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Open mike 26/07/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 26th, 2015 - 143 comments
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143 comments on “Open mike 26/07/2015 ”

  1. Morrissey 1

    Does Jenny-May Coffin ever check what she is given to read out?
    Sports journalism in New Zealand is a Mark Richardson-calibre joke

    Television One News, Saturday 25 July 2015

    Too many sports “journalists” know little or nothing about sports. Sadly, the worst of them seem to be chosen, apparently on purpose, to “work” in the electronic media. Anyone who has managed to endure a few minutes of Radio Sport or the thankfully now defunct LiveSport will be only too aware that the people who spend all day flapping their gums about sports are not drawn from the top, or even the lower middle, end of the talent pool. Dull, indolent, prejudiced and ill-informed sports commentators are a perennial problem in the United States: one of the most infamous is Tom Heinsohn who, during a live TV broadcast of a 1985 NBA finals game, woofed: “What the Lakers need is more white bodies out there.” It’s also a problem in Great Britain—New Zealanders will remember the deeply unpleasant and dishonest Sunday Times rugby curmudgeon Stephen Jones. Australia’s rugby commentators (league and union) are embarrassingly bad, whether it’s Andrew Slack or Nick Farr-Jones uttering inane platitudes or Phil Gould acting as a crude shill for the poker machine lobby during live game calls.


    I know the virus is pretty bad in Canada, France, and in Japan as well.

    You might say that useless and/or offensive sportscasters are a universal problem. But even so, it gives me no pleasure to say that New Zealand seems particularly afflicted by really, really bad ones. Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, I present for your inspection Murray Deaker, Martin Devlin, Doug Golightly, Andrew Saveloy, Jim Kayes, Tony Veitch, Mark Watson, Nigel Yalden, Wiwwy Wose and, perhaps worst of the lot, that gruesome twosome, those horribly unfunny try-hards Mulligan and Richardson. That’s a representative, rather than a complete, sample.

    Viewers of tonight’s sports bulletin on One News were subjected to one of the worst of this grim fraternity delivering one of the worst gaffes imaginable. Substandard performances by Television One auto-cue reader Jenny-May Coffin have drawn comment from many quarters, including this forum, in the past…..

    Open mike 20/06/2015

    Open mike 27/04/2013

    Whose Values?

    However, this evening she managed to excel—if that’s the right word for something so abject—herself, as she burbled: “Real Madrid beat Manchester City last night in front of 99,000 spectators, a record football crowd for the Melbourne Cricket Ground.”

    Now, if Jenny-May Coffin were a serious journalist, or a reasonably knowledgeable sports authority, or even mildly interested in the material she was given to read out, then she would have known that that statement was ridiculous.

    If she had bothered to check, she would have discovered that the record football crowd for the MCG was 121,696 for the Victorian Football League grand final between Carlton and Collingwood. The year after that (1971) the crowd for the St Kilda vs Hawthorn game was 118,192—a hell of a lot more than were at last night’s association football game. In fact, the Real-Man. City attendance was nowhere near the top TWENTY football crowds for the MCG, as Jenny-May Coffin would have known if she possessed even a rudimentary level of professionalism….


    • Yep I think Jenny-May was correct – FOOTball FOOT ball – leave her alone you big bully.

      • Morrissey 1.1.1

        No she was not correct. She read out a glaringly wrong press release from some PR flack. Obviously such basic journalistic tenets as research or checking are unknown to her.

    • Real Madrid Club de Fútbol and Manchester City Football Club play football. My beloved St Kilda Football Club play a radically different code, only played professionally in a single country, and hardly known outside Australia.

      Context is everything and Coffin was reporting on two well known football clubs, so it’s obvious that the record referred to was a football statistic, not an AFL one. The turnout of 99000 matches the current AFL grand final record. It was a sellout as the MCG has a smaller capacity these days.

      We’ve had this discussion before, Moz, and the result is the same; World 1, Moz 0.

      • Morrissey 1.2.1

        My beloved St Kilda Football Club play a radically different code

        A code of what, exactly?

        only played professionally in a single country, and hardly known outside Australia.

        As a St Kilda F.C. fan, you will be well aware that your beloved Saints played in front of 118,192 fans as they lost a classic Grand Final to the Hawks in 1971. By the way, have a look at the name of the bloke who scored four goals for St. Kilda that day.

        • te reo putake

          Australian Rules Football, which by it’s very name differentiated itself from the worldwide code. And I don’t have look up your namesake Barry, he’s still a legend! ’66 and all that!

          A more interesting question might be which sport was codified first. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

          • Morrissey

            Yes I know it was our Victorian chums who got there first! Who actually wrote up a set of rules first is interesting, but doesn’t especially please me one way or the other.

            More concerning are some of the recent trends of Australian football, especially the levels of on-field violence and the unfortunate preponderance of handballing. When Geelong started making handball a key part of its games in the 1960s, other teams quickly followed, and disgusted spectators would yell, “Kick the bloody thing!”

            I also think that the scoring methods in Australian football are unsatisfactory—consider the ho-hum attitude of an MCG crowd after a point, or even a goal at times is scored in an AFL game, and compare it with the genuine excitement that followed all five goals in the Real-Manchester City game on Friday night. One sport’s scoring method is diffuse, over-complicated and perceptibly too easy, whereas the other’s is clear and unambiguous and much harder to do.

            And of course, there’s the size of the teams and the immense size and shape of the playing surface…

  2. Grey Area 2

    Bit harsh on Jenny-May I feel. There is only one “foot”ball after all. The others such as rugby, league, rules etc involve the major use of hands and are pretenders only. When I hear the term football there is omly one sport that comes to mind to me and it’s played with a round ball.

    • Morrissey 2.1

      In Australia, football means Australian Rules football or rugby. In New Zealand it means rugby football.

      • Grey Area 2.1.1

        To some people yes. To others no. Times are a changing. I think most kiwis would say “are you watching the rugby test tonight” not “are you watching the football test”.

        • Morrissey

          Certainly that is not the case in Auckland. And I doubt it’s the case in other parts of the country.

  3. The Chairman 3

    Bring Paul Home – Support for NZ Digger hit by Freight Train

  4. philj 4

    The MSM is shoddy biased rubbish. I don’t trust it. Saddened that so many people take it seriously.

  5. CnrJoe 5

    So. This M.Key and C. Lazar rahui….this ban on bringing the kids into ‘this’..
    Prince of Parnell anyone?
    J.Keys official photographer shoots M.Keys holiday vid – featuring Dad – and what? Don’t bring the kids into it!!!They’re innocent!
    imo they kids are part of the hashtagPlanetKey system.

    • Tricledrown 5.1

      CR Joe who’s side are you on you and anyone else who criticised the family of any politician is going down an all-time loosers path.
      Attack the policies and failures not their families .

      • Skinny 5.1.1

        +1 The kids are alright from what I’ve seen.

      • maui 5.1.2

        Max is clearly part of the PM’s propaganda team. Why else would the PM blatantly appear in Max’s holiday video, it shows the PM clearly wanted to be part of the message his son was putting out. If the kids aren’t to be involved in politics then all it would of taken is Key to say, you can make a video but you’re not showing me in it.

    • Anne 5.2

      Of course they are, so as far as I am concerned they are fair game.

      They are exhibitionists who like the limelight just like their exhibitionist father. If you court publicity then when you are criticised for it, you can’t cry foul because of who you are. They are adults now so are responsible for their own conduct.

      • Anne 5.2.1

        Damm.. I left out CnrJoe’s quote:

        imo they kids are part of the hashtagPlanetKey system.

      • mary_a 5.2.2

        @ Anne (5.2) Yes. Both Key offspring are hardly children. They are young adults, responsible for their own decisions and behaviour, putting themselves out there in the public domain.

        Interesting point is that Key’s wife Bronagh seems to keep herself private, a low profile, away from the public glare. Good for her. Proves I guess there is at least one Key family member, who isn’t self absorbed, obsessed with hogging the limelight!

      • Grey Area 5.2.3


  6. Facetious 6

    Go the mighty All Blacks.

    • Morrissey 6.1

      It’s a bit harder for them when they play South Africa—they can’t get Craig Joubert to help out….

  7. Penny Bright 7

    26 July 2015

    Media Alert! PROTEST!

    PM John Key (Bank of America shareholder) looking after US or the U$?


    Today, Sunday 26 July 2015, NZ Prime Minister John Key, gives his ‘KEY’note speech to the National Party’s 79th Conference at the Auckland Sky City Casino, at noon.

    A range of New Zealanders and those who believe that signing the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA), will NOT work in the best interests of New Zealand, as a sovereign State, the majority of the NZ people, or NZ businesses, will be protesting outside, from 11am till 1pm.


    WHEN: Today – Sunday 26 July 2015
    TIME: 11am – 1pm
    WHERE: Outside Sky City Auckland Convention Centre

    A number of us are deeply concerned with the FACT that NZ Prime Minister John Key, is a shareholder in the Bank of America.

    So – in whose ‘national interest’ is NZ Prime Minister working?

    For US (New Zealanders) or the U$?

    Follow the dollar….?

    The evidence of John Key’s Bank of America shareholding is available on the NZ Parliamentary website:

    (These Bank of America shares are NOT in a ‘blind trust’!)

    Whose ‘national interest’ is PM John Key serving?

    Is John Key working for US or the U$?


    “Register of Pecuniary and Other Specified Interests of Members of Parliament:
    Summary of annual returns as at 31 January 2015

    (Page 29)

    Rt Hon John Key (National, Helensville)

    2 Other companies and business entities

    Little Nell – property investment (Aspen, Colorado)

    Bank of America – banking ..”


    Penny Bright

    • half crown 7.1

      Hey Jenny this is the shit that is going down over this TPPA agreement. This is one of the reasons why America supported by their fucking lap dog Spiv Key are all for it. They are prepared to turn a blind eye to slavery just to get at China.

      “But because the Senate is the Senate, it was unable to swap out the original language for the modification. (The chamber needed unanimous consent to make the legislative move, and an unknown senator or senators objected.) So the trade promotion authority bill that passed Friday includes the strong anti-slavery language, which the House will now work to take out to ensure that Malaysia (and, potentially, other countries in the future) can be part of the deal.
      Observers are left with a deeper question: Why, in the year 2015, is the White House teaming up with Republican leaders essentially to defend the practice of slavery?
      Understanding this is key to understanding why President Barack Obama has been pushing so aggressively for a trade deal that so many of his allies insist will harm American workers. It’s about global power, geopolitics and pushing back against the rise of China. And that starts with Malaysia.
      How bad is Malaysia?
      Unfortunately for Obama, Malaysia is a hub of human trafficking comparable, according to the State Department, to North Korea and Saudi Arabia. It falls in Tier 3, the lowest ranking a country can have in the State Department’s annual human trafficking report, which gauges a country’s actions against modern-day slavery.

      Why is Malaysia so important?
      A century ago, U.S. foreign policy focused on the brand-new country of Panama. Wars were started, coups were plotted, deals were struck, all toward the end of controlling access to its just-completed canal. Today the Panama Canal is still a global trade “chokepoint” that shipping must pass through. Another chokepoint, equally if not more important, is the Strait of Malacca, which lies between the Indonesian island of Sumatra and the Malay Peninsula.
      Unlike Senate Democrats and labor leaders, many experts on U.S.-China relations consider the Trans-Pacific Partnership essential. They argue that the deal, which the Obama administration is forging with 11 other Pacific nations, will show that Washington is not going to allow an expansionist Beijing to dominate the region with tactics ranging from bullying smaller nations to building island fortresses in disputed waters. A March 2015 report from the Council on Foreign Relations lists granting Obama trade promotion authority — which will grease the skids for the TPP to pass Congress — as the top way in which the legislators can ensure a smart U.S. response to China’s rise.”


  8. Skinny 8

    Refreshing to see Bob Reid fronting for workers on Q & A this morning and countering ‘everything is hunky dory’ put up by the Nat cyborg. I would love to see Reid takeover the leadership of the CTU when Helen Kelly retires in October. Bob has the rare ability to cut through the crap being spun by the Government’s PR snake oil merchant’s, well done cobbah.

    • Nice sentiments, Skinny. Robert’s a lovely guy, and a great union man.

    • Anne 8.2

      Michelle Boag was at her sour puss, bullying worst this morning. She claimed the unions are to blame for low paid workers and the unemployed. Beat that.

      I gather there’s a Reid Research poll coming out on TV3 tonight. Don’t want to flag it the wrong way, but I have to wonder if she has foreknowledge of the result and isn’t too happy about it. 🙂

      • David H 8.2.1

        When I heard Boag say that, it was yet another keyboard stuffed. Why do they always say something outrageous when you have a mouthful of hot coffee?

        • Skinny

          Boag’s argument was shear stupidity and reiterated what Bob was saying that the elite are too far removed from the low wage economy most workers are living in New Zealand.

          I once took exception listening to Boag on Willie & JT’s political show around the time of the tragic Pike River deaths. Anyway she made some ridiculous comment about health & safely in her business, I called in under my than George handle and gave her a crack, “Michelle what would you know about Health & Safety in the workplace, the only risk you would face is choking while eating tapas in a Ponsonby cafe.” McCarten and the boys laughed… Boag was momentarily stuck for words. She finally mustered a sarcastic “why thanks how kind of you” I replied
          “You welcome”. 🙂

    • Morrissey 9.1

      Why are we bashing Serco, Paul? Surely the poor fellows are doing their best?

    • Naki man 9.2

      “Another Serco bashing.
      What has New Zealand become?”

      Rapists, women murders and kiddie fiddlers have always been regularly bashed in prisons. This is nothing new.

      • Galeandra 9.2.1

        Read the link, you elemental dick. The man was left seriously brain damaged. If people are to be locked up as punishment, then the state has the obligation to protect them from random violence no matter what their crime.

      • Paul 9.2.2

        And what is your view of privatised prisons, naki man?

      • Molly 9.2.3

        If you were trying to determine a way to brutalise a human being further, then this is the approach you would take to do it.

        These people end up back in our society.

        Are you so short-sighted your desire for brutal illegal treatment outweighs the benefits of treating prisoners humanely?

      • Morrissey 9.2.4

        Surely even in Taranaki you are regarded as a very stupid person.

      • sabine 9.2.5

        and then they get released to a neighbourhood near your.

        nothing new here either.

        feel safer yet?

      • whateva next? 9.2.6

        what about people with mental health issues, drug habits that can’t get treatment elsewhere? Shame finance company swindlers /tax avoiders cant get a taste of real corrections?

  9. Took my kid to open day at local state high school yesterday. Teacher in the food tech area talked nostalgically about how they used to have community cooking classes as part of the nightschool programme. Long gone now. Cheers national.

  10. ankerawshark 11

    Anyone got the link to Bob Reid on Q and A?

    I know I ambeing lazy here and could find it myself, but if its handy would be good to have it on open mike

    • Paul 11.1

      Here it is.
      Notice how Simon Dallow tries to interjects with him by comparison with his treatment of Boag.

      • Paul 11.1.1

        And look at Bernard Hickey’s expression as Boag gibbers on about young people wanting to buy 3 bedroom houses in Grey Lynn.
        He shakes his disbelief as the nonsense she spouts.
        Again, why does this fool Boag get air time?

        And why is Dallow such a shill for the National Party?

        • Rosemary McDonald

          thanks for that…now, I have this…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7pWhXv4ZVE…stuck in my head.

        • Craig H

          Wow, he (Bernard Hickey) couldn’t have said more with words than his expression and body language.

        • ankerawshark

          Thanks for the link Paul. Yes Michelle Boag wheeling out the old young people wanting to buy a three bedroom home in Grey Lynn. Why don’t they just have an apartment…………………………….

          Great now I get it! The housing crisis in Auckland is because young people want to buy a three bedroom house in Grey Lynn! Its the young people’s fault!

          Surprised she didn’t bring out her other red herring “I don’t own a house”………..

          The depth of the analysis. Please keep Boag on. She is doing wonder’s for………….Labour and the Left.

  11. b waghorn 12

    Private companies being trusted to consent buildings !!
    What could possible go wrong with that ??

    • dv 12.1

      ‘That was why councils had been “so pedantic and conservative” about processing building consents, so they were not exposing themselves to liability.

      ‘There would also need to be some sort of guarantee scheme so consumers were protected and were not out of pocket.

      AND open to competition!!

      What is to stop the private co going bankrupt like the dodgy building comps.

      I think the whole exercise is beyond the ability of nick smith and the Nats

    • CC 12.2

      Remember the part that private building inspection companies played in the leaky buildings saga and the liabilities that were passed on when they folded? Seems the National Government have very short memories, are slow learners or are so wedded to ideology that they can’t see the wood for the trees. Not to worry, tax and rate payers have big pockets and just love to help out dodgy industries.

    • Draco T Bastard 12.3

      Wonder how he’s thinking of paying for this? My guess is that it will come out of local government coffers one way or another forcing the local councils to put up rates to cover the extra expenses of having more people doing the job.

  12. Morrissey 13

    Great Thinkers of Our Time: Trump and Eastwood

    “Nobody gets as many standing ovations…. This weekend I’ll be with Clint Eastwood in California. Tremendous group of people, I’ll be in Arizona this weekend, I’ll be all over the place…”

    This is exciting! It’s like Nietsche and Kierkegaard coming together. Or Chomsky and Russell. Or Tom Paine and Immanuel Kant. Or Jamie Whyte and Richard “I’ve Been Thinking” Prebble.

    Yes, at long last, Donald Trump and Clint Eastwood are going to be in California together!….

    Donald Trump: ‘I Will Win The Latino Vote’ (Full Interview) | NBC News

    • Paul 13.1

      Democracy died in the USA a while ago.
      It’s on its last legs here.
      Watch Oliver Stone’s Untold History of America.

  13. Tricledrown 14

    Trump will get the dead cat bounce

  14. Olwyn 15

    An interesting article posted on Yanis Varoufakis’s website:
    It rather explains why so many political utterances come across as a commitment to the dictates of the market wrapped in a PR pitch to constituents.

  15. Morrissey 16

    German television host to former Waffen S.S. executioner:
    “You’ve got nothing to be ashamed of…”

    [Congrats. You win the Instant Godwin of the Day award. If you want to post links, don’t waste readers’ time with misleading descriptions. TRP]

  16. whateva next? 17

    According to Boag on Q&A this morning, it is all Robert Reid’s fault that there are a few poor people struggling, because he doesn’t look after them well enough!!!!!
    And yet they invite her back on week after bloody week, setting the narrative that intelligent people then have to waste time countering/adjusting and pointing out facts, so no advancement in debate.
    I have given up on the Nation, will have to check who is on Q&A before subjecting myself again.

    • Morrissey 17.1

      Michelle Boag’s job is identical to Matthew Hooton’s—to disrupt and if possible destroy any chance of engaging in serious debate. Her rants on Jim Mora’s light chat vehicle are infamous, made even worse by the fact she is accompanied every time by her new best friend Dr Brian Edwards.

      • whateva next? 17.1.1

        Absolutely, how does she get air time. “FMR” party president what does that stand for? F****** Much Richer” ???
        Watching her represent “baby boomers” the other week, is another device to divide generations, young people actually do believe my generation has ruined the chance of a good life for their generation. I have worked for 35 years for the health service, no savings, but a clear conscience and finally a house that is mine.
        Like Key I would have liked for my offspring and the next generation to have the same if not a little better….like his do.Is that going to happen thanks purley to his government, NO. Assets sold, conflated house prices, low wage economy, education for the rich only (or face debts for most of life, unless bailed out by rich parents) etc.
        I am so sick of people like Boag dictating the narrative, whilst decent intelligent people like Robert Reid have to sit there and listen (and stomach), what a crazy environment for the 4th estate to have to work in.

    • Paul 17.2

      And why do they invite her back?
      Because the people who own and run Q and A are part of the same elite as her.
      She is a useful puppet for hte powerful interests who own and run New Zealand.

      • whateva next? 17.2.1

        You are right, I always get tempted by the promise of “NZ’s leading politics programme” not again though after this morning.

        • Paul

          I actually only linked to it because of Robert Reid.
          Normally wouldn’t touch this propaganda source with a barge pole.

      • greywarshark 17.2.2

        Reminds me of a parallel person in UK – Thatcher. Reading about dead but not forgotten, John Mortimer’s comments on Thatcher.
        In 1986, his adaptation of his own novel Paradise Postponed was televised. This depicts what he saw as Britain’s descent into viciousness in the era of Thatcherism.

        Boag fills the same role in NZ for those who desire power and wealth and disdain the hoi polloi.

        • Paul

          Boag is an utterly repulsive person.
          A creation of the ‘me’ world that look over from the ‘we’ society.

        • b waghorn

          She’s that openly selfish she almost appears to be doing a satire of a disgusting human some days.

          • Blue Horseshoe

            The old dear is utterly compromised and twisted up, it beggars speculation as to what could be held over her

            Surely no elderly woman performs as she does willingly if mentally sound and not being coerced

            • b waghorn

              More likely she is becoming less relevant and is grandstanding to try and hold onto what little influence she has left.

    • Clemgeopin 17.3

      Today Boag came across as more idiotic than Tau Henare.

      • Treetop 17.3.1

        Boag needs to see the replay of herself trying to defend the cost of housing in Auckland and how hard it is for working people to afford the basics. The ex Bank of Reserve economist was a breath of fresh air.

  17. Coffee Connoisseur 18

    I believe this article is what many on the left have been waiting for,


    H Joon Chang is someone whose ideas I have been listening to since I bought his book 23 things they don’t tell you about Capitalism. It is a great read and destroys many key Capitalist myths.
    This article lays thing bare also. He is definitely the Economist to follow.

    • Olwyn 18.1

      A lovely analogy here, even though he gets the wording a bit wrong, and should have said “the body” in the last line, where he says “business”: When the only ones capable of making exchanges are a small percentage of the population, the entire economy suffers because the many are excluded for the benefit of the few, but this benefit too is an illusion. There is no real benefit. Pretending otherwise is like thinking that cutting off the blood in your body to everything except the brain is good for business. It’s not. It’s good for gangrene.

    • Colonial Viper 18.2

      Chang is an outstanding economist: speaking to the Royal Society

      “Let one hundred flowers bloom”

    • b waghorn 18.3

      Great article cheers I sent it on to a good mate who still trys to tell me that keys tax cuts to the rich was a good idea .

    • Draco T Bastard 18.4

      Every extra dollar going into the pockets of low-wage workers, standard economic multiplier models tell us, adds about $1.21 to the national economy. Every extra dollar going into the pockets of a high-income American, by contrast, only adds about 39 cents to the GDP. These pennies add up considerably on $26.7 billion in earnings. If the $26.7 billion Wall Streeters pulled in on bonuses in 2013 had gone to minimum wage workers instead, our GDP would have grown by about $32.3 billion, over triple the $10.4 billion boost expected from the Wall Street bonuses.

      As I say: We cannot afford the rich.

    • Draco T Bastard 18.5

      On the same topic:

      That debt, which is threatening to destroy the euro, is at the heart of the machinery behind this elaborate matrix, and the wedge pushing the very rich and the poor apart.

      That valuable, exponential debt, and the greed associated with its accumulation, was behind the growth of derivatives and sub- prime mortgages that precipitated the near-collapse of the global economy in 2008. Thanks in part to weak oversight and regulation, which was acknowledged by a regretful former United States president Bill Clinton in an April 2010 interview.

      And now that debt is impacting on the sovereignty of those troubled European nations through expectations of such organisations as the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank for sweeping austerity measures attached to bail-outs.

      If you think that such murky dealings are a world away from our own shores, consider what makes up the vast majority of New Zealand’s money supply.

      If we want prosperity for our country then we need to:

      1. Get of the rich because we simply cannot afford them
      2. Change our monetary system so that only the government creates money
      3. Stop foreign ownership of land, businesses and housing so that we don’t become serfs to foreign owners

    • Draco T Bastard 18.6

      And we can’t go past:
      The End of Capitalism

      As a result, large parts of the business class have become neo-luddites. Faced with the possibility of creating gene-sequencing labs, they instead start coffee shops, nail bars and contract cleaning firms: the banking system, the planning system and late neoliberal culture reward above all the creator of low-value, long-hours jobs.

  18. Paul 19

    Boag blames unions for the low rates of pay in supermarkets and DIY stores.
    Not the employers.

    Simon Dallow is a tool for the government and part of the bubble that does not realise how most people live. A disgraceful excuse for a journalist.


    • maui 19.1

      The Boag Tyrantosaurus rex started looking for limbs to rip off the other panellists at the end there. Bernard I think was very shortly going to just start banging his head repeatedly on the desk with a continuous low groaning sound.

    • whateva next? 19.2

      Actually, you are right, he could have made a difference to what was an appalling show this morning, and he didn’t do anything but grin.

  19. ianmac 20

    Key has announced plans to reward immigrants with extra points if their job offers are for outside Auckland. Thought that was another Labour idea?

    • Paul 20.1

      Focus groups and David Farrar’s polling are very busy.

    • sabine 20.2

      will they have to stay there, or do they get to quit right away and move to akl once their permit has been approved and bumbfuckistan dairy country aint gonna do it anymore for them?

  20. millsy 21

    Naki man wouldnt last 5 minutes in “the other state housing”.

    The rec yard at Mt Eden is a world apart from his back yard summer BBQ.

  21. Draco T Bastard 22

    No, It’s Not Your Opinion. You’re Just Wrong

    There’s nothing wrong with an opinion on those things. The problem comes from people whose opinions are actually misconceptions. If you think vaccines cause autism you are expressing something factually wrong, not an opinion. The fact that you may still believe that vaccines cause autism does not move your misconception into the realm of valid opinion. Nor does the fact that many other share this opinion give it any more validity.

    A great article on the difference between opinions and misconceptions.

  22. Clemgeopin 23

    Dumbing down of our education?

    A rural Waikato secondary school has pass rates in the mid to high 90s for each level of NCEA.

    “Hands-on” options help students not planning on university study, says Hauraki Plains College principal Ngaire Harris.

    She says that’s partly due to subjects that range from beekeeping to classical studies.

    Hauraki Plains College has about 700 students.

    In 2014 it had a
    95 per cent pass rate for NCEA level 3
    99 per cent at level 2.
    Strangely, the level 1 pass rate is 102 per cent of students on the roll.
    It is all well good and useful to graduate in bee keeping, chain saw skills etc, but
    I am wondering how many or what % of their ‘highly successful’ students actually study academic studies such as Science, physics, Botany, Chemistry, Zoology, Economics, Accounting, Statistics, Architecture, Calculus etc , go to university and graduate as doctors, engineers, scientists etc. Strangely, the article praising this school did not mention that.

    I suppose the academic jobs will be taken up by students from the Charter schools.

    Or by skilled and qualified immigrants.

    I know, perhaps from the students of the part publicly funded private schools which cater to the kids of the privileged and the wealthy.

    The damage done to the proper education and prosperity of the common people is a real worry.

    • Clemgeopin 23.1

      My last edited sentence that did not show was :

      I think that education is being dumbed down. Parents and the country are being short changed by students and the schools taking the easy course routes.

      The damage done to the proper education and prosperity of the common people is a real worry in this artificially manipulated system of education, where paper work, reports, tests, feel good BS statistics and quantity seems to be more important than the quality of education and qualifications.

      • greywarshark 23.1.1

        And I think that the state we are in today with our deficient government and opposition that are not ready to face reality, much less future events, is an indication of how we have received deficient education over the last century plus.

        Our education needs to be based on problem solving and understanding multiple views of any situation, gaining the skills to think through that, not using problems as exercises to advance our skill knowledge and sit exams to confirm our proficiency. A broad-based education that ensures the humanities, the conservation of the environment, as well as the hard sciences, are to the fore not left to be picked up later by somebody.

        o-one will then be able to concentrate entirely on business and money-making and creational economics (of any persuasion). Everyone will know at least two languages fluently, and four others to ask simple questions etc. This can be done in primary after the kids are eight, when their minds are ready to absorb more complex stuff, as educationists have discovered.

    • Macro 23.2

      It is all well good and useful to graduate in bee keeping, chain saw skills etc, but
      I am wondering how many or what % of their ‘highly successful’ students actually study academic studies such as Science, physics, Botany, Chemistry, Zoology, Economics, Accounting, Statistics, Architecture, Calculus etc , go to university and graduate as doctors, engineers, scientists etc. Strangely, the article praising this school did not mention that.

      That is because the people living on the Plains around here and in Thames know that this is a very successful school and has been for some time. They know many of the students finishing there move on to all manner of university and other tertiary studies. My daughter had the privilege of teaching there for a time Science and Geography . Then again your assertion that the less academic have little value.. well many of the young men who take their schooling there are destined to work on their parents farms after agriculture colleges. My butcher is a young graduate of Hauraki Plains and has just received praise for supplying the meat for award winning pies, baked here in Thames. As a past educator of Physics and Mathematics I appreciate that there are many other facets of life other than the “academic”.
      I think you do this very good secondary school a disservice with your comment.

      • Clemgeopin 23.2.1

        Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend. All studies, skills, jobs and professions are useful, needed and good. No problem with that.

        My concern and questions were genuine about the lack of information in the article about the brainy/harder academic courses and what % of students took those there. I think you missed the point or perhaps I did not explain myself properly.

        • Macro

          I think you would find similar proportions of students taking academic subjects at Hauraki Plains as any other secondary school of similar decile. My daughter reported the students were extremely well focused across all classes, and a very good culture existed in the school and has for some time.

          • Clemgeopin

            That is good to hear.

            Do you by any chance have the % of level 3, students that sat last year for each of Physics, Chemistry and Calculus and what their result % were? That information would be really interesting, especially as the report said that the level 3 students had an outstanding result of 95% success rate.

    • millsy 23.3

      This has been happening since the 1990’s, it isnt new, or peculiar to that particular school.

      Probably worth noting that NCEA was trialled in schools 5-6 years before it was implemented. I did NCEA level 2 English back in 1997.

  23. ankerawshark 24

    O.k. I am almost sure its official. Paddy Gower must be stupid. Reid poll out.

    National up very slightly. Labour up very slightly. Keys popularity down to under 40%
    Those polled say they are against foreign buyers buying up property……. (something like 65%.

    Minor parties down. National couldn’t govern alone. Would need NZ first.

    So Lab and Greens have enough with NZ first…………

    Then Paddy says, this shows it’s dangerous for Labour playing the race card………………….

    Paddy your either stupid or desperate to find a line that makes Labour look bad………..

    Maybe both.

    • Draco T Bastard 24.1

      I’d go with ‘both’.

    • gobsmacked 24.2

      I think the message of the poll was pretty obvious.

      On the substance of the issue (the policy question on offshore buyers) Labour had got it right.

      On their handling of it, they didn’t. So, no pay-off in the party vote.

      National are in trouble, but Labour aren’t smart enough to benefit. A familiar story, alas.

      • Colonial Viper 24.2.1

        that matches my analysis. No bump at all from Labour’s race baiting. Labour should have kept the message about the economics, about economic sovereignty and the foreign financing, but they thought they were being smart selling out on their left wing liberal values and picking on the Chinese.

        IMO Labour’s right wing chose the race tack and did not want to make any general statements around the principles of economic sovereignty, as that would be too left wing for them.

        I think the next couple of polls including the next Roy Morgan will be pivotal in understanding the full effects of Labour’s foray into race politics.

        • gobsmacked

          I think it’s more cock-up than conspiracy.

          Questions in parliament last week showed the problem. Little started asking about the flag referendum, a minor matter for the leader of the opposition. He was backing off the housing issue.

          National are giving gifts (Serco etc) and they are providing the headlines. Better to focus on that than alienating a lot of people on the left.

          In short, Labour won’t (shouldn’t) make the same mistake twice. I hope.

          • Clemgeopin

            You are doing false framing again!
            Just to check if there was any truth in your assertion, I went to the parliament website and this is what I saw:

            On the very first day of parliament this term, (Tuesday, 21 July 2015) Andrew Little asked this question on housing;

            ANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister : Does he stand by his statement in relation to affordability of homes in Auckland that “there’s a general view that housing prices are not overvalued”, given that the homeownership rate has fallen to its lowest level in 64 years?

            On the same day, Peters too asked a question on Housing.
            On the next day, Wed, 22, the housing question was asked by the Labour housing spokesperson, Twyford. He asked this:

            PHIL TWYFORD (Labour—Te Atatū) to the Minister of Finance : Does he stand by his statement about whether inequality was a problem in the Auckland housing market, “We’ve been concerned about that for some time, that there’s part of Auckland where there’s been really no new supply of lower value houses that low and middle-income families can afford”?

            On the same day Metiria Turei too asked a housing issue question too.

            So instead of the same housing issue, Little asked about the flag because the design submissions had just concluded.
            Again on Thursday, 23, Twyford once again asked more questions on Housing:

            PHIL TWYFORD to the Minister for Building and Housing: How does he intend to reduce the shortfall of Auckland houses in the next two years, given that under this Government the shortfall is increasing by 5000 a year, and the Productivity Commission predicts on current rates the shortfall – now 32,000 – will hit 60,000 by 2020?
            Labour’s different spokes people deal with the different issues : Hipkins on Education, Davis on corrections, Twyford on housing, King on health, Goff on foreign affairs. Robertson on finance etc.
            Little takes the overall charge without depriving the others.

            So, you see, your false framing of Little is wrong and unfair as seen from the questions this week alone.

        • Clemgeopin

          Bump in polls or not is NOT the main point or the question. At least it did not do any harm. The question is, was Twyford right in highlighting the dire problem of the possible money coming in from non resident Chinese for Auckland houses? I say YES, he absolutely did the right thing highlighting the issue rather than allow it to fester quietly around office water coolers in Chinese whispers.

          The poll shows that over 60% of people and over 50% of NATIONAL voters WANT to stop non residents (‘not’ residents) from buying houses in Auckland. All this IN SPITE of the false framing indulged in by the RW crooks and the LW asinines as being ‘racist’. The fools framing it so are the real racists.

          Twyford and Labour are well vindicated. No doubt about that. There is still over two years for the election. Keep calm and carry on, I say.

          • Colonial Viper

            At least it did not do any harm.

            ? Far far too early to determine that. Dozens of Labour activists have left the party or “downed tools”. And the true impact of that alone will take time to appear.

            • Clemgeopin

              Hey, we live in a free democratic society. Not in Guatemala or 福州. Any one is free to leave or join. Some do it with honest principles while some others do it for cheap political stunts.

              As long as Labour does the best by the country and all its people (including all legal immigrants), I am happy. Nothing else matters. For those that have left, I say さようなら.

    • Stephen 24.4

      Maybe the Labour Party did it because it’s good policy, not the same as being good for polls.
      And yes, Paddy is a fuckwit.

    • Anne 24.5

      I don’t think Labour would want a massive rise in the polls at this stage. Don Brash and National actually did play the race card around the time of the Orewa speech. Every redneck (and there’s a lot of them and probably includes Gower) in the country cheered them on. The last thing Labour wants is to be compared with is a bunch of rednecks.

      • Colonial Viper 24.5.1

        Labour decided to emphasise the ethnic aspects, and not the economic sovereignty aspects, of foreign buyers in the NZ property market.

        IMO they did that as an appeal to Waitakere Man (and Woman), and in order to not use too much economically left leaning language.

        Caucus definitely wanted a rise in the polls from this exercise, and would have been expecting one after days of wall to wall media coverage of the issue.

        • Clemgeopin

          Labour’s whole emphasis WAS on off shore non residents buying Auckland houses. They showed (in the absence of more reliable data) that the nearly 40% of houses sold in three months went to Chinese sounding owners disproportionate to their 9% population. That was the point which was framed by dishonest people as being racist. It wasn’t.

          Of course, there would be some names that would sound like Chinese names, but will not be. that is true and Labour acknowledged that.

          • gobsmacked

            Casually dismissing large numbers on the left and from ethnic communities as “dishonest” EXACTLY illustrates the problem.

            • McFlock

              Ah, but in what way?

              Personally I think “dishonest” is a bit harsh, though. It implies a blanket motive for the many reasons that some folks were just plain wrong.

            • Anne

              I don’t think Clemgeopin is “casually” dismissing large numbers on the left and from ethnic communities as “dishonest” gobsmacked. I strongly suspect many of them mistakenly believed the false framing that was built up around this issue and in particular… I refer to the disingenuous framing from the National Party and their acolytes. eg. Matthew Hooton.

              • Colonial Viper

                On the Sat morning interview, Twyford emphasised over and over that Chinese investors and people with Chinese names who were the problem. He had plenty of opportunities to generalise the case to all foreign money, to economic sovereignty, to mention buyers from the UK or USA etc as also being potential issues, but he did not.

                • McFlock

                  He had plenty of opportunities to generalise the case to all foreign money, to economic sovereignty, to mention buyers from the UK or USA etc as also being potential issues, but he did not.

                  This interview?

                  Where Twyford made comments such as:

                  I want to ban foreign buyers no matter where they come from. I want us to save the Kiwi dream of affordable homeownership for all New Zealanders. One of the things we should do, and it’s by no means the only problem we need to solve; it’s by no means the only policy we need to adopt; but actually banning foreign buyers will actually make a difference, and reduce the spiralling house prices that are making homeownership unaffordable.


                  We’re going to crack down on speculators generally, and we have a policy review underway. There are a myriad of different tax and policy approaches that we can do to level the playing field away from the current incentives for property speculation in our economy. So we’re going to do that. We’re going ban foreign buyers.


                  We’re going to build thousands of affordable homes for first-home buyers in New Zealand. We’re going to change the planning rules so that the industry can build more and better housing in places where people want to live.


                  I’m standing up for young Kiwi first-home buyers who currently are denied the dream of affordable homeownership. This is a matter of vital public interest. The Government is in denial. They have refused to give New Zealanders the information about foreign buyers


                  I’m speaking for young New Zealanders who want affordable homeownership. If we solve this problem, if we ban foreign buyers, that will make a big difference.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Yeah, that’s why dozens of Labour Party members have left.

                    Having just watched the clip, yes, I agree that Twyford definitely slanted this towards the buyers being Chinese far more than was warranted, and he should have couched it in more general terms of foreign buyers, and he had plenty of opportunities to do so. It did come across as a racist dog-whistle.

                    Tip: that’s not me who said that

                    • Clemgeopin

                      Twyford was being honest and straight up. You would prefer him to be less so, like Key? Twyford wasn’t being offensive or racist. He was exposing a huge housing crisis in Auckland and speaking the truth from the data he had.

                    • McFlock

                      no it was Lanth that said that. Not that Lanth claimed to have left (or ever joined) Labour, AFAIK.

                      And frankly, I think it’s a false-positive.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Clemgeopin: Pretty sure Ng, Mok, Kan, myself, and a lot of other Kiwi Chinese found Labour’s tactics utterly offensive. But I welcome lots more Pakeha saying it was OK, not offensive, not anti-Chinese etc.

                      Anyways. No polling pay off for Labour even though most Kiwis agree that there should be no foreign ownership, and I think the damage caused is yet to make itself felt.

                    • Clemgeopin

                      Col. Viper, just because you are Chinese does not make you right or smart. Don’t take stupid offense when none was intended. Use your brains. Understand the problem.
                      孔子 says, “Bubble, bubble, housing bubble can soon make plenty trouble. Just one non-resident prick, can burst all bubbles. Bubble, bubble, plenty trouble!”

                    • McFlock

                      jesus, clem… [headdesk]

                  • Bill

                    Christ on a bike ‘McFlock’!

                    The first cut and paste you provide is in response to a direct proposal to sanction only Chinese buyers. (What else was he going to say ffs!)

                    The second was a direct lead up to that first one. (If not just Chinese, then what?)

                    The third was a part of the second response.

                    And the forth and fifth were squeezed in right at the tail end of the interview.

                    Now, you and I and everyone knows that first impressions count. And right up until he would have had to respond “yes, only (insert ‘otherness’), he banged on about Chinese and only Chinese… and then there was the Chinese.

                    But look, here’s the thing. Labour, as far as I understand, have access to electronic copies of the electoral roll. So why didn’t they run those 4000 sales against the roll? It wouldn’t have been perfect, but would have given a far clearer picture than the one they presented and it would have avoided any scapegoating/dog-whistling or what have you.

                    The reason they didn’t, wouldn’t have been because they wanted cheap votes, hmm?

                    Thankfully, and I mean this sincerely, it hasn’t worked.

                    • McFlock

                      OK, let’s work through your methodology (even if that’s a legal use of the electoral roll).

                      How would you do it and what exactly would you be seeking to demonstrate?

            • sabine

              casually calling large numbers from the left and from ethnic communities as racists is ok tho?

            • Clemgeopin

              Dishonest from the point of view of second guessing what the real point of the Twyford’s exercise was, which was to show that one of the causes of the skyrocketing house prices in Auckland was the money (legal or dodgy cash) coming from non residents most of the culprits seemed to be from China. It was NOT against the local resident Chinese at all who Twyford said he welcomes with open arms if they are legitimately locals buying houses.

              It is up to the government to show that Twyford was wrong, if he was wrong at all, by producing accurate statistics of non residents owning houses which isn’t too difficult for the Government to do if THEY are honest. They too, like the false ‘racist’ branding framers, aren’t! The government does not need to wait to BEGIN collecting some IRD numbers starting from OCTOBER! Do it NOW and have it back dated for the last seven years or even fifteen years. Computers are good, accurate and quick at doing such stuff!

              So, I would say that the framing of the serious issue as racist is, if not dishonestly by all, then done by a false understanding of being PC or by being scared to be honest or by being quite stupid. Doesn’t really matter which. What matters is the accelerating house prices meed to be stopped by all possible measures. Today, even Key agreed, by saying heavy taxing for land is a better option than banning non residents buying.

              So the point is that Twyford and Labour have made this an important issue for considering serious solutions.

              • Bill

                Twyford can be right on the general thrust of the information and still be guilty of dog whistling. And that makes him wrong to have indulged in the shit he indulged in.

                As said in reply to ‘McFlock’, electronic versions of the electoral roll are available to political parties. They could have used that to get a more precise onshore/offshore split…and for a fraction of the price they spent on doing what they did.

                • Colonial Viper

                  And Twyford didn’t dream this strategy up by his lonesome.

                  Little, the Leaders Office, and a number of other MPs were crucial to developing and choosing this strategy. Very planned, very deliberate.

                • Clemgeopin

                  You do that Bill and prove that Twyford was dog whistling and wrong, instead of being too clever by half.

          • Bill

            Singling out any identifiable minority and pointing a finger of blame at them isn’t dishonest: it’s just plain fucking wrong on multiple levels of wrongness.

            • Clemgeopin

              What minority? Nothing to do with ‘minority’ or ‘majority’. It was to do with the non resident Chinese money rushing in in droves to buy investment property in Auckland and pushing prices beyond the reach of the residents, including the resident Chinese. Don’t be so daft.

              • greywarshark

                We have not long ago had Helen Clark apologising to Chinese people for past racist wrongs and bad treatment, murder included because of the hatred, fear and disdain for their ethnicity. (Think Dunedin mad guy. Forgotten his name. And others I’ve recently come across.) So Twyford should have been aware of sensitivity being needed.

                His approach would have been better if he had gone in stages, with worrying stats alone to start. Then said that real estate figures he had received indicated that there was a strong move of foreign money into Auckland housing. Then said that he was looking at a statistical analysis trying to establish from where, in the absence of any figures from government sources or the Overseas Investment office.

                Stages would have been better. Then announce the Asian figure as a bloc with other known comparative figures – Europe, UK, USA, South America. Then Colonial Viper would have had less to bite on!

            • ianmac

              We single out the minority population of Maori to point out that they represent a huge part of the prison population Bill. Racist is it?

              • Adele

                Kiaora Ianmac

                When Pakeha single out Maori or any other ethnicity for special mention – its never a good thing usually. The Chinese are taking over the country, and the Maoris are taking over the prisons.

                • greywarshark

                  Reading that – Maori are taking over the prisons, got me thinking. Instead of Serco, why not contract Maori professionals to manage them and help them acquire needed education and life skills?

                  I have heard that there are numbers of successful programs for life training from interested Maori. Perhaps Ngawha could become a pilot working under a plan to incorporate the successful small programs on a bigger scale, working in stages and aiming to restore self-worth, self-control and self-direction within the collective culture of community.

      • ankerawshark 24.5.2

        Anne@24.5 1000+

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