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Open mike 27/11/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 27th, 2012 - 72 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

72 comments on “Open mike 27/11/2012 ”

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  1. LynW 1
    27 November 2012 at 6:42 am

    The opportunity to make a stand and what do they do?

    Hobbit critics will walk red carpet

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10850183

    • rosy 1.1
      27 November 2012 at 7:22 am

      It’s not so much about making a stand – if they didn’t turn up who would notice? But by turning up they lose the legitimacy to take on the government for selling out workers and the country. It makes it seem they’re in for the goodies and were just complaining for the sake of it.

    • karol 1.2
      27 November 2012 at 7:49 am

      I notice that no Green MPs are going:

      The Green Party also criticised National at the time and a spokeswoman said none of its MPs were going.

      Note: Lynn, the blockquote button on WYSISYG is still not working correctly using a chrome browser. Always have to correct it manually in HTML.

    • marsman 1.3
      27 November 2012 at 8:54 am

      Scumbag Jackson having another go with his lying bullshit about the actors’ union protest.

      Misunderstanding behind Hobbit spat – Peter Jackson… | Stuff.co.nz

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/8002142/Misunderstanding-in-Hobbit-spat

      • BM 1.3.1
        27 November 2012 at 9:05 am

        That was close.

        Luckily JK stepped in and saved the day.

        • Colonial Viper 1.3.1.1
          27 November 2012 at 9:09 am

          Giving public subsidies to a half-billionaire’s work project very worthwhile. Must help out corporate mates at any cost to the country.

          • BM 1.3.1.1.1
            27 November 2012 at 9:28 am

            You guys keep attacking the new Ed Hillary.
            Strategies like this and Labour’s a cert for 2014.

            • Dave 1.3.1.1.1.1
              27 November 2012 at 9:32 am

              The new Ed Hilary? For making quite a few excellent movies, as opposed to climbing Everest and being a lifelong philanthropist and all around good guy who stayed mostly out of politics and will provide an excellent example to youngsters for years to come. To compare those two shows you are grasping at straws. I don’t think I ever want to see someone on a banknote for just making a movie.

              Sort out a real example of he is the next of, then come back and talk with the grown ups buddy.

              • BM …
                27 November 2012 at 9:47 am

                He’s the most famous NZ out there at the moment.
                Ask any one in the country and most of the world who Peter Jackson is and I’d be surprised if they’d never heard of him.
                Everything you hear about Jackson is positive, the movies he made, the jobs and opportunities he’s created, etc, for many many people the guy is a real inspiration, came from a humble back ground to being one of the most powerful movie directors in the world.
                You’d have to be a complete fucking idiot to think your on to a winning strategy attacking the man,

                That makes him the new Ed Hillary, has nothing to do climbing mountains or giving away money, bozo

                • locus …
                  27 November 2012 at 10:06 am

                  Great skill and famous yes… but the talent is not the man.

                  If Ed Hilary had played the manipulative games played by SIR peter would the world have half the respect?

                • Dave …
                  27 November 2012 at 10:14 am

                  Really?? I was not attacking him in any way, just pointing out that your comparison is off by a fair way, Ed Hilary has had a far larger impact on NZ life and identity than Peter Jackson has at this time. In time he could very well take the place of Kate Shepard or Ed Hilary on one of our bank notes, but not now.

                  His scaremongering was smoke and mirrors on behalf of big money, why can’t our film actors have decent work conditions? [enter Planet Key line here]

                • beatie …
                  27 November 2012 at 11:11 am

                  Jackson is a greedy manipulator who makes tedious, bloated Hollywood crap.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    27 November 2012 at 11:54 pm

                    And benefits financially from being the member of at least 3 different unions, including the screenwriters guild.

                    At the same time he prevents NZ workers from getting similar protections and benefits from unions.

                    Basically he’s hypocritical scum more interested in adding to his half billion horde and getting bonuses from Corporate Hollywood, than giving NZ actors the same treatment as foreign actors working here.

    • locus 1.4
      27 November 2012 at 10:02 am

      bunch of twits – don’t they have a political bone in their bodies?

    • aerobubble 1.5
      27 November 2012 at 2:04 pm

      Nz competitive advantage in films comes in part its de-unionized film industry, so of course National wanted to stamp its brand on giving the Hobbit more money due to the high dollar which was likely to have killed off the Hobbit movie. But National media buddies can’t say that either less other industries want handouts for the high dollar. So it all gets quite creepy how the media, government and even critics tippy toes around the issues.

      Its not the only news story like that, you could say media is more story than news in NZ.

      Take the policy of Labour in not fighting for kiwis in OZ, where kiwi and aussie tax payers would fund welfare just for aussies. And no, its not about the much smaller proportion of Australians on welfare in NZ that got the Australians uppity, since Australians working in NZ would be paying into welfare for both Australians and Kiwis, since they bring back their money to OZ and not staying to go on welfare!!! All in all it was just the NZ Labor government that wanted to lower wages in NZ by making it harder to move across to OZ. Its a stupid policy because the whole point of open borders is to help both countries reach multiplier effects, fancy that, NZ back stabbing kiwis at home and in OZ just to ???for what??? so that NZ Labour could justify beanie bashing. But even that did not make sense, since it takes money, risk, to jump the ditch to look for work, and then to have NZ government turn around and say they moved over there to get on welfare, that’s just stupid, what proprtion of people moved to Australia to become bums??? The real problem in OZ was that there was systemic discrimination against pacific looking people because Australia has a long history of institutionalize racism.

      And so why don’t we talk about that? Because our media elite are a bunch of feckless arsewipes indoctrinated into the belief that to say anything adverse about people in the limelight (over a serious issue is forbidden). That’s why Nz turd blossums are so excessive and ubiquitious.

      • prism 1.5.1
        27 November 2012 at 11:26 pm

        aerobubble

        All in all it was just the NZ Labor government that wanted to lower wages in NZ by making it harder to move across to OZ. Its a stupid policy because the whole point of open borders is to help both countries reach multiplier effects, fancy that, NZ back stabbing kiwis at home and in OZ just to ???for what???

        I think you’re way off the beam there aerobubble. There are various reasons that Labour could have considered when not making too much of a fuss but I don’t think that forcing down labour costs was one of them.

        • aerobubble 1.5.1.1
          28 November 2012 at 12:28 pm

          But you agree that the policy, by making it hard to move to OZ, would increase pressure on Kiwis to take less well paying jobs (and increase the pool of people working in NZ)?

          I can not read Helen Clarks mind any better than you, I have to say its pretty obvious
          something was amiss, systemic racism against pacific looking peoples would naturally
          carry over into the Maori Kiwi population in Australia, raising their prospects of claiming
          welfare. The NZ instead of supporting their citizens in NZ, Labour some how got the
          Australian government to ignore that patently obvious, that Kiwi’s working in the NZ
          economy would be supporting welfare for Australians but not themselves, that somehow
          Kiwi’s employed and worked owed some duty to other kiwis (to invoke personal responsibility
          on kiwis who moved to Australia to pull their fingers out).

          So it was way off beam of me for me to consider that Labour would have not considered
          the effects of the policy on the NZ economy and wages, that by increasing the disincentives to moving over the ditch, they were dealing to the skills drought at home (where companies are unwilling to lift wages but rather want governments to intervene on their behalf to drive down wages).

          We did not get huge debts because people willing took them on, they took them on because wages weren’t keeping up and governments were reducing the cost of borrowing money while dumbing down the housing industry to stimulate a boom in housing prices. People thought they were richer, they could loosen their borrowing belts as they had more capital, all due to both Labour and National working against the interests of kiwis in NZ, and now it looks like in Australia TOO!

  2. Dv 2
    27 November 2012 at 6:57 am

    With the latest Novopay debacle Foss has just announced that the system is to be “sold” to Lotto.

    This will give more security to teachers pay he was heard to mutter.

    • higherstandard 2.1
      27 November 2012 at 7:13 am

      A great example of willful, gross incompetence.

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/7995518/Novopay-launch-reckless-when-trial-showed-system-not-ready

      If we had a useful parliamentary opposition perhaps less of this kind of debacle would occur.

      • One Tāne Huna 2.1.1
        27 November 2012 at 7:31 am

        Yes, because it’s not like ministers should be accountable, or competent, is it?

        What else did you expect from a bunch of right wing morons?

        Apologies for the tautology.

      • BM 2.1.2
        27 November 2012 at 8:23 am

        I don’t think having a decent opposition would have helped, from what I’ve read this has been pretty much a MOE run project with very little input from the Minister

        http://fyi.org.nz/request/409/response/3014/attach/html/3/OIA%20Release%20to%20Julie%20Fairey%2010%20September%202012.pdf.html

        • Colonial Viper 2.1.2.1
          27 November 2012 at 8:56 am

          Minister with head buried in the sand will have very little input.

          Especially to a MoE who’s staff she has helped to decimate and demoralise.

        • AsleepWhileWalking 2.1.2.2
          27 November 2012 at 9:30 am

          That makes me very angry. This is public money, paid to public servants. It isn’t ok to try and claim that minister’s are not responsible regards of how little input THE MINISTER DECIDED to have or not have.

          Avoiding media is the ultimate insult that a minister for any portfolio can make. I hope that the media (specifically Campbell Live) start to give substantial air time to opposition MP’s to talk about the issues.

          • McFlock 2.1.2.2.1
            27 November 2012 at 12:02 pm

            yep.
                   
            We have great leaders in this country – as long as they refuse to read or be told about anything, and avoid making any decisions, they can’t be held accountable for incompetence in the ministry that they’ve mismanaged.

        • locus 2.1.2.3
          27 November 2012 at 10:27 am

          a complete change in payroll provider…. yeah what kind of Minister would have any kind of interest in ensuring that their Ministry employees would be getting paid properly

          • ianmac 2.1.2.3.1
            27 November 2012 at 10:37 am

            Ultimately a person at the top must have given the Go-ahead. CEO? Minister? Someone must have decided. Who?

            • BM 2.1.2.3.1.1
              27 November 2012 at 10:39 am

              Chris Carter.

              • Dv …
                27 November 2012 at 11:19 am

                BM the Nats are in charge now.

                • BM …
                  27 November 2012 at 11:26 am

                  Carter is the one who signed up Nova pay.

                  • McFlock …
                    27 November 2012 at 12:09 pm

                    Tolley and Parata completely failed to oversee the process for four straight years. An abject failure to ask even the most simple questions about a complete system change in the child education sector. Akin to a captain failing to ask the navigator where the ship is going and whether those rocky shoals are in the way.
                            
                    But a Labour guy signed the original contract with an experienced vendor so it’s Labour’s fault?
                            
                    Bullshit Merchant. 

                    • McFlock …
                      27 November 2012 at 1:20 pm

                      So if I build a perfectly fine car, sell it to you, and you pull donuts, over-rev it and refuse to do any maintenance, the flat tyre or other failure that occurs years later is my fault?
                             
                      It’s getting a bit late to still keep blaming Labour, BM. Sooner or later you’ll have to face the fact that the shit-pudding the ministers are splashing around the cabinet table is of their own making.

                    • BM …
                      27 November 2012 at 1:26 pm

                      In defence of Carter, Tolley and Parata I doubt any of them has anything but rudimentary computer knowledge(shame Claire Curran wasn’t available at the time),

                      So no doubt they were relying pretty heavily on the MOE to do the job properly and take care of the technical side of this development.

                    • McFlock …
                      27 November 2012 at 2:56 pm

                      My (large) employer runs Talent2 payroll system with no problems. 
                            
                      Yeah, keep trying to blame Labour. 
                              
                      It’s not computer literacy that’s the issue, it’s management literacy. Upgrading systems isn’t like buying groceries at the supermarket. The person in charge needs to constantly monitor activity, ask questions about how it will work in practise, and if it looks like a system won’t be ready in time or is unsuited (as apparently was the case prior to rollout) have the guts to postpone full implementation.
                             
                      Talent2 are perfectly capable of developing payroll systems, but they’re private enterprise: if the specs are inadequate and the oversight is poor, they will do the minimum amount possible for the maximum amount of money.
                               
                      If Carter had indeed signed with a company that was incapable of delivering, then a competent minister would have had this reported to them by a competent CEO, and they would have cancelled the contract, sued for damages due to inadequate work, and tendered someone else to do the job. 
                           
                      But no – the system is rolled out even when the test phase failed dismally. 

                    • muzza …
                      27 November 2012 at 9:53 pm

                      LOL – all this illustrates is the continuity of the agenda, and how stupid people attempt to ignore it.

                      BM is spot on, Chris Carter , easily one of the most compromised mps ever, used to sign up novo, while his arm was up his back!

                      Labour signed it up, National ran with it…its the standard M.O!

                      How to know Carter was bent, other than his ripping off Kiwi taxpayers, and still is now – He went to work for the UN, where only the most crooked end up..

                    • McFlock …
                      27 November 2012 at 10:51 pm

                      you’re more delusional than bm

                  • Dv …
                    27 November 2012 at 12:22 pm

                    Bm the nats are in charge and have been for four years.

  3. mickysavage 3
    27 November 2012 at 7:48 am

    So Professor Claire Robinson has found evidence of bias in the presentation of leaders Key and Goff in last year’s general election.  Apparently Key had more favorable text and photos than Goff. The Herald’s bias was particularly noticeable.

    Who would have thunk it? 

    • karol 3.1
      27 November 2012 at 8:17 am

      I was trying to remember if Claire Robinson was the same persona who appears on TV commenting on politics with a rightwards lean…?  Looks like it.

      So she had to do some research to discover something that is pretty obvious to most who follow the news closely. 

      • insider 3.1.1
        27 November 2012 at 8:25 am

        Labour deliberately played down Goff and his image (no pics on billboards) while the nats built their campaign almost solely on key, which labour supported by targeting his character.

        Maybe its just a case of You reap the headlines and images you sow

        • Lanthanide 3.1.1.1
          27 November 2012 at 9:49 am

          That might explain fewer items of coverage, but the images of Key also tended to be larger than those of Goff. So I don’t think that really jibes as an explanation.

      • David H 3.1.2
        27 November 2012 at 8:29 am

        Gotta justify that pay packet some how!

      • mickysavage 3.1.3
        27 November 2012 at 9:43 am

        From memory she worked in Jenny Shipley’s office in the 1990s.  This makes her conclusions even more remarkable.

      • McFlock 3.1.4
        27 November 2012 at 12:14 pm

        research is necessary, otherwise it’s just anecdata vs anecdata.
           
        Key can counter an opinion with his opinion. When he counters actual research with his opinion, he looks like a wee bit of a dick to a few more voters every time. 

    • muzza 3.2
      27 November 2012 at 8:59 am

      And the country would be better off how exactly, or the outcome would have changed the course for NZ in a positive direction, um, no!

      Straws, clutching, nah dropped it!

    • KhandallaMan 3.3
      27 November 2012 at 9:55 am

      Could it be used as a basis for a complaint to the Press Council?

      Perhaps some blogger who was previously gone down that route could give us an opinion? 

       http://www.presscouncil.org.nz/

  5. Rogue Trooper 5
    27 November 2012 at 8:58 am

    Road to Nowhere?Talking Heads?
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10850138
    (people may need to carry their houses on their backs)

    -Real People Party

    • locus 5.1
      27 November 2012 at 10:14 am

      the question is why debate the sharing out of a paltry public transport budget when the real issue is that NZ should be committing 10 times as much to these projects and would still win hands down in the long run

  6. Penny Bright 6
    27 November 2012 at 10:18 am

    NEW ZEALAND -‘PERCEIVED’ TO BE ‘THE LEAST CORRUPT COUNTRY IN THE WORLD’ – yeah right.

    Where do the corrupt store their ‘ill-gotten’ gains / bribes / ‘dirty’ money? 

    In TAX HAVENS.

    Like New Zealand.

    http://www.taxhavens.biz/other_tax_havens/tax_haven_new_zealand/

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com 

  7. Rogue Trooper 7
    27 November 2012 at 10:52 am

    True Story: Once were warriors.
    lovely maori man actively seeking work.regularly rings up former boss who keeps him hanging…
    through word of mouth, at church, is led to and offered a position operating a waste removal truck
    (not a Love Removal Machine, Edie).

    Persevering with a very grubby occupation this man walks with God.

    Two phenomena become apparent to him;
    1, he is treated rudely and dominated for expressing his Christian faith
    2, entrenched racially biased attitudes (rednecks).

    anyway, he relates to me how following difficulties with equipment (stone blocked pump) there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth by the Boss; this is during his 4th week, yet once task learned
    problem solved

    Following day, called back to work after departing for home, and let go with the excuse that they
    “didn’t want a labourer”
    (interestingly, they continue to employ a “mate” in his sixties who is unable to achieve relative
    productivity due to life-style health complications).

    Now, because I was unsettled during my earlier years and over the course of my employment history
    I have worked in and observed the cultural environments of a wide range of fields,
    from digging ditches to occupational therapy and many things in between.

    If NAct and the mainstream employers think that what passes for general employment culture in
    Aotearoa is acceptable, then they are dreaming. Even at Watties, they are screwing the unions, and
    no amount of “food fucker” (excuse my french) is going to take away the greasy taste.

    U think you know me? I am an ethnographer. I know you. Stop fighting yourself=Embrace Others

    -Bull Dozer (Mask; “somebody stop me” 😉 )

  8. Rogue Trooper 8
    27 November 2012 at 10:54 am

    Black Jack Davey-The White Stripes cover

  10. Penny Bright 10
    27 November 2012 at 1:42 pm

    FYI folks!

    27 November 2012: News from CPAG
     
    Child-poverty documentary a ‘must-see’

    Child Poverty Action Group says a ground-breaking documentary on child poverty in New Zealand is compulsory viewing for all New Zealanders.

    Multi-award winning producer and presenter Bryan Bruce’s Inside Child Poverty documentary will re-screen on TV3 tonight at 9.30pm.

    CPAG spokesperson, Associate Professor Mike O’Brien said,

    “We are delighted that TV3 is re-screening this documentary.  It has played a significant role in raising the issue of child poverty in New Zealand.  We believe it is a must-see for all New Zealanders.

    “As the documentary says, New Zealanders are good people and we can fix this problem if we choose to.  No child in New Zealand should be hungry, cold or ill due to preventable disease. 

    Child poverty is not a party political issue; it is a moral and ethical issue.  Our politicians need to know that New Zealanders do want to invest in children and their future.”
    Featured in the documentary is CPAG’s ongoing fight for the rights of 230,000 children through legal channels.

    The case is to be heard in Court of Appeal in early 2013. CPAG urgently needs funds to support their action: seehttp://www.cpag.org.nz/infocus/ 
    http://www.cpag.org.nz 

     

     

  11. felix 11
    27 November 2012 at 1:59 pm

    Couple of minutes til the house sits and Shearer gets torn to bits by Key.

    Again.

    *sigh*

  12. Jackal 12
    27 November 2012 at 3:00 pm

    Business as usual for fracking industry

    On the whole the interim report is highly disappointing, weak, disjointed and not very thorough. Unfortunately the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment omits some very relevant and important aspects to the fracking debate and cherry-picks what information is included. Jan Wright also seems to think that a moratorium on fracking isn’t required because the oil and gas industry will somehow magically clean up its act… Yeah right!

  13. Rogue Trooper 13
    27 November 2012 at 4:51 pm

    Walkabout (film)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkabout_(film)
    anyway,
    off I went into town. Now if the neo-liberal wannabees think they are pulling the wool over the
    general public’s eyes, they have got another thing coming, unless they are cushioned in some cacoon
    of silk spun by the low and working classes.It is all about synthesizing corresponding information; in
    addition, to the MSM fog you check out the alternative press. Then, check out a bit of audio-visual
    and check with the people on the ground (if the politicians think that people who opine on blogs are
    not representative of the wider consensus of aware people, then more fool them; I personally know heaps of people, although I do tend to avoid the middle class and above).Like, just in the Supermarket I had conversations with three people who know me and a few more that I now know 🙂
    First, to correlate with MSM report on budget rationalisations at DHB, receptionist, (who has learned more about efficiency and IT in a year than the NAct government departments appear to have in a couple of terms) reported deficiencies in Doctor funding and utilisation disrupting service delivery.

    Second, at my second favourite, second hand bookshop, I had a spontaneous chat with the owner.
    S. is widely read and has a family with 3 teenage children (loves the Russian writers also, Pasternak
    participantly-observed torture during the Soviet years from a small closet).S reads the guardian and
    comments regularly; I have introduced her to the concept of The Standard and she is going to check
    it out (remember human motivations?) trinity is one, just culture.

    anyway, we got to discussing the times and she was in 100% concurrence that the capitalism project
    has reached it’s use-by-date according to a wide range of sources; it has floundered and beached; Beached as Bro’!

    S. also was in agreement with the insidious role played by MSM in shaping personal culture and her
    family had found and benefited from discarding the television. I asked her about her opinion of JM
    who was presently on RNZ; couldn’t be botherd with him she asserted.

    Check out The Mekons; “Millionaire”
    🙂

  14. Treetop 14
    27 November 2012 at 5:45 pm

    Yesterday afternoon on Newstalk zb charities were discussed. A woman from New York emailed in and said that the Mayor of New York would not accept food donations because of the salt content.

    I cannot think of a valid reason for not accepting non perishable food donations and would like to know what the reason is.

    Possibly could be sued were the blood pressure to rise.

    If the woman was taking the piss out of the topic I have been taken in.

  15. Rogue Trooper 15
    27 November 2012 at 6:03 pm

    some Good;Oil
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferiority_complex
    rattle the cage and ‘Break them rusty chains…’
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adlerian_psychology

    -woof (wanna’ bit a Mongrel in ya?)

  16. muzza 16
    27 November 2012 at 9:12 pm

    Terrorist responsible for NZ deaths killed

    Hold on a second, are we not providing support to an occupation/invasion of that country…

    Who is the terrorists becomes questionable, but you gotta love the NZ media for really drawing the long bow, and milking the propganda for dear life!

  17. Rogue Trooper 17
    27 November 2012 at 9:44 pm

    Oh well, here are a few biases to get bound up in, or not
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_biases_in_judgment_and_decision_making
    best to tell the truth.less “stories” to remember 🙂

  18. Rogue Trooper 18
    27 November 2012 at 9:57 pm

    mitigation. My Lord
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias_mitigation

    Intelligent are we?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence

    we may all be, people certainly change
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences

    -Gardener (reaching the ‘g’ spot; these Edwardian media commentators are so “old hat”) 🙂

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