Open Mike 19/02/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 19th, 2016 - 124 comments
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124 comments on “Open Mike 19/02/2016 ”

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    • Chooky 1.1
      19 February 2016 at 7:52 am

      ..sad!…they didnt realise what they were doing ( humans really are an idiot species)

      • pat 1.1.1
        19 February 2016 at 8:00 am

        aint that the truth

      • greywarshark 1.1.2
        19 February 2016 at 11:23 am

        Whatever it was they did, (haven’t the inclination to read about it), it would be lack of thinking which needs to happen before you can realise anything. If they handled a wild animal they would be acting in their child mode, which is how many people react to things these days. Everything has a 30-second reception limit before turning to something novel, and before understanding or reasoning can arise.

        It is not dissimilar to the conditions in the Huxley’s book Brave New World where people constantly seek stimulation, new experiences, their minds are so open that no adult thought ever gets to connect with deep brain for a moment, just blows right across and out the other side. They have been programmed to be that way and the payoff is that they never have to feel sadness and little pain!

        • Incognito 1.1.2.1
          19 February 2016 at 11:11 pm

          In fact our average attention span has been reduced by a third in the past 15 years to eight seconds, according to a 2015 study conducted by Microsoft.

          A goldfish now has a longer attention span than we do (9 seconds).
          …
          The truth, is our brains are hardwired to constantly wander from one thing to the other. It’s just what they do.
          …
          Because the most valuable skills to possess as we advance into the 21st century are those of deep human interaction, something we are losing the ability to do.

          The whole article is actually quite interesting although the title may be slightly off-putting: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11585247

  2. Chooky 2
    19 February 2016 at 7:50 am

    How right wing economists and banksters removed from reality and human justice get it wrong! ( it is about time these white collar criminals are called to account)

    Episode 876

    https://www.rt.com/shows/keiser-report/332586-episode-max-keiser-876/

    “Every week Max Keiser looks at all the scandal behind the financial news headlines.
    In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert discuss the unintended geo-economic and financial consequences of trying to treat economics and politics as a science.

    They note the capital flight from Italy and Spain, and the growth of deposits in Russia due to sanctions.

    They also look at the lawsuit by American victims of Mexican drug cartels against HSBC, who they allege directly committed an act of terrorism.

    In the second half, Max interviews Mitch Feierstein of PlanetPonzi.com about the Fed’s attempt to taper a ponzi, the market chaos it has caused and the negative rates trying to stop the debt deflation.

  3. ankerawshark 3
    19 February 2016 at 9:16 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/77035995/Is-the-Ministry-of-Health-playing-a-sick-joke

    I thought I would post this after a recent thread about the mental health of Cantabrians with one contributor who said he was from Christchurch suggesting the people down there just needed to move on. The situation in Chch is a National disgrace.

    • Chooky 3.1
      19 February 2016 at 9:36 am

      +100…the disruption and upheaval and stress has been enormous for many people in Christchurch…I am sure some have died because of this…and others have broken relationships as well as broken houses and children with post traumatic stress

      …this jonkey nactional government has been and is negligent …it seems to be without conscience

      • ianmac 3.1.1
        19 February 2016 at 9:51 am

        My sister and brotherinlaw are well into their 80s and were shattered by the aftermath of the earthquakes. The drawn out repairs saga cost them dearly. This is real but they sought no specialist help believing that there were others worse off.

      • vto 3.1.2
        19 February 2016 at 10:12 am

        People definitely died after the quakes due to the stress and heartbreak, especially the elderly. The young ones cry. The middle ones creak and groan and try to carry on.

    • Expat 3.2
      19 February 2016 at 1:34 pm

      I posted this link yesterday about the devastating effect on the people of Christchurch since the earthquakes in 2011, I hadn’t heard any thing about the situation there for a long time, and was disappointed after seeing this with slow reconstruction and the ongoing disputes with insurance companies, what’s the matter with this govt.

      http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2015/s4408012.htm

    • Foreign waka 3.3
      19 February 2016 at 10:16 pm

      I saw just recently on TV an interview with people from Napier. A lady stated that the city was rebuild with 2 years! Yes, Christchurch is bigger but it is now 5 years and there are people are still without a home. The area around Latimar square looks very bleak and this is the inner city. It would be interesting to know how many people have been affected and of that how many still are.

  4. mary_a 4
    19 February 2016 at 10:03 am

    FFS this isn’t news worthy!

    Mum and Dad and their boy wonder all travel to Sydney together. So what? Hope junior paid his own fare!

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11592067

    • alwyn 4.1
      19 February 2016 at 10:32 am

      Almost certainly yes. If he pays for his wife’s fare when she accompanies him I very much doubt he would try and claim for Max.
      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/67631586/MPs-Europe-trip-WAGs-should-stay-home
      I don’t think their is any possibility he would lie about it as the travel costs have to be published every 3 months or so.
      I wonder whether Helen personally paid for Peter on the occasions she took him along?

      • Ad 4.1.1
        19 February 2016 at 10:47 am

        He pays his own way.

        • alwyn 4.1.1.1
          19 February 2016 at 10:56 am

          I meant when she was PM and it was an official occasion when spouses were expected to be present.
          Heads of Government meetings and so on.
          Personally I think Key takes it too far on those sort of things.

          • Lindsey 4.1.1.1.1
            19 February 2016 at 1:10 pm

            Well as Peter won’t use his Gold Card on the bus because he is still working, I think it unlikely that he is going to be accepting or costing five cents more than the absolute minimum entitlement. It was important that Helen take Peter to things where partners were expected or required, there were enough haters and liars making accusations about their marriage as it was.

        • kenny 4.1.1.2
          19 February 2016 at 8:20 pm

          Flown to Sydney by the Royal NZ Air Force – so no payment necessary.

    • Tc 4.2
      19 February 2016 at 1:40 pm

      max’s song is there also promoting the brand. Its sooo obvious granny doesnt even attempt to fake having balance anymore after moving on the non aligned commentators.

  5. Pasupial 5
    19 February 2016 at 10:31 am

    If you were going to choose a name for an AI program that was involved in selecting targets for unmanned drone strikes, which is the worst possible choice? SKYNET

    “The Lay Scientist” has a piece in today’s Guardian deriding the work of those involved in revealing and analysing this program:

    Here’s where The Intercept and Ars Technica really go off the deep end. The last slide of the deck (from June 2012) clearly states that these are preliminary results. The title paraphrases the conclusion to every other research study ever: “We’re on the right track, but much remains to be done.” This was an experiment in courier detection and a work in progress, and yet the two publications not only pretend that it was a deployed system, but also imply that the algorithm was used to generate a kill list for drone strokes. You can’t prove a negative of course, but there’s zero evidence here to substantiate the story.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2016/feb/18/has-a-rampaging-ai-algorithm-really-killed-thousands-in-pakistan

    This seems to be a misreading of Ars Technica’s meticulous analysis. Especially since it seems to assume that the US military would announce the use of a secret program if it was to be used in the field. TLS has done some good pieces on science in the past, but doesn’t seem to be the best choice for an article considering a situation where the facts are being intentionally witheld from the public. It seems safe to assume that the algorithms revealed by The Intercept have since been; developed further, and likely integrated into active operations, in these last four years.

    Killing civilians is forbidden by the Geneva Convention, to which the United States is a signatory. Many facts about the SKYNET program remain unknown, however. For instance, is SKYNET a closed loop system, or do analysts review each mobile phone user’s profile before condemning them to death based on metadata? Are efforts made to capture these suspected “terrorists” and put them on trial? How can the US government be sure it is not killing innocent people, given the apparent flaws in the machine learning algorithm on which that kill list is based?…

    The leaked NSA slide decks offer strong evidence that thousands of innocent people are being labelled as terrorists; what happens after that, we don’t know. We don’t have the full picture, nor is the NSA likely to fill in the gaps for us. (We repeatedly sought comment from the NSA for this story, but at the time of publishing it had not responded.)

    http://arstechnica.co.uk/security/2016/02/the-nsas-skynet-program-may-be-killing-thousands-of-innocent-people/

  6. vto 6
    19 February 2016 at 10:35 am

    Sheesh, another “aftershock” just rattled our place again……..

    I do wonder if the recent quake is not just an aftershock and part of the same sequence, but if it is in fact a new sequence just started up

    Whatever it is there seem to be more and larger “aftershocks” with this one

    we sit nervously
    blutacking the fragile
    strapping the tv
    preparing the emergency kit
    cleaning the running shoes

    ffs

    • Sabine 6.1
      19 February 2016 at 10:48 am

      oh mate, there is not much that we can say other then stay safe.

      • vto 6.1.1
        19 February 2016 at 11:01 am

        Thanks Sabine, one thing is that the city is in fact very safe now (relatively), with more stronger buildings and very few weak risky buildings. Plus everybody is very conscious of what is above them and what to do when a whopper hits.

        The issue is the mental turmoil and uncertainty that has sprung back

  7. AmaKiwi 7
    19 February 2016 at 10:45 am

    Funniest newspaper headline of the day (The Guardian):

    Donald Trump calls Pope Francis ‘disgraceful’ for questioning his faith

    • AmaKiwi 7.1
      19 February 2016 at 10:50 am

      Trump adds another joke:

      “No leader, especially a religious leader, should have the right to question another man’s religion or faith.” . . . unless of course that faith is Islam, right Donald?

  8. ianmac 8
    19 February 2016 at 12:08 pm

    Anyone read this from Werewolf? Thanks Max Rashbrooke.
    “The Great Financial Crisis Still To Come

    An interview with Financial Times columnist John Kay ”

    “……The answer, in Kay’s world, is to focus not on writing more complex rules but on reforming the structure of institutions and the incentives of people working in them. He is particularly hot on the idea sometimes crudely described as ‘breaking up the banks’: moving back to a world with smaller, more specialised institutions, a world in which retail banking, the business of taking deposits from ordinary folk, is separated from high-risk investment banking. Banks should focus on one of their four core purposes and be rewarded “in reference to” that purpose.”….

    Seems to mock the Key world of money trading?
    http://werewolf.co.nz/2016/02/the-great-financial-crisis-still-to-come/

    • Pasupial 9.1
      19 February 2016 at 12:55 pm

      Sabine

      From your link:

      Chief executive Carole Heatly’s response to a Labour Party information request says the “quick hits” include $863,000 from personnel and $435,000 from clinical supplies.

      Yesterday had a followup article to that:

      Commissioner Kathy Grant spoke to the Otago Daily Times yesterday after appearing before Parliament’s health select committee, where she told MPs the 2015-16 forecast deficit was $35.9 million… Mrs Grant appeared alongside chief executive Carole Heatly for the board’s annual review.

      Eager to raise local health concerns, Dunedin’s Labour MPs Clare Curran and David Clark both subbed on to the health select committee for the board’s appearance. Both were disappointed with Mrs Grant and Ms Heatly’s responses.

      Dr Clark called the appearance ‘‘farcical”. He had asked about the Dunedin Hospital redevelopment project and for detail of the cost-cutting initiatives, and answers had not been forthcoming, he said.

      Ms Curran was not satisfied with ‘‘vague” responses on a range of topics, including questions about the outcry over hospital food and meals on wheels. The lack of information was frustrating for the public, as well as for MPs, Ms Curran said.

      ‘‘I was not left reassured that there was a plan in place to deal with the deficit and to provide adequate health services in the region.”

      http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/373526/sdhb-forecasting-ugly-359m-deficit

      Good to see our the Labour electorate MPs doing their jobs. The Compass outsourcing isn’t just affecting the meals on wheels program (with many cancellations). The staff food has apparently taken a turn for the repulsive according to a nurse who is expected to eat that slop (and wash their own uniform now that scrubs have been replaced to put the laundry costs onto staff – this has been going on for a while now, but has always struck me as a great way to spread all hospital bound microbes to the larger population).

      But they seem to be able to find money for the commissioner and her deputy’s daily remuneration. Also an ever increasing number of consultants brought in to replace the democratically elected health board:

      A London-based consulting firm hired to run patient feedback sessions will help the Southern District Health Board to find its ‘‘vision, values, and behaviour”, chief executive Carole Heatly says…

      The sessions were part of a ‘‘major change programme” to set the agenda for the region’s healthcare for the next five years.

      A big focus was improving staff morale.

      http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/373524/uk-firm-help-sdhb-find-itself

      By; “staff morale”, I think they mean “compliance”, because they sure aren’t doing much for the morale!

      An Australasian consulting firm has been awarded a major planning contract for the Dunedin Hospital redevelopment. The Sapere Research Group will help the politically appointed Southern Partnership Group to develop the “business case” for the Government to consider…

      The same firm – Sapere – has written a long-awaited report on the future of health services in the Wakatipu, which the ministry refuses to release.The report looks at the possibility of removing Lakes District Hospital from direct control of the health board, and into a community health trust.

      The Otago Daily Times has been seeking the report since July…

      Asked why the report was taking so long, a spokeswoman said “a number of factors have affected the timeframes, including changes to stakeholders, such as the change to Southern DHB governance arrangements”.

      http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/373398/oz-consulting-firm-do-hospital-planning

      • weka 9.1.1
        19 February 2016 at 1:13 pm

        yep and the govt is trying to extend the term of the Commisioner running the SDHB, so we don’t get to vote in the local body elections this year.

      • Don't worry. Be happy 9.1.2
        19 February 2016 at 8:14 pm

        Always remember when young Carole Heatley is on stage….she gets half a million dollars a year.

  10. Rosie 10
    19 February 2016 at 12:24 pm

    Real life stories from the National government fuckwittery policy zone. Part 43, the 90 Day Act.

    A friend, an older woman, who lives with depression and severe anxiety is a WINZ client. She once lived a hard working but stable life as a farmers wife and raised a large family. Relationships changed and she moved to the city on her own, taking with her the proceeds of the sale of the family home.

    She got on ok for a few years, struggling, but keeping her head above water with a part time job, until the shop she worked in closed down.

    WINZ refuse to pay an accommodation allowance as she has some savings left from the house sale, but over half of it has gone on accommodation. She can no longer afford to keep up with increasing market rates and the state of housing as landlords over look maintenance issues. She has turned down 2 offers of council housing due to the unsuitability of the units, both ground floor flats with boarded up windows due to the level of crime in the area,and mouldy and dark. After a spell in hospital last winter with pneumonia she is reluctant to live in cold damp houses with no source of affordable heating.
    There is a light on the horizon however, her last and final offer is a 7th floor unit in a refurbished building. Some good news.

    But this morning she got fired from her new part time job after being there only three week. The reason? The boss, former hedge fund manager who had to get a retail job in the high fashion business after the GFC, says she is not getting up to speed fast enough on the POS system. This is despite the fact that my friend is an excellent saleswomen, is a natural with dealing people, and very affable in the retail environment. She does all this with great effort, courage and dignity given the challenges of her mental health.

    So, previously, before the 90 day act was passed she would have been given a chance, shown some patience and given extra tuition for one small aspect of her job she was having a little difficulty with. That would have been the reasonable and correct process. In a bit of time she would have mastered the POS system and carried on happily in her work.

    But instead, her already fragile self esteem and confidence has been shattered, she has now lost her little bit of independence and income and is off to WINZ to talk to them about the job loss.

    Now WINZ will have to cover her lost income, and my friend is left in a vulnerable position. She really needed that job but it was taken away without a thought for the consequences thanks to the 90 Day Act.

    How fucked up is that?

    I urge you, Mr Little, not to tinker with the 90 Day Act, like you told the business audience in Upper Hutt last year, you would do, but scrap it altogether if you get into power in a coalition government in 2017. You really need to stop and think about the damage this Act does to workers.

    • AmaKiwi 10.1
      19 February 2016 at 12:33 pm

      Rosie, I don’t think Little and his caucus can see the forest through the trees. “The system” requires so much more than some fine tuning. It needs to be disemboweled. We need to begin again with a system which serves both individuals and the wider community.

      • Rosie 10.1.1
        19 February 2016 at 1:27 pm

        I agree Amakiwi. If you look at a case like my friend’s, and many, far too many others, you see it’s more than one policy, it’s systematic, beyond housing and employment. It’s just that the 90 day act was the last straw in her case – such totally avoidable pain.

      • Draco T Bastard 10.1.2
        19 February 2016 at 2:28 pm

        +1

    • weka 10.2
      19 February 2016 at 1:21 pm

      That rule that means people have to spend the money from the sale of a house (or any other lump sum they receive, including ACC payments, inheritance, not sure about reduncancy money) is one of the hidden cruelties in the system. The system tries to treat everyone as short term dependents on the state who will soon be back in full time, decently paid work (eg you get a years grace to use the money before it affects entitlements*), as if the world still works like it did in the 1970s. But anyone who is dependent in the longer term gets asset stripped. For some that’s the decent into poverty that they can’t get out of again if they are unable to return to full time work with a decent wage rate. This is why Labour’s thing of it’s all about the jobs makes me nervous. Even with a decent minimum wage and enough jobs to go around there are still going to be people who get screwed by the system.

      *btw Rosie, did she get that years grace? i.e. WINZ should have paid AS if she were intending to buy a new house.

      • Rosie 10.2.1
        19 February 2016 at 1:48 pm

        Yes, she did get that years grace. The difficult thing was though that she was too preoccupied coming with to terms with the breakup of her marriage, the shock of leaving a life of isolation on the farm and adjusting to city life, and keeping up with the job she was doing at the time, to look for a place in that first year. Towards the end of the year she started looking at units and apartments for sale, but by that time the store she was working in had closed down, and being in employment was a condition of the home loan.

        Another condition of the home loan was that she needed to purchase a place that was over 50 square metres and all the suitable ones she found that she could afford were under 50 square metres.

        So yes, you’re right, the assets have been stripped and she is sliding further and further back. She’s now in an accommodation centre for homeless women. We are “lucky” that we do have that safety net for women in this city. It is at least a goof facility and a safe place. The lodge opened up a couple of years ago in response to the growing problem of women finding themselves homeless.

        I haven’t looked into Labour’s Future of Work report yet. I’m not sure if it covers meeting needs for people who can’t actually work full time, or not at all. I really do hope that any introduction of new employment policy, should we have a new government in 2017, that they would tie it in closely with policy changes at MSD, to better support people, genuinely help improve their well being, and prevent them from sliding into poverty.

        • Craig H 10.2.1.1
          19 February 2016 at 10:13 pm

          The report is not finished, but work is being done on Basic Income, which is my personal preference for avoiding this sort of nonsense.

      • Draco T Bastard 10.2.2
        19 February 2016 at 2:31 pm

        But anyone who is dependent in the longer term gets asset stripped. For some that’s the decent into poverty that they can’t get out of again if they are unable to return to full time work with a decent wage rate.

        When you look at the outcomes it becomes obvious that the system is designed to impoverish the unfortunate and using them to then enrich the already rich.

  11. AmaKiwi 11
    19 February 2016 at 12:25 pm

    I was just checking out the latest Sanders versus Clinton polls.

    The good news: Sanders has an excellent chance of defeating any of the Republican challengers. Hillary loses to them.

    The bad news: On present polling, Clinton is likely to beat the pants off Sanders in almost all the Democratic primaries.

    My conclusion: Sanders can win enough independent and soft Republicans to win the presidency whereas Clinton would lose because she is seen as just one more run of the mill Democrat. But Clinton is more likely to be the Democrat’s candidate.

    May you live in interesting times.

  12. Puckish Rogue 12
    19 February 2016 at 1:39 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/77065181/australia-opens-doors-to-citizenship-for-kiwis-following-breakthrough-agreement

    Now this is something I’m sure even the most rabid of Key haters will (no doubt through gritted teeth) admit is a good thing

    • James 12.1
      19 February 2016 at 1:41 pm

      I dunno PR – John Key could pull a baby out of a burning car and a lot of the commenters on here would complain just because it was him.

      • Puckish Rogue 12.1.1
        19 February 2016 at 1:48 pm

        I’m curious to see how long it’ll take before someone complains about why it took so long for Key to do this

        • reason 12.1.1.1
          19 February 2016 at 5:13 pm

          http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2016/02/a-deal-only-for-rich.html

          “basicly, Australia will only welcome you if you’re rich and male. If you’re poor, a woman, took time out of the workforce to raise a family, or if you moved to Australia as a child and haven’t entered the workforce yet, you’re shit out of luck, there’s no possibility of citizenship or residency for you, and you’re under permanent threat of deportation.”

          “Australia gets to keep a captive workforce of kiwi peons with no rights. Everyone’s a winner! Except kiwis in Australia who needed our government to actually stick up for them.”

          If John Key and the nats are selling you a car look under the hood ………… it’s probably missing an engine ……………

          • Craig H 12.1.1.1.1
            19 February 2016 at 10:18 pm

            Supposedly there will be some discretion for cases where the income threshold is not met because of things like childcare at home. As always, the devil is in the detail…

      • McFlock 12.1.2
        19 February 2016 at 2:57 pm

        a few others would give him credit where it’s due, but only after double-checking that he wasn’t the one who set the car on fire.

        But an amnesty for expats who don’t actually need much assistance is something, I guess.

        • Puckish Rogue 12.1.2.1
          19 February 2016 at 3:36 pm

          Nice, I was thinking of going with the back-handed compliment but I went with the total negativity instead

          🙂

          • McFlock 12.1.2.1.1
            19 February 2016 at 5:22 pm

            Given the NZ infant mortality rates over the last 5 years or so, saving babies was probably a poorly-chosen analogy, is all.

            Anyway, an expat couple with a young kid and one lower wage earner wouldn’t be affected at all. It’s a nice to have, but I know people who will simply say “good for them, we still get told to fuck off by centrelink”.

      • Expat 12.1.3
        19 February 2016 at 3:05 pm

        James

        Key could pull a baby out of a burning car, but far more likely to pull on a ponytail I would suggest.

      • pat 12.1.4
        19 February 2016 at 8:10 pm

        you may well be correct….but it is an opprobrium earned and deserved

    • alwyn 12.2
      19 February 2016 at 2:24 pm

      That is really good news. A lot of the New Zealanders who have moved to Australia in the years since 2001 never realised that there was no path to citizenship. They were stuck with a visa that never allowed then to get the right to do so.
      Why our Government at the time never told us about it was a disgrace. They couldn’t have done anything about the Australian action but they didn’t have to keep emigrants from here in the dark.
      At least now, even if it doesn’t apply to people going from today, there is a reasonable chance they will understand the restriction. They can still go but they shouldn’t be ignorant of the problem they may end up with.
      Why anyone would want to move there permanently is another question.
      Australians really do despise Kiwis. You will be treated like a lower order of life.

      • Pasupial 12.2.1
        19 February 2016 at 2:42 pm

        Alwyn

        There has been a path to citizenship for NZ immigrants to Australia, but it hasn’t been an easy one. I have whanau over there who have done just that, though it was a long frustrating process. Probably helped that they had an advanced degree in their field and were engaged in a research program (though I remember them complaining at one point that they would have had better luck fitting the immigration requirements if they’d been a hairdresser).

        As for why someone might want to go to Australia, rather than remain in Aotearoa? Work. Well-funded and equipped research is a rarity in this country. Less political interference in publishing of scientific results too.

        research has estimated that fewer than 10 per cent of New Zealand arrivals between 2006 and 2012 were granted permanent residency.

        So the real effect of this new immigration policy is to increase residency to around 25% from about 10%, but only for those who have the cash. Which is not nothing, but doesn’t do anything for those Kiwis in the tropical gulags, or kids whose parents aren’t professionals.

        • Expat 12.2.1.1
          19 February 2016 at 3:17 pm

          Pasupial

          Most Kiwi’s I know don’t even want Australian citizenship, they’re happy to work and play here till they get board, and then return “Home” when it suits them, or when the economy (in NZ) has picked up sufficiently to return to a reasonable income and standard of living.
          Let’s not forget that in 2011, a record number of Kiwi’s left NZ than any time before that, they didn’t leave for Au to become citizens, they simply wanted a reasonably paid job.

        • alwyn 12.2.1.2
          19 February 2016 at 4:52 pm

          @Pasupial.
          “There has been a path to citizenship for NZ immigrants to Australia”
          Yes, but it doesn’t come from moving there with the “special” visa. It basically requires that you start with qualifications like those of someone from any other country, and most New Zealander’s who go there aren’t like that.
          People may go there planning to work for a few years and then come back. That takes quite a lot of determination if while there you have a family and kids who have never known New Zealand and have become little Hawthorn supporters in the AFL.

          • RedLogix 12.2.1.2.1
            19 February 2016 at 5:19 pm

            Been here three years in Ballarat Victoria. Perfectly friendly decent town. No-one has treated us like a lower order of life; quite the contrary we’re almost more at home here than we ever were back in NZ. So I guess this is something where everyone’s mileage will vary.

            Yes there have been some pathways to citizenship. Recently the door was opened if you had been working for a regional employer more than two years, there was the opportunity to apply in the general immigration category with no age or skills requirements. We have been considering taking this up.

            But credit where it is due, this new arrangement looks a lot cleaner and less troublesome. Dual citizenship is something I think we will likely take up. I’ve reached the point where I want to keep our options open.

            Turnbull certainly seems to have taken a far more constructive approach than his predecessors. And credit to Key (and the Labour Party for putting some heat on) for making the case.

            • RedLogix 12.2.1.2.1.1
              19 February 2016 at 11:23 pm

              Well in fact I made that comment above in haste. Now I repent at leisure.

              Turns out its a pretty pissy one-off ‘amnesty’ that only applies to people already living here for five years or more. Been here four years and 11 months as of this year and you forever miss out.

              Only about 100,000 of the 400,00 kiwis in Aus might qualify. Still Key got the headline so the MSM can be proud of a job well done today.

              • alwyn …
                20 February 2016 at 11:05 am

                Are you sure it doesn’t apply to you?
                The Stuff article linked to above says
                “However, the amnesty is retrospective and will not apply to new arrivals – meaning Kiwis arriving as of today will not benefit from the breakthrough agreement”.
                That seems to read that it will apply to you when you reach five years. The exclusion would appear to be that it won’t apply to people who arrive after the date it was announced, not those who were there already.
                The stuff in the paper is all I know about it of course. My reading, or the story itself could be wrong

      • Expat 12.2.2
        19 February 2016 at 2:46 pm

        Alwyn

        “Australians really do despise Kiwis. You will be treated like a lower order of life.”

        Your full of shit, how long have you actually spent in that country to make a comment like that, all your doing is is exposing your own total ignorance.

        Kiwi’s are well respected in Aus, they generally fit into their society easily, I’m self employed in the largest city in Aus, and most of my clients are far more honest and generous than the Kiwi counter parts.

        Keep spewing the MSM’s bullshit, your the only who believes it.

        You’re a fuckwit.

        • alwyn 12.2.2.1
          19 February 2016 at 4:43 pm

          I lived in Australia, based in Melbourne, for 6 years. I travelled all over the country while I was there. Every state and territory. The biggest town not visited was probably Mt Isa.
          Now what is that about being totally ignorant? What the hell do you know?
          How long have you lived there you dumb prick?
          Do you still enjoy the sheep jokes?

          You’re a fuckwit.

          ps. I see you now talk like a member of the Australian Cricket team. You’ve learnt something.

          • BM 12.2.2.1.1
            19 February 2016 at 5:31 pm

            How long ago was that alwyn?

          • reason 12.2.2.1.2
            19 February 2016 at 5:39 pm

            Like Expat I’ve lived and worked around Australia and like him I found the Aussies pretty good and friendly ……..

            I do find it quite easy to believe that they did not like alwyn though ……… and in the Aussie speak they call people like him a ‘dick head’

            alwyn should not confuse accurate aussie assessments of his “lower order of life” character with anti-kiwi sentiment ……….

            It was you they “despised” alwyn …………… not kiwis.

            Having said that Australia is a big sun-cunt burnt-tree ……. and they like a joke.

            Fat Pizza vs Housos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AK0TtCsjAQ

            • Expat 12.2.2.1.2.1
              19 February 2016 at 7:48 pm

              Reason

              It’s also the lucky country, that’s why so many want to settle here.

            • alwyn 12.2.2.1.2.2
              20 February 2016 at 10:40 am

              A round of applause for “reason”
              That is like an entry in an illustrated dictionary. He (or she) not only tells us what the word means but demonstrates perfectly how they behave.
              That is a truly magnificent caricature of what a dickhead is like.
              At least I think it is a caricature. You can’t possibly be as bad as that in real life can you?

          • Expat 12.2.2.1.3
            19 February 2016 at 7:37 pm

            Alwyn

            Which era did you live in Au? there hasn’t been a sheep joke since John Clark (Fred Dagg) left NZ (25 years ago) , now he does satire for the ABC on politics.

            Iv’e lived here for 15 years in two stints (been to every state except WA), so I would suggest you are the same arrogant person you appear to be now, as you were then, resulting in the very same responses from other people as you receive now.

            Lets put the whole Au migrant thing into perspective, it was a rissole right wing Govt in Au that introduced the citizenship issues, John Howard, and then Abbott (another fucked up right winger) added to the problem by changing the law from 3 years jail time to 1 before you get deported and made it more difficult to get citizenship.

            I live here right now, that gives a lot more relativity to this argument than your 30 years ago, or more experience where you just pissed every one off.

            I was in NZ only 2 weeks ago for a holiday, and found all the remarks made on this site regarding the MSM and the Govt absolutely true, every single one of them, at least the Ausies know a bad political policy when it’s being thrust upon them, which is more than I can say for you and your cohorts.

            PS, just another fuckup in NZ regarding the viewing rights for the international cricket and all other sports inside NZ (sold the TV rights to Sky), no one in Aus or NZ gets to see the the sports unless you’ve got foxtell (paid TV), in Au, all international games in sports are televised free to air if played here, it’s a much larger viewing audience.

            The herald reported earlier this year the number of immigrants that have arrived (in one year) and gave a figure of 80k, but continued on to say the net gain was only 40k, I’ll let you work that one out for yourself.

            • alwyn 12.2.2.1.3.1
              20 February 2016 at 10:54 am

              That sounds a little more reasoned than you first response to me.
              I can’t really have pissed everyone off you know. I was headhunted to move there and then again to move to another Australian Company.
              I stopped working there about 20 years ago, and then came back to New Zealand about 18 months after that.
              However I still visit there for an average of 6 weeks per year. nowadays entirely on holiday, but previously for a mixture of holiday and consulting.
              I continued to find that at a meeting there would be derogatory comments made about the fact that there were New Zealanders in the audience if that fact was known to the speaker.
              Of course a lot of Australians are friendly. I still have a lot of friends there. However there are an awful lot who still feel the need to make demeaning remarks about NZ. Mostly they do it from a position of total ignorance which makes them even more annoying.

  13. James 13
    19 February 2016 at 1:40 pm

    Great News for a lot of the Kiwi’s who want to be come Aussie citizens:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/77065181/australia-opens-doors-to-citizenship-for-kiwis-following-breakthrough-agreement

    This will make a lot of voting Kiwis over in Aust very happy indeed.

    • Puckish Rogue 13.1
      19 February 2016 at 1:46 pm

      Posting the same thing so close together will lead some on here to think it was co-ordinated…

      • Pasupial 13.1.1
        19 February 2016 at 2:13 pm

        PR

        I read it over on the ODT (which seems to be a reprint from the NZH by Audrey Young):

        If they earned A$53,000 over five consecutive years ($57,000) between 2001 and today, they will eventually be able to apply for permanent residence and eventually apply for citizenship.

        It is estimated that the policy will allow up to 70,000 of the 300,000 New Zealanders who have arrived since 2001 to become Australians with full rights of citizenship.

        http://www.odt.co.nz/news/politics/373750/australia-announces-easier-citizenship-path-kiwis

        Lots of “eventually”s in that paragraph. Also it only addresses the richest quarter of Kiwis over in Australia.

        • Puckish Rogue 13.1.1.1
          19 February 2016 at 3:10 pm

          On the plus side it’ll finally allow Russel Crowe to become an aussie at last

        • Sacha 13.1.1.2
          19 February 2016 at 3:32 pm

          What a surprise that the rationing system two finance guys agreed on is based on income. Good on them for doing something, however.

  14. Rosie 14
    19 February 2016 at 2:53 pm

    The PM will release “a text” from Rachel Glucina regarding ponytailgate:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/77076492/john-key-to-release-ponytail-saga-text-message-from-gossip-columnist

    “a text”. Why one? What’s that all about?

  15. Tc 15
    19 February 2016 at 4:12 pm

    I see the MP voted to sell off state houses wibbling that its what iwi wanted.

    You know what you get with the MP, consistent selling out of their own people to appease elite iwi and fall in behind this shonky govt.

  16. ianmac 16
    19 February 2016 at 4:22 pm

    Tricky stuff on TPPA as explained by Jeremy Malcolm.
    “…provided for under paragraph 1, a Party may limit application of this paragraph to the cases…”
    changed between November and the January publication to:
    “…or under paragraph 1, a Party may limit application of this subparagraph to the cases in which…”

    Not much difference eh? Until you read the drastic effect on our justice system.
    How come and why was it changed?

    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/02/sneaky-change-tpp-drastically-extends-criminal-penalties

  17. te reo putake 17
    19 February 2016 at 7:11 pm

    Talleys have just been caned again in the employment court. Not once, but twice. Post with details tomorrow, but tonight a couple of AFFCO workers are feeling very happy indeed.

    • Macro 17.1
      19 February 2016 at 8:00 pm

      Good to hear!
      $144,000 may be a pittance to Talleys but it is a significant boost to the MWU.
      No doubt we will hear more from these bad employers.

  18. stigie 18
    19 February 2016 at 8:56 pm

    Nats up 1.5 to 48.5% Labour down to 27%. Crikey !!

      • James 18.1.1
        19 February 2016 at 9:17 pm

        Must be one of those rogue polls huh.

        Wouldnt be surprised to see labour under 25 % by June.

        • Paul 18.1.1.1
          19 February 2016 at 9:17 pm

          Have you seen Adam Curtis’s ‘Century of Self’?
          You should.
          “This series is about how those in power have used Freud’s theories to try and control the dangerous crowd in an age of mass democracy.” – Adam Curtis

          Then you would understand why a government representing the interests of the !% gets so much support?

          This book also will help you
          Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America’s Class War

          http://www.amazon.com/Deer-Hunting-Jesus-Dispatches-Americas/dp/0307339378

          • Paul 18.1.1.1.1
            19 February 2016 at 9:28 pm

            ‘The story of the relationship between Sigmund Freud and his American nephew, Edward Bernays. Bernays invented the public relations profession in the 1920s and was the first person to take Freud’s ideas to manipulate the masses. He showed American corporations how they could make people want things they didn’t need by systematically linking mass-produced goods to their unconscious desires.
            His most notorious coup was breaking the taboo on women smoking by persuading them that cigarettes were a symbol of independence and freedom. But Bernays was convinced that this was more than just a way of selling consumer goods. It was a new political idea of how to control the masses. By satisfying the inner irrational desires that his uncle had identified, people could be made happy and thus docile.
            It was the start of the all-consuming self which has come to dominate today’s world. ‘

            • Incognito 18.1.1.1.1.1
              19 February 2016 at 10:57 pm

              cigarettes were a symbol of independence and freedom.

              Ironically, Freud was a heavy smoker who got oral cancer and was in denial about it and kept smoking for 16 years till the day he committed (assisted) suicide.

              Smoking is all about dependence and addiction, which is quite the opposite of the image that Bernays was trying to manufacture.

      • sabine 18.1.2
        19 February 2016 at 9:28 pm

        again, not mentioned in this poll is who was polled i.e no age group, no gender, voters vs non voters etc e tc etc .
        And with that this poll is virtually meaning less.

        However, i also like to point out that there are 7% (up 0.5%) that did not voice an opinion. And fwiw, Labour/Green did not change, so I am wondering if that 0.5 % of suddenly undecided is shavings from National. I also like how they don’t include the possibility of NZFirst as a Coaliton Partern, which would bring the Coalition to 48.5%. Oh and Maori Party loosing support. I would wonder who they will vote for? Ahhh….Glass balls would be a good investment, and coffee grinds on the bottom of a saucer.

        I will leave you with the intro to the poll. 🙂

        Quote: “During February support for Nationals was up 1.5% to 48.5% well ahead of a potential Labour/Greens alliance 41.5% (unchanged) in the second Roy Morgan New Zealand Poll for 2016. If a New Zealand Election were held now the latest NZ Roy Morgan Poll shows National would be re-elected comfortably.

        Support for the National partners showed a sharp fall in support for the Maori Party, down 2% to 1%, Act NZ was 0.5% (unchanged) and United Future was 0% (unchanged).

        Of the three Parliamentary Opposition parties – Labour’s support is now at 27% (down 0.5%), Greens 14.5% (up 0.5%), NZ First is 6% (down 0.5%). Of the parties outside Parliament the Conservative Party of NZ is 1% (unchanged), the Internet-Mana Party alliance is at 0.5% (up 0.5%) and support for Independent/ Others is 1% (up 0.5%).

        The NZ Roy Morgan Government Confidence Rating is 128pts (down 3.5pts) in February. A majority of NZ electors 56.5% (down 3%) say NZ is ‘heading in the right direction’ compared to 28.5% (up 0.5%) that say NZ is ‘heading in the wrong direction’.

        • Ben 18.1.2.1
          19 February 2016 at 10:22 pm

          Too funny Sabine. Highly amusing that you are trying to pick apart what was once the Left’s favourite poll. Who/what/how the poll was taken, as long it was undertaken using the same methodology as the last RM poll then it is relevant.

          27%. Kind of rolls off the tounge. As I mentioned in a previous post, Little rolled the dice with his anti-TTPA stance as he was desparate to find a point of difference with National. Turns out all those protesters were rent-a-crowd after all, and in no way representative of the average Kiwi.

          Clock is ticking. Is Robertson still dieting?

          • Colonial Viper 18.1.2.1.1
            19 February 2016 at 10:45 pm

            Turns out all those protesters where rent-a-crowd after all, and in no way representative of the average Kiwi.

            LOL you really are cute when you lie through your teeth.

            27%. Kind of rolls off the tounge. As I mentioned in a previous post, Little rolled the dice with his anti-TTPA stance as he was desparate to find a point of difference with National.

            Little’s fake anti-TPP stance failed to register with voters as sincere and credible?

            You don’t say.

            Come on dude, you can do better than this.

        • Foreign waka 18.1.2.2
          19 February 2016 at 10:40 pm

          During February support for national was up….. the Roy Morgan Poll was done at the doors of Parliament as the politicians came back from their holiday. Fresh and still in good spirits giving cheery answers … yep we are on the right track, the hallway leads directly to my office if I remember correctly….

  19. Paul 19
    19 February 2016 at 9:31 pm

    A majority of NZ electors 56.5% (down 3%) say NZ is ‘heading in the right direction’

    They are obviously oblivious to what is going on in New Zealand and the world then.
    They are part of ‘the all-consuming self which has come to dominate today’s world. ‘

    • sabine 19.1
      19 February 2016 at 9:42 pm

      end of the holiday period, long weekends and valentines. and despite that the positive spin is dropping.

      And again, who was asked. 🙂

      I would like to have a breakdown of the people that answered the polls, to really get a feel as to what is happening.

  20. greywarshark 20
    19 February 2016 at 10:22 pm

    The Atlantic has good reading in its longform articles.

    This piece on the USA political scene now. And it posits that despite appearances at the top with Republicans in the Senate and seemingly everywhere, it seems that the usa is moving left.
    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/why-america-is-moving-left/419112/

    And how should Saudi Arabia be described, is it a country or a large family business perhaps?
    http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/02/saudi-arabia-collapse/463212/

  22. marty mars 22
    19 February 2016 at 10:43 pm

    I would kick these guys out asap. We don’t want or need them – they endangered lives of others – they have few, if any, redeaming features imo

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/77076327/french-tourists-who-peed-out-car-window-given-police-warnings

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