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Open mike 25/02/2015

Written By: - Date published: 5:55 am, February 25th, 2015 - 161 comments
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161 comments on “Open mike 25/02/2015”

  1. logie97 1

    Key couldn’t remember what he was doing in the early 1980s.
    He was possibly thumbing through his “Battler Britain” comics.
    Seems now he might also have been captured by the Falklands and is now
    hoping for his own “Thatcher” moment.

    • Paul 1.1

      We have a rogue government that does not ask its people or parliament whether it should go to war or not.

      • gsays 1.1.1

        hi paul, ref a rogue government: perhaps we do, however till the sheeple wake up to this, nothing changes.
        to raise awareness perhaps a day of action akin to the anti tppa protests coming up early march?

    • logie97 1.2

      If the NZ role is just training, then why not bring the trainees here to New Zealand and teach them all the tactics they need in a non-war zone, peaceful environment.

      • Colonial Rawshark 1.2.1

        Because then our “force protection” troops could not help to secure a Forward Operating Base in Iraq from which assault operations on ISIS will be launched from.

  2. Whateva next? 2

    Was Key channeling Jack Nicholson in a Few Good Men for his performance in parliament yesterday?
    Once again key simply does not ring true.Little is a true leader, calm, capable and cogent.

    • b waghorn 2.1

      Mr Little was in very good form on tv3 this morning he gave solid reasoned views on Iraq.
      Paddy giving not a bad breakdown of the cost of keys announcement in his eyes its when not if we get a retaliation from I S.

      • Pete George 2.1.1

        To an extent. But he said it doesn’t take guts to sit in Wellington making tough decisions. I think he’s wrong about that.

        If he believes what he said then I don’t think he’s ready to step up to Prime Ministerial level, which is a very tough job involving many tough decisions.

        • les 2.1.1.1

          so is NZ a dictatorship now Pete?

          • Pete George 2.1.1.1.1

            Nowhere near that les. I think Key should have sought Parliamentary support, but it wasn’t a democratic requirement.

            If it had come to the crunch would Labour have voted against it? There’s no way of knowing now, but as this is at the request of Iraq it’s arguably more legitimate than decisions made by the Clark Government and Parliament at the time.

            • les 2.1.1.1.1.1

              ‘at the request of Iraq’…really…is it a legitimate,democratic ‘Iraq’ that made the request?

            • freedom 2.1.1.1.1.2

              Seeing as Labour and the Greens both put forward a motion for a vote – which National objected to both times – your “no way of knowing” is as empty as Key’s credibility.

            • vto 2.1.1.1.1.3

              “at the request of Iraq ”

              ha ha that is the funniest thing heard in a long time. Well actually not that long as it has been heard quite a lot lately. Not surprised you fall for it Pete.

              at the request of Iraq

              ha ha ha

              at the request of Iraq

            • felix 2.1.1.1.1.4

              Pete:

              “I think Key should have sought Parliamentary support, but it wasn’t a democratic requirement.”

              Nope. It wasn’t a legal requirement to be democratic, so he chose not to be democratic.

            • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1.1.5

              I think Key should have sought Parliamentary support, but it wasn’t a democratic requirement.

              Yeah, actually, it was. We don’t get democracy by having a few people in cabinet making executive decisions. Going to war is a major policy and really should have been put to referendum even if the nation that we’d be fighting for requested it.

            • KJT 2.1.1.1.1.6

              The normal right wing excuses for their latest antisocial, cruel and sadistic actions.

              “It is legal”.

              “Some one else would have done it (And creamed off the money) if I hadn’t”.

              “Eastasia or Westasia this week?

              • McFlock

                yeah.

                Many of them genuinely seem to think that if they got away with it (so far), it can’t be wrong.

                A similar but lighter example is an opinion piece in Stuff today that argued the underarm ball incident was not actually wrong: it was legal, it might have been possible to still hit a six and tie the game, even if it wasn’t possible then the bowler could have bowled a perfect ball that was impossible to hit for six, or that the aussie team could have turned into the keystone cops and allowed NZ to get six runs via fielding errors.

                There’s a basic inability to recognise a dick move when it’s there. That winning a game of athletic skill via bureaucratic oversight is preferable to getting a draw. That exploiting a tax loophole to pay less than your fair share is fine because it’s temporarily legal. That taking the ability the Executive has to use the armed forces speedily to react to threats and using it to avoid gaining parliament’s permission for a contentious, planned, long term deployment is not an abuse of the very democracy that parliament is there to exercise.

                And the signature of a dick is to not know or care that it’s a dick. That’s why key shrugs his shoulders so often.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Imagine the cast of Hot Fuzz intoning “The letter of the law, the letter of the law…”

                  National Party values.

                  • McFlock

                    actually it’s more like Timothy Dalton’s character thinking that pronouncing it “super marshay” is a cool thing to do, rather than mildly greasy and irritating. 🙂

        • Murray Rawshark 2.1.1.2

          What tough decisions? A tough decision would be to kick all pedophiles out of the NAct party, or to up the top tax rate, or to chase after corporate fraudsters. Sending our kids to war, or selling state houses are not tough decisions. They come naturally to Tory scum.

        • mac1 2.1.1.3

          Boy, Pete, you know how to twist words.

          “When we’re talking about guts, I think I’ll reserve that for the soldiers who we’re sending up there,” Mr Little responded on Firstline this morning.

          “This is one of the most dangerous conflict zones in the world – you don’t need much guts to sit on a leather couch in Wellington and send people off to do your bidding for you, so let’s get that in perspective.”

          Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/little-doesnt-take-guts-to-boss-troops-around-2015022509#ixzz3Si1IYSLK

          Andrew Little was contrasting the amount of guts shown by Key sitting on his couch and the guts shown by the soldiers sent by John Key.

          • mac1 2.1.1.3.1

            Sorry chaps. Forgot the rules. DNFTT. Starting at A.

            The aardvark (/ˈɑrd.vɑrk/ ard-vark; Orycteropus afer) is a medium-sized, burrowing, nocturnal mammal native to Africa. It is the only living species of the order Tubulidentata, although other prehistoric species and genera of Tubulidentata are known. Unlike New World edentates such as the giant anteater, it has a long pig-like snout, which is used to sniff out food. It roams over most of the southern two-thirds of the African continent, avoiding mainly rocky areas. A nocturnal feeder, it subsists on ants and termites, which it will dig out of their hills using its sharp claws and powerful legs. It also will utilize its digging ability to create burrows in which to live and rear its young.

    • Yep key went for the oscar – simplistic messages delivered as if he believed them – his non-thinking minions will lap it up – pg 101

      • Pete George 2.2.1

        As it turns out I didn’t like Key’s second speech, I don’t think that was appropriate. But there was an unusual amount of emotion expressed so fair enough for Key to say what he thought.

        And the Green faithful will have lapped up Norman’s naivety and contradictions.

        • marty mars 2.2.1.1

          attack the Greens, attack the Greens – maintain low tones – attack the Greens, attack the Greens…

          • Sacha 2.2.1.1.1

            Chard and the other beets are chenopods, a group which is either its own family Chenopodiaceae or a subfamily within the Amaranthaceae. Although the leaves of chard are eaten, it is in the same species as beetroot (garden beet), which is grown primarily for its edible roots. Both are cultivated descendants of the sea beet, Beta vulgaris subsp. maritima, but they were selected for different characteristics.

            Chard is also known by its many common names such as Swiss chard,[7] silverbeet, perpetual spinach, spinach beet, crab beet, bright lights, seakale beet, and mangold.[8] In South Africa, it is simply called spinach.[9]

          • tc 2.2.1.1.2

            As predictable as the sun coming up each day is old petey.

        • freedom 2.2.1.2

          “emotion” ? or a loss of composure, due to stress grown from insincere motives

          • Jenny Kirk 2.2.1.2.1

            “emotion ? or a loss of composure..”.

            I thought it was an act. ShonKey using some false “emotion” to try to show sheeples that he really does believe this tripe about needing to go to war.

            The guy is an actor. A puppet. Whose strings are pulled from afar, and who has never shown his real self to NZers.

            • Rosie 2.2.1.2.1.1

              +1 Jenny and freedom.

              Key’s performance yesterday was Oscar worthy. He has to make an effort to convince NZer’s he’s made the right decision. And I agree with freedom, he is under stress and losing his composure.

              Bullshitting to save your arse can be really stressful, and add all that acting effort, it’s no wonder he’s looking a bit undone.

            • rhinocrates 2.2.1.2.1.2

              I remember Peter Sellers on The Muppet Show, where he said, “There isn’t a me, I’ve had it surgically removed!”

        • Stuart Munro 2.2.1.3

          E. lecontei adults are smaller than most terrestrial weevils, measuring only 3 mm in length. This weevil is generally dark-colored with a pattern of dark brown/black and yellowish stripes on the dorsal half, fading to a lighter, yellow-beige underbelly. However, some weevil individuals vary in color from almost completely tan to beige.

        • tracey 2.2.1.4

          “From observing your pet every day, you’ll have noticed that your cat has a pattern that it follows quite religiously. For example, your adult indoor cat might spend the mornings lying in a pool of sunshine in the corner of the dining room. Later, he watches you as you go about your household chores, and then his rigorous day winds down with a patient vigil by the kitchen door waiting for his children – otherwise known as your children – to come home. Your feline has developed these routines to protect his territory and frequently your pet’s definition of “territory” includes his human family members.

          As your cat grows older, he becomes less capable of adapting to changes in his environment. Your pet gets particular about even the smallest detail of his surroundings and will notice changes in food (brand or type), the consistency of his litter and even in your schedule or in the schedules of other family members. Abrupt or drastic changes in your cat’s routine and environment can produce a great deal of stress, which can result in a variety of stress-induced behaviors – including litter box problems, aggression, self-mutilation or general despondency.

          The best possible way to keep your cat stress free is to try to maintain your daily routine and to keep changes to a minimum. When changes are necessary, try introducing them to your cat gradually while leaving every other aspect of the routine in place. Limit exposure to new people and new foods, etc., on the first day and increase the exposure to newness over a seven-day period. If you have houseguests or other situations where the household is materially changed, remember to give your cat as much extra attention as you can.”

  3. gsays 3

    what with: spying in tangimoana on behalf of the us,
    rounding up that pesky german,
    altering nz labour law,
    offering tax breaks to american film companies,
    sending kiwi soldiers to help clean up another us war,
    and being a golf buddy to the pousa.

    i am reminded of a the the song, heartland.
    youtube.com/watch?v=1osdqwaiu08

    ” The ammunition’s being passed and the lords been praised
    But the wars on the televisions will never be explained
    All the bankers gettin’ sweaty beneath their white collars
    As the pound in our pocket turns into a dollar

    This is the 51st state of the U.S.A.
    This is the 51st state of the U.S.A.
    This is the 51st state of the U.S.A.

    this may give an insight to what our dear leader wants our new flag to look like.

  4. dv 4

    Last year there we not going to be boots on the ground this year….

    Tough decision HA
    The tough decision would be Not to go

    And it is not his kids that he is putting in danger.

    my problem is I find it difficult to trust anything Key says.

  5. philj 5

    Key says we are sending Army ‘trainers’ to Iraq in order to keep us Kiwis safe. You cannot be serious!

  6. Tautoko Mangō Mata 6

    …and his announcement has just made Kiwis less safe!
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/66608944/brace-for-is-threats-analyst-warns

  7. Coffee Connoissuer 7

    a reply given in a discussion of what children should be taught in schools..

    “What about: a history of morals, ethics and decency – self realisation and why being a dick gets you no where”

    brilliant!!

  8. vto 8

    Key makes even more of a joke of himself when he yells like a show-off schoolboy.

    He has no gravitas, no mana. He is just an empty hollow man and his yelling speech yesterday evidenced this yet again.

  9. freedom 9

    Meanwhile, in one of the great cities of our friend the USA, the rule of law is ? ? ?
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/02/chicago-police-operating-cia-style-black-site-for-domestic-interrogations-report

  10. “..Pot is 114 Times Safer Than Booze – Says Study..

    ..New research finds pot is the least deadly among recreational drugs –

    – by far..”

    (cont..)

    http://www.alternet.org/pot-114-times-safer-booze-says-study

    • Clemgeopin 10.1

      But isn’t it better, healthier and safer to live without either of those?

      And Oh, also by boycotting and without visiting our casinos ever again for good measure?

      • phillip ure 10.1.1

        ideally..i guess..

        (but that is really up there with ‘wouldn’t it be nice if everyone had a pony?’..

        ..as in..it isn’t going to happen..)

        ..and the facts of the matter are that young people (esp.) of most cultures like to take intoxicants of some form..

        ..(it is/always has been – thus..and not only for ‘the young’..)

        ..so we have the intoxicant safest by ‘114 times’..being prohibited..

        ..and the intoxicant ‘114’ times more dangerous..

        ..the killer-drug alcohol..

        ..is advertised/encouraged..

        • Clemgeopin 10.1.1.1

          True, true.

          Like the rum or the coke dilemma. ‘Which is more harmful?’

        • adam 10.1.1.2

          Alcohol is not so much the elephant in the room – It’s were is the room, because I can’t see anything but the elephant.

          As long as we keep up prohibition – people suffer, people dying suffer, families suffer, criminals are made for no reason, racist cops have laws which enable them to be racists, and we can’t tell children not to smoke pot in a public debate.

          Clemgeopin, live pure – like that going to happen. I’d rather we had open debate around drugs and drug use rather than it being hidden.

          Hell I dream of the day we can have adds on TV which say.

          “Don’t smoke pot and drink alcohol together – why? Because – it really does make you into an arsehole”

          or

          “Smoking pot under the age of 21 is like drinking under 21 – a licence to make you stupid and compliant. Wait till your 21 ah.”

          • Colonial Rawshark 10.1.1.2.1

            Making marijuana medically available and also an R21 drug has merits worth considering.

          • weka 10.1.1.2.2

            alcohol and cannabis aren’t the problem. Why some people use in unhealthy ways is where to look if we want to see the problem. Take away the drugs, what are those people going to do?

          • Clemgeopin 10.1.1.2.3

            “Clemgeopin, live pure”

            I didn’t say I don’t enjoy a drink.

            • weka 10.1.1.2.3.1

              “But isn’t it better, healthier and safer to live without either of those?”

              What did you mean by that? I took that to mean you support complete abstinence as ideal.

            • adam 10.1.1.2.3.2

              What Weka said

              • Clemgeopin

                No, no, I do enjoy a drink or three.
                Don’t do drugs and will most certainly NEVER visit a NZ casino EVER AGAIN after the recent fiasco and the disgraceful dodgy nexus between the two evils : The nasty Nats and the gambling Casino goons.

        • greywarshark 10.1.1.3

          Cripes phillip u can you stay off pot for a week? I am not talking about what happens at your place just give us a break here. Make that a month would you. I and some others would be grateful to not have that subject for a good while.

          • phillip ure 10.1.1.3.1

            legalise it and i’ll shut up…

            ..’till then…

            • lprent 10.1.1.3.1.1

              …and regulate and tax it heavily.

              (You always seem to miss that crucial part)

              • not really…

                ..legalise..regulate..tax is/has been the/my basic argument all along..

                ..i just don’t necessarily restate the pillars in every story/link..

                ..and as for txing..

                ..didyaknow that colorado has taken so much income from tax from legal pot..

                ….it breaches some sort of government-greed stricture..

                ..and that excess tax will be distributed back to the citizens of colorado..

                ..legal pot..and a tax-refund..?

                ..only a true curmudgeon wd sneer @ that..

              • Clemgeopin

                “…and regulate and tax it heavily”

                Regulating it is fine but taxing it ‘heavily’ is not so much because, as is always the case, be it tobacco, dope, or GST, it will hit the poorest the most…and in the case of dope, I think it will be the gangs that will rub their hands with joy and heartily support ‘heavy’ taxes!

                • Colonial Rawshark

                  Even after heavy taxation the price is going to be cheaper than today’s black market prices.

    • Lanthanide 10.2

      I was wondering how long it would take you to reference that red herring of a study.

      They simply compared the lethal dose 50 of alcohol to the lethal dose 50 of marijuana.

      The LD50 of alcohol is significantly lower than marijuana. That’s it. That’s all the study found.

      It doesn’t mention anything about societal use or injuries / damage caused by the drugs, it’s purely looking at the dose it would take to kill you.

      You might notice, that very few people actually die of alcohol poisoning. Virtually no one dies of marijuana poisoning.

      These findings are not news nor surprising to anyone who understands what the study is *actually* about. Unfortunately, as usual, the media have boiled it down to the lowest-common-denominator and written a headline and article that distorts the study to a huge degree and presents it as if it is some great new finding and is somehow relevant to the marijuana vs alcohol debate, when really it warrants nothing more than a passing interest.

      • phillip ure 10.2.1

        oh..!..ok..lath..

        ..how about you link us to yr research that shows how cannabis is a far more dangerous drug than alcohol..

        ..u r dancing around the edges..

        ..deliberately missing the point..

        ..is it only 95 times worse than alcohol..not 114..?

        ..50 times..?

        ..and factcheck…unless a bale of it falls on yr head..

        ..there is no ‘lethal-dose’ of pot..

        ..booze however..?

        • te reo putake 10.2.1.1

          Who needs a link? The damage is obvious every time you post, Phil.

          • McFlock 10.2.1.1.1

            correlation != causation 🙂

          • phillip ure 10.2.1.1.2

            waiting for the body-bags..?..war-monger..?

            ..will you still be such an armchair-warrior when that happens..eh..?

            ..you fucken unthinking-fool..

            ..trp..supporting/handwringing-around cia propaganda-campaigns..

            .. since at least..gadfaffi..

            • te reo putake 10.2.1.1.2.1

              Change down man, find your neutral space …

              • war-mongering/unthinking clowns piss me off..

                ..i have no ‘neutral-space’ for fools such as that..

                (and i can roll joints like that..)

                • who said americans as a nation are warmongering psycopathic-bastards..?

                  ..is it because in the 237 yrs since the foundation of america -america has largely been at war..?

                  – guess how many years of those 237 america was not at war with someone..?

                  ..21 yrs…

                  .21 out of 237..

                  ..that means that since its’ founding..

                  ..america has been in a state of war for 93% of the fucken time..

                  ..deserving of a ‘whoar!’..?..surely..?

        • Lanthanide 10.2.1.2

          You’ve completely missed my point, of course.

          How about we compare the boiling points of THC and ethanol and use that guide us as to whether the drugs should be illegal or not?

          That would only be slightly less relevant that what the study is talking about.

          • phillip ure 10.2.1.2.1

            no..u miss the point..

            ..that alcohol is far more dangerous than cannabis..

            ..r u arguing against that proposition..?

            ..legalise..!..regulate..!..tax..!

            • Lanthanide 10.2.1.2.1.1

              No, I’m not arguing against that proposition. Alcohol is obviously much more damaging to society and individuals than marijuana is.

              I’m saying *this* article doesn’t offer any new insight to anyone who would be making legislative decisions about this. Anyone trumpeting this as some sort of grand new evidence is misguided.

              In simple terms: this study is telling us what we already knew and what was already obvious.

              • so why isn’t it legal..?

                ..if it is so fucken ‘obvious’..?

                ..and i thought the article/information was useful..

                ..emphasising how dangerous alcohol is..

                ..and how not dangerous cannabis is..

  11. adam 11

    Just a couple of pieces to remind people that rabid right wing have no morals. They love money not people and are only interested in “the bottom line”. The sooner we stand up against this greed mentality – the better for humanity and an increased chance for it’s survival, as we approach the end of the golden weather.

    http://www.publicintegrity.org/2015/02/20/16796/hsbcs-political-committee-goes-dark-days-swiss-leaks-scandal

    http://www.publicintegrity.org/2015/02/24/16809/mitt-romney-rand-paul-and-porno-spoof

  12. Ennui 12

    Anybody notice that Thea Muldoon passed away? It’s on Stuff. Given his turbulent political career I can only hope she enjoyed a peaceful widowhood.

    • greywarshark 12.1

      Barry Gustafson I think was on Radionz – came to know her well. She was very supportive of old Fartface and was a true blue lady herself. She probably enjoyed a relationship with Margaret Thatcher. I think she had a pretty good time of it all.

      Cf Margaret Thorn’s life. Now that was a staunch and beautiful woman to admire. Does anyone remember her?

      • Molly 12.1.1

        Thanks for that greywarshark. Just read a short piece about her on Te Ara website. Sounds like an interesting and admirable woman, and the experience of her and her husband is a timely one to read regarding the ISIS discussion.

        As for the title of her last book: “Stick out, and keep left”. Pretty much sums it up.

        • greywarshark 12.1.1.1

          Yes Molly I had the book in the back of my mind for yonks but couldn’t get the name right and I think Ennui or one of the stalwarts here gave me the steer.

          And the difference between now and how politics used to be! At one stage she and her husband filled a major political role, can’t remember the exact position and she visited an organisation in her elevated capacity. Then they were out of government, her husband got sick, and she was back at that organisation as a cook working flat out in the kitchens. Real Cinderella stuff. A very hard worker. Both of the Thorns were.

          • Anne 12.1.1.1.1

            Thea Muldoon was a genuine conservative lady – one of the old fashioned
            Conservatives who believed in following and supporting her husband at all cost. I met her once after her husband had died and realised she was a kind and genuine person. She was a product of her conservative upbringing, but I came to admire her for her loyalty and decency.

            RIP Thea Muldoon.

      • Ergo Robertina 12.1.2

        Grey – Best not to compare and contrast these very different women in this manner.
        Would you do the same if a man you disliked passed away (find a ‘worthy’ man with whom to compare him)?

        I agree with Anne’s sentiments; nicely put.

  13. Colonial Rawshark 13

    Massive methane gas blowholes opening up in SIberia

    Seems like Russian scientists think that the “clatharate gun” has gone off. That 2 degree C target is history, methinks, and with it, hundreds of millions of human lives.

    http://rt.com/news/235219-craters-siberia-yamal-lake/

  14. Colonial Rawshark 14

    US Police now using Stasi secret police tactics on protestors

    Chicago’s “Homan Square” police facility where protestors can get disappeared to and chained up without access to lawyers, phone calls, or contact with the outside world. Detainees are not officially charged.

    This is what the gradual evolution of a totalitarian security state looks like, people.

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site

    • freedom 14.2

      I agree, this story cannot be linked to often enough 😉

    • tracey 14.3

      CRIPES!!

    • adam 14.4

      Can I add, one of the Anarchy-capitalist I talk to sometimes. He’s always good for a argument. Got pulled into something similar to this. Luckily he was missed, and his friends/family knew/guessed it was the cops – so eventually got a lawyer – after 3 days from memory.

      So if you think it’s only us on the left they are targeting – think again.

      • Colonial Rawshark 14.4.1

        With their new systems they are targetting anyone who is identified as a potential dissenter to the current systems of privilege and power. That’s why they’ll target lefty protestors, Tea Party members, whistle blowers and journalists.

        This more than anything else, signals how the Left/Right paradigm is breaking down. Now it is about the Inner Circle (and their professional enablers/hangers ons) and Everybody else.

        • te reo putake 14.4.1.1

          The PTB want you to think the left/right paradigm is breaking down. It’s actually the monopolist right versus everyone else as we head into peak capitalism.

          • Colonial Rawshark 14.4.1.1.1

            Pretty sure peak capitalism was reached by the early 80’s. Crony capitalism and financialisation began to take over then.

            The PTB want you to think the left/right paradigm is breaking down.

            Pretty sure it’s well gone.

          • Bill 14.4.1.1.2

            Snowden and Assange? Hitler and Stalin?

            Which ones are left and which ones are right? Which ones a penchant for authoritarianism and which ones not?

            Answering that gives a far clearer picture of potential political friends and enemies 😉

            • te reo putake 14.4.1.1.2.1

              Is it a trick question, Bill!?

              Don’t know about Snowden’s politics, but he is currently sheltering in an authoritarian country and Assange is a fan of surprise sex, so probably a wee bit of the do as I say style bastard about him, too. Hitler right, Stalin left, as we know. I think Snowden is probably the only one who might conceivably be ‘left’ but Assange is clearly some sort of libertarian, and, as most of them do when opportunity arises, likes taking an authoritarian line. Though of course it’s not just opportunity that arises with Jules, if you get my drift.

              The point is that Marx is still entirely correct about the class divide and the inevitable tendency of capital to coalesce around itself, sort of a black hole of money, sucking in everything of value including the light of understanding. Unless the working class and its allies recognise that their class interests are not shared by their masters, then we will not have control of our destiny. The bollocks about the left/right paradigm is defeatist and ignorant. But, that’s the way the 1% want it.

              • Bill

                It wasn’t a trick question.

                Snowden is a right wing libertarian, while Assange is a left wing libertarian.

                Hitler was right wing authoritarian and Stalin a left wing authoritarian.

                I guess then (and it is only a guess) that you’d have been among the millions lauding Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin et al last century even as they sent non-authoritarian leftists to the gulags and worse. (Right wing libertarianism didn’t exist back then as a political field of thought as far as I’m aware.)

                And Marx had only a partial insight to class divisions. He missed the co-ordinators – the managers if you prefer – those with a penchant for authoritarianism (wielders of, and/or faithful adherents to) who breath life into the hierarchies of our systems of production and distribution and who, on a 9 – 5 basis, help ‘teach’ workers that ‘this (servility to authority) is the way’.

                Apart from the fact that self labelled ‘right wing libertarians’ are under the delusion that markets are neutral, they exhibit far more understanding of, and appetite for, such basic ‘leftist’ values as liberty, freedom etc than many a supposed left wing liberal…and waaay more than any apologist (many still around!) for what what flowed from Lenin and the Bolsheviks’ successful defeat of the Russian Revolution.

  15. joe90 15

    Another jurisdiction does the right thing.

    Smoking, growing and owning small amounts of marijuana became legal in Alaska on Tuesday as a growing decriminalization movement reached the United States’ northwest frontier.

    Alaska, which narrowly passed the measure in November, followed Colorado and Washington among states allowing recreational use, reflecting a rapidly shifting legal landscape for the drug.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/24/us-usa-alaska-marijuana-idUSKBN0LS0ZH20150224

  16. rawshark-yeshe 16

    To think we were once the envy of the world for our compassionate social justice and welfare …

    Paula Bennett and Key are cruel beyond belief … read and weep …

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/66578463/housing-shortage-hits-young-mum-hard

    • freedom 16.1

      One aspect of that article niggles me bones. The article fails to say why rent has not been paid since October. That seems too obvious a question for the journalist – or the editor – to ignore. Call me a cynic, but could it be they want it to grow negative suspicions in the minds of the reader as to why it has not been paid?

      • rawshark-yeshe 16.1.1

        it seems to be the date her mother was removed to hospital … then her mother’s death .. fear of winz and generally overwhelmed … who knows ? but the cynic in me agrees with the cynic in you …

        and that must have been her home for her whole life .. imagine the hurt and horror of it …

        • Draco T Bastard 16.1.1.1

          and that must have been her home for her whole life

          Nope, 15 years but she’s only 26 so most of her life.

      • Draco T Bastard 16.1.2

        Yeah, that was what I was thinking. I suspect that it has something to do with the house being in her mother’s name and with her mother moving into a rest home and then dying has stuffed things up. She’s probably been trying to get things sorted but that’s not mentioned in the article.

        • rawshark-yeshe 16.1.2.1

          did you see the picture of her belongings under what looks like cardboard at the back of the house ? Shame on the Winz enforcers treating a young mother and two children like this. THERE ARE NO HOUSES ! and yes, dying has a habit of stuffing things up .. you;d think Winz might fairly know this ? Yeah ? Nah. Not under this regime.

  17. Puckish Rogue 17

    This is funny though

    “In adopting such an approach, Key was seeking to go over the heads of the media and talk directly to New Zealanders about the reasons why such a deployment is necessary without his rationale being analysed and criticised before the public had actually heard that rationale.”

    The media think that they need to be told first so they can then tell the plebs (sorry people of NZ) what to think

    • rawshark-yeshe 17.1

      is it funny ?? like really ha ha funny, or just too twisted for words funny ? what did you mean ?

      O, vole mio and all that.

    • tracey 17.2

      How do you envisage the plebs knowing about what the Govt is deciding without the media? Examples?

      • felix 17.2.1

        When Key says “talk directly to nzers” he doesn’t mean all of them of course.

        Just the important ones.

        • TheContrarian 17.2.1.1

          You still have it wrong Felix, just the ones who voted for him

          • te reo putake 17.2.1.1.1

            Voted? With their cheque books?

            • mac1 17.2.1.1.1.1

              With cheque books it’s called ‘access to minsters’ via the Cabinet Club. $25,000 entry fee. Saves having to vote, knowing that.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Its about value for money, I mean access to a Labour mp would be a packet of biscuits at the most

                • Pasupial

                  PR

                  Systematic corruption is indeed not so entrenched in the Labour caucus as in NAct’s.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    Well lets talk MPs that have been convicted of corruption then

                    I’ll start with Labour and Phillip Field, your turn

                    • McFlock

                      corruption? You mean like fraud, identity theft, of filing false returns?

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      stupid mistakes, nothing to compare to out and out corruption

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Sabin.

                      “The NBR understands that the party has known since before the 2011 election…”

                    • McFlock

                      lolright. Stupid mistakes 🙄

                      Yes, Field was corrupt. Gaining benefit from his role as an MP. He was stood down when the charges were made, and thoroughly investigated and prosecuted by the police.

                      As opposed to, say, using his role as an MP to ask questions that directly pertained to a significant share investment.

                    • framu

                      or stealing a dead babies identity. Even accepting garrets claim of doing it for a joke its way worse than a stupid mistake

                • KJT

                  Are you saying that National MP’s just cost more to buy?

                  Or that they do not need bribes while in power as they have lucrative retirement plans, in figurehead directors jobs.
                  Funding by their US corporate pay masters, when they leave Parliament.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    He seems to saying the National MPs understand the Golden Rule: He with the gold, rules.

              • Clemgeopin

                ” ‘access to minsters’ via the Cabinet Club. $25,000 entry fee”

                That is the declared open amount. God knows how much more is given under the table, hidden and unaccounted. I won’t be surprised knowing the way the rich crooks and the corrupt politicians work around many corrupt countries.

  18. ankerawshark 19

    Hi everyone,

    I feel so incensed about the whole Dong Liu donations saga and the spin about Labour and Liu, that I contacted the Press Council last night and asked them to re-consider Frank Mac’s submission to them about the Herald’s claims that Dong Liu donated $$$$ to Labour. The complaint from Frank wasn’t upheld, because the Herald maintained there was “more to come” about Liu and Labour. And of course nothing has come about Labour and Liu, but indeed we find out it was National receiving donations.

    Last night I re-submitted Frank’s complaint to the Press Council, copied a link about National’s donations and asked them to re-consider Frank’s complaint. (hope that’s o.k. Frank???? didn’t know how to contact you to get your permission);

    Much to my surprize I had an email this morning saying it would be re-presented to the council.

    I will keep you updated!

  19. Once was Tim 21

    Autralians (Tarn Yabbit and Joe Joe) just announcing changes to foreign ownership of houses and farms.
    … a register
    … a $5k application fee for houses under 1 mill
    … a 10k application fee over 1 mill
    … breaking the rules, $25k fine with the potential for confiscation
    … a claim that the rules will be strictly enforced

    (Sky News)

    • Tracey 21.1

      will 25k be a detterent or merely seen as a business cost?

      • Once was Tim 21.1.1

        probably the latter but the potential for confiscation might be a deterrent. We’ll see just how strictly the rules are enforced. I was just interested to see on Planet Key the Prime Munster still appears to be ‘comfortable’ by comparison

      • Once was Tim 21.1.2

        Correction:
        That fine is ‘… up to 25 PERCENT of the value of the property ….’

    • ianmac 22.1

      In some areas fierce fights break out when a person is wearing the wrong colours which denote a rival gang. Pretty awful that a PM indulges in gang colour sneers.

  20. ianmac 23

    ” Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has declined an invitation to meet with US Senate Democrats during his trip to Washington next week.

    “Though I greatly appreciate your kind invitation to meet with Democratic Senators, I believe that doing so at this time could compound the misperception of partisanship regarding my upcoming visit,” Netanyahu wrote in a letter to Senators Richard Durbin and Dianne Feinstein.”

    What a cheek coming from an awful chap who is so backed by the republicans. Hypocrisy?

  21. joe90 25

    Another day, another rort.

    ( heh, gold buggers can’t quite get it right)

    At least 10 banks, including Barclays Plc, JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Deutsche Bank AG, are being probed by the Justice Department’s antitrust division, said one of the people, who asked not to be identified because the matter is confidential.

    Precious metals have come under scrutiny as authorities around the world investigate allegations that other financial benchmarks have been rigged. While the Justice Department’s probe is in its early stages, the Swiss finance regulator included the issue in a November settlement with UBS Group AG over currency-rate manipulation. Switzerland’s antitrust regulator said Tuesday that it opened a preliminary probe into the possibility of price fixing in the precious-metals market.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-24/banks-said-to-face-u-s-manipulation-probe-over-metals-pricing?

  22. News I’d like to hear

    Great news that once again a person endangering lives has been stopped – this person was under the influence of ‘foreign’ and weaving all over his lies – concerned citizens confiscated Mr Key and handed him over to the police. “No comet” was the only comment Mr Key could make as he sat dejectedly in his mobile awaiting orders.

  23. ianmac 28

    2015: Mr Key is adamant that NZ will be in Iraq for no more than 2 years. Adamant! Repeated and adamant.

    2017: Mr Key says his statement about 2 years was misunderstood. He really meant that 2 years meant about 2 years and maybe as much as 10 years.

    Journalists accepted his word and applauded his resoluteness.

  24. Paul 29

    That was very convenient.
    Wonder if the charges were timed to distract from any criticism of Key the warmonger.
    Dirty Politics again.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11407862

    • dv 29.1

      Yes timing very interesting.

    • mickysavage 29.2

      I have no reason to question the charges but Carmel did the right thing by immediately telling Little’s CoS and by agreeing to stand down and Little has done the right thing by standing her down. The charges relate to her mother and she had no idea they existed until she was asked about them today. Note no attempt to hide or suppress the information unlike other cases. And it will be interesting to see how the right spin this.

      AND it would be interesting to find out how TV one found out …

    • Alpha z 29.3

      paula bennet minster for welfare, & opposit of carmel sepuloni at parlement & elections. hope this is not extra special utu from bennet for carmel. can be or not, I think yes.

  25. freedom 30

    Some contemporary kiwiland commentary from Tourettes, and it’s only a dollar
    https://tourettesone.bandcamp.com/track/john-keys-sons-a-dj

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  • Dealing with the Covid-19 Tsunami.
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  • What about renters?
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Living within our means.
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  • Transparency and the pandemic
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • ‘Overjoyed’: a leading health expert on New Zealand’s coronavirus shutdown, and the challengin...
    Michael Baker, University of Otago Overjoyed. That’s not a word epidemiologists normally use, but that’s how I felt after hearing Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s announcement about New Zealand’s COVID-19 shutdown of everything except essential services for at least four weeks from midnight on Wednesday. More than anything, I just ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • One way to solve the housing crisis
    How much homelessness is caused by house hoarding? We're about to find out. The pandemic has destroyed tourism, which means that house hoarders who put their hoarded properties up as short-term tourist rentals are now offering them on the ordinary rental market:Property investors are pulling properties from Airbnb to offer ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The pros and cons of planting trees to address global warming
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  • Not a grand coalition, but a government of national salvation
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    PunditBy Liam Hehir
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  • Raise the Bar: hospitality workers & wage subsidy entitlements
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  • Lifting our game against COVID-19
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    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
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  • The maths and ethics of minimising COVID-19 deaths in NZ
    Prof Tony Blakely, Prof Michael Baker, and Prof Nick Wilson The NZ Government must do more to clearly articulate its COVID-19 strategy: eradication or ‘flattening the curve’ mitigation. But to do so means understanding the maths and ethics of both these strategies. In this blog, we adapt our work for ...
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  • All aboard the Covid Train
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  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #12
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  • We are all socialists now
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A plea to experts: safeguard your role in public life
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    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    2 weeks ago
  • Enlightenment when?
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  • What the Crisis Can teach Us
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    2 weeks ago

  • Susan Thomas the new Chief High Court Judge
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  • Business Finance Guarantee – applications open
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • Work starts on ways to fast-track consents to boost recovery from Covid-19 downturn
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Advance payments to support contractors
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government seeks infrastructure projects
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Health system scaled up to prepare for COVID-19
    Work to scale up the health system in preparation for COVID-19 was today outlined by Health Minister David Clark, as he reported back to the new Epidemic Response Committee. “We are well placed to contain the spread of COVID-19. We have taken early and decisive action at our borders, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Essential media COVID-19 guidelines refined
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    2 days ago
  • New Zealand defence personnel conclude mission at Taji
    Following the successful conclusion of the Building Partner Capacity (BPC) mission at Taji, New Zealand defence personnel are returning to New Zealand from Iraq, in accordance with the Cabinet decision made in June 2019, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today. “New Zealand is very ...
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    2 days ago
  • State of National Emergency extended
    The State of National Emergency to help stop the spread of COVID-19 has been extended for a further seven days, Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare said. The initial declaration on March 25 lasted seven days and can be extended as many times as necessary. “Since we went into isolation ...
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    2 days ago
  • Strong Govt books support ‘go hard, go early’ response
    New Zealand’s ability to go hard and go early in the fight against COVID-19 has been underpinned by strong Government finances and the growing economy heading into this global pandemic, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. The Treasury today released the Crown financial statements for the eight months to the end ...
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    2 days ago
  • Christchurch Hospital Hagley ICU to open to support COVID-19 response
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says 36 new intensive care beds at Christchurch Hospital’s new Hagley building are being fast tracked so they are available for treatment of COVID-19 patients.   The Ministry of Health is working with contractor CPB and Canterbury DHB to enable access to the hospital’s ICU, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government supports Air NZ freight flights
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Tariff concessions on COVID-19 related products
    New Zealand will temporarily remove tariffs on all medical and hygiene imports needed for the COVID-19 response. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker and Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Kris Faafoi said today that the New Zealand Customs Service will apply tariff concessions to all diagnostic reagents and testing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Clarification of modification to wage subsidy scheme
    Minister of Finance Grant Robertson has clarified that the changes to the wage subsidy scheme announced yesterday mean that employers should be passing on the full subsidy to workers, except in the case where the person’s normal income is less than the level of the subsidy. “We still want employers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Face masks flowing to DHBs
    Medical face masks from the national reserve supply are now being distributed to District Health Boards, while at the same time local production is being ramped up. Yesterday more than 640,000 masks were sent to DHBS – that is an immediate two week supply, with more to follow in coming ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • COVID-19: Further steps to protect New Zealanders’ jobs
    The Government has made modifications to the wage subsidy scheme to ensure people don’t lose their jobs during the national lockdown. These changes will soften the impact of COVID-19 on workers, families and businesses, and position them to exit the lockdown and look to recovery, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Tax relief for Mycoplasma Bovis farmers
    Farmers whose herds were culled in response to the outbreak of Mycoplasma bovis will be able to minimise the tax treatment of their income in some circumstances. Revenue Minister Stuart Nash says Cabinet has agreed to change the law. It means farmers may be eligible to spread their income over ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • $27 million for NGOs and community groups to continue providing essential services
    A $27 million dollar package, effective immediately, is being provided to social sector services and community groups to ensure they can continue to provide essential support to communities as we stay at home as a nation to stop the spread of COVID-19, Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni announced. “At ...
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    7 days ago
  • Statement on guilty plea of March 15 terrorist
    “The guilty plea today will provide some relief to the many people whose lives were shattered by what happened on March 15,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said. “These guilty pleas and conviction bring accountability for what happened and also save the families who lost loved ones, those who were injured, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • COVID-19 updates
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    1 week ago
  • Police numbers break through 10,000 mark
    Frontline Police numbers have broken through the 10,000 mark for the first time in history as officers step forward to keep the community safe during the COVID19 lockdown. “Two Police graduations in Auckland and Wellington in the past week have been conducted in unprecedented circumstances,” Police Minister Stuart Nash said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Urgent tax measures for economic recovery
    Urgent legislation has been passed to support the package of economic and social measures needed to recover from the impact of the coronavirus outbreak. “The COVID-19 Response (Taxation and Social Assistance Urgent Measures) Bill will cushion New Zealanders from the worst economic impacts of the COVID-19 outbreak,” said Revenue Minister ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Further support for farmers and growers as drought persists
    From tomorrow, Government support for farmers and growers affected by drought will be expanded and extended across the country, with access to Rural Assistance Payments (RAPS) available throughout the North Island, parts of the South Island and the Chatham Islands, Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced. “These challenging conditions have ...
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    1 week ago
  • COVID-19: Temporary changes to Education Act
    Parliament has passed amendments to legislation that give the Secretary of Education stronger powers to act in the fight to limit the spread of COVID-19, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “They are part of a suite of changes passed under the COVID-19 Response (Urgent Management Measures) Legislation Bill,” Chris ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar join NZ and Singapore in committing to keeping supply a...
    Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar have joined forces with New Zealand and Singapore by committing to keep supply chains open and remove any existing trade restrictive measures on essential goods, especially medical supplies, in the face of the Covid-19 crisis.  Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker today welcomed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • COVID-19: Rent increase freeze and more protection for tenants
    Immediate freeze on rent increases Tenancies will not be terminated during the lock-down period, unless the parties agree, or in limited circumstances Tenants who had previously given notice can stay in their if they need to stay in the tenancy during the lock-down period Tenants will still be able to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Working together to protect businesses and workers
    As New Zealand unites to lock-down in the fight against COVID-19, the Finance Minister is urging all businesses and workers to stay connected over the next four weeks. “We understand the extreme pressure many businesses are under right now. I know most business owners think of their workers as family ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • State of National Emergency declared to fight COVID-19
    A State of National Emergency has been declared across the country as the Government pulls out all the stops to curtail the spread of COVID-19. “Today we put in place our country’s second ever State of National Emergency as we fight a global pandemic, save New Zealanders’ lives and prevent ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister’s statement on State of National Emergency and Epidemic Notice
    Mr Speaker I wish to make a Ministerial Statement under Standing Order 347 in relation to the recent declaration of a State of National Emergency. Having considered the advice of the Director Civil Defence Emergency Management, the Minister of Civil Defence declared a State of National Emergency for the whole of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Deadline for domestic travel extended
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Mortgage holiday and business finance support schemes to cushion COVID impacts
    The Government, retail banks and the Reserve Bank are today announcing a major financial support package for home owners and businesses affected by the economic impacts of COVID-19. The package will include a six month principal and interest payment holiday for mortgage holders and SME customers whose incomes have been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government working to keep air freight moving
    Minister of Transport Phil Twyford has today announced details of the Government’s support package to keep key air freight moving and ensure New Zealanders retain access to essential goods during the four-week level 4 lockdown. “The Government is working with airlines and air freight operators to ensure New Zealand’s key ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand moves to COVID-19 Alert Level 3, then Level 4 in 48 hours
    New Zealand moved up to COVID-19 Alert Level 3 – Restrict New Zealand to move up to COVID-19 Alert Level 4 – Eliminate, in 48 hours Two-staged approach to give people and businesses time to prepare  Level 3, from tomorrow Non-essential businesses must close All events and gatherings must be ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister: COVID-19 Alert Level increased
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Govt takes significant economic decisions as NZ readies for Alert Level 4 in COVID-19 fight
    The Government is announcing significant further support for the economy, workers and businesses as the country unites to prepare for Alert Level 4 in the fight against COVID-19. Cabinet today agreed to remove the cap on the Government’s wage subsidy scheme, which will inject a further $4 billion into the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Govt backs RBNZ move to support economy with lower interest rates
    The Government is backing the Reserve Bank’s latest action to support the economy by reducing longer-term interest rates, meaning lower costs for businesses and mortgage holders, and a lower currency to help our exporters. The Minister of Finance has signed a memorandum of understanding and a letter of indemnity with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government statement on commercial cooperation during COVID-19
    The Government has asked the Commerce Commission to take account of the exceptional circumstances created by COVID-19 when monitoring business behaviour in coming weeks.   “The purpose of my request to the Commerce Commission is to make sure businesses can work together in ways that will allow them to provide ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand temporarily closes diplomatic posts in Barbados and Myanmar due to COVID-19
    The New Zealand Government has temporarily closed its High Commission in Bridgetown, Barbados and its Embassy in Yangon, Myanmar due to the COVID-19 pandemic, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Due to the increasing scarcity of air links in and out of Bridgetown and Yangon, and the pressure COVID-19 is placing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Supporting Māori communities and businesses through
    Associate Health and Whānau Ora Minister Peeni Henare has today announced the Government’s plan to support Māori communities and businesses in the face of COVID-19. “Our Government’s $12.1 billion economic package will help many Māori whānau, workers and businesses, whether it’s through wage subsidies, income support and worker redeployment, or ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Guidelines for hospitality establishments released
    The Government and the hospitality industry have worked together to produce guidelines to assist with managing and reducing transmission of COVID-19, Health Minister David Clark announced today.  The guidelines developed between the Government, Hospitality New Zealand and SkyCity Entertainment Group, set out how the new restrictions on physical distancing and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago