Open Mike 27/07/2017

78 comments on “Open Mike 27/07/2017 ”

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1. Ed 1

   27 July 2017 at 6:15 am

   Rachel Stewart: Councils must walk the climate talk.
   Nails the issues, as ever.

   Excerpt.

   ‘Greater Wellington Regional Council, pushing hard on their Water Wairarapa scheme, which would see the construction of at least one dam. Its success is based on a large water uptake by dairy farmers who would use it to both irrigate and intensify their operations.

   Yet, intensification of dairy farming is probably about the last thing New Zealand needs right now. The number of dairy cows has almost doubled over the past 25 years, and methane emissions have risen steadily with them.

   According to the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, methane currently accounts for 43 per cent of New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions. Over 80 per cent of it is produced by ruminant animals. Why would any council that claims to care about climate change push for more dairy intensification?’

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11894799
   • srylands 1.1

     27 July 2017 at 11:02 am

     Because global dairy production reflects global demand. If New Zealand reduces dairy output then competitor countries will increase production. Impact on methane emissions zero.
     • Robert Guyton 1.1.1

       27 July 2017 at 11:08 am

       Impact on New Zealand’s methane emission, significant. Then, we do some more. Other countries will follow. Humans need leaders. We need to lead; following’s for sheep.
       • srylands 1.1.1.1

         28 July 2017 at 7:55 am

         No. We need a sensible system of international emissions trading. This was an important element of the Kyoto Protocol. It remains important.
         • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.1.1

           28 July 2017 at 8:25 am

           No. We need to stop pouring greenhouses gases into the atmosphere. Weasel deals will always suit the weasely minority and harm the wider population.
     • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2

       27 July 2017 at 1:31 pm

       The competitor countries are already increasing production:

       The US dairy industry is undergoing change and cow numbers are expected to reach 9.2m head by 2024, according to Dr Robert Johansson, Chief Economist with the US Department of Agriculture.

       “We expect cow numbers to continue to recover going forward to 2018-2019 rising to its highest point in 2019,” he told over 400 delegates at the Agricultural Science Association’s conference in Co. Kilkenny.

       Dr Johansson said that by 2024 individual dairy cow production is expected to increased to just over 12,250kg per cow.

       We presently have around 6.5 million dairy cows.

       Impact on methane +lots.
       • Jimmy 1.1.2.1

         27 July 2017 at 4:53 pm

         What the fuck would you know Draco, didn’t you predict the end of NZ dairy a couple of years ago!
         If I recall the reason was other countries had productive capacity.
         You have a history of being wrong
         • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2.1.1

           27 July 2017 at 5:13 pm

           What the fuck would you know Draco, didn’t you predict the end of NZ dairy a couple of years ago!

           More than you and no.

           If I recall the reason was other countries had productive capacity.

           What I said was that primary produce can’t have any competitive advantages because anybody can do it. Seems to me that that’s exactly what’s happening as the price of dairy plummeted when new players enter the scene.

           You have a history of being wrong

           [citation needed]
           • jimmy 1.1.2.1.1.1

             27 July 2017 at 5:35 pm

             No what you said was that NZ dairy would never recover!
             Weasel around it however you like.
             • Draco T Bastard …

               27 July 2017 at 7:10 pm

               [Citation needed]
     • McFlock 1.1.3

       27 July 2017 at 1:36 pm

       tsk.

       you’re forgetting the basics of your dark religion, spylands.

       NZ can compete effectively because it can produce the same product at a lower price than the competition. If NZ reduces dairy output, then the competitors will make up production, but at a more expensive price. So volume demand will go down, and less will be produced to find a new equilibrium. Therefore NZ stopping dairy production will decrease global dairy-related emissions,
     • Ed 1.1.4

       27 July 2017 at 5:50 pm

       Pity nature bats last…..
       • Draco T Bastard 1.1.4.1

         27 July 2017 at 7:10 pm

         And doesn’t take any prisoners.
         • Ed 1.1.4.1.1

           27 July 2017 at 8:10 pm

           I do wonder if srylands is aware of these issues….
2. Ed 2

   27 July 2017 at 6:37 am

   New Zealand must investigate this.

   ‘NZ has done ‘horrific job’ protecting most vulnerable – commissioner’

   Abuse of intellectually disabled people in state care over five decades has been brought to light in a new report by the Human Rights Commission.

   The report, released today, contains the stories of 17 people who were mistreated by staff in mental health facilities and hospitals between the 1950s and 1990s.

   Disability Rights Commissioner Paul Gibson said many of the accounts were utterly sickening.The newly-released report follows last year’s revelations of systemic abuse in boys’ and girls’ state homes over the second half of the 20th century.

   That prompted calls for an independent inquiry into the issue, which the government initially rebuffed.

   Since then, the government’s line has softened, with Prime Minister Bill English signalling two weeks ago he may be open to the idea.

   Mr Gibson said the abuse suffered by all of those in the state’s hands deserved nothing less than a full investigation.

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/335902/nz-has-done-horrific-job-protecting-most-vulnerable
3. Ed 3

   27 July 2017 at 6:50 am

   Radio New Zealand running an ongoing discussion on office jargon, slavishly repeating what the’market’ tells it to say and continuing its witchhunt of Metiria Turei.

   To its defenders, please explain how that is different from Garner’s show pony show.

   On the bright side Ken Loach is being interviewed by Kim Hill this weekend.
   He will give a different perspective I sense on the Metiria story.
   • Morrissey 3.1

     27 July 2017 at 7:25 am

     She’ll have a go at him for supporting Irish civil rights, Palestinian human rights, and for supporting Jeremy Corbyn.
     • garibaldi 3.1.1

       27 July 2017 at 8:09 am

       Ironic that the righties refer to RNZ as red radio isn’t it?
     • Ed 3.1.2

       27 July 2017 at 5:52 pm

       I listened to Stephen Franks and Josie Pagani on the Panel today.
       That was an error.
       • Morrissey 3.1.2.1

         27 July 2017 at 8:23 pm

         I heard them too! They actually sounded like two reasonable human beings this afternoon, and even Jim Mora didn’t say anything too unctuous for a change. A far cry from the last time Franks and Pagani were on the show. On that occasion, Franks came across as reasonable and decent—well, certainly he was compared to the bloodthirsty and hysterical Pagani….

         https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-06112016/#comment-1255436
4. Morrissey 4

   27 July 2017 at 7:34 am

   “Baaaaaa-a-a-a-aaa.”

   More humbug from National: its “candidate” in Ohariu is providing a lead for his flock by vowing to vote for Peter Dunne….

   https://bretthudson.national.org.nz/

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_0mDkN-TB4
   • greywarshark 4.1

     27 July 2017 at 11:01 am

     He looks a handsome, assured, grey-haired animal. Not likely to seem out of place in Parliament.
5. Morrissey 5

   27 July 2017 at 7:38 am

   A couple of Latin versions of Toby Keith
   bark out their hatred of democracy.

   You’ve probably heard that Spanish pop record “Despacito” over the last few weeks, by a couple of Puerto Ricans called Daddy Yankee and Luis Fonsi. It’s the most popular piece of Latin nonsense since the gorgeous “Ketchup” song of fifteen years ago—indeed it’s now the most played song ever, in any language.

   Among those who have heard it are supporters of the democratic government in Venezuela. One of them had the inspired idea of doing away with the inane original lyrics and turning it into an anthem of hope and support for democratic values…

   http://www.nbcnews.com/video/remix-of-despacito-from-venezuela-s-president-nicolas-maduro-1008281667983

   Great idea, right? Improving a piece of dreck, recycling a piece of meretricious rubbish like “Despacito” is part of a timeless and honored tradition.

   Sadly, however, the perpetrators of the original were not happy. Both Luis Fonsi and Daddy Yankee have unleashed blimpish and confused outbursts against the democratic Venezuelan government: “Your dictatorial regime is a joke,” claimed Fonsi—or was it Daddy Yankee?—and the other one (Fonsi? Daddy Yankee?) claimed that “the Venezuelan people are crying out for their freedom.”

   So what motivated these two Puerto Rican pop-putzes to indulge in the most absurd display of bewilderment since Jared Leto and Kevin Spacey declaimed at an awards ceremony? Well, just have a look at Daddy Yankee’s murky past: he’s a self-declared “Christian”, and a Republican, and voted for John McCain in 2008. You can be sure he’s a Rump supporter as well. He hates democracy…..

   http://hollowverse.com/daddy-yankee/

   Luis Fonsi doesn’t seem to have any ideas about anything. I’m pretty sure all the energy of this anti-democracy rant came from Daddy Yankee, and that Fonsi just followed his lead.

   There are many thoughtful and well informed Puerto Rican commentators, such as Juan González, Ululy Martinez and Oscar Lopez Rivera. However, as is so often the case, the Puerto Ricans getting nearly all the publicity at the moment are—thanks to the political choices of the media—two unfeasibly ignorant, lazy, and stupid ones.
6. Ad 6

   27 July 2017 at 8:36 am

   I can’t decide if I want to enjoy Lana Del Ray’s music, or be crooned into an anxious sleep by it:

   https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/07/lana-del-rey-lust-for-life-review/534816/
   • Andre 6.1

     27 July 2017 at 5:14 pm

     It seems she’s got more … ahem … interesting… ideas for the effects of her music.

     http://www.salon.com/2017/07/26/lana-del-rey-trump-spell-hex/
7. Norfolk Traveller 7

   27 July 2017 at 9:29 am

   Quoted from the MSD Report:

   There is no evidence of any sustained rising or falling trend in BHC household income inequality over the last two decades using the Gini and top 1% share measures
   o The share of income received by the top 1% of tax-payers has been steady in the 8-9% range since the early 1990s, up from 5% in the late 1980s.
   The Gini measure of inequality is a popular one but, because it uses information on all household incomes, it is susceptible to showing large fluctuations because of sampling issues for very high income households:
   the 2015 HES (like the 2011 HES) had an unusually high number of very high income households, which led to an usually high Gini number
   in the 2016 HES the number of very high income households was a little closer to normal and the Gini number dropped accordingly, back towards the trend line
   for the lower 99% there is no evidence of any sustained rising or falling trend in the last 20 years, using the Gini.
   Apart from a blip in 2011, the 90:10 ratio was fairly flat from 2004 to 2016. Like the top 1% measure, the 90:10 showed a large rise from the late 1980s to the early 1990s – there was a slight rise in the 90:10 ratio from the mid 1990s to the mid 2000s, but much less than the earlier large rise.
   Incomes after deducting housing costs (AHC incomes) are more unequal than BHC incomes, as housing costs make up a higher proportion of the household budget for lower income households than they do for higher income households. AHC income inequality was also a little higher from 2011 to 2016 compared with the mid 2000s and earlier.

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   

   [you need to link to things you are cutting and pasting from somewhere else. Better to give a smaller cut and paste with a short explanation and the link than post big screeds of text with no analysis – weka]
   • Norfolk Traveller 7.1

     27 July 2017 at 9:30 am

     • Low income (poverty) and material hardship trends for children are flat or falling depending on the start date or measure used
     o For monitoring trends, the reports use as their primary measures:
     – an anchored line income measure AHC, 50% and 60% of median (reference year, 2007)
     – a material hardship measure with both a less and a more severe threshold.
     o Child numbers using an AHC anchored 50% of median line are down from their GFC peak of 200,000 (19%) to 155,000 (14%) on average in 2015 and 2016, below pre-GFC numbers of 180,000 (17%).
     o Using the higher AHC anchored 60% of median line numbers are down from 270,000 (25%) at their peak in the GFC to 220,000 (20%) on average in 2015 and 2016, a little below pre-GFC numbers of 250,000 (24%).
     o Child material hardship numbers are down from 220,000 (20%) in the GFC to 135,000 (12%) on average in 2015 and 2016 using the less severe measure. 60% of this decline has come from “non-poor” households moving out of hardship as their incomes improved, a reminder of the precarious nature of household finances for some of the “near-poor” (those with incomes above a particular low-income line but below the median).
     o Using the more severe measure, numbers were steady at around 80,000 to 100,000 through to 2014, but were lower at around 70,000 on average for 2015 and 2016.
     o The two thresholds closely correspond to the EU ‘standard’ and ‘severe’ measures.
     o For all the above measures, the 2016 numbers were lower than expected from the previous trend data, so another survey is needed to know whether this was a random statistical fluctuation or not – the finding of a net decline in recent years on these primary measures is not in doubt, it’s just the size of the fall that needs clarification with another year’s data.
     o Relative income poverty trends have generally been flat and steady over the last decade and even longer – the exception is for the AHC 60% figures which have been relatively volatile, albeit still representing a flat trend.
     o The falling numbers for the anchored line measures reflect the fact that there is an improvement in real terms for household incomes for some in the low-income zone … and the flat relative income trends mean that the incomes of the bulk of lower-income households are holding their own relative to the median.
     o The changes from the Budget 2015 CMH package came in on 1 April 2016, so this 2015-16 survey picks up virtually nothing from this; the Budget 2017 Family Incomes package will impact on the 2018-19 survey – the 2020 reports will pick up these impacts.
     o See the Appendix for detailed tables for low income and material hardship numbers for children.
     • marty mars 7.1.1

       27 July 2017 at 9:50 am

       Awww just like a seagull regurgitating dinner for the young ones – thanks nt very cute.
     • Gabby 7.1.2

       27 July 2017 at 11:20 am

       So things are getting worse for poor people.
       • Norfolk Traveller 7.1.2.1

         27 July 2017 at 11:31 am

         [deleted]

         [stop cut and pasting without links. See my moderation note in your comment that got moved to OM. I suggest you start paying attention to what is going on in conversations. Putting you in moderation until I see you get what needs to happen here – weka]
     • Ad 7.1.3

       27 July 2017 at 12:35 pm

       “flat” and “steady” are the only useful words to describe the performance of this government.
   • Norfolk Traveller 7.2

     27 July 2017 at 12:18 pm

     All good. The link is https://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/monitoring/household-incomes/. The specific document I am quoting from is titled c6-headline-findings-final-21-july-2017, and is under the ‘Documents’ panel.
   • Ad 7.3

     27 July 2017 at 12:33 pm

     The task of any government is to make a difference.
     This MSD report excerpt shows that after 9 years the National government they have not made a difference.

     The task of good government is to make a positive difference.
     There is no evidence of A Brighter Future anywhere in the excerpt.

     Great reasons overall to get rid of this government and try something different.
     • McFlock 7.3.1

       27 July 2017 at 12:40 pm

       they’ve made a difference.

       After housing costs are included, inequality has risen.
       • Draco T Bastard 7.3.1.1

         27 July 2017 at 1:42 pm

         This MSD report excerpt shows that after 9 years the National government they have not made a difference.

         They’ve made a difference: They’ve enriched the already rich while increasing poverty.
     • Norfolk Traveller 7.3.2

       27 July 2017 at 3:39 pm

       There is an unhealthy obsession here with this government. The point of the MSD report is that it proves the lie that the left has been spreading about inequality and poverty.
       • Stuart Munro 7.3.2.1

         27 July 2017 at 3:46 pm

         Nonsense – this government has defaulted on most of its social responsibilities, often releasing partial snatches of statistical information to mislead credulous journalists and they hope the public.
         • Norfolk Traveller 7.3.2.1.1

           27 July 2017 at 4:02 pm

           Thanks for proving my point.
       • McFlock 7.3.2.2

         27 July 2017 at 4:01 pm

         commenters on a political blog have an unhealthy obsession with the government of the day?

         Sounds unlikely /sarc
8. joe90 8

   27 July 2017 at 10:05 am

   So the Pentagon follows Twitter to find out whether US has started a nuclear war.

   .

   .

   At the Pentagon, the first of the three tweets raised fears that the president was getting ready to announce strikes on North Korea or some other military action. Many said they were left in suspense for nine minutes, the time between the first and second tweet. Only after the second tweet did military officials receive the news the president was announcing a personnel change on Twitter.

   https://www.buzzfeed.com/coralewis/trump-transgender-military-service?utm_term=.coRqqqw1Px#.jyPdddxJwQ
   • McFlock 8.1

     27 July 2017 at 4:03 pm

     [headdesk]
     it’s funny because it’s true…
9. srylands 9

   27 July 2017 at 11:07 am

   Presenting evidence here is a waste of space. It is like arguing with anti vaxxers. One Anonymous Bloke is a prime example of obtuseness and rudeness in a nuggety little package.

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
   • greywarshark 9.1

     27 July 2017 at 11:30 am

     Presenting biased, one-sided, already revealed as false evidence here is a waste of space.
     FIFY
   • Robert Guyton 9.2

     27 July 2017 at 1:12 pm

     I love OAB’s work. Cuts through the crap.
10. Penny Bright 10

    27 July 2017 at 11:25 am

    WHISTLE-BLOWER ALERT!

    How genuine is Transparency International in fighting corruption?

    Seen THIS?

    https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/transparency-international-strips-us-affiliate-of-accreditation/

    Transparency International Strips United States Affiliate of Accreditation

    By Editor Filed in News January 19th, 2017 @ 1:52 pm

    The Berlin-based anti-corruption organization Transparency International has stripped its US affiliate — Transparency International USA — of its accreditation.

    Transparency International USA appealed the decision, but last week the appeal was denied by Berlin.

    It is unclear whether Transparency International USA will continue to operate and if so under what name.

    Disaccredited affiliates are no longer permitted to use Transparency International’s name or logo.

    Claudia Dumas, Transparency International USA’s President and CEO, did not return calls seeking comment.

    Transparency International USA joins the likes of Transparency Croatia in having its credentials stripped.

    The Washington, D.C. based Transparency International USA identifies itself as “a non-partisan, non-profit organization dedicated to strengthening integrity and combating corruption in the United States and internationally.”

    But increasingly it has been seen in the United States as a corporate front group, funded by multinational corporations — the same multinationals that corrupt the U.S. political system.

    Its million dollar a year budget was sustained by contributions from Bechtel Corporation, Deloitte, Google, Pfizer ($50,000 or more), Citigroup, ExxonMobil, Fluor, General Electric, Lockheed Martin, Marsh & McLennan, PepsiCo, PricewaterhouseCoopers, Raytheon, Realogy, Tyco ($25,000–$49,999), and Freeport-McMoRan and Johnson & Johnson (up to $24,999).

    It yearly gives its annual corporate leadership award to one of its big corporate funders. Last year the award went to Bechtel.

    Its board of directors is dominated by corporate lawyers, many of whom defend companies from charges of foreign bribery.

    The board includes Alan Larson of Covington & Burling, Lanny Breuer, a partner at Covington & Burling, Peter Clark, a partner at Cadwalader, Brackett Denniston, senior counsel at Goodwin, Lucinda Low, a partner at Steptoe & Johnson, Mark Mendelsohn, a partner at Paul Weiss, Steven Tyrrell a partner at Weil Gotshal, and Michael Bailey general counsel of Bechtel.

    In a 2015 interview with Corporate Crime Reporter, Sarah Chayes, author of Thieves of State: Why Corruption Threatens Global Security, was critical of Transparency International USA’s failure to tackle corruption in the United States — what she identified as a system of “legalized bribery.”

    Chayes says that there are four or five parties in the United States — Wall Street, the health industry, the energy industry and the military industrial complex — that have wrested the laws to serve themselves.

    “What is most dangerous is the way that those groups of people have managed to shape the legal environment in ways that suit them, including campaign finance, which allows essentially for legalized bribery in this country,” Chayes said.

    “Transparency International chapters are supposed to focus on the countries in which they are resident,” Chayes said.

    “Transparency International Columbia works on corruption in Columbia.

    But Transparency International USA is constantly focused on corruption in Third World countries.

    It’s ridiculous.

    You would have thought that Transparency International USA would have been at the forefront of ensuring that the criminal bankers that gave us the financial collapse in 2008 would be criminally prosecuted.

    And maybe Transparency USA should have investigated the relationship between the Treasury Department and the banking sector.

    But I didn’t see any of that.”

    According to Transparency International’s accreditation policy — “full accredited national chapters pass through a review process every three years, aimed at ensuring continuous compliance with our standards and strengthening the work of the chapters.”

    “In instances where a chapter’s performance continually falls short of the standards, the chapter may voluntarily withdraw or face disaccreditation or suspension from the movement.”

    Last year, Transparency International stripped its Croatian affiliate because “TI Croatia showed little engagement with other national advocacy organizations, TI Croatia had not raised sufficient financial resources, and the quality and impact-level of TI Croatia activities was not satisfactory.”

    Transparency has yet to issue a statement as to why Transparency International USA was stripped of its credentials.

    The parent organization itself has come under criticism for accepting millions of dollars from companies that have engaged in bribery.

    Siemens, which donated $3 million to Transparency International in 2014, pled guilty in 2008 to bribery charges and paid more than $1.6 billion in penalties.

    Siemens was implicated in corruption in Greece, Norway, Iraq, Vietnam, Italy, Israel, Argentina, Venezuela, China and Russia.

    Transparency International’s policy forbids accepting money from corrupt companies.

    _________________________

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-privatisation / anti-corruption campaigner.’

    2017 Independent candidate for Tamaki.

    (Exposing the $1.6 BILLION Tamaki ‘Regeneration’ – GENTRIFICATION $CAM.)
11. greywarshark 11

    27 July 2017 at 11:26 am

    Thames – 100 skilled employees go as old business can’t cope any more. There needs to be input from regions that give mentoring and guidance to their businesses with an eye to keeping them and building them up rather than run down. They should be able to get help from MoBie for this in a properly run country that doesn’t leave everything to chance and the whims of merchants with PPA (Personal Profit Addiction).

    They need to have a Council-sponsored business section which can go out and sell their products to buyers in NZ. The people need to have explained to them that it is time for them to become part of a vibrant community where all get behind local enterprise and ensure that they have jobs for the young, money for Council basics and amenities etc. And advise them that cities in the USA have filed for bankruptcy, tell them about Clint, last seen by me advertising that they haven’t had clean water for two or more years. And that times are tough and long-term businesses aren’t safe and if they want to keep good businesses and jobs they have to be nimble, make change, not sit back apathetically and sigh ‘That’s how it is these days, nothing can be done, just have to accept it I suppose’.

    There needs to be a ginger group with a good grounding of pragmatic sense, but get everyone in on regular brainstorming – let the minds flow free, and then look at what possible ideas come forward. Time for citizens to get involved and ensure that they don’t get walked over and left to rot.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201852548/heartbreak-and-job-losses-for-thames-engineering-workers

    business
    Heartbreak and job losses for Thames engineering workers
    From Morning Report, 7:17 am today
    Listen duration 4′ :16″
    About 100 workers at a Thames engineering firm have been told to collect their tools and leave, as the company goes into liquidation. Thames man Brian Donnelly worked at A & E Price with his brother and son. He told Morning Report it’s a very sad day.

    business

    Thames mayor swings into action to help redundant staff
    From Morning Report, 8:10 am today
    Listen duration 5′ :03″

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201852559/thames-mayor-swings-into-action-to-help-redundant-staff
    Just over 90 staff at Thames engineering firm A & G Price have been told to collect their tools and hand over their keys. Thames Coromandel Mayor Sandra Goudie says the council is working to help the staff being made redundant.

    But from what I heard it was assisting staff with looking for work managing the closure and loss. We can’t just do that any more because there is no new worthwhile work likely to arise because of the dead-hand-of-free-market-captured NZ government.
    • greywarshark 11.1

      27 July 2017 at 12:53 pm

      Also a story about the works in Thames from yesterday in Poissions comment.
      https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-26072017/#comment-1358014
12. You_Fool 12

    27 July 2017 at 12:13 pm

    Interesting article in the herald today, which links to a Spinoff article

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11895708
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/auckland/27-07-2017/finally-revealed-report-shows-rail-destroys-roading-for-auckland-freight/

    The report into the business case for greater freight efficiency in Auckland has been released in full (as opposed to a redacted version earlier). ben Ross goes over the document and discovers an interesting(but completely unsurprising) truth… Rail is better in all indicators than road.

    So the question need to be asked… why are we building more roads, like the E-W link when the best option is to build more rail?
    • Draco T Bastard 12.1

      27 July 2017 at 1:45 pm

      Was just reading about that over here:

      The Third Main came out solidly in second place. The Fourth Main (meaning construction of both Mains at the same time) came out as the winner despite a low BCR (NZTA’s BCR’s are a tad hopeless measuring wider economic and environment affects both positive and negative). Any attempt to shift more freight by road via more HPMV 54 tonne trucks and/or widening the Southern Motorway carried a BCR of negative 2.2.

      Reality proves National (and RWNJs in general) wrong yet again.
    • Kevin 12.2

      27 July 2017 at 3:47 pm

      Holy fuck! Does the govt know this has been released?
      • Draco T Bastard 12.2.1

        27 July 2017 at 5:16 pm

        Considering that it seems to have been because of a court case showing National fucking with the OIA processes again – probably.
    • Psycho Milt 12.3

      27 July 2017 at 3:50 pm

      So the question need to be asked… why are we building more roads, like the E-W link when the best option is to build more rail?

      Wayne answered it the other day – rail is public sector, trucks are private sector. National would back the Road Transport Association over Kiwirail even without all those donations.
      • Draco T Bastard 12.3.1

        27 July 2017 at 5:18 pm

        Yep, National are all about supporting profits over good economics.

        That, of course, proves that the profit drive doesn’t bring about the best results as the economists and politicians have been telling us for so long now.
13. weka 13

    27 July 2017 at 12:18 pm

    Please read and respond to my note in Open Mike.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • Norfolk Traveller 13.1

      27 July 2017 at 12:20 pm

      Done.
    • Robert Guyton 13.2

      27 July 2017 at 2:21 pm

      I hear ya, OAB. Wasn’t that maninthemiddle a drip!
    • One Anonymous Bloke 13.3

      27 July 2017 at 2:26 pm

      …it may have been Mordecai – as I said, one of the sockpuppets.

      Either they’re all the same person or there’s a remarkable borg-like similarity in their comments and behaviour.

      [FFS OAB, thanks for sending me on that wild goose chase. If you think there are people using sock-puppets on TS, then you can email Lynn. You need to provide detail, links and rationale. I’m not averse to someone shoulder tapping me on the front end, but they’d better be sure of what they are accusing and be ready to back it up, not just start flinging out names randomly and then changing their mind. Lynn is the only one I know that has the ability to do anything other than very rudimentary checking.

      Otherwise, please don’t challenge people’s use of pseudonyms because it creates conflict and unsafety, and it wastes moderator time. – weka]
      • weka 13.3.1

        27 July 2017 at 3:21 pm

        .
        • One Anonymous Bloke 13.3.1.1

          27 July 2017 at 3:35 pm

          Re: your note. I didn’t change my mind. I just wasn’t sure which of the particular sockpuppet names the note applied to. I don’t really have any evidence other than to look at the striking similarities between comments and style of ‘debate’.

          Anyway sorry for wasting your time.
          • weka 13.3.1.1.1

            27 July 2017 at 4:04 pm

            You made reference to a previous moderation note. You could have linked to that i.e. gone and done the leg work first. Plus provided examples of what you think are striking similarities. I think you named 3 pseudonyms, that’s a lot of work for someone to look up in the back end. What I’m saying is that if you seriously think there is a sock puppet issue for the site, then put that information together and give it to the appropriate person. Otherwise it just looks like more slagging someone off.
            • One Anonymous Bloke 13.3.1.1.1.1

              27 July 2017 at 4:09 pm

              Fair enough.

              It’s not my intention to slag them off, btw: I just wish they’d pick a handle and stick with it, or alternatively, somehow disconnect from the weird Borg melange and say something startling or original.
              • In Vino …

                27 July 2017 at 5:46 pm

                I share the same suspicions as OAB. But when I saw it was not a good thing to your mind (Weka) I stopped saying so.. Yet I feel some injustice… One intuitively notices such things, but one would have to have huge intuition to start collecting up examples in advance, Impossible, in fact. Unless one is so dedicated as to spend days going back over previous posts.
                So the Sock Puppets get away with what they are doing? Not that I can think of a way for Lprent or anybody to prevent it in the first place.
                The last thing these bastards will do is pick a handle and stick with it, so we appear to be left with tolerating their foul behaviour.

                Maybe we need something like Universities etc. use to try to detect plagiarism?
    • McFlock 13.4

      27 July 2017 at 2:30 pm

      Maybe acrophobic went to the same college for dunces.

      I do quite like when they start contradicting themselves, though. Can be quite entertaining.
14. Rondo Rowling 14

    27 July 2017 at 1:08 pm

    My five cents worth is regarding Mr Winston Peters and my reflection on the happier times and frivolity enjoyed by many.

    His latest round in session regarding Te Reo (Mr Flavell) has probably just created more friction for him.

    I would be fine for a Maori interpreter to be present in session if and when various MP’s choose not to recognise the occasional use of Te Reo on the rare occasions when other MP’s feel the need to use it.

    It is an absolute shame to be repeatedly presented with the effigy of a pathetic figure that once, whether liked or not, used his wit, charm and recognised strengths
    to woo many, and to at least entertain the many (like myself) who did not always see his all of his vision in much the same way as he did.

    This man used to mean something to a lot of people, and although I was never one to fully support him or his party, it didn’t matter. I saw that which many seek and expect from their elected representatives, which is, at the very least, strength and a demonstration of real concern.

    I am almost brought to tears to see what a broken man he has developed himself in to.

    I prey that this emulation of some blind Don Quixote figure is some form of ploy or diversionary tactic, and that he might pull a rarebit out from his sleeve at the eleventh hour, not because I necessarily support his policy proposals, but because every person needs some form of encouragement when they believe that their performance matters.

    I do so not because I particularly love the man, but because a once liked public figure with his dignity destroyed is a sad event for any nation.

    It appears that he is fixated on “adjusting” intending resident and migrant/transient worker figures to some mystical idealised mathematical sum or product, (as if he has been peering in to some crystal ball and has received industry workforce projections from whence)

    Factually, this immigration “numbers game” has already been played time and time again by various politicians for decades, and where the smarter ones know full well that such gaming is no longer bread and butter politicking, but simply a distraction which might only gain them a handful more of votes, but where they risk it hitting them on the back of the head also unless they are very careful about just how and when to apply such statistical wizardry.

    More recognisable is that he has put so much effort in to responding to various media groups who see him as little more than entertainment value for their own game of cat and mouse that he loses sight of the ball, and so, walks right in to the media trap time and time again.

    He is considered by many as not much more than a ranter and a wishful drunkard these days, commentary that for a person, who used to represent value in one form or another, is quite cruel, and very sad.

    Many now liken him to Muldoon before his maiden departure speech.

    Some from north of Auckland who once had admiration for him now express that they feel betrayed, and that they have a desire to take him out and give him an education while he is on one of his whistle stop journeys over the next two or three weeks. I hope that they are referring to a discussion over dinner or lunch.

    Surely, he must be seen to still have some value, and must also be worthy of some respect?
    • Robert Guyton 14.1

      27 July 2017 at 1:10 pm

      Cool, Rondo. More 10 cents than 5.
    • Penny Bright 14.2

      27 July 2017 at 4:08 pm

      Credit where it’s due.

      25 years ago Winston Peters exposed corporate tax fraud through the ‘Winebox’?

      Remember that?
      • In Vino 14.2.1

        27 July 2017 at 5:48 pm

        But is he now self-destructing?
        • McFlock 14.2.1.1

          27 July 2017 at 6:09 pm

          I don’t think so – playing to a particular set, I think.
          • In Vino 14.2.1.1.1

            27 July 2017 at 8:51 pm

            If so, I can’t say that I wish him luck.
15. greywarshark 15

    27 July 2017 at 1:57 pm

    Health, costs and older people:
    Dunedin can’t keep up with the numbers requiring heart surgery, by-pass etc. How many of these are over 70 years. How many years of life in a healthy mobile and good mental state can justify spending high health $s on people over 70? 5 years, 10 years? The continual extension of life for old people is excessive care at a time when the very young aren’t treated in a timely fashion, and younger people are suffering disease or not being urgently assisted to get back to work, helped from being invalided for long periods.

    And is there reasonable care for those who are in poor health, and just need care and attention and cleaning help and kindly overview to the end? I have heard it is very poor, perhaps depending on which DHB is most monetarily stretched.

    http://www.health.govt.nz/nz-health-statistics/health-statistics-and-data-sets/new-zealand-burden-diseases-injuries-and-risk-factors-study
    Morbidity (ill health) is expanding

    We may be living longer, and living longer in good health, but we are also living longer in poor health.

    Put another way, only 70–80% of the years of life gained over the past quarter century have been years lived in good health: our health system and wider society have proved more adept at preventing early death than at avoiding or ameliorating morbidity.

    A greater focus on addressing the impact of non-fatal disabling conditions, whether through prevention or improved management, will enable people to live more of their ‘extra’ years of life in full health.

    Graphs:
    http://www.health.govt.nz/nz-health-statistics/health-statistics-and-data-sets/older-peoples-health-data-and-stats

    Rising use 42% of health stats for 15% of population and residential care:
    http://www.health.govt.nz/nz-health-statistics/health-statistics-and-data-sets/older-peoples-health-data-and-stats/dhb-spending-services-older-people

    Some stats that need to be looked at in order to provide appropriate health services for different ages.

    [You wanna do us a favour GWS? You had a previous handle associated with the email you use. I’m picking that if you revert back to that handle (begins with a ‘P’ in case you’ve forgotten) then you won’t get caught in spam all of the time and you’ll also be able to sign into the site. Give it a go, aye?] – Bill
16. One Anonymous Bloke 16

    27 July 2017 at 2:05 pm

    You may remember making a similar moderation note under one of Maninthemiddle’s comments (or perhaps one of their other sockpuppets) a while back. I don’t think they ever responded, and now here’s “Norfolk Traveller” using the same tactics employing exactly the same language.

    What an interesting coincidence. Just saying.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
17. WILD KATIPO 17

    27 July 2017 at 3:11 pm

    ET’s… this in the NZ Herald today…

    ‘ But now scientists have discovered that we are all actually part-alien.

    According to US astrophysicists up to half of all matter in our Milky Way galaxy comes from distant areas in space, driven here on interstellar winds created when stars explode in spectacular supernovae.

    Now scientists suspect each one of us is made, in part, from matter created when suns exploded in distant galaxies.’

    hmmmm.
    • Cinny 17.1

      27 July 2017 at 5:04 pm

      Sounds like stardust, how incredible is nature, that’s freaking amazing.

      Recently came across Dr. Steven Greer, really interesting outlook, his documentaries seem to be well researched. Fascinating perspective.
      • WILD KATIPO 17.1.1

        28 July 2017 at 12:02 am

        You are onto it , Cinny ,…. now,… have a watch of a few of Gary Wayne’s ‘Genesis 6 ‘ ( you tube ) , he has a book , which I bought ,… it’ll explain a lot and make sense of where we are today and why.

        Dr Stephen Greer is quite amazing but I believe he has gone down the wrong path in some quarters as of late , however his ‘ Disclosure Project ‘ brought together some hard hitting high official witness testimony . He is another important watch , particularly the ‘ Disclosure Project ‘ on you tube.

        For those who wouldn’t have a clue what this is all about,…. here is the Disclosure Project :

        The Disclosure Project – YouTube
        Video for disclosure project youtube▶ 1:55:21
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb8-FGdPQzc
18. Penny Bright 18

    27 July 2017 at 4:43 pm

    Ah – the real reason why Gareth Morgan is standing?

    Seen this?

    Tweet by Gareth Morgan:

    “Let’s be clear, for progressive voters, the major issue this election isn’t #ChangeTheGovt it is #AnyoneButWinston #nzpol
    • Sabine 18.1

      27 July 2017 at 4:58 pm

      what ever the wanker sprouts to make him relevant.

      he should go and cuddle some kittens.
19. North 19

    27 July 2017 at 4:53 pm

    Hosking ?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/26/bbc-apologises-after-tory-donor-insults-jeremy-corbyn?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=236760&subid=15166303&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2
    • Cinny 19.1

      27 July 2017 at 5:11 pm

      Oh SNAP!!!

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