Open Mike 20/09/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 20th, 2017 - 171 comments
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171 comments on “Open Mike 20/09/2017”

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  1. Tony Veitch (not etc) 1
    20 September 2017 at 6:24 am

    When Caribbean islands which normally might experience a category 5 hurricane once every five or ten years, get 2 category 5s in less than a month, we’ve moved beyond Climate Change.

    It’s time we started using George Monibot’s term: CLIMATE BREAKDOWN!

    http://www.monbiot.com/2013/10/04/climate-breakdown/

  2. Carolyn_nth 2
    20 September 2017 at 6:31 am

    So Nat’s infrastructure plan had roads and stadiums being more important than oil pipeline from north to Auckland.

    Key failure.

    And another Key failure: benefit sanctions.

    Newshub’s Lisa Owen reports, what we already knew, but now there’s hard evidence:

    Newshub can reveal the Government has no evidence to suggest that benefit sanctions on solo parents do anything to encourage wayward fathers to pay their share of child support.

    In fact, it means the families are at higher risk of hardship and long term welfare dependency.

    Currently people on a solo parent benefit can have their payment docked if they don’t name the other parent of their child. In 98 percent of cases that’s the father.
    …
    The so-called section 70a sanction is aimed at getting child support payments from the absent parent.

    More than three months ago Newshub asked the Ministry of Social Development to release, under the Official Information Act, any evidence that the sanctions worked.

    MSD refused the request.

    But it was forced to turn over more than 100 pages of material before the election, after the Ombudsman intervened.

    The reports addressed to Social Development Minister Anne Tolley say, “We do not have sufficient evidence to confirm if the benefit reduction is achieving the policy’s intent.”

    • AsleepWhileWalking 2.1
      20 September 2017 at 7:02 am

      Yeah this section if the Act penalises people who take on responsibility where nobody else will.

      The penalty only exists when a child is kept by one parent (and of course that child will suffer by extension…as if all the statstics on single parent families and the disadvantage to the child weren’t enough if a handicap the government decides to fuck these kids over even more). It doesn’t apply if the child goes elsewhere like a foster home or extended family.

      If you agree that the best place for children is with their own parent, then it is totally inappropriate to penalise sole families in this way.

      • AsleepWhileWalking 2.1.1
        20 September 2017 at 7:13 am

        The penalty can be lifted by swearing an affidavit stating your child was a result of rape/incest.

        Why would anyone think this is acceptable to force a parent to make such a choice? What if the child had political ambitions or became famous?

      • James 2.1.2
        20 September 2017 at 8:02 am

        And why (in general – there will always be exceptions) should the father not be named so he can be held to account to make payments for the child?

        • crashcart 2.1.2.1
          20 September 2017 at 8:18 am

          Why bother naming the father when there is no evidence that it improves payment rates. You are essentially punishing both the parent and the child for no reason.

          • James 2.1.2.1.1
            20 September 2017 at 8:23 am

            I asked why not first ……

            • Crashcart 2.1.2.1.1.1
              20 September 2017 at 11:24 am

              Why might people not want to name fathers? They may know that the father is in no position to make payments and not want to put them in the line of fire for MSD. The father may have questionable citizenship. There are plenty of reasons why a mother may not want to name a father.

              Can you give one valid reason for why they should have too? There is no evidence that it improves payment rates. If you want to punish people you have to have a valid goal. This policy does not appear to have one.

            • McFlock 2.1.2.1.1.2
              20 September 2017 at 1:55 pm

              because there’s no point to it because there’s no evidence it improves payment rates.

            • Tracey 2.1.2.1.1.3
              13 October 2017 at 3:52 pm

              But fathers not paying when named came before this section so, you first. Why don’t we recover from fathers very well James?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.2.2
          20 September 2017 at 8:29 am

          Because demanding a name abuses your victim’s human rights. Personally I think you should be held accountable for that.

          • James 2.1.2.2.1
            20 September 2017 at 8:31 am

            How is father a victim?

            • Cinny 2.1.2.2.1.1
              20 September 2017 at 8:39 am

              Morning James, from a womans point of view……

              Imagine pregnancy via a stranger raping you, and you decide to keep the child, how on earth are you going to name a stranger. And would you really want your child knowing what they were the result of OR knowing their father (even if you knew his name), if the father did such an act.

              Another scenario… pregnant via a one night stand. See guys have no problem with one night stands, possibly because they can’t get pregnant, a one night stand where you only remember their first name, and the guy might not even remember you cause you were both drunk.

              Need any more examples? It’s not as cut and dry as some may think.

              And who suffers the most, the child and the mother who knows she doesn’t know the name of the father and as if it’s not hard enough being a solo mum, they have even less money to feed their child.

              • james …
                20 September 2017 at 8:54 am

                I did say “in general” as there are always exceptions.

                As for rape – of course this should never be named – as is already allowed for.

                As for one night stands – you miss the point that the woman seems to have no issue with it as well – its not just the guys

                But what about people who have kids with people they know and NOT as a result of abuse etc? Why should they NOT be named?

                • miravox …
                  20 September 2017 at 9:09 am

                  In general?

                  How about not naming the father is because you’ve been threatened with having the living daylights beaten out of you (given NZs domestic violence rates that’s not an unlikely scenario), or the threat of a custody dispute with any history you’ve ever had being publicised or lied about. Or the father simply denying it was him and putting forward several other names to shame the mother as well as avoid responsibility.

                  • james …
                    20 September 2017 at 9:11 am

                    How about you answer my easy question first ?

                    But what about people who have kids with people they know and NOT as a result of abuse etc? Why should they NOT be named?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      20 September 2017 at 9:18 am

                      Already answered. It’s called “freedom of expression”.

                    • Molly …
                      20 September 2017 at 9:33 am

                      “How about you answer my easy question first ?”

                      How about answering these easy questions?
                      How does any child cost $20/wk less to take care of? (putting aside the chronic underfunding for the moment)
                      How do letters on a form in the father’s name make a practical difference?
                      How do you justify this requirement when evidence provided by MSD shows there is no benefit to this request?

                      Why do you think you need to know, apart from your need to know?

                    • joe90 …
                      20 September 2017 at 9:33 am

                      But what about people who have kids with people they know and NOT as a result of abuse etc?

                      From what I’ve seen James, fear. Foregoing a portion of a benefit is infinitely preferable to living in fear of a violent man who resents being on the hook for a fifth or more of his after tax income.

                    • miravox …
                      20 September 2017 at 9:48 am

                      “But what about people who have kids with people they know and NOT as a result of abuse etc?

                      I just did. These things can (and do) happen when a relationship breaks up.

                    • Brigid …
                      20 September 2017 at 11:10 am

                      You obviously know who these women are so answer this.
                      Who are the women who are in this situation? How many are there? What are their names?

                    • Tracey …
                      13 October 2017 at 3:56 pm

                      Punishing children through this section hasn’t worked. What next James?

                • Cinny …
                  20 September 2017 at 9:11 am

                  Often drunk chicks give in to male pressure and just do it to get it over and done with, so they aren’t hassled and gropped any more. Which sucks, and is really really common.

                  Anyways… why should they not be named? Because the mother feels there would be no emotional benefit to the child from doing so, Miravox provides a fantastic example on that. Maybe later they might change their mind and name the father, and that’s ok.

                • Janice …
                  20 September 2017 at 9:54 am

                  James. have you ever had a one night stand, there may be a little James out there somewhere.

                  • reason …
                    20 September 2017 at 1:05 pm

                    James has vouched for ‘public toilet sex ‘ in the past …..

                    So God knows who what and where he has stuck it in ……

                    He says “don’t knock it”

                    But to solo mums he’d like to sock it ……..

                  • Tracey …
                    13 October 2017 at 3:58 pm

                    James would go to the authorities and demand to be on the birth certificate and then he would pay all the arrears. Right James?

                • tracey …
                  20 September 2017 at 3:40 pm

                  Are you sure when they say they were raped they do not get questioned about why they didnt press charges.

                • Tracey …
                  13 October 2017 at 3:54 pm

                  Why are men not naming themselves James?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.2.2.1.2
              20 September 2017 at 9:17 am

              Do you really not understand that it’s the mother’s human rights you’re proposing (salivating, probably) to abuse?

            • Tracey 2.1.2.2.1.3
              13 October 2017 at 3:53 pm

              I am sure most fathers know they have become fathers, wonder why they don’t come forward?

        • tracey 2.1.2.3
          20 September 2017 at 3:38 pm

          If we are not holding to account so many men whose names we know, why add to the list?

        • Tracey 2.1.2.4
          13 October 2017 at 3:51 pm

          We fail to hold to account those whose names we do know. Why is that James

    • Tracey 2.3
      13 October 2017 at 3:50 pm

      Released before the election but we didn’t publish it or their blocking of it til after the election…

  3. eco Maori/kiwi 3
    20 September 2017 at 6:45 am

    Apologies to MSM I allready new that you would not be able to grasp my reality as you are human’s to.There are people out there that no what I have said to be fact. But the positives out come hopefully is that OUR youth will keep out of the shit .
    Now all of OUR export based organisations and people working for them If I was YOU
    I would get a subscription to pay and support Joseph Parker Campaign to Dominate the WORLD heavy weight boxing .
    AS THIS WILL BE THE CHEAPEST WAY TO ADVERTISE NEW ZEALAND AND YOUR EXPORT PRODUCTS TO THE WORLD I will get one because I Love OUR beautiful country

  4. James 4
    20 September 2017 at 7:28 am

    I think there are two polls out this evening. I predict they will close a bit from being so far spark over the last few weeks.

    But who knows – polling has been crazy.

    I predict:
    National up a little
    Labour down a little
    Greens down in the real danger zone of being wiped out (5-6%)
    NZ first a little higher than the greens but not by much.

    • Robert Guyton 4.1
      20 September 2017 at 8:02 am

      All Blacks 3, England, nil.

    • millsy 4.2
      20 September 2017 at 8:41 am

      Probably right. National will probably end up taking this out.

      Im hoping Im wrong, but I don’t want to be too dissapointed on election night.

      There will be some really hard questions about where to go from here after this.

    • Cinny 4.3
      20 September 2017 at 8:45 am

      I predict Greens up, labour up a little, nat’s down a little, not sure about the rest.

      What do you do on election night James?

      I remember my parents being invited to a ‘party’ on an election night, they didn’t know it was an election party for the local nat’s. They turned up, blue everything, mum and dad basked in the nat’s loss that night, needless to say, the party finished early, everyone (apart from my folks) was feeling a bit blue.

      • james 4.3.1
        20 September 2017 at 8:48 am

        You asked me the other day what am I doing that night – I answered then.

        But in short – having people around to watch on the big screen and have a bit of a BBQ.

        Why? you angling for an invite?

    • Glenn 4.4
      20 September 2017 at 8:54 am

      I predict:
      National steady.
      Labour up by 1%
      Greens up by 1%
      NZ first hammered down to 4.5%

      • Union city greens 4.4.1
        20 September 2017 at 1:02 pm

        Labour and nats neck and neck.
        Greens up, Winston down.
        Labour and greens could form a government.

  5. Historian Pete 5
    20 September 2017 at 7:30 am

    Gareth Morgan:The Cat is out of the bag!! Gareth would like us to believe that his primary motivation in entering politics with the TOP Party is to create a more egalitarian and democratic N.Z. Nothing, in my opinion, could be further than the truth .His motivations are revealed by two of his policies.Namely , giving N.Z. a second house of parliament and introducing a constitution.If you look at countries with constitutions you see an ever widening gap between the super wealthy one percenters and the rest of the population. In the U.S. you will see that the constitution has impeded any efforts to bring about more equality. This is not surprising as this was the reason that the founding fathers introduced a constitution in the first place. They feared the power of the common people, and they cleverly introduced a hurdle that would stultify any efforts in that direction. The U.S. constitution has presided over the greatest inequality that exists in the developed world. And there is the two houses of parliament[Congress].They were also created to protect the wealth and position of landowners and to prevent democracy.
    The House of Lords, aptly named,in the U.K.is also just such an instrument to protect the rights and property of the wealthy, the aristocracy, and the Monarchy against the”Commons”.
    So, basically the Top policies mentioned are there to protect the wealth of the Oligarchs “in waiting”in N.Z. Lord Gareth is anticipating taking up his rightful position in N.Z., as we follow in the footsteps of the more progressive U.S. and U.K. And he will be supported by the ever growing numbers of the super rich and their sycophants , that are naturally increasing in N.Z. with the efforts of the National Party Government.N.Z. has become a bolthole for the oligarchs of the world, people like Peter Thiel,connected to the Five Eyes, and of course an adviser to U.S. president Trump. Thiel was given instant citizenship by another one of our home grown one percenter oligarchs in waiting Sir John Key.And Trademe founder Sam Morgan wrote a letter in support. Get the picture? Birds of a feather flock together.So, a N.Z.constitution and upper house is a plan so cunning that you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel! Do not be fooled by the insidious Top Party Trojan Horse!!

  6. marty mars 6
    20 September 2017 at 7:33 am

    after bill loses for the second time this weekend he might just reflect on the fact that now he doesn’t have to try and be a leader to cope with the tiny handed maniac.

    Donald Trump has made his strongest threat yet against North Korea, vowing to “totally destroy” the country if it attacks the US or its allies.

    In a wideranging speech to the United Nations General Assembly in New York overnight, the US President repeated his mocking nickname for Kim Jong-un – “Rocket Man” – and slammed his leadership as a “depraved regime”.

    “The United States has great strength and patience, but if it is forced to defend itself or its allies, we will have no choice but to totally destroy North Korea,” he said.

    “Rocket Man is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11924184

    Thank goodness wise heads and true leadership will be there with Jacinda and James.

  7. Dialey 7
    20 September 2017 at 7:38 am

    I’ve just heard from a friend who was a staunch John Key supporter, and therefore Nat voter, has voted Labour this time “because of Jacinda”. I hope that is a trend.

  8. Ad 8
    20 September 2017 at 8:13 am

    National proxies doing their job:

    “Farmers were encouraged by Fonterra subsidiary Farm Source Waikato to attend Monday’s march in Opposition leader Jacinda Ardern’s home town of Morrinsville, where many voiced their opposition to Labour’s plan to introduce a tax on water.

    In a group email obtained by the Herald, the head of Farm Source Waikato, Paul Grave, suggested farmers and their friends and neighbours attend the gathering.

    “As you may be aware, a group of Waikato farmers have organised a march in Morrinsville this Monday 18 September to highlight the environmental leadership shown by the dairy industry in our communities,” Grave said.

    “The march is a great opportunity for dairy farmers to show solidarity, engage with the Waikato community, and talk about the significant improvements that have been made on-farm in recent years, and plans for further work in the future,” he said.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11924010

    Should Labour get in power, they need to look beyond farmers, and head straight to the cause: Fonterra.

    • ianmac 8.1
      20 September 2017 at 10:24 am

      Vested interest for Fonterra? Anyway it was a pretty motley protest with many of those present just local Morrinsville folk there to watch the fun. Is that the best that they can do? Ha.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.2
      20 September 2017 at 2:12 pm

      Labour changed the legislation so that Fonterra could come into existence. Maybe it’s time to change it back.

      • Ad 8.2.1
        20 September 2017 at 2:15 pm

        Was the right thing to do at the time, but they have not lived up to their promise and I would sincerely want Fonterra to be reviewed. Haven’t seen it on the agenda so far.

  10. garibaldi 10
    20 September 2017 at 8:49 am

    Trump is no longer the Trump who ran for president. He is now just a mouthpiece for the American military machine, which is disastrous for the World. It means that the USA will set up an incident then blame the other side and go to war. This will happen anywhere they choose. They have done it countless times before. They just have to have war, war and war. Incidentally Hilary would have been no better.
    PS Let’s hope they can wait till after we vote National out!
    I’m off to work now. Someone else will have to tell James he is wrong!

  11. Ad 11
    20 September 2017 at 8:53 am

    Have any viewers under 30 on this site not voted yet?

    A few days ago there were 3,218,857 voters enrolled, which is 90% of those eligible.

    Nearly 20,000 fewer people under 30 were registered compared to 2014.

    http://www.elections.org.nz/research-statistics/enrolment-statistics-electorate

    In the last election, more than 200,000 eligible voters under 30 did not vote.

    The Labour support in the polls is strongest from young people.

    If there are young people who haven’t voted (or even enrolled ) yet, do so.

  12. greywarshark 12
    20 September 2017 at 9:09 am

    michael barnett of auckland chamber of commerce says that the airline fuel problem could have been alleviated if better infrastructure had been in place. Demand has gone up considerably yet the reserve held in Auckland have remained the same.

    Is this the same michael barnett who was one of the troika introducing the Treasury’s system of cutting government planning and regulating out and leaving it instead to business which, now who, know best how to run things efficiently?

    (I say who, because companies have in past decades been given the right of being treated as ‘persons’ in law. How a company with its larger strength and capital can be equal to a person can only equate in the brain of a money maker and his lawyer.)

    • tracey 12.1
      20 September 2017 at 3:46 pm

      Is it true taxpayers are being asked to stump up for any back up plan for the pipeline? I only ask cos petrol companies do quite well financially dont they? Is AirNZ getting compensation and from whom?

      • greywarshark 12.1.1
        20 September 2017 at 4:05 pm

        I don’t know and have been wondering myself. They are starting to talk about costs which must be huge. The petrol companies own the refinery I think and probably the holding tanks. The government every now and then like to take on the oil companies that have enough reserves to release a little bit and make the pollies seem effective. So Michael Barnett being one of those cunning rats that ended up in a good possie after doing the dirty on Labour voters, will probably be thinking up something that he can write a serious history essay about that has him in a starring role.

      • mary_a 12.1.2
        20 September 2017 at 4:16 pm

        tracey @ (12.1) … I think whoever is responsible should be up for any costs relating to this incident. Such as the company concerned for poaching swamp kauri to send to its overseas business.

        No doubt Judith Collins will know what’s going on here, being Minister of energy as well as Minister for Oravida!

        • greywarshark 12.1.2.1
          20 September 2017 at 9:21 pm

          I was just talking about this and someone pointed out that the pipeline is supposed to be 30 years old and due for replacement each 25 years. So that has to be taken into account. I’m a bit prejudiced about the swamp kauri digging which seemed to be a perfect vicious circle.

  13. Ad 13
    20 September 2017 at 9:14 am

    If an elected government failed in an advanced economy with a large agricultural base, would anyone notice? Not in the Netherlands:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-19/dutch-doing-just-fine-without-government-on-decade-high-growth

    So just in case New Zealand gets an election with no clear result and doesn’t have a government for a few months or indeed quite a few, it’s not the end of the world.

    • tracey 13.1
      20 September 2017 at 3:47 pm

      I recall when we didnt have one for about 9 weeks. Media gave us interesting news stories and joyrnalism.

      • Andrea 13.1.1
        20 September 2017 at 8:34 pm

        Belgium managed for more than 540 days and failed to descend into anarchy. Perhaps we could repeat the experiment, go for longer, and take our place in the Guinness Book of Records. Think of the money we could save!

  14. Cinny 14
    20 September 2017 at 9:24 am

    English is being interviewed on RNZ at the moment if any are interested. Defensive as

    Youtube stream here….

    • Rosemary McDonald 14.1
      20 September 2017 at 9:47 am

      Listening peripherally I thought it was a Party Political Broadcast….Kathryn did try…but sadly Bill is unable to speak in other than slogans and soundbites.

      • Bearded Git 14.1.1
        20 September 2017 at 9:58 am

        She did challenge him on the “Social Investment” issue. Bill continuously parrots this as though it is a solve-all breakthrough but Ryan said it was not working.

        I wish she had simply asked “why are there so many people begging and sleeping on the streets of Auckland”.

        Very noticeable when I was up there a few weeks ago.

      • ianmac 14.1.2
        20 September 2017 at 10:30 am

        Exactly. He ploughs on regardless of the question. Like the Jehhovva Witness folk who respond with a spiel distantly related to the question.
        “Nice day today”
        “Yes that is so and in the Bible Jesus says trust in the …”

  15. David Mac 15
    20 September 2017 at 9:48 am

    I caught Dr Lance on AM this morning. I was surprised to hear him say he will be standing for the Maori Party in 2020. I think it’s an announcement that will assist their vote this election, that joker is a mana fest.

    I can see him having broad appeal. I think he said something with voter appeal right across the political spectrum. Garner implied that NZ Health needs more money, O’Sullivan disagreed. He feels we need to be using the current Health budget more efficiently. Wow! A politician that doesn’t think more money is the solution. He’s not standing until 2020 and I want to hear more of what he has to say now.

    I think the chap has the potential to be quite a force in NZ politics.

    • marty mars 15.1
      20 September 2017 at 9:58 am

      He seems very ambitious…

      • Rosemary McDonald 15.1.1
        20 September 2017 at 11:11 am

        He is ambitious…and, from my observations does not enjoy the following in the Far North that you would expect.

        There have been a couple of incidents where his ego/arrogance has really ripped some undies.

        It’ll be interesting to see how far he goes…

        • marty mars 15.1.1.1
          20 September 2017 at 11:40 am

          Yep I agree. Not convinced personally and we will see. So many Māori women and men doing so much good work – no need to focus on one individual AND it is also worth noting a persons contribution imo

        • greywarshark 15.1.1.2
          20 September 2017 at 12:24 pm

          Rosemary
          About his outspokenness. I was up his way a year ago and stayed with some immigrants who were keen to get into some business and involved in the community. They seemed to feel that there was a torpor up there, a reluctance to change and acceptance of an unsatisfactory status quo.

          What Dr Lance O’Sullivan sees would set his teeth on edge, and no doubt feels more positive stuff needs to be done instead of him being the band aid to the unhealable wound.

          This was interesting and probably relates to the problems he sees and the current fuel problem up there.
          Digging for our roots?

          • Rosemary McDonald 15.1.1.2.1
            20 September 2017 at 1:01 pm

            “They seemed to feel that there was a torpor up there, a reluctance to change and acceptance of an unsatisfactory status quo. ”

            In some small groups within some small communities maybe….but certainly not on a wider scale.

            We are frequent visitors to Kaitaia and points north, and keep returning because on the whole the area retains much of what was good about NZ in times past. There is a real sense of community (has to be because of isolation issues) and a growing group of locals who are asking serious questions regarding the impacts of increasing horticulture on the environment. There is a real engagement from parents trying to support more positive educational outcomes.

            There are various NGOs active in the area…trying to address some of the issues that claim the headlines…but it has frustrated me personally that Whanau Ora (as a one stop shop for assisting families with issues across multiple government departments) has been conspicuous by its absence. We have chatted with many people whose lives could have been transformed had WO been active.

            AND…the Far North has the very best recycling operation, bar none, in the country. Woe betide the person who tries to pop a juice bottle in with the milk bottles or an empty margarine container in with the janitorials. They have been super sorting for years!

            As for the swamp kauri thing….hmm…https://publicaddress.net/envirologue/swamp-monsters-the-looting-of-northlands/

            • greywarshark 15.1.1.2.1.1
              20 September 2017 at 5:21 pm

              So why aren’t whanau ora there? What are the local Maori people doing and I think that they suffer most of the poverty there. The editor of the paper said he had things stolen from his house while he was inside. Then he saw one of the items being worn by somebody and got the police to deal with the up till then clueless case. There is activity going on but it is the wrong sort.

              There is get up and go there, but how much, and can’t they find a way of getting employment and training for the young ones. Perhaps it is a place for a charter school, away from the familiar places and faces over in Kaikohe or a certain distance away. Then they can make changes in their approaches, start learning, have ambitions, take control. There is a huge downward presssure from peer groups in some places. You do more than us, learn more, and what are you? You don’t fit in. That’s not our way.

              • Rosemary McDonald …
                20 September 2017 at 6:04 pm

                “So why aren’t whanau ora there?” Waipareira Trust were briefly in the area…they still might be but not prominently. Not on the ‘get stuck in and sort this whanau out before shit gets worse’ scale. Maybe they are being discrete.

                There is a charter school in Kaitaia…not sure of the success rate…I will inquire. 😉

                “There is a huge downward presssure from peer groups in some places. You do more than us, learn more, and what are you? You don’t fit in. That’s not our way.”

                This. This has literally reduced me to tears in relation to some of those families.

                BUT there are many families who have dug their toes in and risen up…we have met some because of the disability connection. Having a child with challenges can be a powerful motivator for many, especially mums.

  16. greywarshark 16
    20 September 2017 at 9:54 am

    I saw someone had printed a poster –
    THINK RATIONAL
    NOT NATIONAL
    VOTE LABOUR
    OR GREENS

    It would be a good idea if we all printed/wrote one out and left it somewhere noticeable.

    There’s another one apparently.

    Nats are Rats.
    They won’t go till the ship sinks.
    Make them go now!
    Vote Labour, Green, Maori Party, a people’s future.

    • Rosemary McDonald 16.1
      20 September 2017 at 11:16 am

      Doing my best Greywarshark, doing my best.

      Just got off the phone from a friend who was intending to vote National….largely because another friend had told her that “Labour would give all our money to the United Nations because of Helen Clarke”

      This lady is a lady so I didn’t let fly with the string of expletives such a statement deserves.

      I just talked about the various Party Policies on disability issues….

      • greywarshark 16.1.1
        20 September 2017 at 11:57 am

        Rosemary
        You’ve got the power! And just letting it out in little tiny bursts is so controlled and more effective. Doesn’t scare the horses! You are tops, and nothing to do with Gareth Morgan (though I don’t really dislike him. )

        • Rosemary McDonald 16.1.1.1
          20 September 2017 at 12:11 pm

          “… to do with Gareth Morgan (though I don’t really dislike him. )”

          Hah! I threatened our very old cat with Uncle Gareth yesterday as he sunk his fangs into my arm as I tried to remove handicapping knots from his nether regions. Ingrate!

          Some individuals just don’t seem to understand that one may just have their best interests at heart.

          Or otherwise, have anything but their best interests at heart

      • bwaghorn 16.1.2
        20 September 2017 at 12:20 pm

        it’s amazing how thick some people are , keeping in mind they all get to vote ,
        I overheard an old god botherer saying that the greens want to destroy the nz economy so they can help install a one world government.

        • DSpare 16.1.2.1
          20 September 2017 at 2:09 pm

          Just because someone says something, doesn’t necessarily mean they believe it to be true, That god botherer may simply have been opposed to the GP’s ideas about abortion, and been saying whatever it was that they thought would most likely convince whoever they were talking to. Of course, sometimes the shape of a person’s lies reveal more about them than the truth would.

  17. Fireblade 17
    20 September 2017 at 9:56 am

    In the past I’ve voted for Act, NZ First or National.

    Our country has changed under the current National Government. I believe they’re corrupt, full of spin and self interest, focused on protecting big business at the expense of everyone else. John Key started this agenda and Bill English has followed in his footsteps.

    I’ve read read The Standard for the last few years and my eyes have been opened. National must not have a fourth term or NZ future will consist of people who are either obscenely wealthy or dirt poor. Middle NZ will not exist.

    Yesterday I voted two ticks for Labour.

  18. patricia bremner 18
    20 September 2017 at 10:15 am

    It shocked me that only Winston Peters formally offered condolences to Jacinda on the loss of her Grandmother.

    Leadership is cheap and nasty and seemingly mannerless these days.

    Good for you Winston. Old fashioned decency.

    Jacinda’s honesty and charm is a breath of fresh air, and she deserves better than this from the rest of the “leaders”

    • Red Blooded 18.1
      20 September 2017 at 11:24 am

      I’m sorry but I don’t believe that’s true. Jacinda herself told John Campbell that Bill English personally rang her to offer his condolences. There are so many faults with Bill and the Nats without throwing unwarranted shade at them.

      • greywarshark 18.1.1
        20 September 2017 at 12:26 pm

        Anyone can make a mistake red blooded. It’s the type of mistake they make that is important. I don’t see this causes for a major dressing down.

        • Red Blooded 18.1.1.1
          20 September 2017 at 1:36 pm

          It was meant as a statement and not an attempt to be a major dressing down. My apologies to patricia bremner if it was taken that way.

    • Frida 18.2
      20 September 2017 at 1:02 pm

      I’m not normally one to defend Bill English, but Jacinda Adern said on Checkpoint last night that she had been contacted directly by him giving his condolences. Credit where credit is due.

      • lprent 18.2.1
        20 September 2017 at 1:48 pm

        Saw a press release from Winston Peters with his condolences as well.

        Update: Oh I see Patricia wrote that already – was reading comment in reverse date/time order in the backend.

        • alwyn 18.2.1.1
          20 September 2017 at 2:11 pm

          I really think I prefer someone who doesn’t feel the need to come out with a Press Release for something like that.

          • McFlock 18.2.1.1.1
            20 September 2017 at 2:56 pm

            It’s old school professional courtesy. Like thank-you cards after a visit.

            • alwyn 18.2.1.1.1.1
              20 September 2017 at 3:51 pm

              I heartily agree with the sentiment being expressed. Politics shouldn’t come into it at all.
              It was that, if I have read these comments correctly, Winston felt the need to issue a Press Release about it rather than just doing it privately as it appears English did.

              The only appalling taint on this sort of thing I can remember was Rob Muldoon to Norman Kirk when Kirk went into hospital for an operation just before his death. Muldoon supposedly sent him a message along the lines of “Get well soon Norm. A pensioner needs your bed”.
              A horrible man was Muldoon, so the story is probably true.
              It is about 2/3 of the way down this story.
              http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=141378

  19. Ffloyd 19
    20 September 2017 at 10:22 am

    Two ticks for Labour. MY husband as well. Labour with a landslide!

  20. ianmac 20
    20 September 2017 at 10:56 am

    Good news from a poll! Urban and Rural.

    “Findings from Water New Zealand’s survey, released at the industry group’s conference this morning, showed 77 per cent of the 4,500 people it polled online over a month this year agreed there should be a cost when taking water from the environment for agriculture and horticulture.

    Almost three in five people – 59 per cent – believed there should be a cost when taking water from the environment for all users.

    But agreement was much higher, at 89 per cent, when asked whether water bottling companies should be charged for taking water from the environment.”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11924261

  21. joe90 21
    20 September 2017 at 11:01 am

    So, Benny “If you take out Saddam, I guarantee you, it would have enormous, positive reverberations on the region” Netanyahu reckons threatening to totally destroy a nation of 26 million people is bold and courageous.

    In over 30 years in my experience with the UN, I never heard a bolder or more courageous speech.— Benjamin Netanyahu (@netanyahu) September 19, 2017

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/america-first-read-trump-s-full-united-nations-speech-n802676

    • North 21.1
      20 September 2017 at 7:28 pm

      Netanyahu is an apartheid loving fascist. No surprise that of all the western leaders Trump gets his vote.

  22. joe90 22
    20 September 2017 at 11:25 am

    Oh shit, this is bad.

    (earthquake and buildings, careful people)

    Devastating images from Mexico City. pic.twitter.com/RpF7sUq31s— Jorge Guajardo (@jorge_guajardo) September 19, 2017

  23. Adrian 23
    20 September 2017 at 12:16 pm

    Getting them in singles, the old cricket analogy works.
    Congrats to all here who have convinced somebody to move over from the dark side.
    Had a couple of victories too, a 48 year old grape pruner who has never voted or registered did so as a ” favour ” to me , I think it was just to shut me up.
    And an old friend, owner of a few houses including a boarding house, which she does a very good ethical Job of but is daily fielding calls from social services at all hours to house people , said last year ” things have to change “. Switched from a lifetime of Nat voting to TOP, I didn’t disabuse her of the notion, if our side can’t have her vote it’s better that It goes in the bin.
    Fingers crossed, Lets Do This.

  24. Stuart Munro 24
    20 September 2017 at 12:37 pm

    Are we being too nice to the Gnats?

    I hope the incoming government rips the corrupt troughers out of every public office in the country.

  25. Penny Bright 25
    20 September 2017 at 12:57 pm

    YAY! THE #TamakiSCAM STORY HAS (finally) MADE THE NEWS!

    20 September 2017

    LIFTOFF in today’s NZ Herald.

    ‪‪Will Tamaki Regeneration meet its target 7500 builds in 15 years?, via @nzherald http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11923958

  26. mary_a 26
    20 September 2017 at 1:06 pm

    Seems most of us know Oravida is the company involved with poaching swamp kauri in Ruakaka. Hell, they even advertise the fact digitally … Kauri Ruakaka, formerly known as Kauri Oravida!

    So where is msm on this? Why isn’t media investigating the company, as possibly being responsible for the fuel crises disabling NZ at present!

    Come on msm, do your job. Work on behalf of the people, not the corrupt, despicable National government! We deserve some honest answers here!

  27. cleangreen 27
    20 September 2017 at 1:25 pm

    I just heard on Radio NZ news at 1pm that some are questioning how come some staff at the polliing stations are alllowed to take the boxes of votes home with them at night?????

    Did anyone else hear this as it seems doggy to me althouugh some lawyer for the commission said “it is o/k as the bioxes have seals on them!! — reallly?

    Who can you believe in this corrupt little NZ’s grubby crime with a constantly lying PM?

    • alwyn 27.1
      20 September 2017 at 2:15 pm

      What would you prefer they do?
      Seriously would you want them left for a couple of weeks in the local library or suchlike? Wouldn’t they be safer elsewhere, or do you not think any of the people involved in the election can be trusted?

      • tracey 27.1.1
        20 September 2017 at 3:51 pm

        Locked up securely overnight? It is an election afterall. If this was happening in Nigeria you woukd scoff.

  28. Bearded Git 28
    20 September 2017 at 1:38 pm

    674,000 have voted and counting….

    • McFlock 28.1
      20 September 2017 at 3:00 pm

      I bloody went to vote at the university of otago booth today, but I didn’t have time – too many students queuing to vote!

      It seems that the best voting prediction possible is that the % at the start of the night’s coverage will barely change, if half the votes have been counted alread 🙂

      • alwyn 28.1.1
        20 September 2017 at 3:40 pm

        According to a report on Radio New Zealand they can’t start counting the early votes until 9am on Saturday. The count of the early votes is only an indication of the final result on Election Day, not the final result however.
        I’ll bet they keep it very, very quiet until 7pm though.

        According to RNZ
        “Election officials can begin counting ‘early votes’ – the advance votes cast by voters on the printed electoral roll for the electorate they voted in – at 9 am on election day. Their count of these early votes then becomes publicly available very shortly after the polls close.
        If the Electoral Commission’s predictions are accurate, this means up to half of all votes may have been counted and made public at this point. And in the previous two elections, the preference distribution of these early votes quite closely matched the final election night result.”

        However they then have all the Special votes and the distribution of these doesn’t normally follow the standard votes. If, as seems possible, both The Green Party and New Zealand First are near the 5% number they will both be sweating until all the special, including the overseas, votes come in. If my memory is correct the Green Party tend to do better in the overseas votes than those in NZ. I don’t know about NZF

        • Muttonbird 28.1.1.1
          20 September 2017 at 5:31 pm

          According to a report on Radio New Zealand they can’t start counting the early votes until 9am on Saturday.

          That’s a relief. With the integrity of the National Party more and more in question, who knows what they’d get up to if they had advanced warning of the count.

  29. ianmac 29
    20 September 2017 at 2:45 pm

    Sharp earthquake in Marlborough 4 Minutes ago. About 4 second long.

    • mac1 29.1
      20 September 2017 at 2:51 pm

      magnitude 5 east of Seddon.

      I chivvied the electrician who had just gone outside to please walk a little quieter, but he didn’t know why I was saying this. He did say that he missed a step as he walked down the stairs but hadn’t felt the shake.

  30. Once was Tim 30
    20 September 2017 at 4:54 pm

    @Weka and @Tracey
    Have a listen to “The Panel” today after the 4.30 news (if you can stomach Mora and The Hairdo) – the item on the Public Service.
    Some points well made (by Tamihere in particular) – although there are plenty more.

    It is probably one of the biggest issues facing future governments (I think THE biggest) if we are to preserve any semblance of a functioning democracy in future.
    A shitload of departments are bad (MPI, MoBIE, MSD/WINZ, MPI, Education, Health …..)
    Two, for me are standouts (as in bad)

  31. James 31
    20 September 2017 at 4:54 pm

    Gareth Morgan on people voting on the “Jacindamania”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11924483

    “Voters cannot be that think”.

    There are a lot of people thinking the same thing.

    • The decrypter 31.1
      20 September 2017 at 4:58 pm

      You said it james, lots of voters I know are that THINK.

    • McFlock 31.2
      20 September 2017 at 5:21 pm

      If he seriously thinks the post-Little change is just about a smiley face, he’s the thick one.

      I think it was largely about two things:

      an unexpectedly high energy level; and

      points of difference in the leadership that demonstrated Labour wasn’t just talking different to National, but that it is different to National. Competence rather than bullshit, generational difference, gender difference. Not a “cosmetic” change as such ( it wouldn’t work if she didn’t have the energy and assurance), but it shows the country something other than two rich middle aged white guys waffling on and pretending to score points off each other.

  32. eco Maori/kiwi 32
    20 September 2017 at 5:11 pm

    Apologies To MSM I forget that those muppets have painted a shit view about me.

    • james 32.1
      20 September 2017 at 5:23 pm

      The only ‘view’ people have about you eco Maori/kiwi is from the content of your post.

      You could be headlining the news this evening and we would be none the wiser.

  33. james 33
    20 September 2017 at 5:21 pm

    And Winny says no a a water tax for farmers – excellent – even more reason for him to side with National over Labour.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/09/winston-peters-say-he-won-t-support-a-water-tax.html

  34. Muttonbird 34
    20 September 2017 at 5:21 pm

    Industry leaders absolutely kicking the National Party’s light touch on crucial infrastructure.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/339832/infrastructure-an-enormous-gap-in-governance-industry

  35. JC 35
    20 September 2017 at 8:49 pm

    Not Xenophobic But this is Scary!

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/09/18/48616/expert-calls-for-inquiry-into-chinese-threat

    ” Dr Brady said that after watching China’s growing influence for several years, it was time for a special commission to investigate its impact on New Zealand’s democracy.

    … recent revelations that National Party MP Dr Jian Yang did not declare his background in military intelligence when applying for citizenship are extremely concerning.

    ” there was deep concern among her international colleagues at the conference that China is meddling in the affairs of their respective countries, Australia, the US, UK, Canada, EU states and Japan.

    China was using the same tactics in most of those countries, including New Zealand. They included:

    – Gaining influence over Chinese migrants living in other countries (10 million Chinese live outside China).

    – Taking over or integrating the local ethnic Chinese media with the Chinese media controlled by the Communist Party.

    – Encouraging local Chinese who are acceptable to the Chinese government to enter politics in their host countries and if elected getting them to promote China’s interests.

    – Appoint former local MPs with access to political power to high profile roles in Chinese companies or Chinese-funded entities in the host country.”

  36. mosa 36
    20 September 2017 at 9:34 pm

    September 24th 2017 National the largest party backed by NZF and ACT and the Maoris.

    Jacinda will prevail in 2020 in the biggest landslide in recent history after serving her three year apprenticeship.

    That is my prediction and Winston’s last term.

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