Open mike 26/05/2015

69 comments on “Open mike 26/05/2015 ”

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1. Charles 1

   26 May 2015 at 6:33 am

   The earlier episodes of The Simpsons often had racist and prejudiced content, but in this episode they sum up, in one and a half minutes, how politics works in modern democracies:

   (Disregarding M. Cullen’s advice, I have omitted “stating the obvious”. It’s called satire.)

   The episode opens with a stray, inoffensive, and gentle brown bear “…wandering down from the hills, in search of food, or maybe employment…”. The townspeople hysterically petition Mayor Quimby to ban all bears (won’t someone think of the children!) and trapped in his office, he asks his aides,

   “Are these morons getting dumber or louder?”
   “They’re getting dumber, Sir.”

   In other news, over on TDB, a protestor from AAAP asks middle NZ, “Why you no like agro protest? Poor is ANGRY.”

   At the risk of stating the obvious: Explaining is losing. If you’re angry, be angry, and don’t apologise or seek approval from the people you oppose after the fact. You do oppose them, right?
   • Rosie 1.1

     26 May 2015 at 9:42 am

     Exactly Charles. Furthermore, anger is a a motivator for us to instigate change. It’s needs to be left to burn and should never be tamed. Our very expression of anger over social, political and environmental issues tells the world that something is very wrong.

     There’s some things you just can’t be polite about.

     “Anger is an energy”.

     Here’s John Lydon demonstrating that sentiment with “Rise” by PIL
   • Draco T Bastard 1.2

     26 May 2015 at 11:21 am
2. stever 2

   26 May 2015 at 6:58 am

   It’s happening there…and here, of course.

   “Do we care more about the past than the future?”

   http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/25/children-austerity-david-cameron-cuts-young-people
3. vto 3

   26 May 2015 at 7:04 am

   Do you think the US has finally just about got the middle east to the point it wants? i.e. total and complete chaos….

   Who believes anything the US says about Iraq, Syria, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc? Anyone? Garden gnomes?
4. Charles 4

   26 May 2015 at 7:29 am

   It’s NZ music month, or it will be, next month, brought into popularity during the Clark government. If you are a musician then it’ll be NZ music month every day of your life.

   Organised politics is always “an offense to the sovereignty of the individual” and good art usually moves away from organisation, so here’s two songs that tap into that anarchistic sentiment, without losing themselves in self-indulgence.

   This is Julia Dean’s, Modern Fables. It’s worth the time to listen to the work of her career, since she covers a lot of ground in many styles. We can continue making progress… if we all pretend…
   

   And this is Bailter Space with, Splat, asking us to remember that whatever they tell you, it’s always from their point of view, and about what works best for them…
   

   (Note to The Standard admin: these youtube links can stay as links if you like, since some people have difficulty with video on their home systems.)
5. adam 5

   26 May 2015 at 8:32 am

   Gotta love Liberalism.

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/68739974/slavery-on-nz-seas-rape-bonded-labour-and-abuse-widespread-on-fishing-boats
6. adam 6

   26 May 2015 at 8:35 am

   How odd is this – Now our PM can do policy speculation and it’s news. How far have the media fallen…

   https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/28221038/key-convinced-labour-would-reduce-supannuation/
7. Ron 7

   26 May 2015 at 8:58 am

   Listening to Andrew Little this morning on the fairness of receiving pension whilst still working. (Notice now that it has the word wealthy inserted) If you run off at the mouth and say something silly then either stick with it or apologise and move on. Little did not want to do either so he just sounded stupid.
   Can we please not get sucked in on Superannuation being unaffordable. It is not. Government have choices where they spend and ‘Super’ is just one area.
   We could always stop buying military weapons that are useless which would go a long way towards covering Pension bill
   • Draco T Bastard 7.1

     26 May 2015 at 11:31 am

     We could always stop buying military weapons that are useless which would go a long way towards covering Pension bill

     1. Probably not
     2. Despite us not wanting to attack anyone else there are people out there who will attack us if we don’t have the means to defend ourselves
     3. It’s not about money but about resources and we have the resources to do both

     Number three is actually really important as it highlights the delusion that our economic system has become and how we focus on the money rather than looking to the resources.
     • Ron 7.1.1

       27 May 2015 at 8:46 am

       Re 1 my point was that Defence seems to waste money on purchasing items not fit for purpose eg LAV’s and the Charles Upham which was completely useless and was sold. Now we have expensive helicopters that already is some argument about the model we are buying. I think that replacing our armed forces with a modern Coastguard capable of reaching from Antarctica to anywhere north of NZ that requires our presence while at the same time being equipped to enable SAR work when required, protecting our fishing area helping countries in our area when disaster occurs. A modern Coastguard would seem to offer better use of resources.
       • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.1

         27 May 2015 at 9:26 am

         The Charles Upham was bought on the cheap resulting in a waste of time and effort. Certainly another case of National trying to do something cheaply and failing.

         The LAVs were bought for use in the peacekeeping role that the government at the time wanted to focus upon.

         The helicopters fit into SAR, peacekeeping and defense roles. There has been some concern about the model and standards.

         IMO, military equipment should be researched, designed and built here in NZ by a government department (I think profit should not be allowed on weapons production) so as to a) remove the logistic weakness that comes with buying equipment offshore and b) help develop the economy.

         As for which forces we keep I think that we’re going to have to keep the three that we have. They cover the roles needed no matter what we use the defense forces for.
8. AsleepWhileWalking 8

   26 May 2015 at 9:10 am

   http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-25/israel-refuses-pay-old-oil-debt-iran

   Israel defies Swiss court order to pay debt of 1.1 Billion (USD) owed to Iran.
9. Corokia 9

   26 May 2015 at 9:55 am

   Yet more evidence this morning that “the market” is not an appropriate mechanism for dealing with the problems we are faced with (as if we didn’t know) . When interviewed on Morning report today the chief executive of Contact Denis Barnes, said he thinks there is great long term opportunity in renewables “ but the most value we can add is by finding resource and developing that resource and that takes many, many years, you know something like 5 to 7 years from when you first come across an opportunity to where you might be earning money from it”

   Since when is 5-7 years “many, many”??!! Selling essential infrastructure to people with such ridiclously short term thinking is extreme negligence.

   http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/business/bus-ckpt-20150525-1734-todays_market_update-048.mp3
10. Rosie 10

    26 May 2015 at 9:58 am

    The plight of the Postie and of the postal service may have slipped under the radar for many but the problems remain.

    NZ Post have been closing down Post Shops all over the country in recent years and cutting back services such as next day across town delivery, leaving the gap open for private competition such as DX mail to pick up the slack.
    Many elderly and those without the internet prefer or need to pay their bills at the P.O and they get pissed off when NZ Post goes and closes their local P.O down:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/kapiti/67599873/nz-post-fails-to-find-operator-for-raumati-post-shop.html

    Here’s a good article quoting John Maynard, Southern Secretary for the Postal Workers Union Aotearoa. Among other things he discusses privatisation by stealth and the social duty NZ Post have to provide a service to NZer’s.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/better-business/68693716/postal-union-boss-unhappy-about-nz-post-policies-in-porirua
    • Draco T Bastard 10.1

      26 May 2015 at 11:42 am

      NZ Post, like all postal services around the world, became a government service because the private sector couldn’t do it and make a profit. It’s also one of those services that is a natural monopoly as competition in carriers just increases the costs without increasing the service. Basically, posting anything across town or even across the country shouldn’t cost anything directly as it should be a government service paid for through taxes with shops in all centres.

      That said, as the amount of mail declines then delivery schedules need to reduce. There’s really no point in being inefficient about it. And, yes, eventually, there’ll b e no more mail. Hell, about the only thing that turns up in my mail box these days is junk mail which should be banned as the waste that it is.
      • Rosie 10.1.1

        26 May 2015 at 12:27 pm

        Interesting point in paragraph one.

        Re last paragraph. The PWUA acknowledges mail volumes are declining, and from what I’ve heard, the posties are realistic about the change, in that respect.
        It’s when NZ Post deliberately drop next day delivery across town and let a private company fill the vacuum that you can begin to sniff a rat. Why would they drop a still well used service and hand business over to another competing company?

        For example several DHB’s have switched from NZ Post to DX Mail as they send all their patient appointments and correspondence via post.

        We still need the post for sending parcels and sending greeting cards. Many may get their bills sent via email, like we do, but it’s still nice to send some one a birthday card or a bereavement card, (not a corny one) if they’ve lost someone.

        It’s especially nice as people expect to receive less cards, so it’s a pleasant surprise when one turns up.
        • te reo putake 10.1.1.1

          26 May 2015 at 12:30 pm

          The problem with the likes of DX mail is that they don’t do the deliveries. That’s still a NZ Post postie putting the item into your mailbox. NZ Post are required to support their own opposition. It’s pretty weird.
          • Rosie 10.1.1.1.1

            26 May 2015 at 1:24 pm

            DX are doing deliveries – on their scooters. We get our NZ Post Postie come by in the morning and the DX postie on his scooter late arvo. From what I’ve heard, it’s at the mail sorting end where NZ Post are having to do DX’s work, and they are obliged to, they can’t refuse to handle their mail. Have you heard of cases where NZ Post posties are carrying DX mail as well as their own?

            I’d need to get specifics from my buddy at NZ Post before I go into it any further.

            Agree it is weird, NZ Post supporting their opposition. What I also find weird is they intentionally give up their business to their opposition. Kind of shooting yourself in the foot – thats surely “the privatisation by stealth” angle.
            • te reo putake 10.1.1.1.1.1

              26 May 2015 at 1:44 pm

              Yes, you are correct about the scooters, Rosie. DX have delivery in specific, high density areas, but its NZ Post who do the deliveries for DX and the others everywhere else. For Dx et al, it’s kind of like airlines cherry picking their routes and leaving Air New Zealand to fly the unprofitable regional runs. A sort of reverse subsidy.
              • Rosie …

                26 May 2015 at 1:51 pm

                Got ya.
                • Invisible Axe …

                  26 May 2015 at 6:33 pm

                  Yes NZ Post posties are delivering DX Mail, to areas where DX Mail cannot make a profit. Only NZ Post offers redirections, or hold mail, or RTS (Return to sender), or PO Boxes. DX Mail do not do those services (though they may well be thinking of doing it). DX Mail offer 5 day delivery, whereas in a month NZ Post will be delivering to your house every 3 days (Still 6 days for PO Boxes, Rural Delivery & places like Balclutha).

                  NZ Post are trialling some mixed services with Courier Post delivering mail side by side with NZ Post posties, so they have wage earners sitting alongside contractors, the end game is to contract out posty work (My assumption).

                  The Unions (EPMU & PWUA) have been next to useless on this, or to be fair they have been outfoxed (the introduction of PPM (Postie Pay Model – paid for volume of mail rather than hours) is killing posties, especially the older guys, its a crap system (DX Mail still get paid by hours worked).
                  • Rosie …

                    26 May 2015 at 8:03 pm

                    Thanks Invisible Axe. Wasn’t aware of the PPM. Re this bit:

                    “NZ Post are trialling some mixed services with Courier Post delivering mail side by side with NZ Post posties, so they have wage earners sitting alongside contractors, the end game is to contract out posty work (My assumption).”

                    I’d heard about this too. I’d also make the assumption that NZ Post are wanting to move towards contractors and away from permanent employees. That would suck.
                    • Colonial Rawshark …

                      26 May 2015 at 8:06 pm

                      It seems likely that the Board would be approving of executive management’s strategy here, given how big of a change it is.
11. esoteric pineapples 11

    26 May 2015 at 10:03 am

    Apparently a neutron bomb has been dropped on Yemen with Saudi and Israeli connections. I imagine nothing has been verified for sure but one only has to look at the video to see that whatever was dropped was pretty mean and ugly and very much looks like a mini nuclear bomb.

    http://robinwestenra.blogspot.co.nz/2015/05/a-neutron-bomb-dropped-on-yemen-by-iaf.html?spref=fb
    • te reo putake 11.1

      26 May 2015 at 10:42 am

      Yeah, it’s bollocks though, isn’t it? A neutron bomb dropped on Yemen by Israel on behalf of Saudi Arabia and not picked up by any seismic or radiation readers anywhere in the gulf, but, remarkably, only visible to nutters on the net. Sounds plausible.
      • hoom 11.1.1

        26 May 2015 at 11:29 am

        If it was a Nuke (which Neutron bombs are) then the cameraperson would be blind from the flash & dead shortly after from the Neutrons.

        Probably they just hit an ammo dump or other large concentration of explosives.
        Any big enough explosion makes a mushroom cloud, thats just physics.
        • millsy 11.1.1.1

          26 May 2015 at 2:42 pm

          The Isrealis arent that stupid. They know full well that using nuclear weaponry would lead to a huge backlash which ordinary Jews will bear the brunt of.

          A few Arabs arent worth the burning and sacking of every synaogue in Europe.
        • David H 11.1.1.2

          26 May 2015 at 10:42 pm

          If it’s a Neutron bomb then the fl;ash would have been seen by the Americans sattelite network. but it is a nasty bomb.

          “A neutron bomb is a hydrogen bomb without the uranium-238. This lowers the explosive yield while letting the neutrons bust out all over.”

          http://io9.com/though-it-seems-crazy-now-the-neutron-bomb-was-intende-1636604514
      • David H 11.1.2

        26 May 2015 at 10:51 pm

        @E Pineapples. That’s not a Nuc for one the flash would have blinded anyone looking at it, and the camera would have died from the EMP released.
    • joe90 11.2

      26 May 2015 at 1:58 pm

      Most likely a thermobaric weapon.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon
      • te reo putake 11.2.1

        26 May 2015 at 2:08 pm

        Er, most likely a conventional weapon. Possibly a large one. It also depends on what the target was; if it was a munitions dump then big bangs can obviously be expected. The other thing about the bogus original story is the lack of context (how big? How far away from the photographer? What was hit? etc.).
        • joe90 11.2.1.1

          26 May 2015 at 2:22 pm

          Fuel-air devices are conventional.
          • te reo putake 11.2.1.1.1

            26 May 2015 at 2:34 pm

            Hmmm, by definition they’re not conventional. Do you mean they’re in common use?
            • joe90 11.2.1.1.1.1

              26 May 2015 at 3:14 pm

              Yup, in Syria, drone, fixed wing and helicopter borne Hellfires used across the middle east to incinerate people and reported use in the recent demolition of Gaza.

              “Flechette shells, fuel-air bombs (which explode twice, including after impact), dime shells, and flechette shells saturated with uranium were fired at Gaza Strip,” the statement added, stressing that the weapons “affect the environment, soil, and water and will affect the next generations by spreading diseases especially cancer.

              http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/jerusalem-hospital-children
              • Colonial Rawshark …

                26 May 2015 at 6:47 pm

                yeah most likely a MOAB type device.

                If it had been a neutron bomb the EMP would have fried everything electronic which wasn’t hardened, certainly within the 4-5 mile radius that footage was taken in.
    • TheContrarian 11.3

      26 May 2015 at 2:06 pm

      Yep – looks like utter bullshit.

      Though Ugly Truth should be around any time now to tell us how it’s real because Jews.
      • Colonial Rawshark 11.3.1

        26 May 2015 at 6:49 pm

        Though Ugly Truth should be around any time now to tell us how it’s real because Jews.

        because Israeli Government. Don’t conflate them with “Jews.”
12. One Anonymous Bloke 12

    26 May 2015 at 10:56 am

    Also linked in the Roy Morgan thread.

    Problem: the NZ Law Society warns the UN that the National Party is undermining the rule of law.

    National Party solution: abandon commitment to the rule of law.
13. Chooky 13

    26 May 2015 at 11:10 am

    Are we on a hiding to nowhere?!…We need to pull our brave troops out of Iraq !….Where is the Labour Party on this?….There is no reason for our troops to be there training Iraqi troops if Iraqi troops don’t want to fight!!!!

    ….the Left must get together on this and oppose jonkey Nact and pull the troops out NOW!

    ‘‘No will’ to fight ISIS? US Defense Sec blasts Iraqi troops’

    http://rt.com/usa/261681-carter-iraq-fight-isis-ramadi/

    “US Defense Secretary Ash Carter has lashed out at the Iraqi army, which last week abandoned the major central city of Ramadi, as well as millions of dollars’ worth of equipment, to the Islamic State, despite reportedly outnumbering the jihadists 10-to-1.

    “What apparently happened was that the Iraqi forces just showed no will to fight. They were not outnumbered. In fact, they vastly outnumbered the opposing force, and yet they failed to fight, they withdrew from the site,” Carter, who was appointed earlier this year, told CNN in scathing commentary.”
    • hoom 13.1

      26 May 2015 at 11:40 am

      I find it particularly odd that NZ media keeps on talking about the front line as being Ramadi 100km away from Taji eg http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11454591
      ISIS has been in control of Fallujah only about 30km away since Jan 2014.
14. Clemgeopin 14

    26 May 2015 at 11:43 am

    The sky city-convention-centre. New plans:

    The comments from readers under this article are interesting. Take a look.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/68851861/govt-greenlights-skycity-convention-centre

    Five crucial points :
    (1) the government practically gifted the tax payer owned TVNZ land to Sky City for this convention centre (2) All the income and profits made will go to the coffers of Sky City and its share holders and not to us, the government (3) To allow Sky City this huge money making bonanza, the government reduced the pokie machine numbers from small outlets, clubs etc from around the regions in the country, and increased the number of pokie machines and other gambling tables for their Sky City crooked corporate mates. (4) If instead of giving huge tax cuts worth billions of dollars each year that primarily benefit the most wealthy the most, had the government itself or a public-private-council partnership funded this convention centre, then the international centre would have been OURS as an SOE and profits would have been OURS in perpetuity.(5) We have an unpatriotic, myopic, cunning government that primarily works for the wealthy, the corporates and their mates.
    • DoublePlusGood 14.1

      26 May 2015 at 4:26 pm

      Well, we could always just repossess the land, given that it was procured in such an ill-gotten manner.
      • Clemgeopin 14.1.1

        26 May 2015 at 4:33 pm

        Legally not that easy because it was passed by parliament (I think).
        • Kiwiri 14.1.1.1

          26 May 2015 at 6:33 pm

          Is there any statement from the Labour Party that they no longer receive any donations from SkyCity, whether directly or indirectly or in any elusive way that would be difficult to track? Will Labour campaign to reverse Nat’s law that increased the number of pokie machines?
          • Clemgeopin 14.1.1.1.1

            26 May 2015 at 10:29 pm

            I don’t know. I have nothing to do with the Labour party. Just a Labour party supporter. I like their great policies based on socialism, social justice, fairness, pragmatism, common sense and care.

            I voted Mana at the last election as I did not like Hone and IMP being attacked unfairly!

            Regarding Sky City donation, that would be declared in the election returns.

            No idea about ‘indirectly’. Hope not. It is high time for all MPs to be honest and corruption free of big business influence and being tempted by corporate crooks.

            Reversing pokie machine laws or the Sky City deal will be difficult legally I think, because these contracts deals are legal stuff and voted in by parliament.

            I suppose it could be done but at very huge cost in money, and business trust both nationally and internationally. So no, I don’t think that will be possible, though I am sure the future governments will be able to change gambling laws through parliament because parliament is supreme. But I think only the wily secretive brethren Steven Joyce knows the small prints in the deal. I doubt if he published the ENTIRE document. Did he?
15. Puckish Rogue 15

    26 May 2015 at 11:47 am

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/274516/malaysian-diplomat-pleads-not-guilty-to-indecent-assault

    – Hes plead not guilty to a lesser charge, interesting
16. Draco T Bastard 16

    26 May 2015 at 3:39 pm

    What Classical Liberal Economist Adam Smith Would Have Thought About the TPP Negotiations

    The proposal of any new law or regulation of commerce which comes from this order ought always to be listened to with great precaution, and ought never to be adopted till after having been long and carefully examined, not only with the most scrupulous, but with the most suspicious attention.

    It comes from an order of men whose interest is never exactly the same with that of the public, who have generally an interest to deceive and even to oppress the public, and who accordingly have, upon many occasions, both deceived and oppressed it.

    The people writing up the TPPA are the big businesses, those that Adam Smith described as having “deceived and oppressed” the public. The secrecy surrounding the TPPA is part of that ongoing oppression of the public for the benefit of the corporations.
17. Draco T Bastard 17

    26 May 2015 at 4:05 pm

    League: Sir Owen Glenn enlists John Banks to help run Warriors trust

    How long before we find Banks up in court again for signing a document that’s incorrect?
    • McFlock 17.1

      26 May 2015 at 4:12 pm

      lol – and ISTR that the electoral act was aberrant in having the “knowing it to be false” qualification, rather than the basic “signs false declaration” prohibition.
      • tinfoilhat 17.1.1

        26 May 2015 at 4:27 pm

        Good ness I couldn’t believe that headline and was wondering what he was thinking.

        Having read the article i must admit I never knew Banks was so involved in league over the years.
        • Draco T Bastard 17.1.1.1

          26 May 2015 at 4:47 pm

          I don’t think how long he’s been involved matters much. It’s the fact that seemingly every time he’s in a position of power and responsibility he goes round signing legal documents without reading them or checking them for things like facts and truthfulness.
          • One Anonymous Bloke 17.1.1.1.1

            26 May 2015 at 6:43 pm

            If you know of a better way to profit from corruption and avoid jail I’m sure he’d be all ears.
18. just saying 18

    26 May 2015 at 4:07 pm

    I’m changing my internet/phone company.
    Flip looks the cheapest. Anyone know anything about them?
    Good, bad, indifferent?
    Ta
    • Johnycomelater 18.1

      26 May 2015 at 7:10 pm

      Yes, they are one of cheapest. Just switched to them 2 weeks ago at work. (small office in a biggish building). Been connected apparently but no service. Not there problem because they use Chorus for connections. Chorus will charge to come and inspect it and Flip don’t do call backs regarding problem resolution.

      Also like most other providers, it take for ever to get through to Tech support (4 hours yesterday and slightly better today at 1 hour). Ended up calling sales and got through directly.

      Pretty average IMHO and thinking about ditching them.
      • Kiwiri 18.1.1

        26 May 2015 at 10:05 pm

        never used them before
        well, going by how ‘average’ they seem to be in terms of service provided by help desk, we know what the expression is for the other side of flip
        … flop
      • just saying 18.1.2

        27 May 2015 at 8:23 am

        Thanks,
        It seems that cheap is synonymous with really bad service.
        Unfortunately the sorts of messes they can make can make them more expensive in the long run.
19. Ennui 19

    26 May 2015 at 5:59 pm

    Just been looking around The Standard and see collective woe at the latest polls. I sense an aura of powerlessness on the “Left” like a rabbit in the headlights. Key the Untouchable, ruler of all you see.

    Couple of observations..Key Stormcrow. Imagine petrol getting very rare very quickly. Theres fighting going on near the Saudi oilfields and its spread to Yemen. ISIL runs riot, Iran see the US as the great Satan but will fight for Shiism against the Sunni. Its got the potential to kill off exports of oil, to break markets. On top of this the financial markets sit on the brink of failure. What could this do to our trade? Or the Auckland property bubble. In short the disasters are lining up to kill our economy and Key with it.

    Given that Keys mob rely upon paying some of us with baubles to get votes any of the above could be fatal. Now imagine that the storm is so severe that the current wealthy lose everything and the rest become destitute. The end result could be the loss of all legitimacy. Are the Left ready for or up to the challenge. ? I doubt it going by the comments here. All I see is the wish to control the status quo for different beneficiaries. The coming storms wont leave anything worth benefitting from.
    • Colonial Rawshark 19.1

      26 May 2015 at 6:12 pm

      +100

      Labour trying to figure out how to restack electronic ones and zeroes to pay for Super in 2050 misses the mark by so far its not even worth measuring.
      • te reo putake 19.1.1

        26 May 2015 at 6:26 pm

        Wooosh!
        • Colonial Rawshark 19.1.1.1

          26 May 2015 at 8:08 pm

          Labour is welcome to run mucking around with NZ Super by the voters again in 2017, if it likes.
          • te reo putake 19.1.1.1.1

            26 May 2015 at 8:24 pm

            Last time I heard, you were Labour. Has something changed?
            • Colonial Rawshark 19.1.1.1.1.1

              26 May 2015 at 8:40 pm

              Lots of Labour people think that fucking around with NZ Super is not just electoral death, but also plain wrong headed. I’ll be making sure the MPs hear that message loud and clear. The less compliant the Labour membership is from here on in with voter losing BS, the better.
              • Craig H …

                26 May 2015 at 9:58 pm

                Was pretty clear what we thought about it at region 5 conference – it’s toxic, and leave it.
                • Kiwiri …

                  26 May 2015 at 10:08 pm

                  Of course it is toxic and Labour MPs must surely appreciate that or don’t they?
                  • Colonial Rawshark …

                    26 May 2015 at 10:21 pm

                    They are wed to orthodox economic and monetary thinking, which means that at best, they aspire to a future of being better book keepers and detail managers than National.
                • Colonial Rawshark …

                  26 May 2015 at 10:22 pm

                  Craig H – thanks for the report from Region 5
      • Chooky 19.1.2

        26 May 2015 at 6:33 pm

        +100 CR and Ennui
20. Ron 20

    26 May 2015 at 9:26 pm

    Watching Parliament recently and noted how few MP’s were present. This of course is because MP’s no longer need to be present as whips cast the votes on their behalf.
    It seems to me that this is a retrograde step. All MP’s should be present at all times with few exceptions.
    Unfortunately it would be very difficult to change it back now a bit like turkeys voting for Thanksgiving.

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