Open mike 22/11/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 22nd, 2024 - 45 comments
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45 comments on “Open mike 22/11/2024 ”

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  1. Bearded Git 1
    22 November 2024 at 6:19 am

    Netanyahu is now a wanted war criminal in 124 countries who have signed up to the International Criminal Court (ICC). This from the Guardian today:

    "The ICC arrest warrant represents a “historic breakthrough for justice”, Amnesty International's secretary general, Agnès Callamard, said in a statement.

    She urged “the beginning of the end of the persistent and pervasive impunity at the heart of the human rights crisis” in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory. Callamard’s statement reads:

    "The wheels of international justice have finally caught up with those who are alleged to be responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity committed in Palestine and Israel."

    “Prime Minister Netanyahu is now officially a wanted man,” she continued, as she called on ICC member states and the international community to “stop at nothing until these individuals are brought to trial”.

    “There can be no ‘safe haven’ for those alleged to have committed war crimes and crimes against humanity,” she said."

    About time too.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/nov/21/international-criminal-court-icc-arrest-warrant-benjamin-netanyahu-yoav-gallant-mohamed-deif-israel-gaza-war-crimes#top-of-blog

    • Jenny 1.1
      22 November 2024 at 12:10 pm

      ‘

      All of as sudden it becomes real

      New Zealand will soon have to start thinking about whether we should still be allowing IDF soldiers on furlough, who may have been involved in committing war crimes and crimes against humanity, to holiday here in New Zealand.

      As a signatory the genocide convention New Zealand is compelled to act to prevent genocide. How many New Zealand citizens for instance are fighting for the Netanyahu regime?

      How many New Zealanders are fighting for a regime involved in committing a plausible genocide?

      Even if it is only for their own protection, shouldn't we be banning NZ citizens from serving with the IDF?

      How come we only hear of them only when they suffer a fatality?

      Should they be on a watch list in case they are named in an international investigation and we legally required to apprehend them and hand them over to the ICC for trial, as we are required to as a signatory to the Rome Statute?

    • SPC 1.2
      22 November 2024 at 3:31 pm

      So it continues.

      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/20/us-vetoes-un-security-council-resolution-demanding-gaza-ceasefire

      A US official ahead of the vote made clear that the US will only support a resolution explicitly calling for the release of all remaining hostages as a key part of the ceasefire.

      Is the USA is supporting Israel blocking aid as a tactic to coerce the release of hostages?

      Did not the Israeli justice on the ICC agree that (blocking aid) was a war crime/form of genocide?

      Or are they saying that aid can be delivered despite there being no cease-fire?

      Where is the evidence?

      There needs to be a cease-fire (at least to Jan 20) to enable a focus on aid delivery.

      There is the growing likelihood of case against POTUS Biden (or ex POTUS Biden) if there is the death toll expected by Lancet, as per lack of aid delivery.

  2. Bearded Git 2
    22 November 2024 at 6:51 am

    Hooton lays into Luxon today saying that he is out of his depth and should resign. From the Herald:

    "Luxon has proven too personally and politically weak to exercise his authority as Prime Minister to decide that killing the [te Tiriti] bill before introduction was in the best interests of country and party. As in the country at large, he is now rightly regarded as impotent by both National’s liberals and conservatives, and as an easy-beat in negotiations by his coalition partners.

    Luxon’s leadership of country and party will stumble on while achieving little and meaning less. He will remain Prime Minister only because he lacks the self-awareness to know it would be better for New Zealand and his own reputation to accept he is completely out of his depth."

    Paywalled:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/luxon-completely-out-of-his-depth-matthew-hooton/PFV32UVMLZC6TAFOBPDAX7KLRE/

    • thinker 2.1
      22 November 2024 at 7:28 am

      Hmmm.

      I wonder whose tent Hootons camped outside.

      He must have a preferred alternative.

      Addendum. I just worked it out. National knows the bill was a disaster and may be tossing Luxon under the bus?

      • KJT 2.1.1
        22 November 2024 at 7:35 am

        Do we smell a BBQ?

        • thinker 2.1.1.1
          22 November 2024 at 7:46 am

          I reckon.

          What does it for me is the line about Luxon being too weak to kill the bill rather than introduce it.

          As if Luxon represented National's leadership unilaterally during the coalition negotiations.

          Seems to me it's washing day and someone may be hung out to dry, along with that person's groupies, some of whom are also all mouth and no trousers.

          I could be quite wrong though. Wishful thinking can do that.

          • Mike the Lefty 2.1.1.1.1
            22 November 2024 at 9:01 am

            There is a kind of irony in all this.

            Jacinda got reviled because she showed strong leadership, and here we have Luxon still loved by a fair proportion of the electorate even though he shows weak leadership.

            The conspiracy theorists and anarchists (who late strong government leadership) must be stronger than I thought.

            • Incognito 2.1.1.1.1.1
              22 November 2024 at 9:15 am

              Cracks in the CoC are greatly overblown, IMO, and so is Luxon’s alleged ‘weak leadership’. All three CoC partners are happily extracting their pound of flesh with their personal fiefdoms & funds to play with. They’re putting on a great Truman Show for us believing that we’re watching them when in actual fact it’s the other way round. Inflation is going down, house prices will go up again, business confidence is going up, and in 2 years’ time the economy is likely to look different (better) than it does feel know. Meanwhile trust will erode in many vital areas and state-support will be slowly dismantled, stone by stone, cut by cut.

            • observer 2.1.1.1.1.2
              22 November 2024 at 2:05 pm

              "here we have Luxon still loved by a fair proportion of the electorate even though he shows weak leadership."

              No evidence at all that Luxon is loved, even by Nat voters. Way, way below the personal ratings in the first term of Key, Ardern, Clark.

              Support for the government or National is not the same as support for the PM. Approval and preference are 2 distinct polling questions.

      • Jimmy 2.1.2
        22 November 2024 at 12:43 pm

        Don't forget, Mathew Hooten was the person who thought Todd Muller was the answer to National's problems. So many people no longer really listen to him very seriously.

        • observer 2.1.2.1
          22 November 2024 at 2:09 pm

          Maybe, but the list of other commentators (even on the Right) who sing Luxon's praises is very short.

      • Cricklewood 2.1.3
        22 November 2024 at 1:58 pm

        Think Hooton lost a heap credibilty when he thought Todd Muller would be a capable party leader / prime minister. I'd bet hes pretty salty about how that went down.

    • Tony Veitch 2.2
      22 November 2024 at 7:29 am

      A text-book example of the Dunning-Kruger Affect!

    • Incognito 2.3
      22 November 2024 at 8:33 am

      So, the PM should override the process that he helped set in motion and tell the SC to cut the ‘debate’ short?

      • Mac1 2.3.1
        22 November 2024 at 9:00 am

        An interesting alternative history scenario would be to consider what would have happened if Luxon during negotiations had totally rejected ACT's treaty bill then.

        Would ACT have accepted that or forced Luxon to call a snap election? How would both parties have fared especially considering ACT's propaganda/media funding reach?

        How would Winston have reacted to this, or further, to having his pet projects canned?

        I believe that this is the next learning in our journey towards full MMP statehood, when minor parties are tested and bested by either grand coalitions or issues being referred back to the people in a snap election.

        • observer 2.3.1.1
          22 November 2024 at 1:58 pm

          It's amazing (and frankly disheartening) that this myth about Luxon calling a snap election persists, on left as well as right. It's just not possible.

          Luxon was not PM and therefore could not have called an election if those negotiations had broken down. The Governor-General would have said "Keep talking", for months if necessary. Chris Hipkins (caretaker PM) would have had the right to negotiate to form a government, even though he probably would have failed. The G-G would have made clear that another election was the last option, and Winston would have had to talk to Hipkins before that happened.

          The only realistic alternative outcome would have been ACT outside Cabinet, supporting National on conf & supp. No way would Seymour have said to National voters "I promise to support National but actually I refuse to, because of the first reading of a bill that won't become law anyway." He'd be toast. (And that's before the rebellions inside both National and ACT, if he even contemplated another election after they had just won one.)

    • Ad 2.4
      22 November 2024 at 9:25 am

      Look I agree with him but National's polls are fine. There's no threat.

      I'm just really surprised the PM hasn't had the sense to offoad the uproar properly onto ACT. A decent Chief of Staff should have had this covered.

    • mikesh 2.5
      22 November 2024 at 10:45 am

      If he and his party disagreed with the holding of the offensive referendum then he should not have agreed to the its inclusion in the coalition agreement. Having allowed its inclusion he needs to be be prepared to see it become law. A strong leader would have called for another election, or threatened to do so, rather than include something he disagreed with to be part of the coalition agreement.

      A strong leader would not consider a dead rat a dietary item.

      • KJT 2.5.1
        22 November 2024 at 4:46 pm

        It is entirely predictable.

        National is happy for ACT to be a stalking horse for policies they know are too extreme for the majority of voters.

        Wait for it. After six months of softening up National, or one of the other puppets will introduce a seemingly milder version of the bill.

        Meanwhile, similar to nuclear weapons for the Lange Douglas Government, this is also a useful distraction from The Coalition of cockups gnawing their way through the countries foundations like a bunch of rats.

        While we are distracted, the deficit, society and the economy is collapsing from austerity and privatisation.

        • SPC 2.5.1.1
          22 November 2024 at 5:08 pm

          National's focus is the WT. Another hikoi matter.

          The ACT lot are expected to push for a citizen initiated referendum.

          An alternative one, would call for a ban on referendum on the Treaty.

  3. Ad 3
    22 November 2024 at 9:32 am

    It takes a special kind of mental magic for a Reserve Bank-caused recession to be deliberately extended by the National government, who then wonder why getting back to surplus will take years longer.

    Treasury appear to have an even more tenuous grip on our reality every quarter, which is a plague to a Minister preparing the 2025 budget bids.

    • SPC 3.1
      23 November 2024 at 1:40 pm

      Most of the inflation fall is external/imported, rather than domestic.

      The RB role was holding up the dollar value (while other nations had higher interest rates too).

      It also encouraged people to save with deposit rates over 5% (this money will either flow back into power company shares once the OCR is cut back further or into home improvements/granny flats etc).

      The governments own part – the government actions (laying off workers, not building hospitals nor school upgrades, not fully funding primary health nor the Health Authority development and holding back Kainga Ora) to afford the tax changes, is on them. It not only exacerbated the recession, but will lead to dire future consequences – it will result in a one or two term (it deserves to be one) governance.

      Their fixation on the public debt and budget management, without any focus on the limited breadth of our tax base, amazes most of the worlds economists.

      They seem determined to make us dependent on foreign capital while splurging out on roads – typical of their entire economic thinking being more of the past than the future (not just in open defiance of concern about GW, but seems to be par for the course for the party of Think Big, that obstructed wealth/super fund in the 70's.***

      PS***and wants us to revisit the Bastion Point Hikoi era, once a year from now on ….to use kulture kampf to sustain votes as we decline to the depths of the first world – a rentier economy with a class division.

  4. Patricia Bremner 4
    22 November 2024 at 9:39 am

    Luxon told us he was aligned with Act, but "He did not know Winston"

    Now he has a racist either side of him and he is happy with their policies.

    His Government meant every mean move, but they were surprised by the size and mix of the Hikoi, however, as Luxon told us during another poorer Poll result, "I don't care!"

    He is a short term PM there to meet Atlas objectives, and he will move elsewhere for some position or other, and will not lie in the hotbed he has made here imo.

  5. Sanctuary 5
    22 November 2024 at 9:53 am

    Well this is depressing – the German army has formally asked German industry to start preparing for a war with Russia:

    "… A secret strategy paper clearly outlines the role of the economy should Putin attack in the east. The German army has concrete suggestions on how companies should prepare themselves…."

    https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/operationsplan-deutschland-wie-die-bundeswehr-unternehmen-auf-krieg-in-deutschland-vorbereitet-110118573.html

    • mikesh 5.1
      23 November 2024 at 10:44 am

      Putin is sometimes accused of paranoia, but when it comes to paranoia the European nations should take a good hard look at themselves.

      • joe90 5.1.1
        23 November 2024 at 11:33 am

        but when it comes to paranoia the European nations should take a good hard look at themselves.

        Of course they should.

        /

        – Jerzy Bohdan Szumczyk

        "Red Army soldiers don't believe in 'individual liaisons' with German women," wrote the playwright Zakhar Agranenko in his diary when serving as an officer of marine infantry in East Prussia. "Nine, ten, twelve men at a time – they rape them on a collective basis."

        https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11

  6. Sanctuary 6
    22 November 2024 at 10:01 am

    Interesting stuff from Hooton. For the alert connoisseur of gallery Kremlinology Benedict Collins was rather cryptic on the news last night when discussing Erica Stanford's swearing at Jan Tinetti, pivoting to a general discussion of how it is reported she swears all the time under her breath and if she keeps it up she could be "stood down". Sound an awful lot like someone has been whispering off the record against a potential challenger to Luxon….

  7. koina 7
    22 November 2024 at 10:09 am

    Same as the '75 Hikoi I was on.

    How many on this site were on the '75 Hikoi?

    I saw this exact same scenario unfold 50 years ago so I knew nothing would change.

    Everyone has claimed victory as I predicted.

    TPM will gain the Maori vote but the Right wing strengthen their anti Maori vote.

    Act has got the angry White male vote tied up and is certain to be returned in 2026.

    National is happy ACT has done their dirty work for them and is safe again in 2026

    NZF the immigration hate party is safe again in 2026 (If Peters is still around)

    Labour and the Greens are in heavy defeat mode and wont be seen again till 2027

    when the swinging voters begin blaming the sitting Govt for their problems.

    Something about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

    The one positive for me to celebrate is that David Seymour ironically has confirmed once and for all we are not one people, have never been one people and will never ever be one people.

    Next stop the 2074 Hikoi.

    • Chris 7.1
      22 November 2024 at 10:56 am

      One important factor not accounted for is the affect the growing number of Kohanga Reo kids are having on things. These kids may be Aotearoa's only hope.

    • weka 7.2
      22 November 2024 at 12:07 pm

      I was 9 in 1974, I remember seeing the hikoi on tv, it was formative on my politics so that even though I was a white girl from down south, by the time I was 15 I was marching against the Tour.

      Some things have changed since then (positives and negatives, but Treaty settlements are an obvious example, and now we are in danger of losing gains, so maybe explain what you think hasn't changed?

      • koina 7.2.1
        22 November 2024 at 1:57 pm

        It is significant that one of the most toxic Prime Ministers Robert Muldoon won in a landslide on Nov 29th 1975 just 47 days after the '75 Hikoi reached Parliament the previous month on October the 13th.

        Thats what the good White folk thought of the Hikoi in '75.

        What effect has this Hikoi had?

        Well by my reckoning this Hikoi has simply reinforced the majority of White folks belief that Maori are all trouble and that ACT claiming White folk have no case to answer with regards Cheatie issue is indeed correct.

        The number of White people at the Parliament hikoi account for less than a quarter of 1% of the White population and are probably all left wing voters so the political dynamics actually do not alter one iota.

        The 2023 election was won by the Right wing successfully blaming Maori for all White peoples problems and convincing the Whites to vote in a hard Right wing White Government to bash the Maoris and save the country from total destruction.

        The three Prime Ministers have each played their cards perfectly during this Treaty Principle bill and will all be returned in 2026 with slightly reduced but still large majorities. Job done ..

        A crucial factor is that I see things through brown skin eyes where I am the hated minority whereas you are always safe being part of the acceptable White majority.

        BTW I went and watched three games in 1981 to observe what was happening inside and outside of the ground. But that is another discussion for another time.

        • thinker 7.2.1.1
          22 November 2024 at 4:47 pm

          A crucial factor is that I see things through brown skin eyes where I am the hated minority whereas you are always safe being part of the acceptable White majority.

          I hope one day you'll be able to take those blinkers off, my friend, and see that the world is changing.

          The reason National is hurriedly trying to distance itself from sanctioning the bill and Seymour is pouting, trying to pretend that he's so sanctimonious is because this time the outcome was different.

  8. tWig 8
    22 November 2024 at 11:12 am

    Gerry Brownlee shows his racist chops in the past, with a" gripe that Māori were misinterpreting & misusing the Treat"

    Debunking conspiracies aotearoa shows Brownlee being schooled at the time.

  9. tWig 9
    22 November 2024 at 11:21 am

    Big Hairy News clip Chris Hipkins' response to the Treaty hikoi (from 10 min, for about 10 min). What a difference to Luxon's lame media presence.

    Chewie thinks Hipkins’ questioning of the government over this issue is being under-reported in the media. And says ‘watch Parliament TV question time’.

  10. joe90 10
    22 November 2024 at 1:48 pm

    Why we can't have nice things like hospitals and hip ops.

    /

    @OliverLewis

    Pretty incredible graph from Treasury showing NZTA's investment intentions over the next decade ($120b) dwarfing other agencies!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GcyTkwAXwAAc1aJ?format=jpg&name=medium

    https://xcancel.com/OliverLewis/status/1859023198194725238

    • alwyn 10.1
      22 November 2024 at 3:08 pm

      Whatever happened to the Health and Defense numbers?

      • Cinder 10.1.1
        22 November 2024 at 5:25 pm

        Simian Brow has tarmacked over those numbers…

        Thats how much he loves his brrm brrmmms. Can't we just give him some hot wheels instead?