Open mike 21/10/2010

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 21st, 2010 - 75 comments
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75 comments on “Open mike 21/10/2010 ”

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  1. travellerev 1
    21 October 2010 at 6:40 am

    Kevin Bracken, who is the Victorian secretary of the Maritime Union of Australia and president of the Victorian Trades Hall Council, called in to talkback radio in Melbourne to say that “the official story doesn’t stand up to scientific scrutiny”.

    Kevin Bracken some of you might know is a leading union activist in OZ and a very courageous man.
    The official story he refers to is of course the official CT about the events of 911.

    Just imagine this happening on NZ talkback radio. That is balls.

    He is of course joined and has been for the last four years, by an ever expanding group of scientists, architects and engineers, lawyers, fire fighters, politicians, survivors, pilots, religious leaders and military asking for a new and independent investigation into the events of 911.

    In fact Iran will be hosting just such an event next year and just in case you have heard that Aghmadinajad was hateful and hurt the survivors of the events of 911 with his vile words here’s what he really said.

    Why does Kevin Bracken come out like this? Because he resents the kids from good hard working folk being sent to Afghanistan to die in the toxic quack mire for the profit of those who really did perpetrate the vile attacks in New York.

    • The Voice of Reason 1.1
      21 October 2010 at 7:09 am

      “I stick to scientific facts. In my mind the buildings were imploded.”

      The second sentence says it all.

      • comedy 1.1.1
        21 October 2010 at 7:36 am

        🙂

      • travellerev 1.1.2
        21 October 2010 at 8:32 am

        Kevin Bracken is a long standing member of the international 911 truth movement. He bases his opinion on scientific research such as that of Nils Harrit and the international institute for 911 research or that of the Architects and Engineers for 911 truth. Him saying in my mind the buildings were imploded is short for saying, “IMHO after done the research and based on the facts as the are I have come to the conclusion that there is no other possibility but to accept that the three building which imploded and collapsed into a pyroclastic flow at freefall speed (6.5, 10 and 11 seconds to be precise) could not have happened due to the name but three laws of Nature such as those of Newton.”

        I’m sure though that had this been Galileo saying, “the earth is actually round.” you would have reacted in the same inane manner. Pick the obvious sound bite and hang onto it with desperation.

        Kevin also added in that same telephone call that he was prepared to debate the talkback host in an open debate on the facts. Guess you missed that one.

        The issue here is not the fact that he got through to the talkback show though but the fact that this is a man who for all intends and purposes is a powerful leader of a huge part of the population and while the newspapers are trying to paint him as a lunatic he has been in his position for a long time and has been open about his 911 stance for a long time too and the fact that he spoke out reverberated around the world witnessed in the fact that the phone call was judged worthy of a newspaper article in the UK Telegraph amongst others and the fact that OZ’s PM was pressured to comment and even fire him for his 911 stance.

        Just think about it. What if Andrew Little came on talkshow radio and said he wanted a new and independent investigation into 911 because he wanted a new debate as to why we are sending NZ lads to Afghanistan.

        Even more amazing is that (While I understand that this is not a scientific vote) about half of the voters (link above) say that he was right in doing so.

        So you shuffle of now doing what you do best in making cheap and snide but ultimately silly comments and take Comedy with you while you’re at it and let the adults get on with it.

        • Gosman 1.1.2.1
          21 October 2010 at 9:06 am

          Excellent. Not only do you have the nutty Iranian President, (who stole the last election using a combination of electoral fraud and violence), you now have a wacky Australian Union boss, who has now been disowned by his own Prime Minister, on your side. Congratulations Travellerev. Wake me when someone with a bit of intelligence joins up to your conspiracy theory nonsense.

          • ianmac 1.1.2.1.1
            21 October 2010 at 10:56 am

            Gosman I think that you meant George W Bush when you said this: “who stole the last election using a combination of electoral fraud and violence” Yes?

            • Gosman 1.1.2.1.1.1
              21 October 2010 at 11:55 am

              So what evidence do you have that George Bush stole the 2004 election with electoral fraud and violence?

              • mickysavage …
                21 October 2010 at 11:57 am

                Gawd the internet is a big thing and there are many sources of information that can be verified. Go and have a look.

              • Vicky32 …
                21 October 2010 at 4:53 pm

                A heap of evidence! If you mean the 2004 election, the electronic voting machines were all that was needed… Who on earth still supports sad old Dubya? It makes me cry…
                Deb

          • Vicky32 1.1.2.1.2
            21 October 2010 at 4:33 pm

            Will I do? I’d set my intelligence against yours any day – and I have always had serious doubts about the 9/11 official story – from Day 1 – the USA has this Nazi combination of ruthless militarism and schmalzty sentiment – frankly, I would put nothing past them! As for the Iranian president, he’s guilty of about 1% of what the MSM tell you he’s done and said..
            Gullible. He’s no worse than mad rightists Sarkozy and Berlusconi, if you check out what he’s *really* said and done…

            • comedy 1.1.2.1.2.1
              21 October 2010 at 4:36 pm

              I’d suggest you set your intelligence against a dog turd………. probably a more even battle of wits.

          • travellerev 1.1.2.1.3
            21 October 2010 at 7:34 pm

            Ah cowboy boy,

            Day wouldn’t be complete without your sillyness.

            On the “favourite things” theme all now:
            Cowboy boy oh, cowboy boy. Fat like Farrar and silly like whale, a whole lot younger and and not quit so pale.

            GOVL

        • The Voice of Reason 1.1.2.2
          21 October 2010 at 11:34 am

          What I find amusing about your naivety is that it’s wedded to a right wing fantasy. You obviuosly are left wing from your comments on other matters, but you tie yourself to a loony, inconsequensial cause that appears to supported by the same percentage of people who deny climate change. Hell, it may even be the same people!

          Even if it were true that this was in fact an inside job, and the ‘truth’ came out, it would make no difference at all. It wouldn’t end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. It wouldn’t help your mates the Taliban back into power, it wouldn’t bring Saddam Hussein back to life. There would still be 3000 dead in NY; that won’t change either.

          In life, the obvious answer is, more often than not, the truth. And the truth of 9/11 is that the US security forces got done like a kipper by an audacious, but simple plan, carried out by 19 young men on the orders of an old man in a cave.

          That’s it, there ain’t no more. Leave the anti-state fantasies to the Tea Party, Trav, it’s not an argument any lefty should waste time on.

          • freedom 1.1.2.2.1
            21 October 2010 at 11:52 am

            TVOR , first up
            “it’s not an argument any lefty should waste time on” are you seriously saying that democracy and freedom are not subjects the left should be concerned with?

            also a small point but one that i hope you will be able to comprehend…
            Even the people who wrote the 9/11 Comission Report have publicly stated that they were not told the whole story, so how in the name of daffy duck do you claim to know what did and did not happen.

            You should take some time in the coming months studying the FACTS
            , then come back and we can have an informed debate somewhere, as this story is not going away.

            The official story is a lie built on misinformation and fear.

            • The Voice of Reason 1.1.2.2.1.1
              21 October 2010 at 12:57 pm

              What’s this fantasy got do with democracy and freedom, er, Freedom? The facts are as we know them and the 9/11 Commission did a pretty thorough job. There is one other fact; that a loose coalition of right wing anti-statists have tried to beat up a conspiracy theory when the real conspiracy is already well known. The reason lefties should ignore the bollocks is that it’s a reactionary diversion intended to advance a particular stream of right wing lunacy.

              It’s sad that a few otherwise committed lefties have jumped on this. I suspect it probably fits in with an immature left position that anything the US does is bad and that it’s all a vast conspiracy, etc…. The left should leave the frothing to Mel Gibson IMHO.

              • freedom …
                21 October 2010 at 2:02 pm

                the 9/11 commission itself has denied physical laws, selectively included data and generally been a complete joke. It has admitted it was not told the full story, hell at one point the Commission were considering criminal charges against NORAD officials as they were not being forthcoming with the truth. Not to mention six of the commissioners have publicly stated that there is more to the story than the american people are being told.

                Let us start with two little facts about your all-knowing commission that you put so much faith in.
                1:They said WTC1&2 were hollow core buildings. The cores of WTC 1&2 had 47 welded and riveted steel columns that were 110 stories tall. These made up the infrastructure of WTC1&2, but could not be included as to do so would make their pet theory of a pancake collapse impossible.

                2: The commission ignored Building 7. completely. As far as the commission is concerned it never existed.

                At a recent hearing, for one of the many 9/11 cases being presented in American Courts, a judge in Manhattan, who was to decide on the next step in a call for a new investigation was asked about the collapse of building 7, his reply is one of the more chilling and revealing statments in the entire deception.. ” building what?”

                So don’t feel too bad that you have been fed lies and ate a double helping, that judge probably thought he knew what had happened also. have a look at this site, you may be surpirsed at the quality of ‘nutters’ that are joing the fight for 9/11 Truth
                http://buildingwhat.org/

          • Vicky32 1.1.2.2.2
            21 October 2010 at 4:49 pm

            ” It wouldn’t help your mates the Taliban back into power”
            Vicious and not worthy of you, Voice of Reason…
            “In life, the obvious answer is, more often than not, the truth. And the truth of 9/11 is that the US security forces got done like a kipper by an audacious, but simple plan, carried out by 19 young men on the orders of an old man in a cave.”
            Absolute nonsense – when of those 19 men, at least 7 were found alive and well and living in other countries within days of the event!

            ” Leave the anti-state fantasies to the Tea Party”
            IMO, it’s not anti-State, it’s anti-American Neocon! You don’t think we’re saying it was the entire American state apparatus that was responsible? Of course not…
            Deb

            • The Voice of Reason 1.1.2.2.2.1
              22 October 2010 at 9:39 am

              Deb, Trav has previously quoted and linked to the Taleban’s PR arm on her website, and has made comment along the lines of them being misunderstood in the west, so my reference is apt not vicious.

              The main driver of the truther movement is the particular strain of US right wing idealogy that seeks to limit the powers of the Federal state and believes that central government is a vast conspiracy against the American people. Of course, that’s possibly right in some respects, but it does not make this particular fantasy true. If my knowlege of US history serves me well, it has philosophical links to the ‘states rights’ movements from two centuries ago, that sought to minimise federal control and cede all power to individual states, negating the American constitution as much as possible, particularly in regard to domestic rights for women, children and African Americans. Very specifically, the philosophy opposes engagement with the outside world except for trade and opposes US involvement in foreign wars, no matter what the justification.

              You are entirely within your rights to be a truther, if you want. It’s no more harmful than believing in fairies or Jedi mind control, I suppose. But it is still a waste of time.

              • Vicky32 …
                22 October 2010 at 2:20 pm

                “You are entirely within your rights to be a truther, if you want. It’s no more harmful than believing in fairies or Jedi mind control, I suppose. But it is still a waste of time.”
                Oh so you’re that kind of Voice of Reason! I will utterly sunk in your estimation now I tell you I am also a Christian… but I am, I confess that freely!
                You may consider it a “waste of time”, but if the ‘truthers’ are correct? What then? What follows? These invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were conducted on the pretext of 9/11, although Robert Fisk had pointed out within *days* that Haliburton, Cheney and an oil pipeline were the real motive for ousting the Taliban, which had refused permission for the pipeline. Robert Fisk was not then, and is not now, a ‘Truther’, but he is highly knowledgeable.
                To tar us all with the brush of association with La Rouche, and other States’ rights nutmegs is unfair and untrue. All I have in common with them, is scepticism about both 9/11 and the goodness and rightness of Zionism. On the principle of sheep, lambs and being hung, I shall also confess to being involved in Palestinian rights…
                Deb

          • travellerev 1.1.2.2.3
            22 October 2010 at 9:07 am

            Grow up and ditch the left right paradigm TVOR.
            There is no equal people divided in some magical left and right.

            There is the oppressor and the oppressed.
            The have and the have not.
            The lords and the peasants.
            The farmers and the cattle.

            What category you reckon you fit in?

            If as a “lefty” you associate yourself with the ruling elite and the powerful in the above you are the one who is naive.

            • The Voice of Reason 1.1.2.2.3.1
              22 October 2010 at 9:45 am

              Thanks for that, Trav, I’m starting to see your difficulty now. If you deny the existance of class, then I suppose it’s no surprise you can’t see that you are promoting a reactionary fantasy. If right and left make no difference to you, you will always be prone to being fooled by the right (and I suppose, the left). Class consiousness is the beginning of all political understanding.

              • travellerev …
                22 October 2010 at 10:14 am

                Yep you got it in one.

                So which class do you reckon you’re in?

                The lords or the peasants?

                Or if you want to keep it left and right. The right, usually aligned with the haves or the left who used to be smarter than they are now and always had a very healthy distrust of whatever motivated the lords.

                I’m trying to keep it simple here OK. No nampy pampy lefty socialites trying to play all socialist for their poorer breathren but the hardcore working class fighters like euh… Kevin Bracken.

                And for your information I don’t know any “Taliban” or al Qaeda” and therefore can’t call them my friends but someone else has. Here’s Reagan calling them the moral equivalent of the founding fathers you dimwit.

                That was of course when they were fighting the Russians financed and trained by the CIA.

                • The Voice of Reason …
                  22 October 2010 at 10:38 am

                  Hey, Trav, I haven’t abused you, so cut the name calling. Leave that shit to the real righties, eh? My reference to ‘your taliban friends’ was sarky, but you are the one who has linked to their PR front and, if I recall correctly, referred to them as misunderstood freedom fighters.

                  If I’ve got that wrong, I’ll withdraw and humbly apologise, but I remember thinking at the time that it was weird that you would be even vaguely supportive of them when they would kill you in a heartbeat. Well, not a heartbeat; I believe they prefer stoning or public strangulation as a means of keeping women oppressed.

                  • travellerev …
                    22 October 2010 at 12:13 pm

                    I take that as a I don’t want to admit to being a moron for calling yourself a leftie while being a soft middle class asshole who plays at being part of the “sensible” left movement while hoping he can crawl up the ass of the right wing ruling elite.

                    And yes, you were abusing me and trying to rile me with stupid remarks about the Taliban and my so called naivety. So if you don’t like me calling you names don’t act like a moron.

                    The Taliban is a Western invention and a useful name for all those who are taking up weapons against the invader. I might not like them and I sure as shit don’t like their attitude to females but they are the inhabitants of Afghanistan and no invading army has ever won a war against the rightful inhabitants of a country.

                    The war is lost, you just don’t know it yet and the “Taliban” will rule wether we like it or not and a small group of very rich Westerners has made a gazillion out of the destruction of that country and it ain’t you or me.

                    • The Voice of Reason …
                      22 October 2010 at 1:31 pm

                      Righto, this is getting boring now. You ascribe views to me that I don’t hold, call me a moron when, clearly, I am not. You, the Taleban, your boggle eyed truthers and the rest of the conservative right you are so keen to support can take a flying leap. Don’t kid yourself, Trav, you are as conservative and as trustingly naive as any Tea Party supporter.

                      And have a read of this line of yours again and see if you can spot the real dimwit:

                      “…and no invading army has ever won a war against the rightful inhabitants of a country.”

                      If you don’t know the history of the country you live in now nor the history of North America, South America, Asia or even, amazingly, the country of your birth, then it’s pretty obvious who the moron is, eh?

                    • travellerev …
                      22 October 2010 at 1:43 pm

                      Funny,
                      That’s how all the trolling ends. You and the myriad of others who went before you, many of whom have left the building with a little help for from a moderator.

                  • Vicky32 …
                    22 October 2010 at 2:40 pm

                    “Well, not a heartbeat; I believe they prefer stoning or public strangulation as a means of keeping women oppressed.”

                    VoR, do you actually know any Muslims? I am reminded of the statement of some banking higher up, played on Nat Rad this morning, something he said to Bill O’Reilly on Faux News – that whenever he is on a plane and sees people in “Muslim dress” he wants to flee, or attack.. The only thing I wonder about that is why Nat Rad thought such a statement to be newsworthy… many Americans, especially the powerful, have such attitudes. I assure you, from having had them in my classes, that Muslims are not all foaming at the mouth, desperately eager to kill Western women! To think so is simply absurd.
                    Whilst on the subject of class, VOR, what is your class origin? Your tone reminds me of a champagne socialist I used to debate with on h2g2 (the BBC forum). He was off impeccably upper class origin, but despite my provably working class origins, was constantly chiding me for my false consciousness, because I did not regard him as an authority on everything. Pathetic.

                    • travellerev …
                      22 October 2010 at 3:12 pm

                      You know Deb,

                      Until I moved to NZ I lived amongst Muslims immigrants in Amsterdam. Never have I been treated with disrespect. I have had many wonderful Muslim friends from every corner of the Muslim world. Most Muslims were appalled and saddened for what happened that day and I never heard anyone of them yell in support for the “alleged” perps. I do remember though walking with hundreds of thousands of people amongst whom many Muslims of course to protest both the Afghan and Iraq wars.

                      My mother when in her early 50s took one bag with clothes and one with knitting and travelled from Amsterdam to Afghanistan with public transport and took a plane over Pakistan to meet up with her husband in India who was working there for the WFO.

                      She had the most amazing experiences and was never short of food and a bed in some of the most remote Muslim places and nobody tried to chop of her head or stone her for not wearing a burka or being a woman alone on the road.

                      It makes me sick the way some people think and talk about Muslims over in this country.

                      It is just like most Germans talked about Jews before the war and I have seen the sad result of the massacre that could be perpetrated on them because of that because I grew up with the people who survived it. And no I won’t apologise for comparing the two because that is just what it is.

                      Ev

                      Beware of a ticking Muslim indeed. Yuk.

                    • The Voice of Reason …
                      22 October 2010 at 3:27 pm

                      You are the first to mention Muslims, Deb. I was writing about the Taleban. Enough already.

              • travellerev …
                22 October 2010 at 8:03 pm

                TVOR, You are beyond yuk.

      • freedom 1.1.3
        21 October 2010 at 8:57 am

        For those 9-11 deniers still refusing to believe in the laws of physics, here is one of the most recent nails in the coffin of the Official Story as presented by the university of Copenhagen, one of the most respected academic institutions on the planet.

        http://www.prisonplanet.com/collapse-of-wtc-under-fresh-scrutiny-after-explosive-dust-samples-found.html

    • ianmac 1.2
      21 October 2010 at 11:13 am

      Any proposition deserves consideration and an open mind unless it is demonstrably false.

      A few years ago I watched the translation of the Iranian President’s speech on Israel. What he said was that Israel risked being destroyed if it continued the persecution of its neighbours. True? However the interpretation of his words by USA and Israel was that he was determined to exterminate Israel. (Sorry can’t find the exact words.) The response to his words at the UN recently, including that of NZ was anything but considered. Especially as we have troops in Afghanistan.

      • freedom 1.2.1
        21 October 2010 at 11:38 am

        here you go ianmac;

        how it was reported in the NY times, but the same rhetoric was misprinted everywhere
        http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/28/politics/28iran.html?_r=1

        and what was actually said
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#.22Wiped_off_the_map.22_or_.22Vanish_from_the_pages_of_time.22_translation

        The recent UN walkout was completely orchestrated thus well considered, i personally was offended by this international floorshow of support for continuing illegal wars and drumming up support for a new one. Even if Israel won’t sign non-proliferation treaties, or adhere to the peace accords they did sign, or even stick to the land they have already taken, they should admit to the vast number of nuclear warheads they own. It would at least be a start towards a rationale for asking Iran to shut down, what all international studies prove to be an energy plant.

        • ianmac 1.2.1.1
          21 October 2010 at 12:36 pm

          Thanks freedom. Wish I could use Google as well as you. What was actually said then has echoes now re the UN walkout. You don’t think that oil is in there somewhere do you?

          • freedom 1.2.1.1.1
            21 October 2010 at 1:34 pm

            oil is everywhere, as is the greed and desperation that harbours it

            On our little globe we are suffering the real affects of financial decisions taken a hundred years ago but sold to us as if the period is an irrelevancy and has no bearing on contemporary society. We are told how the currency wars are responding to new challenges when really they are the same old musical chairs just with a heavier bassline.

            At this moment a few well known words from Thomas Jefferson are worth revisiting,
            “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money,
            first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”

            a few years later, he went on to say some more very prophetic words

            “Scenes are now to take place as will open the eyes of credulity and of insanity itself, to the dangers of a paper medium abandoned to the discretion of avarice and of swindlers.”

    • Vicky32 1.3
      21 October 2010 at 4:20 pm

      Good on him!
      Deb

  2. travellerev 2
    21 October 2010 at 6:49 am

    I forgot,

    for those of you wanting to vote for or against Kevin to have come out like this, here is a link

    • rosy 2.1
      21 October 2010 at 10:28 am

      http://conspiracyscience.com asks why these respected academics haven’t published in respected academic journals (among other things). Until they do, I’ll go with the official version thanks.

      • freedom 2.1.1
        21 October 2010 at 11:12 am

        Study the evidence before parroting the propoganda

        http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/

        http://www.physics911.ca/Main_Page

        http://ae911truth.org/

        http://www.journalof911studies.com/

        Above are four sites full of academic articles that have repeatedly been subject to peer review though [often] are not published in ‘respected journals’. The political machinations of funding and a Scientist’s need for self-preservation, i.e. a paycheck to feed their family, are very powerful persuaders. The rapidly increasing numbers of Academics around the globe, who are independantly presenting evidence and supporting the call for a new inquiry, suggest there is undoubtedly a reason to cast off the matrix of misinformation and concentrate on the factual evidence. Put more simply, Truth is punching holes in your lifeboat called the Official Story.

        • comedy 2.1.1.1
          21 October 2010 at 6:39 pm

          Shouldn’t these all be filed under http://www.nuttersfor11truth.com ?

          • freedom 2.1.1.1.1
            21 October 2010 at 8:39 pm

            what is really funny comedy, you’ll laugh man, its so funny

            i mean its really funny

            but i hear that a lot
            then i dare them to actually do the research and read some information and generally just give it the same consideration they would a dinner menu,
            but when they have done the work honestly
            it is amazing how the comedians like yourself whimper
            as the reality hammers their little world

  3. zimmer 3
    21 October 2010 at 7:48 am

    Well done unions, Hobbit to move offshore, more to go……….

    • Lazy Susan 3.1
      21 October 2010 at 8:04 am

      Well done Zimmer, completely swallowed the Jackson/Key rhetoric.

      1)There is no confirmation The Hobbit has moved offshore

      2)If it goes offshore this is probably why.

      Suggest you read more than just the headlines before rushing to the keyboard

      Captcha: Invents – as in zimmer invents the news

    • travellerev 3.2
      21 October 2010 at 8:35 am

      Ah, the sweet smell of globalisation. We’ll f*&k you up the ass and if you don’t like it will take it else where. Plenty of people prepared to take it up the ass if you don’t.

      Good riddance I say.

  4. The Chairman 4
    21 October 2010 at 7:50 am

    Well worth a look

    Nobel Laureate Joseph Stiglitz: Foreclosure Moratorium, Government Stimulus Needed to Revive US Economy

    http://www.democracynow.org/2010/10/20/nobel_laureate_joseph_stiglitz_on_how

  5. mickysavage 5
    21 October 2010 at 8:07 am

    So Warner Bros is threatening to take filming of The Hobbitt overseas because of a dispute the value of which is according to Robyn Malcom is “less than the budget for coffee”.

    What is the bet that Warner gets a larger tax break from the Government many times the value of Actors Equity’s request and then decides to stay?

    • comedy 5.1
      21 October 2010 at 8:16 am

      Oh well if Robyn Malcolm says that it must be true.

    • Pascal's bookie 5.2
      21 October 2010 at 8:16 am

      What is the bet that Warner gets a larger tax break from the Government many times the value of Actors Equity’s request and then decides to stay?

      …depends on how much political mileage the govt thinks it can get out of blaming unionism for the loss of the project.

      • comedy 5.2.1
        21 October 2010 at 8:25 am

        About the same amount of mileage the Labour can get out of the stirring by unions at the moment……. both parties treat the whole thing like a game of chess with being in power their only real interest and the public get played again and again and again nothing changes………….

        …..game set and match to the duplicitous 120 !

        • Marty G 5.2.1.1
          21 October 2010 at 8:42 am

          comedy. you need to get some understanding of what interests the parties stand for:

          National is funded and staffed by businessmen and farmers – its policies reflect those interests

          Labour is funded and staffed by people who have risen from the union ranks (not enough from the shop floor, these days) and ‘care’ professions like teaching and medicine. It is the interests of working people that it represents.

          So, National will always work for lower wages and higher profits while Labour will work for higher wages.

          This is the basic political competition: how do we divide up the economic pie between the owners of capital and the workers – National and Labour, and the Right and Left in general, represent the opposite sides of that struggle.

          Politics is not a valueless game you make out, and if you believe it is you miss what is actually going on.

          • comedy 5.2.1.1.1
            21 October 2010 at 9:49 am

            HA HA I think you’re the victim of too many political studies courses.

            Their both funded and staffed by tossers who want to make a living off the public tit.

            The only struggle is how to get to the treasury benches and grab as much money as possible off the taxpayer and ratepayer to maintain enough services to keep the proletariat reasonably subdued to keep in power and maintain their perks and lifestyle.

            At the moment you have the do nothing Nats in power doing …..well pretty much nothing, when Labour get back in they’ll do pretty much nothing as well unless you believe their recent pronouncements which amount to rejuvenating the corpse of Rob Muldoon.

            • Colonial Viper 5.2.1.1.1.1
              21 October 2010 at 12:04 pm

              Labour now has a powerful, differentiated platform to stand on in 2011.

              NATs…well we’ll see but I’m not holding my breath re: what they come up with.

            • prism 5.2.1.1.1.2
              21 October 2010 at 12:05 pm

              comedy you show the very cynicism and me-ism that you accuse the politicians of. It takes one to know one. I don’t think if you got to parliament on either side that you would do anything different than the incumbents. Why would you criticise MartyG’s summation of the NZ political situation, it sounds pretty objective to me?

              • comedy …
                21 October 2010 at 4:49 pm

                Prism even someone of my cynicism and me-ism couldn’t stomach being in the company of the crooked 120.

            • KJT 5.2.1.1.1.3
              21 October 2010 at 2:05 pm

              Union bashing.
              Borrowing for election bribes.
              Big payouts to business.
              Corporate welfare.
              Interfering with education.

              Muldoon’s Zombie is in control now..

    • Gosman 5.3
      21 October 2010 at 9:01 am

      Robyn Malcom just shows her ignorance of economics by that statement. Her and Helen Kelly sounded particularly sheepish this morning, trying to shift the blame. at ;east she acknowledged that if the Hobbit does move somewhere else the general public will blame them for it.

  6. ianmac 6
    21 October 2010 at 11:18 am

    Yesterday during Question time Chris Carter asked Anne Tolley some good questions about National Standards. His last one centred on moderation. Did anyone hear what her answer was? How do I find out?

  7. john 7
    21 October 2010 at 4:40 pm

    CERRA Powers a blueprint for coping with a fuel starved societal collapse and consequent social chaos
    Refer this link: Author Dale Allen Pfeiffer predicts military dictatorship in US as successive oil shocks (Severe Spiking prices) deteriorate US NeoLiberal society further. Reason? Their Government is incapable of planning for this certainty just as ours is too!

    http://carolynbaker.net/content/view/1806/1/

    • john 7.1
      21 October 2010 at 4:43 pm

      “It’s becoming painfully clear that the federal government, having been swallowed whole by the corporate-financial sector, and is incapable of even a shred of preparation for the impending economic/oil shocks. The myopic short-term-profit prime directive of the corporations is now being defended wholly and at all costs by both Democrats and Republicans alike – to the exclusion of even the most basic protections for the bemused and hapless citizenry”

  8. freedom 8
    21 October 2010 at 5:22 pm

    Many strong statements are made in support of the Official Story of 9/11. Why is it then, whenever a link is produced, a link that supplies the very information that according to the ‘strong statement’ does not exist, that the person who made the comment seems to dissapear from the dialogue, odd.

    • Vicky32 8.1
      21 October 2010 at 6:32 pm

      Sad, but not surprising, Freedom… What saddens me most, is that opposition to the official story is called a Right Wing point of view!
      Imperial ambitions (IMO the reason for 9/11) are obviously not left wing, so the accusation that scepticism about the official story is right wing just does not compute!
      Deb

  9. Bored 9
    21 October 2010 at 7:14 pm

    Bugger Jackson, 9/11, Jonkey etc etc, there is a real life and death issue that we need to resolve. When plants are not pollinated by bees we are in trouble. We eat the result. Hives are dying off and that spells trouble. My beans are on the line, your food as well.

    For a number of years the decline has been a mystery, but now it appears agro chemicals are to blame. And those who profit are denying it. See http://civileats.com/2010/10/15/sorry-new-york-times-the-bee-die-off-case-is-not-closed/

    This poses far more threat to our economy than a Hobbit movie. Calls to action anybody??????????

    • freedom 9.1
      21 October 2010 at 8:26 pm

      9/11 is center to the very issue Bored, as it is a provable action by THEM which would open a floodgate of proof where the policies of the NWO/Global Elite etc have many times created and controlled the circumstances that have, for example, brought about the possibilty of a Bee extinction.

      Monsanto for instance, has recently written a bill that is before the US Senate. A bill that will effectively make illegal, all organic and non-organic, community/small scale farming and food growing. An industry that without the Bee, loses an essential ingredient of its survival.

      Monsanto, which has been using Xe for its Security and Intelligence actions, has numerous military contracts. ( Xe was/is Blackwater, the biggest private contractor of Security Intelligence and Paramilitary Services for the Pentagon.) Monsanto has been in numerous long term cross liscening agreements and Patent disagreements with Bayer, the makers of said pesticide suspected of killing the Bees. Don’t neglect the fact that Monsanto also produces the neonicotinoid-coated corn seeds which are also suspected of killing the bees.

      The actions that really affect our world are not being controlled by any Government.
      This changes the known or familiar actions a citizenry can take, but does not limit the possibility of real change. The first task in finding a solution is acknowledging there is a problem.
      9/11 is the perfect resource for that process.

  10. Bored 10
    21 October 2010 at 8:48 pm

    An interesting take, personally I would make all corporations illegal, and run a Nuremburg trial process on all execs. Prior to that I would at least locally ban the said chemicals from usage, the revolution may have to await more vital actions.

    • freedom 10.1
      21 October 2010 at 8:54 pm

      on a positive note Bored, there is a growing alarm against Aspartame in foodstuffs since the recent release of 1970’s documents showing the FDA said very clearly Aspartame is Poison. So at least one of the GM corn by-products will be canned, we hope.

  11. travellerev 11
    22 October 2010 at 8:43 am

    As an update on my comment about Kevin Bracken trying to reignite the discussion about the ongoing illegal invasion of Afghanistan and the events that lead to the invasion, the attacks on 911 here is the actual conversation he had with radio host Jon Faine from talkback radio on ABC

    Here are also some background information links in response to the remarks made by the host.

    A common line of attack to shut people up is the you are hurting the families of those perished in the attacks.

    Wrong. Those families hurt period. They lost people they loved. But most of those pople report hurting more because their government does not want to provide information and investigate the events to help them explain why and how this could happen.

    More than 80.000 NY citizens signed a petition to request a new and independent investigation into the attacks the drive for this came from a group of dedicated family members and survivors of the attacks. In fact if it wasn’t for a small group of family members, no investigation into how these attacks could have happened and why the buildings collapsed would ever have happened.
    These people are not satisfied with the rapport and so neither are we.

    Jon Faine argues that Kevin should be dumped for even entertaining these ideas. His attacks on Kevin are on emotional and personal grounds only and totally ignore that huge groups of professionals are dissatisfied with the first “investigation” and want to have a new and independent investigation too. To call for the end of some ones career because he shows he is capable of critical thought is strongly reminiscent of Soviet and prewar German style strategies to silence opposition and to be dismissed as a bully techniques not worthy of a radio presenter in a democratic Western country.

    Jon Faine argues that the 911 truth movement is a fringe movement of crazies and as per instructed dumps them together with John F Kennedy, moon landings and other outlandish conspiracy theories. While Kevin does an outstanding job of avoiding these inane pitfalls it pays to remember that in every poll over the last three years the division of whether there should be a new investigation is about 50-50 with the 911 truth side generally being the bigger half, the poll linked to on this link being a case in point.

  13. Vicky32 13
    22 October 2010 at 5:52 pm

    VoR, you chided me for mentioning Muslims, and say you were just talking about the Taliban. Don’t be naive! If you know the history of the region, you should know why Muslims are relevant…
    Deb

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