZ8JlA
Words not allowed to be meaningful or accurate.
of course words can't have meaning …… that would be counteractive to the movement. Words mean what ever those in power mean at the time they state them. Humpty Dumpty is their best friend and inspiration.
Are you arguing that there is no such thing as informed consent to having sex with a transgender person, if this is not known in advance?
Or are you arguing that someone is having their sexual orientation compromised when they sleep someone who is transgender without knowing this in advance?
Sex by deception – lies about background (marital/relationship status, fake dating site profiles) …
I am inviting discussion on this issue.
"Or are you arguing that someone is having their sexual orientation compromised when they sleep someone who is transgender without knowing this in advance?"
At the very least – if that sexual orientation is known beforehand – there is a degree of disrespect, don't you think? For lesbians and gays the notion that their sexual orientation was due to the fact they just hadn't met the right "man" or "woman" was a battle seemingly won decades ago. How have we returned to this battleground?
(IIRC, sex by deception includes non-disclosure of positive STD status as well.)
There is only one case of successful prosecution of sexual assault in this scenario that I am aware of (in the UK):
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/29/gayle-newland-found-guilty-at-retrial-of-tricking-female-friend-into-sex
AFAIK, Gayle did not identify as transgender so the discussion can be about the right of both parties to information before engaging in intimate acts.
Successful prosecution regarding non-disclosure of HIV status:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/331698/man-sentenced-after-knowingly-infecting-partner-with-hiv
The charge was grievous bodily harm with reckless disregard:
"Mikio Filitonga was found guilty by jury in March of a charge of grievous bodily harm with reckless disregard and in the Auckland District Court was sentenced to two years and 10 months in jail yesterday."
I suspect the obligation for disclosure falls under public health regulations:
"Filitonga tested positive for the virus on 27 February 2013.
On 26 July that year he was told of his legal obligations as an HIV positive man by a nurse."
In practice only informed consent as to public health (after instruction of a requirement to inform others of an infection) applies to date.
… the UK case cited is truly outlier (given the person was willing to not see – be blindfolded – and wanted penetrative sex with a male partner), as conviction required belief that the victim did not recognise her best female friend (a lesbian) as the “male” she was dating.
One wonders if long term relationships (between a transgender person and another) could later be posed as having been without informed consent, once they end. Bitter break-ups …
"In practice only informed consent as to public health (after instruction of a requirement to inform others of an infection) applies to date."
That distinction is made in the paper below, which has some other interesting considered scenarios, including some similar to after breakup dissatisfaction.
The UK case is interesting, and is it a scenario that is more likely to occur with young people who are likely to be more compliant and uncertain in sexual relationships, or is it something else – or nothing else, just a one-off?
It appears that the woman convicted was unable to acknowledge her same-sex orientation, so created a persona (NOT gender identity) in order to separate that orientation as a method of dealing with it.
That can be understood.
And the successful mechanics of subterfuge seems like something that may be interpreted as willful blindness.
While that cannot be discounted, it must also be considered that the young woman who was convicted also became intimate friends with the woman who was misled, and would likely have influenced her to accept the conditions of contact and intimacy laid down by her male persona.
So, it was a lengthy, and sustained level of deception which may not be duplicated again.
However, the impact on the woman – who is heterosexual, upon discovering that her sexual partner was a female – was reported as significant. Her response indicates her level of distress.
There's also a 2013 NZ specific paper on this topic that provides further points of discussion:
https://www.otago.ac.nz/law/research/journals/otago065276.pdf
They make a point about the distinction between informed consent in medicine, as opposed to informed consent in personal intimate relationships (P 14):
What are the rates of violence against trans and non binary Ad? or don't we have them yet?
We do have homicide figures and the rates of murder against trans or non binary are low compared to the rest of the population.
Last murder of a transgender person was a cross dresser whose drug deal when wrong in or around 2009.
BTW I condeme violence against anyone in the most whole hearted terms and believe protection from such, if it can be provided is paramount.
I put the 2021 NZCVS in the above.
NZCVS-LGB-Final.pdf (justice.govt.nz)
"LGB adults are more than twice as likely to experience intimate partner violence (IPV) and/or sexual violence (68% of bisexual adults and 57% of lesbian or gay adults have experienced IPV and/or sexual violence) compared to the NZ average (29%) based on the NZCVS."
I'd expect this will get more specific now that the categories are easier to self-identify.
"I'd expect this will get more specific now that the categories are easier to self-identify."
Why would that be more specific?
Also, wouldn't there also be potential for loss of accuracy regarding violence statistics in regards to sex and sexual orientation if people can self-identify in and out of statistical groups?
Easier to identify now that there's clearer legal identification.
In answer to your second question: no it's so small it will statistically wrinse out.
"In answer to your second question: no it's so small it will statistically wrinse out."
Even if I agreed – which I don't – wouldn't that reasoning work both ways?
Let's wait and see but my suspicion is less than minor.
Coming up in March next year is the census, and it will be the first to ask everyone about their gender, sexual identity, and whether they have any variations of sex, getting straight to questions on ones':
They can't help but to a better job than last time.
"They can't help but to a better job than last time."
A better job in what respect?
Giving someone an opportunity to declare an identity?
And/or gathering accurate and useful data in terms of identifying effective means to reduce violence?
ie. The gender question is now ambiguous.
Does it refer to sex or gender identity? Even if intended for one or the other, will it be answered consistently? If that cannot be assumed, accuracy is already compromised.
"variations of sex characteristics "
Also self-subjective, so not particularly useful in quantitive analysis.
I do agree that good quality data is necessary, however, I am not reassured it will be achieved.
Sorry, just realised that we've moved onto the census, rather than the surveys initially discussed, in which case the reference to violence is limited.
The rest in regards to accuracy in terms of analysis, and effective use remains.
Do they have a definition of these "variation of sex characteristics" or are they lumping people with Differences or Variations of Sex Development – which are medical conditions (used to be called "Intersex") in with sexuality and/or gender identity? Unfortunately, these 40 or so known syndromes have been weaponised by gender idealogues in an attempt to prove that sex is some sort of spectrum. It provides no such evidence in that those that are fertile – and many are not- produce either sperm or eggs so do not create additional sexes and certainly do not change sex. It is just more idealogical obfuscation which seems to have been swallowed wholesale by lawmakers.
@visubversa. Link here:
https://www.stats.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Reports/2023-Census-Final-content-report/2023-Census-Final-content-report.pdf
I can foresee data accuracy issues.
Personally I keep thinking that the recent proliferation of endocrine disruptors from all plastics, pesticides and soy based food sources may well have something to do with all of this.
https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine/index.cfm
@RedLogix
Endocrine disruption is an interesting area. Since reading Rachel Carson's Silent Spring, I think that determining if there is an environmental factor is always a question that should be answered.
I do think that around this topic of gender identity other factors come into play, especially taking into account the ever expanding notion of what falls under this umbrella. (eg. Drag Queens ) and the Q+ coterie.
Starting point will be the old-school transsexuals, so distress due to dysphoria will still be a part. But it is a small part now, and nowhere near the whole. (NB. Current gender ideology considers that expecting distress and even a dysphoria/gender incongruence diagnosis is transphobic).
After looking at many sources, including from those who identify as transgender, I think there are a multitude of different routes to self-identification.
Identifying the most common, and the demographic of who travels each path is important.
Despite the collective moniker, the starting points, journeys and destinations are often markedly different.
@Molly
Yes – I was not suggesting that widespread endocrine disruption was the sole driving factor here – but I get the sense it has been rather overshadowed by the far more visible and noisier cultural debate.
And as an engineer my mind naturally gravitates toward possible root causes.
Among the many disastrous mistakes of the medical community it is the often overlooked DES debacle:
While DES turned out to be a remarkably powerful disruptor, many of the chemicals listed in my reference in my first comment are rather similar especially Bisphenol A (BPA) – in its estrogen like behaviour:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_Bisphenol_A
BPA is almost ubiquitous in our environment and while it is mostly chemically bound to other components, small amounts of it inevitably hydrolyse and become biologically available.
All this is subject to some degree of controversy among the specialist community – but frankly I would be very keen to see this issue get more political visibility. There are much wider implications around human fertility than just the trans debate we are having here.
@RedLogix
The fertility issue is huge – and one I occasionally spend time on. I think the factors you have listed are unfortunately only two entries in a long list. The DES, I'd come across before. Of interest is the sentence that follows advice on medical vigilance:
I'd add: as yet.
BPA is a concern, which has led to old school personal preferences for food a drink storage, although it can't fully be avoided.
Small amounts are enough to have significant impacts on the endocrine system.
Recently, are acknowledging long-term health impacts from the contraceptive pill.
The interference of the endocrine system that is labelled affirming healthcare is not informed by robust clinical evidence. That fact should concern everyone regardless of perspective.
Gender – is that sex – large gamete vs small gamete?
Sexual identity – is that based on gender or sexual attraction? There is a huge difference between 'same gender' attraction or 'same sex' attraction.
i.e.
transwomen – transwomen = lesbian = same gender attraction
transwomen – female = lesbian = same gender attraction
human female – female = lesbian = same gender attraction
transman + female = hetero = opposite gender attraction
transwoman + male = hetero = opposite gender attraction
male – female – hetero= opposite gender attraction
transman + male = gay = same gender attraction
transman + transman = gay -= same gender attraction
male + male = gay = same gender attraction
Glossary:
Transwomen – male presenting as a female
Transman – female presenting as male
male – adult human male – standard edition
female – adult human female – standard edition
Non binary – everyone who can't be bothered really playing the game but wants some of that transcred cause being male/female is so boring and cis. 🙂
You can now fill forms out in which you can be "other".
And thus, the male that got locked into a female prisons for a short stay of 9 years and a few month for going into into a restaurant on a stabbing spree stabbing two and slashing the face of of his ex is a women crime and a women on women crime and everyone will have to pretend to have been assaulted by a 'woman'. She/her and all that stubble and jazz.
I mean if you want to devalue accurate record keeping about the countries population growth, future population growths, about crime, and such that is the way to go.
We might as well be counting sheep and declaring them cows.
"We might as well be counting sheep and declaring them cows."
Wool and dairy forecasts may be a bit off …
I knew about the higher rates of intimate partner violence amongst lesbian couples.
That was one of the surprising findings to come out of the fabulous Dunedin Multidiscliplinary Study. I have searched that study to see what if anything they have found out about transgender people and to date have found nothing. Suspect that is to do with the cohorts age group (pre gender ideology and queer theory taking hold) and also because the cohort is around 1000, just not enough numbers
And don't forget Toko Shane Winter (who demands to be called Ashley) who was convicted for the sadistic torture and murder of a young woman in 2019. The NZ media showered him with female pronouns and called him a woman several times right throughout his trial, conviction and sentencing for this crime. They had become a bit more balanced when it came to reporting his unsuccessful appeal.
The govt spening money on gender affirming care is highly problematic and may lead to some of the situations overseas, for example the gender clinic at the Tavistock Clinic in London. After senior paedeatrian Dr Hillary Cass was half way through her review she ordered the clinic be closed due to safety concerns. A highly unsual move for an NHS trust.
The concerns were around the use of puberty blockers, automatic affirmation of gender identity and the lack of a comprehensive assessment for youngster who most often had significant co-morbidities with their gender dysphoria. The Tavistock is also facing a significant class action taken by families and patients who have been damaged by this approach.
But if you want to sing the praises of this govt for going down this dubious pathway, then don't let me stop you.
Remember that prior to 1990s the rates of transgender people was something like one in thirty thousand. Teen girls where almost unheard of in the early days of the Tavistock clinic. Then around the time of the invention of the smart phone there was an exponential growith in teen girls presenting to gender clinics. Many of them had been exposed to trans information in chat rooms. Social contagian if very common in adolescent girls. We have seen it with girls with anoerexia, bulimia, self harm and now gender dysphoria. The govt in endorsing gender affirming care , is endorsing the wrong approach for these troubled youngsters
Just finishing lunchtime and glanced back at this site. Too many responses to reply to now, I will get onto that this evening if I have the energy.
As those prone to racism, misogyny and homophobia carve out niches on social media to support their ideas, an easy path is not to engage with that toxicity. Good on you Temp ORary for having the courage to state that you feel you have encountered "suffocating transphobia" here. Hope it's OK to post links in response. Kia kaha.
The central role of empathy in reducing exclusionary behaviour is an interesting observation – several online questionaires are available for assessing empathy.
Sentiment Analysis Scale
I believe what would be truly admirable, is when someone who makes this accusation actually posts examples of it.
Is this what you are referring to? – the successful prosecution of Richard Jacobs:
"New Zealand has laws against hate speech but they only apply to discrimination on the basis of race, ethnicity or national origin. The letter of the law is so broad that courts have adopted a much narrower interpretation since it was passed in 1993, meaning only a single successful prosecution for hate speech has occurred in the past 29 years. That case was last year, when Tauranga man Richard Jacobs posted a YouTube video calling for genocide and a race war against Māori."
If it is, I'm going to make an assumption (correct me if I am wrong) that you do not disagree with either the prosecution or the success.
So, is it that you wish that more prosecutions take place?
1. Because many others are calling for genocide on the basis of a protected characteristic?
2. Because the level of genocide is too high a bar for hate speech, and you want that determinator to be something else? What do you propose?
Your links to Canada etc are unexceptional, particularly given that Canada is justifying a lot of atrocities in the name of progression these days. A trial currently is taking place for a nurse in regards to her speech:
https://en.protothema.gr/nurse-amy-hamm-fights-for-sex-based-freedom-of-expression-today-in-court/
Is this Canadian distinction the one you seek to emulate here in NZ?
As for the domestic The Disinformation Project – is it truly possible that there are those on the left that do not recognise The Ministry of Truth when it lands on our shores?
Re the current court case, it will be informative to have written and recorded the police's decision not to prosecute and why, and the judgement:
"Timmins was backing the case of Auckland man Russell Hoban against the attorney-general about a West Auckland pastor’s sermon, posted on Facebook in April 2017, that called for gay people to be shot. Timmins described the pastor as “self-titled” and said the sermon was recorded in the man’s lounge.
“My view on homo marriage is that the Bible never mentions it so I’m not against them getting married … As long as a bullet goes through their head the moment they kiss,” the pastor said.
No charges were laid for inciting violence against gay people."
Left the links in because they are necessary for those who haven't read the article.
Given the obvious incitement to violence against those practicing homosexuality (as indicated by a marriage), the police failure to prosecute would seem inexplicable. Might be a next time we will warning case …
Generally most people would oppose threats of violence to individuals or groups of individuals (race, ethnicity, origin and extend that to sex, gender, sexuality, religion).
The question would be around incitement to violence (such violence being a hate crime) and then onto hate itself.
Given that they were successful in prosecuting Richard Jacobs, above, I think it's really important to show how they made that decision.
There is not enough details in the article, that perhaps the published decision will provide.
I suspect the Jacobs case was easily identified as a call for genocide: "calling for genocide and a race war against Māori." whereas the Timmins case was related not to a call for genocide because of homosexuality, but the self-declared pastor's response to the acceptance of gay marriage. A small difference, but it should be clarified if this is the interpretation.
Well i guess these colonial and societal construct are just getting their deserved come uppance being locked up with a male offender who stabbed three people – one of them the ex of the offender who stabbed the colonial and societal construct in the lungs and slashed the face.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/130471744/restaurant-triple-stabber-jailed-for-nine-years-and-three-months
Lets all feel ashamed for thinking that this is wrong.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ReduxxMag/status/1592581398787133440
brilliant Sabine
Perhaps a "reflective circle" is required – such as the one a young high-school student had to attend when she challenged the presence of a boy in the girls changing room:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11366041/amp/School-let-trans-girl-making-threats-girl-complained-using-girls-bathroom.html
"It also claims that the school turned a blind eye to ‘death threats’ made against Blake by the transgender student, who said after the locker room incident ‘I’m going to f***ing kill Blake Allen’.
They are said to have been selective in their discipline, despite suspending Blake for two days for 'misgendering' the student, then ordering her to take part in a 'reflective circle' where she returned.
That saw equity coordinator Jamie Connor and other students attempt to brainwash Blake into seeing the error of her ways, it is alleged. "
I'm sure there are a few on here that would enjoy the get-together – I mean the opportunity to "reflect".
The only difficulty I can see would be to find someone to volunteer as " equity coordinator" for the aforementioned shameful ones…
Christ! The reflective circle. I happen to be re-reading 1984 at the moment.
Yes let this young woman experience the reflective circle. We must eradicate wrong think!
In my life time it has taken so much work (by other women) to tell women and girls they can trust their instincts and if they speak up they will be heard
That might explain the black mirror (TV series name) as to be being enlightened in such a circle, as to agreeing with the group opinion.
According to the Herald today, Winston Peters for the first time ever in his political career, is ruling out working with two parties prior to the election – bold move. (Premium content so have not attached)
Judging by some of the comments on this blog, this could be a clever tactic.
It doesn’t matter if it is ‘premium content’ or not, you should still provide a link for verification for and by others, preferably with a note/warning about it being behind a paywall or subscription-only.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/nz-first-leader-winston-peters-would-he-work-again-with-labour/WJHT3DVJFNBW5FYG2SKKFTGZRE/
Paywalled.
Do you know Alan, is Winston saying he won't go with Labour or the Greens?
Wonder if it was hiding He puapua from him before the last election or Trev tresspassin g him that did it. But actually maybe I am wrong, perhaps he is happy to go with L and G and it is some other party he's ruling out. Opps just seen from the headline its Labour plus???
L and MP
(based on not having read anything paywalled at the Herald)
Not actually true – he has until now ruled out being in a coalition with either ACT and Greens.
Thus campaigning as the centrist partner of either National or Labour (reducing ACT and Greens as support partner of one coalition or the other).
He intends to campaign like he did in 1996, against the government. But in this case rules out forming a coalition afterwards.
The option he proffers is National on the right (taking votes off ACT) and NZ First (taking votes Labour won off National in 2020) in the centre.
In dividing against Labour and MP he is making fear of "He Puapua" (indigenous peoples rights and Treaty partnership concepts) front and centre of a "majoritarian democracy" alliance between National and NZF (nostalgia for the simplicity of the pavlova paradise assimilationist age baby boomers were raised up in – as per the Brexit vote in the UK). Winston is doing a Boris.
In not excluding ACT or Greens, Peters leaves open a competition between them to be the support partner to a National-NZF coalition if that is required.
His technical difficulty – he will struggle to gain as many votes in the centre as he might want/need if he does not rule out a coalition including ACT. And ACT could rule out supporting a National-NZF coalition if they were not included.
Winston Peters for the first time ever in his political career
His language directed at Bolger and National before 1996 was even stronger than his criticism of Ardern. It meant nothing.
But let's face it, we've had this dance many times before, and in the end it comes down to the same old question: do we learn from experience or not? Note the language used: "rule out" … "work with" … To quote Game Of Thrones … "words are wind".
2023 Winston: "I did not say that, you in the media always get it wrong", etc, etc.
When he writes a legally-binding document with affidavit that says "I refuse to be Deputy PM or Foreign Minister or take any role in government offered by Labour even if they offer it and National don't … also, here is my bond of a million dollars which I will forfeit if I break this promise" – then it'll mean something.
Until then, Winston gonna Winston. Fools gonna believe.
I prefer Seymour’s twerking to Winston’s Tango For One, by, for, and with Winston. Winston goes for the sentimental value of nostalgia and glory days of the past that never really were. Trotter will love it.
Winston Peters' speech, before 2005 election:
"We are in this for our policies – not the perks of office. …
Now the voters know New Zealand First will not be in government – by our own choice – they also deserve to know that we intend to serve New Zealanders, as we always have, by keeping the next government honest.
… It involves for my colleagues a real sacrifice, but we willingly make it. For my part, I never took as deputy Prime Minister ministerial cars or a house, so we genuinely don’t care about the baubles of office."
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0509/S00180.htm
(and so after the election, he became Helen Clark's Foreign Minister, and took other portfolios too).
A big shoutout to the Capital Kiwi Project for reaching their conservation milestone of releasing 250 Kiwi onto 23,000 hectares of mostly private land in the Wellington region.
In particular to the landowners of the big Terawhiti block, Kinnoull, Meridian, Mill Creek Farms, Papanui Boomrock, Pikarere, many of which have been in families for generations.
Kiwi to call the capital home as huge conservation project comes to fruition | Stuff.co.nz
This is a private protected area larger than Abel Tasman National Park. This kind of project takes years and years to do, so also well done to all the Trustees in particular previous Mayor Kerry Prendergast.
Latest New Zealand deprivation index is out.
Check out the sea of red in Auckland's west and south. Anywhere east of Tauranga. Most of the West Coast.
New Zealand Index of Deprivation, 2018 (NZDep2018) (arcgis.com)
This is tough reading when compared against the previous ones.
Interesting Ad. Though those figures up to 2018. Areas gone redder 2013 to 2018. Not sure if that is meaningful?
be good to see a post on this, esp with the comparison.
Is the upper West Coast related to the floods of recent years, or have they exacerbated an already dire situation?
Western Southland is interesting too.
Much of the red colour outside main cities is old people on fixed incomes selling the house in the city, banking the cash, moving somewhere cheap, and just living off the basics to eke it out.
Makes for a very old small regional town.
And most of them are shrinking.
Welcome to the hyper-ageing nation that is New Zealand | Stuff.co.nz
First extreme cold event of the season starts in US with Buffalo hit by snow lake effect and 4 foot falls,due to ridging event in Alaska.
NE US will be susceptible to energy outages (as a number of other loc) during prolonged weather events.NE very marginal due to reliance on fuel oil/LNG and Diesel with high cost burdens.
https://twitter.com/SStapczynski/status/1593466063437471745
https://twitter.com/NWSBUFFALO/status/1593422519297445888?cxt=HHwWgMCo_djV_JwsAAAA
Given most of the human beings receiving puberty blockers are females and most of the teens receiving gender related surgery are female (breast removal), it is not surprising people are relating this to girls being tomboys, puberty transformation struggles and teenage female body image issues rather than to an actual greater gender issue for females than for those born male at those ages.
This would explain the move of late Sweden and onto UK (and now in the USA) to less physiological and more psychological intervention. The do no harm approach then follows the approach of counsellors as to teens and sexuality, not to rush to identify but offer affirmative support to their personal development and understanding over time.
There are sex-based differences in causes, transition methods and impacts that emphasise the need to identify and address these cohorts as having distinct and unique support and needs.
Treating all who are transgender the same, is not patient-centred care.
Abigail Shrier’s book: Irreversible Damage
https://www.amazon.com/Irreversible-Damage-Transgender-Seducing-Daughters/dp/1684510317
examines that female teenage cohort and possible reasons for growth.
Thread to distract from the madness.
https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1593765531366182912
that's not creepy 😕
Reminds me of the place of that dude played by Geoff Goldblum in one of the Marvel films (don't remember which one, Guardians of the Galaxy?)
Jeff the Grandmaster – Thor:Ragnarok
👍
NASA video showing monthly global temperature changes between 1880 and 2022.
https://climate.nasa.gov/climate_resources/300/video-climate-spiral/