Open mike 23/07/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 23rd, 2011 - 61 comments
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61 comments on “Open mike 23/07/2011 ”

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  1. Carol 1
    23 July 2011 at 6:46 am

    This is no doubt a big shock for the people of Norway. And it’s not the kind of country that I’d have expected an attack of this sort.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14254260

    But part of the speculation (as in the above link) is that Norway is a weak link, an relatively easy target in NATO and the forces in Afghantistan. The Al Qaeda network is the prime suspect, apparently because it’s thought the new leader wants to make his mark.

    Is there a lesson in this for NZ?

    And why are there so far, no reports of this on Stuff or NZH or TV3? It’s on the TVNZ news website & RNZ news.

    • Carol 1.1
      23 July 2011 at 7:18 am

      Hmmm. Jonkey’s photo op got a big bit of exposure on Al Jazeera news, with Obama, mainly becuase after Obama talked about the NZ-US relationship, he made a statement about the attacks in Oslo. JK just sat there grinning while Obama made all the comments. What a dork!

      • jackal 1.1.1
        23 July 2011 at 10:54 am

        Duncan Garner was just talking it up on the Nation saying “every door has been opened.” But then he contradicted himself by saying some important people couldn’t meet with Shonkey because they had important debt crises talks. If people are putting off meetings because they have more important things to do, I wouldn’t describe that as every door has been opened. What a crock!

        • Reality Bytes 1.1.1.1
          23 July 2011 at 7:43 pm

          Yeah and the stuff.co.nz ran a story titled “US grants John Key’s every wish”, and in the same story:

          “Key’s suggestion that a coast guard ship visit New Zealand was quietly batted aside by the Americans.”

          Hello editors? God-damnit the standard of journalism in this country sucks.

          • felix 1.1.1.1.1
            23 July 2011 at 7:53 pm

            These examples are only problematic for those who think words have meaning.

            For example the wilfully illiterate right-wingers will interpret that last one as “out of the ones they granted, every one was granted”.

            And why would they interpret it thus? Because they’re a bunch of fuckwits, that’s why.

        • Frank Macskasy 1.1.1.2
          25 July 2011 at 12:33 am

          Yeah, i picked up on that as well, J.

      • prism 1.1.2
        23 July 2011 at 11:58 am

        I caught some comment by Obama about us having more to do with the USA that made me uneasy. It is well known that when big ships turn over and sink that they drag nearby objects down with them. I don’t want us to be the USAs dinghy.

        They’ll get us involved in their machinations while they swan around on the surface trumpeting high integrity and standards of human rights and a past history of great democracy, and under the surface carrying on subterranean ops like Mac the Knife.

        • Colonial Viper 1.1.2.1
          23 July 2011 at 7:49 pm

          It is well known that when big ships turn over and sink that they drag nearby objects down with them.

          The big fat heavy anchor for the US at the moment is the USD. They can’t do anything except continue to weaken and debase it, and their political system won’t allow them to raise enough tax to sort out their country without further massive borrowing.

        • rosy 1.1.2.2
          25 July 2011 at 12:37 am

          “It is well known that when big ships turn over and sink that they drag nearby objects down with them. I don’t want us to be the USAs dinghy.”

          Nice metaphor, Prism.

    • Carol 1.2
      23 July 2011 at 8:12 am

      I see, Stuff is trying to downplay the Oslo attacks and keep Obama meets Key as it’s headline news.

      • Deadly_NZ 1.2.1
        23 July 2011 at 4:18 pm

        And still NOTHING about Labours policy release earlier in the week. How can you win an election if the media will not report your policy releases, (something about procurement or was I dreaming?( well at least the Dominion reported it. But the comments section is still empty.)) but is rampant over any little mistake.

    • Vicky32 1.3
      24 July 2011 at 6:08 pm

      My son phoned at 07.00 on his way home on Saturday morning,  from a night shift (apparently, towards morning they have little to do but check the BBC news on the internet! 🙂 ) to tell me about it. It wasn’t known then that Al Q had nowt to do with it…

  2. Lazy Susan 2
    23 July 2011 at 7:25 am

    I have had the dubious pleasure of receiving a letter from John Boscawen, Act Party with a “Parliamentary Survey”. According to the letter he’s written to 100,000 households.

    The letter draws equivalence between the Greek debt crisis and New Zealand’s financial position with lines like “New Zealand’s total overseas debt, public and private, is nearly as bad as Greece’s” and “Are we the Greeks of the South Pacific”

    The letter finishes with the following loaded question offering the reader to tick the apprpriate answer:

    ( ) I support balancing the budget – no more spend, borrow and hope

    or

    ( ) I support further increases to government spending, borrowing and taxation

    You then fill in contact details – return to Boscawen and apparently he’s going to deliver the results of the survey to Parliament.

    What the letter fails to point out of course is that most of our debt is private debt, not public debt as it is in Greece. This debt has been used to fuel property speculation in the housing and farming sector. If we want to reduce our total overseas debt, in the long term, policies such as Labour’s proposed CGT would be a good place to start.

    This looks like blatant electioneering – anyone know what budget this might be coming out of? 100,000 households wouldn’t come cheap.

    • Secret Squirrel 2.1
      23 July 2011 at 8:41 am

      I thought Boscawen was a straight up hardworking MP (I think generally he is), but this makes him look like just another bullshitting parliamentary rorter.

    • prism 2.2
      23 July 2011 at 12:09 pm

      If this ACT survey succeeds in its aims to receive many loaded replies (I received one of these) then it will be an indication of an ignorance of politics and the economy in a large part of the NZ population that lacks discernment. This then is likely to lead to a future with living conditions that accelerate downwards and mediocre politicians who have no brain, vision or competence to address the problems much less restore responsible government policies and living conditions. I think in Alice in Wonderland there was a queer tea party. We may have a similar story to tell.

    • the pink postman 2.3
      23 July 2011 at 3:00 pm

      Our local Tory (Nat) MP has also been very busy sending propaganda and questionnaires.We have also had personal letters from Key telling us how good it all is . All delivered by NZ Mail.
      All paid for by the taxpayer. The local candidate also has half page adverts in the local rag . Nothing from Labour which is rathet bad. How can National get away with this yet Labour gets knocked back by the election commision . Something stinks!

      • Deadly_NZ 2.3.1
        23 July 2011 at 4:28 pm

        Simple, get every one on here that gets one to complain to the Election Commission. How many complaints does it take????? Play them at their own game. Also if you see anything that’s not kosher Complain…. well I assume that they only have a set amount of cash to use for the election, so if you get shonky letters promoting KY then complain, and keep on complaining. I will if I get one without the correct badging and shit, that Whaleslime is bleating over about the Labour Party

  3. Colonial Viper 3
    23 July 2011 at 9:27 am

    Norway attacked, government + Labour Party targetted

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/22/us-norway-blast-view-idUSTRE76L5RR20110722

    Highly organised and lethal attack. Has potential to be a falseflag psychological op striking one of Europe’s more stable prosperous social democracies.

    Usual suspects now being blamed, muslims, immigrant groups, other religious groups, libyan fanatics etc. As yet very few facts are known.

    One to watch – this happening at a time of increasing EU financial instability driven by big big money flows.

    -edit didn’t see your post Carol 🙂

  4. marty mars 4
    23 July 2011 at 9:49 am

    30 years ago we joined arms and marched for our values – for equality.

    “During the Tour we put away our supposed differences to work cooperatively. The cause didn’t differenciate on ethnic or colour lines, age, gender or sexuality, class or political persuasion – all worked towards the goal of equality because that goal was in alignment with our values – nothing has changed and everything has changed. The cause is the same but the vehicle to effect change is different.”

    “I call on all those who marched and opposed the Springbok Tour to consider that cause and the challenges we face today. Which political party today, aligns with our marching and protesting back then. I know what john Minto and Hone think – it is the Mana Party. I agree with them.”

    http://mars2earth.blogspot.com/2011/07/tour-lessons-for-today.html

    The exhilaration and connection we felt back then can be felt again today – opposing the Springbok Tour didn’t fractionate or divide us – it bought us together then, and the cause of equality can bring us together again, today.

    • Pete George 4.1
      23 July 2011 at 10:22 am

      Trying to resurrect the Springbok Tour mentality in relation to modern issues looks more try-hard than the Brash resurrection, the only thing going for it is it’s a bit more recent than the waterside strike.

      Yearning for past glory or gory is a hopeless story.

      The Springbok tour was very divisive in this country, is that the aim of Mana?

      • marty mars 4.1.1
        23 July 2011 at 10:42 am

        try talking about what you know – might give some nice long silences.

        • Pete George 4.1.1.1
          23 July 2011 at 11:00 am

          Looking forward is better than looking backwards, particularly looking back so far to a completely different issue. New Zealand today is nothing like South Africa thirty years ago.

          It doesn’t take much to know that.

          • marty mars 4.1.1.1.1
            23 July 2011 at 11:04 am

            is saying something that means nothing the same as saying nothing?

            It takes a bit to know the difference Pete.

            Equality is the issue back then and today.

            • Pete George 4.1.1.1.1.1
              23 July 2011 at 11:26 am

              You’re unlikely to get many people fighting in the streets for “equality”.

              And equality is not something that can be imposed. It’s ok to try for it a bit but it’s basically undefinable and unachievable, everyone has different ideas of what’s equal.

              • marty mars …
                23 July 2011 at 11:33 am

                Have you looked around the world recently?

                Where were you on the tour pete – did it activate any of your core beliefs?

                • Pete George …
                  23 July 2011 at 12:59 pm

                  I was quite remote from the tour, my first daughter was born then and I was living in rural Otago, well away from the action with more important things to be concerned about.

                  Sure, I considered the different arguments over the tour, the rights of people in other countries versus the rights of people to do what they wanted here, the right to protest versus the rule of law.

                  I was anti apartheid and in particular admired rugby players who made stands against it. But I also thought that rights and freedoms here were important too.

                  I was annoyed that opportunity seekers and those who liked any old excuse for anarchy caused more mayhem than was justified.

                  And I think that’s all got very little to do with present day New Zealand.

                  • felix …
                    23 July 2011 at 1:21 pm

                    Anyone surprised that Pete didn’t have a position on the tour? Just like that other deeply inspirational politician John Key.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      23 July 2011 at 4:27 pm

                      Yeah I’m deeply surprised, a man with his principles, who would’ve thought. Actually I’m quite taken aback.

              • Colonial Viper …
                23 July 2011 at 11:56 am

                And equality is not something that can be imposed. It’s ok to try for it a bit but it’s basically undefinable and unachievable, everyone has different ideas of what’s equal.

                Don’t try this bullshit post modernism ‘equality means whatever you want it to mean so it means nothing’

                When a woman doing the same job as a man gets 5% less pay, that’s not equal geddit? And a million other examples.

                • Pete George …
                  23 July 2011 at 12:13 pm

                  Your model, communism, failed as a concept last century. We are moving forward with a more balanced mixed model, it will never be perfect but better than anything blind idealism will every come up with.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    23 July 2011 at 1:00 pm

                    Commun1sm hasn’t yet been tried. The USSR, China etc were/are state capitalist. You can tell this by the oppression and lack of democracy.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    23 July 2011 at 1:08 pm

                    successful democratic socialist enterprises and non profits worth billions of dollars is what we need to develop in this country.

                    but better than anything blind idealism will every come up with.

                    Actually, we need to rekindle idealism and ideals in NZ.

                    Not succumb to your “its good enough to sell out” ideology

              • the pink postman …
                23 July 2011 at 3:11 pm

                They did in the 1930s PeteG,.the Spanish Civil War. However the poor sods who fought the Fascists came back to abuse . Many were blacklisted and refused work. Most stayed unemployed until their country once again needed them to fight the same enemy. This was the story in Aotearoa and the UK . Im afraid the Tories and their friends still have the most power.
                However we won the fight against apartheid and we may (note may) win the day with the Murdoch scandal

          • prism 4.1.1.1.2
            23 July 2011 at 12:15 pm

            Pete G 11am

            Looking forward is better than looking backwards, particularly looking back so far to a completely different issue.

            Remember the truism of Santayana “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. .” If you don’t understand the whys and wherefores of the past then you are not much better than a newborn babe when forming opinions.

            • Pete George 4.1.1.1.2.1
              23 July 2011 at 12:32 pm

              I agree, you should look at and learn from the past, but you still need to devote much more time looking at the present and at what can and should be done in the future.

              A lot of lessons were learnt from the Springbok tour, some good and some bad. I doubt many people would want to resurrect anything like that again without a damn good reason, and the ambitions of a fringe political group don’t come close.

              • marty mars …
                23 July 2011 at 2:57 pm

                resurrect what? – the attitude and feelings of believing in equality and letting the powers that be know it – you never did it in the first place so it’s no wonder you wouldn’t now – no loss because sitter on the fencers weren’t the intended audience – I was talking to those who did protest, who did believe enough to put themselves on the line.

              • McFlock …
                23 July 2011 at 4:00 pm

                So we’re all agreed – we need to boldly look forward, without necessarily knowing what’s behind us, although we should occasionally peek over our shoulder, and side to side, otherwise while we are moving forward we might be ambushed by some sort of resurrected monster that is behind us and moving forward more quickly than us.
                 
                 

            • Treetop 4.1.1.1.2.2
              23 July 2011 at 12:41 pm

              History is a good teacher. History always has a trail, just look at the phone hacking in Britain and how not acting sooner to stop the hackers, who is now being exposed, (politicians, top cops, newspaper heads).

      • felix 4.1.2
        23 July 2011 at 3:20 pm

        “The Springbok tour was very divisive in this country, is that the aim of Mana?”

        Yes the tour was divisive. That’s National for you.

  5. freedom 5
    23 July 2011 at 10:30 am

    hey Peter Squirrel

    some guys have the balls to stand up and admit they are wrong, care to do the same?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5329433/Hewson-puts-the-boot-in-1981-tour

    • millsy 5.1
      23 July 2011 at 10:54 am

      He’ll probably be left off a few Christmas card lists.

      Ever noticed that the rugby players who opposed sporting contact with the Afrikaner regime have found themselves on the outer as far as the NZRFU is concerned?

  6. prism 6
    23 July 2011 at 11:47 am

    Worth listening to for people who want NZ to flourish with employment in the ranks of value added and innovated products. What can we do except the basics of primary extractive industries?? I want to see NZ made on lots more things! And here are some ideas, some history about things we have designed, developed and made and could do now. And note that he will be heard again in September in one of the main centres I suppose.

    11:05 Michael Smythe on Radionz with Kim this morning.
    Michael Smythe is a design enthusiast and practitioner, and the author of New Zealand Design: a History of New Zealand Product Design (Godwit, ISBN: 978-1-86979-574-0). He will be a guest at the Going West Books and Writers Festival 2001 in September.

  7. The Voice of Reason 7
    23 July 2011 at 12:42 pm

    Think I just heard irony free zone and No 1 fan boy Key on National Radio describing himself as ‘the luckiest New Zealand Prime Minister ever!”. I’d suggest his good luck is in inverse proportion to the bad luck the rest of the country is experiencing under his watch, aye?
     
    Still, nice that he’s not bothered that Obama didn’t even know his surname. Jiohn reckons nobody in NZ knows who he really is either.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

    • Colonial Viper 7.1
      23 July 2011 at 12:55 pm

      Key is a hex on this land.

      • chris73 7.1.1
        23 July 2011 at 3:00 pm

        Gee it must be sticking in your craws that no matter what John Key says or does it doesn’t effect his popularity one jot and he’ll be returned as leader of this country

        As Goofey says (in private) “I wanna be like John”

        Hehehehe

        • felix 7.1.1.1
          23 July 2011 at 3:18 pm

          “…no matter what John Key says or does…”

          Interesting admission. You’ll trumpet his popularity, but you won’t back his words or actions.

          Very revealing.

          • chris73 7.1.1.1.1
            23 July 2011 at 5:21 pm

            Interesting yourself, where do you get that from?

            I do indeed back his actions

            • felix 7.1.1.1.1.1
              23 July 2011 at 5:27 pm

              The words “no matter what John Key says or does” implies that you acknowledge that not everything he says and does is all that.

              Otherwise why would you add them? Their only function in the sentence is to separate his popularity from his deeds.

              • chris73 …
                23 July 2011 at 5:38 pm

                The point being that all you lefties wail and nash your teeth and try to paint John Key as some sort of bogeyman

                Yet hes the most popular PM since…well…actually hes the most popular PM ever

                Meaning more Labour supporters prefer John Key as PM to Goofey as PM

                As to your point, he is a politician so of course hes…economical with the truth

  8. Pascal's bookie 8
    23 July 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Ooh scary muslims.

    http://www.facebook.com/people/Anders-Behring-Breivik/100002651290254

    Meanwhile, on KB, unintended irony abounds in the General debate thread as regulars Tutt Tutt about the mortal dangers of immigration to scandinavia, and in the sme comments say helen Clark should have been shot. Though there is some disagreement on the latter point. Hanging Cullen is also debated.

  9. Ianupnorth 9
    23 July 2011 at 1:50 pm

    Something really nice about seeing the most right wing paper in the UK suddenly realise everything they have believed in has created the current global meltdown!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8655106/Im-starting-to-think-that-the-Left-might-actually-be-right.html

    It has taken me more than 30 years as a journalist to ask myself this question, but this week I find that I must: is the Left right after all? You see, one of the great arguments of the Left is that what the Right calls “the free market” is actually a set-up.

    The rich run a global system that allows them to accumulate capital and pay the lowest possible price for labour. The freedom that results applies only to them. The many simply have to work harder, in conditions that grow ever more insecure, to enrich the few. Democratic politics, which purports to enrich the many, is actually in the pocket of those bankers, media barons and other moguls who run and own everything.

    John Key, are you listening?

    • prism 9.1
      23 July 2011 at 3:29 pm

      @Iamupnorth 1.50pm
      Charles Moore wrote this in the linked The Telegraph item.
      “One must always pray that conservatism will be saved, as has so often been the case in the past, by the stupidity of the Left. The Left’s blind faith in the state makes its remedies worse than useless. But the first step is to realise how much ground we have lost, and that there may not be much time left to make it up.”
      but he also says as quoted earlier:
      The rich run a global system that allows them to accumulate capital and pay the lowest possible price for labour. The freedom that results applies only to them.
      I have just heard how some of the poorest paid workers, cleaners are being treated. That backs up his second quote. Yet he really wants conservatism to be saved, because that is where his interests lie I guess, as he is never likely to be forced to seek work as a cleaner.

      The unfair working conditions I heard – A couple have bought a camping ground and want the cleaner on minimum wage to sometimes stay on site till 11 pm till they come home (sort of baby-sitting the site) for no pay. She has recently been phoned and requested to drive their car some miles to pick them up as their car has broken down. With no concern for her own plans and needs, and no doubt with no pay for it either.
      Another cleaner was not on roster and went away for a couple of days, for which she was abused by her angry employers. She was not entitled to days off, and should carry her cellphone with her at all times in case they might want to call her back to work. Another cleaner at the same motel had a young girl with her, who was her daughter helping with the work which her mother was not able to get through in the time paid for. Two workers for one miniscule wage!

      Why would women put up with this. Answer – You work as required or you’re fired. There are plenty of others wanting a job.

      Other job sectors also have low wages ie co-pilots being paid in the $30,000’s.

      The harsh self-centred class system way of treating workers of early NZ is being reproduced with the erosion of controls to protect workers who are also on low incomes. A double whammy started decades ago and into which no government has made reasonable inroads.

      • Colonial Viper 9.1.1
        23 July 2011 at 4:24 pm

        Ahem. Employers seem to forget how many tens of thousands of dollars of damage the average employee can inadvertently do to a business in seconds.

        You know, like when workers during the industrial revolution threw their wooden shoes called ‘sabot’ into machinery to stop them.

        I recommend a watching of “Fight Club” to any employer who is determined to be an a-hole.

  10. the pink postman 10
    23 July 2011 at 2:43 pm

    Lock up your daughters theYanks are coming!
    Joking apart what is this this cunning bastard planning for Aotearoa with the USA. Are we going to go back to the days when “Where the USA goes so do we regardless of why?

    • Draco T Bastard 10.1
      23 July 2011 at 2:50 pm

      Looks like it. RWNJs, being the Authoritarians that they are, bow down and kiss arse of those they see as having the most power and are more than happy to sell out an entire country just so that they can get a pat on the head from that power.

  11. rod 11
    23 July 2011 at 2:53 pm

    Perhaps they will all arrive just before the election for more photo opportunities

    • the pink postman 11.1
      23 July 2011 at 3:16 pm

      Bloody hell Rod I never thought of that ! Don’t shout it around ,there is nothing more these Tories would love than the band and flags just before an election

  12. jackal 12
    23 July 2011 at 3:22 pm

    Asshole of the Week Award – Peter Whittall

    Yesterday, the Pike River Mine inquiry revealed that Peter Whittall did not even attend a test evacuation to see if somebody could escape up the 100 metre-plus vertical ventilation shaft, which is the mines only means of escape other than the main 2.3km tunnel. Whittall said he was on the road doing a shareholder briefing, showing exactly how highly Pike River Coal viewed the safety of it’s workers.

    • prism 12.1
      23 July 2011 at 3:42 pm

      @jackal
      Well you delegate these organisational things don’t you. No use having dogs and doing the barking yourself.

  13. rosy 13
    23 July 2011 at 10:28 pm

    What the????? when organisations care more for their agenda that their people. Truly mindboggling
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9759935

    Frustrated aid groups said they want to deploy more food assistance in Somalia but don’t yet have the necessary safety guarantees to do so. The anarchic country has been mired in conflict for two decades and its capital is a war zone.

    The renewed threat from al-Shabab means only a handful of agencies will be able to respond to the hunger crisis in militant-controlled areas of southern Somalia. And the largest provider of food aid — the U.N. World Food Program — isn’t among those being allowed inside.

    The U.N. fears tens of thousands of people already have died in the famine, which has forced Somalis to walk for days in hopes of reaching refugee camps in Kenya and Ethiopia…

    … Somalia’s prolonged drought devolved into famine in part because neither the Somali government nor many aid agencies can fully operate in areas controlled by al-Shabab.