Do you not think perhaps we might have the (failed) system we do because everyone is so negative about new approaches?
The author has spent time in the system, she’s observed and identified what she thought were many of the problems with our penal and justice system and she’s offered a possible solution. Her views were expressed in the timing & context of a new Goverment claiming a desire to reform the penal system.
You immediately leap to knock it down without even trying to critique it.
Though this isn’t a new approach, many kiwis believe prisoners are already helped into work and are provided with a support network during time in prison. The fact that outside organisations are left to do this work should be telling us something.
I have no doubt this org does great work, but there is no mention that prison might not be the best place to start a rehabilitation program. Women are currently housed in men’s prisons because the system is overloaded and they are separated from their families too, and those are just a couple of issues that spring to mind…
Let’s catch Mike Hosking out in a lazy lie, shall we?
Right wing lie: “…. As a kid who grew up in the 1970s and had holidays (note the plural – Sanc) stalled because of the pre-determined Cook Strait ferry action, it was part of the social landscape of my formative years…”
Now some facts:
According to the NZ History website:
“…Between 1986 to 1991 only 378 out of 21,654 sailings were cancelled because of industrial action. ..”
How many of those 76 sailings were during a holiday period? Is the more imporatant percentage. For strike action to be effective it generally has to be disruptive.
“Several times between 1971 and 1983 the government launched ‘Operation Pluto’, using state domestic airline and air force planes to fly passengers and cars between Wellington and Blenheim during prolonged industrial disputes.”
Some kid had his holiday in the ’70s disrupted and he turns out to have the mindset/outlook of Hosking in 2018. Now there’s scope for some deep psychological research.
They did have a habit of timing their strikes for holiday periods. Those cancelled sailings might seem few but IIRC they were often at the most inconvenient times for people. They weren’t very popular.
As with today’s employers mindset, stall, stall, stall, delay, deflect and lie until the employee’s and their representatives have no other option but to take action. And quite often the employers got very bolshy right about holiday time to inflict the worst impact on the general public so as to shine negatively on workers (bit like the holidaying folks themselves) standing up for their rights.
While i don’t want to be seen to be defending Hosking, how does this catch him out in a lie? He said “as a kid who grew up in the 1970s” so your figures starting in 1986, when he was 21, are meaningless.
I’m only a couple of years younger and i can remember that ferry strikes were a regular thing at holiday times. The site you link to states:
Either way, industrial relations between management and unions were not always good, especially in the 1970s. … Several times between 1971 and 1983 the government launched ‘Operation Pluto’, using state domestic airline and air force planes to fly passengers and cars between Wellington and Blenheim during prolonged industrial disputes.
That really is a bullshit site, saying that the 70s were worst but then quoting figures for the 80s only.
Re Mike Hoskings missing out on holidays in the 70’s……………cry me a river………boo hoo not. He needs to go and visit families living in cars or mouldy houses and then he would have some genuine grievance (on their behalf) and of course one of the strands in the rope that has led us to our current situation re housing and poverty is the barbaric labour relations laws and the fact that we pay such a useless waste of space (Hoskings) so much money while others get so little.
“In 1923, jockey Frank Hayes won a race at Belmont Park in New York despite being dead — he suffered a heart attack mid-race, but his body stayed in the saddle until his horse crossed the line for a 20–1 outsider victory.”
and that is just about as relevant as the facts you are quoting trying to catch Hosking out in a lie.
Leave Sanctuary alone.
He has realised he screwed up with his yarn and has returned to this site and made a most fulsome apology to both Hosking and the readers of this blog.
He has completely accepted that he was wrong.
Well, I’m sure he means to do it when he has a bit of time.
Or not.
The potential exists, but not the discipline to realise it.
The Korean government makes PPPs reasonably frequently. Private companies that don’t meet spec get restructured. If they’re lucky.
Consider the lax treatment of P testing fraudsters. These people made a lucrative business from pretending to expertise they did not possess. Other fraudsters face more substantial punishment.
A minor party could honestly say, “If we were the dominant party, we’d…” as it is, the smaller players can’t really claim much at all, other than to say they’d stay as true to their principles and claims as possible.
As possible.
That’s why I like The Greens.
Although there is some truth to that, we on the left are less tolerant of liars in general.
If Labour cannot make a credible show of trying to keep their promises, they won’t just lose the election, they’ll be out for three or more terms, till conspicuous liars retire.
What’s more, the Key Kleptocracy went much further in normalizing dishonesty in power than has been conventional in NZ.
There are promises that circumstances force politicians to break – and there is flagrant and unrepentant bullshit with no basis in reality – like everything the Gnats ever did.
1. The private sector has higher financing costs
2. The private sector seeks to extract profits from it
3. The number of people employed must be the same at the same rate
4. A government MoW can buy in far greater bulk and thus get far better economies of scale
Getting the private sector to do government services costs more and we get less. Privatisation was nothing more than a way to increase the bludging capability of the rich on the poor.
The problem with something like the railways was that, as a monopoly, well lets just say that they didn’t have a reputation for customer service or proper handling of good and that the MOW (and others) became dumping grounds and were used to hide true unemployment figures
Having said that the social costs may actually be greater than the monetary costs (thanks Labour) so as i said previously I wouldn’t mind seeing a limited return of the MOW, maybe to handle large scale works
The problem with something like the railways was that, as a monopoly, well lets just say that they didn’t have a reputation for customer service or proper handling of good and that the MOW (and others) became dumping grounds and were used to hide true unemployment figures
Which is just the BS that the privatisers told everyone.
I’m not saying that the system was perfect but the accusations were based solely upon anecdote. One person in the right place and the right job and suddenly everyone who works for the government is tarred as being scum in the MSM.
And a large part of the reason why I say that out telecommunications are ten years behind where they should be is because of the thousands of people made redundant from Telecom after the sale. Those thousands of people represent the work that hasn’t been done.
To get one installed would take a couple of days to a few weeks depending upon where you were and the work that needed to be done. To connect a phone required sending someone around to the exchange to connect it and sending someone out to the house to connect it there as well which would take a few days as the labour got organised. If you were somewhere which didn’t have a phone line at all (and there were still many such places) then it would take weeks as we organised running several kilometres of line.
Part of the problem here was that the MSM would ring up the PO and ask how long to get a phone connected. The PO would then call the local PO communications branch (The two were actually separate entities) and get the standard reply of one month to six weeks. This, of course, had a built in fudge factor due to the high labour intensity and the fact that shit happpens.
I also worked for Telecom in the 2000s where I learned that in some places it would take months or longer to get ADSL connected. This despite the fact that we started running fibre out to the cabinet in the 1980s. That latter bit got stopped when Telecom got sold.
So, after decades of experience in the Real World I can assure you that things have actually got worse since the sale of Telecom. We get less and it costs more.
No it’s not. Why would you even want to own a phone?
A few weeks to get a phone line installed whereas now you can get any electrician to do the job
There’s more to installing a phone than just the house wiring. You can’t get the electrician to run the cable from the exchange and if you don’t have that then it could take weeks, months or even not happen at all as rural farmers are now finding out.
Things have gotten better as now if you don’t want Telecom you can go elsewhere
?
And that choice cost you more without any added benefits.
“No it’s not. Why would you even want to own a phone?”
– Handy if the mobile network goes down plus for a lot of people of the last 30 odd years its been their main form of communication
“You can’t get the electrician to run the cable from the exchange and if you don’t have that then it could take weeks, months or even not happen at all as rural farmers are now finding out.”
– Unfortunately that’s, to me, of part of the deal in living rurally
“And that choice cost you more without any added benefits.”
– Personally speaking I pay less money for more services then i ever have
Handy if the mobile network goes down plus for a lot of people of the last 30 odd years its been their main form of communication
If the mobile network goes down then the phone still isn’t going to work even if you own it.
Unfortunately that’s, to me, of part of the deal in living rurally
But it wouldn’t be if telecommunications were still a state service.
Personally speaking I pay less money for more services then i ever have
I doubt that you’re doing a proper comparison or even have the slightest idea as to how privatisation has made things more expensive for you. Take that owning the phone that you’re so concerned about.
My present mobile phone is a couple of years old but it was actually released back in 2014. It’s updated to Android 7.1.1 but it’s never going to update Android 8. This means to say that it’s going to become a security threat to the entire network in the near future if it isn’t already one. To counter this threat a state phone service simply send me a new one in the mail but as I own it it means that I have to buy a new one. The phone is actually quite a good one and will last me several more years – years of being a security threat which is going to add more costs to maintaining the network and those added costs get placed on to you.
Then there’s the profit of course. Profit costs a huge amount in work that’s delayed or simply not done so that the bludging shareholders can have more for nothing.
And added competition costs more too. More bureaucracy to pay for, more network infrastructure that’s simply not needed and, of course, more bank interest and profits to pay for as well.
It all adds up and costs you far more than what you should be paying.
I appreciate the effort but you’ll never convince me that communism is the answer, unless the question is what is a form of government should we never try
I had several phones in under the old system – same day was the rule, the next day was the longest. And one of those was on Stewart Is. Telecom did not improve service in any way shape or form – the only reason it was the only successful privatization was technology developed elsewhere grew the market, and incompetent governments failed to break up their monopoly so they screwed consumers.
But business customers in particular wanted more sophisticated telephone services which were available internationally, and households were often frustrated by the time it took to get a telephone.
Toll prices came down by 60% between 1987 and 1992. After 1987 anyone in New Zealand could wire up, repair or sell telecommunications equipment, though Telecom New Zealand maintained firm control over access to the network.
But business customers in particular wanted more sophisticated telephone services which were available internationally, and households were often frustrated by the time it took to get a telephone.
Which is actually a load of bollocks.
To get those more sophisticated telephone services required newer exchanges. We were putting them in as fast as possible but doing takes time and money – both of which was in short supply. And by the 1980s most phones were installed in a short time. The cables an exchanges could handle it.
Toll prices came down by 60% between 1987 and 1992. After 1987 anyone in New Zealand could wire up, repair or sell telecommunications equipment, though Telecom New Zealand maintained firm control over access to the network.
I’m always surprised by people who declaim the benefits of the market then complain about the market operating as expected. This leads me to think that these morons don’t actually know what the pricing system is for.
The pricing system in the market is to restrict use of limited resources.
If there’s only 50 lines going between Auckland and Wellington then you don’t actually want 51 people making calls and you can’t tell people don’t make calls and so you make the price high it so that people only make calls if they really, really need to.
With the fibre roll out in the 1980s those sorts of restrictions declined and so toll prices dropped. Simple market action.
Yep, it was technology that dropped prices – not the commercialisation and privatisation of Telecom.
I also remember going round to one of those houses that the electrician wired up – and cutting them off and blacklisting them. The idiot electrician had run the phone wires with the electrical wires and there was 75 volts of induced power in the house wiring which was causing havoc in the exchange. Would be interesting to know how much that idiot ended up costing his customers before he got it right.
“to buy a phone”
You must be much younger than I am. When it was the New Zealand Post office that supplied the services you certainly weren’t allowed to connect your own phone to their lines. You had to use the phone they supplied. Mostly they were great big black clunkers.
It cost you more to rent a phone in a different colour.
Those were the days.
When I was first married and trying to get a phone in Wellington it took me about 5 months to get the phone connected. Even then I only got it after being screwed around for that long because I complained to the Minister about his departments stuff-ups.
Privatisation made the service much, much better.
When I was first married and trying to get a phone in Wellington it took me about 5 months to get the phone connected. Even then I only got it after being screwed around for that long because I complained to the Minister about his departments stuff-ups.
Probably didn’t have cables running past you place or they were already at capacity. In other words, you’re complaining about physical reality and the time it takes to physically run several kilometres of cable to your place.
“Oh, come on – the type 100 s weren’t that bad.”
They were just a dream for the future.
I was talking about 1968 when they were rotary dialling. The ones you illustrate were something out of Science Fiction.
It was even older than this one. This illustration is much smaller than the one I was supplied with. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:New_Zealand_Rotary_Telephone.jpg
Actually this link confirms my memory that it wasn’t until Telecom was started that you could use your own phone.
There were cables available and they weren’t at capacity.
The bloody Post Office kept losing track of the paperwork. The claimed, twice, that I hadn’t paid the deposit and that the time to get connected would have to restart from the date I proved that I really had paid them and I had a receipt. After the second case of this, when they told me it would now be a further 3 months, I wrote a letter of complaint to the Minister, and sent a copy to the Post Office Director General.
They would have got the letters on a Monday. I came home on Tuesday to find that the PO had turned up to install the phone and on Wednesday the phone went in. Then on the Thursday I received a letter from the Cabinet Minister saying he had instructed the Department to sort it out. I thought that really deserved a thank you and sent him one. From 3 months down to a couple of days.
I think Fibre’s even worse. I’ve been waiting since November for an install advertised as “in a couple of days”. Current promise is now sometime in July. Chorus – a screaming joke of a company only surviving through want of competition.
The article challenges narratives of the success of UK rail privatisation using accounting data from Network Rail and private train operating companies.
Large government subsidies channelled through Network Rail have radically changed the appearance of railway finances.
Lower track access charges levied by Network Rail have artificially inflated train operator profits, generating returns for the taxpayer and the illusion of financial self-sufficiency.
This accounting fix has bolstered claims that rail privatisation has been a financial success.
Abstract
This article accounts for the British experiment with rail privatisation and how it has worked out economically and politically. The focus is not simply on profitability and public subsidy, but on the appearances which accounting arrangements create. The article scrutinises the Network Rail subsidy regime, which enables train operators to achieve fictitious profitability without increased direct state support. This enables supporters of privatisation to claim train operators produce a net gain for the British taxpayer. The claim forms the heart of a trade narrative which is employed by the industry and their political backers to deflect criticism and stymy reform.
Railways was of course not a PPP – it was a government organisation. I suspect that the featherbedding has been overstated – certainly there were some fficienciess that were overdue, but many changes were only possible through changes in the external environment – possible more widely available and reliable telephone communications for example.
As given in Draco’s post above PPPs cost more and deliver less – and experience since 2009 when one of those was written has only emphasised that. Some PPPs are “dressed up” with lower visible costs but with the expense of long terms “maintenance” contracts that delibver ongoing p[rofits to the private company.
I was disappointed to hear that the current governmetj are using a PPP to build the new prison – the reason is however given in the 15 June Stuff article:
“During Question Time on Thursday, Associate Finance Minister David Clark said: “there is clear evidence around the Government’s prior experimentation with PPPs that they did not work. There are a number of perverse outcomes, and this Government has steered clear thus far of any such foolishness.”
When challenged on the Government’s decision to use a PPP for Waikeria, he said the decision was made because corrections – under the previous government – had already signed a $34 million PPP contract.”
If a PPP appears to make the government accounts look better, you can be fairly certain that the fault lies with the accounting system.
Exactly Draco, PPP’s a just an accountancy and corporate welfare web that delivers at least 30%+ higher a price than if the government does it themselves. Why would you use something that you know will cost 30% more, unless you are a Moran or on the take??????
“UK PFI debt now stands at over £300bn for projects with an original capital cost of £55bn”
“Conservatively estimated, the trusts appear to be paying a risk premium of about 30% of the total construction costs, just to get the hospitals built on time and to budget, a sum that considerably exceeds the evidence about past cost overruns.”
found that PPP “contracts are considerably more expensive than the cost of conventional procurement”, resulting in higher returns for the companies running the PPP’s compared to their industry peers.
While hard to compare because of the opaque nature of many contracts and large amounts of subcontracting out, it looked like the actual cost of capital of the PPP’s was 11% compared to Treasure borrowing of 4.5% i.e. 6.5% higher. This is supposed to represent the cost of risk transfer but in practice there was no risk transfer so it’s money for nothing.
“In conclusion, the road projects appear to be costing more than expected as reflected in net present costs that are higher than those identified by the Highways Agency (Haynes and Roden 1999), owing to rising traffic and contract changes. It is, however, impossible to know at this point whether or not VFM (value for money) has been or is indeed likely to be achieved because the expensive element of the service contract relates to maintenance that generally will not be required for many years.”
Overall, for both roads and hospitals they concluded there was no risk transfer and not value for money.
“The net result of all this is that while risk transfer is the central element in justifying VFM and thus PFI, our analysis shows that risk does not appear to have been transferred to the party best able to manage it. Indeed, rather than transferring risk to the private sector, in the case of roads DBFO has created additional costs and risks to the public agency, and to the public sector as a whole, through tax concessions that must increase costs to the taxpayer and/or reduce service provision. In the case of hospitals, PFI has generated extra costs to hospital users, both staff and patients, and to the Treasury through the leakage of the capital charge element in the NHS budget. In both roads and hospitals these costs and risks are neither transparent nor quantifiable. This means that it is impossible to demonstrate whether or not VFM has been, or indeed can be, achieved in these or any other projects.
While the Government’s case rests upon value for money, including the cost of transferring risk, our research suggests that PFI may lead to a loss of benefits in kind and a redistribution of income, from the public to the corporate sector. It has boosted the construction industry, many of whose PFI subsidiaries are now the most profitable parts of their enterprises, and led to a significant expansion of the facilities management sector. But the main beneficiaries are likely to be the financial institutions whose loans are effectively underwritten by the taxpayers, as evidenced by the renegotiation of the Royal Armouries PFI (NAO 2001a).”
Inspiration struck me while i was in the shower, lathering myself up and thinking of Jude
Inspiration in the form of song…I think its pretty good, I call it:
She’s like the wind
She’s like the wind through my tree
She rides the night next to me
She leads me through moonlight
Only to burn me with the sun
She’s taken my heart
But she doesn’t know what she’s done
Feel her breath on my face
Her body close to me
Can’t look in her eyes
She’s out of my league
Just a fool to believe
I have anything she needs
She’s like the wind
I look in the mirror and all I see
Is a young old man with only a dream
Am I just fooling myself
That she’ll stop the pain
Living without her
I’d go insane
Feel her breath on my face
Her body close to me
Can’t look in her eyes
She’s out of my league
Just a fool to believe
I have anything she needs
She’s like the wind
Feel your breath in my face
Your body close to me
Can’t look in your eyes
You’re out of my league
Just a fool to believe
(Just a fool to believe) she’s like the wind
Just a fool to believe (just a fool to believe)
She’s like the wind (just a fool to believe)
Just a fool to believe (just a fool to believe)
She’s like the wind
Just a fool to believe (just a fool to believe)
She’s like the wind
Just a fool
She’s like the wind
She’s like the wind
Just a fool
She’s like the wind, just a fool
She’s like the wind through my tree
She rides the night next to me
She leads me through moonlight
Only to burn me with the sun
She’s taken my heart
But she doesn’t know what she’s done
Feel her breath on my face
Her body close to me
Can’t look in her eyes
She’s out of my league
Just a fool to believe
I have anything she needs
She’s like the wind
I look in the mirror and all I see
Is a young old man with only a dream
Am I just fooling myself
That she’ll stop the pain
Living without her
I’d go insane
Feel her breath on my face
Her body close to me
Can’t look in her eyes
She’s out of my league
Just a fool to believe
I have anything she needs
She’s like the wind
Feel your breath in my face
Your body close to me
Can’t look in your eyes
You’re out of my league
Just a fool to believe (just a fool to believe)
She’s like the wind (just a fool to believe)
Just a fool to believe (just a fool to believe)
She’s like the wind
Just a fool to believe (just a fool to believe)
She’s like the wind
Just a fool
She’s like the wind
She’s like the wind
Just a fool
She’s like the wind, just a fool
The lawsuit is sub judice so I can’t talk about it specifically but just to let you know I’ve had enough of every other person taking credit for my work and it ends here
And I heard from a reliable source that “Three Blind Mice” is also on the list.
The inspiration, it is said, came from the Three Wise Monkeys. Alas Zoology seems not to be his strong suit, and his interpretation of the proverb is just a wee bit askew.
“The Volga Boatmen”. I wrote a song once, to that tune, which told the history of the Russian revolution in three verses.
“When Serge and I were young we went to live in Omsk
Where we spent our time, manufacturing bombsk.
Bombsk! Bombsk! Bombsk! Bombsk! Manufacturing bombs!
When Serge and I grew up, we went to live on Murmansk
Where we spent our time, hatching revolutionary plansk.
Plansk! Plansk! Plansk! Plansk! Hatching revolutionary plansk!
When Serge and I grew old, we went to live in Ototsk
Where we spent our time foiling counter-revolutionary plotsk.
Plotsk! Plotsk! Plotsk! Plotsk! Foiling counter-revolutionary plotsk!”
Good God.
I thought that Puckish Rogue had taken some relatively normal poem and then turned it into a parody.
Now you publish the original and I would have to say that he had actually improved it. How do these poems get written and who on earth publishes them? Or reads them for that matter?
I think we should go back to the poetry of more normal times. Bring back the poems of my days at primary school.
Quinquireme of Nineveh from distant Ophir,
Rowing home to haven in sunny Palestine,
With a cargo of ivory,
And apes and peacocks,
Sandalwood, cedarwood, and sweet white wine.
Stately Spanish galleon coming from the Isthmus,
Dipping through the Tropics by the palm-green shores,
With a cargo of diamonds,
Emeralds, amythysts,
Topazes, and cinnamon, and gold moidores.
Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack,
Butting through the Channel in the mad March days,
With a cargo of Tyne coal,
Road-rails, pig-lead,
Firewood, iron-ware, and cheap tin trays.
Wasn’t that better. As anything else would be better than Swayze.
Or, as Mary Hopkins would have it a bit later on
“Those were the days my friend”
A MoW should do all the engineering that the government needs done. This is actually the point – the government has the scale to maintain such an entity full time.
The biggest part of the MOW’s work was in their Power Division.. Primarily they were building all the Hydro Power Stations. They wouldn’t be allowed to do that these days. The Luddites in the Green Party would oppose any new stations on the grounds that it might affect whatever stream they had just labelled “The greatest wild river in the world”.
Personally I think the South Island landscapes were greatly improved by the Hydro lakes. The Waikato River is also enhanced by the various dams that gave the scenic, and recreational lakes.
But Red Russel and his mates would be out demonstrating about any development at all. I suppose James Shaw would also arrive in his Crown Limo and his bright shiny Red Band gumboots and indulge in a bit of tut-tutting.
But they would oppose any work being done to supply people with renewable power.
The biggest part of the MOW’s work was in their Power Division.. Primarily they were building all the Hydro Power Stations. They wouldn’t be allowed to do that these days. The Luddites in the Green Party would oppose any new stations on the grounds that it might affect whatever stream they had just labelled “The greatest wild river in the world”.
The Greens would have the MoW building wind power instead (I’m personally in favour of offshore wind-farms) and installing solar (PV and water heating) on roofs around the country. Probably even a couple of geothermal stations.
But they would oppose any work being done to supply people with renewable power.
Require energy retailers to buy or generate a proportion of their sales from renewable resources.
Help district and regional councils plan for wind farm sites.
Support a programme to install solar water heating panels on government and private buildings.
Investigate the potential of woody biomass, biofuels, and energy from waves, tides and currents.
I read right through that list and failed to see, anywhere, a mention of hydro-electric power.
Just what do you have against it?
At least you, although not the Green Party apparently would allow Geothermal power.
Hydro-electric and geothermal were the things that the MOW were good at, and therefore, it seems, the things the Greens are against.
I assume that the party never put their investments into such industries. I know they invested in a New Zealand wind energy firm. That didn’t work out too well did it, in spite of them pushing its cause?
Geothermal development for industrial process heat and electricity can be sustainable under some circumstances. It must be developed with care to ensure that natural thermal features are not disrupted, and that fluids are re-injected to deep wells so that heat and fluid are not depleted. Iwi and hapū connected to the resource, and their values, must be respected. The Green Party will:
1. Support sustainable development and use of geothermal energy.
2. Facilitate iwi and hapū involvement in the development and use of geothermal energy.
F. Hydroelectricity
Hydro provides the backbone of our current electricity generation system. The Green Party does not favour further large hydro plants because:
• Our system is vulnerable to dry winters already and we need to diversify away from hydro, and
• Rivers are important habitats for wildlife and highly valued for recreation such as fishing and kayaking. We need to protect wild rivers from further development.
The Green Party supports:
1. Small hydro developments being considered on their merits, where they can be built without significant damage to ecology or public values.
2.Iwi and hapū involvement in the planning of small hydro projects, where these projects involve water resources within the rohe of the iwi or hapū.
No I didn’t. I read the piece Draco quoted.
On the other hand, after reading the section you quote I am not going to change my opinion.
There are so many qualifications in here that no development will ever take place.
“We need to protect wild rivers from further development.”
ie. No more development allowed because you simply class every river as a “wild” one, don’t you.
By the way. Just how many people really go kayaking on these “wild rivers”? I see quite a lot in Wellington Harbour but damn all on the Hutt River and I can’t remember seeing any on the Orongorongo river.
PR not quite correct there, from days gone by when working with another contractor that is well known in NZ !!! the sub contractors tender prices are incorporated pre tender calculation before being submitted to the client. No contractor would implement the process you are proposing, as the principal would be exposed to both the ability to a sub contractor to commit and the price that they would charge.
In many contracts I have been privy to, sub contractors are also included as part of the tender, so the client can weigh up different tenders and their ability to deliver.
The ability for a govt to replicate MoW is well past. The time to gear up both with a work force and gear would be too prohibitive. I will say many of those skilled construction workers working with heavy equipment, developed their trade from MoW days e.g. Grader driver, tunnelling certificate holders etc. i.e where practical tradies learnt their trades.
You comment with limited industry knowledge. pity otherwise you could add some value to the topic !!
The private sector Downer EDI Works – was MoW. Other large construction coys have had 20+ years to build up resources, equipment as the sector has grown. Where would a new MoW obtain staff from ?? More immigrants, and if so ANOTHER broken promise from our current govt. Cannibalise from existing coys.
Buy equipment ? If experienced coys as Fletchers are finding it difficult how would the govt ?
Also how would a active MoW operate under our Free Trade Agreements ?? That is why I commented that the time had past for this Min. to be replicated again. Pity as commented before, this was a great entity that gave work experience to so many and built so much of our current infrastructure. Oh to go back to 1996 and reverse that decision 🙁 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Works_and_Development
so mike hoskins Born: 24 January 1965 (age 53 years)
i would guess he starts having proper memories of holidays and going away sort of around 1973 ish, give or take a year or two.
so i googled for strikes between 1974 – 1979 just for giggles and came to this
Quote: ” Either way, industrial relations between management and unions were not always good, especially in the 1970s. Railways sometimes seemed more interested in moving its own rail wagons than people.
In 1988, angered by cancelled sailings, passengers took matters into their own hands. After sleeping in the tatty old terminal and watching ferries come and go full of rail wagons while being told that there was no room for people, passengers blocked the railway line until promised higher priority for people and cars.”
snip (this is the bit posted above that does not have the correct time frame for the purists)
Several times between 1971 and 1983 the government launched ‘Operation Pluto’, using state domestic airline and air force planes to fly passengers and cars between Wellington and Blenheim during prolonged industrial disputes.
snip – to finish
Quote: Although there has not been a major strike since 1994, the editor of New Zealand Marine News chuckled at public reaction to a brief dispute in September 2003. ‘Despite this ten-year strike-free period, passengers interviewed on television complained vociferously as if such disputes were still frequent and recent.’Quote
Now did Mr. Hoskins complain about the ferries that loaded their ship with rail cars to the point were they could not take passengers up? Oh noes, that would be his paymasters. ……
Desperate attempt to get Sanctuary out of a massive hole fails.
We are undoubtedly seeing a new era of industrial problems beginning, with unions emboldened by a weak government who stoked expectations and now merrily destroys business confidence.
So what? Are you serious? Businesses employ people. They provide capital which produces profits on which taxes are paid to fund government spending. You do know that, right? You do know that governments only survive because of private enterprise? That government services, welfare systems, hospitals, schools, only exists because businesses employ people, make money and pay taxes?
The signs are already there that this government is stuffing the economy, while also managing to be incompetent in too many other areas to count.
Fifth, money would no longer siphon wealth from the working to the wealthy. As already pointed out, the kinds of individuals who gain great wealth and power in our present system are not distinguished by great intelligence, sagacity or skill, so much as by a common lack of concern for the results of their activities. The great tragedy of our civilisation, pointed out again and again by commentators of many different persuasions, is that the moral element is no longer influential. A restoration of morality in our economic and political dealings would be transformative.
‘Democracy’ was traditionally understood to be rule by the not-so-well-off, because the not-so-well-off are always in the majority. But today’s ‘democracies’ are dominated by the rich. There are some reasons for this discrepancy. First, what we like to call democracy – electoral representation – is in truth not very democratic.[65] Second, most voters are in the dark about laws and practices that favour wealth.
One of the aspects of Sovereign Money would be that rich people would become superfluous. We could, as a nation, decide where our resources are going to be used rather than leaving it to a small clique of self-aggrandising arseholes.
yeah right, try reducing business levels by say 20% in NZ and see how much the Government has available to pay nurses and teachers then.
Fine for you to expound your wonk theory but the rest of us live in the real world – if business is not producing the cake then government has nothing to slice, it is that simple.
Your Utopian communist model has never worked anywhere Draco
“According to the World Bank, more than 500 million people were lifted out of extreme poverty as China’s poverty rate fell from 88 percent in 1981 to 6.5 percent in 2012, as measured by the percentage of people living on the equivalent of US$1.90 or less per day in 2011 purchasing price parity terms”
“Since 2008, too, the proportion of people in extreme poverty population has fallen steadily, from 17.8% to just 10.8% of the global population. In 2013 alone, 114 million people were lifted out of extreme poverty.”
Addressing business leaders, he said: ‘I’m late to realising that it’s you guys, it’s the private sector, it’s commerce that’s going to take the majority of people out of extreme poverty. And, as an activist, I almost found that hard to say.’
While I can’t locate the exact link I feel reasonably secure in suggesting that industry is just as dirty, if not more so, under communism
I’d also suggest that as wealth continues to grow in a country that country will then produce more of an educated, middle class which in turn leads to greater benefits for that country
For example when western countries entered the industrial age the countryside suffered, the poor suffered, nature suffered but (a bit too slowly sure) as education has increased as has the social conscience grown with it so now more effort, and money, is spent on welfare, on conservation, on education
Same thing will happen in China, India etc etc, in fact it might even happen sooner
“Just as dirty” – well that’s okay then. I personally, am not championing Communism. I was asking you to nominate a properly implemented Capitalist model, then my aim was to show how unsuitable your best model was, in real terms (that is, not ruining the place).
I don’t think capitalism or communism has been properly implemented but if you look at the difference in NZ at the start of industrialisation to now you’ll see a massive difference, some good some bad but overall better
Same with older European countries and the same with countries like Canada or even the USA
You look at countries that are communist and its only the countries that are taking on more capitalism, like China, that’re improving the lot of their people
Sure its not scientific but when it comes down it Capitalism is the best of the current lot of choices we have or the lest worst, whatever way you want to look at it
Capitalism, far from ideal; Communism, far from ideal. I’m not especially enamoured of any of the systems on display right now, Pucky. How about a discussion that doesn’t call on those labels but instead looks at the parts of human society that do work, regardless of their table, and see if we can stitch something together that’s better than anything going?
“Generally better off”, perhaps, but still doomed (just differently). In any case, I’m betting Communism is as responsible for many of the ills that loom over us now. And almost every other ism. Some models out there though, aren’t causing these problems, I reckon.
yeah right, try reducing business levels by say 20% in NZ and see how much the Government has available to pay nurses and teachers then.
As much as it chooses. That’s one of the benefits to the government creating the nations money and spending it into the economy. It would benefit private business as well – no more interest to pay.
Fine for you to expound your wonk theory but the rest of us live in the real world – if business is not producing the cake then government has nothing to slice, it is that simple.
That is actually a lie and always has been. It’s not private that makes the wealth of a nation.
Your Utopian communist model has never worked anywhere Draco
It’s never been tried. Capitalism, on the other hand, has been and it’s always resulted in the collapse of society and now it’s pushing us to the 6th Great Extinction that may result in us being extinct.
Personal responsibility is not meant to be ME ME ME. It’s about being a responsible member of society and community as well as responsible for yourself. Corporatism shuns both society and community for profits. Legally obliged to profit and protected by law, corporate entities take more than they give by their very structure. And they will bury competition if they can. It’s the ‘free market’.
I have no problem with people acquiring wealth, especially when they work for it. But some wanker on several million per year who rides roughshod over environmental and social structures in order to profit is a fucking scumbag, not a leader.
A leader of shits, perhaps. That part that makes your bowels squirm, the sweat rises, nothing is comfortable and will no longer possibly feel ok till the situation is resolved. Scum in high places upset the whole damn works.
Anyone behind the scenes directing such antisocial activities is an abhorrent asshole, not even fronting for their own shit. The willfully ignorant who enable such activity and promote their spin are also culpable, Hosking et al fit this description.
Honest money for honest effort. Or really, fuck right off.
We don’t need to dismantle capitalism, we need to dismantle the old boys clubs.
Banks are public institutions masquerading as private businesses.
“We will be told we must lift the cap on salaries and bring back bonuses to attract the “best people”. We should reply that we’ve had the best people and we’d rather have just good ones. We will be told that huge salaries and bonuses will show the banks are getting back to normal.
We should reply that this is exactly what we’re afraid of.”
Quoting “Why we can’t afford the rich” by Andrew Sayer, Richard Wilkinson
CEOs’ pay: because they can
You have to realise: if I had been paid 50 per cent more, I would not have done it better. If I had been paid 50 per cent less, then I would not have done it worse. (Jeroen van der Veer, former Chief Executive, Royal Dutch Shell)89
OK. If I am being honest with you then yes, let’s whisper it, but the truth of the matter is that all of us are overpaid. There is nothing magical about what we do. Anybody can do it. (Allen Wheat, Chief Executive of the giant investment bank Credit Suisse First Boston, 1998)90
If you’ve made a lot of money, it’s really just a matter of keeping score. (H.L. Hunt, Texan oil millionaire)91
Our banksters don’t get the pay that they deserve but the pay that they want. A choice that normal employees don’t have.
And then there’s this:
Martin Wolf, again at the Financial Times, summarised the situation thus:
Financial systems are important servants of the economy, but poor masters. A large part of the activity of the financial sector seems to be a machine to transfer income and wealth from outsiders to insiders, while increasing the fragility of the economy as a whole.… Banks are rent-extractors – and uncompetitive ones at that.114
Wolf also asked: ‘Can we afford our financial system?’ His response was unequivocal: ‘The answer is no.’ I agree. Its wealth is not only mostly parasitic but achieved at the cost of destabilising whole economies. It’s both unjust and dysfunctional.
A curiosity is that high pay actually reduces effort.
Motivation is a complex interaction and simplistic mechanisms like CEO pay have less to do with that than with ability to coopt the value streams that properly belong to the owners.
Deci, E. L., Koestner, R., & Ryan, R. M. (1999). A Meta-Analytic Review of Experiments Examining the Effect of Extrinsic Rewards on Intrinsic Motivation. Psychological Bulletin, 125(6), 627-668.
Re Mike Hoskings missing out on holidays in the 70’s……………cry me a river………boo hoo not. He needs to go and visit families living in cars or mouldy houses and then he would have some genuine grievance (on their behalf) and of course one of the strands in the rope that has led us to our current situation re housing and poverty is the barbaric labour relations laws and the fact that we pay such a useless waste of space (Hoskings) so much money while others get so little.
HOPE SPRINGS, AR—The holy and sacrosanct miracle of birth, long revered by human civilization as the most mysterious and magical of all phenomena, took place for what experts are estimating “must be at least the 83 billionth time”
That reads, Pucky, given that the miracle is on its way, Jacinda will be comfortably in for a second term. Now, if she plays her cards right, the third will be a cinch!
And yet you’re convinced Judith has what it takes to be PM!!!
That’d be a miracle, that; Judith, feet under the PM’s desk.
(Ever read Roald Dahl’s, “The Witches”, Pucky? Always check the feet.)
“Evangelical leader Franklin Graham, son of Billy Graham and a prominent Trump supporter, told the Christian Broadcasting Network last week that the practice was “disgraceful, and it’s terrible to see families ripped apart and I don’t support that one bit.”
Days later, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops condemned the practice on anti-abortion grounds.
“This decision negates decades of precedents that have provided protection to women fleeing domestic violence,” conference President Daniel Cardinal DiNardo wrote June 13. “Unless overturned, the decision will erode the capacity of asylum to save lives.””
tronald dump will be feeling the heat now – slowly rising towards him and what’s that fucken brimstone smell???
Good morning The AM Show All the best to Jacinda and Clarke with the start of the birth of their first moko. trump has buckle under the pressure of te tangata of Papatuanukue to change the policy’s on America boarders Ka pai ECO MAORI will wait and see exactly what he does before I give him credit for the changes to this unhumane policy of taking mokos from there parents.
Many thanks to the AM Show for advocating responsibilities drinking of That killer drug Alcohol. I propose that there are adverts that show te Mokopunas that there are many consequences to drinking to much alcohol one mite die end up in the hinaki / jail most people have done dumb shit while drinking alcohol get the stuff out of OUR supermarkets have bottle stores close at 9 pm many ideas to make axcess to alcohol harder.
It looks like dancing with the stars is just a show that is used to premote the political act party the last time the show ran it promoted rodney hide he’s retired from politics now and this show its all about david seenothing /seymour that’s what I see.
Duncan you have seen for yourself what happened when people put bullshit spinning out about you.
Ka kite ano
Here you go this is the attitude /racial discrimination some have for tangata whenua of Atoearoa. The word BRO discription in the oxford nz dictionary its shocking and Maori culture tangata deserve a apologie over this other forum of suppression of Maori. I get pissed off when some people use the word BRO as a joke they manly white people think Maori people are to dumb to pick up there smart ass put down of you as if they are the only ones blessed with intelligence MUPPETS heres the link below
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Waatea News at the invitation of the North Island Whānau Ora Commissioning Agency will exclusively broadcast the next Māori-led Inquiry into Oranga Tamariki starting today at 1pm. ...
Staff at the Ministry of Social Development say they are enthusiastic about the government’s $54 million investment in housing the homeless, with many describing it as a welcome change. ...
Today posters have gone up outside ANZ branches across New Zealand to expose ANZ’s sponsorship of an exclusive oil industry group, ‘The Petroleum Club’. The satirical posters play on ANZ’s recent ad campaigns, replacing the banks’ tagline ‘healthy ...
Imagine a country where children look forward to walking or cycling to school, parents arrive home safely, and the journeys we take for work or pleasure do more than leave us alive or uninjured, they also improve our lives. This is happening now in countries ...
Sunday, 18 August, 2019 - Environmental groups and well known New Zealanders are preparing to deliver a 55,000 strong petition to the steps of Parliament tomorrow, calling on the Government to protect the world’s smallest dolphin. ...
The Government’s proposed rescue plan must be strengthened because it is the last chance to save Māui dolphins from extinction and secure the future for Hector’s dolphins, Forest & Bird says. ...
Simon Shepherd: Roads, schools, hospitals, prisons, the building blocks that keep society functioning. And we don't have enough. It's called the infrastructure deficit and will be the focus of a major conference this coming week. The man charged with ...
New Zealand has been issued a stark challenge from Pacific leaders to dramatically upscale its action to address climate breakdown, Oxfam says, after a clear rallying cry from nations at this week’s Pacific Islands Forum. ...
Support for Recreational Dope Going ‘Up in Smoke’ Family First NZ is welcoming yet another poll showing plummeting support for legalising cannabis in New Zealand. The Horizon Research poll shows support for legalising has plummeted from 60% last ...
The prospect of ending wider cannabis prohibition looks increasingly unlikely. Over the last nine months, the percentage of New Zealanders who would vote for legalising the personal use of cannabis has declined at a near linear rate of around 10% per ...
“It’s disappointing that news out of the United States of hospitalisations linked to illegal street drugs is somehow seen as relevant to the New Zealand vaping scene,” says Ben Pryor, Director of Alt New Zealand – the largest Kiwi-owned vaping company. ...
The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists (RANZCP) welcomes the successful passing of Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill through parliament, by the New Zealand Government. ...
Today’s news from the Electoral Commission has provided the party with the clarity it was seeking around use of the word “Coalition” being used as the brand name of the party. ...
A recently released Otago University study has provided further evidence that low-quality housing is a significant problem in Aotearoa. This has prompted the Chief Executive of the Association of Consulting Engineers (ACENZ) Paul Evans to question “why ...
With the BNZ-Business NZ PMI signaling manufacturing is contracting , the Government needs to seriously consider tax relief, says the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union . ...
The New Zealand Maori Council has called for an overhaul of the Public Services executive ranks as the Corrections debacle shows mis-management and incompetence at the highest level. Matthew Tukaki, Executive Director of the New Zealand Maori Council has said ...
Findings from the 2018 New Zealand Consumer Survey have been released and the results are in; 48 per cent of respondents consider their purchases based on how ethically employees are treated. ...
The responsibility for the fact that Westland Milk Products is now in the hands of an overseas conglomerate 25% owned by the Chinese government can be laid fair and square at our government's doorstep. ...
As Fonterra is projecting multi million dollar losses for the second year in a row, it is clear the writing is on the wall for dairy as more and more Kiwis turn to plant milks. 22nd August is International Plant Milk Day and there is now a different plant ...
The $65,000 granted to Interislander so it can install electric vehicle chargers on its ferries is the most absurd waste of money yet to be delivered by the “Low Emissions” vehicle fund, says the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union. ...
Wellingtonians will have the chance to hear international child rights experts from Ireland, Scotland and Samoa speak at the Making Child Rights Real in Aotearoa New Zealand seminar to be held in the city on Wednesday 21 August. ...
Paul Evans, Chief Executive of the Association of Consulting Engineers (ACENZ), is advocating a balanced approach to the development of productive land. ...
CPAG (Child Poverty Action Group) says that new research from the University of Otago provides a solid foundation for why the Government must not delay instating a comprehensive Warrant of Fitness for tenanted homes in Aotearoa-New Zealand, and ...
The Independent Police Conduct Authority has found that an officer drove carelessly during a pursuit and that this was the primary cause of a collision with a motorcycle that injured the rider. ...
Responding to the Prime Minister’s commitment of $150 million in funding for climate change response in the Pacific, New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union spokesman Louis Houlbrooke says: “It is no secret that many Pacific nations lack serious oversight when it ...
AUT research not only shows an increase in political affiliation, but that candidates affiliated to a central political party are more likely to win seats in Auckland local government. ...
On the 23rd of August School Strike NZ will join Ollie Langridge in his 100th day of sitting outside of New Zealand Parliament calling for the government to declare a climate emergency. School Strike 4 Climate NZ also demand that Parliament acknowledge ...
You have stood up for what is fair, and I am sure you will speak for over 7 million people who have been muted and rendered voiceless in Indian occupied Kashmir for more than a 10 days now. I am writing to bring to your notice the plight of Kashmiri ...
In the last 10 months alone, 11 petitions have been delivered to Parliament calling for medicines to be funded by Pharmac. Today, another nine petitions have been launched by Patient Voice Aotearoa (PVA) members asking that life changing, saving and extending ...
When we were first working to get Miscanthus approved for import into New Zealand, the Environmental Risk Management Authority (ERMA) waived the fee for their work because they thought that having Miscanthus in New Zealand was so very much in the ...
PHARMAC’s recent decision to fund two additional drugs from December this year has been widely welcomed by patients and the general public alike. The drugs, Kadcyla and Ibrance, are used in the treatment of advanced lung and breast cancers and will ...
Animal rights organisation SAFE is urging the Government to include experts and advocates from outside the agriculture industry on its newly announced winter crop grazing taskforce. ...
The Government’s plans to prohibit housing on ‘productive’ farmland will serve as yet another regulatory tax on housing, and is a shameful breach of Jacinda Ardern’s promise to fix housing supply, says the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union . ...
The latest round of the Ethnic Communities Development Fund opens today, supporting projects that grow the leadership and capability of ethnic groups, improve cultural understanding, and ensure our ethnic communities are a vibrant and celebrated part ...
The New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union is warning of the dangers of hiking excise tax, in response to calls from a former Prime Minister for stronger action on alcohol harm. Taxpayers’ Union spokesman Louis Houlbrooke says, “It seems inevitable ...
LGNZ will be cautiously assessing the wider implications of the newly proposed National Position Statement on Highly Productive Land (NPS-HPL), noting that that it traverses a number of highly complex policy areas including housing affordability and property ...
The new joint from the team behind one of Wellington’s favourite craft beer bars is dedicated to minimal-intervention, organic wine – and more exciting things are coming to the heritage building it’s housed in.Before the Cadbury factory opened in Dunedin in 1930, New Zealanders ate Cadbury chocolate made in England. ...
Alex Casey chats to Bree Tomasel about hosting Celebrity Treasure Island NZ, farting in the ZM studio and going viral on the regular. The most important thing you need to know about Bree Tomasel is not the fact that she peed her pants during Celebrity Treasure Island NZ, but the glee ...
Dr Bryce EdwardsAnalysis by Dr Bryce Edwards – The election race is on. The nominations process for local government positions has now closed, and the political campaign is officially underway. But does the public care? Will many of us even vote for any of the various mayoral or council ...
At Eden Park on Saturday night, the Wallabies were on the receiving end of a ruthless players’ revenge, writes Scotty StevensonThe rain came. It always seems to at Eden Park, just as the Wallabies warm up on the pitch, dreaming of ending a drought. It came from the west, the ...
Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.New Zealand Parliament Buildings, Wellington, New Zealand.Today’s content by Dr Bryce Edwards.Local government Michael Fallow (Stuff): Your council – what’s its job description? Dileepa Fonseka and ...
Protesters occupying land at Ihumātao will begin a four-hour hikoi to Mt Albert on Thursday to present a petition calling on the Prime Minister to visit the land. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jamie Walvisch, Lecturer, Monash University This morning an Extinction Rebellion protester was arrested after hanging from a rope over the William Jolly Bridge in Brisbane, blocking all lanes to peak hour traffic. And earlier this month in Brisbane, more than 70 climate ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laura Jobson, Senior Lecturer in Clinical Psychology, Monash University Many of us enjoy writing in a diary, reading autobiographies or nostalgically reflecting with others about past times. Why is remembering our past so important? Are there downsides? And what can we do ...
Roll Red Roll is a brutal, painfully illuminating documentary on the Steubenville High School rape case, a shocking crime that made headlines worldwide. Emily Writes reviews. This review discusses rape and sexual violenceAugust 11, 2012: two teenage boys rape an unconscious teenage girl as two of their peers watch and ...
By RNZ Pacific Tuvalu’s Prime Minister has condemned the Australian Prime Minister’s conduct at last week’s Pacific Islands Forum, calling Scott Morrison’s attitude “unfortunate” and “neo-colonial,” and questioning Australia’s future in the 18-member body. In an interview with RNZ on Sunday, Enele Sopoaga also threatened to pull Tuvaluan labour from ...
The second hui of the Māori-led inquiry into Oranga Tamariki takes place in Hamilton today. Newsroom, in partnership with Radio Waatea, are broadcasting it live from 1pm. ...
Prolific, award-winning Palmerston North poet Paula Harris somehow manages to be stroppy and properly vulnerable all at once. Here, she writes about her first slam competition – and why she cried all the way home. I am old enough to have given birth to most of the people here.Sure, there’s a ...
High speed rail links between cities could play a massive role in revitalising regional New Zealand, says a visiting transport infrastructure expert. Professor Andrew McNaughton spoke to Alex Braae. Imagine commuting from Hamilton to Auckland, and it only taking an hour to get there. It’s a vision of how the right ...
On the good days, riding a bike is the best. But in Auckland there aren’t nearly enough of those days, and unless decision makers take urgent action, that’s not going to change.This piece originally appeared on Bike AucklandMy first bike crash in central Auckland happened on Symonds Street. I was ...
It's not since 1989 that a mayoralty campaign in the southern city has been so unpredictable - a record 14 candidates have put their names forward. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Mills, Hon Senior Lecturer, School of Social and Political Sciences, University of Sydney On the morning of the last Monday in April, 2019, federal election officials opened the doors of more than 500 pre-poll voting centres around Australia, and waited for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Veronica Alfano, Research Fellow, Australian Catholic University Memorising poetry was once common in classrooms. But it has, for the most part, gone out of style. There are good reasons for this. Memorisation can clash with creativity and analytical thought. Rote learning can ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Darren Paul Fisher, Head of Directing, Department of Film, Screen and Creative Media, Bond University What do J.J. Abrams, Phoebe Waller-Bridge, Shonda Rhimes, David Lynch, Aaron Sorkin, Donald Glover, Jenji Kohan, Jordan Peele, Tina Fey, and Joss Whedon have in common? They ...
Good morning, and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Mayors launch bids to return in Auckland and Wellington, Hamilton’s skyline could change significantly, and support for cannabis legalisation plummets in poll.Two incumbent mayors have launched their re-election campaigns over the weekend, with a bigger fight on their hands than ...
MediaWorks has been lobbying the Government to turn TVNZ 1 into a non-commercial channel to help stem its own financial bleeding. Frustrated, and getting nowhere, it’s decided to change tack. ...
Customs has cracked down on a GST rort, leaving Trade Me to pay back thousands of dollars to customers who had new cameras and smartphones seized at the border. ...
The 37-8 result meant the Black Ferns finished with a handy 5-1 record for the year, suggesting they are tracking well enough towards a successful defence of the 2021 World Cup. ...
New Zealand has long been the world’s imagined lifeboat – and increasingly for something more than just escape, writes Elle Hunt.One Friday morning in January 1847, Charles Dickens wrote to his friend John Forster that he was “disposed to go to New Zealand and start a magazine”. The quote was ...
New Zealand is one of only two developed countries, along with the US, that permits direct-to-consumer advertising of prescription medicines, and it needs to stop, writes Dr David Menkes. It’s been a long time coming: a new Consumer report makes it clear that most New Zealanders want to see a ban ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Scott Morrison has a sharp lecture for bureaucrats about their KPIs, in a comprehensive speech laying down how he expects the Australian Public Service to operate under his government. Morrison stresses the service must be ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Treasurer Josh Frydenberg has issued a timetable for the government’s dealing with the recommendations from the royal commission into banking, superannuation and financial services, which aims to have all measures needing legislation introduced by the ...
By Ghinan Salman in Surabaya As many as 43 Papuan students were taken to the district police headquarters after Indonesian police fired teargas and forced their way into a student dormitory in the East Java provincial capital of Surabaya at the weekend. The Papuan students were forcibly removed from ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Griffiths, Senior Associate, Grattan Institute Each new generation of Australians since Federation has enjoyed a better standard of living than the one that came before it. Until now. Today’s young Australians are in danger of falling behind. A new Grattan Institute ...
Jamie Wall reviews Jonah, the two-part Three telefeature that follows the life of our most famous All Black, and finds it an effective but mixed retelling of the legend.Honestly, it’s a wee bit disappointing that the only notable on-screen dramatisation of the All Blacks in recent years was centred on replacement ...
We love it battered and served with chips, but tarakihi stocks aren’t doing well and another big cut to commercial catch limits is in the works. Ah yes, terrakee, that’s a fish, right?Well, first things first, let’s say it correctly. Pronounce every syllable, remember the Māori vowel sounds (A-E-I-O-U), roll the ...
Good on their own, even better with cheese – these crisp, moreish crackers are destined to become your new go-to savoury snack.These crackers have been on high rotation in our household – they’ve filled lunchboxes, accompanied fine cheeses on evening platters and been eaten by the fistful straight from the jar. ...
Open Mike 20/06/2018 
by Philip Ferguson This weekend just past marks the 50th anniversary of Woodstock, the most famous of the great 1960s music festivals. It was held over the weekend (Friday-Monday) of August 15-18, 1969. Woodstock was a highpoint of the US ‘counter-culture’, and also the beginning of its end. When exploring the ...3 hours ago
Last week, Australia sabotaged the Pacific Forum by opposing action on climate change. Their Deputy Prime Minister followed that up by saying that Pacific Peoples could always pick Australian fruit - just as they had done in the era of blackbirding. And now, that arrogant, tone-deaf approach has drawn a ...3 hours ago
In the previous two posts, I laid out the context and set the theoretical framework to answer a question: whether indigenous economies should take the LEAP. This final part outlines ways to conceive of practicing mana motuhake within the existing legal system by carving out special jurisdictions that enable Indigenous ...1 day ago
Fully Informed? Labour’s 2017 promises raised expectations that were little short of revolutionary. Unfortunately, they were never adequately shaken through the fiscal sieve. The hard economic work was not done – and it shows. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s critics have long complained that her grasp of the way the New ...1 day ago
You cannot expect to pound communities into the ground day after day, year after year, decade after decade and just expect them to take it lying down. There’s a point at which the place will explode. And we’re faced with some very big ructions on both sides of the Atlantic ...3 days ago
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Going Down? Once truth and propaganda become fused in the minds of one’s followers, debate and discussion become redundant. If one’s opponents are all outrageous liars, then engaging with them in any way is pointless. Rather than waste its time, a political party should, instead, target all its messages at ...3 days ago
We need to fundamentally reframe our systems settings to address the drivers causing and underpinning inequality; structural change in systems especially financial. The Equality Network Hui was held in Wellington on 27 June 2019. The hui covered important topics such as child poverty; a living wage; taxation; public health; mental ...5 days ago
The views-per-page for some of my recent postings:Depressing, isn't it? Provide thoughtful and wise commentary on the mainstream of British politics and no-one notices. Make a passing reference to Tommy DICKHEAD Robinson in a thread title and you get hundreds of views. Write something about anti-Semitism and you get another ...5 days ago
The government has announced plans to move the Treaty of Waitangi and other taonga to a new site. Great news! So where are they going? Right next to the old one:The new plan will see a new 22,000-square-metre archive built on the former site of Defence House - the former ...5 days ago
Back in June, StatsNZ went public about a project to track population data on an hourly level by using people's cellphones. It wasn't as bad as it initially looked - they were receiving no individual data, only counts by suburb - but there was still a huge consent problem, so ...5 days ago
Most economists agree that a currently slowing economy could do with some stimulus – and they would also agree that there is no shortage of infrastructure projects which could be brought to productive fruition with help from that stimulus. In view of the current practice of sub-contracting economic policy decisions ...5 days ago
I did an interview on the TVNZ Breakfast Show about the situation in Hong Kong. I tried to frame the issue as a collective action problem between two sides with very different end games. The video is here. Because of time constraints we could not discuss the fact that the ...5 days ago
Image Credit: Wild Rose College A new study reporting the ranges of values for kidney and liver parameters in a healthy population is being actively misrepresented by anti-fluoride campaigners. The Fluoride Action Network’s (FAN) latest ... 5 days ago
Alone, Alone. All, All Alone: Will it be a good or a bad thing, when humanity’s bright blue spacecraft is stricken by the civilisation-destroying problem of Climate Change, that no Huston Control will be standing-by to rescue the crew?“WE HAVE A PROBLEM, HUSTON.” These were the words used by the ...6 days ago
Divided Loyalties: Can the Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, be relied upon? That’s what the boys and girls at Foggy Bottom and the Pentagon needed to be reassured about. Because, from the perspective of Washington, it’s looking more and more like Jacinda Ardern and her Labour Party comrades are getting ready ...1 week ago
This handy Queer Theory Glossary is from thetranswidow.com In case you’ve had trouble keeping up with the spate of new queer theory terms, here’s a handy glossary for your reference. Queer – A straight person with an interesting haircut. Non-binary/genderqueer – A chubby young female, typically 16-28, who has ...1 week ago
The winter grazing issue is becoming a highly sensitised one that I hope will not become so politicised that it delays solutions and results in the suicides of some very stressed farmers.Winter grazing has hit the headlines after a determined campaign, including the release of a video of some very ...1 week ago
The Green Part has been accused of lack of transparency in two recent situations. The first was the claimed media lockdown during Green's annual conference and the second was Julie Ann Genter's refusal to release a letter she had sent to Phil Twyford.I do get frustrated when journalist's succumb to ...2 weeks ago
Blowing-Up The House: Is Winston Peters planning to put himself at the head of all those New Zealanders who refuse to countenance the Coalition Government caving-in to the Ihumatao protesters? The most effective way of doing this would be to issue Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern with an ultimatum. If she ...2 weeks ago
A Cult, that many actors, politicians, and those with a low IQ are joining is sweeping across civilisation, with one main intention – ending humans reign on Earth. Starting as a well meaning though deeply flawed theory, that the Earth was warming due to mankind emitting greenhouse gasses, it was ...2 weeks ago
There is a military phrase: “Full spectrum dominance”. It refers to the all-encompassing policy to dominate across all spheres of war. Lately, that has come to include the internet – in other words, cyberwarfare initiatives. That is in addition to land, sea, air and the like. Now, if ...2 weeks ago
The IMF issued a Report on the state of the Economy as it is at present. Some of it points out significant issues that certainly warrant attention, but that we know already exist. Some of it is very much tied to the very obvious context of global concerns, that everyone ...2 weeks ago
I'm glad to see the Lib Dems won.I had a moment of terror yesterday thinking that the Conservatives might cling on, due to a combination of Johnson's elevation to the premiership, the apparent uselessness of the Lib Dem candidate (who had failed to be elected in other constituencies) and the ...2 weeks ago
. . Current Leader of the National Party, Simon Bridges gave the usual rah-rah speech to the Loyal & Faithful in Christchurch today (27 July). With National’s party polling and his own personal popularity sliding steadily in the polls, Mr Bridges has not much left to reverse his fortunes. ...2 weeks ago
Those concerned for Langridge’s wellbeing say they hope he’ll change his mind when he sees the ocean coming. The protester who has vowed to stand outside Parliament every day until the Government announces a climate emergency says he accepts that his quest will most likely end in drowning. Ollie Langridge, ...2 weeks ago
Opportunities to dodge tax are shrinking with the completion of a new tax agreement with Switzerland, Revenue Minister Stuart Nash announced today. Mr Nash and the Swiss Ambassador David Vogelsanger have today signed documents to update the double tax agreement (DTA). The previous DTA was signed in 1980. “Double tax ...2 weeks ago
An Auckland Homelessness Collective is optimistic extra government support for sustaining tenancies signals a commitment to a multi-pronged approach to tackling homelessness. ...4 hours ago
The Commerce Commission's first market study will wade into the complex fuel market - here's what you need to know. ...43 mins ago
The new joint from the team behind one of Wellington’s favourite craft beer bars is dedicated to minimal-intervention, organic wine – and more exciting things are coming to the heritage building it’s housed in.Before the Cadbury factory opened in Dunedin in 1930, New Zealanders ate Cadbury chocolate made in England. ...1 hour ago
A new five-year strategy comes with a new prison population reduction target from the minister. ...1 hour ago
Alex Casey chats to Bree Tomasel about hosting Celebrity Treasure Island NZ, farting in the ZM studio and going viral on the regular. The most important thing you need to know about Bree Tomasel is not the fact that she peed her pants during Celebrity Treasure Island NZ, but the glee ...2 hours ago
The way things are going, Germany may soon be 'the sick man of Europe' again. ...3 hours ago
3 hours ago
At Eden Park on Saturday night, the Wallabies were on the receiving end of a ruthless players’ revenge, writes Scotty StevensonThe rain came. It always seems to at Eden Park, just as the Wallabies warm up on the pitch, dreaming of ending a drought. It came from the west, the ...3 hours ago
Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.
Protesters occupying land at Ihumātao will begin a four-hour hikoi to Mt Albert on Thursday to present a petition calling on the Prime Minister to visit the land. ...3 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jamie Walvisch, Lecturer, Monash University This morning an Extinction Rebellion protester was arrested after hanging from a rope over the William Jolly Bridge in Brisbane, blocking all lanes to peak hour traffic. And earlier this month in Brisbane, more than 70 climate ...4 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laura Jobson, Senior Lecturer in Clinical Psychology, Monash University Many of us enjoy writing in a diary, reading autobiographies or nostalgically reflecting with others about past times. Why is remembering our past so important? Are there downsides? And what can we do ...4 hours ago
Roll Red Roll is a brutal, painfully illuminating documentary on the Steubenville High School rape case, a shocking crime that made headlines worldwide. Emily Writes reviews. This review discusses rape and sexual violenceAugust 11, 2012: two teenage boys rape an unconscious teenage girl as two of their peers watch and ...4 hours ago
By RNZ Pacific Tuvalu’s Prime Minister has condemned the Australian Prime Minister’s conduct at last week’s Pacific Islands Forum, calling Scott Morrison’s attitude “unfortunate” and “neo-colonial,” and questioning Australia’s future in the 18-member body. In an interview with RNZ on Sunday, Enele Sopoaga also threatened to pull Tuvaluan labour from ...4 hours ago
New Zealand's economy is not headed for recession, ASB chief economist Nick Tuffley says. ...6 hours ago
The second hui of the Māori-led inquiry into Oranga Tamariki takes place in Hamilton today. Newsroom, in partnership with Radio Waatea, are broadcasting it live from 1pm. ...6 hours ago
We continue our series on bookstores around New Zealand as Wilma van den Bosch explains how she opened Petronella's in Lake Tekapo. ...6 hours ago
Prolific, award-winning Palmerston North poet Paula Harris somehow manages to be stroppy and properly vulnerable all at once. Here, she writes about her first slam competition – and why she cried all the way home. I am old enough to have given birth to most of the people here.Sure, there’s a ...6 hours ago
The country's wood processors say the international log price war and protected overseas economies are crippling the New Zealand trade. ...7 hours ago
On the good days, riding a bike is the best. But in Auckland there aren’t nearly enough of those days, and unless decision makers take urgent action, that’s not going to change.This piece originally appeared on Bike AucklandMy first bike crash in central Auckland happened on Symonds Street. I was ...8 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Mills, Hon Senior Lecturer, School of Social and Political Sciences, University of Sydney On the morning of the last Monday in April, 2019, federal election officials opened the doors of more than 500 pre-poll voting centres around Australia, and waited for ...10 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laura Hart, Senior Research Fellow, University of Melbourne Last week, federal health minister Greg Hunt announced that more than 60,000 Australians will be asked about their mental health and well-being as part of the Intergenerational Health and Mental Health Study. The mental ...10 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Veronica Alfano, Research Fellow, Australian Catholic University Memorising poetry was once common in classrooms. But it has, for the most part, gone out of style. There are good reasons for this. Memorisation can clash with creativity and analytical thought. Rote learning can ...10 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Darren Paul Fisher, Head of Directing, Department of Film, Screen and Creative Media, Bond University What do J.J. Abrams, Phoebe Waller-Bridge, Shonda Rhimes, David Lynch, Aaron Sorkin, Donald Glover, Jenji Kohan, Jordan Peele, Tina Fey, and Joss Whedon have in common? They ...10 hours ago
The inverted yield curve is to economists what Voldemort was to Harry Potter - the dark lord whose name should never be mentioned. ...11 hours ago
Good morning, and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Mayors launch bids to return in Auckland and Wellington, Hamilton’s skyline could change significantly, and support for cannabis legalisation plummets in poll.Two incumbent mayors have launched their re-election campaigns over the weekend, with a bigger fight on their hands than ...12 hours ago
MediaWorks has been lobbying the Government to turn TVNZ 1 into a non-commercial channel to help stem its own financial bleeding. Frustrated, and getting nowhere, it’s decided to change tack. ...13 hours ago
The Wallabies arrived in Auckland with one hand on the Bledisloe Cup and flew home with it amputated. ...13 hours ago
Customs has cracked down on a GST rort, leaving Trade Me to pay back thousands of dollars to customers who had new cameras and smartphones seized at the border. ...13 hours ago
The 37-8 result meant the Black Ferns finished with a handy 5-1 record for the year, suggesting they are tracking well enough towards a successful defence of the 2021 World Cup. ...13 hours ago
Nikki Mandow tells us why social procurement is more exciting than it sounds - and how it might change the world. ...13 hours ago
New Zealand is one of only two developed countries, along with the US, that permits direct-to-consumer advertising of prescription medicines, and it needs to stop, writes Dr David Menkes. It’s been a long time coming: a new Consumer report makes it clear that most New Zealanders want to see a ban ...14 hours ago
A look at how our banks behave when the rules aren't tough enough. ...14 hours ago
By Ghinan Salman in Surabaya As many as 43 Papuan students were taken to the district police headquarters after Indonesian police fired teargas and forced their way into a student dormitory in the East Java provincial capital of Surabaya at the weekend. The Papuan students were forcibly removed from ...18 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Griffiths, Senior Associate, Grattan Institute Each new generation of Australians since Federation has enjoyed a better standard of living than the one that came before it. Until now. Today’s young Australians are in danger of falling behind. A new Grattan Institute ...19 hours ago
Jamie Wall reviews Jonah, the two-part Three telefeature that follows the life of our most famous All Black, and finds it an effective but mixed retelling of the legend.Honestly, it’s a wee bit disappointing that the only notable on-screen dramatisation of the All Blacks in recent years was centred on replacement ...22 hours ago
We love it battered and served with chips, but tarakihi stocks aren’t doing well and another big cut to commercial catch limits is in the works. Ah yes, terrakee, that’s a fish, right?Well, first things first, let’s say it correctly. Pronounce every syllable, remember the Māori vowel sounds (A-E-I-O-U), roll the ...24 hours ago
The debate over cancer drug funding us further complicated by lobby groups and opaque agenda. ...1 day ago
Here’s a reasonable argument for increasing the prison population….
“Annah Stretton: Women in prison can be given their best chance to change their life”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12064187
It mirrors closely what I thought could be a possible approach for male offenders.
Oh, pleeze. Female prisoners can’t even get enough clothing budget to get a decent bra. Instead they rely on charity for a basic need or its sag city.
I really fucking doubt that money for rehab is going to flood in or that anyone without a high degree of self interest will care.
Why not hold prison up as the next big self help craze? Book yourself in “because its your best chance”. What a load of shit.
Do you not think perhaps we might have the (failed) system we do because everyone is so negative about new approaches?
The author has spent time in the system, she’s observed and identified what she thought were many of the problems with our penal and justice system and she’s offered a possible solution. Her views were expressed in the timing & context of a new Goverment claiming a desire to reform the penal system.
You immediately leap to knock it down without even trying to critique it.
Though this isn’t a new approach, many kiwis believe prisoners are already helped into work and are provided with a support network during time in prison. The fact that outside organisations are left to do this work should be telling us something.
I have no doubt this org does great work, but there is no mention that prison might not be the best place to start a rehabilitation program. Women are currently housed in men’s prisons because the system is overloaded and they are separated from their families too, and those are just a couple of issues that spring to mind…
is Anna Stretton trying to get some cheaper machinists for her overpriced wares?
Let’s catch Mike Hosking out in a lazy lie, shall we?
Right wing lie: “…. As a kid who grew up in the 1970s and had holidays (note the plural – Sanc) stalled because of the pre-determined Cook Strait ferry action, it was part of the social landscape of my formative years…”
Now some facts:
According to the NZ History website:
“…Between 1986 to 1991 only 378 out of 21,654 sailings were cancelled because of industrial action. ..”
https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/cook-strait-rail-ferries/strikes-and-strandings
Sure low % but you do realize that is aprox 76 sailings a year cancelled by strike action?
How many of those 76 sailings were during a holiday period? Is the more imporatant percentage. For strike action to be effective it generally has to be disruptive.
From the same page:
“Several times between 1971 and 1983 the government launched ‘Operation Pluto’, using state domestic airline and air force planes to fly passengers and cars between Wellington and Blenheim during prolonged industrial disputes.”
The hidden dangers of industrial action exposed!
Some kid had his holiday in the ’70s disrupted and he turns out to have the mindset/outlook of Hosking in 2018. Now there’s scope for some deep psychological research.
The fact that Sanctuary used data from a different time period than Hosking was referring to makes you both look a bit silly.
They did have a habit of timing their strikes for holiday periods. Those cancelled sailings might seem few but IIRC they were often at the most inconvenient times for people. They weren’t very popular.
As with today’s employers mindset, stall, stall, stall, delay, deflect and lie until the employee’s and their representatives have no other option but to take action. And quite often the employers got very bolshy right about holiday time to inflict the worst impact on the general public so as to shine negatively on workers (bit like the holidaying folks themselves) standing up for their rights.
+111
Is the fact that your data is out by a decade on hoskings musings significant?
While i don’t want to be seen to be defending Hosking, how does this catch him out in a lie? He said “as a kid who grew up in the 1970s” so your figures starting in 1986, when he was 21, are meaningless.
I’m only a couple of years younger and i can remember that ferry strikes were a regular thing at holiday times. The site you link to states:
That really is a bullshit site, saying that the 70s were worst but then quoting figures for the 80s only.
Forgive if this is a stupid question, but how does quoting stats from the mid 80’s disprove someones point about the 70s?
Re Mike Hoskings missing out on holidays in the 70’s……………cry me a river………boo hoo not. He needs to go and visit families living in cars or mouldy houses and then he would have some genuine grievance (on their behalf) and of course one of the strands in the rope that has led us to our current situation re housing and poverty is the barbaric labour relations laws and the fact that we pay such a useless waste of space (Hoskings) so much money while others get so little.
Here are some more facts for you.
“In 1923, jockey Frank Hayes won a race at Belmont Park in New York despite being dead — he suffered a heart attack mid-race, but his body stayed in the saddle until his horse crossed the line for a 20–1 outsider victory.”
and that is just about as relevant as the facts you are quoting trying to catch Hosking out in a lie.
Hosking has been dead in the saddle all these years?
I knew it!
i needed that chuckle.
Hosking has been dead in the saddle all these years?
I knew it!
+ 1000%
Wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If only some people here would realise that you actually have a good sense of humour – even if you are one of ‘them righties’!
He grew up in the 70s and you’re giving figures from the late 80s sanky? What gives?
At the risk of ruining your day, you data is not for the period Hosking was referring to. “Between 1986 to 1991” is not the 1970’s.
Leave Sanctuary alone.
He has realised he screwed up with his yarn and has returned to this site and made a most fulsome apology to both Hosking and the readers of this blog.
He has completely accepted that he was wrong.
Well, I’m sure he means to do it when he has a bit of time.
Or not.
Are you drunk.
That is the worst “fact check” ever.
Or the best 🙂
“Let’s catch Mike Hosking out in a lazy lie, shall we”
That’s an epic fail Sanctuary
https://coub.com/view/tbi2c
“Only”…..
an average of 71 a year. Or one every 5 days on average. At least once a week on average.
Ahhh the good old days right sanc. No admittance to public transport and vital infrastructure in an island nation without your cloth cap on.
Wanker
It is mik hoskin so not worthy of anyone’s time, don’t you think?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/104702124/doublebunking-and-a-ppp-wasnt-what-kelvin-davis-had-in-mind-for-waikeria
Easy to criticise when in opposition but its a different story when in power
ha, maybe we need a sentencing reform and a prison reform.
but is there money to be made? Oh noes!
Yep – and nice that you recognize that. Could be handy as a filter for the doss put out by the gnats.
If PPP can make things better and cheaper then I’m all for it, a view apparently shared by both Labour and National
Can’t see too many options and I don’t like Davis. Inherited problems – bloody gnats.
The potential exists, but not the discipline to realise it.
The Korean government makes PPPs reasonably frequently. Private companies that don’t meet spec get restructured. If they’re lucky.
Consider the lax treatment of P testing fraudsters. These people made a lucrative business from pretending to expertise they did not possess. Other fraudsters face more substantial punishment.
What gets me about politicians in general (both left and right) is the blatant bollix about getting back into power
A party will promise anything even though they know that chances are they won’t be able to implement since they have to negotiate after the election
So now its not breaking election promises its “having to negotiate”
Yeah National will do it as well and the cycle will continue
Well they can’t negotiate a coalition agreement before an election. How would that work?
Couldn’t happen of course but wouldn’t it be nice if parties had to announce who they’d work with, and then announce the policies, before the election
A minor party could honestly say, “If we were the dominant party, we’d…” as it is, the smaller players can’t really claim much at all, other than to say they’d stay as true to their principles and claims as possible.
As possible.
That’s why I like The Greens.
Although there is some truth to that, we on the left are less tolerant of liars in general.
If Labour cannot make a credible show of trying to keep their promises, they won’t just lose the election, they’ll be out for three or more terms, till conspicuous liars retire.
What’s more, the Key Kleptocracy went much further in normalizing dishonesty in power than has been conventional in NZ.
There are promises that circumstances force politicians to break – and there is flagrant and unrepentant bullshit with no basis in reality – like everything the Gnats ever did.
(I’m not disagreeing with you) As I see it if voters “ok” blatant hypocrisy (on both sides) then really the only people to blame are ourselves
They can’t. By logic it must be more expensive:
1. The private sector has higher financing costs
2. The private sector seeks to extract profits from it
3. The number of people employed must be the same at the same rate
4. A government MoW can buy in far greater bulk and thus get far better economies of scale
And then there’s what’s actually happening
https://bankwatch.org/public-private-partnerships
https://www.euractiv.com/section/innovation-industry/news/academic-public-private-partnerships-cost-more-deliver-less/
Getting the private sector to do government services costs more and we get less. Privatisation was nothing more than a way to increase the bludging capability of the rich on the poor.
The problem with something like the railways was that, as a monopoly, well lets just say that they didn’t have a reputation for customer service or proper handling of good and that the MOW (and others) became dumping grounds and were used to hide true unemployment figures
Having said that the social costs may actually be greater than the monetary costs (thanks Labour) so as i said previously I wouldn’t mind seeing a limited return of the MOW, maybe to handle large scale works
Which is just the BS that the privatisers told everyone.
I’m not saying that the system was perfect but the accusations were based solely upon anecdote. One person in the right place and the right job and suddenly everyone who works for the government is tarred as being scum in the MSM.
And a large part of the reason why I say that out telecommunications are ten years behind where they should be is because of the thousands of people made redundant from Telecom after the sale. Those thousands of people represent the work that hasn’t been done.
Then you don’t remember how long it took to buy a phone before Telecom was privatised
Yes I do – I worked for Telecom.
You couldn’t buy a phone – you rented them.
To get one installed would take a couple of days to a few weeks depending upon where you were and the work that needed to be done. To connect a phone required sending someone around to the exchange to connect it and sending someone out to the house to connect it there as well which would take a few days as the labour got organised. If you were somewhere which didn’t have a phone line at all (and there were still many such places) then it would take weeks as we organised running several kilometres of line.
Part of the problem here was that the MSM would ring up the PO and ask how long to get a phone connected. The PO would then call the local PO communications branch (The two were actually separate entities) and get the standard reply of one month to six weeks. This, of course, had a built in fudge factor due to the high labour intensity and the fact that shit happpens.
I also worked for Telecom in the 2000s where I learned that in some places it would take months or longer to get ADSL connected. This despite the fact that we started running fibre out to the cabinet in the 1980s. That latter bit got stopped when Telecom got sold.
So, after decades of experience in the Real World I can assure you that things have actually got worse since the sale of Telecom. We get less and it costs more.
“You couldn’t buy a phone – you rented them.”
– Thats worse than today
“To get one installed would take a couple of days to a few weeks depending upon where you were and the work that needed to be done.”
– A few weeks to get a phone line installed whereas now you can get any electrician to do the job
Things have gotten better as now if you don’t want Telecom you can go elsewhere, you have choice (unless you’re out in the wop wops)
No it’s not. Why would you even want to own a phone?
There’s more to installing a phone than just the house wiring. You can’t get the electrician to run the cable from the exchange and if you don’t have that then it could take weeks, months or even not happen at all as rural farmers are now finding out.
?
And that choice cost you more without any added benefits.
“No it’s not. Why would you even want to own a phone?”
– Handy if the mobile network goes down plus for a lot of people of the last 30 odd years its been their main form of communication
“You can’t get the electrician to run the cable from the exchange and if you don’t have that then it could take weeks, months or even not happen at all as rural farmers are now finding out.”
– Unfortunately that’s, to me, of part of the deal in living rurally
“And that choice cost you more without any added benefits.”
– Personally speaking I pay less money for more services then i ever have
If the mobile network goes down then the phone still isn’t going to work even if you own it.
But it wouldn’t be if telecommunications were still a state service.
I doubt that you’re doing a proper comparison or even have the slightest idea as to how privatisation has made things more expensive for you. Take that owning the phone that you’re so concerned about.
My present mobile phone is a couple of years old but it was actually released back in 2014. It’s updated to Android 7.1.1 but it’s never going to update Android 8. This means to say that it’s going to become a security threat to the entire network in the near future if it isn’t already one. To counter this threat a state phone service simply send me a new one in the mail but as I own it it means that I have to buy a new one. The phone is actually quite a good one and will last me several more years – years of being a security threat which is going to add more costs to maintaining the network and those added costs get placed on to you.
Then there’s the profit of course. Profit costs a huge amount in work that’s delayed or simply not done so that the bludging shareholders can have more for nothing.
And added competition costs more too. More bureaucracy to pay for, more network infrastructure that’s simply not needed and, of course, more bank interest and profits to pay for as well.
It all adds up and costs you far more than what you should be paying.
I appreciate the effort but you’ll never convince me that communism is the answer, unless the question is what is a form of government should we never try
And that’s where your ideology loses touch with reality.
Says the guy championing communism, which has never worked anywhere ever
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes
That’s a crock.
I had several phones in under the old system – same day was the rule, the next day was the longest. And one of those was on Stewart Is. Telecom did not improve service in any way shape or form – the only reason it was the only successful privatization was technology developed elsewhere grew the market, and incompetent governments failed to break up their monopoly so they screwed consumers.
https://teara.govt.nz/mi/telecommunications/print
But business customers in particular wanted more sophisticated telephone services which were available internationally, and households were often frustrated by the time it took to get a telephone.
Toll prices came down by 60% between 1987 and 1992. After 1987 anyone in New Zealand could wire up, repair or sell telecommunications equipment, though Telecom New Zealand maintained firm control over access to the network.
Which is actually a load of bollocks.
To get those more sophisticated telephone services required newer exchanges. We were putting them in as fast as possible but doing takes time and money – both of which was in short supply. And by the 1980s most phones were installed in a short time. The cables an exchanges could handle it.
I’m always surprised by people who declaim the benefits of the market then complain about the market operating as expected. This leads me to think that these morons don’t actually know what the pricing system is for.
The pricing system in the market is to restrict use of limited resources.
If there’s only 50 lines going between Auckland and Wellington then you don’t actually want 51 people making calls and you can’t tell people don’t make calls and so you make the price high it so that people only make calls if they really, really need to.
With the fibre roll out in the 1980s those sorts of restrictions declined and so toll prices dropped. Simple market action.
Yep, it was technology that dropped prices – not the commercialisation and privatisation of Telecom.
I also remember going round to one of those houses that the electrician wired up – and cutting them off and blacklisting them. The idiot electrician had run the phone wires with the electrical wires and there was 75 volts of induced power in the house wiring which was causing havoc in the exchange. Would be interesting to know how much that idiot ended up costing his customers before he got it right.
Telecom deliberately munted attempts to improve internet speed for years to retain earnings from toll calls.
And vicious turd Peter Shitcliffe dared to misappropriate our money to campaign against MMP.
Telecom’s history is odious, so bad they had to change their name
“to buy a phone”
You must be much younger than I am. When it was the New Zealand Post office that supplied the services you certainly weren’t allowed to connect your own phone to their lines. You had to use the phone they supplied. Mostly they were great big black clunkers.
It cost you more to rent a phone in a different colour.
Those were the days.
When I was first married and trying to get a phone in Wellington it took me about 5 months to get the phone connected. Even then I only got it after being screwed around for that long because I complained to the Minister about his departments stuff-ups.
Privatisation made the service much, much better.
Oh, come on – the type 100s weren’t that bad.
Probably didn’t have cables running past you place or they were already at capacity. In other words, you’re complaining about physical reality and the time it takes to physically run several kilometres of cable to your place.
No, it didn’t.
“Oh, come on – the type 100 s weren’t that bad.”
They were just a dream for the future.
I was talking about 1968 when they were rotary dialling. The ones you illustrate were something out of Science Fiction.
It was even older than this one. This illustration is much smaller than the one I was supplied with.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:New_Zealand_Rotary_Telephone.jpg
Actually this link confirms my memory that it wasn’t until Telecom was started that you could use your own phone.
There were cables available and they weren’t at capacity.
The bloody Post Office kept losing track of the paperwork. The claimed, twice, that I hadn’t paid the deposit and that the time to get connected would have to restart from the date I proved that I really had paid them and I had a receipt. After the second case of this, when they told me it would now be a further 3 months, I wrote a letter of complaint to the Minister, and sent a copy to the Post Office Director General.
They would have got the letters on a Monday. I came home on Tuesday to find that the PO had turned up to install the phone and on Wednesday the phone went in. Then on the Thursday I received a letter from the Cabinet Minister saying he had instructed the Department to sort it out. I thought that really deserved a thank you and sent him one. From 3 months down to a couple of days.
a bit like fibre installs lol
@McFlock
I think Fibre’s even worse. I’ve been waiting since November for an install advertised as “in a couple of days”. Current promise is now sometime in July. Chorus – a screaming joke of a company only surviving through want of competition.
Draco, your assertions using Telecom as the example, are correct…
There is a reason why nationally owned telecomms providers were first draft fire sales back in the 80/90’s…
It was not for the benefit of the ‘customer’…
Private is not responsible for nor did private nor will private lead to ‘improvements’…
Facade!
Privatisation and PPPs – extractive ‘industries’ that kick real costs “down the line”.
Railways was of course not a PPP – it was a government organisation. I suspect that the featherbedding has been overstated – certainly there were some fficienciess that were overdue, but many changes were only possible through changes in the external environment – possible more widely available and reliable telephone communications for example.
As given in Draco’s post above PPPs cost more and deliver less – and experience since 2009 when one of those was written has only emphasised that. Some PPPs are “dressed up” with lower visible costs but with the expense of long terms “maintenance” contracts that delibver ongoing p[rofits to the private company.
I was disappointed to hear that the current governmetj are using a PPP to build the new prison – the reason is however given in the 15 June Stuff article:
“During Question Time on Thursday, Associate Finance Minister David Clark said: “there is clear evidence around the Government’s prior experimentation with PPPs that they did not work. There are a number of perverse outcomes, and this Government has steered clear thus far of any such foolishness.”
When challenged on the Government’s decision to use a PPP for Waikeria, he said the decision was made because corrections – under the previous government – had already signed a $34 million PPP contract.”
If a PPP appears to make the government accounts look better, you can be fairly certain that the fault lies with the accounting system.
Exactly Draco, PPP’s a just an accountancy and corporate welfare web that delivers at least 30%+ higher a price than if the government does it themselves. Why would you use something that you know will cost 30% more, unless you are a Moran or on the take??????
“UK PFI debt now stands at over £300bn for projects with an original capital cost of £55bn”
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/30/pfi-britain-hospital-trust-debt-burden-tax
“Conservatively estimated, the trusts appear to be paying a risk premium of about 30% of the total construction costs, just to get the hospitals built on time and to budget, a sum that considerably exceeds the evidence about past cost overruns.”
For roads:
This report: https://image.guim.co.uk/sys-files/Society/documents/2004/11/24/PFI.pdf
found that PPP “contracts are considerably more expensive than the cost of conventional procurement”, resulting in higher returns for the companies running the PPP’s compared to their industry peers.
While hard to compare because of the opaque nature of many contracts and large amounts of subcontracting out, it looked like the actual cost of capital of the PPP’s was 11% compared to Treasure borrowing of 4.5% i.e. 6.5% higher. This is supposed to represent the cost of risk transfer but in practice there was no risk transfer so it’s money for nothing.
“In conclusion, the road projects appear to be costing more than expected as reflected in net present costs that are higher than those identified by the Highways Agency (Haynes and Roden 1999), owing to rising traffic and contract changes. It is, however, impossible to know at this point whether or not VFM (value for money) has been or is indeed likely to be achieved because the expensive element of the service contract relates to maintenance that generally will not be required for many years.”
Overall, for both roads and hospitals they concluded there was no risk transfer and not value for money.
“The net result of all this is that while risk transfer is the central element in justifying VFM and thus PFI, our analysis shows that risk does not appear to have been transferred to the party best able to manage it. Indeed, rather than transferring risk to the private sector, in the case of roads DBFO has created additional costs and risks to the public agency, and to the public sector as a whole, through tax concessions that must increase costs to the taxpayer and/or reduce service provision. In the case of hospitals, PFI has generated extra costs to hospital users, both staff and patients, and to the Treasury through the leakage of the capital charge element in the NHS budget. In both roads and hospitals these costs and risks are neither transparent nor quantifiable. This means that it is impossible to demonstrate whether or not VFM has been, or indeed can be, achieved in these or any other projects.
While the Government’s case rests upon value for money, including the cost of transferring risk, our research suggests that PFI may lead to a loss of benefits in kind and a redistribution of income, from the public to the corporate sector. It has boosted the construction industry, many of whose PFI subsidiaries are now the most profitable parts of their enterprises, and led to a significant expansion of the facilities management sector. But the main beneficiaries are likely to be the financial institutions whose loans are effectively underwritten by the taxpayers, as evidenced by the renegotiation of the Royal Armouries PFI (NAO 2001a).”
yep draco….i cant believe Labour going with PPP….wtf?
Rhetoric meets reality?
“Easy to criticise when in opposition but its a different story when in power”
As demonstrated by National now.
Yup
Pukish @ 4. your comment “easy to criticise when in opposition” now applies to your great love Judith…………..just saying.
Although I prefer another commenters way of putting it.
Arsonist starts fire,
Then whines at fire fighters for not putting it out sooner and say’s it wasn’t that bigger fire anyway………………………….
Judith is beyond reproach 🙂
LOL Puckish @4.4.1…………………………..I know love is blind
Inspiration struck me while i was in the shower, lathering myself up and thinking of Jude
Inspiration in the form of song…I think its pretty good, I call it:
She’s like the wind
She’s like the wind through my tree
She rides the night next to me
She leads me through moonlight
Only to burn me with the sun
She’s taken my heart
But she doesn’t know what she’s done
Feel her breath on my face
Her body close to me
Can’t look in her eyes
She’s out of my league
Just a fool to believe
I have anything she needs
She’s like the wind
I look in the mirror and all I see
Is a young old man with only a dream
Am I just fooling myself
That she’ll stop the pain
Living without her
I’d go insane
Feel her breath on my face
Her body close to me
Can’t look in her eyes
She’s out of my league
Just a fool to believe
I have anything she needs
She’s like the wind
Feel your breath in my face
Your body close to me
Can’t look in your eyes
You’re out of my league
Just a fool to believe
(Just a fool to believe) she’s like the wind
Just a fool to believe (just a fool to believe)
She’s like the wind (just a fool to believe)
Just a fool to believe (just a fool to believe)
She’s like the wind
Just a fool to believe (just a fool to believe)
She’s like the wind
Just a fool
She’s like the wind
She’s like the wind
Just a fool
She’s like the wind, just a fool
She’s Like the Wind
Patrick Swayze
She’s like the wind through my tree
She rides the night next to me
She leads me through moonlight
Only to burn me with the sun
She’s taken my heart
But she doesn’t know what she’s done
Feel her breath on my face
Her body close to me
Can’t look in her eyes
She’s out of my league
Just a fool to believe
I have anything she needs
She’s like the wind
I look in the mirror and all I see
Is a young old man with only a dream
Am I just fooling myself
That she’ll stop the pain
Living without her
I’d go insane
Feel her breath on my face
Her body close to me
Can’t look in her eyes
She’s out of my league
Just a fool to believe
I have anything she needs
She’s like the wind
Feel your breath in my face
Your body close to me
Can’t look in your eyes
You’re out of my league
Just a fool to believe (just a fool to believe)
She’s like the wind (just a fool to believe)
Just a fool to believe (just a fool to believe)
She’s like the wind
Just a fool to believe (just a fool to believe)
She’s like the wind
Just a fool
She’s like the wind
She’s like the wind
Just a fool
She’s like the wind, just a fool
Songwriters: Patrick Swayze / Stacy Widelitz
Swayze and Wildelitz must been in the shower with Pucky!!
The music industry is so dirty!
I feel for Pucky (but not in the shower!).
The lawsuit is sub judice so I can’t talk about it specifically but just to let you know I’ve had enough of every other person taking credit for my work and it ends here
‘parently “Gaudeamus Igitur” is Pucky’s.
“La Marseillaise” too, and “Happy Birthday”.
He’s not been served well by the industry, poor Puck.
“Yankee Doodle”, “Song of the Volga Boatmen” – the list goes on.
And I heard from a reliable source that “Three Blind Mice” is also on the list.
The inspiration, it is said, came from the Three Wise Monkeys. Alas Zoology seems not to be his strong suit, and his interpretation of the proverb is just a wee bit askew.
Nevermind, he can count to three.
“The Volga Boatmen”. I wrote a song once, to that tune, which told the history of the Russian revolution in three verses.
“When Serge and I were young we went to live in Omsk
Where we spent our time, manufacturing bombsk.
Bombsk! Bombsk! Bombsk! Bombsk! Manufacturing bombs!
When Serge and I grew up, we went to live on Murmansk
Where we spent our time, hatching revolutionary plansk.
Plansk! Plansk! Plansk! Plansk! Hatching revolutionary plansk!
When Serge and I grew old, we went to live in Ototsk
Where we spent our time foiling counter-revolutionary plotsk.
Plotsk! Plotsk! Plotsk! Plotsk! Foiling counter-revolutionary plotsk!”
Balalaikas optional.
Good God.
I thought that Puckish Rogue had taken some relatively normal poem and then turned it into a parody.
Now you publish the original and I would have to say that he had actually improved it. How do these poems get written and who on earth publishes them? Or reads them for that matter?
I think we should go back to the poetry of more normal times. Bring back the poems of my days at primary school.
Quinquireme of Nineveh from distant Ophir,
Rowing home to haven in sunny Palestine,
With a cargo of ivory,
And apes and peacocks,
Sandalwood, cedarwood, and sweet white wine.
Stately Spanish galleon coming from the Isthmus,
Dipping through the Tropics by the palm-green shores,
With a cargo of diamonds,
Emeralds, amythysts,
Topazes, and cinnamon, and gold moidores.
Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack,
Butting through the Channel in the mad March days,
With a cargo of Tyne coal,
Road-rails, pig-lead,
Firewood, iron-ware, and cheap tin trays.
Wasn’t that better. As anything else would be better than Swayze.
Or, as Mary Hopkins would have it a bit later on
“Those were the days my friend”
Love seems indeed, to be blind…and has the memory of a goldfish – “swamp kauri? threatening journalists? What Chinese connection???”
“swamp kauri? threatening journalists? What Chinese connection???”
– Sorry but I don’t understand what you’re saying it all sounds like gibberish to me 🙂
Not gibberish, Pucky, corruption .
Cor-rup-what now? Sorry it just doesn’t seem to compute
https://www.oxforddictionaries.com
Hey puckers that’s what Big Joolee said.
Well beyond puckers.
This government need to get the MoW going again so that we don’t have to the overly costly PPP model.
I hope that the government puts enough hooks into that contract to keep the private profiteers honest.
I could agree to the MOW starting up again but not to the same extent as it was before
However something that would make things a bit fairer, and more efficient, is to change how sub contracting work
For example Fulton Hogan bid for a contract and, once winning the contract, immediately put out a sub contract for a smaller company to do the work
Not sure how you’d do it but sorting that is something that’d get things moving a lot quicker
A MoW should do all the engineering that the government needs done. This is actually the point – the government has the scale to maintain such an entity full time.
Same goes for their IT really.
The biggest part of the MOW’s work was in their Power Division.. Primarily they were building all the Hydro Power Stations. They wouldn’t be allowed to do that these days. The Luddites in the Green Party would oppose any new stations on the grounds that it might affect whatever stream they had just labelled “The greatest wild river in the world”.
Personally I think the South Island landscapes were greatly improved by the Hydro lakes. The Waikato River is also enhanced by the various dams that gave the scenic, and recreational lakes.
But Red Russel and his mates would be out demonstrating about any development at all. I suppose James Shaw would also arrive in his Crown Limo and his bright shiny Red Band gumboots and indulge in a bit of tut-tutting.
But they would oppose any work being done to supply people with renewable power.
The Greens would have the MoW building wind power instead (I’m personally in favour of offshore wind-farms) and installing solar (PV and water heating) on roofs around the country. Probably even a couple of geothermal stations.
No they wouldn’t:
I read right through that list and failed to see, anywhere, a mention of hydro-electric power.
Just what do you have against it?
At least you, although not the Green Party apparently would allow Geothermal power.
Hydro-electric and geothermal were the things that the MOW were good at, and therefore, it seems, the things the Greens are against.
I assume that the party never put their investments into such industries. I know they invested in a New Zealand wind energy firm. That didn’t work out too well did it, in spite of them pushing its cause?
You obviously didn’t bother to click on the “Read the full policy here” tab at the bottom of the page:
E. Geothermal
Geothermal development for industrial process heat and electricity can be sustainable under some circumstances. It must be developed with care to ensure that natural thermal features are not disrupted, and that fluids are re-injected to deep wells so that heat and fluid are not depleted. Iwi and hapū connected to the resource, and their values, must be respected. The Green Party will:
1. Support sustainable development and use of geothermal energy.
2. Facilitate iwi and hapū involvement in the development and use of geothermal energy.
F. Hydroelectricity
Hydro provides the backbone of our current electricity generation system. The Green Party does not favour further large hydro plants because:
• Our system is vulnerable to dry winters already and we need to diversify away from hydro, and
• Rivers are important habitats for wildlife and highly valued for recreation such as fishing and kayaking. We need to protect wild rivers from further development.
The Green Party supports:
1. Small hydro developments being considered on their merits, where they can be built without significant damage to ecology or public values.
2.Iwi and hapū involvement in the planning of small hydro projects, where these projects involve water resources within the rohe of the iwi or hapū.
No I didn’t. I read the piece Draco quoted.
On the other hand, after reading the section you quote I am not going to change my opinion.
There are so many qualifications in here that no development will ever take place.
“We need to protect wild rivers from further development.”
ie. No more development allowed because you simply class every river as a “wild” one, don’t you.
By the way. Just how many people really go kayaking on these “wild rivers”? I see quite a lot in Wellington Harbour but damn all on the Hutt River and I can’t remember seeing any on the Orongorongo river.
How many pathetic dribbly South Island rivers have you seen lately wally?
How many pathetic dribbly comments have you made lately gobby?
You really are a dumb piece of shit aren’t you?
PR not quite correct there, from days gone by when working with another contractor that is well known in NZ !!! the sub contractors tender prices are incorporated pre tender calculation before being submitted to the client. No contractor would implement the process you are proposing, as the principal would be exposed to both the ability to a sub contractor to commit and the price that they would charge.
In many contracts I have been privy to, sub contractors are also included as part of the tender, so the client can weigh up different tenders and their ability to deliver.
The ability for a govt to replicate MoW is well past. The time to gear up both with a work force and gear would be too prohibitive. I will say many of those skilled construction workers working with heavy equipment, developed their trade from MoW days e.g. Grader driver, tunnelling certificate holders etc. i.e where practical tradies learnt their trades.
Food for thought, Herodotus. Thanks for that.
No it’s not.
No it wouldn’t. To gear up the private sector costs as well.
You comment with limited industry knowledge. pity otherwise you could add some value to the topic !!
The private sector Downer EDI Works – was MoW. Other large construction coys have had 20+ years to build up resources, equipment as the sector has grown. Where would a new MoW obtain staff from ?? More immigrants, and if so ANOTHER broken promise from our current govt. Cannibalise from existing coys.
Buy equipment ? If experienced coys as Fletchers are finding it difficult how would the govt ?
Also how would a active MoW operate under our Free Trade Agreements ?? That is why I commented that the time had past for this Min. to be replicated again. Pity as commented before, this was a great entity that gave work experience to so many and built so much of our current infrastructure. Oh to go back to 1996 and reverse that decision 🙁
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Works_and_Development
so mike hoskins Born: 24 January 1965 (age 53 years)
i would guess he starts having proper memories of holidays and going away sort of around 1973 ish, give or take a year or two.
so i googled for strikes between 1974 – 1979 just for giggles and came to this
Quote: ” Either way, industrial relations between management and unions were not always good, especially in the 1970s. Railways sometimes seemed more interested in moving its own rail wagons than people.
In 1988, angered by cancelled sailings, passengers took matters into their own hands. After sleeping in the tatty old terminal and watching ferries come and go full of rail wagons while being told that there was no room for people, passengers blocked the railway line until promised higher priority for people and cars.”
snip (this is the bit posted above that does not have the correct time frame for the purists)
Several times between 1971 and 1983 the government launched ‘Operation Pluto’, using state domestic airline and air force planes to fly passengers and cars between Wellington and Blenheim during prolonged industrial disputes.
snip – to finish
Quote: Although there has not been a major strike since 1994, the editor of New Zealand Marine News chuckled at public reaction to a brief dispute in September 2003. ‘Despite this ten-year strike-free period, passengers interviewed on television complained vociferously as if such disputes were still frequent and recent.’Quote
Now did Mr. Hoskins complain about the ferries that loaded their ship with rail cars to the point were they could not take passengers up? Oh noes, that would be his paymasters. ……
oh and this is from this pimko commie page .govt.nz 🙂 https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/cook-strait-rail-ferries/strikes-and-strandings
Desperate attempt to get Sanctuary out of a massive hole fails.
We are undoubtedly seeing a new era of industrial problems beginning, with unions emboldened by a weak government who stoked expectations and now merrily destroys business confidence.
Business isn’t confident, it’s cocky. Whenever its favoured enablers are out of power, business loses it’s
confidencecockiness.So
what.
So what? Are you serious? Businesses employ people. They provide capital which produces profits on which taxes are paid to fund government spending. You do know that, right? You do know that governments only survive because of private enterprise? That government services, welfare systems, hospitals, schools, only exists because businesses employ people, make money and pay taxes?
The signs are already there that this government is stuffing the economy, while also managing to be incompetent in too many other areas to count.
Which is all a lie.
All the capital, all the resources needed for that business comes from the community. And that community is represented by the government.
Bank Robbery: How would money (and the world) be different after reform?
One of the aspects of Sovereign Money would be that rich people would become superfluous. We could, as a nation, decide where our resources are going to be used rather than leaving it to a small clique of self-aggrandising arseholes.
yeah right, try reducing business levels by say 20% in NZ and see how much the Government has available to pay nurses and teachers then.
Fine for you to expound your wonk theory but the rest of us live in the real world – if business is not producing the cake then government has nothing to slice, it is that simple.
Your Utopian communist model has never worked anywhere Draco
I’ll bet that’s because it just hasn’t been implemented properly anywhere, ever…yet 🙂
The truth hurt does it?
Hey, Pucky! Do you reckon the capitalist model has ever been implemented properly anywhere, ever? If so, where?
Seems to be doing a decent job in China
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China
“According to the World Bank, more than 500 million people were lifted out of extreme poverty as China’s poverty rate fell from 88 percent in 1981 to 6.5 percent in 2012, as measured by the percentage of people living on the equivalent of US$1.90 or less per day in 2011 purchasing price parity terms”
Still has a way to go of course
https://qz.com/798481/over-a-billion-people-have-been-lifted-out-of-poverty-since-1990-but-the-next-billion-will-be-harder/
“Since 2008, too, the proportion of people in extreme poverty population has fallen steadily, from 17.8% to just 10.8% of the global population. In 2013 alone, 114 million people were lifted out of extreme poverty.”
Even Bono is saying it:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3258264/The-U2-U-turn-years-telling-hand-aid-Bono-admits-trade-eradicate-extreme-poverty.html
Addressing business leaders, he said: ‘I’m late to realising that it’s you guys, it’s the private sector, it’s commerce that’s going to take the majority of people out of extreme poverty. And, as an activist, I almost found that hard to say.’
Yep. I hear the night sky over there’s as clear as a clear and the rivers run the same. Success: smells like renminbi !
While I can’t locate the exact link I feel reasonably secure in suggesting that industry is just as dirty, if not more so, under communism
I’d also suggest that as wealth continues to grow in a country that country will then produce more of an educated, middle class which in turn leads to greater benefits for that country
For example when western countries entered the industrial age the countryside suffered, the poor suffered, nature suffered but (a bit too slowly sure) as education has increased as has the social conscience grown with it so now more effort, and money, is spent on welfare, on conservation, on education
Same thing will happen in China, India etc etc, in fact it might even happen sooner
“Just as dirty” – well that’s okay then. I personally, am not championing Communism. I was asking you to nominate a properly implemented Capitalist model, then my aim was to show how unsuitable your best model was, in real terms (that is, not ruining the place).
I don’t think capitalism or communism has been properly implemented but if you look at the difference in NZ at the start of industrialisation to now you’ll see a massive difference, some good some bad but overall better
Same with older European countries and the same with countries like Canada or even the USA
You look at countries that are communist and its only the countries that are taking on more capitalism, like China, that’re improving the lot of their people
Sure its not scientific but when it comes down it Capitalism is the best of the current lot of choices we have or the lest worst, whatever way you want to look at it
Capitalism, far from ideal; Communism, far from ideal. I’m not especially enamoured of any of the systems on display right now, Pucky. How about a discussion that doesn’t call on those labels but instead looks at the parts of human society that do work, regardless of their table, and see if we can stitch something together that’s better than anything going?
How the hell can things be generally better if we’re on the brink of eradicating all complex life forms thanks to capitalism?
“Generally better off”, perhaps, but still doomed (just differently). In any case, I’m betting Communism is as responsible for many of the ills that loom over us now. And almost every other ism. Some models out there though, aren’t causing these problems, I reckon.
As much as it chooses. That’s one of the benefits to the government creating the nations money and spending it into the economy. It would benefit private business as well – no more interest to pay.
That is actually a lie and always has been. It’s not private that makes the wealth of a nation.
It’s never been tried. Capitalism, on the other hand, has been and it’s always resulted in the collapse of society and now it’s pushing us to the 6th Great Extinction that may result in us being extinct.
Personal responsibility is not meant to be ME ME ME. It’s about being a responsible member of society and community as well as responsible for yourself. Corporatism shuns both society and community for profits. Legally obliged to profit and protected by law, corporate entities take more than they give by their very structure. And they will bury competition if they can. It’s the ‘free market’.
I have no problem with people acquiring wealth, especially when they work for it. But some wanker on several million per year who rides roughshod over environmental and social structures in order to profit is a fucking scumbag, not a leader.
A leader of shits, perhaps. That part that makes your bowels squirm, the sweat rises, nothing is comfortable and will no longer possibly feel ok till the situation is resolved. Scum in high places upset the whole damn works.
Anyone behind the scenes directing such antisocial activities is an abhorrent asshole, not even fronting for their own shit. The willfully ignorant who enable such activity and promote their spin are also culpable, Hosking et al fit this description.
Honest money for honest effort. Or really, fuck right off.
We don’t need to dismantle capitalism, we need to dismantle the old boys clubs.
We need to dismantle capitalism
Or say goodbye to life as we know it on this planet.
Capitalism = The Old Boys Clubs.
Banks are public institutions masquerading as private businesses.
“We will be told we must lift the cap on salaries and bring back bonuses to attract the “best people”. We should reply that we’ve had the best people and we’d rather have just good ones. We will be told that huge salaries and bonuses will show the banks are getting back to normal.
We should reply that this is exactly what we’re afraid of.”
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-banks-are-public-institutions-masquerading-as-private-businesses-1.3534868
It’s behind a paywall, that link.
People should join a co-operative bank or a credit union.
Quoting “Why we can’t afford the rich” by Andrew Sayer, Richard Wilkinson
Our banksters don’t get the pay that they deserve but the pay that they want. A choice that normal employees don’t have.
And then there’s this:
A curiosity is that high pay actually reduces effort.
Motivation is a complex interaction and simplistic mechanisms like CEO pay have less to do with that than with ability to coopt the value streams that properly belong to the owners.
Deci, E. L., Koestner, R., & Ryan, R. M. (1999). A Meta-Analytic Review of Experiments Examining the Effect of Extrinsic Rewards on Intrinsic Motivation. Psychological Bulletin, 125(6), 627-668.
High pay tends to result in worse outcomes:
Horrid. As usual indigenous communities and the environment put at risk for black gold, money and lies.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2018/jun/19/salish-sea-pipeline-indigenous-salish-sea-canada-trans-mountain
Re Mike Hoskings missing out on holidays in the 70’s……………cry me a river………boo hoo not. He needs to go and visit families living in cars or mouldy houses and then he would have some genuine grievance (on their behalf) and of course one of the strands in the rope that has led us to our current situation re housing and poverty is the barbaric labour relations laws and the fact that we pay such a useless waste of space (Hoskings) so much money while others get so little.
He is really quite repulsive.
Selfish.
Entitled.
Narcissistic.
The perfect neo-liberal.
Israel calls for the banning of imports of all petrol and diesel vehicles within 12 years:
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Energy-Minister-calls-for-banning-diesel-gas-based-cars-in-Israel-by-2030-543768
Other countries have been bolder, but it would still be great to see our own government propose such steps.
I would love to see labour come out with that. Although for different reasons than you I would guess.
UPDATE
https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/pregnancy/104857010/no-surprises-that-arderns-baby-missed-the-due-date
https://www.theonion.com/miracle-of-birth-occurs-for-83-billionth-time-1819565067
HOPE SPRINGS, AR—The holy and sacrosanct miracle of birth, long revered by human civilization as the most mysterious and magical of all phenomena, took place for what experts are estimating “must be at least the 83 billionth time”
Seems appropriate 🙂
83 billionth? So Jacinda’s might be the 83billionth-and-one! Even more reason to celebrate wildly! Tell everyone! Tell THE WORLD!!!
(It’s a miracle!)
A miracle is probably the only way the current government will get a second term 🙂
That reads, Pucky, given that the miracle is on its way, Jacinda will be comfortably in for a second term. Now, if she plays her cards right, the third will be a cinch!
And yet you’re convinced Judith has what it takes to be PM!!!
That’d be a miracle, that; Judith, feet under the PM’s desk.
(Ever read Roald Dahl’s, “The Witches”, Pucky?
Always check the feet.)
I’m surprised at you Robert:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/apr/07/cursed-from-circe-to-clinton-why-women-are-cast-as-witches
Just because shes a powerful, intelligent, confident (and alluring) women is no reason to be intimadated by her 🙂
There are some very fine witches out there, Pucky.
Judith’s not one of them.
I think you’ll find she’d fit in pretty well in this movie:
In the picture, is she the thin one with her head on fire?
She’s a great match for you, Pucky!
Thats a good movie 🙂
83, just like 38 was a made up number of cyclists…
Just like the population of Panama is not 3.8m as stated during a WC game yesterday..
More than 100bn is the birth figure…
More than 4m is the population of Panama…
22
Puckish, I have to admit I am starting to find you amusing, which I think is good given we have such different views…………………
Your singing rendition was something else and all I can say is you’ve got it bad (i.e. your crush on Judith)…………
Seriously though, tell me what the appeal is?
Because for me she crossed such a big line over the Orivida saga and her relationship with Cam Slater. I would urge you to read Dirty Politics.
I’ve always been attracted to strong, intelligent, confident women and I assure you it has nothing to with Jude being one of the lefts Bete Noires 🙂
UPDATE
Gayford’s tweet shows PM still waiting.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12074417
Very interesting reading.
Poll result on all-party action on climate change.
Quite a few commentators on this site would appear out of touch with the majority on this one.
https://horizonpoll.co.nz/page/510/majority-support-all-party-action-on-climate-change?gtid=8329406818137LIT
Well, well, well. The Terracotta Turdface has finally managed to upset the evangelicals. But possibly not enough for them to rethink their support.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/19/family-separations-evangelicals-ralph-reed-654094
“Evangelical leader Franklin Graham, son of Billy Graham and a prominent Trump supporter, told the Christian Broadcasting Network last week that the practice was “disgraceful, and it’s terrible to see families ripped apart and I don’t support that one bit.”
Days later, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops condemned the practice on anti-abortion grounds.
“This decision negates decades of precedents that have provided protection to women fleeing domestic violence,” conference President Daniel Cardinal DiNardo wrote June 13. “Unless overturned, the decision will erode the capacity of asylum to save lives.””
tronald dump will be feeling the heat now – slowly rising towards him and what’s that fucken brimstone smell???
Good morning The AM Show All the best to Jacinda and Clarke with the start of the birth of their first moko. trump has buckle under the pressure of te tangata of Papatuanukue to change the policy’s on America boarders Ka pai ECO MAORI will wait and see exactly what he does before I give him credit for the changes to this unhumane policy of taking mokos from there parents.
Many thanks to the AM Show for advocating responsibilities drinking of That killer drug Alcohol. I propose that there are adverts that show te Mokopunas that there are many consequences to drinking to much alcohol one mite die end up in the hinaki / jail most people have done dumb shit while drinking alcohol get the stuff out of OUR supermarkets have bottle stores close at 9 pm many ideas to make axcess to alcohol harder.
It looks like dancing with the stars is just a show that is used to premote the political act party the last time the show ran it promoted rodney hide he’s retired from politics now and this show its all about david seenothing /seymour that’s what I see.
Duncan you have seen for yourself what happened when people put bullshit spinning out about you.
Ka kite ano
The sandflys are playing up in Auckland there is a phenomenon that plays out when they do this and it – – – for ECO MAORI. Here some music link
Ka kite ano
Here you go this is the attitude /racial discrimination some have for tangata whenua of Atoearoa. The word BRO discription in the oxford nz dictionary its shocking and Maori culture tangata deserve a apologie over this other forum of suppression of Maori. I get pissed off when some people use the word BRO as a joke they manly white people think Maori people are to dumb to pick up there smart ass put down of you as if they are the only ones blessed with intelligence MUPPETS heres the link below
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/104883252/racist-definition-of-the-word-bro-hurtful-and-untrue-woman-says P.S Te whole of Papatuanukue is starting to use Bro in a positive way now Ana to kai Ka kite ano
Here a link to show the sandflys behaviour link below.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12075313
Ka kite ano