Open Mike 21/05/2018

130 comments on “Open Mike 21/05/2018 ”

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1. cleangreen 1

   21 May 2018 at 7:12 am

   National leader the clueless Simon Bridges said to Duncan Garner this AM show ” that it is time we stopped the blame game”.

   Shit i was blown away since he has been as a rabbid dog since september against every movbe labour/NZF/Greens have said and made so he alongside SS Joyce ‘fathered the harte camopaign against any oppositiion to their Neo-conservative policies and ‘sell & rort’.

   We will see if he sticks to his words this time , but I am not confident he has the smarts to finaklly stop his ranting. it’s in his DNA sadly.
   • Gabby 1.1

     21 May 2018 at 8:27 am

     The Blame National game, is what he means. Slick doesn’t like that game.
     • tc 1.1.1

       21 May 2018 at 9:18 am

       Slick’s probably waking up to the reasons why Shonky, Bingles, Coleman, Ryall, Power, Parata etc are all long gone after playing their roles in effectively strip mining NZ for 3 terms.

       Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy, watch your back buddy as you’re job isn’t to act all sorry and sympathetic it’s to maintain the facade of neo liberal BS with nationals media mates.
     • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2

       21 May 2018 at 11:48 am

       National never like it when the damage that they cause is pointed out in no uncertain terms.
2. DB 2

   21 May 2018 at 7:21 am

   Interesting article on BS jobs this morning:

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12053320

   “Online advertising creators aren’t alone in the struggle with meaninglessness among white-collar workers in the marketing, communications and media industry.”

   So I did the survey at the end of the article (is your job BS) to find > 1/3 of respondents consider their job BS. This is a staggering number of folks potentially caught in an existential dilemma.

   Meaning (in life) might be derived from a number of sources (e.g. community, religion, parenting…) other than work. But doing meaningless s*** day-in day-out has its toll. Humans have an inherent need to contribute and belong (and be praised for it – heap that praise wherever it’s deserved). When we remove folks ability to meaningfully contribute the fallout can be severe…

   Mummies boys become school shooters
   Reporters become petty little meme graspers
   Leaders become disenfranchised and corrupt
   Everyone gets shriller, more determined to be heard (significant)

   I posit that the majority of social and mainstream media is utterly pointless. That engaging in it causes the viewer the same existential angst as the content creators suffer creating it.

   So how do we counter existential angst (life is BS):

   Plant some trees. Solve a problem. Clean your house. Grow a garden. Feed someone hungry. Raise children. Teach. Praise good works. Provide emotional support to your fellows. Spend the day in the service of others. Connect.

   We’ve got a planet needs saving, so roll your bloody sleeves up!

   ‘Find a purpose in life worthy of supporting a life’ – Nietzsche.
   • Robert Guyton 2.1

     21 May 2018 at 9:03 am

     “I posit that the majority of social and mainstream media is utterly pointless. That engaging in it causes the viewer the same existential angst as the content creators suffer creating it.”
     Addictive though, isn’t it 🙂
     Nice comment though, DB; “existential angst” is going to be/is the big challenge – we can’t save our souls/the neighbourhood if we have despaired.
     • OnceWasTim 2.1.1

       21 May 2018 at 2:40 pm

       Existential Angst. No doubt there’s a team from Price Waterhouse working on a ‘risk management’ strategy (going forward).
   • Sabine 2.2

     21 May 2018 at 9:54 am

     Mummies boys become shooters?

     Again, no dad was involved in the making of the shooter?
     • DB 2.2.1

       21 May 2018 at 10:08 am

       Certainly not my intention to point at maternal influence as the issue. Though an established phrase – it is also a trite (and somewhat sexist) phrase so thanks for highlighting that.

       I was thinking of those youths who are mollycoddled to the point they do nothing for themselves (and/or others) and so feel insignificant.
       • Sabine 2.2.1.1

         21 May 2018 at 10:41 am

         I think we really need to look at this differently.

         You have a certain part of the population in the US – where most of the school shooting occur – that believes might makes right.
         So its very easy for me to see how children who grow up with this mindset in their families and communities would equally believe that they too can use might to right any slight that they may have suffered.

         as the herald shouted today the last shooter – a 17 year old – had to grab a gun and defend his manhood cause some young girl did not want to be his date’girlfriend or what ever and refused him his ‘right’ to sex.

         Men are afraid that women laugh at them
         women are afraid that men kill them, even the young men.

         As for the youth being mollycoddled, that is again not their fault, its the fault of our society.
         In our society, we the adults in the room, have literally taken away any rights and freedoms we had when we were children and replaced it with sugary drinks, sugary food, electronic gadgets and uppers or downers if we can’t manage our hyped up, over entertained and under challenged children.

         Adults really need to stop complaining about the Youth. The Youth neither makes the rules nor do they get asked.

         I liked your comment about people having lost sense of belonging, sense of self, sense of value and replaced their lost identity with gadgets of no importance. But it is us who are teaching these values as a community to our young ones.

         As for feeling insignificant, why not. Why not admit that in the large scheme of things we are insignificant, no more important that one single grain of sand on a beach. There is freedom in knowing that. 🙂
         • DB 2.2.1.1.1

           21 May 2018 at 11:27 am

           These children are in some way reflections (feedback) of broader society. Some of the blame might be heaped upon so called leadership, in many roles (Govt, Caregivers, Church, Community) – but…

           We possess the ability to discern things for ourselves too. These shooters are indeed responsible for their actions. Just not entirely so as they’re youths.

           I see social media playing a large role in all of this. School shooters (as a common occurrence) are modern phenomenon and on the increase. The correlation between mental illness and too much social media has already been suggested – but ‘controversy’ remains – (read, largest corporates in the world sell phones and computers).

           And guns.

           Meanwhile, they’re looking for an ‘elusive common element’ in school shootings.

           I agree the understanding of one’s own insignificance in ‘the grand scheme of things’ can be liberating. We’re not there yet.

           Much of mankind is insane with their own egos. Media magnify it all.

           Significance is not about being a pop star. It is about being there for yourself, your family, and your community.
           • Sabine 2.2.1.1.1.1

             21 May 2018 at 12:23 pm

             the children of today are the sum of our society. Full stop. they are birthed by adults (and children), they are educated by adults, they are surrounded by adults, and choices are made for them by adults. it is adults that run this world and its about time that adults own up to this.

             Once we are of a certain age we are indeed able to discern things for ourself.
             Most seventeen years olds are judged by society to not be able to do this hence why they are considered children who have no right to vote, to drink, to drive a car (obviously NZ is different ), and can only have sex with people of their age ( again depending on age of consent), can only enter into limited contracts etc etc etc . Unless of course we want to reduce the age to seventeen or earlier where one gets full autonomy of ones life and is legally considered an adult.

             The ‘elusive common element’ in school shooting is generally the very easy access to weapons (even if the shooter do not have the legal age to legally posses a weapon in their own name), toxic masculinity that stipulates that men have to be of a certain type in order to be considered a real man, a society that puts power above all else, and a population brainwashed into believing that putting the bible and prayer into school will bring god to people and thus everyone will go back to singing kumbaya.

             The media is a tool, it has as much power over you as you give it. Literally the only reason Hoskins still has a bullhorn is because people discuss him and his regular turds that he lays out for shits n giggles. The media is neither fake nor true, depending if they are left or right leaning they will report on the same shit with their inherent biases.
             We either are able to discern things for us or not.

             this is not about being a celebrity or stuff, this is simply about us admitting first our own shortcomings before we expect others to change.

             And its time for adults to admit that we fucked things up royally. And we are continuing to fuck things up royally by wanting to preserve what we have rather then starting to share what we have so that our limited resource last longer. And the kids know this. They know that they are fucked. They know they will most likely never have what their parents and grandparents had, a job for life (or at least a full time contract), an affordable house, affordable healthcare, affordable dental care, nature that is healhty and abundant, lakes and rivers to swim in etc etc etc.

             Significance is simply there to stroke our ego. We are not significant. We are just passing through, passengers on a ride to nowhere. And it is time that us adults admit this too. Lest some seventeen year old with access to weapons and weapon making abilities will blow you and me to smithereens simply because they can, and because other then thoughts and prayers nothing else is offered by the adults in the room.
             • DB …

               21 May 2018 at 1:01 pm

               I wasn’t actually disagreeing with you and tried hard to be respectful of what you were trying to say.

               Now you sound ready to go on a weapons rampage. Cos ‘we’ (thanks for including me) fucked things up royally. And if we don’t ‘admit it’, some 17 year old with a weapon…

               Take a deep breath. Maybe try that meditation you allude to.
             • OnceWasTim …

               21 May 2018 at 2:51 pm

               “the children of today are the sum of our society”.
               Very true, but it’s an increasingly ‘mediated’ society.

               And I agree it’s time for adults to admit we fucked things up royally ….etc.
               Sad thing is, we continue to do so, as you say.

               Is it arrogance? or complacency? or laziness” or what?
               • OnceWasTim …

                 21 May 2018 at 2:55 pm

                 Actually, much of that increasingly ‘mediated society’ is technologically and ‘virtually’ driven rather than by human metaphysics
         • Cinny 2.2.1.1.2

           21 May 2018 at 1:24 pm

           This bit…. “I liked your comment about people having lost sense of belonging, sense of self, sense of value and replaced their lost identity with gadgets of no importance. But it is us who are teaching these values as a community to our young ones. ”

           Strongly agree with you and it’s up to all of us to try and change that and make a difference, doesn’t matter if you have children or not, everyone can help.

           For example, am currently working on the school production, this year have asked for an assistant, I asked for a student who was not doing that great in ‘core’ subject areas, I wanted someone who fidgets in class (fidgeting is a sign of creative interests) that might not have the best home life.
           Deputy Principal knew exactly where I was coming from and my assistant has been amazing, will get her a gift after the production for her efforts. Have been giving her loads of well deserved praise, my goal with this girl is to build her up and give her something to be proud about.
           • ianmac 2.2.1.1.2.1

             21 May 2018 at 2:44 pm

             You can kill initiative with praise Cinny unless it is an acknowledgement for task completed. We have a team of youths working on a 7 day project for us as part of their training. When it is finished I will provide a barbecue and heartfelt thanks for a good job well done and especially an observation on the way in which they cooperate with each other. Otherwise I note that “that is an accurate join” or “must be difficult to measure that,” or that step will be a help to our movement.”
             There are many myths about praise and much research, but it is hard to not praise because that is what we have been told is good.
             • Molly …

               21 May 2018 at 4:16 pm

               Alfie Kohn, is a good author to read about praise and incentives, particularly in regards to education.

               Fundamentally, I think it is about making strong connections, and working with each other honestly. When you are in the company of someone you trust, unearned praise strikes a note of discord, (however sometimes for those unused to positive remarks it can kick start off a sense of pride.)

               In the end though, the best form of self-management requires all of us to have a good and accurate measure of self-estimation. We all get to prioritise where our energies are directed as adults, and we get to decide what tasks can be achieved with smaller effort, and which we can immerse ourselves in.
             • Cinny …

               21 May 2018 at 4:46 pm

               Thanks Ian for that, much appreciated, this young girl has blown me away with her initiative, she was tidying up and organising a items as well as a few stray kids without me having to ask her. When she does such things, I thank her for being helpful by seeing that something needed to be done and taking action.

               Thanks for the tips 🙂 Will def take it onboard.

               Molly, thanks so much for the link, much appreciated, looking forward to having a read. Yes it’s about trust and honesty, the last thing I want her to do is to think that I’m just giving her praise to help her feel happy.

               In the few weeks since I’ve been engaging with her I’ve noticed she is becoming more relaxed, will be spending one on one time with her this week, so am hoping she will open up and share any of her ideas for our project.
               • Molly …

                 21 May 2018 at 5:37 pm

                 I think your enthusiasm is going to be infectious. Break a leg! (Terrible saying, but the only one I can think of that is appropriate).
         • saveNZ 2.2.1.1.3

           21 May 2018 at 3:24 pm

           The shooting culture starts off when they are young. Have an American liberal friend and we were telling her how crazy US gun laws were and she said she didn’t think so and then told us how she was left alone in the house as a 10 yo and her parents gave her a gun to defend herself just in case! Didn’t see anything wrong with it!

           Obviously knocking on someones door in the US must have it’s issues if you could be blown away by a nervous kid home alone. This was about 20 years ago when she was 10 so I’m sure much worse now with automatic weapons!

           And this women was a liberal minded person who still thought being bought up like that was ok!

           It’s not just the republicans that are crazy!
     • Macro 2.2.2

       21 May 2018 at 1:20 pm

       The US has a massive gun violence problem and mass killings at schools are only a small part of the overall problem. To date this year alone 5,482 people have been killed by by guns and 9,996 people injured. That’s around 40 people a day killed by firearms. There have been 102 mass killings so far this year (ie numbers killed > 4 ) . Taking into account the number of young people – 992 teens (12 – 17), and 237 children under the age of 12 have killed or injured.
       http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
       The solutions is frankly straight forward – but not one that US legislators are willing or able to grapple with. As Germane Lopez who has been covering gun violence in the US for years explains here https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/21/17028930/gun-violence-us-statistics-charts the simple fact is that there are far too many guns available and next to no restrictions on who has access to them. The rate of gun ownership in the US is almost 1 per person, far outstripping all other countries. The US makes up less than 5% of the world population but has 42% of the privately owned firearms.
       It was not so much that the young man felt jilted by a girl which lead him to kill and injure so many others – but the fact that in his home there was easy access to a pistol and shotgun and ammunition. Had the guns not been there this horrible event most likely would not have happened.

       a 2013 study, led by a Boston University School of Public Health researcher, found that, after controlling for multiple variables, each percentage point increase in gun ownership correlated with a roughly 0.9 percent rise in the firearm homicide rate.

       From the above link.

       It is all too easy to blame these killings on anything and everything other than the fact that there are firearms easy to hand.

       Supporters of gun rights look at America’s high levels of gun violence and argue that guns are not the problem. They point to other issues, from violence in video games and movies to the supposed breakdown of the traditional family.

       Most recently, they’ve blamed mental health issues for mass shootings. This is the only policy issue that Trump mentioned in his first speech following the Florida shooting.

       But as far as homicides go, people with mental illnesses are more likely to be victims, not perpetrators, of violence. And Michael Stone, a psychiatrist at Columbia University who maintains a database of mass shooters, wrote in a 2015 analysis that only 52 out of the 235 killers in the database, or about 22 percent, had mental illnesses. “The mentally ill should not bear the burden of being regarded as the ‘chief’ perpetrators of mass murder,” he concluded. Other research has backed this up.

       From the above link.
       • Jimmy 2.2.2.1

         21 May 2018 at 4:13 pm

         I find it difficult to understand how the USA has so many shootings, can it really be just because of the availability of firearms?
         Seems strange, that other country’s don’t experience the same level of shootings.
         Seems too me it must be gun culture, rather than gun availablity.
         My personal rural experience is one of gun availability throughout my life, and I’m sure that’s not uncommon in NZ.
         Even Urban NZ has plenty of firearms, pistol clubs for example are well attended in our main cities.
         Yet mass shootings thankfully are uncommon.
         • McFlock 2.2.2.1.1

           21 May 2018 at 4:40 pm

           I suspect part of it is the emphasis on guns for self defense. The idea you need to carry the gun everywhere, all the time, doesn’t come from the issue of sudden visits to a firing range.

           So they end up regarding guns as daily tools, and in heightened paranoia all the time. And they’re always close if someone has a bad day and loses impulse control.
           • Jimmy 2.2.2.1.1.1

             21 May 2018 at 5:17 pm

             Also perhaps the issue with firearms is people who use them for hunting etc, actually see the damage that they are capable of.
             I remember being absolutely shocked at the damage the .270 rifle I had used to shoot a Billy goat when I was 16.
             It certainly brings a sobriety to firearms, and any other feelings of masculinity and power soon left me for shock.
             Perhaps this sort of experience is needed to understand firearms, and give a greater appreciation of what it means to fire one at man or beast.
         • Macro 2.2.2.1.2

           21 May 2018 at 5:09 pm

           If you were to look at the links in the comment above you would see just how it is that the the US has such a high carnage from gun violence. There is a direct correlation between the rate of gun ownership and gun fatalities. This is not just studies which look at the US, they look at other countries and what actions they have taken in response to mass shootings. – notably the Port Albert Massacre in Australia where 38 were killed in one episode of violence. The crackdown by the Australian federal Government – even buying back guns in a gun amnesty – led to a dramatic drop in deaths by gun violence.
           There is virtually no gun control measures in the states. Where one state may impose restrictions, that is easily circumvented by going out of state and purchasing whatever you want elsewhere. Whilst illegal, it is almost impossible to police until coming to the notice of police through criminal activity.
           • McFlock 2.2.2.1.2.1

             21 May 2018 at 7:05 pm

             I suspect there’s also a function to do with the distribution of guns amongst owners – while a certain proportion of owners of multiple firearms would be historical collectors and dealers, if the majority of firearms are in the hands of a small proportion of owners, I’d be interested in any correlation. It might explain Switzerland being an outlier, if I recall correctly.
             • Macro …

               21 May 2018 at 9:40 pm

               The US has around 88 guns per hundred people, while Switzerland has around 42 guns per hundred.
               Switzerland’s relatively high rate of gun ownership (NZ’s is about 22/100 Australia about 17/100) is of course due to their fierce neutrality and the requirement for a standing “civilian” Army.) Switzerland not only has the highest rate of gun ownership in Europe, it also has the highest rate of gun related deaths in Europe (around 4 per 100,000 people). The US is around 9/100,000. By Comparison NZ’s is around 2.5 /100,000 and Australia with far stricter gun regulations than NZ is around 1 /100,000.
               • McFlock …

                 21 May 2018 at 9:51 pm

                 Yeah I was more thinking that I’d read somewhere that half of privately owned guns in the US are owned by something like 3% of the population.

                 Sort of a gini coefficient for gun ownership, vs a raw per capita rate.
                 • Macro …

                   21 May 2018 at 10:07 pm

                   What you say wrt to the 3% owning the majority of the guns is correct. There are estimated to be 300 million guns in the U.S., but 130 million of them are owned by about 3 percent of the adult population. That’s still 170 million spread over the rest of the population of 325 million – still a rate of gun ownership higher than all other countries apart from Yeman.
                   The other main difference between the US and Switzerland is in background checks and regulations with respect to the storage and carriage of guns. Like NZ guns in Switzerland must be unloaded and securely stored – in many States in the US this is not the case, and little to no background checks.
                   • McFlock …

                     21 May 2018 at 11:02 pm

                     True.
               • Muttonbird …

                 21 May 2018 at 9:53 pm

                 Great stats thanks Macro. So it really is true, guns do kill people.
                 • One Two …

                   21 May 2018 at 9:59 pm

                   Guns do not kill people…Guns can kill people but a gun does not make the decision to kill…

                   The medical industry kills hundreds of thousands of people every year…

                   In the US alone…
                   • Muttonbird …

                     21 May 2018 at 10:04 pm

                     For Christ’s sake. Did you just completely change the subject in order to push your anti-vax campaign?
                   • One Two []

                     21 May 2018 at 10:29 pm

                     Interpretation is important…

                     The first paragraph should be easy enough for you to have interpreted, and as you’ve not addresed it I would say you understood what I said…

                     The second paragraph was offering an example of an industry where human decisions also kill, and in far greater numbers than guns…or more poignantly the human beings who decide to use them to kill…

                     https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_suggests_medical_errors_now_third_leading_cause_of_death_in_the_us
                   • Muttonbird …

                     21 May 2018 at 10:41 pm

                     You edited the first sentence after posting so I hope you will have the decency to admit that. You added that claptrap about a gun not making the decision to kill.

                     Macro put up some very damning statistics about gun prevalence and regulation versus human loss of life.

                     You then went off on a bizarre anti-vax tangent.
                   • One Two []

                     21 May 2018 at 10:57 pm

                     Yes I added the extra sentence…why do you think it’s ‘decent’ that I should admit to having added the sentence…it didn’t alter the core premise of what I stated…

                     Guns don’t kill people no matter how much you believe it…they don’t!

                     As for how you’ve interpreted my comments or link as ‘AV’ is all in your imagination…perhaps read the link and then try again…
       • DB 2.2.2.2

         21 May 2018 at 4:48 pm

         Personal anecdotes.

         Life was tough, we were poor, Dad ruled by fist. We got by… My brother died in front of me crushed in machinery – a factory accident. I got questioned by police, repeatedly. The detectives were brutal. They made many threats including prison and prison rape to a then seven year old boy. They took me to town and put me in a cell and said I was never getting out. There was no adult supervision for me during any of this and today (> 40 years later) I still struggle with PTSD, trust and authority.

         Probably wouldn’t have been so severe except I was meant to be grieving, not defending myself.

         My brother saw no mangled bodies, had no interrogations, accusations…

         Months later the neighbors boys invaded a hut we were in. I had made a rabbit warren of an existing shed. This thing with layers and trapdoors, three stories, hidden doors, a bolthole, etc. I was a mess, I wanted to feel safe.

         I went and found another place to hide. My brother (6) got Dad’s gun and went after them. Luckily, he couldn’t find bullets.

         One more. Pete was a state ward who sometimes slept in our dog kennel when on the run from the boys home. He was 14 when he joined me, also 14, at the Hillcrest Tavern for some beers. We walked home through a park to smoke weed and some older males (who we actually knew!) mugged him.

         Pete had a stash of guns and a too long and tragic history. About a week later he was passenger in someone’s car and hello – driving past one of the muggers. He opened up both barrels of a sawn-off shotgun at him as they drove by. He missed and hit a crate of beer the guy was standing beside.

         Points you illustrated:

         1. The mentally ill should not bear the burden of being regarded as the ‘chief’ perpetrators of mass murder.

         2. Guns are the smoking gun in (school) shootings.

         Agreed. The more access to guns the more gun violence. It’s so blatantly obvious.

         But! Facts don’t sell guns.
         • Molly 2.2.2.2.1

           21 May 2018 at 5:42 pm

           Thanks for the personal anecdote DB. Your story about the rabbit warren in your shed, hit home because of the similarity to a childhood story of a friend of mine. Both you and she deserved better.

           It’s never too late to get support, if you ever feel that it is time to do so. You are providing support just by relating your story. Thanks, again.
         • patricia bremner 2.2.2.2.2

           21 May 2018 at 10:06 pm

           DB, I spent quite a time thinking about the way the Police treated a shocked wee boy. Sometimes when males in the family have broken laws, all the members of the family are “written off” and treated badly as a consequence.

           A cousin had that experience. His adoptive Father got on the wrong side of the law, the Police followed the boy in a small town ’till they “caught him throwing stones”. It spiralled down ’till my Dad sent him to live with another Uncle who discovered Bill was a natural at Maths and building intricate models…it saved him. One loving caring adult can make such a difference.

           Our youngest decided to go into Baking. Well with one vehicle between us, son would wake me with a cuppa at 2a.m. I would get into my dressing gown and slippers, pile into the car while he drove 12km to the Bakery to start the weighing and machinery at 2.30a.m. Then I’d return home to sleep ’till 6.30a.m.
           Again I would collect him from his work at 12.30 or 3.30p.m. Long days.

           This particular night the car lit up. “Police” Son pulled over. We waited. A voice says “Is this your car?” Son said “no, it is my parents” “Do they know you are driving round at this time of night?” “Yes” said son. “Oh yeah..Right! How old are you?’ Son “18” “Oh yeah Right!”

           Tone was now really aggressive so I leaned forward and said “What is the problem Officer?” He gasped then said “I didn’t know you were there” “No I didn’t think you did!” He then said “Where are you going at this hour?” I then explained G was going to work in the Bakery as he had the responsibility of starting all the ovens and do the weighing before 5.30 shift started and I would drive home for some sleep before my teaching day.

           He then became utterly charming, saying he had stopped us as a tail light was not operating. I hopped out, and sure enough. So as you do, I wanged it and it flickered on. “Oh ” I said “I’ll get N to look into that today.” “Fine you can go then” So we did, but we commented on his change of manner and we wondered what would have happened if I hadn’t been there! Is it Power??
           • DB 2.2.2.2.2.1

             21 May 2018 at 11:40 pm

             It took me ever so long to understand what happened as it was so outrageous my Mother would leave me alone with them like that. And also, that they could treat me so. I was terrified. Why would they want to talk to me if I hadn’t done something wrong. They certainly instilled a complex or two. I can still remember them initiating terms with her ‘if you or a lawyer are with him you might coach him and we need to get to the truth’ – so they got me alone. And then leaving, most proud of themselves to announce to her ‘he’s definitely innocent, anyone else would of broke after all that’. Of course I did break, as I was just a little kid.

             This was a Dairy Company factory. Pre-Fonterra but big business all the same. Safety regulations had to be upgraded to stop kids wandering onto sites after that. Would have been a whole lot cheaper, and sold plenty of papers, to convict a kid of pushing his brother into a machine. I had a friend with me too, an eye-witness. They said we colluded but we’d been kept separate the whole time. They told me he signed a statement saying I did it. They were bloody mongrels. Some detectives from the big smoke.

             I must note I’ve also worked alongside/witnessed amazing police folk who are a real credit to the community. One particular community constable in Hamilton stands out, he’d take local ratbags out fishing on his boat. He let me drive a slightly dodgy car to do the run for a food bank. I parked it practically under his office window as that’s where we unloaded. Got the warrant soon as I got the cash he he. He was top notch. Straight up but not a dick about it. Turned a few of those kids around too.

             Back to me story. Children have a way of masking stuff that is a bit much for them and I had no idea what I was up against I just took forever to put the pieces back together again. Even with the help of all the kings horses and all the kings men… Hehe. Ya gotta laugh, it’s mandatory!

             I found a decade of drinking helped, at least it felt like it did.

             So I went a bit wild. I was living in the bush age 17. Me, my girl, our dog, a sack of rice and some fishing lines. It was probably that that saved me. I still hit the piss for ten years when I got out of the bush, but I wasn’t so angry anymore…

             I was worse, a bloody amateur ecologist.
             • patricia bremner …

               22 May 2018 at 2:27 am

               Thanks DB. We all have to rationalise things that have scared or hurt us.
               When I had polio aged six, and was separated from my parents for six months, I became clingy or belligerent in wild swings. Nightmares about lumbar punctures and iron lungs made going to bed a dreaded ritual where for years after, I knotted my hair with catatonic rocking to shut out the visions. At that age we don’t have the language to express the very strong feelings. They stay ’till we master them. Keep well, ecology sounds good. Mine was reading.
       • MikeS 2.2.2.3

         22 May 2018 at 12:26 am

         “The solutions is frankly straight forward”

         When the right to bear arms is enshrined in the US constitution and has the backing of numerous supreme court decisions, how could the solution (assuming the solution is to restrict or prohibit access to guns) possibly be straight forward?

         So 80% (or thereabouts) of mass shooters don’t have a mental illness. What a crock.

         For someone to deliberately murder one innocent person, let alone multiple people in cold blood they must have some form of mental illness. People with ‘normal’ functioning mental states don’t go out and murder innocent people on mass.

         They may not have shown any form of severe mental illness before becoming mass murderers and without reading the study you mentioned I’d bet that is what it says, but to say they are in a normal mental state when committing mass murder is bollocks. Think about what state of mind you yourself would have to be in to commit mass murder. Would you imagine you could do it in your normal mental state?
   • patricia bremner 2.3

     21 May 2018 at 3:29 pm

     “Mummies boys become school shooters” Well Well… Blame women!!
     That is sick!! and sexist.
     • Stuart Munro 2.3.1

       21 May 2018 at 3:45 pm

       I don’t think that’s what it’s about.

       One of the roles of a male parent has been to help children grow their own notions of acceptable behavior through things like roughhouse play.

       https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/growing-friendships/201506/do-boys-need-rough-and-tumble-play

       You might compare it to peer pecking in birds – raptor chicks must learn to limit sibling pecking because they could easily kill each other. Dove chicks lack that mechanism and sibling pecking is occasionally fatal in spite of the less impressive armaments.

       Boys who roughhouse inappropriately (fight dirty for example) may struggle to make friends or self-isolate. These are risk factors for things like school shooting.
       • Molly 2.3.1.1

         21 May 2018 at 4:18 pm

         “Boys who roughhouse inappropriately (fight dirty for example) may struggle to make friends or self-isolate. These are risk factors for things like school shooting.”
         That’s a bit of a leap of logic there, Stuart.
         • Stuart Munro 2.3.1.1.1

           21 May 2018 at 4:32 pm

           More of a statistical gap – psych folks have been pointing out the problem of families without good male role models for a long time. The research supports that to some degree – but school shooters are a tiny proportion of even the US population, it’s by no means every sole parent child, or even 1% of them.

           Of course sole parent families also are more likely to be financially stressed, which is another risk factor. It’s a bit tricky finding research not prompted by the desire to impose a set of norms on struggling families, but there is some.
           https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/7a3f/3c6ac4fdf8014ab6ea604ea750e96743d1a0.pdf
           • Molly 2.3.1.1.1.1

             21 May 2018 at 4:59 pm

             I have read some of the literature, but was pointing out your jump in logic in your comment.

             Have done a quick skim through the link, which looks very interesting, and saved a copy for when I have the time to sit and ponder. But the table on Page six looks like a good indication of where it is going.

             (Didn’t find anything about rough-housing and female parenting though. Interestingly enough, two of my closest male friends who seemed very grounded were brought up in female households. But that could be a reflection of my female perspective to what a grounded human (male or female) acts like).

             Good role models are good role models. They aren’t necessarily linked to specific acts ie. male roughhousing. (I know few rough females 😉 )
             • Stuart Munro …

               21 May 2018 at 5:17 pm

               I think any generalizations are always going to look a bit like a smear. Children will learn appropriate behavior from peers in a healthy community, and it may be that kiwi women are more physical than the parts of the US such studies come from. In less healthy communities it may be more real, but still only a risk factor.

               I’m surprised not to see a more recent breakdown though, and it wouldn’t surprise me if a multiple risk factor threshold existed along the lines of Malcolm Gladwell’s argument about air crashes, that they principally occurred in bad weather with tired crews and mechanical issues. Gladwell reckoned seven present risk factors was typical for an air accident.
               • Molly …

                 21 May 2018 at 5:32 pm

                 The multiple-risk factor seems most likely. Which makes the predictive nature of individual risk factors very inaccurate.

                 I’m more inclined to look for studies that seem to reflect a loss of social connections within families, neighbourhoods, and communities that produce not only a ‘sense’ of isolation, but an reality of isolation that is not hampered by the awareness and adept handling by others around you. Sounds a bit simplistic in “a village raises a child” way, but more like the social net has smaller holes so less people fall through.

                 (The case studies at the end of your link make a good read too, as does the conclusion. )
             • MikeS …

               22 May 2018 at 12:57 am

               There’s an abundance of data which shows clearly that children raised in single parent families are massively more likely to commit serious crimes when they get older. This is a fact. For example, 85% of prison inmates in the USA come from fatherless homes.

               Currently most single parent families are a mother raising children by herself. This doesn’t mean necessarily that these stats would be any different for single parent families where the father is the parent there just doesn’t seem to be much data on single father families.

               Yes good role models are good role models but the stats clearly show that having 2 good role models ( a mother and a father) massively decreases the chances of negative consequences for the child as they grow up.
               • Molly …

                 27 May 2018 at 4:38 pm

                 Might also be linked to the poverty of many single parent homes as well. As stuart mentioned, the issue is multi faceted, and linking outcomes to one factor is too simplistic.
     • DB 2.3.2

       21 May 2018 at 4:05 pm

       Hi Patricia.

       I appreciate the feedback. You are right, that old saying ‘mummies boy’ is well past its used by date. It was pointed out to me and addressed above as well. It’s a saying embedded in language, and I’ve not given it a second thought till now.

       I was alluding to mollycoddling children and their subsequent lack of personal responsibility and feelings of insignificance. It’s a recipe for trouble.
       • patricia bremner 2.3.2.1

         21 May 2018 at 4:46 pm

         Yep… explanation accepted . I often use phrases, and have to re think!!
     • greywarshark 2.3.3

       21 May 2018 at 4:11 pm

       It would be good if women who regard themselves as feminists weren’t so sensitive yet aggressive, responding like this.
       Women want to be treated as equals and be able to mix with others in a relaxed way which means not defensive, not hysterical, not aggressive and retaliatory.
       • DB 2.3.3.1

         21 May 2018 at 4:52 pm

         Are you trolling? “not hysterical”

         I’d be offended but I’m laughing too loud.
         • greywarshark 2.3.3.1.1

           21 May 2018 at 4:58 pm

           DB
           Are you trolling? I have been commenting here for years and people who know me would not consider that I go in for that. I guess you are someone who can’t cope with a different view than whatever is the meme amongst the in group.
           • DB 2.3.3.1.1.1

             21 May 2018 at 6:53 pm

             I have no issue with different views. I was having a laugh.

             But for the record: Men who express themselves may be ‘strong’ or ‘passionate’. Yet women are ‘hysterical’ or ‘defensive’. It’s BS.

             And… I did not make a personal attack, I laughed at your wording. In the context of the conversation, it is hilarious (my humor is dark).

             You do not see your gaffe?
       • patricia bremner 2.3.3.2

         21 May 2018 at 4:57 pm

         greywarshark that is harsh. So I point up a fallacy which is sexist and evoke your response with four damming adjectives. LOL

         Should I have said “Stupid fathers buying guns as toys cause school shootings?”
         A field day of adjectives might have followed that!! LOL.
         • greywarshark 2.3.3.2.1

           21 May 2018 at 6:35 pm

           I thought this was about the term ‘mummie’s boy’? This is not a fallacy, it is an opinion which may be appropriate in some cases. Daddie’s girl also. And I think the possible remark about stupid fathers and guns would be justified from what I have read. Honesty and room for reasoned opinion will help understanding I think. Otherwise it’s authoritarian and unnecessary censorship. Incidentally a Texas leader or governor has given his opinion about the mass of shootings there that the causes are abortion, broken homes and video games. That’s outspoken but not reasoned, so is an example of what isn’t helpful!

           This discussion on what is ‘proper’ language takes me back to 1988 and the delightful Ronald Searle’s Non-Sexist Dictionary. He had a look at words that could have a change of gender, or perhaps two depending on who used them.

           He drew his fine illustrations to Mango – Womango, Mandolin – Womandolin, Hedonist- Shedonist, Historian – Hertorian. The words finishing in ment – Instrument, Implement, Improvement, were easily amended. In 2018 and this 1988 publication still is current.

           By the way there are 6 women activists locked up in Saudi Arabia for advocating women have the right to drive a car and go out in public on their own. Perhaps writing protests to the relevant Saudi authority, Amnesty International would probably have the address, would help them. And perhaps write rather than go through the internet seeing we are so friendly with one Saudi sheik and they might be close allies. Your email address might end up with the GCSB.
       • Brigid 2.3.3.3

         21 May 2018 at 7:12 pm

         greywarshark
         This comment of yours, is your interpretation of women’s behaviour.

         It demonstrates your attitude to and opinion of the behaviour of such women and says rather a lot about you.

         Considering the topic in this thread I would also regard it as trolling
   • patricia bremner 2.4

     21 May 2018 at 7:43 pm

     “Spend the day in the service of others” Yes… This heals the soul.
3. cleangreen 3

   21 May 2018 at 7:38 am

   The new threat of disease to our entire cattle stock is a case of point as we have now allowed the unchecked transport of cows all around NZ on trucks and the Mycoplasma_bovis dsease which may destroy our second largest export earner and biggest company.

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycoplasma_bovis

   Prevention[edit]
   There are many ways by which cattle can be prevented from catching Mycoplasma bovis and other pathogenic bacteria.[7]
   Transport of animals[edit]
   When transporting the animals from one farm to another, It would be appropriate if the transport vehicle could be cleaned with disinfectants before and after use. For better care, environmental swabbing should be taken place and samples sent to a microbiology lab if any harmful bacteria will be detected, further actions should be taken place.[8]
   Visitors[edit]
   Only authorized people should be allow to visit a farm. Visitors shall arrive with clean clothing and footwear and disinfectant on arrival and departure can be used to stop getting the introduction of bacteria’s. For example, a water mat with disinfectant can be used in the entrance of the farm, water bath, company can provide sanitized clothes for people.
   Weekly inspection and maintenance[edit]
   In the end of the week, cleaning of all the areas and equipment reduces the chances of animals getting sick. Also, it is important to clean the feedlot container and keep the feed dry. Doubling the boundary fence with a 6-inch gap prevents the animals contacting neighbouring animals.
   History and taxonomy[edit]
   • Draco T Bastard 3.1

     21 May 2018 at 12:16 pm

     The new threat of disease to our entire cattle stock is a case of point as we have now allowed the unchecked transport of cows all around NZ on trucks

     It wasn’t allowed per sé. It was the farmers and truckers who ignored the requirements for proper recording and lack of enforcement of the rules.

     This just proves the necessary requirement of regulations and the need for them to be properly enforced.
     • cleangreen 3.1.1

       21 May 2018 at 12:24 pm

       Yes draco,

       Also the on board containment of stock affluent and discharge of it into government controlled iraddication of those toxins has not been enforced nor funded under nine years of national Government either so national made it all worse but we need to contain the spread now so need to stop movement of tock now to stop the spread or we are all done stuffed and fucked.

       National= disaster.
   • Tamati Tautuhi 3.2

     21 May 2018 at 4:05 pm

     Hopefully the farmers that have been transporting infected livestock around the country are being held to account ?
     • Gabby 3.2.1

       21 May 2018 at 5:08 pm

       imagine their friends will be going to great lengths to disappear any evidence.
4. Incognito 4

   21 May 2018 at 7:51 am

   A nice thought-provoking article:

   Do we care about the future? Why New Zealand needs an agreed framework for how we value future lives

   https://sciblogs.co.nz/guestwork/2018/05/15/new-zealand-framework-for-future-lives/
5. AsleepWhileWalking 5

   21 May 2018 at 8:13 am

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/property/104051320/posthumous-court-win-against-major-wellington-landlord

   Clear patterns emerging of tenant exploitation – biggest wgtn ll charging key money ffs.

   That’s Craig Relph, Portfolio Property Management.

   Judge Tuohy awarded Kelly’s estate the maximum it could – $1000 – and said it would have been “several times more” if possible, after Tynan Kelly was made to sign a fixed-term agreement to stay in the boarding house on Aurora Tce, Kelburn.

   Boarding houses cannot be covered by fixed terms.

   There was “no argument” that it was unlawful, the judge wrote.

   “The inference that it did so intentionally is irresistible, both in the sense that its insertion of a fixed term was deliberate and that it knew from its experience that to do so was unlawful”.
   
6. Stunned Mullet 6

   21 May 2018 at 9:11 am

   Stop wasting ratepayers money !

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12055397
   • Draco T Bastard 6.1

     21 May 2018 at 12:24 pm

     We already have far too many stadia in Auckland.
     • Molly 6.1.1

       21 May 2018 at 7:50 pm

       … and far too many people who promote them, despite all evidence that they are not required, not beneficial, and definitely not economically viable.
7. Gosman 7

   21 May 2018 at 9:21 am

   If any Left winger wonders why Right wingers can be so virulently opposed to leftist politics when supposedly the aims are just to help the poor and disadvantaged in society take a look at Venezuela and especially what has been happening just recently in relation to the elections. Hard left movements like the Chavista regime in Venezuela are all fine with Democracy when it serves their purposes but quickly ditch any pretence when people turn against them.

   https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/05/18/hostages-hunger-venezuela
   • Robert Guyton 7.1

     21 May 2018 at 9:27 am

     Trip-trap, trip-trap, trip-trap!
     • Grey Area 7.1.1

       21 May 2018 at 9:30 am

       Chuckle. +1
     • OnceWasTim 7.1.2

       21 May 2018 at 3:08 pm

       Re Gozzzz …. Whooosh! Venuzuela was once a fixation with him from what I remember, but even then….
   • adam 7.2

     21 May 2018 at 12:01 pm

     So if the exit polls and the vote go with the government, your already preempting it by saying that it is an illegal vote because people are hungry.

     Sheesh Gosman, desperate much.

     I’d also like to point out that your mates, created the toilet paper crisis, how much of them buying up other commodities has caused this crisis…

     But then again, Tory tards never look at their mates bad behaviour, like your head chopping mates in Saudi Arabia.
     • Gosman 7.2.1

       21 May 2018 at 2:41 pm

       Saudi Arabia is not a country I support. Quite the contrary I would prefer that the West (including NZ) imposes the harshest sanctions against that abominable nation.
       • adam 7.2.1.1

         21 May 2018 at 7:44 pm

         Really, first I heard of it.

         And how about your lot creating crisis after crisis in countries it opposes. Venezuela is just the latest in a very long list.
         • Gosman 7.2.1.1.1

           22 May 2018 at 2:14 am

           Are you laying the blame for the death of democracy in Venezuela on the right???
   • WILD KATIPO 7.3

     21 May 2018 at 12:21 pm

     No offense , Gosman but every time I see endorsers of the neo liberal ‘righteousness ‘,… they always seem to have a penchant for bringing up extreme examples of ‘socialism ‘ like Venezuela,.. yet always strangely silent about super prosperous examples like the Scandinavian country’s…

     It almost seems more of an Americanophile thing,… someone brought up in that country who seems almost willfully ignorant of anything outside of their narrow sphere of experience that challenges their mindsets…

     And we can ascribe countless failures to former capitalist country’s in decades past.

     The USA for one, – the 1929 Wall Street crash and the ensuing Great Depression.

     There you go – Laizzez Faire economics.

     The ancestor of modern neo liberalism. And guess what pulled the USA out of the Great Depression , – Keynesianism ( to which places like Scandinavia still practice as more or less ‘socialist ‘ country’s ) . In 6 short months like it did every other country that adopted it. Which meant most of west Europe and Japan as well.

     So if you’re going to cite failures to shore up your ideological stance , please at least be honest and mention its ( neo liberalisms ) failures as well. Of which there are many.
   • Pat 7.4

     21 May 2018 at 12:22 pm

     What has happened in Venezuela is what happens when the right are blinded by their greed and fail to realise that if they dont acknowledge society they will lose what they have appropriated……that is the lesson of Venezuela…and history.
     • Gosman 7.4.1

       21 May 2018 at 2:43 pm

       You mean everyone loses as the State becomes a Socialist basket case?
       • Pat 7.4.1.1

         21 May 2018 at 3:03 pm

         I mean what i wrote…..and would suggest NZ aint as far away from Venezuela as many may think…..how close is only visible in hindsight.
         • Gosman 7.4.1.1.1

           21 May 2018 at 3:17 pm

           Which political party plays the role of the destructive Socialists in New Zealand?
           • Pat 7.4.1.1.1.1

             21 May 2018 at 5:09 pm

             which party plays the role of enabling greed to the detriment of society?
             • Gosman …

               21 May 2018 at 5:36 pm

               I suspect that you would think that would be National and/or ACT. So which party/s play the part of destructive Socialists in NZ?
               • Pat …

                 21 May 2018 at 5:43 pm

                 the party of destruction arrives when the electorate has nothing left to lose….its up to the current parties (and electorate) to ensure that dosnt happen
       • cleangreen 7.4.1.2

         21 May 2018 at 3:37 pm

         Gosman.

         “everyone loses” = 1% rich I guess you mean.
         • Gosman 7.4.1.2.1

           21 May 2018 at 3:52 pm

           It is everyone who is losing in Venezuela at the moment. Not just the top 1%
           • Stuart Munro 7.4.1.2.1.1

             21 May 2018 at 3:58 pm

             Far-right insurgency. Never helps.
             • Gosman …

               21 May 2018 at 5:32 pm

               Does that excuse the gross abuse of the democratic process then?

               I wonder how many moderate left wingers will continue to back the Chavista regime. Previously they were used as an example of how Socialist policies were incredibly popular and how Socialism could be implemented in a democratic manner.
               • Stuart Munro …

                 21 May 2018 at 5:47 pm

                 The democratic process doesn’t function particularly well in warfare, which is why the Romans were wont to elect limited term dictators to resolve such matters.

                 So, there’s been insurgent warfare and corporate intrigue on a large scale. You should watch Pilger’s War on Democracy if you’re not acquainted with the facts.

                 What we have is large state belligerence coupled with a murderous moneyed elite. The government has been a model of restraint, but if things escalate that elite will probably be punished. They certainly have it coming.
           • MikeS 7.4.1.2.1.2

             22 May 2018 at 1:22 am

             C’mon Gosman, give the Venezuela line a rest. There’s a long history of interference in the politics of and aggression against Venezuela by other countries (Mainly the USA) and the IMF, etc which have caused most of the harm. Economic warfare is (and has been) destroying Venezuela, not socialism.

             If you look at the countries of the West, the more socially democratic ones are doing much better than the less socialist (such as the USA) in all areas of wellbeing (both economic and otherwise). If New Zealand wasn’t a social democracy I doubt very much it would be a better place to live.
8. AsleepWhileWalking 8

   21 May 2018 at 11:03 am

   Rents reach all time high (but are going higher)

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12055437
   • alwyn 8.1

     21 May 2018 at 11:14 am

     Stop propagating these lies.
     Twyford has been hard at work. He has brought in controls on rents and started the building of thousands of housing units for rental. In addition KiwiBuild goes from strength to strength.
     Or not.
     • Barfly 8.1.1

       21 May 2018 at 6:24 pm

       troll much?
9. adam white 9

   21 May 2018 at 11:20 am

   If you need a laugh…
   • greywarshark 9.1

     21 May 2018 at 4:39 pm

     Thanks Adam.
     • greywarshark 9.1.1

       21 May 2018 at 4:56 pm

       Thinking further, I find it hard to take in that chap Adolf Hitler Campbell or whatever who wants custody of his children.
       The image of him just makes me think of Michael Palin, putting on an act. It wasn’t a bit of satire was it?
       • adam 9.1.1.1

         21 May 2018 at 8:38 pm

         I think it was real https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heath_Hitler
10. adam 10

    21 May 2018 at 12:11 pm

    An exercises in media analysis, or how the modern media do such a good job in sweeping an argument under the carpet. This is about the Dagenham Tesco strike. If you believe the local rag it’s just the union being uppity.

    http://www.barkinganddagenhampost.co.uk/news/business/tesco-workers-at-dagenham-distribution-centre-set-to-strike-for-24-hours-over-pay-dispute-1-5522252

    But if you want the truth, you have to dig a bit deeper. Here is more in depth analysis and the reason why this strike is important.

    https://libcom.org/news/tesco-workers-strike-dagenham-distribution-centre-20052018

    Funny how the two just don’t match up. Have you ever wondered how often you lied to by omission and a quick brush over by the media?
11. Kay 11

    21 May 2018 at 12:14 pm

    Well of course he does.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/104066629/national-would-scrap-winter-energy-payment-for-pensioners-and-beneficiaries

    The only agreeable thing is that hi parents don’t need it. The idea that they, Winston et al will be automatically getting it (and somehow I doubt he, and many of those who don’t need it will voluntarily opt out) is not very palatable.

    Note Simon’s tax cuts will provide an increase to the pension but no mention of an increase to core benefits because, well, no votes there and who cares if the ones who actually have a home freeze. I doubt the reporter even thought to push him on that. Lab/NZF have no intention of increasing benefit rates, this fuel grant aka temporary increase is the nearest we’ve had in 30 years.
    • WILD KATIPO 11.1

      21 May 2018 at 12:26 pm

      But they did increase students weekly allowance.
      • Kay 11.1.1

        21 May 2018 at 12:54 pm

        Nice for the students and needed but being a student is at least a finite experience. Incidentally, next time you go anywhere with an entrance fee- concert, exhibition, mini golf even, have a look- nearly always student and pensioner discount. No disabled/beneficiary discount. Same with public transport in a lot of towns. Students are allowed to have a life but we’re not.
        • The Chairman 11.1.1.1

          21 May 2018 at 1:29 pm

          “Next time you go anywhere with an entrance fee- concert, exhibition, mini golf even, have a look- nearly always student and pensioner discount. No disabled/beneficiary discount.”

          Indeed. You rasie a valid point, Kay. This bias needs rectifying.
          • patricia bremner 11.1.1.1.1

            21 May 2018 at 4:24 pm

            Kay, I think that is valid, and so I suggest we all write to Jacinda on Facebook to bring that anomaly to her attention. Also local ministers and members.

            Winston did point out that he would like the Gold card and Community services card to be more useful to recipients.
            • Rosemary McDonald 11.1.1.1.1.1

              21 May 2018 at 7:40 pm

              ” I suggest we all write to Jacinda on Facebook to bring that anomaly to her attention.”

              What? Excuse me? Facebook is the way we bring anomalies to the attention of the Prime Minister?

              Well, bugger me. You should have said sooner.

              I don’t use Facebook, so perhaps you could bring this anomaly to the Prime Minisetr’s attention patricia bremner…

              https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12054812

              ” More than a year after officials agreed to release autistic man Ashley Peacock from institutional care, he remains inside – as bureaucrats continue to quibble over funding.

              His parents say their son’s health has deteriorated further, and while they have tried to work with clinicians, little progress has been made.

              Since January, Ashley, now 40-years-old, has suffered two black eyes at Porirua’s Tawhirimatea mental health unit, both without explanation.

              He was also given the wrong medication and had to go to hospital for monitoring. He still sleeps in the same cell-like room, with just a bed and a few sparse possessions.

              Ashley’s parents say he is depressed, and has put on weight. He frequently says his joints hurt.

              Some days, he is too lacklustre even to visit his beloved ponies nearby, once the greatest reprieve from his solitary life inside.

              “We have done everything possible to get Ashley out of that place,” his father David Peacock said. “There is no stone unturned. And still.”

              Ashley – who is not a criminal but has autism as well as an intellectual disability and a severe schizophrenic illness – has now been at Tawhirimatea for seven years.

              More than half that time has been spent secluded in a 10m2 room, once for two-and-a-half years straight, with only 30 mins daily outside. In total he has spent 11 years in institutional care.

              His living situation was labelled cruel, inhuman or degrading by the Chief Ombudsman. Authorities have been told repeatedly by multiple agencies that his treatment breaches human rights.”

              Got that Prime Minister…

              “Ashley – who is not a criminal but has autism as well as an intellectual disability and a severe schizophrenic illness – has now been at Tawhirimatea for seven years.

              More than half that time has been spent secluded in a 10m2 room, once for two-and-a-half years straight, with only 30 mins daily outside. In total he has spent 11 years in institutional care.

              His living situation was labelled cruel, inhuman or degrading by the Chief Ombudsman. Authorities have been told repeatedly by multiple agencies that his treatment breaches human rights.”

              Now, if someone can copy and paste that to the Prime Minister’s Facebook page I’d be grateful…and if the Prime Minister should notice it amidst all the adulation

              sigh

              SSDD.
              • Patricia …

                21 May 2018 at 9:14 pm

                And another man who preyed on vulnerable women and did disgusting things to them in front of their children is living a cushy little life in a cottage attached to a prison. Taken out trout fishing and enjoying his life. Costing taxpayers over a million dollars per annum.
                Surely they can arrange somewhere safe for Ashley so he can enjoy what is left of his life. The treatment he has been receiving will have damaged him beyond repair and we (as a nation) should be ashamed that any person lives in this country under such cruel and inhumane conditions.
              • psych nurse …

                21 May 2018 at 9:16 pm

                I am afraid people think the Ashley’s of this world are benign, cuddly people who have an intellectual disability. I know several Ashley’s who are capable of the most incredible violence without provocation or warning, they are responsible for Nursing staff spending long periods on ACC, staff who have had such severe head injuries that they can never work again, their lives shattered. I am talking of trained experienced Nurses, aware of the risks, how to recognise change in behaviour and how to protect themselves. The suggestion that care be devolved to an NGO is foolish, these facilities commonly use High School students as carers, without training or support and working alone. They prove time and again not to be able to cope with high needs clients and always use DHB facilities and staff as a default when things fail. There has to be a reason for Ashley to have spent so much time in a seclusion unit and violence would be it.
                • Rosemary McDonald …

                  21 May 2018 at 10:55 pm

                  So the answer is to lock them up and throw away the key? Preventative detention? To my knowledge Ashley Peacock was charged with no crime…yet he has served a longer sentence than many do for manslaughter.

                  You speak of the training undergone by psych nurses…hmm…from all reports mental health facilities are chronically understaffed and are often staffed by relievers with little experience. There are similar pressures in the education system with schools struggling to cope with children on the spectrum or with behavioural issues. The answer in a number of schools has also been putting children in seclusion.

                  This may prevent persons being harmed during violent outbursts or meltdowns, but isolating and restraining are not solutions…they are short term management practices….and used repeatedly often exacerbate the aggression…as it appears has happened in this case.

                  One day…it may be the case that a government of NZ will see it is an investment to fund early interventions and support…and ooh look!!! It appears that is what this government has done with the increased funding for Special Education…which is to be applauded.

                  BUT…the Ashleys of NZ who have missed out on these early interventions do not deserve to spend the rest of their lives as prisoners.

                  We can do better.
            • MikeS 11.1.1.1.1.2

              22 May 2018 at 1:35 am

              Community services cards are for access to community services, not concerts and mini golf. Even though I despise WINZ, etc, I don’t for one minute think I should have got cheap entry to concerts, etc when I was on the unemployment benefit.

              When you’re on the unemployment benefit you have to forgo things such as concerts (unless they’re free of course) and mini golf until you’re in a position to afford them.

              Regardless, I don’t see how anyone on the unemployment benefit could afford to go to concerts anyway, discounted or not unless they have some additional income from somewhere.
12. cleangreen 12

    21 May 2018 at 12:29 pm

    NZ On Air sent a message yesterday on TDB site that seemed to suggest that the $15 million given in the budget to NZ On Air would “give us some commmunity voice”.

    But on our request for service then we got nothing.

    see the response after we asked for help from NZ On Air; – it is another useless agency doing nothing.

    Today we chalenged them again to front up and help see below but we dont hold out much hope here. Time will see now.

    Media Enquiries
    Allanah Kalafatelis,
    Head of Communications
    allanah@nzonair.govt.nz
    DDI +64 4 802 8380
    Mobile +64 21 585 538

    Dear Allanah,

    21st May 2018.

    Your suggestion today (quote) “Perhaps you meant this for Radio NZ?” – that we approach RNZ was already coved in our email to you yesterday.

    We have tried RNZ for six months already, and they have already refused to cover our story as we explained in our email to you Allanah,

    Read our email to you; and review where we said

    “We were never supported by ‘public media ‘for years now.”

    “Ever since then we appear to had been banned from any criticism on the ‘public media’ about this controversial rail issue.”

    I highlight that again below for your review.

    We request you give our issue to your Chief executive to deal with this please as she (Jane Wrightson) is quoted as saying (quote)
    “Following 10 years of static funding, NZ On Air welcomes any new money for public media which supports a strong democracy and allows New Zealanders to experience quality local content made by and for New Zealanders.”

    We request she advise RNZ to offer this service of “public media which supports a strong democracy and allows New Zealanders to experience quality local content made by and for New Zealanders.”

    Then we may ask RNZ for that long requested service.
    Thank you for your assistance.
    We await your acceptance.

    Warmest regards,
    ======================================================================================================================

    From: Allanah Kalafatelis
    Sent: Monday, 21 May 2018 7:55 AM
    To
    Subject: Re: Confirm receipt please; – Dear NZ On Air. We i HB/Gisborne are now requesting you for our democratic assistance to have our loss of our rail six years ago to be finally given with our side of the story to be broadcasted to the NZ community on NZ On…

    Dear

    Unfortunately we cannot help you – we are not a broadcaster. We are the funding agency. Perhaps you meant this for Radio NZ?

    Kind regards,
    Allanah Kalafatelis
    NZ On Air

    Sent from my iPad

    On 20/05/2018, at 2:13 PM, – wrote:

    Protecting our environment & health.
    In association with other Community Groups, NHTCF and all Government Agencies since 2001.
    Public COMMUNITY letter;
    20thth May, 2018.
    Media Enquiries
    Allanah Kalafatelis,
    Head of Communications
    allanah@nzonair.govt.nz
    DDI +64 4 802 8380
    Mobile +64 21 585 538

    TO; Allanah Kalafatelis,
    Head of Communications
    NZ On Air,

    Dear Allanah,

    Request for service please;
    You placed this comment on the social site “The Daily Blog” today that provoked us to write to you personally, requesting you for our democratic assistance to have our loss of our rail six years ago to be finally given with our side of the story to be broadcasted to the NZ community on NZ On Air.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1302/S00183/kiwirail-admits-lack-of-maintenance-led-to-wash-out.htm

    See below our comment please and respond to our email at;

    clean.air@xtra.co.nz

    ASAP please for your service to our communities of HB/Gisborne.

    We await your acceptance.
    Founding members of the Gisborne Rail Action Group since 2009.
    Warmest regards,

    Sunday May 20th, 2018

    NZ On Air encouraged by boost to public media in Budget 2018
    By The Daily Blog / May 20, 2018 / No Comments
    TDB recommends Voyager – Unlimited internet @home as fast as you can get
    Print Email

    NZ On Air welcomes the announcement of an extra $15m in Budget 2018 for public media in 2018/19.
    The exact allocation between NZ On Air and RNZ has yet to be determined by the Ministerial Advisory Group.
    Following 10 years of static funding, NZ On Air welcomes any new money for public media which supports a strong democracy and allows New Zealanders to experience quality local content made by and for New Zealanders.
    “We look forward to hearing more about the allocation of the funding, so that we can plan to deliver more quality public media for local audiences in the coming year,” said NZ On Air Chief Executive Jane Wrightson.

    Follow us on Twitter & Facebook

    Published: 4 hours ago on May 20, 2018
    • By: The Daily Blog
    • Last Modified: May 20, 2018 @ 8:46 am
    • Filed Under: Most Recent Blogs, Raw News feed
    • Tagged With: NZ on Air

    ———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

    NZ On Air stated today; Quote;

    “NZ On Air welcomes any new money for public media which supports a strong democracy and allows New Zealanders to experience quality local content made by and for New Zealanders.”

    We send our NGO response to NZ On Air.

    NZ On Air; Well we in HB/Gisborne had lost our rail through National Government’s mismanagement of the stolen rail maintenance funding that caused our rail to be washed out by forestry cuttings blocking our rail track drains in March 2012.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1302/S00183/kiwirail-admits-lack-of-maintenance-led-to-wash-out.htm

    We were never supported by ‘public media ‘for years now.

    Ever since then we appear to had been banned from any criticism on the ‘public media’ about this controversial rail issue.

    So we hope now that you believe this ‘democracy’ will give us a voice we will reserve our judgement until we are finally allowed to voice our issues of rail fail caused by national who stole our rail funding and sent the funds in 2011 to Auckland for passenger rail.

    HB/Gisborne needs a voice to bring this truth out finally of how badly the two provinces were treated by national over those horrible years of john key.

    We both produce also 34% of the total NZ exports and need labour/NZF support to reinstate the rail line all the way to Gisborne again to connect Gisborne to the NZ rail network again.
    • greywarshark 12.1

      21 May 2018 at 1:10 pm

      cleangreen
      You must win support, you have brought so much to the view of politicians and the public presumably know now. What a lot of work your group has done. Does this all get reported in the news covering your area? The people should be proud of the efforts made. Hope it all starts soon. That 34% of total NZ exports (is that by volume) is stunning.
      • cleangreen 12.1.1

        21 May 2018 at 3:16 pm

        Yes greywarshark,

        HB has one of the largest export ports in NZ and 19% export product comes from HB and the rest comes from Gisborne district.

        Both regioions are large horticultural areas and timber producers also so we need rail honestly as we have now the largest road truck freight volumes on ur orads now so need to use rail to lower the damages to our environment now.

        read this PCE report from 2005 and now our transport of freight is twice as bad as it was then.

        http://www.pce.parliament.nz/media/pdfs/Hawkes-Bay-Expressway-Noise-and-air-quality-issues-June-2005.pdf

        Note the PCE recommended to use rail also here but the Government is still not really stepping up but we will meet government next month and hope they will finally get rail moving again.
    • OnceWasTim 12.2

      21 May 2018 at 3:43 pm

      Thanks @CG.
      Firstly, I always wondered what happened to Allanah …… – a name I could never pronounce so I always just thought of as Alan Coloured Potatoes…. so now, parked up as NZoA’s master of spin.
      Secondly, although I’m a firm supporter of CBB,but I’ve always thought of them (and Clair Curran for that matter), as being utterly unambitious when it comes to PSB.
      But then, I come from a belief that public money should be spent in the interests of the public that funds their existence. (Not too radical an idea really).
      It’s good to see Coloured Potatoes PR hack acknowledge that NZoA is a ‘Funding Agency’ only.
      The response kind of reminds me of the Funder/Provider model that was so in vogue during past Health reforms.
      So we have…..
      TVNZ complete with CEO, Board, Chairman and raft of administrators. As an SOE
      RNZ ditto but as a COE
      NuZull on Ear ditto
      Kordia ditto (but who I could suggest are giving better service to their commercial clients than they are to the non-commercial who once used to own the assets they ride on) – ll equipped with similar CEO, Board and all the rest of it.

      Then on top of all that, we have TMP and other funders such as MCH, TPK (if that’s still the case),
      It’s become a real bugger’s muddle, but not unlike many other bugger’s muddles rorted by neo-liberal ideology.

      Within each of the organisations above, we have some good people, but we also have a shitload of dross. In each, we also have a few good ideas who can’t seem to get together to rub them together.

      In terms of my initial belief that public money should be directed towards the public interest and its institutions, there is no fucking reason why we should not expect at least 3 radio networks (SUCH AS National, Concert and an on-air The Wireless, AND at least 2 FTA TV networks that provide news and current affairs, the arts and drama – no matter how pathetic – sport, and children’s interests).
      AND that’s even BEFORE we consider our committment to Te Tiriti issues (so perhaps a duty to provide facilities for MTS and an iwi network and local studios)
      • OnceWasTim 12.2.1

        21 May 2018 at 3:59 pm

        Oh fuck, I forgot ‘Freeview’ in amongst all that trying to be fair and balanced but who are only surviving on the basis of a Shopping Channel and like
        • greywarshark 12.2.1.1

          21 May 2018 at 4:23 pm

          Once was Tim
          It is not a good look making a great play of not being able to handle a not too difficult surname. Bit of a put down really telling everyone that Coloured Potatoes was how you
          managed the so-difficult ‘Kalafatelis’.

          I always encouraged my kids to break down difficult words into syllables even when that wasn’t the done thing at school. It is so practical and I have coped with Varoufakis, the Greek economist and am learning how to say the Turkish President or PMs name which is not said how it looks. We may be an isolated little Brit island but foreigners have been attracted here. There are tonnes of French locally for some reason. We have to try to get our minds around names at least.
          • OnceWasTim 12.2.1.1.1

            21 May 2018 at 7:37 pm

            actually @ Grey, more to do with misreading/and getting something stuck on the brain rather than mispronunciation.
            Never had a problem with Papadopolous or Phil Kafcaloudes whereas some keep saying kaTHcaloudes.
            A bit like seeing a van driving around town with ‘A J Smith and Sons Shopfitters’ and repeatedly misreding it as ‘ShopLIFTERS’

            In any event, I wondered what had happened to Kalafatelis and now I know PR and spin is obviously more lucrative. IF it’s the same person, was actually not a bad reporter in a previous life.
13. greywarshark 13

    21 May 2018 at 12:58 pm

    Yes Minister – the European Union didn’t have a chance against Britain. They decide they can’t take Greeks.
    

    Yanis Varoufakis on Britain!
    Question Time: Yanis Varoufakis delivers a devastating indictment of Britain’s governments 2017
    
14. Rosemary McDonald 14

    21 May 2018 at 2:50 pm

    Bomber gets it…https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/05/21/why-ashley-peacocks-appalling-treatment-makes-me-oppose-euthanasia/

    “Why Ashley Peacock’s appalling treatment makes me oppose euthanasia.

    Those on the front line of palliative care have out right rejected this drive for the State to sanction end of life…euthanasia is the perfect mutation of neoliberalism, the individualised choice to die in a system with public services as underfunded as NZ will be used to pressure the most vulnerable to commit suicide.”

    Kirsty Johnston won a Canon a year ago with her article about the continued miserable existence of Ashley Peacock. And he languishes while what appears to be a pissing contest between the Misery of Health and the Contracted Provider plays out.

    Julie Anne Genter is non committal in her response, which does not surprise me as it is my experience that she is idling under the delusion tat the goto people for information and advice regarding these issues are Miserly of Health bureaucrats.

    And who do we in the disability community turn to????

    The Opposition….? They pinned their colours to the mast in the 2013 budget.

    Labour, David Clark? I suspect he’s going to struggle with other aspects of his portfolio…and besides,

    JAG, as Associate Minister has been thrown disability.

    She needs to talk personally with all involved parties ( other than the Ministry of Health) and get to the bottom of what is the hold up. Put Ashley out of his misery…so to speak.

    Like, seriously….
    • AsleepWhileWalking 14.1

      21 May 2018 at 4:45 pm

      Its STILL dragging on?!

      Unbelievable. Only CCDHB could produce nothing over several years.

      Put a strong Maori woman in there and it will be sorted by this evening.
15. cleangreen 15

    21 May 2018 at 2:57 pm

    Brothers and sisters;

    Please make a submission supporting this admirable advance to our health and wellbeing as we place more resposiblitity on our local authorities instead of just for bussiness as national had done.

    We are to place our NGO before the closing time of friday 5pm

    We want to see this change to care for our communities more important than bussiness as usual.

    One change should be to include a clause stating that we the community must be actively particapating with local councils in all activities and changes that may affect our health, wealth, environment, cultural wellbeing.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1804/S00235/local-government-community-wellbeing-amendment-bill.htm

    Local Government (Community Wellbeing) Amendment Bill
    Friday, 20 April 2018, 1:19 pm
    Press Release: Office of the Clerk

    Media Release
    Organisation: Office of the Clerk of the House of Representatives On behalf of: Governance and Administration Committee
    For release: 20 April 2018
    Submissions open on the Local Government (Community Wellbeing) Amendment Bill
    The Governance and Administration Committee is accepting public submissions on the Local Government (Community Well-being) Amendment Bill.
    This bill aims to:
    • restore the purpose of local government to be “to promote the social, economic, environmental, and cultural well-being of communities”
    • restore territorial authorities’ power to collect development contributions for any public amenities needed as a consequence of development
    • make a minor modification to the development contributions power.
    Tell the Governance and Administration Committee what you think Send your submission on the bill by midnight on 25 May 2018.
    ttp://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1804/S00235/local-government-community-wellbeing-amendment-bill.htm
    • cleangreen 15.1

      21 May 2018 at 3:31 pm

      Fixed the link added the h missing.

      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1804/S00235/local-government-community-wellbeing-amendment-bill.htm
16. Ed 16

    21 May 2018 at 4:49 pm

    The utterly repugnant Franks on the Panel.
17. Ed 17

    21 May 2018 at 4:51 pm

    The utterly repugnant Franks on the Panel.
18. eco maori 18

    22 May 2018 at 6:54 am

    Good morning The AM Show the rain was hard last night the sandflys in Tauranga were playing up the ——I had a escort all the way to my Daughter house they were trying to bait me into – – – – but I had figured that I could – – – – – them.
    There are place in Atoearoa that are very – – – – – like havelock North whakatane these places have a high population of elderly whom are easily minupulate to vote against Maori the reason we have a big devided is because of this policy that they vote for its 2018.
    This cow Virus Bovi is another mess national has left Jacinda and her Coalition Government to clean up I had my say on the subject but I don’t have all the relevant information so my calls could be wrong I’m sure Jacinda will make the right decision to clean up this mess I just gave information that I say the public need to know.
    Ka kite ano P.S Some are still spinning to try and damage my – – – – but no te tangata know that ECO MAORI is genuine
    • eco maori 18.1

      22 May 2018 at 7:35 am

      This is how title change so fast from father to grandfather Papa in just 20 years we have to plan for a better future for the Mokopuna link bellow.

      https://youtu.be/LHCob76kigA
      Ka kite ano
      • eco maori 18.1.1

        22 May 2018 at 6:52 pm

        KGood evening Newshub Shecu and his family are really talented musicians Ka pai
        Some people are trying to undermine ECO MAORI Mana but know it won’t work the people know I’m genuine and my tipuna gave me these gifts my – – – – to use to benefit all being’s.
        There are not enough te tangata whenua and brown people who vote in the local elections thats going to change the low hanging fruit. Ka kite ano.P.S Ingrid Its good we are in Auckland at the minute it’s 2 degrees warmer here than Rotorua
19. eco maori 19

    22 May 2018 at 8:13 pm

    This is a awesome inspiration for Maori culture people 600 who attended a free
    Te reo lesson the link is Below

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/104115332/massive-crowd-gather-for-free-christchurch-te-reo-class Ka kite ano

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