Open Mike 25/06/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 25th, 2017 - 180 comments
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180 comments on “Open Mike 25/06/2017”

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  1. adam 1
    25 June 2017 at 7:37 am

    Am I the only one who is feeling more than a little perturb about the deathly quite around where the money is coming from for support workers? Where exactly is the cash going to come from to pay the new wages?

    We have a government currently dedicated to austerity as an economic policy, we have an opposition who say they will manage the austerity economic policy better. Both seem hell bent on ignoring the costs of support work for the elderly and disabled.

    I’m seeing nothing, so I’m going to have a stab in the dark here. That the money is not there, so the people who need the support – will be the ones who suffer. The new wages will be payed, but the hours will be less, and those who are suffering the most will ultimately pay, by getting less (Austrity 101, or making the uber rich happy, by making the poor suffer).

    If we had a left that supported social democracy, and choice in political economy then we could have a debate. As it stands, there will be no debate because the left is dominated in this country by people who are committed to austerity. Then there are those who won’t take any criticism, because there is an election. Here though is a real problem, who pays to alleviate suffering? The uber rich point blankly refuse, their hangers on refuse as well.

    No one want to engage with the needs going forward we have associated with support work, and extended care. And where is the money, if we can spend billions of our tax on oil, why can’t we pay decent wages and look after our aged and disabled? And why can’t we even talk about political economy or where we want our tax dollars spent?

    • BM 1.1
      25 June 2017 at 8:55 am

      Christ, the National government did the complete opposite of austerity.

      You guys really do live in some alternative universe.

      • saveNZ 1.1.1
        25 June 2017 at 10:06 am

        @BM – agreed, Key ran up debt, sold off the assets and spent the money on his mates and staying in power.

        A good time was had by many and it made him popular until his actions came to light, such as the power sell offs would have made more money in dividends already, the state houses are sitting empty and the poor subsidised by tax payers are paying $200 per night for a dodgy hotel with zero signs of any changes and it’s getting worse, the economy is dependant on ponzi scheme immigration scams, the corporations that are taking over Silver Fern Farms and Cadbury are closing down the factories and works and making people redundant. The schools, hospitals and transport networks are overflowing…

        P.S. I think Adam is talking about National’s austerity to low paid workers… non workers… and the numbers are growing in the low wage, zero hour contract, economy being created.

        And yes, in my view in NZ it is like two different societies operating in alternative universes, Planet Key and Planet Earth, and it’s expanding – otherwise known as inequality.

        • Wayne 1.1.1.1
          25 June 2017 at 11:05 am

          Save NZ

          You really do live in an alternative reality. The money was not “spent oh his mates”.

          The increased debt from 2009 to 2013, which amounted to around $50 billion, was to keep the economy going and to deal with the Christchurch earthquakes.

          Through 2009 and 2010 there were large increases in welfare spending due to unemployment increasing to around 8% due to the GFC, and a lot of pump priming to keep businesses afloat and increased infrastructure spend.

          Then in 2010 and 2011 the earthquakes, which cost about $20 billion in direct govt payments.

          In 2010/11 the annual deficit got out to $20 billion (as I recall) due to the combination of the GFC and the earthquakes. I recall thinking we can’t sustain this; we have to get out of this by getting on top of all non essential govt spending. However, there were real increases in health and education spending.

          Getting on top of things took another two years. It also meant no wage increases in the state sector in 2010 and 201, though of course people still went up on annual scales (teachers, nurses, police, defence all have 10 step salary scales).

          I am sure you will mention tax cuts, but the big shift was largely self funding by reducing income tax, but increasing GST, the “tax switch”.

          So in NZ, no real austerity. Fortunately China also meant we got back to positive growth much earlier than the rest of the OECD. But managing govt expenditure is part of that. Look at the contrast with Australia which also has the China market.

          • Poission 1.1.1.1.1
            25 June 2017 at 11:27 am

            The chch eq were from a government expenditure POV close to a zero to small financial gain.

            • Wayne 1.1.1.1.1.1
              25 June 2017 at 12:07 pm

              EQC dos not cover all the roads, bridges, pipes etc plus the red zone land, most of which can now only be used as parks.

              The new govt buildings, such as the justice sector are vastly more than any insurance return.

              The $20 billion cost to govt is on top of insurance payouts, which went mostly to homeowners and commercial property owners.

              Large sums had to be spent to support businesses, emergency housing, alternative govt services, lots of overtime for all sorts of govt paid workers.

              The latest reconstruction estimates are over $40 billion (which covers everything not just the literal cost of new buildings). More than half of which is not covered by insurance.

              Sure $40 billion is a boost to the local economy, but the money has to be found, and most of it did not come from insurance. About $20 billion over 5 years or so directly from taxpayers or govt borrowing.

          • millsy 1.1.1.1.2
            25 June 2017 at 12:40 pm

            New Zealand’s austerity was far more subtle than in the UK, the USA and Europe.

            Anyway, most of our public sector was outsourced or privatised in the 1990’s in Ruth’s first round of austerity.

            For instance, Joyce’s pet ministey, MOBIE is a facade with most of its work outsourced to the private sector. It doesnt even own the buildings that it operates on. Same with MSD and MPI.

            • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1.2.1
              25 June 2017 at 1:35 pm

              It doesnt even own the buildings that it operates on. Same with MSD and MPI.

              That bit really pisses me off. It’s always far, far cheaper for a government to own the buildings they use than paying rent to a capitalist.

              But paying rent to a capitalist increases GDP and profits. It just doesn’t actually improve the nation.

          • RedBaronCV 1.1.1.1.3
            25 June 2017 at 12:42 pm

            Let me remind you of the tax cuts for the high income earners.If the budget was under so much pressure then this should not have been done & the rates should have been put up.
            And if?? there was a gst/income tax switch then you are confirming that you robbed the poor to pay the rich ” someone’s mates”

            But there wasn’t really a Gst /tax switch was there and each of those measures cost about $2 billion a year so $4 billion by 9 years=$36 billion and all of that went to the rich. There would have been a lot of alternative mileage out of that money.

            And the size of the welfare bill is a consequence of continuing with strong immigration so we have a bloated workforce – more than we have jobs for

            As to China – the Nacts took the best terms of trade we had had in many a long year and made sure none of it trickled down.

    • garibaldi 1.2
      25 June 2017 at 9:09 am

      Good questions adam.
      I fear the problem will escalate rapidly as the boomers age and the following generation voters will not tolerate “excessive” expenditure on the boomers because it is the boomers who have ruined things for them, and there will be overwhelming numbers of aged boomers demanding support. In short we will reap what we have sown.

      • Foreign waka 1.2.1
        25 June 2017 at 2:50 pm

        garibaldi, the boomers as you call them have paid 14% interest rates on their mortgage for their roof over their head. Many have still not paid off their house that does not resemble any of those mansions you see advertised on TV.
        They were the first to get hammered with increased education fees and had to go through more than one recession. Not only that, but any savings that were there were squandered away with the swindles of high flyers and the new neo lib policies (i.e. BNZ). There were no breaks for their expenditure when the mother of all budgets hit in the early 80’s. It took most likely more than a good part of 15 years for most to recover from the financial juggernaut. These years are also lost in means of career and getting improvement of income to make up for the losses. We are talking about average people and not magazine cutouts.
        Your comments are being devoid of any understanding what the average person out there has to be content with but keeps going without bleating and complaining to get some handout or wealth transfer based on “I am entitled”.
        And whilst I understand that things have not improved a hell of a lot as kiwis have voted for a right wing government keeping on with these neo lib policies, it is still true today as it was 100 years ago. Get working, saving and build something for the future. Put a bit aside when ever possible for the so called rainy day. You might not get rich, but you have a chance to build a live like everybody else.
        Just don’t pick on the oldies who are in their twilight years and just want to see their life out in reasonable comfort without having to be euthanized off to get the hands on a few dollars.

        • In Vino 1.2.1.1
          25 June 2017 at 4:37 pm

          As I read his last sentence, I suspect that Garibaldi himself is an oldie boomer, Foreign Waka.

          • Foreign waka 1.2.1.1.1
            25 June 2017 at 6:37 pm

            Vino, I am not so sure and if he is, than I find his comments offensive to anyone who has worked 40-50 years and then get told that they had it too good to deserve any decent living in their twilight years.
            There is already enough elder abuse out there without getting this kind of encouragement. If anything will increase, than that kind of abuse will.
            What a society – where the weakest are treated like that.

            • In Vino 1.2.1.1.1.1
              25 June 2017 at 7:21 pm

              Confession – I was born in 1946, so I am among the first boomers. I believe our generation lost the plot, but were especially tricked by the election when Lange first got in. That is the only time I ever voted for antisocial right-wing policies, but like so many others, I had no idea at the time that bloody Roger and friends were going to screw us all over, and that Lange, for all his wit, would have little idea of what was happening until too late. I thought I was voting left against right-wing Muldoon. (He was right-wing at the time, but nobody explained to us how Roger etc were going to shift all those goalposts and slant the field.)

              Like you, I feel it is very unfair to blame boomers, but the fact is that even after Rogernomics, the majority of boomers (and the following generation) were stupid enough to vote for governments that would carry on those policies, not reverse them. Unfair as it is, we may well reap what we few tried to vote against sowing.

              • garibaldi …
                25 June 2017 at 8:00 pm

                Thank you In Vino, you have covered it accurately.
                Foreign waka…. We would have very good cover in our retirement if it hadn’t been for Muldoon and his dancing Cossacks.
                I’m not picking on the oldies, I am one and I am pointing out the folly of what we, as a generation, have knowingly done.

              • Foreign waka …
                25 June 2017 at 8:13 pm

                I understand your sentiment In Vino, especially if I look at the selfish generation that has been raised as a result – pendulum swinging etc.
                I do however recognize what is right and what is wrong and having children in poverty and elderly joining is so wrong on so many levels. To point at times past to justify an other horrid chapter is hopefully not what anyone likes to see.
                As to the voting pattern, I belief that those who have vested interests will and do vote, but the large portion of younger people think that by not voting they will “show” their discontent. This logic is either just laziness to get involved really or stupidity, lets just name it for what it is. And yes, it is the baby boomers who raised these lazy thinkers.
                This ought not to be a precursor to have older people treated like dirt. We have to reiterate the dignity of humanity, it is a duty not a choice. Otherwise we are going backwards, with disturbed minds dishing out cruelty.

                • In Vino …
                  25 June 2017 at 8:29 pm

                  Hi Foreign Waka

                  Horribly True? Let’s hope not. You are right in saying that young people need to engage and vote. Let us pray…

    • patricia bremner 1.3
      25 June 2017 at 9:40 am

      Adam, you are right to wonder. I know that hours have been cut for workers who have a range of hours in their contracts. So yes, right rate, less hours.
      BM There were many subtle and unsubtle cuts and extra taxes to pay for those tax cuts. Austerity has led to homelessness suicides and an ever growing divide.

    • Jenny Kirk 1.4
      25 June 2017 at 10:02 am

      Perhaps it would help a bit to read this, Adam. Grant Robertson’s speech to business people down south.

      http://www.labour.org.nz/grant_robertson_speech_to_otago_southland_employers_assn

    • Bill 1.5
      25 June 2017 at 3:37 pm

      Well, given that ‘everyone’ is operating under the umbrella of liberalism, we can confidently say that if money is made available for support-workers on a no-strings basis (unlikely), then money is going to come away from somewhere else.

      Same as, if money is going to be made available for children in poverty, then that money is going to be taken away from somewhere or some-one else too.

      These is room for reprioritising. But not much.

      I look at a liberal economy a bit like how I’d look at a balloon. Squeeze *here* and all that happens is that a bulge pops up *there*. It would be a joke if it didn’t have real world and utterly predictable consequences.

      Maybe under liberalism, the immediate pressure can be taken off of support workers and others. And in return, roads deteriorate or libraries are shut down – or whatever other slicing and dicing a “creative” liberal government can think up, by way of removing the day to day signs of a society being bled and hammered for the sake of preserving the integrity of an economic and political theory predicated on opportunity and ephemeral individual liberty and benign or impartial market rules and mechanisms.

      Liberal capitalism. Fucking over workers since 18 whatever.

      But hey! Big thumbs up. We’re free from the shackles of collective identity! Did someone mention class? Silly person. We are free now. And we are working on that equal opportunity thing now. Give it time. Embrace it. Be thankful for what the future will most surely hold. And yes, we’ve always approached the future on our knees.

  2. marty mars 2
    25 June 2017 at 7:55 am

    A very interesting article.

    This is the risk we run, as Māori, when we dig into Australian soil to create places or points of belonging, no matter how well we think we have consulted with indigenous peoples. That soil is not ours and will never be ours.

    That doesn’t mean to say we can’t be Māori on that soil. How can we not be? We should guard and protect and develop our cultural expressions — but why not have cultural clubs and centres?

    We should protect our language, our rituals, our mourning and our celebrating, even in little ways as our whānau did for our Dad in 2012 when we laid him to rest in Australia.

    And there he lies, ever, ever, the manuhiri.

    But we must be wary of transplanting our notions of being tangata whenua to the whenua of others, and risk wreaking yet another layer of colonisation upon those home peoples.

    We must never forget who we are. And we must never forget who we are not.

    https://e-tangata.co.nz/news/and-there-he-lies-ever-ever-the-manuhiri

    • Tautoko Mangō Mata 2.1
      25 June 2017 at 8:13 am

      Thank you for posting this article. It provides a perspective that I had not previously considered and deserves to be widely read.

      • marty mars 2.1.1
        25 June 2017 at 8:15 am

        Yes I really liked the article and I too found it came from a great angle. I really liked this

        “But we must be wary of transplanting our notions of being tangata whenua to the whenua of others, and risk wreaking yet another layer of colonisation upon those home peoples.”

  3. Wayne 3
    25 June 2017 at 7:57 am

    Adam,
    No secret at all. It is all provided for in the 2017 budget. That is why no-one suggests, even on the left, that it is all smoke and mirrors.
    One good thing about the NZ government finances is that everyone in parliament irrespective of party who actually looks at the government books trusts the figures. The benefit of the Fiscal Responsibility Act 1993.
    It also means alternative budgets of the opposition have to be designed on the basis of the Treasury figures.

    • adam 3.1
      25 June 2017 at 8:26 am

      I’m not suggesting smoke and mirrors, I’m suggesting that austerity is a policy that does not work. And that the left should stop supporting it.

      As for the budget figures, if they like all the ones in retaliation to disabled like the last few years, then I will see them as the mythology that they are.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 3.2
      25 June 2017 at 8:43 am

      …everyone in parliament irrespective of party who actually looks at the government books trusts the figures.

      Apart from Nick Smith when he’s ACC Minister in 2009. Or when the National Party lies about housing affordability. Or how deferred maintenance is a surplus.

      Absolute trustiness.

    • Stuart Munro 3.3
      25 June 2017 at 10:24 am

      Right – like the lie that counts one hour a week as employment.

      And the failure to collect data on poverty.

      That’s smoke.

      • Wayne 3.3.1
        25 June 2017 at 11:06 am

        Stuart Munro,
        80% of all new jobs are full-time.

        • Stuart Munro 3.3.1.1
          25 June 2017 at 2:11 pm

          Wayne – why are we even having to discuss it? Why not use fulltime job equivalents the way farmers use stock units?

          Fact is the current government’s performance has been risible – only the combination of faked or uncollected stats and a sabotaged media has saved them from being stoned in the streets. And the media are becoming wise to the lies.

        • Sacha 3.3.1.2
          25 June 2017 at 11:15 pm

          Wasn’t that stat about 80% of *all* jobs including recent ones? Got any links for just the past few years?

  4. mary_a 4
    25 June 2017 at 8:07 am

    Heather du Plessis Allen comes out giving some hard stick to English and the Natz over the Barclay issue! The Natz ego massaging media is beginning to wake up to the ugly truth of what Natz is all about, something which HDPA alludes to in her piece.

    However, why isn’t Key also getting some stick at the same time? After all he was PM at the time of the whole dirty business and like English covered up what Barclay did, so he also deserves equal condemnation as well.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11881114

    • Ed 4.1
      25 June 2017 at 8:15 am

      Don’t wish to disillusion you, but these Tory propagandists will return to type closer to the election. They know which way their bread is buttered.
      The left must not rely on the media.

    • tc 4.2
      25 June 2017 at 9:02 am

      Heather and hubby are shills for nact so this is the ‘balance’ piece they claim a moral high ground with when their obvious bias and scant regard for intellectual rigour is pointed out.

      Dogma all the way with Nats media poodles.

      • Tamati Tautuhi 4.2.1
        25 June 2017 at 9:41 am

        Just leading Labour and the Left with a little teaser to think the media and MSM are not really that bad, just wait for Dirty Politics 3 to get under way, if its anything like the USA & UK Elections we could have a rip snorter of an Election Build Up.

        The media & MSM will be trying to paint NZF in a bad light as they realise Winston & NZF are the key to this Election and it is not what their owners the Multinational Corporates and the International Bankers desire ?

  5. Penny Bright 5
    25 June 2017 at 8:26 am

    I’ve just tweeted this to Radio NZ and Wallace Chapman – who are interviewing the, in my considered opinion, PHONY Suzie Dawson (new ‘Leader’ of the Internet Party, this morning Sunday 25 June 2017:

    ____________________________

    Where’s your due diligence on Suzie Dawson Radio NZ?‬

    ‪What is her proven track as a NZ ‘activist’?‬

    ‪Seen this?‬

    ‪http://www.indymedia.org.nz/articles/715‬

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-privatisation / anti-corruption campaigner’.

    NZ political activist since 1972.

    2017 Independent candidate for Tamaki.

    Exposing the $1.6 billion Tamaki ‘Regeneration’ – GENTRIFICATION $CAM.

  6. Sanctuary 6
    25 June 2017 at 8:57 am

    I am so jealous. Oh if we were to have a Labour leader who was welcomed by the young like this, and who would not be afraid to quote Shelley to them from the pyramid stage:

    “Rise like Lions after slumber
    In unvanquishable number-
    Shake your chains to earth like
    dew
    Which in sleep had fallen on you
    Ye are many-they are few.”

  7. Penny Bright 7
    25 June 2017 at 8:57 am

    Here’s the EVIDENCE – which proves why, in my considered opinion, Suzie Dawson is ABSOLUTELY not to be trusted.

    Suzie Dawson (Suzette Maree Dawson) is now the new ‘Leader’ of the Internet Party.

    BEWARE!

    This is what one of Suzette Maree Dawson’s key supporters Ben Cooney said about me on a live-streamed video of the 8 December 2012 anti-TPPA protest in Auckland – which was posted on Suzie Dawson’s PRIVATE website – Occupy Savvy.

    “Here’s Penny Bright – SIS informant”

    This is why, in my opinion, decent people and genuine political activists should have NOTHING to do with either Suzie Dawson or Ben Cooney.

    Penny Bright.

    ‘Anti-privatisation / anti-corruption campaigner’.

    NZ political activist since 1972.

    2017 Independent candidate for Tamaki.

    Exposing the $1.6 billion Tamaki ‘Regeneration’ – GENTRIFICATION $CAM.

    #ThinkForYourself

  8. Cinny 8
    25 June 2017 at 9:12 am

    Wowzers… the OUTGOING PM is digging himself an even deeper hole on Q+A atm, well worth a watch, good journalism by Corrin, live link stream here, will post interview when it comes up later.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/live-stream-q-a-q15157

    • Ed 9.1
      25 June 2017 at 10:55 am

      And English shows a complete lacks of transparency and honesty throughout the interview.
      Watched this, then the Corbyn speech.
      The difference is that Jeremy Corbyn has real integrity and a vision for all of us.
      English meanwhile pimps for the elite.

    • Cinny 9.2
      25 June 2017 at 11:08 am

      Cheers for that Craig.

    • marty mars 9.3
      25 June 2017 at 11:24 am

      Wow still lying there bill. You said what was on your mind – bullshit. You lied and have continued to lie. Now your fucked cos we all know you lied and you know we know but you can’t change your story because then it is solidified. Lying bastards like you disgrace yourself and your God beliefs.

      Bet key is smirking about all this.

  10. Anne 10
    25 June 2017 at 10:58 am

    I’m repeating this here as it is more appropriate than the “Racist attack on a marae” post:

    Q&A have just done a hatchet job on Labour. A very good interview with Andrew Little, the content of which was totally ignored by the panel ( Josie Pagani , John Tamihere and Michelle Boag), who proceeded to repeat all the crap of the past few days. And this gem from Josie Pagani:

    Labour are hypocrites because they have been accusing foreign students of being the cause of the housing crisis and now they’re bringing them here to work for them.

    I kid you not. She said this.

    I might add they ignored the content of the marae chairman’s interview too. It was a concerted effort to attack Andrew Little and Labour. Tamihere never stood up for his own people either although his muttering was so bad it was hard to hear what he was saying.

    • Ed 10.1
      25 June 2017 at 11:00 am

      Josie Pagani.
      Need I say more?

      • Wayne 10.1.1
        25 June 2017 at 11:14 am

        Better still, Josie said;

        “Using foreign students to campaign against foreign students.”

        A real zinger that cuts to quick of the issue.

        So Anne, your spinning won’t help. Labour was caught out fair and square. I personally find it unbelievable that Labour could have ever thought it a good idea to bring in 90 overseas students to be the ground workers (90 students working 40 hours a week is a hell a lot of campaign work). And John Tamihere also pointed out the sense of unease about bringing in foreign students to do what a party should be able to do using enthusiastic local people.

        After all the rest of us rely on volunteers in the weekend, typically around 20 or so on Saturdays

        • Ed 10.1.1.1
          25 June 2017 at 11:18 am

          Are you happy with our ranking of 34 mount of 41 for child wellbeing?
          Is your conscience clear about your contribution to this?

        • marty mars 10.1.1.2
          25 June 2017 at 11:28 am

          What about lying bill english Wayne. You happy with his lies? You comfortable with that level of integrity?

        • lprent 10.1.1.3
          25 June 2017 at 11:30 am

          Wayne. Please don’t be a spinner.

          Sure 20 per electorate that would be about right. We used to routinely get that on week nights for doing isthmus phone calling – and I suspect that they still do.

          So how many electorates in Auckland where these volunteers were doing canvassing in? Divide 90 by that. How many in the country on phone dial? Divide 90 by that.

          The National party usually pays most of its canvassers at minimal wages (I hear usually below minimum wage), either using students or the Farrar push polling system. Because that is the only way that they can get canvassing work done – I can’t remember the last time I saw any canvassing volunteers in Auckland. Certainly the paid canvassers never report any.

          Frankly your example is just hypocritical. Admit it, the main reason that the National party stalwarts are upset about this (apart from the Maori thing) is that these are overseas volunteers rather than paid minions. Something that has become so rare in the National party that they keep looking at it as being a revolutionary activity.

          • Wayne 10.1.1.3.1
            25 June 2017 at 11:49 am

            My experience, over a twenty year period in North Shore (not that long ago) is that all local electioneering is done by volunteers, including phoning.

            In the election campaign we usually did Saturday canvasing (the 20 was in North Shore alone, not elsewhere in Auckland), a stint at the Takapuna market on Sunday, and phoning on a week night usually with Young Nats. No-one was paid anything, it was all volunteer.

            I cannot imagine it has changed in any material way in the last five years, except for digital platforms.

            National has a much larger membership base than any other party (in recent years as many as 35,000) so getting volunteers is not that hard. The Young Nats have really grown in the last few years, and are always keen to help. They do so voluntarily. Both at the local level and the national level.

            They, like all National activists are motivated by the ideals of choice and personal freedom both socially and economically, and therefore getting National in, and keeping Labour out!

            So I don’t believe you about National electorates using paid canvassers.

            As for David Farrar, he has his own polling firm, and I guess does polling for all sorts of organisations, not just National. He therefore has to pay his workers, since he is running a business.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 10.1.1.3.1.1
              25 June 2017 at 12:41 pm

              a much larger membership base

              Pretending that raffle tickets are membership applications isn’t it?

              As for personal freedom, how much personal freedom do homeless people have? If your members are motivated by that then why do your policies destroy so many lives?

              The obvious conclusion is that your members can’t tell when they’re being lied to.

              • Wayne …
                25 June 2017 at 12:53 pm

                OAB
                Unlike you National deals in reality. That is the members are actually signed up members, who complete an actual membership form. Maybe that is not the case with the political parties you are most familiar with.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  25 June 2017 at 12:59 pm

                  You have the names and addresses of 35k people who don’t know when they’re being lied to? Nah, surely some of them are deceitful and corrupt too: when the lies are exposed, like with Bill English’s lies, for example, they deny and blame someone else.

                  Still, that’s the company you keep.

                  [There’s a moderation note for your attention over here] – Bill

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  25 June 2017 at 1:39 pm

                  National has never dealt in reality. They’re always proclaiming delusion as their driving force.

                  That’s why they oppose saving the environment.
                  That’s why they’re for shifting ever more of the countries wealth to the rich while saying that it will make everyone better off.
                  That’s why they ignore science to ram through their policies.

                  They do all that they can to make a few people rich at everyone else’s expense and then get surprised when their polices inevitably fail.

              • greywarshark …
                25 June 2017 at 1:28 pm

                The obvious conclusion is that National Party members want to be presented with lies appearing ingenuous but actually unscrupulous and substantially believable, that they can adopt and embrace.

                This is my position in a longer and more detailed version of yours OAB.

            • Anne 10.1.1.3.1.2
              25 June 2017 at 7:39 pm

              In the election campaign we usually did Saturday canvasing (the 20 was in North Shore alone, not elsewhere in Auckland),

              Oh you mean those weedy looking kids with ultra short backs and sides… expensive blue and white striped blazers… and matching striped panama hats (must have cost the Nats a pretty penny) who used to lounge around the Takapuna street bars talking loudly and showing off? 😀

        • Ed 10.1.1.4
          25 June 2017 at 11:37 am

          ‘At some point people are going to admit this 2 month old story about a Labour intern slave scandal was just a distraction from Bill & Todd.’

          https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/06/24/at-some-point-people-are-going-to-admit-this-2month-old-story-about-a-labour-intern-slave-scandal-was-just-a-distraction-from-bill-todd/

          • Red 10.1.1.4.1
            25 June 2017 at 3:49 pm

            No was rebranding of labour to slavelabour , Catchy, will stick a lot longer than Barclay gate

            • Ed 10.1.1.4.1.1
              25 June 2017 at 3:58 pm

              Troll

            • Psycho Milt 10.1.1.4.1.2
              25 June 2017 at 7:37 pm

              He’s just assisting with the “repeat a lie often enough” thing. If Wayne above is correct, he may even be getting paid for it (in fact, I hope so – who would embarrass themselves like that for free?).

        • Craig H 10.1.1.5
          25 June 2017 at 11:42 am

          Calling the volunteers foreign students is disingenuous – most people understand foreign students to be people on student visas studying in NZ. The volunteers are domestic students in their home countries, volunteering abroad, and attempting to pretend they are in any way related is poppycock.

        • Anne 10.1.1.6
          25 June 2017 at 6:52 pm

          Ho… listen to you Wayne. You come here regularly and indulge in pure spin and misrepresentation.

          Labour was not “caught fair and square”. IT WAS NOT A LABOUR RUN PROGRAMME. It was run by an independent organisation who did not do their homework properly. Even though the participants were genuinely trying to assist Labour (oh, what a shocking sin) they should not have used Labour’s name during the recruitment process. You are are being traditionally selective in your responses and, in the process, I call you out as a cheat. But then we know Nats are especially prone to such behaviour.

          I congratulate Labour for picking up the tabs and running with the programme for the sake of the fresh young idealists who are trying to make a difference in this seriously corrupt world. In a bygone era I was one of them, so I understand their enthusiasm and applaud them for it.

          Re- Josie Pagani. There were no quote marks around my claim concerning her comment. Unlike you [apparently] I don’t always have the time to check up what exactly was said so I paraphrased. Her level of expertise as a commentator leaves a huge amount to be desired, and it disappoints me that the MSM use her as a so-called left commentator when every intelligent, informed individual knows she is nothing of the sort.

          Now back to the real story of criminal conduct and corrupt cover-ups by the most senior members of the National Party and their unprincipled junior lackeys.

    • Ethica 10.2
      25 June 2017 at 12:49 pm

      Yes it was disappointing that the panel today consisted of three right wingers. No balance.

  11. Draco T Bastard 11
    25 June 2017 at 11:03 am

    The Rise of Jeremy Corbyn and the Death Throes of Neoliberalism

    A new economic consensus is quickly replacing the neoliberal one to which Blair and Clinton, as well as Thatcher and Reagan, subscribed; politicians are scrambling to articulate it, often blatantly breaking with their own history. Certainly, May’s frantic left-wing posturing against inequality and social division confirmed that the Anglo-American revolution of the 1980s — built around a strong prejudice against government and for free markets — is over. At least in Britain. May, the conservative daughter of a country vicar, will probably be best remembered for advancing, inadvertently, a counterrevolution of the left.

    Take that as you will.

  12. Morrissey 12
    25 June 2017 at 11:13 am

    How come we get Hosking and Garner and Mulligan
    five days a week on television, but never see this guy?….

  13. lprent 13
    25 June 2017 at 11:35 am

    Locked out the googlebots at the firewall and the site has calmed down a lot. It explains a lot about the unexpected site dropouts in the past couple of weeks.

    They were repeatably from several servers re-requesting the same bad URL over and over again.

    The googlebots had been previously exempted from the usual crawler rules because they were so well behaved. And they were running less than the denial of service rules.

    Complained to google.

    • greywarshark 13.1
      25 June 2017 at 4:34 pm

      Thanks for that unintelligible explanation lprent. (Just joking. Some learn a lot and some a little with every communication from you.) Thanks.

      • lprent 13.1.1
        29 June 2017 at 9:37 am

        🙂 Yeah it is a problem with computing. Damn near every explanation sounds like a excursion into a long fantasy land story arc. Which in many respects is exactly what it is. In particular the whole net is just an extended story of shared perceptions about how it should operate.

  14. Tautoko Mangō Mata 14
    25 June 2017 at 1:26 pm

    Our hospitals are struggling to cope with the numbers of patients and the lack of money. They are also struggling with a Minister of Health who seems to show little interest in cost-effective preventative health measures, like taxing sweetened beverages.
    The FIZZ Symposium which will be held tomorrow at Auckland Hospital will have the latest information on this issue of sugar and health.

    This government is good at ignoring evidence-based information, while it is very susceptible to lobbying by the NZ Initiative, The NZ Food and Grocery Council and the Tax Payers’ Union. I find the Tax Payers’ Union strong opposition to a sugar tax rather at odds with their website slogan: “Championing Value For Money From Every Tax Dollar”

    If reducing sugar intake by taxing sugar leads to a reduction in health issues, then surely this will make the tax payers’ health dollar go further.

    • Tautoko Mangō Mata 14.1
      25 June 2017 at 3:25 pm

      The aims of the Taxpayers’ Union are:
      To reduce wasteful spending by central and local government;
      To increase transparency and accountability of government spending;
      To increase institutional checks on government spending;
      To enable New Zealanders to easily scrutinise government spending;
      To lower the tax burden on New Zealanders; and
      To promote evidence based public policy.

      http://www.taxpayers.org.nz/what_we_stand_for

      I look forward to the Taxpayers’ Union supporting the evidence-based policy which could arise from the FIZZ symposium.
      https://www.iticket.co.nz/events/2017/jun/taxing-sugary-drinks

      However, it was pleasing to see that the Taxpayers’ Union has questioned the following:

      The Taxpayers’ Union is calling on the Auditor General’s office to investigate today’s revelations regarding the use of former Prime Minister John Key’s taxpayer funded ‘leaders budget’ to, allegedly, cover-up allegations of wrongdoing by National Party backbench MP, Todd Barclay.
      Jordan Williams, the Union’s Executive Director, said, “We need to know whether Parliamentary Service did acknowledge that there was an illegal recording made by an MP. If so, why didn’t the agency refer it straight to the Police?”

      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1706/S00271/thats-taxpayer-money-not-your-hush-money.htm

      • ianmac 14.1.1
        25 June 2017 at 4:07 pm

        I reckon that they are safe TMM, requesting that as there can be no response to it. But it leaves Taxpayers Union looking good so that they can carry out their real purpose to do the dirty on the Left.

      • Tautoko Mangō Mata 14.1.2
        25 June 2017 at 4:16 pm

        UGH!!!!!
        I reread the disgusting Carrick Graham written “Whaleoil “slag-off of Tony Falkenstein who was a speaker at the previous FIZZ symposium. This type of hatchet job (Falkenstein being being called a two-bit-hooker with absolutely no evidence whatsoever) was exposed by Nicky Hager in his Dirty Politics Book, (p 85).
        These personal attacks of people working for the public good need to be exposed. There should be no intimidation of those who wish to attend the symposium either.

      • greywarshark 14.1.3
        25 June 2017 at 4:45 pm

        This not doing anything about sugar laden drinks fits well within the Gnats do-nothing policy (unless there is money in it for them and their patrons.) They are paid to provide a PR cover of interested, concerned appearance.

        Have a look at the lovely Gladys Knight as she advises –
        Do Nothing Till you Hear from Me. (I think Gnats are looking for a way to use this as their theme at this election, and not pay anything till they hear from the lawyers.)

  15. ianmac 15
    25 June 2017 at 1:37 pm

    The only credit that I saw for Bill English over the interviews with Paddy and with Corin, was that Bill did answer the questions. A past PM Key would have skidded, slipped and digressed and was impossible to interview. Bill still ended up in the pooh but he did answer the questions. (Wish Corin would let him speak though!)

  16. Draco T Bastard 16
    25 June 2017 at 1:42 pm

    T r u m p ’ s L i e s

    Many Americans have become accustomed to President Trump’s lies. But as regular as they have become, the country should not allow itself to become numb to them. So we have catalogued nearly every outright lie he has told publicly since taking the oath of office.

    Just think of what would have happened if the MSM in this country had done the same for Key’s lies.

    • greywarshark 17.1
      25 June 2017 at 4:30 pm

      Tax cuts for NZ. The modern economic equivalent of the old medical profession treatment of bleeding the patient to cure them. Poor kiwi lies wan yet still more of the same. When we die the excuse will be ‘It was God’s will’.

      This is what we have GST for folks. If they get it up to 20% Roger Douglas’ mob will have got their flat tax.

  18. Cinny 18
    25 June 2017 at 2:53 pm

    Received national party advertising propaganda today.

    Membership/donation form with an insert about the outgoing PM

    Oh hell no don’t be asking me for money or to join your party.. was like wtf… found that tasteless boarding on offensive.

    The insert was titled, “We’re working for NZ”, picture of the outgoing PM against a farming background. The flyer was all about him, there was no ‘we’re’ in either of the two images… no I take that back, I see sheep, about six of them. Nada about the local candidate (tbh that really surprised me), just Bill and his six sheep working for NZ.

    I feel a sheep song coming on ….. just for the outgoing PM and his six sheep who are working for NZ 😀 Maestro… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG6JFrWjGTE

    • Red 18.1
      25 June 2017 at 3:36 pm

      25pc cinny , 25pc I say again, lower than Cunner same time in 2014

      • Ed 18.1.1
        25 June 2017 at 4:00 pm

        Do you care about the fact we are 34th out of 41 OECD countries for child well-being?

        • Red 18.1.1.1
          25 June 2017 at 5:54 pm

          That’s a silly subjective stat ed, 25pc is simply fact, government must be doing something right

      • Cinny 18.1.2
        25 June 2017 at 4:14 pm

        Baaaaaaa baaaaaa haaahaaa what national getting 25%? After all my post was all about national, gosh Red, if you say so, I mean I’m not a national supporter, but I don’t think I would have guessed that low. But hey this Barclay thing is continually ongoing, so you may be correct.

        Will check in with you on the eve of the 23rd, to let you know how close your guess was at national only getting 25%

        • Red 18.1.2.1
          25 June 2017 at 5:56 pm

          Ok, Barclay gate, employment spat will disappear, slavelabour Has an enduring quality about it

          • Cinny 18.1.2.1.1
            25 June 2017 at 6:04 pm

            Dude it’s the lying and lack of action by the outgoing government that has been and is enduring. Standby the news is on, am sure we will hear more about Barclay any moment now.

            • Red 18.1.2.1.1.1
              25 June 2017 at 6:32 pm

              No one cares, beltway rubbish, news leading with sailing and rugger here a wager if labour win Powerade next election I will self impose a 10 week exile from commenting here, if national led government you do the same, let’s test your convictions You game ?😀

              • Red …
                25 June 2017 at 6:36 pm

                Correction Powerade should read power before spell and grammar zealots on this site hunt me down, site for some reason won’t let me edit and predictive text is not my friend

              • Cinny …
                25 June 2017 at 7:09 pm

                Hmmm Red I’m all about numbers, I would have gone for 11 or 9 but not 10 weeks. So instead let’s do it from Sabbat to Sabbat

                From the midnight the day after spring equinox (23rd September), result should be in by then, until Beltane in the Southern Hemisphere, known in the North as Samhain, also known on a commercial level as Halloween

                From midnight on the day after Spring Equinox until the final minute of Sabbat on the last day of October, if National wins I won’t comment on TS.

                For you Red, when national loses, no commenting from the first minute of the 24th Sept until the last minute of 31st October.

                Deal?

          • Robert Guyton 18.1.2.1.2
            25 June 2017 at 6:32 pm

            Your desperation has an endearing quality about it.

          • weka 18.1.2.1.3
            25 June 2017 at 6:33 pm

            Hasn’t the intern thing already dropped of the media’s targeting?

            On the Barclay/English affair Newsroom just published another piece with new information. And BE also released some new fodder for the MSM and social media. I expect tomorrow’s news will be full of that.

            • Red 18.1.2.1.3.1
              25 June 2017 at 6:39 pm

              For political junkies may be for the average voter slavelabour will hang around a lot longer on the campaign trail and in voters subconscious

              • marty mars …
                25 June 2017 at 6:46 pm

                Nah Bill confirming his lies even after those interviews today. I think more to come – we got all next week for the drip drip drip. Gnats are going to use up a few dead cats on this one. Maybe a sex scandal will get it out of the news but I suspect not lol not the way bills going…

                • weka …
                  25 June 2017 at 6:52 pm

                  We still don’t know why National backed Barclay for so long, including at the last selection process 😉

                  Plus there’s the police investigation, and the Clutha-Southland selection investigation process.

              • weka …
                25 June 2017 at 6:51 pm

                Mate, it’s being hammered in the media, and the PM just pointed out that he’s been lying again.

                • David Mac …
                  25 June 2017 at 7:22 pm

                  60 marae slaves have turned down offers to be relocated. Must be Stockholm Syndrome.

                  The Todd thing stinks bad, the Nats turned to their arsenal and the biggest ordinate they could spin up and hand to Hootie and The Blowfish is this stupid slaves in slums claptrap.

                  If that’s the best their armory has to offer they have much bigger problems than axe in hand Bill standing next to the fallen Cherry tree.

                • Red …
                  26 June 2017 at 8:49 am

                  But know one cares, it won’t move the polls, slave labour will

                  • Psycho Milt …
                    26 June 2017 at 9:21 am

                    Because anonymous internet guy says so? Oh no, we’re fucked!

                    Comments are only worth the arguments contained in them (whether explicit or implicit). Unsupported assertions have a total value of 0, and repeating unsupported assertions multiplies 0 to get a cumulative value of, er let’s see… oh, yes: 0. Whenever you’re ready, feel free to raise yourself above being a no-net-worth commenter.

    • Graeme 18.2
      25 June 2017 at 3:38 pm

      Oh dear, a campaign all about Bill English, what could go wrong….

      I think I saw that picture before, 2002 wan’t it?

    • greywarshark 18.3
      25 June 2017 at 9:13 pm

      Cinny
      I had to stop after 3.5 minutes. What a long shaggy sheep song, very good, and well understoood. And using some sharpened No.8 fencing wire for the needle on the vinyl – that’s creative.

  19. Tamati Tautuhi 19
    25 June 2017 at 3:27 pm

    National promoting further tax cuts and increased wages at the National Party Convention, relief at last for the lower socio-economic groups here in NZ ?

  20. marty mars 20
    25 June 2017 at 5:57 pm

    So Barclay offered to play the tape to english – spose that confirms one lie.

    Too many bill you’re not going to make it…

    • Psycho Milt 20.1
      25 June 2017 at 6:27 pm

      Bill must have been an awesome dad. “Yes, the baby did just spend some time with a very intent expression on his face and now the room smells of shit, but the fact of a full nappy hasn’t been established – so I’m off down the pub.”

  21. David Mac 21
    25 June 2017 at 7:40 pm

    I think Bill is probably a fantastic Dad, he’s a good bloke. Good blokes are crappy liars. His words and body language/tone have been juxtaposed.

    That’s ok, we all lie. Now back to what matters. How can we get more of us saying ‘Geeez, I’m loving life.’

    • BM 21.1
      25 June 2017 at 7:43 pm

      None of this is going to effect Bill English in the slightest.

      • Ed 21.1.1
        25 June 2017 at 7:45 pm

        Of course..

        • BM 21.1.1.1
          25 June 2017 at 7:54 pm

          Did it have any effect on John Key?

          No, no it didn’t.

          I’ll be honest I’ve never seen such a group of slow learners as the people I see here on the standard, it’s really head scratching stuff because you guys aren’t dumb there just seems to be quite a disconnect with reality.

          I’m guessing it must be a left wing thing?

          • McFlock 21.1.1.1.1
            25 June 2017 at 7:59 pm

            Is Bill English John Key?

            Um, I won’t answer that, it’s the subject of a police investigation, um, I really don’t want to answer that, um, no, I guess no he isn’t….

          • marty mars 21.1.1.1.2
            25 June 2017 at 7:59 pm

            Key ain’t English remember?

            • BM 21.1.1.1.2.1
              25 June 2017 at 8:05 pm

              Key was no God, he was as polarising as he was popular.

              English’s more conservative “gee shucks” country boy approach has far more supporters than it does detractors, he’ll probably end up more popular than Key.

              • McFlock …
                25 June 2017 at 8:12 pm

                Maybe unless Barclay taped himself telling blinglish about taping, and blinglish’s subsequent advice or lack thereof. And Collins might want a 2 month gig as PM for her CV – it’ll really help with the prospective log and milk customers.

              • marty mars …
                25 June 2017 at 8:23 pm

                Yeah he was a real hero for the gnats last time he led them to an election record loss wasnt it? You think those gnat MPs have forgotten that? I dont think so. And here he is again stuffing it up lol go billshitter go

                • BM …
                  25 June 2017 at 8:36 pm

                  English failed because of Shipley and he was up against Clark

                  That woman was fucking hideous and so disliked I doubt Key would have done much better than English in 2001.

          • JanM 21.1.1.1.3
            25 June 2017 at 8:19 pm

            So what you’re saying is that we consistently overestimate the ability of the RW voter to give a damn?

            • BM 21.1.1.1.3.1
              25 June 2017 at 8:48 pm

              The alternative is a complete shit sandwich, no one’s in a hurry to have that.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                25 June 2017 at 10:08 pm

                That’s what the RW voter always gives us because they’re so accepting of the lies of their leaders.

          • Ed 21.1.1.1.4
            25 June 2017 at 8:24 pm

            Do you care about our ranking at 34 out of 41 in the OECD for child well-being ?

          • Draco T Bastard 21.1.1.1.5
            25 June 2017 at 9:45 pm

            I find it disturbing that you’re fine with politicians lying so blatantly and engaging in crimes tghat should be sending them to jail.

            Of course, if it was Left politicians lying you’d be screaming blue murder.

          • dv 21.1.1.1.6
            26 June 2017 at 9:09 am

            So why did Key go BM?

      • marty mars 21.1.2
        25 June 2017 at 7:51 pm

        Sounding a bit hollow there lol

      • Andre 21.1.3
        25 June 2017 at 7:56 pm

        True. Coz the bit of his soul that might have been affected was in the 49% he sold off a while back.

      • David Mac 21.1.4
        25 June 2017 at 7:58 pm

        Nor should it, he’s a first rate farmer.

        • BM 21.1.4.1
          25 June 2017 at 8:01 pm

          David, you seem a bit more on to it than most around here.

          Why do think the Todd Barcley “scandal” will have little effect on Bill English’s popularity or how people vote?

          • David Mac 21.1.4.1.1
            25 June 2017 at 8:11 pm

            Because if you asked random people to list their top 50 concerns Todd would be lucky to make many lists. Unfortunately for Bill I think the tiny bit that will stick in the minds of people more concerned about Shortland Street plots than Todd whatisname is ‘Bill fibbed’.

            • BM 21.1.4.1.1.1
              25 June 2017 at 8:42 pm

              Very true.
              Your last sentence, Like you, say everyone tells the odd fib can’t see it being the career ender everyone on here thinks it’s going to be.

              • marty mars …
                25 June 2017 at 8:47 pm

                Good you admit he’s a liar. Pity he’s too weak to own up – I spose he has always got another Sunday coming up hasn’t he.

              • Robert Guyton …
                25 June 2017 at 9:37 pm

                “Odd fib”
                Odd fib!
                Orchestrated litany, this stream, this gush, this torrent, BM.

                • McFlock …
                  25 June 2017 at 9:47 pm

                  That’s why nats are so shit at workplace safety: their instinct is to minimise the perceived extent of their own offending, isolate themselves from their colleagues’ offending, but the thought of eliminating tory corruption never occurs to them.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                25 June 2017 at 10:10 pm

                Prima facie, He’s been covering up a crime and that comes with up to seven years of jail.

                That’s not the odd fib. That’s an orchestrated series of lies designed to mislead and prevent the application of justice.

                RWNJS: Law N Order – for the little people but not for RWNJ politicians.

              • Ed …
                25 June 2017 at 10:16 pm

                What won’t you defend?

      • In Vino 21.1.5
        25 June 2017 at 8:01 pm

        ‘affect’ is the verb you are struggling for, BM (back at 21, where BM demonstrates weakness in syntax, along with other nonsense.

      • Psycho Milt 21.1.6
        25 June 2017 at 10:19 pm

        None of this is going to effect Bill English in the slightest.

        I expect not. Right-wingers don’t seem to have a problem with either crimes or the covering-up thereof by their leaders. However, those of us who expect better are free to try and promote that as a concept.

        • Stuart Munro 21.1.6.1
          25 June 2017 at 10:55 pm

          They don’t have to behave better – as long as they face a robust set of punishments.

  22. David Mac 22
    25 June 2017 at 7:46 pm

    Oh to have a dictophone rolling in the Fresh Sir JK’s place.

    “Oh don’t tell them that Bill….too late. They’ve got you on toast now Sport.”

  23. Cinny 23
    25 June 2017 at 8:18 pm

    Weka you’re bang on in your comments 18 above.

    MSN just published more info via Newsroom..

    “The board and the selection committee knew Barclay had:

    – already broken National Party rules by releasing the name of a challenging candidate.

    – breached the rules by speaking to the media between the close of nomination and the close of the pre-selection process.

    – spoken to his electoral office staff about employment matters that breached a confidentiality agreement.

    – not declared police had asked him to be interviewed over the taping of conversations of staffer Glenys Dickson on his candidate nomination form.

    – got staff in his Gore electorate office to canvass delegates to support his reselection when it was outside their contractual obligations and a misuse of taxpayer money.

    And there were issues around a $5000 loan Barclay had been given by the party for campaigning. At this point the loan had not been repaid or disclosed in the campaign donation register.”

    Lolz the dodgy board lead by Peter – let’s not change the fishing laws because I’ve shares in Sanford – Goodfellow. What a surprise, not.

    I must say tomorrow mornings live interviews with the outgoing PM will be interesting. And what do you know, Radio Live are talking about the Barclay thing as I’m typing.

    • Anne 23.1
      25 June 2017 at 8:38 pm

      Excerpt from Newsroom story:

      In late February the police began investigating Barclay about the use of an interception device to unlawfully record Dickson.
      Davie says not long after, he also got a “rark up” from another board member Glenda Hughes about supplying the police with the text messages he’d received from Bill English .
      “They made up part of my statement to the police and Glenda was furious I’d given them to the police.”
      After Dickson complained to the police, Hughes urged her to withdraw the complaint.

      Well I never. And a former senior police officer.

    • The decrypter 23.2
      25 June 2017 at 8:43 pm

      In the morn billshit could well lie and say he slept well last night.

    • ianmac 23.3
      25 June 2017 at 10:40 pm

      Gee thanks Cinny. Just when Bill must have believed that it was all over, ka-boom. Some of the details were already known but there is more and linking it all together is great.
      Though there is less to bother Bill than I had hoped. Expect Bill tomorrow on Morning Report he will say every Board has its moments of disagreement so nothing new. He will suggest that Labour has its troubles too etc etc.

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