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Open mike 25/04/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 25th, 2012 - 48 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

48 comments on “Open mike 25/04/2012 ”

  1. Bored 1

    This is neo liberalism, this is where Key and his attack dog Ryall and the rest of the Nats want to take us.

    • ianmac 1.1

      Makes us appreciate our health system, but didn’t the National Government introduce partial payment in Public Hospitals in the 90s? Seem to remember picking up my young son and being asked for dollars at the desk. Awful feeling. Imagine those in the USA, the land of plenty.

      • millsy 1.1.1

        National blew our health system apart to the point where Labour never really put it back together properly.

      • Vicky32 1.1.2

        but didn’t the National Government introduce partial payment in Public Hospitals in the 90s?

        Yes, but thankfully, it no longer applies… I remember that!

    • muzza 1.2

      Actually its nearer to this…can anyone say ECAN

      Yes we are in real trouble with the anyone whose hands are on the wheel!

  2. Morrissey 2

    Instead of giving just a hyperlink, which might well fail in the near future, why not simply reprint the article?….

    Debt Collector Is Faulted for Tough Tactics in Hospitals


    In November, Marcia Newton was shocked when she was forced to pay for her son Maxx’s ear tube surgery at Fairview Hospital even before he went into the hospital room.


    [lprent: because

    1. It violates policy and for that matter copyright.

    2. It chews up space on the screen especially for those who don’t want to read it.

    3. The NYT doesn’t remove links so that was a really dumbarse excuse.

    4. It is lazy. If you want people to read something then make an effort to explain why. If you are unwilling to make that effort then why should people make the effort to read it.

    5. So a moderator will cut it, and since you didn’t leave a link people will have to search for the article on the minimal hints that are left.

    6. Because wasting a moderators time after results in a level of irritation and we like to share that feeling.

    Banned for 4 weeks – approx 1 week for each minute that it took me to delete the comments section on an ipad screen that you left on the end of the article. ]

  3. Carol 3

    So GerrytheHut doesn’t want to have a summit where there’s a collaborative endeavour to find solutions to Christchurch’s housing problems:


    But Gerry’s reasoning is curiously worded:

    “A lot of people out there are saying someone should do something, but what we’ve demonstrated is that we’re doing more than just something, we’re getting housing into the market.”

    getting housing into the market

    So, it’s not about the people who need somewhere to live? Just about delivering some product to market? Thank-you for your concern, Gerry!

    • Jim Nald 3.1

      By the way, Gerry does not back a gathering like a summit. Surprise surprise. My inside sources tell me it would not work to Gerry’s advantage for a range of people to get together, talk and compare notes.

      The modus operandi that thrives on divisiveness, polarising issues, and selective or secretive information disclosures would not be keen on inclusive, open and probing public discussions.

  4. marsman 4

    John Key on TV last night stated that the claim the Chinese purchase of the Crafar farms would affect Fonterra is a ‘conspiracy’ by the opposition to confuse new Zealanders. Desperate isn’t he?

    • Jim Nald 4.1

      He is so busy making shit up that he will soon be dripping with them.

    • bad12 4.2

      Slippery is looking a bit tired round the eyes aint He, the lame conspiracy theory crap trotted out by our ‘Leader’ is what passes for rigorous debate in that one’s mind,

      Reminds me that I have to email His office offering to sell Him my wide range of tin-foil hats…

      • lprent 4.2.1

        How many do you have? 😈

        Have to love someone giving you the straight line..

        • bad12

          The supply is only limited by the amount of the stuff in the super-market,

          i was tho, in the spirit of ‘Finance Company’s’ everywhere hoping to secure from Him forward payment for the initial order and then to collapse the ‘Tin-Foil Hat Co’ leaving no trace of the coin anywhere…

          • freedom

            bad12, don’t fall for the tin foil hat conspiracy,
            it won’t protect you from the signal, it amplifies it!

            • felix

              Those hats are essentially just an aerial that the govt can use to read your thoughts.

              Basically don’t trust anyone who tries to sell you any kind of kitchenware at all.

    • vto 4.3

      Perhaps John Key could explain how it is a conspiracy.

      • Bob 4.3.1

        Isn’t that like trying to prove you didn’t buy something?
        How about you prove there is some basis to the claims?

    • muzza 4.4

      Someone must have got in Keys ear about use of the terminology, as he has used it in regrds to the Sky Casino, and now Crafer Farms…

      Blatantly trying to deceive using smear tactics….Still is should have many on here looking the other way, and believing what Key says!

      • bad12 4.4.1

        The media minders up on the 9th floor have been in a panic for the past couple of weeks, first having tried to involve Slippery in the debate on an ‘intellectual’ level,

        Laughably, Slippery’s attempts at bringing ‘intelligent’ debate to both the asset rip-off and the patently unlawful sale of the ex-Crafar Farms to overseas interests had Him talking with that definite childish lisp and babbling like a 4 year old in the middle of a major sugar rush,

        Having watched this display of numb-nuts proportions form the Prime Minister his advisors have in abject horror cast about within the lexicon for something that He can utter into the debate that will show Him to have ‘won’ the day for National’s ’cause’ as all that had occurred from Slippery’s descent into intellectualism had been the exposure of Him as an empty suitcase of intellectual or moral rigour,

        Hence the quick stoop by the Prime Minister’s advisers into the ‘muck’ of commentary by those from the right who appear on some web-sites using ”conspiracy theory” as their sole means of debate, in effect Slippery over the past month having blown his ‘cover-story’ as the poor Kiwi-kid who made good and came home to show the country of His birth a better way had to find the fastest means of attempting to have the faithful on message with the little ‘fairy-tale’ that is the Slippery Prime Ministers ‘back-story’,

        For Slippery tho, the damage is done,for everyone of the faithful who duly bowed to the quick change artistry of the Prime Minister in His little cameo of down home Kiwi-kid. flick, hardened vicious international money trader, and flick, back to down home Kiwi-kid and carried on as a true believer there is another who having voted for National simply for the tax cuts and the cheap shares they have been offered have had their conscience questioned by the Prime Ministers quick changes in personality…

        • Bob

          Bad12 – ‘the patently unlawful sale of the ex-Crafar Farms to overseas interests’, do some reading, I especially like the part where Chris Carter trying to stop the Whangamata waterways deal was illegal under OIO legislation (that a co-allition of the ‘left’ wrote!), but the Crafer Farms deal fits all of their criteria to the letter of the law.


          Interesting world when blinkers are removed, isn’t it?

          • Colonial Viper

            Selling NZ out is interesting to you?

          • bad12

            You appear to be writing English in Swahili, whatever it is that you are trying to aquaint me of comes across as maybe this or maybe that, perhaps you could have another try,

            PS, Sorry there are no blinkers worn here…

      • yeshe 4.4.2

        “Guvmint” by crosby textor — that’s the hollow sound of hollow men.

  5. Morrissey 5

    Lest We Forget
    Next time someone repeats the nonsense about “brave” and “decent” Australian and New Zealand troops, you might like to remind him or her of the massacre at Surafend….


    • bad12 5.1

      Indeed!!! from a family where the Grand-father we never knew served in WW1 and the father that we never knew served in WW2 we only seen the utter futility of fighting other peoples wars in other peoples countries,

      Both of them,the grand-father and the father returned to NZ after serving, but, not as whole people,

      I see NO glory,and,when will we be free…

    • Chris 5.2

      Good point that act makes all NZ and Australian troops who have served absolute dicks. 

  6. yeshe 7

    The true Fracking story and it’s both revealing and horrifying. This is an excellent work from Rolling Stone April 2012 … may it get an airing everywhere that it needs to be understood ! The corruption outlined from page one beggars belief, or is this become the norm ? Please read it.

    Brief extract from page 3 …

    “Last year, scientists at Duke University, McClendon’s alma mater, published the first rigorous, peer-reviewed study of pollution at drilling and fracking operations. Examining 60 sites in New York and Pennsylvania, they found “systematic evidence for methane contamination” in household drinking water: Water wells half a mile from drilling operations were contaminated by methane at 17 times the rate of those farther from gas developments. Although methane in water has not been studied closely as a health hazard, it can seep into houses and build up to explosive levels.

    The study caused a big stir, in part because it was the first clear evidence that fracking was contaminating drinking water, contrary to the industry’s denials. Just weeks after the study was released, the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection fined Chesapeake $1.1 million – the largest fine against an oil and gas operator in the agency’s his­tory – for contaminating 17 wells in Bradford County, including some that had been part of the Duke study.”

    Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-big-fracking-bubble-the-scam-behind-the-gas-boom-20120301#ixzz1sv8SUlAO

  7. bad12 8

    There’s a good little piece on the Granny-Herald web-site today which adds a spot of ‘flesh’ to something I was saying here the other day about the level of commitment shown by the Green Party in adhering to that Party’s ‘principles’,

    It appears that all Green MP’s,from within their own salaries buy carbon credits to off-set the carbon emissions of all their travel,

    Green co-leader Metiria Turei does the round trip from Dunedin to the Parliament and back once a week and duly pays for such carbon emissions over and above any tax’s paid via the emissions trading scheme…

    • Carol 8.1

      Well, that is good when such travel is unavoidable. But it is better to try to cut down on one’s contribution to carbon emissions as much as possible. Such emissions can contribute to irreplaceable species extinction well before the carbon off-set takes effect. And once a species is extinct, it is lost forever.

  8. muzza 9

    Money Laundering rules for the little people

    “Documents released under the Official Information Act show Justice Ministry officials believe the wording of the money-laundering offence may not meet New Zealand’s international obligations and are reviewing the “effectiveness” of the charge”

    “And unless the law is changed New Zealand will not meet its obligations under the United Nations’ Vienna Convention to fight global organised crime”

    —- UN has been setting rules for a very long time in many fronts – Move along, nothing in it!

    Money Laundering for the big boys

    ““Bank of America takes its anti-money-laundering responsibilities very seriously,”

  9. muzza 11

    Romney, chosen because he has no chance against Obama, and because there is not a word from his mouth anyone with a shred of intelligence would believe

    “Everywhere I go, Americans are tired of being tired, and many of those who are fortunate enough to have a job are working harder for less.”

    — That piece of brilliance from a billionaire, who does not like to pay show his tax records!

    Then there are the skeletons!

  10. For anyone in Dunedin interested in a debate on euthanasia:

    Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide: A Discussion We Need to Have

    Date Thursday 26 April, 2012
    Time 5.15 pm to 7.30 pm
    Venue Colquhoun Lecture Theatre, Dunedin Public Hospital

    Those speaking will be:
    Professor Sean Davison (just completed his home detention for assisting the death of his mother)
    Hon. Maryan Street (Labour MP based in Nelson and author of a new private member’s bill that would allow for some aspects of assisted suicide)
    Professor Grant Gillett of the University of Otago’s Centre for Bioethics and a leading authority on end-of-life issues
    John Kleinsman, Director of the Wellington-based Nathaniel Centre, the NZ Catholic Bioethics Centre.

  11. Bunnykinz 13

    So, it seems that the UK have some idea of how abhorrent it is that an MP would seek to intervene in political matters on behalf of a commercial entity :
    Jeremy Hunt’s involvment in BSkyB bid

    As far as I have heard, there is no evidence of him promising to introduce legislation on behalf of the Murdoch’s, or to have taken action to ensure that there were no other bidders, simply that he “ignored his commitment to MPs to act in a quasi-judicial and impartial capacity” (I would have thought his commitment actually lies with the British people, but there you go). Yet, that seems to be reason enough to call for his immediate resignation.

    Apparently David Cameron has hauled in him in to explain himself, shame there is no one to do the same to JoKey.

    [edit] Drat, I forgot about David Cameron’s promise to the Murdoch’s to cut back the BBC. Guess this makes Dav Cam’s hauling Hunt over the coals seem a little hypocritical.

  12. Jackal 14

    Dunne doctors suicide stats

    It’s despicable of Peter Dunne to try to manipulate the public concerning suicide statistics to promote the governments policies…

    • seeker 14.1

      Agreed Jackal. The sooner this thoroughly flawed man is removed from public office the better. He needs to retire and contemplate his hypocrisy and the harm he does by doing nothing but shake John Key’s hand and deeply intone woffle as though meaning something.

    • felix 14.2

      Oh dear, Pete G will be fair livid over this.

      Might even be the excuse he’s been looking for to quit UF.

    • Draco T Bastard 14.3

      Thanks for that and, yes, it is disgusting that the minister is lying and not being called on it by the MSM (although I suppose that’s normal these days – there isn’t a journalist left there).

    • Before you get too excited about this, consider several things.

      It doesn’t look like you are comparing like figures. You refer to “The Chief Coroner Judge Neil MacLean has today released the latest provisional national suicide statistics”.

      And the Herald report refers to:

      The 2009 rates have only now become available because suspected suicide cases must be investigated by the coroner, which can take up to two years.

      So you may be comparing final figures (for 2009) with interim figures to June 2011.

      I know for a fact that not all cases in the year to June 2011 where suicide was viewed as a possibility are complete, as I know of a case from October 2010 that has not yet been finalised. It has been investigated by police as possible suicide but I’ve talked to the assistant coroner and they don’t think it will be ruled as suicide.

      Also note that Dunne acknowledges the numbers are still not good and suicide needs more attention.

      And also keep in mind that legitimate trends can experience some moves against the trend.

      My only knowledge of this is what I saw in the press release a couple of days ago and Jackals claims (which at this stage have potential flaws, plus my knowledge of one relavent case. I’ve had no contact with anyone in UF about this.

      • Jackal 14.4.1

        Pete George, the figures might be provisional, with the Coroner stating “All reasonable effort has been made to ensure that the following information is accurate and current”, but there is no question that the suicide rate is increasing under National. They are the reason for the move against the previous downwards trend. For Dunne to say they are declining is a blatant lie!

  13. there is no question that the suicide rate is increasing under National.

    I am questioning that, and you have done nothing to back up your claims. You can’t compare provisional figures with final statistics.

    Can you show an upward trend in provisional figures? Over what time period?
    Can you provide any proof that National are “the reason” for a move?
    If you can show it has increasd in one year (you haven’t done that yet) that is not necessarily a move against a trend, it’s a single figure.

    • Colonial Viper 15.1

      You’re a sorry soul you are. Remember that any change which is less than 2% is likely to be just statistical noise.

      Dunne isn’t trying to make statistical noise more important than it should be is he? And why are you so finickity about “provisional” versus “final” when Dunne obviously is fine with “provisional” as good enough to make final announcements on?

    • Jackal 15.2

      Pete George, it’s annoying me that you’re making the same argument here as the one you’ve made at The Jackal.

      Can you provide any proof that National are “the reason” for a move?

      As previously stated; This link shows a high rate of suicide throughout the 90′s while National was in power. It peaked towards the end of their governance in 1998. It also shows a decline of around 20% during Labours last governance. Peter Dunne trying to say there is a decrease over the last three years is incorrect. It has increased by 5%. The real trend is that suicides go up when National is in power.

      • Pete George 15.2.1

        Those graphs suggest a peak and leveling off around 1995 and trending down from there right through to 2007. And nothing since then.

        And it proves nothing. You can’t just claim (with any credibility) that because a graph may roughly follow what you want it to say there is a direct and irrefutable correlation.

        There will be many influences and lags. Problems in puberty and as young adults are often influenced by esarly childhood.

        And there are many unanswered questions – like has reporting changed? Are suicides more or less rigorously investigated?

        And does it correlate with a peak in young male population trends? Didn’t that peak in the mid 1990s?

        • McFlock

          And it proves nothing. You can’t just claim (with any credibility) that because a graph may roughly follow what you want it to say there is a direct and irrefutable correlation.

          Um – you can. I agree that it’s bad science to apply one’s model to the data, but the correlation is simply the displayed line (i.e. increasing or maintained in the 1990s, with a much lower rate in the 2000’s). What one can’t reasonably do is claim a causal link.
          But the correlation is interesting, and of course snapping in the line:

          Suicide is more common in deprived neighbourhoods. In 2007, the age-standardised suicide death rate in the most deprived areas (NZDep2001 quintiles 3–5) was 13.3 per 100,000 population. This was significantly higher than the rate of 7.7 per 100,000 population in the least deprived areas (quintile 1). Rates of hospitalisation for intentional self-harm show a similar pattern.

          and coupling it with the varios sector reforms of the 80s and early 90s might indicate the possibility some sort of causal relationship.


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