As part of the coalition government, the Green MPs have delivered us up the Zero Carbon Act. A reading of the Act reveals that it has not one single measure to cut GHG emissions, nor any measures at all to keep to the targets set out in it.
I defy anyone to say that it does.
Setting out targets is good, but with no measures to achieve them targets are meaningless.
I could set a target to be a millionaire in ten years.
I could even set down intermediate targets, that to reach my goal I will need to meet a target of a $100,000 a year.
Sorted.
To give myself further excuse not to implement any measures to achieve my target, I could push my millionaire target out to thirty years from now, so that no one can really check whether I achieve it or not.
I defy anyone, who after reading the Zero Carbon Act was to conclude, other than that, the Zero Carbon Act is a corrupt attempt to put off doing anything about climate change in the here and now.
The political system has limits, no use putting up a bill that doesn't have support, from the electorate or coalition members
The zero carbon bill, and I agree with you , its severely limited, is an illustration of whats possible at the moment (in a time when benign dictators aren't a thing)
James did his best for cross party consensus. Don't blame him, blame the incremental nature of politics, and the resistance of dinosaurs
Get out on the street, encourage and join the kids on climate strike Fridays, build the movement for change,change your own life.
Indeed he has done. This is how politics should be done and kudos for him for achieving this. It would not have been easy.
Don't blame him, blame the incremental nature of politics, and the resistance of dinosaurs
Human social groups, at whatever scale, have a fundamental problem to solve; how to respond to the unknown, the novel and to change. When faced with strangers, or new information and ideas, we have two possible responses. One is to open up and embrace them, the other is to close off and resist them. Crucially both strategies serve a purpose.
Being open means that you get first mover advantage with fresh ideas and can react to changing circumstances more rapidly. The downside is that not all strangers are benign, some will be dangerous and threatening. And not all new ideas are good ones, most in fact will fail … some fatally.
Being closed means that you avoid these risks, and by trusting the 'tried and true' it is more likely you will survive in the short term. This is important, there is no value to investing in a better future decades in the future, if you die this winter because the crops failed. But conversely resisting all innovation and novelty also ensures failure in the long-run; failure to adapt and being out-competed by more agile neighbours.
Obviously the correct solution is some balance between the two; but how? The same person cannot easily be both open and closed at the same time. Humans appear to have evolved a fascinating way to deal with it; some of us are open, some are closed. When faced with something new, we each respond according to our temperament and then we talk about it. We socially argue the case for and against and arrive at some consensus. We try the plan out, see what works and what didn't and repeat. It's quite a smart solution.
With climate change the process got subverted when the big fossil carbon players borrowed a strategy originally devised by the tobacco companies. The basic idea was not to win the argument, but to prevent consensus from being formed by provoking the resistance of the naturally cautious among us. And us more open types attacking them only makes them more cautious and more reactionary. (This too was part of the plan.)
It was only after we went for the tobacco companies themselves, the source of the disinformation, that we reached a consensus and took effective action. The same applies here, but on a larger scale.
We can be closed to social change yet open to economic change and vice versa
We are generally a mixture of fears and conservatism, optimism ,altruism and the whole bleeding mess
The time frame, the imminence of tipping point and collapse probably means that striving for consensus in a democracy just loses us more time .
I still think, lets shift our consciousness first, away from anthrocentrism at all costs, then whatever comes after(technological fixes, new strategies )is coming from an inclusive, sustainable and happier place
“I still think, lets shift our consciousness first, away from anthrocentrism at all costs, then whatever comes after(technological fixes, new strategies )is coming from an inclusive, sustainable and happier place"”
True, but on any given issue we generally take one position at a time. Otherwise you run the risk of being perceived as 'talking out both sides of your mouth'.
The openness personality trait is highly predictive of holding to progressive or left wing political views and I'd wager most of the regulars here at TS are very open types. We have lots of different ideas and we debate them vigorously, but more closed conservative people are either rare or simply don't come here.
Yet in political terms they constitute roughly half the population, and in terms of my outline above … they serve a vital and useful purpose in the debate. Conservatives may frustrate the hell out of us, but in collective terms they usefully keep a society grounded and functioning on a day to day basis.
It's my view that progressives would achieve more if we approached them with this broader understanding and worked with their natures rather than against them. This would be inclusiveness at work, would it not?
The other thing is that putting up a bill destined to fail reminds me of a time I was writing a provisional report on a project, and drafted it "Some _____ refused to participate…". My boss pointed out that this essentially committed those non-participants to their position, and suggested the redraft "Some _____ were reluctant to participate". I learnt a lot from that boss.
The political system has limits, no use putting up a bill that doesn't have support, from the electorate or coalition members
The zero carbon bill, and I agree with you , its severely limited, is an illustration of whats possible at the moment (in a time when benign dictators aren't a thing)
James did his best for cross party consensus….
Why Consensus Stinks!
The Australian term white-anting comes from the action of termites that hollow out and empty something that looks fine on the surface.
The Zero Carbon Bill is an example, white-anting any real action on climate change, looking substantial, but completely hollowed out of any real action.
The argument made for the Zero Carbon Bill by its supporters, is that we have to seek 'Consensus' with the National Party, otherwise when they get back into power they will repeal any concrete legislation we put in place.
Apart from being a weak defeatist position, this argument is actually not proven.
The Nats never repealed the Nuclear Free Legislation. Labour have never repealed the Anadarko Amendment. Phil Goff traveled the Country in a big red bus with "Kill The Bill" (the National Government Bill to increase GST to 15%) before admitting that if he was elected he wouldn't repeal it.
Consensus is not democracy it is an attack on democracy.
As Winston Churchill famously said, Democracy is the worst of all possible systems, except for all those others that have been tried.
Democracy has been described by its detractors as the dictatorship of the majority over the minority.
This is the sound of ideologies crashing, sang Billy Bragg
Consensus is an effort to paper over these differences between ideologies.
And it fits into one of those 'worst ways' Churchill spoke of.
Consensus is not democracy.
Consensus is going for the lowest possible denominator to achieve unanimity.
Consensus is an effort to silence and stifle political debate. To suffocate the sound of ideologies clashing.
The tragedy of Consensus politics is that it robs the electorate of making a clear choice between one way forward and another.
Consensus politics prevents us hearing the arguments between both ways forward, and for making an informed decision with our vote.
Consensus politics murders democracy in back room deals between politicians.
At its core what consensus politics displays, is a lack of faith in the people.
Consensus politics is an abrogation of leadership.
I defy anyone, who after reading the Zero Carbon Act was to conclude, other than that, the Zero Carbon Act is a corrupt attempt to put off doing anything about climate change in the here and now.
Oh, fuck off. We went through this yesterday. If you don't understand why Labour/Green don't have either the numbers in Parliament or the electoral mandate to implement the policies you want to see, read up on the subject or just don't comment on it. Alleging corruption (even scummier than yesterday's accusation of cynicism) is a grotesque insult to people who had to fight hard to get even this level of legislation on the table and have shown a far greater commitment to doing something about it than you have.
If you want to see your preferred policies implemented, join one of those two parties and put in the hours and the money to help them get more MPs in Parliament. Insulting them from your armchair will just get you more "Fuck off"s.
I wonder if Shaw, Davidson and Ardern would prefer 'useless leaders' rather than 'corrupt'?
One description is acquired by simply failing to do what was promised (i.e. dealing to climate change with the same vigour and commitment as was afforded the nuclear free policy) while the other requires some forethought, planning and cooperation. One is simply passively muddling along while the other is deliberate and active.
The way I see it (from someone who bought the whole Green thing and voted accordingly, in a household where the rest largely voted Labour for the same reasons.) is that none of the above named party leaders have the heft of Winston.
A truly committed and charismatic leader would have been able to bring others along in such numbers that Winston's own caucus would have been putting pressure on him to at least meet L/G more than halfway, and the three could have all contributed to a Bill that we could have been proud of. As it is, we're left with a lilly livered and truly pathetic piece of legislation that condemns our children to a bleak future.
Restoring support services which were defunded and cut completely by the NACT government…support which was provided to many of the most at risk groups in NZ…
Support which is literally priceless…but for which proverbial pennies of funding per year (few millions)…in monetary cost to retain, restore and fund those same priceless services into the future…
Winston First is courting the rural vote and was always going to be a problem. If he can't hold those votes his party is gone. Letting the coalition fold would be a better option for him if the cost of maintaining it was to lose those votes. Where is all the criticism of NZF?
I take it as read that we all know that 'the problem' is Winston….I suspect there are NZF Members who would dearly like to participate more positively in climate change mitigation…but there's Winston….and he doesn't give a shit.
He just gets to sit at the table again, play kingmaker again, handicap real transformative policy implementation again.
His voter base are dying out.
And none too soon.
The leaders of the other two coalition parties need to do much, much better.
As for the 'rural vote', again, the generation of farmers with callous disregard for the environment are a dying breed. Many farmers now see that SSDD (literally) practices are not sustainable and change needs to be sped up. Shaw near breathlessly reassuring us that there is 'no need to reduce stock numbers' when even many farmers know there are plenty of good reasons to was just sad.
I'm not claiming to have the answers, I'm just telling it as I see it. The Zero Carbon Act is a joke if its purpose is to mitigate the effects of climate change. Only true and decisive leaders with definitive policies and messaging will effect change.
We're told repeatedly we are approaching climate change crisis…you'd never believe that going on the response from our government.
I still have no idea what it is that you would have them do. It is irrelevant what Green and Labour policy is if Winston is better off to end the coalition than support it.
Farmers are still the biggest sector opposing meaningful Climate policy. Have you not been paying attention?
Public disagreement that outlines the stumbling blocks would be a good start. Then the discourse is out in the open, and the general public get to decide for themselves who is looking out for future interests and who are looking to protect their positions.
It seems that at the moment, even those who voted for this coalition government are not permitted to critique their performance. And unfortunately criticisms are often valid, and if they are not even acknowledged and used to improve then we have a coalition government that is trending towards the arrogance and disregard of the previous.
The consequences of climate change, insecure housing, appalling child poverty, our health system and inequality do not lie in suspended animation until the next electoral term, they impact on us all now – some much more than others. My impetus as a voter for addressing these issues is not to maintain the employment status of my limited choice of politicians, but to continue to ask for change in these matters.
Politicians should not be so concerned with polling and reelection, that they don't use the opportunity they possess to start public awareness and discussion. This coalition government is not even progressing in that department.
@ solkta. This kind of dismissal is what I am talking about.
The deference shown by Shaw for the farmers concern about methane limits, is not based on science or acknowledgement of what needs to be done. If I was not aware of the issues of climate change, and was not yet informed of the immediacy of need for transition, then seeing James Shaw – leader of the Green Party – on television, downplaying these issues and congratulating this coalition government on coming to an agreement – would have a negative impact, along the lines of:
"Even the Green Party leader is not concerned about methane, or feels that a carbon-zero bill that aspires without consequence to a carbon-free 2050 goal is worth pursuing."
For those in New Zealand whose current knowledge of the issues of climate change are non-existent or slight, this will be one of their main news items on this topic. Disturbingly, it will reassure many that if even the Greens are not concerned, the status quo can continue for the foreseeable future.
Does this explain the disquiet that I share with others on this forum?
OK, how about them? The parties with those policies have 43% of the vote, ie 53 out of 120 MPs in Parliament. Please explain why you believe it would be possible for that minority of MPs to enact those policies as legislation in their entirety. And not just why it would be possible, but why it's so obviously possible that you feel free to berate the parties' leadership for failing to do it.
….Please explain why you believe it would be possible for that minority of MPs to enact those policies as legislation in their entirety. And not just why it would be possible, but why it's so obviously possible that you feel free to berate the parties' leadership for failing to do it.
Hi Psycho,
I could name half a dozen green policies that the Green MPs have refused to champion in government.
The iniquitous Anadarko Amendment to the RMA that makes it illegal to protest deep sea oil drilling. Is one of the things that the Green Party have refused to try and repeal, The law that makes it illegal to raise climate change in consent hearings for new fossil fuel projects is another piece of iniquitous piece of legislation that the Greens are happy to leave in place, for the sake of 'consensus'.
At a time when many voters have trouble telling the political parties apart, the last thing we need is more consensus between them.
Consensus muffles the sound of 'ideologies clashing' making it harder to differentiate between the parties vying for our vote.
Let's have the arguments out, let us hear them.
Consensus turns the political spectrum into one whole amorphous mass.
If all the parties have consensus on climate change why vote for the Greens? Indeed what is the need for a Green Party? We are all in agreement. We have achieved consensus.
One of the key demands of XR is for 'politicians to tell the truth about climate change' papering over the differences between political parties on this issue, is not telling the truth about climate change, it is covering up the truth about climate change.
Do you not realise that many NZF voters are National defectors who can't cope with voting Labour or Green and that if it collapses they will probably go back to National? And then we would have a National government again. This coalition government has to make many compromises, but half a loaf is better than no bread.
The various iterations of the New Zealand Election Study (2008-2014) suggest those swinging to NZF have disproportionately been former Labour voters (& – as with most smaller parties – switchers comprise a significant segment of NZF support).
What's more, NZF voters have chosen Labour as their preferred Coalition partner in 3 out of the last 4 General Elections (including overwhelmingly in 2017).
Winston First is courting the rural vote and was always going to be a problem. If he can't hold those votes his party is gone.
I'd estimate NZF received a little over 60% of its 2017 vote from both Metro & Provincial City seats. So, all things being equal, he probably only needs to hold around a third of his Rural / Small Town vote to be sure of returning.
Your estimate is meaningless until you back it up with some stats. Even if you are right that doesn't mean Winston is prepared to take the risk or have a smaller presence and say no thanks to those votes. As he straddles the centre he needs to appear to both his left and right flanks that he is protecting their interests.
that doesn't mean Winston is prepared to take the risk or have a smaller presence and say no thanks to those votes.
No, it certainly wouldn't be his aim … but I do take issue with the idea that holding / expanding his rural vote is an absolute necessity.
(2)
Your estimate is meaningless until you back it up with some stats. Your estimate is meaningless until you back it up with some stats.
Started by adding the NZF Party-Vote in all Metro (Akld / Wgtn / Chch) & Provincial City seats (ranging in city size from Gisborne (East Coast) up to the two Dunedin & two Hamilton seats).
Then (based on a rough estimation), I subtracted the likely Rural / SmallTown NZF vote in those Provincial City seats that weren't entirely urban … then added the likely Urban NZF vote from the Maori seats (as with the General Roll Provincial Centres, this was according to a broad estimation of what proportion of Maori seats were urban / rural).
Made some allowance for error within my estimation.
Then simply calculated the final result as a proportion of the entire Nationwide NZF Party-Vote in 2017.
Hence, I'd estimate NZF received somewhere between 59%-62% of its 2017 Party-Vote from both Metro & Provincial City seats.
It is possible to be very precise … but that would involve going through every single booth in the Provincial Cities … but, you know, benefits considerably less than the enormous energy invested … law of diminishing returns
(3)
As he straddles the centre he needs to appear to both his left and right flanks that he is protecting their interests.
The various iterations of the New Zealand Election Study (2008-2014) suggest:
– those swinging to NZF have disproportionately been former Labour voters (& – as with most smaller parties – switchers comprise a significant segment of NZF support). Over those 3 consecutive Elections, around two-thirds of switchers to Winston's Party came courtesy of the Left (overwhelmingly former Labour supporters … but also a small segment of former Greens) / one-third from the Right (overwhelmingly former National voters … but also a sizeable minority from ACT / Cons / Maori Party). (my calculations from raw Flow-of-the-Vote stats from the 08-14 NZES).
– NZF voting-base can best be seen as a segment of the morally-conservative Left. Most of the latter group still vote Labour, but a section swung to NZF back in the 90s, while even more have moved in Winston's direction over the last two decades. (Although they haven’t always remained particularly Loyal).
– Which, in turn, explains why (as I pointed out to JanM) NZF voters have chosen Labour as their preferred Coalition partner in 3 out of the last 4 General Elections (including overwhelmingly in 2017).
It is too easy (and convenient) to apportion the lack with Winston, as you note there must also be a willingness to prevaricate on the part of the other parties….and expressions of anger and disappointment are to be expected just as they are frequently on other topics, and rightly so otherwise everyone would have fucked off long ago
The nuclear-free legislation was enacted without any negotian needed, by a Labour government that held 56 of the 95 seats in Parliament. If the Green Party currently held 55% of the seats in Parliament, I expect the Zero Carbon Act would look very different – wouldn't you agree? But they don't hold 55% of the seats in Parliament, they hold 7%. Can you see how that might make a very big difference to their legislative ability?
Re "charismatic leadership," NZ First is a party of provincial conservatism and its fundamental principles are in some respects completely opposed to those of Labour and the Greens. Environmental policy is one of those areas. How do you picture "charismatic leadership" getting a party to go against its fundamental principles? For instance, can you picture a charismatic National leader getting the Green Party to cooperate with it on an extensive programme of privatisation?
Perhaps you should, because that's a terrible summary of events and an unrealistic belief a party not even in a coalition government can set such an agenda.
The only way to get hard green policy is to vote for more green mps.
Hard Green Policy would compromise New Zealand's national security posture. It's standard Green Party Defence policy to cut tier 1 defence assets, frigate, P8 and anything over 50cal. That these defence assets is vital in securing not only New Zealand's natural resources but that of the South Pacific as well means the Greens will not be able to pull the majority to their side.
If there were 30 green mps, they'd have plenty of leverage, and plenty of green policy. You just have to vote for them instead of whining about how useless they are.
And where do you think those extra votes would come from?
The reason being. Last election when Labour dropped to 24% and the Greens were polling at 15% Labour claimed they wouldn't look at forming a Government with Little stating Labour would need a considerably greater share of the vote to form a government. Despite (at 24%) still potentially having the numbers to form a Government.
Therefore, it seems Labour would have rather let National win than be forced to work with a stronger Green party.
Less of the goal post moving and more substance to the point.
If you want more green policy there has to be more green mps. That must be a given. Knowing this, bashing the greens for not doing enough when they don't have the numbers to force legislation is an admission of not understanding how parliament works, or an excuse to put the boot in to suit an agenda… Or both.
Once you admit there needs to be many more green mps in the house, in government, to push through green policy, then we can talk about where they come from.
I'm not bashing the Greens for not having the numbers. I'm bashing them for not using their nous and showing us what work they are actually doing to help achieve more.
I admit if the Greens had the numbers to win an election that (more green policy) would be what one would expect. However, that is highly unlikely on their current and past polling. Moreover, very unlikely on their current performance in this term.
Taking their policy is in general 'radical' for NZ, you've consistently bashed them for watering down or not getting what they sought. No cites needed, it's archived. Even in these exchanges you've bemoaned them for not achieving and doing enough to get elected in greater numbers.
That's incorrect. You've been called out. Therefore, cites are indeed needed.
Furthermore, you initially stated radical Green policy now you are shifting the goal posts by claiming that all their policy is radical. In which case you should have initially stated all Green policy. Therefore, best you stick to cites that reflect your initial assertion which is radical Green policy and not all Green policy which you are now attempting to reach for.
Additionally, me bemoaning them for not doing enough to get elected in greater numbers also doesn't prove your initial assertion.
Nope, no cites needed, as all your anti green comments are archived, as will your efforts from today will be.
If there's a mod call to find posts where you have criticised the greens for not getting that policy through unfettered, then sure I'll list some, but prepared as I am, as they are numerous and no doubt fresh in the minds of most green voters here to gain consensus for my statement, I'm sure that call won't come.
It wasn't that Labour could not work with a stronger Green Party, they had an MOU and lots of policy in common, it was more that Winston wouldn't have been able to deal with the Greens being a bigger partner.
You are as transparent as a transparent thing. A really crap troll.
Labour weren't even prepared to find that out. Therefore, their unwillingness to even have a crack at strongly it suggests it was Labour putting the kibosh on it (working with a stronger Greens).
On those numbers you gave above 24% and 15%, of course there was no way to form a government. How on 39% do you propose they had a chance?
But guaranteed, if that were even remotely possible, with that ratio, you'd have many green ministers and much more real green policy getting legislated. Fact. And you’d still moan about it.
At the time, even with nz1st, it wasn't doable on the numbers, and then if it were, what Solkta wrote above.
Yes, it was. Even Guyon was taken back at Little's/Labour's poisition.
As I said to solkta, Labour weren't even prepared to find that out.
And it was this unwillingness to even have a crack at it that strongly suggests it was Labour putting the kibosh on it (working with a stronger Greens).
It's speculative at best to assume winston would have gone with labour and the greens at that level of support for the green party and accepting a minor position as last cab off the rank, and in playing for more votes, to rule out dealing with nz1st, I can see why Little could have backtracked, but solkta's scenario seems far more plausible.
So you clearly don't know how mmp works in government, and choose to blame the small number of green mps, not even part of the formal coalition, for having to compromise and not being able to effect radical change they want to.
But your position is crap and based on a total bollocks understanding of how much a very small number of green mps can achieve under a confidence and supply arrangement.
My position is based on their dreadful performance to date. And is shared by many. Even within the Greens, they know they have been lacking the fight, made many mistakes, and have swallowed too many dead rats.
You trying to blame this on my misunderstanding is a joke.
See that's where you fall down. You don't accept that in this government they are bit players having to compromise to get anything, and the only way to change that is to have more green mps and get them in a proper coalition.
And I don’t think your misunderstanding is a joke, I think it’s quite deliberate.
Not at all. Those failures mentioned are admitted by the Greens themselves.
Without addressing their weaknesses, achieving more MPs is very unlikely. And merely securing more without addressing their weaknesses is unlikely to improve their performance.
What seems to be deliberate is your failure to see and understand this.
The weakness is they don't have the numbers to roll out their ideas without compromise 🙄
No genuine green voter is going to turn on the party because they aren't pumping out their policies ten to the dozen. They know, just like I do, that you can only do what you can with what you have.
Most greens will be encouraged to push harder in the run up to 2020 and work for the party and it’s ideals, not sit on the sidelines and cry crocodile tear laments.
I'm not denying I go the Greens. Almost everyone knows that. But I have a go at them on valid grounds. Which is why most rebuttals end up being directed at me and not the valid points I've raised.
The weakness is they don't have the numbers to roll out their ideas without compromise
Yes, most understand that. However, that's not the weaknesses I just alluded to above, which the Greens themselves largely admit. And it is these weaknesses that they require to correct to better perform, which will help grow their support and performance going forward.
You can't expect them to substantially grow their vote on their current performance – and their polling largely reflects that.
I don't expect them to be pumping out policies ten to the dozen, that's just you trying to suggest I'm some kind of extremist expecting them to perform beyond reality.
The reality is, they've made a number of costly mistakes, they lack backbone, and failed to gain fair compensation for the dead rats swallowed. Furthermore, they talk a lot about pushing hard for certain issues but show little if anything on the work being done in regards to those issues and the progress being made or setbacks faced.
noted (and taken on board) – but please note that this is in reply to A poster who seems to have lernt a new term “fuck off” and is quite happy to tell people to do so should they dare to say something he/she didn’t like.
I never said that James Shaw was corrupt. I said, (and I quote), "the Zero Carbon Act is a corrupt attempt to put off doing anything about climate change in the here and now."
Possibly a bad choice of word, I could have said is a 'corrupted attempt'. It is corrupted by the very nature of the process.
James Shaw is trying to solve a political problem, by bureaucratic means. A political problem cannot be solved with bureaucratic means. This just cannot work.
The problem; National Party’s intransigence over climate change. This political problem cannot be solved by pandering to National. In my opinion National's intransigence over climate change must be confronted openly and publicly denounced and demolished, it’s called politics.
History shows that a leader convinced of the rightness of their cause and with the confidence to get up and openly and courageously fight for it, can win over a majority from a minority position.
It's called leadership.
And it does not depend on the size of your majority (or lack of) in the house.
In prewar England the wealthy class and their political representatives, the Conservative Party were riddled with fascist appeasers and fifth columnists and even open fascist sympathisers. Churchill who had been elected into the house as a sole 'independent' MP for his Constitutionalist Party, (You couldn't get a more minority position), did not try to make peace with these appeasers, from his seat in the back benches, he denounced them at every opportunity.
The rest is history.
Another example is over the debate over nuclear ship visits. The Labour Party from the opposition benches through the strength of their argument was able to win over the majority of parliament to support a minority private members bill to ban nuclear ships. Which two National MPs crossed the floor to support.
Again, the rest is history.
This is how political differences are fought out.
In my opinion, in trying to seek common ground with the National Party, James Shaw has not just given up on politics, he has given up on leadership.
Problem is your “How you get there antidote” is about as deep as a puddle on practicality and as a workable solution Are you a secondary school student
Bewildered doesn't attempt a practical answer to anything because '"Everything may be done, but nothing should be done for the first time'. Yes Minister. e&oe
Randomised controlled trials – comparing one action to a different action – are the obvious and proven way to work out how to do things better. Yet somehow, when it comes to some fields, large numbers apparently believe it's immoral to conduct RCTs. WTF?
This makes me curious enough to want to do a small study on how The Standard community interprets data from studies.
Imagine tribbles escape from the South England Spaceport, and their expanding population is nearing womble habitats. The Society for Womble Protection are concerned that wombles sharing their habitat with tribbles will adversely affect them, so they run a trial putting wombles and tribbles together sharing the same spaces.
Wombles are well studied, there are 80 independent tests, measurements etc that are done to measure womble well-being. As is common, p<0.05 is adopted as the significance level for reporting a result suggesting adverse effects (less than 1/20 probability of the observed result happening by chance).
The SWP study checked all 80 markers, and reported they observed the test wombles had more nugs on their nagunoids than normal, and elevated miasmia levels.
These results were of concern to three other groups, who then repeated the study as closely as possible. None observed increased numbers of nugs or increased miasmia, but one group found depressed motivon levels, the second group observed increased hyperchitinism, the third group observed increased thyromia activity and decreased collaberism.
So all up, four groups each studied studied the 80 possible indicators of decreased womble well-being, and there were 6 results suggesting adverse effects outside the normal range.
I'm curious what first impressions The Standard participants get from these results, and what next steps readers think should be taken. Such as, OMG, six demonstrated risks, tribbles must be immediately contained then eradicated to protect wombles. Or, meh, the data looks all good for the wombles to me. Or, the four studies show conflicting results, we need to do more studies. Or, whatever else you come up with.
My first instinctive reaction is that our old friend Bayes is lurking within this data somewhere, but I lacked a justifiable prior to make a case.
Assuming that each of the four studies reported their adverse findings at a p<0.05 level, then the next obvious question is why did all four find significant adverse outcomes, but all found different ones? Clearly like many sociological results we're suffering from a bad lack of replicability here.
On this basis I would conclude that our four studies suggest there something going on, after all none of them found no adverse effect, so they don't support the null hypothesis (ie no adverse effect at all) … but neither do they prove one. We're really no better off than if the studies had not been done at all.
But because we have only one population of wombles, and apparently isolating one randomised, unbiased sample of them from trimbles is not possible … then the gold standard of RCT's looks impossible to implement.
I'm curious to know if there is a way around this problem.
I tried really hard to set it up so that if Bayes came sniffing around I could tell him to fuck right off, it's none of his business.
As far as the randomised controlled trials part of it goes, imagine it has been previously established that wombles suffer no ill-effects from being confined to enclosures by themselves. And that it has been previously established that there are some other critters that wombles can co-exist with in enclosures without suffering ill-effects, while there's some other critters that do cause ill-effects when enclosed with wombles.
I'm getting the impression your base position is that natural systems are so complex that trials inherently oversimplify things and can therefore never produce reliable data. Is that close to being a fair interpretation of your view?
In the case of mammals the size of wobbles, yes. If your scenario revolved around say, bacteria, then there's more chance of a valid result. Wombles are sentient beings, so they may conspire to mislead you; have you taken that into account
Thanks, that covers the question I had in mind at the start of this thread.
But given your position as a councillor that may be called on to make some kind of call on whether to accept or reject something new and how to regulate it, I'm still curious about how you view the numbers. Imagine it was something simple and controlled enough you were comfortable that controlled trials produced useful valid results.
Say, allowing autonomous delivery vehicles to replace posties and couriers.
So of 80 factors examining previous areas where autonomous deliveries were allowed, the first study found increased unemployment, and more cats getting scared away from their homes (p<0.05). The subsequent three studies did not find increased unemployment or more cats going missing. One study found more complaints of residents' driveways getting blocked by the new autonomous vehicles than used to be blocked by human drivers, one study found more problems with junk mail littering the streets, one study found more complaints of misdelivered mail and more complaints of bored dogs barking because posties didn't stop and play with them anymore (ok, I'm reaching).
Do you think these four studies show allowing autonomous delivery vehicles will cause increased problems? What next steps would you want to take?
Really, really sorry for butting in but no way do we want to take humans totally out of the loop. Eisenhower when he coined the term Militray Industrial Complex was warning of the profit motive of war.
Ron Mark Minster of Defence dosnt want full autonomous war fighting. Could you imagine a war fought with all drones. War between drones dosnt have to stop.
So these guys pushing drone technology are flooding the private sector and making up the worlds boardrooms and it's them pushing full autonomous networks for profit and well, we have to be conscious of the military applications at the same time.
At the same time Weaponising drones isn't something that's in New Zealand's control. We've got China and America vying for technological supremacy and apart of that will eventually spill over into robot wars. So there's this double wade sword again of progress and innovation or not being able to keep pace with innovation.
Perhaps we we should be asking whether or not an autonomous network should be privately owned or publicly owned.
It's not just ownership that would be an issue. Companies have personhood. So these robots wouldn't just have the same rights as humans they would have extra rights, for one they don't pay taxes. We can't eat robots so can't hunt them. They will be competing for the same resources and jobs as humans but we won't be able to attack them like an animal because they will have the same rights as a company would have. So no, I don't think auto networks should be privately owned. Whether or not it is a mature technology does not preclude a future government from regulating the industry. Laws lag notoriously far behind tech innovations anyway.
Yes quite. And that is also relevant to the discussion…
Robots however are only one component of a discussion around automation
Private automation co-exists with public automation…
Public or private as a legal construct won't alter that human beings are not in control of present day automation…
And therefore…can't be in control of future automation…
I get you were referencing <em>warfare…</em>
I'm referencing the entirity of automation…which includes human beings as a component of the processes…processes which are rendering our speicies…irrelevant.
Yeah, we killed God when she gave birth to us and AI will kill us when we birth AI. My only hope is transcendencing by uploading my consciousness into a computer. It's the closest humans can possibly get to God like, all knowing and that.
We are just entering the 4th industrial revolution of AI. We don't even know what technologies are installed for humanity but if competition for resources can be controlled by making technology so cheap, technology doesn’t have to be free, just so cheap every one can participate.
It is? I haven't heard of an autonomous network that actually exists. Which one are you referring to, and what's the basis for your belief that it's no longer controllable by humans?
Well I understood what onesies said. To mean a technological paradigm shift. Arguably paradigm shifts are out of the control of humans.
While this may be the inevitable long-term future of society, I see this as nothing but an extremely bad idea.
Then again, I have objections to anything even remotely like Pornhub meets Startrek holodedks the PG version (to hell with centralization), so I'm unfairly biased.
When considering the scientific approach to everything and putting rationality and practicality (apparent) as first and foremost in decision making, I recall the opinion of Aldous Huxley expressed to George Orwell on his book '1984', that the demand for efficiency will ruin our civilisation.
Aldous Huxley – …May I speak instead of the thing with which the book deals — the ultimate revolution? The first hints of a philosophy of the ultimate revolution — the revolution which lies beyond politics and economics, and which aims at total subversion of the individual's psychology and physiology…
My own belief is that the ruling oligarchy will find less arduous and wasteful ways of governing and of satisfying its lust for power…can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging and kicking them into obedience. In other words, I feel that the nightmare of Nineteen Eighty-Four is destined to modulate into the nightmare of a world having more resemblance to that which I imagined in Brave New World.
The change will be brought about as a result of a felt need for increased efficiency.
So while Random Controlled Trials and other scientific methods are useful in making decisions, the question remains as to which decisions, and who or what do they serve? Is it 'good and cost-efficient government, respectful of the wellbeing of all people and thinking of all sentient and other living things of the earth – now realised as so important ie fungi in the soil? Or is it serving some obsessive need of a group who have divorced themselves from everyday simple living which is all that is needed by human society?
"Do you think these four studies show allowing autonomous delivery vehicles will cause increased problems? "
Each of them shows an increased problem. None were supported by any other study. Overall, no valid statement about increased problems can be made based on those studies, imo.
What next steps would you want to take?"
Introduce the vehicles. Field complaints, compiling data until causation is established, adjust their use until a happy medium, agreed to by most, is reached. It's rough, but hey, why not take a punt
Actually, I'd want to debate the issue with my fellow councillors, hear from our expert staff , hear from the promoters/designers of the technology, invite comment from other councils using the vehicles, then petition the public for their views.
Thanks. FWIW, it's at the better end of what I might hope for from an elected official.
I'm curious, is that response informed by any further education in formal statistics beyond what you had to do in high school, or is it the outcome of a lifetime of trying different things to see what happens?
Well, as a councillor, I follow process when it comes to such decisions but as well I try to influence what gets considered in less formal forums involving councillors and staff.
My first thought when faced with ambiguous data is to ask if Mr Bayes is at work here, but I'll take it as read that this isn't the case here.
The core problem is the lack of replicability. All four studies found statistically significant adverse effects but not the same ones. Not even an overlap.
The next place to look is given there are 80 possible adverse effects we could find, and our definition of 'statistical significant' is a 1/20 probability on each one … what is the probability that we will find at least some adverse effects just by random chance?
At the risk of embarrassing my rusty stats, my first wild arse guess that it could be 20/80 or 1 in 4. Or another way of putting it, any given study will find on average 4 different adverse effects purely by chance.
Ok, since we're both engineers and our reasoning heads down similar paths, can I ask you to pause it here for a while to see what other people's reactions are, untainted by what we've got to say?
"so they run a trial putting wombles and tribbles together sharing the same spaces."
I need to know more about these trials; how closely do the conditions reflect the real-world situation; laboratory conditions need to be very carefully set and results looked at cautiously. Wombles in particular act quite differently when removed from the commons.
See my response to RL at 2.1.1. In short, imagine it has already been established that results from putting wombles in enclosures produces valid results.
My initial reaction would be that, if different people are repeating the same study as closely as possible and each getting a different result, the study isn't telling us anything useful. The method would need some pretty serious review at that point.
Well, where I'm going with this is trying to show that a claimed statistically significant result is actually much less reliable than you might think from the claimed p value. For this example, I'm trying to show that six reported statistically significant results doesn't show there's likely problems, and in fact is more likely to show the opposite on further analysis.
After all, even if the researchers act with perfect integrity using sound methods, publish all their results including all the negative and neutral results, if what's considered statistically significant is p<0.05, then 1 in 20 of all results are just plain wrong.
But when you add in publication bias (negative and neutral results are boring so nobody tries to publish them), and the way it's so very tempting to indulge in data-dredging and p-hacking when you've got a massive pile of data, it's no wonder there's a replication crisis.
Noting your question of Robert Guyton above, "is that response informed by any further education in formal statistics beyond what you had to do in high school," I can boast a C+ achieved in a remedial intro stats course aimed at first-year students who were going to need to understand stats but hadn't done well at it in school (at which point I decided the arts and humanities were going to be a more appropriate arena for my clearly limited talents). So yes, definitely not qualified to be making confident assertions about anything involving statistics.
That said, the ordinary old arts and humanities have given me enough of an education to figure out that it's completely dishonest to comb academic journals for that one line or bad result that supports your irrational beliefs and trumpet the cherry-picked fruits of your search as compelling evidence that irrationalism rules – which I think is where you were also going with this.
That question wasn't intended as an assertion of superiority accruing to those with paper quals; a bullshit detector developed from a lifetime of observation is often more useful in arriving at a sensible position when faced with unclear or even contradictory data. Then there's the problem of paper quals getting pressed into the service of baffling with bullshit, rather than trying to aid understanding.
Looking at the responses, common themes are questioning the methodology of the studies, and raising potential external factors not considered by the studies. Here I'm trying to raise awareness that a lot of what are presented as meaningful results are in fact just cherry-picked instances of random noise that are going to happen even in well-designed honestly conducted studies.
That question wasn't intended as an assertion of superiority accruing to those with paper quals…
I certainly didn't take it that way, just as an opportunity to make clear that any comments I make on social science studies are definitely not based on my expertise in the field of statistics.
These days I kind of wish I'd paid more attention back then because it would come in handy very often, given all the news stories about "new study shows X" that make my bullshit detector clang away but I don't have enough knowledge to go look at the actual study to see where the grift is.
My first impression was why did you link to the pop vox article and not the original one?
Original article: "morally problematic"
Vox: "We even use A/B tests here at Vox. If I have two headlines I really love for a story, I can arrange for different viewers to see different ones — and then I can settle on the one that’s engaging more readers."
Ta daaaa!
Vox headline: "A shocking share of the public thinks randomized trials are immoral"
As for the scenario you present, and being rubbish at stats, my first impression is that we may need to go back to basics and do some RCTs on Womble well-being measurements if four different groups can get very different results. An RCT based on suspect methodology is going to be suspect.
Sorry I'm a bit slow addressing why I linked the Vox piece rather than the original study. The original study report is a bit dry and tl;dr-ish; the Vox piece is quite a lot more readable and links to the original report for anyone that wants. The Vox piece also usefully points to further implications and questions to ponder.
1) What were the size of the RCT? Which gives the related question – what were the power of the hypothesis tests?
2) There needs to be context here. What is the value of the wombles and tribbles? Are wombles native so deserving greater protection? What are the possible unintended consequences? Is the eco-balance between wombles and shelats destroyed as the sehlat population explodes because of the extra tribble food?
Just to add extra factors. What about a different type of thinking? Are the automated vehicles needed? Are they better from APOV than at present? Is capital expenditure on them justified whether public or private – being that they will likely have to be imported?
Is it justified for us to have a permissive society of the type that says that society has to definitely opt out if business or whoever,can just opt in? Will Uber try and take over this initiative and muck it up for any former investors, start-ups?
Say compare the rules of the sex- controlled society to the society that is entirely permissive of new innovations of machines and technology? Would it be better to swap so that we are controlling of this new innovative acceptance of machines, and more permissive of sexuality? I think of the raunchy, rude meaning behind the Beatles song "Why don't we do it in the road"? Sex in the road is regarded as bad because society says so, and it is impractical anyway. But new technology on the road is accepted whether it has entirely practical uses without question, and of course it is now being forced on us on the footpath.
These perspectives would never be considered by engineers. And it indicates how slow we are to understand the great changes being forced on us. These will affect our human lives to becoming subservient to the machines that business corporates, a machine-like management system itself, forces on us. And that we people embrace, because – new, because it is 'better', because they are ubiquitous – better lie down and let machines and machine-thinking roll over you.
Douglas Adams looked at that inevitably approach – the taking of personal assets and commons by authority – when he had Arthur Dent lie in front of roadmaking machines that were going to bulldoze his house so a Council-endorsed road go pass over the land. And slyly, he introduced the method of substitution that is at the base of using derivatives in financial transactions. But that is another matter.
Thank you to everybody that engaged with the actual topic. But I gotta say I'm disappointed that there are some commenters active today that are in the habit of opining definitively and loudly on topics where an understanding of data and statistics is crucial, who have chosen not to engage.
Personally when I need to understand data sets, one of the first things I look for is the underlying natural background incidence of what I'm interested in. Together with some kind of expectation (cue Tommy Bayes asking why I told him to fuck off) of how genuinely significant results might be distinguished from random noise.
In the specific case of examining 80 independent distributions of samples for comparison to controls or a baseline at p<0.05 considered significant, I would actually expect an average of 4 "false positive" results, or 16 "false positives" on average from running 4 lots of 80. The fact that none of the positives from any one of the trials were repeated in any of other trials suggests they are all false positives.
That there were far fewer "positive" results than would be expected from purely random statistical considerations immediately raises the question of whether there is an effect going in the opposite direction to what was originally expected. Might the data actually show that cohabiting with tribbles actually improves wombles' well-being? That would be an immediate quick bit of number-crunching to run, and on the numbers I've used for this made-up scenario, I'd strongly expect that answer to be yes, it certainly appears cohabiting with tribbles is in fact beneficial to wombles.
Then there's the question of doing some kind of meta-analysis, where you combine the results from different studies to try to firm up any conclusions. In this fictional scenario it should be easy, there were four trials, three of them attempting to replicate the first as closely as possible. With any luck, the trial conditions would turn out to be close enough that the data from the different trials could just be combined together to just make a much larger sample size. If that's not feasible, there's all kinds of statistical tests (a lot of them Bayesian) comparing the results of the different trials against each other.
Sorry, Andre, I got a little side-tracked elsewhere …
A very interesting topic. At no stage did you mention effect-size!?
As you are aware, P<0.05 has become somewhat of a curse, especially in biomedical science. For one, it says absolutely nothing about clinical relevance.
TBH, I kinda figured you and some others likely to have significant statistics knowledge saw where I was likely trying to go with this and deliberately stayed out to let it run its course.
The only tweak on that would be if there were some underlying common cause in several of those observations – e.g. motivon, miasma, and nug incidence were all part of the womble's precosian system and might point to a assininus deficiency. Then it might be worth a closer look.
But the main priority would be to 1080 the heck out of southern England to stop the invasive species outbreak.
“This is not the age of reason, this is the age of flummery, and the day of the devious approach. Reason’s gone into the backrooms where it works to devise means by which people can be induced to emote in the desired direction.”
I get nervous about ideas like "the correct answer" when looking for statistical signals in noisy data. To me there's only stronger and weaker suggestions and probabilities and interpretations. All to be monitored on an ongoing basis and subject to revision on receipt of new data.
The US military has opened a twitter post to let sevicepeople express their positive service experience. Only most talk of depression, lost limbs and other serious health issues and los and lots of suicide. The overwhelming trend is heartbreaking loss and anger and violence…
We in New Zealand are shamefully slow in electrifying transport. We could and should be matching China's example, where many cities have a 100% electric urban bus fleet. Rubbish trucks, concrete trucks, delivery vans, basically anything with a stop-start urban work cycle is an absolute natural for electrification.
When it comes to smaller electric vehicles, China is yet again waaay ahead of the rest of the world. Last time I saw a breakdown of the global EV market, more than half the EVs sold worldwide were in China.
I'd guess it's that tolerance of very high charging rates that make them attractive to bus applications.
Which kinda makes me curious how really high power charging stations and their power connections work together – whether they just have a super grunty network connection and rely on the grid to absorb the massive rapid fluctuations in demand or whether the charging stations themselves incorporate batteries and/or supercapacitors to smooth their demand.
Tesla new battery is really just another new design for a solid-state lithium battery that several different places have worked on. The solid state lithium battery is coming one way or another, at the moment we're just trying to figure out who has the best design for the industry to go with, and which one will be the easiest to transition to from lithium ion. Electric powertrain designs are coming to trucks and buses. Question is will people stop buying electric cars.
I've been contemplating reforming a touring company… Electric vehicles, in NZ at least, are a bit naff. Unless I have 100k for a Tesla I can't get anything with decent range, not even to cover only the top half of the North Island. The recharge times are prohibitive for taking others on the road too, the fast charge stations…? It seems the cars here can't charge so well as the charging stations aren't very good? There was nothing to suggest I'd get < several hours to wait to recharge and extend range past 200 miles.
All in all it was a discouraging experience trying to build a green touring model. Trains etc are hopeless I have sound gear to cart around.
Back in the day the government bought rolling stock for trains that could only go half as fast as the engines – making trucks look faster. Is the same trick of light being used on chargers to make EV's unattractive, or are they shit?
Nolan Brewer has been sentenced in an act of vandalism against a synagogue, but court documents are starting to reveal some incredible information.https://t.co/CbBhsz52y7
— Emily of the State (@EmilyGorcenski) May 25, 2019
[…]
Nolan was arrested along with someone who was then reported as a minor. Court documents now reveal it was his then 17-year old wife, Kiyomi, who spent a lot of time in Discord. I wonder what her Discord name was.
[…]
HOLY SHIT.
The defense names BEN SHAPIRO as a motivation for Kiyomi's radical right wing views.
I'm losing track of how many violent white supremacists @benshapiro has helped radicalize.
Thats just a stupid way to communicate. You and Joe90 are debating in bad faith, half truths and fallacious arguments to prove that Jew+RWNJ=Auschwitz.
Its not just stupid calling normal people racist against there own people its villainous. All you are doing is claiming victim status so you can control people and I won't play that bullshit game. Villains use subterfuge and lie to control and I'm not trying to be like that.
Who called Shapiro racist? You sound awfully defensive. Also how am I claiming to be a victim? I’m merely pointing out the type of things Shapiro says. It is the racists that say they’re inspired by him. You’re misrepresenting what’s being said with half-truths and imaginary “fallacious arguments”.
All you are doing is claiming victim status so you can control people and I won’t play that bullshit game. Villains use subterfuge and lie to control and I’m not trying to be like that
You’re not trying to express yourself clearly either.
You are not only playing the victim, youre shit at communicating, you're blaming me for your stupid arguments and again, making out like I'm deficient.
So if you can please provide quotes that Shapiro is rascist against Jews.
Joe90 produced this quote "The defense names BEN SHAPIRO as a motivation for Kiyomi's radical right wing views.
I'm losing track of how many violent white supremacists @benshapiro has helped radicalize."
To which I ask if Joe90 was aware Shapiro is Jewish. It's idiotic to imply that Shapiro is in anyway way involved in rascist attacks against Jews. And Joe90 just shat all over you and took off.
Arkie. I'm finding it difficult to believe that Sam is a sincere person. He expresses himself (herself/itself) in a manner that "sounds" more like an algorithm that a person's genuine views. The modus operandi Sam uses is to make a claim, then lace further replies with insults, cryptically delivered, in order to mask the insincerity of his position and making it impossible to hold him to account for his claims. It feels more like an experiment in creating a "debating programme" than a discussion with a flesh and bone human, in my opinion.
Appeals to the audience doesn't influence the strength of your argument or position. It just goes to show how insecure and weak your ideological reasoning is. We are discussing whether or not it's cool to claim Ben Shapiro is rascist against Jews, got anything to add?
It's likely that my observations about your hypocrisy and inconsistency are accurate and you are employing your trademark caustic strategy in an attempt to dis-hearten your perceived adversary.
I reserve the right to disrespect anyone who can not have a simple conversation. As I keep saying my position is that Jew+RWNJ does not equal Aushwitz. What’s your position Rob?
You may be debating the issue, " that Jew+RWNJ does not equal Aushwitz." but I am not. As I clearly expressed, I'm making comment on your incongruous claims around debating, a discussion that began on another thread, yesterday. This is Open Mike, where a range of topics can be addressed. You have declined to address my claims while at the same times lacing your responses with a variety of put-downs. Regarding your claimed " right to disrespect anyone who can not have a simple conversation.", I presume you are referring to me, and if that's the case, cannot agree that I am unable "to have a simple conversation", in fact, I'm confident that having simple conversations is something I regularly and successfully do. Your "conversations" as evidenced here on TS, are so convoluted, infolded and obscure and caustic that it seems to me you should disrespect yourself, based on your performance so far. Kindly meant and simple expressed of course.
Yeah, I don't just reserve the right to call you a whingy little puss bag, I'll talk smack to any one who try's to act a fool. You, mods, anyone.
Once I feel that my arguments are as strong as and people begin to take the bitch route around instead of taking on my arguments directly I'll just let fire. Sorry not sorry.
TBH Iv got very little idea what you're on about talking about something I said a couple days ago.
Besides that if I do argue the flaws of IQ it would be that IQ tests are frequently used to test army recruits to see if they can gain a few extra meters than Vietnam vets.
On the other hand if I was to argue for IQ testing then I'd argue that testing is best used for high achieving Uni students rather than soilders.
And that you're still to respond to my claim that your claim is hypocritical. So, worthwhile persisting, despite your determined avoidance strategy. At this point, I've lost interest and have more useful things to do, so, see you in the soup, or, in the likely case that Incognito sends you to Coventry, see ya, Sam.
My point is you, Joe and arkie have a problem with Ben Shapiro because he is a conservative and you are biased against him and seek to unjustly smear him as a rascist.
And my problem is you make me and the rest of the left look like fucken chumps.
How convenient for Shapiro that you have absolved him of inspiring racists.
It is my position that a self-identifying racist vandal says they were radicalised by Shapiro. That's less of a position, more a response to your defense of Shapiro based on his religious identity.
Its not convenient at all. In fact it's inconvenient that I am forced to defend Shapiro from a bunch of morons masquerading as lefties trying to smear Shapiro.
I couldn't prove that Shapiro is rascist towards Jews because I believe that Shapiro is a practitioner of the faith. It's also covered in freedom of religion legislation so unless your can prove Shapiro has committed an act of violence or supported an act of violence then you're just a (insert what ever hurts your feelings the most here)
Back in 2007-08 I watched an episode of Law and Order (the courtroom drama) that had a man who murdered a black girl defending himself by saying that the rants of a right wing shock jock whipped him into such a frenzy that he ended up killing her.
Bigtree wore a universal symbol of oppression, hate, and suffering, in an effort to portray himself and his halfwitted followers as victims. Fucking scum.
I don't think you understood what was and still is going on , around that specific issue…do you?
You should be able to explain what you reckon was, and still is going on there…and therefore you understand why you are absolutely wrong to call Bigtree, scum
…but you don’t understand…do you?
Which says you are using the jewish faith to peddle your own ignorance… and I’ll request that you either stop propagating such ignorant and warped views…or at least spend some time learning what is actually going on…before you USE the jewish communities once again…
Because that is what you appear to be doing…using the jewish community …
Are you jewish or direct descendant ?
I'll get you started….fill in the blanks…
Orthodox jewish communities in NY were and are being discriminated against through use of [ ] and/or [ ] for adhering to their right to religion….
Bigtree was illustrating his distain for those who are repeating the past by persecuting those same orthodox jewish communities…
Do take your relentlessly determined dishonesty and shove it.
Instrumentalizing the fate of Jews who were persecuted by hateful antisemitic ideology and murdered in extermination camps like #Auschwitz with poisonous gas in order to argue against vaccination that saves human lives is a symptom of intellectual and moral degeneration.
Leaving the inbuilt and ingrained prejudice aside, gives best opportunity to obtain objectivity…
Then it is simply a question of investing the necessary time to explore all available angles of a subject…not superficially…. as well as seek out the intersections where there is cross over into related topical pathways…
"There was pain on both sides." Noelle McCarthy displays her ignorance of New Zealand history
RNZ National, Saturday 25 May 2019
Anybody who cares about the terrible state of our public broadcasting service will be able to point to one or more really sickening or substandard performances by the people entrusted—and paid good money—to ask intelligent questions on our behalf. I have over more than a decade recorded dozens of disastrous performances, but here are three of the worst interviews that have polluted our airwaves in this century: an under-prepared Kim Hill foolishly reading out Pentagon talking points to, of all people, John Pilger in 2003 [1]; Noelle McCarthy in 2013 allowing a right wing ideologue to excuse the use of torture by U.S. troops [2]; a baffled Jesse Mulligan opining learnedly in 2016 that Russia is "L-L-L-L-LOOKIN' for trouble" [3].
Yesterday morning, we were treated to—actually, inflicted with—not just one, but two really terrible interviews. Both of them were carried out by one Noelle McCarthy.
After the 9 o'clock news, McCarthy's guest was historian Vincent O'Malley. This was well worth listening to when he was speaking; unfortunately, however, McCarthy felt compelled to interpose her own complacent, prejudiced and slanted views. Her comments, as usual, were callow, ill thought out and deeply reactionary, the sort of thing you'd expect from some drooling old Pakeha farmer ranting in the lounge bar in a south Taranaki pub.
"There was pain on both sides…. Can we learn from the way the Americans do it with their Civil War sites?…. politicization of history…. In Ireland the IRA glommed on to various commemorations."
After the 11 o'clock news, she moved from complacent and ignorant to plain nasty. The topic, ominously for anyone who has heard her laughing about the plight of the Palestinians, was Gaza.
Sorry about that, Incognito. I've already deleted the second one, and replaced it with something to show that I do appreciate Ms McCarthy when she is on form.
I wonder how many people bother to check the accuracy of the numbers they use in a debate before making claims that depend on the accuracy of their quotes?
There was a brief letter in the "To the point" section in yesterday's Dom/Post. I can't locate it on-line but it was on page C6 for anyone who wants to see it. It was from someone named Carole who was complaining that teachers were not happy with their pay claim and then she made a claim that is simply in the realm of fantasy. The sentence read "What is even surer is that with the Prime Minister's salary more than tripling in the past few years, the Government will never be disappointed". I take this to be a claim that the Government has paid much larger pay increases to itself than they have offered the teachers.
It seemed rather unlikely to me so I looked at the numbers. Exactly what she means by a "few" is not stated but I will allow it to be 9 years. It can't really be more than that can it?
On today's date in 2010 the PM was paid $393,000. Today the PM is paid $471,049.
And Carole seems to think that this increase, which is in fact 19.86% over what I would regard is somewhat more than a "few" years, is a 300% rise? How can she possibly come to that conclusion? It might be a very large pay packet but it hardly means that MPs cash in while Teachers miss out. does it?
I can see that Sam is being allowed to run free. If the dog is not going to be put on a leash, and be sent to puppy school and so absent for a while, then I Postman Pat will not be delivering any more missives. I apparently am not appreciated so will attend to important personal requirements.
Of course they're going to war. The armageddon-obsessed theocrats are determined to fulfill their end times fantasy.
West Point, N.Y. — Vice President Mike Pence told the most diverse graduating class in the history of the U.S. Military Academy on Saturday that the world is "a dangerous place" and they should expect to see combat. "Some of you will join the fight against radical Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq," he said.
Pence congratulated the West Point graduates on behalf of President Trump, and told them, "As you accept the mantle of leadership I promise you, your commander in chief will always have your back. Mr. Trump is the best friend the men and women of our armed forces will ever have."
The week prior the French assembled for the two soldiers killed in Burksina Faso.
Very moving ceremony with the historical music Marche des soldats de Robert Bruce (which was played by Joan of Arcs scottish soldiers on entering Orleans)
However, even that branch of the PUA tree is wilting away. Many "self-help" style PUA forums like Nextasf and RSDnation are shutting down or have already shut down. In March, Chateau Heartiste, a batshit crazy PUA turned White Nationalist/Alt-Right blog was shut down by WordPress. This week, rape advocate Roosh V (whom you may recall once called yours truly a "Wonkette typist/clown face, would not bang") announced that he was renouncing his PUA ways and devoting himself to Jesus. He explained to the forum he manages that he would no longer be allowing anyone to discuss premarital "fornication."
NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
Due to my recent turn to faith, my sense of morality is becoming based on the Bible. I've stopped a lot of behaviors that I've used to do and am in the process of making other changes. I've also realized that the majority of my published materials and online platforms lead men into sin or enable them to partake in sin. I no longer want this to occur, so I am implementing two new rules on the forum that are effective on June 1, 2019.
Young people transitioning from state care to independence will no longer be cut off from Government support when they turn 18.
"Teenagers leaving care should have the right to expect what any young person would want – knowing there is someone to turn to if they need help; a warm bed to sleep in; some help and encouragement when it is needed.
"This service will provide that, both by allowing young people to stay longer with their caregivers and providing specialised transitions support workers whose job is to help this group."
Oranga Tamariki has been tasked with building the service, which will employ 175 new specialist staff employed and make 60 supported accommodation facilities available by year four.
Trawling my way down here to the bottom of your comment section for 26 I find you footnoters/ idea investigators but nowt as sharp as an arrow point. I recognise youse but when I call I'm not in the mood for milling about. More my fault.
Here is the speech that Maya Forstater gave at the Woman’s Place UK Women’s Liberation 2020 conference at UCL on February 1st In a recent newsletter she wrote: it was an amazing day (and brilliant to meet so many people in real life). I talked about what makes people and ...
NZ First portrays itself as an anti-establishment party, standing up for "the little guy" (always a guy) against Big Auckland Money and its tool-parties. But it turns out that its secret slush fund is funded by the very people it claims to oppose:Stuff can reveal a longer list of donors ...
Peter TalleyI really don’t envy Jacinda Ardern’s position as Prime Minister of New Zealand. She’s probably got the hardest job in the country. Not only does she have to ensure her own MPs are behaving properly, she has to negotiate with Winston Peters and other NZ First MPs who seem ...
Will She, Or Won't She? Jacinda’s white vestments may look impressive on the cover of the international edition of TIME magazine, but every day Labour’s relationship with Winston Peters and NZ First continues, her ability to go on wearing them back home in New Zealand – without exciting derision – diminishes.IT WAS ...
BAMS survey of 2018 extreme weather The Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society has published a collection of articles examining unusually extreme weather events of 2018 and connections of those to climate change. These investigations are listed separately below but thanks to the generosity of AMS appear free for ...
Less than two months after China told the WHO there was a problem, a lot has happened. Sadly, deaths, confirmed cases and countries affected are increasing every day. However, on a scientific and medical level, what is going on to contain, cure and prevent this new disease is truly inspirational. ...
From 2015 to 2019 the NSA ran a program of mass surveillance of Americans' domestic communications. It was intrusive, totalitarian, and a collosal waste of money:A National Security Agency system that analyzed logs of Americans’ domestic phone calls and text messages cost $100 million from 2015 to 2019, but yielded ...
I must say that it’s at loggerheads with the inclusive and free society we want to create in New Zealand that one of our largest media outlets, MediaWorks, would allow Hannah Tamaki to perform on their show, Dancing With The Stars.Hannah Tamaki and her husband Brian are after all well-known ...
The media is reporting that an Auckland man has been charged with terrorism. Unfortunately, that's all we know, because all details have been suppressed. Who are they? What are they alleged to have done? Its all secret. There may be good reason for some of this (e.g. protection of the ...
Dr David ChagnéNew Zealand is involved in a US$12.8 million USDA grant to improve the quality of blueberry and cranberry. The four-year project, led by North Carolina State University, is part of the USDA’s National Institute of Food and Agriculture Specialty Crop Research Initiative, which funds multi-year, multi-institutional collaborative ...
The Cranky Uncle vs. Climate Change book is now available! The book uses cartoons, humor, and critical thinking to expose how and why some people reject climate science. It's now available for sale on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and other book outlets. If you're near the DC area, you're very welcome to ...
by the Council of Disobedient Women When Moana Maniapoto recently lamented that Rachel Stewart was no longer writing for the Herald, political commentator Morgan Godfery was quick to brag on Twitter, like a schoolyard bully, how proud he was of “driving Rachel Stewart from the Herald”. What a contrast Morgan ...
You’re probably aware that the Achievement Standards used to assess senior school students’ learning are being reviewed. Science is one of the ‘pilot’ subjects in this process, where a ‘Subject Expert Group’ has developed 4 draft Science standards¹ (a significant step away from the current 30+, and a response to ...
John MacCormickTo succeed in an unpredictable and changing world, adaptability is the key. Let’s be chameleons. Technology continues to change people’s jobs and work environments. But change so far is not as fast and extensive as some pundits claim. Nor is it as fast and extensive as it needs ...
It seems we can’t even get through a week these days without the National Party's leader, Simon Bridges, making some sort of silly announcement about a policy that doesn’t actually exist.Usually concerning Bridges’ gut instinct and the undoing of whatever the Government has recently announced, National’s reactionary opinions and uncosted ...
Oh look! NZ First's secret slush fund was laundering donations from Talley's:One of the country's biggest fishing companies, Talley's, and its managing director donated nearly $27,000 to the New Zealand First Foundation, which has been bankrolling the New Zealand First Party. The foundation received $26,950 from seafood giant Talley's and ...
Janet Hoek, Richard Edwards, Andrew Waa, Nick Wilson, George ThomsonMinister Jenny Salesa announced the Government’s long-awaited Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Vaping) Amendment Bill on Sunday 23 February. The Bill contains some important provisions as it works to strike a balance between ensuring regulated products are available to ...
Surprisingly enough, one could argue (as I often do) that the day inserted into a leap year is not that we label 29th February, but actually the 24th of February. Here I explain why, briefly. Almost everyone assumes that the day added into February in a leap year is the ...
If you haven’t watched Newsroom’s video showing Oranga Tamariki staff attempting to uplift a newborn baby yet you should do so. Although it's not the worst case as far as interventions go, it’s certainly not a good look for the Government. Because of this controversy there’s been a plethora of ...
Genesis Energy is planning to build the country's biggest PV solar farm:Power generator and retailer Genesis Energy says it is in advanced discussions to build New Zealand's biggest solar farm in northern Waikato. The company, which earlier reported a 15 per cent decline in operating earnings to $167.2 million, said ...
Transport is our second largest source of greenhouse gas emissions. Any credible effort to reduce emissions to net-zero has to target it. So what is the government doing? Subsidising some of the dirtiest, most inefficient vehicles on the roads:New Zealand's favourite cars - double cab utes - are largely exempt ...
You’ve really got to wonder what the NZ First Party was thinking and drinking last Friday? Not only did they hamstring the Greens by halting one of their main environmental policies, the electric vehicle fee-bate scheme, a policy that the public was led to believe was a done deal…but they ...
High Risk Call: Insensitive though it may seem to even pose the question: how will the electorate respond to what the Prime Minister’s opponents will undoubtedly characterise as an attack on New Zealanders’ freedom of speech? At more than twelve month’s remove from the terrible events of 15 March 2019, ...
Story of the Week... Opinion of the Week... El Niño/La Niña Update... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... Climate change leads to more violence against women, girlsRape, domestic violence, forced marriages: A new ...
A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week, i.e., Sun, Feb 16, 2020 through Sat, Feb 22, 2020 Editor's Pick JP Morgan economists warn climate crisis is threat to human raceLeaked report for world’s major fossil fuel financier says ...
Last week the Wall Street Journal published an article ‘The Dangerous Denial of Sex by two scientists Colin Wright and Emma Hilton. Write is an evolutionary biologist at Penn State and Hilton is a developmental biologist at the University of Manchester. It is well worth reading the article in full. Here ...
I am about to mail my overseas ballot to Florida so that it can be counted in the Democratic primary on March 17. In Florida you have closed as opposed to open primaries, which means that one must declare a party preference in order to vote in a party primary. ...
Winston Peters - Deputy Prime Minister and leader of the NZ First PartyWe all know that politics can be pretty messy at times. Just look at the Dirty Politics saga in New Zealand, the misgovernment of the Australian bushfires or the recent Trump impeachment debacle in the US. In a ...
Last Monday SpaceX launched another clutch of Starlink satellites into low-Earth orbit, bringing up to 300 the number of these units intended to bring 5G internet to the whole globe. In this post I present a movie showing how all 300 such satellites will be zipping around our planet over ...
The recent floods in Southland have highlighted the issue of Rio Tinto's illegal toxic waste dump in Mataura. But according to Newsroom, there's an even worse mess in Ruakaka near Whangarei:A Northland property stockpiled one million litres of flammable and toxic chemicals. Almost two years since the situation came to ...
It’s amazing just how many attack ads $100,000 buys you these days. The National Party has really been going to town lately, with their latest Twitter campaign making a number of questionable and blatantly false assertions, one being that poverty has worsened under the Labour led Government.The National Party's claim ...
OMV's exploratory drilling in the Great South Basin has failed to find oil. Good. Firstly, because we can't afford to burn the oil and gas we've already found, so there's just no point looking for more. And secondly, because offshore, deep-water drilling poses a risk of an environmental catastrophe, which ...
The government has announced it will strengthen whistleblower protections. The major change is "allowing people to report serious wrongdoing direct to an external authority if they wish", which fixes one of the big flaws in the Act. At present, whistleblowers must generally make their disclosure direct to the body they ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Bruce Lieberman CARLSBAD, CA. – When it comes to paying the electric bill, most people don’t give it a second thought – it’s something that in effect is “baked in.” But across California and several other states, local governments increasingly are ...
Excerpts from Being and Being Bought, by Kajsa Ekis Ekman, Spinifex Press, 2013. Part 4 Ekman, a Swedish journalist and critic, brings together a Marxist and feminist analysis of prostitution and surrogacy in this groundbreaking book. This is the fourth part of a synopsis and brief commentary of the book by Daphna ...
The Democracy Virus: China’s authoritarian political system enables a level of social surveillance and control that liberal democratic societies cannot match. The Chinese Government makes full use of the latest digital technology to both punish – and reward – its citizens. The plans it formulates cannot be challenged, or hindered. Where ...
Another day, another IPCA report on criminal conduct by policy. This time they kicked a child in the head when he was handcuffed:Police chased him and yelled out for him to stop. When he turned to face the police, he threatened them with a hammer. That's when the officers tasered ...
The investigation of two of the five parties in Parliament for fraud around their election donations has pushed the issue of party funding back into the spotlight. And while there are obvious things we can do to tighten up the donations regime - a much lower declaration threshold, realtime disclosure ...
While the south of New Zealand has been struggling with too much rain in recent days, here in the north we are so very short of it (though Saturday’s forecast looks promising). Basically, we have had almost none since Christmas.As someone who relies on rain to wash the car, ...
Former National Party MP Jami-Lee RossIt comes as no surprise that Jami-Lee Ross has been named as one of the defendants in the X2 $100,000 National Party donations case currently before the courts. Click bait journalists who were chaffing at the bit to discredit the former senior whip had already ...
Stand Clear! Winston Peters is encouraging voters to think of RNZ as belonging to “The Media Party”. He wants them to see it as a politically partisan institution with its own, vicious attack-dogs in the electoral fight. If he succeeds, it will be, and probably should be, the end of ...
"You're going to need a longer runway" Gratton et al explore the ongoing effects of upward-creeping temperatures on aviation in Greece in the period since 1955 at a range of airports in that country. For longer runways impacts are measurable but with little impact on operations. For airports with shorter runways, ...
In mid-December the Israeli secret police, the Shin Beit, revealed it had arrested dozens of Palestinian left-wing activists, including members of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), in the previous few months. Among those arrested was one of the central leaders of the PFLP, Khalida Jarrar. As ...
Former National Party chief whip Jami-Lee Ross is one of the four people charged over National's multiple fraudulent donations. How unsurprising. Meanwhile, just days ago National leader Simon Bridges was trying to pretend the charges were nothing to do with his party. Yeah, right. When your chief whip effectively publicly ...
If you've been watching FYI for a while, you'll have noticed that the police have a bad habit of demanding ID from requesters. They have apparently been repeatedly told to stop doing this by the Ombudsman, but we all know what law enforcement thinks of the law, so thye keep ...
Collateral Damage: For the Green Phoenix to be reborn, the funeral pyre so patiently assembled by its identity politicians over the course of many fractious years – but with growing intensity over the past three – first has to be ignited. The terrible probability, of course, is that, in setting ...
If you follow politics in New Zealand you've likely noticed that the right wing have been going on and on about the Coalition Government failing to reduce poverty. In fact they’ve been incessantly claiming, in the absence of any conclusive data, that poverty has been getting worse.Yesterday, NewstalkZB reported:Mike Hosking: ...
The Herald reported over the weekend that an Auckland business owner is being targeted with asset forfeiture laws over a workplace death:A workplace fatality has seen police use a law usually associated with drugs and organised crime to seize millions of dollars in assets from a business owner because of ...
Just days after talking about how people feel "squeezed" and promising tax and service cuts as a "solution", National is talking about cancelling a rise in the minimum wage if elected: National is considering scrapping the Government's planned minimum wage increase if it wins this year's election, the party's finance ...
Nobody thinks about the next century anymore. That at least is Sci-Fi writer William Gibson’s observation (in this BBC 4 short interview, starting at 1:43:50 ). He calls it “Futures Fatigue”, but isn’t judgemental about it. Gibson notes that in the 20th century speculation about the 21st (and beyond) was common. Now ...
A Labour government desperate for the numbers crawls into bed with Winston Peters. Winston ignores the law and secretly takes money under the table from someone. When it is exposed just months out from an election, he is investigated by the Serious Fraud Office. That's what happened back in 2008. ...
So the Serious Fraud Office has another secret $100,050 National Party donation before the Courts in a major scandal that looks set to quash any chances Simon Bridges had of winning the 2020 election.Yesterday, Newsroom reported:The Serious Fraud Office prosecution of four people over donations to the National Party involves ...
Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Review... Poster of the Week... SkS Week in Review... Story of the Week... Iceberg twice the size of Washington, D.C., breaks off Pine Island glacier in Antarctica Story Highlights: The Pine Island ...
Prof Philippa Howden-ChapmanHousing policy is building up to be the key election issue again. In this blog I reflect on the importance of the role of the New Zealand Government in improving access to affordable housing. I look at what the Government has been doing to increase quality public housing ...
Writing on The Spinoff, Danyl Mclauchlan argues that we have a vacuum in our political system, in that there is no longer an anti-establishment party anymore:I think there’s a vacuum in our political system. There are obvious problems with the status quo but no real critics offering reform. It’s a ...
Stuff today has a piece about the government discovering it has been oversubsidising polluters for a decade under the Emissions Trading scheme:The Government is pledging to urgently fix an issue within the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS), after it emerged some polluters are likely being over-compensated with taxpayer-funded carbon credits. [...] ...
The Marlborough District Council, tired of public scrutiny, wants to increase the amount it charges for LGOIMA requests:The cost of requesting official information from Marlborough's government agency could almost double after a jump in "fishing expeditions". Charges could be raised from $60 to $100 an hour for information supplied by ...
When Winston Peters was caught money laundering donations and stalking journalists, the Greens were conspicuous by their silence. It was another example of how getting along with their government partners was eroding their values and their own reputation. It was obviously unsustainable, and so now James Shaw has finally spoken ...
I am among the most pro-free speech people I know. I don’t doubt there are others more strident than me, but I’m certainly up there. And my support for freedom of expression isn’t limited to opposition to government-imposed restrictions. It extends to a belief that employers should have limited powers ...
With over 69,000 confirmed cases and 1,600 deaths, here’s your round-up of the latest coronavirus news. New disease and virus have now officially been named On the 11th February, the WHO Director General announced a new name for the disease: COVID-19 which is short for coronavirus disease 2019. The naming ...
A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week, i.e., Sun, Feb 9, 2020 through Sat, Feb 15, 2020 Editor's Pick ANALYSIS-Climate change opens up 'frontier' farmland, but at what cost to the planet?Climate change could expand farmland globally by ...
After cross-examination Jones knew he would lose the defamation case he took against film maker Renae Maihi. That’s why he threw in the towel. The weight of evidence was clearly against the old tycoon with the defense presenting fifty articles to confirm Jones’ racist views.Being unable to harass somebody into ...
Sprung! Former NZ First president, Lester Gray, chats with RNZ's Guyon Espiner in the carpark of a Tauranga shopping centre.(Photo supplied anonymously to NZ First and The BFD.)IT’S CLEAR THAT an important aspect of Jacinda Ardern’s political success is her willingness to seek – and take – advice. This ...
Ruth Cunningham, Charlotte Paul, Andrew MoorePublic health responses to infectious diseases such as COVID-19 require us to draw on our common humanity and be explicit about our values. Recognising this will help us make good decisions in difficult situations so that, for example, the need to impose restrictive measures ...
The Helen Clark Foundation has released its report on the housing crisis, and found that house-hoarders are to blame for it:Property investors are to blame for New Zealand's high house prices, a new research paper published by the Helen Clark Foundation says. [...] McArthur said previous attempts to address housing ...
The Abortion Legislation Committee has reported back on the Abortion Legislation Bill and recommended that it be passed with some amendments. Unfortunately, the latter include even more hoops to jump through for those seeking abortions after 20 weeks, including a time-wasting requirement to consult a second doctor. No-one casually seeks ...
Brexit is likely to be a disaster for the UK (how sad, never mind). But now that they're out of the EU, the latter has finaly taken the opportunity to blacklist one of their key tax havens:The Cayman Islands, a British overseas territory, is to be put on an EU ...
Fletcher Tabuteau MP, New Zealand First Deputy Leader A total delivery of 2,000 new Police Officers has been achieved. New Zealand First Deputy Leader, Fletcher Tabuteau attended the latest police graduation of Recruit Wing 335 in Porirua today. Mr Tabuteau said, “Increasing police numbers and boosting their resources was one of ...
Taupō District mayor David Trewavas has welcomed today’s announcement from regional economic development minister Shane Jones outlining $5.87m of funding for the re-development of the Taupō Airport. The bulk of the investment ($5 million) will come from the Provincial Growth Fund, while the rest will be from the New Zealand ...
Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has defended multi-million dollar provincial growth fund money for Northland water storage. The New Zealand First leader, along with Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones, were recently in Dargaville to announce up to $12.745 million PGF funding top-up for water storage initiatives in the ...
One of our most immediate priorities upon forming Government was to get people out of sleeping in cars, garages, or on the street and into safe and warm housing. Since then, we've made major progress towards breaking the cycle of homelessness, including expanding Housing First, building more state houses, and ...
Kids learn better with a full stomach. That's why we launched our Lunches in Schools programme, which is already providing free and healthy school lunches to thousands of children so they can focus on what's important - learning. ...
Mark Patterson MP, New Zealand First List MP based in Clutha-Southland This afternoon to a crowd of over 100 people in Mataura -- Mark Patterson, New Zealand First List MP based in Clutha-Southland launched a parliamentary petition regarding the aluminium dross issue in Mataura, Southland. The petition asks that the ...
Fletcher Tabuteau MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development New Zealand First Deputy Leader and Spokesperson for Finance, Fletcher Tabuteau has welcomed Statistics New Zealand’s latest report as a timely reminder of the value that this Coalition Government brings to every day New Zealanders: “This Coalition Government has meant a ...
Today New Zealand First made a pledge to campaign at the election to fund St John Ambulance the 90 per cent it has asked for. Government funding would allow St. John’s to achieve fully funded status. Leader of New Zealand First, Rt Hon Winston Peters publicly declared his determination to deliver ...
Darroch Ball MP, Spokesperson for Law and Order Newly released Police data shows once again the number of fleeing drivers have continued to skyrocket with a record 512 incidents occurring in December – almost tripling the number of incidents occurring just ten years ago, says New Zealand First Law and ...
While the Provincial Growth Fund has provided $2 million to set up temporary water supplies in Kaikohe and Kaitaia, Regional Economic Minister Shane Jones said he is greatly concerned that there are “issues” in implementing the projects. The Minister said the immediate solution was to pipe water from a bore ...
Mark Patterson MP, New Zealand First List MP for Clutha-Southland NZ First is calling on Rio Tinto to accept its responsibilities to the Southland community and enable the immediate removal of the toxic Aluminium Dross from the Mataura Paper Mill site. New Zealand First List MP for Clutha-Southland, Mark Patterson ...
The Coalition Government has announced that a further $500,000 will be given to help residents in Southland and Otago to speed up recovery efforts from the floods. It follows prior government assistance of $200,000 earlier this month where the Southland Mayoral Relief Fund received $100,000 to support communities impacted by ...
Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones was on RNZ’s Morning Report talking about the recent droughts in the Northland region and what the Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is doing to alleviate its impact. The PGF recently announced a funding of $2 million for temporary water supplies to Kaikohe and Kaitaia, ...
Speaking to The Country’s Jamie Mackay, New Zealand First MP and Cabinet Minister Shane Jones talks water storage, plant-based meat imitation, and superstar Hollywood director James Cameron. While water storage may have its critics, Minister Jones defended the scheme by saying: “unless we invest and continue to invest” in this ...
Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones is accusing northern iwi leaders of selling out Māori by voting for ideologically-driven court cases rather than practical steps to increase water supply. “I just think that iwi leaders who think that water issues are going to be solved by perpetually fighting in the ...
A dairy owner in St Kilda, Dunedin was delighted to hear that an attempted robbery of his establishment was foiled by a government-funded security system. Sean Lee was delighted at how well the anti-theft smoke system worked. When a knife-wielding man entered the store, the shop assistant immediately pressed a ...
Customs says it stopped more than three tonnes of illegal drugs coming into New Zealand last year. This includes 1,180kg of methamphetamine, 329kg of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine precursors, which could have been converted into 246kg of methamphetamine, 739kg and 6469 pills of MDMA or Ecstasy and 60kg of cocaine. Offshore, ...
Hon. Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development Up to $2 million will be allocated from the Provincial Growth Fund to set up temporary water supplies in Kaikohe and Kaitaia where drought is biting hard, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has announced. Drought conditions in Northland have led to ...
Darroch Ball, Spokesperson for Law and Order New Zealand First welcomes the deployment of an Eagle Police helicopter in Christchurch in what is a step towards fulfilling its long-standing goal to increase the use of police helicopters for the front line, particularly in addressing the scourge of fleeing drivers. Christchurch leads ...
It may have been the first sitting week of 2020, but our Government is already in full-swing - managing a strong economy, investing in infrastructure, and working to break the cycle of homelessness. Read below for all that, and more... ...
In a heated debate in Parliament, National's Deputy Leader Paula Bennett claimed that “nearly 1600 patched gang members have been added” since the Coalition Government took power. To illustrate her point, she altered a chart used by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern to show her government’s progress in housing to instead ...
Speech by the Rt Hon Winston Peters at Parliament’s Opening 2020 "We all need insurance" This year New Zealanders are going to have a clear choice to make That choice is between: Optimism versus pessimism; More progress versus back to the future; Investment versus divestment; Unity versus division. New Zealand ...
Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones has slammed the Board of Auckland Airport following the airport's runway closing twice within two weeks due to maintenance. Around 2,000 passengers were affected by last week’s runway closures, according to 1NEWS. Another maintenance closure on January 24 saw two international flights and three domestic flights ...
A milestone has been reached with the graduation of more than 2,000 new Police officers since the Coalition Government took office in October 2017. Police Minister Stuart Nash says the graduation today of Wing 335 marks a surge of 2,023 new officers, and coincides with some significant breakthroughs against organised ...
Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media Minister, Kris Faafoi, and the Minister of Education, Chris Hipkins, have welcomed a new cyber security qualification as a step towards countering cyber threats and keeping New Zealanders safe. Attending the launch of the new Level 6 Diploma of Cyber Security at Auckland’s Unitec Institute ...
Government Ministers today celebrated 20 years of the Hauraki Gulf Marine Park/ Ko te Pataka kai o Tikapa Moana/ Te Moananui a Toi, and recognise there is much to celebrate and so much more to do to give nature a helping hand. Conservation Minister Eugenie Sage said “New Zealanders care deeply about nature.I want to ...
Prepared remarks on coronavirus by Finance Minister Grant Robertson to the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and Massey University. Good morning ladies and gentlemen, The topic of this speech is the Budget 2020 priorities. But, given the considerable interest that I imagine is in the room about COVID-19 coronavirus, I do ...
E ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā iwi, e ngā rau rangatira ma. Tena koutou, tena koutou, tena koutou katoa. Ni sa bula vinaka. Namaste Thank you Shamima, Hon. Minister Vuniwaqa, community leaders and Women’s Crisis Centre staff for your warm welcome. It’s an honour and privilege to officially ...
The Government has released a comprehensive response to ensuring New Zealanders get a fairer deal at the petrol pump. This follows the Commerce Commission fuel market study which found motorists were paying more than they should for petrol and includes: Fuel Market Bill drafting, to pass mid-year Industry consultation in ...
E ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā iwi, e ngā rau rangatira ma Tēnā koutou katoa Ni sa bula vinaka As-salaam alaikum It is a privilege to be here today. Thank you for welcoming us to your house of prayer. Thank you for your warmth. Thank you for greeting ...
Taupō Airport is to be upgraded and expanded through a $5.9 million Government funding boost, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has announced. “Taupō Airport is the gateway to the Central North Island. It is essential for both keeping local people and businesses connected, but also to bring more people ...
The Minister of Housing Megan Woods has confirmed the Government is working with Rotorua Lakes District Council and Te Arawa for the second place-based assessment to better understand the housing and urban issues affecting the city. “Every New Zealander has a right to a warm, safe and secure place to ...
19 new community homes (in addition to 14 opened in December) delivered in Takanini, Auckland 500 people housed by CORT Housing Trust by end of March 2,290 new public housing homes delivered in Auckland (November 2017 – December 2019). Another nineteen new public housing homes are being delivered in Auckland, ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Minister for Trade and Export Growth David Parker met today with Indian External Affairs Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar to discuss ways to strengthen ties between New Zealand and India. “India is a priority relationship for New Zealand. We share common democratic traditions, growing two-way trade, extensive people-to-people links, ...
Speech to the Indian Council of World Affairs (ICWA) Delhi, India Wednesday 26 February 2020 [CHECK AGAINST DELIVERY] The Indo-Pacific: from principles to partnerships Distinguished guests, good afternoon and thank you for your invitation. It is good to be here at a time where New Zealand needs less of an introduction than ...
Tihei mauri ora Te Whare e tu nei Te Papa e takoto Tēnā korua No reira tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa Ni sa bula Vinaka It is a real pleasure to be here today, and to have the honour of addressing you all. If you’ll indulge me I’m ...
Improved air quality to support better health and environmental wellbeing is the focus of proposed amendments to air quality regulations, says the Associate Minister for the Environment, Hon Nanaia Mahuta. “Although our air quality is good in most places, during winter certain places have spikes in air pollution, mainly from ...
The remote eastern Bay of Plenty community of Raukokere will receive a Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) investment of $10.6 million for a water storage facility, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones says. “This is great news for the rural community. The landowner, Te Whānau a Maruhaeremuri Hapū Trust, will use ...
The Lake Ōkaro lakebed has transferred to Te Arawa Lakes Trust, Minister for Māori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis joined Te Arawa at Te Papaiōuru Marae in Rotorua to celebrate the reinstatement of Te Arawa Lakes Trust as a key decision maker over the bed ...
New legislation is being proposed which aims to reduce the stress and financial hardship caused by late payments to small businesses. The Minister for Small Business Stuart Nash is considering stricter rules around payment practices between businesses. “Late payments from large organisations to smaller suppliers can be crippling for these ...
A new partnership programme between the New Zealand Police and Fiji Police will focus on combatting transnational organised crime and enhancing investigative skills, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced on the first day of her visit to Fiji. The programme will see: · New Zealand Institute of Environmental Science and Research ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Prime Minister Josaia Voreqe Bainimarama met today in Suva, and renewed their commitment to continue to strengthen Fiji-New Zealand relations on a foundation of shared values and equal partnership. The Prime Ministers acknowledged the kinship between Fijians and New Zealanders, one that has endured over ...
A $19.9 million investment from the Provincial Growth Fund will help develop essential infrastructure for an industrial hub in the Bay of Plenty town of Kawerau, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones says. “The funding will go to three projects to further develop the Putauaki Trust Industrial Hub, an industrial ...
The Provincial Growth Fund is investing $8.3 million on a roading package for Mahia that will lead to greater and wider economic benefits for the region and beyond, Under Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau announced at an event in Mahia today. The $8.3 million announced consists of: $7 ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has welcomed new reporting showing the Coalition Government is on track to meet its child poverty targets, with 18,400 children lifted out of poverty as a result of the Families Package. Stats NZ has released the first set of comprehensive child poverty statistics since the Government ...
Associate Minister of Transport Julie Anne Genter today announced that Bikes in Schools facilities have been rolled out to 20,000 more kiwi kids under this Government. She made the announcement at the opening of a new bike track at Henderson North School in Auckland. “Bikes in Schools facilities give kids ...
Benefit settings rise in line with wages as of 1 April Main benefits will increase by over 3 percent, instead of 1.66 percent, on 1 April with the Government’s decision to annually adjust benefit rates to increases in the average wage. The Minister for Social Development, Carmel Sepuloni, said ...
Strengthening New Zealand’s political and business ties with India will be the focus of Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters’ and Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker’s visit to India this week. The Ministers are co-leading a high level business delegation to India to support increased people and economic engagement ...
The Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio continues to champion for greater Pacific participation in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) careers with the announcement of the Toloa Awards, with 8 recipients of the Toloa Community Fund and 13 Toloa Tertiary Scholarships. “The Toloa Programme encourages more Pacific peoples ...
Conservation Minister Eugenie Sage has extended the date for people to have their say on proposed changes to improve management of whitebait across New Zealand. Submissions were due to close on 2 March 2020 but will now remain open until 9am on Monday 16 March 2020. “I have ...
The endangered toroa/Antipodean albatross has new international protection for its 100,000km annual migration, thanks to collaborative efforts led by New Zealand, Australia and Chile. Today, 130 countries agreed to strictly protect Antipodean albatross at the Conference of Parties on the Convention on the Conservation of Migratory Species of Wild ...
No sales to under-18-year-olds No advertising and sponsorship of vaping products and e-cigarettes No vaping or smokeless tobacco in smokefree areas Regulates vaping product safety comprehensively, - including devices, flavours and ingredients Ensure vaping products are available for those who want to quit smoking Vaping regulation that balances ...
Justice Minister Andrew Little will travel to Berlin tomorrow to represent New Zealand at a high-level summit on nuclear disarmament. This year, the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) celebrates 50 years since it entered into force. “New Zealand’s proud record and leadership on nuclear disarmament is unwavering, so it’s important we are present ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern will visit two of New Zealand’s most important Pacific partners, Fiji and Australia, next week. The visit to Fiji will be the first by a New Zealand Prime Minister in four years and comes during the 50th anniversary of Fijian independence and diplomatic relations between our ...
Justice Minister Andrew Little and New Zealand First MP Darroch Ball, have today announced the appointment of the Chief Commissioner of the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), the location, and the membership of the Establishment Advisory Group. Colin Carruthers QC has been appointed Chief Commissioner of the CCRC for an ...
Māori Development Minister Hon Nanaia Mahuta and Agriculture Minister Hon Damien O’Connor co-announced the first horticultural finalists for the Ahuwhenua Trophy celebrating excellence in the Māori agricultural sector. The three finalists are Ngai Tukairangi Trust from Mt Maunganui, Otama Marere Trust from Tauranga, and Hineora Orchard Te Kaha 15B Ahuwhenua ...
A new kete of resources to strengthen support for students with dyslexia will provide extra tools for the new Learning Support Coordinators (LSCs) as they start in schools, Associate Education Minister Tracey Martin announced today. The Minister launched the kete in Wellington this morning, at the first of three induction ...
The Government continues to make progress on a fairer and more secure rental market for renters and landlords with the First Reading of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill and its referral to the Social Services and Community Select Committee. “Now is the opportunity for landlords, tenants and others who want ...
Papua New Guinea’s Prime Minister Hon James Marape will visit New Zealand from 21-25 February, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced today. “New Zealand and Papua New Guinea have a warm and friendly relationship. I look forward to welcoming Prime Minister Marape here and strengthening the relationship between our two countries,” ...
Thousands of children have begun receiving a free lunch on every day of the school week, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said. The Government’s free and healthy school lunch programme is under way for 7,000 students at 31 schools in Hawke’s Bay / Tairāwhiti and Bay of Plenty / Waiariki, extending ...
The Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni today announced a new approach that continues to broaden the Government’s social sector focus from a narrow, investment approach to one centred on people and wellbeing. Minister Sepuloni said redefining the previous approach to social investment by combining science, data and lived experience ...
The Government is strengthening the Protected Disclosures Act to provide better protection for whistle blowers, Minister of State Services Chris Hipkins said today. “The Protected Disclosures Act is meant to encourage people to speak up about serious wrongdoing in the workplace and protect them from losing their jobs or being ...
Nǐn hǎo (Hello in Mandarin). Xīn Nián Kuài Lè (Happy New Year in Mandarin) Néi Hóu (Hello in Cantonese). Sun Nin Fai Lok (Happy New Year in Cantonese) Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa. Thank you for your invitation to attend this celebration today. I would like to acknowledge ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The federal government has activated its emergency response plan to deal with a spread of the coronavirus locally, in anticipation of it becoming a “pandemic”. It is also considering limited assistance for those hardest hit ...
In an apparent change of tune, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern expects to raise the topic of climate change with Australian counterpart Scott Morrison tomorrow. ...
The Government says it wants to protect small businesses from getting shafted by big companies who don’t or won’t pay their bills on time. The move can’t come too soon. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Muecke, Clinical senior lecturer in Ophthalmology and Visual Sciences, University of Adelaide Humans are physiologically hardwired to love and seek out sweet things. It’s an ancient survival mechanism that evolved to prepare our bodies for periods of fasting when food supplies ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Marilyn McMahon, Deputy Dean, School of Law, Deakin University The NSW government has just introduced a bill that will, among other significant reforms, make it easier for a jury to be informed about the prior convictions of a person on trial for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Marilyn McMahon, Deputy Dean, School of Law, Deakin University The NSW government has just introduced a bill that will, among other significant reforms, make it easier for a jury to be informed about the prior convictions of a person on trial for ...
By RNZ Pacific Jacinda Ardern has paid tribute to the three Fijians who died in last year’s Christchurch mosque shootings. Ardern spoke today at Lautoka Mosque as part of her trip to Fiji to remember Imam Hafiz Musa Patel, Ashraf Ali Razak and Ashraf Ali, who died almost a ...
The Real Pod reassembles to dissect the cultured fourth week of The Bachelorette NZ with special thanks to Nando’s.This week on The Bachelorette NZ, a burrito bust-up ends in anaphylaxis, Steve chows down on some one-ply, and the Buenos Aires hostel goes full Lord of the Flies. It’s become abundantly ...
Caritas Aotearoa New Zealand, the Catholic Bishops' agency for justice, peace and development, is concerned that the latestchild poverty numbers show that there has been anincrease in material hardship,with 4100 more children living in ...
Dr Bryce Edwards.Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni described this year’s annual benefit increases of 3 per cent as “significant”, and “a way of sharing the wealth”. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern also heralded them as the biggest increase to benefits in nine years, if National’s 2015 one-off adjustments are excluded. ...
Is it the kind of headline that will win votes at the general election? “Rock-star reception in Fijian village” followed by a sub-head “Rapturous greeting for Ardern during visit to launch $3m sanitation project”. The reporter (veteran Barry Soper, Newstalk ZB’s political editor) poses the rhetorical question: “Is there any ...
The New Zealand First Foundation received $100,000 in just one week from two rich-listers, whose donations remained secret because the individual payments fell below the disclosure threshold. ...
BusinessNZ says legislation requiring more transparent petrol pricing will probably be well-received, but there are concerns about the market study that prompted it. The Government has announced it is drafting a Fuel Market Bill to introduce requirements ...
Business is Boring is a weekly podcast series presented by The Spinoff in association with Callaghan Innovation. Host Simon Pound speaks with innovators and commentators focused on the future of New Zealand. This week he talks to Andrea Watson, Sparrows CEO and founder, and Simon Yarrow, who leads Callaghan Innovation’s ...
LGNZ say a new report from the Deep South National Science Challenge is a reminder for central government policy makers to step up the pace on progressing a national strategy on climate change adaption. LGNZ is the peak body representing New Zealand’s ...
Art schools are seen by many as beacons of liberalism. But is this the reality? Former Māori student Anna McAllister recounts her fraught journey through an Auckland art school.In high school, the only subjects I was remotely good at were the practical arts. I stayed in the art block during ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Madeline Taylor, Academic Fellow, University of Sydney This week’s decision by Norwegian company Equinor to abandon a A$200 million plan to drill for oil in the Great Australian Bight surprised both its critics and backers. Equinor says it abandoned the project off ...
Finance Minister sees serious, short-term impact on economy from Covid-19. He says the Government is able to deliver more general fiscal stimulus and sector-specific help if the economic hit is longer and harder. Finance Minister Grant Robertson has given his first comprehensive update on the economic effects expected from the ...
In response to reports that 30,000 New Zealanders earning over $100,000 are taking superannuation, New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union spokesperson Casey Russell says: “It’s clear that many wealthy New Zealanders are collecting superannuation they don’t ...
Fancy a quick trip to Europe without leaving the comfort of your own couch? Tara Ward rounds up the best European drama for your viewing pleasure. Anyone who reckons travel is the only way to expand your mind has never had the pleasure of lying on a couch for three days ...
Child protection social work involves risk. It always will. The right decisions cannot always be made and sometimes it can be a question of choosing between the least damaging alternatives. We have had a long list of child abuse tragedies for over 30 years now – in Aotearoa New Zealand and ...
SFO scrutiny of National and NZ First donations sparked debate about party funding and electoral laws. Now, Transparency International has a warning. ...
Not paying NZ Super out to those on incomes of $100,000 or more would save taxpayers around $608 million. Is it time we shake up who gets paid and what? RNZ‘s Nita Blake-Persen reports.The number of New Zealand retirees getting their superannuation while earning more than $100,000 has topped 30,000, ...
Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.New Zealand Parliament Buildings, Wellington, New Zealand.Today’s contentCoronavirus John Gibb (ODT): Otago academic fears ‘massive’ impact Chris Trotter (Daily Blog): Nothing Xenophobic Or Racist About The Chinese ...
Dr Bryce Edwards.Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern won power in 2017 on the basis of statements such as “My goal is to eradicate child poverty in New Zealand”. The Government’s progress on child poverty will be under scrutiny at this year’s general election, but progress is slow, and many are claiming ...
New Zealand King Salmon has had a better-than-expected first half, driven by record prices for its fish products. The Marlborough-based salmon farmer's net profit rose nearly 38 percent to $20.8 million in the six months to December, with the average sale price up 6.6 percent. However, revenue of $84.2m was ...
Reform of superannuation is overdue, with new figures showing more than 30,000 superannuitants are earning more than $100,000 per year. This number is growing fast as more people keep working past 65. More than 126,000 superannuitants (17% of the total) are earning ...
Funding to give nature a helping hand and support community conservation projects opens this week, with $5.6m available for community-led projects. “The Department of Conservation (DOC) Community Fund enables us to go further and faster in our conservation ...
Police acknowledge the findings of the Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA) in relation to decision-making in a sexual assault investigation in Palmerston North. The IPCA found that the decision-making was sound, and there was no conflict of interest ...
Thursday, February 27: Greenpeace has published an open letter calling on the organisers of music festival WOMAD to dump oil industry sponsorship. Todd Energy and Austrian oil giant OMV are on the bill again this year, despite persistent criticism from ...
The clash between urban cyclists and car drivers has been brewing for several years now. But pedestrians have been advocating for their rights for far longer, writesNot so long ago, the journalist Bernard Hickey predicted that cyclists vs motorists will become one of the political issues of our age. “We ...
A2 Milk has delivered a strong financial result, with increased sales in its infant nutrition business and with better than expected profit margins. The specialty milk company's net profit rose 21 percent in the six months to December to $184.9m, with an underlying sales margin of 32.6 percent. Sales rose ...
Air New Zealand's half year profit has taken a larger hit than expected, falling 33 percent amid slowing demand for air travel and increased costs. Its net profit was $101 million in the six months ended December, compared with $150m the year before. Costs rose due to price hikes for ...
You might be trying to reduce your carbon footprint in everyday life, but what about in death? Alex Casey talks to Becs Bartells, founder of Outside the Box about creating the perfect cardboard casket. Becs Bartells often forgets she has an empty coffin sitting in the back of her station wagon, ...
As government services shut their doors in communities and drive people to interact online, the wellbeing of New Zealand's most vulnerable people is being diminished, says the Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB). CAB has released the report 'Face to Face ...
New research from justice advocacy group JustSpeak released today shows that structural bias in policing continues to disproportionately harm Māori and demonstrates the urgent need for transformative change across our justice system. Using the Statistics ...
A Spinoff article last year rightly raised concerns that citizens’ assemblies could be yet another imposition of Western ideas on Māori. But assemblies and tino rangatiratanga-based visions in fact share a critique of our current democratic system – and could together transform politics, write Emily Beausoleil and Max Rashbrooke.Nadine Anne ...
More new coronavirus cases have for the first time been reported outside China than inside, World Health Organisation chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has said. ...
Simon Bridges wouldn't deport mosque shooter Brenton Tarrant if found guilty despite calling for reciprocal policy; and Why climate change should be on the agenda for Jacinda meet Morrison. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David A. Savage, Associate Professor of Behavioural Economics , Newcastle Business School, University of Newcastle Recent days have brought reports of shoppers clearing out supermarket shelves from Wuhan and Hong Kong to Singapore and Milan in response to the spread of coronavirus. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexander Gillespie, Professor of Law, University of Waikato The Christchurch mosque attacks on March 15 last year have prompted a significant rise in tip-offs about people expressing extremist views, according to a report by New Zealand’s Security Intelligence Service (NZSIS). During the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Beirman, Senior Lecturer, Tourism, University of Technology Sydney The coronavirus outbreak (COVID-19) has now reached more than 80,000 recorded cases, largely concentrated in China, with a death toll over 2,700 and rising. There are few signs the epidemic is abating. In ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tessa Copp, PhD candidate, University of Sydney Polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) is a common hormonal condition. When using the definition supported by the international guidelines, it affects just under one in six young Australian women. To meet the diagnostic criteria of PCOS, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Paul McGorrery, PhD Candidate in Criminal Law, Deakin University The recent killing of Hannah Clarke and her three children by her estranged husband has raised national attention to the types of behaviour that might lead to such a horrific crime, and how ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dominique Hes, Senior Lecturer in Sustainable Architecture, University of Melbourne Despite a wealth of evidence to the contrary, some still propagate the myth that the world will need Australian coal for decades to come. Last weekend Opposition Leader Anthony Albanese joined in, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mehmet Ulubasoglu, Professor of Economics, Head of the Department of Economics and Director of the Centre for Energy, the Environment and Natural Disasters, Deakin University My team and I have analysed the incomes of people affected by some of Australia’s worst bushfires, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tiffani J. Howell, Research Fellow, School of Psychology and Public Health, La Trobe University Australians are slightly obsessed with our dogs. But are we obsessed enough to watch a reality doggy makeover show? The reality makeover concept has a long history, from ...
Good morning and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Saving water becomes crucial amid drought, means testing Super back in the news, and a hard look at a Special Purpose Vehicle.Aucklanders need to get serious about saving water or restrictions will come in. Newshub reports that’s the message from Watercare, who ...
An anonymous international student at the University of Auckland grapples with when and how she might return to NZ amid the coronavirus outbreak, and what challenges she will face if she makes it back. I am a Chinese international student at the University of Auckland. Having completed my language course and ...
When will there be a vaccine? What can we do and how do we stay up to date? Helen Petousis-Harris gives an update on the COVID-19 global health emergency Less than two months after China told the World Health Organisation there was a problem, a lot has happened. Sadly, deaths, confirmed ...
From February 28, Kiwibank will be cheque-free. Mark Jennings looks at how it has been preparing its customers for the big change. It’s raining heavily in Nelson, something it hasn’t done for a while. Local MP and former cabinet minister Nick Smith hurriedly climbs into an old bus parked outside the city’s library. ...
Experts in far-right extremism see a number of similarities between the Christchurch terror attack and last week's mass shooting in Hanau, Germany. Marc Daalder reports. On the evening of February 19, a man shot up two shisha bars frequented by Muslims in Hanau, Germany. It later emerged that he had released ...
ReadingRoom has devoted all week to the biggest-selling book in New Zealand right now, In The Clearing, a brilliant thriller by Ngāpuhi author JP Pomare, based on creepy Australian cult The Family. We conclude the series with a review by Bill Ralston.JP Pomare's second novel In ...
Up-and-coming teenage freeskiier Ruby Andrews has shown she has the boldness and the bravery to become one of the world's top women in not one, but three, different events. There’s no questioning Ruby Andrews’ grit and determination. While most 15-year-olds are spending this summer hanging with friends on the beach, Andrews ...
New Zealand’s travel ban on China has been extended another week. The president of the New Zealand Union of Students’ Associations argues for a student exemption.The loss of lives and poor health caused by coronavirus is devastating. We must acknowledge the families, across the globe, who have lost loved ones ...
The first issue of the Otago student magazine for 2020 had barely hit campus before it was making headlines in the wider media. The cover was censored by Facebook, and a furious editorial denounced party politics, promising to give them a miss. Josie Adams speaks to editor Sinead Gill about ...
The global health emergency that is the Coronavirus - or Covid-19 - has become a game-changer for scientists around the world in terms of the speed of the response. But at the same time it's been termed a 'misinfodemic' Covid-19 – or coronavirus – is a game changer for scientists around the ...
President Rodrigo Duterte administers the oath of office to the National Commission for Culture and the Arts (NCCA) officials in a ceremony at the Rizal Hall in Malacañang Palace on February 26, 2020. Video: RapplerBy Felipe F. Salvosa II in Manila Reporters have finally got the chance to ...
Andy Ayamiseba died a few days ago. While the West Papuan was loved, admired and supported in Vanuatu, he fought tirelessly to win a home he could return to. He died before the dream was achieved.Originally published by the Pacific Institute of Public Policy (PIPP), this 2013 profile ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Merryn McKinnon, Senior lecturer, Australian National University Public representation of science in the media still struggles to reflect the true diversity of those who work in science, technology, engineering or mathematics (STEM). According to the Women in Leadership Australia’s 2019 Women for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Mathews, Professor of Strategic Management, Macquarie Graduate School of Management, Macquarie University Australia is the world’s third largest fossil fuels exporter – a fact that generates intense debate as climate change intensifies. While the economy is heavily reliant on coal and ...
The Otago Regional Council (ORC) voted today to request that Minister for the Environment Hon. David Parker exercise his authority to ‘call in’ upcoming proposed plan changes to the Regional Plan for Otago: Water and Regional Plan for Otago: Waste ...
This week’s plummeting international stock markets are a sign the ‘best case scenario’ economic outcomes of the coronavirus are increasingly unlikely. And that’s a worry for NZ’s manufacturers. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Mark Butler, Shadow Minister for Climate Change and Energy, is optimistic that Labor is better placed to prosecute its climate policy at the next election, compared to the last. “I think we are better positioned ...
The huge majority of New Zealanders think fishing industry donations to Members of Parliament at the last election have the potential to “strongly influence” decisions the MPs make, according to a poll conducted by Horizon Research. The poll, ...
Open mike 26/05/2019 
Here is the speech that Maya Forstater gave at the Woman’s Place UK Women’s Liberation 2020 conference at UCL on February 1st In a recent newsletter she wrote: it was an amazing day (and brilliant to meet so many people in real life). I talked about what makes people and ...4 hours ago
A New Hope from the National Party leader ...12 hours ago
NZ First portrays itself as an anti-establishment party, standing up for "the little guy" (always a guy) against Big Auckland Money and its tool-parties. But it turns out that its secret slush fund is funded by the very people it claims to oppose:Stuff can reveal a longer list of donors ...13 hours ago
13 hours ago
Will She, Or Won't She? Jacinda’s white vestments may look impressive on the cover of the international edition of TIME magazine, but every day Labour’s relationship with Winston Peters and NZ First continues, her ability to go on wearing them back home in New Zealand – without exciting derision – diminishes.IT WAS ...14 hours ago
BAMS survey of 2018 extreme weather The Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society has published a collection of articles examining unusually extreme weather events of 2018 and connections of those to climate change. These investigations are listed separately below but thanks to the generosity of AMS appear free for ...20 hours ago
Fans are outraged at the prospect of Destiny Church pastor Hannah Tamaki joining the Black Caps ...1 day ago
Less than two months after China told the WHO there was a problem, a lot has happened. Sadly, deaths, confirmed cases and countries affected are increasing every day. However, on a scientific and medical level, what is going on to contain, cure and prevent this new disease is truly inspirational. ...1 day ago
I am about to mail my overseas ballot to Florida so that it can be counted in the Democratic primary on March 17. In Florida you have closed as opposed to open primaries, which means that one must declare a party preference in order to vote in a party primary. ...5 days ago
In mid-December the Israeli secret police, the Shin Beit, revealed it had arrested dozens of Palestinian left-wing activists, including members of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), in the previous few months. Among those arrested was one of the central leaders of the PFLP, Khalida Jarrar. As ...1 week ago
I am among the most pro-free speech people I know. I don’t doubt there are others more strident than me, but I’m certainly up there. And my support for freedom of expression isn’t limited to opposition to government-imposed restrictions. It extends to a belief that employers should have limited powers ...2 weeks ago
Fletcher Tabuteau MP, New Zealand First Deputy Leader A total delivery of 2,000 new Police Officers has been achieved. New Zealand First Deputy Leader, Fletcher Tabuteau attended the latest police graduation of Recruit Wing 335 in Porirua today. Mr Tabuteau said, “Increasing police numbers and boosting their resources was one of ...11 hours ago
One of our most immediate priorities upon forming Government was to get people out of sleeping in cars, garages, or on the street and into safe and warm housing. Since then, we've made major progress towards breaking the cycle of homelessness, including expanding Housing First, building more state houses, and ...2 days ago
A milestone has been reached with the graduation of more than 2,000 new Police officers since the Coalition Government took office in October 2017. Police Minister Stuart Nash says the graduation today of Wing 335 marks a surge of 2,023 new officers, and coincides with some significant breakthroughs against organised ...9 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The federal government has activated its emergency response plan to deal with a spread of the coronavirus locally, in anticipation of it becoming a “pandemic”. It is also considering limited assistance for those hardest hit ...3 hours ago
In an apparent change of tune, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern expects to raise the topic of climate change with Australian counterpart Scott Morrison tomorrow. ...4 hours ago
The Government says it wants to protect small businesses from getting shafted by big companies who don’t or won’t pay their bills on time. The move can’t come too soon. ...6 hours ago
Caritas Aotearoa New Zealand, the Catholic Bishops' agency for justice, peace and development, is concerned that the latestchild poverty numbers show that there has been anincrease in material hardship,with 4100 more children living in ...9 hours ago
Is it the kind of headline that will win votes at the general election? “Rock-star reception in Fijian village” followed by a sub-head “Rapturous greeting for Ardern during visit to launch $3m sanitation project”. The reporter (veteran Barry Soper, Newstalk ZB’s political editor) poses the rhetorical question: “Is there any ...10 hours ago
Art schools are seen by many as beacons of liberalism. But is this the reality? Former Māori student Anna McAllister recounts her fraught journey through an Auckland art school.In high school, the only subjects I was remotely good at were the practical arts. I stayed in the art block during ...11 hours ago
Jacinda Ardern has paid tribute to the three Fijians who died in last year's Christchurch mosque shootings. ...11 hours ago
Finance Minister sees serious, short-term impact on economy from Covid-19. He says the Government is able to deliver more general fiscal stimulus and sector-specific help if the economic hit is longer and harder. Finance Minister Grant Robertson has given his first comprehensive update on the economic effects expected from the ...12 hours ago
Child protection social work involves risk. It always will. The right decisions cannot always be made and sometimes it can be a question of choosing between the least damaging alternatives. We have had a long list of child abuse tragedies for over 30 years now – in Aotearoa New Zealand and ...13 hours ago
New Zealand King Salmon has had a better-than-expected first half, driven by record prices for its fish products. The Marlborough-based salmon farmer's net profit rose nearly 38 percent to $20.8 million in the six months to December, with the average sale price up 6.6 percent. However, revenue of $84.2m was ...14 hours ago
The Government has accepted a majority of the recommendations of the Commerce Commission's retail fuel market study, Marc Daalder reports Energy Minister Megan Woods announced today that the Government will regulate the wholesale fuel market, in line with recommendations from the Commerce Commission. In legislation due to be passed by ...14 hours ago
A2 Milk has delivered a strong financial result, with increased sales in its infant nutrition business and with better than expected profit margins. The specialty milk company's net profit rose 21 percent in the six months to December to $184.9m, with an underlying sales margin of 32.6 percent. Sales rose ...15 hours ago
Air New Zealand's half year profit has taken a larger hit than expected, falling 33 percent amid slowing demand for air travel and increased costs. Its net profit was $101 million in the six months ended December, compared with $150m the year before. Costs rose due to price hikes for ...15 hours ago
More new coronavirus cases have for the first time been reported outside China than inside, World Health Organisation chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has said. ...16 hours ago
New Zealand is flush with Lotto fever, with a $50 million must-win record jackpot up for grabs this Saturday. ...16 hours ago
Simon Bridges wouldn't deport mosque shooter Brenton Tarrant if found guilty despite calling for reciprocal policy; and Why climate change should be on the agenda for Jacinda meet Morrison. ...17 hours ago
An anonymous international student at the University of Auckland grapples with when and how she might return to NZ amid the coronavirus outbreak, and what challenges she will face if she makes it back. I am a Chinese international student at the University of Auckland. Having completed my language course and ...20 hours ago
When will there be a vaccine? What can we do and how do we stay up to date? Helen Petousis-Harris gives an update on the COVID-19 global health emergency Less than two months after China told the World Health Organisation there was a problem, a lot has happened. Sadly, deaths, confirmed ...20 hours ago
From February 28, Kiwibank will be cheque-free. Mark Jennings looks at how it has been preparing its customers for the big change. It’s raining heavily in Nelson, something it hasn’t done for a while. Local MP and former cabinet minister Nick Smith hurriedly climbs into an old bus parked outside the city’s library. ...20 hours ago
Experts in far-right extremism see a number of similarities between the Christchurch terror attack and last week's mass shooting in Hanau, Germany. Marc Daalder reports. On the evening of February 19, a man shot up two shisha bars frequented by Muslims in Hanau, Germany. It later emerged that he had released ...20 hours ago
ReadingRoom has devoted all week to the biggest-selling book in New Zealand right now, In The Clearing, a brilliant thriller by Ngāpuhi author JP Pomare, based on creepy Australian cult The Family. We conclude the series with a review by Bill Ralston. JP Pomare's second novel In ...20 hours ago
Up-and-coming teenage freeskiier Ruby Andrews has shown she has the boldness and the bravery to become one of the world's top women in not one, but three, different events. There’s no questioning Ruby Andrews’ grit and determination. While most 15-year-olds are spending this summer hanging with friends on the beach, Andrews ...20 hours ago
The global health emergency that is the Coronavirus - or Covid-19 - has become a game-changer for scientists around the world in terms of the speed of the response. But at the same time it's been termed a 'misinfodemic' Covid-19 – or coronavirus – is a game changer for scientists around the ...20 hours ago
Global health officials have declared the world is not ready for coronavirus - but can we be ready for future outbreaks? ...1 day ago
This week’s plummeting international stock markets are a sign the ‘best case scenario’ economic outcomes of the coronavirus are increasingly unlikely. And that’s a worry for NZ’s manufacturers. ...1 day ago
As part of the coalition government, the Green MPs have delivered us up the Zero Carbon Act. A reading of the Act reveals that it has not one single measure to cut GHG emissions, nor any measures at all to keep to the targets set out in it.
I defy anyone to say that it does.
Setting out targets is good, but with no measures to achieve them targets are meaningless.
I could set a target to be a millionaire in ten years.
I could even set down intermediate targets, that to reach my goal I will need to meet a target of a $100,000 a year.
Sorted.
To give myself further excuse not to implement any measures to achieve my target, I could push my millionaire target out to thirty years from now, so that no one can really check whether I achieve it or not.
I defy anyone, who after reading the Zero Carbon Act was to conclude, other than that, the Zero Carbon Act is a corrupt attempt to put off doing anything about climate change in the here and now.
I don't think so Jenny at all.
The political system has limits, no use putting up a bill that doesn't have support, from the electorate or coalition members
The zero carbon bill, and I agree with you , its severely limited, is an illustration of whats possible at the moment (in a time when benign dictators aren't a thing)
James did his best for cross party consensus. Don't blame him, blame the incremental nature of politics, and the resistance of dinosaurs
Get out on the street, encourage and join the kids on climate strike Fridays, build the movement for change,change your own life.
James did his best for cross party consensus.
Indeed he has done. This is how politics should be done and kudos for him for achieving this. It would not have been easy.
Don't blame him, blame the incremental nature of politics, and the resistance of dinosaurs
Human social groups, at whatever scale, have a fundamental problem to solve; how to respond to the unknown, the novel and to change. When faced with strangers, or new information and ideas, we have two possible responses. One is to open up and embrace them, the other is to close off and resist them. Crucially both strategies serve a purpose.
Being open means that you get first mover advantage with fresh ideas and can react to changing circumstances more rapidly. The downside is that not all strangers are benign, some will be dangerous and threatening. And not all new ideas are good ones, most in fact will fail … some fatally.
Being closed means that you avoid these risks, and by trusting the 'tried and true' it is more likely you will survive in the short term. This is important, there is no value to investing in a better future decades in the future, if you die this winter because the crops failed. But conversely resisting all innovation and novelty also ensures failure in the long-run; failure to adapt and being out-competed by more agile neighbours.
Obviously the correct solution is some balance between the two; but how? The same person cannot easily be both open and closed at the same time. Humans appear to have evolved a fascinating way to deal with it; some of us are open, some are closed. When faced with something new, we each respond according to our temperament and then we talk about it. We socially argue the case for and against and arrive at some consensus. We try the plan out, see what works and what didn't and repeat. It's quite a smart solution.
With climate change the process got subverted when the big fossil carbon players borrowed a strategy originally devised by the tobacco companies. The basic idea was not to win the argument, but to prevent consensus from being formed by provoking the resistance of the naturally cautious among us. And us more open types attacking them only makes them more cautious and more reactionary. (This too was part of the plan.)
It was only after we went for the tobacco companies themselves, the source of the disinformation, that we reached a consensus and took effective action. The same applies here, but on a larger scale.
But we are both open and closed aren't we?
We can be closed to social change yet open to economic change and vice versa
We are generally a mixture of fears and conservatism, optimism ,altruism and the whole bleeding mess
The time frame, the imminence of tipping point and collapse probably means that striving for consensus in a democracy just loses us more time .
I still think, lets shift our consciousness first, away from anthrocentrism at all costs, then whatever comes after(technological fixes, new strategies )is coming from an inclusive, sustainable and happier place
“I still think, lets shift our consciousness first, away from anthrocentrism at all costs, then whatever comes after(technological fixes, new strategies )is coming from an inclusive, sustainable and happier place"”
Well put.
But we are both open and closed aren't we?
True, but on any given issue we generally take one position at a time. Otherwise you run the risk of being perceived as 'talking out both sides of your mouth'.
The openness personality trait is highly predictive of holding to progressive or left wing political views and I'd wager most of the regulars here at TS are very open types. We have lots of different ideas and we debate them vigorously, but more closed conservative people are either rare or simply don't come here.
Yet in political terms they constitute roughly half the population, and in terms of my outline above … they serve a vital and useful purpose in the debate. Conservatives may frustrate the hell out of us, but in collective terms they usefully keep a society grounded and functioning on a day to day basis.
It's my view that progressives would achieve more if we approached them with this broader understanding and worked with their natures rather than against them. This would be inclusiveness at work, would it not?
Yes, I'm totally with you there.
actually it seems to be similar to what Jonathan Haidt argues in The Righteous Mind
Ha haaa ! … I recognise the Big Five Psychometrics when I see them.
Agreed.
The other thing is that putting up a bill destined to fail reminds me of a time I was writing a provisional report on a project, and drafted it "Some _____ refused to participate…". My boss pointed out that this essentially committed those non-participants to their position, and suggested the redraft "Some _____ were reluctant to participate". I learnt a lot from that boss.
Why Consensus Stinks!
The Australian term white-anting comes from the action of termites that hollow out and empty something that looks fine on the surface.
The Zero Carbon Bill is an example, white-anting any real action on climate change, looking substantial, but completely hollowed out of any real action.
The argument made for the Zero Carbon Bill by its supporters, is that we have to seek 'Consensus' with the National Party, otherwise when they get back into power they will repeal any concrete legislation we put in place.
Apart from being a weak defeatist position, this argument is actually not proven.
The Nats never repealed the Nuclear Free Legislation. Labour have never repealed the Anadarko Amendment. Phil Goff traveled the Country in a big red bus with "Kill The Bill" (the National Government Bill to increase GST to 15%) before admitting that if he was elected he wouldn't repeal it.
Consensus is not democracy it is an attack on democracy.
As Winston Churchill famously said, Democracy is the worst of all possible systems, except for all those others that have been tried.
Democracy has been described by its detractors as the dictatorship of the majority over the minority.
This is the sound of ideologies crashing, sang Billy Bragg
Consensus is an effort to paper over these differences between ideologies.
And it fits into one of those 'worst ways' Churchill spoke of.
Consensus is not democracy.
Consensus is going for the lowest possible denominator to achieve unanimity.
Consensus is an effort to silence and stifle political debate. To suffocate the sound of ideologies clashing.
The tragedy of Consensus politics is that it robs the electorate of making a clear choice between one way forward and another.
Consensus politics prevents us hearing the arguments between both ways forward, and for making an informed decision with our vote.
Consensus politics murders democracy in back room deals between politicians.
At its core what consensus politics displays, is a lack of faith in the people.
Consensus politics is an abrogation of leadership.
This government hates targets.
They keep showing them up as useless – needing a reset (kiwibuild anyone)
what they say is all fairy dust and aspirations – most of the time I’m sure they know they can’t deliver
Could just as easily be talking about National.
It's not thing unique to Labour… Governments hate measures. People can hold them to account.
I defy anyone, who after reading the Zero Carbon Act was to conclude, other than that, the Zero Carbon Act is a corrupt attempt to put off doing anything about climate change in the here and now.
Oh, fuck off. We went through this yesterday. If you don't understand why Labour/Green don't have either the numbers in Parliament or the electoral mandate to implement the policies you want to see, read up on the subject or just don't comment on it. Alleging corruption (even scummier than yesterday's accusation of cynicism) is a grotesque insult to people who had to fight hard to get even this level of legislation on the table and have shown a far greater commitment to doing something about it than you have.
If you want to see your preferred policies implemented, join one of those two parties and put in the hours and the money to help them get more MPs in Parliament. Insulting them from your armchair will just get you more "Fuck off"s.
It's a step, which I hope they follow up on soon. This government's actions for the poor are more indictable.
The art of the possible…..and why we fail.
So now Shaw is "corrupt". There is again only one reasonable response to your bile, fuck off.
So now Shaw is "corrupt".
I wonder if Shaw, Davidson and Ardern would prefer 'useless leaders' rather than 'corrupt'?
One description is acquired by simply failing to do what was promised (i.e. dealing to climate change with the same vigour and commitment as was afforded the nuclear free policy) while the other requires some forethought, planning and cooperation. One is simply passively muddling along while the other is deliberate and active.
The way I see it (from someone who bought the whole Green thing and voted accordingly, in a household where the rest largely voted Labour for the same reasons.) is that none of the above named party leaders have the heft of Winston.
A truly committed and charismatic leader would have been able to bring others along in such numbers that Winston's own caucus would have been putting pressure on him to at least meet L/G more than halfway, and the three could have all contributed to a Bill that we could have been proud of. As it is, we're left with a lilly livered and truly pathetic piece of legislation that condemns our children to a bleak future.
A pox on all their houses.
I'll fuck off now.
Breakfast in schools could have been implemented almost immediately, as one example of something useful this government could have done for children.
But they haven’t.
Yep, there are a few other of Hone Harawira's policies they could enact too.
A teacher aid in every class room was another I liked.
Yes, absolutely that too…
Restoring support services which were defunded and cut completely by the NACT government…support which was provided to many of the most at risk groups in NZ…
Support which is literally priceless…but for which proverbial pennies of funding per year (few millions)…in monetary cost to retain, restore and fund those same priceless services into the future…
Winston First is courting the rural vote and was always going to be a problem. If he can't hold those votes his party is gone. Letting the coalition fold would be a better option for him if the cost of maintaining it was to lose those votes. Where is all the criticism of NZF?
Where is all the criticism of NZF?
I take it as read that we all know that 'the problem' is Winston….I suspect there are NZF Members who would dearly like to participate more positively in climate change mitigation…but there's Winston….and he doesn't give a shit.
He just gets to sit at the table again, play kingmaker again, handicap real transformative policy implementation again.
His voter base are dying out.
And none too soon.
The leaders of the other two coalition parties need to do much, much better.
The leaders of the other two coalition parties need to do much, much better.
I still have no idea what it is that you would have them do.
His voter base are dying out.
Winston's old people constituency is starting to die out, that is why he has so much invested in the rural vote.
I still have no idea what it is that you would have them do.
Let's see now….how about…./the-green-party-policy-manifesto-full-costed-and-seriously-progressive/
and….https://www.labour.org.nz/climatechange
As for the 'rural vote', again, the generation of farmers with callous disregard for the environment are a dying breed. Many farmers now see that SSDD (literally) practices are not sustainable and change needs to be sped up. Shaw near breathlessly reassuring us that there is 'no need to reduce stock numbers' when even many farmers know there are plenty of good reasons to was just sad.
I'm not claiming to have the answers, I'm just telling it as I see it. The Zero Carbon Act is a joke if its purpose is to mitigate the effects of climate change. Only true and decisive leaders with definitive policies and messaging will effect change.
We're told repeatedly we are approaching climate change crisis…you'd never believe that going on the response from our government.
I still have no idea what it is that you would have them do. It is irrelevant what Green and Labour policy is if Winston is better off to end the coalition than support it.
Farmers are still the biggest sector opposing meaningful Climate policy. Have you not been paying attention?
Public disagreement that outlines the stumbling blocks would be a good start. Then the discourse is out in the open, and the general public get to decide for themselves who is looking out for future interests and who are looking to protect their positions.
It seems that at the moment, even those who voted for this coalition government are not permitted to critique their performance. And unfortunately criticisms are often valid, and if they are not even acknowledged and used to improve then we have a coalition government that is trending towards the arrogance and disregard of the previous.
The consequences of climate change, insecure housing, appalling child poverty, our health system and inequality do not lie in suspended animation until the next electoral term, they impact on us all now – some much more than others. My impetus as a voter for addressing these issues is not to maintain the employment status of my limited choice of politicians, but to continue to ask for change in these matters.
Politicians should not be so concerned with polling and reelection, that they don't use the opportunity they possess to start public awareness and discussion. This coalition government is not even progressing in that department.
If you don't think that Shaw has been promoting public awareness and facilitating discussion then you are not worthy of a reply.
@ solkta. This kind of dismissal is what I am talking about.
The deference shown by Shaw for the farmers concern about methane limits, is not based on science or acknowledgement of what needs to be done. If I was not aware of the issues of climate change, and was not yet informed of the immediacy of need for transition, then seeing James Shaw – leader of the Green Party – on television, downplaying these issues and congratulating this coalition government on coming to an agreement – would have a negative impact, along the lines of:
"Even the Green Party leader is not concerned about methane, or feels that a carbon-zero bill that aspires without consequence to a carbon-free 2050 goal is worth pursuing."
For those in New Zealand whose current knowledge of the issues of climate change are non-existent or slight, this will be one of their main news items on this topic. Disturbingly, it will reassure many that if even the Greens are not concerned, the status quo can continue for the foreseeable future.
Does this explain the disquiet that I share with others on this forum?
Let's see now….how about…./the-green-party-policy-manifesto-full-costed-and-seriously-progressive/
and….https://www.labour.org.nz/climatechange
OK, how about them? The parties with those policies have 43% of the vote, ie 53 out of 120 MPs in Parliament. Please explain why you believe it would be possible for that minority of MPs to enact those policies as legislation in their entirety. And not just why it would be possible, but why it's so obviously possible that you feel free to berate the parties' leadership for failing to do it.
26 May 2019 at 1:58 pm
….Please explain why you believe it would be possible for that minority of MPs to enact those policies as legislation in their entirety. And not just why it would be possible, but why it's so obviously possible that you feel free to berate the parties' leadership for failing to do it.
Hi Psycho,
I could name half a dozen green policies that the Green MPs have refused to champion in government.
The iniquitous Anadarko Amendment to the RMA that makes it illegal to protest deep sea oil drilling. Is one of the things that the Green Party have refused to try and repeal, The law that makes it illegal to raise climate change in consent hearings for new fossil fuel projects is another piece of iniquitous piece of legislation that the Greens are happy to leave in place, for the sake of 'consensus'.
At a time when many voters have trouble telling the political parties apart, the last thing we need is more consensus between them.
Consensus muffles the sound of 'ideologies clashing' making it harder to differentiate between the parties vying for our vote.
Let's have the arguments out, let us hear them.
Consensus turns the political spectrum into one whole amorphous mass.
If all the parties have consensus on climate change why vote for the Greens? Indeed what is the need for a Green Party? We are all in agreement. We have achieved consensus.
One of the key demands of XR is for 'politicians to tell the truth about climate change' papering over the differences between political parties on this issue, is not telling the truth about climate change, it is covering up the truth about climate change.
Do you not realise that many NZF voters are National defectors who can't cope with voting Labour or Green and that if it collapses they will probably go back to National? And then we would have a National government again. This coalition government has to make many compromises, but half a loaf is better than no bread.
Don't think so.
The various iterations of the New Zealand Election Study (2008-2014) suggest those swinging to NZF have disproportionately been former Labour voters (& – as with most smaller parties – switchers comprise a significant segment of NZF support).
What's more, NZF voters have chosen Labour as their preferred Coalition partner in 3 out of the last 4 General Elections (including overwhelmingly in 2017).
solkta
I'd estimate NZF received a little over 60% of its 2017 vote from both Metro & Provincial City seats. So, all things being equal, he probably only needs to hold around a third of his Rural / Small Town vote to be sure of returning.
Your estimate is meaningless until you back it up with some stats. Even if you are right that doesn't mean Winston is prepared to take the risk or have a smaller presence and say no thanks to those votes. As he straddles the centre he needs to appear to both his left and right flanks that he is protecting their interests.
(1)
No, it certainly wouldn't be his aim … but I do take issue with the idea that holding / expanding his rural vote is an absolute necessity.
(2)
Started by adding the NZF Party-Vote in all Metro (Akld / Wgtn / Chch) & Provincial City seats (ranging in city size from Gisborne (East Coast) up to the two Dunedin & two Hamilton seats).
Then (based on a rough estimation), I subtracted the likely Rural / Small Town NZF vote in those Provincial City seats that weren't entirely urban … then added the likely Urban NZF vote from the Maori seats (as with the General Roll Provincial Centres, this was according to a broad estimation of what proportion of Maori seats were urban / rural).
Made some allowance for error within my estimation.
Then simply calculated the final result as a proportion of the entire Nationwide NZF Party-Vote in 2017.
Hence, I'd estimate NZF received somewhere between 59%-62% of its 2017 Party-Vote from both Metro & Provincial City seats.
It is possible to be very precise … but that would involve going through every single booth in the Provincial Cities … but, you know, benefits considerably less than the enormous energy invested … law of diminishing returns
(3)
The various iterations of the New Zealand Election Study (2008-2014) suggest:
– those swinging to NZF have disproportionately been former Labour voters (& – as with most smaller parties – switchers comprise a significant segment of NZF support). Over those 3 consecutive Elections, around two-thirds of switchers to Winston's Party came courtesy of the Left (overwhelmingly former Labour supporters … but also a small segment of former Greens) / one-third from the Right (overwhelmingly former National voters … but also a sizeable minority from ACT / Cons / Maori Party). (my calculations from raw Flow-of-the-Vote stats from the 08-14 NZES).
– NZF voting-base can best be seen as a segment of the morally-conservative Left. Most of the latter group still vote Labour, but a section swung to NZF back in the 90s, while even more have moved in Winston's direction over the last two decades. (Although they haven’t always remained particularly Loyal).
– Which, in turn, explains why (as I pointed out to JanM) NZF voters have chosen Labour as their preferred Coalition partner in 3 out of the last 4 General Elections (including overwhelmingly in 2017).
So what I'm suggesting at (3), just to be clear, is that the Right-leaning component of NZF's support-base is relatively small.
Yes … Winston's voters do tend toward moral conservatism on the Liberal / Libertarian vs Conservative / Authoritarian Moral spectrum.
But on the other key axis – the classic one – the Left vs Right Economic spectrum … a very large majority of them are on the Left.
Thanks swordfish, I do appreciate your analysis.
Cheers.
It is too easy (and convenient) to apportion the lack with Winston, as you note there must also be a willingness to prevaricate on the part of the other parties….and expressions of anger and disappointment are to be expected just as they are frequently on other topics, and rightly so otherwise everyone would have fucked off long ago
The nuclear-free legislation was enacted without any negotian needed, by a Labour government that held 56 of the 95 seats in Parliament. If the Green Party currently held 55% of the seats in Parliament, I expect the Zero Carbon Act would look very different – wouldn't you agree? But they don't hold 55% of the seats in Parliament, they hold 7%. Can you see how that might make a very big difference to their legislative ability?
Re "charismatic leadership," NZ First is a party of provincial conservatism and its fundamental principles are in some respects completely opposed to those of Labour and the Greens. Environmental policy is one of those areas. How do you picture "charismatic leadership" getting a party to go against its fundamental principles? For instance, can you picture a charismatic National leader getting the Green Party to cooperate with it on an extensive programme of privatisation?
“I’ll fuck off now.”
Perhaps you should, because that's a terrible summary of events and an unrealistic belief a party not even in a coalition government can set such an agenda.
The only way to get hard green policy is to vote for more green mps.
The only way to get hard green policy is to vote for more green mps.
If by Green you mean more of what we have in parliament now claiming such…then maybe not.
Hard Green Policy would compromise New Zealand's national security posture. It's standard Green Party Defence policy to cut tier 1 defence assets, frigate, P8 and anything over 50cal. That these defence assets is vital in securing not only New Zealand's natural resources but that of the South Pacific as well means the Greens will not be able to pull the majority to their side.
Yeah, them, the ones you claim to have voted for.
I hear your frustration and disappointment Rosemary.
Being the eternal optimist, I reckon voting for more Green MPs emboldens the other MPs, provides leadership for the public and direction for business.
But would it really make a difference?
They still wouldn't have king maker leverage.
They've shown they'd prefer to be in the tent than out. So no leverage there.
Thus, they would still end up being the smaller partner of Labour that prefers not to rock the boat.
If there were 30 green mps, they'd have plenty of leverage, and plenty of green policy. You just have to vote for them instead of whining about how useless they are.
And where do you think those extra votes would come from?
The reason being. Last election when Labour dropped to 24% and the Greens were polling at 15% Labour claimed they wouldn't look at forming a Government with Little stating Labour would need a considerably greater share of the vote to form a government. Despite (at 24%) still potentially having the numbers to form a Government.
Therefore, it seems Labour would have rather let National win than be forced to work with a stronger Green party.
Less of the goal post moving and more substance to the point.
If you want more green policy there has to be more green mps. That must be a given. Knowing this, bashing the greens for not doing enough when they don't have the numbers to force legislation is an admission of not understanding how parliament works, or an excuse to put the boot in to suit an agenda… Or both.
Wasn't moving the goal posts, just pointing out Labour's preference when it comes to working with a stronger Greens.
Therefore, even with greater numbers they'd still end up being the smaller partner of Labour that prefers not to rock the boat.
Having leverage without the backbone to use it means little. And the one thing the Greens have shown is they have no spine.
Once you admit there needs to be many more green mps in the house, in government, to push through green policy, then we can talk about where they come from.
Over to you.
I'm not bashing the Greens for not having the numbers. I'm bashing them for not using their nous and showing us what work they are actually doing to help achieve more.
Your bashing them for not getting radical green policy through the house which is because, again, they don't have the numbers to do so.
Do you accept the greens need more mps, and actually in government to enact their preferred legislation?
I admit if the Greens had the numbers to win an election that (more green policy) would be what one would expect. However, that is highly unlikely on their current and past polling. Moreover, very unlikely on their current performance in this term.
That's a start, which kind of puts your unreal expectations of what a minor party can achieve, in some sort of context.
Now lets expand a little and say nz1st weren’t in the picture. You’d expect the greens to get a little more through, right?
No. And now I'm going to call you on your bullshit. Prove it. Where have I bashed them for not not getting radical green policy through the house?
Taking their policy is in general 'radical' for NZ, you've consistently bashed them for watering down or not getting what they sought. No cites needed, it's archived. Even in these exchanges you've bemoaned them for not achieving and doing enough to get elected in greater numbers.
You’re fifth column.
That's incorrect. You've been called out. Therefore, cites are indeed needed.
Furthermore, you initially stated radical Green policy now you are shifting the goal posts by claiming that all their policy is radical. In which case you should have initially stated all Green policy. Therefore, best you stick to cites that reflect your initial assertion which is radical Green policy and not all Green policy which you are now attempting to reach for.
Additionally, me bemoaning them for not doing enough to get elected in greater numbers also doesn't prove your initial assertion.
Nope, no cites needed, as all your anti green comments are archived, as will your efforts from today will be.
If there's a mod call to find posts where you have criticised the greens for not getting that policy through unfettered, then sure I'll list some, but prepared as I am, as they are numerous and no doubt fresh in the minds of most green voters here to gain consensus for my statement, I'm sure that call won't come.
Not from me, it won’t.
Onya
It wasn't that Labour could not work with a stronger Green Party, they had an MOU and lots of policy in common, it was more that Winston wouldn't have been able to deal with the Greens being a bigger partner.
You are as transparent as a transparent thing. A really crap troll.
Labour weren't even prepared to find that out. Therefore, their unwillingness to even have a crack at strongly it suggests it was Labour putting the kibosh on it (working with a stronger Greens).
On those numbers you gave above 24% and 15%, of course there was no way to form a government. How on 39% do you propose they had a chance?
But guaranteed, if that were even remotely possible, with that ratio, you'd have many green ministers and much more real green policy getting legislated. Fact. And you’d still moan about it.
But of course you know under MMP there was a potential to if they were willing to talk to NZF, which Labour wasn't prepared to do.
In fact, Little wasn't even prepared to give a number/percentage on where they would actually consider it (forming a Government).
At the time, even with nz1st, it wasn't doable on the numbers, and then if it were, what Solkta wrote above.
Yes, it was. Even Guyon was taken back at Little's/Labour's poisition.
As I said to solkta, Labour weren't even prepared to find that out.
And it was this unwillingness to even have a crack at it that strongly suggests it was Labour putting the kibosh on it (working with a stronger Greens).
It's speculative at best to assume winston would have gone with labour and the greens at that level of support for the green party and accepting a minor position as last cab off the rank, and in playing for more votes, to rule out dealing with nz1st, I can see why Little could have backtracked, but solkta's scenario seems far more plausible.
Your interpretation seems way off by comparison.
Yes, which is why I said potentially could form a Government.
Nevertheless, you clearly or is that purposely missed the point?
Being, Labour ruled it out from the get go. Therefore, it was never going to get to the negotiation stage.
Which is the point. Labour shut this potential down before even giving it a chance.
You can't blame that on Winston.
I don't blame anyone for hypothetical postulations, just question the motive of those raising them.
I question the notion the Greens are going to get more support on the grounds of their current performance.
And they are quickly running out of time to up their game.
I did vote for them. Which helped them into power only for us to find out how useless they really are.
Therefore, if they continue to remain useless they can't really expect more people to vote for them.
So you clearly don't know how mmp works in government, and choose to blame the small number of green mps, not even part of the formal coalition, for having to compromise and not being able to effect radical change they want to.
No. That is a strawman. My position is stated above.
But your position is crap and based on a total bollocks understanding of how much a very small number of green mps can achieve under a confidence and supply arrangement.
My position is based on their dreadful performance to date. And is shared by many. Even within the Greens, they know they have been lacking the fight, made many mistakes, and have swallowed too many dead rats.
You trying to blame this on my misunderstanding is a joke.
See that's where you fall down. You don't accept that in this government they are bit players having to compromise to get anything, and the only way to change that is to have more green mps and get them in a proper coalition.
And I don’t think your misunderstanding is a joke, I think it’s quite deliberate.
Not at all. Those failures mentioned are admitted by the Greens themselves.
Without addressing their weaknesses, achieving more MPs is very unlikely. And merely securing more without addressing their weaknesses is unlikely to improve their performance.
What seems to be deliberate is your failure to see and understand this.
The weakness is they don't have the numbers to roll out their ideas without compromise 🙄
No genuine green voter is going to turn on the party because they aren't pumping out their policies ten to the dozen. They know, just like I do, that you can only do what you can with what you have.
Most greens will be encouraged to push harder in the run up to 2020 and work for the party and it’s ideals, not sit on the sidelines and cry crocodile tear laments.
I'm not denying I go the Greens. Almost everyone knows that. But I have a go at them on valid grounds. Which is why most rebuttals end up being directed at me and not the valid points I've raised.
Yes, most understand that. However, that's not the weaknesses I just alluded to above, which the Greens themselves largely admit. And it is these weaknesses that they require to correct to better perform, which will help grow their support and performance going forward.
You can't expect them to substantially grow their vote on their current performance – and their polling largely reflects that.
I don't expect them to be pumping out policies ten to the dozen, that's just you trying to suggest I'm some kind of extremist expecting them to perform beyond reality.
The reality is, they've made a number of costly mistakes, they lack backbone, and failed to gain fair compensation for the dead rats swallowed. Furthermore, they talk a lot about pushing hard for certain issues but show little if anything on the work being done in regards to those issues and the progress being made or setbacks faced.
Go on then, what are their self confessed weaknesses they need to correct to better perform and grow their support going forward?
@The Chairman …
26 May 2019 at 3:
speaking if bile – you seem to be full of it of late.
Perhaps you you should try fucking off yourself and come back when you are a little more cherry.
[Hi James, why don’t you try your own recipe? – Incognito]
See my Moderation note @ 12:57 PM.
Would that be the cherry on top of the icing on the cake?
I don't like cherries or icing, just for the record.
Noted.
Seen and noted. Thanks.
noted (and taken on board) – but please note that this is in reply to A poster who seems to have lernt a new term “fuck off” and is quite happy to tell people to do so should they dare to say something he/she didn’t like.
I know, James, I’m reading the same comments as you are. Inflaming is not helpful, and you know this full well, so I shouldn’t have had to warn you.
Putting words in my mouth again Solkta?
I never said that James Shaw was corrupt. I said, (and I quote), "the Zero Carbon Act is a corrupt attempt to put off doing anything about climate change in the here and now."
Possibly a bad choice of word, I could have said is a 'corrupted attempt'. It is corrupted by the very nature of the process.
James Shaw is trying to solve a political problem, by bureaucratic means. A political problem cannot be solved with bureaucratic means. This just cannot work.
The problem; National Party’s intransigence over climate change. This political problem cannot be solved by pandering to National. In my opinion National's intransigence over climate change must be confronted openly and publicly denounced and demolished, it’s called politics.
History shows that a leader convinced of the rightness of their cause and with the confidence to get up and openly and courageously fight for it, can win over a majority from a minority position.
It's called leadership.
And it does not depend on the size of your majority (or lack of) in the house.
In prewar England the wealthy class and their political representatives, the Conservative Party were riddled with fascist appeasers and fifth columnists and even open fascist sympathisers. Churchill who had been elected into the house as a sole 'independent' MP for his Constitutionalist Party, (You couldn't get a more minority position), did not try to make peace with these appeasers, from his seat in the back benches, he denounced them at every opportunity.
The rest is history.
Another example is over the debate over nuclear ship visits. The Labour Party from the opposition benches through the strength of their argument was able to win over the majority of parliament to support a minority private members bill to ban nuclear ships. Which two National MPs crossed the floor to support.
Again, the rest is history.
This is how political differences are fought out.
In my opinion, in trying to seek common ground with the National Party, James Shaw has not just given up on politics, he has given up on leadership.
I watched the introduction of the Zero Carbon bill on Tuesday and observed the Children's strike later that same week.
The kids have got it right – this catastrophe is beyond tinkering.
But I've commented more fully on 'How to get there.'
Problem is your “How you get there antidote” is about as deep as a puddle on practicality and as a workable solution Are you a secondary school student
Bewildered doesn't attempt a practical answer to anything because '"Everything may be done, but nothing should be done for the first time'. Yes Minister. e&oe
Randomised controlled trials – comparing one action to a different action – are the obvious and proven way to work out how to do things better. Yet somehow, when it comes to some fields, large numbers apparently believe it's immoral to conduct RCTs. WTF?
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/5/25/18637156/randomized-trials-immoral-study
This makes me curious enough to want to do a small study on how The Standard community interprets data from studies.
Imagine tribbles escape from the South England Spaceport, and their expanding population is nearing womble habitats. The Society for Womble Protection are concerned that wombles sharing their habitat with tribbles will adversely affect them, so they run a trial putting wombles and tribbles together sharing the same spaces.
Wombles are well studied, there are 80 independent tests, measurements etc that are done to measure womble well-being. As is common, p<0.05 is adopted as the significance level for reporting a result suggesting adverse effects (less than 1/20 probability of the observed result happening by chance).
The SWP study checked all 80 markers, and reported they observed the test wombles had more nugs on their nagunoids than normal, and elevated miasmia levels.
These results were of concern to three other groups, who then repeated the study as closely as possible. None observed increased numbers of nugs or increased miasmia, but one group found depressed motivon levels, the second group observed increased hyperchitinism, the third group observed increased thyromia activity and decreased collaberism.
So all up, four groups each studied studied the 80 possible indicators of decreased womble well-being, and there were 6 results suggesting adverse effects outside the normal range.
I'm curious what first impressions The Standard participants get from these results, and what next steps readers think should be taken. Such as, OMG, six demonstrated risks, tribbles must be immediately contained then eradicated to protect wombles. Or, meh, the data looks all good for the wombles to me. Or, the four studies show conflicting results, we need to do more studies. Or, whatever else you come up with.
My first instinctive reaction is that our old friend Bayes is lurking within this data somewhere, but I lacked a justifiable prior to make a case.
Assuming that each of the four studies reported their adverse findings at a p<0.05 level, then the next obvious question is why did all four find significant adverse outcomes, but all found different ones? Clearly like many sociological results we're suffering from a bad lack of replicability here.
On this basis I would conclude that our four studies suggest there something going on, after all none of them found no adverse effect, so they don't support the null hypothesis (ie no adverse effect at all) … but neither do they prove one. We're really no better off than if the studies had not been done at all.
But because we have only one population of wombles, and apparently isolating one randomised, unbiased sample of them from trimbles is not possible … then the gold standard of RCT's looks impossible to implement.
I'm curious to know if there is a way around this problem.
I tried really hard to set it up so that if Bayes came sniffing around I could tell him to fuck right off, it's none of his business.
As far as the randomised controlled trials part of it goes, imagine it has been previously established that wombles suffer no ill-effects from being confined to enclosures by themselves. And that it has been previously established that there are some other critters that wombles can co-exist with in enclosures without suffering ill-effects, while there's some other critters that do cause ill-effects when enclosed with wombles.
I would be very suspicious of the findings that purport to show that wobbles,
"suffer no ill-effects from being confined to enclosures by themselves."
For which of God's creatures is that true?
Models for considering should have real "players" as their subjects or you'll end up with findings that don't mirror reality.
I'm getting the impression your base position is that natural systems are so complex that trials inherently oversimplify things and can therefore never produce reliable data. Is that close to being a fair interpretation of your view?
In the case of mammals the size of wobbles, yes. If your scenario revolved around say, bacteria, then there's more chance of a valid result. Wombles are sentient beings, so they may conspire to mislead you; have you taken that into account
Thanks, that covers the question I had in mind at the start of this thread.
But given your position as a councillor that may be called on to make some kind of call on whether to accept or reject something new and how to regulate it, I'm still curious about how you view the numbers. Imagine it was something simple and controlled enough you were comfortable that controlled trials produced useful valid results.
Say, allowing autonomous delivery vehicles to replace posties and couriers.
So of 80 factors examining previous areas where autonomous deliveries were allowed, the first study found increased unemployment, and more cats getting scared away from their homes (p<0.05). The subsequent three studies did not find increased unemployment or more cats going missing. One study found more complaints of residents' driveways getting blocked by the new autonomous vehicles than used to be blocked by human drivers, one study found more problems with junk mail littering the streets, one study found more complaints of misdelivered mail and more complaints of bored dogs barking because posties didn't stop and play with them anymore (ok, I'm reaching).
Do you think these four studies show allowing autonomous delivery vehicles will cause increased problems? What next steps would you want to take?
Really, really sorry for butting in but no way do we want to take humans totally out of the loop. Eisenhower when he coined the term Militray Industrial Complex was warning of the profit motive of war.
Ron Mark Minster of Defence dosnt want full autonomous war fighting. Could you imagine a war fought with all drones. War between drones dosnt have to stop.
So these guys pushing drone technology are flooding the private sector and making up the worlds boardrooms and it's them pushing full autonomous networks for profit and well, we have to be conscious of the military applications at the same time.
At the same time Weaponising drones isn't something that's in New Zealand's control. We've got China and America vying for technological supremacy and apart of that will eventually spill over into robot wars. So there's this double wade sword again of progress and innovation or not being able to keep pace with innovation.
Perhaps we we should be asking whether or not an autonomous network should be privately owned or publicly owned.
Actually the question is…
Will autonomous networks be controllable by human beings…
And the answer is already out there.
No. They won't be. That point, has been passed.
It's not just ownership that would be an issue. Companies have personhood. So these robots wouldn't just have the same rights as humans they would have extra rights, for one they don't pay taxes. We can't eat robots so can't hunt them. They will be competing for the same resources and jobs as humans but we won't be able to attack them like an animal because they will have the same rights as a company would have. So no, I don't think auto networks should be privately owned. Whether or not it is a mature technology does not preclude a future government from regulating the industry. Laws lag notoriously far behind tech innovations anyway.
personhood.
Yes quite. And that is also relevant to the discussion…
Robots however are only one component of a discussion around automation
Private automation co-exists with public automation…
Public or private as a legal construct won't alter that human beings are not in control of present day automation…
And therefore…can't be in control of future automation…
I get you were referencing <em>warfare…</em>
I'm referencing the entirity of automation…which includes human beings as a component of the processes…processes which are rendering our speicies…irrelevant.
Yeah, we killed God when she gave birth to us and AI will kill us when we birth AI. My only hope is transcendencing by uploading my consciousness into a computer. It's the closest humans can possibly get to God like, all knowing and that.
We are just entering the 4th industrial revolution of AI. We don't even know what technologies are installed for humanity but if competition for resources can be controlled by making technology so cheap, technology doesn’t have to be free, just so cheap every one can participate.
And the answer is already out there.
It is? I haven't heard of an autonomous network that actually exists. Which one are you referring to, and what's the basis for your belief that it's no longer controllable by humans?
…AI will kill us when we birth AI. My only hope is transcendencing by uploading my consciousness into a computer.
If the computers intend your death, it hardly seems likely they'd volunteer to host your consciousness.
Well I understood what onesies said. To mean a technological paradigm shift. Arguably paradigm shifts are out of the control of humans.
While this may be the inevitable long-term future of society, I see this as nothing but an extremely bad idea.
Then again, I have objections to anything even remotely like Pornhub meets Startrek holodedks the PG version (to hell with centralization), so I'm unfairly biased.
When considering the scientific approach to everything and putting rationality and practicality (apparent) as first and foremost in decision making, I recall the opinion of Aldous Huxley expressed to George Orwell on his book '1984', that the demand for efficiency will ruin our civilisation.
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/03/1984-v-brave-new-world.html
Aldous Huxley –
…May I speak instead of the thing with which the book deals — the ultimate revolution? The first hints of a philosophy of the ultimate revolution — the revolution which lies beyond politics and economics, and which aims at total subversion of the individual's psychology and physiology…
My own belief is that the ruling oligarchy will find less arduous and wasteful ways of governing and of satisfying its lust for power…can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging and kicking them into obedience. In other words, I feel that the nightmare of Nineteen Eighty-Four is destined to modulate into the nightmare of a world having more resemblance to that which I imagined in Brave New World.
The change will be brought about as a result of a felt need for increased efficiency.
So while Random Controlled Trials and other scientific methods are useful in making decisions, the question remains as to which decisions, and who or what do they serve? Is it 'good and cost-efficient government, respectful of the wellbeing of all people and thinking of all sentient and other living things of the earth – now realised as so important ie fungi in the soil? Or is it serving some obsessive need of a group who have divorced themselves from everyday simple living which is all that is needed by human society?
"Do you think these four studies show allowing autonomous delivery vehicles will cause increased problems? "
Each of them shows an increased problem. None were supported by any other study. Overall, no valid statement about increased problems can be made based on those studies, imo.
What next steps would you want to take?"
Introduce the vehicles. Field complaints, compiling data until causation is established, adjust their use until a happy medium, agreed to by most, is reached. It's rough, but hey, why not take a punt
Actually, I'd want to debate the issue with my fellow councillors, hear from our expert staff , hear from the promoters/designers of the technology, invite comment from other councils using the vehicles, then petition the public for their views.
How's that?
Thanks. FWIW, it's at the better end of what I might hope for from an elected official.
I'm curious, is that response informed by any further education in formal statistics beyond what you had to do in high school, or is it the outcome of a lifetime of trying different things to see what happens?
Well, as a councillor, I follow process when it comes to such decisions but as well I try to influence what gets considered in less formal forums involving councillors and staff.
Is this what they call empirical study, trying and seeing?
Dougal and Father Ted calmly cope with some aggrieved bomb planting.
Sorry about the distance of my response from your question.
My first thought when faced with ambiguous data is to ask if Mr Bayes is at work here, but I'll take it as read that this isn't the case here.
The core problem is the lack of replicability. All four studies found statistically significant adverse effects but not the same ones. Not even an overlap.
The next place to look is given there are 80 possible adverse effects we could find, and our definition of 'statistical significant' is a 1/20 probability on each one … what is the probability that we will find at least some adverse effects just by random chance?
At the risk of embarrassing my rusty stats, my first wild arse guess that it could be 20/80 or 1 in 4. Or another way of putting it, any given study will find on average 4 different adverse effects purely by chance.
Ok, since we're both engineers and our reasoning heads down similar paths, can I ask you to pause it here for a while to see what other people's reactions are, untainted by what we've got to say?
"so they run a trial putting wombles and tribbles together sharing the same spaces."
I need to know more about these trials; how closely do the conditions reflect the real-world situation; laboratory conditions need to be very carefully set and results looked at cautiously. Wombles in particular act quite differently when removed from the commons.
See my response to RL at 2.1.1. In short, imagine it has already been established that results from putting wombles in enclosures produces valid results.
My initial reaction would be that, if different people are repeating the same study as closely as possible and each getting a different result, the study isn't telling us anything useful. The method would need some pretty serious review at that point.
I reckon the wombles are pulling Andre's chain
Well, where I'm going with this is trying to show that a claimed statistically significant result is actually much less reliable than you might think from the claimed p value. For this example, I'm trying to show that six reported statistically significant results doesn't show there's likely problems, and in fact is more likely to show the opposite on further analysis.
After all, even if the researchers act with perfect integrity using sound methods, publish all their results including all the negative and neutral results, if what's considered statistically significant is p<0.05, then 1 in 20 of all results are just plain wrong.
But when you add in publication bias (negative and neutral results are boring so nobody tries to publish them), and the way it's so very tempting to indulge in data-dredging and p-hacking when you've got a massive pile of data, it's no wonder there's a replication crisis.
Noting your question of Robert Guyton above, "is that response informed by any further education in formal statistics beyond what you had to do in high school," I can boast a C+ achieved in a remedial intro stats course aimed at first-year students who were going to need to understand stats but hadn't done well at it in school (at which point I decided the arts and humanities were going to be a more appropriate arena for my clearly limited talents). So yes, definitely not qualified to be making confident assertions about anything involving statistics.
That said, the ordinary old arts and humanities have given me enough of an education to figure out that it's completely dishonest to comb academic journals for that one line or bad result that supports your irrational beliefs and trumpet the cherry-picked fruits of your search as compelling evidence that irrationalism rules – which I think is where you were also going with this.
That question wasn't intended as an assertion of superiority accruing to those with paper quals; a bullshit detector developed from a lifetime of observation is often more useful in arriving at a sensible position when faced with unclear or even contradictory data. Then there's the problem of paper quals getting pressed into the service of baffling with bullshit, rather than trying to aid understanding.
Looking at the responses, common themes are questioning the methodology of the studies, and raising potential external factors not considered by the studies. Here I'm trying to raise awareness that a lot of what are presented as meaningful results are in fact just cherry-picked instances of random noise that are going to happen even in well-designed honestly conducted studies.
I knew it!
That question wasn't intended as an assertion of superiority accruing to those with paper quals…
I certainly didn't take it that way, just as an opportunity to make clear that any comments I make on social science studies are definitely not based on my expertise in the field of statistics.
These days I kind of wish I'd paid more attention back then because it would come in handy very often, given all the news stories about "new study shows X" that make my bullshit detector clang away but I don't have enough knowledge to go look at the actual study to see where the grift is.
My first impression was why did you link to the pop vox article and not the original one?
Original article: "morally problematic"
Vox: "We even use A/B tests here at Vox. If I have two headlines I really love for a story, I can arrange for different viewers to see different ones — and then I can settle on the one that’s engaging more readers."
Ta daaaa!
Vox headline: "A shocking share of the public thinks randomized trials are immoral"
As for the scenario you present, and being rubbish at stats, my first impression is that we may need to go back to basics and do some RCTs on Womble well-being measurements if four different groups can get very different results. An RCT based on suspect methodology is going to be suspect.
Sorry I'm a bit slow addressing why I linked the Vox piece rather than the original study. The original study report is a bit dry and tl;dr-ish; the Vox piece is quite a lot more readable and links to the original report for anyone that wants. The Vox piece also usefully points to further implications and questions to ponder.
There are two important things straight off
1) What were the size of the RCT? Which gives the related question – what were the power of the hypothesis tests?
2) There needs to be context here. What is the value of the wombles and tribbles? Are wombles native so deserving greater protection? What are the possible unintended consequences? Is the eco-balance between wombles and shelats destroyed as the sehlat population explodes because of the extra tribble food?
Just to add extra factors. What about a different type of thinking? Are the automated vehicles needed? Are they better from APOV than at present? Is capital expenditure on them justified whether public or private – being that they will likely have to be imported?
Is it justified for us to have a permissive society of the type that says that society has to definitely opt out if business or whoever,can just opt in? Will Uber try and take over this initiative and muck it up for any former investors, start-ups?
Say compare the rules of the sex- controlled society to the society that is entirely permissive of new innovations of machines and technology? Would it be better to swap so that we are controlling of this new innovative acceptance of machines, and more permissive of sexuality? I think of the raunchy, rude meaning behind the Beatles song "Why don't we do it in the road"? Sex in the road is regarded as bad because society says so, and it is impractical anyway. But new technology on the road is accepted whether it has entirely practical uses without question, and of course it is now being forced on us on the footpath.
These perspectives would never be considered by engineers. And it indicates how slow we are to understand the great changes being forced on us. These will affect our human lives to becoming subservient to the machines that business corporates, a machine-like management system itself, forces on us. And that we people embrace, because – new, because it is 'better', because they are ubiquitous – better lie down and let machines and machine-thinking roll over you.
Douglas Adams looked at that inevitably approach – the taking of personal assets and commons by authority – when he had Arthur Dent lie in front of roadmaking machines that were going to bulldoze his house so a Council-endorsed road go pass over the land. And slyly, he introduced the method of substitution that is at the base of using derivatives in financial transactions. But that is another matter.
(Share and enjoy says the automated teamaker.(
Thank you to everybody that engaged with the actual topic. But I gotta say I'm disappointed that there are some commenters active today that are in the habit of opining definitively and loudly on topics where an understanding of data and statistics is crucial, who have chosen not to engage.
Personally when I need to understand data sets, one of the first things I look for is the underlying natural background incidence of what I'm interested in. Together with some kind of expectation (cue Tommy Bayes asking why I told him to fuck off) of how genuinely significant results might be distinguished from random noise.
In the specific case of examining 80 independent distributions of samples for comparison to controls or a baseline at p<0.05 considered significant, I would actually expect an average of 4 "false positive" results, or 16 "false positives" on average from running 4 lots of 80. The fact that none of the positives from any one of the trials were repeated in any of other trials suggests they are all false positives.
That there were far fewer "positive" results than would be expected from purely random statistical considerations immediately raises the question of whether there is an effect going in the opposite direction to what was originally expected. Might the data actually show that cohabiting with tribbles actually improves wombles' well-being? That would be an immediate quick bit of number-crunching to run, and on the numbers I've used for this made-up scenario, I'd strongly expect that answer to be yes, it certainly appears cohabiting with tribbles is in fact beneficial to wombles.
Then there's the question of doing some kind of meta-analysis, where you combine the results from different studies to try to firm up any conclusions. In this fictional scenario it should be easy, there were four trials, three of them attempting to replicate the first as closely as possible. With any luck, the trial conditions would turn out to be close enough that the data from the different trials could just be combined together to just make a much larger sample size. If that's not feasible, there's all kinds of statistical tests (a lot of them Bayesian) comparing the results of the different trials against each other.
Sorry, Andre, I got a little side-tracked elsewhere …
A very interesting topic. At no stage did you mention effect-size!?
As you are aware, P<0.05 has become somewhat of a curse, especially in biomedical science. For one, it says absolutely nothing about clinical relevance.
TBH, I kinda figured you and some others likely to have significant statistics knowledge saw where I was likely trying to go with this and deliberately stayed out to let it run its course.
The only tweak on that would be if there were some underlying common cause in several of those observations – e.g. motivon, miasma, and nug incidence were all part of the womble's precosian system and might point to a assininus deficiency. Then it might be worth a closer look.
But the main priority would be to 1080 the heck out of southern England to stop the invasive species outbreak.
I did say "well-studied" and "independent".
You ever seen tribbles get given 1080? Hoo boy …
So difficult to kill. That's the trouble with those fluffy little buggers.
That's …
The Trouble with Tribbles
So many Trials and Tribble-ations.
Nope trouble with Lichen (John Wyndham)
“This is not the age of reason, this is the age of flummery, and the day of the devious approach. Reason’s gone into the backrooms where it works to devise means by which people can be induced to emote in the desired direction.”
exhibit one.
http://www.math.mcgill.ca/rags/seminar/poli.txt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreasonable_ineffectiveness_of_mathematics
I think this is the citation you're looking for:
In the meantime I've had some fun digging around for the correct answer myself.
Thanks for the thought provoking post.
Phew, I wouldn't want to be boring.
I get nervous about ideas like "the correct answer" when looking for statistical signals in noisy data. To me there's only stronger and weaker suggestions and probabilities and interpretations. All to be monitored on an ongoing basis and subject to revision on receipt of new data.
The US military has opened a twitter post to let sevicepeople express their positive service experience. Only most talk of depression, lost limbs and other serious health issues and los and lots of suicide. The overwhelming trend is heartbreaking loss and anger and violence…
View at Medium.com
We in New Zealand are shamefully slow in electrifying transport. We could and should be matching China's example, where many cities have a 100% electric urban bus fleet. Rubbish trucks, concrete trucks, delivery vans, basically anything with a stop-start urban work cycle is an absolute natural for electrification.
https://thinkprogress.org/electric-buses-outsell-diesel-china/
When it comes to smaller electric vehicles, China is yet again waaay ahead of the rest of the world. Last time I saw a breakdown of the global EV market, more than half the EVs sold worldwide were in China.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/china-is-winning-the-electric-vehicle-race/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/24/china-electric-vehicle-sales-jump-175-up-to-4-8-of-auto-market-in-january/
Those LTO cells I've been using have worked incredibly well. We've yet to get anywhere near their limits.
Interestingly their primary market is in fact the electric buses mentioned in your first link.
I'd guess it's that tolerance of very high charging rates that make them attractive to bus applications.
Which kinda makes me curious how really high power charging stations and their power connections work together – whether they just have a super grunty network connection and rely on the grid to absorb the massive rapid fluctuations in demand or whether the charging stations themselves incorporate batteries and/or supercapacitors to smooth their demand.
Tesla new battery is really just another new design for a solid-state lithium battery that several different places have worked on. The solid state lithium battery is coming one way or another, at the moment we're just trying to figure out who has the best design for the industry to go with, and which one will be the easiest to transition to from lithium ion. Electric powertrain designs are coming to trucks and buses. Question is will people stop buying electric cars.
I've been contemplating reforming a touring company… Electric vehicles, in NZ at least, are a bit naff. Unless I have 100k for a Tesla I can't get anything with decent range, not even to cover only the top half of the North Island. The recharge times are prohibitive for taking others on the road too, the fast charge stations…? It seems the cars here can't charge so well as the charging stations aren't very good? There was nothing to suggest I'd get < several hours to wait to recharge and extend range past 200 miles.
All in all it was a discouraging experience trying to build a green touring model. Trains etc are hopeless I have sound gear to cart around.
Back in the day the government bought rolling stock for trains that could only go half as fast as the engines – making trucks look faster. Is the same trick of light being used on chargers to make EV's unattractive, or are they shit?
"I want to talk to you about Julian Assange….Judicial process though, yah?"
Evan Davis smoothly transforms from nice-but-dim to ideological assassin at the 20:44 mark….
Chomsky is very reliable; this was well worth the time to listen to it. Thanks for this.
Fascinating White Island is very active at present.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/390580/swarm-of-almost-200-earthquakes-on-white-island
A bad penny always turns up.
[…]
Nolan was arrested along with someone who was then reported as a minor. Court documents now reveal it was his then 17-year old wife, Kiyomi, who spent a lot of time in Discord. I wonder what her Discord name was.
[…]
HOLY SHIT.
The defense names BEN SHAPIRO as a motivation for Kiyomi's radical right wing views.
I'm losing track of how many violent white supremacists @benshapiro has helped radicalize.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1132210962889678848.html
Joe90. Were you aware before posting that tweet and its content that Ben Shapiro is a practising Jew?
And?
– Ben Shapiro
There needs to be some acknowledgment that Jew + right wing does not equal rascist attacks on Jews.
It's classic woke victimhood that illustrates why it's so dangerous unopposed.
Referring to the left-wing voting habits of "Bad Jews" is a-ok though?
Thats just a stupid way to communicate. You and Joe90 are debating in bad faith, half truths and fallacious arguments to prove that Jew+RWNJ=Auschwitz.
Its not just stupid calling normal people racist against there own people its villainous. All you are doing is claiming victim status so you can control people and I won't play that bullshit game. Villains use subterfuge and lie to control and I'm not trying to be like that.
Who called Shapiro racist? You sound awfully defensive. Also how am I claiming to be a victim? I’m merely pointing out the type of things Shapiro says. It is the racists that say they’re inspired by him. You’re misrepresenting what’s being said with half-truths and imaginary “fallacious arguments”.
You’re not trying to express yourself clearly either.
Are you functionally illiterate?
You are not only playing the victim, youre shit at communicating, you're blaming me for your stupid arguments and again, making out like I'm deficient.
So if you can please provide quotes that Shapiro is rascist against Jews.
Who claimed Shapiro is racist against Jews?
I don't have to "make out" your deficiencies.
Joe90 has left you idiots holding a shit sandwich and you can't tast it.
You can't point out where anyone (other than you) has said this thread is about Shapiro being racist against Jews.
I am convinced that you are a professional liar.
And I'm convinced your invective is almost entirely projection
Now see if you can follow the bouncy ball.
Joe90 produced this quote "The defense names BEN SHAPIRO as a motivation for Kiyomi's radical right wing views.
I'm losing track of how many violent white supremacists @benshapiro has helped radicalize."
To which I ask if Joe90 was aware Shapiro is Jewish. It's idiotic to imply that Shapiro is in anyway way involved in rascist attacks against Jews. And Joe90 just shat all over you and took off.
Arkie. I'm finding it difficult to believe that Sam is a sincere person. He expresses himself (herself/itself) in a manner that "sounds" more like an algorithm that a person's genuine views. The modus operandi Sam uses is to make a claim, then lace further replies with insults, cryptically delivered, in order to mask the insincerity of his position and making it impossible to hold him to account for his claims. It feels more like an experiment in creating a "debating programme" than a discussion with a flesh and bone human, in my opinion.
I also wondered whether TS is sometimes being used as a ‘field trial’ for AI-bots. Lynn may have some insights on this.
Who said (or implied) he was involved? You’re continuing to make shit up.
The wife of the perpetrator of the racist vandalism said they were radicalised by Shapiro.
You understand what radicalisation is, don’t you Sammy?
Muh broz. Y'all need saving from your fathers. Let me be your father. I'll take care of you. Just kiss the ring finger.
Sam said: "You and Joe90 are debating in bad faith".
Yesterday, he claimed he debates with people with the objective of showing that their argument is "low IQ" and "dog-shit".
Ya gotta wonder at that.
Appeals to the audience doesn't influence the strength of your argument or position. It just goes to show how insecure and weak your ideological reasoning is. We are discussing whether or not it's cool to claim Ben Shapiro is rascist against Jews, got anything to add?
Who claimed Ben Shapiro is racist against Jews Sammy?
Again. Are you functionally illiterate?
I must be. Point it out to me where it's been claimed Shapiro is racist against Jews.
2nd quote of the tweet.
So are you functionally illiterate? Because nowhere in the 2nd quote does it say Shapiro is racist against Jews. Your claims and reality are at odds.
.
So what? All you have proven is your abilities and skills of quoting me. Thx I guess my son.
I'm noting your hypocrisy, Sam. If your claims about engaging in debate are inconsistent, your other arguments might well be also.
It's likely that your debating skills consists of avoiding the original point being made and slandering when you realise you're in the wrong.
It's likely that my observations about your hypocrisy and inconsistency are accurate and you are employing your trademark caustic strategy in an attempt to dis-hearten your perceived adversary.
I reserve the right to disrespect anyone who can not have a simple conversation. As I keep saying my position is that Jew+RWNJ does not equal Aushwitz. What’s your position Rob?
You may be debating the issue, " that Jew+RWNJ does not equal Aushwitz." but I am not. As I clearly expressed, I'm making comment on your incongruous claims around debating, a discussion that began on another thread, yesterday. This is Open Mike, where a range of topics can be addressed. You have declined to address my claims while at the same times lacing your responses with a variety of put-downs. Regarding your claimed " right to disrespect anyone who can not have a simple conversation.", I presume you are referring to me, and if that's the case, cannot agree that I am unable "to have a simple conversation", in fact, I'm confident that having simple conversations is something I regularly and successfully do. Your "conversations" as evidenced here on TS, are so convoluted, infolded and obscure and caustic that it seems to me you should disrespect yourself, based on your performance so far. Kindly meant and simple expressed of course.
Yeah, I don't just reserve the right to call you a whingy little puss bag, I'll talk smack to any one who try's to act a fool. You, mods, anyone.
Once I feel that my arguments are as strong as and people begin to take the bitch route around instead of taking on my arguments directly I'll just let fire. Sorry not sorry.
Hi all, may I briefly butt in and ask to not resort to pointless personal attacks and insults?
Maybe it’s time to agree to disagree and walk away without the spray while you still can?
appeal to authority is a logical falsay as well eh, incognito.
If you can read, you can take heed.
So where is your argument addressing my claim re your hypocrisy, as described in my first comment
"Sam said: "You and Joe90 are debating in bad faith".
Yesterday, he claimed he debates with people with the objective of showing that their argument is "low IQ" and "dog-shit"."?
“I’m noting your hypocrisy, Sam. If your claims about engaging in debate are inconsistent, your other arguments might well be also. “
TBH Iv got very little idea what you're on about talking about something I said a couple days ago.
Besides that if I do argue the flaws of IQ it would be that IQ tests are frequently used to test army recruits to see if they can gain a few extra meters than Vietnam vets.
On the other hand if I was to argue for IQ testing then I'd argue that testing is best used for high achieving Uni students rather than soilders.
Still dosnt improve my impression of rob.
Unable to understand my simple conversation, Sam?
Let's see, there was a quote about that just recently…here it is:
Sam said:
26 May 2019 at 2:56 pm
"I reserve the right to disrespect anyone who can not have a simple conversation."
again, so what. All you've done is prove that you can quote me.
And that you're still to respond to my claim that your claim is hypocritical. So, worthwhile persisting, despite your determined avoidance strategy. At this point, I've lost interest and have more useful things to do, so, see you in the soup, or, in the likely case that Incognito sends you to Coventry, see ya, Sam.
Yeah. Now get lost.
So is Alan Dershowitz. So is Binyamin Netanyahu.
What is your point, exactly?
My point is you, Joe and arkie have a problem with Ben Shapiro because he is a conservative and you are biased against him and seek to unjustly smear him as a rascist.
And my problem is you make me and the rest of the left look like fucken chumps.
-Ben Shapiro
I reckon you do you stand up job of looking like a fucken chump without any assistance.
Are you senile? My position is Shapiro isn't rascist towards Jews so can't be held responsible for attacks against Jews. What is your position?
How convenient for Shapiro that you have absolved him of inspiring racists.
It is my position that a self-identifying racist vandal says they were radicalised by Shapiro. That's less of a position, more a response to your defense of Shapiro based on his religious identity.
Its not convenient at all. In fact it's inconvenient that I am forced to defend Shapiro from a bunch of morons masquerading as lefties trying to smear Shapiro.
Where's the smear Sammy? No-one has made any claims about Shapiro's racism except you. The smear is in your head.
Does make me wonder who really is the "moron masquerading as a leftie"
Yeah. You are acting like a fool that dosnt know you are in the wrong and I blame Joe99 for being low cunning
Yeah. I think you're a big-brain Alpha and a pretty cool guy. You can definitely read and doesn't afraid of anything.
Shapiro is one of the filthier critics of liberal Jews. How can you say he is not racist against Jews? You are ignorant.
I couldn't prove that Shapiro is rascist towards Jews because I believe that Shapiro is a practitioner of the faith. It's also covered in freedom of religion legislation so unless your can prove Shapiro has committed an act of violence or supported an act of violence then you're just a (insert what ever hurts your feelings the most here)
Back in 2007-08 I watched an episode of Law and Order (the courtroom drama) that had a man who murdered a black girl defending himself by saying that the rants of a right wing shock jock whipped him into such a frenzy that he ended up killing her.
Looks like life is imitating art.
So as to be clear joe, because you seem to get yourself confused…
Del Bigtree expressed open support for the persecution of jewish communities in NY…
You called Bigtree, scum.
Now, you are performing the exact same cut n paste routine, this time against Ben Shapiro…
Simultaneously for and against those who express support for the jews…
Which is it ?
Bigtree wore a universal symbol of oppression, hate, and suffering, in an effort to portray himself and his halfwitted followers as victims. Fucking scum.
I don't think you understood what was and still is going on , around that specific issue…do you?
You should be able to explain what you reckon was, and still is going on there…and therefore you understand why you are absolutely wrong to call Bigtree, scum
…but you don’t understand…do you?
Which says you are using the jewish faith to peddle your own ignorance… and I’ll request that you either stop propagating such ignorant and warped views…or at least spend some time learning what is actually going on…before you USE the jewish communities once again…
Because that is what you appear to be doing…using the jewish community …
Are you jewish or direct descendant ?
I'll get you started….fill in the blanks…
Orthodox jewish communities in NY were and are being discriminated against through use of [ ] and/or [ ] for adhering to their right to religion….
Bigtree was illustrating his distain for those who are repeating the past by persecuting those same orthodox jewish communities…
Over to you for your version of the events…
Do take your relentlessly determined dishonesty and shove it.
https://www.adl.org/blog/anti-vaccine-protesters-misappropriate-holocaust-era-symbol-to-promote-their-cause
From someone who is part of those communities…
You need to desist from using such material…because you are ignorantly propagating and endorsing further persecution in doing so…
You are so very wrong, and you are extremely misinformed…
That you then used the adl as some sort of protective cover for your repeated attacks on the jewish communities is perverse…
But you wouldn't understand why it is perverse…because you do not know what is actually going on there…
And you need to stop.
You've got yourself some of that special sauce discernment and insight, haven't you?
Nothing special about it, joe…
Leaving the inbuilt and ingrained prejudice aside, gives best opportunity to obtain objectivity…
Then it is simply a question of investing the necessary time to explore all available angles of a subject…not superficially…. as well as seek out the intersections where there is cross over into related topical pathways…
Your desire unfolds into dimensionless acceptance.
Assange Is Indicted for Exposing War Crimes While Trump Considers Pardons for War Criminals
https://www.democracynow.org/2019/5/24/assange_is_indicted_for_exposing_war
Democratic Candidates Speak Out Against Trump’s Moves in the Middle East
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/05/democratic-candidates-trump-iran-saudi-arabia/
Victor Meldrew knew how to handle Tory voters
"There was pain on both sides." Noelle McCarthy displays her ignorance of New Zealand history
RNZ National, Saturday 25 May 2019
Anybody who cares about the terrible state of our public broadcasting service will be able to point to one or more really sickening or substandard performances by the people entrusted—and paid good money—to ask intelligent questions on our behalf. I have over more than a decade recorded dozens of disastrous performances, but here are three of the worst interviews that have polluted our airwaves in this century: an under-prepared Kim Hill foolishly reading out Pentagon talking points to, of all people, John Pilger in 2003 [1]; Noelle McCarthy in 2013 allowing a right wing ideologue to excuse the use of torture by U.S. troops [2]; a baffled Jesse Mulligan opining learnedly in 2016 that Russia is "L-L-L-L-LOOKIN' for trouble" [3].
Yesterday morning, we were treated to—actually, inflicted with—not just one, but two really terrible interviews. Both of them were carried out by one Noelle McCarthy.
After the 9 o'clock news, McCarthy's guest was historian Vincent O'Malley. This was well worth listening to when he was speaking; unfortunately, however, McCarthy felt compelled to interpose her own complacent, prejudiced and slanted views. Her comments, as usual, were callow, ill thought out and deeply reactionary, the sort of thing you'd expect from some drooling old Pakeha farmer ranting in the lounge bar in a south Taranaki pub.
After the 11 o'clock news, she moved from complacent and ignorant to plain nasty. The topic, ominously for anyone who has heard her laughing about the plight of the Palestinians, was Gaza.
End of Part 1 (of 2)
[1] https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/face-to-face-with-kim-hill-john-pilger-2003
[2] https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/noelle-mccarthys-patsy-interview-with.html
[3] https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/more-evidence-of-jesse-mulligans.html
The good Noelle
She can be really intelligent, and compassionate, as she shows in this interview with a reprobate.
https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/noelle-mccarthy-swallowed-vomit-for-15.html
Double comment? Takes up space so I might delete one.
Sorry about that, Incognito. I've already deleted the second one, and replaced it with something to show that I do appreciate Ms McCarthy when she is on form.
All good 😉
I wonder how many people bother to check the accuracy of the numbers they use in a debate before making claims that depend on the accuracy of their quotes?
There was a brief letter in the "To the point" section in yesterday's Dom/Post. I can't locate it on-line but it was on page C6 for anyone who wants to see it. It was from someone named Carole who was complaining that teachers were not happy with their pay claim and then she made a claim that is simply in the realm of fantasy. The sentence read "What is even surer is that with the Prime Minister's salary more than tripling in the past few years, the Government will never be disappointed". I take this to be a claim that the Government has paid much larger pay increases to itself than they have offered the teachers.
It seemed rather unlikely to me so I looked at the numbers. Exactly what she means by a "few" is not stated but I will allow it to be 9 years. It can't really be more than that can it?
On today's date in 2010 the PM was paid $393,000. Today the PM is paid $471,049.
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2009/0340/latest/DLM2508203.html#DLM2508203
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/04/where-jacinda-ardern-ranks-among-highest-paid-world-leaders.html
And Carole seems to think that this increase, which is in fact 19.86% over what I would regard is somewhat more than a "few" years, is a 300% rise? How can she possibly come to that conclusion? It might be a very large pay packet but it hardly means that MPs cash in while Teachers miss out. does it?
Housing problems in an unfair and shrinking world.
Pakistani slums – https://borgenproject.org/tag/slums/page/2/
Milkshake truthiness, false flags, and dodgy AF go fund me appeals for milkshake victims. More fuckwittery to come, I'm sure.
https://www.truthorfiction.com/was-a-milkshake-thrown-at-an-elderly-brexit-party-volunteer/
I can see that Sam is being allowed to run free. If the dog is not going to be put on a leash, and be sent to puppy school and so absent for a while, then I Postman Pat will not be delivering any more missives. I apparently am not appreciated so will attend to important personal requirements.
bugger.
"will attend to important personal requirements."
It is the little room down at the end of the corridor. And remember, when you finish, Put the Bloody Toilet Seat Down".
Grey, this is terrible news. We want you and need you here.
For you. Greywarshark
Of course they're going to war. The armageddon-obsessed theocrats are determined to fulfill their end times fantasy.
West Point, N.Y. — Vice President Mike Pence told the most diverse graduating class in the history of the U.S. Military Academy on Saturday that the world is "a dangerous place" and they should expect to see combat. "Some of you will join the fight against radical Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq," he said.
Pence congratulated the West Point graduates on behalf of President Trump, and told them, "As you accept the mantle of leadership I promise you, your commander in chief will always have your back. Mr. Trump is the best friend the men and women of our armed forces will ever have."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mike-pence-west-point-graduation-vice-president-says-they-should-expect-to-see-combat-today-2019-05-25/
The week prior the French assembled for the two soldiers killed in Burksina Faso.
Very moving ceremony with the historical music Marche des soldats de Robert Bruce (which was played by Joan of Arcs scottish soldiers on entering Orleans)
Rape promoting PUA boards the tax exempt flock fleecing Yeshua train.
However, even that branch of the PUA tree is wilting away. Many "self-help" style PUA forums like Nextasf and RSDnation are shutting down or have already shut down. In March, Chateau Heartiste, a batshit crazy PUA turned White Nationalist/Alt-Right blog was shut down by WordPress. This week, rape advocate Roosh V (whom you may recall once called yours truly a "Wonkette typist/clown face, would not bang") announced that he was renouncing his PUA ways and devoting himself to Jesus. He explained to the forum he manages that he would no longer be allowing anyone to discuss premarital "fornication."
https://www.wonkette.com/the-week-in-garbage-men-no-country-for-old-pick-up-artists
Forty years ago.
Thanks for that Joe.
Stands the test of time and still scares the shit out of me today. All time great.
If this scheme is half of what it is cracked up to be then well done this government.
This might even count as Good News.
Bugger me.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/390605/150m-package-to-help-youth-transition-from-state-care
Young people transitioning from state care to independence will no longer be cut off from Government support when they turn 18.
"Teenagers leaving care should have the right to expect what any young person would want – knowing there is someone to turn to if they need help; a warm bed to sleep in; some help and encouragement when it is needed.
"This service will provide that, both by allowing young people to stay longer with their caregivers and providing specialised transitions support workers whose job is to help this group."
Oranga Tamariki has been tasked with building the service, which will employ 175 new specialist staff employed and make 60 supported accommodation facilities available by year four.
Trawling my way down here to the bottom of your comment section for 26 I find you footnoters/ idea investigators but nowt as sharp as an arrow point. I recognise youse but when I call I'm not in the mood for milling about. More my fault.