Open mike 21/04/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, April 21st, 2019 - 163 comments
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163 comments on “Open mike 21/04/2019 ”

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  1. patricia bremner 1
    21 April 2019 at 7:27 am

    Until the Davos crowd fund carbon capture and put their wealth into saving the planet we appear doomed. The deadliest sin… greed. Western culture has not lived with nature respectfully, it has raped and subjugated all the way. This has spread like a virus.

    We need to become minimalists very quickly or perish along with the rest of Earths organisms.

    David Attenborough is correct…10 short years to change.

    • Kevin 1.1
      21 April 2019 at 1:48 pm

      This is exactly what Guy McPherson has been hammering for years but he is a ‘nut job’ but as soon as Attenborough comes to the same conclusion it’s now believable.

      • patricia bremner 1.1.1
        21 April 2019 at 6:44 pm

        You are correct, but hopefully the Extinction Rebellion is underlining the emergency Kevin.

  2. Sancho_Panza 2
    21 April 2019 at 7:39 am

    What's a conservative Nacionalista to do when confronted with a fired-up Jacinda ?

  4. aj 4
    21 April 2019 at 9:08 am

    Sex, Lies and Julian Assange

    In this 2012 ABC Four Corners investigation, reporter Andrew Fowler goes to Sweden for a revealing look at the allegations of sexual crimes hanging over Julian Assange's head. This is compulsory viewing for anyone wanting to look objectively at the events leading to the current saga.

    This 46 minute program can be viewed here

    From Global Research

    "There is no doubt whatsoever of the injustice and persecution of Assange by the world’s only hyper power, America, because Assange published details of US war crimes and corruption. Its that simple!

    Being forced to seek refuge in an Embassy in London is a disgrace for Britain, a Country with a long tradition of fair play and justice.

    "If, after watching this documentary, you believe anything else, you are easy pliable fodder for manipulation by what has become, totalitarian States. It means you never read and understood the writings of Aldous Huxley or George Orwell. It means you are ‘a sheeple’. If you can’t see through the fog of disinformation and propaganda, you have no idea of the concept of freedom"

    • Psycho Milt 4.1
      21 April 2019 at 10:58 am

      My favourite part is where Assange is interviewed by the Swedish Police and tells the interviewer he's worried that the interview will be leaked to the press. The interviewer assures Assange he's not going to leak anything. Later, the interview is leaked. I expect the irony was totally lost on Assange, but no doubt the cops had a good giggle over the poetic justice of it.

      • francesca 4.1.1
        21 April 2019 at 12:17 pm

        Yes what a giggle , when the state justice system , with all its power ,breaches its own rules and acts against the "accused" who at this point is deemed innocent until proved guilty.

        Thus queering the pitch for a fair trial

        Oh its quite delicious to see the notion of justice dishonoured in such a way

        • Psycho Milt 4.1.1.1
          21 April 2019 at 12:30 pm

          Yes, it's almost as though the indiscriminate leaking of confidential information might not be an unalloyed good, or something.

          That unintended humour in the documentary wasn't really all that funny, but it did lighten the mood a bit after all the rape apologia that preceded it. That stuff wasn't funny at all.

      • Brigid 4.1.2
        21 April 2019 at 12:30 pm

        Apart from the point Francesca has made, there's quite a difference between the information the Swedish Police leaked and the information published by Wikileaks.

        It's a shame you can't see that.

        Is there any point in me spelling it out for you?

        Probably not.

        • Psycho Milt 4.1.2.1
          21 April 2019 at 1:25 pm

          Quite a difference, yes. In this case, the leak was targeted, rather than a wholesale dump of confidential information that can put people's lives at risk.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 4.1.2.1.1
            21 April 2019 at 1:31 pm

            Who/what were the ‘Swedish police’ targetting with their leak, and why?

            What were they aiming to achieve?

            • Psycho Milt 4.1.2.1.1.1
              21 April 2019 at 3:32 pm

              Identity and motive(s) of the leaker are unknown (to me at least). Could be they were part of a devious black op to try and discredit Assange, could be someone was annoyed enough at Assange's arrogance to want to poke a needle in his puffed-up self-importance, could be one of them saw the irony in leaking the world champion leaker's confidential info. Could be just about anything.

          • francesca 4.1.2.1.2
            21 April 2019 at 1:33 pm

            Psycho
            Care to elaborate?

            • Psycho Milt 4.1.2.1.2.1
              21 April 2019 at 3:35 pm

              Which bit? Seems likely the leak of Assange's police interview was targeted rather than a wholesale dump of police interviews to the papers, because there are no news stories about a wholesale dump of Swedish police interviews. Wikileaks, on the other hand, does just dump whatever's handed to it onto the Internet, and there are plenty of news reports of people put at risk by it.

              • francesca …
                21 April 2019 at 4:49 pm

                So PM, please tell me who has been harmed and put at risk by Wikileaks dumps?

                Anyone killed or jailed or tortured?Would be big news if that had happened

                I can only name Assange himself as being at risk from Wikileaks dumps, particularly those outing war criminals

                • joe90 …
                  21 April 2019 at 5:15 pm

                  please tell me who has been harmed and put at risk by Wikileaks dumps?

                  He was prepared to put Afghan contractors and their families in harms way and the prick deliberately smeared the reputation of a murder victim and was more then happy to prolong the family's anguish.

                  A reporter worried that Assange would risk killing Afghans who had co-operated with American forces if he put US secrets online without taking the basic precaution of removing their names. "Well, they're informants," Assange replied. "So, if they get killed, they've got it coming to them. They deserve it."

                  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/sep/18/julian-assange-wikileaks-nick-cohen

                  With Assange behind it, the Seth Rich hoax moved into the almost-mainstream, spawning a quickly-retracted report on Fox News, and a series of “investigations” by Assange ally Sean Hannity. It also wreaked havoc in the lives of Rich’s surviving family, particularly his anguished parents who later begged perpetrators of the charade “to give us peace, and to give law enforcement the time and space to do the investigation they need to solve our son's murder.”

                  […]

                  In the end, the most charitable interpretation of Assange’s “dissembling” as Mueller calls it, in the Seth Rich hoax is that he genuinely couldn’t rule out the possibility that Rich was his source. The Mueller report demolished that final moral refuge. Rich had been dead four days when Assange received the DNC files.

                  https://www.thedailybeast.com/mueller-report-julian-assange-smeared-seth-rich-to-cover-for-russians?

                  • francesca …
                    21 April 2019 at 5:41 pm

                    "a reporter worried"

                    "Seth Rich" Assange was incredibly tight lipped about that,. He has never exposed a source, he had very little to say

                    Bill Binney, the architect of NSA who argued for targeted surveillance rather than scoop em all up had and has far more to say about Rich

                    https://medium.com/@markfmccarty/bill-binney-states-that-the-nsa-has-32-pages-of-communications-between-seth-rich-and-julian-54a2df5a0e5b

                    As does Seymour Hersh

                    https://powerhournation.com/investigative-reporter-sy-hersh-says-seth-rich-was-the-dnc-leaker/

                    • aj …
                      21 April 2019 at 10:19 pm

                      the Seth Rich hoax

                      If we didn't know it already the election of Trump and subsequent events shows that the truth can be far stranger than fiction.

                  • mauī …
                    21 April 2019 at 5:49 pm

                    Thanks for that Joe, always good to get the smears on whistleblowers and journalism out in the open.

                    • joe90 …
                      21 April 2019 at 5:55 pm

                      Manning blew the whistle, not Assange.

                    • One Two []
                      21 April 2019 at 6:04 pm

                      Confirmation bias is the thread for you, joe…

                      All that time trawling the net has confirmed your bias…

                      Twisted.

                    • mauī …
                      21 April 2019 at 6:23 pm

                      Thank you One Two.

                    • One Two []
                      21 April 2019 at 6:36 pm

                      Thanks not necessary , maui…but I hear you…

                      J90's commentary is sub par as a rule…but that particular comment reeks of someone who needs to get outside more and vary the sources of sites visited…

                      J90 has linked to snopes article, today…which is a strong signal of how he has arrived at such a perspective where assange is not a whistleblower…but manning is…

                      Snopes is likely one of his speed dial sites…and is a red flag anytime you see a link to that site…

                    • marty mars …
                      21 April 2019 at 6:46 pm

                      Bullshit one two – joe is a respected commenter with valuable information and insights – maui and you are not really much truck as commenters imo – just too negative all the time. It is funny watching maui without ed – sad when the organ grinder is missing alright.

                    • One Two []
                      21 April 2019 at 7:02 pm

                      All very subjective, eh marty…

                      Joes insights are most often limited to a single word…or a few words at times…

                      That possibly appeals to certain folks…

                      Based on your assessment of joe…how would you assess yourself?

                      Remember to factor in all of the abuse you've delivered…plenty of it…many many years worth…

                    • Andre …
                      21 April 2019 at 6:54 pm

                      Uh marty, heee's baaaaack. At least it looks like it. Check the first comment over on Confirmation Bias.

                    • marty mars …
                      21 April 2019 at 6:59 pm

                      lol that's sad

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      21 April 2019 at 7:11 pm

                      Check the first comment over on Confirmation Bias.

                      Bring back Ed and bring back Paul? Doesn't that cause one of those space/time distortions that create big explosions in scifi movies?

                    • joe90 …
                      21 April 2019 at 7:14 pm

                      or a few words at times…

                      Brevity, rather than arcane word salads and unfulfilled ellipses.

                      You should try it sometime, sport.

                    • One Two []
                      21 April 2019 at 7:25 pm

                      brevity you reckon, joe…

                      I doubt you believe that…I certainly don't…

                      The comment you made about assange/manning was as bad as your linking to snopes…

                      Running away from the Bigtree 'scum' question I asked you, spoke to your personality…

                      Eh…sport…

                    • joe90 …
                      21 April 2019 at 7:36 pm

                      Bigtree 'scum' question

                      Proplaguers are scum. All of them.

                      #Proplaguers

                    • One Two []
                      21 April 2019 at 8:04 pm

                      Using a hashtag serves to illustrate where you've gone aray…

                      Here's what I reckon…

                      As a result of your extremely warped and lopsided reading habits…

                      Every single one of your social feeds is extremely warped…you get how it functions eh…surely…

                      So…you trigger fingered an (anti s*mitic smear) reaction and posted the bigtree tweet thread…before you bothered to cross read the background of what was going on to orthodox jewish community in Rockland County…and now elsewhere in NYC…

                      …because your extremely lopsided reading has warped you into such a twisted state…confirmation bias is unrecognizable to you…

                      I called you out…you ran…because I knew what you'd done…see above…

                      Refute it … go on…go for it…

                    • marty mars …
                      21 April 2019 at 7:36 pm

                      yeah Joe is pithy one two – maybe if you didn't spend all your time abusing others you'd have something to say too. It seems like you write a lot of words and say very little. But it takes all sorts…

                    • One Two []
                      21 April 2019 at 8:12 pm

                      I'm the abuser…

                      Marty…shall I post your history of abuse back to you…again…

                      The apologies you used to tend were so contrived…because you need to convince yourself of being a good guy…

                      Long archived records of abusive insults on this site…you and the angry man club…says you've got it twisted…

                      So my comments go over your heads…handle it better…

                      We're not all the same, marty…some of us know more about certain subjects…

                      Simple 'maths' for you…nothing that warrants the abuse you hurl…bro…

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      21 April 2019 at 8:25 pm

                      …my comments go over your heads…

                      We're not all the same, marty…some of us know more about certain subjects…

                      It's like Clayton Weatherston had access to the Internet. Has anyone checked to make sure he's still serving his sentence?

                    • marty mars …
                      21 April 2019 at 8:27 pm

                      You're not my bro you racist prick one two – still spilling your bile on people, still trying to be different to your reality, your sadness. Stop blaming others for your stuff one two – own it and it will put you on the track which leads to the road that will set you free. Believe and it will happen.

                      Edit @ PM – lol

                    • joe90 …
                      21 April 2019 at 8:34 pm

                      So…you trigger fingered an (anti s*mitic smear) reaction and posted the bigtree tweet thread…before you bothered to cross read the background of what was going on to orthodox jewish community in Rockland County…and now elsewhere in NYC…

                      Que?

                      I don't speak jabberwocky so best you translate.

                  • Kevin …
                    21 April 2019 at 6:23 pm

                    The US Govt had no problem outting one of their own spies, Valerie Plame, and knowingly endangering her entire network just because her husband wrote a paper criticising the bullshit around Iraq.

                • Psycho Milt …
                  21 April 2019 at 6:49 pm

                  So PM, please tell me who has been harmed and put at risk by Wikileaks dumps?

                  Not my job. I said "there are plenty of news reports of people put at risk by [Wikileaks dumping data without checking it first]." You can confirm that for yourself simply by Googling has wikileaks put people at risk.

                  As I said, there are plenty of reports in that results list, but this one makes for a representative example: Private lives are collateral damage in Wikileaks' document dumps

                  • Brigid …
                    21 April 2019 at 7:23 pm

                    " You can confirm that for yourself simply by Googling has wikileaks put people at risk. "

                    Oh dear

                    And that the interwebs says it makes it true.

                    Where the hell did we find the truth before the internet came along. How did we cope??!

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      21 April 2019 at 8:04 pm

                      And that the interwebs says it makes it true.

                      Not even slightly. My claim was "there are plenty of news reports of people put at risk" and the truth of that is confirmed by a Google search, as I said. The veracity of the news reports is a different matter entirely. Do you dispute the news reports?

          • Kevin 4.1.2.1.3
            21 April 2019 at 6:16 pm

            Who lives were at risk from the WikiLeaks dump?

      • McFlock 4.1.3
        21 April 2019 at 5:03 pm

        I quite liked the bit at 14:10 where A's UK legal advisor talks about red notices vs orange notices. According to her, red notices are just for terrorists, and even ghaddafi only had an orange notice, so totes suss on that.

        <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol_notice#Notice_types">Notice colour is about type of notice function, not severity</a>. Notices to provisionally arrest (red notice) are issued by the thousands every year. Ghaddafi was, according to A's "advisor", on an orange notice – imminent threat to public safety. Demanding the provisional arrest of a head of state would we problematic, to say the least.

        Not figuring that out makes the report seem a bit gullible.

        Rest of it seems to be same old same old – yanks don't like wikileaks, onward extradition, demands for declarations of immunity (in essence), his accusers didn't act in the approapriate way for victims, and so on. Rape apology groundhog day.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 4.1.3.1
          21 April 2019 at 5:43 pm

          "Rape apology groundhog day."

          "One of the very few advantages to Assange being behind bars in the UK’s version of Guantanamo Bay instead of holed up in the Ecuadorian embassy is that the arguments are so much clearer and more honest now. You can no longer get away with claiming that Assange is just a coward hiding from justice who can “leave whenever he wants” and present yourself as merely a casual observer who just happens to want to share his opinion that the WikiLeaks founder is a fascist Russian spy rapist who smells bad and mistreats his cat, because you will always be entering a discussion involving the fact that Assange is in prison awaiting extradition to the United States."

          https://caitlinjohnstone.com/

          https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/ten-tips-for-arguing-against-assange-smears-a666a9221546

          • greywarshark 4.1.3.1.1
            21 April 2019 at 5:49 pm

            DrowsyMKram + 1

          • McFlock 4.1.3.1.2
            21 April 2019 at 8:25 pm

            UK version of gtimo, huh. Lols.

            If he'd never set foot in the embassy, he would have been a free man within a couple of years. Then he might have been able to skip the country when the yanks finally made their move.

            He stuffed himself good and proper, because he didn't want to face sexual assault proceedings.

            • francesca 4.1.3.1.2.1
              21 April 2019 at 9:03 pm

              And the Ecuador government grants asylum on the grounds that rape charges are pending .

              Really?

              Asylum was granted on Ecuadorean recognition that Assange was a political refugee.

              Who knew that Obama had qualms about press freedom when he'd jailed more whistleblowers than any previous president.

              And Assange's prompt re arrest an hour after the arrest for bail jumping points to the fact that Assange and his legal team were right to fear extradition to the US

              • McFlock …
                21 April 2019 at 9:57 pm

                lol Ecuador got a bargaining chip.

                As for the US, it does seem Holder decided against going after Assange. So really, yeah – Assange put himself on ice only to be extradited by the guy he helped get elected.

                Quite poetic, really.

                • francesca …
                  21 April 2019 at 10:57 pm

                  But Clinton did win the popular vote.

                  So convinced was she of a landslide victory she didnt bother to campaign in the very states she needed for an electoral college vote
                  Cant blame Assange for that

                  • McFlock …
                    21 April 2019 at 11:21 pm

                    Lucky that's not what I said, then.

                    But wikileaks' little selective release certainly helped dolt45 get elected. Made a big part of the campaign. <a href="https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/dec/18/john-podesta/its-true-wikileaks-dumped-podesta-emails-hour-afte/">An hour</a> after the "grab 'em by the pussy" tape surfaced, wikileaks announced the podesta email dump. Helpful coincidence, that.

                    So yeah – pretty fucking poetic if you ask me. He gets so far up his own PR spin that he helps get elected the guy who does the thing the Obama administration decided to avoid (for very good reasons – if the hacking evidence is as thin as it looks so far, the extradition is a serious 1st amendment issue).

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      22 April 2019 at 12:33 am

                      "pretty fucking poetic if you ask me" – the schadenfreude is strong in this one.

                    • McFlock …
                      22 April 2019 at 12:56 am

                      Gotta say, after almost ten years of this crap I do think it's pretty funny.

                      He was set to go to Sweden, do his trial, maybe even get found innocent but even if found guilty of rape he wouldn't have spent as long in prison as he spent in the embassy (I don't think Sweden has mandatory minimums, so he'd be on the same scale as every other rapist, just at the lighter end of sentencing). And the yanks didn't have a case in those days. Also – hacking? Wasn't the big fear being charged under the Espionage Act? lol

                      But no, he locked himself in an apartment for seven years, only to be sold like a secondhand sofa (makes people uncomfortable, is a bit smelly, might as well make some cash) and the guy he helped get elected turned out to have fewer legal scruples that the people he'd been afraid of.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      22 April 2019 at 2:18 am

                      Just "pretty funny"?

                      You say "smelly", I say 'smeary’.

                      Several BIG stinks – best put a ‘lid’ on them (hush hush)?

                    • McFlock …
                      22 April 2019 at 2:43 am

                      Well, it's not laugh-out-loud material. There's just a pleasing symmettry to the idea that he evaded sexual assault proceedings for so long that the thin excuse he used to justify his evasion ended up becoming reality, brought into actuality by the dictatorial administration he helped get elected.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      22 April 2019 at 3:00 am

                      Ah, "a pleasing symmettry" – how wonderfully abstract.

                      The delightful plight of the smelly man has barely begun.

                    • McFlock …
                      22 April 2019 at 3:04 pm

                      Maybe I'll feel bad for him if the yanks actually get a hold of him and sentence him to some insane time. But at the moment, everything that's happened has been the result of his own actions <i>even if he didn't do the alleged sexual assaults</i>.

        • One Two 4.1.3.2
          21 April 2019 at 6:08 pm

          rape apology groundhog day…

          Have you been given a free pass to repeat that statement ad nauseum, flocky?

          Or do you enjoy repeating it…

          Both…more…something else perhaps…

          • McFlock 4.1.3.2.1
            21 April 2019 at 8:27 pm

            If you jerks want to keep recycling the rape apology tropes you love, I'll keep recycling the groundhog day reference.

            • mauī 4.1.3.2.1.1
              21 April 2019 at 9:04 pm

              Can't remember many or any tropes being rolled out to be honest. Has anyone been saying "boys will be boys", etc.

              • McFlock …
                22 April 2019 at 3:15 pm

                Well, you obviously haven't read any of the threads over the years. Look for the comments preceding the phrase "rape apologist", that'll be a good start.

            • One Two 4.1.3.2.1.2
              22 April 2019 at 9:32 am

              …you just enjoy saying those words…

              • Muttonbird …
                22 April 2019 at 11:28 am

                Some people think if you're not screaming rape 20 times a day then you condone it.

                • McFlock …
                  22 April 2019 at 3:07 pm

                  Because minimising the allegations and casting aspersions on the complainants and anyone who agrees with them is <i>totally</i> like " not screaming rape 20 times a day " 🙄

        • Psycho Milt 4.1.3.3
          21 April 2019 at 6:57 pm

          Rape apology groundhog day.

          Facepalm after facepalm. The doco tells how one woman claimed that Assange wouldn't use a condom and pinned her down so he could fuck her without one. The doco maker then spends an inordinate amount of time on the rape apologist meme "The victim's subsequent behaviour doesn't match my expectations of how a victim of sexual violence should behave, therefore I'm implying but carefully not stating explicitly that she's falsely accused this poor chap." Ugly, ugly shit, replicated at length in comments threads on this blog.

          Hat tip for noobs at sex: if sex with you results in women feeling they need to talk to a police officer, ur doin it wrong.

          • greywarshark 4.1.3.3.1
            21 April 2019 at 7:17 pm

            Psycho That is pretty unobjective. I would question the value of either the woman or the documentary maker. I wouldn't be prepared to believe either of them. Then you turn your subjective slant on people here. Unreasonable.

            • Psycho Milt 4.1.3.3.1.1
              21 April 2019 at 8:09 pm

              Do you imagine that whom you believe or disbelieve counts for something outside your own head?

              • greywarshark …
                21 April 2019 at 11:33 pm

                PM

                Vice versa mate.

                • McFlock …
                  21 April 2019 at 11:39 pm

                  Which is why we have courts.

                • Psycho Milt …
                  22 April 2019 at 8:52 am

                  Well, of course. I wouldn't say that if I thought my own beliefs or disbeliefs were significant outside my own head.

                  However, identifying rape apologia when people are peddling it doesn't involve believing or disbelieving anyone, just the ability to parse a sentence and the ability to recognise an argument that's being made.

                  Also, what McFlock said.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 4.1.3.3.2
            21 April 2019 at 7:20 pm

            "Ugly, ugly shit, replicated at length in comments threads on this blog."

            Admire the vision of Assange and others who founded WikiLeaks. The pretence that my on-going appreciation of that vision, and concern over the likely outcome of the current Assange extradition process, makes me a ‘rape apologist’ is perverse. And ugly.

            • Psycho Milt 4.1.3.3.2.1
              21 April 2019 at 8:07 pm

              I haven't noticed you posting rape apologia on this blog. Admittedly, that could simply be inattention on my part – do you feel that that description applies to your comments?

              • Drowsy M. Kram …
                22 April 2019 at 12:00 am

                You might not have noticed. In answer to your question, I have my doubts.

                When McFlock commented that widespread public admiration of Saville, Cosby and Assange had helped them to conceal their sexual offending (OK, alleged sexual offending in Assange's case, but let's not quibble), I felt uneasy. Had my admiration for Assange's achievements clouded my judgement, and (much worse) contributed (in a small way) to his ability to evade trial?

                Most of us probably admire many people (Cosby was a gifted comedian, IMO), and may have on occasion expressed that admiration. If one of these admired people was subsequently revealed to be a monster, would the admirer(s) be cupable?

                I'd prefer that labels such as 'rape apologist' and 'whatever-a-phobe' be applied accurately. IMHO rape apologia labels have been used too frequently for point scoring and in attempts to bolster weak positions or shut down arguments.

                Rape apologia labels have certainly enjoyed extensive use on this blog, and not only in posts and comments regarding Assange. A 'tiny' Assange-focused sample can be found in these posts from 2015: https://thestandard.org.nz/all-apologies/ (332 comments) https://thestandard.org.nz/finally/ (500 comments)

                "I get that you want to talk about an aspect of the Assange situation without talking about rape culture , but until pro-Assange commenters stop using rape apologies to support their arguments, it’s never going to happen."

                Fair enough, but when such terms are 'weaponised', examine motive. The same goes for barbs about mental health, intellectual capacity, etc. etc.

                "Does rape culture, rape apology and rape denial have to be central to every discussion related to Julian Assange. Do you think so? I don’t."

                • McFlock …
                  22 April 2019 at 12:48 am

                  The comments in the "Finally" thread included:<blockquote> ..and one of them was a CIA agent….weird that…honey traps? </blockquote>

                  That looks to me like a spurious denial a rape occurred.

                  Recently, commenters have referred to deliberatley not wearing a condom (against the partner's wishes), pinning someone to the bed, and penetrating a sleeping person (again, without a condom contrary to the person's expressed wishes on safe sex), as "poor sexual etiquette".

                  That looks to me like minimisation of what is legally and ethically rape.

                  To me, spurious denial and minimisation both fit rationally into the description "rape apology"

                  • Drowsy M. Kram …
                    22 April 2019 at 1:42 am

                    If/when the evidence (victim statements, etc.) is presented to a court, then it can be evaluated together with other evidence – hopefully the (alleged) victims will not have to attend the trial(s) (if that's how Swedish courts do things) unless they wish to. The victim accounts are persuasive (I believe them), but what I believe is not legally material.

                    Seems unlikely to me that US interests will let Assange anywhere near a Swedish court prior to extradition to the US, but an arrangment that affords the opportunity to try Assange in Sweden at some point is not out of the question.

                    "That looks to me like minimisation of what is legally and ethically rape."

                    Agreed, the comments you describe fit the criteria for rape apology.

                    Is Assange a rapist? I'd like to know.

                    • McFlock …
                      22 April 2019 at 2:32 am

                      If the Swedes reactivate their case, it's an interesting question of whether it takes precedent over any US extradition case.

                      Assange skipped bail at the end of the extradition proceedings for Sweden, so if there'd been no suspension then he'd just be put on a plane to Stockholm after the absconding charge is dealth with. But the suspension/reactivation maybe means they need to start from scratch.

                      I'm not familiar with any cases where multiple countries have tried to extradite.the same person. Maybe if goes on a first come, first served basis. I dunno.

                      As for wanting to know – he's the one who tried as hard as possible to stop that from going to court. His legal team and supporters are the ones who lied from the start, with claims that the sexual assault charges were "sex by surprise", and that bullshit about orange vs red notices. There's also the discrepancies about what his lawyer was told about Assange leaving Sweden, and how Assange's departure related to being informed about the likely result of a second interview.

                      Personally, I think the CIA and so on sat back in amazement and watched an egotistical jerk completely stuff himself at the height of his global influence and relevance.

                      Is he a rapist in those two instances? In the absence of a trial, all we can do is believe the women. So, probably.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      22 April 2019 at 2:42 am

                      A good many were pretty pleased that the question was out there.

                      The answer is now largely immaterial in the greater scheme, but I'd still like to know – goes to Assange’s personal credibility (cf. WikiLeaks.)

                    • McFlock …
                      22 April 2019 at 3:32 pm

                      Not really: Assange is not wikileaks. That's actually the point: the information is distributed without a bona fide source. It's the reaction to the information that shows its legitimacy.

                      Assange was in contact with Manning, but for all Assange knew, Manning was supplying tainted goods on behalf of the Russians. But the most damaging material was genuine, because the yanks admitted it and the material was unique (ISTR Russia once got caught releasing Call of Duty footage as airstrike footage lol).

                      What goes to wikileaks' credibility are actions like releasing material that was selectively edited, like the Podesta stuff. Whether that was edited by the Russians or by wikileaks (probably too much material for Assange to do it himself), that's the stuff that hurts Wikileaks' credibility. It goes from being an information distributor to being a biased information filter.

                      Assange is just a dude, like anyone else. If he did commit rape, wikileaks could still be a net good (despite some real fails in the last few years, showing bias and endangering people e.g. doxxing women voters in turkey).

                • Psycho Milt …
                  22 April 2019 at 9:02 am

                  Most of us probably admire many people (Cosby was a gifted comedian, IMO), and may have on occasion expressed that admiration. If one of these admired people was subsequently revealed to be a monster, would the admirer(s) be cupable?

                  Nope. The alleged perp may also have done many admirable things and admiring those things isn't rape apology.

                  Rape apologia consists of attempts to minimise the significance of what occurred, to find reasons to excuse the alleged perpetrator or to try and discredit the complainant. Examples of those things appear in the linked documentary and in The Standard's comments threads about Assange.

          • mauī 4.1.3.3.3
            21 April 2019 at 9:00 pm

            Here I was thinking the doco goes over some of the agreed facts of the case, and finds many facets of the allegations raise questions. I think you're confusing common sense with rape apology.

            • McFlock 4.1.3.3.3.1
              21 April 2019 at 9:53 pm

              Well, most of the doco was on wikileaks and the yanks. A portion of the doco was on some of the facts of the case, and the rest was on guys saying women didn't act like they reckon someone who was sexually assaulted would act.

              So you were only a little bit off.

            • Psycho Milt 4.1.3.3.3.2
              21 April 2019 at 10:07 pm

              …many facets of the allegations raise questions.

              The most important of those questions being "If your approach to sexual intercourse results in women feeling the need to attend a police station, is it time to re-think your approach to sexual intercourse?"

              However, the secondary one is only slightly less important: "If you find yourself coming up with reasons why women who've laid a complaint about non-consensual sexual activity shouldn't be believed, is it time to re-think your attitude to consent?"

              • mauī …
                22 April 2019 at 11:41 am

                You're forgetting the reason for visiting the police was for an STD check, and when it came to giving evidence over any assault occurring it was refused.

                We're talking about one disputed incident of non-consensual sex amongst earlier consensual sex before and after. Which means applying a brain to what is alleged, and looking at all the facts around what happened. Something your argument refuses to do.

                • Psycho Milt …
                  22 April 2019 at 4:53 pm

                  You're forgetting the reason for visiting the police was for an STD check, and when it came to giving evidence over any assault occurring it was refused.

                  I'm not forgetting the two women went to see if the police would force Assange to undergo an STD test after he allegedly fucked both of them without a condom in spite of their demand that he use one, no. That's why I suggested that your sexual activities should not leave women feeling the need to visit a police station.

                  We're talking about one disputed incident of non-consensual sex amongst earlier consensual sex before and after.

                  Do you know there's a single word for that weasel phrase "non-consensual sex?" There's a clue in the term "rape apologist." In that one sentence we have two fine examples: minimisation of the alleged crime (not two rapes, just one) and the assumption that prior or subsequent instances of consensual sex rule out the possibility of rape.

                • McFlock …
                  22 April 2019 at 5:54 pm

                  You're forgetting the reason for visiting the police was for an STD check

                  Oh, indeed, whenever I want a piss test or any of my other sexual health needs met, I pop down to the local police station. Because in any developed society, the blue lights show people where they can get the blue pills. [slow gonorrhea clap]

  5. Rosemary McDonald 5
    21 April 2019 at 9:15 am

    Kirsty Johnston again highlights the precarious situation of non ACC disabled New Zealanders in this hard hitting article.

    Limited showers, no meal prep: 'Ruthless' plans to cut disabled care revealed

    An earlier article, published on the 14th March so lost in the aftermath of events on the 15th, describes the difficulty in accessing supports and the relief of one family when the child's disability was accepted by ACC for cover.

    Every hour is questioned' – Advocates say Health Ministry quietly reducing funding for disabled after ruling out big cuts

    I would love to spend the day here trying to argue the case…so many here simply don't or won't accept that the fightback from disability groups to the End of Life Choice Bill (I am not a member of any of these groups btw) is founded in the absolute fact that non ACC disabled are being slowly starved of funding for vital supports….leading to people feeling that they would be better off without this unbearable suffering.

    But I'm busy. Got to get the house ready to sell…need to get enough not only to find a smaller but equally wheelchair friendly house to live in but to also fund vital mobility equipment that we heard this week the agency contracted by the Misery of Health to administer the equipment and modifications budget refuses to fund.

    The Ministry of Health Disability Support Services and the successive governments that have backed them really are a bunch of arseholes.

    • Rosemary McDonald 5.1
      21 April 2019 at 9:20 am

      lprent…This Luddite is struggling a bit with the 'easier' system. Very frustrating hitting 'backspace' to correct and losing all my text. My fault entirely…just thought I'd give you good reason to chuckle at the misery of the technologically challenged.

      Sorry to shout.

    • Kay 5.2
      21 April 2019 at 12:32 pm

      Thanks for the link Rosemary, sobering reading but again, not batting an eyelid anymore. I can recall about 15-20 years ago when CCDHB suddenly decided a whole lot of disabilities overnight no longer were, at least not when it came to qualifying for any home based support out of them.

      What I will never understand is the general logic behind all of this. Is it a case of the individual agencies MoH/DHBs/ACC/MSD only thinking about their own budgets? Why can't they do a serious holistic cost benefit analysis that will inevitably show that cutbacks in one area is just going to increase the cost to another agency, plus extra due to avoidable deterioration. I'm sure even the most supportive general public would object to avoidable cost if they knew it was happening.

      Oh I forgot- bureacracy = logic + reason , ha ha, silly me, what was I thinking…

      • Rosemary McDonald 5.2.1
        21 April 2019 at 12:45 pm

        I emailed Kirsty Johnston earlier this morning and asked if it were possible to see the referenced documents, and bless her, within a few minutes they landed in my inbox. I see she has now put most of them as a footer to the Herald article.

        Those not familiar with how these pricks think should really read their way through them…reminding themselves every few minutes that it is actual live human beings with sometimes total dependency on hands on help from others that are being discussed.

        You and I Kay don't need to read them….because we know…but reading them is reassuring as it confirms our suspicions are well founded.

        As a footnote to Kirsty this morning I wrote, ' The cost overruns are due to burdensome bureaucracy and the vile
        stupidity of having two state funded and administrated systems
        providing the same service for those with permanent impairments.

        We are simply not a big enough country to be running two systems.'

        Which is saying pretty much along the same lines as you.

        Hey, Kay, we should apply for positions as Advisors! laugh

        • Kay 5.2.1.1
          21 April 2019 at 12:56 pm

          I like the advisor idea, only if they pay me under the table…that small matter of one can't avoid declaring taxable income to Winz wink

          On the other had, I don't think their poor little bureaucratic minds could cope with us!

        • Brigid 5.2.1.2
          21 April 2019 at 10:26 pm

          I have read some of them. Makes me sick.

          Bastards. I know a bit first hand the treatment disabled and elderly get from Waikato Disability Support Services.

          • Rosemary McDonald 5.2.1.2.1
            22 April 2019 at 1:04 am

            Brigid …the treatment disabled and elderly get from Waikato Disability Support Services.

            Yes. DSL. One of the more interesting and ultimately frustrating exercises my partner and I had to go through in the past few years was requesting and receiving his file from DSL. I'd like to think you'd be surprised at the level of incompetence we found…but sadly, you won't be. We learned a few years ago to conduct all communications with them via email…really quite frightening that they are happy to lay their failings out in writing for all to see.

      • Sacha 5.2.2
        21 April 2019 at 1:01 pm

        Funding in narrow silos is a well-known problem with our state system. It does not make sense even on the narrowest cost-benefit terms. And that is without considering the huge extra pain and wasted energy.

    • adam 5.3
      21 April 2019 at 1:08 pm

      I was thinking if this is the new way of doing things with kindness from our government, Then I'd really hate to see what it means if they weren't following that doctrine.

      That said, when you come to the table tethered to neo-liberalism economics, and the wholesale commodification of human beings – we can't really expect anything less.

      • Sacha 5.3.1
        21 April 2019 at 1:19 pm

        It looks like the Minister/s in charge may have quashed this behaviour, probably with promises of Budget increases next month. Fixing the inhuman culture in some managers will take more than that.

        • Rosemary McDonald 5.3.1.1
          21 April 2019 at 2:27 pm

          Perusing the emails Sacha, it seems there are still a few long term incumbents participating in this exercise. Names that have been attached to emails and mentioned in dispatches since just about forever. So, still aways to go methinks.

          I did email (and I'm pretty sure a whole heap of other stirrers did too wink ) JAG a while back after looking at her diary and seeing who in the disability sector she was meeting with. No! No! I wrote, '…don't confine your discussions to those who have been 'meeting with ministers' over the past 10years or so'….especially those from the Miserly and NZDSN.

          Clearly it worked. /sarc.

    • alwyn 5.4
      21 April 2019 at 2:41 pm

      How could you possibly bring this article to peoples attention? After all you wouldn't want anyone to think that our kind caring Government won't do anything to look after disabled people. It wouldn't go with the image of a PM they are pushing so hard would it?

      When I was reading the article there were a couple of things that stood out. The first was that the spending had risen in the last 5 years but we couldn't afford it any longer and that about $100 million had to be saved. The second was that the Minister talking about it was Julie Anne Genter.

      "Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter said decisions about who received support were made by the ministry, and it had not been directed to cut funding by ministers." Well she would claim that it had nothing to do with her wouldn't she?

      "it had increased funding to the $1.268 billion disability support sector each year for five years, but could no do so longer." Instead they want to cut out, by stealth $100 million/year. See https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12223776

      So we had steady increases from National and a clamp down on the expenditure by the current lot.

      Where have I seen this Minister and this amount of money recently? Oh yes, in the Dom/Post we had a story about how the Government, pushed along by Genter, are going to spend that much money on a walk cum cycle way between Ngauranga and Petone. That is about 6 km and goes from nowhere to nowhere.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/111987243/nzta-approves-funding-for-shared-walkway-and-cycleway-between-petone-and-ngauranga

      So she can find a $100 million to allow about 50 cyclists a day, in summer, to pedal along the side of the harbour. There will also be about 50 pedestrians a year doing the same, at least by my estimate. Lets face it. It is about a 2 hour walk and about all you can do at Ngauranga is to be collected by someone in a car or spend another hour walking into the city. In winter of course you might get 50 cyclists a week.

      Well so much for spending scarce money on people who need it. Genter's hobbies are much more important.

    • Macro 5.5
      21 April 2019 at 2:45 pm

      Thanks Rosemary for that Link – I heard about it independently this morning.

      The clear take away from this is that our government needs to raise more revenue to fund the on-going costs of providing services to NZers, and it needs to do it now.

      The great tax giveaway by the last govt was always going to be at the expense of those within NZ who were the most vulnerable; and so it proves to be. We cannot even implement a CGT in this country – whereas such a tax is almost universal world wide – because in our heart of hearts, NZ baby boomers, and Gen Xers, are by and large so greedy, that any suggestion we might have to fork out a bit of our "hard earned cash" to help others (or even ourselves in later life) is an anathema.

      • alwyn 5.5.1
        21 April 2019 at 3:13 pm

        You did see that the money for this work had risen every year for the last 5 years didn't you? In other words a National Government increased the budget each year and it is only the current mob who are cutting it. But you don't want to believe that do you so you will just ignore the facts of the matter..

        • Rosemary McDonald 5.5.1.1
          21 April 2019 at 4:14 pm

          Alwyn…I'll be very pissed off if I have to spend precious getting the house ready to sell time finding the documents to back up your claim that National increased the disability spend. Prove it you idle so and so!

          As others will tell you…the increase by no means matched the increase in demand and population.

          In fact…if I recall it might actually have amounted to less per capita…

          • Macro 5.5.1.1.1
            21 April 2019 at 5:59 pm

            if I recall it might actually have amounted to less per capita

            yes Rosemary it did

      • Rosemary McDonald 5.5.2
        21 April 2019 at 4:10 pm

        Unfortunately Macro it is not just about the money. It is Labour, way back when Annette King birthed the Public Health and Disability Act 2000 who gave the Ministry of Health responsibility for the care of non ACC permanently foobarred. The Ministry of Health promptly contracted out every single aspect of Disability Support Services, including the Needs Assessment and Service Coordination. MOH DSS set policy only…and a pretty poor job they've done of that.

        The Misery (because the PHDAct says it has to) 'consults' with stakeholders…who almost inevitably have had some financial relationship with the Ministry (providers, NGOs, 'charities' representing the interests of disabled folk and carers and the like) who have, unsurprisingly been inclined to go along with policy so as not to lose their funding. Snouts in the trough and all rather incestuous.

        No wonder we now have this mutant spawn.

        MOH bureaucrats are amoung the highest paid in the Public Service and for many years have been lead by a some rather odd types.

        It is the bureaucrats that are the biggest waste of money…

        • Macro 5.5.2.1
          21 April 2019 at 5:37 pm

          Actually Rosemary by world standards NZ's Health Bureaucracy is one of the most efficient – ranking 2nd in the world behind Australia.

          as you can see in this chart here:

          https://www.commonwealthfund.org/sites/default/files/images/charts/___media_images_interactives_and_data_chart_maps_chartcart_report_2017_mirror_mirror_image_02.jpg

          Our health outcomes are not so good and this is due to the fact that our health sector has been consistently underfunded for years. So much so that our mental health services are almost non existent in some parts of the country. How does this happen? Because government have over the years pandered to middle class voters who demand more and more tax cuts and yes Labour has some blame to share on this but the past decade has been the result of Bill English's largess with tax cuts to buy the votes from the voting public which quite frankly the country could not afford. Labour have been left with a huge govt deficit and in order to gain sufficient backing inorder to not put off support you will remember that Labour and the Greens signed up to a "Fiscal Responsibility Bill" this has effectively hamstrung the current administration from raising further revenue by way of increasing tax take and the result is just where we are now.

          You and I can rail as much as we like! but until there is more money flowing into the governments coffers the situation is only going to stay the same or deteriorate as more elderly become a burden on the Health system.

          • Rosemary McDonald 5.5.2.1.1
            21 April 2019 at 6:01 pm

            Macro…lookitthat…yet another measuring tool!

            However, when you look at what our own SSC found when doing the 2017 Performance Improvement Framework Review …there were serious concerns with the upper levels of management at the Misery.

            In fact overall..its a pretty dismal read.

            http://www.ssc.govt.nz/sites/all/files/pif-review-health-dec2017.pdf

            So if we're 2nd in the world for 'efficiency'….?

            • Macro 5.5.2.1.1.1
              21 April 2019 at 10:16 pm

              Well that's the whole point Rosemary – if our Health System is considered pretty efficient, but we are still failing in many areas, ( we fall to 7th in health outcomes and access, and 8th for equity for instance) then it has to be something else. And as you have pointed out, while funding has increased in dollar terms, it certainly hasn't kept up with the increasing needs of a growing and ageing population. This as I have pointed out is the major constraint on our failing Health system – we have a very good model – one of the best in the world – but it is not being funded adequately – you can't keep on squeezing a lemon and expecting to get more from it. And the constraint on funding falls directly back on the ability of the government to raise funds. National increased the debt level thru borrowing to fund such things as Health and Education to around $62 B NZ.

              https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/government-debt

              But you have to pay that back at some point. And they were forced to do this because they gave away so much in tax "relief" to people who in most cases didn't really need it.

          • Sacha 5.5.2.1.2
            21 April 2019 at 10:09 pm

            Is there a separate reckoning of disability support services, rather than health? Not the same thing. Most of our health system is indeed efficient and well-managed compared with many other countries.

            • Macro 5.5.2.1.2.1
              22 April 2019 at 1:26 pm

              Yes there are NGO's that provide support services and they source funding both from Govt and elsewhere, but govt funding for disability services is primarily channeled through the Ministry of Health.

              https://www.health.govt.nz/your-health/services-and-support/disability-services

              • Sacha …
                22 April 2019 at 8:05 pm

                Support services are via MoH, yes, but other NZ disability funding cuts across many agencies – all adds up to over $3b/yr. In some countries it’s funded and delivered differently, including via local bodies.

                Does the Commonwealth Fund report on disability separately from health?

    • greywarshark 5.6
      21 April 2019 at 5:53 pm

      Rosemay McD & Macro

      All the best with the house price. The pictures I see have all the lights on as it gets to late afternoon – makes the place look welcoming.

      And there is the idea of baking bread (Not to be confused with breaking bad) – my favourite smell is buns with cumin seed sprinkled on them.

      Efficiency and distribution – two different aspects of health budget Macro.
      And does that efficiency actually measure what counts.
      If it is devised by USA sources even WHO maybe they have a sweet spot for high salaries for the top people as we have in NZ also.

  6. francesca 6
    21 April 2019 at 9:55 am

    aj.
    Thats an illuminating doco
    Its incredible to see how media coverage has changed from supporting Assange back in 2010, when the Swedish allegations were widely viewed with suspicion, to where we’re at now with infantile reports of shit -on-the -walls etc and kitty litter, all designed to engender disgust

    Since 2012 there has been an extensive campaign of character assassination and journalists have almost universally joined in a hideous blood lust lynching spree to mock, deride and shame one of their own , and thus erode any support for Assange in his life and death struggle for freedom , his and our own

    Lets not forget that Ecuador granted him political asylum, not asylum from rape charges

    At any rate there was absolutely no reason why Sweden couldn’t have pursued the investigation and charged Assange in absentia, if they were so adamant they couldn’t travel to the UK.After all for over a year and a half, Assange was under house arrest and had made himself available.

    https://sputniknews.com/europe/201603061035874931-sweden-russian-national-crime/

    As far as the bail jumping goes , his 550 or so days under house arrest , replete with electronic ankle bracelets would surely equal any actual jail time.

    Anyone who doesn’t smell the strong reek of geopolitics here has a serious case of anosmia

    • aj 6.1
      21 April 2019 at 10:27 am

      If the USA investigated war crimes with the same venom they pursue whistle blowers they may regain some moral authority. As it is they have none.

    • Observer Tokoroa 6.2
      22 April 2019 at 1:43 am

      A useful stand in

      Francesca, I fail to see why you do not become a stand in for Julian Assange. He has nice ways with women. He is adept at hacking – although he sometimes avoids it in order to hang the blame for stealing information on weaker persons.

      He sees himself as the one person in the world who can decide the future of the USA or Australia or Timbuctoo.

      He has methods of avoiding police requests to attend Court. On top of which he has massive support from people who believe in the theft of private information.

      According to reports within Turkey, he holds virtually complete personal information on nearly every Turkey Female.

      (Do you happen to know if John Key and Mr English have handed over all private documents of NZ Citizens to the Government. Key and English did a lot of shuffling.

  7. Andre 7
    21 April 2019 at 9:58 am

    Well yes, the idea that it was "total exoneration" was always "total bullshit". Looks like someone showed the jellybaby Joffrey the picture-book edition of the Mueller report, and the dummy got spat into orbit.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/20/politics/donald-trump-mueller-report-anger/index.html

    • joe90 7.1
      21 April 2019 at 11:54 am

      After a lifetime punching down, tRump has absolutely no idea about how to defend himself. As with most bullies, the prospect of an opponent fighting back terrifies him and his obvious weakness undermines the feigned machismo that his base laps up. Consequently, he's reduced to pissing and moaning and venting his spleen on those closest to him. That's all he's got.

      btw, his legal woes run at 5,200 and 300 ±

  8. Rosemary McDonald 8
    21 April 2019 at 9:59 am

    …and just because we all need a laugh now and again.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76OlqSd_5k8

  9. Dennis Frank 9
    21 April 2019 at 12:06 pm

    Know any trapped angry Labour voters? Tell them they ain't alone. Recommend stoicism because nothing can be done. Tell them to look on the bright side of life, where an endless supply of helpful platitudes can be found. We have a Labour-led government, for instance.

    "Labour had to choose between upsetting their own voters or upsetting the centrist voters who hate the thought of a CGT. Labour chose to burn their own voters. Labour would know their own supporters have nowhere to go apart from the Greens, and what is that if not a vote for a left-wing government led by Labour anyway? Angry Labour voters are trapped."

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12223775

    • Stuart Munro. 9.1
      21 April 2019 at 12:47 pm

      It is better to be an enemy than a friend to Labour; If you are their enemy, they will buy you, if you are their friend they will sell you.

    • Craig H 9.2
      21 April 2019 at 1:52 pm

      As a long time Labour voter, I don't care whether they implement CGT or not, and Labour campaigned at the 2017 election on a working group, not CGT.

    • Incognito 9.3
      21 April 2019 at 2:30 pm

      The Pyramid of Powerlessness:

      4,956,975 residents can do nothing unless they can vote.

      3,298,009 eligible voters can do nothing unless they do vote.

      2,630,173 voters can do nothing unless they vote for the winning coalition.

      120 MPs can do nothing unless they are in Government.

      63 CoL MPs can do nothing unless they are Minister.

      26 Ministers can do nothing unless they are PM.

      1 PM can do nothing unless …

      • Dennis Frank 9.3.1
        21 April 2019 at 2:46 pm

        [Unless] it is god's will. Or, following Hobbes, the will of the leviathan of which we are all part:

        "The state of nature is the "war of every man against every man," in which people constantly seek to destroy one another. This state is so horrible that human beings naturally seek peace, and the best way to achieve peace is to construct the Leviathan through social contract." https://www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/leviathan/summary/

        Internet culture wars are reviving the social darwinism described in the early part of the quote, whereas MMP is our current form of the co-constructed latter design.

        • Incognito 9.3.1.1
          21 April 2019 at 3:54 pm

          So, it is our belief (!) that it is the Circle of Powerlessness, which is even worse than a pyramid. Or just (!) a human (social) construct to keep maintain status quo?

          Where does the power of/for change come from?

          Does power come from strength or strength from power?

          Why do we feel weak and fearful?

          These are rhetorical questions, BTW.

        • greywarshark 9.3.1.2
          21 April 2019 at 6:02 pm

          I don't like grandiose statements like 'The state of nature is the "war of every man against every man". It seems self-serving warping of words to excuse some shitty behaviour that is being rationalised.

          • Incognito 9.3.1.2.1
            21 April 2019 at 8:26 pm

            Leviathan was apparently written in 1651 and we have moved on to neo-liberalism:

            The state of Nature is every Man by himself, for himself. The State must stay out of personal affairs and never interfere with the Free Market. There’s no such thing as Society, only individual men and women and their families. There’s no such thing as Social Contract, only the Law, which must be upheld by the State to safeguard Property and Capital of law-abiding citizens.

      • Peter 9.3.2
        21 April 2019 at 6:16 pm

        Easily fixed. Don’t let the3,298,009 eligible voters vote, especially the 2,630,173 voters who don’t vote for the coalition. Then none of them will be disillusioned and disgruntled.

        • Incognito 9.3.2.1
          21 April 2019 at 8:33 pm

          I hear you! If democracy no longer sparks joy we should get rid of it and replace it with something better.

          BTW, 1,165,150 votes were for the opposition parties and 1,305,333 for the CoL.

        • greywarshark 9.3.2.2
          21 April 2019 at 11:26 pm

          You're a sour one Peter. The take you have on comments must reflect your regular viewpoint, which doesn't appear constructive.

  10. Sancho_Panza 10
    21 April 2019 at 2:02 pm

    Hey lprent: the new system works !!!

  11. Reality 11
    21 April 2019 at 3:23 pm

    Can someone explain exactly how our PM could have got a CGT passed without Cabinet approval? In other words, without NZF's agreement. It is an MMP government not a one party government (in other words an authoritarian dictatorship). It amazes me that people here think Jacinda can accede to whatever is on their Wishlist. Life is not like that and there always has to be compromise. Instead of moaning about what hasn't or can't be done, think at what has been done. Nothing will ever be perfect and there will always be much more to be done. From my limited knowledge surely a CGT would be very expensive to implement and operate and would be a gold mine for lawyers and accountants. And as they say about universal super, it is straightforward and less expensive to operate, rather than what a means tested super would be.

    I am proud of our PM and her achievements.

  12. joe90 12
    21 April 2019 at 4:06 pm

    tRrump insisted on bilateral trade negotiations because he thinks it gives him the whiphand, and then complains when his supposed trading partner two-times him with other nations. Man's an idiot.

    https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1119589161776947200

    TOKYO — America will not let its agricultural exporters be "hurt" by Japanese deals that currently offer better terms to other trade partners, U.S. Ambassador to Japan William Hagerty told Nikkei on Wednesday.

    Hagerty cited Japan's economic partnership agreement with the European Union and the revamped Trans-Pacific Partnership, which both took effect in recent months, lowering tariffs on a wide range of goods. "By implementing these agreements before addressing our bilateral trade relationship, Japan is effectively redistributing market share away from its strongest ally, the United States," he said.

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/Interview/US-seeks-level-playing-field-in-Japan-trade-talks-ambassador-says

  13. joe90 13
    21 April 2019 at 6:36 pm

    Sir Dave rings the bell.

  14. marty mars 14
    21 April 2019 at 6:57 pm

    So bad – the haters keep hating and innocent people keep being murdered.

    Six bombs have been detonated at three churches and three hotels frequented by tourists in Sri Lanka, authorities say.

    At least 50 people have been killed and 280 more injured in the Easter Sunday bombings around 8.45am local time, according to Sri Lanka police.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/112184313/at-least-20-dead-after-easter-bombings-in-sri-lanka

  15. greywarshark 15
    21 April 2019 at 9:57 pm

    Sounds pretty right.

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2019/keynote/autocrats-face-rising-resistance

    Unlike traditional dictators, today’s would-be autocrats typically emerge from democratic settings. Most pursue a two-step strategy for undermining democracy: first, scapegoat and demonize vulnerable minorities to build popular support; then, weaken the checks and balances on government power needed to preserve human rights and the rule of law, such as an independent judiciary, a free media, and vigorous civic groups. Even the world’s established democracies have shown themselves vulnerable to this demagoguery and manipulation.

    Autocratic leaders rarely solve the problems that they cite to justify their rise to power, but they do create their own legacy of abuse. At home, the unaccountable government that they lead becomes prone to repression, corruption, and mismanagement. Some claim that autocrats are better at getting things done, but as they prioritize perpetuating their own power, the human cost can be enormous, such as the hyperinflation and economic devastation in once oil-rich Venezuela, the spree of extrajudicial killings as part of the “drug war” in the Philippines, or China’s mass detention of upwards of 1 million Turkic Muslims, primarily Uyghurs.

  16. cleangreen 16
    23 April 2019 at 8:24 am

    smiley Todays viewing of RNZ, TV one + 'Nubs hub' showed no care for concerns about the looming climate change disaster that awaits us all.

    Pathetic display of our own Dr 'scrooge" grant Robisin claiming "we cant do everything at once, – it will take at least three terms".

    He is an idiot as the sea is comming now to claim the coastal areas and will destroy all lives and properties well before his magic time of 9 years or more to change direction.

    Shallow man that must be sacked for his wreckless lack of urgency..

  17. Eco Maori 17
    23 April 2019 at 8:31 am

    Kia ora Newshub.

    Grant its all very well putting laws on social media so long as those laws don't stop free speach there is a big difference between frees speech and Hate speech I know that the state servants want to shut eco Maori down . The big tech companies have to much power to be pushed around to much anyway.

    Kiwi buy skeem sounds good but I will wait and see how it goes the Crown keeps part of the value of the house so people can have a small $10. 000 deposit .

    With Sri Lanka what a crying shame I didn't get time to edit last night I don't no exactly what going on there but it's a power struggle between religious factions there is no need we are all HUMANS

    That old landfill down south that is being washed out to sea its is just the tip of the ice berger there will be more of those situations happening in the near future .

    I'm running on a treadmill for half hour a day for the rest of my life the sandflys keeps blocking my music to try and stop my exercise system they don't want Eco Maori to live a minute longer YEA RIGHT I will get a USB stick and put my music on that try and block that muppets.

    Mark the reason Earic is sitting across from you is the Thunder and lightning of ECO MAORI .

    With the 20 years ago Colombia desaster I say we need to value love more love your nabour love you self love the wild life love the future love our past tipuna ansesters You see the way things are Europeans treat love as a emotion that is suppressed I had a friend who was crying out for love from his mother and father but they didn't get it I was to young to get it he was European and wealthy he passed by his own hands he was my best friend he just needed to loved that is what I see now when I look back on things. I tell my children I love them when ever I can to support there WAIRUA even when they piss me off.

    Amda the squirrels were quite cute hope they have a good life.

    I agree Sri Lanka has been hit hard by tsunami and now that desaster and there tourists economy is going to be negatively effected . Ka kite ano P.S Ma te wa

  18. Eco Maori 18
    23 April 2019 at 12:25 pm

    Whanau there is one substance that is the scrounge of some tangata whenua O Atoearoa here are some of the phenomenon linked to this poison. 1

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/101231280/fact-check-disparities-between-mori-and-pkeh

    Well that link shows a few stats that are linked to colonialism and the substance. 2

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/10/maori-over-represented-in-prisons-due-to-colonisation-report.amp.html

    Its a crying shame what I see happening to my WHANAU. 3

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/10/maori-over-represented-in-prisons-due-to-colonisation-report.amp.html

    I wish I could do more to help our Mokopuna but I'm battleing to keep my immediate whanau and Mokopuna SAFE.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/07/29/169208/deafening-silence-on-racial-wealth-gap

    Money big money is spent on this shit it is causing a collapse of Maori Mana and taking out a lot of Maori leader once they try it some are hooked up on the shit for life. That substance is PEE crack up A.

    WEll not from were Im looking at my WHANAU dropping out of the system some mite think it's a crack up but NOT FUCKEN ECO MAORI.

    https://youtu.be/fKopy74weus

  19. Eco Maori 19
    23 April 2019 at 1:20 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute

    https://youtu.be/jNZcf8WtBiY

    You see whanau it's the tamariki /children who suffer the most from war from suppression from all the hate that is being served up around the world the tamariki suffering in silence PEE is the same I have said who is pushing that shit and that is the truth

    • SHG 19.1
      23 April 2019 at 2:24 pm

      <blockquote>You see whanau it's the tamariki /children who suffer the most from war </blockquote>

      Yeah, nah, pretty sure it's the servicepeople getting shot up and blown up and killed and maimed who have it the worst.

  20. Eco Maori 20
    23 April 2019 at 2:03 pm

    Whanau we have to drop old RARU RARU we have to learn to forgive but not forget. Alot of these RARU RARU were from a time when our tipuna were in charge so Eco Maori says they should be passed on into the back of our minds.

    Whanau we have to help each other we have to Tau toko other Maori first and formost not put them down don't shit on OUR OWN help our leaders lead and grow Maori Mana don't behave like eels tuna in a bucket and keep pulling our leaders back down there ladders of Life MAORIDOM need leaders and we need to look after them ourselves.

    As you can see from my post that the state system is not doing Maori any favours it is actually tying both of our feet together limiting our climb up our ladder of life Maori needs to build a big Maunga for our Mokopuna future because times are only going to get HARDER is what ECO MAORI sees

    Ka kite ano.

    https://youtu.be/FM7MFYoylVs

  21. Eco Maori 21
    23 April 2019 at 2:17 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

    https://youtu.be/FotCW5OIFZc

    This is a better waiata for the above post

  22. Eco Maori 22
    23 April 2019 at 6:43 pm

    Kia ora Newshub.

    Wow those helicopter rescue operators must have been having fun I know how rough Tawhirirmate can be down there on the Auckland island . When I was last down there I lost a friend he was a skipper dragged over board with his fish gear he was trying to recover $50.000 worth.

    That's cool that the students got to get there temporary NZ passport back Eco Maori is not against imagination but when it displaces the local tangata mahi that pisses me off like what happened in the dairy industry .

    Aotearoa has to adapt to the bigger ships and cruise ships bigger ships are more efficient and will burn less carbon that's good for the environment and the way of the future .

    Its about time that more of the truth comes out about Boeing planes faults the truth is power it shows no one is to big to be held accountable .

    The tornado water spouts in the Haraki Golf shows how much power a beautiful glory Tawhirirmate HAS.

    Happy birthday day to the young fella.

    All the best to the expecting couple.

    The Kaikoura earthquake as a good one its good to see students learning about Tangaroa and his beautiful creatures we could get a big earthquake like that anytime

    Ka kite ano