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Open mike 24/12/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 24th, 2021 - 68 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

68 comments on “Open mike 24/12/2021 ”

  1. Sanctuary 2

    I hate Pukekos, bloody nasty little birds if you ask me. I remember one dark, dank, and foggy late winter or early spring morning at the Unitec campus happening upon a mother duck desperately guarding her posse of a dozen or so ducklings and trying to fight off the depredations of 3-4 Pukekos who were attempting to pick off her ducklings; I immediately dismounted my bike, armed myself with some stones and after scoring a direct hit on the most aggressive Pukeko mother duck and I escorted her fluffy charges safely to the waters edge.

    Not today, not on my watch you shi*t head Pukekos!!

    I was also 45 minutes late for work, but nobody minded when I informed them of the nobility of my mission.

    • Dennis Frank 2.1

      Tut tut! Nonviolent diplomacy ought to be tried first. You could have just told the aussie invaders to go back home. sad

      • Sanctuary 2.1.1

        Sometimes, violence IS the answer.

        • Gezza

          Yes, sadly some – particularly male – pukekos will kill ducklings. I managed to talk Bluey out of doing so once by yelling out “Bluey! No!” when he was about to go after a lone duckling caught up in a fast flowing section of the stream & drifting downstream. He stopped immediately (to my surprise & gratitude) & went back to foraging for grass seeds & roots.

          My last Pook Family learned the meaning of “No!” when I had to teach them that trimming the grass on my back lawn was ok, but pulling it out to eat the roots was NOT. I achieved that by yelling “No! No pulling out grass!” & dashing up to them going apeshit until they figured it out.

          Some mallard drakes will attack & kill pooklets too. Instinct I guess. They must “know” they represent a future threat to their ducklings.

          Nature’s pretty raw sometimes. But look at the horrendous things some human apes do to other human apes & to other creatures. They’re the worst because they should know better.

    • Macro 2.2

      And they stole almost every persimmon I ever grew before they were even half ripe. Pulled out every oi oi from the wetlands I planted and ever other wet land species. Subsequently found out that I could get a special licence to shoot them. But by then it was too late.

  2. Dennis Frank 3

    David Williams, Newsroom's environment editor, South Island correspondent & investigative journalist, does a forensic analysis of how bureaucrats turn science into mush: https://www.newsroom.co.nz/emails-expose-councils-clash-with-scientist

    A senior scientist withdrew from a river project when bosses signalled they wanted contentious findings removed.

    Following a steering group meeting in November last year, Environment Canterbury senior hydrological scientist Wilco Terink circulated the executive summary and conclusions of a report on the Rakaia River he’d been working on for two-and-a-half-years. “Although it is still a draft (need to implement the reviewer’s comments), I do not think the conclusions will change significantly,” he wrote.

    You can imagine the horror of bureaucrats when receiving this. Scientists expecting a job to be done properly are like vermin. They must be eradicated!

    The intrepid reporter exposes how the bureaucrats went about the process of achieving eradication, in the guise of a search for consensus.

    These internal emails, and others released to Newsroom under the Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act (LGOIMA), paint a picture of a snowballing situation which led to Terink clashing with managers, and the report’s main conclusions being hidden from the public.

    Well of course. No point hiring bureaucrats unless they hide scientific discoveries from the public!

    Terink left ECan earlier this year. Approached for comment for this story, the scientist – contacted at his new consultancy Q-Hydrology – said he was forbidden from disclosing information about the project. Davie declared that in a letter delivered to Terink on his final day.

    I presume there was a clause in his employment contract that was designed to authorise the bureaucrats to impose secrecy to prevent the public learning about the scientist's discoveries. It's how National & Labour have operated most of my life since I first noticed their behavioural pattern half a century ago. They cite a principle of transparent governance to deceive the public, while ensuring bureaucrats ignore it.

    • francesca 3.1


      Once again consensus by bureaucrats rather than hard and fast science, and consensus reached for the purpose of public messaging

      Reminds of the OPCW farce

  3. Pete 4

    Murupara is in the news.

    Doctor challenges seizure of ivermectin, the unapproved Covid-19 drug he imported for patients


    Covid 19 coronavirus Delta outbreak: Two cases in Murupara


    Another man in the news today should go to Murupara and chat with the locals.

    "Having the virus felt "suffocating", as if he had a tonne of bricks on his chest.

    "It's like trying to breathe through a straw while drowning," he said.


    • millsy 4.1

      Let's face it, most GP's out in rural areas arent exactly the best and brightest of the medical profession.

      Anyway, enjoy your holidays, Standard-posters and look forward to reading more of your thoughts in 2022. Even if they are getting more and more right wing and transphobic.

      That Ad needs to stand for office though.

      • Matiri 4.1.1

        I have to disagree Millsy! Our GP and Nurse Practitioner are a fantastic asset to our rural community, always smiling, approachable and quick to refer on to a specialist if needed. We were one of the first small communities to hold vaccination clinics for all back in May. We are very lucky to have them.

      • RedLogix 4.1.2

        Let's face it, most GP's out in rural areas arent exactly the best and brightest of the medical profession.

        Quite the contrary – in my experience medical care in our smaller provincial towns is very good. Often the GP's are people who prefer working where they have a bit more autonomy and the opportunity to get to know their patients better.

        Their biggest problem is often they’re overloaded and struggle to find locums to cover for when they need a break.

      • bwaghorn 4.1.3

        He was my dr for a time ,I recall him being good,

        Although I was yakking to a gp the other day and he said rural drs always are one of the three m's, mercenary, mad or messiahs. I'm picking conlin might be a touch of the last 2.

    • RedLogix 4.2

      From that Stuff article:

      The drug is used to de-worm livestock and to treat a very limited number of parasitic diseases in humans, but the Ministry of Health has warned it could cause serious harm if used to treat or prevent Covid-19.

      Whether IVM works or not is irrelevant to the point – telling us that it's a horse de-wormer and very dangerous for humans is a flat out lie.

      • Bill 4.2.1

        A bit like saying penicillin is used in pigs.

        I really do wish I could believe a "day of reckoning" would arrive for all these bastards that have knowingly spun false shit around off-label use of existing medication and for all those who deliberately and cynically set up studies in such a way as to fail.

        But there will just be a "sidling away" from it all, facilitated as much as anything else, by the swathes of faceless fear monkeys who won't want to face up to having been gullible chumps.

        • RedLogix

          What if it turns out there is a patent on the crucial COVID furin cleavage site dating to 2015?

          Day of reckoning do you think?

          • Bill

            Mostly I don't really care where Covid came from (whether it was engineered or of natural origin).

            I think trust in society's traditional institutions is going straight down the toilet and racing around that U bend though.

        • Rosemary McDonald

          I really do wish I could believe a "day of reckoning" would arrive for all these bastards that have knowingly spun false shit around off-label use of existing medication and for all those who deliberately and cynically set up studies in such a way as to fail.

          Glasses of ginger beer were clinked as part of an impromptu gathering of a few mates this afternoon here in Jacinda's Naughty Corner, the Far Far North. Ivermectin, and other familiar therapeutics now non grata in this weird Covid world were mentioned. Other stuff too. We have a community, already resilient. We exchange homegrown food, fish, meat and ideas.

          Oh, and interesting tidbits that pop up on the interweb.

          Despite so many other peer reviewed papers from doctors and scientists non grata being disappeared down the memory hole, this little gem persists.

          Why are we vaccinating children against COVID-19?


          This article examines issues related to COVID-19 inoculations for children. The bulk of the official COVID-19-attributed deaths per capita occur in the elderly with high comorbidities, and the COVID-19 attributed deaths per capita are negligible in children. The bulk of the normalized post-inoculation deaths also occur in the elderly with high comorbidities, while the normalized post-inoculation deaths are small, but not negligible, in children. Clinical trials for these inoculations were very short-term (a few months), had samples not representative of the total population, and for adolescents/children, had poor predictive power because of their small size. Further, the clinical trials did not address changes in biomarkers that could serve as early warning indicators of elevated predisposition to serious diseases. Most importantly, the clinical trials did not address long-term effects that, if serious, would be borne by children/adolescents for potentially decades.

          And it's in- depth, well referenced, peer reviewed, published and everything.wink


          • KJT

            Because having their parents, or grandparents sick, unable to work or care for them, or dead, is not! "detrimental to children"?

      • Drowsy M. Kram 4.2.2

        Really? This again!? Talk about undermining faith in human nature. Just awful.

        COVID-19 treatments [updated 23 December 2021]
        Not recommended for COVID-19
        The TGA has not approved, and the National COVID-19 Clinical Evidence Taskforce guidelines do not recommend, the following treatments for COVID-19.

        Ivermectin, doxycycline, zinc
        There is not enough evidence to support the safe and effective use of these drugs (separately, or in combination) to prevent or treat COVID-19.
        The Clinical Evidence Taskforce does not recommend the use of ivermectin, doxycycline or zinc outside of properly conducted clinical trials with appropriate ethical approval.

        Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent COVID-19
        When Can Taking Ivermectin Be Unsafe?
        The FDA has not authorized or approved ivermectin for the treatment or prevention of COVID-19 in people or animals. Ivermectin has not been shown to be safe or effective for these indications.

        There’s a lot of misinformation around, and you may have heard that it’s okay to take large doses of ivermectin. It is not okay.

        Even the levels of ivermectin for approved human uses can interact with other medications, like blood-thinners. You can also overdose on ivermectin, which can cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, hypotension (low blood pressure), allergic reactions (itching and hives), dizziness, ataxia (problems with balance), seizures, coma and even death.

        Coronavirus: 2 deaths linked to ivermectin in New Mexico, officials say [27 Sept. 2021]
        He added that officials saw two problems with using ivermectin to treat COVID-19.

        One, it can be toxic,” he said. “Two is that while people are pursuing – perhaps they’re at home and they have symptoms and risk factors, and they’re obtaining a veterinary ivermectin prescription and trying that to control their COVID-19, they’re missing on proven treatments from randomized clinical trials.

        Ivermectin is not an anti-viral medication. It is typically used to treat animals for parasites although smaller dosages can be prescribed for human use to treat parasitic worms, head lice or skin conditions like rosacea, according to the FDA.

        Even Trump, when laid low with COVID, didn't take ivermectin, although he did have some bright ideas about light and bleach as anti-COVID treatments.

        "A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"

        He continued.

        "And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."

        Later, Trump clarified his comments after a reporter asked Bryan whether disinfectants could actually be injected into COVID-19 patients.

        "It wouldn’t be through injections, almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work, but it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object."

        On ther other hand, Bolsonaro thinks using ivermectin as part of a COVID-19-treatment regime is a good idea – go figure.

        Brazil's Main COVID Strategy Is A Cocktail Of Unproven Drugs [15 June 2021]
        In Brazil, where more than 488,000 people have already died due to COVID-19 — second only to the United States — pseudoscience has become government policy. Bolsonaro regularly promotes repurposing unproven and cheap drugs to his nearly 40 million social media followers as he continues to minimize the gravity of the pandemic and dismiss its victims. Meanwhile, his administration has spent millions of dollars to produce, purchase and promote pills such as the lice medication ivermectin, the antimalarial chloroquine and popular antibiotic azithromycin as well as anticoagulants, painkillers and a set of vitamins. The Ministry of Health and numerous doctors endorsed using a combination of these medications to treat COVID-19, even though there is no solid evidence that it works.

        "It's not because they believe it works, but because it is a way for them to escape their responsibility for controlling the pandemic," said Jesem Orellana, a Manaus-based epidemiologist at Fiocruz Amazônia, one of 16 units of the public health research center Oswaldo Cruz Foundation. For at least a month last fall, Orellana urged local authorities to implement a lockdown.

        • RedLogix

          Ivermectin is not an anti-viral medication.

          Actually it is.

          And every time I read someone telling me how dangerous IVM is I know they are bullshitting. This is a drug that has been used for decades, with a remarkably good safety record over billions of human doses – and these bastards just lie about it.

          So anything else you might want to quote from them at effusive length is rejected as untrustworthy.

          • Drowsy M. Kram

            Ivermectin is not an anti-viral medication.

            Actually it is.

            Bullshit. From the abstract of your June 2020 "Actually it is" link.

            In vivo studies of animal models revealed a broad range of antiviral effects of ivermectin, however, clinical trials are necessary to appraise the potential efficacy of ivermectin in clinical setting.

            Ivermectin has antiviral effects – the efficacy of these antiviral effects in clinical settings, e.g. the efficacy of ivermectin as an anti-COVID-19 medication, is unknown, although the few robust trials conducted to date suggest that using ivermectin to combat COVID-19 is at best a waste of time and other resources.

            Continuing to promote ivermectin as an anti-COVID-19 treatment is irresponsible, imho. Lest we forget, in October 2020 RL asserted (of the COVID-19 pandemic) "It's over" (and that's a revealing thread, particularly with the benefit of hindsight) – at least 3 times. I doubt the reliability of many of RL's pandemic reckons, but everyone can decide for themselves.

            Ivermectin Should Not Be Recommended to Treat Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome 2 Infection
            Since these 5 systematic reviews were published, the results of a new clinical trial have been published. This trial was a well designed, double-blind, and placebo-controlled trial that enrolled 500 persons per arm. Currently, it is the second largest trial that assesses the effect of ivermectin on COVID-19 outcomes. Although it is still underpowered due to a lower percentage of events than expected, this trial did not detect a significant effect of ivermectin on preventing hospitalization nor the need for mechanical ventilatory support. The only other randomized controlled trial considered to be at a low risk for bias in all the systematic reviews also found that ivermectin had no beneficial effect on time-to-recovery (Lopez-Medina et al.) Both of these trials were peer-reviewed and published in reputable journals. All of the other trials were either much smaller, not placebo-controlled, and/or not double-blinded. Furthermore, 5 of 11 studies included are unpublished and merely posted on preprint websites.

            In conclusion, based on 4 well conducted systematic reviews and the results of the 2 best-designed clinical trials so far, we concur with most international COVID-19 guidelines that the current evidence does not support the use of ivermectin as treatment for COVID-19 infection.

            Misinformation about the efficacy of ivermectin in COVID-19 infection should be countered. A paper such as the review by Kory et al. is used by influencers and the social media to create confusion and increase the distrust of people in international evidence-based COVID-19 recommendations. What low- and middle-income countries need is more access to oxygen and COVID-19 vaccines, and not ivermectin.

            • RedLogix

              I still stand by that statement in October 2020. At that point in time we knew enough to end the original pandemic if we had acted decisively – well before all the inevitable variants arose.

              And there is indeed plenty of positive IVM clinical evidence undertaken by people who actually have to treat COVID afflicted patients that when combined using metastudies clearly show something useful is happening. My position has been that it's a remarkably safe, cheap drug that if individuals or their clinician's want to use – there should be no objection.

              Instead what we got was an irrational, blatantly idiotic fearmongering campaign from Big Pharma and it's shills like you that it was 'too dangerous' to use 'off label' for COVID. We've seen numerous serious academics have their work on this topic refused or prevented from being published, we've seen governments block it's use without any reasonable explanation.

              At the same time your reliance on a small number of failed RCT trials to rest your argument on is highly selective. As I've pointed out in the past RCT trials are only one small part of how medical research progresses and not even the most important or conclusive part.

              Levels of Evidence Pyramid

              • Drowsy M. Kram

                I still stand by that statement in October 2020.

                I don't doubt it – that's why I've taken each of your subsequent pandemic reckons with a grain of salt.

                FORGET THE MISTAKE
                REMEMBER THE LESSON

                Many people repeat the same pattern of a certain mistake a few times over before they open up their eyes to it. Unfortunately, there are others who are too stubborn to ever admit their own mistake.

                These people stop themselves from further development. It is better to face your own mistakes instead of trying to escape from them. They will never be mended that way.

                Btw – what am I a shill for (consensus expert opinion maybe?), and what might be motivating that supposed shilling?

                Whereas what motivates your shilling for ivermectin and other unproven treatments is crystal clear – "It's over." Except it wasn't over, and it ain't over, although the recent decrease in the number of tragic daily COVID-19 deaths (back to October 2020 levels) is a promising trend – I wonder if Omicron and vaccines might be having an effect.

                • RedLogix

                  Except it wasn't over, and it ain't over,

                  No. Because frankly there were too many people invested in it not being over. The moral power that COVID had gifted them was too useful to them.

                  Whereas what motivates your shilling for ivermectin and other unproven treatments is crystal clear

                  Nowhere have I stated that IVM is either proven nor should be used in preference to any other treatment. Putting words into my mouth – contemptible no?

                  • Drowsy M. Kram

                    Because frankly there were too many people invested in it not being over.

                    If, in your mind, this allows you cling to your "it’s over" fantasy, then by all means keep telling yourself that's the reason; that these "too many people" somehow controlled and continue to control how this on-going pandemic is unfolding.

                    I wish it had never happened every day, but that's not working either.

                    Putting words into my mouth – contemptible no?

                    Yep – shills are contemptible, imho. I believe you’re on record here as having purchased a stock of ivermectin.

                    • RedLogix

                      You have 30 minutes to find 3 examples of where I actively and directly recommended IVM on this site as a proven treatment for COVID. Or a retraction.

                      Just as a clue my consistent approach is typified here:

                      As I immediately stated next "Either it will be shown to work on it's own merits or not" – and as far as I'm concerned that remains an open question. Frankly I'm of the view that Ivermectin is cheap, safe and was worth trying – and even if in the long run it turns out to be useless then so what?

                  • Drowsy M. Kram

                    You have 30 minutes to find 3 examples of where I actively and directly recommended IVM on this site as a proven treatment for COVID. Or a retraction.

                    So I have 30 minutes! Firm but fair smiley

                    Happy to retract the claim that you (RL) "actively and directly recommended IVM on this site as a proven treatment for COVID", were it not for the fact that I made no such claim.

                    You know this. That you would fabricate this falsehood is as disappointing as it is unsurprising – for the record, I completely reject your inappropriate efforts to bully me by putting words in my mouth.

                    I will retract any of my quoted words that you can show are false, because I'm comfortable with admitting my mistakes. For the record, my "shilling for ivermectin" jibe was motivated by your misplaced claim (@10:09 pm) that I'm a shill for Big Pharma, and (somehow) involved in “an irrational, blatantly idiotic fearmongering campaign“. Wow!

                    Instead what we got was an irrational, blatantly idiotic fearmongering campaign from Big Pharma and it's shills like you

                    And, for the record (again), I'm well aware of some of the defects in Big Pharma's business and R&D models – even highlighted a few.

                    RL, it's my belief that your evident enthusiasm for putative anti-COVID treatments that have either not been approved or are (in the case of ivermectin) actively discouraged by drug and medicine regulatory authorities, is related to your October 2020 assertions that the pandemic was over. I might be wrong – but I have a sense that individuals who are used to getting their own way will naturally prefer to talk down the seriousness of the pandemic, and claim that vitamin D or other treatments can end the pandemic ("It's over"), because when "It's over" the public health constraints on freedom of choice and action will return to their 'normal' settings (BAU). And yes, those constraints are more challenging to some than others.

                    I believe (with a high degree of certainty) that claims the pandemic was or indeed is over are false, and (with a moderate degree of certainty) that claims ivermectin is an effective medical treatment for COVID-19 infections in humans are (according to currently available scientific evidence) also false.

                    Further (and I've said this before), I believe that such claims are at least potentially injurious to public health, in that they clearly (imho) undermine public health system efforts to protect populations from injury and/or death during the COVID-19 pandemic.

                    I regret that you find my opposition to some of your beliefs relating to the pandemic challenging, but I'll continue to do what I can (stating my beliefs), while I still can. Having said that, I'll refrain from reading your comments for the next 10 days so as to avoid the temptation to reply.

  4. Matiri 5

    Very careful and knowledgeable opinion piece in the Herald from the pathologist who performed the autopsy on the Dunedin man who died of myocarditis after being vaccinated.

    Conclusion: risk of dying from myocarditis after Covid-19 infection is 100 times higher than from myocarditis after vaccination.


    • Robert Guyton 5.1

      " Mandated counselling by vaccinators would seem appropriate. It would also seem prudent to bring back the old-fashioned method of a millisecond aspiration just before injection, to check for an intravascular position of the needle, because the mRNA vaccine caused a myocarditis event in mice injected intravascularly (instead of intramuscularly)."

      Thanks for that excellent link, Matiri.

      • Sacha 5.1.1

        Yes, I was about to post that section given recent discussions here.

        • Robert Guyton

          I was also very interested in the widespread occurrence of myocarditis resulting from all manner of conditions. I think, when people compare Covid with the flu, saying, "it's no worse", they are vastly underestimating the flu.

          • KJT

            Myocarditis is extremely common.

            So much so, that there is often difficulty in ascribing a particular cause.

            Aspirating, which we were taught to do also, seems like a simple precaution, however.

          • KJT

            Myocarditis – Wikipedia

            “While many causes of myocarditis are known, there are many cases in which a causative agent cannot be identified”.

            “In young adults, up to 20% of all cases of sudden death are due to myocarditis”.

      • McFlock 5.1.2

        From the previous discussions, the downside of aspiration is increased pain. Which makes me wonder if the non-aspiration is about lowering the pain and thereby lowering the hesitancy of folks who are afraid of needles, that sort of thing.

        Just a thought.

    • joe90 5.2

      UK heart doc on risk.


    • francesca 5.3

      Great link Matiri .

      At last!

  5. Good news about Omicron, consistent with what I have been saying on a previous thread:



    Even though Omicron is very infectious, it also seems that it burns out really quickly as well:


    So, I think we should take this opportunity to strengthen our vaccine and response readiness as much as possible. Omicron will get here soon enough, and hopefully it will be a mostly benign disease that allows us all to build up some natural immunity to more harmful Covid varieties.

  6. Stephen D 7

    Peter Davis putting it all in perspective.


    Yes, I know who he is married to, but that doesn’t discount the analysis.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 7.1

      Thanks for that link, Stephen, and amen to this:

      With Ardern’s government now in its second term, one can only hope that a successful handling of the pandemic is not its only legacy, important as that is. There is much unfinished business for a progressive party in Aotearoa New Zealand.

    • Patricia Bremner 7.2

      Peter sums it up nicely.smiley

    • alwyn 7.3

      Peter has a very selective memory of course.

      He says " Hence the re-election in 2020 of the NZLP with a majority of the popular vote—a feat only matched in the depths of the Great Depression, with the election of the first Labour government."

      In fact in 2020 the Labour Party scraped in with a majority only if you ignore the invalid and disallowed votes. They got 50.01%. Counting all the votes cast reduces it to 49.45%. In 1935 the Labour Party were nowhere near 50%. They got only 47.23%

      The only party that topped the 50% number was National in 1951 when they got a massive 53.99%. I wonder why Peter chose to ignore that election? It certainly makes one doubt the accuracy of his other claims.




      I'm not entirely sure one should not count invalid votes in this calculation. Some of them are certainly protest votes and probably should be counted. I know one person who votes by writing across the paper. "NONE OF THE SWINE" and then puts it in the box. At least that is what he tells me he does. He says he never got over his anarchist days at University.

      • DS 7.3.1

        Labour's peak wasn't 1935. It was 1938 – when it hit 56%.

        Labour also got a majority of the vote in 1946, whereas National managed it in 1949 as well as 1951.

      • alwyn 7.3.2

        I should perhaps mention 1938 when Labour got 55.8% That was not of course "the election of the first Labour government" but the re-election. If Peter can entirely forget 1951 he could easily confuse 1938 and 1935.

        edit. I see DS got in while I was typing this. Quite right. I was doing this form memory and hadn’t considered 46 and 49.

    • Pat 8.1

      "Immigration Minister Phil Twyford called Santos’ lawyer, Marricel Weischede, to confirm Santos had been given a character waiver, overriding the court order to be deported."

      I thought Kris Faafoi was Immigration Minister?

      • alwyn 8.1.1

        Twyford is the Associate Minister. This is a very unusual action. Normally the Minister announces all the good things and the Associated Minister gets assigned the rubbish things the Minister wants to keep clear of.

        Actually this really is a Christmas Miracle. It is the first thing in the four years Phil has been in the Cabinet that he has done something right.

        • Pat

          Appears to be covered by his responsibilities….


          Residence appeals referred by the Immigration and Protection Tribunal for consideration of the grant of residence as exceptions to government residence instructions;

          Requests for exceptions to government residence instructions;

          Requests for special directions;

          Requests to reconsider temporary entry class visa applications;

          Requests for visas under section 61 of the Immigration Act 2009 from people who are not entitled to apply for a visa because they are in New Zealand unlawfully;

          Reconsideration of cases after court action.

          • alwyn

            You will see that these are all things that can get a Minister into trouble. After this was the thing that got Lees-Galloway into trouble when he allowed Sroubek, who had imported drugs, permanent residency.

            Giving them to an Associate Minister gets the things that can cause a Minister real trouble out of the Minister's hair without actually releasing any power to the one in the Associate role. If a decision turns out to be wrong it is the person who made it who is left to struggle.

            That was like John Ehrlichman's view of someone caught up in the Watergate affair. Of course in the end Ehrlichman was caught in the same way.

            “Well, I think we ought to let him hang there,” Ehrlichman told Dean. “Let him twist slowly, twist slowly in the wind.”

      • Pat 8.1.2

        Ah…Twyford is Associate Minister….didnt think Id heard Faafoi had been sacked or quit.

    • Blazer 8.2

      Can't see what's good about it.

      Precedents like this make a mockery of the actual rules.

  7. Scud 9

    Well it’s that time of the year yet again, when the Jolly Red Man pays a visit.

    Anyway, have a Merry Christmas & try to have a Happy Year given the circumstances we are all facing atm with this global pandemic & the Willy waving in various parts of the world at the moment.

    As for next yr, looks like to be another crazy yr for a lot of people so stay safe.

    As for me at the moment, we are having a wet Christmas which is nothing unusual for this time of the year up in the Nth’ern NT with a hint of a possible cyclone forming on the 27th. So that means more reading, more model Ship Building & listening to the Summer of Cricket on the Radio.



    • weka 9.1

      All the best to you too Scud and hope the cyclone fades away. Your holiday plans are sound either way 👍🌲

    • Koff 9.2

      Your low / cyclone is heading our way overland next week (Sandy Strait, Queensland). We have had 2 cyclones in the NT, 1 in Thursday Island, 3 in PNG, all while on a small yacht. Mind you, hanging on for dear life at the end of an anchor chain in Coromandel harbour and the bottom end of Waiheke in over 50 knots was no fun, either!

      • KJT 9.2.1

        The avantages of a shallow draft boat.

        Sitting on the mud by the ferry wharf in Tryphena some years ago, watching all the keel boats doing 45 degree rolls and dragging anchors in the middle.
        70 knots on the radio now-casting from the light houses.
        What's that German word for delighting in others misfortunes? It covers much more meaning than the available English words.

        • Koff

          My wife reckons Tryphena in a raging south westerly was one of our worst ever anchorages, but we didn't drag, just no sleep all night! Lovely sunny calm next day as we motor sailed across Colville Channel towards the Mercuries accompanied by friendly common dolphins.The best thing about NZ bad weather is that it is usually over quite quickly. A cyclone we sheltered from in PNG's Milne Bay (taught there for a few years) lasted several days and we had to wear buckets on our heads if we ventured ashore to protect ourselves from coconuts!

        • Blazer


      • Scud 9.2.2

        This will be our 2nd Cyclone, the last one was Trevor a few yrs back & that was a Cat1 when we were still living in Darwin’s Nth Suburbs when I was still in the RAAF prior to my Med Discharge.

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