Open mike 21/02/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 21st, 2013 - 169 comments
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169 comments on “Open mike 21/02/2013 ”

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  1. Jenny 1
    21 February 2013 at 6:13 am

    Ignoring climate change becomes the new reality.

    It used to be dismissively said, that when people wanted to avoid talking about controversial issues, “That all they just talked about was the weather”.

    This old homily has been turned on its head. It seems these days, everyone wants to talk about everything, except the weather.

    This month’s news stories missing, not just from our mainstream media but from the left blogosphere.

    First Cyclone Bopha, the worst Cyclone to hit the Southern Philippines, an area usually spared hurricanes because of its position close to the Equator. Despite the unprecedented devastation and scale, this disaster was mostly ignored at the time by the media here and overseas.

    With an estimated 216,000 houses destroyed or damaged, tens of thousands of people remain displaced, presenting a challenge for the government and aid agencies.

    The lack of international media coverage of Bopha may in part be explained – though not excused – by western-centric news values, and in part by the high incidence of storms in the Pacific region.

    The Guardian

    Bopha has now been directly linked to climate change by scientists and politicians who are telling the Filipino people to prepare for more climate related disasters.

    True to form this announcement has been greeted with total silence here, both from the right and the left. Most notably, from the environmental left, who were also silent at the time of both Bopha, and Sandy the lesser, but more widely reported Super Storm event.

    The other big climate change story ignored here in the media and the blogosphere this week; The biggest anti climate change rally in US history, which descended on the White House over the weekend. Which was quickly followed by a much smaller ‘rally’ of dark suited oil sands lobbyists.

    If anyone was paying attention, the burning question which should have the whole world glued to the edge of their seat, is which way will Obama go?

    Who will he heed, the protesters, or the oil lobbbyists?

    Obama has given no real indication of which way he will go, but there is no middle ground, or possible compromise that would be acceptable to both sides.

    He must come down on one side, or the other.

    Obama’s decision is due before the end of the Northern Spring.

    What will Obama’s decision be. and what will it mean for the planet, and indeed for Obama himself?

    It’s llke Hitler invaded Poland and the media and the politicians and all the other commentators just want to talk about everything else.

    May God forgive us.

    Future generations won’t.

    • Ennui in Requiem 1.1
      21 February 2013 at 7:42 am

      Jen, save your breath: on this and other political blogs the commentators are all still dancing on the heads of pins arguing the toss about who will get what etc.They don’t realize (or want to realize) that whatever it is they are wanting is going away fast. Meanwhile directly under their noses reality is acting very predictably BUT is studiously ignored, even denied. The petty issues argued with energy, the big ones left uncomprehended.

      • Colonial Weka 1.1.1
        21 February 2013 at 9:45 am

        “Jen, save your breath: on this and other political blogs the commentators are all still dancing on the heads of pins arguing the toss about who will get what etc.”

        Yeah, it’s not like ts has published anything useful about climate change in the past year 🙄

        /sarc

        When Jenny starts presenting something new, in a way that facilitates useful discussion, sans the lies and pejoratives against her natural allies, then I’ll start paying more attention to her posts.

        • Ennui in Requiem 1.1.1.1
          21 February 2013 at 10:06 am

          Yeah, save the whale! Or something else soft and cuddly.

          Meanwhile we will carry on arguing the toss about our “rights”, putting the “economy” back on track, and how much a family needs in their pockets to drive the SUV to the Warehouse.

          • Colonial Weka 1.1.1.1.1
            21 February 2013 at 1:36 pm

            You missed the point. There are ts authors and regular commenters here who (a) understand the seriousness of the situation and (b) want to do something about it. Jenny has almost entirely failed to engage those people. Worse, her spamming Open Mike and other places about AGW puts people off. There is a limit to how much telling off people can take. There is also a limit to how much information that one person can take in about AGW. When Jenny fills the space up with her moaning about the GP and her rhetoric about Churchill, and fails at presenting anything new or that can engage people, then she does us all a disservice, including the movements that are responding to CC. I’m not the only who has made that last point.

            How many people even read through the whole of her comments any more?

            Aside from that how did you find Bill’s series of posts about CC before Christmas?

            • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1.1.1
              21 February 2013 at 1:40 pm

              it’s surprising that self-righteous moral outrage and finger pointing doesn’t do much to win friends and influence people.

            • Ennui in Requiem 1.1.1.1.1.2
              21 February 2013 at 5:14 pm

              I suspect that Jenny has been beating her head on a brick wall. Her issues will however have far more impact than any niggling about Key and casinos or a plethora of other crap related to our past paradigm….a paradigm that has as its logical end result Jenny’s issues, and which makes every other issue a Nero fiddle playing distraction. Myself I reckon the occasional stir up of the denizens here wont make me any friends…but hey you wont hear from me when the power for your computer gets torn out by some global warming induced storm. You will however bitch like stink, but you will be disconnected and on your own.

              On Bills articles, yes he is onto it, they were good. The question I have is when everybody in the room can see the elephant why do they all stand there and continue to argue about who is paying for the pavlova?

              • QoT …
                21 February 2013 at 5:59 pm

                Gosh, this just in: multiple issues affect people’s lives simultaneously.

              • Colonial Weka …
                21 February 2013 at 7:22 pm

                “You will however bitch like stink, but you will be disconnected and on your own.”

                No, I won’t. You are like Jenny in this comment, in that you have no idea about the person you are talking to, where they sit in relation to CC, and thus you judge them wrongly and create division where you would instead do something constructive. The thing that pisses me off most about what Jenny does is the waste of time and resources, when she could be doing something useful. That’s a bit harsh perhaps – some of the information she posts probably does get read and links followed, but she wastes the opportunity to create useful and meaningful conversation here.

                As for Nero, I’d be interested in how you see any other way of engaging people politically re CC who are tied up in the details of their everyday lives.

                • Ennui in Requiem …
                  21 February 2013 at 7:45 pm

                  The Nero effect, yes. Its bloody difficult I admit to get divorced from everyday details in life: I can see where Jenny is coming from even if she gets no traction. The reality is that we are beyond being nice and constructive and all “democratic” etc about the dangers we have created. If we were fully cognizant and taking any notice as a polity it would be far more wild than 81 (and that was fairly extreme….we did however get our point across).

                  We all however are in this thing together, no heroes no villains. I tried to reduce my ecological impact and carbon footprint as an experiment, plus attempted to opt out of the consumer madness. Of course failure occurred, nobody is an island. What was obvious to me after this is that without a circuit breaker we will carry on blithely, arguing about Key etc until we are 6% hotter and under 90 meters of water. One thing is for sure, when the subject of CC or ecocide is discussed near me I no longer care to be friendly or hold back because it is all too easy to agree, smile and do nothing.

                  • Anne …
                    21 February 2013 at 8:12 pm

                    One thing is for sure, when the subject of CC or ecocide is discussed near me I no longer care to be friendly or hold back because it is all too easy to agree, smile and do nothing.

                    Yes it’s my hobby horse too, and I’ve been known to bore the pants off people with my CC rants. That isn’t surprising since knowledge of the weather was the essential requisite of my former career. But I have sympathy for Colonial Weka’s concern about Jenny. I admire Jenny for her persistence, but she doth protest too much sometimes. We can only move as fast as the ‘powers that be’ will allow us and that is not very far at the moment. Lecturing us as though we are part of the failure does not help the cause.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      21 February 2013 at 8:26 pm

                      We can only move as fast as the ‘powers that be’ will allow us and that is not very far at the moment.

                      The latest Archdruid Report is out. Greer makes an age old suggestion – band together and organise and self-fund in order to make the changes that central and local government so far refuse to.

                      http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.nz/2013/02/in-time-of-limits.html

                    • Ennui in Requiem …
                      21 February 2013 at 8:36 pm

                      The “powers who b”e have failed us so if we await them we wait till certain death. And who gives power to the “powers who be”? Answer is us, because we recognise them, and we are them or their images. CV points to the Archdruid who makes the point that central and local government have failed and its over to us, locally. Its worth reading.

                      As an aside what the Archdruid says about the welfare state flies somewhat in the face of those currently arguing details on this site over how the tax cake is sliced.

                    • muzza …
                      21 February 2013 at 9:11 pm

                      Not likely to get much traction out of people, because they are not yet able to see the fire. If they looked up into the sky on most given days, including today in AKL, they would realise that whats up there is something which did not use to be, and its coming down on you and your family friends, enemies the lot., its getting worse and its not going away…

                      If people can’t get to grips with the obvious amounts of aerosols in the skies, then they sure are not going to get to grips with resource pooling to save themselvews are they!

                      Heck, if that can;t raise eyebrows. its unlikely that anything ever will!

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      21 February 2013 at 11:14 pm

                      As an aside what the Archdruid says about the welfare state flies somewhat in the face of those currently arguing details on this site over how the tax cake is sliced.

                      Indeed, Greer suggests that the distinction between the ‘deserving’ and ‘underserving’ poor may be realistic as resources run down in the future.

                      It is important to note however that Greer is writing for a specifically American environment. In NZ, there is no need to ever, ever have anyone go hungry or cold.

                  • Colonial Weka …
                    21 February 2013 at 10:18 pm

                    “If we were fully cognizant and taking any notice as a polity it would be far more wild than 81”

                    True, but the difference is that in 1981 it wasn’t our whole existence that was at stake. I don’t think we can overstate how important cognitive dissonance is in the current situation. Unless we find ways of dealing with that, we can’t expect people to suddenly take to the streets.

                    • muzza …
                      22 February 2013 at 8:39 am

                      Thats right Weka, but I can’t see how you can use such teminology (cog diss)towards people who might not have their head around CC, when you have said on here previously, that you don’t accept that aerosoling of the skies is going on!

                      Cognitive dissonance is easry to aim towards others, innit!

                    • Colonial Weka …
                      22 February 2013 at 10:29 am

                      I don’t think I said that it’s not going on. I said I’d like to see some credible evidence. We have plenty of credible evidence that AGW is real, yet people cannot deal with it well cognitively/emotionally. When we have credible evidence of chemtrails, then we can see to what extent cognitive dissonance exists.

                    • muzza …
                      22 February 2013 at 2:14 pm

                      Weka – There is shed loads already out there, your just making excuses!

                      Perhaps just take a look upwards sometime, thats where the evidence is eh!

                      Your view – CC IS happening, we have the evidence, I believe it to be credible, so its definitely happening!

                      Your View – Spraying is not happening, even though the various agencies have admitted it, and there is a heap of evidence, but I don’t accept the evidence as credible, so its not happening!

                      The two are most likely related weka, discussions around the spraying to deflect the sun (even though the UN tell us, its not the problem) was floated years ago, which means it was being done prior to that time!

                      The consequences will be unknown, and its a very dim individual who looks up and thinks what that shite in the sky these days is, are clouds!

                      In any case, it makes no differnce what you think is or is not going on, its happening, the discussion moved onto the what/why some time back, pretending it isn’t, does not make it so!

                    • Colonial Weka …
                      22 February 2013 at 7:41 pm

                      Muzza, please show me exactly where I have said that it doesn’t happen.

                      Then show me some credible information supporting that it happens.

    • karol 1.2
      21 February 2013 at 8:53 am

      But not ignored by Kennedy Graham in his speech in the General Debate yesterday.

      I rise to ask this House to take time out from the largely Skycity-focused debate today to focus on the most important issue that is actually facing humanity. …

      Let this House ask the Prime Minister a few questions arising from the Security Council debate. Does he agree with the British climate change envoy that “the impacts of a changing climate pose a significant and emerging threat to a country’s national security and prosperity,”?

      Is he concerned by the advice from the German envoy that “rises in global temperature were likely to have catastrophic consequences … [and] humankind would venture into an uncertain future that is much hotter than every before in its history—so from a scientist’s perspective, climate change is a global risk multiplier.”?

      Does he agree with Oxfam’s plea to the Security Council to deal with climate change because “the global food system was already under severe stress as a result of droughts across the US, Africa and Asia.”? …

      Will he listen to the Marshall Islands Ambassador, who said: “Global warming threatens our very existence. Our roads are inundated every 14 days. We have to ration water three times a week. People have emergency kits for water. We can no longer use well water because it’s inundated with salt.”

      If so, will he direct a policy review on how New Zealand can assist Pacific Island States, including introducing a special annual quota of climate refugees?

      Finally, will he call in the ambassadors of Russia and China and ask them to explain their dubious insistence on making Friday’s Security Council meeting an informal one only?

      By emaciating our own emissions trading scheme and renouncing any legal obligation to cut emissions in this decade New Zealand now rivals Canada for the worst climate change policy in the world. All other developed countries and many developing countries, including major emerging economies, have more visionary and effective policies. It is time New Zealand got its act together for the sake of our own national security and long-term survival.

    • George D 1.3
      21 February 2013 at 5:20 pm

      I visit the NOAA ESRL site every week. Every week things are worse.

      http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/weekly.html

  2. Tigger 2
    21 February 2013 at 7:46 am

    Question for David Farrar.
    You make a big deal of how gay friendly you are. So why allow homophobia to fester on your blog? Small example, the vile asides that pepper this post. http://m.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/02/chauvel_resigns_from_parliament.html.

    Either squash the hateful speech (like you did for the ginga comment) or take down your rainbow flag.

    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.1
      21 February 2013 at 9:23 am

      Maybe you should ask him on his blog.

    • chris73 2.2
      21 February 2013 at 9:33 am

      Shearer allows homophobia to fester in Labour so why not ask him the same thing

    • Enough is Enough 2.3
      21 February 2013 at 11:51 am

      David has always operated a faily open forum. Basically anything goes which is why the comments section has descended into a fairly rough place to reside.

      Why are you asking him a questiion over here anyway?

  3. muzza 3
    21 February 2013 at 8:33 am

    David Shearer Nov 18 2012 says “there is a real issue when politicians get new ideas and try to interfere with the economy”

    How does this add up with his speech in the New Year 2013;

    “We desperately need real leadership now more than ever.
    The Global Financial Crisis has exposed the frailties of the old economic wisdom.
    The National Party believes the financial crisis is just a blip to get over. Their solution is to apply their failed ideas of the past over and over.
    They are wrong.
    The hands-off, simply leave it to the market approach has failed all over the world.
    We are on the cusp of a new era – when new thinking and leadership is needed to build wealth we can all share in.
    The world has changed. National hasn’t. It’s stuck in the past.
    We need a government that recognises times have changed.
    We need a Government that finds the courage to act, not better excuses for why we can’t.
    We need a government prepared to stand up for hardworking forgotten Kiwis.
    We need a smart, hands-on Government.
    A government that is prepared to be a player, not a spectator.
    That will be a Labour Government, and the Government I will lead.
    It’s about getting our priorities right, being thrifty about our economy.
    Bringing our debt under control.
    But being smart about how we tackle the massive challenges ahead.
    Above all, this country needs a government that chooses to act.

    Quite the juxtaposition you paint there David, you have no idea what you’re talking about, because….

    A: You actually don’t know what you’re talking about,
    &
    B: Because someone else wrote the words you repeated
    C: You do understand the reality (somewhat), but because you have been put into this position, you are being bent into all sorts of positions, no matter how ridiculous it makes you appear.

  4. johnm 4
    21 February 2013 at 8:56 am

    More from the artist taxi driver on the diabolical U$K situation. Poor Bashing. 🙁

  6. karol 6
    21 February 2013 at 9:08 am

    There are alternatives, and South American countries have been pursuing them, Seumas Milne has written about some of the things that have been happening in South America for a decade. The powerful elites have been trying to smear these attempts at alternatives by labeling them as dictatorial states/governments.

    Despite their differences, it’s not hard to see why. Latin America was the first to experience the disastrous impact of neoliberal dogma and the first to revolt against it. …

    Many of the things, in fact, that conventional “free market” orthodoxy insists will lead to ruin, but have instead delivered rapid growth and social progress. Correa’s government has also closed the US military base at Manta (he’d reconsider, he said, if the US “let us put a military base in Miami”), expanded gay, disability and indigenous rights and adopted some of the most radical environmental policies in the world. Those include the Yasuni initiative, under which Ecuador waives its right to exploit oil in a uniquely biodiverse part of the Amazon in return for international contributions to renewable energy projects.

    But what is happening in Ecuador is only part of a progressive tide that has swept Latin America, as social democratic and radical socialist governments have attacked social and racial inequality, challenged US domination and begun to create genuine regional integration and independence for the first time in 500 years. And given what’s already been delivered to the majority, it’s hardly surprising they keep getting re-elected.

    While everything is not perfect in Ecuador and other Sth American countries, they are showing the way to a new and better direction.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.1
      21 February 2013 at 9:44 am

      A new and better way is possible. We just have to do it against the backdrop of the capitalist spun BS in the MSM. Once we do that then there’s no way that we will go back to the pure capitalist paradigm that we’ve had pushed upon us over the last 30+ years as most people will be better off.

  7. Adrian 7
    21 February 2013 at 9:15 am

    Acording to Granny Herald she’s done it again, Shipley is chair of Sentinel Assurrance and it is in the shit and sounds like it has broken the law in not having enough funds set aside. Shipley is the kiss of death to any company she is associated with and this must make it the 5th or 6th that has gone tits up.
    Anybody else would have been facing calls to not be allowed to run a company.

  8. Rosie 8
    21 February 2013 at 9:15 am

    Number 134 on the list of things of a new govt can do to contribute to the recreation and building of a decent society is to introduce some genuinely compassionate codes of welfare for farmed animals. Codes that should be carefully monitored and enforced.

    The attitude of the prosecutor for the MPI is appalling and unacceptable in regard to the practice is twisting a cows tail to force it to submit to the will of the dairy hand:

    “The prosecutor for the Ministry of Primary Industries, Grant Fletcher, said there was an industry understanding that a degree of force was used to put cows into dairy sheds”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/8327272/Dairy-farmer-injured-cows

    • Colonial Weka 8.1
      21 February 2013 at 9:52 am

      Diary cows on industrial farms are slaves. Why shouldn’t they be treated as such?

    • Ennui in Requiem 8.2
      21 February 2013 at 9:58 am

      Rosie, in my ambulations around the rustic scene the plight of the beasts is very unsettling: what we have is “stock units” on balance sheet driven industrial farms. The assumption is that these are $s and not sentient creatures who need food, shelter and comfort.

      Not all farmers are as callous to the state of their stocks health, I could show you many (but unfortunately a small minority) who provide plenty of shade and shelter from the elements, and who care about their stocks welfare.

      This will of course change: prior to the modern industrial epoch limited energy made huge farms impossible, and stock care of smaller herds etc was up close and personal with the farmer. Happily the end of cheap / available oil will change industrial farms back into these smaller holdings where animal welfare without chemical / pharmaceutical / fertiliser inputs make the welfare of stock central to a farmers livelihood. The brand of tractor will be “oxen” or “horse”, the quad bike the humble “donkey”.

      One happy scenario out of what will be majorly a painful decline.

      • Rosie 8.2.1
        21 February 2013 at 10:28 am

        Hi E in R.
        I’ve also had the opportunity to meet some thoughtful farmers and would prefer to consume the product of their lovely contented cows, rather than the product that is miserably forced out our unhappy “stock units”.
        Modern industrial farming is indeed hugely resource depleting, cruel and completely unsustainable especially when dairying is moved to land unsuitable for such purposes, eg, Canterbury. I have a feeling we’ve had this conversation before so I’ll leave it at your prediction.
        Unfortunately we can’t predict that the behaviour of individuals will change. There will always be those who will violently, either physically, psychologically,or both, inflict their will on fellow humans and animals.

        • Colonial Viper 8.2.1.1
          21 February 2013 at 10:38 am

          Reduce farm property prices and mortgages, and a lot of farmers will happily destock their land.

        • Ennui in Requiem 8.2.1.2
          21 February 2013 at 12:56 pm

          Yes there will always be some bad eggs: I note that some of societies perceived bad eggs drive “bogan” cars and display lavish loving attention to these mechanical marvels. Wait till they have a donkey…you cant pimp one of these but expect similar loving care will be given!

          • Rosie 8.2.1.2.1
            21 February 2013 at 5:35 pm

            Bogan cars……….A few days ago there was an article on stuffed about a bloke on the Kapiti coast who purchased a device to reduce his car engines petrol consumption – some sort of hydro-into-fuel converter (please don’t ask details) I can’t find the article now but anywhoo his son uses the same device in his 4L 2012 model holden commodore and is currently saving 30% on fuel costs. Now theres a responsible switched on bogan for ya!

      • muzza 8.2.2
        21 February 2013 at 1:02 pm

        what we have is “stock units” on balance sheet driven industrial farms. The assumption is that these are $s and not sentient creatures who need food, shelter and comfort.

        Human beings are seen exactly the same, why would the other animals be treated any differently
        We are all caught inside this insane trap, so insane that people think its *normal*!

        • Rosie 8.2.2.1
          21 February 2013 at 5:53 pm

          Hi Muzza. I agree that humans are viewed as a resource to be exploited. But the difference is humans have the ability to prevent this through learning, resisting, organising and setting examples.
          Farmed animals can’t and are reliant on their predator to provide the essentials of food, water, shelter, care and respect for the time of their usefulness to that predator – us.

          The example above of the twisting of the cows tails as a form of control is only one of many abuses dairy cows face however I was dissapointed that the Ministry finds this an acceptable practice, not surprised but dissapointed. National do have a track record when it comes to ignoring animal welfare, especially during times when the members of the federated farmers lobby are within parliament (David Carter, Nathan Guy to name a few)Just last night on 3 news Nathan Guy shrugged in response to a reporters question regarding opening an inquriy into cruelty and death within the greyhound racing industry. His response? “The industry are already looking into it” Couldn’t give a flying F**K. Having received letters in reply to mine (and from others known to me who are actual Nat voters) after raising animal welfare issues its clear to me they have no intention of firming up animal protection legislation.

          • muzza 8.2.2.1.1
            21 February 2013 at 9:18 pm

            Hi Rosie, trust you’re feeling better this week, animal cruelty aside..

            I hear what your saying there, howver it seems that there are many who simply don’t see it thatr way at all, and in the end we will all lose because of such attitudes.

            Interesting to note the reactions from the MPs towards animanls, their reactions are telling, as it is how they really feel towards human beings, they lie and spin to cover but on reality , our rulers have been told that they are above the rest of us and act accordingly. They foolishly can;t understand that as our rulers, they still remain beneath their masters, which will mean they suffer the same fate as the animals they shrug off!

  9. Colonial Viper 9
    21 February 2013 at 9:33 am

    RT interviews Ecuador’s Correa

    Talks about poverty, socialism and elitism in Latin America.

    • Colonial Viper 9.1
      21 February 2013 at 9:37 am

      I should add, this President’s popularity rating regularly tops 70% in polling.

    • rosy 9.2
      21 February 2013 at 10:02 am

      There’s also a good article in the Guardian by Seumas Milne about how the Latin American countries, including Ecuador are proving an alternative to the economic consensus in Western governments is possible and popular.

      Despite their differences, it’s not hard to see why. Latin America was the first to experience the disastrous impact of neoliberal dogma and the first to revolt against it. Correa was originally elected in the wake of an economic collapse so devastating that one in 10 left the country. Since then his “citizen’s revolution” has cut poverty by nearly a third and extreme poverty by 45%. Unemployment has been slashed, while social security, free health and education have been rapidly expanded – including free higher education, now a constitutional right – while outsourcing has been outlawed.

      And that has been achieved not only by using Ecuador’s limited oil wealth to benefit the majority, but by making corporations and the well-off pay their taxes (receipts have almost tripled in six years), raising public investment to 15% of national income, extending public ownership, tough renegotiation of oil contracts and re-regulating the banking system to support development.

      • Colonial Viper 9.2.1
        21 February 2013 at 11:54 am

        Yep Latin Americans know what colonisation and exploitation looks and smells like, no matter the modern garb it wears.

        • Adele 9.2.1.1
          21 February 2013 at 7:37 pm

          Kiaora Colonial Viper,

          Please clarify, are you saying that aspects of Latin American development is simply

          colonialism in disguise,

          or

          an exemplar to indigeneity

          exercising ‘tino rangatiratanga’

          sovereignty.

          • Colonial Viper 9.2.1.1.1
            22 February 2013 at 12:59 am

            Kia Ora Adele,

            I was referring to the many many decades of interference, oppression and subjugation: military, political and economic, that the ordinary indigenous people of Latin America have faced (and become all too familiar with) from countries like Spain, Portugal, USA and others, often through local dictators and strongmen chosen and supported by those foreign powers.

  10. yeshe 10
    21 February 2013 at 10:19 am

    We used to be so good at this kind of thing (sigh) …. great story from Lancashire today by Pat Pilcher ..

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10866616

    • Draco T Bastard 10.1
      21 February 2013 at 10:55 am

      That’s what Telecom used to be, the entire country getting together to get telecommunications out to everyone. Now we have “competition”, increased bureaucracy and a network going backwards due to the dead weight loss of profit.

      • TheContrarian 10.1.1
        21 February 2013 at 11:08 am

        Well instead of moaning about it Draco go out and do it.

        • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1
          21 February 2013 at 11:28 am

          Sure because 1 man can match the ability and influence of an $80B government. Grow up TC don’t fall for that shit.

          • TheContrarian 10.1.1.1.1
            21 February 2013 at 11:36 am

            Did you read the linked article, CV?

            Those British farmers went and did it and the British Govt is richer and more powerful than NZ

            • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.1.1
              21 February 2013 at 11:57 am

              They did it for 23 villages and a few thousand users in one county.

              • TheContrarian …
                21 February 2013 at 12:21 pm

                Well then instead of looking at what they did wistfully, go out and do the same.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  21 February 2013 at 6:59 pm

                  When I do, you won’t be invited.

                  • The Al1en …
                    21 February 2013 at 7:02 pm

                    Unless we’re running short on vegetables, in which you’re welcome… If you promise to bring some turnip friends with you 😆

                    • The Al1en …
                      21 February 2013 at 7:05 pm

                      Dear internet.
                      I wish to express my displeasure with the above comment, and as a consequence of said, will now not be renewing my colour tv licence until the final due date in protest.
                      Shame on you.

                      Disgruntled,
                      Cheam.

                  • TheContrarian …
                    21 February 2013 at 7:20 pm

                    Good luck – make sure to lets us know what initiative you have started.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      22 February 2013 at 1:02 am

                      Thanks mate. Actually, you’ll certainly be invited with many other Standardistas and I hope you will attend; after all it wouldn’t be much of a collective project if I was the only person there.

                    • TheContrarian …
                      22 February 2013 at 8:46 am

                      I’m always willing to help if I am able

        • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.2
          21 February 2013 at 12:15 pm

          You failed to understand. We had it and then we got the neo-liberal BS that took it from us.

          • TheContrarian 10.1.1.2.1
            21 February 2013 at 12:23 pm

            “We had it and then we got the neo-liberal BS that took it from us.”

            The UK is easily as neo-liberal as NZ and a group of farmers took some of it back.
            Why don’t you try and do the same instead of lamenting it on The Standard?

            • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.2.1.1
              21 February 2013 at 12:26 pm

              You still fail to understand – for a country of NZs population it needs to be the entire country that does it and not just a few people here and there.

              • TheContrarian …
                21 February 2013 at 12:37 pm

                You have to start somewhere – here’s a good example of a community pulling together.

                http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10866616

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  21 February 2013 at 12:41 pm

                  We did start somewhere – it was back last century and then we had it taken from us through the lies and misdirections of the governments and economists. Now we have to start again because of that BS. Unfortunately, we have idiots like you standing in the way.

                  • TheContrarian …
                    21 February 2013 at 12:44 pm

                    I’m not standing in the way of you doing anything Draco so you can dispense with your one line ad homs.

                    What we have here is what I am sure we agree is a great story of a community coming together to solve a problem and instead of being inspired you’re wringing your hands about how the government took it all away from you.

                    Why don’t you follow their example and start again like the community cited?

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      21 February 2013 at 4:27 pm

                      Two things:
                      1.) My first comment was on how we’d lost that community spirit due to governments for the last thirty years bowing down to the cult of greed and individualism and
                      2.) I am trying but instead of trying at a small local level I’m trying at the national level due to the nature of NZ, i.e, not such a huge population

                      And you are standing in the way whether you like to think you are or not because happen to be one of the idiots bowing down to the cult of greed and individualism.

                    • TheContrarian …
                      21 February 2013 at 5:03 pm

                      So these gentleman are doing something on a local level which has now got worldwide attention. So what are you doing on a national level then?

                      “And you are standing in the way whether you like to think you are or not because happen to be one of the idiots bowing down to the cult of greed and individualism.”

                      I have done nothing to “stand in the way” and if you were in my community with a project as linked I’d be the first to offer my help.

                      Justify your insulting ad hom.

                    • ropata …
                      21 February 2013 at 5:11 pm

                      yeah draco there’s a third way between free market fundamentalism and a socially just society. it’s called blairite lip service, dunnokeyo is an accomplished practitioner

                    • TheContrarian …
                      21 February 2013 at 5:15 pm

                      I am just curious about why Draco thinks he can’t put together something the same as these gentlemen because “NZ is too small!” sounds like bullshit.

                      I’d also like to know what success he is having, in relation to community based projects such as the linked example, with his national focus and what he is actually doing

                      It looks like Draco would rather complain about it than do something

                    • vto …
                      21 February 2013 at 5:22 pm

                      It’s all a bit simplistic isn’t Contrario? Discussing issues is one way of getting traction on things (i.e. thrashing around on a blogo) of course. If nobody complained about anything how would anyone know if things were ok or not? And then of course, doing something physical is another. Usually both approaches lead to the outcome. One without the other is an impossibility. This blog is one of those things.

                      As for what Mr DTB gets up to outside this murky world we inhabit, if he wants to answer that is hisher choice but harassment for such details is naughty and useless you naughty boy.

  11. Colonial Viper 11
    21 February 2013 at 10:36 am

    Some actual proper Labor/Coalition leadership analysis (Sydney Morning Herald)

    Video analysis and article quite good, but both far and away superior to our usual trash on this side of the Tasman.

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/final-nail-in-pms-coffin-20130218-2end2.html

  12. Rogue Trooper 12
    21 February 2013 at 10:54 am

    Carter appears to be a Control Freak (oh well, he is in good company)

  13. David 13
    21 February 2013 at 11:07 am

    David Carter is a silly old goat, and reinforces my point that the entire generation in question, namely Richard Prosser’s generation, needs to be put out to pasture very quickly, they are all incredibly unhelpful and borderline stupid.

  14. Rogue Trooper 14
    21 February 2013 at 11:12 am

    Metiria was certainly a real rottweiler going at the heels of JoKeyhen (breached parliamentary privilage?)
    Chetser Burrows- “welfare not to be taken advantage of by the “greedy” “; that’s a bit rich
    Cosgrove- “national electricity demand may drop 14-15% (Tiwai Unplugged for starters)
    (Electricity Futures Market- prices may rise lower than inflation), meanwhile,

    Tony (give that man an Oscar) Ryall acknowledges that “our nation’s debt is growing sharply”

    TPPA / Investor State Dispute Provisions; Groser wimping out? Hague, not vague; “NAct a timid government”

    Pict ure that midge Horan “out of order” and likely out of the bedroom with broomsticks.

    During ChCh school merger submissions some of the schools concerned (parents etc attacked each other over “concerns about the behaviour” at receiving schools; ‘I’ll cut you in I’ll cut you in, on 20% of my future sin…

    according to THE NEWS tax avoiders DEFRAUDED to the sweet tune of 1B last year…while Sky City wants an annual handout from the taxpayer as an on-going budget for ‘marketing”, and some “regulatory” relief thrown in- Egglestone

    if I had the resources I would adopt a Greyhound; 1200 lost hounds “unaccounted for” a ‘bloodsport”

    Nathan Guy-“it will be interesting for me to understand their enquiries when they conclude”. Yep!

    Hong Kong Garden take-away; P.L.A 61398 cost U.S 100B and 1000’s of jobs last year., ‘Dude, who stole your star?
    did you know that the ‘Fed” has noted growing concerns about the efficacy of QE?

  15. Rogue Trooper 15
    21 February 2013 at 11:22 am

    for tao’s sake

    ‘It was when the Great Way declined that human kindness and morality arose;
    It was when intelligence and knowledge appeared
    That the Great Artifice began.
    It was when the six near ones were no longer at peace
    That there was talk of “dutiful sons”;
    Nor till fatherland was dark with strife
    Did we hear of “loyal slaves”.”

    ‘When the world has the Way,
    running horses are retired to till the fields.
    When the world lacks the Way,
    war-horses are bred in the countryside.
    No crime is greater than approving of greed;
    no calamity is greater than discontent,
    no fault is greater than possessiveness.
    So the satisfaction of contentment is always enough.”

    ‘When the government is unobtrusive,
    the people are pure.
    When the government is invasive,
    the people are wanting.
    Calamity is what fortune depends upon;
    fortune is what calamity subdues.
    Who knows how it will all end?”

  16. cricklewood 16
    21 February 2013 at 12:03 pm

    As an interesting study,

    Bulgarians are now out on the streets in protest over the spectacular rise in power prices they are experiencing. In many cases the cost of power outstrips the monthly earning of even a teacher.
    These rises are due to profit gouging by the overseas owners of said companys or purchased the power companies for a song at the fall of communism. Not doubt they oiled some palms in some way or another at the time.
    Either way it is a good demonstration of what happens when you lose control of something as vital as a power supply.

    Bulgarians as a people have put up with a lot of crap over the last decade and there is extreme hardship facing many people so I pick that the shit could really it the fan in th elead up to the forthcoming elections…

  17. Draco T Bastard 17
    21 February 2013 at 12:17 pm

    Urban Math

    It is increasingly clear that there is a common theme to almost all of the major differences of opinion around the issues we cover on this site. The same theme that I think sums up the contrasting world views of the Auckland Council and the current government. And that is basically around questions of the idea of the city. Is a city a good and valuable thing? Do we really want to encourage it?

    I particularly liked the mention of the most important network at 9:45 in the video.

  18. beatie 18
    21 February 2013 at 12:31 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10866718

    ‘The Labour Party supported the principle of eliminating welfare fraud but was concerned that it could penalise people who were unaware of their partner’s fraudulent activity.

    Social development spokeswoman Jacinda Ardern also highlighted that the removal of the need to inform beneficiaries that they were under investigation could lead to a more inefficient system which victimised people on Government support.

    But she did not go as far as promising a repeal of the bill if Labour was elected.’

    WHY NOT!

    FFS Get off the fence Labour!

    • QoT 18.1
      21 February 2013 at 11:40 pm

      It’s Opposition politics 101: “if you intend to oppose a law proposed or passed by the sitting government, you WILL be asked by media if you promise to repeal it. Have an answer prepared. If the answer is “no we won’t” or “I can’t say”, GTFO of opposition politics.”

    • Murray Olsen 18.2
      22 February 2013 at 1:00 am

      Her reply on this drove home to me even more just how lost Labour is. After this performance, why should anyone interested in basic human decency, equality before the law and the right to a dignified existence see any reason to vote Labour. That answer is not on the fence, it’s well to the right of it.

    • felixviper 18.3
      23 February 2013 at 9:47 am

      Oh ffs.

      You can’t say something will victimise people and be inefficient and then effectively support its retention.

      Guess I can cross Jacinda off my ever shortening list of Labour MPs I hold out hope for.

    • Rogue Trooper 20.1
      21 February 2013 at 1:47 pm

      “you’ll be, wrapped around my finger…” (Have a great day; not a cloud in the sky here yesterday)

  21. ropata 21
    21 February 2013 at 2:04 pm

    The Banks Are In Charge Of The Economy

    Karl Polanyi began his famous 1944 treatise, “The Great Transformation”, with the following words:
    “Nineteenth-century civilization has collapsed. This book is concerned with the political and economic origins of this event …”

    Irving Fisher’s 1936 Chicago Plan called for a separated monetary and credit function. This would:
    1) Lead to much better control of the business cycle by providing a more stable monetary platform.
    2) Eliminate bank runs.
    3) Dramatically reduce net public debt.
    4) Dramatically reduce private debt, as money creation no longer requires simultaneous debt creation.

    Here is a video with Michael Kumhof explaining the Chicago Plan Revisited
    http://youtu.be/YnAtHbDptj8

    • Colonial Viper 21.1
      21 February 2013 at 8:58 pm

      You’re on to it.

      • ropata 21.1.1
        22 February 2013 at 7:32 am

        Not just me, this is from the *IMF* !
        Can’t see our Bankster owned western ‘democracies’ doing this in the near future tho 🙁

        • Draco T Bastard 21.1.1.1
          22 February 2013 at 8:31 am

          Well, a few people at the IMF have woken up to the fact that the financial system (and thus the “economy”) is broken but it (The Chicago Plan) is still not IMF policy.

  22. The Al1en 22
    21 February 2013 at 2:15 pm

    Voluntary code for infant formula revised

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10866834

    “Formula donated in an emergency cannot be given directly to families and would be given only to infants medically required to be fed using formula, under the revised voluntary code.”

    Good luck guarding the stash from a mob of mothers and fathers with hungry children.
    Not worth the minimum wage, Mr security.

    What about bird flu? Will the government give supplies of antiviral drugs to beneficiaries or force them to go without for lack of money?
    Is staying alive a recoverable cost?

  23. bad12 23
    21 February 2013 at 4:07 pm

    On a road to nowhere???, more like on a road to perpetual bankruptcy, who would believe that this is actually being discussed by supposedly ‘sane’ people,

    The Land Transport Agency has admitted that the proposed Public/Private model to be used to build Wellington’s Transmission Gully Motorway will cost triple the billion dollars it would have cost by that Agency simply putting the construction out to tender,

    ‘Financial costs’ so the Transport Agency says, will mean that instead of the billion dollars of actual construction of Transmission Gully the taxpayer will be stung continually into the future with costs of another 2 billion dollars over and above the cost of construction,

    Building such ‘white elephant’ motorways by such means simply makes a mockery of cost/benefit ratios where the ongoing costs triple the original build cost and provide little to ease the choke points on the Wellington motorway system, simply ensuring even more vehicles arrive at such choke points together in rush hour conditions,

    For $100 million dollars parking buildings to enable ‘park and ride’ to reach it’s full potential could be built at stations such as Paraparaumu, Pukerua Bay, Mana, Paremata, Porirua and Tawa which would take hundreds if not thousands of commuters off of the motorway system at peak use times,

    The same system of parking buildings could be attached to all the major train stations along the Hutt line of the railway system ensuring the removal of hundreds, if not thousands of motorists from the motorway system,

    Watching this Government build ‘white elephant’ motorways that will cost us all triple what their actual value is is akin to watching a tribe of Neanderthalic primitives fight over a bunch of bananas…

    • Draco T Bastard 23.1
      21 February 2013 at 4:34 pm

      Building those roads was never about the roads or the need for infrastructure but about paying out taxpayer monies to NACTs rich mates. I’d say that tripling the costs is proof enough of that.

    • vto 23.2
      21 February 2013 at 4:51 pm

      bad12, your outline there also highlights the costs to all of society in utilising the interest-bearing money printing system we have. Take your tripling of costs and apply that pretty much right across society’s costs, especially housing, et voila…. a depressing thought. Imagine if all that work and sweat and tears (our money) going to pay for stupid printed dollar bills.

      The financial system is a crock of the highest magnitude. Why do you think it is not taught in schools?

      • ropata 23.2.1
        21 February 2013 at 5:28 pm

        I suffered through the standard economics curriculum in 7th form, Mankiw’s awfully written textbook “Principles of Microeconomics” was entirely to blame for my bad result. Now I know why it just didn’t compute… it was complete bullshit.

        Students at Harvard University on Tuesday, November 1st walked out of Professor N. Gregory Mankiw’s Ec 10, “Principles of Economics” course, for two main reasons.

        First, to declare their solidarity with the Occupy Wall Street Movement, and indeed, occupy movements currently happening all across the world.

        Second, to protest the specific role played by Mankiw’s course in perpetuating inequalities of wealth and power, which have plagued American (and world) capitalism for decades, if not centuries.

        As the Harvard students put it in their open letter to Professor Mankiw, they are concerned with the political bias inherent in Mankiw’s text, as well as how it “affects students, the University, and our greater society.”

        But what does it really mean to say that Mankiw, his class, and his textbook are responsible for such things?

        The students state in the letter how Mankiw rarely includes a discussion of primary sources and often slants toward the classical model of political economy, expounded most famously by Adam Smith. This bias stands to the detriment of other important schools of economic thought such as Keynesianism. But the problem with his course goes a bit deeper than that. While Mankiw might argue that his New Keynesian approach to macroeconomics combines the best of both Keynesian analyses of the short run and classical views of the long run, the fact is that both Adam Smith and John Maynard Keynes understood that the economic laws of the market are not immutable “principles” of society — a point which, unfortunately, leaves Mankiw less in the camp of either of these great thinkers, and more in the realm of political ideologues and pundits.

        That is to say, the self-interested agent who “faces tradeoffs” and “responds to economic incentives”, as Mankiw’s “10 principles of economics” assert, describes but a very small part of our daily lives. Whether you’re with your friends, or at home with your family, values of cooperation, love, friendship define your day-to-day interactions. Even political power is an important concept, not given even a single mention in Mankiw’s entire text! The idea that those who are wealthy might institute political power over the economic system is an idea that, indeed, goes back to Adam Smith himself. Choosing not to discuss such an economically-relevant and important topic demonstrates a severe lack of intellectual and moral integrity on the part of Mankiw and his textbook. In other words, the whole market-centric approach of Mankiw’s course is fundamentally at odds with how the world works in reality.

        So given that Mankiw’s course, textbook, blog, and ideology are at odds with the actual workings of social and economic life, and even help to perpetuate our societal and economic problems through producing this image of the individual as completely oriented toward market values and ideas, it’s probably time to expand the economic conversation towards more pluralism and away from hegemonic, ideologue set-in-stone “principles”.

        • Colonial Viper 23.2.1.1
          21 February 2013 at 5:45 pm

          Adam Smith wrote extensively about the principles of aesthetics and natural beauty, apart from his writings in economics – within which he also incorporated a lot of philosophical values.

          Very few people remember that.

          • Draco T Bastard 23.2.1.1.1
            21 February 2013 at 9:13 pm

            …within which he also incorporated a lot of philosophical values.

            That is probably because he started off as a philosopher and realised that economics had a moral and political dimension as well as a merely financial. Something that contemporary economists seem to fail to realise.

            • Colonial Viper 23.2.1.1.1.1
              22 February 2013 at 1:28 am

              Indeed

              How selfish soever man may be supposed, there are evidently some principles in his nature, which interest him in the fortunes of others, and render their happiness necessary to him, though he derives nothing from it, except the pleasure of seeing it. Of this kind is pity or compassion, the emotion we feel for the misery of others, when we either see it, or are made to conceive it in a very lively manner. That we often derive sorrow from the sorrows of others, is a matter of fact too obvious to require any instances to prove it; for this sentiment, like all the other original passions of human nature, is by no means confined to the virtuous or the humane, though they perhaps may feel it with the most exquisite sensibility. The greatest ruffian, the most hardened violator of the laws of society, is not altogether without it.

      • bad12 23.2.2
        21 February 2013 at 5:30 pm

        Yep, i cannot find any disagreement with either your comment or the one above you, putting aside the question of the ‘need’ for Transmission Gully for the moment it is easy to identify this and other like projects as part of where Government should in fact be the actual builder of the asset along with the financier of note,

        Simply having the Reserve Bank of New Zealand produce the necessary finance at 0% interest so as to enable a ‘new’ State owned builder to construct such projects would have it’s actual cost at a third of the price of involving the private sector,

        In such a case once the asset,Transmission Gully, was completed the debt could then be ‘retired’ as the asset justifies the total of the debt

        The one codicil that need be constantly stressed and kept in mind is that such projects built and funded in such a manner need fully take into consideration the Reserve Bank’s Inflationary Targets Band, which a carefully considered timeline of construction of such projects built and funded by such a means would negate any undue inflationary aspects of such construction…

  24. mickysavage 24
    21 February 2013 at 5:13 pm

    Hmmm

    Solid energy is in crisis http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10866874

    Ain’t no way it is going to be privatised any time soon …

    • ScottGN 24.1
      21 February 2013 at 5:22 pm

      Oh look? More hands off economic management from the Government and Solid Energy goes down the toilet…

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 24.1.1
        21 February 2013 at 5:37 pm

        The government owns Solid Energy and appoints its Board. How is that hands off?

        • ScottGN 24.1.1.1
          21 February 2013 at 5:47 pm

          So we can blame Key, English, Joyce etc for the collapse of this SOE?

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 24.1.1.1.1
            21 February 2013 at 6:05 pm

            Yes. But don’t then go on to say that you want government to own and run all parts of the economy. They’re provenly shit at it.

        • Colonial Viper 24.1.1.2
          21 February 2013 at 5:51 pm

          The government owns Solid Energy and appoints its Board. How is that hands off?

          Wow. I own my lawn and I’ve appointed a guy to cut it. And I’ve done that in order to be hands off.

          • ScottGN 24.1.1.2.1
            21 February 2013 at 5:54 pm

            Clayton Cosgrove just summed it up on Checkpoint “What does Tony Ryall do with his day?”

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 24.1.1.2.2
            21 February 2013 at 6:10 pm

            What are you after, exactly? John Key popping in every day with his lunch pail and telling them where to dig?

            • McFlock 24.1.1.2.2.1
              22 February 2013 at 12:03 am

              Maybe some happy medium, like having a chat and requiring the board to make changes before there’s a crisis?

              Four years to do something. Driven into the ground like rail.

              • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
                22 February 2013 at 9:40 am

                I know you think John Key is amazing, but don’t you think it’s expecting a bit much of him to know all of the ins and outs of running a coal company?

                • McFlock …
                  22 February 2013 at 11:17 am

                  nah, but it would be nice if ministers could understand what their charges were doing. On a related point, it would also be nice if our pm could appoint competent ministers.

                • felixviper …
                  23 February 2013 at 9:40 am

                  He’s supposed to know the ins and outs of running the fucking country, Ole.

                  So no, it’s not too much to ask that he appoint someone capable of appointing people capable of running a coal company.

                  Not too much at all, it’s exactly the fucking job we pay him to do.

        • bad12 24.1.1.3
          21 February 2013 at 5:52 pm

          SO, this present Slippery lead National Government having had 4 years in which to put in place a board sufficiently robust so as to be able to address the debt loading of the States coal miner Solid Energy has at the least been remiss in this duty and therefore must be held by the electorate to be responsible for the State’s coal miner’s current predicament…

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 24.1.1.3.1
            21 February 2013 at 6:16 pm

            Why the FUCK do we own a coal mining company?

            • Descendant Of Sssmith 24.1.1.3.1.1
              21 February 2013 at 6:32 pm

              Because it was part of an integrated energy supply network that the state used to own for the benefit of the whole country.

              The SOE model and the fake competition ensuing increased costs, increased power prices, put large amounts of money into executive profit, duplicated infrastructure and removed any sense of collective co-ordination.

              The correct question is why do have have such a fucked up fake competition model when the state should simply own and manage the whole lot for the benefit of all?

            • bad12 24.1.1.3.1.2
              21 February 2013 at 7:21 pm

              There, there Gormless no need to prove yourself the fool, we here at the Standard have long admired your particular personal penchant for 100% foolish comments guaranteed,

              i can well imagine the argument you have proposed here being the same argument put to the National Government Cabinet when it next meets,

              In fact your comments show a perfect timeline of the ‘thoughts’ of the right on such ownership, from the appointment of those who at board level have run the Stes mining operation into the ground right through the ”why the fuck” of your latest little snivel of a comment which is in effect the final act of those who simply refuse to take responsibility for their actions,

              This is the Government of Saint Slippery of Bankers is it not, was not this individual trumpeted by you lot as the master business brain that would have New Zealand being the Singapore of the South Pacific in no time at all,

              Where is this stunning transformation of the New Zealand economy from Saint Slippery, the gutting of Solid Energy just another step in the impoverishment of our country by the Shyster acting more on the behalf of His former employers than He has the people of New Zealand…

          • Draco T Bastard 24.1.1.3.2
            21 February 2013 at 9:17 pm

            WTF is a state owned enterprise even in debt to private banks?

        • Trickledrown 24.1.1.4
          21 February 2013 at 11:51 pm

          Fool its an SOE which is run as all other plc,s !
          National haven’t got a clue or are they secretly looking for the green vote!
          Doing nothing about the high $ is hands off!
          Jobs are being lost at an alarming rate across the country
          and all we get is smarmy BS from Shonkey and blingish and a FW fool!

    • bad12 24.2
      21 February 2013 at 5:42 pm

      Yes bankrupt New Zealand, welcome to it, with 380 million dollars of debt and coal prices having fallen 40% the States coal miner Solid Energy is to all extents and purposes insolvent,

      Having recently sacked 1/4 of it’s mining workforce Solid Energy are not able to ‘up’ production so as to enable it’self to trade out of it’s current financial predicament,

      The insinuation from Bill from Dipton, a noted financial illiterate, is that not only will the axe be taken to the staff at Solid Energy’s Corporate HQ, the miner will also give the boot to another tranche of the actual mining workforce,

      The prognosis is not good and i have the sneaking suspicion that Bill would like to flick Solid Energy off into the private market causing the loss of 100,s of jobs and the loss of a Billion Dollars to the taxpayers of New Zealand…

      • Descendant Of Sssmith 24.2.1
        21 February 2013 at 6:25 pm

        Of course they were in trouble already when they paid 7.5 million for Pike River – a vision that seemed odd at the time given their financial position and the low likelihood of PR ever making a profit.

        I’m not sure who the receivers paid that money to but on any commercial basis it did seem strange given it was supposed to be an SOE to run on that basis.

        I can also guarantee TC that if it was actually run directly by the state there wouldn’t have been the big salaries and board payments and bonuses. There is a few more millions of savings there as well that need not be spent.

        • Draco T Bastard 24.2.1.1
          21 February 2013 at 9:22 pm

          I can also guarantee TC that if it was actually run directly by the state there wouldn’t have been the big salaries and board payments and bonuses. There is a few more millions of savings there as well that need not be spent.

          QFT

          Kill the super-high salaries of the SoE CEOs and we’d save ourselves tens of millions per year.

    • Treetop 24.3
      21 February 2013 at 6:40 pm

      Mighty River made 75 m and Solid Energy lost 389 m. The price of coal is down 40 %.

      How many weeks until budget day?

    • Lefty 24.4
      21 February 2013 at 7:36 pm

      The government will probably pay one of their mates to take it off their hands. That might even be why it has been allowed to go broke.

      Of course the state owned enterprise model never was supposed to actually work, only a few faithful labour party diehards (including the whole Clark government) ever believed they are anything other than holding mechanisms until suitable opportunities, including that they have gone broke, can be made for handing them over to the ruling class.

      • karol 24.4.1
        21 February 2013 at 7:44 pm

        Gower reckoned tonight that the sale of Solid Energy won’t now go ahead – at least not any time soon.

      • bad12 24.4.2
        21 February 2013 at 9:14 pm

        Yes, and the other ‘reasoning’ behind the SOE model is that it absolves from all responsibility the very politicians that are in favor of that SOE model,

        By appointing to the Board of such SOE’s people of like leaning politicians of all hues are able to by the ‘buddy system’ interfere in the running of such State businesses, the Solid Energy purchase of Pike River being the perfect example, there is no paper trail of intervention apparent and with such a lack of transparency comes a lack of the people being able to hold the politicians responsible for any action/inaction surrounding any of the SOE’s…

    • Draco T Bastard 24.5
      21 February 2013 at 9:16 pm

      Oh, look, the market fails to provide the best outcome for society yet again.

  25. Pascal's bookie 25
    21 February 2013 at 5:22 pm

    Poor bloody Coasters.

    • Ennui in Requiem 25.1
      21 February 2013 at 8:46 pm

      Agreed, the question has always been how to build a community with a sustainable economy on the Coast where extractive industry is linked to industrial usage elsewhere. The obvious answer is don’t mine, but if not coal mining what else? I have a feeling that as we suffer extreme energy decline over the next fifty years coal will again rear its head and be in vogue. I suspect when we cant buy a barrel of oil Coasters will be supplying coal to NZ Rail.

      • Colonial Viper 25.1.1
        21 February 2013 at 8:56 pm

        Coal will be in vogue again as we suffer extreme energy decline? Yes, certainly. But when you look at the chart below, you’ll see that already, coal is more in vogue than ever before and has been for many years.

        http://photos.mongabay.com/09/coal_1990-2030.jpg

      • Draco T Bastard 25.1.2
        21 February 2013 at 9:25 pm

        I suspect when we cant buy a barrel of oil Coasters will be supplying coal to NZ Rail.

        Only if we’re really stupid and don’t convert rail to electric.

        • Trickledrown 25.1.2.1
          21 February 2013 at 11:41 pm

          coal fired electric power stationz!
          govt Asset sales propaganda not looking pretty!
          govt mining for growth complete failure!
          100% pure bullshit! Nationals brighter Future!

          • Draco T Bastard 25.1.2.1.1
            22 February 2013 at 9:49 am

            coal fired electric power stationz!

            Bad option no matter what NACT say. Far better to build wind turbines and solar power collectors.

  26. Penny Bright 26
    21 February 2013 at 7:16 pm

    [deleted]

    [lprent: Even after reading this twice I still have no idea who it was directed against, what they were complaining about, or even if it was defamatory or what legal position it would leave us in. Not worth the risk to the site and it was so badly written that I was hard put to even view it as being bad satire. FFS no-one reading it could have even have figured out if it was about a politician, a member of the public, or a committee of dancing poodles.

    Incidentally as you may have gathered, I formed the opinion that whoever wrote this incoherent pile of paranoid waffle has long since lost their tinfoil hat, really should get another made with the utmost speed, and put into use as their first course of action. Alternatively using the services of a doctor would have been indicated.

    Sure it probably wasn’t technically defamatory. But that probably wasn’t by intent. It was through sheer bloody minded stupidity, not only on the writers part, but also for you being foolish enough to put it up. Don’t abuse your access here so lightly. At least read the frigging things before putting them up. ]

    • bad12 27.1
      21 February 2013 at 11:16 pm

      Yeah nice one from Jacinda, She should have a placard made of that and every time any of the present Slippery Shyster Government mention benefit fraud in the house display it to them…

  28. lprent 28
    22 February 2013 at 2:53 am

    Got rid of the bingbot’s major issue with this site. It can no longer see the reply links, and nor can a number of other bots, spiders and crawlers when they access the site through the normal pages. RSS is ok…

    There are 524k comments on the site, each has a reply link. That is a lot of links on the site. The dumb bots were each following the link to get a new copy of the page with the reply on it. Humans use the javascript onclick. Bots read the link provided for people without javascript.

    Anyway finished an upgrade. Rebooting server and then it is time to sleep.

    • lprent 28.1
      22 February 2013 at 3:03 am

      Back up again. Database has had a clean up.

      • ropata 28.1.1
        22 February 2013 at 9:46 am

        Cheers Lynn. Can the font be changed? I am tired of Times New Roman …

        • lprent 28.1.1.1
          22 February 2013 at 11:05 am

          I was tired of it when we put the new theme in back in 2010. I’ll put it back on the agenda for discussion.

          • QoT 28.1.1.1.1
            23 February 2013 at 12:00 am

            As long as it ain’t Comic Sans or fucking Calibri I’m happy.

            • Colonial Viper 28.1.1.1.1.1
              23 February 2013 at 12:04 am

              There’s a version of Calibri known as Fucking Calibri? I’m definitely going to be posting in that from now on.

            • felixviper 28.1.1.1.1.2
              23 February 2013 at 12:08 am

              What’s wrong with Comic Sans?

              Too jazzy?

            • lprent 28.1.1.1.1.3
              23 February 2013 at 12:23 am

              Hey I’m a conservative at heart – well for everything apart from doing large scale code shifts just before release. But definitely about fonts….

              Comic Sans isn’t common enough across systems. Putting wacking big font lists in for the range of browsers is just irritating. Getting users to download them is also a bit of an issue for the few remaining people on dial-up..

              The last two years of visits by browser


              1  Firefox
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 28.96%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 33.35%
              2  Internet Explorer
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 24.50%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 28.79%
              3  Safari
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 20.85%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 18.80%
              4  Chrome
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 19.80%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 15.12%
              5  Android Browser
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 2.14%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 0.62%
              6  Mozilla Compatible Agent
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 1.21%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 1.12%
              7  Opera
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 1.13%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 1.32%
              8  Safari (in-app)
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 0.49%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 0.00%
              9  Opera Mini
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 0.38%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 0.28%
              10  IE with Chrome Frame
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 0.18%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 0.04%

              And operating system…


              1  Windows
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 65.79%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 70.22%
              2  Macintosh
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 18.93%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 19.96%
              3  iOS
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 6.06%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 0.00%
              4  Android
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 2.56%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 0.88%
              5  Linux
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 2.45%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 2.46%
              6  iPad
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 2.02%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 2.42%
              7  iPhone
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 1.35%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 3.12%
              8  (not set)
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 0.46%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 0.34%
              9  BlackBerry
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 0.14%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 0.12%
              10  iPod
                Jan 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2012 0.10%
                Dec 31, 2010 - Dec 31, 2011 0.42%

  29. Rogue Trooper 29
    22 February 2013 at 11:08 am

    a broad brush of The Human Stain the other day in one of your comments Lynn…

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.