Open mike 21/11/2010

37 comments on “Open mike 21/11/2010 ”

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1. freedom 1

   21 November 2010 at 10:48 am

   America is one of our largest Trading and Tourism partners. Thousands of New Zealand citizens travel within the US every year. Thousands more have to transit through the US every day. Thousands of tourists, business travellers, sports people, students, academics, thousands of New Zealand citizens. To say that US Transport Security Administration security measures are not relevant to NZ is sticking one’s head firmly into the sand.

   Our Government and our Journalists are so far very silent on this oppressive ramping up of US Airport Security. The Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano, when questioned about the now standardised Enhanced Pat Down which includes TSA agents actually putting their hands under the waistband into peoples’ pants and touching their genitals, has made a very clear statement telling the world if you don’t like it, don’t fly ! This statement has led many people, including Airline Pilots and Ex-Governor Jesse Ventura to declare they will not fly.

   This coming from the woman who still cannot admit the Rapiscan Secure 1000 Scanners store transmit and print undistorted photorealistic nude images of men, women and children, despite the manufacturer’s own product description showing she is an idiot. The excessive, invasive, yet federally authorised sexual assault of individuals must be stopped. On behalf of all New Zealanders, our Government must comment on Janet Napolitano’s declaration against private citizens of the World.

   Napolitano statement:
   http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-chicago/napolitano-on-airport-scanners-and-pat-downs-don-t-fly-if-you-don-t-like-it

   Scanner links:
   http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-19112010/#comment-272169
   http://www.rapiscansystems.com/rapiscan-secure-1000-single-pose.html

   Jesse Ventura interview, this is a looped stream, includes Ventura’s “i won’t fly'” announcement,
   also disturbing comments on JFK assassin’s deathbed confession
   http://www.infowars.com/stream2.pls
   • The Voice of Reason 1.1

     21 November 2010 at 11:16 am

     I’d have to agree that the pat downs are appalling and lean towards the abusive. I was once part of a group of passengers frisked after a bomb hoax. The guy using the electronic wand basically waved the men through, but was obscenely thorough with the women. And that was in the relatively carefree eighties.

     Two quick points on the don’t fly thing. Ventura lives in Mexico these days, so presumably can drive to work commitments in LA. And is there not a silver lining in that any cutting down on air travel is a good thing?
     • freedom 1.1.1

       21 November 2010 at 11:49 am

       Things are somewhat different now.

       Ventura does live in Mexico but like a lot of people his career involves regular trans-coastal air travel. He states clearly in the interview that this decision not to fly will heavily impact on his career, as it will with all the free citizens deciding not to fly. This will affect the economy in numerous ways and the huge outcry from District Attorneys, Pilots’ Unions, Civil Liberties groups and many private individuals, is so far only in reaction to the behaviour at Airports.

       There are already mobile Scanner Units that have been deployed to public schools, sporting events and concerts. The most worrying step though has to be the mobile Scanner Systems that are beginning to be used on public highways. Interestingly, these ‘drive by scanners’ are usually seen staffed my Military units and not TSA agents. By Napolitano’s logic, people must now decide wheteher they want to be subjected to a radiation scan just to exercise the right to drive and go about their legitimate business.

       I absolutely agree that fewer planes is a good thing for the planet, so are carless days, Permaculture, and solar energy, but environmental salvation is irrelevant to the issue of minimum wage High School drop-outs groping nuns and children.
       • Zorr 1.1.1.1

         21 November 2010 at 4:33 pm

         Something fun to add to the conversation here just to show how ridiculous the situation has gotten (from one of the US blogs I read)

         http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/flight-attendant-ordered-show-her-pro
   • Lanthanide 1.2

     21 November 2010 at 11:34 am

     “Thousands more have to transit through the US every day.”

     The number of people transitting through the US has dropped off significantly to what it was pre 9/11, precisely due to their security theatre. The yanks don’t seem concerned by this loss of income, however.
     • freedom 1.2.1

       21 November 2010 at 11:53 am

       The yanks may not be concerned by the loss of income but our Government should be concerned with the sexual molestaion of NZ citizens by a country Smile&Wave says is such a good friend
       • Vicky32 1.2.1.1

         21 November 2010 at 5:06 pm

         I have always thought that I would rather die horribly than even transit the USA (should the situation arise) – and this is yet another reason to confirm that decision…
         Deb
         • RedLogix 1.2.1.1.1

           21 November 2010 at 5:27 pm

           Yes… I’ve long fantasised to attempt the PCT… but short of illegally entering the USA via Mexico (at Campo), and leaving via Canada … my reticence about transiting a US controlled airport is one thing that more or less pours cold water on the idea.

           A few years back I was working in Aussie for an American company on a big project. Their US and Canadian employees would take a 2 week trip home every 2 months. One of their Canadian engineers returning back to Aus got detained 3 days at Honolulu because he was only travelling with hand luggage and was thus deemed suspicious. He was put on the infamous ‘no fly list’ and in the end he returned to Vancouver, and then to Australia via Tokyo. It took the company months of effort to get this highly skilled and valuable person off the list.

           When he finally arrived it was the big story over dinner that night… but the scary thing was all the other tales of similar, if not quite so dramatic, encounters that had happened to almost ALL the other engineers. Getting in and out of the US had just become another bit of routine madness they had learned to put up with.
           • Pascal's bookie 1.2.1.1.1.1

             21 November 2010 at 5:51 pm

             “Mr Obama, tear down this wall”
           • Vicky32 1.2.1.1.1.2

             21 November 2010 at 6:09 pm

             Good heavens, it’s good that he was all right in the end!
             Deb
2. ianmac 2

   21 November 2010 at 11:57 am

   It seems that 2010 has been a delayed 1984. Its a bit worrying that increased security is being done “for your own good.” But be afraid. Big Brother is watching you- and me!
   • freedom 2.1

     21 November 2010 at 12:05 pm

     if you can read this
     so can the camera behind you
   • freedom 2.2

     21 November 2010 at 12:17 pm

     one of the most used qualifiers for the scanners and enhanced pat down is the failed ‘underwear bomber’ from last Xmas.

     This is funny as Rapiscan has been questioned in their ability to identify the equipment used by the Underwear Bomber, but more importantly the individual concerned in that event was escorted onto the plane and never went through security anyway

     here is just one of the numerous reports on this part of the issue
     http://detnews.com/article/20091229/METRO01/912290365/Flight-253-passengers-believe-others-involved-in-plot

     The TSA warns that any “would-be commercial airline passenger” who enters an airport checkpoint and refuses to be subjected to “the method of inspection designated by the TSA will not be allowed to fly and also will not be permitted to simply leave the airport”
     • KJT 2.2.1

       21 November 2010 at 1:34 pm

       Need to have a go about the completely ridiculous security levels for domestic flights in New Zealand. Considering the slim chances of any attack happening in NZ actually killing anyone, the level of security is totally over the top. Expensive and inconvenient and way out of proportion.

       Even in the USA the chances of being killed by Terrorists are somewhere South of those of being killed by lightening.

       If you ask a security company what security you need they will always advise more.
3. freedom 3

   21 November 2010 at 12:05 pm

   the stream loop is starting again right now!
   http://www.infowars.com/stream2.pls
4. freedom 4

   21 November 2010 at 12:38 pm

   a little campfire singalong before i go back to work
   http://buckhowdy.bandcamp.com/track/help-you-make-it-to-your-flight
5. Lanthanide 5

   21 November 2010 at 12:42 pm

   lprent: Can you have a look at the XHTML tag list at the bottom of the post comment box?

   I’m sure that probably 80% of that list has never been used once (acronym? div align?), and is therefore cluttering the page up. If you removed all the superfluous ones, and just cut it down to a shorter list that was formatted in a more readable manner, we might see comments become more readable in general.

   Eg, instead of the current list, have the list show something like:
   (b)Bold(/b)
   (i)Italic(/i)
   (strike)Strikethrough(/strike)

   This would give people a short example of how to use it, as well as what it does.
   • just saying 5.1

     21 November 2010 at 1:08 pm

     Great idea.
   • felix 5.2

     21 November 2010 at 10:11 pm

     I third that.

     Also for people unfamiliar with the syntax it’s probably a bit confusing to include more than one attribute per element in the example.
6. NickS 6

   21 November 2010 at 4:29 pm

   Johann Hari: The religious excuse for barbarity.

   Well, I wont be touching Halal/Khosher beef, lamb and goat ever again. Though the chances of the religious leaders actually realising that modern health standards make their traditions redundant is probably slim to non-existent 🙁

   Also, in slightly better religious news:
   http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/condoms-ok-in-rare-cases-pope-3905383

   It might have taken them two and bit decades since the role of condoms in HIV transmission was found and further refined through research, but the Catholic Church has finally fucking noticed that condoms “might” help fight HIV. And that HIV isn’t just for those sinful sodomites.
   /sarcasm
   • Zorr 6.1

     21 November 2010 at 4:35 pm

     Did you read the whole thing though? When it comes down to it the pope basically says that it is only okay in situations where procreation isn’t intended and to protect against transmission of STDs when that is the case… such as in situations involving sex with male prostitutes (which I am sure the Catholics have a very good reason for defending that particular industry)

     As per usual, whenever the Catholic Church gives way on such an issue it is important to read for the double speak hypocrisy involved.
     • NickS 6.1.1

       21 November 2010 at 4:45 pm

       And if you’d read on, you’d have noticed there’s some translation issues, usch as the Italian version meaning female prostitutes, and a ton of leeway with the “non-procreation” bit for pre-marital and extra-marital buggery 😉

       Though what Pope Palpatine should have said is that all pre-marital sex is except from the condom ban where ever HIV is an issue. And then crucified any Bishops and Priests who go against in Africa.
   • Herodotus 6.2

     21 November 2010 at 5:04 pm

     Well, I wont be touching Halal/Khosher beef, lamb and goat ever again. Well Nick I take it you intend to go vegetarian, as the majority of our meat sold in supermarkets and the like is killed using Hala approved means .i.e The animal is still technicaly alive wafter stunning and before the final act and the slaughter facing Mecca. I hope you have plenty of recipes for lentils. Couldn’t find the exact link but here is something close
     http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/mp/8016722/concern-in-uk-over-nz-halal-lamb/2/
     • NickS 6.2.1

       21 November 2010 at 8:31 pm

       Evidently you missed the part were it says

       New Zealand’s certified halal slaughter is government regulated and complies with animal welfare requirements.

       The version of Halal used in NZ is basically the same as the normal process of hitting the animal in the head with a bolt gun, only they’re prayed for before-hand. In effect, it’s basically a religious version of “green-wash” that was only possible due the demand for NZ meat, and our ban on live exports, plus some liberal imams who provide the theological backing for it. So it’s hardly the same as what John Hari is against.

       But, Khosher meat is still on the “wtf?” list.
     • Marty G 6.2.2

       21 November 2010 at 10:26 pm

       the anti-halal campaign in the uk is thinly veiled racism against muslims from the Sun and others.

       as i understand it, nearly all the meat produced here is halal – more efficient for the meatworks that way.
   • Vicky32 6.3

     21 November 2010 at 5:18 pm

     NickS, I am really very sure indeed that you actually know that this is not news, but has was the policy of the previous Pope as well – I have been highly amused all day that this *news* has been suddenly discovered!
     Deb 🙂
     • NickS 6.3.1

       21 November 2010 at 8:35 pm

       And where prey tell did he say this?

       Because ever since the emergence of the HIV epidemic in Africa, the Catholic Church has done nothing but proclaim abstinence and marriage as the only ways to stop it. On top of Bishops and Priests trying to keep up with the rhetoric coming from the evangelical nutsos about how HIV is teh wages of sin, and how condoms have teeny-tiny littl’ holes in them to allow HIV through. Amongst other bullshit.
   • KJT 6.4

     22 November 2010 at 8:29 am

     Halal killed animals in NZ are stunned first.
7. Zorr 7

   21 November 2010 at 4:44 pm

   Just had to share this too as it is a truly scary indicator. As many on this site will know that official unemployment stats in the US don’t track those that have run out of unemployment assistance or those that have just given up. “Official” unemployment numbers are at ~10% but some of the other regularly used stats show US unemployment being easily >15%. Why do we want a FTA with a country that can’t even care for its own populace?

   http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/22-americans-out-work-why-obsession-d
   (the actual article is on the political obsession with their deficit in the face of unemployment – seems kind of similar to our NACToids)
   • Colonial Viper 7.1

     21 November 2010 at 9:16 pm

     Why do we want a FTA with a country that can but won’t even care for its own populace?

     yeah fixed that for you.

     Earlier this year US was spending US$6.7B per month in Afghanistan, and since then troop numbers have only increased. That same expenditure would pay for 4-5M unemployed to get to work on various civic/municipal projects back on US soil but who gives a damn about that.
8. salsy 8

   21 November 2010 at 7:10 pm

   Could it be that Goff has finally got his game on? Awesome repsonse to Mr Slimey..

   Prime Minister John Key last night told reporters that he saw Ms Parata’s result as a win and it would raise questions about Mr Goff’s leadership.

   Mr Goff dismissed that saying: “That’s just straight political spin and he celebrates his loss at the by-election. I hope he’ll celebrate his loss next year in the same way.”
   • M 8.1

     21 November 2010 at 10:07 pm

     Way to go Phil, from small acorns great oaks grow – just keep tightening those thumb screws.
9. Carol 9

   21 November 2010 at 7:58 pm

   I didn’t watch the 6pm news tonight, but it doesn’t look like the TV news picked up on this:

   http://www.odt.co.nz/news/politics/137309/majority-feel-worse-after-tax-changes-poll

   Sun, 21 Nov 2010
   News: Politics

   More people are unhappy with tax changes than are pleased, a new poll shows.

   On October 1, the Government increased GST from 12.5 percent to 15 percent, increased benefits and reduced personal income tax rates.

   A nationwide HorizonPoll survey of 1558 people between November 16 and 19 found 8.2 percent of those surveyed felt better off because of the changes while 53.5 percent thought they were worse off.

   A substantial group, 35.6 percent, felt their situation was unchanged.

   Of lower income households, 71.5 percent earning less than $20,000 a year felt worse off while 60 percent of those earning between $20,000 and $30,000 felt the same.

   …
   Among National voters, 14.9 percent felt better off, 44.6 percent were neutral and 37.3 percent said they were worse off.

   Of Labour voters, 4.2 percent feel better off, 30.4 percent neither better nor worse and 62.9 percent worse off.

   The poll has a margin of error of 2.5 percent.

   What a surprise!
   • jcuknz 9.1

     21 November 2010 at 10:27 pm

     Not really a suprise … labour supporters tend to believe the rubbish their leaders put out on this subject.
     A rather silly and pointless poll because I doubt if many people can differenciate between the effects of GST/tax cut and inflationary happenings of late
     • Colonial Viper 9.1.1

       21 November 2010 at 10:48 pm

       A rather silly and pointless poll because I doubt if many people can differenciate between the effects of GST/tax cut and inflationary happenings of late

       You are right, they probably can’t objectively tell but the importance of the poll is in whether or not people feel they are better or worse off at the moment and what they are blaming for it.
     • felix 9.1.2

       22 November 2010 at 1:53 am

       “…differenciate between the effects of GST/tax cut and inflationary happenings of late”

       You say that as if raising GST and inflation are actually unrelated.

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1. The Standard: posted on 20 November 2010 at 5:08 pm

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