"The combination of an impressive and rapid vaccine uptake, together with mask mandates, contact tracing and isolation requirements as well as vaccination entry permits, has largely been credited for containing the outbreak and keeping case numbers low."
Evidence that the "traffic light" system may work for us.
So long as the anti-vacc, anti-mask, anti-restrictions, let her rip minority, don't fuck it up for us.
Yeah I am over the people who shit this all up for the rest of us.
I wonder… would the anti-vax anti-mask anti-mandate people have been the anti-conscription conscience objectors of past decades? I think not. They would have hung drawn and quartered the conscience objector…
I often put the mandated conscription / conscience objector point to anti people and they just look back at me with blank ignorance…
Sure. My point was more about the mandated nature of conscription, than a comparison of conshies and antis. Not very well expressed on my part. The antis are not like the conshies at all – different planets.
The antis stop in their tracks when I raise the conscription point. It shows up their shallowing thinking and understanding imo
Ivermectin was being investigated as a potential anti-viral well before C19 which is why the original Monash University team trialed it as a potential treatment in the first place and continue to work on it.
Since then there have been reasonably strong clinical signals that when used correctly it may have a benefit. And meta-studies that combine these results seem to confirm this signal.
We also now have a reasonable idea of the mechanism by which it could act against viral replication.
Does it really work? That's something that's yet to be definitively answered, which is why more than a few entities continue to spend some serious money getting to an irrefutable yes or no. Even if there is only a remote chance the answer is yes – a cheap, safe and effective treatment would be of immense value.
On the other hand – right from the get go you knew the answer for certain. It wasn't a vaccine therefore it could not work.
In reality I've barely if at all, mentioned ivermectin. You are putting words in my mouth again.
Awaiting the results of definitive trials.
It may, or may not be of use after infection. Which is yet to be determined.
The mystery is why so many advocate for ivermectin, which I agree should be trialled, along with the many other treatments that may be useful, some already proven more effective than ivermectin, instead of a treatment that has been proven safe and effective over millions of doses. Not just “clinical indications”. Real life statistical population wide evidence. And helps prevent both infection and reducing severity.
instead of a treatment that has been proven safe and effective over millions of doses.
I lined up for my vaccination not because I though this brand new mRNA technology was well proven, or we had all the data available, or that it was going to eliminate C19, or that I thought the people promoting it are entirely trustworthy – but because sometimes in a crisis you have to do things that aren't all that attractive.
The idea that the vaccine is not "well proven" After millions of doses where serious symptoms and transmission has been reduced for millions, compared with large "control groups", of the unvaccinated, that countries such as the USA have kindly provided, is frankly ludicrous. Or that a technology that has been researched since the 70's based on a medical advance from the 1700's, is "new"! You don't have to have "faith" in big Pharma to accept real world evidence, which is now so extensive as to make the initial trials almost irrevelent.
The real worry is those huge reserviours of unvaccinated, combined with vaccinated people in insufficient numbers, will result in vaccine resistant and/or accelerated mutations, before we have enough people vaccinated worldwide to slow the spread.
I linked to Sydney earlier. High levels of vaccination, masking and restrictions on the unvaccinated appear to be working, despite loosening lock down rules.
You got your vaccine out of "duty". You didn't join the unvaccinated. Despite your reservations.
At risk of falling out with both parties 🙂 I'd like to congratulate RedLogix in that succinct yet comprehensive statement ("I lined up for my vaccination…") which describes my position so very well, but also shout out to KJT who's describing the frustration around Ivermectin (about which the two of you seem to have similar views) and why it has been so passionately and uncritically championed by "the antivaxx crowd" – my own face to face discussions with such folk/friends leaves me lost for words; their vehement support/opposition to either the Pfizer vax or Ivermectin defies rational discussion and therein lies the bewilderment and head-shaking irritation.
The real worry is those huge reserviours of unvaccinated, combined with vaccinated people in insufficient numbers, will result in vaccine resistant and/or accelerated mutations,
Given that C19 cases are still very present in highly vaccinated populations – I'm not at all sure this logic holds up.
Equally likely is the idea that the virus will simply respond to vaccinations as just another evolutionary selection pressure and mutate to escape them. It's hard to blame the unvaxxed for that.
As Covid cases are in the hundreds in vaccinated populations, compared to in the thousands in unvaccinated populations, the evolutionary pressure in vaccinated populations is considerably less. Making the chances of mutations less, by at least an order of magnitude, also. It is all a numbers game.
Would Chris Trotter's latest help? I doubt it 🙂 (Great read though)
"A vast international crisis, the Covid-19 Pandemic, has exposed the irrational underbelly of twenty-first century society. Neuroses and delusions that the majority had reluctantly tolerated (if only because the harm they caused was almost exclusively restricted to those who suffered from them) now threaten the general welfare.
If the violent prejudices of the Jim Crow South, echoing through contemporary struggles, teach us anything, it is that the defence of rationality, science and progressivism must never be allowed to falter. Those pre-modern night-riders, filled with unrelenting hate, are still out there. If the troops of Reason and Justice are withdrawn; if Liberty’s bayonets are sheathed; there will be Hell to pay."
I understood that Ivermectin and the vaccine are/were used at different stages. Vaccine is a preventative against developing full blown Covid. Ivermectin when it is used, and possibly is useful, is at the very start of a Covid infection. It is no use once Covid has left the body but the results of it having been there such as lung problems, kidney problems, covid pneumonia are remaining.
There are some people taking Ivermectin and high doses of vitamins, Hydroxychloroquine, bleach sprays etc as a preventative. Not sure they are effective at all.
Since then there have been reasonably strong clinical signals that when used correctly it may have a benefit. And meta-studies that combine these results seem to confirm this signal.
Perfectly put … cautiously optimistic is the most rational stance given the current evidence. Unfortunately the unhinged hyper-politicisation of Covid means that an innocent drug like Ivermectin that has benefited millions of people worldwide with parasitical diseases has been personified with the face of Donald Trump, & more broadly of US Republican-voting & British Brexit-supporting "deplorables" & various assorted anti-vaxxers.
If Ivermectin does indeed prove to be effective … then tough shit for all those who would've survived … but then again, to be scrupulously fair, petty politically-partisan point-scoring for purely narcissistic objectives is far more important than the potential prevention of millions of deaths.
Just as the vaccine is said to have been vindicated by its millions of doses , so has ivermectin in its millions of doses against covid in Indian regions like Uttar Pradesh.
There is really such a bias and unwillingness to take note of what has been successful in countries other than European
Well no. We haven't been ignoring it. Just that the evidence that ivermectin worked in India is being questioned, by Indian epidemiologists amoungst others.
“The claim that Uttar Pradesh is now COVID-19 free due to the use of ivermectin is inaccurate and unsupported by scientific evidence. Uttar Pradesh isn’t entirely free of COVID-19, and comparisons with other states are challenging due to differences in testing capacity. Furthermore, many factors other than ivermectin use could have influenced the course of the second COVID-19 wave in Uttar Pradesh, including restrictions and immunity from previous infection and vaccination”.
KJT deleted his post saying that Kyle Rittenhouse (white) shot black people which got me thinking about this post.
See Kyle Rittenhouse (white) shot three white people.
There were no black people shot.
I assumed that people commenting on this case would also know this basic fact yet I guess your comment makes more since if you also thought Kyle shot black people, is that what you thought?
Does it make you wonder what else the msm told you about this case that is not actually the case?
Does it make you wonder what else the msm lies to you about?
The only possible interpretation of your question about reversal is, given that they are all white, "If a white man had shot three white men would the verdict have been different". In other words you are asking what would have happened if nothing had changed. That is the "reversal" of the colour of the parties in this case. Trying to pretend that changing a colour from "white" to "black" is a reversal is ridiculous. What would you call a change from "yellow" to "brown" which of course are both loosely considered to be skin colours?
When you claim that you "knew" they were all white I don't believe you. If you "knew" that you wouldn't have proposed such a silly question. Unless you were an idiot of course. Are you?
You deleted it because you didn't know so you deleted it because you didn't want to look like a chump.
'However, takes a gun to a protest looking for a fight, then shoots three people.'
Please provide proof that he was 'looking for a fight'
'And he knew they may have been convicted criminals when he administered, “justice”?'
He didn't but I just want to make sure everybody knows the type of people they're defending, the type of people at these 'peaceful protests'
'And. The Black reference is correct. What would have happened to a Black man who just shot three people, and wandered towards US cops holding a rifle?'
I'll spin that round, could a white man digitally rape a woman, have an open warrant for sexual assault, ignore police warnings, shake off a taser, kidnap a child, steal a car, get shot and be praised by the media, politicians of both sides of the house and have people riot on his behalf
I'm seeing a lot of ignorance and misinformation flying around about what happened in Kenosha, and I'm going to set the record straight from a professional legal position… as well as from a former military position. I'm going to explain some things from a more technical angle derived from my many years as a paralegal and from my experience working in federal criminal justice and prosecution.
Legally, if you are in the process of a commission of a crime, it negates your ability to claim self defense if you kill someone. As in, it can't even be entered as your official defense in court. It is similar to getting rear-ended at a red light through zero fault of your own, but you were driving without a license or insurance. It automatically makes you at fault because you weren't even legally allowed to be driving.
But he is too blinded by his projection on someone, who has fulfilled his Rambo fantasy of "running around shooting the bad guys" and getting away with it!
'Hours before closing arguments began on Monday, Judge Bruce Schroeder granted a defense motion to toss out the weapons charge. Rittenhouse attorneys Mark Richards and Corey Chirafisi pointed to an exception in the law that they said allows minors to possess shotguns and rifles as long as they’re not short-barreled.'
'Assistant District Attorney James Kraus argued that the exception renders the state’s prohibition on minors possessing dangerous weapons meaningless. But when he acknowledged that Rittenhouse’s rifle’s barrel was longer than 16 inches, the minimum barrel length allowed under state law, Schroeder dismissed the charge.'
'This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 …” That section of law isn’t specific to minors, but rather forbids any person from having a short-barreled shotgun or rifle.'
Heres another link to the NPR, I'll assume you've heard of them, you might find it educational:
'The state's own witnesses at times helped Rittenhouse's case'
'Prosecutors called more than a dozen witnesses to help make their case. But legal experts said that, at times, those witnesses seemed to bolster Rittenhouse's self-defense claim.'
'The state called two men who had accompanied Rittenhouse that night, also intending to help protect private property. Both witnesses, Ryan Balch and Jason Lackowski, said Rosenbaum asked to be shot and "false-stepped" armed men in an attempt to provoke a reaction. One described him as "hyperaggressive."
You wanted me to see his statement from last year.
Why?
To point out how inaccurate it is.
I've previously posted links, with proof and evidence that refutes most of what he says.
So yeah I read it and hes wrong.. Happy?
Fine lets go through it, again, and see why we should wait for all the evidence to come out before someone tries to make a name for themselves.
'I'm seeing a lot of ignorance and misinformation flying around about what happened in Kenosha, and I'm going to set the record straight from a professional legal position… as well as from a former military position.'
– His opinion, as proven in the trial, is mostly incorrect
I'm going to explain some things from a more technical angle derived from my many years as a paralegal and from my experience working in federal criminal justice and prosecution.
– His opinion, as proven in the trial, is mostly incorrect
Legally, if you are in the process of a commission of a crime, it negates your ability to claim self defense if you kill someone.
– His opinion, as proven in the trial, is mostly incorrect so I want him to link to Wisconsin law to verify this.
As in, it can't even be entered as your official defense in court. It is similar to getting rear-ended at a red light through zero fault of your own, but you were driving without a license or insurance. It automatically makes you at fault because you weren't even legally allowed to be driving.
– Kyle Rittenhouse was shown to be threatened, chased and attacked
That 17 year old in Kenosha had committed two crimes and was not even legally allowed to open carry the rifle he used to shoot three people. This means that he legally cannot claim self defense.
– His opinion, as proven in the trial, is mostly incorrect. As proven in the trial he was legally allowed to carry his weapon and his weapon was legal so please tell me the crimes he committed. Innocent until proven guilty remember.
Another key discussion is the Castle Doctrine. Some of you may be vaguely familiar with it, as it is what allows you to use deadly force when someone comes into your house unlawfully, etc. But there are some finer points most people don't realize that you generally have to do some formal legal studies to know.
– The defence didn't use Castle Doctrine
First, as soon as someone sets foot inside the threshold of your home uninvited that you believe intends to commit a crime, you can legally use deadly force and it is immediately considered self defense, even if they haven't made any violent threats or actions towards harming you.
– The defence didn't use Castle Doctrine
This is because in every instance outside your home, you are required to retreat and extricate yourself from a dangerous situation if possible. It is a legal mandate, not a suggestion. Your home is considered the final retreat point, and legally you should be safe in your "Castle." There is nowhere else to retreat to, etc. This is why you are able to immediately use deadly force.
– The defence still didn't use Castle Doctrine
However, it is NOT to protect your property, it is for protecting your LIFE. And once the burglar, for instance, has left your home… the threat to your life is considered neutralized, and deadly force is no longer authorized. So if a burglar runs out the door and down the street with your TV, you are no longer allowed to shoot after them because they are not threatening your life. You call the police, you file a claim with your insurance, and you get a new TV. If you shoot a burglar in the back down the street, you can and should be charged with murder.
– Once again the defence didn't use Castle Doctrine
While you are out in PUBLIC, this means a lot of things obviously. It means that there is far more scrutiny and boxes that must be checked in order to claim self defense. You must be in IMMINENT danger of losing life and limb. Getting into an argument and feeling scared of being punched by an unarmed person? Not likely to be a situation where deadly force is authorized. You MUST retreat.
– Kyle tried to retreat, was chased, his rifle was grabbed at, he was threatened, he was attacked and he had a pistol aimed at him
If someone shoots at you or pulls a knife on you in the street, that is deadly force and can be met with deadly force. But if the person is unarmed, you cannot shoot them because you're afraid of a little scuffle. That is why Rittenhouse illegally shot the first protester, and it is one of the many reasons it cannot be considered self defense. The man threw a plastic bag with trash in it at him AND MISSED, and Rittenhouse shot him. He chased his victim and instigated a fight by brandishing and flagging people with his rifle, because he is an untrained idiot with a gun. The protester was not a threat, and even if he was, all he had to do was retreat back to the police line. He rushed at protesters with a gun drawn to pick a fight, and people are acting as if he were just there to keep the peace.
– 'Little scuffle' He was hit twice with a skateboard, was kicked in the head and had a pistol aimed at him. He also tried to get back to the police, he didn't rush at the protestors and yes you can shoot someone unarmed depending on the circumstances as proven in the trial
He fired INTO A CROWD, and it's a miracle he didn't hit more people. More people that hadn't thrown a plastic bag. More people that were just trying to protest police brutality, which is a real issue in this country.
– He didn't fire INTO A CROWD. He fired in self-defence at the people attempting to harm him, as proven in the trial and on video
And then when he did finally run away, some more protesters attempted to subdue him after he had already murdered someone, he tripped, and shot two people trying to stop him from shooting others.
– He was attempting to run away previously. Also his opinion, again.
The fact that the police didn't arrest him and take him into custody right then and there, even if they suspected it could be self defense, is a grave issue with that police department.
– His opinion, again.
I could further dissect this situation, but for now I'm going to end with people passing around misinformation about the victims being "criminals so they deserved it."
– I suggest he does, especially in the light of the trials findings
First, there are no actual records of Jacob Blake or the people shot by Rittenhouse being in the official sex offender's registry.
– I have not just linked to that?
None of them raped a 14 year old girl years ago, that is complete fabrication being purposely spread by right wing extremist sites in order to try and justify the shootings.
– I've not heard anything about this but Joseph did anally rape young boys
– I took the paragraph of Jacob Blake out because its a separate issue
Rittenhouse's victims do not appear to have had any record, and even if they did, he couldn't have known that at the time.
– Oh yes they did, very much so
You cannot insist a shoot was justified AFTER the fact because "that person was a criminal."
– You can't and I agree however but I'm also not going to shed any tears over a child rapist that got shot while attacking another underage boy (Kyle was 17 at the time)
Criminals have rights too, whether you like it or not, and it is enshrined in the very documents that built our country. If you don't like the constitution and bill of rights, I don't know what to tell you.
– You mean like Kyle Rittenhouse being innocent until proven guilty even though you say he isn't?
This is also not MY OPINION, this is literally how the criminal justice system and our laws work. I hold a degree in paralegal studies and served 8 years as an Army paralegal. I've worked for the criminal division in the Chicago US Attorney's Office, and currently work in federal law enforcement. This is what I do for a living, and I am not pulling this out of my ass, and my knowlege is a culmination of working in the field and being passionate about justice for 16 years. I'd be happy to send you sources and opines and case law and statutes if you need it. I did not get this from "mainstream media," and I am not brainwashed by the left. I'm an independent progressive.
– Considering how wrong he is about this maybe thats why hes not a lawyer
May he face justice for what he did, and may we find a way to get on common ground before more fuses to this powder keg are lit.
– He had a trial and the video evidence, laws of the state, drone footage and witness testimony proved he was innocent of all charges so yes he faced justice.
your own long comments are fine, it's just copying from offsite to here at length that is the problem. For people on phones, and because debate is between our ideas, and it creates problems if someone has to read a long article to understand the point being made.
(also, see if you can make the quotation clearer, because it's possible I deleted some of your own words by mistake. The quote button is good, or use double "" because they're more visible. You need something at the start and the end that clearly show it's a quote. Back in the day we used to do this
Hi Robert, thanks for the links, although they are broken. From any FB page, click on the time/date stamp of the post you want to link to. Then cut and paste the address from the URL field.
As with PR's comment below, I deleted most of the quote. A snip or two, an explanation and a link for those that want to read more is the preferred commenting style here.
This makes things easier for people on phones, and it encourages people to make clear arguments rather than expecting people to read long articles to parse what is being said.
It would be more interesting if those debating me…actually could.
Given how much information people posted on this subject was wrong and was proven wrong and since they got it from their preferred news sources, do you think any of them will work out that maybe their preferred news source is lying to them and that you might want to expand their horizons, just a little?
I haven't been following that closely. If that's the issue (you think they are wrong in what they're using as a source), maybe just pick one or two examples and focus on those. Fisking is sometimes necessary, but makes it hard to find resolutions or move things forward.
How it normally goes is something like this, he chuckleheads come on say something, usually wrong, I tell them they're wrong with a link to why they're wrong
They come back later, won't acknowledge they're wrong but move onto something else really minor and I prove them wrong, gain, and so on and so on
Its not often I'm 100% correct, that I have the moral high ground, backed up by proof and evidence (and links) and what are these guys reduced to…
Sticking up for child rapists and domestic abusers
If the skin colours were reversed what would the outcome of the trial have been?
There wouldn’t have been a verdict because there wouldn’t have been a trial because a black guy wouldn’t have made it through the police lines that Rittenhouse walked past after shooting three people.
So you are suggesting he was a police operative of some kind? With some sort of pre-arranged signal that all the cops would recognise in a fleeting instant?
My reasoning is that it’s more likely everything on Twitter is deep fake.
Good to see you supporting a white supremacist, racist, homophobic thug who likes to gun down civil rights protesters.
And you work as a prison guard, around a population that is predominantly Maori.
I don't think we in the West have any right to complain about human rights in China with fascists like you working in our prisons. I bet you would would to the same as Rittenhouse and Chauvin did if you had the chance.
Some time ago, you said you got a job as a prison guard.
The fact is, that you supported Chauvin and you would have killed Floyd if you were in that position. I think you are an evil depraved man and shouldn't be working anywhere in prisons or law enforcement.
Millsy called the men shot: 'civil rights protesters', they may have been
I called them a sodomiser of young boys, domestic abusers and convicted felons, which they were
Not saying they deserved death for it but if you're going to paint them in a certain way, which you can't prove, I'll say what they really were, which I can prove.
Absolutely Millsy, that's terrifying, a prison guard in NZ has these attitudes? I'm appalled. Rittenhouse had no right to carry a gun, travelled to another state uninvited, shat himself when confronted, and murdered 2 people, and you come onto a left leaning site to congratulate the wanker? You're really something man, pitiful.
"Rittenhouse had nothe right to carry a gun, travelled 20 minutesto another state uninvited, shat himself when confronted, and murdered 2 people were killed in self-defence as the evidence showed and you come onto a left leaning site to congratulate the wanker?the verdict. You're really something man, pitiful."
I've edited your comment to remove unsubstantiated claims, or emotive language and it reads differently.
PR wilfully chose a contentious way to raise the issue, I agree. But thanks to millsy's initial jibe about Greenwald, I have looked into it, and found the video evidence that the jury considered in the self-defence, and accepted.
The justice system (which I believe to be flawed in many ways, but that is by-the-by here) should endeavour to convict on points of law. In this case, the prosecution's case did not hold up, for reasons not reported by the majority of the media.
The ability to carry arms is another legal right I have an issue with, but it is legal in many states in the USA.
A while back Corrections (or the government) decided that a change of direction was needed.
The old days of locking prisoners up and giving them hidings was a bad thing.
As part of the implementation to cut down on the rate of reoffending Corrections brought out some changes, part of it was to change prison guards (which also has very negative connotations) to Corrections Officers
This is done because thats what management want to have happens, correct prisoners behaviour.
Its only a very small piece of a very big puzzle but I think its important
He purposefully went looking for trouble, he sought it out. Legally he might have got off but morally, he's going to have a lot to live with. Hopefully, he gets taken to the cleaners in a wrongful death suit.
'He purposefully went looking for trouble, he sought it out. Legally he might have got off but morally, he's going to have a lot to live with. Hopefully, he gets taken to the cleaners in a wrongful death suit.'
See thats the MSM talking.
He didn't go looking for trouble, he had a weapon for self-defence and everything he did was legal.
Legal carry, legal weapon. Legal everything.
You know who wasn't doing everything legal, the protestors illegally rioting, the men (multiple) who assaulted Kyle (video footage), the man who threatened Kyle (prosecutions own witness), the man who aimed his pistol at Kyle (illegal ownership of firearm)
'Do you think it's a good idea for untrained people to legally head off to a trouble hot spot carrying firearms??'
How do you know he wasn't trained?
In extreme circumstances he fired 8 shots (including two warning shots) and killed two and wounded one
By anyones reckoning thats impressive, just look at any of the police shootings to see how that stacks up
However I don't think he should have been there BUT thats me, I'm not in that city, my workplace wasn't under attack, I wasn't worried about my father
Kyle did nothing illegal, the rioters did, the people who attacked him chose to attack him, Kyle tried to get away and only fired after he was left with no other option
You are aware that Kyle was legally allowed to carry his rifle while one of the people he shot was illeglly carrying a pistol and Kyle only shot him once he raised the pistol and aimed at Kyle
He came from a different state. He wasn't a local out to protect the property (yes, he wanted to protect property) of people he knew, he knew noone there. All he did was heed the call of social media, a social media that had as its goal to harm Black people.
Have you actually followed the case at all? All you've done is read a few headlines.
'He came from a different state.'
Please explain to me what coming from different state have to do with anything.
Because I'd bet money that not all the rioters come from Kenosha, that some would have had to 'cross state lines' to get there or is this something you've heard from the msm and it sounds ominous?
'he knew noone there'
1. He travelled approximately15 miles to get there
2. He worked in Kenosha.
3. He has family and friends living in Kenosha
'All he did was heed the call of social media, a social media that had as its goal to harm Black people.'
He only shot white people, after he was threatened and assaulted.
Stuart should remember Helen Clark's little error of this kind. It cost the taxpayer $55,000 when she called someone a murderer. He had been convicted of manslaughter but not murder. This person wasn't convicted of anything.
It may astonish you to know this PR, but courts are not infallible. You may or may not be aware of the work of The Innocence Project, which works to correct errors made at the other end of the scale, wrongful convictions.
What makes someone a murderer is their act of wrongful killing, and, irrespective of the findings of what even you must admit was a highly politicized case, it looks on the face of it very much like Rittenhouse behaved like a vigilante, dispensing Hollywood justice in his own right.
Rittenhouse seems likely, like OJ Simpson, to attract a degree of scepticism for the rest of his life – assuming the prosecution do not successfully appeal.
You have to stop getting your information from outlets like CNN.
Heres some facts for you may or may not know. This is based on what other people on this site thought.
Kyle did not take a rifle over state lines
Kyle works in Kenosha
Kyle has family in Kenosha
He did not carry an assault rifle
He was legally carrying a legal firearm.
The crowd turned on Kyle when he put out a fire
The child sodomiser and domestic abuser was armed with a chain, threatened Kyles life, chased after Kyle and tried to take his rifle away before Kyle defended himself
The child sodomiser and domestic abuser also quite liberally used the N word
The multiple domestic abuser attacked Kyle and hit him with the skateboard, twice, before Kyle defended himself
Jump Kick mans latest charge is domestic abuse, almost like theres a pattern
The last guy Kyle shot had an illegal pistol, had a felony charge of drunk in charge of a weapon and Kyle only shot him when he raised and aimed the pistol at Kyle.
The prosecutions own witnesses back this up, official drone footage backs this up and smart phone coverage backs this up.
Your faith in the integrity of US courts is touching, but misplaced. Rittenhouse is in some respects a victim of US dysfunctional gun culture.
Try looking at more than one source for information
They are not needed. One shooting might be happenstance, two coincidence, but three is unequivocally enemy action. Rittenhouse set out to kill people, and that's what he did.
The fact that you are fanboying a murderous child that should be in jail ought to have you thinking long and hard instead of crowing your inanity from the rooftops.
I don't know, and you don't know, the truth of the allegations of child molestation – but Rittenhouse did not murder those men to protect children from such abuse, he did so after the fact, when judgment should have been left to the apparatus of the state.
Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there, he shouldn't have been armed with a military weapon, and were he innocent he would have surrendered himself to police after killing his first victim.
I'm not interested in the excuses nor the prodigies of self deception you have to perform to justify the judicial whitewash. Rittenhouse walked through police lines because police didn't want to stop him, and the prosecution failed because it was never intended to succeed.
'Joseph Don Rosenbaum lived in Kenosha. He had an open case for misdemeanor bail jumping that was filed on July 30, 2020.'
The conditions of bond read: “Not to Possess or Consume Alcohol. *Not To Possess or Consume Controlled Substances w/o a Prescription. No contact including the residence, electronic or 3rd party with: Kariann S, Park Ridge Inn.”
Rosenbaum also had open misdemeanor cases for battery (domestic abuse) and disorderly conduct (domestic abuse).
Court documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape, masturbation, oral sex, and showing minors pornography. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal. See those documents here.'
'Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there'
Maybe he should, maybe he shouldn't but he had every legal right to be there, unlike the rioters so that is a pointless statement.
'he shouldn't have been armed with a military weapon'
Another strait up lie, which I've covered previously. He had an AR-15 type rifle. Legal. Not a military weapon.
'and were he innocent he would have surrendered himself to police after killing his first victim.'
You really are a dumb, arrogant dick head. Where do you think Kyle was running when he was being chased, the police is where you was running to you fucking asshole.
Why are you arguing this case when you don't know the first thing about it,
Try reading it unless you think NPR is a right wing organisation but really all you need to know is here:
"Mr. Rosenbaum was chasing me. I pointed my gun at him, and that did not deter him. He could have ran away instead of trying to take my gun from me, but he kept chasing me. It didn't stop him," Rittenhouse testified last week.'
'Afterward, Rittenhouse ran away toward a police line, he said during the trial. While he was running, several people started to chase him, including Huber and Grosskreutz. Huber struck Rittenhouse with a skateboard, evidence showed, and Grosskreutz was armed with a Glock pistol.'
Do you get that Stuart? He was running to the police BEFORE he was forced to shoot a child rapist
After he shot a child rapist he CONTINUED to run to the police.
Right back at you, vigilante fanboy. Though you deny it – the child molestation was not occurring when Rittenhouse murdered the man you claim had that background – you must find another reason to exculpate Rittenhouse – he was NOT defending children from abuse.
Maybe he should, maybe he shouldn't but he had every legal right to be there, unlike the rioters so that is a pointless statement.
I think you'll find they had every legal right to be there also – just not to riot – but let us not pretend your argument is in any way rational – you exculpate Rittenhouse, not because he is innocent, which he manifestly is not, but because he took up arms against a group protesting the abuse of police power. For some reason you believe in noble cause corruption and qualified immunity – it is this that moves you to forgive Rittenhouse. Perhaps you expect to need qualified immunity yourself at some point.
Another strait up lie, which I've covered previously. He had an AR-15 type rifle. Legal. Not a military weapon.
When you are reduced to abuse, my little cabbage, it is because you have already lost.
"Mr. Rosenbaum was chasing me. I pointed my gun at him, and that did not deter him. He could have ran away instead of trying to take my gun from me, but he kept chasing me. It didn't stop him," Rittenhouse testified last week.'
No doubt Mr Rosenbaum, having watched Rittenhouse murder a fellow citizen, meant to disarm him, in the interests of public safety.
'Right back at you, vigilante fanboy. Though you deny it – the child molestation was not occurring when Rittenhouse murdered the man you claim had that background – you must find another reason to exculpate Rittenhouse – he was NOT defending children from abuse.'
You were lying when you said "I don't know, and you don't know, the truth of the allegations of child molestation" because I have posted many links to Josephs criminal record.
Do you deny this?
My pointing out that the child anal rapist is a child anal rapist is to counter the claims that hes a peaceful, civil rights protester, also why I posted footage of him using the N-word
Maybe he should, maybe he shouldn't but he had every legal right to be there, unlike the rioters so that is a pointless statement.
'I think you'll find they had every legal right to be there also – just not to riot –'
Thank you for proving my point. Protest yes but rioting no and they were rioting.
'but let us not pretend your argument is in any way rational – you exculpate Rittenhouse, not because he is innocent, which he manifestly is not,'
Theres the arrogance, the evidence was shown, the witness heard from and the footage watched but you, Stuart Munro, have decided that the verdict is wrong, even though you didn't follow the trial.
'but because he took up arms against a group protesting the abuse of police power.'
Again as shown by footage and prosecutor testimony he didn'y
'For some reason you believe in noble cause corruption and qualified immunity – it is this that moves you to forgive Rittenhouse. Perhaps you expect to need qualified immunity yourself at some point.'
I don't know exactly what it is you're implying here nor do I care to know
Another strait up lie, which I've covered previously. He had an AR-15 type rifle. Legal. Not a military weapon.
Heres the ignorance I was talking about, he had an AR-15 type, TYPE being the key word, rifle.'
You think you can jump on google and find a link to prove your point. I've been dealing with people like you (ignorant and arrogant) for a very long time.
As you yourself stated the AR-15 was developed by Armalite as a military rifle. Fact.
But Kyle was not carrying a military Armalite AR-15. Fact
He was carrying a legal, civilian, Smith & Wesson AR-15 style rifle. Fact
You know virtually nothing about firearms. Fact.
I use links to show proof to others of what I already know. Fact.
You use links because you don't know. Fact.
Now I know what you're going to say next. Yes accuracy in trials matters and yes there is a difference, allow me to explain:
Heres the Trekka, looks like a Land Rover but is not the same thing as a Land Rover
Statement of fact, proven by facts previously and below
"Mr. Rosenbaum was chasing me. I pointed my gun at him, and that did not deter him. He could have ran away instead of trying to take my gun from me, but he kept chasing me. It didn't stop him," Rittenhouse testified last week.'
'No doubt Mr Rosenbaum, having watched Rittenhouse murder a fellow citizen, meant to disarm him, in the interests of public safety.'
Heres the reason why I called you dumb. Had you followed the trial you would know that the first person Kyle shot was Joseph Rosenbaum so please explain to me how 'Mr Rosenbaum' watched Kyle shoot someone in self-defence when 'Mr Rosenbaum' was the first person Kyle shot.
Also you're assuming what the noted child rapist and domestic abuser (noted to show how violent he is and how he lacks empathy) was thinking whereas I on the other hand am going off what 'Mr Rosenbaum' said previously in the night when he said if he saw Kyle alone he would kill him
Gosh you're full of yourself – and it is unbecoming in a moral teenager, a prating knave who endorses vigilantism.
My pointing out that the child anal rapist is a child anal rapist is to counter the claims that hes a peaceful, civil rightsprotester
Ah, so defaming the victim to lessen the gravity of Rittenhouse's murder formed no part of your motivation? The mens rea is so thick you're soaking in it.
An AR15 is a military firearm, no matter how you may try to deny it – and therein lies much of its appeal to deranged vigilantes. The technicality you're trying to push is less than wafer thin – it simply isn't substantial enough to support the nonsense you are trying to hang from it. Had your argument broad legitimacy you would not be constantly reduced to grasping at such flimsy technicalities.
Thank you for proving my point. Protest yes but rioting no and they were rioting.
Well someone would have to, because you couldn't sustain an argument through a wet paper bag. But of course Rittenhouse's rights are likewise curtailed when he presents that firearm, threatens to kill, does in fact kill, and so on.
He was running to the police BEFORE he was forced to shoot a child rapist
He was running to the police having threatened a civilian with a weapon, and failed to deter him. The child molestation is just your post facto get out of jail free card.
'Gosh you're full of yourself – and it is unbecoming in a moral teenager, a prating knave who endorses vigilantism.'
– Being that I'm the one linking to evidence, testimony, video evidence, drone evidence and factual information and at no point have I endorsed vigilantism (please find proof where I did, shouldn't be too hard to locate) I'll take what you say with a reasonably large grain of salt
My pointing out that the child anal rapist is a child anal rapist is to counter the claims that hes a peaceful, civil rightsprotester
'Ah, so defaming the victim to lessen the gravity of Rittenhouse's murder formed no part of your motivation?'
– What a stupid thing to say, as the trial proved Kyle is not a murderer.
The mens rea is so thick you're soaking in it.
– I'll point you towards the trial, its outcomes and the evidence
An AR15 is a military firearm, no matter how you may try to deny it – and therein lies much of its appeal to deranged vigilantes.
– The AR-15 (without getting too technical) is the civilian variant of the M4. It is legally sold to civilians because it can only be fired in semi-automatic mode.
'The technicality you're trying to push is less than wafer thin – it simply isn't substantial enough to support the nonsense you are trying to hang from it.'
– Facts matter, you don't like it but facts matter. He was carrying a legal, AR-15 type rifle. As you yourself said AR-15 is a military rifle made by the Armalite company.
– Kyle was carrying a Smith and Wesson AR-15 TYPE rifle, completely legal.
'Had your argument broad legitimacy you would not be constantly reduced to grasping at such flimsy technicalities.'
– Sorry if I think accuracy is important in a murder trial
Thank you for proving my point. Protest yes but rioting no and they were rioting.
'Well someone would have to, because you couldn't sustain an argument through a wet paper bag.'
– Interestingly enough my arguments are quite similar to the defences, yours are similar to the prosecutions
– Kyle found, correctly, not guilty, funny that. also from NPR since you must have missed it earlier (probably deliberately):
My pointing out that the child anal rapist is a child anal rapist is to counter the claims that hes a peaceful, civil rightsprotester
'Ah, so defaming the victim to lessen the gravity of Rittenhouse's murder formed no part of your motivation?'
– What a stupid thing to say, as the trial proved Kyle is not a murderer. T
he trial proved nothing of the sort.
The mens rea is so thick you're soaking in it.
– I'll point you towards the trial,
Having no rational argument to support your contentions.
An AR15 is a military firearm, no matter how you may try to deny it – and therein lies much of its appeal to deranged vigilantes.
– The AR-15 (without getting too technical) is the civilian variant of the M4. It is legally sold to civilians because it can only be fired in semi-automatic mode.
'The technicality you're trying to push is less than wafer thin – it simply isn't substantial enough to support the nonsense you are trying to hang from it.'
– Facts matter, you don't like it but facts matter. He was carrying a legal, AR-15 type rifle. As you yourself said AR-15 is a military rifle made by the Armalite company.
– Kyle was carrying a Smith and Wesson AR-15 TYPE rifle, completely legal.
red herring – the legality of the weapon is not in dispute the AR15 or AR15 styled rifle remains the weapon of choice for vigilantes such as the Christchurch shooter and your latest unsavoury obsession, the murderer Rittenhouse. They are chosen because of the similarities between their design and the M16.
Yes, they no longer fire full automatic – but they were designed as a military assault rifle by a military supplier for a military customer. In most respects they are still that military assault rifle. These facts matter PR, and your determination to set them aside is consistent with the general dishonesty that means most of us don't believe a damned thing you say – links or no links.
'Had your argument broad legitimacy you would not be constantly reduced to grasping at such flimsy technicalities.'
Sorry if I think accuracy is important in a murder trial – gosh a rhetorical flourish! who'd have thought you had it in you! You're not in a murder trial PR, you're in a discussion, trying to salvage the shreds of your credibility for fanboying a vigilante, and by extension the dysfunctional US system that created him.
– Interestingly enough my arguments are quite similar to the defences, yours are similar to the prosecutions
'But of course Rittenhouse's rights are likewise curtailed when he presents that firearm, threatens to kill, does in fact kill, and so on.'
– Another lie. Kyle never threatened to kill. 'Mr Rosenbaum' had earlier in the night threatened to kill Kyle.
A presented firearm carries an implicit threat.
He was running to the police BEFORE he was forced to shoot a child rapist
He was running to the police BEFORE he chose to shoot a man he had threatened with a rifle. fixed it for you.
– Yes he was trying to get to the police. He wanted to get to the police so he wouldn't have to shoot anyone but 'Mr Rosenbaum' chased him
– Yes he was trying to get to the police. He wanted to get to the police so that he wouldn't beaten and killed by the men he had menaced with his rifle.
– Look I don't need your help
Brother, you need all the help you can get. I imagine you 'need' an AR15 'styled' rifle too.
'The child molestation is just your post facto get out of jail free card.'
– The evidence, the witnesses, the video footage, the drone footage were Kyles get out of jail card. – I imagine the gun lobby, and political parties had some influence too – but there is no mystery in Rittenhouse's release – the US plays by very different rules. It is you that need the get out of jail card, as you applaud the death by violence of a fellow human being, who, absent Rittenhouse's reckless provocation of a crowd, would probably still be alive.
Were that the case you would not have felt obliged to mention that the child molestation at every opportunity, as if it somehow made the victim
– Also 'Mr Rosenbaum' died as he lived, trying to touch an unwilling minor, unfortunately for 'Mr Rosenbaum' this minor was able to protect himself.
By shooting Rosenberg dead, together with some other members of the public – vigilantism victory! And you're smiling – so why do you imagine you escape the label vigilante fanboy? You patently are one.
I already have explained – at some length I might add – but you are either too obtuse, or too smug in your celebration of vigilantism to get it. Ultimately I suppose it is simply in accord with the rest of your sociopathic rightwing nonsense.
Well hey now its the noted expert on Wisconsin gun laws McFlock, throwing links out like hes Tiger Woods so lets just have a look at the link hes provided…
Damn dude looks like you got me with a link to ABC dated 11 Nov 21, theres no way this can be refuted.
Unless…you have a link from ABC dated 20 Nov 21, which I just happen to have:
'Hours before closing arguments began on Monday, Judge Bruce Schroeder granted a defense motion to toss out the weapons charge. Rittenhouse attorneys Mark Richards and Corey Chirafisi pointed to an exception in the law that they said allows minors to possess shotguns and rifles as long as they’re not short-barreled.'
'Assistant District Attorney James Kraus argued that the exception renders the state’s prohibition on minors possessing dangerous weapons meaningless. But when he acknowledged that Rittenhouse’s rifle’s barrel was longer than 16 inches, the minimum barrel length allowed under state law, Schroeder dismissed the charge.'
'This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 …” That section of law isn’t specific to minors, but rather forbids any person from having a short-barreled shotgun or rifle.'
Bit circular there, because apparently running around with firearms and pointing them at people is lawful and legal, and getting scared when they respond accordingly is enough excuse to lawfully and legally shoot them dead.
Oh McFlock, McFlock, McFlock, are you enjoying this spanking I'm giving you?
See the thing is you didn't follow the trial at all.
You know that I did and yet you still try to put out these proven lies.
Kyle wasn't 'running around with firearms and pointing them at people' in fact once the trouble started he tried to run away, run away to the police
The trouble started when the sodomiser of children (just so you know who you're defending) threatened Kyle saying that he'd kill him if he got him alone
This information came from the prosecutions own witness
Just what "spanking" you're doing at the moment is none of my concern.
Maybe there will be appeals, maybe civil trials. But Rittenhouse still took a gun to a riot and shot three people. Jury or not, I won't be inviting him to dinner any time soon.
As for "lies", didn't the prosecutor say that Rittenhouse pointed guns at people? Was the prosecutor "lying", too?
'Just what "spanking" you're doing at the moment is none of my concern.'
You know you like it
'Maybe there will be appeals, maybe civil trials'
Sure. Its their legal right to do so
'But Rittenhouse still took a gun to a riot and shot three people.'
But Rittenhouse still took a gun, which according to the laws of the state and decided in court that he was in the legal right to do, to a riot and shot three people.
Woah, woah, woah just a second there buddy, it wasn't a riot because riots are illegal.
I was informed by the impartial and very honest CNN that these were 'mostly peaceful' protests
Which kind of puts paid to your "He was found not guilty so hes not a murderer" thing.
By Wisconsin standards, he's not a murderer, or even a manslaughterer(? I guess that's the term). But that's not saying a huge amount. Even by US standards.
'Maybe some reasonable people could se it that way, if they squint really hard. But that depends on a generous interpretation of "reasonable"
I know right, I mean even though the video footage backed up what Kyle said, even though the prosecution witnesses backed up what Kyle said, even though the laws backed up Kyle and even though 'activists' and news outlets were trying to find out the ids of the jurors…surely only an 'unreasonable' person would find Kyle not guilty
You switched this into a discussion about reasonableness rather than the vagaries of different legal jurisdictions and their respective burdens of proof for self defense arguments. Fair enough.
Reasonableness is much more subjective. Personally, I think grabbing a gun and running to a scene of civil disorder to protect property is unreasonable. But I can see how another reasonable person might disagree. But they'd have a significantly different values system.
I can't believe anyone would put a link up to arch nutter Alex Jones of Infowars as if it will add anything to anything. Even Wiki in its short pen portrait says he is known for the 'Promotion of multiple right-wing conspiracy theories'.
Presumably you are putting it up just to give us all a laugh. I actually don't find him funny just demented
I'm waiting for someone to round up these do*ks who persist in wearing their caps back to front. Followed by the sunglasses, cap back to front and hoodies over the top of the cap crowd, preferably worn inside a car. These outrages against fashion and world wide copy catting deserve the severest of punishment./sarc.
Truly sad is to see guys whose age should tell them better (say over 12years) continuing to do this. Perhaps Rittenhouse will be encouraged to lift himself above the do*k level crowds and throw his cap away.
'Compared to truck-based SUVs, they typically have better interior comfort, a more comfortable ride, better fuel economy, and lower manufacturing costs, but also inferior off-road and towing capability'
Crossover SUVs look like SUVs but are different to SUVs
AR-15s look like Military (Assault) rifles but are different to Military (Assault) rifles
This Athena Swan charter sounds disturbingly similar to Stonewall's Equality index, and has been adopted by The Higher Education Authority (HEA) of Ireland.
Engagement with this charter is required of all higher education institutions (HEIs) in the country and the HEA has stated that research funding could be lost by institutions if they do not achieve accreditation under this charter within a set timeframe.
‘This is going to sound extraordinary, unbelievable even, but I went to buy a newspaper in the Londis the other day on the DCU Glasnevin campus only to learn that there is a campus-wide “boycott” of the Irish Times over their alleged “transphobic editorial policy”. The commercial companies on campus obviously kowtowed to a student union motion.
‘The country’s de facto paper of record is de facto banned in one of the main higher learning centres, itself home to the leading journalism school. I imagine in a ‘history of journalism’ lecture there they would teach about freedom of the important of press under authoritarian regimes. Well they have a contemporaneous example in their midst. How embarrassing.’
Go back to sleep, then when you wake up have a look at the video footage from the trail (specifically where Kyle is kicked, assaulted and has an illegal pistol aimed at him), read some coverage that isn't CNN and then come back and post again
Why dont you just admit that you want the USA to return to the good old days of lynching, segregation and Jim Crow. Which is the ultamite goal of the likes of Rittenhouse and Greenwald.
I suppose you think George Floyd deserved to die as well.
[RL: You are tolerated as the unhinged nutter that brings a little colour to every site – but your personal attacks here are over the line. Last warning.]
millsy, like many in long-term relationships, I don't agree with my partner of 35 years on everything.
I don't even agree with myself from five years ago on some things.
If you abandon your expectation to find conformity and agreement in all things, then you'll understand how I can still appreciate Greenwalds work on Snowden and Assange while comprehending how law works, and the application of it matters even when we don't like the outcome. The inequality in representation demands scrutiny here too.
The fact that this teen deliberately armed himself and crossed counties to attend this protest deserves analysis regardless.
Greenwald's views are grounded in solid left-wing principles that take precedence over petty partisan politics … he has the integrity / honesty / courage to recognise & acutely critique the now very obvious Upper-Middle capture of the Left & how this is fundamentally subverting genuine traditional Social Democratic principles for its own narcissistic self-interest. Little more than a Vanity Project that viciously scapegoats whole swathes of the lower income, while further consolidating their own power, status & financial privilege. The Right & the political elites of the "Left" are increasingly just two warring sides of the same self-interested Establishment.
@swordfish, I take it you watched the video too, or, unlike me, have been following this case closely and critically.
I had to pause and do a few searches for the video footage etc, while watching to check, but I couldn't find any evidence that what Greenwald says in that video was inaccurate or biased.
Life is not black and white. People we love and admire can do the wrong thing, and conversely, people we don't like are not always guilty.
The weapon was in Kenosha, Kyle works in Kenosha and his father lives and works in Kenosha.
The travel time is approximately 20 minutes
This hogwash about crossing state lines was an attempt to make it sound more 'sinister' then it really was
Should Kyle have been there.
I'd say no but he had the right to be there, nor was his weapon illegal nor was it illegal for him to carry the weapon.
It was illegal for the sodomiser of children to threaten to kill Kyle, it was illegal for the multiple domestic abuser to assault Kyle and it was illegal for the convicted felon to aim an illegal pistol at Kyle
But it was legal for Kyle to defend himself which he did with extremely good weapon control.
I know as a devout homophobic wife beating creationist Christian, you think that people should be eternally punished for their crimes in both this life and the next, but in the secular world, these guys had served their time and paid their debt to society. The fact of the matter is that they were marching for civil rights and liberties, something that right wing Trump supporters like you cannot get your head round. Rittenhouse is a KKK sympathizing racist who thinks that minorities have too much rights and wants to return to the days of lynching and segregation. Like you
Yes, you have persuaded Millsy to examine his prejudices and repent for his sins.
Now that he has admitted where his opinions come from he may find the way to redemption. After all Millsy admits his faults when he says "I know as a devout homophobic wife beating creationist Christian".
Why don't you quote the full sentence which starts with "I know"?
However I still am quoting him fairly. He probably didn't mean to make such a confession but he did say it.
If I wrote a sentence that said “I know, as a totally degenerate alcoholic, that you can’t drink in moderation” the you wouldn’t be about other people it would be about the person who had written the “I”.
As a true wowser of course I never drink to excess. I also never lie. I follow in the path of St Jacinda.
These people that you hate are the last people that are willing to stand up and defend civil rights in the USA.
Its clearly obvious that Kyle's supporters, including yourself, want to return to the days of lynching, segreation and Jim Crow, where blacks were lynched for whistling at a white women, or forbidden from access services in 'White' areas.
Your mate Donald John Trump, his cabinet and his supporters were all set to impose a theocracy which white supramacist characteristics,
'Southern laws were enacted in the late 19th and early 20th centuries by white Southern Democrat-dominated state legislatures to disenfranchise and remove political and economic gains made by black people during the Reconstruction period.'
It's all over his Twitter feed. Guy has moved to the right. He supports Trump and wants cops to go round killing whoever they want
[in which case you could easily have posted a link. Please post links to your support your assertions now. I’m aware of GG’s positions, but this isn’t FB, we want informed debate here which means having access to what you are basing your opinions on – weka]
This past month has occasioned spectacular success, of a sort, for the pugnacious contrarian pundit, an erstwhile leftist journalist-turned-Donald Trump defender who once again is proving his mastery of the right-wing media ecosystem.
Indeed, in a self-perpetuating feedback loop that runs from Twitter to Fox News and back again, Greenwald has managed, like Trump before him, to orchestrate his very own news cycles.
Last year, following his exit from The Intercept, Greenwald admitted to The Daily Beast that Fox News airs its share of “horrific, toxic, damaging, destructive, and bigoted” content. However, he defended his frequent Fox hits, saying, “I have no doubt that some people at the Intercept were upset that I was going on Fox, but I would no sooner allow anyone to dictate to me which shows I can go on than I would allow anyone to censor my opinions.”
And now he is effectively operating as something of a Fox News assignment editor, as indicated by The Daily Beast’s spot check of the frequency with which Greenwald’s online musings on social media and elsewhere, especially his Substack page, have served as the basis for dozens of articles on Fox News’ website.
It seems it's all about money (around $2 mill US a year)
thanks. I'm aware of the controversy around Greenwald's views. I'm asking Millsy to up his game and present evidence that Greenwald wants Trump back in. This is about TS debate culture. Millsy knows better.
At the risk of incurring a mod note … can I just say that like so many Woke dogmatists … you're bordering on the unhinged … divorced from cold hard social reality … big on using social media for grandstanding & ostentatious prestige enhancement to impress your fellow dogmatists … hence the usual crude, sociopathic, intellectually lazy bullshit: entire demographics apparently eternally innocent & virtuous / other demographics entirely evil … Zero nuance & zero rationality going on your hippocampus.
"There is no part of Aotearoa, no business, no community, no farm, no family, whose future will not be shaped in some way by the decisions we all take about what goes in the plan.
"This is why it is so important to get them right, and why the final plan needs to reflect the government's ambition, as well as your own."
…
"Communities, businesses, unions, iwi, young people, faith groups, organisations and people from all walks of live have made it clear to me that they want to be involved in making the plan for how we reach a net zero carbon Aotearoa."
Shaw said we have to go faster and further to reach the goal of limiting global warming to 1.5C.
"Inaction today will cost our children dearly, and certainly more than it will cost us to put it right now.
"In the three decades since the science of climate change was made abundantly clear roughly as much climate pollution has been emitted as from the start of the start of the industrial revolution up to that point."
He said politicians all over the world knew what was unfolding and had a chance to stop it but didn't – and this was last moment before the window of oppportunity closed "perhaps for ever".
The ERP will be one of the most important, most comprehensive plans this Government creates. It will set out exactly how each Minister across Government plans to reduce climate pollution to meet our emissions targets and address the climate crisis. If done right, it will set us firmly on the path to a low emissions future.
We know our kids and our grandkids need this plan to be as ambitious as possible. Help us show Government Ministers that there is overwhelming public pressure for ambitious climate action by making a submission.
Please engage with the climate change processes already ongoing, make a submission to the emissions reduction plan. Closes 24 Nov 2021. The Greens provide a simplified form and a more comprehensive form above, or if you prefer the Ministry of the Environment form:
I wont be doing a submission, but if I was it would be around lowering the deer ,goat population significantly, huge amounts of native forest is effectively "dead bush standing " with any young growth not getting a start, I'd prefer its done as meat recovery.
That’s a perfect submission, I encourage you to do it. Is there any particular reason why you feel your views aren’t worth contributing?
This is one of the few opportunities we have to communicate our desires for Govt action on climate change, it only need take 10-15mins and it’s imperative the plan is as ambitious and as democratic as possible. This Govt has shown it needs to be pushed, and we can do it through this process, rather than complain about their inaction after the fact.
As far as the things we can do to prevent the worst of climate change go, this one is the low-hanging fruit and I strongly urge everyone to make a submission.
I hate the whole concept of the ets, its achieved nothing to date, is this sub mission up for removing nz from the ets and having any carbon tax spent in nz on real science and actions to reduce our footprint??
It comes across as leading me down a path to get the answers they want.
You've got a unique and valid view point and can think logically and succinctly. Despite what the grammar nazis think you get your point across in your voice / style.
Yip I reckon it'd be far better to spend some of the carbon tax supporting farmers to fence and control pests out of remnant native areas than send that money of to Bolsanaro in brazil.
But the nz left is so anti rural they'd rather see is hearded of to the cities in the last great clearance and the lad become a waste land of untended pines, !!
This is Pickles, a baby pukeko about 8 weeks old. He’d only just learned to swim properly and was getting independent. He spent the night on the far stream bank (parenga), & it rained that night, and was still raining in this scene.
His family of two adult male & one female pukekos were over on my side, getting a handout of wheat grains from me. They can easily fly over a flooded stream.
Pickles had only ever swum in the stream before when the wai was flowing slow and gentle. He has no idea swimming across this rushing torrent was a totally different matter, & gets swept away downstream
The others all stopped eating immediately & ran off along the parenga downstream to rescue him. They came back about 5 minutes later with Pickles following along behind, none the worse for wear, and a little wiser. 🙂
"A Belemnite is an opalised, fossilized Squid that has been discovered mainly in Coober Pedy, South Australia. Formed over about 100 million years, these fossilized opals are very rare. They are an extinct order of Squid that existed from the late Triassic to late Cretaceous period on Earth."
Manchester Pride now requires its attendees to take this Humanity Pledge before attending events:
Humanity Pledge
Before attending our Human Rights Forum events, we ask everyone to take our Humanity Pledge;
I believe that every individual is entitled to dignity, value and respect, without prejudice towards gender, sex, sexuality, disability, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, creed, language, age, class, wealth, pregnancy, marital status or any other marginalised and protected characteristic, including intersectional identities.
I will treat all people with dignity, empathy and respect and uphold their rights even when I disagree with their opinions.
I will, through both my words and actions, show respect and empathy for others at all times during the Manchester Pride Human Rights Forum 2021.
I will endeavour to not make assumptions about the identities, beliefs or experiences of any other participants at the Manchester Pride Human Rights Forum 2021.
In the persuit of queer liberation, I have come to the Manchester Pride Human Rights Forum 2021 to learn more about LGBTQ+ issues and support those affected by them. I have not come to share derogatory, hateful or oppressive opinions or views.
I understand that if I, at any point, fail to comply with these pledges, I will be asked to leave the Manchester Pride Human Rights Forum.
Nostalgia trip for me listening to songs that were present at certain times. (Though I agree, some of my more vivid personal recollections are friends, family and the occasional stranger singing with gusto rather than polish.)
Last year, four mothers and three of their babies died during or shortly after giving birth at Auckland City Hospital, in a highly unusual cluster of tragedy that sparked multiple investigations. The family of one mother and baby have broken their silence to tell investigations reporter Nicholas Jones why change is urgently needed.
Having received treatment in both the ADHB and Counties DHB over the last year, both while in lockdown and out of it, my personal experience has been of a disjointed below par delivery.
In addition to ICU capacity, these failings will make the medical response to Covid start on the back foot.
Over two decades ago, was in the maternity ward with three other mothers. I opted to keep my bassinet by my bed. Two of the others alternated with that and the nursery. It was only just before leaving I heard the nurse speak to the remaining patient and discovered her child was stillborn.
Tamaki’s bail conditions include not attending or organising any protest and not accessing the internet for the purpose of organising or inciting non-compliance with Covid-19 level requirements.
From that Stuff story, a perfect explanation of why the mandates are necessary – to save lives:
"Among the speakers was Papakura High School deputy principal Kelly Te Ariki, who said she is losing her job due to the mandate. She said she last attended school on November 15 before she and several other staff were no longer allowed on site, presumably due to their vaccine stance.
She did not explicitly mention Covid-19 vaccines but congratulated others who have chosen not to receive the shot. (italics added)
“We’re showing that we’re practising what we preach,” she said."
Kelly Te Ariki said she is losing her job due to the mandate. Another way of putting that is to say she is losing her job because she won't have a vaccination.
So, yea, screw that. If overseas citizens are paying NZ tax, paying off their students loans and paying off all their other obligations then they can have the same rights to MIQ as NZ-based NZ citizens. Screw that judgemental attitude about why NZ-based NZ citizens are going and returning to NZ.
MiQ is rationed. Who should get priority? We got delta from people coming through the border, and we are now gearing up for covid deaths and hospital overrun. I think there needs to be a bloody good reason to be leaving and coming back in again. Funerals and sick relatives, not holidays and unnecessary business trips. It's too soon, we don't actually know how effective the vaccine, other tools and traffic light system is going to be.
Thanks Molly, by coincidence I watched her submission to the Conversion Practices Bill.
She was stunning and her points very difficult to overlook. I think even the very biased Labour Women couldn't help but listen. God knows their treatment of other people presenting who didn't support the bill was appalling.
The USA the only country in the world where it is legal for civilians to hunt and kill human beings.
Arming himself with a military style assault rifle Kyle Rittenhouse drives 20 miles between his home in Antioch to nearby Kenosha and shoots three people, killing two.. And walked away without even a conviction.
If Kyle Rittenhouse had driven 20 miles to hunt and shoot three deer he would have been fined possibly even jailed.
The first person Rittenhouse shot and killed was a homeless man who had just left hospital who threw a plastic bag of his hospital belongings at Rittenhouse after Rittenhouse pointed his assault rifle at him.
Rittenhouse second killing was of a skate boarder who tried to strike Rittenhouse with his skate board to try to disarm him after Rittenhouse had killed his first victim.
Rittenhouse third victim drew a handgun and was wounded by Rittenhouse and survived the shooting.
In his defence Kyle Rittenhouse said he felt endangered by the three people he shot.
Kyle Rittenhouse would have no cause to feel endangered if he had not driven from his home in the company of other heavily armed men to confront his victims with his assault rifle.
Kyle Rittenhouse actions leading up his killings were premeditated.
Just as if he had driven from his home in the company of other hunters to shoot deer.
Only in a truly perverted legal system could a heavily armed killer like Rittenhouse have walked completely free without any legal sanction at all.
An assault rifle is a specific thing, you can't just label something an assault rifle because it looks like an assault rifle.
Kyle had a (legal) AR-15 type rifle. The AR-15 can only be produced as a semi-automatic.
To be designated an assault rifle the rifle, amongst other things, has to be able to be fired in both semi AND full automatic mode.
Kyle did not have an assault rifle.
Are we clear or do I need to explain it further?
Right lets move on shall we:
'The first person Rittenhouse shot and killed was a homeless man who had just left hospital who threw a plastic bag of his hospital belongings at Rittenhouse after Rittenhouse pointed his assault rifle at him.'
The first person Kyle shot was a convicted child molester and domestic abuser (amongst other charges) and had threatened to kill Kyle earlier in the night.
Thats not hearsay, thats from the prosecutions own witness.
Kyle attempted to run from Joseph however it was only when Joseph was close enough to make a grab for the rifle that Kyle shot him.
Kyle shot Joseph him because Kyle was in fear for his life because of the threats Joseph made towards him and that he was trying to grab Kyles rifle.
'Rittenhouse second killing was of a skate boarder who tried to strike Rittenhouse with his skate board to try to disarm him after Rittenhouse had killed his first victim'
Anthony Huber had multiple convictions of domestic abuse (amongst other charges) and didn't try to hit Kyle with the skateboard, he actually assaulted Kyle so Kyle defended himself.
'Rittenhouse third victim drew a handgun and was wounded by Rittenhouse and survived the shooting.'
The third person had a previous conviction for being drunk with a firearm and was illegally carrying his pistol, Kyle only shot when Grosskreutz aimed the pistol at Kyle.
'Kyle Rittenhouse would have no cause to feel endangered if he had not driven from his home in the company of other heavily armed men to confront his victims with his assault rifle.'
He wasn't in the company of other heavily armed men, he wasn't heavily armed and, as stated previously it wasn't an assault rifle.
However nothing about his actions were illegal, he was allowed to do what he doing.
His legal right.
'Kyle Rittenhouse actions leading up his killings were premeditated.'
Incorrect. Kyle shot three people who directly threatened him. How could he pre determine that, had he just randomly fired at anyone you might have a point.
He didn't, he shot three people directly threatening him.
'The first person Rittenhouse shot and killed was a homeless man who had just left hospital who threw a plastic bag of his hospital belongings at Rittenhouse after Rittenhouse pointed his assault rifle at him.'
The first person Kyle shot was a convicted child molester and domestic abuser (amongst other charges) and had threatened to kill Kyle earlier in the night.'
Wow…such accuracy!…so coincidentally he had to shoot everyone he came across..for whatever ..'reasons'!
'Kyle attempted to run from Joseph however it was only when Joseph was close enough to make a grab for the rifle that Kyle shot him.'
Joseph threatened Kyle, Joseph chased Kyle and tried to grab Kyles rifle, at any point Joseph could have stopped but he chose not
'Kyle shot Joseph him because Kyle was in fear for his life because of the threats Joseph made towards him and that he was trying to grab Kyles rifle.'
After gunning down an unarmed man Rittenhouse was running away.
The killer was chased by a witness to stop him getting away. Who then tried to disarm the killer.
You can spin the attempted disarming of an active shooter by a witness armed only with a skateboard as an act of aggression.
You can spin the killing of two people with a high powered military styled semi automatic weapon, as an act of self defence.
The facts are Kyle Rittenhouse in the company of other heavily armed men, killed two people, one of them completely unarmed, who presented no threat to him or his companions, and walked away free.
Kyle Rittenhouse was congratulated for his killings by the billionaire despot in waiting.
You don't really understand the words you're using and thats ok, we don't know what we don't know.
But since you read what I wrote previously and have changed accordingly (the whole AR-15 v assault rifle) you seem like someone that will change their mind when given new information
'Spin it how you like'
See I'm not trying to 'spin it', I'm laying out the facts as presented by proof, evidence and witnesses, an example of spinning it would be:
'After gunning down an unarmed man Rittenhouse was running away'
So theres a couple of things you need to know here.
So what you'll see here, in a video clip (thanks smart phones) is several people including the paedophile (hes the short, bald guy in the burgundy t shirt) pushing a flaming dumpster towards the gas station (in fairness they might also pushing towards the police cars)
'He said he had been putting out fires and asking people if they needed medical help when he saw Rosenbaum carrying a steel chain and wearing a mask. Rosenbaum began screaming at him, he said.'
“He was just mad about something. He’s screaming, ‘If I catch any of you (expletives) alone I’m going to (expletive) kill you.’”
When he encountered Rosenbaum again later, Rosenbaum shouted, “I’m going to cut your (expletive) hearts out and kill you,” Rittenhouse said.'
Despite the not guilty verdict the families of OJs' victims sued the fuck out of him and ruined him. Odds are the years Rittenhouse spends fighting off his lawyers and the families of the people he killed will ruin him, too.
It is no exaggeration to say that everyone but George Zimmerman is to blame for his descent into the bowels of notorious obscurity, according to him. Near the end of his 36-page suit, the whining and caterwauling reaches peek self-pity in the following points:
“Because of the arrest, charges, prosecution and federal investigation, Zimmerman lives in constant fear of physical harm due to regular death deaths, which often are expressed in rap music as well as online social media commentary. In 2015, a man named Matthew Apperson attempted to murder Zimmerman by shooting a bullet at him that missed his head by inches. Apperson was sentenced to 20 years in prison.
“Plaintiff Zimmerman was kicked out of college and had to abandon career plans to become a lawyer.
“Plaintiff Zimmerman has suffered nearly a complete loss of income as he cannot find work because of his “infamy” and legitimate fears by employers of violence and boycotts on their company. Because of the arrest, charges, prosecution and federal investigation, Zimmerman is unable to live a normal life. Zimmerman cannot circulate as a normal person in public. Zimmerman is unable to date; he was kicked off of several dating websites.
“Plaintiff Zimmerman has suffered severe loss of reputation, goodwill, and past, present, and future loss of income, earning, and other financial damage.”
'Sandmann beat CNN (the other suits are pending), which settled and paid rather than risk a trial. Assuming credibility and self-respect are worth about zero, we now know that the price tag for the agenda journalism CNN practices is reportedly $25 million.'
"The parallels between me and Kyle Rittenhouse are impossible not to draw," Sandmann wrote in a column for the Daily Mail in which he directly reached out to lend support. "The way the media has treated you is terrible, and you don't have to face it alone."
It's pretty clear from the evidence that the verdict was correct. The Prosecution failed to establish the case, as its own witnesses showed.
Of course that doesn't mean Kyle Rittenhouse is a hero or that it was a good decision to be there armed – it wasn't. But neither is he thereby automatically a white supremacist devil. He appears like a slightly lost young man looking for a cause, much like many of the protestors there.
It's a definite lesson in the politicalisation and ideological projecting of justice. George Floydd was another. The verdict was legally correct, but none of surrounding valorisation and narrative of George Floydd was right.
What's most interesting is the media narrative here again. It's yet another example of a Liberal media delivering narrative and ideologically driven news. Like the Steele Dossier. Of course Fox can be just as bad, but they are only one channel.
Here, it is even worse. The mainstream media is a dull, homogenous, highly ideological, moralistic, AND solidly Left-wing bias, especially on social issues. I have given up on Covid media coverage in NZ. It's a one-sided lecture and Government advertisement, not news.
‘It has been said that figures rule the world. Maybe. I am quite sure that it is figures which show us whether it is being ruled well or badly.’ GoetheI was struck at a recent conference on equity for the elderly, how many presenters implicitly relied upon Statistics New Zealand. ...
Buzz from the BeehiveReporting on defence spending late last year, RNZ said the coalition government will have to make some tough calls this term to help the force address staff shortages and ageing infrastructure. “These are huge, huge amounts of government spending. It’s a significant proportion of the government’s ...
Peter Dunne writes – I am always wary when I hear that the Controller and Auditor-General has commented on or made recommendations to the government about an issue of public policy that does not relate strictly to public expenditure. According to the legislation, the role of the Controller ...
How Labour’s and National’s failure to move beyond neoliberalism has brought NZ to the brink of economic and cultural chaos Chris Trotter writes – TO START LOSING, so soon after you won, requires a special kind of political incompetence. At the heart of this Coalition ...
And why did the Crown not challenge the Tribunal’s jurisdiction? Gary Judd writes – Retired District Court Judge, David Harvey, has posted on his A Halflings View Substack an excellent summary of Justice Isacs’ judgment declining to uphold the witness summons issued by the Waitangi Tribunal ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Do you believe New Zealand runs its general elections fairly and competently? As a voter, can you be confident that the votes on your ballot will be counted towards the final result?As a political scientist, I’ve been asked these questions many times and ...
Macklemore isn’t someone I’d usually think about. Sure I liked his big hit from a few years back, everybody did it was catchy and cool with some memorable lines. But if I was going to think of artists who might speak out on political matters or world events, he wouldn’t ...
Another week goes by in the Luxon government’s efforts to roll back the past 70 years of social progress. The school lunches programme is to be downgraded by $107 million, and women need bother their heads no longer about pay equity, let alone expect ACC to provide adequate sexual violence ...
Brrr, the first cold snap of the year. Hope you’re rugged up nice and warm. Here are some stories that caught our eye this week… This Week on Greater Auckland On Monday, we had a post from a new contributor, Connor Sharp, who dug into the public feedback ...
Almost all of the Wellington City Council’s recommended zoning changes to allow many more apartments and townhouses in its inner-suburbs have been approved.Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for subscribers features co-hosts and , along with regular guest on geopolitics, ...
Open access notablesA Global Increase in Nearshore Tropical Cyclone Intensification, Balaguru et al., Earth's Future:Tropical Cyclones (TCs) inflict substantial coastal damages, making it pertinent to understand changing storm characteristics in the important nearshore region. Past work examined several aspects of TCs relevant for impacts in coastal regions. However, ...
Do you believe New Zealand runs its general elections fairly and competently? As a voter, can you be confident that the votes on your ballot will be counted towards the final result? As a political scientist, I’ve been asked these questions many times and always answered “yes”, with very few ...
Thus far May has followed on from a quiet April in the blogging department, but in fairness, it has been another case of doing what I am supposed to be doing, namely writing original fiction. Plus reading. So don’t worry – I have been productive. But in order to reassure ...
Buzz from the Beehive A new government agency will open for business on July 1 – the Social Investment Agency. As a new standalone central agency effective from 1 July, it will lead the development of social investment across Government, helping ministers understand who they need to invest in, what ...
Bryce Edwards writes – “Follow the money” is the classic directive to journalists trying to understand where power and influence lie in society. In terms of uncovering who influences various New Zealand political parties and governments, it therefore pays to look at who is funding them. The ...
Alwyn Poole writes – After being elected to Parliament in 2008 the maiden speech of Hipkins was substantially around education policy. He was Labour’s spokesperson for education 2011 – 2017. He was Minister for Education from 2017 until February 2023. This is approximately 88% of the time Labour ...
Eric Crampton writes – A fashion industry group is lobbying for protections. They make the usual arguments and a newer one. None of it makes sense. An industry group says it pumped $7.8 billion into the economy last year – that’s 1.9 percent of New Zealand’s GDP. ...
In December 2006, Fiji's military leader Voreqe Bainimarama overthrew the elected government in a coup. He ruled Fiji for the next 16 years, first as dictator, then as "elected" Prime Minister. But now, he's finally been sent to jail where he belongs. Sadly, this isn't for his real crime of ...
Don't like National's corrupt Muldoonist "fast-track" law? Aotearoa's environmental NGO's - Greenpeace, Forest & Bird, WWF, Coromandel Watchdog, Coal Action Network Aotearoa, Kiwis Against Seabed Mining, and others - have announced a joint march against it in Auckland in June: When: 13:00, 8 June, 2024 Where: Aotea Square, Auckland You ...
Seymour describes sushi as too woke for school meals. There are no fish sushi meals recommended by the School Lunches programme. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: The Government will swap out hot meals for packaged sandwiches to save $107 million on school lunches for poor kids. MSD has pulled ...
I don't mind stealin' bread from the mouths of decadenceBut I can't feed on the powerless when my cup's already overfilled, yeahBut it's on the table, the fire's cookin'And they're farmin' babies, while slaves are workin'The blood is on the table and the mouths are chokin'But I'm goin' hungry, yeahSome ...
The Ardern Government’s chickens came home to roost yesterday with the news that the country is short of natural gas. In 2018, Labour banned offshore petroleum exploration, and industry executives say that the attendant loss of confidence by the industry impacted overall investment in onshore gas fields. Energy Resources Minister ...
Hi,If you’ve been digging through the newly launched Webworm store (orders are being dispatched worldwide as I type!) you’ll have noticed the best model we had was Calvin.This is Calvin.Calvin.Calvin is 7, and is the son of my producer over on Flightless Bird, Rob — aka “Wobby Wob”. Rob also ...
This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). Climate change is everywhere. And when something's everywhere it can feel like it's nowhere. So how do we get our heads ...
Its a law like gravity: whenever a right-wing government is elected, they start attacking democracy. And now, after talking to their Republican and Tory and Fidesz chums at the International Democracy Union forum in Wellington, National is doing it here, announcing plans to remove election-day enrolment. Or, to put it ...
Yesterday Winston Peters focussed his attention on the important matter at hand. Tweeting. Like the former, and quite possibly next, orange POTUS, from whom he takes much of his political strategy, Winston is an avid X’er.His message didn’t resemble an historic address this time. In fact it was more reminiscent ...
Buzz from the Beehive A significant decline in natural gas production has given Resources Minister Shane Jones an opportunity to reiterate his enthusiasm for the mining and burning of coal. For good measure, he has praised an announcement from Genesis Energy that it will resume importing coal. He and Energy ...
“Follow the money” is the classic directive to journalists trying to understand where power and influence lie in society. In terms of uncovering who influences various New Zealand political parties and governments, it therefore pays to look at who is funding them. The political parties are legally obliged to make ...
Rob MacCullough writes – Here is my subjective ranking on a “most-left” to “most-right” scale of most of our major NZ Universities, with some anecdotal (and at times amusing) evidence to back up the claim.Extreme Left Auckland University of TechnologyEvidenceThe ...
Eric Crampton writes – I hadn’t thought about this one until a helpful email showed up in my inbox.It’s pretty obvious that income tax thresholds should automatically index with inflation – whether to anchor the thresholds in percentiles of the income distribution, or to anchor against a real ...
Jacqui Van Der Kaay writes – Parliament’s speaker had no option but to refer Green MP Julie Anne Genter to the Privileges Committee for her behaviour in the House last Wednesday evening. The incident, in which she crossed the floor to wave a book and yell at National ...
Gary Judd writes – The Dean of the law school at the Auckland University of Technology is someone called Khylee Quince. I have been sent her social media posting in which she has, over the LawNews headline “Senior King’s Counsel files complaint about compulsory tikanga Maori studies for ...
Cleo Paskal writes – WASHINGTON, D.C.: ‘Many of us have received phone calls from [the opposing camp] telling them if they join the camp they will be given projects for their wards and $300,000 [around US$35,000] each’, says former Malaita Premier Daniel Suidani. The elections in Solomon Islands aren’t ...
With hindsight, it was inevitable that (a) Hamas would agree to the ceasefire deal brokered by Egypt and Qatar and that ( b) Israel would then immediately launch attacks on Rafah, regardless. We might have hoped the concessions made by Hamas would cause Israel to desist from slaughtering thousands more ...
Placards and mourners outside the Kilbirnie Mosque following the Christchurch terror attack: MSD has terminated the Kaiwhakaoranga service, which has been used by 415 families since the attacks. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: The Government’s pledge to only cut ‘back office’ staff rather than ‘frontline’ services is on increasingly shaky ground, with ...
There’s been a few smaller public transport announcements over the last week or so that I thought I’d cover in a single post. Fareshare I’ve long called for Auckland Transport to offer a way to enable employer-subsidised public transport options. The need for this took on even more importance ...
Parliament’s speaker had no option but to refer Green MP Julie Anne Genter to the Privileges Committee for her behaviour in the House last Wednesday evening. The incident, in which she crossed the floor to wave a book and yell at National Minister Matt Doocey, reflects poorly on Genter and ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Who likes being sneered at? Nobody. Worse yet, when the sneerer has their facts all wrong, and might well be an idiot.The sneer in question is The adults are in charge now, and it is a sneer offered in retort to criticism of this new Government, no matter how well ...
When in government, Labour pushed to extend the Parliamentary term to four years, to reduce accountability and our ability to vote out a bad government. And now, they're trying to do it through the member's ballot, with a Four-Year Parliamentary Term Legislation Bill. The bill at least requires a referendum ...
A ballot for a single Member's Bill was held today, and the following bill was drawn: Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill (Hūhana Lyndon) The bill would prevent the government from stealing Māori land in breach of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. It ...
Simeon Brown, alongside Wayne Brown, is favouring a political figleaf now in exchange for loading up tens of millions in extra interest costs on Auckland ratepayers. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Ratings agency Standard & Poor’s is pushing back hard at suggestions from Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Mayor Wayne Brown ...
Buzz from the Beehive One headline-grabber from the Beehive yesterday was the OECD’s advice that the government must bring the Budget deficit under control or face higher interest rates. Another was the announcement of a $1.9 billion “investment” in Corrections over the next four years. In the best interests of ...
Chris Trotter writes – Had Zheng He’s fleet sailed east, not west, in the early Fifteenth Century, how different our world would be. There is little reason to suppose that the sea-going junks of the Ming Dynasty, among the largest and most sophisticated sailing vessels ever constructed, would have failed ...
David Farrar writes – Two articles give a useful contrast in balance. Both seek to be neutral explainer articles. This one in the Herald on Social Investment covers the pros and cons nicely. It links to critical pieces and talks about aspects that failed and aspects that are more ...
The tikanga regulations will compel law students to be taught that a system which does not conform with the rule of law is nevertheless law which should be observed and applied…Gary Judd KC writes – I have made a complaint to Parliament’s Regulation ...
The future of Te Huia, the train between Hamilton and Auckland, has been getting a lot of attention recently as current funding for it is only in place till the end of June. The government initially agreed to a five year trial, through to April 2026, but that was subject ...
TL;DR: Hamas has just agreed to Israel’s ceasefire plan. Nelson hospital’s rebuild has been cut back to save money. The OECD suggests New Zealand break up network monopolies, including in electricity. PM Christopher Luxon’s news conference on a prison expansion announcement last night was his messiest yet.Here’s my top six ...
A homicide in Ponsonby, a manhunt with a killer on the run. The nation’s leader stands before a press conference reassuring a frightened nation that he’ll sort it out, he’ll keep them safe, he’ll build some new prison spaces.Sorry what? There’s a scary dude on the run with a gun ...
Hi,I know it’s been awhile since there’s been any Webworm merch — and today that all changes!Over the last four months, I’ve been working with New Zealand artist Jess Johnson to create a series of t-shirts, caps and stickers that are infused with Webworm DNA — and as of right ...
The OECD’s chief economist yesterday laid it on the line for the new Government: bring the deficit under control or face higher Reserve Bank interest rates for longer. And to bring the deficit under control, she meant not borrowing for tax cuts. But there was more. Without policy changes—introducing a ...
After a hiatus of over four months Selwyn Manning and I finally got it together to re-start the “A View from Afar” podcast series. We shall see how we go but aim to do 2 episodes per month if possible. … Continue reading → ...
In 2008, the UK Parliament passed the Climate Change Act 2008. The law established a system of targets, budgets, and plans, with inbuilt accountability mechanisms; the aim was to break the cycle of empty promises and replace it with actual progress towards emissions reduction. The law was passed with near-universal ...
Buzz from the Beehive Local Water Done Well – let’s be blunt – is a silly name, but the first big initiative to put it into practice has gone done well. This success is reflected in the headline on an RNZ report:District mayors welcome Auckland’s new water deal with ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate ConnectionsA farmworker cleans the solar panels of a solar water pump in the village of Jagadhri, Haryana Country, India. (Photo credit: Prashanth Vishwanathan/ IWMI) Decisions made in India over the next few years will play a key role in global ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – The Children’s Minister, Karen Chhour, intends to repeal Section 7AA from the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989 because it creates conflict between claimed Crown Treaty obligations and the child’s best interests. In her words, “Oranga Tamariki’s governing principles and its act should be colour ...
Geoffrey Miller writes – The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. ...
Brian Easton writes – This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be (I will report on them ...
TL;DR:Winston Peters is reported to have won a budget increase for MFAT. David Seymour wanted his Ministry of Regulation to be three times bigger than the Productivity Commission. Simeon Brown is appointing a Crown Monitor to Watercare to protect the Claytons Crown Guarantee he had to give ratings agencies ...
The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. Carr had made highly ...
I could be a florist'Round the corner from Rye LaneI'll be giving daisies to craziesBut, baby, I'll wrap you up real safe Oh, I can give you flowers At the end of every dayFor the center of your table, a rainbowIn case you have people 'round to stay Depending on ...
TL;DR: The six key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to May 12 include:PM Christopher Luxon is scheduled to hold a post-Cabinet news conference at 4 pm today. Finance Minister Nicola Willis will give a pre-budget speech on Thursday.Parliament sits from Question Time at 2pm on ...
The price of the foreign affairs “reset” is now becoming apparent, with Defence set to get a funding boost in the Budget. Finance Minister Nicola Willis has confirmed that it will be one of the few votes, apart from Health and Education and possibly Police, which will get an increase ...
A listing of 26 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 28, 2024 thru Sat, May 4, 2024. Story of the week "It’s straight out of Big Tobacco’s playbook. In fact, research by John Cook and his colleagues ...
Yesterday I received come lovely feedback following my Star Wars themed newsletter. A few people mentioned they’d enjoyed reading the personal part at the beginning.I often begin newsletters with some memories, or general thoughts, before commencing the main topic. This hopefully sets the mood and provides some context in which ...
April 30 was going to be the day we’d be calling Mum from London to wish her a happy birthday. Then it became the day we would be going to St. Paul's at Evensong to remember her. The aim of the cathedral builders was to find a way to make their ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Can’t remember the last book by a Kiwi author you read? Think the NZ government should spend less on the arts in favor of helping the homeless? If so, as far as Newsroom is concerned, you probably deserve to be called a cultural ignoramus ...
Today New Zealand First will introduce a Member’s Bill that will protect women’s spaces. The ‘Fair Access to Bathrooms Bill’ will require, primarily in the interest and safety of women and girls, that all new non-domestic publicly accessible buildings provide separate, clearly demarcated, unisex and single sex bathrooms. This Bill ...
The Green Party is welcoming Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ continuation of Hon. James Shaw’s cross-party work on climate adaptation, now in the form of a Finance and Expenditure Committee Inquiry. ...
The National Government plans to cut 390 jobs at ACC, including roles in the areas of prevention of sexual violence, road safety and workplace safety. ...
The Government has been caught in opposition to evidence once again as it looks to usher in tried, tested and failed work seminar obligations for job-seeking beneficiaries. ...
The Green Party is welcoming the announcement by the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform Chris Bishop to approve most of the Wellington City Council’s District Plan recommendations. ...
David Seymour has failed to get the sweeping cuts he wanted to the free and healthy school lunch programme, Labour education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
Hon Willie Jackson has been invited by the Oxford Union to debate the motion “This House Believes British Museums are not Very British’ on May 23rd. ...
Green Party MP Hūhana Lyndon says her Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill is an opportunity to right some past wrongs around the alienation of Māori land. ...
A senior, highly respected King’s Counsel with decades of experience in our law courts, Gary Judd KC, has filed a complaint about compulsory tikanga Māori studies for law students - highlighting the utter depths of absurdity this woke cultural madness has taken our society. The tikanga regulations will compel law ...
The Government needs to be clear with the people of the Nelson Marlborough region about the changes it is considering for the Nelson Hospital rebuild, Labour health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall said. ...
Ministers must front up about which projects it will push through under its Fast Track Approvals legislation, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
Introduction Good morning. It’s a great privilege to be here at the 2024 Infrastructure Symposium. I was extremely happy when the Prime Minister asked me to be his Minister for Infrastructure. It is one of the great barriers holding the New Zealand economy back from achieving its potential. Building high ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced the upcoming Budget will include new funding of $571 million for Defence Force pay and projects. “Our servicemen and women do New Zealand proud throughout the world and this funding will help ensure we retain their services and expertise as we navigate an increasingly ...
New Zealand’s ability to cope with climate change will be strengthened as part of the Government’s focus to build resilience as we rebuild the economy, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “An enduring and long-term approach is needed to provide New Zealanders and the economy with certainty as the climate ...
Jobseeker beneficiaries who have work obligations must now meet with MSD within two weeks of their benefit starting to determine their next step towards finding a job, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “A key part of the coalition Government’s plan to have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker ...
A new standalone Social Investment Agency will power-up the social investment approach, driving positive change for our most vulnerable New Zealanders, Social Investment Minister Nicola Willis says. “Despite the Government currently investing more than $70 billion every year into social services, we are not seeing the outcomes we want for ...
Check against delivery Good morning. It is a pleasure to be with you to outline the Coalition Government’s approach to our first Budget. Thank you Mark Skelly, President of the Hutt Valley Chamber of Commerce, together with your Board and team, for hosting me. I’d like to acknowledge His Worship ...
Your Excellency Ambassador Meredith, Members of the Diplomatic Corps and Ambassadors from European Union Member States, Ministerial colleagues, Members of Parliament, and other distinguished guests, Thank you everyone for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen - In diplomacy, we often speak of ‘close’ and ‘long-standing’ relations. ...
The Therapeutic Products Act (TPA) will be repealed this year so that a better regime can be put in place to provide New Zealanders safe and timely access to medicines, medical devices and health products, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello announced today. “The medicines and products we are talking about ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop, today released his decision on twenty recommendations referred to him by the Wellington City Council relating to its Intensification Planning Instrument, after the Council rejected those recommendations of the Independent Hearings Panel and made alternative recommendations. “Wellington notified its District Plan on ...
Rape Awareness Week (6-10 May) is an important opportunity to acknowledge the continued effort required by government and communities to ensure that all New Zealanders can live free from violence, say Ministers Karen Chhour and Louise Upston. “With 1 in 3 women and 1 in 8 men experiencing sexual violence ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government will be delivering a more efficient Healthy School Lunches Programme, saving taxpayers approximately $107 million a year compared to how Labour funded it, by embracing innovation and commercial expertise. “We are delivering on our commitment to treat taxpayers’ money ...
New research on the impacts of extreme weather on coastal marine habitats in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay will help fishery managers plan for and respond to any future events, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. A report released today on research by Niwa on behalf of Fisheries New Zealand ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will lead a broad political delegation on a five-stop Pacific tour next week to strengthen New Zealand’s engagement with the region. The delegation will visit Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and Tuvalu. “New Zealand has deep and ...
There has been a material decline in gas production according to figures released today by the Gas Industry Co. Figures released by the Gas Industry Company show that there was a 12.5 per cent reduction in gas production during 2023, and a 27.8 per cent reduction in gas production in the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins tonight announced the recipients of the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry, saying they all contribute to New Zealanders’ security and wellbeing. “Congratulations to this year’s recipients, whose innovative products and services play a critical role in the delivery of New Zealand’s defence capabilities, ...
Welcome to you all - it is a pleasure to be here this evening.I would like to start by thanking Greg Lowe, Chair of the New Zealand Defence Industry Advisory Council, for co-hosting this reception with me. This evening is about recognising businesses from across New Zealand and overseas who in ...
It is a pleasure to be speaking to you as the Minister for Digitising Government. I would like to thank Akolade for the invitation to address this Summit, and to acknowledge the great effort you are making to grow New Zealand’s digital future. Today, we stand at the cusp of ...
New Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...
A new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced Rosemary Banks will be New Zealand’s next Ambassador to the United States of America. “Our relationship with the United States is crucial for New Zealand in strategic, security and economic terms,” Mr Peters says. “New Zealand and the United States have a ...
The Government is considering creating a new tier of minerals permitting that will make it easier for hobby miners to prospect for gold. “New Zealand was built on gold, it’s in our DNA. Our gold deposits, particularly in regions such as Otago and the West Coast have always attracted fortune-hunters. ...
Minister for Trade Todd McClay today announced that New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will commence negotiations on a free trade agreement (FTA). Minister McClay met with his counterpart UAE Trade Minister Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi in Dubai, where they announced the launch of negotiations on a ...
New Zealand Sign Language Week is an excellent opportunity for all Kiwis to give the language a go, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. This week (May 6 to 12) is New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL) Week. The theme is “an Aotearoa where anyone can sign anywhere” and aims to ...
Six tertiary students have been selected to work on NASA projects in the US through a New Zealand Space Scholarship, Space Minister Judith Collins announced today. “This is a fantastic opportunity for these talented students. They will undertake internships at NASA’s Ames Research Center or its Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where ...
New Zealanders will be safer because of a $1.9 billion investment in more frontline Corrections officers, more support for offenders to turn away from crime, and more prison capacity, Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell says. “Our Government said we would crack down on crime. We promised to restore law and order, ...
The OECD’s latest report on New Zealand reinforces the importance of bringing Government spending under control, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The OECD conducts country surveys every two years to review its members’ economic policies. The 2024 New Zealand survey was presented in Wellington today by OECD Chief Economist Clare Lombardelli. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Pacific Media Watch Television New Zealand Pacific correspondent Barbara Dreaver has been made an Officer of the New Zealand Order of Merit for services to investigative journalism and Pacific communities in a ceremony at Government House, reports 1News. She has been the Pacific correspondent for 1News since 2002, breaking many ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Tuesday’s budget will respond to the deepening public agitation over Australia’s housing shortages by pouring new money into crisis accommodation for women and children, social housing and infrastructure. A specially-convened national cabinet late Friday ticked ...
By Kaneta Naimatu in Suva Journalists in the Pacific region play an important role as the “eyes and ears on the ground” when it comes to reporting the climate crisis, says the European Union’s Pacific Ambassador Barbara Plinkert. Speaking at The University of the South Pacific (USP) on World Press ...
Aldora Itunu is back in the Black Ferns squad after a three-year absence. The last of her 24 internationals was an underwhelming loss to France (7-29) in Castres to conclude the disastrous 2021 Northern Tour. The powerhouse prop won a Rugby World Cup in 2017 and thought she was done. ...
The fight to control major transport policy and projects in Auckland has burst into the open again, with councillors rejecting Mayor Wayne Brown’s latest attempt to steer things more under his influence. Councillors from the left and right broke ranks on the mayor’s bid to control Auckland Transport more directly ...
Exhausted by the general election campaign, horrified by the twilight zone of coalition negotiations, distracted by the silly season and waiting for the honeymoon to begin, Raw Politics has been in hibernation since October. From today, we’re back. Our weekly political video show and podcast returns for ...
By Patrick Decloitre, RNZ Pacific correspondent French Pacific desk Authorities in the small town of Boulouparis have commemorated Armistice Day on May 8 with a new memorial honouring New Zealand soldiers who were stationed in New Caledonia during World War II. The ceremony took place in the township on the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sara Dehm, Senior lecturer, international migration and refugee law, University of Technology Sydney The High Court unanimously ruled today that the Australian government can keep asylum seekers in immigration detention indefinitely in cases where they do not “voluntarily” cooperate with their own ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kim Munro, Lecturer, Creative Industries and Digital Media, University of South Australia Twenty-four hours after the release of Macklemore’s pro-Palestine protest song Hind’s Hall on social media on May 7, the video had already notched up over 24 million views. In ...
Failing to anticipate the complexity of the consenting system is being cited as the the current builder's shortcomings, an Infrastructure Commission review says. ...
350 Aotearoa is calling the Environment Select Committee’s decision to allow oral submissions from just 40% of individual, unique submitters who asked to speak to the committee ‘a disgraceful blight to democracy’. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Helal, Assistant Dean (Sustainability), The University of Melbourne Dubai skylineAleksandarPasaric/Pexels Since ancient times, people have built structures that reach for the skies – from the steep spires of medieval towers to the grand domes of ancient cathedrals and mosques. Today ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Edward Musole, PhD Law Student, University of New England Girts Ragelis/ShutterstockRecent trends show Australians are increasingly buying wearables such as smartwatches and fitness trackers. These electronics track our body movements or vital signs to provide data throughout the day, with ...
Papua New Guinea experienced a significant earthquake on 24 March in East Sepik and there has also been recent flooding there and in surrounding provinces. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Yousuf Mohammed, Dermatology researcher, The University of Queensland Maridav/Shutterstock You wake up, stagger to the bathroom and gaze into the mirror. No, you’re not imagining it. You’ve developed face wrinkles overnight. They’re sleep wrinkles. Sleep wrinkles are temporary. But as your ...
The Environment Select Committee has just announced that 60 percent of individuals who asked to speak at the hearings will not be heard. This equates to almost 700 people who made individual submissions and more than 1000 more who made a form submission. ...
The Royal New Zealand Ballet is performing Swan Lake around the country. What kind of dream does the ballet sell?Before going to see the Royal New Zealand Ballet perform Swan Lake, I had about as much familiarity with the plot of this ballet as could be expected from having ...
A new poem by Auckland poet Eamonn Tee. High Tide at Local Maxima It is only going to get worse. The streams will be narrow and fickle. The week will bend and buckle like a pot-bellied waist. You will make it to the weekend with one ...
The New Zealand entrepreneur behind beauty business Ethique is gearing up to launch a new eco-venture. This is an excerpt from our weekly environmental newsletter Future Proof. Sign up here. Our thirst for a tasty bevvy is insatiable, but it comes with a hefty plastic price for the planet: 580 billion ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 James by Percival Everett (Mantle, $38) A retelling of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn from ...
By Kamna Kumar in Suva Pacific Islands Forum Secretary-General Henry Puna stressed the importance of media freedom and its link to the climate and environmental crisis at the 2024 World Press Freedom Day event organised by the University of the South Pacific’s journalism programme. Under the theme “A Planet for ...
Tara Ward previews a new local TV series offering alternative visions of motherhood. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. A woman is clambering up the side of her two-story house, clinging desperately to a drainpipe. Nearby, her child is perched on the ...
Local Government New Zealand (LGNZ) is supportive of the cross-party approach to climate adaptation announced by the Minister of Climate Change today. ...
The Sustainable Business Council (SBC) and Climate Leaders Coalition (CLC) welcome today’s announcement from Government around a bipartisan inquiry into an enduring climate adaptation framework for New Zealand. ...
The Free Speech Union welcomes the decision by the Department of Internal Affairs, and Minister Brooke Van Velden, to abandon proposals to further regulate online speech. ...
Its new building in Wellington will not be nearly big enough for all its records, and it has also run out of money to build its new storage facility in Levin. ...
BusinessNZ is congratulating the Minister of Climate Change for his work in achieving cross-party consensus for a way forward on climate adaptation. ...
Recent research reveals the repeal of smokefree measures is not only bad for our health, but also the economy. The Government has repealed various smokefree measures to ensure it keeps collecting $1.2 billion a year in tobacco taxes, in order to pay for tax cuts already being delivered to ...
The club’s surprisingly good season is built on the desire to prove a random A-League YouTuber wrong… and a few other factors.“There’s no way that Wellington Phoenix play finals this year. I can’t see it happening at all.” Those are the words of Lachlan Raeside, an Australian football content ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By César Albarrán-Torres, Senior Lecturer, Department of Media and Communication, Swinburne University of Technology Apple TV+ As one of billions of bilingual individuals in the world, it disappoints me when a film or TV show with characters of a non-English-speaking background is ...
The under-utilised course is a waste of space, and with a little political will, it could be turned into something better. For the duration of her stay in Wellington, my long-suffering cousin listened to me rant about golf courses. They’re bad for the environment: water intensive and pesticide heavy. They ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Leah Ruppanner, Professor of Sociology and Founding Director of The Future of Work Lab, Podcast at MissPerceived, The University of Melbourne Shutterstock A recent report from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows US fertility rates dropped 2% in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amy Corderoy, Medical doctor and PhD candidate studying involuntary psychiatric treatment, School of Psychiatry, UNSW Sydney shop_py/Shutterstock Picture two people, both suffering from a serious mental illness requiring hospital admission. One was born in Australia, the other in Asia. Hopefully, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sarah Treby, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, RMIT University P.j.Hickox, Shutterstock Peatlands store more carbon per square metre than any other ecosystem on Earth. These waterlogged, mossy bogs beat even dense rainforests for their ability to act as carbon reservoirs. Under the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Goss, Adjunct Associate Professor, Health Research Institute, University of Canberra Government spending on health has been growing so rapidly that a decade ago the then health minister Peter Dutton called it “unmanageable” and “unsustainable”. Health spending grew in real terms by ...
New Zealand's largest electricity distributor is warning the country to hurry up with controls around charging electric vehicles or face unnecessary bills running into the billions. ...
New Zealanders have been asked to conserve energy this morning to combat a possible electricity shortfall, writes Stewart Sowman-Lund in this extract from The Bulletin. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. A call to conserve power New Zealand is facing a possible electricity shortfall, with people up ...
Writer Rebecca K Reilly breaks down the national book awards. What are the Ockhams?The Ockham New Zealand Book Awards are our annual national awards for books published for adults, and have existed in this form since 2016. There are four categories: Fiction, Poetry, General Non-fiction and Illustrated Non-fiction. There ...
Wellington City Council should keep its 34% ownership share in Wellington International Airport, argue Unions Wellington spokespeople Finn Cordwell and Ashok Jacob. Insanity, as the saying goes, is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Wellington City Council (WCC) is yet again proposing to dispose ...
New Zealand’s largest book publisher has undergone drastic changes this week, leaving its future role in local publishing uncertain. Two of the most recognisable local publishers in New Zealand are among those restructured out of Penguin Random House, it was announced this week. Head of publishing Claire Murdoch will leave ...
In 2021 the Public Interest Journalism Fund launched the Te Rito Journalism project, a $2.4 million initiative to boost diversity in New Zealand’s newsrooms. The initiative was in response to the decades-long shortage of Māori and Pacific journalists in the media industry. It was billed as New Zealand’s ...
The Black Ferns Sevens appeared to be a mile behind Australia at the halfway point of the 2023-24 SVNS international circuit. Winless in three tournaments, a cup quarter-final exit in Perth was one of their worst results. To add insult to injury, talismanic skipper Sarah Hirini had been ruled out ...
Loading…(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A,DIV,A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp'); Got a good quiz question?Send Newsroom your questions. The post Newsroom daily quiz, Friday 10 May appeared first on Newsroom. ...
Successive governments have tried, and failed, to count Māori. But with the return of social investment, it’s more important than ever to get good data. The post Government looks for a better way to count Māori appeared first on Newsroom. ...
Experts in financing social investment initiatives say New Zealand is in a prime position to tackle social issues via a social investment approach The post What will Willis’ social investment fund look like? appeared first on Newsroom. ...
By Lydia Lewis, RNZ Pacific journalist A former Tuvalu prime minister says while the New Zealand government’s oil and gas plans show it is concerned about its economy, he is more concerned about the livelihoods and survival of the Tuvalu people. Enele Sopoaga — who still serves as an MP ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Many people who follow federal budgets know about the magnificent “budget tree” in a parliamentary courtyard, which turns a glorious red in time for the May event. This week Treasurer Jim Chalmers posed by ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Samantha Bennett, Professor of Music, Australian National University Richard P J Lambert/flickr, CC BY The future belongs to the analogue loyalists. Fuck digital. As a tsunami of CDs, DAT tapes and samplers swept the recording industry in the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Catherine Strong, Associate professor, Music Industry, RMIT University This week American rapper Macklemore released a new track, Hind’s Hall, which has gained a lot of attention because of its explicitly political nature. The track is unapologetically pro-Palestine. It declares the artist’s ...
Explainer - The government from 2025 is mandating how state schools teach children to read. But what is structured literacy and how does it compare to other teaching methods? ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Danica Jenkins, Lecturer in European Studies, University of Sydney On a freezing spring night in March, Georgia’s national soccer team beat Greece in a nail-biter penalty shootout to qualify for the Euro 2024 championships. The atmosphere on the streets of the capital ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adam G. Arian, Lecturer (Accounting & Finance), Australian Catholic University Loic Manegarium/Pexels Imagine every ton of carbon dioxide a company emits is slowly inflating its costs — not just in terms of potential fines or fees but in the capital it ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Somwrita Sarkar, Senior Lecturer in Design and Computation, University of Sydney The “latte line” is the infamous, invisible boundary that divides Sydney between the more affluent north-east and the south-west. Historically, people north of the line enjoy better access to jobs and ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Dowdy, Principal Research Scientist in Extreme Weather, The University of Melbourne Nomad_Soul/Shutterstock In media articles about unprecedented flooding, you’ll often come across the statement that for every 1°C of warming, the atmosphere can hold about 7% more moisture. This ...
Defying expectations: how New South Wales kept Covid cases low after reopening | Coronavirus | The Guardian
"The combination of an impressive and rapid vaccine uptake, together with mask mandates, contact tracing and isolation requirements as well as vaccination entry permits, has largely been credited for containing the outbreak and keeping case numbers low."
Evidence that the "traffic light" system may work for us.
So long as the anti-vacc, anti-mask, anti-restrictions, let her rip minority, don't fuck it up for us.
Yeah I am over the people who shit this all up for the rest of us.
I wonder… would the anti-vax anti-mask anti-mandate people have been the anti-conscription conscience objectors of past decades? I think not. They would have hung drawn and quartered the conscience objector…
I often put the mandated conscription / conscience objector point to anti people and they just look back at me with blank ignorance…
blank ignorance
I find the claim that the "antis" are like the "Conshies" particularly objectionable.
Going against the tide, because of a moral objection to killing other people.
Going against the tide, because you think your "rights to choice" are more important than the lives and livelihoods of your community.
One is "not like the other"!
Sure. My point was more about the mandated nature of conscription, than a comparison of conshies and antis. Not very well expressed on my part. The antis are not like the conshies at all – different planets.
The antis stop in their tracks when I raise the conscription point. It shows up their shallowing thinking and understanding imo
Most of them are so thick they wouldn't know what a conscientious objector was vto, and their knowledge of history would likely be zilch.
What they do have in common is the concept of 'duty'.
Bullshit.
An anti-vacc stance is the anti-thesis of the "concept of duty".
"Duty" is what you do for your mates, society or others.
The opposite of putting everyone at greater risk, to avoid a perceived risk to yourself.
Fuck me you're a total moron.
Just take some more Ivermectin.
That will fix it.
Ivermectin was being investigated as a potential anti-viral well before C19 which is why the original Monash University team trialed it as a potential treatment in the first place and continue to work on it.
Since then there have been reasonably strong clinical signals that when used correctly it may have a benefit. And meta-studies that combine these results seem to confirm this signal.
We also now have a reasonable idea of the mechanism by which it could act against viral replication.
Does it really work? That's something that's yet to be definitively answered, which is why more than a few entities continue to spend some serious money getting to an irrefutable yes or no. Even if there is only a remote chance the answer is yes – a cheap, safe and effective treatment would be of immense value.
On the other hand – right from the get go you knew the answer for certain. It wasn't a vaccine therefore it could not work.
In reality I've barely if at all, mentioned ivermectin. You are putting words in my mouth again.
Awaiting the results of definitive trials.
It may, or may not be of use after infection. Which is yet to be determined.
The mystery is why so many advocate for ivermectin, which I agree should be trialled, along with the many other treatments that may be useful, some already proven more effective than ivermectin, instead of a treatment that has been proven safe and effective over millions of doses. Not just “clinical indications”. Real life statistical population wide evidence. And helps prevent both infection and reducing severity.
Blinded by their opposition to vaccination.
instead of a treatment that has been proven safe and effective over millions of doses.
I lined up for my vaccination not because I though this brand new mRNA technology was well proven, or we had all the data available, or that it was going to eliminate C19, or that I thought the people promoting it are entirely trustworthy – but because sometimes in a crisis you have to do things that aren't all that attractive.
A sense of duty as it were.
The idea that the vaccine is not "well proven" After millions of doses where serious symptoms and transmission has been reduced for millions, compared with large "control groups", of the unvaccinated, that countries such as the USA have kindly provided, is frankly ludicrous. Or that a technology that has been researched since the 70's based on a medical advance from the 1700's, is "new"! You don't have to have "faith" in big Pharma to accept real world evidence, which is now so extensive as to make the initial trials almost irrevelent.
The real worry is those huge reserviours of unvaccinated, combined with vaccinated people in insufficient numbers, will result in vaccine resistant and/or accelerated mutations, before we have enough people vaccinated worldwide to slow the spread.
I linked to Sydney earlier. High levels of vaccination, masking and restrictions on the unvaccinated appear to be working, despite loosening lock down rules.
You got your vaccine out of "duty". You didn't join the unvaccinated. Despite your reservations.
At risk of falling out with both parties 🙂 I'd like to congratulate RedLogix in that succinct yet comprehensive statement ("I lined up for my vaccination…") which describes my position so very well, but also shout out to KJT who's describing the frustration around Ivermectin (about which the two of you seem to have similar views) and why it has been so passionately and uncritically championed by "the antivaxx crowd" – my own face to face discussions with such folk/friends leaves me lost for words; their vehement support/opposition to either the Pfizer vax or Ivermectin defies rational discussion and therein lies the bewilderment and head-shaking irritation.
The real worry is those huge reserviours of unvaccinated, combined with vaccinated people in insufficient numbers, will result in vaccine resistant and/or accelerated mutations,
Given that C19 cases are still very present in highly vaccinated populations – I'm not at all sure this logic holds up.
Equally likely is the idea that the virus will simply respond to vaccinations as just another evolutionary selection pressure and mutate to escape them. It's hard to blame the unvaxxed for that.
As Covid cases are in the hundreds in vaccinated populations, compared to in the thousands in unvaccinated populations, the evolutionary pressure in vaccinated populations is considerably less. Making the chances of mutations less, by at least an order of magnitude, also. It is all a numbers game.
Would Chris Trotter's latest help? I doubt it 🙂 (Great read though)
"A vast international crisis, the Covid-19 Pandemic, has exposed the irrational underbelly of twenty-first century society. Neuroses and delusions that the majority had reluctantly tolerated (if only because the harm they caused was almost exclusively restricted to those who suffered from them) now threaten the general welfare.
If the violent prejudices of the Jim Crow South, echoing through contemporary struggles, teach us anything, it is that the defence of rationality, science and progressivism must never be allowed to falter. Those pre-modern night-riders, filled with unrelenting hate, are still out there. If the troops of Reason and Justice are withdrawn; if Liberty’s bayonets are sheathed; there will be Hell to pay."
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2021/11/hell-to-pay-alarming-similarities.html
WHO the fuck knows what's going on…
I understood that Ivermectin and the vaccine are/were used at different stages. Vaccine is a preventative against developing full blown Covid. Ivermectin when it is used, and possibly is useful, is at the very start of a Covid infection. It is no use once Covid has left the body but the results of it having been there such as lung problems, kidney problems, covid pneumonia are remaining.
There are some people taking Ivermectin and high doses of vitamins, Hydroxychloroquine, bleach sprays etc as a preventative. Not sure they are effective at all.
.
RL
Perfectly put … cautiously optimistic is the most rational stance given the current evidence. Unfortunately the unhinged hyper-politicisation of Covid means that an innocent drug like Ivermectin that has benefited millions of people worldwide with parasitical diseases has been personified with the face of Donald Trump, & more broadly of US Republican-voting & British Brexit-supporting "deplorables" & various assorted anti-vaxxers.
If Ivermectin does indeed prove to be effective … then tough shit for all those who would've survived … but then again, to be scrupulously fair, petty politically-partisan point-scoring for purely narcissistic objectives is far more important than the potential prevention of millions of deaths.
Well yes.
Just as the vaccine is said to have been vindicated by its millions of doses , so has ivermectin in its millions of doses against covid in Indian regions like Uttar Pradesh.
There is really such a bias and unwillingness to take note of what has been successful in countries other than European
Well no. We haven't been ignoring it. Just that the evidence that ivermectin worked in India is being questioned, by Indian epidemiologists amoungst others.
Just one article.
No evidence suggests a causal link between ivermectin recommendation and the decline of COVID-19 cases in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh – Health Feedback
“The claim that Uttar Pradesh is now COVID-19 free due to the use of ivermectin is inaccurate and unsupported by scientific evidence. Uttar Pradesh isn’t entirely free of COVID-19, and comparisons with other states are challenging due to differences in testing capacity. Furthermore, many factors other than ivermectin use could have influenced the course of the second COVID-19 wave in Uttar Pradesh, including restrictions and immunity from previous infection and vaccination”.
I have not being following the case but when I first heard of it I thought white man shoots black man he will be found nor guilty.
same old same old
Here in the 'Tu, it looks like the vaccinated that are causing the trounle.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300457065/covid19-cases-in-midcentral-region-double-to-four
from the article: "United’s women’s team was not affected, and Hofmann believed all club members were vaccinated."
Yes!
Sanity prevails for a change, Kyle Rittenhouse found Not Guilty on all charges.
Now we await the rioting however I hope Kyle's lawyers go to the mattresses and sue everyone he can
Everyone that called him a white supremacist, a terrorist, a vigilante
Because he's going to need the money as the insane members of the left will not let this go
If the skin colours were reversed what would the outcome of the trial have been?
KJT deleted his post saying that Kyle Rittenhouse (white) shot black people which got me thinking about this post.
See Kyle Rittenhouse (white) shot three white people.
There were no black people shot.
I assumed that people commenting on this case would also know this basic fact yet I guess your comment makes more since if you also thought Kyle shot black people, is that what you thought?
Does it make you wonder what else the msm told you about this case that is not actually the case?
Does it make you wonder what else the msm lies to you about?
No, it is you mixing up the white and black. I am well aware they were all white and my question stands
Go on try again
I answered below (no. 3)
What do black people have to do with it?
The only possible interpretation of your question about reversal is, given that they are all white, "If a white man had shot three white men would the verdict have been different". In other words you are asking what would have happened if nothing had changed. That is the "reversal" of the colour of the parties in this case. Trying to pretend that changing a colour from "white" to "black" is a reversal is ridiculous. What would you call a change from "yellow" to "brown" which of course are both loosely considered to be skin colours?
When you claim that you "knew" they were all white I don't believe you. If you "knew" that you wouldn't have proposed such a silly question. Unless you were an idiot of course. Are you?
I deleted it because I thought for a few minutes it was referring to different murderous arsehole.
However, takes a gun to a protest looking for a fight, then shoots three people.
And he is "innocent" and only "defending himself"?
Pull the other leg.
And he knew they may have been convicted criminals when he administered, “justice”?
And. The Black reference is correct. What would have happened to a Black man who just shot three people, and wandered towards US cops holding a rifle?
No.
You deleted it because you didn't know so you deleted it because you didn't want to look like a chump.
'However, takes a gun to a protest looking for a fight, then shoots three people.'
Please provide proof that he was 'looking for a fight'
'And he knew they may have been convicted criminals when he administered, “justice”?'
He didn't but I just want to make sure everybody knows the type of people they're defending, the type of people at these 'peaceful protests'
'And. The Black reference is correct. What would have happened to a Black man who just shot three people, and wandered towards US cops holding a rifle?'
I'll spin that round, could a white man digitally rape a woman, have an open warrant for sexual assault, ignore police warnings, shake off a taser, kidnap a child, steal a car, get shot and be praised by the media, politicians of both sides of the house and have people riot on his behalf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jacob_Blake
In your dreams, Bro!
But congrats on your spin.
A job with Trump’s propaganda corps awaits you.
Or with ACT’s cut price version.
You want to defend kiddie fiddlers and domestic abusers, you do you bro
Rittenhouse knew that when he shot them.
Sure.
You want to defend someone who shot unarmed people?
Yes.
The kiddie fiddler had threatened Kyle earlier, chased Kyle and tried to grab his rifle off him
The domestic abuser assaulted him twice before Kyle stopped him
The convicted felon aimed an illegal pistol at Kyle before Kyle shot
All verified by witnesses and video evidence
Tried to grab his rifle off him. After he shot someone.
In NZ that would be heroic.
Keep spinning though. You'll drill yourself a well shortly.
Hi KJT.
Remember when you claimed Kyle shot black men and then deleted your post.
Well heres another error you made.
You said: 'Tried to grab his rifle off him. After he shot someone.'
Kyle didn't shoot until 'Mr Rosenbaum' tried to grab the rifle.
Listen I know its tough, I do, I get it. You're arguing with someone you just know is wrong, you just know it.
You don't have any proof, evidence, witness testimony or a conviction but you just know hes wrong and that you're right.
So I'll give you some advice.
In this instance I know more than you.
I know more than you because I followed the trial, not just read a couple of headlines, like you.
I also got information from different news sites, not just CNN, like you.
But by all means keep posting.
Nothing I like more than being right, being proved right and, as an added bonus, proving chumps like you wrong
Whatever delusions float your boat.
A picture speaks a thousand words:
https://imgflip.com/i/4d3h66
I'm guessing this is what you think:
https://progressive.org/downloads/15506/download/Screen%20Shot%202021-01-27%20at%205.57.23%20PM.png?cb=630dcb618b6e43235888c47893a2b31e&w=1260&h=
Actions have consequences:
https://img-comment-fun.9cache.com/media/a7LMv9z/aVlZKWwp_700w_0.jpg
Always good to have a pipboy handy:
https://i.redd.it/lzw4uu0rvrj51.png
Seen this, Pucky? I'm guessing you will have.
Larry Knight
3 September 2020 ·
[rest of over long cut and paste deleted]
What I was trying to say to Pucky.
But he is too blinded by his projection on someone, who has fulfilled his Rambo fantasy of "running around shooting the bad guys" and getting away with it!
"Proved yourself right".
In your own head.
But keep supporting idiot dangerous teens, that fulfilled your own Rambo fantasies.
If that makes you feel better about yourself.
Robert why are you involving yourself in this? Seriously, why?
Do you think someones opinion from last year is somehow a 'silver bullet'?
Fine you want to do this, lets do it.
Heres a link to the ABC news website, not a conservative bunch of people by the way explaining Wisconsin gun laws
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/explainer-judge-drop-rittenhouse-gun-charge-81285031
You can go through it yourself or just read this:
'Hours before closing arguments began on Monday, Judge Bruce Schroeder granted a defense motion to toss out the weapons charge. Rittenhouse attorneys Mark Richards and Corey Chirafisi pointed to an exception in the law that they said allows minors to possess shotguns and rifles as long as they’re not short-barreled.'
'Assistant District Attorney James Kraus argued that the exception renders the state’s prohibition on minors possessing dangerous weapons meaningless. But when he acknowledged that Rittenhouse’s rifle’s barrel was longer than 16 inches, the minimum barrel length allowed under state law, Schroeder dismissed the charge.'
'This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 …” That section of law isn’t specific to minors, but rather forbids any person from having a short-barreled shotgun or rifle.'
Heres another link to the NPR, I'll assume you've heard of them, you might find it educational:
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/19/1057422329/why-legal-experts-were-not-surprised-by-the-rittenhouse-jurys-decision-to-acquit
'The state's own witnesses at times helped Rittenhouse's case'
'Prosecutors called more than a dozen witnesses to help make their case. But legal experts said that, at times, those witnesses seemed to bolster Rittenhouse's self-defense claim.'
'The state called two men who had accompanied Rittenhouse that night, also intending to help protect private property. Both witnesses, Ryan Balch and Jason Lackowski, said Rosenbaum asked to be shot and "false-stepped" armed men in an attempt to provoke a reaction. One described him as "hyperaggressive."
[over long cut and paste deleted]
I'm not wishing to "involve myself" in arguing; I wanted you to see this statement, in case you hadn't.
You wanted me to see his statement from last year.
Why?
To point out how inaccurate it is.
I've previously posted links, with proof and evidence that refutes most of what he says.
So yeah I read it and hes wrong.. Happy?
Fine lets go through it, again, and see why we should wait for all the evidence to come out before someone tries to make a name for themselves.
'I'm seeing a lot of ignorance and misinformation flying around about what happened in Kenosha, and I'm going to set the record straight from a professional legal position… as well as from a former military position.'
– His opinion, as proven in the trial, is mostly incorrect
I'm going to explain some things from a more technical angle derived from my many years as a paralegal and from my experience working in federal criminal justice and prosecution.
– His opinion, as proven in the trial, is mostly incorrect
Legally, if you are in the process of a commission of a crime, it negates your ability to claim self defense if you kill someone.
– His opinion, as proven in the trial, is mostly incorrect so I want him to link to Wisconsin law to verify this.
As in, it can't even be entered as your official defense in court. It is similar to getting rear-ended at a red light through zero fault of your own, but you were driving without a license or insurance. It automatically makes you at fault because you weren't even legally allowed to be driving.
– Kyle Rittenhouse was shown to be threatened, chased and attacked
That 17 year old in Kenosha had committed two crimes and was not even legally allowed to open carry the rifle he used to shoot three people. This means that he legally cannot claim self defense.
– His opinion, as proven in the trial, is mostly incorrect. As proven in the trial he was legally allowed to carry his weapon and his weapon was legal so please tell me the crimes he committed. Innocent until proven guilty remember.
Another key discussion is the Castle Doctrine. Some of you may be vaguely familiar with it, as it is what allows you to use deadly force when someone comes into your house unlawfully, etc. But there are some finer points most people don't realize that you generally have to do some formal legal studies to know.
– The defence didn't use Castle Doctrine
First, as soon as someone sets foot inside the threshold of your home uninvited that you believe intends to commit a crime, you can legally use deadly force and it is immediately considered self defense, even if they haven't made any violent threats or actions towards harming you.
– The defence didn't use Castle Doctrine
This is because in every instance outside your home, you are required to retreat and extricate yourself from a dangerous situation if possible. It is a legal mandate, not a suggestion. Your home is considered the final retreat point, and legally you should be safe in your "Castle." There is nowhere else to retreat to, etc. This is why you are able to immediately use deadly force.
– The defence still didn't use Castle Doctrine
However, it is NOT to protect your property, it is for protecting your LIFE. And once the burglar, for instance, has left your home… the threat to your life is considered neutralized, and deadly force is no longer authorized. So if a burglar runs out the door and down the street with your TV, you are no longer allowed to shoot after them because they are not threatening your life. You call the police, you file a claim with your insurance, and you get a new TV. If you shoot a burglar in the back down the street, you can and should be charged with murder.
– Once again the defence didn't use Castle Doctrine
While you are out in PUBLIC, this means a lot of things obviously. It means that there is far more scrutiny and boxes that must be checked in order to claim self defense. You must be in IMMINENT danger of losing life and limb. Getting into an argument and feeling scared of being punched by an unarmed person? Not likely to be a situation where deadly force is authorized. You MUST retreat.
– Kyle tried to retreat, was chased, his rifle was grabbed at, he was threatened, he was attacked and he had a pistol aimed at him
If someone shoots at you or pulls a knife on you in the street, that is deadly force and can be met with deadly force. But if the person is unarmed, you cannot shoot them because you're afraid of a little scuffle. That is why Rittenhouse illegally shot the first protester, and it is one of the many reasons it cannot be considered self defense. The man threw a plastic bag with trash in it at him AND MISSED, and Rittenhouse shot him. He chased his victim and instigated a fight by brandishing and flagging people with his rifle, because he is an untrained idiot with a gun. The protester was not a threat, and even if he was, all he had to do was retreat back to the police line. He rushed at protesters with a gun drawn to pick a fight, and people are acting as if he were just there to keep the peace.
– 'Little scuffle' He was hit twice with a skateboard, was kicked in the head and had a pistol aimed at him. He also tried to get back to the police, he didn't rush at the protestors and yes you can shoot someone unarmed depending on the circumstances as proven in the trial
He fired INTO A CROWD, and it's a miracle he didn't hit more people. More people that hadn't thrown a plastic bag. More people that were just trying to protest police brutality, which is a real issue in this country.
– He didn't fire INTO A CROWD. He fired in self-defence at the people attempting to harm him, as proven in the trial and on video
And then when he did finally run away, some more protesters attempted to subdue him after he had already murdered someone, he tripped, and shot two people trying to stop him from shooting others.
– He was attempting to run away previously. Also his opinion, again.
The fact that the police didn't arrest him and take him into custody right then and there, even if they suspected it could be self defense, is a grave issue with that police department.
– His opinion, again.
I could further dissect this situation, but for now I'm going to end with people passing around misinformation about the victims being "criminals so they deserved it."
– I suggest he does, especially in the light of the trials findings
First, there are no actual records of Jacob Blake or the people shot by Rittenhouse being in the official sex offender's registry.
– I have not just linked to that?
None of them raped a 14 year old girl years ago, that is complete fabrication being purposely spread by right wing extremist sites in order to try and justify the shootings.
– I've not heard anything about this but Joseph did anally rape young boys
– I took the paragraph of Jacob Blake out because its a separate issue
Rittenhouse's victims do not appear to have had any record, and even if they did, he couldn't have known that at the time.
– Oh yes they did, very much so
You cannot insist a shoot was justified AFTER the fact because "that person was a criminal."
– You can't and I agree however but I'm also not going to shed any tears over a child rapist that got shot while attacking another underage boy (Kyle was 17 at the time)
Criminals have rights too, whether you like it or not, and it is enshrined in the very documents that built our country. If you don't like the constitution and bill of rights, I don't know what to tell you.
– You mean like Kyle Rittenhouse being innocent until proven guilty even though you say he isn't?
This is also not MY OPINION, this is literally how the criminal justice system and our laws work. I hold a degree in paralegal studies and served 8 years as an Army paralegal. I've worked for the criminal division in the Chicago US Attorney's Office, and currently work in federal law enforcement. This is what I do for a living, and I am not pulling this out of my ass, and my knowlege is a culmination of working in the field and being passionate about justice for 16 years. I'd be happy to send you sources and opines and case law and statutes if you need it. I did not get this from "mainstream media," and I am not brainwashed by the left. I'm an independent progressive.
– Considering how wrong he is about this maybe thats why hes not a lawyer
May he face justice for what he did, and may we find a way to get on common ground before more fuses to this powder keg are lit.
– He had a trial and the video evidence, laws of the state, drone footage and witness testimony proved he was innocent of all charges so yes he faced justice.
please don't do such long cut and pastes. A snip, an explanation and link for those that want to read more is the preferred commenting style here.
Sorry, there was just so much incorrect stuff on there I felt I had to answer it all
your own long comments are fine, it's just copying from offsite to here at length that is the problem. For people on phones, and because debate is between our ideas, and it creates problems if someone has to read a long article to understand the point being made.
(also, see if you can make the quotation clearer, because it's possible I deleted some of your own words by mistake. The quote button is good, or use double "" because they're more visible. You need something at the start and the end that clearly show it's a quote. Back in the day we used to do this
>>>
Quoted text
<<<
Hi Robert, thanks for the links, although they are broken. From any FB page, click on the time/date stamp of the post you want to link to. Then cut and paste the address from the URL field.
As with PR's comment below, I deleted most of the quote. A snip or two, an explanation and a link for those that want to read more is the preferred commenting style here.
This makes things easier for people on phones, and it encourages people to make clear arguments rather than expecting people to read long articles to parse what is being said.
I must say, it's great seeing people in these in depth debates again 👍
It would be more interesting if those debating me…actually could.
Given how much information people posted on this subject was wrong and was proven wrong and since they got it from their preferred news sources, do you think any of them will work out that maybe their preferred news source is lying to them and that you might want to expand their horizons, just a little?
I haven't been following that closely. If that's the issue (you think they are wrong in what they're using as a source), maybe just pick one or two examples and focus on those. Fisking is sometimes necessary, but makes it hard to find resolutions or move things forward.
I'm quite enjoying it.
How it normally goes is something like this, he chuckleheads come on say something, usually wrong, I tell them they're wrong with a link to why they're wrong
They come back later, won't acknowledge they're wrong but move onto something else really minor and I prove them wrong, gain, and so on and so on
Its not often I'm 100% correct, that I have the moral high ground, backed up by proof and evidence (and links) and what are these guys reduced to…
Sticking up for child rapists and domestic abusers
Its a funny ol' world
There wouldn’t have been a verdict because there wouldn’t have been a trial because a black guy wouldn’t have made it through the police lines that Rittenhouse walked past after shooting three people.
https://twitter.com/tariqnasheed/status/1298556876804612096
exactly, thanks Joe, that is the point I was aiming at…
What Twitter is serious source now?
Watch the video.
Walking towards police giving the correct hand signal.
Walking towards police carrying a loaded firearm is asking for a death sentence. Even in NZ?
So you are suggesting he was a police operative of some kind? With some sort of pre-arranged signal that all the cops would recognise in a fleeting instant?
My reasoning is that it’s more likely everything on Twitter is deep fake.
that's one interpretation, it's not the only one. We don't actually know.
What are you talking about?
Are you not even aware Kyle shot three white people?
Are you not even aware Kyle was being chased?
Are you not aware Kyle was assaulted before shooting?
Are you not aware one of them actually pointed a pistol at Kyle before he shot?
Good to see you supporting a white supremacist, racist, homophobic thug who likes to gun down civil rights protesters.
And you work as a prison guard, around a population that is predominantly Maori.
I don't think we in the West have any right to complain about human rights in China with fascists like you working in our prisons. I bet you would would to the same as Rittenhouse and Chauvin did if you had the chance.
Millsy
Show me your evidence that Kyle Rittenhouse is a white supremacist, racist, homophobic thug who likes to gun down civil rights protesters.
Because he didn't shoot any black people, he shot white people
He did however shoot a convicted child molester (sodomised some young boys) and a multiple domestic abuser and you know what, just read about it here: https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2021/03/12/kenosha-shooting/
Also I'm not a prison guard
'I bet you would would to the same as Rittenhouse and Chauvin did if you had the chance.'
I don't even know what you're trying to say here
Some time ago, you said you got a job as a prison guard.
The fact is, that you supported Chauvin and you would have killed Floyd if you were in that position. I think you are an evil depraved man and shouldn't be working anywhere in prisons or law enforcement.
I never said I was prison guard Millsy
But keep going because this is fantastic
"He did however shoot a convicted child molester"
So, like, that guy was convicted, imprisoned, released and then justifiably shot?
Pucky? Have you lost the plot entirely??
Millsy called the men shot: 'civil rights protesters', they may have been
I called them a sodomiser of young boys, domestic abusers and convicted felons, which they were
Not saying they deserved death for it but if you're going to paint them in a certain way, which you can't prove, I'll say what they really were, which I can prove.
Absolutely Millsy, that's terrifying, a prison guard in NZ has these attitudes? I'm appalled. Rittenhouse had no right to carry a gun, travelled to another state uninvited, shat himself when confronted, and murdered 2 people, and you come onto a left leaning site to congratulate the wanker? You're really something man, pitiful.
"Rittenhouse had
nothe right to carry a gun, travelled 20 minutesto another state uninvited, shat himself when confronted, andmurdered2 people were killed in self-defence as the evidence showed and you come onto a left leaning site to congratulatethe wanker?the verdict. You're really something man, pitiful."I've edited your comment to remove unsubstantiated claims, or emotive language and it reads differently.
PR wilfully chose a contentious way to raise the issue, I agree. But thanks to millsy's initial jibe about Greenwald, I have looked into it, and found the video evidence that the jury considered in the self-defence, and accepted.
The justice system (which I believe to be flawed in many ways, but that is by-the-by here) should endeavour to convict on points of law. In this case, the prosecution's case did not hold up, for reasons not reported by the majority of the media.
The ability to carry arms is another legal right I have an issue with, but it is legal in many states in the USA.
Still not a prison guard…
So, what is your role? Come clean, don't muck us around any longer…
Corrections officer?
I'm a Corrections Officer.
Do you work in the office?
No. A bit too boring in there for me, prisoner facing is more interesting.
But more to it than 'guarding' these days, I am guessing.
A while back Corrections (or the government) decided that a change of direction was needed.
The old days of locking prisoners up and giving them hidings was a bad thing.
As part of the implementation to cut down on the rate of reoffending Corrections brought out some changes, part of it was to change prison guards (which also has very negative connotations) to Corrections Officers
This is done because thats what management want to have happens, correct prisoners behaviour.
Its only a very small piece of a very big puzzle but I think its important
He purposefully went looking for trouble, he sought it out. Legally he might have got off but morally, he's going to have a lot to live with. Hopefully, he gets taken to the cleaners in a wrongful death suit.
'He purposefully went looking for trouble, he sought it out. Legally he might have got off but morally, he's going to have a lot to live with. Hopefully, he gets taken to the cleaners in a wrongful death suit.'
See thats the MSM talking.
He didn't go looking for trouble, he had a weapon for self-defence and everything he did was legal.
Legal carry, legal weapon. Legal everything.
You know who wasn't doing everything legal, the protestors illegally rioting, the men (multiple) who assaulted Kyle (video footage), the man who threatened Kyle (prosecutions own witness), the man who aimed his pistol at Kyle (illegal ownership of firearm)
You're not informed, you're misinformed.
Do you think it's a good idea for untrained people to legally head off to a trouble hot spot carrying firearms??
'Do you think it's a good idea for untrained people to legally head off to a trouble hot spot carrying firearms??'
How do you know he wasn't trained?
In extreme circumstances he fired 8 shots (including two warning shots) and killed two and wounded one
By anyones reckoning thats impressive, just look at any of the police shootings to see how that stacks up
However I don't think he should have been there BUT thats me, I'm not in that city, my workplace wasn't under attack, I wasn't worried about my father
Kyle did nothing illegal, the rioters did, the people who attacked him chose to attack him, Kyle tried to get away and only fired after he was left with no other option
Kyle legally defended himself
Big difference in being trained to shoot straight and trained in de escalation and not getting isolated.
You are aware that Kyle was legally allowed to carry his rifle while one of the people he shot was illeglly carrying a pistol and Kyle only shot him once he raised the pistol and aimed at Kyle
He came from a different state. He wasn't a local out to protect the property (yes, he wanted to protect property) of people he knew, he knew noone there. All he did was heed the call of social media, a social media that had as its goal to harm Black people.
Have you actually followed the case at all? All you've done is read a few headlines.
'He came from a different state.'
Please explain to me what coming from different state have to do with anything.
Because I'd bet money that not all the rioters come from Kenosha, that some would have had to 'cross state lines' to get there or is this something you've heard from the msm and it sounds ominous?
'he knew noone there'
1. He travelled approximately15 miles to get there
2. He worked in Kenosha.
3. He has family and friends living in Kenosha
'All he did was heed the call of social media, a social media that had as its goal to harm Black people.'
He only shot white people, after he was threatened and assaulted.
Hopefully the prosecution will appeal.
Sure can, its their legal right
They won't let it go because he's just another murderer.
Equal justice wouldn't have seen him walk.
Once again you are wrong.
He was found not guilty so hes not a murderer.
Why do you think it wasn't self defence?
Stuart should remember Helen Clark's little error of this kind. It cost the taxpayer $55,000 when she called someone a murderer. He had been convicted of manslaughter but not murder. This person wasn't convicted of anything.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/cabinet-backing-for-pms-payout/XGLRV2YGY2EW6DBVXWKAYFNWZM/
Isn't it interesting that the three men Kyle shot were all convicted felons and jump kick man:
https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2021/11/16/maurice-freeland-jump-kick-man/
was also convicted felon with probably more convictions than all of them put together
Says a fair bit of the type of person rioting, not that anyone is surprised
It may astonish you to know this PR, but courts are not infallible. You may or may not be aware of the work of The Innocence Project, which works to correct errors made at the other end of the scale, wrongful convictions.
What makes someone a murderer is their act of wrongful killing, and, irrespective of the findings of what even you must admit was a highly politicized case, it looks on the face of it very much like Rittenhouse behaved like a vigilante, dispensing Hollywood justice in his own right.
Rittenhouse seems likely, like OJ Simpson, to attract a degree of scepticism for the rest of his life – assuming the prosecution do not successfully appeal.
You have to stop getting your information from outlets like CNN.
Heres some facts for you may or may not know. This is based on what other people on this site thought.
The prosecutions own witnesses back this up, official drone footage backs this up and smart phone coverage backs this up.
Go through the video footage here:
https://twitter.com/Pr_agmatik/status/1299088221633208321?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1299089444298002432%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthestandard.org.nz%2Fopen-mike-20-11-2021%2F
You have to stop getting your information from outlets like CNN.
You mean relatively reputable sources? Ranting loons like Alex Jones don't do as much for your credibility as you might suppose.
He was legally carrying a legal firearm.
Oh I'm sure that makes all the difference – it's just happenstance he used it to kill three people – could've happened to anyone, right?
The child sodomiser and domestic abuser…
Are to meet justice through the institution of the courts, not summary justice at the hands of a teenage vigilante looking for cheap thrills.
I don't know if you're aware but they had a trial about this very thing and as it turns out I'm right and CNN was wrong, very wrong.
Try looking at more than one source for information and you'll be surprised at what you find.
they had a trial
Your faith in the integrity of US courts is touching, but misplaced. Rittenhouse is in some respects a victim of US dysfunctional gun culture.
Try looking at more than one source for information
They are not needed. One shooting might be happenstance, two coincidence, but three is unequivocally enemy action. Rittenhouse set out to kill people, and that's what he did.
The fact that you are fanboying a murderous child that should be in jail ought to have you thinking long and hard instead of crowing your inanity from the rooftops.
That you won't look at any other sources of information
That you ignore official drone footage
That you ignore footage from people on the ground
That you ignore the laws of the state
That you ignore what the witnesses said
That you defend child molesters and domestic abusers
All of the above says more about you than it does me
I don't know, and you don't know, the truth of the allegations of child molestation – but Rittenhouse did not murder those men to protect children from such abuse, he did so after the fact, when judgment should have been left to the apparatus of the state.
Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there, he shouldn't have been armed with a military weapon, and were he innocent he would have surrendered himself to police after killing his first victim.
I'm not interested in the excuses nor the prodigies of self deception you have to perform to justify the judicial whitewash. Rittenhouse walked through police lines because police didn't want to stop him, and the prosecution failed because it was never intended to succeed.
You are a lying, ignorant or arrogant.
Lie number 1. 'I don't know, and you don't know, the truth of the allegations of child molestation'
I have posted many links to the convictions of these people yet you say we don't know.
Yes we do know the truth, he was convicted.
Heres, another, link to his conviction, try looking at it for a change:
https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2021/03/12/kenosha-shooting/
I'll give you the crib notes.
'Joseph Don Rosenbaum lived in Kenosha. He had an open case for misdemeanor bail jumping that was filed on July 30, 2020.'
The conditions of bond read: “Not to Possess or Consume Alcohol. *Not To Possess or Consume Controlled Substances w/o a Prescription. No contact including the residence, electronic or 3rd party with: Kariann S, Park Ridge Inn.”
Rosenbaum also had open misdemeanor cases for battery (domestic abuse) and disorderly conduct (domestic abuse).
Court documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape, masturbation, oral sex, and showing minors pornography. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal. See those documents here.'
'Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there'
Maybe he should, maybe he shouldn't but he had every legal right to be there, unlike the rioters so that is a pointless statement.
'he shouldn't have been armed with a military weapon'
Another strait up lie, which I've covered previously. He had an AR-15 type rifle. Legal. Not a military weapon.
'and were he innocent he would have surrendered himself to police after killing his first victim.'
You really are a dumb, arrogant dick head. Where do you think Kyle was running when he was being chased, the police is where you was running to you fucking asshole.
Why are you arguing this case when you don't know the first thing about it,
You might have heard of this
group: https://www.npr.org/2021/11/19/1057422329/why-legal-experts-were-not-surprised-by-the-rittenhouse-jurys-decision-to-acquit
Try reading it unless you think NPR is a right wing organisation but really all you need to know is here:
"Mr. Rosenbaum was chasing me. I pointed my gun at him, and that did not deter him. He could have ran away instead of trying to take my gun from me, but he kept chasing me. It didn't stop him," Rittenhouse testified last week.'
'Afterward, Rittenhouse ran away toward a police line, he said during the trial. While he was running, several people started to chase him, including Huber and Grosskreutz. Huber struck Rittenhouse with a skateboard, evidence showed, and Grosskreutz was armed with a Glock pistol.'
Do you get that Stuart? He was running to the police BEFORE he was forced to shoot a child rapist
After he shot a child rapist he CONTINUED to run to the police.
You are a lying, ignorant or arrogant.
Right back at you, vigilante fanboy. Though you deny it – the child molestation was not occurring when Rittenhouse murdered the man you claim had that background – you must find another reason to exculpate Rittenhouse – he was NOT defending children from abuse.
Maybe he should, maybe he shouldn't but he had every legal right to be there, unlike the rioters so that is a pointless statement.
I think you'll find they had every legal right to be there also – just not to riot – but let us not pretend your argument is in any way rational – you exculpate Rittenhouse, not because he is innocent, which he manifestly is not, but because he took up arms against a group protesting the abuse of police power. For some reason you believe in noble cause corruption and qualified immunity – it is this that moves you to forgive Rittenhouse. Perhaps you expect to need qualified immunity yourself at some point.
Another strait up lie, which I've covered previously. He had an AR-15 type rifle. Legal. Not a military weapon.
Bullshit. The AR15 was designed as a military weapon, and is in most respects identical to the M16, the US military's weapon of choice. ArmaLite first developed the AR-15 in the late 1950s as a military rifle, but had limited success in selling it. In 1959 the company sold the design to Colt. You ought to know that lying through your teeth like this does nothing for your argument, except to demonstrate your disrespect for the facts.
You really are a dumb, arrogant dick head.
When you are reduced to abuse, my little cabbage, it is because you have already lost.
"Mr. Rosenbaum was chasing me. I pointed my gun at him, and that did not deter him. He could have ran away instead of trying to take my gun from me, but he kept chasing me. It didn't stop him," Rittenhouse testified last week.'
No doubt Mr Rosenbaum, having watched Rittenhouse murder a fellow citizen, meant to disarm him, in the interests of public safety.
You are a lying, ignorant or arrogant.
'Right back at you, vigilante fanboy. Though you deny it – the child molestation was not occurring when Rittenhouse murdered the man you claim had that background – you must find another reason to exculpate Rittenhouse – he was NOT defending children from abuse.'
Maybe he should, maybe he shouldn't but he had every legal right to be there, unlike the rioters so that is a pointless statement.
'I think you'll find they had every legal right to be there also – just not to riot –'
'but let us not pretend your argument is in any way rational – you exculpate Rittenhouse, not because he is innocent, which he manifestly is not,'
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/19/1057422329/why-legal-experts-were-not-surprised-by-the-rittenhouse-jurys-decision-to-acquit
'but because he took up arms against a group protesting the abuse of police power.'
'For some reason you believe in noble cause corruption and qualified immunity – it is this that moves you to forgive Rittenhouse. Perhaps you expect to need qualified immunity yourself at some point.'
Another strait up lie, which I've covered previously. He had an AR-15 type rifle. Legal. Not a military weapon.
'Bullshit. The AR15 was designed as a military weapon, and is in most respects identical to the M16, the US military's weapon of choice. ArmaLite first developed the AR-15 in the late 1950s as a military rifle, but had limited success in selling it. In 1959 the company sold the design to Colt. You ought to know that lying through your teeth like this does nothing for your argument, except to demonstrate your disrespect for the facts.'
You think you can jump on google and find a link to prove your point. I've been dealing with people like you (ignorant and arrogant) for a very long time.
As you yourself stated the AR-15 was developed by Armalite as a military rifle. Fact.
But Kyle was not carrying a military Armalite AR-15. Fact
He was carrying a legal, civilian, Smith & Wesson AR-15 style rifle. Fact
You know virtually nothing about firearms. Fact.
I use links to show proof to others of what I already know. Fact.
You use links because you don't know. Fact.
Now I know what you're going to say next. Yes accuracy in trials matters and yes there is a difference, allow me to explain:
Heres the Trekka, looks like a Land Rover but is not the same thing as a Land Rover
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trekka
You really are a dumb, arrogant dick head.
"Mr. Rosenbaum was chasing me. I pointed my gun at him, and that did not deter him. He could have ran away instead of trying to take my gun from me, but he kept chasing me. It didn't stop him," Rittenhouse testified last week.'
'No doubt Mr Rosenbaum, having watched Rittenhouse murder a fellow citizen, meant to disarm him, in the interests of public safety.'
Also you're assuming what the noted child rapist and domestic abuser (noted to show how violent he is and how he lacks empathy) was thinking whereas I on the other hand am going off what 'Mr Rosenbaum' said previously in the night when he said if he saw Kyle alone he would kill him
I have the trial outcome
I have the prosecutions own witness testimony
I have drone footage
I have smart phone footage
You have nothing, nothing at all
Gosh you're full of yourself – and it is unbecoming in a moral teenager, a prating knave who endorses vigilantism.
My pointing out that the child anal rapist is a child anal rapist is to counter the claims that hes a peaceful, civil rights protester
Ah, so defaming the victim to lessen the gravity of Rittenhouse's murder formed no part of your motivation? The mens rea is so thick you're soaking in it.
An AR15 is a military firearm, no matter how you may try to deny it – and therein lies much of its appeal to deranged vigilantes. The technicality you're trying to push is less than wafer thin – it simply isn't substantial enough to support the nonsense you are trying to hang from it. Had your argument broad legitimacy you would not be constantly reduced to grasping at such flimsy technicalities.
Thank you for proving my point. Protest yes but rioting no and they were rioting.
Well someone would have to, because you couldn't sustain an argument through a wet paper bag. But of course Rittenhouse's rights are likewise curtailed when he presents that firearm, threatens to kill, does in fact kill, and so on.
He was running to the police BEFORE he was forced to shoot a child rapist
He was running to the police having threatened a civilian with a weapon, and failed to deter him. The child molestation is just your post facto get out of jail free card.
'Gosh you're full of yourself – and it is unbecoming in a moral teenager, a prating knave who endorses vigilantism.'
– Being that I'm the one linking to evidence, testimony, video evidence, drone evidence and factual information and at no point have I endorsed vigilantism (please find proof where I did, shouldn't be too hard to locate) I'll take what you say with a reasonably large grain of salt
My pointing out that the child anal rapist is a child anal rapist is to counter the claims that hes a peaceful, civil rights protester
'Ah, so defaming the victim to lessen the gravity of Rittenhouse's murder formed no part of your motivation?'
– What a stupid thing to say, as the trial proved Kyle is not a murderer.
The mens rea is so thick you're soaking in it.
– I'll point you towards the trial, its outcomes and the evidence
An AR15 is a military firearm, no matter how you may try to deny it – and therein lies much of its appeal to deranged vigilantes.
– The AR-15 (without getting too technical) is the civilian variant of the M4. It is legally sold to civilians because it can only be fired in semi-automatic mode.
'The technicality you're trying to push is less than wafer thin – it simply isn't substantial enough to support the nonsense you are trying to hang from it.'
– Facts matter, you don't like it but facts matter. He was carrying a legal, AR-15 type rifle. As you yourself said AR-15 is a military rifle made by the Armalite company.
– Kyle was carrying a Smith and Wesson AR-15 TYPE rifle, completely legal.
'Had your argument broad legitimacy you would not be constantly reduced to grasping at such flimsy technicalities.'
– Sorry if I think accuracy is important in a murder trial
Thank you for proving my point. Protest yes but rioting no and they were rioting.
'Well someone would have to, because you couldn't sustain an argument through a wet paper bag.'
– Interestingly enough my arguments are quite similar to the defences, yours are similar to the prosecutions
– Kyle found, correctly, not guilty, funny that. also from NPR since you must have missed it earlier (probably deliberately):
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/19/1057422329/why-legal-experts-were-not-surprised-by-the-rittenhouse-jurys-decision-to-acquit
'But of course Rittenhouse's rights are likewise curtailed when he presents that firearm, threatens to kill, does in fact kill, and so on.'
– Another lie. Kyle never threatened to kill. 'Mr Rosenbaum' had earlier in the night threatened to kill Kyle.
He was running to the police BEFORE he was forced to shoot a child rapist
'He was running to the police having threatened a civilian with a weapon, and failed to deter him.'
– Why are you trying to prove me right and yourself wrong?
– Yes he was trying to get to the police. He wanted to get to the police so he wouldn't have to shoot anyone but 'Mr Rosenbaum' chased him
– Yes he aimed the rifle at 'Mr Rosenbaum' because he wanted 'Mr Rosenbaum' to stop chasing him
– He wanted 'Mr Rosenbaum to not chase him because 'Mr Rosenbaum' threatened Kyles life
– Look I don't need your help proving you know nothing about this case but thank you anyway
'The child molestation is just your post facto get out of jail free card.'
– The evidence, the witnesses, the video footage, the drone footage were Kyles get out of jail card.
– Also 'Mr Rosenbaum' died as he lived, trying to touch an unwilling minor, unfortunately for 'Mr Rosenbaum' this minor was able to protect himself.
My pointing out that the child anal rapist is a child anal rapist is to counter the claims that hes a peaceful, civil rights protester
'Ah, so defaming the victim to lessen the gravity of Rittenhouse's murder formed no part of your motivation?'
– What a stupid thing to say, as the trial proved Kyle is not a murderer. T
he trial proved nothing of the sort.
The mens rea is so thick you're soaking in it.
– I'll point you towards the trial,
Having no rational argument to support your contentions.
An AR15 is a military firearm, no matter how you may try to deny it – and therein lies much of its appeal to deranged vigilantes.
– The AR-15 (without getting too technical) is the civilian variant of the M4. It is legally sold to civilians because it can only be fired in semi-automatic mode.
'The technicality you're trying to push is less than wafer thin – it simply isn't substantial enough to support the nonsense you are trying to hang from it.'
– Facts matter, you don't like it but facts matter. He was carrying a legal, AR-15 type rifle. As you yourself said AR-15 is a military rifle made by the Armalite company.
– Kyle was carrying a Smith and Wesson AR-15 TYPE rifle, completely legal.
red herring – the legality of the weapon is not in dispute the AR15 or AR15 styled rifle remains the weapon of choice for vigilantes such as the Christchurch shooter and your latest unsavoury obsession, the murderer Rittenhouse. They are chosen because of the similarities between their design and the M16.
Yes, they no longer fire full automatic – but they were designed as a military assault rifle by a military supplier for a military customer. In most respects they are still that military assault rifle. These facts matter PR, and your determination to set them aside is consistent with the general dishonesty that means most of us don't believe a damned thing you say – links or no links.
'Had your argument broad legitimacy you would not be constantly reduced to grasping at such flimsy technicalities.'
Sorry if I think accuracy is important in a murder trial – gosh a rhetorical flourish! who'd have thought you had it in you! You're not in a murder trial PR, you're in a discussion, trying to salvage the shreds of your credibility for fanboying a vigilante, and by extension the dysfunctional US system that created him.
– Interestingly enough my arguments are quite similar to the defences, yours are similar to the prosecutions
'But of course Rittenhouse's rights are likewise curtailed when he presents that firearm, threatens to kill, does in fact kill, and so on.'
– Another lie. Kyle never threatened to kill. 'Mr Rosenbaum' had earlier in the night threatened to kill Kyle.
A presented firearm carries an implicit threat.
He was running to the police BEFORE he was forced to shoot a child rapist
He was running to the police BEFORE he chose to shoot a man he had threatened with a rifle. fixed it for you.
– Yes he was trying to get to the police. He wanted to get to the police so he wouldn't have to shoot anyone but 'Mr Rosenbaum' chased him
– Yes he was trying to get to the police. He wanted to get to the police so that he wouldn't beaten and killed by the men he had menaced with his rifle.
– Look I don't need your help
Brother, you need all the help you can get. I imagine you 'need' an AR15 'styled' rifle too.
'The child molestation is just your post facto get out of jail free card.'
– The evidence, the witnesses, the video footage, the drone footage were Kyles get out of jail card. – I imagine the gun lobby, and political parties had some influence too – but there is no mystery in Rittenhouse's release – the US plays by very different rules. It is you that need the get out of jail card, as you applaud the death by violence of a fellow human being, who, absent Rittenhouse's reckless provocation of a crowd, would probably still be alive.
Were that the case you would not have felt obliged to mention that the child molestation at every opportunity, as if it somehow made the victim
– Also 'Mr Rosenbaum' died as he lived, trying to touch an unwilling minor, unfortunately for 'Mr Rosenbaum' this minor was able to protect himself.
By shooting Rosenberg dead, together with some other members of the public – vigilantism victory! And you're smiling – so why do you imagine you escape the label vigilante fanboy? You patently are one.
Please explain why you know better:
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/19/1057422329/why-legal-experts-were-not-surprised-by-the-rittenhouse-jurys-decision-to-acquit
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/explainer-judge-drop-rittenhouse-gun-charge-81285031
Also for s**ts and giggles:
Please explain why you know better:
I already have explained – at some length I might add – but you are either too obtuse, or too smug in your celebration of vigilantism to get it. Ultimately I suppose it is simply in accord with the rest of your sociopathic rightwing nonsense.
Gran Torino probably did it better anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HisV1xUcIFI
All charges?
Including possession of a dangerous weapon by a person aged under 18?
So he shot three people in self defense using a weapon that wasn't actually in his possession?
Seems legit, lolk
Well hey now its the noted expert on Wisconsin gun laws McFlock, throwing links out like hes Tiger Woods so lets just have a look at the link hes provided…
Damn dude looks like you got me with a link to ABC dated 11 Nov 21, theres no way this can be refuted.
Unless…you have a link from ABC dated 20 Nov 21, which I just happen to have:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/explainer-judge-drop-rittenhouse-gun-charge-81285031
'Hours before closing arguments began on Monday, Judge Bruce Schroeder granted a defense motion to toss out the weapons charge. Rittenhouse attorneys Mark Richards and Corey Chirafisi pointed to an exception in the law that they said allows minors to possess shotguns and rifles as long as they’re not short-barreled.'
'Assistant District Attorney James Kraus argued that the exception renders the state’s prohibition on minors possessing dangerous weapons meaningless. But when he acknowledged that Rittenhouse’s rifle’s barrel was longer than 16 inches, the minimum barrel length allowed under state law, Schroeder dismissed the charge.'
'This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 …” That section of law isn’t specific to minors, but rather forbids any person from having a short-barreled shotgun or rifle.'
Fair call. Unlike you, I haven't been obsessing over the case.
They do have funny laws, judges, and juries over there.
I do think its an important issue so that helps
It's biggest importance was in showing, again, the sort of people US "self defense" laws are intended to protect.
'It's biggest importance was in showing, again, the sort of people US "self defense" laws are intended to protect.'
People going about their lawful and legal business that are then attacked?
You can't win this.
Bit circular there, because apparently running around with firearms and pointing them at people is lawful and legal, and getting scared when they respond accordingly is enough excuse to lawfully and legally shoot them dead.
Oh McFlock, McFlock, McFlock, are you enjoying this spanking I'm giving you?
See the thing is you didn't follow the trial at all.
You know that I did and yet you still try to put out these proven lies.
Kyle wasn't 'running around with firearms and pointing them at people' in fact once the trouble started he tried to run away, run away to the police
The trouble started when the sodomiser of children (just so you know who you're defending) threatened Kyle saying that he'd kill him if he got him alone
This information came from the prosecutions own witness
Just what "spanking" you're doing at the moment is none of my concern.
Maybe there will be appeals, maybe civil trials. But Rittenhouse still took a gun to a riot and shot three people. Jury or not, I won't be inviting him to dinner any time soon.
As for "lies", didn't the prosecutor say that Rittenhouse pointed guns at people? Was the prosecutor "lying", too?
'Just what "spanking" you're doing at the moment is none of my concern.'
You know you like it
'Maybe there will be appeals, maybe civil trials'
Sure. Its their legal right to do so
'But Rittenhouse still took a gun to a riot and shot three people.'
But Rittenhouse still took a gun, which according to the laws of the state and decided in court that he was in the legal right to do, to a riot and shot three people.
Woah, woah, woah just a second there buddy, it wasn't a riot because riots are illegal.
I was informed by the impartial and very honest CNN that these were 'mostly peaceful' protests
https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/08/1862/1048/CNN-Headline-Fiery-2.jpg?ve=1&tl=1
'As for "lies", didn't the prosecutor say that Rittenhouse pointed guns at people? Was the prosecutor "lying", too?'
He did when he, finally, had to defend himself. You've made it sound like he was going around aiming at people for the lols
Also just because: https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/174642-mostly-clueless-kool-aid-drinkers-the-meme/
"When he had to".
Not sure that got the same level of test it would have had in NZ.
'Not sure that got the same level of test it would have had in NZ.'
Yeah its almost like this happened in a different country with a different culture and laws to our own
Which kind of puts paid to your "He was found not guilty so hes not a murderer" thing.
By Wisconsin standards, he's not a murderer, or even a manslaughterer(? I guess that's the term). But that's not saying a huge amount. Even by US standards.
'By
Wisconsinany reasonable persons standards, he's not a murderer, or even a manslaughterer?Maybe some reasonable people could se it that way, if they squint really hard. But that depends on a generous interpretation of "reasonable".
'Maybe some reasonable people could se it that way, if they squint really hard. But that depends on a generous interpretation of "reasonable"
I know right, I mean even though the video footage backed up what Kyle said, even though the prosecution witnesses backed up what Kyle said, even though the laws backed up Kyle and even though 'activists' and news outlets were trying to find out the ids of the jurors…surely only an 'unreasonable' person would find Kyle not guilty
That's not actually what I said.
You switched this into a discussion about reasonableness rather than the vagaries of different legal jurisdictions and their respective burdens of proof for self defense arguments. Fair enough.
Reasonableness is much more subjective. Personally, I think grabbing a gun and running to a scene of civil disorder to protect property is unreasonable. But I can see how another reasonable person might disagree. But they'd have a significantly different values system.
I can't believe anyone would put a link up to arch nutter Alex Jones of Infowars as if it will add anything to anything. Even Wiki in its short pen portrait says he is known for the 'Promotion of multiple right-wing conspiracy theories'.
Presumably you are putting it up just to give us all a laugh. I actually don't find him funny just demented
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones
I'm waiting for someone to round up these do*ks who persist in wearing their caps back to front. Followed by the sunglasses, cap back to front and hoodies over the top of the cap crowd, preferably worn inside a car. These outrages against fashion and world wide copy catting deserve the severest of punishment./sarc.
Truly sad is to see guys whose age should tell them better (say over 12years) continuing to do this. Perhaps Rittenhouse will be encouraged to lift himself above the do*k level crowds and throw his cap away.
Sorry McFlock ,,, theirs no reply button ….@ PR
they are known as MSSA the M says it all,I hope you have handed yours in as supposed to. .
A black guy shooting three other black guys in self defence?
The same verdict because the actual evidence (not the media evidence) was overwhelming in favour of the defence
Dagnabbit, that was to vto
PR look above.
Thank you for that, I've never heard that before. MSSA. Interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossover_(automobile)
'Compared to truck-based SUVs, they typically have better interior comfort, a more comfortable ride, better fuel economy, and lower manufacturing costs, but also inferior off-road and towing capability'
Crossover SUVs look like SUVs but are different to SUVs
AR-15s look like Military (Assault) rifles but are different to Military (Assault) rifles
The first S in MSSA (style) says it all
Their is you problem most people see these things as they see them MSSA,which by the way is/was the bain of our gun law.,
?
This Athena Swan charter sounds disturbingly similar to Stonewall's Equality index, and has been adopted by The Higher Education Authority (HEA) of Ireland.
Critics of free speech on this site will be pleased that these threats are unnecessary as Dublin University already has the matter in hand.
So how do you guys feel about your hero, Glenn Greenwald in the knowledge that he defends white supremacists who gun down civil rights protesters?
Go back to sleep, then when you wake up have a look at the video footage from the trail (specifically where Kyle is kicked, assaulted and has an illegal pistol aimed at him), read some coverage that isn't CNN and then come back and post again
Why dont you just admit that you want the USA to return to the good old days of lynching, segregation and Jim Crow. Which is the ultamite goal of the likes of Rittenhouse and Greenwald.
I suppose you think George Floyd deserved to die as well.
[RL: You are tolerated as the unhinged nutter that brings a little colour to every site – but your personal attacks here are over the line. Last warning.]
Mod note for you.
Hey RL I'm all good with it if that helps
Thanks – it's not necessarily you I'm acting in defense of.
And I’ve just noticed that weka has him in pre-mod – so my warning was redundant anyhow.
I find him funny more than anything else, you just can't take him seriously at all
millsy, like many in long-term relationships, I don't agree with my partner of 35 years on everything.
I don't even agree with myself from five years ago on some things.
If you abandon your expectation to find conformity and agreement in all things, then you'll understand how I can still appreciate Greenwalds work on Snowden and Assange while comprehending how law works, and the application of it matters even when we don't like the outcome. The inequality in representation demands scrutiny here too.
The fact that this teen deliberately armed himself and crossed counties to attend this protest deserves analysis regardless.
Given millsy's reference, here's Greenwald himself discussing the trial.
Might pay to have a look.
… and his article for the readers…
Kyle Rittenhouse, Project Veritas, and the Inability to Think in Terms of Principles
.
Greenwald's views are grounded in solid left-wing principles that take precedence over petty partisan politics … he has the integrity / honesty / courage to recognise & acutely critique the now very obvious Upper-Middle capture of the Left & how this is fundamentally subverting genuine traditional Social Democratic principles for its own narcissistic self-interest. Little more than a Vanity Project that viciously scapegoats whole swathes of the lower income, while further consolidating their own power, status & financial privilege. The Right & the political elites of the "Left" are increasingly just two warring sides of the same self-interested Establishment.
@swordfish, I take it you watched the video too, or, unlike me, have been following this case closely and critically.
I had to pause and do a few searches for the video footage etc, while watching to check, but I couldn't find any evidence that what Greenwald says in that video was inaccurate or biased.
Life is not black and white. People we love and admire can do the wrong thing, and conversely, people we don't like are not always guilty.
Hi Molly
The weapon was in Kenosha, Kyle works in Kenosha and his father lives and works in Kenosha.
The travel time is approximately 20 minutes
This hogwash about crossing state lines was an attempt to make it sound more 'sinister' then it really was
Should Kyle have been there.
I'd say no but he had the right to be there, nor was his weapon illegal nor was it illegal for him to carry the weapon.
It was illegal for the sodomiser of children to threaten to kill Kyle, it was illegal for the multiple domestic abuser to assault Kyle and it was illegal for the convicted felon to aim an illegal pistol at Kyle
But it was legal for Kyle to defend himself which he did with extremely good weapon control.
Just listening to Greenwald now.
Probably will find myself disagreeing with myself of an hour ago,
Thanks to millsy for making me look for the links.
I know as a devout homophobic wife beating creationist Christian, you think that people should be eternally punished for their crimes in both this life and the next, but in the secular world, these guys had served their time and paid their debt to society. The fact of the matter is that they were marching for civil rights and liberties, something that right wing Trump supporters like you cannot get your head round. Rittenhouse is a KKK sympathizing racist who thinks that minorities have too much rights and wants to return to the days of lynching and segregation. Like you
That actually made my day
Yes, you have persuaded Millsy to examine his prejudices and repent for his sins.
Now that he has admitted where his opinions come from he may find the way to redemption. After all Millsy admits his faults when he says "I know as a devout homophobic wife beating creationist Christian".
Its a lie because I highly doubt he has a wife, in fact I'd bet he couldn't even get laid on nzdating
Read that again. The full sentence makes that clear.
'devout homophobic wife beating creationist christian'
Do I need to point out here that I'm not:
1. devout
2. homophobic
3. a domestic abuser (interestingly enough three of the four guys Kyle shot at have been charged with domestic assault)
4. a creationist
5. christian
I am married so he got that right
Why don't you quote the full sentence which starts with "I know"?
However I still am quoting him fairly. He probably didn't mean to make such a confession but he did say it.
If I wrote a sentence that said “I know, as a totally degenerate alcoholic, that you can’t drink in moderation” the you wouldn’t be about other people it would be about the person who had written the “I”.
As a true wowser of course I never drink to excess. I also never lie. I follow in the path of St Jacinda.
Perfect response PR from that pile of words from Millsy (even if it was sarc)
You can't help but smile when Millsy gets wound up and loses the plot
Why are you going into bat for that guy, Pucky?
To fill in a boring Saturday morning fishing for bites,is my guess.
Actually I'm on a nice drive but it could also be its something I think is quite important
Kyle was innocent.
Isn't that enough?
The MSM were after him
The Democrat party were after him
Our tech overlords were after him
Hollywood was after him.
The presumption of innocence was on his side or should have been
The evidence showed what happened yet, as shown by some on this site, people still think he's guilty
Doesn't that bother you at all?
“…….The MSM were after him
The Democrat party were after him
Our tech overlords were after him
Hollywood was after him……….”
These people that you hate are the last people that are willing to stand up and defend civil rights in the USA.
Its clearly obvious that Kyle's supporters, including yourself, want to return to the days of lynching, segreation and Jim Crow, where blacks were lynched for whistling at a white women, or forbidden from access services in 'White' areas.
Your mate Donald John Trump, his cabinet and his supporters were all set to impose a theocracy which white supramacist characteristics,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws
'Southern laws were enacted in the late 19th and early 20th centuries by white Southern Democrat-dominated state legislatures to disenfranchise and remove political and economic gains made by black people during the Reconstruction period.'
A link always helps to know what you are talking about, especially if you are making claims about a controversial public figure
It's all over his Twitter feed. Guy has moved to the right. He supports Trump and wants cops to go round killing whoever they want
[in which case you could easily have posted a link. Please post links to your support your assertions now. I’m aware of GG’s positions, but this isn’t FB, we want informed debate here which means having access to what you are basing your opinions on – weka]
Watch the video by Greenwald himself for context.
https://rumble.com/embed/vmvhkl/?pub=4
The prosecution failed to prove murder as the evidence was not supportive of conviction.
Greenwald needs to realise that the people who he insists on defending are those that will gladly beat and murder him for being gay.
The guy stopped caring about civil rights long ago and now wants Trump back in.
[“and now wants Trump back in” definitely needs a direct citation. Popping you in premod until that happens – weka]
[Millsy quote from the sin bin: “Ok, I retract my statements about Greenwald.”]
mod note #2
Don't stop Millsy you've got them on the ropes
Keep it coming
Weka – perhaps you might read this piece on the Daily Beast Published in June this year.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-glenn-greenwald-the-new-master-of-right-wing-media
It seems it's all about money (around $2 mill US a year)
thanks. I'm aware of the controversy around Greenwald's views. I'm asking Millsy to up his game and present evidence that Greenwald wants Trump back in. This is about TS debate culture. Millsy knows better.
are you going to respond to moderation?
… in addition, evidence supported self-defence.
Whether I believe in the right to carry arms, as PR pointed out it is legal.
Do I think there is a problem with this teen's choices – yes – but he can't be convicted for murder on that.
Watch the video to get the full picture of why Greenwald has his position.
Greenwald needs to realise that the people who he insists on defending are those that will gladly beat and murder him for being gay.
The guy stopped caring about civil rights long ago and now wants Trump back in
Both those statements are irrelevant to the discussion, BTW.
mod note.
.
millsy
At the risk of incurring a mod note … can I just say that like so many Woke dogmatists … you're bordering on the unhinged … divorced from cold hard social reality … big on using social media for grandstanding & ostentatious prestige enhancement to impress your fellow dogmatists … hence the usual crude, sociopathic, intellectually lazy bullshit: entire demographics apparently eternally innocent & virtuous / other demographics entirely evil … Zero nuance & zero rationality going on your hippocampus.
Nothing unusual Millsy as always been prone to hyperbolic positions that are some distance from reality.
At least he's given up on the piano wire
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/453438/government-releases-consultation-document-ahead-of-emissions-reduction-plan
https://action.greens.org.nz/strengthen_the_erp
Please engage with the climate change processes already ongoing, make a submission to the emissions reduction plan. Closes 24 Nov 2021. The Greens provide a simplified form and a more comprehensive form above, or if you prefer the Ministry of the Environment form:
https://consult.environment.govt.nz/climate/emissions-reduction-plan/consultation/
I wont be doing a submission, but if I was it would be around lowering the deer ,goat population significantly, huge amounts of native forest is effectively "dead bush standing " with any young growth not getting a start, I'd prefer its done as meat recovery.
That’s a perfect submission, I encourage you to do it. Is there any particular reason why you feel your views aren’t worth contributing?
This is one of the few opportunities we have to communicate our desires for Govt action on climate change, it only need take 10-15mins and it’s imperative the plan is as ambitious and as democratic as possible. This Govt has shown it needs to be pushed, and we can do it through this process, rather than complain about their inaction after the fact.
As far as the things we can do to prevent the worst of climate change go, this one is the low-hanging fruit and I strongly urge everyone to make a submission.
I figured one would need to turn my 1 paragraph into a wordy 2 page document to be taken seriously,
Not at all, check out the simplified form at https://action.greens.org.nz/strengthen_the_erp just add and delete as appropriate. There's no requirement for length!
I think that if we all made a submission, the shear scale of the engagement would be taken seriously.
I hate the whole concept of the ets, its achieved nothing to date, is this sub mission up for removing nz from the ets and having any carbon tax spent in nz on real science and actions to reduce our footprint??
It comes across as leading me down a path to get the answers they want.
Select committees love short, focused submissions. Go for it.
Reading through the official submission trying to understand it ,so far I'm upto question 83!!!
Can one cherry pick the bits they want to fill in?
Very much so.
Na, extend yourself and put in a submission, there's plenty of evidence that pests are costing the country a lot in ghg emissions.
You've got a unique and valid view point and can think logically and succinctly. Despite what the grammar nazis think you get your point across in your voice / style.
Yip I reckon it'd be far better to spend some of the carbon tax supporting farmers to fence and control pests out of remnant native areas than send that money of to Bolsanaro in brazil.
But the nz left is so anti rural they'd rather see is hearded of to the cities in the last great clearance and the lad become a waste land of untended pines, !!
I see q 112 covers the very topic of pests
That's your one to respond on then.
Definitely a bit of homework for the evenings this week . Thanks to you supportive people .
Go for it. You talk sense.
This is Pickles, a baby pukeko about 8 weeks old. He’d only just learned to swim properly and was getting independent. He spent the night on the far stream bank (parenga), & it rained that night, and was still raining in this scene.
His family of two adult male & one female pukekos were over on my side, getting a handout of wheat grains from me. They can easily fly over a flooded stream.
Pickles had only ever swum in the stream before when the wai was flowing slow and gentle. He has no idea swimming across this rushing torrent was a totally different matter, & gets swept away downstream
The others all stopped eating immediately & ran off along the parenga downstream to rescue him. They came back about 5 minutes later with Pickles following along behind, none the worse for wear, and a little wiser. 🙂
"A Belemnite is an opalised, fossilized Squid that has been discovered mainly in Coober Pedy, South Australia. Formed over about 100 million years, these fossilized opals are very rare. They are an extinct order of Squid that existed from the late Triassic to late Cretaceous period on Earth."
Wow! That, I did not know! They are gorgeous!
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=2948300868833620&set=gm.1310078859452226
nice
very cool!
Learn something new every day. Ta very interesting.
Manchester Pride now requires its attendees to take this Humanity Pledge before attending events:
Brings to mind that classic song:
https://youtu.be/mRCe5L1imxg?t=19
.
For some reason, it made me of this one
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dPSZJ3xH5sA
🙄 God I'm a frackin hopeless proof-reader 😠
* made me think of this one
.
Ah, Gezza.
Spent over an hour of my life unproductively last night, watching these Youtube videos:
Like a life flashback in song snippets, notwithstanding the American ratings.
So cool, Molly
Our geneneration was absolutely spoiled for music. So many styles and innovations; it all just exploded out from the 60s on into the 80s.
Every one of them carefully groomed and managed and MARKETED and how many more unsung singers sang and angels on earth recited ?
Nostalgia trip for me listening to songs that were present at certain times. (Though I agree, some of my more vivid personal recollections are friends, family and the occasional stranger singing with gusto rather than polish.)
Not all of them. For quite a few it was a hard slog, then a lucky break.
Guessing you're a glass half empty kinda guy. These days I try to be more of a glass half full type. Life's lived happier with that attitude.
Very sad but important story in the Herald today:
A mother and her baby died in Auckland Hospital. This is what went wrong.
Having received treatment in both the ADHB and Counties DHB over the last year, both while in lockdown and out of it, my personal experience has been of a disjointed below par delivery.
In addition to ICU capacity, these failings will make the medical response to Covid start on the back foot.
Absolutely tragic and so terribly sad. I don't understand why they ignored her pain. It's not a symptom of morning sickness.
Over two decades ago, was in the maternity ward with three other mothers. I opted to keep my bassinet by my bed. Two of the others alternated with that and the nursery. It was only just before leaving I heard the nurse speak to the remaining patient and discovered her child was stillborn.
The cruelty of it floored me.
See Tamaki is breaking bail condtions
Destiny Church leader Brian Tamaki has addressed protesters in Auckland Domain during “National Compassion Day”, an event railing against vaccine mandates.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300458896/antivaccine-mandate-protesters-gather-for-national-compassion-day
As much as I'd like the police to drag his sorry arse off to jail ,itll just rouse his muppet followers, hit him where it hurts in his wallet!!!
But but but he says he poor!!
From that Stuff story, a perfect explanation of why the mandates are necessary – to save lives:
"Among the speakers was Papakura High School deputy principal Kelly Te Ariki, who said she is losing her job due to the mandate. She said she last attended school on November 15 before she and several other staff were no longer allowed on site, presumably due to their vaccine stance.
She did not explicitly mention Covid-19 vaccines but congratulated others who have chosen not to receive the shot. (italics added)
“We’re showing that we’re practising what we preach,” she said."
Yes bizzare!!
Kelly Te Ariki said she is losing her job due to the mandate. Another way of putting that is to say she is losing her job because she won't have a vaccination.
Who could have forseen that after he ignored them the first time. Some judges must be on crack.
there's a process to go through? Now they can revoke his bail? Weird that Stuff aren't saying what the consequences of bail breach would be.
To vto
You asked me: 'If the skin colours were reversed what would the outcome of the trial have been?
IMHO
If it was a black man shooting other black men then chances are we probably wouldn't hear about it
If it was a white man shooting black men then Kenosha would probably be burning right now
If it was a black man shooting white men then probably something like this:
https://kstp.com/news/saint-paul-man-who-shot-at-minneapolis-police-in-self-defense-acquitted-of-all-charges-by-jury/6224974/
Don't be silly. You're not ignorant of the reality in the USA, you don't need to pretend to be.
Searching for an individual case to deny an overwhelming historical pattern is bad faith at best.
You want to know how silly this really is?
This all started when Jacob Blake was shot by the police but have a read about the rest it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jacob_Blake
This is what people were rioting about
There is an opinion piece on Stuff saying that overseas NZ citizens should have a greater right to MIQ then NZ-based NZ citizens.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/127011028/people-in-nz-should-not-have-same-right-to-miq
So, yea, screw that. If overseas citizens are paying NZ tax, paying off their students loans and paying off all their other obligations then they can have the same rights to MIQ as NZ-based NZ citizens. Screw that judgemental attitude about why NZ-based NZ citizens are going and returning to NZ.
MiQ is rationed. Who should get priority? We got delta from people coming through the border, and we are now gearing up for covid deaths and hospital overrun. I think there needs to be a bloody good reason to be leaving and coming back in again. Funerals and sick relatives, not holidays and unnecessary business trips. It's too soon, we don't actually know how effective the vaccine, other tools and traffic light system is going to be.
I had read about Stella O'Malley's 2018 documentary : Trans Kids. It's time to talk, but have only just watched it.
Bit dated, but its here for those interested,
Thanks Molly, by coincidence I watched her submission to the Conversion Practices Bill.
She was stunning and her points very difficult to overlook. I think even the very biased Labour Women couldn't help but listen. God knows their treatment of other people presenting who didn't support the bill was appalling.
The USA the only country in the world where it is legal for civilians to hunt and kill human beings.
Arming himself with a military style assault rifle Kyle Rittenhouse drives 20 miles between his home in Antioch to nearby Kenosha and shoots three people, killing two.. And walked away without even a conviction.
If Kyle Rittenhouse had driven 20 miles to hunt and shoot three deer he would have been fined possibly even jailed.
Another liar telling more lies, are the drugs kicking in early today?
Watch this and then see if you still hold the same views:
Ben Shapiro? Seriously?
Plot, lost.
How about, and this is just a suggestion, you try listening to what he has to say before you decide hes wrong
Or not, your choice
I could ignore all previous evidence of Mr Shapiro, going back years – sure.
I could also replace my Weetbix with dog turds, to find out if it is a delicious alternative.
On the one hand … "you don't know until you've tried".
On the other hand … logic, reason, knowledge and experience. The brain is a useful tool for making good decisions. That's why I stick with Weetbix.
Yeah wouldn't want to hear anything that might change your mind would you.
#bluepill
I will hear anything in good faith.
I have heard Ben Shapiro more than enough, to know what he is and does. (The retractions happen later). See Einstein's famous definition of insanity.
This correspondence is closed.
'This correspondence is closed.'
Its closed when I say its closed.
wonderfully expressed – got a chuckle here
The first person Rittenhouse shot and killed was a homeless man who had just left hospital who threw a plastic bag of his hospital belongings at Rittenhouse after Rittenhouse pointed his assault rifle at him.
Rittenhouse second killing was of a skate boarder who tried to strike Rittenhouse with his skate board to try to disarm him after Rittenhouse had killed his first victim.
Rittenhouse third victim drew a handgun and was wounded by Rittenhouse and survived the shooting.
In his defence Kyle Rittenhouse said he felt endangered by the three people he shot.
Kyle Rittenhouse would have no cause to feel endangered if he had not driven from his home in the company of other heavily armed men to confront his victims with his assault rifle.
Kyle Rittenhouse actions leading up his killings were premeditated.
Just as if he had driven from his home in the company of other hunters to shoot deer.
Only in a truly perverted legal system could a heavily armed killer like Rittenhouse have walked completely free without any legal sanction at all.
Kenosha Rittenhouse trial victims: These are the 3 men he shot – CNN
Fine we'll do this (again)
An assault rifle is a specific thing, you can't just label something an assault rifle because it looks like an assault rifle.
Kyle had a (legal) AR-15 type rifle. The AR-15 can only be produced as a semi-automatic.
To be designated an assault rifle the rifle, amongst other things, has to be able to be fired in both semi AND full automatic mode.
Kyle did not have an assault rifle.
Are we clear or do I need to explain it further?
Right lets move on shall we:
'The first person Rittenhouse shot and killed was a homeless man who had just left hospital who threw a plastic bag of his hospital belongings at Rittenhouse after Rittenhouse pointed his assault rifle at him.'
The first person Kyle shot was a convicted child molester and domestic abuser (amongst other charges) and had threatened to kill Kyle earlier in the night.
Thats not hearsay, thats from the prosecutions own witness.
Kyle attempted to run from Joseph however it was only when Joseph was close enough to make a grab for the rifle that Kyle shot him.
Kyle shot Joseph him because Kyle was in fear for his life because of the threats Joseph made towards him and that he was trying to grab Kyles rifle.
'Rittenhouse second killing was of a skate boarder who tried to strike Rittenhouse with his skate board to try to disarm him after Rittenhouse had killed his first victim'
Anthony Huber had multiple convictions of domestic abuse (amongst other charges) and didn't try to hit Kyle with the skateboard, he actually assaulted Kyle so Kyle defended himself.
'Rittenhouse third victim drew a handgun and was wounded by Rittenhouse and survived the shooting.'
The third person had a previous conviction for being drunk with a firearm and was illegally carrying his pistol, Kyle only shot when Grosskreutz aimed the pistol at Kyle.
'Kyle Rittenhouse would have no cause to feel endangered if he had not driven from his home in the company of other heavily armed men to confront his victims with his assault rifle.'
He wasn't in the company of other heavily armed men, he wasn't heavily armed and, as stated previously it wasn't an assault rifle.
However nothing about his actions were illegal, he was allowed to do what he doing.
His legal right.
'Kyle Rittenhouse actions leading up his killings were premeditated.'
Incorrect. Kyle shot three people who directly threatened him. How could he pre determine that, had he just randomly fired at anyone you might have a point.
He didn't, he shot three people directly threatening him.
He was running away, they followed him.
https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2021/03/12/kenosha-shooting/
'
'The first person Rittenhouse shot and killed was a homeless man who had just left hospital who threw a plastic bag of his hospital belongings at Rittenhouse after Rittenhouse pointed his assault rifle at him.'
The first person Kyle shot was a convicted child molester and domestic abuser (amongst other charges) and had threatened to kill Kyle earlier in the night.'
Wow…such accuracy!…so coincidentally he had to shoot everyone he came across..for whatever ..'reasons'!
Kinda missed a couple of paragraphs ie '
'Kyle attempted to run from Joseph however it was only when Joseph was close enough to make a grab for the rifle that Kyle shot him.'
Joseph threatened Kyle, Joseph chased Kyle and tried to grab Kyles rifle, at any point Joseph could have stopped but he chose not
'Kyle shot Joseph him because Kyle was in fear for his life because of the threats Joseph made towards him and that he was trying to grab Kyles rifle.'
Is that not clear enough for you?
No it's not…'the first person'=whoever for whatever lame excuse…i.e throwing a plastic bag'!..I'm in the mood for..murder.
Well if it helps they actually had a trial about this very thing and as it turns out that no matter what you think I'm right and you're wrong
Absolutement…just like O.J….'all done in the best..possible..taste.!
Might have to remind me about that case, pretty sure it was about a black man accused of killing a white man and white woman and not in self defence
Spin it how you like.
After gunning down an unarmed man Rittenhouse was running away.
The killer was chased by a witness to stop him getting away. Who then tried to disarm the killer.
You can spin the attempted disarming of an active shooter by a witness armed only with a skateboard as an act of aggression.
You can spin the killing of two people with a high powered military styled semi automatic weapon, as an act of self defence.
The facts are Kyle Rittenhouse in the company of other heavily armed men, killed two people, one of them completely unarmed, who presented no threat to him or his companions, and walked away free.
Kyle Rittenhouse was congratulated for his killings by the billionaire despot in waiting.
donald trump congratulates kyle rittenhouse – Bing News
The USA is on an arc to Third World despotism and collapse, where human life has no worth
Hi Jenny
You don't really understand the words you're using and thats ok, we don't know what we don't know.
But since you read what I wrote previously and have changed accordingly (the whole AR-15 v assault rifle) you seem like someone that will change their mind when given new information
'Spin it how you like'
See I'm not trying to 'spin it', I'm laying out the facts as presented by proof, evidence and witnesses, an example of spinning it would be:
'After gunning down an unarmed man Rittenhouse was running away'
So theres a couple of things you need to know here.
https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2020/09/08/kyle-rittenhouse-fire-extinguisher/
So what you'll see here, in a video clip (thanks smart phones) is several people including the paedophile (hes the short, bald guy in the burgundy t shirt) pushing a flaming dumpster towards the gas station (in fairness they might also pushing towards the police cars)
Next theres this
https://apnews.com/article/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-key-points-bc51f3b9dd0fe0c1289fe2161d7c3ab3
'Rittenhouse testified that Rosenbaum threatened his life twice.'
'He said he had been putting out fires and asking people if they needed medical help when he saw Rosenbaum carrying a steel chain and wearing a mask. Rosenbaum began screaming at him, he said.'
“He was just mad about something. He’s screaming, ‘If I catch any of you (expletives) alone I’m going to (expletive) kill you.’”
When he encountered Rosenbaum again later, Rosenbaum shouted, “I’m going to cut your (expletive) hearts out and kill you,” Rittenhouse said.'
By the way aside from being a domestic abuser and sodomiser of little boys he also wasn't afraid of using the n word, in his own words
https://twitter.com/pr_agmatik/status/1299089444298002432
I think I can see where you are going with this.
American citizens have the right execute pedophiles. (Even if they don't find out they are pedophiles until after they have killed them).
Sounds like a recipe for social cohesion. Not!
'I think I can see where you are going with this.'
– Well if you were thinking you would have come up with a different conclusion
'American citizens have the right execute pedophiles. (Even if they don't find out they are pedophiles until after they have killed them).'
– American citizens have the right to self-defence
'Sounds like a recipe for social cohesion. Not!'
– How about not threatening to kill someone as the respectable 'Mr Rosenbaum' did
– How about not chasing the person he threatened to kill
– How about backing off when the person you threaten to kill presents a firearm
– How about not attempting to grab the rifle of the person you threatened to kill especially after they present a firearm
– 'Mr Rosenbaum' died as he lived, attempting to assault an unwilling, underage boy, only this time the boy was able to defend himself
I think I can see where you are going with this
Despite the not guilty verdict the families of OJs' victims sued the fuck out of him and ruined him. Odds are the years Rittenhouse spends fighting off his lawyers and the families of the people he killed will ruin him, too.
https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/watch-now-bond-money-could-be-next-legal-battle-for-kyle-rittenhouse/article_67a4f727-2237-55e7-abca-6f258a37a5a8.html
MAGA gofundme will cover it.
And then he'll be forgotten.
It is no exaggeration to say that everyone but George Zimmerman is to blame for his descent into the bowels of notorious obscurity, according to him. Near the end of his 36-page suit, the whining and caterwauling reaches peek self-pity in the following points:
https://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/tony-norman/2019/12/06/George-Zimmerman-lawsuit-Trayvon-Martin-family-lawyer/stories/201912060054
I don't think he'll be needing any of that…
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-covington-kids-revenge-one-year-later/
'Sandmann beat CNN (the other suits are pending), which settled and paid rather than risk a trial. Assuming credibility and self-respect are worth about zero, we now know that the price tag for the agenda journalism CNN practices is reportedly $25 million.'
https://www.foxnews.com/media/nick-sandmann-kyle-rittenhouse-defamation
"The parallels between me and Kyle Rittenhouse are impossible not to draw," Sandmann wrote in a column for the Daily Mail in which he directly reached out to lend support. "The way the media has treated you is terrible, and you don't have to face it alone."
It's pretty clear from the evidence that the verdict was correct. The Prosecution failed to establish the case, as its own witnesses showed.
Of course that doesn't mean Kyle Rittenhouse is a hero or that it was a good decision to be there armed – it wasn't. But neither is he thereby automatically a white supremacist devil. He appears like a slightly lost young man looking for a cause, much like many of the protestors there.
It's a definite lesson in the politicalisation and ideological projecting of justice. George Floydd was another. The verdict was legally correct, but none of surrounding valorisation and narrative of George Floydd was right.
What's most interesting is the media narrative here again. It's yet another example of a Liberal media delivering narrative and ideologically driven news. Like the Steele Dossier. Of course Fox can be just as bad, but they are only one channel.
Here, it is even worse. The mainstream media is a dull, homogenous, highly ideological, moralistic, AND solidly Left-wing bias, especially on social issues. I have given up on Covid media coverage in NZ. It's a one-sided lecture and Government advertisement, not news.
Yes to this.
You only have to look at the amount of posts on this subject filled with incorrect facts to see how insidious, and morally bankrupt, msm really is