Open mike 20/10/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 20th, 2011 - 106 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

106 comments on “Open mike 20/10/2011 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. millsy 1
    20 October 2011 at 6:36 am

    Those who complain that Labours industrial relations policy is a throwback to the 1970s forget that living standards and security were way higher then than they are now.

    It seems that there is a general consensus that wages and conditions should be held down, and people should be forever in financial misery.

    Fuck, I am just so over this country.

    Bring on National awards I say. The only people who think they are bad is those who want to pay only $2 an hour.

    • swordfish 1.1
      20 October 2011 at 3:26 pm

      So, why are you throwing away your vote on a Party (NZ First) that won’t make it back into Parliament, Millsy ?

      • millsy 1.1.1
        20 October 2011 at 8:00 pm

        Because unlike most of the posters on here, I dont have a deluded fantasy that Labour is going to some how rocket back to Clark-era levels of support in the next 6 weeks and Labour will pull off an upset victory.

        Labour are going to lose this November, and lose heavily. That is a FACT. Key needs someone who will give him a heck of the hard time from the opposition benches, and Winston is the man to do it. He actually puts some back bone into oppositon (though I wouldnt have him in government. He has a habit of selling out).

        I have been accused of being a NACT supporter of actually daring to suggest this on here, so sometime I know where the rednecks and the latte drinkers at Public Address are coming from.

  2. tc 2
    20 October 2011 at 7:03 am

    Finally went down to check out a temporary constructed party central and the waka on a windy rainy akl evening…..rugby ball shut, waka closed at 6, dodgy wet walkways on uneven wharf surfaces both in and outside and a very small area all up.

    3 years in office and that’s the best muzza and sideshow can do….its no wonder our economy is where it is. At least Americas cup gave akl a viaduct region, this one will just leave a large bill.

    • mickysavage 2.1
      20 October 2011 at 7:13 am

      And a tuppa waka!

    • Chris 2.2
      20 October 2011 at 9:11 am

      Should’ve gone down on Saturday or Sunday during the day – was a great day.

      • queenstfarmer 2.2.1
        20 October 2011 at 11:22 am

        Or during a game. Brilliant atmosphere. Everyone I talked to was saying how great it was, as do the media reports

        Must be very sad to be so ideological that you can’t even go somewhere like that without letting political views cloud (no pun intended) your vision.

        • tc 2.2.1.1
          20 October 2011 at 12:56 pm

          Nope more interested in what my ratepayer/taxpayer money leaves for me to get value from once the RWC is over given you’re actualy constructing stuff…..looks like absolutely nothing.

          Atmosphere comes with people and I’m not into Rugby, never have been, nothing polutical about that QstF…look beyond your own skewered views.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.2
          20 October 2011 at 1:48 pm

          The whole RWC is political – WTF am I paying for something I don’t want?

          I’m quite happy for my taxes and rates to go to local clubs to support them but I don’t see why I have to pay to subsidise a commercial operation.

          • King Kong 2.2.1.2.1
            20 October 2011 at 2:49 pm

            And I dont want my taxes going to fund the drug addled lifestyles of dole bludgers.
            I’m with you Draco, user pays.

            • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.2.1.1
              20 October 2011 at 3:02 pm

              The bludgers are all at the top of the capitalist pyramid scheme. They’re probably more drug addled to.

              There’s very very few people in the world who don’t want to work. The only reason why we have “unemployment” is because of a failure of society mostly because of the bludgers trying to keep as much of societies wealth to themselves rather than allowing it to be used.

              • just saying …
                20 October 2011 at 5:53 pm

                If ever there were random drug (inc alcohol) of doctors, lawyers, politicians, bankers, etc. etc., they’d leave bennies for dead in proportion involved, and volume of consumption.
                But that’s never going to happen because the whole motivation for calls to drug test benes is about humiliation and bullying those who can’t fight back, not any practical purpose.

            • mik e 2.2.1.2.1.2
              20 October 2011 at 5:43 pm

              KK So your against borrowing mountains of debt[$6billion in interest per year] bailing out private finance companies subsidizing multi billion dollars film firms.Subsidizing alcohol $ $5to$6billion a year it costs our country

            • mik e 2.2.1.2.1.3
              20 October 2011 at 11:39 pm

              But KKK your quite happy to fund foreign lenders that won’t spend any money in this country to the tune of $77 billion and rising interest rates on that $6billion per year plus which we will never see again . At least the bene’s you are bashing will be spending that money in NZ keeping wealthy landlords in tax free money as well as other services and retailers going in this recession . The last country to ditch benefits ended in misery Argentina cut all welfare and unemployment went from 6% to 38% redneck ape do some economics research before you start foaming at the mouth.

  3. Pete George 3
    20 October 2011 at 7:22 am

    Occupy Dunedin continues – but what’s really going on?

    I’ve visited twice and talked to several protesters – all were happy to chat intelligently about what they were doing and what their ideals were.

    But for a supposedly non-political protest there are some very political connections, including union banners.

    And more. Who is occupying Dunedin? Mana and Greens?

    • mickysavage 3.1
      20 October 2011 at 8:13 am

      Hold the front page … the Occupy protest is … gasp … POLITICAL!!!

      FFS Pete of course it is political.  It is addressing glaring weaknesses in the world’s economy and political system.

      THe fact that the group may not have let you spout UF policy is a sign of their intelligence and competence. 

      • Pete George 3.1.1
        20 October 2011 at 8:39 am

        MS, is “SMASH CAPITALISM” a sign of their intelligence and competence?

        What is doing without any central government a sign of?

        • mickysavage 3.1.1.1
          20 October 2011 at 8:51 am

          MS is “SMASH CAPITALISM” a sign of their intelligence and competence?
           
          It is a point of view and one which some believe strongly.
           
          But Petey do you realise how ridiculous your statement that the occupation is supposedly non-political is?

          • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1.1
            20 October 2011 at 8:56 am

            There’s actually very little “capitalism” or “free markets” left in the financial system of the world.

            It’s now all highly centrally planned and controlled financial markets (where prices are computer manipulated and predetermined), as well as billionaire banksters who benefit risk-free from socialising their deriavatives casino losses on to the rest of society.

            It’s not been real capitalism for roughly 30 years.

            Today its the final evolutions of crony cartel capitalism, which players like Pete George don’t get in the slightest.

          • Pete George 3.1.1.1.2
            20 October 2011 at 9:09 am

            You haven’t answerd either question. What do you think?

            • McFlock 3.1.1.1.2.1
              20 October 2011 at 1:31 pm

              Meh. I think that it’s a reasonable opinion to hold, but unachievable without major technology advances, particularly in energy generation.
               
              It shows that someone is intelligent enough to realise they’re being conned in a complex world, unlike someone who refuses to commit to any particular policy action.

              And imagining a society without central government is again a reasonable “outside the box” thought – and shows someone is smart enough to know that a banal weathervane with a nice hairdo being in government is more damaging to society than no government at all.

        • logie97 3.1.1.2
          20 October 2011 at 8:57 am

          Capitalism and Central Government are not the same thing mate. Capitalism is a political philosophy – and you aspire to sit in the Beehive?

        • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.3
          20 October 2011 at 10:54 am

          is “SMASH CAPITALISM” a sign of their intelligence and competence?

          Yes. Getting rid of capitalism may let us prevent an anthropogenic ELE. If we don’t then we will be forced to continue to ravage the planet eventually destroying the environment wiping out most life on Earth.

          What is doing without any central government a sign of?

          Anarchism of course, one of the older political philosophies.

    • Uturn 3.2
      20 October 2011 at 8:15 am

      Your blogpost seems to imply you’re startled (though somewhat ingenuinely I imagine) that political opposition to your ideas and methods exists and that since Occupy associate with those who are just like you (as far as supporting a hierarchical/class structure) anything they have to say is void owing to the inherent contradiction of stated ideal of Occupy. You want a ruling class, with you presumably near the top somewhere deciding what is good and bad. The socialists want to do the same, though with different “enemies”. Occupy say they aren’t political, but they have political friends. It’s all divisive politics, man.

    • marty mars 3.3
      20 October 2011 at 9:41 am

      “Is it collusion or coincidence that both Green and Mana party activists are fronting Occupy Dunedin?”

      coincidence but i would be most happy with collusion because that is the future of the parliment with a strong Mana and Greens presence, working together to create a better nation for everyone – that doesn’t compute for a self serving political aspirant willing to use anything and everything to further their own agenda like pete and that is why, struggling for relevance, his ilk are doomed to oblivion.

    • felix 3.4
      20 October 2011 at 9:57 am

      The 99.9% of Dunedin people deserve to know who has really taken over their Octagon. The 0.1% who are occupying should be honest amongst themselves what their real aims are, and then be honest with Dunedin.

      Replace “Octagon” with “Country” and you’re getting closer to it…

  4. Hilary 4
    20 October 2011 at 7:51 am

    PG -People who think hierarchically and in terms of leaders and followers are having a hard time getting their head around Occupy. My understanding is that they are inclusive political protests but not party political. People can bring along whatever banners/placards they feel expresses their concerns, if the Occupy group has collectively decided that. So of course some will bring along party or union banners. You could even bring your UF placard if you were prepared to join them and justify that. That’s called inclusion.

    • Pete George 4.1
      20 October 2011 at 8:08 am

      I was told I was welcome to speak for myself but not for a political organisation. A banner is speaking for an organisation.

      The people of Dunedin have a right to know the motives behind those leading the occupation.

      are having a hard time getting their head around Occupy

      I think a few people involved in Occupy might be having a hard time getting their heads around the fact that they are being used.

      • Colonial Viper 4.1.1
        20 October 2011 at 8:23 am

        I think a few people involved in Occupy might be having a hard time getting their heads around the fact that they are being used..

        Yes they are being used: by you. You’re the political user of Occupy Octagon here, you cynical wanna-be politician.

        • marty mars 4.1.1.1
          20 October 2011 at 9:25 am

          exactly CV anything and anyone is useful for pete to get his simpleton message out there. Like the rena his heavy oil pollutes leaving toxic material splattered around the varoius threads – all so that pete can further his pathetic personal political ambitions.

      • freedom 4.1.2
        20 October 2011 at 8:35 am

        Pete if you bothered to bone up on what the movement was before you strode in with puffed chest and feigned interest you might have realised that all your concerns are fully accounted for in the Occupy ideas. The movement is INCLUSIVE. i will gve you a minute to get a dictionary.

        got it? good, here are some other words for you to investigate
        humanity
        humility
        hubris

        One of them describe who we are working for
        one describes what it is all about
        one describes the content of your comments

        i will check back tonight to see if you managed to figure which was which. I am off to barter a day’s labour for some healthy food before your mates make it illegal to do so.

      • Viv 4.1.3
        20 October 2011 at 2:07 pm

        Pete,
        Judging by the comments & articles in the ODT it is fairly relaxed about Occupy. The mayor & council seem prepared to let things play out for a while and not force confrontation with the occupiers at this stage.
        The fact that the occupation stayed put during the heavy rain we had this week has shown Dunedin people that those involved are not ‘rent-a-mob’, they are determined motivated people with genuine concerns about the many things that are wrong with the current corporate controlled system.
        The occupy movement is about many issues, social justice, inequality, environmental , how could it not be political? The idea is that if you want to be involved you participate, get involved in discussion, spend time there & listen to other people.

        “The people of Dunedin have a right to know the motives behind those leading the occupation”

        It’s a bit like the Dylan song ” there’s something going on here, but you don’t know what it is…….”

        • Pete George 4.1.3.1
          20 October 2011 at 2:47 pm

          Viv, if you say the Channel 9 clip from last night on the DC meeting you would know that there’s growing frustration about what’s going on.

          Occupy Dunedin invited to speak to the Mayor and Chief Executive of the DCC

          On Monday, representatives from Occupy Dunedin were invited by the Mayor and Chief Executive of the DCC to speak at today’s Public Forum. Representatives took their turn to speak at the meeting – but then they all walked out without giving the Council any opportunity to address their concerns.

          The council have been co-operative and accommodating with the occupiers but if they keep getting fobbed off patience will wear even thinner.

          The public have mostly remained muted but don’t expect that to last long if they think their city is just being used.

          Occupy could do great things in New Zealand, or they could really stuff up their opportunity.

      • mik e 4.1.4
        20 October 2011 at 11:02 pm

        BY attention seeking follicly challenged airheads like you PG

    • millsy 4.2
      20 October 2011 at 8:13 pm

      I passed the local occupy movement tonight and gave them a toot and shouted out that my support.

      I would have stopped and talked to them but I couldnt find a parking place.

      It would give them a boost, given that most of the time they would have been told to get jobs, haircuts, etc.

  5. Uturn 5
    20 October 2011 at 8:20 am

    “I think a few people involved in Occupy might be having a hard time getting their heads around the fact that they are being used.”

    Everyone is being used. Ever heard of taxes? But what will really piss them off, is some guy coming from a white middle class perspective, treating them like they’re children. Pick your battles, aspiring MP man. You want votes, right?

    • Deadly_NZ 6.1
      20 October 2011 at 3:19 pm

      Thank you just grabbin me a copy now. it’ll fit in nice with some Psytrance and some Shape Shifters at a reasonable volume…

  7. Colonial Viper 7
    20 October 2011 at 8:39 am

    US Cops use strobe lights to blind and confuse press cameras/protestors

    http://www.youtube.com/user/RussiaToday#p/u/1/dVaCGHn8LnY

    Listen to the sound…including protestors saying look at the nice stuff JP Morgan’s $4.6M has bought for the NY police!

    And apparently some of the protestors also smell lol

  8. Ben 8
    20 October 2011 at 9:31 am

    Citigroup to pay $285 million to settle fraud case: http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20111019/bs_nm/us_citigroup_sec

    So basically, you can break the law as much as you like and as long as you can write a big enough cheque the problem will go away.

    They should not be settling these cases, no matter how much money the financial institutions offer them to make the case go away. How can they rebuild confidence in the system when they effectively let people get away with this sort of thing? $285 million is nothing to these guys.

    It’s no different to a drug dealer paying off the cops to turn a blind eye. It’s corruption, pure and simple.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.1
      20 October 2011 at 11:12 am

      It is the criminals paying the police to turn a blind eye. Every single person who works there should be under investigation and the organisation itself closed down. You don’t get honest business by letting dishonest businesses continue.

  9. thejackal 9
    20 October 2011 at 10:10 am

    National’s Election Hoarding’s 7

    In June the NBR reported: Treasury figures show the government’s borrowing of $380 million a week is about $80 million to $100 million a week more than it has to…

    • mik e 9.1
      20 October 2011 at 11:07 pm

      Jackal you figures are out of date the Govt debt is going to peak now at more than $77billion 2013 with no unexpected surprises , Debt is increasing by $1.5 billion a month now

      • thejackal 9.1.1
        27 October 2011 at 9:37 pm

        The post states the borrowing figures are quoted from June. The $38 billion is the current net government debt.

        Strange that National claim New Zealand will be back in black at about the same time your figures show we’ll be in debt by $77 billion. I wonder how much of the current $375 million per week National doesn’t need to be borrow?

        Blinglish has done pretty well at getting the country in hock as an excuse to privatize. He’s still saying that the Christchurch Earthquakes, the Rena disaster and now the Maui gas disaster aren’t going to effect their projections… talk about delusional.

  10. William Joyce 10
    20 October 2011 at 1:59 pm

    When any NZ business person is interviewed and asked what they would do to get the economy growing inevitably say they would remove “red tape” to make it easier to do business.
    And yet, and not for the first time either, NZ has been rated as the 3rd easiest country in the world in which to do business….

    New Zealand has ranked first as the world’s easiest place to start a business and third out of 183 countries for ease of doing business in a report from the International Finance Corporation and the World Bank.- Source

     
    So what’s going on?
    If they think that that is NZ’s problem then it shows they have no idea what the reality is – they should no longer be interviewed because they don’t have a clue.
    If they think that that is NZ’s problem then it shows that they have no solutions to NZ’s growth woes.
    If they think that that is NZ’s problem then it shows they are not engaging in original thought but are captured by the prevailing ideology of their group.
    If they think that that is NZ’s problem then it shows how easy it is to get them to parrot whatever the speaker at the last business conference said.
     
    It’s time we stopped, as the news announcers often say,  “look at the markets [and the exchange rates] to see how well they reacted to the news of…….”
    It’s time we stopped asking business people what’s good for NZ – they are just not qualified!
     

    • Draco T Bastard 10.1
      20 October 2011 at 2:29 pm

      +1

      The research is fairly conclusive – NZ managers are the worst in the world and yet the prevailing paradigm insists that we need them to make NZ better.

      • mik e 10.1.1
        20 October 2011 at 11:42 pm

        DTB And the failed ones end up as a career choice in the National party where they can get ahead no matter how bad they are!

    • millsy 10.2
      20 October 2011 at 8:03 pm

      It seems that migrants have no trouble in coming over and starting a business here – I dont hear them go on about red tape, but I suppose they are glad they dont have to bribe all and sundry to get started (nor do they have to pay protection money to the local crime overlord)

  11. Draco T Bastard 11
    20 October 2011 at 2:26 pm

    Voters swing from National after Rena disaster

    Eleven percent of people who voted for National in the 2008 general election say they will not do so when they head to the polls on November 26, because of the way the Government has handled the Rena disaster.

    That’s gotta hurt although this is the interesting line:

    The survey also found 46.8 percent of the 1,961 respondents rated Prime Minister John Key’s response to the crisis as ‘poor to very poor’.

    The question had 5 options:
    V. good
    good
    neutral
    poor
    V. poor

    They don’t tell us how many were neutral giving the impression that a majority found Key’s response to be “good”. Of course, if they were doing proper reporting they would have given the figures for all 5 possible responses. More underhanded support from the MSM for this government.

    [lprent: added the http on the link. ]

    • Deadly_NZ 11.2
      20 October 2011 at 3:24 pm

      I remember that one and a whole heap of V Poor’s that I ticked lol

    • swordfish 11.3
      20 October 2011 at 3:57 pm

      From the article: “The RadioLive-HorizonPoll shows 11% of people who voted National in 2008 now won’t do so because of the disaster, which effectively drops National’s current support nationwide by 3%.”

      Well, no, actually. The Nats got 44.9% at the 2008 General Election. Which surely means a fall of pretty damn close to 5 percentage points.

      • Draco T Bastard 11.3.1
        20 October 2011 at 5:03 pm

        Was wondering about that. The 3% did/does seem a little low but I hadn’t looked at the maths.

      • Puddleglum 11.3.2
        20 October 2011 at 7:57 pm

        I was also wondering about that.

        That 11% of 2008 National voters won’t vote National this time because of Rena, raises more questions than it answers.

        1. How does that ‘integrate’ with people who voted for other parties in 2008 but now will vote National? That is, will such people off-set the ones who, apparently, are prepared to desert National over the Rena?

        2.  Is that 11% partly made up of people who voted National in 2008 but, actually, have been saying in other Horizon polls that they were going to vote for some other party this time anyway, and now are mentioning the Rena as a reason for their changed vote – or, is it an additional 11% of 2008 National voters (on top of those who had already got to the point of switching) who now have decided, solely on the basis of the Rena, to vote for someone else?

        It’s hard to tell from the press releases quite what is meant. 

  12. Deuto 12
    20 October 2011 at 2:46 pm

    The Horizon Poll press release on Scoop also gives a little more detail –
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1110/S00338/radiolive-horizon-poll-65-judge-rena-response-as-poor.htm

    {Still learning how to do a short link] and oops this should be under the 11 comments. Please have patience with a new blogger!

    • Draco T Bastard 12.1
      20 October 2011 at 3:13 pm

      Ah, that’s a much better write up – probably because it’s Horizons press release.

  13. gary 13
    20 October 2011 at 2:47 pm

    Sascha Baron Cohens latest character revealed as Lord Monckton http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w833cAs9EN0

  14. marty mars 14
    20 October 2011 at 2:53 pm

    Brendon Burns puts a post up at Red Alert and this caught my eye

    http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2011/10/20/the-full-monty/

    “United Future Wigram candidate Ian Gaskin said he’d been given a clean slate by leader Peter Dunne to speak. He then variously stated that: We could solve our fuel needs by growing seaweed and turning it into oil, that DOC was not needed and should be folded into the Ministry of Agriculture or perhaps Tourism NZ

    and that fracking Canterbury’s landscape with pressurised water and chemicals may not extract enough gas or oil so perhaps a nuclear device might assist. I wonder if these are official United Future policies?”

    Maybe the headline, “Untied Future threatens to nuke Canterbury”

    One thing’s for sure pete won’t be jumping up and down like he did against Hone yesterday.

    • Pete George 14.1
      20 October 2011 at 3:15 pm

      Different league to Hone.

      UF candidates have been told they are free to express their own opinions and talk on local issues as they see fit, however you hope that clean slates don’t come with wet chalk.

      • felix 14.1.1
        20 October 2011 at 3:26 pm

        I agree it’s in a different league. Ian is actually being serious.

      • marty mars 14.1.2
        20 October 2011 at 3:44 pm

        yes Hone has Mana – black and white really.

        are you a fracking fan pete?

        • just saying 14.1.2.1
          20 October 2011 at 5:40 pm

          Slippery non-answer and diversion 5. 4. 3. 2…

        • Pete George 14.1.2.2
          20 October 2011 at 6:19 pm

          No, I’m not a fracking fan, too much doubt at this stage.

          UF don’t have a policy on it but my guess would be the party would be concerned about any possibility of water contamination as clean water (and retention of ownership of water) are strong party policy positions.

          • mickysavage 14.1.2.2.1
            20 October 2011 at 6:27 pm

            Petey
             
            Does UF have a position on the use of nuclear devices under the Canterbury plains to assist with fracking?
             

            • Pete George 14.1.2.2.1.1
              20 October 2011 at 6:41 pm

              “Retain New Zealand’s nuclear-free status” rules that out (phew). I agree with that.

              • McFlock …
                20 October 2011 at 6:44 pm

                I think I’ll have a drink to that 🙂

              • Puddleglum …
                20 October 2011 at 7:24 pm

                Congratulations, Pete, on your list ranking.

                In 2002 that would have got you into Parliament (I think?).

                All the best for the election. (Not an endorsement, but you know what I mean.)

                • millsy …
                  20 October 2011 at 8:09 pm

                  Too be honest, I cannot see UF getting any more seats than the one held by Mr Dunne. In any case, UF only got those seats in ’02 because thier leader performed so good with ‘the worm’, and got influence because the Greens threw their toys out of the cot over GE, driving Labour into the arms of United Future, and sending this country on a slow rightward drift. Thanks Greenies. Way to go guys.

                  • Puddleglum …
                    20 October 2011 at 9:34 pm

                    “Too be honest, I cannot see UF getting any more seats than the one held by Mr Dunne.”

                    Yep, that would be my pick for an election result.

                    But I just thought that Pete George needed acknowledging for actually getting involved in the political process – such as it is.

                    I don’t expect that people’s efforts will (or should) necessarily be rewarded. But Pete has put effort where his ‘mouth’ is (whatever location that happens to be – I honestly can’t work out where that is, but that’s not my point).

                    I just think that effort should be acknowledged – purely at a human level. 

                  • swordfish …
                    21 October 2011 at 1:42 am

                    “In any case, UF only got those seats in 02 because their leader performed so good with ‘the worm’.”

                    I tend to agree with former Alliance deputy leader, Sandra Lee, on this. It wasn’t so much the worm as the post-debate comments by TVNZ’s so-called panel of ‘experts’.

                    I taped that leaders’ debate and I can tell you that the worm was often as low as it was high while Dunne was speaking.

                    The ‘experts’ – clearly looking for some sort of interesting angle – decided to place total emphasis on those particular moments when Dunne charmed the worm and to hence declare him ‘the winner’. All very contrived. The print media, the next day, simply took their cue from the ‘experts’.

          • millsy 14.1.2.2.2
            20 October 2011 at 8:05 pm

            So Pete, do you think that DOC should be chopped as well?

            • Pete George 14.1.2.2.2.1
              20 October 2011 at 8:36 pm

              No, but I’d be happy if Doc found a way to chop their 1080 use.

              I was talking to someone from Forest and Bird last week who admitted that 1080 killed a lot of birds (including protected natives) but they claimed the bird numbers recovered faster than predators. Very dubious about that especially with kiwi.

              If a private company wanted to use some land and claimed that all the birdlife they killed wouldn’t matter because most species would eventually recover do you think they would get resource consent?

              • millsy …
                20 October 2011 at 8:46 pm

                What would you do Peter? Possum trapping, just like in the Barry Crump novels? You just to have to remember that possum trapping, etc is more of a lifestyle than an occupation, so you couldnt hope to make a dent in umemployment with it. And a possum fur industry would never get beyond a niche market.

                • Pete George …
                  20 October 2011 at 9:01 pm

                  There’s no way to replace 1080 at the moment without getting an increase in predator numbers. Some methods like trapping and shooting (that’s how I do it) can be increased but nowhere near enough.

                  1080 is an easy solution for DOC to keep using but it hasn’t solved anything over decades of use.

                  The main aim apart from trialling existing methods other than 1080 in select areas is to substantially increase research into alternatives.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    20 October 2011 at 9:34 pm

                    1080 is an easy solution for DOC to keep using but it hasn’t solved anything over decades of use.

                    BS, I remember when Rangitoto never used to flower. Does now but that only happened after the 1080 drops.

                    So why don’t you get yourself educated before you open your mouth you moron.

                    • lprent …
                      20 October 2011 at 10:20 pm

                      Yep, and I have never seen a GOOD alternative yet that keeps the trees flowering. Same when we were looking at our bush on the farm.

                      Quite simply no effective alternative.

                      Unless of course we want to get the Aussies invading to protect their damn pests.

                    • thejackal …
                      27 October 2011 at 10:06 pm

                      There are alternatives. The fact of the matter is that 1080 is used because it’s cost effective, but it will not work to achieve eradication of pests or protection of native species. It is simply delaying the inevitable in many cases.

                      1080 is not the best way to eradicate pests while trying to protect endangered species. The alternatives take lots of man-hours, training and a very large budget. Extensive fencing projects, relocation, trapping and cyanide is the best solution if we want to keep a lot of our endemic endangered species.

                      I believe there has been some developments to increase hit rates and reduce cyanide shyness from possums that don’t initially receive a fatal dose. The advantage is that cyanide totally breaks down and has a lower secondary poisoning risk if applied correctly.

                      Unfortunately having a lot of people learning how to hunt and trap animals in the bush doesn’t fit well with the systems ideal of having everybody dependent on the state. That would be one reason why the government is willing to sacrifice many other species, the land and waterways in their failed use of 1080.

              • lprent …
                20 October 2011 at 10:29 pm

                Same principle as chemotherapy – poisoning differentially. Works as well as 1080. More people surviving the unsurvivable. More bush and native fauna as well.

      • Ianupnorth 14.1.3
        20 October 2011 at 10:32 pm

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10760543

        Nice to see you have convicted bank robbers on your list – if you get 5% will he be your law and order spokesperson? 

  15. William Joyce 15
    20 October 2011 at 3:11 pm

    One would think that following the Sep 4 earthquake (and suspecting a bigger one was quite possible), you would want to know what was going on under Christchurch.
    I don’t know who had the ultimate authority regarding funding (i.e. the commission or cabinet) but it seems to be that someone dropped the ball post-September earthquake.
     

    GNS Science unsuccessfully pushed for more Government funding to investigate faults under Christchurch after the September earthquake last year, a hearing has heard.
    GNS Natural Hazards Research manager Dr Kelvin Berryman today told the Canterbury earthquakes royal commission that he asked the now-defunct Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Commission for money to look at the possibility of a major aftershock near Christchurch.
    “One of the proposals was to conduct additional work recognising the area of Christchurch and that some of these aftershocks were relatively close to Christchurch,” he said.
    The request was made in December last year but no funds were provided.
    Less than three months later, on February 22, a magnitude-6.3 earthquake, centred just 10 kilometres southeast of central Christchurch, struck killing 182 people……..
     
    Elliot’s line of questioning has focused on whether GNS informed the public about the risk of a more devastating quake after September 4.
    Under scrutiny yesterday, Berryman admitted GNS Science was aware of the possibility of a more devastating tremor striking near central Christchurch after the magnitude-7.1 shake on September 4, 2010.
    However, in the first few weeks after the September quake the possibility of more devastating aftershock was intentionally not discussed. It was considered that it would be unhelpful for a “traumatised” public.
    “It’s rather alarmist to say there could have been a bigger event.”
    – Source

     
    I don’t know what would have changed if we had known that a bigger quake was likely but it would have been in the interests of the people of Canterbury to be informed so they could make choices.

    Like the parents of the toddler who was killed by the falling TV might have secured their furniture if they knew a bigger one was possible.
    GNS Science made the decision not to tell the public….but they tell anyone?
     
    Was the commission advised? Did cabinet know?
    If then they did then they dropped the ball – I hope the MSM get of their perches and look into who knew what and when.
    The commission was made up of:

    They are retiring Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry director-general Murray Sherwin, Canterbury regional council commissioner Dame Margaret Bazely, earthquake engineer David Hopkins, social expert Arihia Bennett, Mayor Kelvin Coe, Mayor Bob Parker and [David Ayers] – David Ayer website

    Of course we already know who the slack-jawed knuckle draggers that comprise our cabinet are.

    • Puddleglum 15.1
      20 October 2011 at 9:48 pm

      A very good comment William Joyce.

      What has really irritated me during the last year is the knowledge (yes, knowledge) that our geologists have had their public comments filtered – so as not to cause ‘alarm’. 

      For goodness’ sake. We are being treated as children by our ‘betters’. We are supposedly susceptible to ‘panic’ and they have decided that it is not in our (read ‘their’) interests for us to ‘panic’ (i.e., decide what we want to do in response to all the available information). 

      So anti-democratic, yet it comes so naturally to those with ‘positions of responsibility’. People seen as mushrooms.

      We had a right to hear it all. Then we could, perhaps, ‘panic’, talk to each other and, who knows, maybe come to some sensible response collectively. That process was never allowed to happen and never trusted. 

      Why?

      Because it would have disrupted ‘business as usual’. And that – more than anything else – is verboten.

      • Draco T Bastard 15.1.1
        20 October 2011 at 10:19 pm

        Because it would have disrupted ‘business as usual’. And that – more than anything else – is verboten.

        QFT

        In our present socio-economic paradigm, business is more important than life.

  16. thejackal 16
    20 October 2011 at 3:35 pm

    Corexit’s Deadly Legacy

    I received a very interesting email today. It’s all about the poisonous substance known as Corexit 9500 that’s been used on the Bay of Plenty oil spill by Maritime New Zealand…

  17. William Joyce 17
    20 October 2011 at 3:43 pm

    Naomi Wolf arrested by NYPD at OWS.
    A must read for all those who still think we have the right to protest in a post-9/11, police state, surveillance society.

  18. just saying 18
    20 October 2011 at 4:48 pm

    Apropos of nothing really. I was curious about Key’s middle name so I googled him.
    From wiki I found this synopsis interesting

    “Before politics

    Key’s first job was in 1982, as an auditor at McCulloch Menzies, and he then moved to be a project manager at Christchurch-based clothing manufacturer Lane Walker Rudkin for two years.[7] Key began working as a foreign exchange dealer at Elders Finance in Wellington, and rose to the position of head foreign exchange trader two years later, then moved to Auckland-based Bankers Trust in 1988.[3]

    In 1995, he joined Merrill Lynch as head of Asian foreign exchange in Singapore. That same year he was promoted to Merrill’s global head of foreign exchange, based in London, where he may have earned around US$2.25 million a year including bonuses, which is about NZ$5 million at 2001 exchange rates.[3][8] Some co-workers called him “the smiling assassin” for maintaining his usual cheerfulness while sacking dozens (some say hundreds) of staff after heavy losses from the 1998 Russian financial crisis.[4][8] He was a member of the Foreign Exchange Committee of the New York Federal Reserve Bank from 1999 to 2001.[9]”

  19. joe90 19
    20 October 2011 at 4:50 pm

    The Economist: Trouble Island.

    UNDER intense international pressure to lift banking secrecy, the first and biggest of the world’s “tax havens”—places that charge low or no taxes to foreigners—is ceding some ground. In a deal signed on October 6th, Switzerland agreed to tax money held in its banks by British residents (it had already done a similar deal with Germany). These customers face a levy of up to 34% as well as, from 2013, a withholding tax.

  20. logie97 20
    20 October 2011 at 6:29 pm

    One News tonight. 8 minutes in.
    Shivers are running through the finance markets tonight. … Greek debt … our Exchange took a hit – take a look at this …

    Last night…
    Shivers are running through the finance markets tonight. … Greek debt …
    Earlier this week…
    Shivers are running through the finance markets tonight. … Greek debt …
    A couple of weeks ago…
    Shivers are running through the finance markets tonight. … Greek debt …

    Oh surprise, surprise. When are they going to give us more than a 30 second soundbite and give us an in-depth report on why? Otherwise only tell us when something new develops.

    I can remember a time when the state of exchange rates and shares did not have a special time on television news. Since the Lange government, however, when the novices cashed up their pension funds and dived into stocks and shares, the preoccupation of news and the hooray/gloom moments has become a regular feature in this time-slot.

    Easy, lazy journalism, and programming and to make matters worse, the weather has now claimed three slots in this section.

    I wonder if, tonight, we will get an item where 2 gunmen held up a corner-shop in some remote African township and 3 guardsmen were seriously wounded in liberating the shop-keeper. (Who validates these reports, or are they fillers created in the back-rooms to make us believe that we have to be ever vigilant in the war on terror(ists)?
    Perhaps they will save that story for another night, (when there is one massive high parked over the Tasman and the Pacific and Jimbo has nothing to tell us about the weather except that “It will hot and sunny everywhere (folks!”)).

    • Treetop 20.1
      20 October 2011 at 7:02 pm

      More on the financial crisis in Greece as an important meeting at the weekend. There was an item on RNZ (think after 7 am) this morning which you probably can download on Greece.

      I wonder what the percentage of wealth is which the top 1% earn in Greece?

      In USA 1% earn 33% of the wealth.
      In NZ 1% earn 16% of the wealth.
      This was on TV 6 pm news last weekend, think it was TV 1.

      On TV 3 at 6 pm 11 % of National voters said that they would not vote National due to how the Rena spill has been handled. Not sure about number of participants or area in the poll.

      Also Banks is second with the polling in Epsom.

      Sooner the RWC is over the sooner people can wake up to the shit which is hitting the fan big time concerning NZ politics and how this government ALWAYS talks about a rosy future forgetting about living in the present.

      • logie97 20.1.1
        20 October 2011 at 7:54 pm

        Thanks Treetop.
        – may I make one observation regarding your percentages and wealth – for earn change to control. They don’t earn much at all. They accrue most of their wealth on the backs of the earners – usually while they sleep or are swanning off around the world.

        Will look up the ReplayRadio item.

        Meantime, “What’s a Grecian urn?” “Oh, about 20 drachmas a day.”
        Sorry but have been waiting to get that one in …

  21. pollywog 21
    20 October 2011 at 10:29 pm

    dunno if this was posted but…

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed–the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html

    …makes for interesting reading

    Note : Key’s old firm, Merril Lynch, is in the top 10 of what essentially equates to the ‘New World Order’

    • Draco T Bastard 21.1
      20 October 2011 at 11:53 pm

      The basic effect of capitalist free-market is to concentrate wealth and power in fewer and fewer hands. That, quite simply, is what it is designed to do. There’s no way such concentration could come about without the property rules that have grown with capitalism.

      You’ll notice that the FTAs that get signed have very little to do with trade but with a hell of a lot to do with free money movement and foreign ownership.

      • Draco T Bastard 21.1.1
        21 October 2011 at 12:27 am

        World Debt Guide
        Actually, that title that they proudly display is wrong. What it should be is Debt guide to some of the biggest economies.

        Anyway, on with the show.

        Both Britain and Japan are sitting close to 500% of GDP in debt. The lesson that some people seem to have learned since WWII is that to build an economy requires debt – lots of it. When we consider these debts in line with who probably owns most of them then we should probably be doing a massive investigation into how they came about.

        National should, in light of their massive unnecessary borrowing over the last three years, be the first to be investigated.

  22. Colonial Viper 22
    21 October 2011 at 1:22 am

    Author of “Disaster Capitalism” Naomi Wolf arrested by NYC Police

    http://www.youtube.com/user/RussiaToday#p/u/5/P1mWnbOE8Qo

    So much for the land of the free