Open Mike 24/05/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 24th, 2018 - 109 comments
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109 comments on “Open Mike 24/05/2018 ”

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  1. Sanctuary 1
    24 May 2018 at 7:00 am

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/104146375/Government-scraps-plans-to-replace-decile-funding-system-for-schools-with-risk-index

    Another broken promise from Labour, they are coming thick and fast.

    Chris Hipkins, having scrapped charter schools (presumably prodded with sharp sticks from the teacher unions into reluctantly enacting that singular action) now looks like he wants to step back from the bowel emptying terror of actually doing something to change our slanted and broken education system and collapse with relief into the familiar fug of bullshitting do-nothing managerialism that seems far, far more suited to Labour’s current cowardly crop of neoliberal tinkerers, party apparachiks and do-nothing careerists.

    I always said give this government a year to prove itself or otherwise. So far, it has been nothing but a rinse and repeat of National lite.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1
      24 May 2018 at 8:08 am

      The risk index was a National Party “initiative”. As such, I expect it was just another way to smash public education, until proven otherwise.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1
        24 May 2018 at 10:11 am

        +111

        • In Vino 1.1.1.1
          24 May 2018 at 6:11 pm

          And, knowing National Govts, over time it would also have proven to be a new means of surreptitious under-funding and cutting costs. State schools would have become poorer under a scheme with a fancy new name.

    • spc 1.2
      24 May 2018 at 11:40 am

      It was a National government plan and one Labour never said they would enact – so no broken promise.

      You also seem to be presuming that National’s own plan was not the neo-liberal move (it involved detailed profiling of each family – birth parent or step-parent family etc rather than the more singular income/decile).

      One reason it was rejected, the cost of $100M the new Minister said there were better uses that had more immediacy.

  2. cleangreen 2
    24 May 2018 at 7:06 am

    A very welcome back TS,
    We all missed you yesterday, where did you go?

    Were you up on the crown range stuck in the snow?
    Anyway welcome home folks.

    Lots to cover today, beginning with Tally’s and Stanford’s found in a leaked report to RNZ apparently lying and fixing the amount they are reporting of catching Hoki, but I was not surprised that these two companies were found lying again.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/358066/fishing-industry-s-lies-revealed-in-leaked-report

    Quote;

    “Some of the country’s biggest fishing companies have been under-reporting their hoki catch by hundreds of tonnes, according to a leaked fisheries report.”

  4. cleangreen 4
    24 May 2018 at 8:10 am

    We still are getting false emails from our Microsoft server even though Mark Zuckaberg are pleading in Europe they did nothing wrong?????

    Bullshit Mark; – fix this then!!!!!!!

    We don’t even have an apple account!!!!!!!!

    Quote; this is what we got today.
    —————————————————————————————————————
    Your Apple ID has been locked out for security reasons.

    Dear customer,
    We regret to inform that your Apple ID has been locked for security reasons.

    We need to confirm your identity because we noticed unusual activity in your account.
    Confirm your identity.
    This is an urgent matter
    Why are you receiving this emails?
    Thank you very much.
    The Apple Accounts Team.
    —————————————————————————————————————–

    • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1
      24 May 2018 at 8:17 am

      Looks like a scam to me. There’s one way to find out though: fill in the form and return the email, and let us know how you get on.

      • cleangreen 4.1.1
        24 May 2018 at 8:30 am

        of course it is a scam and as I said ‘we are not surprised at the web now, it is ‘the wild west’ again out there being run by crooked corporations no doubt.

        Capitalism and the hard right neo-liberals are now very desperate to make a buck it seems.

    • dv 4.2
      24 May 2018 at 8:27 am

      DONT click on any link!!
      Check the email address it come from, see if its an apple address, not some bogus address.

      This was found when the text was put into google.

      Identifying legitimate emails from the iTunes Store – Apple Support

      http://www.apple.com/legal/more-resources/phishing/

      The email its coming from should always end in apple.com.

      Emails from Apple will always address you by name, and never by “Dear customer” or “Dear Sir or Madame”

      Apple will never ask for private details through email.

      You can always log in to http://appleid.apple.com with your Apple Id and passworrd, and if it is locked it will tell you there, and will tell you what to do to unlock it.

      • cleangreen 4.2.1
        24 May 2018 at 8:34 am

        dv – thanks for the ‘constructive feedback – appreciated. 100%

        We binned the email straight away and smelt a rat there but we worry haw many are being rorted this way, so we have sent Zuckerberg a challenge fix it or get a real job.

        • dv 4.2.1.1
          24 May 2018 at 8:42 am

          No problem.

        • alwyn 4.2.1.2
          24 May 2018 at 1:52 pm

          Out of curiosity, and it is a serious question, why do you think that this has something to do with Facebook?
          I do not, and never will have, anything to do with Facebook but I have had the odd e-mail like these. It never occurred to me that it had anything to do with Facebook. What is the connection?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2.2
        24 May 2018 at 8:44 am

        There’s a rash of these at the moment: purporting to be from Contact Energy, the IRD, “Trade-me”, Amazon, etc. etc.

        I’m not sure what Cleangreen thinks Mark Zuckerberg can do about it though. Perhaps he’s mates with Buzz.

      • James 4.2.3
        24 May 2018 at 10:17 am

        Lol – you google that but cannot google the obviously false bitcoins adverts and come on here pretending they are real just because the have key in them.

    • mac1 4.3
      24 May 2018 at 11:20 am

      “Why are you receiving this emails?”
      “We regret to inform that….”

      Bad grammar, usage and spelling is usually a giveaway that an e-mail is spam.

      “This is an urgent matter” Or lack of consistency in punctuation.

  5. One Anonymous Bloke 5
    24 May 2018 at 8:12 am

    These fuckers are reassuringly stupid and greedy.

    They’re not betraying their country out of some sort of ideological bent, it’s just the fastest way they can think of to get paid, and never mind the slug-trail of evidence because President!

    Trump lawyer ‘paid by Ukraine’ to arrange White House talks…

    • cleangreen 5.1
      24 May 2018 at 8:57 am

      Russia, Russia, Russia1!!

      More anti Russia propaganda again.

      We saw today that law changes are afoot in US to scale back the leaking of information and the opposition politicians using intelligence ‘operates’ planted inside politicians offices now.

      Some issues are said to arise when this report is released.

      http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/23/trump-warns-comey-over-looming-ig-report-on-clinton-case-lot-problems.html

      Though Fox is pro-trump we recognise that CNN (that is used by RNZ) is pro-Clinton too.

      So we may learn how to reduce the ‘rampant’ levels of “Dirty politics” here in NZ.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1
        24 May 2018 at 9:02 am

        The linked story alleges corruption involving Ukraine, moran.

        • Rosemary McDonald 5.1.1.1
          24 May 2018 at 9:05 am

          Moron?

        • cleangreen 5.1.1.2
          24 May 2018 at 9:56 am

          OAB Please act civil will you, not be so insulting and personally using defaming aggressive attacks like that word I wont repeat it is so offensive.

          The link we sent is about Trump’s legal team; – about to release a report showing US intelligence being used against his political position and not about Ukraine specifically as you wrongly state, but more about FBI/CIA/NSA using deep state interference and use of ‘source codes’.

          We heard about this when whistle blowers came out (Edward Snowden) ilk etc; and Hillary Clinton email contents. which may be very interesting don’t you think?

          quote;
          ” It’s unclear whether Trump has seen that report, but a draft has been circulated internally. Its release is sure to heighten scrutiny on the bureau’s actions in 2016. Already, reports have emerged that the IG will fault the FBI for sitting on a batch of Clinton emails discovered late in the campaign.”

          • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.2.1
            24 May 2018 at 1:19 pm

            Why are to attempting to derail and change the subject? What has your right wing serial rapist’s propaganda to do with Michael Cohen being greedy and stupid? Stop being so rude: if you must inflict your Clinton drivel on people get some manners and start your own thread.

  6. The Chairman 6
    24 May 2018 at 10:14 am

    PM won’t commit to law change if marijuana referendum successful
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/358067/pm-won-t-commit-to-law-change-if-marijuana-referendum-successful

    On a side note, it’s good there is talk of bringing the referendum forward as the Government failed to address the urgent need under their medicinal cannabis reform.

    However, holding the referendum at the next election would help encourage more Green supporters to come out and vote on the day, thus bringing it forward may not be so beneficial for them (the Greens).

  7. DB 7
    24 May 2018 at 10:24 am

    If any journalists want a decent story about corrupt cowboys feeding at the government trough while victimising vulnerable people…

    Spencer & Henshaw. Govt contracted for HNZ work.

    e.g. 1. Five visits to fit one sliding bolt.

    e.g. 2. Four visits to replace one window pane.

    e.g. 3. Trying to fight me (physically) when I complained they’d cut the internet line.

    e.g. 4. Turning up unannounced anytime and wandering around the place even if you are not home.

    e.g. 5. Inspectors to check the inspectors been. Then, inspectors of inspector inspectors. I shit you not.

    e.g. 6. Drainage laid without protective layering over pipes, just concrete and fill straight on top of PVC. Regulations – who needs them?

    e.g. 7. Demolishing my chicken coop with a digger while the chickens were still in it.

    Need I go on? I am only one person. I can’t begin to imagine the extent their double/triple/quadruple billing has on HNZ’s bottom line. Or the psychological damage their bullying entitled strutting round and standing over vulnerable clientele has done.

    Don’t feel safe in my own home. Anytime, anywhere, those fuckers could turn up.

    Yesterday they arrived unannounced with a 3 ton digger to pull up my driveway. Why? Because months ago I pointed out a path they’d broken. So instead of fixing 2-3 square metres, they had turned it into a major job. Not happening.

    Another time I needed a seal on the toilet, a piece of rubber. The contractor told me he’d give me a whole new bathroom, he just needed me to say I wanted it…

    I gave that clown the short shift as well.

    These people are the worst. Start digging, it’s journalistic gold.

    • spc 7.1
      24 May 2018 at 11:46 am

      And then Fletchers deal to do housing work for EQC with no accountability … (to be fair EQC had the work done without funding upgrade of the dodgy foundations which meant no sensible builder would get involved otherwise).

      Which means thousands of stuffed houses needing the repair work done again (and foundations too or rinse and repeat) or demolish and compensate.

      The waste of money under National …

      PS Write to the Minister.

    • OnceWasTim 7.2
      24 May 2018 at 12:12 pm

      They would have been wearing fluro vests though wouldn’t they @ DB?
      That’s the signal that they’re qualified and ticketed and risk-managed and legitimate apparently.
      The Inspector Inspectors needed to come to determine the risk involved and potential claims going forward.
      /sarc
      They probably needed a 3 ton digger as well so that if necessary, they’d have to call on the resources of a ticketed STMS traffic operator whilst the road was blocked (for more than 3 minutes) whilst it was unloaded.
      It’s all apparently so much more efficient and effective

      • OnceWasTim 7.2.1
        24 May 2018 at 12:48 pm

        Ekshully @DB – you bloody ingrate!
        All they were trying to do probably was to provide you with some “wrap-around” services going forward!!!!, and here you are criticising them for having your best interests at heart. Besides…what the fuck do you know?
        You quite obviously just don’t understand the basics in ditch digging, drainage, or animal welfare! Don’t you see the battles some of these contractors face?
        What’s wrong with you man?!!!!!

        (/sarc)

        Why don’t you think positive?
        I just walked between Mt Victoria and the Central City in Wellington.
        On the way there, I actually witnessed some munter with a couple of 4 x 2s sticking half a mile out the front and back of his vehicle whilst parked and dealing with his cellphone. Surprisingly, the police car that almost got collected by the extruding 4x2s saw fit to go back, and politely suggest to the cellphone ingrossed driver that he might put a warning on the end of the obstruction poking out his rear end.
        On the way back, I first encountered 2 fire appliances attending a medical incident instead of a Wellington Free Ambulance – because presumably, they were the closest to the scene (next door…..extept one appliance had ‘Thorndon’ and the other ‘Karori’ on it)
        Let’s just be grateful we have ‘joined up services’ going forward. They can wrap it all around us.
        Then, as I proceeded up Marjoribanks Street, contrators were working on providing a water to a new ‘sexy’ apartment and shopping complex.
        Orange cones, fluro vests were all out in force.
        Ciip go the shears boys (and token gal), clip clip clip.
        /sarc
        The problem was that the STMS bodies were utterly non-compliant. They could well have been the same actors I’d seen during the previous week equipped with clip board and accompanying fluro-vested person, peering through car windows at 2am in the morning to see whether there was anything worth niking.
        (actually, there must have been because there’s a resident’s car in Hood Street with a busted quarterlight)

        Think positive @ DB. It’s so good to know we now have ‘joined up’ and ‘wrap around’ services, and out-sourced private contractors who’re so willing to pitch in to provide a 3rd world civil sussoighty (going forward)

        • Rosemary McDonald 7.2.1.1
          24 May 2018 at 1:57 pm

          “All they were trying to do probably was to provide you with some “wrap-around” services going forward!!!”

          You went to their website didn’t you? Eh? Eh?

          http://www.spencerhenshaw.co.nz/overview.php

          • DB 7.2.1.1.1
            24 May 2018 at 4:37 pm

            “prides itself on family-based values and roots.”

            Just had another contractor here to do the boxing. Insisting the driveway needed to be lifted as part and parcel of replacing some broken pathway. I tried to engage him to look at the actual driveway he kept trying to show me a bic pen drawing (the plan!) of what was happening…

            They really want to use their big digger I am not into it. I said why not just take out the broken path and replace that. No worries, I’ve got no problem with that. Yep, says he. Did he hear me?

            No, he’s on the phone ordering the digger… I said no! It’s busted pieces, you can lift it out with a spade like I have down the back. He said – get this – it’s manual labor – they won’t do it. He looked horrified at the thought of lifting some shit. Younger than me, bigger than me… 1/2 hours work tops for two of them. Amazing.

            They can’t pick up some pieces of concrete and carry them 20 metres tops. I laughed in his face I couldn’t help it. I’ll put it up top of the drive myself.

            He was passive-aggressive, then patronising, then agressive, and then threatening that nothing will get done. And I now full of adrenaline and angst from another ignorant unannounced wanker trying to dictate stupidity to me.

            “We won’t leave you with a mess some fellas will arrive with topsoil”

            “You smashed the path two years ago”

            That shut him up.

            • Rosemary McDonald 7.2.1.1.1.1
              24 May 2018 at 5:32 pm

              DB. I am not at all surprised

              I have actual emails from bureaucrats bullshitting and making the most awesomely stupid recommendations as to who best to provide contingency care to a person with very high disability support needs.

              Point out the bs and point out the inappropriate advice and bugger me there’s no shame and plenty more where that came from.

              And yes, this is the manager of an organization contracted to the Gummint to provide disability supports.

              And yes…we did make a complaint…foolish us thinking we had all this clear evidence of complete and utter fuckwittery…and him and his boss and his boss’s boss managed to turn the fault around on to us.

              Take the complaint Higher??? What’s the point…its a closed and incestuous system where one is never sure who is up whom and who’s paying.

              But, I’d love to see some journo pick this up….try Kirsty Johnston from the herald….she is more than capable of in depth work.

              And good luck to you sir.

  8. SPC 8
    24 May 2018 at 11:20 am

    You can get some idea of the approach that National Party directed spin is taking by this post (which inform the “white Russian” army of operatives around media)

    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/05/more_welfare_for_the_wealthy.html

    First the liar and deciever (mischief maker) conflates a person with good income (but has yet to own a home) with someone who is wealthy (one already having asset wealth).

    And second attacks Labour if it does not limit sales of Kiwi Build homes to those on low incomes – as if Labour is siding with the enemy (those on higher incomes if it sells these homes to them).

    This indicates a fear of Labours strategy improving the supply of homes and easing the value of proeprty.

    If Labour had restricted sales to first home buyers on low incomes – there would be a lack of buyers, slow sales and thus limited growth in supply of new homes (each sale finances further building).

    1. Those on good incomes saving to buy will not have to compete with investors or current property owners in buying a Kiwi Build home.
    2. Those on lower incomes can still buy into property via doer uppers or flats (at some point Kiwi Build could include those on low incomes upgrading from a one or two bedroom flat to a Kiwi Build family home)
    3. More state houses for those who can do none of these.

  9. greywarshark 9
    24 May 2018 at 12:50 pm

    So National says we are paying too much in aid to the Pacific Islands. Yet the Solomons Island hospital is in dire need.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/358085/expired-drugs-patients-sleeping-on-floor-at-solomons-hospital

    Looking at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade report it
    shows –
    Our aid for 2016/17 amounted to $24.1 million.
    Help through trade? It seems that we are selling them 5x plus compared to what we are buying from them.
    We sold in 2016 a large amount of sugary stuff, dairy products and some iron and steel exports $29.1 million.
    We bought in 2016 very little manufactured stuff from them (wood and wood products, coconut oil) exports $5.1 million.
    Note that our annual sales for 2016 amount to more than our whole annual aid budget. Are we just soaking up our aid and possibly leaving them with little practical benefit. Then allowing them to come and slave here doing hard low-paid seasonal work? Looks like we are good at talking the talk, but…

    MFat report says :
    The Regional Assistance Mission to Solomon Islands (RAMSI) has been a key element in the recent bilateral relationship. Around 2,000 New Zealanders from the New Zealand Defence Force, New Zealand Police, other government agencies and volunteer organisations were deployed during the 14 year mission, which concluded in June 2017.

    Today, our relationship with Solomon Islands is characterised by regular political dialogue, a strong development partnership and growing people-to-people links.

    Trade
    Aid
    Embassies
    Recent official visits

    Regional Assistance Mission to Solomon Islands (RAMSI)

    In 2003, New Zealand joined Australia and all other Pacific Islands Forum nations to help restore stability, security and prosperity to Solomon Islands. This came after a time of serious conflict and violence between ethnic groups, known as “the Tensions” (1998-2003). The Solomon Islands was experiencing widespread violence, intimidation and corruption and the government was unable to provide basic services such as education and health. This led to the Solomon Islands Government requesting its Pacific neigbours for assistance.

    Pacific foreign ministers responded by establishing the Regional Assistance Mission to Solomon Islands (RAMSI) which focused on helping Solomon Islands to restore law and order, rebuild its public service and reform economic management. In 2013 RAMSI transitioned from a combined military/police/development mission to a solely policing mission focussed on helping build the capability of the Royal Solomon Islands Police Force. The mission concluded on 30 June 2017.

    Find out more about RAMSI (external link)
    Trade
    2016 statistics

    Total trade in goods
    $34.8 million

    Exports to Solomon Islands
    $29.1 million
    Top exports: sugar and sugar cane confectionary,
    iron and steel, dairy products

    Imports from Solomon Islands
    $5.7 million
    Top imports: wood and wood products, coconut oil

    GDP
    US$1.2 billion

    GDP per capita US$2,380 (NZ GDP per capita is US$43,837)
    GDP growth 3%

    The trading relationship between New Zealand and Solomon Islands is modest, accounting for only 3% of our trade in the Pacific.

    Fisheries are an important source of income and food for Solomon Islands. We have an agreement that allows New Zealand fishing companies to enter into contracts directly with the Solomon Islands government.
    Aid

    The New Zealand Aid Programme works with Solomon Islands to achieve sustainable economic growth, improve the quality of their education and make communities safer.

    Find out more about our aid progamme in Solomon Islands

    Every year Solomon Islanders come to New Zealand to work in our horticulture and wine industries under the Recognised Seasonal Employer Scheme. Many of them come year after year, and the money they earn and send home is an important source of income for Solomon Islands.

    Find out more about the Recognised Seasonal Employer Scheme (external link)
    Embassies

    New Zealand is represented in Solomon Islands by the New Zealand High Commission, Honiara
    Solomon Islands is represented in New Zealand by the High Commission of Solomon Islands, Wellington (external link)

    Recent official visits
    New Zealand to Solomon Islands

    2017: Deptuy Prime Minister Paula Bennett led a high delegation, including New Zealand Defence Force and New Zealand Police officials, to the RAMSI drawdown celebrations.
    2017: Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully visited Solomon Islands (Minister McCully also previously visited 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015).
    2013: Prime Minister John Key led a delegation to Solomon Islands for the 10th anniversary of RAMSI
    2009: Governor-General Sir Anand Satyanand and Lady Satyanand made a state visit to Solomon Islands

    Solomon Islands to New Zealand

    2017: Minister of Foreign Affairs and External Trade Milner Tozaka visited on the invitation of the Ministry for Business, Innovation and Employment to observe the Recognised Seasonal Employer scheme. He visited later in the year to attend the 10th anniversary of the scheme.
    2016: Minister of Foreign Affairs and External Trade Milner Tozaka visited for the Pacific Trade Ministers Meeting and the signing of the revised Joint Commitment for Development with New Zealand.
    2014: Prime Minister Gordon Lilo led a delegation to New Zealand
    2013: Foreign Affairs and External Trade Minister Clay Forau visited New Zealand
    2011: Prime Minister Danny Philip came to New Zealand for the Pacific Islands Forum Leaders’ Meeting, Auckland
    https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/countries-and-regions/pacific/solomon-islands/

    • Sacha 9.1
      24 May 2018 at 1:54 pm

      Please do not copy and paste big chunks of a readily-available website. How do you think that helps a discussion?

      • Rosemary McDonald 9.1.1
        24 May 2018 at 2:02 pm

        I get why greywarshark does that. One links, and most seem unable to simply do the click thing to read what you’re trying to bring to folks’ attention. I sometimes idle under the delusion that folks read the text I put in front of them. Even spoonfeeding doesn’t work.

        All very frustrating.

      • greywarshark 9.1.2
        24 May 2018 at 2:25 pm

        Sacha
        I think it helps the discussion because it presents all the facts relevant at once. I even bolded something to show an interesting point. I put my opinions and connected them up with facts in the linked piece, and didn’t just dump it in as a big blob of stuff with no explanation. I think it is important, and it ties in with National complaining about overseas aid.

        In my judgment most people wouldn’t know the details given and I wanted to register the facts. It may not fit what you have been taught about the right way to do things and not match what the guidelines for the site give. However I should be doing something else so put all the info up and people can get the background immediately without wondering and not understanding the matter and background.

        I think that reliable factual background stuff does help discussion, though it was longer than I expected. It is an important issue and could be a post but there are so many things going on that I don’t have time to do that But because I think some things are important I put them up when i see them. And not with a one sentence remark that doesn’t supply context. Reading what passes for discussion on some of the threads, I think it is essential to get some meat between the flaky pastry.

        • McFlock 9.1.2.1
          24 May 2018 at 2:35 pm

          Frankly, I skipped over most of it.

          If I want to look into an issue, I click on links. If someone wants to make a point, their own words can usually do it more effectively and accurately than a large cut&paste.

          But if someone wants me to know that level of detail about an issue, they need to explain to me why I should be interested. Your first two sentences were fine, but I’m damned if I know why the list of recent diplomatic visits is relevant to aid to build a hospital.

        • One Two 9.1.2.2
          24 May 2018 at 7:00 pm

          No point in trying to satiate anyone…least of all those who can’t be satiated…

          There is no way to perfom any action which will meet the variables of ‘everyone’…

          As can be seen by those who called out your comment style without addressing the content…

          Keep posting the way you do GW…it was detailed and informative….

          As it was unsurprising…

          NZ is dealt to by larger states, same as NZ deals to smaller states…

          A viscious circle indeed…

          • greywarshark 9.1.2.2.1
            25 May 2018 at 9:03 pm

            Thanks those that have commented. I think that those who are interested in being informed of the wider picture, don’t have to have all the points explained. I joined up the dots enough so that the matter could be understood by such people.

            The Solomon Islands is suffering from too much talk and not enough do. When i said that we are better at talking the talk that’s what I meant. Training people in the high art of administration and modern financing is a bit of that ‘I asked you for bread and you gave me a stone’ syndrome.

        • cleangreen 9.1.2.3
          24 May 2018 at 11:21 pm

          100% greywarshark,

          We all should read the link information properly to get the facts but some who make it their job to disrupt use false narratives instead and we often will see this so I perfer when smeone wants to make a poijnt they are best served by presenting all the words backing those points but soe dont agree.

          We cant please everyone it seems.

          keep up the good work, much appreciated.

        • Sacha 9.1.2.4
          25 May 2018 at 12:19 am

          I could say something about the role of linking in online discussion but hey let me paste a chunk of the wikipedia article instead because I do not trust people to click on a link or to not sneakily edit what’s on the page being linked to. I think it helps the discussion because it presents all the facts relevant at once. Bonus points for reading this on a phone. However I should be doing something else so put all the info up and people can get the background immediately without wondering and not understanding the matter and background. My comfort is more important that everyone else’s experience, after all. You should see how I drive.

          A link from one domain to another is said to be outbound from its source anchor and inbound to its target. The most common destination anchor is a URL used in the World Wide Web. This can refer to a document, e.g. a webpage, or other resource, or to a position in a webpage. The latter is achieved by means of an HTML element with a “name” or “id” attribute at that position of the HTML document. The URL of the position is the URL of the webpage with a fragment identifier — “#id attribute” — appended.

          When linking to PDF documents from an HTML page the “id attribute” can be replaced with syntax that references a page number or another element of the PDF, for example, “#page=386”.
          Link behavior in web browsers

          A web browser usually displays a hyperlink in some distinguishing way, e.g. in a different color, font or style. The behavior and style of links can be specified using the Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) language.

          In a graphical user interface, the appearance of a mouse cursor may change into a hand motif to indicate a link. In most graphical web browsers, links are displayed in underlined blue text when they have not been visited, but underlined purple text when they have. When the user activates the link (e.g., by clicking on it with the mouse) the browser displays the link’s target. If the target is not an HTML file, depending on the file type and on the browser and its plugins, another program may be activated to open the file.

          The HTML code contains some or all of the five main characteristics of a link:

          link destination (“href” pointing to a URL)
          link label
          link title
          link target
          link class or link id

          It uses the HTML element “a” with the attribute “href” (HREF is an abbreviation for “Hypertext REFerence”[6]) and optionally also the attributes “title”, “target”, and “class” or “id”:

          link label

          To embed a link into a web page, blogpost, or comment, it may take this form:

          Example

          In a typical web browser, this would display as the underlined word “Example” in blue, which when clicked would take the user to the example.com website. This contributes to a clean, easy to read text or document.

          When the cursor hovers over a link, depending on the browser and graphical user interface, some informative text about the link can be shown, popping up, not in a regular window, but in a special hover box, which disappears when the cursor is moved away (sometimes it disappears anyway after a few seconds, and reappears when the cursor is moved away and back). Mozilla Firefox, IE, Opera, and many other web browsers all show the URL. In addition, the URL is commonly shown in the status bar.

          Normally, a link opens in the current frame or window, but sites that use frames and multiple windows for navigation can add a special “target” attribute to specify where the link loads. If no window exists with that name, a new window is created with the ID, which can be used to refer to the window later in the browsing session.

          Creation of new windows is probably the most common use of the “target” attribute. To prevent accidental reuse of a window, the special window names “_blank” and “_new” are usually available, and always cause a new window to be created. It is especially common to see this type of link when one large website links to an external page. The intention in that case is to ensure that the person browsing is aware that there is no endorsement of the site being linked to by the site that was linked from. However, the attribute is sometimes overused and can sometimes cause many windows to be created even while browsing a single site.

          Another special page name is “_top”, which causes any frames in the current window to be cleared away so that browsing can continue in the full window.

          History
          Douglas Engelbart and his team at SRI, 1969

          The term “hyperlink” was coined in 1965 (or possibly 1964) by Ted Nelson at the start of Project Xanadu. Nelson had been inspired by “As We May Think”, a popular 1945 essay by Vannevar Bush. In the essay, Bush described a microfilm-based machine (the Memex) in which one could link any two pages of information into a “trail” of related information, and then scroll back and forth among pages in a trail as if they were on a single microfilm reel.

          In a series of books and articles published from 1964 through 1980, Nelson transposed Bush’s concept of automated cross-referencing into the computer context, made it applicable to specific text strings rather than whole pages, generalized it from a local desk-sized machine to a theoretical proprietary worldwide computer network, and advocated the creation of such a network. Though Nelson’s Xanadu Corporation was eventually funded by Autodesk in the 1980s, it never created this proprietary public-access network. Meanwhile, working independently, a team led by Douglas Engelbart (with Jeff Rulifson as chief programmer) was the first to implement the hyperlink concept for scrolling within a single document (1966), and soon after for connecting between paragraphs within separate documents (1968), with NLS. Ben Shneiderman working with graduate student Dan Ostroff designed and implemented the highlighted link in the HyperTIES system in 1983. HyperTIES was used to produce the world’s first electronic journal, the July 1988 Communications of ACM, which was cited as the source for the link concept in Tim Berners-Lee’s Spring 1989 manifesto for the Web. In 1988, Ben Shneiderman and Greg Kearsley used HyperTIES to publish “Hypertext Hands-On!”, the world’s first electronic book.

          A database program HyperCard was released in 1987 for the Apple Macintosh that allowed hyperlinking between various pages within a document. In 1990, Windows Help, which was introduced with Microsoft Windows 3.0, had widespread use of hyperlinks to link different pages in a single help file together; in addition, it had a visually different kind of hyperlink that caused a popup help message to appear when clicked, usually to give definitions of terms introduced on the help page. The first widely used open protocol that included hyperlinks from any Internet site to any other Internet site was the Gopher protocol from 1991. It was soon eclipsed by HTML after the 1993 release of the Mosaic browser (which could handle Gopher links as well as HTML links). HTML’s advantage was the ability to mix graphics, text, and hyperlinks, unlike Gopher, which just had menu-structured text and hyperlinks.
          Legal issues
          Main article: Copyright aspects of hyperlinking and framing

          While hyperlinking among webpages is an intrinsic feature of the web, some websites object to being linked by other websites; some have claimed that linking to them is not allowed without permission.

          Contentious in particular are deep links, which do not point to a site’s home page or other entry point designated by the site owner, but to content elsewhere, allowing the user to bypass the site’s own designated flow, and inline links, which incorporate the content in question into the pages of the linking site, making it seem part of the linking site’s own content unless an explicit attribution is added.[7]

          In certain jurisdictions it is or has been held that hyperlinks are not merely references or citations, but are devices for copying web pages. In the Netherlands, Karin Spaink was initially convicted in this way of copyright infringement by linking, although this ruling was overturned in 2003. The courts that advocate this view see the mere publication of a hyperlink that connects to illegal material to be an illegal act in itself, regardless of whether referencing illegal material is illegal. In 2004, Josephine Ho was acquitted of ‘hyperlinks that corrupt traditional values’ in Taiwan.[8]

          In 2000, British Telecom sued Prodigy, claiming that Prodigy infringed its patent (U.S. Patent 4,873,662) on web hyperlinks. After litigation, a court found for Prodigy, ruling that British Telecom’s patent did not cover web hyperlinks.[9]

          In United States jurisprudence, there is a distinction between the mere act of linking to someone else’s website, and linking to content that is illegal (e.g., gambling illegal in the US) or infringing (e.g., illegal MP3 copies).[10] Several courts have found that merely linking to someone else’s website, even if by bypassing commercial advertising, is not copyright or trademark infringement, regardless of how much someone else might object.[11][12][13] Linking to illegal or infringing content can be sufficiently problematic to give rise to legal liability.[14][15][16]Compare [17] For a summary of the current status of US copyright law as to hyperlinking, see the discussion regarding the Arriba Soft and Perfect 10 cases.

          Somewhat controversially, Vuestar Technologies has tried to enforce patents applied for by its owner, Ronald Neville Langford,[18] around the world relating to search techniques using hyperlinked images to other websites or web pages.[19]

          • greywarshark 9.1.2.4.1
            25 May 2018 at 8:53 pm

            Thanks Sacha I will copy that and put in my Notes for later study. Of course this is instructional about procedural and technical matters and mine was informative about political matters.

            But there will be lots to learn from yours beyond the first impression and presume that you weren’t inferring the two lengthy report were the same..

    • Gosman 9.2
      24 May 2018 at 3:01 pm

      People in NZ sell them things they want or need. Whether we buy stuff from them in return is irrelevant. If they want to even up the trade then they should attempt to sell NZers stuff we want or need.

    • Gosman 10.1
      24 May 2018 at 2:12 pm

      Isn’t there an inquiry underway on this topic?

    • james 10.2
      24 May 2018 at 2:15 pm

      “Can we arrest Key yet?”

      Nope – and it will never happen.

      • McFlock 10.2.1
        24 May 2018 at 2:36 pm

        Very true. But the questions “Ideally, should Key be arrested?” is more interesting, anyway.

        • Gosman 10.2.1.1
          24 May 2018 at 2:41 pm

          Would you want the entire top hierarchy of the NZDF arrested as well?

          • McFlock 10.2.1.1.1
            24 May 2018 at 2:53 pm

            Oh, I just meant in general. In this instance I have no opinion either way, but the NZDF’s history of coverups and withholding evidence mean I wouldn’t be at all surprised.

            • Gosman 10.2.1.1.1.1
              24 May 2018 at 2:59 pm

              Unless you have evidence of a gross abuse of human rights or a deliberate effort to undertake a known criminal activity arresting Politicians for what occurred on their watch would not be a good thing. For a start ALL Politicians could be charged with some sort of negative consequence as they are essentially unavoidable.

              • McFlock …
                24 May 2018 at 3:07 pm

                Interesting idea – a bit like the old mandatory court martial after a ship is lost, regardless of circumstance.

                Upon leaving parliament, every minister is mandatorily investigated for prima facie evidence of treason, corruption, war crimes, and crimes of torture. Say a six month submission period, and only after the investigators’ reports are delivered will the retiring parliamentarian have the possibility of a public honour.

                • Gosman …
                  24 May 2018 at 3:23 pm

                  That is not really a new idea. In fact it was the threat of being prosecuted for supposed crimes committed while in Office once he gave up his governorship of Gaul that led to Julius Caesar to cross the Rubicon and eventually to the end of the Roman Republic.

                  • Barfly …
                    24 May 2018 at 3:36 pm

                    I guess you are older than I thought being a confidante to Caeser and all. – So it wasn’t narcissism and ambition after all who’d have thought that?

                  • McFlock …
                    24 May 2018 at 3:42 pm

                    that escaleted quickly.

                    Lucky we separate our ministers from direct generalship then, ain’t it.

                  • adam …
                    24 May 2018 at 5:16 pm

                    No wonder you’re a libertarian, with such simplistic views of the fall of the roman republic, you’d need the most lightweight of ideologies to cling too.

                    • In Vino …
                      24 May 2018 at 6:36 pm

                      I suspect that Goosey thought nobody here on the Left would know enough about Julius Caesar, the Roman Republic and Empire to question his brilliant, most erudite thrust…

                      As an aside, Gosman, I would ask how people can have the evidence to launch prosecutions when the NZDF lie like flatfish and bury the said evidence?
                      Or are you willing to admit that Hager and Stephenson did a damned good job?

          • Draco T Bastard 10.2.1.1.2
            24 May 2018 at 10:10 pm

            If they committed a crime – yes.

      • cleangreen 10.2.2
        24 May 2018 at 11:24 pm

        Why? oh because he has to much of our money now I suppose, it’s always the rich that can dodge the law and the courts of course silly me.

  11. Gosman 11
    24 May 2018 at 2:27 pm

    Nice to see many lefties on the Guardian opposing the abomination that is Venezuelan Socialism.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/23/venezuela-dictator-democracy-nicolas-maduro-venezuelans

    • David Mac 11.1
      24 May 2018 at 2:45 pm

      It’s not political persausion, it’s human nature at it’s worst. It’s our attitude, not who we vote for. It’s people abusing the power and authority their position makes available. They come wearing the tie-pins of all political parties.

      Ghandi was a socialist too, he cared little for castles and trinkets. He had a cool attitude.

      • Gosman 11.1.1
        24 May 2018 at 2:55 pm

        Except he was a racist

        • David Mac 11.1.1.1
          24 May 2018 at 3:04 pm

          I got the feeling he was dirty on the actions of people, not their origins. I think we would of got the same Ghandi regardless of who was his nemesis.

          This is a walk with a strawman. My point is that Venezuela is not failing because it’s being led by a Socialist, it’s failing because it’s being led by an arsehole and they come in all stripes.

          • aj 11.1.1.1.1
            24 May 2018 at 3:27 pm

            Venezuela is failing because of sanctions and the election was people standing up to sanctions despite the hurt they are causing.

            • David Mac 11.1.1.1.1.1
              24 May 2018 at 3:42 pm

              Yeah, I think it’s a contributing factor but I can’t get over the pile of anointed greedy people clipping the ticket.

              There is a large market for Venezaula’s oil. Many of their woes are by way of a previously plummeting oil price. The price of crude has doubled in the last 12 months. This should be reflected in the standard of living in Venezuela. It just ain’t.

              • Gosman …
                24 May 2018 at 3:58 pm

                It is always sanctions and never the policies of the government that causes the hardships. Amazing the power other nations have over countries following Socialist policies. Pity the Socialists never can work out how to avoid the impact of these sanctions.

                • adam …
                  24 May 2018 at 5:19 pm

                  Your mates in Argentina, what about them Gossy? Same sort of disaster is befalling that nation as well. And they all of your ilk.

                  Maybe you might want to grow up and look at the broader economic issues of the failure of capitalism on a global scale. But you can only do partisan hack, so it might be a bit too much to ask.

                • David Mac …
                  24 May 2018 at 6:19 pm

                  I don’t think it is the policies Gosman. Socialism by nature is about all boats rising. As is too often the case, those in a position to have a 100m boat do so, to the detriment of those with holes in their dinghies.

                  As pointed out by Adam, the wheels are falling off in Argentina. This is not because of the left or right influence in their government, it’s greedy buggers surfing a rort.

          • Gabby 11.1.1.1.2
            25 May 2018 at 12:20 am

            Bit of a dirty ol man too davey.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.2
      24 May 2018 at 3:49 pm

      In all of that I didn’t see any evidence for what it claimed.

      • Gosman 11.2.1
        24 May 2018 at 4:04 pm

        Were you quite happy with the recent elections in Venezuela Draco?

        • adam 11.2.1.1
          24 May 2018 at 5:21 pm

          Do the match the exit polls?

          If so then, more than happy. You know they had independant moderation ah Gossy.

          Or are you going to tell more lies? Like you one you told about the toilet paper crisis?

        • Draco T Bastard 11.2.1.2
          24 May 2018 at 10:13 pm

          Yes.

          As I said – there’s no evidence given regarding the election. Just large swathes of make believe.

  12. Gosman 12
    24 May 2018 at 2:40 pm

    Has Bill changed his mind about the Bolivarian Revolution ?

    https://thestandard.org.nz/meanwhile-in-some-good-news/

  13. greywarshark 13
    24 May 2018 at 3:37 pm

    Was anyone else unable to get through to The Standard yesterday (Wedn) from lunchtime to dinner?

    • McFlock 13.1
      24 May 2018 at 3:43 pm

      not me

    • Daveosaurus 13.2
      24 May 2018 at 5:31 pm

      Yes, it looks like it was completely down from a bit after 10 am until late – see yesterday’s Open Mike and all the comments that aren’t there.

      • greywarshark 13.2.1
        24 May 2018 at 8:27 pm

        Thanks Daveosaurus
        I’ve just updated my Firefox so don’t know if that was cause.
        Though McFlock said it was okay.
        Lprent just a heads up if you’re watching.

        • Daveosaurus 13.2.1.1
          24 May 2018 at 10:49 pm

          Mickysavage at 2.4 says it was server problems.

        • McFlock 13.2.1.2
          24 May 2018 at 10:56 pm

          my bad. Must have been multitasking and should have affirmed the negative lol.
          I couldn’t get in either. Sorry about the completely incorrect response.

    • cleangreen 13.3
      24 May 2018 at 11:32 pm

      greywarshark,

      Yes we were all down for all day until late in the night it was still down.

      I waited till early today to see it back see me on 2 welcome TS back.

  14. DB 14
    24 May 2018 at 5:15 pm

    Just wondering if Standard readers have heard of Jordan Peterson?

    Lefties abroad have labelled him all sorts of nasty things and protest his talks. I was intrigued by the hullabaloo created around this guy so went and listened to the man himself (loads on youtube). He’s an extremely intelligent, reasonable man, and he’s changing aimless young men’s lives for the better. The protesters on the other hand… largely idiots.

    There’s an awful lot the left could learn from this man but the blanket hate for all things right denies opportunity for proper discourse with intellects of such caliber.

    I was pleased to find this article, as it seems I’m not the only leftie closet Peterson fan:

    http://quillette.com/2018/05/22/jordan-peterson-failure-left/

    Discussion would be great. Shrill nonsense would be expected on facebook and other low quality rags… 😀

    • millsy 14.1
      24 May 2018 at 9:34 pm

      Jordan Peterson.

      Opposes abortion, homosexuality, and non-nuclear family kinship structures. Thinks that people having sex outside of marriage should be lined up against a wall and shot. Etc.

      • DB 14.1.1
        24 May 2018 at 10:08 pm

        What a ridiculous statement. He doesn’t oppose any of those things. And you also know what he thinks, etc?

        It is obvious you know nothing about his work.

        You are the reason people left the left in droves.

        • greywarshark 14.1.1.1
          25 May 2018 at 9:08 pm

          It’s so comforting to have you around DB. Everything is wobbly in this uncertain world, but you remain stalwart in your views.

    • Incognito 14.2
      26 May 2018 at 10:53 am

      I feel ambivalent about Jordan Peterson, who’s undoubtedly intelligent, provocative, and stimulating.

      If you’re interested in a counter view: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve

  15. Jenny 15
    24 May 2018 at 9:05 pm

    Related?

    “Eight dead sperm whales found on Taranaki Beach”
    Newshub – 24 May, 2018

    DoC says it is planning its next steps, and will try to have a veterinary pathologist investigate why the whales stranded and died.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/05/eight-dead-sperm-whales-found-on-taranaki-beach.html

    A flurry of oil and gas exploration is set to be unleashed in Taranaki during the next 18 to 36 months as companies make decisions on whether to ‘drill or drop’ existing permits.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/104024959/rise-in-oil-and-gas-exploration-activity-in-taranaki-by-early-2019

    There are 31 oil and gas exploration permits currently active, 22 are offshore. These permits cover an area of 100,000 square kilometers, nearly the size of the North Island, and run as far out as 2030 and could go an additional 40 years under a mining permit.

    https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/new-zealand-says-no-to-new-offshore-permits#gs.QssfB=s

    I suppose we will find out when the veterinarian pathologist releases their report.

    And whether or not there are signs of inner ear bleeding.

    Oil and gas companies use seismic airgun blasting to find oil and gas deposits, creating one of the loudest human-made noises in the ocean.

    According to government estimates, as many as 138,000 whales and dolphins along the East Coast from Delaware to Florida could soon be injured or possibly killed if seismic blasting is allowed…..

    …..The loud and powerful blasts from seismic testing could cause temporary and permanent hearing loss in dolphins and whales. After seismic testing occurred near Peru, about 900 long-beaked common dolphins and black porpoises washed up dead along a stretch of beach. Upon examination, the dolphins were discovered to have had fractures in their ear bones and signs of bleeding from their middle ears.

    https://www.livescience.com/51135-7-marine-animals-that-would-suffer-from-new-seismic-blasting.html

    • cleangreen 15.1
      24 May 2018 at 11:38 pm

      Jenny;

      Thanks for that

      Yes we believe the sinsmic sooms cause disruption to the whales senory sysrtems as all manals use electricity as it signals the brain and tisues.

      Has the Amazon Warroir returned?

      Greenpeace should be alerted to this by now?

      this is so sad.

      • Jenny 15.1.1
        25 May 2018 at 12:37 am

        Greenpeace can’t do anything because they have been held over by the courts until their sentencing for breaching the Anadarko Amendment.

        MBIE demanded that this prohibition against protest be given by the judge. And despite voicing some reservation the judge complied.

        Under the Anadarko Amendment to the Crown Minerals Act it is illegal to protest or get within 500 metres of an oil prospecting vessel.

        At the height of the Springbok Tour protests not even Muldoon could not bring himself to make it illegal to protest, or get within 500 metres of a football stadium.

        It is quite likely that as a condition of their sentencing, Greenpeace will be held over indefinitely from protesting against deep sea oil exploration.

        Russel Norman Director of Greenpeace Aotearoa, has called the Anadarko Amendment “repugnant”.

        Green MP Gareth Hughes has said this law is “egregious”

        The late Peter Williams QC, arguably the greatest lawyer this country has ever produced, described the Anadarko Amendment as “undemocratic…. and anti-New Zealand”

        Greenpeace had faced fines of up to $200,000 under the 2013 controversial “Anadarko Amendement” in the Crown Minerals Act, which made it an offence to interfere with oil exploration ships at sea.

        It was the first time anyone has been charged with the crime.

        Appearing via video link from Auckland, Mr Norman and Ms Howell pleaded guilty and were remanded on bail, on the condition that they must not offend again against the Crown Minerals Act.

        Judge Geoff Rae questioned whether that was necessary but the lawyer acting for MBIE, Cameron Stuart, argued it was given there were current protests over offshore oil exploration in Taranaki.

        https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/356256/russel-norman-pleads-guilty-over-oil-protest

        “Repugnant”, “egregious” and “anti-New Zealand”

        in one word, ‘Brutal..’

  16. eco maori 16
    25 May 2018 at 6:50 am

    Good morning The AM Show Phil Twyford your a good man just count to 3 nobody is perfect Ka pai e hoa.
    Condolences to Kingi Taurua Whano he was a good man.
    Gary Mc Mcormick is a cool old school Kiwi from Te tairawhiti I remember the days when people did not judge you because of your skin colour they judged you on your actions that’s the man Gary is as is Phil.
    The thing about Morgan Freeman is he has admitted to his problem of sexual harassment so he will change his ways if one is in denial that person will not change.
    Its good that Jacinda stepped up the intensity on the control of that bovine virus if some cows that appear healthy have to be put down that’s the price we have to pay. As I understand it the virus is only visible to the eye when the animal health is under stress which is while calveing by then calfs could be truck off any were. Dairy is a big part of our economy so we cannot muck around with this. But we need to have more kite to spread our eggs around no.
    Ka kite ano.

  17. eco maori 17
    25 May 2018 at 7:07 am

    Newshub I have just started researching my Maori heritage and taking a interest in politics ECO MAORI does not know much about Kingi Ka pai. Ka kite ano. P.S off to mahi

  18. eco maori 18
    25 May 2018 at 7:14 am

    The AM Show its good to see William Jackson on the Show Ka pai Whano

  19. eco maori 19
    25 May 2018 at 7:01 pm

    Te sandflys are playing with themselves again the – – – – – – haaaaaaaasassaaa here some music so they know that ECO MAORI is— link

    https://youtu.be/ktvTqknDobU

  20. eco maori 20
    25 May 2018 at 9:39 pm

    This is for te pain in the ASS.link

    https://youtu.be/M66U_DuMCS8

    https://youtu.be/fKopy74weus

    Ka kite ano

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