Open mike 28/05/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 28th, 2023 - 37 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

37 comments on “Open mike 28/05/2023 ”

  1. bwaghorn 1

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/132153124/national-doesnt-care-about-ai-wait-til-it-starts-mocking-them

    There needs to be a cross party moratorium on all a1 content in politics and elections, with severe penalties for any person or entity faking and content to with politicians and political parties

    • tWiggle 1.1

      Elon pulls twitter out of voluntary EU code on removal of election mis-disinfo in EU. Free speech and all that. With the election faff in Türkiye and his skylink satellites, who needs the US military industrial complex anymore to shape the world stage? One man and his tech is all it takes.

  2. Sanctuary 2

    Reports of the death of patriarchal values may be premature.

    https://twitter.com/CinC_AFU/status/1662451731261796353

    • SPC 2.1

      Patriarchal values.

      1Valdimir GD of Kiev converting his followers to Christianity so he can marry the Byzantine Emperors daughter.

      2KGB operative of the USSR, Vladimir Putin, on becoming President – returns the Russian Orthodox Church to the state cult role it had under the Tsar's. And then receives support from it for the actions in Ukraine. And to pose Putin as a champion of white race Christian identity nationalism.

      3.Is defence of the nation state (and multi-lateral collective security) really patriarchy in action? Or resistance to abuse of power/acts of aggression?

      You see the concept of patriarchy, is hierarchy, not democratic equality and a rules based society order (within and between nations).

      Which is why Charles 2nd to Oliver Cromwell changed nothing.

  3. miravox 3

    Arrgh Warning – will not be worth the click

    Damien Grant taking the 'moral and competency' highground?! on Stuff's home page

    “Chris Hipkins fails both the moral and competency tests of a PM

    OPINION: Hipkins had achieved almost nothing by the time he entered Parliament, and in the 15 years since has left nought but a trail of mistakes and missed opportunities.”

    • weka 3.1

      link please.

      • alwyn 3.1.1

        The link is https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/132157503/damien-grant-chris-hipkins-fails-the-moral-and-competence-tests-to-be-pm

        I think the paper's editor will get a very hard rap over the knuckles for letting this story get into the paper. This really isn't like their standard of We love Chippie.

        • bwaghorn 3.1.1.1

          Written by a convicted fraudster act fan boy, it's hardly surprising its biased

          • alwyn 3.1.1.1.1

            I can't see how your conclusion follows. Besides, I am a person who believes that people can reform and make something useful of their lives.

            Peter Fraser did a year in jail of course. Then, about 25 years later he made an excellent war leader for New Zealand. The best Labour PM we've ever had in fact. His objections to conscription obviously had vanished by 1940.

            Reading Grant's article seemed to me to be a perfectly fair evaluation of Hipkin's record. He has, in fact, failed at everything he has attempted. It only surprised me that Stuff had published it.

            • bwaghorn 3.1.1.1.1.1

              As act and its supporters think tax is theft I doubt grant is reformed, he was just dumb enough to get caught,

            • SPC 3.1.1.1.1.2

              Having a left wing principle of not fighting in an imperial war was seen as sedition (the working class left in the UK was offered the vote in return for fighting – the locals already had the vote).

              Fraser's support for conscription in WW2 was based on left wingers being prepared to fight right wing fascists to defend democracy.

              https://nzhistory.govt.nz/future-prime-minister-peter-fraser-charged-with-sedition

              • alwyn

                Sorry mate but if you are going to oppose conscription to fight a war that you do not approve of you have to oppose it for wars you are in favour of or else you are a hypocrite.

                The other way is like the people who approve of free speech only when the person is going to say something they approve of. If you want free speech it also has to apply to people who are saying things you don't like. The is true for approving or disapproving of conscription. If you oppose it in one situation but not in another you are a fraud.

                • SPC

                  First the strawman

                  Claiming the right of conscientious objection is not the same thing as opposing conscription.

                  Then the rest of the spurious narative.

                  1Your argument makes no moral distinction between war of aggression, or self defence/security alliance.

                  Imperial power struggle, or collective security of democratic nation states.

                  This speaks to moral cause. Which is a principle within both religion and politics.

                  2There was religious exemption in WW1 (conscience) , why not a political one as well?

                  3The right of free speech is more synonymous with right of refusal to serve, than a requirement to serve.

                  4Religious and political freedom of speech and conscience should be seen as equivalent.

                  • alwyn

                    First we have your strawman. "conscientious objection". I never mentioned, nor talked about, conscientious objection.

                    Then you go into other things. "moral distinction" Just who do you think should have the right to make any such distinction?

                    When you allow such arguments as "I think this is a moral war" and therefore I can conscript you and send you off to kill, or be killed because I think it is a good thing to fight here but also "I don't think you should be allowed to conscript me" because I don't approve of this war you are allowing one person's moral views, those of the person in power, to override another person's, the resident of the state.

                    The person in power is then always right. Now tell me. Should the Pope be allowed to set the rules on abortion because his moral views don't allow it?

                    • SPC

                      I never mentioned, nor talked about, conscientious objection.

                      What we had was me noticing your failure to notice the difference between conscientious objection of an individual and government adopting a policy of conscription. As to Fraser's personal position in WW1 and later government policy in WW2 (and why Fraser's party supported that war is obvious).

                      Fraser exercised conscientious objection – however the government of that day did not recognise it because they only allowed it for those of religion, and so he was imprisoned. Their differentiation between religious and political objection was dubious.

                      When you allow such arguments as "I think this is a moral war" and therefore I can conscript you and send you off to kill, or be killed because I think it is a good thing to fight here but also "I don't think you should be allowed to conscript me" because I don't approve of this war you are allowing one person's moral views, those of the person in power, to override another person's, the resident of the state.

                      The person in power is then always right.

                      That is either an argument against conscription or one against imprisonment for failure to serve.

                      Today society tends to try and avoid that dilemma.

                      Should the Pope be allowed to set the rules on abortion because his moral views don't allow it?

                      Governance of nations is not determined by religious leaders, and thus the impact of their declarations on matters of doctrine and morality on society is in their behaviour and impact on their voting.

                      Those of their churches adhere, or they do not. Some Catholics have abortions, some use contraception and fertility services, some have sex before and outside of their marriages – and some do not do any of these things. Many Catholic run health services seek religious exemptions, as do some medical practitioners.

                • Gabby

                  No you don't. That makes no sense.

        • Chess Player 3.1.1.2

          Not a huge fan of Grant per se, but I'm not seeing anyone list out any great achievements from Hipkins

          • Mac1 3.1.1.2.1

            Try Google.

            I'm more surprise that no-one has challenged such a stupidly nonsensical statement as " He has, in fact, failed at everything he has attempted."

            Since the writer does use that phrase "in fact", I challenge him to read a Google summary of Hipkin's career and then justify his 'in fact" opinion.

  4. joe90 4

    Kissinger has hit 100. Fuck him.

    • Grey Area 4.1

      Dark. But funny.

      The Grim Reaper is only an agent of death. And you make a pact with the Devil … Kissinger may never die.

      And he probably doesn’t like salmon mousse.

  5. bwaghorn 5

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/132086947/investor-will-sell-fourth-property-if-labour-wins-and-buy-another-if-national-does

    The battle of the haves versus the have nots.

    Problem is the have nots don't generally vote in as high proportions

    “””National Party spokesman Chris Bishop had a simple justification for why the party would reinstate mortgage interest deductibility: “It’s a core principal of the tax system that you tax profits, not income.”

    Bishop mustn’t be aware of a little thing called income tax

    • newsense 5.1

      Investors get ready to harvest profits from the class war if National and rabble get in. Led by the man with 7 houses. The cutting of the fairly lame medium density accord should really set off violence, after the wealth transfer we’ve seen and the way young folk are marginalised in the process. But we’re a country that took the employment contract acts fairly civilly. We don’t fight like the Aussies do.

      NZ was fundamentally a property owning democracy. This corporate yank inspired lackey should end that notion.

    • SPC 5.2

      Lest we forget what Rogernomics was like

      In his last budget as Minister of Finance, Caygill lifted the quarantining of rental losses on rental on investment income, allowing an investor to offset losses on their investment property against their other taxable income.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Caygill

    • Adrian 5.3

      If Bishop said that then he is a Dickhead Beyond Belief.

  6. Alan 6

    Andrea Vance teases National about AI but then asks some serious questions regarding Labours' possible relationship with TMP.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/132153124/national-doesnt-care-about-ai-wait-til-it-starts-mocking-them

  7. joe90 7

    Never. Drink. The. Tea.

    Valery Tsepkalo, Belarusian opposition leader, said that after a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, the self-proclaimed President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko was taken to the Central Clinical Hospital of Moscow in critical condition.

    https://news.yahoo.com/president-belarus-hospitalised-meeting-putin-204642610.html

  8. CT the kiwi 8

    Anyone else ever wondered why pollitoomsns have to shout? Not anti Hlpkins. They all do. Been there and you can just talk.

  9. adam 9

    Ukraine looking more and more like a libertarian love fest. Act party must be wetting themselves. With all the drooling, before disgusting minds kick in.

    Kill lists for journalists the run from Kiev. The city that gave us the Church of St. Sofia. She'd understand, before she came a Christian. https://rokfin.com/LeeCamp

    Is it radically different from how pom's have journalist in HMP Belmarsh and slowly kill them?

    Hard to tell the truth in the middle of a war. Seems our leaders are not up to it.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 9.1

      Now THAT is a quality link! Direct from a comedian who had his last job with russian state propaganda channel RT. He certainly has some interesting "theories" on russia's brutal invasion of Ukraine.

      • adam 9.1.1

        I would have thought that he thinks it was a war crime, would have been the one you'd mention?

        So the real question is, you think he should be on a kill list as a comedian, because of what he has said? And all the other people?

  10. UncookedSelachimorpha 10

    The real question is, why would anyone listen to a russian propagandist?

    "I would have thought that he thinks it was a war crime,"

    …yeah right. Here is an interview with him, less than one month after russia sent its tanks across the border. Says "I am opposed to Russia's invasion, but…" and after these 7 words, spends paragraph after paragraph excusing and justifying russia's actions, blaming every other party than russia, then repeating ad nauseum all russia's fabricated nonsense about ukraine ("they're nazis!", "Ukraine biolabs!", "2014 was US coup!").

    Just another one of russia's useful idiots.