Open Mike 21/05/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 21st, 2017 - 38 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

38 comments on “Open Mike 21/05/2017”

    • Jilly Bee 1.1

      When I read that piece – the quip of Lord Darlington from Oscar Wilde’s play – Lady Windemere’s Fan; “the price of everything and the value of nothing” readily came to mind. Shame on the DHB.

  1. The Chairman 2

    While Ruth Richardson had the “Mother of all Budgets”, the Greens have the “Budget for all Mothers”
    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a/clips/extras/greens-budget-all-mothers

    • The Chairman 2.1

      On a side note:

      Apparently Labour have been informed about this policy, yet despite the MoU, Metiria wasn’t sure what their (Labour’s) response was.

      Is this a sign communication between Labour and the Greens is lacking?

      • weka 2.1.1

        No. Turei gives a pretty good explanation of what that is about. She wants NZers to know about the policy so that they will know they can choose to vote Green. Subtext, what Labour thinks isn’t the priority when the Greens are releasing a policy of this type. I would expect that to work the other way too.

        The MOU doesn’t join them at the hip, it gives them a great deal of flexibility. They don’t have to agree with each other, nor consult with each about policy. They’re developing policy and campaigning separately. They are also intentionally not doing coalition type policy deals pre-election. All for very good reasons.

        • The Chairman 2.1.1.1

          With the MoU in place, the two should very well know whenever new policy is released one of the first questions from the media will be what does the other think of it? And this is largely because of the MoU, voters expect more of an insight on how the two will work together, thus how does this policy sit with the other?

          Metiria’s response came across as if the two aren’t in close discussion at all. I’m not suggesting what the other thinks should be the priority, but it certainly requires to be known, If only to help sell the perception that they are working closely in the background.

          Overall she did rather well, apart for failing to sufficiently answer what Labour thought of it.

          • weka 2.1.1.1.1

            I think you fundamentally misunderstand what the MOU is. And again, you think they should operate as you see fit, but they have their own strategy.

            In other words, they’re not working *that closely and it wasn never the intention to do so. A clear and core part of the MOU was that they remained independent parties in terms of the party vote, and that is exactly what we have seen demonstrated today. How to be separate parties without being enemies or working against the common cause.

            “And this is largely because of the MoU, voters expect more of an insight on how the two will work together, thus how does this policy sit with the other?”

            The way it works is that either Labour make an announcement of their own, or the media asks Labour for a response and Labour responds. The point of the MOU isn’t for the Greens to explain the Labour response, but to ensure that Labour have had time to prepare and answer on their own. And vice versa.

            • The Chairman 2.1.1.1.1.1

              I understand the MOU doesn’t join them at the hip, that it gives them a great deal of flexibility. And that they don’t have to agree with each other, nor consult with each about forming policy.

              But one would expect they would know where each other stand on policy. Therefore, I don’t expect the Greens to have to go into detail explaining Labour’s response, but they should at least know where they stand.

              And as the show highlighted by asking the question, others also expect so.

              • weka

                “knowing where they stand” What if Labour disagrees with the policy? How would it serves the Greens for Turei to say that? The next question in the interview then becomes about how can the parties work together if they don’t agree. Etc.

                Or what if Labour agrees with this bit and not that bit. Now you have Turei having to explain that and instead of talking about Green policy as a way of letting voters know why to vote Green, she’s spending interview time talking about the potential coalition partner’s disagreement.

                It’s just not viable to expect one party to explain where the other party stands. You might not think they have to go into detail, but I bet the interviewer is going to want that. If the parties were working together on policy it would make sense they would have a prepared approach, but in this case they’re not. And the MoU doesn’t suggest they should do what you are suggesting.

                • The Chairman

                  “What if Labour disagrees with the policy? How would it serves the Greens for Turei to say that?”

                  It would highlight their honesty, thus help build voter trust in the party.

                  Unfortunately, her response made it look as if that was the case (Labour disagrees) and she was attempting to dodge that discussion. Leading to people questioning their honesty or competence for not knowing. Which, either way it wasn’t a good look.

                  “The next question in the interview then becomes about how can the parties work together if they don’t agree”

                  Which is a legitimate question that many voters are already asking, thus of course she should have addressed it. Dodging it won’t put voters at easy and leaves the question hanging in peoples minds. Which is not something the Greens would want voters taking into the polling booths.

                  “Or what if Labour agrees with this bit and not that bit.”

                  If the Greens were genuinely confident in the policy they would have stood tall and defended it And defending it would have allowed her to talk more about the policy while putting to rest any further questions, concern or criticism.

              • Wainwright

                Agreed Chairman. MOU seems to mean Labour and the Greens are acting in perfect unison when they want to (Budget Resopnsibility Rules etc) and completely separately when they want to. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me and certainly doesn’t give the appearance of a governmetn in waiting.

                • Why doesn’t it make sense to you? An MoU means you’ve agreed to work together on some things but not necessarily on others – that fits what we’re seeing exactly.

                  • The Chairman

                    “An MoU means you’ve agreed to work together on some things but not necessarily on others”

                    And shouldn’t voters have a right to know what those things are? Moreover, shouldn’t they (Labour & the Greens) be obligated to tell us? Or do you recommend keeping voters in the dark as the way forward?

          • Doogs 2.1.1.1.2

            Metiria answered exactly the way anyone would expect her to answer. Weka has nailed the issue in one – the MoU.

            Do you know the detail of the MoU?
            Do you know what it says about each other’s policy announcements?
            Do I hear you asking if Little has checked with the Greens about what he announces?

            I think Chairman that you are seeing road bumps where there most likely are none.
            Both parties look very comfortable about each other’s pronouncements, and I, for one, do not see a shred of conflict between them. Serious discussions, even arguments (which I hope they hold behind closed doors) but not any real conflict.

    • Bill 2.2

      Greg Boyed’s an idiot – where will the $44 million come from (can’t afford the poor!) – $220 a week won’t make any difference (in whose world!) – increasing stat sick leave will hurt business (sod the sick) – Greens are trying to spin two plates (should stick to “environment”)…

      edit. Labour’s reaction, if any, is for them to air, not for the Greens to be quizzed about.

      • weka 2.2.1

        The environment vs social one is particularly tiresome. It’s been several elections at least since the Greens went overtly with environment and social side by side, and those things have always inherently been in GP kaupapa right from when it was the Values Party.

      • The Chairman 2.2.2

        Those sort of questions are to be expected.

        “Labour’s reaction, if any, is for them to air, not for the Greens to be quizzed about.”

        Without an MoU in place, I’d agree. However, with an MoU they should at least both know where each other stand.

        • Bill 2.2.2.1

          Well they do. Labour knows (knew) that the Greens have proposed a “budget for mothers”. And I dare say Labour will inform the Greens about their budget focus.

          The MoU isn’t about necessarily critiquing one another’s policies or forming joint policies. it’s about making one another aware of what those policies will be – a kind of ‘no surprises’ pact.

          • The Chairman 2.2.2.1.1

            “Well they do. Labour knows (knew) that the Greens have proposed a “budget for mothers”.”

            Yes, yet the Greens aren’t aware of whether or not Labour support it, which helps give voters a better indication on how the two will work together.

            Is this something Labour can work with or is it something they will attempt to kick to the side, thus what chance does it really have of becoming policy?

            IMO, this is the insight voters want to know. The fact the Greens couldn’t tell us wasn’t a good look.

            • weka 2.2.2.1.1.1

              Unless they are working on policy together, it’s inappropriate for the Greens to talk about Labour’s position or vice versa.

              “Is this something Labour can work with or is it something they will attempt to kick to the side, thus what chance does it really have of becoming policy?”

              You’d have to ask Labour that. Expecting the Greens to answer that is asking for a whole bunch of trouble.

              “The fact the Greens couldn’t tell us wasn’t a good look.”

              To you maybe, but you seem fundamentally incapable of not being an expert on what L and G are doing wrong. You have to knock them pretty much every time and even where their strategy is pointed out to you, you still know best. This is why these conversations always end up idiotic.

              • The Chairman

                “Unless they are working on policy together, it’s inappropriate for the Greens to talk about Labour’s position or vice versa.”

                After discussions, it wouldn’t be inappropriate for one to confirm whether or not the other was generally in support of a policy.

                “You’d have to ask Labour that. “

                If they have been in discussion one would expect the Greens would know.

                “To you maybe, but you seem fundamentally incapable of not being an expert on what L and G are doing wrong”.

                While it’s clearly my opinion your mistake is that it’s only my opinion. I’m currently with 3 green supporters that also share this opinion. And I’m confident they are not the only ones.

                I don’t knock them pretty much every time. However, if there is something that requires improving I’ll highlight. It’s called feedback.

            • Bill 2.2.2.1.1.2

              It does not matter whether Labour supports it or not. What you’re looking for is effectively what would result from a party merger. There is no merger. There isn’t even a coalition. There’s a MoU.

              • weka

                Here’s a wall if you want to ban your head against it.

              • The Chairman

                “It does not matter whether Labour supports it or not.”

                I disagree, for the reasons stated above.

                “What you’re looking for is effectively what would result from a party merger. ”

                Knowing where each other stand doesn’t require them to be in a merger.

    • Bill 3.1

      Not so sure that “thrilled” is the most appropriate reaction 🙂 Big waves and big ships = ending badly.

      According to wiki (and there are various ways to take these measurements) The maximum ever measured wave height from a satellite is 20.1m during a North Atlantic storm in 2011.

  2. adam 4

    I’ve been meaning to put this up for a while. Frankie Boyle at his cutting best.

    Very good, might be a bit much for some – as it contains humor.

  3. joe90 6

    No, but I know now.

    Have you ever wondered where the terms lower and uppercase text came from? pic.twitter.com/5Pmfw5RsnE— murmurs (@mrmrs_) May 20, 2017

  4. greywarshark 7

    Utopia. As Australian cartoonist and others have imagined it.

  5. greywarshark 8

    Utopia. As Australian cartoonist Bruce Petty and others have imagined it.

    By the way. There were some really good interviews on Radionz today and I managed to put them on yesterday’s Open Mike 20/5. So after all that and putting the links up please will someone look at them. I reckon you will think they were good, one on Tax,. one on P in Northland, and one on an initiative that is making a breakthrough in education in rural NZ. Doing something like charter schools were imagined for, and at half the cost, with better outcomes too I’ll be bound.

  6. joe90 9

    Johnny Cash covered Chris Cornell’s (Soundgarden) Rusty Cage.

  7. esoteric pinapples 10

    Kim Dotcom is saying he knows that murdered Democrat Party worker Seth Rich was a Wikileaks source.

  8. JC 11

    “The fishing industry is killing this animal and we need some urgent action to stop this.”

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/331230/rare-sea-lions-killed-by-squid-trawlers

    S.L.E.D.S… (Sealion exclusion device), or …. Extermination Device!

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/327600/sea-lion-dies-in-trawling-net

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  • The Politics of Opposition
    For most of the time I was a British MP, my party was out of government – these were the Thatcher years, when it was hard for anyone else to get a look-in. As a front-bencher and shadow minister, I became familiar with the strategies required in a parliamentary democracy ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • More expert comments on the Canadian fluoride-IQ paper
    The Green et al (2019) fluoride/IQ is certainly controversial – as would be expected from its subject (see If at first you don’t succeed . . . statistical manipulation might help and Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear). Anti-fluoride campaigners have been actively promoting it ...
    1 week ago
  • The return to guerrilla war in Colombia
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh On August 29th a video in which veteran FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) commander Iván Márquez announced that they had taken up arms again was released. There was no delay in the reaction to it, from longtime Liberal Party figure and former president Uribe, for ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Air New Zealand identifies this enormous plot of unused land as possible second airport site
    Air New Zealand couldn’t believe its luck that this seemingly ideal piece of real estate had so far gone entirely unnoticed. Air New Zealand’s search for a site to build a second Auckland Airport may have made a breakthrough this afternoon, after employees scanning Google satellite imagery spotted a huge, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Redline on the Labour Party
    No-one on the anti-capitalist left in this country today puts forward a case that Labour is on the side of the working class.  There are certainly people who call themselves ‘socialist’ who do, but they are essentially liberals with vested interests in Labourism – often for career reasons. Nevertheless, there ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour’s failure
    When National was in government and fucking over the poor for the benefit of the rich, foodbanks were a growth industry. And now Labour is in charge, nothing has changed: A huge demand for emergency food parcels means the Auckland City Mission is struggling to prepare for the impending arrival ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Ardern attempts to vaccinate Clarke Gayford live on television to prove that it’s safe
    Gayford, pictured here on The Project, before things got wildly out of control. A bold public relations move by the Government to encourage parents to vaccinate their children has gone horribly wrong. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern appeared on tonight’s episode of Three’s The Project, where the plan was for her ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Has Mr. Whippy gone too far by parking on our front lawns?
    Mr. Whippy’s business model has driven it down a dark road of intimidation. Residents in major centres around the country are becoming disgruntled by the increasingly aggressive actions of purported ice cream company Mr. Whippy, who have taken to parking on people’s front lawns and doorsteps in a desperate attempt ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Cleaning up the water
    Today the government released its Action Plan for Healthy Waterways, aimed at cleaning up our lakes and rivers. Its actually quite good. There will be protection for wetlands, better standards for swimming spots, a requirement for continuous improvement, and better standards for wastewater and stormwater. But most importantly, there's a ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Fronting up
    Today I appeared before the Environment Committee to give an oral submission on the Zero Carbon Bill. Over 1,500 people have asked to appear in person, so they've divided into subcommittees and are off touring the country, giving people a five minute slot each. The other submitters were a mixed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear
    Anti-fluoride activists have some wealthy backers – they are erecting billboards misrepresenting the Canadian study on many New Zealand cities – and local authorities are ordering their removal because of their scaremongering. Many New Zealanders ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Democracy – I Don’t Think So
    So, those who “know best” have again done their worst. While constantly claiming to be the guardians of democracy and the constitution, and respecters of the 2016 referendum result, diehard Remainers (who have never brought themselves to believe that their advice could have been rejected) have striven might and main ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Government says it will now build just one really nice home
    Following publication of this article, the Ministry has requested it to be noted that this supplied image is not necessarily representative of what the final house will look like, and it “probably won’t be that nice.” As part of today’s long-anticipated reset of the Government’s flagship KiwiBuild policy, Housing Minister ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Imperialism and your cup of coffee
    Over the next week or two we will be running three synopses of parts of the opening chapter of John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century (New York, Monthly Review Press, 2016).  The synopsis and commentary below is written by Phil Duncan. Marx began Capital not with a sweeping historical ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Still juking the stats
    The State Services Commission and Ombudsman have released another batch of OIA statistics, covering the last six months. Request volumes are up, and the core public service is generally handling them within the legal timeframe, though this may be because they've learned to extend rather than just ignore things. And ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Hard News: Time for a New Deal: 25 years on
    In 1994, I was editing an ambitious street mag called Planet, from a fabled office at at 309 Karangahape Road. The thirteenth issue of the magazine was published in the winter of that year and its cover embodied a particularly ambitious goal: the end of cannabis prohibition.I wanted to do ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Not impressed
    KiwiBuild was one of the Ardern government's core policies. The government would end the housing crisis and make housing affordable again by building 100,000 new homes. Of course, it didn't work out like that: targets weren't met, the houses they did build were in the wrong place, and the whole ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Solar beats coal
    As the climate crisis escalates, it is now obvious that we need to radically decarbonise our economy. The good news is that its looking easy and profitable for the energy sector. Wind is already cheaper than fossil fuels, and now solar is too:The levellised cost of solar PV has fallen ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • A Step Too Far.
    A Crown Asset? For reasons relating to its own political convenience, the Crown pretends to believe that “No one owns the water.” To say otherwise would re-vivify the promises contained in the Treaty of Waitangi – most particularly those pertaining to the power of the chiefs and their proprietary rights ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Where Money Comes From
    Most people would say, no doubt, that they have a pretty good idea of what money is. They live with the reality of money every day. It is what is needed to buy the necessities of life and to maintain a decent standard of living. You get money, they would ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Banned by the Green Party leadership: Jill Abigail on women’s rights and trans rights
    The article below was an opinion piece that appeared in the Spring 2019 issue of Te Awa (the NZ Green Party’s newsletter) and on the Greens website.  In keeping with their policy of hostility to women defending women’s right to female-only spaces, Green bureaucrats have since removed the opinion piece.  ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • The fallacy of the proximity argument.
    Longer term readers may remember my complaining that, as a political scientist, it is burdensome to have non-political scientists wanting to engage me about politics. No layperson would think to approach an astrophysicist and lecture him/her on the finer details of quarks and black holes, but everybody with an opinion ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 weeks ago
  • Where We Stood: Chris Trotter Replies To Stevan Eldred-Grigg.
    Joining The Fight: Stevan Eldred-Grigg's argument for New Zealand staying out of the Second World War fails not only on the hard-headed grounds of preserving the country’s strategic and economic interests; and not just on the soft-hearted grounds of duty and loyalty to the nation that had given New Zealand ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Universities back the climate strike
    On September 27, School Strike 4 Climate will be striking for a future to pressure the government for meaningful climate action. This time, they've asked adults to join them. And now, Lincoln University and Victoria University of Wellington have signed on:Victoria University of Wellington has joined Lincoln University in endorsing ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

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