Open mike 25/03/2023

60 comments on “Open mike 25/03/2023 ”

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1. Peter 1

   25 March 2023 at 8:44 am

   I see the Hosking Newstalk ZB duo is to go to London for the coronation.

   What a great opportunity. How about they be the New Zealand koha to the monarch to celebrate the occasion?
   • Stuart Munro 1.1

     25 March 2023 at 7:25 pm

     Do it, England, For like the hectic in my blood he rages, And thou must cure me. Till I know 'tis done, Howe'er my haps, my joys were ne'er begun. Hamlet, Act IV, scene III
2. Incognito 2

   25 March 2023 at 9:55 am

   I found the three R’s in National’s Education Policy. It wan’t that hard to find in the one-page policy document pamphlet comprising just 3 bullet points this time under the new National motto less is more that was checked personally by Luxon for errors because he knows the basics like no other:

   1. Repeal
   2. Repeel
   3. Repeal
   4. Repeat
   • roblogic 2.1

     25 March 2023 at 10:21 am

     Not forgetting the other R's of the Nats

     Rugby

     Racing

     beeR

     flog off assets to ouR mates

     loweR wages

     higheR Rent

     Run away to Hawaii with ill-gotten gains
3. Anne 3

   25 March 2023 at 10:09 am

   Before leaving Australia, she told the Herald she had been contacted by police ahead of her arrival..”

   “The police are worried about my safety in your country,” she said.

   “They want to know where I am and make sure I’ve got contacts for them

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/posie-parker-tour-of-nz-anti-trans-activist-kellie-jay-keen-minshull-poised-for-rally/EOWRBWVHK5HY3KV4XJ7TECCE2E/

   Its not so much about your safety sweetie. Its about keeping an eye on you and your offensive blithering.

   Go LQBTQIA+. Give her a blast she will never forget.
   • weka 3.1

     25 March 2023 at 10:51 am

     Women have been assaulted and injured at Let Women Speak events Anne. By gender identity activists. So it is absolutely about KJK's safety.
     • Anne 3.1.1

       25 March 2023 at 11:35 am

       And for every woman who has been assaulted and injured by a transgender activist I would expect some half dozen transgender people have been assaulted and injured by anti-transgender activists.

       It is about the safety of both groups, not just Ms Pansy Parker as she would have us believe.
       • weka 3.1.1.1

         25 March 2023 at 11:40 am

         your expecting is something in your own head Anne. I've not seen any evidence that women speaking at LWS events have been violent towards TRAs. But your making shit up is noted.

         In the livestream I saw a man pull another man off the band rotunda, but it was already a very scary event by that stage and I expect people were reacting out of adrenaline. Police weren't there, reports of assaults of women are already coming in.
         • Phillip ure 3.1.1.1.1

           25 March 2023 at 12:08 pm

           Sometimes it pays to look around and see who you are standing alongside..

           So the champion of those peddling homophobia under a cloak of feminism…is funded by the american evangelicals…is supported by nazis…

           Her fans claim to be surprised that right-wing politicians are alongside them..(.really…?..that displays breathtaking political naivete..)

           She is a big fan of tucker carlson ..(who is one of the foulest creatures drawing breath…who specializes in peddling lies and bigotry ..)

           And here in Auckland her supporters can stand alongside Brian tamaki..screaming abuse at trans people…

           I mean…w.t.f…!

           Lie with dogs and you get fleas..

           Meanwhile I am standing over here.. standing behind the likes of chloe swarbrick…kim hill..and carmel sepuloni…

           I know which group I prefer…
           • weka 3.1.1.1.1.1

             25 March 2023 at 12:23 pm

             you seem confused about a few things Phil.

             1. who is peddling homophobia and how are they connected to KJK?
             2. which fans are you talking about? The right wing politicians supporting KJK isn't a secret.
             3. citation please for the claim that she is a 'big fan' of Tucker Carlson
             4. citation for "in Auckland her supporters can stand alongside Brian tamaki..screaming abuse at trans people…"
             5. was Kim Hill at the protest?

             I haven't modded in bold yet, but I expect answers to all those, backed up by evidence, before you comment on anything else again. You're in premod until that happens.

             The reason I am doing this is to support robust debate, rather than random reckons without back up and rumourmongering. You are of course still free to express your opinions
           • weka 3.1.1.1.1.2

             25 March 2023 at 12:46 pm

             your response to my moderation comment is in Spam. You've been away and seem to not know how things work here. The onus is on you to provide evidence for claims of fact, and that means quotes of the relevant words and links (and timestamps if it's audio/video). I'm not doing your work for you. If you want to make claims of fact *you have to do the mahi. Reread the Policy.
             • Phillip ure …

               25 March 2023 at 1:35 pm

               I pointed you to all my sources…

               Why won't you let readers see that..?
               • weka …

                 25 March 2023 at 1:39 pm

                 As I explained, it’s in Spam. You didn’t link and quote, which I also explained is the evidence required. Banned until Monday because I’m not wasting any more of my time on this. Up your game when you come back please.
           • roblogic 3.1.1.1.1.3

             25 March 2023 at 1:06 pm

             I did hear a rumour that Tamaki's lot might show up (sorry no ref), but clearly that didn't happen.

             Instead, the reality was women being assaulted and abused in a public park, by a frenzied, insane mob. Stirred up by all the bullshit you just repeated.

             It is disappointing that KJK takes interviews with some dodgy groups, and is prone to swearing and rude remarks. She's a lightning rod attracting even worse behaviour from trans activists. She's divisive even amongst gender critical folks. Doesn't call herself a feminist. Hangs out with evangelicals but is an atheist.

             But KJK reveals truth to those who are willing to see.

             “Trans rights” are not really about supporting a marginalized population, but about undermining the rights of girls and women, and bullying people into accepting gender ideology
             • gsays …

               25 March 2023 at 1:51 pm

               Tamaki and posse were in (ironically) Queen Street.

               https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/486680/posie-parker-rally-hundreds-counter-protest-at-albert-park
           • roblogic 3.1.1.1.1.4

             25 March 2023 at 1:19 pm

             … because if the crowd at Albert Park today actually cared about "trans rights" they would be doing something supportive of transgender people, not yelling and screaming at women who want to speak about their own lives and experiences.
           • Anker 3.1.1.1.1.5

             25 March 2023 at 1:27 pm

             You can stand with whoever you like Phillip, but shame on you for shutting down an event to let women speak
           • Molly 3.1.1.1.1.6

             25 March 2023 at 9:56 pm

             Did you go there as you intended, phil?
         • Anne 3.1.1.1.2

           25 March 2023 at 12:19 pm

           I was speaking in general terms weka. It is well known that transgender people have suffered a huge amount of intimidation and physical assaults over the years and it continues. I know from personal experience (not anything to do with this issue) how people who intimidate and hurt others for perceived offences operate… and they rarely get caught and brought to justice.

           I also know that women are far more likely to be bullied and harassed than men because I'm a woman who has experienced that in a particularly nasty and frightening way.

           But that is not the subject matter in this case. It is about irrational hatred towards a group of people who happen to be different. It seems to me that the issue of safety from transgender folk has been blown up out of all proportion to reality.
           • Anker 3.1.1.1.2.1

             25 March 2023 at 1:25 pm

             I have researched the rates of homicide in NZ of transgender people.

             It is lower than males and females. Last one was in something like 2009 and it was in the context of a drug deal gone wrong.
           • Molly 3.1.1.1.2.2

             25 March 2023 at 9:55 pm

             "It is well known that transgender people have suffered a huge amount of intimidation and physical assaults over the years and it continues."

             Well-"known" but not well evidenced. Self-selected surveys I have seen include under acts of violence and intimidation items such as: misgendering, and someone looking at me too long or suspiciously.

             "It is about irrational hatred towards a group of people who happen to be different. "

             Asking for the maintenance of single-sex provisions for women is not irrational hatred.

             Standing for the protection of sexual orientation is not irrational hatred.

             Demanding the removal of queer theory from education is not irrational hatred.

             Asking for evidence based care that does not harm is not irrational hatred.
       • Anker 3.1.1.2

         25 March 2023 at 12:01 pm

         Where is your evidence Anne that women assaulted trans activists.
   • Anker 3.2

     25 March 2023 at 1:23 pm

     Yes they did give Kelly a blast. I have just watched fortage of the crowd mobbing her and of course she was assaulted. Do you condon that Anne?

     A small middle aged women who just wanted to hold a rally to let women (mostly left wing lesbian femisnists) speak

     We now have mob rule in NZ.

     Why didn't the cowards go and try and pick a fight with Tamaki and his boys on bikes if they wanted a fight.
     • roblogic 3.2.1

       26 March 2023 at 8:58 am

       After assaulting KJK and a few unprotected middle aged women, the brave TRAs went down to Queen St to try and disrupt the Destiny Church march and provoke a scene. Tamaki's march was a model of restraint in the face of some awful abusive behaviour.

       Looks like there was a race element here as well, an entitled bunch of privileged white university brats trying to bully a peaceful march of (mostly brown) adults from South Auckland.
       • Incognito 3.2.1.1

         26 March 2023 at 11:51 am

         Tamaki’s march was a model of restraint in the face of some awful abusive behaviour.

         That’s one view. Another view is that he’d already laid down the gauntlet – Tamaki knows how to work the media as well as he knows how to manipulate people & crowds.

         Earlier on Saturday, Destiny Church’s Brian Tamaki and a group of around 40 motorcycles passed Albert Park, revving their engines and yelling at counter-protesters.

         https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300839091/antitrans-activist-posie-parker-leaves-country-after-chaotic-auckland-rally
4. Phillip ure 4

   25 March 2023 at 10:51 am

   Whatever happened to frogblog…?
   • roblogic 4.1

     25 March 2023 at 1:16 pm

     Got renamed to "Green Party blog", then forgotten about. Last post on the wayback machine is from 2018. Someone killed it in Feb/March 2019 as the later site snapshots are just a 404 page.
5. Incognito 5

   25 March 2023 at 10:57 am

   Wayne Brown has been channelling his inner Trump: he fucks with facts and goes for full effect. However, Brown apologists maintain that these are the characteristics – calling them qualities would be a stretch – needed for leadership in Auckland City. Given they knew what Brown’s like, calling them apologists is a euphemism; the deliberate disruption & destruction of local government was carefully planned if not signalled and the dog-whistle worked a treat.

   https://www.newsroom.co.nz/auckland-pulls-a-brexit-on-the-mayors-casting-vote
6. Anker 6

   25 March 2023 at 11:05 am

   Just wondering does anyone know what’s happened to Sabine, Swordfish and Pukish Rogue?

   miss their commentary
   • roblogic 6.1

     25 March 2023 at 2:28 pm

     swordfish (@swordfish7774) is still around AFAICT. no sign of the other two.
     • weka 6.1.1

       25 March 2023 at 3:24 pm

       Sabine always comes and goes. PR does to a bit.
       • bwaghorn 6.1.1.1

         25 March 2023 at 5:36 pm

         I reckon finally came over to the left ,as he seems intelligent, but can't yet face the humble pie he'd have to eat to admit it!!
         • bwaghorn 6.1.1.1.1

           25 March 2023 at 6:01 pm

           Pucky that is, sorry brain's seems to be a bit muddled at the moment,
     • Anker 6.1.2

       25 March 2023 at 10:03 pm

       Thanks Roblogic
7. Stephen D 7

   25 March 2023 at 12:36 pm

   Let’s hope people who shop at Tescos and Sainsbury’s don’t read this.

   https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/25/like-youre-in-a-horror-movie-pollution-leaves-new-zealand-wetlands-irreversibly-damaged?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
8. pat 8

   25 March 2023 at 1:22 pm

   I think we may have something of a problem co ordinating and co operating to change society to rapidly reduce our carbon/methane emissions.
9. Anker 9

   25 March 2023 at 3:10 pm

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300839091/antitrans-activist-posie-parker-escorted-out-of-auckland-rally-set-to-announce-whether-tour-will-continue

   Wellington mayor Tory Whanau said Parker would likely receive the same response in Wellington should she speak in the capital on Sunday, and encouraged Wellingtonians to turn up at the counter-protest.

   Is Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau inciting violence?
   • Shanreagh 9.1

     25 March 2023 at 9:41 pm

     She's parroting Green Party dogma.

     I voted for in the vain hope that she would leave all this political posturing aside and get on with work that Wellingtonians want done, you know water, buildings, aprks, rubbish collection, recycling…… But no such luck and now I'm beating myself around the head about being so stoopid.

     I'll be more careful next time.
10. Belladonna 10

    25 March 2023 at 3:13 pm

    So, this popped up in my inbox today – and blew me away.

    Not content with transforming KiwiSaver, Simplicity is now planning to out-build Kāinga Ora. Duncan Greive meets a pair of of unlikely revolutionaries trying to fix housing – a task which seems impossible, even for the state itself.

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/25-03-2023/inside-the-radical-plan-to-build-the-new-state-house-and-change-renting-forever

    The aim is to deliberately build long-term rentals, owned by Simplicity (the Kiwi saver fund company) – in order to derail many of the issues associated with renting. [There seems to be a sale side too – and I didn't get a clear picture of how these work together]

    So far, it seems to only be in Auckland – though if they can get a big enough handle on the issue here – it will be a game changer, and able to be rolled out to other cities.

    This article is mostly focused on the build side of things (and the way that having a consistent and coherent plan can reduce a lot of the building costs). It remains to be seen if they can convert Kiwis to long-term renting.

    One area not covered, was the actual cost of the rent (below-market is a pretty loose description)

    “Where almost all other large-scale home-builders develop to sell to the private market, Simplicity Living is building to own forever, and to rent out at below-market rates. The scale the pair has planned is vast: the manifesto talks of 10,000 to 15,000 homes over the next decade or so, but Stubbs believes the real ceiling might be far higher.

    “The really big, hairy dream is to have one in 10 New Zealanders living in these things,” he says. That means a minimum of 200,000 houses – around three times the current number of state houses. That’s not an inapt comparison for Stubbs. “We think of it as the new state house,” he says. What that means is, if successful, Simplicity won’t just augment the government’s role in housing – it will far surpass it.”

    It will be fascinating to do a comparison in a couple of years to see what the comparable turnover is.

    I'm not convinced that removing shared amenities (they reference swimming pools and gyms), in order to save money, is necessarily the way to go. It adds an extra cost onto the local government in order to provide what used to be backyard or garage amenities. But, that's a minor quibble.

    Really interesting partnership. And has me cheering them along.
    • RedLogix 10.1

      25 March 2023 at 3:50 pm

      The vision outlined in that excellent article is something similar when we started out in 2001 and built to rent a number of units. We quickly ran into some harsh realities and fast hit the financial limit of what we could do. The key sentence that leapt out at me is:

      Simplicity is basically what would happen if The Opportunities Party were a business, and TOP mostly polls at the margin of error. To succeed at the scale they are dreaming of, they will be greatly helped by governmental goodwill, but their whole posture – let alone the lobbying of rivals – makes that far from a given.

      Build to rent is a bloody good idea, but it depends on a stable financial and political environment to make it work – and we just have not had that.

      I have 7000sqm of flat land, within 300m of a metro train station, that is essentially free. It could readily support 8 or so high quality residential or light commercial units. We have been siting on it for 20 years now – but every time I run the numbers it just does not stack up. A combination of stupid planning, permitting, insane permitting and building costs, interest rates all over the shop and a highly uncertain regulatory environment just stops us every time. TBH I have kind of given the dream away and short of just selling it on, I have no sense of what I want to do now.

      The Brealy's are clearly operating at a much greater scale than us, and have a far deeper industry skillset and clout – yet everything he speaks to, we have encountered ourselves. I have a close friend who has done something similar with a large block of land in West Auckland – and he can tell all manner of horror stories.

      There are so many aspects to this challenge that anyone who proposes simple silver bullet solutions is a fool. But one aspect that we have yet to understand how to intensify its towns and cities, without turning them into anti-human, soulless ghettos. In this Alexander's A Pattern Language remains the archetype criminally neglected by the planning and building professions.

      Still you have to wish Brealy well – and I will follow his progress with interest.
      • Belladonna 10.1.1

        25 March 2023 at 3:56 pm

        I laughed my head off when the KO head was quoted as claiming that they were "efficient and systems-driven". I have a friend working for them, and he tells me that the KO cost over-runs are legendary.
        • RedLogix 10.1.1.1

          25 March 2023 at 4:09 pm

          Yeah we have our own modest wee Housing NZ story as well. Promise you one thing, fail dismally to deliver.

          The one key factor that Simplicity Living has going in it's favour for the moment, is that while interest is not a tax deductible expense for all existing rental investors, it is for anyone building new. That gives them an edge I am sure they will be running with.

          But again I am not sure I would bank on this long-term.
11. Belladonna 11

    25 March 2023 at 4:16 pm

    I really don't know what to think about this…..

    Most feedback on the highly controversial Auckland Budget has been from those who are Pakeha and over 45.

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/23-03-2023/youll-never-guess-which-groups-are-over-represented-in-auckland-budget-feedback

    [NB: article from a couple of days ago, so late-arriving submissions may have changed this – but I doubt it]

    This is the budget which is proposing swingeing cuts across just about every community service that we use on a daily basis.

    Is this just a reflection of the standard political engagement profile? Those are the people who vote.

    Is it a statement of belief that politicians don't listen to communities in any case? I'd agree with this in general, but this area has a lot of diverse opinions around the council table – it's one time that submissions (lots of them) could really make a difference.

    Is it that the methodology of submission (e-questionaire) is offputting? Can't argue with that – I hate them, myself. And, it's likely to disproportionately exclude the elderly (who are otherwise great submitters to Council) – and lower-income residents without stable internet (these surveys are even worse on a mobile phone) [cf the similar exclusion of people evident from the latest Census]

    Or, are we (as a city) just so hopeless that we can influence the outcomes of our local government (even when it directly affects us) that we've just given up?

    This level of response is not giving those who oppose the cuts a whole lot of ammunition.
    • Liberty Belle 11.1

      25 March 2023 at 4:32 pm

      There has been a huge push to engage people in this process, particularly across social media. The submission forms are available on-line, in multiple languages, and if you don't want to write a submission, you can complete an on-line questionnaire that acts as a submission builder. A number of lobby/political groups have issued submission guides, including the Greens.

      "Is it a statement of belief that politicians don't listen to communities in any case? "

      Possibly, that has certainly been a problem in Auckland for some time.
12. RedLogix 12

    25 March 2023 at 4:21 pm

    Can we do this too please?

    Across eastern Europe, the addresses of Russian embassies are being changed as a form of protest against the war in Ukraine. In the Latvian capital, Riga, the section of Antonijas Street where the Russian embassy is located is set to be renamed Ukrainian Independence Street. And in Vilnius, Lithuania, the previously unnamed road on which the embassy sits (the address for which used to refer to the nearest main street) has now become Ukrainos Didvyrių g.: Ukrainian Heroes Street.

    Trolling as govt policy
    • adam 12.1

      25 March 2023 at 6:15 pm

      Lets not. People have lost their collective minds over this shitty war.

      What next, saying depleted Uranium shells are harmless? Which now seems to be the propaganda the western media is pushing.

      Tell that to my Kurdish friends in Iraq, and they will spit in your face.
      • RedLogix 12.1.1

        25 March 2023 at 7:02 pm

        IEAA article on DU

        Another on the Lancet. (Dated 2002)

        Exposures to uranium are not new, or uncommon. Many thousands of workers have been exposed to various uranium compounds over many years through processing of uranium from its ore to production of fuel elements. The health of such workers has been investigated, many of whom received higher intakes than do most soldiers on a battlefield. No clear evidence for any excess of cancers or kidney disease has been seen in these workers and their overall mortality is less than that in the general population because of a “healthyworker effect”. Despite the limitations of these studies, the absence of observed effects in uranium workers makes it unlikely that the risks of cancer or kidney disease from depleted uranium have been greatly underestimated.

        Reports on the health hazards of depleted uranium munitions have concluded that exposures to depleted uranium likely to occur on the battlefield will probably not lead to any measureable excesses of cancers. However, risk assessments have had to estimate intakes of depleted uranium in the battlefield using poor data for the concentrations and properties of depleted uranium oxides in aerosols released during test firings, and using modelling procedures to predict the resulting concentrations of depleted uranium in tissues and organs, and the radiological and toxicological risks. The problem comes in trying to decide whether there are long-term effects. Without satisfactory data, and until there are better estimates of the actual intakes of depleted uranium on the battlefield, it may be prudent to remain open-minded.

        Yes DU is an undesirable substance to be flinging about, but nor is there firm evidence of it being as hazardous as some people would like you to think it is. I agree it would be a much better world if the uranium was put to better use in breeder reactors to produce energy. Maybe you could get in touch with your good mate Poots and ask him to arrange something.
        • adam 12.1.1.1

          25 March 2023 at 9:10 pm

          Your just showing you have lost your fucking mind. As you went and defend using depleted uranium rounds.

          Any side using depleted uranium is engaging in war crimes. Because as Iraq so clearly showed, it was after the fact, when people live in the areas of the spent rounds – the real problems happen.

          Fuck putin and his gaggle of oligarchs. But me saying that means nothing to you, because you want a cheap shot. And can't get your head around the fact their are truly fucked up actions in war which should be considered war crimes. Like invading another country, and using depleted Uranium rounds.
          • RedLogix 12.1.1.1.1

            25 March 2023 at 9:57 pm

            OK so I have done a quick scan of your referenced report and the summary on page 11 states:

            In this report, it is concluded that the radiation doses from DU do not pose a radiological hazard to the population at the four studied locations in southern Iraq. The estimated annual committed effective radiation doses that could arise from exposure to DU residues are low, always less than 100 µSv/a and only to a few, if any, individuals, and therefore of little radiological concern. The estimated radiation doses are less than those received on average by individuals from natural sources of radiation in the environment

            I could quote more of it, but it seems to continue in much the same vein.

            DU is potentially something of a chemically toxic substance, and if a sufficiently large dose is consumed it can be harmful to the kidneys. But then again there are a bazillion substances that are chemically toxic one way or another, many found on the battlefield environment.

            All three reports we have quoted between us so far on this thread agree that from a radiological aspect DU is a very modest radiological hazard. The reason is not hard to understand; DU is an alpha emitter; relatively large and heavy particles that have very little penetrating power. Typically stopped by the layer of dead skin or a plastic bag, all alpha emitters have to be ingested and become absorbed within a cell before they can possibly cause DNA replication damage. In addition uranium is a very large atom and is not easily absorbed through the cell wall, and the vast majority of it ingested or inhaled is excreted through the faeces within a day or two. The small faction that makes it's way into the bones is the site of potential concern.

            However U-238 (the isotope consisting of 99.3% of DU) has a very long half-life, which means the rate of atoms disintegrating is very low. So low that the normal cellular and immune system mechanisms that ordinarily repair DNA damage can easily keep up. In other words the rate of the dose is well below the threshold where it might create a detectable excess hazard.

            As I said above, I would much sooner they did not waste perfectly good uranium on munitions, but honestly I am not seeing the war crime here.

            As for the cheap shot – hell I was being restrained for someone who is out of their fucking mind.
            • adam 12.1.1.1.1.1

              26 March 2023 at 12:33 am

              They Ammunition's are never cleaned up, they linger for years and whilst it may only effect small percentage of the population. Your argument, not mine.

              What it does do to the people it does effect, is to fuck their lives completely. Now that is going to happen year on year, for how ever long it takes for this compound that has been introduced into the environment via war.

              I'm not arguing nuclear contamination, I'm arguing the fact this is a long term toxin introduced into the environment for no good reason. There I think we agree.

              I get the cancer rates in Iraq have settled down, but their have been flare ups recently in Southern Iraq,This after the whole toxicity of war had settled down somewhat. The north of Iraq has normal cancer and deformity rates.

              I think poisoning the environment in war, is a war crime. I also think Russian heads should be on the chopping block/hangman's noose for the use of Cluster munitions and fléchettes (evil little fuckers) as they also in the end – target civilians and stay in the environment for a bloody long time.
              • RedLogix …

                26 March 2023 at 12:56 am

                We absolutely agree on the horror of war – there have been moments I have sat behind my computer screen this past year in a state of despair at what we can all see if you choose to go looking for it.

                You might find some food for thought here:

                Wars are obsolete means of conflict resolution, and they are a blemish on our progress and civilisation as human beings.

                They have got to be criminalised and eliminated, and humans, as individuals in societies, should resort to civil means of resolving issues, such as those mentioned above, as well as resorting to courts as the ultimate option.

                Neither wars nor politicians should be left to determine the way we conduct ourselves and the course of life on our planet.
        • Scud 12.1.1.2

          26 March 2023 at 12:42 am

          There is really no need to deploy DU A/T Rd's into Ukraine as the Russians haven't to my knowledge deployed any of it MBT's with DU Armour & thence the need for DU Rounds as the standard Tungsten Sabot Rd had trouble penetrating DU Armour.

          The concern with DU Rounds actually comes being use as Artillery Rds for the 155mm Artillery Guns & anyone who understands the dark arts of Gunnery be it from MG's in Sustain Fire Support Role to the Big stuff. When you start chucking around Lead, HE, Smoke/ WP for Target Indication it can get very messy & now throw DU Artillery Rds!

          You are just asking for Bloody Trouble now & no wonder there is DU shrapnel spread around like a dog's breakfast causing all sorts of issues.
          • RedLogix 12.1.1.2.1

            26 March 2023 at 1:15 am

            I'm no fan of DU munitions unless used against highly hardened targets that uniquely justifies their use.

            I understand and accept that DU will be controversial when used in munitions – but all the analysis I have read suggests there are plenty of other things that are routinely used on the battlefield, both during and long after (mines for example) – that are of equal if not greater concern.

            And on a brighter note:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJhklT4ST9M
13. Drowsy M. Kram 13

    25 March 2023 at 5:28 pm

    Do we rational, social animals devote too much time and effort going for the jugular?

    How to Encourage More Climate-Friendly Habits, According to Science
    [24 March 2023]
    As it turns out, when it comes to taking action to stop climate change, the best way of changing people’s behavior is what the researchers termed “social comparisons,” which resulted in an average 14% change in people’s behavior. Basically, when people see that other people have taken a specific action, they’re likely to copy it.
    …
    And while it doesn’t do much to simply know that a certain product is more eco-friendly, if people see others buying that product instead of the dirty one, they’re much more likely to choose it themselves. “After all,” Bergquist says, “we are a highly social animal.”
14. joe90 14

    25 March 2023 at 7:10 pm

    The largest air force in Europe. Poots will be delighted.

    https://twitter.com/nukestrat/status/1638991916250329088
    • Anne 14.1

      25 March 2023 at 9:05 pm

      A Nordic Airforce. Smart move indeed. But then the Nordic countries have a reputation for sanity and smartness. NZ should align themselves to them despite the geographical distance. We have much in common with them.
      • adam 14.1.1

        25 March 2023 at 9:19 pm

        You get the Russians are paranoid as fuck at the best of times. So how is this a good idea?

        In my opinion, its more of the deluded dick waving by all the world leaders, who fail us at every turn.
15. Joe90 15

    25 March 2023 at 10:44 pm

    Of course Russia would never use the depleted uranium munitions manufactured to be used in the T-80BV tanks ugraded to be able to fire depleted uranium munitions.

    Russia has a significant number of different DU-rounds in its arsenals. There are reports of mass production of the improved Svinets-1 and Svintes-2 depleted uranium ammunition, for which the T-80BVM tanks were modernized during the last years. It seems that Russia didn’t abandon its DU programme, but on the contrary – it has increased production volumes and is actively modernizing outdated tanks to make them capable of firing DU ammunition. Even though there are no reliable reports yet, considering the DU-capable tanks being used in the invasion, ICBUW fears use of DU in Ukraine.

    https://www.icbuw.eu/depleted-uranium-weapons-state-of-affairs-2022/
    • adam 15.1

      26 March 2023 at 12:35 am

      And if they use them we should consider it a war crime.
      • Scud 15.1.1

        26 March 2023 at 12:44 am

        Well a number of NGO's are trying to get them banned & rightly so in my opinion!

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