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Open mike 26/11/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 26th, 2021 - 59 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

59 comments on “Open mike 26/11/2021 ”

  1. observer 1

    This is absolutely magnificent: Toby Manhire puts together an album of National's Greatest Hits. There have been so many it's hard to keep up, so here's a reminder …

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/26-11-2021/the-five-most-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-days-in-recent-national-party-history

  2. vto 2

    Curious, very curious….

    Bridges made a comment about 'folk wisdom on conceiving girls or boys', depending on how the act of copulation is undertaken, as I understand. This was taken offence at. Can I ask why? I have read the msm to try and understand why but have come up short. I am genuinely curious how the offence arose – it seems everyone is offended today and the curiousity stems from this wider point. I suspect some simple facts are simply missing…

    On a related point I read somewhere in an opinion about males in the National Party (good grief, what a horrid thought, having to spend time with them, bleeaaargh…) that jokes about women should all stop..

    .. which led to one of the obvious follow-on questions – that jokes about all people should stop… which is … well … isn't that nonsensical given the human reality of laughing at each other?? No more comedy? Do we laugh at flora and fauna instead? What can we laugh at?

    Note, I am not coming down on any particular side of these issues – I am simply genuinely curious to understand what others are thinking in this very sober arena

    • observer 2.1

      No more comedy? Well, every day I watch shows and clips on YouTube that make me laugh, a tonic in these troubled times. Anything from Taskmaster to Mock The Week to Would I Lie To You to Cats Does Countdown and dozens more. Of course everyone has different tastes, so I'm not suggesting everyone else should laugh at the same things. But for me, there's not enough time in the day to watch it all.

      Simon Bridges being an overgrown adolescent has nothing to do with comedy, really. (And Collins using it as an obvious pretext had nothing to with it either).

    • Ross 2.2

      Stuff published an article several years ago about trying to “select” the sex of a baby. It was informative.

      https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/pregnancy/conception/trying-to-conceive/10939837/The-myths-and-truths-of-gender-swaying

    • gsays 2.3

      Bridges has seemed to show a profound lack of self awareness. Although the "old wives tale' has been replaced with 'folk wisdom'.

      In a related vein, I read this article about a long serving female teacher resigning from PNBHS.

      "When she started there were only 10 women on staff out of 68 and she said there were some disparaging views towards women, but the atmosphere has changed.

      “You learnt how to deal with it … you just need to say pull your head in and there’s no problem.”

      Now there are 30 female staff out of 113 and she tells the boys “manners maketh the man”."
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/300463144/longserving-boys-high-languages-teacher-retiring

      Also, once I thought I would chip a buddy who was good at golf, with a line I had heard from Billy Connolly. Something along the lines of golfers being wankers.

      His reply has stayed with me. He replied with the question; "Asking that, how did you want me to feel?"

      I guess there are no hard and fast rules. Context is everything and if it can't pass the Nana test (would you say that to your Nana?) don't say it.

    • RedLogix 2.4

      Being genuinely funny has little to do with the whether or not the race, sex, religion or politics is the theme – some of the greatest comedians of all time relied on these all the time.

      Humans may have evolved humour and laughter for a number of reasons I can imagine. It is also the adult manifestation of the 'playfulness' we find in children – a critical stage of development where they discover the boundaries between reality and fantasy, and that of successful risk taking and danger. Rough and tumble play teaches them how to invoke a reaction from others without provoking them to anger or resentment. In children its a critical development phase – and if they miss it for some reason they remain socially on the back foot the rest of their lives.

      As we become teenagers our adult sense of humour starts to manifest. But doing it well is not easy, and those who are good at it are signaling high intelligence and social aptitude. Nor is it surprise to anyone that high on the female sexual selection shopping list is always 'good sense of humour'.

      The reason for this is that life is never easy, there always will be challenges, failures and suffering – but people who can respond to these with humour, and succeed in lifting the mood of those around them, keeping the group morale afloat in the face of loss and disaster, will always be more likely to survive biologically and thrive socially.

      Our unique human capacity to successfully operate in large social groups – beyond that of our immediate genetic relatives – while retaining individual agency, is fundamental to our ability to build large complex adaptive societies. That humans are also virtually unique in our enormous capacity for laughter is no accidental correlation. (Yes I realise cats laugh at us all the time devil)

      All maladaptive social systems, political ideologies and their tyrannies, insist on crushing the fun out of life as a matter of instinctive priority. There is an implicit understanding that allowing people to poke fun at their obvious moral nakedness – is their Achilles Heel.

    • McFlock 2.5

      Seems he was very specific in the techniques to be applied.

      Not exactly workplace conversation – you have to pick your audience.

      There's also the separation factor – some jokes work better if they are about third parties but are a bit icky if told from the first person. And vice versa.

      So worthy of complaint, but I'd be interested to see what processes JC went through before throwing Bridges to the back bench and publicly disgracing him.

    • higherstandard 2.6

      I waiting on some new comedic genius in the mould of Douglas Adams (Hitchikers guides) or the beloved Terry Pratchet to take the proverbial our of the modern world and cause outrage VTO.

      Just imagine the opening lines.

      "Transmissions from Planet WokeLBGTXYZ are fading. Let’s see what Dr Carl Sourgum can bring up on his Encyclopedia Galatica.

      ‘So, there it is; whoman civilisation has annihilated itself in a paroxysm of hysteria, self-flagellation, anti-scientific gender politics and simply no longer breeding. because they were taught sex no longer exists, if it does it’s rape and there’s no point raising children if the earth warms up by 1 degree. No nuclear power, just broken windmills turning over to dribble a few kilowatts here and there to an infrastructure in tatters. I’m glad I died in 1996.’

  3. dv 3

    Some context for the issue!!

    That colleague was Dean, who told the Otago Daily Times she mentioned the incident to Collins during a conversation which followed meetings she had attended as assistant Speaker regarding recommendations from the Francis review of Parliament's workplace culture.

    "I approached Judith several weeks ago about my concerns and the conversation was in the context of the work I have been doing with the Francis review, and I found myself disclosing my experience," Dean said.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/jacqui-dean-says-she-was-surprised-judith-collins-raised-the-simon-bridges-incident/YSSOPO5TYAKIWKZSTKOLBERQPQ/

  4. pat 4

    And this may be the closest to the truth assessment yet

    “Events, dear boy, events.” Something you didn’t expect, and can’t fix, happens, and it all just gets too much. All the plotting and scheming. All the arm-twisting and political assassinating. Suddenly, the whole shitty business no longer seems worth the effort, and the all people around you start looking too hopelessly fucked-up to bother with.

    And. You. Snap."

    http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2021/11/judiths-last-stand.html

  5. ianmac 5

    One answer for Collins is that she is unwell. Her ability to think clearly looks tired and shambolic. Maybe she needs a long long rest.

    • mac1 5.1

      I believe I saw some of that on Tuesday when she was questioning the PM at Question Time- testy, tired, getting her serves returned with ease, slow at the net and once fouled out for serving over the line.

  6. Patricia Bremner 6

    True to form, Judith kept that "Pearl" of knowledge about Bridges behaviour as a lever. She did not "leak' it to journalists as she had made that an issue for her Leadership. "No Leaks" She liked having ammunition at the ready, especially gossip and bad behaviour, and this was a gem.

    Interesting that MP Dean is seen as a "whining woman", conniving more like it, when she discussed that incident with Judith as an example of the behaviour a committee was tasked with reviewing outside the committee room. If you can not trust a Leader to keep a confidence, who can you trust? Or was it "here is an item about Bridges" A conundrum of their own creation?

    I am more inclined to think Jacquie Dean did not think it through, was used by Judith Collins as a weapon later to try to damage Bridges without any consideration, as otherwise why wait “several weeks”?

    Remember her motto "Give back double" with a silent "Take no prisoners".

    Both women have behaved badly, but let us not forget how it began, with loose talk, by someone who wanted to be PM, who does not really seem to respect women or have a sense of propriety.

    • Pete 6.1

      Dean did not think it through? If the environment is such that a mere verbal detail could be used as a nuclear weapon, nothing can be said and written by anyone without doubt and risk.

      Let investigations begin of which MPs did what behind the shelter shed when they were at school, what they did on a sports trip when they were university students, the jokes they told at a party in 1999.

    • SPC 6.2

      Collins knew she was done and wanted to undermine any chance of Bridges returning to leadership (speaks to National Party needing to win back woman voters from Labour).

      Her support for Luxon is to seek protective patronage of her continuance as an MP (a spokesperson role improves her chances of staying as an electorate spokesperson MP and or having a placement on the list).

  7. Pete 7

    "Five people in court following murder of Christchurch teen

    … All five facing charges relating to the murder will appear in the High Court for a case review hearing on February 18.

    The agreed date for the start of the defendants’ trial is May 8, 2023."

    May 2023!

    • Gezza 9.1

      *The man was not armed with a firearm, and police arrested him “without incident” on Weedons Ross Rd shortly before midday, the spokeswoman said.

      He was hurt in the incident, and was taken to Christchurch Hospital and treated for moderate injuries.*

      I imagine the hurt was likely a dog bite? So … if he was hurt … how exactly is that “without incident”? 🤔

      The Police must have a different concept of “incident” than I do. 😳

  8. Rosemary McDonald 10

    Sunlive publishes an article detailing a local woman's battle with a severe adverse reaction the the Pfizer product.

    https://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/281866-rozannes-fight-after-vaccine-anguish.html

    Despite being prepared to have the second shot and going with husband Paul, who received his second vaccination on October 9, the clinic refused to administer it due to her on-going reaction to the first vaccine.

    The following weeks were filled with suffering relapses, brain fog, extreme head pain, fatigue and an uncontrollable severe body twitch.

    Unable to work, and initially refused an ACC claim, Rozanne found herself in what she says was “a very scary place having just been given a life-altering diagnosis”.

    She didn’t know if she would recover or get worse and reached out to others who like her were suffering severe symptoms.

    Rozanne found herself having to make it clear to people that she is not an anti-vaxer but a realist, recognising that a vaccine is essential to dealing with the Covid-19 virus.

    This is the first MSM article I have read about a person's adverse reaction to the Covid vaccine. May this be the first of many. Way past time that these severe side effects were hauled into the light.

  9. Stephen D 12

    A question for the economists.

    With rising inflation, and fair pay awards on their way, how are we going to avoid the ole wage price spiral?

    • Tricledrown 12.1

      Supply problems and fuel costs are areas that are not going to be fixed quickly.

      The only option reduced liquidity interest rate hikes.

      International shipping is going to be much more expensive for many years.

      The economies of the world will suffer.

    • RedLogix 12.2

      And with the hated Boomers all busy retiring across much of the world, skilled labour supply will shrink as well.

      It's my sense we're in for a LOT more disruption than most people are imagining.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 12.2.1

        Aye, that's my sense as well – a WHOLE "lot more disruption" coming society's way. Never mind – there's still time to score a few more deals in the BLACK Friday sales.

        Have you come across the term Affluenza? It's reached pandemic proportions among the golden billion – maybe the aforementioned disruption will offer a cure of sorts.

        Clive Hamilton and Richard Denniss’s book, Affluenza: When Too Much is Never Enough, poses the question: “If the economy has been doing so well, why are we not becoming happier?” They argue that affluenza causes overconsumption, “luxury fever“, consumer debt, overwork, waste, and harm to the environment. These pressures lead to “psychological disorders, alienation and distress“,  causing people to “self-medicate with mood-altering drugs and excessive alcohol consumption“. 

        They note that a number of Australians have reacted by “downshifting” — they decided to “reduce their incomes and place family, friends and contentment above money in determining their life goals“. Their critique leads them to identify the need for an “alternative political philosophy“, and the book concludes with a “political manifesto for wellbeing“.

        Not for everyone, of course – at least not voluntarily.

        • RedLogix 12.2.1.1

          No. The people that will be hurt the most will be the poor in the world who will have their hope of better life taken from them.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 12.2.1.1.1

            While it's possible that societal disruption will deprive “the poor” of "their hope of a better life", my sense is that the effects of disruption will not be confined to the poor, and that within two or three decades almost everyone is "in for a LOT more disruption than most people are imagining."

            What practical steps might be taken this decade to best prepare societies for the inevitable “LOT more disruption” that you alluded to @12.2?

            https://grantcraft.org/content/blog/learning-from-disruption-two-case-examples-of-resilience/

            • RedLogix 12.2.1.1.1.1

              This last comment of yours speaks to your usual agenda – it's painfully obvious that you're more consumed with resentment at those who are better off than you, than a useful concern to improve the life of those less fortunate than you.

              • Drowsy M. Kram

                it's painfully obvious that you're more consumed with resentment at those who are better off than you

                It's painfully obvious that you would trot out that stale jibe. Fwiw I'm content with my lot and (hand on heart) hold no resentment towards those who have convinced themselves they’re "better off" than me – seems so shallow smiley

                Back to your perceptive comment @12.2

                It's my sense we're in for a LOT more disruption than most people are imagining.

                That's my sense too (spaceship Earth has limits) – but what to do about it?

                1.5-Degree Lifestyles: Towards A Fair Consumption Space for All [PDF; 2021]
                This report introduces the concept of a fair consumption space — an ecologically healthy perimeter that supports within it an equitable distribution of resources and opportunities for individuals and societies to fulfil their needs and achieve wellbeing. Within this space, there are a range of regenerative options (which this report details), but there are also clear demarcating limits to over- and under-consumption: with a cap in emissions, overconsumption by one person affects the prospects of another, and encroaches into another’s consumption space, requiring collectively working toward a more equitable distribution of limited carbon budgets.

        • Mark Craig 12.2.1.2

          That is where I am now ,equipping a bus well and hitting the road early next year.As I reach my late 60s I want to set off and a wake up to a new beach panorama often.No more rates ,insurance ,maintenence upkeep etc etc ,just a reliable Isuzu and an open road,devil take the hindmost.If you see my beauty ,Starship Enterprise ,and Captain Max Viagra,co captain Hot Lips Houlihan ,wave us down,have a chat there will always be a cold stubby and glass of chardy in the fridge.

    • Blazer 12.3

      Well we have coped with house prices/rents exploding and no one gives a shit..so ..who cares!

    • Gezza 13.1

      “Defence lawyer Mike Antunovic​ said Soper was remorseful and ashamed of kicking the victim to the head. Soper had never had the opportunity of telling them how he feels or saying he is sorry, he said. “He extends his apologies through me.””

      G: Smells like BS.

      “Judge Davidson sentenced Soper, who is the son of Newstalk ZB political journalist Barry Soper, to seven months’ home detention, ordered him to stay away from alcohol, and to pay $4000 emotional harm reparation.

      He said reparation could never be seen to adequately compensate the victims for what happened.

      The judge said the attack was very much spur of the moment, impulsive and a significant overreaction on his part.”

      G: Does seem rather light a fine; dunno what other sentence you would think more appropriate, B? Care to enlighten us?

      “Davidson said Soper suffered from anxiety, which left him prone to erupting spontaneously in certain circumstances.”

      G: More BS. I’ve suffered from anxiety all my fracking life. The last thing anxiety makes you want to do is beat someone up. You’re too fearful of the likely adverse consequences. That claim’s a total crock of shit.

      In a statement, Barry Soper said the family was “deeply upset and disappointed”. “We support Hugh as he takes responsibility for his actions and sets about rebuilding his life. “The family is devastated for the victims and we wholeheartedly apologise for the effect this has had on their lives.”

      G: It’s not the offender’s family that should be issuing a grovelling apology, Baz. It’s your PoS son, mate. 😠

      • Blazer 13.1.1

        Imo a jail term of at least 12 months minimum would be appropriate.

        Be interesting to see a comparative re the sentencing.

        • Gezza 13.1.1.1

          Especially in comparison to a first offence for, say, one of our browner-skinned brothers? Yes. Might be interesting. Altho I seem to recall some rather light sentences for violent first offences for some of those offenders have attracted criticism on blogs in the past too.

          One wonders if having well-known celebrity journo parents may have played a part.

          I’m more puzzled with why the young prick hasn’t had the either the gonads or sufficient remorse to have apologised to them directly. He’s certainly had a cery long time to write them a decent aoology before he came up for sentencing

    • RedLogix 13.3

      I'm not very impressed either. In my book once you kick or stomp on someone's head when they're on the ground – you are trying to kill them. In our grandparents generation, kicking a man when he was on the ground was considered the lowest most cowardly act.

      If they live it was only a matter of good luck or good emergency medical treatment. And even then there is a high chance of permanent brain injury that will stay with the victim all their life. (Another stat that I read years ago, was that around 90% of male prison inmates in NZ have a brain injury of some kind.)

      Still regardless of the outcome I maintain your intent was to kill or seriously maim- and the law around assault should be changed to reflect this.

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  • Further sanctions on the political and economic elites of Russia and Belarus
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  • Another step towards improved supermarket competition
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  • Black Ferns to be celebrated at Parliament
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  • Autism Guideline released by Ministry
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  • Speech to Aotearoa Refugee Hui
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  • Global climate talks underline need for domestic action
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  • Defence Minister visits Ukraine and Poland
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  • Stuart Nash to attend OECD meetings
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  • Defence Minister meets with UK counterpart and visits NZDF personnel
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