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Open mike 26/06/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 26th, 2013 - 231 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

231 comments on “Open mike 26/06/2013”

  1. Jenny 1

    Live stream to Obama’s speech on climate change.

    http://live.reuters.com/Event/politics

    “Every country has to play its part”.

    “it will require all of us….

    “Those of us in positions of responsibility will have to less concerned with the worries of special interests…..

    • Morrissey 1.1

      “Those of us in positions of responsibility will have to less concerned with the worries of special interests…..”

      Jenny, you do realize who spoke those words, don’t you? I presume you are posting this up as satire.

    • Jenny 1.2

      What will be the response of political leaders around the world, and our leaders here, to Obama’s speech?

      Will John Key issue a statement in response?

      Unlikely

      How about David Shearer?

      Also unlikely

      What about the Greens?

      Will the Green Party issue a statement calling on the other two to give a response and make a stand?

      Will Obama’s speech be just like a pebble dropped into the ocean, unremarked in this country and around the world?

      In the face of this existential threat like no other ever faced by humanity, will business as usual be the unspoken commitment that we will receive from our leaders?

      • Morrissey 1.2.1

        What will be the response of political leaders around the world, and our leaders here, to Obama’s speech?

        MEMO JENNY:
        Barack Obama is not taken seriously by anyone. He did nothing at all during his first term except spout rhetoric (that impressed Jim Mora at least) but he was too timid or too compromised or too indolent to actually DO anything, whether it was about conservation, or justice in the middle east, or anything at all. Now, barely six months into his second term, this ineffectual and empty poseur is already a lame duck.

        Why are you urging people to flog this dead horse?

        Yours mixed metaphorically,

        Morrissey

        • Lanthanide 1.2.1.1

          Not sure exactly what you were expecting Obama to achieve when he was saddled with an incredibly partisan and frankly insane republican majority in the house.

          Also he did get the health reforms through – a shadow of what they needed to be, but an achievement none-the-less.

        • Tiger Mountain 1.2.1.2

          No one gets to be pressie without being in the belly of the US imperialist beast.

        • Sanctuary 1.2.1.3

          On May 9 2012 in an ABC interview Obama said “…I think same-sex couples should be able to get married.” This reverberated around the world. The gay marriage movement in this country had been bubbling along gaining litle traction until then, Obama’s comments made a huge impact here – Bob McCroskie launched his anti-gay marriage a month later, and the entire thing was done and dusted here within eleven months of Obama’s comments. Since then I think eight or so countries have legalised gay marriage and it has become a major issue again in many others.

          So it is total hogwash no one takes seriously the US President in general or Obama in particular. Just because you don’t like him doesn’t mean he isn’t important. People take him seriously all over the world, even his corrupt congress does – it just spends it time opposing him, that is all.

      • muzza 1.2.2

        Jenny, you realise that Obama is controlled by various industry, right!

        Such as the oil/gas industry, the nuclear industry, you get that eh!

        Yes or No?

        • Te Reo Putake 1.2.2.1

          I’m pretty sure it’s actually the NBA, Moz.

        • Jenny 1.2.2.2

          What ever you think of President Obama, muzza, and Morrissey, (and from your comments, it doesn’t sound like much). President Obama has made a statement strongly supporting doing something about climate change and encouraging others around the world to rise to the challenge also.

          Muzza/Morrissey I think you are both missing the point I was making. (and I suspect deliberately)

          Will Obama’s challenge be ignored by our political leaders here?

          Will they, (and I mean any of them) even acknowledge Obama’s speech?

          Will any of them, and I mean any of them, come out in support of Obama and suggest that we need to go even go further?

          Or are they still determined to continue on as if they can afford to ignore this issue?

          And lastly, muzza and Morrissey, is your attack on Obama’s credibility just an excuse to provide political cover for those parties here who wish to do nothing?

  2. Boadicea 2

    Voter support for Labour and its leader, David Shearer, has slumped in the latest Herald-DigiPoll survey. Audrey Young in the Hersld today.

    The party has lost 5.5 percentage points since March, and Mr Shearer is down 6.1 points as preferred Prime Minister.

    National’s support has barely moved and it is still polling high at 48.8 per cent of decided voters.

    Prime Minister John Key is preferred Prime Minister for 65.2 per cent, up 2.6 points on his last rating.

    If the poll were translated to votes, National would not be able to govern alone.

    Either National or Labour would be able to form a government.

    But Labour would need four other parties, and National would have more options including being able to form a government with only New Zealand First support, only Maori Party support, or support from Act and United Future.

    Mr Shearer has been Labour leader for a little over 18 months, after beating former finance spokesman David Cunliffe in a contest involving the party membership.

    Today’s poll could put added pressure on Mr Shearer’s leadership, which has been attracting stronger criticism lately from the remnants of Mr Cunliffe’s support on the left than from the right.

    Mr Key has taken to taunting Mr Shearer in Parliament about being under the control of deputy leader Grant Robertson.

    But more voters see Mr Cunliffe as a successor should Mr Shearer no longer be in contention.

    Asked who would be best to replace Mr Shearer if he left politics, 31.8 per cent supported Mr Cunliffe and 16.7 per cent Mr Robertson.

    The dark horse is Andrew Little, a first-term list MP and former national secretary of the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union, who had 13.5 per cent support as a possible replacement.

    Eleven per cent wanted someone else and 27 per cent did not know or refused to say.

    Among Labour supporters, 37.7 per cent supported Mr Cunliffe if Mr Shearer weren’t there, 19 per cent Mr Robertson and 14 per cent Mr Little.

    Labour’s party vote support appears to have gone to New Zealand First and the Greens.

    New Zealand First’s support rose above the 5 per cent threshold, and support for Winston Peters as preferred Prime Minister is up from 4 per cent to 6.4 per cent.

    Party vote figures in the poll are: National 48.8 (up 0.3), Labour 30.9 (down 5.5), Greens 10.5 (up 1.5), NZ First 5.1 (up 2.6), Maori Party 1.8 (up 0.7), Mana 0.5 (no change), United Future 0.3 (up 0.3) and Act 0.2 (up 0.1). The Conservatives gained 2.65 per cent of the vote at the last election but no MPs polled 1.5 (up 0.2).

    Support for Mr Shearer rose in March to 18.5 per cent when National was mired in issues such as the failure of the Novopay pay system for teachers, the Solid Energy crisis and the partial sale of Mighty River Power.

    Since the last poll, the Government has lost list MP Aaron Gilmore and passed its Budget, but a lot of the political focus since then has been on United Future leader Peter Dunne.

    Mr Dunne resigned as a minister as the chief suspect in the leak of a confidential report.

    Party vote results and preferred Prime Minister results are of decided voters only.

    On the party vote questions, 11.9 per cent of poll respondents were undecided.

    NZ First ratings edge up

    The biggest movements in the latest Herald-DigiPoll survey are among older voters. And it appears New Zealand First has had a boost at the expense of Labour.

    Overall, Labour has fallen from 36.5 per cent in the March poll to 30.9 per cent in the June poll published today. NZ First has risen from 2.5 per cent in March to 5.1 per cent now, based on the poll of 750 respondents.

    Labour has gone from having a high level of support among the 65 and over voters in March – 40.5 per cent compared to its overall party vote of 36.1 per cent – to just 28.2 per cent.

    Among the younger age group, 18 to 39, the Green Party has disproportionate support, but that is evident in most polls.

    Last time 54.8 per cent of men supported National and 42.4 per cent of women, compared to 48.5 per cent overall. This time 49.9 per cent of men and 47.7 per cent of women supported National, which has 48.8 per cent overall.

    As preferred Prime Minister, David Shearer is supported by 12.4 per cent overall but by 15.2 per cent of women and 9.6 per cent of men. In March he had 18.5 per cent and even support from men and women.

    John Key is on 65.2 per cent and has almost even support of men and women.

    Herald-Digipoll

    Party vote
    • National – 48.8% (up 0.3)
    • Labour – 30.9% (down 5.5)

    Preferred PM
    • John Key – 65.2% (up 2.6)
    • David Shearer – 12.4% (down 6.1)

    • Jenny 2.1

      Maybe Shearer should listen to President Obama and pull his head out of the Sand over climate change. Shearer needs to heed Obama’s call for other nations to play their part, and publicly announce that an incoming Labour administration will stop all new coal projects, and all other extreme hydrocarbon extraction plans like fracking and deep sea oil.

      As for the Nacts. They need to be strongly condemned in every forum, for being as Obama says only concerned for the concerns of special interests.

      Maybe then Shearer might be recognised as a leader.

      Until then, Shearer and the party he leads will remain unrecognised unknown, and in the public mind sullenly silent and negative.

      • Saarbo 2.1.1

        If this doesn’t spell out clearly to Shearer supporters that we have a serious problem then nothing will. (Well maybe a bad result in Ikaroa Rawhiti will compound).

        Changes need to be made, perhaps some more deadwood need to be sent packing at the same time as Shearer loses his Leadership. It is not too late. There is NO WAY Shearer has what it takes to roll Key in 2014 (Currently there is a huge VOID in leadership in Labour), Shearer supporters need to swallow their pride and give Cunliffe a chance.

        To work this needs to be driven by Shearer and Robertson factions…..if they have the maturity and foresight to do this then Labour has a chance of winning in 2014, otherwise roll on 2017, 3 more years of New Zealand moving towards the extreme Right.

        • BM 2.1.1.1

          For the long term health of the Labour party, National needs to win the next election.
          That way Mallard , King, Goff and the rest of the bludging relics can be given the boot and replaced with fresh faces.
          Shearer winning the next election would be the end of Labour.

          • Saarbo 2.1.1.1.1

            yes but this National party is hopeless, if it wasn’t for Chch, the economy would have tanked.

            I agree that some of the deadwood needs to be cleaned out, but unlike some on TS I actually quite like Labour’s Policies, the problem is the Leadership…its non existent and it has a complete inability to sell itself.

            THIS IS FAR AND AWAY LABOURS BIGGEST ISSUE AND IT NEEDS TO BE SORTED.

          • Jane 2.1.1.1.2

            Sadly Mallard has no where to go so will go no where, if he had any honor he would have quit after managing Labours worst election result in recent history. He cuts a sad old grumpy figure from the second row, grasping at past glories and taking up space that should be filled with newer blood. A more accurate example of ‘deadwood’ is hard to find.

            • JK 2.1.1.1.2.1

              Jane – Mallard will hang on in there – he wants to be Speaker, doncha know ! and he thinks Shearer is the way to get there. More fool him !

            • karol 2.1.1.1.2.2

              Mallard – “Honour”? – it’s not about him , but what’s best for New Zealanders.

              It’s thoroughly depressing that the main opposition party plays personality politics while the country goes down the gurgler, and democracy with it.

              And that goes for the rest of Team Shearer-Robertson.

          • Lanthanide 2.1.1.1.3

            I agree that Labour winning 2014 is more likely to do the party harm than help them, at least under Shearer’s leadership (and the team that put him there).

            But the left will keep on trucking, even if Labour falls behind.

        • James 2.1.1.2

          The problem with labour is a lot more than just Shearer,

          No direction. stuck in the dark ages. Borrow and spend policies. Playing second fiddle to the Greens. In bed with the unions.

          Some of those you might think are OK (like the union bit) – but you forget that people outside of your core voters dont like them – and dont want NZ run by a party with its stings pulled by unions.

          Upshot – The general man in the street dosnt like Labour or what it seems to stand for these days.

          And this is reflected in the polls. Its not just the man in front (even the best salesman has trouble shifting a fundamentally broken product)

          I know that you will disagree. That’s OK – keep relying on – its a rouge, biased because only calling land lines, if you look at the trends … blagh blagh blagh. you all know better – Im a tit as I dont agree with you etc. You know the usual excuses you come up with on other threads.

          • Tiger Mountain 2.1.1.2.1

            Labour is a conflicted party, still wounded by neo liberalism. Even a return to Norm Kirk style policies would make the LP look like revolutionaries. Green and Mana are the future for the parliamentary left unless the LP has a few retirements v.soon.

            Social democracy is enough of a dead end ideology anyway without the bumbling equivocation of David Shearer.

            • weka 2.1.1.2.1.1

              “Labour is a conflicted party, still wounded by neo liberalism”

              “Labour is a conflicted party, its power-holders still deeply wedded to neo liberalism”

              fify.

          • Rogue Trooper 2.1.1.2.2

            best comment of yours I’ve read James (ruse).

          • North 2.1.1.2.3

            Yes we all know you find unionism heretical James. On a par with the witches of Salem blah blah blah.

            Beats me how any rational person can endorse lawful free association in service of shared common interest in all other areas of our nation’s existence, yet carp on like a psychotic Alf Garnett when the same is engaged by workers in their shared common interest.

            It is you who lives in the dark ages James and whine as you might, it will take more than an obsessive union-hater to take us back there. Yes, we know the World is flat. And if it’s not it bloody well should be !

            You can’t see or hear your irrelevant ranting James. Everyone else (emabarrassed for you) can. Grow up !

      • Gosman 2.1.2

        Goodbye West Coast and New Plymouth.

        • Allyson 2.1.2.1

          New Plymouth is lost to Labor. Cuddling up to Greens in energy land while parachuting Andrew “do a runner” Little as candidate for last election both bad mistakes and will not be forgotten.

        • vto 2.1.2.2

          ha ha, like when the west coast disappeared when the native logging was stopped in its tracks gosman?

          history man, learn your history

    • Socialist Paddy 2.2

      Feck.

      If the drums arn’t beating for a leadership spill then there is no life left in the Labour caucus.

    • Matthew Hooton 2.3

      I think I might have another media BBQ on the first sunny weekend. David Cunliffe invited again. He should show up this time.

      • Scottsboy 2.3.1

        The Labour Party did not benefit from attending your Auckland BBQs in the past. Cheap sausages and good champagne should not be mixed.
        It is time for Labour to close ranks againt those who want Key to continue in power, e.g. Hooton, Armstrong and Sullivan.
        LEC’s and Branches and Union meetings are the place for discusion on the party’s direction.

      • Saarbo 2.3.2

        People make quite different decisions when they are sober Matthew, alcohol impairs judgement.

        Drunk media chose Shearer….

        Best if everyone stays off the piss this time.

        • felix 2.3.2.1

          None of Hooton’s mates can handle their drink anyway. Bunch of lightweights.

        • Matthew Hooton 2.3.2.2

          Certainly Shearer seemed to be most coherent and articulate that day …

          • thatguynz 2.3.2.2.1

            Come on Hooton, do you honestly expect that people believe your tripe that your band of merry men and women did their utmost to support Shearer for the good of the Labour party?

            Jesus wept. If you expect people to swallow that one I’ve got an igloo to sell you next to your Dear Leader’s house in Hawaii..

            • felix 2.3.2.2.1.1

              Well given that a week ago he was insisting that he never had anything to do with Shearer, I think it’s safe to say no; he doesn’t “honestly” expect anything.

              • North

                Ho…..Matthew Hooton for PM !

                Indispensable to our national psyche is the shouty wee paid for oracle with the reptilian smirk.

          • Rogue Trooper 2.3.2.2.2

            still dining out Matthew?

      • Tiger Mountain 2.3.3

        heh, hoots has developed a semblance of humour

    • BM 2.4

      Being either invisible or just slinging shit impresses no one.
      Shearer isn’t a prime ministers arsehole, it’s about time he realizes that and steps down.

      • amirite 2.4.1

        Slinging shit has worked well for Key, so far though. If anything, Shearer is not indulging in slinging shit often enough.

        • BM 2.4.1.1

          You keep believing that.
          The only time I see Shearer on TV is when he’s all worked up and telling every one what a crappy job John Key and National are doing.
          Needs too be a lot more positive, you’ll never win being a divisive moaning wanker.

          • Molly 2.4.1.1.1

            Agree. Shearer never seems able to come out with a strong, decisive statement – and that is his major failing.

            Comments are always framed around what National is doing, and calls for public inquiries….

            He needs to go.

          • Molly 2.4.1.1.2

            Agree. Shearer never seems able to come out with a strong, decisive statement – and that is his major failing.

            Comments are always framed around what National is doing, and calls for public inquiries….

            He needs to go.

          • framu 2.4.1.1.3

            “Needs too be a lot more positive, you’ll never win being a divisive moaning wanker.” seems to work just dandy for key

        • Rob 2.4.1.2

          I think Slinging Shit has been the only strategy that Labour have had since Key got in. Following on from these stirling results it has got them nowhere.

          However the sun will rise tomorrow and that will be followed by yet another TS post outlining Key as a failure and a liar. So much for the idea that repeating the same behaviour and expecting a different result is a sure fire sign of ……oh wait…..

      • mac1 2.4.2

        BM, you wrote “just slinging shit impresses no one.”

        Then you said, “isn’t a prime ministers arsehole.”

        Your first statement is absolutely on the money.

      • North 2.4.3

        Dead right BM. That particular arsehole is spoken for. Slavishly liked by the licks of you.

    • Colonial Viper 2.5

      Labour has no idea why its poll performance has been so mediocre. Until it does, playing another round of musical chairs with the leadership is pointless. New captain same sinking ship? Thatll be the second half of Hootens dream come true. Clue – NZ Power should have been just the start, and backing the Greens on some economic and monetary alternatives.

      Stand unashamedly for the disadvantaged in society for godssakes, not try and find a “balance”.

      • Sanctuary 2.5.1

        Just to pull a name out of the hat, anyone spotted Maryan Street lately? You know, opposing the gutting of the RMA, mining, and the attacks on Auckland by her opposite in government Nick Smith? No, didn’t think so. She is quite useless, and clearly lazy to boot. Still, she is an ex-NZLP bureaucrat and a lesbian woman so that makes her a paid up member of the self-absorbed Labour Wellington political class, which makes her utter uselessness all right I suppose.

        If you are beltway senior labour right-wing MP you earn a fat six figure salary to work just as hard as you feel like, you are broadly in agreement with 90% of the governments agenda and 30% in the polls guarantees you and the rest of your faction in control of the parliamentary wing a job for life.

        Working hard, and selecting a winning and articulate leadership that gets you over over 40% in the polls just means they newly independent and feisty members might send a whole bunch of n00bs to parliament who will challenge your factions superiority.

        Noooooooo to that! It might an opposition MPs office, but it IS an office.

        So – crisis? What crisis you talkin’ bout, Willis?

        • karol 2.5.1.1

          Still, she is an ex-NZLP bureaucrat and a lesbian woman so that makes her a paid up member of the self-absorbed Labour Wellington political class, which makes her utter uselessness all right I suppose.,/i>

          What’s sexuality got do to with it?

          In contrast, if a heterosexual is performing badly, why is their sexuality rarely mentioned?

          • ropata 2.5.1.1.1

            it is a symbol of why the NZ public lost faith in the labour government: captured by (sexual) identity politics and nanny-ish interventions, they failed to address social inequality nor restrain the excesses of finance companies

            • Rogue Trooper 2.5.1.1.1.1

              interesting ropata

            • McFlock 2.5.1.1.1.2

              like, three issues, most of which were private members’ bills, were the reason Labour were too busy to “restrain the excesses of finance companies”?

              Nope.
              Labour were tired and the people forgot how bad National were at running a country.

              • ropata

                No, the *NZ public* were tired of Labour’s (perceived) weird policies, being scolded by Sue Bradford, and Michael Cullen hoarding record govt revenues for a rainy day.

                I agree that we forgot how bad National are at governing, but we also have never seen such an efficient marketing apparatus as the one around Key’s natty team, nor have we seen a PM of such charisma since David Lange

                • Rob

                  Yep Ropata you are on the money. The big issue with the finance industry debacle is that no matter how many people just laugh it off, it has caused massive pain and taken a huge lump of private capital and wealth out of middle NZ. This is exactly the type of capital that we need to be invested in NZ businesses to allow them to grow and employ more.

                • Tim

                  Christ! – you and I have a very different definition of ‘charisma’. Never mind though – I suspect it’s me that’s out of tune with muddle Nu Zull.
                  I wonder how krismetic they think John Key is now though – if they weigh up all the lying and bs.

                • Rogue Trooper

                  furthermore, commentary in the street has been how the Greens would not have a bar of Sue’s failure to fall in line, or vice versa.

              • Rogue Trooper

                😉

            • weka 2.5.1.1.1.3

              “it is a symbol of why the NZ public lost faith in the labour government: captured by (sexual) identity politics”

              All politics are identity politics. Some of us are just more honest about it.

        • Paul 2.5.1.2

          It’s called careerist politicians.

        • Murray Olsen 2.5.1.3

          I’d like to know what her sexuality has to do with anything as well. What about that useless heterosexual man, Trevor Mallard?

    • David H 2.6

      So Labour are still going to carry the millstones that are Shearer, Robertson, and Mallard into the next election. How many points does it take to drop before they have a clean out? 10? 20?

    • Pete 2.7

      This morning on TV3’s Firstline, Shearer said there would be no change in strategy.

      ”We’re going to be doing exactly what we are doing now,” Shearer said when asked what difference the poll would make.

      Stuff

      The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Shearer has had his chance. Someone else needs to take the leadership. I was originally Team Cunliffe, and he’s still my preferred choice, but I’d accept Robertson, Little, even Goff at this stage.

      David Shearer will never be Prime Minister.

      • Colonial Viper 2.7.1

        Basically, yes. Although I think Cunliffe should probably be somewhere on the front bench instead of backbench Siberia.

        However my fear is that Shearer says no change not because that’s what he wants, but because the entire senior team is truly compassless and has no idea what to do differently. Maybe give them another 6 months?

        PS its a real easy formula for Labour to win, stand unashamedly for the disadvantaged and the struggling. And ditch some of the more onerous neo liberal and monetary constraints this nation is subservient to.

        • Rosetinted 2.7.1.1

          CV +1 particularly like your summation.

          And ditch some of the more onerous neo liberal and monetary constraints this nation is subservient to.

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.7.1.1.1

            I suspect that this is not a drop at all but that the last Herald poll, which had Labour rising, was rogue.

            The bad news for Labour is that this would mean that they have made no headway at all.

            • bad12 2.7.1.1.1.1

              What you are really suggesting is that all Herald polls are shit and no-one should take the slightest notice of such rubbish,

              The right in desperation at the true nature of National’s vote, in my opinion 42-43.5%, are now flogging NZFirst simply because no matter how thick they are they now realize they have no other option left to gain a third term in 2014…

              • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                You have an opinion of the level of National’s support? Why didn’t you say so before? We can stop all this bothersome polling every three months and just ask bad12 what his or her opinion of the support of each party is. Actually, when you think about it, why bother with elections.

                • Rosetinted

                  Wevvilybiscuit
                  Fancy you as opinionated as you are, castigating bad12 for that. I presume you don’t mean that we should step down in favour of bad12 as dictator. Though the opinions offered sound sound. Perhaps you haven’t any points to argue so are merely doing more of the s..t throwing that is the last resort of those facing being disproved.

                  • Rosetinted

                    lprent
                    When I submitted my last comment above I got the rolling ball showing that it was being processed and then I got the connection cut – service closed message on the site page. So I pressed back arrow and got back onto TS page, went to Home and updated page and found that my comment had gone through. This was a bit confusing though.

                    Also I notice a few duplicate comments going through. Usually if I mistakenly press twice I get a message advising that so don’t get that.

                • bad12

                  Yawn….

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.7.1.2

          I am not sure your recipe is a good one, CV. After all, Labour is lefter now than they have been since 1975 and the voters demonstrably hate it.

          • felix 2.7.1.2.1

            Nonsense. The fact that a couple of vague nods to social responsibility looks so “left” (to you and John Key) just shows how deeply stuck in the right wing status quo they are.

            Also, voters don’t hate Labour. We’re just not interested in Labour because they offer nothing different, especially to those who most need something different.

            • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.7.1.2.1.1

              Well, if the voters are not responding to Labour because they are not left enough, why are Mana not enjoying that support?

              • felix

                Well actually I didn’t say they aren’t “left enough”, I said they aren’t offering anything different. And I don’t think your idea of of “left” has much to do with my idea of “different”.

                But seeing as you went there, Hone’s majority is more than 1000 votes. Over Labour.

                • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                  …in one electorate.

                • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                  …in one electorate.

                  • felix

                    That makes two, counting the one you mentioned above…

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                      So, is your position that the Mana Party is more electorally popular than the Labour party?

                    • Rogue Trooper

                      certainly ‘more popular’ up Gizzy and Wairoa ways, listening to the kumara vine.

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                      So, remind me, do votes cast outside Gizzy and Wairoa count in a general election?

                    • Rogue Trooper

                      only concentrating on one byelection at a time my friend.

                  • North

                    Introducing Mana into this argument is ridiculous Gormless and you know it.

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                      I don’t see why, North. Lots of people here seem to think Labour are so electorally unpopular because they are not left enough. But the parties to the left of them are even less popular, so that can’t be right.

                    • Rogue Trooper

                      Parties to the left of Labour are not unpopular with their growing constituency base GF; conflation methinks you display for one so ‘perceptive’. There is a grassroots movement underfoot, oh, that’s Right, you have not been following the increased surveillance debate…/

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                      Well, of course they are not unpopular with the people who support them, but that’s a bit of a shit argument. Kyle Chapman’s political movement is popular with the people who support it as well. Folk dancing is popular with the people who support that, as well. Doesn’t mean it is popular in the populace as a whole.

                      According to the Digipoll, Colin Craig’s bunch of fuck heads enjoy three times the level of support of the Mana Party.

                    • felix

                      Crikey you’re right Gormy! Kyle Chapman’s Onanist Party has far fewer members than Labour!

                      This is conclusive proof that voters are staying away from Labour because they’re further to the right than they’ve ever been before.

                      etc etc.

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                      I know you understand that this is not the point I was making Felix. Why are you pretending to be dumb?

                    • felix

                      It’s exactly the same point. I just compared them to a right wing party instead of a left wing one.

                      The idiocy of the comparison is identical, and for the same reason.

        • bad12 2.7.1.3

          Why anyone would give an iota of credence to a political poll conducted by or on behalf of the HERALD is beyond me,

          There is only one remote possibility of Slippery the PM gaining a third term for this National Government and that is with the support of Winston’s NZFirst,

          The wider press have for the past 5 years attempted to sway the electorate by ‘deliberately’ talking down the true % NZFirst enjoyed from the electorate, i used at the 2011 election a specific gambling/poll to correctly judge NZFirst’s support by simply monitoring the % over the months leading up to that election that that particular gambling/poll discounted the NZFirst % back down under the 5% every time that party attained the 5% over a number of months,

          THEY are messing with your minds via their polls and i would suggest any left leaning voter who voted for Winston in 2011 seriously think about voting for another party…

        • James 2.7.1.4

          its a real easy formula for Labour to win, stand unashamedly for the disadvantaged and the struggling. And ditch some of the more onerous neo liberal and monetary constraints this nation is subservient to.

          or, you could be wrong and it puts them further down in the polls.

        • Tim 2.7.1.5

          “…. but because the entire senior team is truly compassless ,,,,”

          I’m afraid it’s worse than that CV – they aren’t even a ‘team’

        • Paul 2.7.1.6

          And don’t rely on the corporate media to give you a fair hearing.
          Bypass them.

      • Saarbo 2.7.2

        ”We’re going to be doing exactly what we are doing now,” Shearer said when asked what difference the poll would make….

        This shows his appalling lack of Leadership and disregard for the people that Labour represents, what he should have said is” …this is a worry, New Zealand has never had greater inequality and clearly we are not connecting with the people who need us. We will be doing everything we can do to change this.”

        He’s useless, for the sake of the Left he has to let go of the Labour Leadership.

    • tc 2.8

      Hear that ducky, kingy, goffy and all you other has beens to comfy in the trough whilst ignoring the wishes of the rank and file.

      It’s the sound of inevitability…….the train wreck is coming unless you hand over the controls and sit back quietly whilst the new blood wrests the agenda back and gets the disaffected third back in the polling booths.

    • Rich the other 2.9

      Labours best option.
      When they are wiped out at the next election the best result New Zealand is a coalition deal with NATIONAL.

    • Rich the other 2.10

      Labours best option.
      When they are wiped out at the next election the best result New Zealand is a coalition deal with NATIONAL.

  3. Jenny 3

    Live stream to Obama’s speech on climate change.

    http://live.reuters.com/Event/politics

    “We are charged with looking after more than the arc of our political careers……

    “But this is not just a job for politicians…..

    “Make your voices heard…..

    • Colonial Viper 3.1

      Coal is going to be discouraged and many thermal plants shut down. Fracking and nuclear power encouraged. XL tar sands pipeline still a possibility if GHG effects are not “significant”.

  4. Morrissey 4

    LIARS OF OUR TIME
    No. 23: Jay Carney

    White House spokesman Jay Carney said the U.S. was expecting the Russians “to look at the options available to them to expel Mr. Snowden back to the United States to face justice for the crimes with which he is charged.”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/25/edward-snowden-ecuador_n_3493911.html

    See also….
    No. 22 Mike Bush: “Bruce Hutton had integrity beyond reproach.”
    No. 21 Tim Groser: “I think the relationship is genuinely in outstanding form.”
    No. 20 John Key: “But if the question is do we use the United States or one of our other partners to circumvent New Zealand law then the answer is categorically no.”
    No. 19 Matthew Hooton: “It is ridiculous to say that unions deliver higher wages! They DON’T!”
    No. 18 Ant Strachan: “The All Blacks won the RWC 2011 because of outstanding defence!”
    No. 17 Stephen Franks: “Peter has been such a level-headed, safe pair of hands.”
    No. 16 Phil Kafcaloudes: “Tony Abbott…hasn’t made any mistakes over the past eighteen months.”
    No. 15 Donald Rumsfeld: “I did not lie… Colin Powell did not lie.”
    No. 14 Colin Powell: “a post-9/11 nexus between Iraq and terrorist organizations…connections are now emerging…”
    No.13 Barack Obama: “Simply put, these strikes have saved lives.”

    Open mike 27/05/2013


    No. 12 U.K. Ministry of Defence: “Protecting the Afghan civilian population is one of ISAF and the UK’s top priorities.”
    No. 11 Brendan O’Connor: “Australia’s approach to refugees is compassionate and generous.”
    No. 10 Boris Johnson: “Londoners have… the best police in the world to look after us and keep us safe.”
    No. 9 NewstalkZB PR dept: “News you NEED! Fast, fair, accurate!”
    No. 8 Simon Bridges: “I don’t mean to duck the question….”
    No. 7 Nigel Morrison: “Quite frankly, they’ve been VERY tough.”
    
/open-mike-15052013/#comment-633295
    
No. 6 NZ Herald PR dept: “Congratulations—you’re reading New Zealand’s best newspaper.”

    
No. 5 Rawdon Christie: “…a FORMIDABLE replacement, it seems, is Claudette Hauiti.”
/open-mike-13052013/#comment-632594

    No. 4 Willie and J.T.: “The X-Factor. Nah, nah, there’s some GREAT talent there!”

    No. 3 John Key: “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”
    
No. 2 Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.”
    
No. 1 Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”

    • DavidC 4.1

      Funny but I dont see Ms Klarks name in the top 3 where she should be for (in any order you like) I believe Winston, I didnt notice we were speeding, I painted that.

      • felix 4.1.1

        Who the feck is “Ms Klark” and what did she say she painted?

        • North 4.1.1.1

          She’s DavidC’s bogeyperson. The one who makes him wake up hot and wimpering in the night and Mummy runs and guides his little thumby into his frightened little mouthy. And one day he’ll grow up to be a fuckwit ! Poor thing. Always lagging a good 5 years behind everyone else. Though for such a littley he’s very knowledgable re The World’s Greatest Art Heists and the Kaikohe Demolition Derby.

        • DavidC 4.1.1.2

          felix.. maybe you slept thru it…
          Ms Klark ruled over Hulungrad … 9 years marred by overspending and election bribes in a bumper time when something should have been left in the public purse..instead we got “I have spent the lot” and a broken trainset.

      • Morrissey 4.1.2

        Funny but I dont see Ms Klarks name in the top 3 where she should be for (in any order you like) I believe Winston, I didnt notice we were speeding, I painted that.

        She might well end up on the list, but not for the minor speeding thing or the Paintergate beat-up. It’s a measure of just how lacking in seriousness you are that those two trivialities are all you can think of to denigrate her.

  5. Te Reo Putake 5

    Real footy updates:

    Romario (now a socialist politician) on the World Cup’s negative effects: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/23/brazil-world-cup-deepen-problems-fifa

    Half a century ago, Liverpool Football Club played ‘socialist’ football. Now they’re just another blot on the landscape: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jun/24/liverpool-houses-landlord

    • tc 5.1

      Yes brazil 2014 will be an interesting media event, how many will venture from the sanctuary of the FIFA endorsed hospitality to see the real Brazil and how some new stadiums are in cities with no professional football club.

      Watched the 2ecobars recently (excellent ESPN documentary)….no surprise that the head of FIFA is a brazilian with a rainforest full of skeletons.

      • muzza 5.1.1

        That is indeed a fine doco, TC.

        Major sporting events, leave the host nations with huge debts, so why was Brazil awared the World Cup, and the Olympics, in an unprecedented move?

        South Africa: The myths and realities of the FIFA soccer World Cup

        http://links.org.au/node/1744

      • Te Reo Putake 5.1.2

        I’m sure you are right that the media contingent will not venture out of the air conditioned suites, except for maybe a spot of police escorted danger tourism to a favela to show how daring they are. However, Brazil in 2014 is still a relatively understandable location. Qatar 2022, on the other hand …

        btw, FIFA’s head is the odious Sepp Blatter, who is Swiss. You might have been thinking of the jackboot loving Joao Havelange, his predecessor. I think he still holds the somewhat ironic title of ‘honorary’ president, though.

  6. Rosetinted 6

    Constitution Conversation –
    Has there been one on The Standard that I have missed? There is still time – through to 31 July. One month and we should be able to come up with some cogent comments.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1306/S00227/submission-deadline-for-constitution-conversation-extended.htm
    and
    http://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/
    and
    http://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/New-Zealands-Constitution

  7. AmaKiwi 7

    Preferred PM
    • John Key – 65.2% (up 2.6)
    • David Shearer – 12.4% (down 6.1)

    For every voter preferring Shearer, there are 5.25 voters who prefer Key.

    Four and a half more years of Nats, by which time Judith Collins will be dictator.

    Who said, “God is merciful.”

    • Winston Smith 7.1

      Yes its a good result for NZ but my main worry is that National won’t get a 4th term (although with Labour being such a shambles you can’t rule anything out) which means NZ will miss out on Collins running the country, building on the great work of John Key

      John Key has stopped the runaway tanker and righted it and soon it’ll be Collins firmly putting the tanker into full steam ahead…if NZ is lucky, if NZ is unlucky the Greens will cobble together a coilition in 2017 and all the good work done by National will be wasted

      • vto 7.1.1

        Is that why more people have left for Australia during Key’s term than any other government ever?

      • thatguynz 7.1.2

        You should have kept your mouth shut and left everyone thinking you were an idiot rather than opening it and proving it.

        • Winston Smith 7.1.2.1

          Don’t worry petal, the left might get a look in around 2017 🙂

          • thatguynz 7.1.2.1.1

            I don’t give a shit about the mythical “left” just as I don’t give a shit about the equally mythical “right”. What I do care about is the country that I am leaving my children and if you think that National (or Labour for that matter) are improving the long term prognosis for this country then quite frankly – you’re deluded..

          • vto 7.1.2.1.2

            You fullas don’t make any sense.

            You denounce the collective approach to everything – and then you embrace the collective approach when it some to your own affiars. e.g. Fonterra, Foodstuffs, pretty much every single coprorate.

            Why is that? Why do you say one thing and do another?

          • Rosetinted 7.1.2.1.3

            Winston Smith
            Have you always been a greenie?

      • ropata 7.1.3

        yes winston,

        key is fucking awesome and the sun shines out his sphincter whenever he craps on NZ

        like when he increases gst and cuts taxes to the wealthy

        and when he flogs off a power company to his rich mates

        or when he gives tax breaks to hollywood and casinos but craps on worker rights

        what a great guy

        we would love to see wages drop

    • Colonial Viper 7.2

      Who said, “God is merciful.”

      The rain falls on both the just, and the unjust.

  8. gobsmacked 8

    The real issue with the Herald poll is that it shows Cunliffe twice as popular with voters (both Labour and overall) as Robertson, or anyone else.

    It doesn’t matter to ABC how badly Labour are doing. If the price of victory is the guy they hate, then they would prefer a defeat. We can brainstorm “solutions” or “improvements” for Labour all day, all year, but the simple, inescapable fact is … as voters, our priorities are fundamentally opposed to theirs.

    We want a change of government, therefore a change in party. They want no change in party – regardless of cost to us. That’s all.

    • karol 8.1

      We want a change of government, therefore a change in party. They want no change in party – regardless of cost to us. That’s all.

      Exactly. Time for Robertson to call Cunliffe, and decide on what’s best for the country.

      • AmaKiwi 8.1.1

        “It doesn’t matter to ABC how badly Labour are doing.”

        Maybe now it does.

        I have no idea what is going on behind the scenes in the Labour caucus. I can only hope and pray they have come to their senses. The Shearer experiment needs to be abandoned ASAP.

        • felix 8.1.1.1

          It needed to be abandoned a year ago.

          Just like the Goff experiment needed to be abandoned a year before it was too late.

          Gee, if only we’d all been warning them back then…

          • Winston Smith 8.1.1.1.1

            Don’t worry about it, Labour can be Nationals junior partner and they’ll have a sniff of power 🙂

  9. bad12 9

    Desperation= The Herald giving the architect of ‘the gambling harm minimization bill’ column inches to explain His position vis a vis the complete and utter gutting of that piece of legislation by it’s coalition partner Slippery’s National Government,

    The Maori Party’s Te Ururoa Flavell needn’t have bothered, explaining the intricacies of being the ‘Lapdog’ of the National Government in such eloquent terms still leaves the Maori Party and Te Ururoa Flavell occupying the seat as ‘Lapdog’ no matter how many or how few the weasel words are that attempt to provide a justification,

    Flavell should face the facts, National went behind His back getting Tariana and Pita to accept the gutting of His harm minimization bill and Flavell had to swallow the dead rat once the changes agreed to by His leaders were made,

    The ‘harm minimization legislation is in fact a metaphor for the actual gains that the Maori Party have made for their voters and Maori in general after two terms as National’s coalition partner,

    Nothing is the consensus among Maori, while the Maori Party gained it’s ‘slush fund’ in Whanau Ora, Maori who use tobacco products paid for this with increased taxes,

    There is no Mana in the Maori Party and Flavell must now know that He is ‘Owned’ by National MP’s only too happy to laugh in His face even doing so on National TV,

    Te Ururoa should now negotiate with Hone Harawira to bring His electorate into the Mana Party as being the ‘leader’ of nothing after the 2014 election will leave Him with none whatsoever,

    Mana that is….

  10. vto 10

    Whenever Shearer is on the telly there is a bearded fulla right behind him. Who is this masked man?

  11. Te Reo Putake 11

    Brighter Future update:

    June 26, 2013
    Media Release

    NZ Post cuts 500 mail processing jobs

    New Zealand Post has told staff it intends to close its Waikato, Wellington, Dunedin and heartland mail processing centres at a cost of 500 jobs.

    The plan will result in 130 job losses in Waikato, 160 in Wellington, 75 in Dunedin and 125 in heartland and satellite sites.

    New Zealand Post has indicated there is potential for 250 new full time equivalent roles in its Auckland, Manawatu and Christchurch mail centres, but predicts fewer than 5% of people affected by the cuts will relocate.

    EPMU postal industry organiser Joe Gallagher says the announcement is devastating news for workers and their communities.

    “There are a lot of people deeply fearful for their futures today. This is not a good time to find yourself on the dole queue and in the current environment it’s going to be very hard to get another job with secure hours and good rates of pay.

    “We’re going to work with New Zealand Post to ensure everyone who loses their job receives their full redundancy entitlements and assistance finding new employment, but the reality is that won’t be enough.

    “The Government really needs to step up to the plate here by making jobs its number one priority. People need to have some decent alternatives when they find themselves out of work and at the moment the jobs just aren’t there.”

    Mr Gallagher says the union will continue to challenge cuts to New Zealand Post’s services, which also include a proposal to reduce postal delivery to three days a week and replace post offices with kiosks.

    “We recognise New Zealand Post faces considerable commercial pressures and that some degree of change is inevitable, but we’re not convinced service cuts on this scale are justified.

    “There are some serious questions about the figures these proposals are based on and we’ll be taking this up with the company and with the Government.”

    • BM 11.1

      Mr Gallagher says the union will continue to challenge cuts to New Zealand Post’s services, which also include a proposal to reduce postal delivery to three days a week and replace post offices with kiosks.

      So the union thinks the tax payer should subsidize NZ post, why?

      • vto 11.1.1

        Dunno.

        Maybe because the taxpayers subsidise dairy farmers?
        Maybe because the taxpayers subsidise the NZX?
        Maybe because the taxpayers subsidise businesses who make money by capital gain?
        maybe because the taxpayers subsidised Steven Joyce’s ex-company Mediaworks?

        Why do they do this BM?

        • BM 11.1.1.1

          No business should be subsidized by the tax payer.

          • Te Reo Putake 11.1.1.1.1

            Hobbit hater.

            • Sponge 11.1.1.1.1.1

              Not at all. There is a difference between the state forgoing a tax (Warners) and using taxes taken to subsidise a failing business (NZ Post).

              I hardly ever use post to my home any more – the effect of dropping a few days deliveries has no negative effect on me. A negative effect on the postie? No doubt at all but using that argument there should be deliveries 4 times a day and twice on the weekends (at time and a half). We don’t have lamppost lighting men or night soil men any more either and I am afraid that the postie is going the same way. The model is not viable in this day and age and keeping it as a public good (which I agree with) can only go so far.

              • Te Reo Putake

                Yes, dead right there’s a difference. Warners is a foreign company with no links to NZ other than via the liar Jackson’s wallet who got a whopping wedge of payola for no logical reason at all and NZ Post is a profitable NZ owned company that interacts with most kiwis most days and provides a service that will still be needed for generations to come in some form or other.

                • Sponge

                  Are you arguing that NZ would have been better off if the Hobbit was made elsewhere? Sorry don’t answer that as it is not the point I was trying to make.

                  Are you suggesting that NZ Post should be subsidised just because it interacts with most people people most days? Like the night soil men? Should we still have them? Should we ban milk sales in supermarkets to protect the milk deliveries?

                  • Te Reo Putake

                    It was never going to be made elsewhere. It was always going to be made here. However, what little substance there was to the vague threat was enough to get Key reaching for the cheque book.

                    NZ Post is not being subsidised. It’s profitable (didn’t I already write this?)

          • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1.1.2

            Should post be a business?

            IMO, it should be a state service as it once was that way we don’t get the dead weight loss of profit adding to our taxes.

      • Te Reo Putake 11.1.2

        The taxpayer owns NZ Post, BM.

        • BM 11.1.2.1

          But it’s losing money and dying.
          Cuts need to be made so it can survive, fighting these changes causes more harm than good.

          • North 11.1.2.1.1

            Kill the village to save it.

          • Jim Davis 11.1.2.1.2

            Where did the union say it wanted a subsidy? It’s simply said it’s challenging the figures and that the scale of cuts isn’t justified by the decline of mail volume. FFS, you people need to learn to read.

    • Tiger Mountain 11.2

      Holy crap that is bad news. Why bother with a nation state if you just sack everyone? Last person with a proper job please turn out the lights. The natz still want to keep the spooks, coppers and Army on tho.

  12. 30.9% spin away, guys.

    • Te Reo Putake 12.1

      “If the poll were translated to votes, National would not be able to govern alone.

      Either National or Labour would be able to form a government.”

      • Colonial Viper 12.1.1

        Day One through to Day 900 Tory attack: this cobbled together Labour minority government has no mandate to govern.

        • Winston Smith 12.1.1.1

          Well to be fair Labour do say that National has no mandate on well anything really…

          • Monty 12.1.1.1.1

            When Labour greens mana Maori Winston first do finally cobble together a coalition ( sit down and watch the fun) it will be an interesting side show to watch the government of the damned hold themselves to the same standard they have demanded from National the prior 12 or 15 years.

            I think the left are missing the point completely. NZ will not stand for the policies that Labour and the greens promote. These policies have very much frightened the horses. But I am received that Shearer is not going to change a thing ( how could he – that would take some doing against the factionalised Labour Party.)

            • gobsmacked 12.1.1.1.1.1

              NZ will not stand for the policies that Labour and the greens promote.

              So why does Key keep pinching them?

              • Rogue Trooper

                Good point gs (a 1000+ bored out with aYoshimura kit; takes it to 1145,or there-abouts).

            • felix 12.1.1.1.1.2

              “When Labour greens mana Maori Winston first do finally cobble together a coalition ( sit down and watch the fun)”

              Will it be anything like the fun of watching the cobbled-together National/Act/UnitedFuture/MaoriParty coalition fall apart in disgrace?

              ‘cos that’s been kinda cool.

      • Brett Dale 12.1.2

        Yeah try forming a government when you have 30.9 percentage.

        • Te Reo Putake 12.1.2.1

          Easy. LP+Greens+NZF in any combination of Government coalition or just confidence and supply. And do bear in mind that this is the Herald, not exactly the paragon of accuracy. Every percentage point Labour get above Granny’s figure is a nail in Key’s coffin.

          As I’ve said before, the only poll that even comes close to being accurate is the Roy Morgan. The function of the others is to convince Labour supporters not to vote.

          • Brett Dale 12.1.2.1.1

            Heres your problem, Russell Norman siad he wont be in any coalition with nzfirst.

            Then you have the fact that the greens always poll higher than they get. You have national and the maori party, thats all they need. a party with cant become government.

            • bad12 12.1.2.1.1.1

              Her’s your problem, you are full of s**t, give us a link to anywhere Russel Norman has said he will not enter a coalition Government that NZFirst are part of…

          • Colonial Viper 12.1.2.1.2

            TRP of course Labour will be able to form a govt with 30.9%. Which position will Labour give to the Greens? Deputy PM + Economic Development or Finance?

            • felix 12.1.2.1.2.1

              Nah, everyone will be so stoked to prop up the glorious leadership of Shearer that they won’t want anything in return but the radiated brilliance.

        • felix 12.1.2.2

          “Yeah try forming a government when you have 30.9 percentage.”

          Brett, I know this is going to be lost on you, but can you explain how National is going to form a government with less than 50% and no partners?

  13. Te Reo Putake 13

    Big day over the ditch. Two independents, Oakshott and Windsor, have just announced their retirements at the next election. Neither will support a Rudd led Government for the rest of the term if Gillard loses to him tomorrow, so, if she does get rolled, expect a vote of no confidence from the Liberals immediately and an election in a month.

    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/the-pulse-live/politics-live-june-26-2013-20130626-2ovyx.html

  14. Santi 14

    Today’s wonderful poll resuls for Labour and Mr Shearer. Yes, yes, yes.

  15. Draco T Bastard 15

    New Zealand waste policies stuck in the past

    New Zealand’s waste policies are stuck in the 19th Century as ever-rising levels of rubbish are dumped to landfill instead of a system fit for the 21st Century of more and better recycling and possibly waste incineration, a leading environmental law expert says.

    This is so true. Absolutely nothing should be going to landfills as it should all be recycled and if it can’t be recycled then it shouldn’t be on the market.

  16. Rogue Trooper 16

    QT 25.6
    Q.6. Parker- according to the ANZ analysis, the domestic-centric balance of growth is not sustainable.

    Q.8. “more (oversight) with less resources will be rquired to police migrant exploitation”-Darien Fenton.

    Q.10. Amy Adams (felt unwell just watching her) – “not a good idea for local councils to be regulating GMO’s under their plans” (Northland and Auckland councils putting in protections; Adams swooping in to over-ride). NAct have a GMO-promoting agenda (productivity gains in sight).

    moving Right along…, 1000’s of the elderly are being scammed out of millions per year; fear and embarrassment preventing declaration of foolishness. “Names” of the gullible are placed on “suckers lists”; no understanding, what did they learn through the course of their lives?

    Regional Council admits the vulnerability of Wellington to Nature, you don’t say, well, blow me away with a feather!.

    “NZ Land Transport are fueling the housing crisis” Surprise surprise!

    NZ is ranked worst out of 33 OECD countries for the earning potential of University graduates, realising a mere 18% premium above secondary school leavers.

    Cruel is the strife of brothers- Aristotle.

    Your Decision

    • Colonial Viper 16.1

      And once you take out student loan repayments out of each paypacket, I bet the number worsens for young grads even more.

    • Draco T Bastard 17.1

      Or it could just be commercial operations declining due to more and more use of electronic messaging.

      • muzza 17.1.1

        NZ Post used to be a respected operation, which has been run into the ground. with or without digital mail, its been slide created by inept/corrupt management, directors!

    • Rhinocrates 17.2

      Yep, just imagine what he would have done to the horse buggy whip and whalebone corset industries if he’d been put in charge of them!

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 17.2.1

        Well, shouldn’t we be having an inquiry into the decline of the mail business and make recommendations to arrest it?

        • Draco T Bastard 17.2.1.1

          Nope, it’s obvious that snail mail is on the way out. Industry, on the other hand, should be increasing with NZ producing more and more from our own resources.

        • burt 17.2.1.2

          Good Labour policy would protect a few hundred jobs a year using millions of tax payers dollars. Think of being able to go into an election saying unemployment is low…. Very popular thing to do and well worth bankrupting the country for the popularity of the red team…

          • Colonial Viper 17.2.1.2.1

            A few hundred jobs for a few million tax payers dollars is cheap as chips.

            • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 17.2.1.2.1.1

              It could be illegal to send more than 8 emails per day. That’d fix it.

              • Rogue Trooper

                very funny. Best not to send e-mails, and choose broadcast instead.You’d be surprised the ‘replies’ one gets. 😀

              • burt

                Perhaps we could learn from how government protected the railways from road transport competition. Make it illegal for eMail to get to the destination faster than snail mail. That little “protectionist” law kept about 15,000 employees in safe jobs in the railways… Protecting a dysfunctional pit for tax payers dollars because it was a state owned monopoly….

            • burt 17.2.1.2.1.2

              CV

              A few hundred jobs for a few million tax payers dollars is cheap as chips.

              Yes … The wagon wheel business could still be making beautifully crafted wooden wheels for horse drawn carts keeping those jobs alive and keeping the ‘Waggon wheel makers’ union happy. Imagine the fun we could have building them breaking them down for a few million each year protecting those jobs that were going to be lost 60 years ago….

          • Draco T Bastard 17.2.1.2.2

            Actually, that seems to be National Party policy.

            Last November Prime Minister John Key said the filming of the movies here would create 3000 jobs.

            The figure was used to justify the massive subsidies the film-makers received.

            • burt 17.2.1.2.2.1

              The subsidies for LOTR were apparently bigger than for the Hobbit – guess they got Dear Leader a photo opp with PJ – so it was worth it.

              • felix

                Shit, that must be confusing for you mate.

              • Draco T Bastard

                And burt comes back with the old but Labour did it too whinge. Yes burt, they’ve both been doing it and it’s something that’s been done for centuries. Capitalism isn’t the massive engine of progress that you and others seem to think – it runs on government subsidies. Without them it’d crash and burn.

                BTW, burt, this government increased the subsidies specifically for The Hobbit.

      • Tim 17.2.2

        …and how Burt just lervs a man in a whalebone corset!

  17. Sam 18

    Anyone seen the latest Stuff poll? Says it all really – and sizable response too

    Wrong leader, wrong direction
    2028 votes, 58.2%

    Wrong leader, right direction
    497 votes, 14.3%

    Right leader, right direction
    379 votes, 10.9%

    Too hindered by infighting
    579 votes, 16.6%

    Total 3483 votes

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8842669/Shearer-fends-off-poll-slump

    • bad12 18.1

      Meaningless drivel, how many of the wrong leader wrong direction voters in this poll were supporters of other party’s…

      • chris73 18.1.1

        I voted right leader, right direction because I want him to stay as leader

  18. Colonial Viper 19

    Moscow doesn’t just have a public train system- it has a public escalator system!

    How do you keep them running?

    “People,” Likhachev says. His division has a staff of 3,000. It has workers posted at every station during operating hours. It has a 20-member emergency rapid response team. It also has its own factory churning out spare parts, “so we don’t have to rely on suppliers.”

    This is not to say that all escalators work all the time, because they don’t. But let’s be clear about one thing: “We do not have escalators out of order,” Likhachev says. “We close some for repair.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/14/AR2010121406132.html

  19. Rogue Trooper 20

    …and today’s programme has been brought to you by the letter ‘A’, and the number ’11’
    (Oscar is definitely not a prince in waiting).

    “Alienation: A psychological or social evil, characterised by one or another type of harmful separation, disruption or fragmentation, which sunders things which belong together. people are alienated from the political process when they feel separated from it and powerless in relation to it; this is alienation because in a democratic society you belong in the political process, and as a citizen it ought to belong to you.
    Reflection on your beliefs, values or social order can also alienate you from them. It can undermine your attachment to them, cause you to feel separated from them, no longer identified with them, yet without furnishing anything to take their place; they are yours ‘faute de mieux’, but no longer truly yours: they are yours, but you are alienated from them.
    Marx derived the terms ‘Entdusserung’ and ‘Entfremdung’ from Hegel, who used them to portray the ‘unhappy consciousness’ of the Roman world and the Christian Middle Ages.
    Marx used essentially the same notion to portray the situation of modern individuals- especially modern wage labourers- who are deprived of a fulfilling mode of life because their life-activity as socially productive agents is devoid of any sense of communal action or satisfaction and gives them no ownership over their own lives or their products. In modern society, individuals are alienated in so far as their common essence, the actual cooperative activity which naturally unites them, is powerless in their lives, which are subject to an inhuman power- created by them, but separating and dominating them instead of being subject to their united will.
    This is the power of the ‘market’, which is ‘free’ only in the sense that it is beyond the control of it’s human creators, enslaving them by separating them from one another, from their activity, and from it’s products.
    The verbs ‘entaussern’ and ‘entfremden’ are reflexive, and in both Hegel and Marx alienation is always fundamentally ‘self’-alienation.Fundamentally, to be alienated is to be separated from one’s own essence or nature; it is to be forced to lead a life in which that nature has no opportunity to be fulfilled or actualized.
    Your life objectively actualizes your nature, especially (for both Marx and Hegel) your life with others as a social being on the basis of a determinate course of historical development.
    Their view that alienation, so conceived, can nevertheless have historical consequences, and even be a lever for social change, clearly invokes some sort of realism about the human good: it makes a difference, psychologically and socially, whether people actualize their nature, and when they do not, this fact explains waht they think, feel and do, and it can play a decisive role in historical change.

    Althusser to follow.

    “Gather round ma’s knee
    To read this weeks letter
    I wonder what will be
    I hope the news is better

    The men die here like flies ma”

    Rachel’s Coming Home

  20. Rogue Trooper 21

    Hollywood, and Sky, watch slingshot closely
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10893125
    ha, ha, mud, (or a stone) in your eye.

  21. Morrissey 22

    More laughing and sneering at dissidents
    Inanity rules, as usual, on The Panel

    Radio NZ National, Wednesday 26 June 2013
    Jim Mora, Dita De Boni, Chris Wikaira

    JIM MORA: All right, it’s Susan Baldacci with what the woooooorld’s talking about! What have you got for us today?

    SUSAN BALDACCI: Someone who’s name is on the lips of virtually EVERYBODY is Edward Snowden.

    DITA DE BONI: Oh yes? He he he he he!

    MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

    SUSAN BALDACCI: Yeeeeeessss, well this guy is the new JETSET TRAVELLER!

    MORA: Hur hur hur hur hur!

    SUSAN BALDACCI: Well, people have been asking how the heck he DOES it!

    DITA DE BONI: Yes! I’ve been asking that!

    MORA: He’s like a ghost!

    DITA DE BONI: Apparently he didn’t even need a passport to get into Russia!

    SUSAN BALDACCI: No, well that’s just it, you see. You only need a passport if the country you are entering DEMANDS one. That’s how so many refugees manage to get into countries after they have destroyed their documents.

    DITA DE BONI: What is the advantage for Ecuador in taking this guy?

    MORA: Arrrgghh, they’re just thumbing their nose at the world.

    SUSAN BALDACCI: Yeah. Otherwise why would they take Julian Assange?

    DITA DE BONI: Exactly.

    MORA: They’re staking out a position in South America.

    DITA DE BONI: Exactly!

    MORA: Okay, moving on. You’ve got something about Stephen Fry?

    SUSAN BALDACCI: Yes, he has written about how extremely depressed he gets sometimes.

    MORA: He always seems, to me, to live a gilded life. He’s erudite, he’s witty, he’s clever, he’s just so admired.

    DITA DE BONI: [slowly, to indicate great seriousness] I think he struggles with being gay.

    SUSAN BALDACCI: I think he’s a tortured soul.

    DITA DE BONI: When he came out, it wasn’t so cool you know? It wasn’t so hip, you know?

    ….[Awkward silence]….

    MORA: Mmmmmkayyy… Okay, Susan Baldacci, what else have you got?

    SUSAN BALDACCI: Well, there’s a new survey has found the best places for a tertiary education. They are, number one: CANADA.

    MORA: Canada! Hmmmmm.

    SUSAN BALDACCI: Number two is ISRAEL.

    MORA: Israel, yes.

    SUSAN BALDACCI: Japan was third.

    MORA: Japan was third?

    SUSAN BALDACCI: [clearly irritated] Y-y-y-y-yes. The United States was fourth. And fifth was… NEW ZEALAND! Sixth was South Korea, seventh the U.K., eighth was Australia, and Ireland was next.

    ….[Stunned silence for several seconds]…..

    DITA DE BONI: I am really shocked by that. New Zealand at number FIVE?!!??!?!?

    MORA: The Australians are annoyed, aren’t they….

    et cetera, et cetera, ad absurdum, ad nauseam….

    • Rogue Trooper 22.1

      now, that is very funny Morrissey, but wait, a song hearkens…
      Oh my word, what does it mean
      won’t you please read my signs, be a Gypsy.
      Love To All On The Left.

    • logie97 22.2

      Morrissey. We are so fortunate that we do not have to listen to Newstalkzb, Radio Live, the National Programme from dawn to dusk. We have you. (transcripts and all). Keep up the good work, especially the ever growing listings of liars and deceivers. However, I hope you were able to appreciate that there was fog, drizzle, and occasional sunshine over Auckland today.

      • Te Reo Putake 22.2.1

        I hate to have to keep repeating this, but Moz’s efforts are not transcripts. They are his half remembered impressions of what was said. Other than the names, most of what he claims above bears little resemblance to what was actually said, or the tone in which it was said.

        VOR: clearly irritated!

        • Morrissey 22.2.1.1

          I hate to have to keep repeating this, but Moz’s efforts are not transcripts.

          I did not haul out the old BASF tape and insert it into the tape-recorder, no. And no, that was not a sexual metaphor.

          They are his half remembered impressions of what was said.

          Anyone who listened to that horrible fifteen minutes of inanity yesterday knows that what I wrote is way, way more than “half remembered.”

          Other than the names, most of what he claims above bears little resemblance to what was actually said, or the tone in which it was said.

          I challenge anyone to dispute seriously that the characters in my little horror script are not simulacra of the principals involved in yesterday’s Panel pre-show segment. Any listener who persevered with listening to them will attest that Dita De Boni really was that shallow, that Susan Baldacci really was that disgusting, and that Jim Mora really was, as always, that special mix of avuncular, cowardly, frivolous, insincere and superficial.

      • Morrissey 22.2.2

        Keep up the good work, especially the ever growing listings of liars and deceivers.

        Sadly, Liars of Our Time is a series which seems to have no prospect of ending any time soon. Watch out also for: Dum Quote of the Week, Hall of Hogwash, Humbug Corner, Luvvies on the Loose, The Ouch! File, The Subservience Index, Weasel Watch, Wimp Walloping and Yeah Right.

        However, I hope you were able to appreciate that there was fog, drizzle, and occasional sunshine over Auckland today.

        That transcript—or, as our friend Te Reo Putake reminds us, that “impression”—was done quickly, by hand, then typed up in a fever. That was the only time I listened to the radio all afternoon. Similarly, I don’t watch much TV, although it might seem like it sometimes.

  22. logie97 23

    The state’s right to increase its powers of surveillance and Key’s old chestnut assurance that “if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear”. In an odd way, the Texas legislature has just sent a warning to us all. What is legal today, might not be should a radical change of government take place in the future. A government that could trawl through the googol bytes of data on files and establish that an individual or group were doing things that are suddenly subversive or anti-state in the new administration’s views.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/26/wendy-davis-abortion-filibuster-chaos

  23. Pete 24

    Looks like Rudd has taken the Labor leadership. Should probably have been sooner rather than later. Any lessons, NZ Labour Party, huh?

  24. Arfamo 25

    BAIN CASE

    3rd Degree tonight must surely settle the question. Robin did it.

    The evidence was there from day one and nobody – not the lawyers, not the police, not Karam, not the firearms experts, not anyone who looked at the photos ever noticed it. By the time Robin’s body reached the pathologist the evidence was probably gone, brushed off, but those magazine loading marks on his thumb and forefinger in the crime scene photos are unmistakable.

    Pay David the compensation.

    • Te Reo Putake 25.1

      Yeah, nah. It’s interesting, but is it provable evidence? We don’t make legal decisions based on TV shows, thankfully. Bear in mind that the show was based around the premise that it proves Robin Bain did it. I’d wait for the responses from the coppers and prosecution before making a judgement. And, if it was David, he could conceivably pressed the magazine to his dead Dad’s fingers about the same time he typed the computer message.

      Having said all that, it does beggar belief that his body wasn’t checked more thoroughly.

      • Arfamo 25.1.1

        Yep, true, it’s not conclusive, but it’s the piece of the puzzle I was looking for. I always thought David did it. It’s close enough to the smoking gun for me. It virtually is the smoking gun. It’s never even been raised before. As you say, the next few days and comments from police etc will be interesting.

      • NZ Femme 25.1.2

        David could have conceivably done that, but if he had, wouldn’t he have attempted to draw attention to the marks in the 2 pics? They were both widely used in the trials. Will be an interesting few weeks ahead.

        • Arfamo 25.1.2.1

          That’s along the lines I’m thinking. If he was clever enough to go to that degree of detail to frame his dad, surely he’d have been clever enough to have found a way to nudge his defence team into noticing the marks. They’d be so critically important to the defence case.

          • Te Reo Putake 25.1.2.1.1

            Another thought: how come David didn’t spot the marks? He must have stared at those photos for years and he would have seen the same marks on his own hand every time he used the gun.

            • Arfamo 25.1.2.1.1.1

              That’s the thing, TRP. It suggests he’s innocent. The residue stripes happen to anyone loading a magazine after the gun’s been fired, and that one misfires a lot and needed reloading even at the murder scene, but it’s just powder and it rubs off almost straight away just doing anything – people may not even pay it any attention. He just may have never thought of it. If he’d framed his dad he’d have thought of it.

            • NZ Femme 25.1.2.1.1.2

              According to the doco, the photos weren’t blown up. The Waikato man who discovered the marks noticed them after the pictures were enlarged considerably.

              • Arfamo

                Yeah. The guy is a businessman and took an interest before the last trial. He was looking at the pics enlarged on his computer screen I think he said. And he used to shoot as a lad on a farm. That’s how he made the connection. The compensation case just got very interesting again.

  25. North 26

    Be interesting to hear James (was it) McNeish’s response. He was pretty public and on occasion near shrewish in his condemnation of David Bain.

    NZ Femme above – yeah, David Bain could have done that number. I mean no one can prove he didn’t but it’s as unlikely as the nonsense someone in the Crown or the police were mouthing off – he or his lawyer or somebody deliberately ballsed things up for the joy of being convicted a murderer, then winning a retrial or an appeal or something ???

    Sounds very much Simon Bridges ex-Crown prosecutor to me, viz. bloody ridiculous.

    • NZ Femme 26.1

      Right. Like you and Arfamo, it makes no sense at all to me either.

      “I’m going to spend the next 13 years rotting in jail, sitting on evidence I handily whipped up earlier that could get me off, entirely for shits and giggles.”

      Yeah, Nah.

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