Open mike 20/03/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:40 am, March 20th, 2014 - 172 comments
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openmike Open mike is your post.

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172 comments on “Open mike 20/03/2014 ”

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  1. Saarbo 1
    20 March 2014 at 7:08 am

    My Nephew is 24, he drives a $650,000 cattle truck. He works 6 days a week and is required to clean the truck on day 7. He arrives home after 9pm, he leaves for work 6 to 7 am. Not sure how he deals with his log book. He has given up all of his recreational interests, selling his trail bike 6 months ago. The work hours and conditions are really getting him down.

    Anyway, he seems to be one of the thousands of young Kiwi workers who seem to treated like slaves these days.

    I want to tell him to vote for Labour…can someone tell me what Labour would do for him?

      • mac1 1.1.1
        20 March 2014 at 1:41 pm

        Interesting document, BM. Thanks.

        In it, it shows that a driver can be fined $300 minimum for omissions in his/her log book.

        Should the users of the credit cards in the Kohanga scandal, which Parata is in trouble over, be fined in a similar way for omitting to provide documentation for their koha and other payments?

    • Lefty 1.2
      20 March 2014 at 7:59 am

      If he is waiting for politicians (of any party) to fix things at his workplace he is in for a bloody long wait.

      He would be better off persuading his workmates to join the union. If the workers at any workplace are united they can make bastard bosses change their ways.

      FIRST Union is the union for drivers and where enough workers in a particular workplace join up they are usually able to get significant improvements in conditions.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1
        20 March 2014 at 8:14 am

        What he needs to do is donate $55k to the National Party, then invite his boss to dinner with the Justice Minister and her close personal friends.

        But I suppose joining a union would be a good idea too.

    • Te Reo Putake 1.3
      20 March 2014 at 8:37 am

      Saarbo, Labour propose moving to a system similar to that used in Oz. All workers would be covered by minimum industry standards, and unionised workplaces would be able to negotiate better conditions on top of that. The industry standard would provide both reasonable health and safety conditions and minimum wages and other rights, providing a level playing field in each industry. Unionised workplaces can then get better rates of pay etc. based on the profitability of individual enterprises.

      I understand the Greens are thinking along similar lines and that, at least in manufacturing, NZF have given tacit support to the concept.

      • TightyRighty 1.3.1
        20 March 2014 at 8:50 am

        it’s almost like SPC, holden, ford, toyota and qantas never happened in your world

        • Tracey 1.3.1.1
          20 March 2014 at 9:10 am

          its almost like compassion for fellow kiwis never happens on your planet.

          • TightyRighty 1.3.1.1.1
            20 March 2014 at 9:25 am

            It has nothing to with compassion. it has everything to do with the destruction unions have wrought in australia. they’d rather lose their jobs than some of the perks. I feel bad for those non unionised people in associated industries who now face the prospect of losing their jobs alongside the union workers who caused the problems.

            • Te Reo Putake 1.3.1.1.1.1
              20 March 2014 at 9:43 am

              Stop being a goose for a moment TR. The wind down of automotive manufacturing in Oz has nothing to do with wages and conditions and everything to do with an industry whose time had come. The companies themselves (Ford, Toyota and GM) have been open that it was not wages and conditions that were the problem.

              By your logic, every industry in Oz would be closing, including mining. Oz is heavily unionised, yet carries on profitably. The problem isn’t workers, it’s your bigotry.

              • TightyRighty …
                20 March 2014 at 9:51 am

                yup. keep telling yourself that.

                Mining in australia will succumb quickly if there is a further downturn in demand. bigoted because I believe unions are about the short term goals unions, not about the workers and long term sustainability of industry? workers aren’t the problem either. labour is an equally important part of the economic equation as capital.

                • Te Reo Putake …
                  20 March 2014 at 10:47 am

                  Tell you what, son. Howabout you do some research. Come back with any evidence that you can find that the CEO’s of SPC, Holden, Ford, Toyota and Qantas are blaming their workforce and the unions that represent them for their current woes. Go on, show us the facts that prove you’re not an ignorant, one eyed bigot.

                  • Seti …
                    20 March 2014 at 12:15 pm

                    Toyota disputed the suggestion of Joe Hockey that they had ever blamed their workers’ pay and entitlements, however it was no secret the company was negotiating with the unions over conditions in an effort to save approx $3800 per car.

                    There was a variety of factors in the decision to close, such as a strong currency, domestics sales and reducing tariffs, but production costs were no doubt a critical factor –

                    Employees of Toyota Australia, which is considering shutting its factories, are paid allowances so generous they have been phased out in most other areas of manufacturing, experts say.

                    Toyota employees who work Sundays are paid 2½ times their normal rate, paid to donate blood, don’t have to provide medical certificates for sick days and are paid “wash up time” after shifts. Other benefits include extra pay for employees who have first-aid training, for working in confined spaces and “dirt money” for performing unusually dirty work.

                    And then –

                    TOYOTA workers have launched new legal action to safeguard themselves from any further attempts by the motor giant to remove some of their entitlements…

                    Toyota is already appealing judge Mordy Bromberg‘s ruling which found Toyota’s bid to ‘’reduce employee entitlements’’ and achieve cost savings had breached the no extra claims provision of the workplace agreement covering employees.

                    Two weeks later Toyota pulled the pin, citing amongst other things high manufacturing costs.

                    As for SPC –

                    Bill Shorten as a union boss a decade ago boasted he’d got workers at SPC Ardmona a very generous deal:
                    Bill Shorten led SPC Ardmona workers on a six-day strike during the harvest season, winning them an extra eight days “leisure time’’…
                    [A] 2004 press release has emerged in which the now-Opposition Leader claimed to have changed SPC working conditions “forever’’.

                    He said workers had “won an agreement from SPC Ardmona for a 13.5 per cent improvement in salary conditions including an extra eight days of leisure time by the third year of the agreement’’

                    Subsequently, last year –

                    SPC ARDMONA has sacked 73 workers at its Goulburn Valley processing plant as the struggling company fights for survival…
                    A spokesman for SPC Ardmona said employees were aware of the “critical and urgent need to transform our business’’ and … had been previously advised their positions were under review as the company assessed its work practices to identify productivity improvements.

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      20 March 2014 at 12:48 pm

                      “… but production costs were no doubt a critical factor -”

                      It’s evidence for this that I’ve asked TR for. You haven’t supplied anything that proves that wages and conditions were anything but one of a range of factors, and you yourself note that ‘high production costs’ were a factor. Part of that factor was wages and conditions, but it was only one aspect amongst many others. Paying slave wages would not have saved the auto industry.

                      The point I’m making is that the cost of labour was not the determing factor in any of those closures. Further, in the auto industry, the main unions, particularly the AMWU, have agreed ‘dead rat’ deals to help stave off the inevitable. But those relatively small concessions pale into insignificance compared to the big problems such as the high dollar and a diminishing market share.

                      But thanks for the effort you have put in. I much prefer dealing with facts than the mindless memes TR pushes.

                    • TightyRighty …
                      20 March 2014 at 4:00 pm

                      Thanks Seti. you laid out exactly what the problem with the high level of unionization in australian industries is.

                      you might have asked me TRP, but there is no point in me repeating seti’s far better argument.

                      About SPC ardmona. Did the employees keep that 13.5% pay rise? were the options keeping 73 workers in a job or giving back some of the extra entitlements the union had won for the workers? seems to me like solidarity is only good when the union has an axe to grind.

                      edit: my “mindless meme’s” have prompted the discussion which you now find yourself battling for success in. i hardly think they are mindless now they have been proved to be based on fact and observation. not by me, as i’ve been busy, but i don’t care and full credit to seti

                • You_Fool …
                  20 March 2014 at 12:12 pm

                  Of course the desire for the board/shareholders/owners of companies to wring out every last cent of profit for themselves has nothing to do with short term blindness either. If you kill all your workforce you won’t be making money either.

                  • Seti …
                    20 March 2014 at 1:19 pm

                    In reply to TRP (no reply button, is there a limit to replies in sub-threads?)

                    The difference is the unions would not budge in an attempt to keep their industry afloat. Any savings had to be found elsewhere even though workers were “paid allowances so generous they have been phased out in most other areas of manufacturing, experts say”

                    Compare that to – US Autoworkers

                    US carmakers cut the wages of their workers in half to engineer the survival of their industry six years ago, whereas Australian pay rates grew by up to 21 per cent over the same period.

                    The result is that the US auto industry is flourishing and the Australian one is no more, along with probably 60,000 jobs.

                    (AWMU secretary) Mr Smith said he would not consider further sacrifices for his members in the car industry after they had agreed to a wage freeze for three years. “Why should I?” he said. “My members have already done their bit. They’re past the post. It’s up to the government to show some leadership now, not my members.”

                    Even though the government was already throwing in hundreds of millions in subsidies.

                    Spot the difference in union leadership in the USA –

                    The decision of the UAW in Detroit, made as the global financial crisis took hold in 2007, was borne out of necessity after billions of dollars in government bailout money, with GM and Chrysler facing bankruptcy.Then UAW president Bob King recognised that new labour market flexibility in the car industry was the only hope for survival.

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      20 March 2014 at 1:27 pm

                      Hold on Seti, you actually supply information that confirms my point. The AMWU had already made sacrifices, such as the wage freeze, but it ultimately made no difference whatsoever. If they were all on ten bucks an hour, the industry would still be stuffed because the bigger factors, such as the high dollar, were the killers.

                  • Seti …
                    20 March 2014 at 2:05 pm

                    Te Reo Putake
                    20 March 2014 at 1:27 pm

                    Hold on Seti, you actually supply information that confirms my point. The AMWU had already made sacrifices, such as the wage freeze, but it ultimately made no difference whatsoever. If they were all on ten bucks an hour, the industry would still be stuffed because the bigger factors, such as the high dollar, were the killers

                    In that case why did the company spend months in court with the associated costs in an attempt to wind back those overly generous allowances if it made no difference? And why did the equivalent US union have an epiphany if wages and entitlements make no difference whatsoever?

                    The militancy and inflexibility in Australian unionism is coming home to roost, and there is a salient lesson that can be learned here where industries have the luxury of mobility and can relocate to more cost efficient, (foreign) locations to stay viable. It’s not Toyota paying the price here.

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      20 March 2014 at 2:17 pm

                      Both unions made sacrifices, as your evidence shows. Both car industries are still under pressure, one fatally. You need to look at what the costs of manufacturing are. Hint; wages are part of that picture, but not the dominant factor. If it was, CEO’s would cut their own pay, wouldn’t they?

                    • Seti …
                      20 March 2014 at 2:41 pm

                      You need to look at what the costs of manufacturing are. Hint; wages are part of that picture, but not the dominant factor.

                      Well actually labour costs are the dominant factor in being competitive –

                      Holden said that $2000 of its $3750 cost penalty for building cars in Australia rather than Asian plants was labour, and about $1500 was the penalty for local supplies, which also includes labour.

                      “The reality is if they don’t get any joy out of the labour component I don’t think they see a way they are going to be able to save $3800 in costs from other areas,” says Jim Sarantinos, an industry expert and partner at corporate advisory firm Ferrier Hodgson.

                      “I think the labour component is the essential one as far as Toyota is concerned.”

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      20 March 2014 at 3:32 pm

                      Exactly my point, Seti. Oz labour costs are still relatively low, but they are an area that employers have some control over. Increased mechanisation in the car industry has made labout costs a smaller part of the overall cost of production, but the boss has no influence over the dollar or power prices. But the small section of costs they can influence, such as small local suppliers, contractors and waged labour will always be an obvious target.

                      The cost penalty referred to is the difference in cost between the cars being made in low wage countries in asia and south America and those made in the relatively high waged plants in Oz. Yet that difference is only $2-3 k per Commodore.

                      The quest to lower wages is not an overwhelmingly logical economic argument, its a desperate attempt to be seen to do something in one of the few cost areas where negotiation is possible. The real killer of industry remains an unregulated dollar, there and here.

                    • TightyRighty …
                      20 March 2014 at 3:56 pm

                      only $2-$3k per car? at manufacturing. not wholesale, not at retail. It then has to have a margin added to it, it’s then sold to the dealer network, who take their margin too. that 2-3k would mean a minimum of $4k extra on the showroom floor. and that’s being very tight with margins. australian consumers, who lets face it are the ultimate judge of how expensive something is, may not be prepared to pay that cost. scratch that, have proven that they are not prepared to pay what amounts to an opportunity cost for them. commodores are a working mans car, $4k is quite lot of money for a good honest toiler. that’s half a new kitchen.

                      you live in a dream world TRP. costs arent’t the dominant factor? i know the left, you in particular, don’t get percentages and how they work so i’ll make it simple. $2000/$3750 = 53% of the penalty cost. and that is just one of the costs. but say the only other cost is the higher dollar. the dollar is still the second largest line cost.

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      20 March 2014 at 4:24 pm

                      More waffle, TR? Is that all you’ve got? At least seti had the smarts to do some research. My question above still stands. Show us the evidence, pal. Or just crawl away as usual.

                    • TightyRighty …
                      20 March 2014 at 4:52 pm

                      seti’s bunged it all in. sources, evidence everything why would i repeat it? makes no sense. the only person waffling now is you.

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      20 March 2014 at 8:21 pm

                      So it’s the crawl away option, TR? Disappointed.

            • Murray Olsen 1.3.1.1.1.2
              20 March 2014 at 8:28 pm

              Funny how the bosses of all those firms, except for the moron in charge of QANTAS, went out of their way to say that the unions had nothing to do with their problems.

              • Seti …
                20 March 2014 at 8:57 pm

                Bagging the workforce when they still need to sell into the market would never fly from a PR standpoint.

        • greywarbler 1.3.1.2
          20 March 2014 at 10:58 am

          Hello TR
          You still around. I thought that the rictus of tightness would have frozen and sealed your mouth by now and you would be heckling in the sky, free of mortal constraints. Good place for you.

      • Saarbo 1.3.2
        20 March 2014 at 1:13 pm

        Thanks TRP. Will also contact FIRST.

        Im just watching a young guy losing his spirit as he is been worked into the ground. He doesn’t want to complain but he has no recreational interests, he cant socialise, he doesn’t have time to do anything except work, its disgusting. He isn’t alone though, this is just the way young people are treated now days, also seeing a lot of farm workers treated in the same way. I saw a tweet from Helen Kelly last night stating that 50% of ChCh workers are from Labour Hire…miserable existence for many kiwi’s these days.

    • Jimmie 1.4
      20 March 2014 at 9:11 am

      I’ll tell you what Labour will do for him:

      Because of his hours and pay rate he will get whacked with a higher tax rate

      If he tries to buy a house he will have a Capital Gains Tax to deal with.

      However if he resigned as a truckie and got a job working for a government department – he would be set for life -$80K a year and 38 hours a week.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 1.4.1
        20 March 2014 at 9:16 am

        CGT applies to the family home?

        Really?

        Nah, Jimmie, the fact that you can’t make your point without lying renders everything you say untrustworthy and pointless. A bit like you, really.

        • unpcnzcougar 1.4.1.1
          20 March 2014 at 11:01 am

          CGT will apply to investment properties – but the real problem is the family home. If you inherit a home (say from your parents who pass) and then you and siblings sell that home it is subject to CGT. To me saying that it does not apply to the family home is a bit disingenuous as it is essentially an inheritance tax.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 1.4.1.1.1
            20 March 2014 at 11:32 am

            Nah, it only looks disingenuous to mendacious partisan hacks.

            • unpcnzcougar 1.4.1.1.1.1
              20 March 2014 at 12:05 pm

              While I commend your use of the word mendacious I suggest you look at the following:
              https://www.labour.org.nz/sites/default/files/CGTWebdoct%20July%202011.pdf

              It clearly states on inheritance when an asset is realised (i.e. sold) then CGT is applicable. If you are happy for your kids to pay this then fine. But really when you have paid a mortgage with after tax money I think it is perhaps not so good.

              BTW I have no problem with a CGT – this particular clause though IMHO will effect all inheritors of family homes and without doing too much analysis most will be middle to low socio demographics – by sheer numbers.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                20 March 2014 at 12:11 pm

                So, not in the least bit disingenuous, on the contrary, clearly spelled out in the policy release.

                It was an appropriate use of the word “mendacious”, then. I was a bit worried you were just some credulous dupe who was parrotting Tory attack lines without checking the facts, so it’s nice of you to confirm you were lying.

                • unpcnzcougar …
                  20 March 2014 at 12:21 pm

                  I really don’t care if you think I’m lying when the document is clear. What is not good is the spouting around CGT and the family home and lying by omission that it will not be subject to CGT – kind of like the baby policy.

                  You have a fabulous day.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    20 March 2014 at 12:40 pm

                    Yeah, the house you live in will not be subject to CGT, and that’s what “family home” means. Now run along and find some other Tory lie to parrot.

                    • unpcnzcougar …
                      20 March 2014 at 12:52 pm

                      The house I live in WILL be subject to CGT when I pass on and leave it to my children and they quite sensibly sell it to pay down their own mortgages. Now you run along and have a sail down the river denial.

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      20 March 2014 at 12:59 pm

                      You’re wrong, unpc. Labour’s CGT policy exempts the family home. However, as was said at the time, the family bach would attract a whopping 15% CGT when sold.

                      Wow, 15%, how will we all survive? Oh, wait, most of us don’t have two properties anyway and under National we’re heading to where most of us don’t even have one.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      20 March 2014 at 1:08 pm

                      Sell the family home? Obviously it has great sentimental value.

                      It’s the cash, isn’t it? The unearned profits driven by an overinflated housing market. Pure greed.

                      You might have to give up 15% of the profit on the sale. Sob.

                    • McFlock …
                      20 March 2014 at 2:21 pm

                      um – if they sell “the family home”, it’s quite clear that the asset is more valuable to them as cash than as a “home”.

              • freedom …
                20 March 2014 at 12:30 pm

                “without doing too much analysis most will be middle to low socio demographics ”

                umm maybe because the system has progressively reduced the number of wealthy NZrs?

                or is it more likely that the higher income folk have everything so wrapped up in Trusts that they will breeze through with low tax obligations no matter what the laws say?

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  20 March 2014 at 1:14 pm

                  +1

                • unpcnzcougar …
                  21 March 2014 at 7:12 am

                  Trusts are not exempt from the CGT. The family home which is exempt becomes NO longer exempt once the owner dies. It is subject to CGT upon sale. I suspect a great number of inherited houses are sold once the owner passes on as this will effect a great deal many New Zealanders.
                  One Anonymous – I provided you the link – it is clear on page 11 what happens – so wtf is wrong with you. So shoot me instead of the policy which is in pretty clear language.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    21 March 2014 at 7:47 am

                    The family home stops being exempt when it stops being a family’s home. It sounds to me as though you are too stupid to figure out how to avoid this.

              • Tracey …
                20 March 2014 at 1:18 pm

                but the person who paid the mortgage is dead. the home owner is dead. who is hurt by cgt being payable on the property? the dead owner?

                • greywarbler …
                  20 March 2014 at 2:02 pm

                  Tracey
                  But it’s the principle of the thing. Nobody wants to agree with the saying that there are only two certainties in life – death and taxes. And when someone actually has died then it’s sooo unfair to make them pay taxes. After they’ve gone. People can pay out $10,000 on funeral costs but a cheaper casket and so on so they can pay some tax would be sacrilege.

                • Naki Man …
                  20 March 2014 at 2:05 pm

                  “but the person who paid the mortgage is dead. the home owner is dead. who is hurt by cgt being payable on the property? the dead owner”

                  The children lose out on their inheritance. Some parents want to leave something for their kids. We don’t all make bad choices and live in a state house.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    20 March 2014 at 2:28 pm

                    They’ll be getting the capital value of a house, minus 15% of the profit on the sale. Or they could always live there in a mortgage free home.

                    I note your determination to demonstrate idiocy, but I don’t think that’s a bad choice you made, I think it’s a consequence of your diminished intellect.

                • freedom …
                  20 March 2014 at 2:13 pm

                  no Tracey, you’ve got it all wrong
                  in unpcnzcougar’s world, it’s more like this . .

                  um every kid has their own home see and like .. have awesome lives right and when like the folks die ok like the kids well they naturally sell the house see because like they have one already so the poor kiddies are hit with paying umm a bit of tax on a property they don’t need and so it’s like all unfair and shit.

      • greywarbler 1.4.2
        20 March 2014 at 11:00 am

        My gran used to have a dog called Jimmie. A little foxie. Inclined to jump up and bark a lot. Sounds as if you might be related.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.4.3
        20 March 2014 at 1:11 pm

        Because of his hours and pay rate he will get whacked with a higher tax rate

        And still be better off.

        If he tries to buy a house he will have a Capital Gains Tax to deal with.

        No he won’t, that would be the person selling the house.

        However if he resigned as a truckie and got a job working for a government department – he would be set for life -$80K a year and 38 hours a week.

        Sounds good and he won’t be worked to death as he is now.

    • Once was Pete 1.5
      20 March 2014 at 11:42 am

      There are quite strict regulations about the hours drivers can work. He would seem to be a long way outside these hours unless he has other general duties.

      • Tracey 1.5.1
        20 March 2014 at 1:26 pm

        seems unusual for an employer to be ignoring a law that puts an employee in an awful position.

    • RedBaronCV 1.6
      20 March 2014 at 11:51 am

      Tell him to vote as far to the left as poossible as the Nacts will only make his life worse.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.7
      20 March 2014 at 1:07 pm

      Tell him to vote Green.

    • Naki Man 1.8
      20 March 2014 at 2:17 pm

      Saarbo
      Tell your Nephew to get a job driving for Fonterra. Safety is number one priority.
      Shift work, 6 on 3 off for about 75k pa

    • Bob Square Pants 1.9
      20 March 2014 at 2:39 pm

      So hang on… you are complaining about a hard working kiwi? This is someone who is going to get a head. Do you think everything should be handed on a platter? Jesus.

      Good on this guy, he’s young enough to do it. I did this at age 21. I am 31 now and only work half days most days. I still work weekends every now and then. Hard work pays off.

      He will end up being a National party voter.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 1.9.1
        20 March 2014 at 3:01 pm

        Not if he wants a more profitable economy he won’t. National consistently do a worse job of managing the economy. It’s because their MPs are too busy feathering their own nests, not to mention reality’s liberal bias.

        • McFlock 1.9.1.1
          20 March 2014 at 3:10 pm

          There was an interesting talk in Dunedin today by Max Rashbrooke. It was entitled “Income inequality: what are the solutions?”.

          Some interesting points and ideas that have been discussed here, but he also cam up with the thing that more equal societies perform better over the long term than less equal societies. Even in pure GDP/neolib terms. The supposed mechanism is that unequal societies give more political power to the wealthy, who use that power to prevent efficient economics like cracking down on monopolies and tax dodgers (sound familiar?).

          • One Anonymous Bloke 1.9.1.1.1
            20 March 2014 at 3:32 pm

            The IMF got the memo, but it hasn’t reached the National Party yet.

          • Ergo Robertina 1.9.1.1.2
            20 March 2014 at 7:19 pm

            ‘Some interesting points and ideas that have been discussed here, but he also cam up with the thing that more equal societies perform better over the long term than less equal societies.’

            This is the premise of the 2009 book The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better. The most influential social science book for years basically fell into Labour’s lap when it was new in opposition. I would have had its basic premise on sound bite high rotation over the last 5 years.
            Anyway here’s an update from the Spirit Level authors in the Guardian this month.

      • greywarbler 1.9.2
        20 March 2014 at 4:47 pm

        BS Pants
        Hahahahahahahah And what line did you make your pile in. The guy I knew who retired early from work had properties that he rented out. He didn’t seem happy though – didn’t
        seem to have much of a life. Dead in middle age. Probably frightened to death by the CGT.

  2. amirite 2
    20 March 2014 at 7:23 am

    The arrogance of this government, now openly flaunting ties with their cronies – PM’s own dinner with Oravida’s chairman
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11222859

    • bad12 2.1
      20 March 2014 at 7:57 am

      Slippery the Prime Minister gave a grand display of arrogance on the TV3 news last night, it would seem that among the media Patrick Gower now has a taste for exposing the PM for exactly what He is,(an arrogant prick with an over-blown sense of entitlement),

      The Prime Ministers round of golf with Oravida owner Stone Shi heavily publicized by TV3 and other media with the proceeds going to Charity,

      And the charity??? turns out the charity was none other than the National Party, so here’s Slippery Bullshitting the media that he is involved in a golf match with a leading businessman, (Stone Chi), gaining political favor from the gushing of all the acolytes out there in suburban land who all swoon as one at the thought that our PM is ‘giving to charity’ and its all bullshit,

      The only money that changed hands was from Stone Chi directly into the National Parties coffers,

      Paddy Gower, who i am growing a little respect for got right in Sippery’s face about this, and so He should, it aint only the public that is being taken for a ride here being treated as mere fools by the PM’s little side-show, the media here are being used as tools by an admittedly cunning Slippery Prime Minister,

      Asked by Gower how many ‘other’ charity events much publicized by the media had been used by the Prime Minister as fundraisers for the National Party Slippery, ever the arrogant little prick, answered that He didn’t know and didn’t care…

      • mac1 2.1.1
        20 March 2014 at 8:27 am

        char·i·ty (chăr′ĭ-tē)
        n. pl. char·i·ties
        1. Provision of help or relief to the poor; almsgiving.
        2. Something given to help the needy; alms.
        3. An institution, organization, or fund established to help the needy.
        4. Benevolence or generosity toward others or toward humanity.
        5. Indulgence or forbearance in judging others

        Which of those could John key imagine fits his definition of charity? The point of charity is that there is no benefit to the giver, and money paid to National for a game of golf with the PM with its attendant opportunity to lobby and/or big note is not charity.

        It’s paying for some-one’s time. It implies a buyer/seller, services purchased, quid pro quo relationship.

        Is this what Key means when he says he gives away his PM salary to charity?

        • bad12 2.1.1.1
          20 March 2014 at 8:33 am

          Rent-a-Prime Minister, what’s that make Slippery, a mere political prostitute perhaps???…

      • Tracey 2.1.2
        20 March 2014 at 9:15 am

        and yet nationalmuch hyped 30bn per year deal with china. but that is the total between the two countries. what percentage will come to us, and lets hope we dont get more trains from them.

      • karol 2.1.3
        20 March 2014 at 9:16 am

        Thanks for the info about last night’s 3 News. bad. I was out last night & didn’t see it.

        If Gower keeps this up, I will do a post on it – seeing as I have done more than one post in the past slamming Gower.

        • bad12 2.1.3.1
          20 March 2014 at 12:35 pm

          Karol, maybe all the criticism has actually provoked Paddy Gower to change His ways, i was so surprised by last nights interview that i went looking for it again on the TV3 website this morning,

          Couldn’t find it, which doesn’t mean its not there, just my skills at site navigation are pretty non-existent,

          Credit where credit has been well earned and it was one of those moments that no-one should miss, you could tell that Slippery, doing His ‘i am the star of the show here in China’ bit for the gathered media was pissed at Gower for bringing up the golf game with Stone Shi and the fact that ‘the charity’ was actually the National Party,

          The ”i don’t know and don’t care” answer to Gower asking how many more of such ‘charity events’ there were i would suggest is a preclude to Slippery losing His rag completely with Gower who up until a few weeks ago seemed more than willing to take the PM at His word being unquestioning on every occasion,

          That one, the PM losing His rag on the 6 o’clock news will be a joy to watch and the ‘new’ version of Paddy Gower using ‘facts’ should have all the Party leaders sharpening up…

          • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.3.1.1
            20 March 2014 at 12:55 pm

            Here’s Paddy’s print version.

            Does the fact that he’s found something true to report for once mean he’s going to stop making shit up on other occasions?

            The jury is still out.

            • bad12 2.1.3.1.1.1
              20 March 2014 at 4:11 pm

              OAB, for once???, make that twice if you include Gower’s job done on Slippery the PM on last week-ends the Nation,

              A week is a long time in politics and all that, better to let the past go and if Paddy carries on interviewing in the vein He has been then He has earned the applause…

          • veutoviper 2.1.3.1.2
            20 March 2014 at 1:17 pm

            Here you are Karol and Bad12 – link to Gower’s video on TV3 last night. I didn’t see it then, but it is well worth watching and confirms that Gower is not going to let the Oravida matter die. Key’s arrogance and “Don’t know, can’t remember” approach is over the top.

            http://www.3news.co.nz/Assurance-but-no-apology-from-Key-in-China/tabid/1607/articleID/336569/Default.aspx

            PS – As a complete aside, I had also been wondering and much as I cannot stand Paul Henry, this video answered my question.
            http://www.3news.co.nz/Who-even-is-Emma-Kelly/tabid/1837/articleID/336438/Default.aspx

            • bad12 2.1.3.1.2.1
              20 March 2014 at 4:46 pm

              Nice links VV, i think Paddy Gower is as pissed at being taken for a fool by Slippery the Prime Minister as the PM is pissed at Gower for daring to question Him,

              Who wouldn’t have immediately connected the PM’s version of being ‘won’ in a charity event with a ‘good’ cause like Auckland’s Starship children’s hospital,

              Nothing our PM utters can be given face value by the media and Gower seems to be coming to grips with this fact well ahead of the rest of the ‘press pack’ who are still stuck in the ‘simpering sycophancy’ accorded the PM in His first term of ‘smile’n’wave’ snake-oil politics,

              If this exposure of the PM as a fraud deepens into a battle between Gower and the PM, which if the looks Slippery has been directing Paddy’s way during recent interviews makes this a given, then we can expect in the coming months some real fireworks,

              It’s not a fight the PM can ‘win’ as they are both locked to a certain extent in the dance of the mutually co-dependent but in the final analysis further exposure of the PM’s inherent ability to favor dishonesty while in search of publicity will hurt Him politically and having Gower expose Him via the use of a nationwide TV channel doubles the damage,

              i havn’t been watching the Parliament’s TV but it will be disappointing if the Opposition do not seize upon the actions of the PM to grill the government at every turn about what is and is not a charity,

              It isn’t the incompetence of Parata nor the perceived conflicts of interest of Collins that will bring this Government down, it is convincing enough of the voting public that their Prime Minister is a sleazy little piece of flotsam who would happily ‘use’ and ‘lie’ about ‘Charities’, to which we all at some time or other donate either our time or monies, that will rid the country of an ugly little scab and an uglier National Government…

        • veutoviper 2.1.3.2
          20 March 2014 at 12:41 pm

          Karol, it is also worth checking Patrick’s blog today on TV3’s website, and his Twitter stream. He has got the bit between the teeth on this. I commented on this on MS’s post stream here with links to the blog and Twitter account here
          http://thestandard.org.nz/parata-replaces-collins-and-adams-as-nationals-weakest-link/#comment-788364

    • vto 2.2
      20 March 2014 at 8:21 am

      It is just outright wrong that political parties in government get money from individuals and businesses who do deals with and get favours from the government.

      It is outright corruption.

      The stench is rancid.

      Fuck we New Zealanders live with our heads in the bloody sand. Fools we are, fools. I think we con ourselves because we have some green hills, snowy mountains and tweeting birds – we think all is good ……. while the realities of the human beast and its history are pushed behind the blinkers…

      • BryC 2.2.1
        20 March 2014 at 9:29 am

        Oh my, political parties receiving money from individuals…trusts……corruption?
        glad Labour dont do that.. oh thats right.
        Your heads in the sand for sure.
        Chill out our economy is doing good.

        • vto 2.2.1.1
          20 March 2014 at 10:37 am

          Sorry? Perhaps you could point to where I referred to a difference between the parties?

        • freedom 2.2.1.2
          20 March 2014 at 1:13 pm

          “Chill out our economy is doing good.”
          No, it is not. The Dairy Industry is “doing good.”
          Rebuild firms and Insurance firms are “doing good.”

          The economy is a large machine with scale and momentum that is not steered solely by goodwill.
          Or spin. As a small country at the bottom of the world, the NZ economy is always facing an uphill battle. The thing with the machine today is it is going backwards. The debt is bigger than it has ever been and we are heading into a job drought that resembles the last few drips from a desert spring tap before the dust bowl hits. Technology is limping along and has real promise for enduring the incline ahead but if we do not do something progressive soon the people doing well will move offshore where the road is a little easier.

          Manufacturing is in a well observed decline. This is unnecessary, as it could benefit from the aforementioned technology growth and a little more home focused purchasing but is stymied at every turn by short sighted purchasing of inferior foreign goods because they are [reportedly] cheaper. Redundancies across the board are a steady news item, though oddly, most don’t make the headlines anymore. Hospitality is having one of its toughest years in, well, years. Horticulture is having some serious ongoing struggles with pests and viruses, and most of them are exporters. Exporters, well as a whole, they absolutely love the dollar being so ridiculously high. Don’t they? Of course the high dollar helps Tourism, but sadly dairy and mining will notably restrict the long term potential of that particular golden goose. But golden goose stories are just nursery rhymes.
          You want to talk about rock stars.

          So back to the rock stars.
          The rebuild will soon be evening out and within five years it will also be in decline.
          Dairy has maybe ten years before the emerging suppliers replace our suppliers. This is inevitable as not only are they closer to the growing markets, in many cases they are the growing markets. They will soon be producing volumes outstripping our own supply. So we grow more cows right, and more cows and more cows. This scenario is even more likely when you consider the amount of irrigation the Dairy Industry wants to steal from NZ. Where will that get us? By that time, and with current borrowings as a guideline, our National debt will top one hundred billion dollars.

          So all in all BryC,
          if you actually look beyond the press releases of the vested interests,
          the economy is not “doing good” at all.

          • Rob 2.2.1.2.1
            20 March 2014 at 2:20 pm

            Really Freedom

            Manufacturing is in a well observed decline.

            So here is the latest press release for Stats NZ on their view.

            GDP up 0.9 percent – Media release

            20 March 2014

            Strong growth in manufacturing saw gross domestic product (GDP) rise 0.9 percent in the December 2013 quarter, Statistics New Zealand said today.

            Manufacturing activity grew 2.1 percent, driven by increases in food, beverage, and tobacco, and machinery and equipment manufacturing. Manufacturing activity is now at its highest level since March 2006.

            Dairy farming and dairy product manufacturing both fell this quarter, after strong increases last quarter, when production rebounded from the drought earlier in 2013.

            “While dairy activity fell this quarter, exports were up strongly, as production from last quarter was sold overseas,” national accounts manager Michele Lloyd said.

            Wholesale trade, including machinery and equipment wholesaling, increased 3.2 percent this quarter. Strong machinery and equipment sales also led to a 7.5 percent increase in investment in these goods. Investment in plant, machinery, and equipment is now at its highest level since the series began.

            The expenditure measure of GDP was up 0.6 percent in the December 2013 quarter, driven by exports (up 3.1 percent) and household spending on goods and services (up 1.3 percent).

            The volume of spending by New Zealand households in the December 2013 year grew 3.4 percent, driven by a 7.4 percent increase in spending on durable goods. This is the largest annual increase in spending on durable goods since June 2005.

            Freedom I think you have just got to point of endless repitition, you have no current idea of how anything is progressing. Hint – sitting in a darkened room all day and typing on blogs does not make you understand industries.

            • freedom 2.2.1.2.1.1
              20 March 2014 at 3:17 pm

              I love your assumptions about how others live. For one thing, I write from my studio and a less dark room you will struggle to find. In fact the glorious amount of natural light in my studio is usually one of the first things visitors comment on, especially other artists who usually express great globs of envy at the amount of real light I get to work with.

              My studio is situated in an Industrial area which houses some manufacturing firms with nationwide operations and ongoing discussions with them and their truckers who travel the country is far more reliable than a stats NZ happy ending massage.

              I think it is fair to say almost all the manufacturing increases noted above are directly related to the rebuild which is a finite term and to dairy which is kind of supporting what I expressed earlier.

              I know that the market never looks past the next quarter and you seem happy to follow that paradigm but I am looking at the next generation, which is what a society should always be doing and as a country we are not in any way shape or form looking past the end of our next credit card default notices.

              Regarding the repetition, I call ’em as I see ’em. Ask yourself a simple honest question Rob. Why do they no longer report credit card spending as a separate item from other electronic card spending? There is no point quoting figures about how many goods people are buying when there is no reliable evidence on where the money to purchase those goods comes from. But thanks for attempting to get me to bite. Have a nice day.

              • Rob …
                20 March 2014 at 3:45 pm

                Well I suppose Freedom your “insights” are true to form for The Standard regulars. We have a massuese giving us regular lessons in economics , now we have some form of artist given us the true word in manufacturing purly because their studio is based in an industrial area. This will soon be followed by the primary school teacher who will tell us about fusion.

                I think you guys have got to get over the idea that you have some form of intellectual and academic superiority.

                • freedom …
                  20 March 2014 at 4:20 pm

                  “now we have some form of artist given us the true word in manufacturing purly because their studio is based in an industrial area.”

                  I’ll ignore the grammar and the spelling, typos I guess. But as for the true word, no, I am only giving an opinion based on real world dialogue with people involved in the sector, not copy-pasting info from government department press releases.

                  I still hope you and your prejudices have a nice day 🙂

                  • Rob …
                    20 March 2014 at 4:36 pm

                    Thats Ok Freedom, I’ll continue managing my manufacturing operation, that also happens to be in an industrial area, that also utilises freight and trucks and everything. Obviously my direct knowledge of NZ based manufacturing , coupled with stats NZ data still does not surpass your in depth insight. You call me prejudiced, thats fine .

                    • freedom …
                      20 March 2014 at 4:47 pm

                      Why didn’t you say you work in the sector then? Why don’t you let us all know how your particular sector is doing? How are we to learn if all we get access to is a copy paste from a stats nz press release with no qualifier that you actually have expertise in the field? So what area of manufacturing are you in? What growth has the company experienced this past year?

                      btw- The prejudice I refer to stems from your own statements that people who work in one particular field apparently have no right to pass an opinion on any other sector. The one I found particularly funny was this one “This will soon be followed by the primary school teacher who will tell us about fusion.” I know a physicist who actually teaches primary school. Not here in NZ but still, Rob, pretty elitist attitude being exposed there.

                    • Rob …
                      20 March 2014 at 4:59 pm

                      Peace …. I have been flamed here before talking about personal business performance and been bullied to show links or citations.

                      I certainly do not feel that people from other areas and/or industries should not comment on aspects outside there sphere. I get defensive with manufacturing ( as in this business we have fought to retain it in NZ) and have got sick of people kicking it around to make political points.

                      Our business is a medium sized (+100 staff) manufacturer / marketer that sells consumer durables through mainly retail and dealers. We are growing at 17.5% on LY. We are employing and will increase head count by 7 – 9 new staff over the next 6 months.

                      I am not elitist , in fact I really hate that. But I am also ‘drier economically” (probably the most polite way to summarise) than many here.

                • freedom …
                  20 March 2014 at 5:16 pm

                  “I certainly do not feel that people from other areas and/or industries should not comment on aspects outside there sphere.”
                  doesn’t that completely contradict what you wrote earlier?
                  and would you not agree “consumer durables” is a tad vague?

                  All that aside, I hate flame wars too, which is why I like The Standard. At The Standard, despite the odd drag strip crash that goes down, mostly people really are interested in real world experiences and the dialogue that goes with it. As I wrote about the other day, the sharing of experiences is what grows a community. Without sincere attempts to learn about the lives others are living, how can the differences or the similarities be focused on? If that focus does not exist, then it is extremely difficult to adequately and honestly identify problems. As you work in manufacturing you would agree that without identifying a problem it will be impossible to resolve it.

                  Good to hear you are doing well, peace.

          • BryC 2.2.1.2.2
            20 March 2014 at 3:49 pm

            see latest stats release, manufacturing up

            • freedom 2.2.1.2.2.1
              20 March 2014 at 4:29 pm

              Wages are up as well, apparently.
              As is government debt, household debt, power prices, real unemployment, Insurance costs, council rates, hospital waiting lists, food prices, house prices, postage, petrol, etc

            • McFlock 2.2.1.2.2.2
              20 March 2014 at 4:45 pm

              really? That’s nice.
              The longer term suggests that manufacturing is not a career to get into.

            • lprent 2.2.1.2.2.3
              20 March 2014 at 5:08 pm

              This is the December 2013 quarter? Since you didn’t link to it, then lets go with that shall we…

              Look at it a bit more closely (foolish dickhead). Look at the rise in non-primary sector manufacturing. Minimal eh?

              Tell me what does increasing milk powder production do for the rest of the economy? Short answer is fuck-all. Which is also a good expression for your attention to detail.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.1.3
          20 March 2014 at 2:38 pm

          And if you have the National Party in your pocket, it’s even gooder, especially when all the little Party followers come out and start shushing and smearing and covering up.

          So what if you’re a micro-dairy business that doesn’t own its own justice minister? That’s just the breaks, and anyway, the largest minority voted for kleptocracy, and that’s what we’re getting.

      • greywarbler 2.2.2
        20 March 2014 at 11:06 am

        vto
        Cool it. Don’t wear yourself out so early in the election run up. Take a nice glass of water and listen to 10 minutes of music that’s the prescription of Dr Doctor.

        • vto 2.2.2.1
          20 March 2014 at 11:16 am

          yeah I know, chill out… the economy is good …. all else is irrelevant …. corruption no matter …. nothing like that happens here in good old kiwiland …. we’re the best …

          sheesh fulla, talk about confirmation of the point made

        • vto 2.2.2.2
          20 March 2014 at 11:26 am

          tra la la ….

          there is no depression in Noo Zeeealaand

          …. tra la la

          • greywarbler 2.2.2.2.1
            20 March 2014 at 11:48 am

            I like your music vto – keep up our spirits as you go. Soon it will be May day and we could skip around the pole and so on.

            That’s an idea. Could we in the future make enough electricity to keep some outdoor lights going or something not needing too much electricity by having a childs playground roundabout and everyone that goes down the street during the day, takes a turn to run it, wind up the battery for the lighting at night. And it would play music as it was turning. So there would be a payoff for the actor.

            Some mothers do have ’em. I come up with these regularly. They possibly could work too but any new idea to a NZ is a wild and odd thing so they are bound to produce hilarity. Hope this made you laugh vto.

          • freedom 2.2.2.2.2
            20 March 2014 at 2:17 pm

            best ear worm ever

    • Enough is Enough 2.3
      20 March 2014 at 9:27 am

      This is outrageous.

      This will be the end of Key. His corruption has been exposed.

      He simply must resign today. There is no other option available to him after being exposed like this.

  3. phillip ure 3
    20 March 2014 at 7:25 am

    an aspect of the legal-high ‘problem’..

    ..that most seem to miss..

    ..(and which has been repeated/emphasised by the recent ‘experts’ rolling thru the country..)

    ..is that those places that have a legalised/regulated/taxed cannabis regime..

    ..they have no ‘legal-high problem’..

    ..and i hafta say..being in day four of ‘withdrawals’ from years of daily cannabis use..

    ..meh..!

    ..and for me..

    ..this personal experience/anecdotal just confirms what a safe intoxicant cannabis is..

    ..and as we are in day one of a (regular) major pot-sweep thru nthland..(costing how much..?..)

    ..it could pay to think of colorado for a mo’..

    ..’cos in their first month of legalised/regulated/taxed cannnabis..

    ..the state not only received $2 million in that tax revenue..

    ..into that plus you also have to factor in the savings from not having police engage in these costly rope-a-dope exercises in intimidation..

    ..and of course..were police not engaged in this ultimately futile exercise..

    ..they could focus on the crime they claim they are under-resourced to fight..

    ..y’know..!..real ‘crime’..

    ..eh..?

    ..with victims..

  4. Tinfoilhat 4
    20 March 2014 at 7:25 am

    @sarbo, Labour will do next to nothing for him better to vote Green or Mana

    • geoff 4.1
      20 March 2014 at 7:57 am

      I don’t think what you’re saying is correct. We haven’t seen Labour’s industrial policy yet but I imagine it will be specifically focussed on helping the likes of Saarbo’s nephew.

      regardless, a Left vote is the most important thing.

      • tinfoilhat 4.1.1
        20 March 2014 at 8:32 am

        A vote for Labour is NOT a left vote.

        • Tracey 4.1.1.1
          20 March 2014 at 9:16 am

          agree… its at best a national lite vote.

        • Te Reo Putake 4.1.1.2
          20 March 2014 at 9:48 am

          oooh, red guard alert. All religions are false, except mine. Heaven comes to those who believe in me, but beware false prophets, such as my twin. There is one true path to salvation, eastasia is at war with eurasia and always has been.

          • weka 4.1.1.2.1
            20 March 2014 at 10:51 am

            Perhaps you could link to the relevant Labour policy, TRP (I can’t find it on their website).

            Here’s the Green Party policy

            https://www.greens.org.nz/policy/industrial-relations-policy-sustainable-working-life

            • Te Reo Putake 4.1.1.2.1.1
              20 March 2014 at 11:06 am

              Thanks for that, Weka. Labour foreshadowed the ‘industrial standards’ framework at conference 2012 (some sterling work there by Darien Fenton, now also with Andrew Little’s input) and the final version will be announced as part of the election policy rollout. As I noted, it fits in well with the Greens policy of employment fairness and we can look forward to the best working environment in NZ in 30 years when we change the government.

          • Murray Olsen 4.1.1.2.2
            20 March 2014 at 9:16 pm

            The only false religion of concern here is neoliberalism. Perhaps we could have camps to get rid of the indoctrination with this false religion that so many of the Labour caucus still suffer from. Left wing politics in general doesn’t require religious belief at all. Most of us are happy dealing with facts and, if a policy prescription doesn’t work, we don’t think that we haven’t applied it in a pure enough form. We look for an alternative. I haven’t yet seen anything to suggest that Labour’s leaders have reached this stage.

  5. Ant 5
    20 March 2014 at 8:08 am

    Looks like “red blooded” Shane is at it again :p

    • Not a PS Staffer 5.1
      20 March 2014 at 8:50 am

      Jones:
      13 % of members
      11.92% of affiliates

      Cunliffe:
      60.14% of members
      70.77% of affiliates

      Red Blooded’s attack on the Supermarkets & Green and anything Australian gave him headlines but oooops the Labour figures still went down! Shane can’t help himself: vanity of that degree is a terrible affliction.

  6. marty mars 6
    20 March 2014 at 8:47 am

    An interesting article – http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11222665

    Two-thirds (66 per cent) of the 17,300 babies born in New Zealand last year with Maori ethnicity were also registered with at least one other ethnicity.

    The same applies to 50 per cent of Pacific babies, 31 per cent of Asian babies and 29 per cent of European babies.

    Similarly, 69 per cent of people in couples who listed Maori as one of their ethnicities in last year’s Census had partners with no Maori ethnicity, 46 per cent of Pacific people had partners with no Pacific ethnicity, 24 per cent of Asians had partners with no Asian ethnicity, and 12 per cent of Europeans had partners with no European ethnicity.

    Why the difference or rather what factors influence the difference I wonder.

    Is European an ethnicity? Do people from ‘europe’ think they have the same ethnicity? I would find a yes to be quite strange – the same with Asian – there are lots of ethnicites within ‘Asia’ I would have thought.

    In fact the employment and welfare gaps between Maori and Europeans in particular have widened, as the equalising forces in health and education have been trumped by more powerful forces worsening economic inequality: globalisation, deunionisation, tax and welfare changes, and technological shifts that have lifted demand for skilled workers and reduced demand for the unskilled.

    Today’s final batch of figures shows that this widening inequality translates into a measurably worsening quality of life for Maori in particular, and for Pacific people too on some measures.

    A worsening quality of life is shameful but not as shameful to this country as this

    The Ministry of Justice says 20 per cent of Maori men who turn 39 this year were imprisoned before they turned 35, 4.2 times the non-Maori rate. Corrections Department research says this may partly reflect discrimination by police and the justice system, but primarily reflects socio-economic conditions such as family breakdown, leaving school early and unemployment.

    The process is self-perpetuating because imprisonment itself helps to break up families, disrupts education and makes it extremely difficult to get a job after leaving jail.

    I feel like crying when I read those statistics – we lay waste to generations of men and then wonder why they struggle to parent, to be non abusive partners, to have self esteem. We don’t send them to the trenches but they wallow in mud and rats and despair just the same. And then we blame them for the misfortune we heaped upon them.

    • Tracey 6.1
      20 March 2014 at 9:20 am

      according to tighty righty if the economy is growing thats all that matters. a vote for labour changes nothing of the problems you outline. they are prepared to be or look lacking in compassion to win the mysterious ordinay nzer, who i dont accept has no compassion, they may have forgotten they have it.

    • karol 6.2
      20 March 2014 at 9:29 am

      What is “ethnicity”?

      In sociology, it’s usually defined as a group of people sharing the same culture. “Race” is usually defined as a (failed) attempt to define people by biological characteristics – failed because inter-breeding between “racial” groups have been going on for millennia.

      One definition of the difference between “race” and “ethnicity”:

      The traditional definition of race and ethnicity is related to biological and sociological factors respectively. Race refers to a person’s physical appearance, such as skin color, eye color, hair color, bone/jaw structure etc. Ethnicity, on the other hand, relates to cultural factors such as nationality, culture, ancestry, language and beliefs.

      But a group sharing the same culture also is usually made up of a network of (biological) ancestral lines – whanua, hapu, iwi, etc, in the case of Maori. So biology and culture become interconnected.

      I identify myself as Pakeha, NZ European, NZ-Brit (with a strong Scottish ancestral line). Not clear cut. But in terms of shared culture, there are some (relatively general) historical values and cultural practices that are shared throughout Europe. Within that, there are differneces – for instance, Scottish people tend to lean more to the left, and value things like a good liberal-democratising education for all, than the majority of English descent.

  7. risildowgtn 7
    20 March 2014 at 8:49 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/9846923/Will-Key-forgive-this-breathtaking-disaster

    Yep….. why he backs this idiot is beyond me

    I say keep her in. She is as big a fool as Brownlee……..

    • ianmac 7.1
      20 March 2014 at 9:17 am

      risldowgtn It seems likely that the shift to the SFO is a ploy to shut the matter down. “Can’t answer that as it is now in the hands of the SFO.” The threshold for the SFO involvement does not seem to be anywhere near being met. The huge shift from one day to the next looks like someone else took over the problem. Eggleton?

  8. Brett 8
    20 March 2014 at 8:54 am

    @sarbo Probably tax his company out of existence and put him on a benefit so he gets some free time?

  9. Macro 9
    20 March 2014 at 8:59 am

    this is so true – it’s sad and brilliant at the same time
    “Politicians discussing global warming” – a statue in Berlin by Issac Cordal
    https://twitter.com/NigelBritto/status/445907334410166272/photo/1

  10. bad12 10
    20 March 2014 at 9:15 am

    Te Maori Parties Te Ururoa Flavell will be on National radio’s Nine to Noon in about ten minutes in the ongoing election years interviews being conducted with Party leaders,

    This might turn into an elongated mea culpa from Flavell for the Maori Party having been the lapdog of the National Government for the past nearly six years…

  11. ianmac 11
    20 March 2014 at 9:25 am

    Judith Collins has laid some sort of complaint with TVNZ over her coverage. What is this all about?

  12. phillip ure 12
    20 March 2014 at 10:18 am

    (this vid is kinda cool..for a ukraine perspective/context..

    ..and how about that poland..?..whoar..!..

    ..now you see it..now you don’t..)

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/crimea-just-a-blip-time-lapse-map-video-shows-1000-years-of-europes-history-in-three-minutes-9201414.html

    • phillip ure 12.1
      20 March 2014 at 11:09 am

      and..bloody hell..!

      ..i find i am in agreement with american libertarian/rightwinger ron paul..

      ..he has penned an opinion-piece titled:

      ‘..crimea secedes – so what?..’

      (gulp..!..does this mean i now have to go and join act..?..)

      • joe90 12.1.1
        20 March 2014 at 11:40 am

        So, do we compare Crimea with the Sudetenland before or after Putin decides Ukraine is part of greater Russia?.

        • phillip ure 12.1.1.1
          20 March 2014 at 11:58 am

          don’t you think that 90%+ vote in support of rejoining russia..

          ..is difficult to ignore..?

          ..(and of course..america/england issuing pious platitudes about countries ‘sovereignty’..

          ..in the light of the countries they have invaded/regime-toppled in recent times..

          ..is kinda beyond irony..)

          • vto 12.1.1.1.1
            20 March 2014 at 12:30 pm

            Didn’t the west just help topple a democratically elected government in Ukraine?

            Why are they not applying the same approach there as in Crimea?

            Why?

            te ruskies are having a good laugh at the west’s expense and I can’t help but join in their laughter (just as long as they don’t threaten us with attack as they did 100 years ago… but yeah, nobody ever invades good ol’ NZ, the germans never laid mines across Lyttleton harbour, the Japs never flew sorties over Northland ….. tra la la … there is no depression in noo zeealaand … (to borrow from above)) – sandholes available for heads. $2 each.

        • joe90 12.1.1.2
          20 March 2014 at 12:09 pm

          Voters were given two options, to rejoin Russia now or to rejoin Russia later with no option to stay with Ukraine.

          http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26598832

          • phillip ure 12.1.1.2.1
            20 March 2014 at 12:33 pm

            but voting wasn’t compulsory..

            ..and the turnout was high..

            ..meaning as a result showing the will of those people..

            ..that can’t really just be ignored/of no matter..

            ..surely..?

            ..a comparison could be 90% of nz’ers voting to decide to a formal union with australia..(unlikely..i know..)..

            ..and america and britain going..’no yr not!’..

            ..we’d likely tell them to just fuck off..eh..?

            • phillip ure 12.1.1.2.1.1
              20 March 2014 at 12:38 pm

              and of course..it is hard to forget that this has all come about as a reaction to the latest regime-change attempt by america..(neo-nazis..?..anyone..?..)

              ..had they left well alone..

              .we would be talking about something else..

              ..did they really/seriously think putin wd just roll-over..to the idea of having an american-supported regime..

              ..squatting right on his doorstep..?

              ..w.t.f. were they smoking..?

              • Draco T Bastard …
                20 March 2014 at 2:19 pm

                w.t.f. were they smoking..?

                It’s the basic hubris of an empire at the end of it’s reign. Instead of working to bring about their desired end they think that they can simply declare it to be the way that they want it to be, then they get upset when it isn’t and declare what actually happened illegal according to their rules – rules which they themselves ignore.

          • phillip ure 12.1.1.3.1
            20 March 2014 at 12:59 pm

            from yr second link..

            “..International observers who oversaw the referendum also said the vote was carried out surprisingly professionally –

            considering how little time there was to prepare, –
            and even if who was allowed to vote was a little bit unclear, –
            the vote itself seems to have been credible..”

          • joe90 12.1.1.3.2
            20 March 2014 at 1:21 pm

            .International observers who oversaw the referendum also said the vote was carried out surprisingly professionally

            Your faith in people like Christian Verougstraete (Vlaams Belang) and Béla Kovács (Jobbik) is touching.
            /.

            • phillip ure 12.1.1.3.2.1
              20 March 2014 at 1:37 pm

              c’mon joe..

              ..they weren’t the only ones…

              (in yr link above..the author admits there were 50 other observers..that he knows diddly-squat about..)

              ..so you think we should just ignore that referendum result..?

              ..and ignore that crimea people are russian..?

              ..here is gorbachevs’ perspective/take..

              “.The world should welcome the prospect of Crimea becoming part of Russia as it rectifies a historic mistake from the Soviet era, the Soviet Union’s last leader Mikhail Gorbachev said Monday.

              Mr. Gorbachev said that Crimea had only ended up in the territory of post-Soviet Ukraine because it had been transferred from Russia by Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev when both countries were part of the USSR..”

              http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37985.htm

            • joe90 12.1.1.3.2.2
              20 March 2014 at 1:55 pm

              ..they weren’t the only ones…

              AFAIK the Eurasian Observatory For Democracy & Elections hasn’t provided any details on who the observers were and I’ve linked up-thread to a list of the observers who’ve been identified so who were the other ones?.

              • phillip ure …
                20 March 2014 at 2:02 pm

                who were the others..?

                ..ask yr link..eh..?

                ..and the only humour i have seen from this..

                ..is a russian cabinet minister commenting on threatened boycotts/sanctions from america..

                ..he said:..’the only thing i like about america is tupac..and i will still be able to listen to him..’

                (anyway..q-time commentary calls..answers will be delayed..)

      • Draco T Bastard 12.1.2
        20 March 2014 at 2:10 pm

        (gulp..!..does this mean i now have to go and join act..?..)

        hahahaha, no 😈

  13. greywarbler 13
    20 March 2014 at 11:36 am

    Tony Ryall got a comment some time ago that he had kept the health portfolio on an even keel everything quiet on the western front. Well now Auckland DHB appears to be seriously worried. Ructions ensue. Experts comment – Salaried Medical specialists, Nurses Organisation, Health Organisation watchdogs. Watch this space.

    And Hone Harawira this morning on Radonz about Te Kohanga Reo Trust was superb. He made good points in a strong, firm clear way. Assertive not aggressive. Great. He is sounding like Winston Peters who is I think a superb speaker and good at holding his point.
    But Hone is coming over as having real integrity.

    The Maori TV reporter was interesting. The Trust no longer lets them know when they are holding media conferences. They aren’t wanted apparently. Things have been revealed that are embarrassing.

    But the integrity of Maori organisations needs to be scrutinised if they are to progress and get the fair funding that they need. Can’t have rednecks slagging off Maori projects as rorts. One of my relatives has had input into a Maori business and noticed a tendency to spend up on individual wants and not pay enough attention to the good running of the business to ensure it was staying healthy. In the business contracts had to be met, machinery needed to be checked and serviced, and that was not always done. Money was spent elsewhere.

    The project, the enterprise, must be cared for as a taonga, whatever type of thing it is, and must receive adequate care consistently and carefully. This includes keeping an eye on money, wages, the outgoings going to the right places. It needs someone responsible who insists on the important rules being followed and has power to enforce them. And doesn’t put up with carelessness, shiftiness, flouting, ignoring those instructions and rules.

  14. blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 14
    20 March 2014 at 3:02 pm

    Great work from the left in parliament yesterday

    Jan Logie, Trevor Mallard, Russell Norman and David Clark’s speeches are well worth the read. (These are only the ones I saw – there are likely other very good ones from the left that I didn’t see)

    Draft Transcript here

    Very interesting information from Trevor Mallard:

    I want to ask members opposite what they hope to raise from asset sales—$4.6 billion. What have they lost through not investing in the Superannuation Fund—$10 billion. The National Party has through its mad policy on the Superannuation Fund sacrificed $10 billion that will have to be taken out in future from the taxpayers of New Zealand.

    … We have got in the last 12 months a 27 percent—27 percent—return from the Superannuation Fund, an average over its life of 9.55 percent. At the point where the Government was borrowing at 3.2 percent, it was turning down the alternative of getting 9.55 percent return from the Superannuation Fund and 17 percent—17 percent—from the assets that it has sold. They claim to be a Government with a knowledge of economic management. They claim—

  16. phillip ure 16
    20 March 2014 at 5:11 pm

    trotter has done a good piece on what cunnliffe/labour have to do…

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/03/19/what-the-hells-gone-wrong-with-cunliffe/

    • bad12 16.1
      20 March 2014 at 8:36 pm

      A good one from Trotter, think tho Jones and Roberston are doing the job they are supposed to be doing while Cunliffe will be out on the road selling the message,

      Chris is right tho, with His prescription of what the Joe Average bloke would want to see from Labour,

      Its the ‘bread and butter’ stuff that is missing from Labour, and i would suggest its missing because Labour have no intention of delivering anything of the sort,

      Do i see any ‘great’ difference between what David Cunliffe’s Labour is promising in 2014 than what Phill Goff’s Labour were promising in 2011,

      Sadly no…

      • geoff 16.1.1
        20 March 2014 at 10:25 pm

        Trotter has taken to joining the Herald columnists and pissing on Labour’s fire just as it looks like it could take off.

        no doubt if it looks like Labour can pull off an election win then trotter will instantly change his tune and it’ll be as if these last few columns never existed.

        That’s why I have no respect for his opinion.

        I don’t think he is in touch with the internals of the Labour party anymore either. I’d say quite a few of the new power players in the party would have nothing to do with Totter and so he’s out of the loop and resents that.

  17. aerobubble 17
    20 March 2014 at 5:19 pm

    China. It sneezes we get a cold.

    What does Putin invasion of the Crimea mean for Taiwan? Does China’s airspace policy over the China sea mean for peace? And what would have happened had MH372 gone east not west, crashing into the south china seas?

    The USSR cleansed Crimea of Tartars, who were returning under the Ukrainian government, will this be reversed? Will other former soviet states now be looking decidedly uncomfortable if they have large russian speaking populations. Didn’t Poland sign a peace treaty with the UK after Hitler invaded the Sudatun province???

  18. drongo 18
    20 March 2014 at 7:12 pm

    I suspect DotCom, the Green’s wealthiest backer, is in trouble for not paying his people even the minimum wage.

    Shame on him, while we await Norman’s condemnation.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 18.1
      20 March 2014 at 7:32 pm

      Backer? Funny kind of backing to form a party against their co-leader’s advice. Still, I guess wingnut trash will say anything rather than face up to Gusher Collins and Parroty.

      Serious Fraud Office, conflicts of interest, audiences with the lying Prime Minister for sale. No wonder you’d rather dribble over John Banks’ owner.

  19. tricledrown 19
    20 March 2014 at 9:22 pm

    Tigharse almighty seti.
    So no mention of the factories that holden and f&p given rent free and tax free for 15 year breaking world trade rules by the Thai govt no mentio.
    Also destroying the strategic manufacting ability within Australia and NZ.
    Factories are reopening in the US because of supplying savings and subsidies.
    Boeing wants a $ 9 billion state subsidy to continue manufacturing planes in washington state.
    Your free market doesn’t exist.
    Except where big players bully small players out of the market so the big players monopolize to guarantee no competition.

  20. tricledrown 20
    20 March 2014 at 10:22 pm

    Nakered man.
    So farmers band together to form a coopetative union called
    Fonterra to make sure they get good profits and markets when workers band together to get good conditipns its all bad according to you.

  21. tricledrown 21
    20 March 2014 at 10:22 pm

    Nakered man.
    So farmers band together to form a coopetative union called
    Fonterra to make sure they get good profits and markets when workers band together to get good conditipns its all bad according to you.

  22. Penny Bright 22
    20 March 2014 at 11:00 pm

    FYI – I should be hearing back very soon from Auckland Central Police as to the outcome of the following four complaints I have filed:

    Two against Mayor Len Brown (alleged money-laundering and bribery and corruption),

    One against former Auckland Council CEO Doug McKay for alleged contravention of statute, because the bogus Ernst and Young Report did not follow the due process outlined in s.8 (Compliance) of the Auckland Council Code of Conduct.

    An assault complaint against two Council Officers who tried to forcibly remove me from the CEO Review Committee meeting on 20 February 2014, after I was denied speaking rights by Auckland Councillor Chris Fletcher when I tried to expose new CEO Stephen Town’s conflict of interest by being a member of the unelected, highly powerful private lobby group – the Committee for Auckland (which he purportedly denied, despite my evidence to the contrary).

    Could this have anything to do with the threat to sell my house?

    Gosh – I wonder ………….

    Seems that anti-corruption citizen ‘whistle-blowers’ in New Zealand have no legal protections whatsoever when trying to expose corruption at local government level.

    High time that changed.

    Fascinating the difference between my treatment as an anti-corruption ‘whistleblower’, defending citizens’ lawful rights to ‘open, transparent and democratically accountable local government, and Minister of Justice Judith Collins, who most definitely has a major conflict of interest in helping to promote a company (Oravida) of which her husband is a Director.

    In my considered opinion as an anti-corruption campaigner – her actions were CORRUPT.

    End of story.

    I get censored, assaulted and now Auckland Council are threatening to sell my house – yet Judith Collins – Minister of JUSTICE gets protected by NZ Prime Minister – shonky John Key – in a similar way to his protection of dodgy John Banks?

    Well – we all know what has happened to the DEFENDANT John Banks ….

    A 10 day trial for electoral fraud, starting on 19 May 2014.

    PS: If the Police chose not to act on my above-mentioned complaints – then there is always the possibility of Graham McCready / NZ Private Prosecution Services Ltd picking up the ball, the same way he did with John Banks.

    Hopefully – that will not be necessary …………

    Penny Bright

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz

  23. papa tuanuku 23
    20 March 2014 at 11:51 pm

    http://tvnz.co.nz/seven-sharp

    Jehan fights back. The clip on Miniginui fighting back could go viral and global. A right winger being held to account.

  24. Philj 24
    21 March 2014 at 8:31 am

    Xox
    I spoke to a horticultural worker and he tells me of seasonal Labour from the islands, 18 workers to a residential house, charged $130 per week. That’s 4.5 to a room (4 square metres per person) Plus charged to transport to work. And these are low paid labour, so what they get in the hand is… It’s OK though, as is approved by our Government Authorities. This reflects badly on New Zealand Inc. Reminds me of the movie “Twelve years a Snave ” These people are being exploited at a vinyard, Orchard or farm near you. Is this the “Brighter Future” promised by the Key Gang?

  25. A VOTER 25
    23 March 2014 at 1:35 pm

    Seems these days if you sit down to read The Standard in about 5 minutes of starting you get this rock in your guts yes its the stone of the corporate national party and the impending reality that your not alone(GCSB snooping ?)
    If your a lefty or commee in your communications with the appropriate collection of alert words will almost see you on the list of rising concern
    Fuckin Key bugger off and take your control freak corporate money govt to the grave asap while decent people get on with life without your pseudo paranoid shit dribbling down on every worker in this country whose a slave to your protectionist right wing bullshit which will destroy this nation
    That should about do it?