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Open mike 28/06/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 28th, 2020 - 189 comments
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189 comments on “Open mike 28/06/2020 ”

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  1. Dennis Frank 1
    28 June 2020 at 7:06 am

    Two academic heavyweights give Biden public advice: " Robert Alexander is a professor of political science and founding director of the Institute for Civics and Public Policy at Ohio Northern University. He is also the author of "Representation and the Electoral College." David B. Cohen is a professor of political science and assistant director of the Ray C. Bliss Institute of Applied Politics at The University of Akron." https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/26/opinions/three-women-who-should-be-at-the-top-of-bidens-vp-list-alexander-cohen/index.html

    Biden already made history by committing to choose a female running mate. Fortunately for him, there are a number of talented and experienced women who are legitimate contenders for the spot. We believe California Sen. Kamala Harris, Florida Rep. Val Demings and former National Security Adviser Susan Rice should be at the top of Biden's list.

    An emerging consensus is that Biden should select a woman of color. University of Virginia Professor Larry Sabato's Crystal Ball ranks all five of Biden's top vice presidential choices as women of color, with Harris, Demings, and Illinois Sen. Tammy Duckworth leading the way. USA Today's Jill Lawrence argues that Biden should choose either Harris or Demings.

    We concur with 538's Perry Bacon's assessment that choosing a Black woman is an important acknowledgment of both descriptive (how much a candidate looks like the electorate) and symbolic representation (how a candidate exemplifies an idea that resonates with the electorate). Such a choice would likely shore up positive perceptions of Biden among the Democratic base — a base riled by racial unrest and protests across the country. Failing to do so may dampen turnout among marginal voters that could prove costly in a close contest.

    Given the likelihood of Biden dying in office if elected president, the choice is critical. The one chosen must be able to retain public support via mana and competence. Healing the racial divide will take at least that, but the prospects of rebuilding goodwill on the basis of a renewal of ethos compel the right choice.

  2. Dennis Frank 2
    28 June 2020 at 7:14 am

    Greens enter govt in Ireland: "The three-way coalition of Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Green party is the first time the first two parties – former civil war rivals – have been in government together." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/27/micheal-martin-irish-taoiseach-coalition-fianna-fail-fine-gael

    Fine Gael’s leader and former taoiseach Leo Varadkar said the coalition’s formation marked the end of civil war politics in the Dáil. “I believe civil war politics ended a long time ago in our country, but today civil war politics ends in our parliament,” he said. “Two great parties coming together with another great party, the Green party, to offer what this country needs: a stable government for the betterment of our country and for the betterment of our world.”

    Sinn Féin responded with a conspiracy theory:

    The Sinn Féin president Mary Lou McDonald, whose party won the second-highest number of Dáil seats, said that Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael had conspired to exclude Sinn Féin from government.

    • ScottGN 2.1
      28 June 2020 at 8:18 am

      Cabinet posts have been divvied up along expected lines. Fine Gael getting the finance, justice, foreign affairs, economic development portfolios while Fianna Fáil gets the social stuff, education, health, housing plus ag & fish. Greens have done pretty well actually with 3 cabinet posts including environment, climate change, arts & culture, transport, youth & children.

      Martin and Varadkar will swap roles halfway through the term when Varadkar takes over as Taoiseach.

    • ScottGN 2.2
      28 June 2020 at 8:33 am

      By the way the election was way back at the beginning of February. It’s taken 4 & a half months to put the government together.
      You got to feel for Mary Lou McDonald she’s taken Sinn Fein almost into government.

      Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are like our Labour and National so it remains to be seen how well the coalition will go.

      • Dennis Frank 2.2.1
        28 June 2020 at 9:06 am

        Although they do actually have a Labour Party: it has 5 senators (same as Sinn Fein), Green Party only has two.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seanad_%C3%89ireann

        However in the more powerful elected lower house things are very different:

        Sinn Fein 37, Greens 12, Labour only 6.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1il_%C3%89ireann

        • ScottGN 2.2.1.1
          28 June 2020 at 9:44 am

          My (admittedly rather sketchy) understanding is that their Labour Party is more akin to our old Alliance under Anderton. Fianna Fáil is a broad church centrist, republican party; that split-off from Sinn Fein after that movement went all in for armed resistance. Fine Gael is the Conservative party in the same mould as National here or the Tories in the UK.

          • Dennis Frank 2.2.1.1.1
            28 June 2020 at 9:59 am

            Interesting. There's also the Social Democrats – due to an apparent necessity to fill the void between "broad church centrist, republican" and Labour.

            In May 2016, the party formed a technical group within the Dáil with the Green Party. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Democrats_(Ireland)

            A void so huge they have 6 members currently in the lower house. Very Irish.

    • swordfish 2.3
      28 June 2020 at 9:30 am

      Never a good sign for Major Parties when they're forced into a Grand Coalition by a dynamic Opposition Party on an upward trajectory.

      As for the Irish Greens … wiped out last time they went into Govt … support more than halved at the following Election … no TDs at all … about as welcome to Irish voters as a Baby Arctic Seal Vol-au-vent served at a Green Party Annual Conference.

      • Dennis Frank 2.3.1
        28 June 2020 at 9:49 am

        Would be good to have an explanation of the shift in voter views of them. A mix of negatives sufficient to overwhelm these positives?

        "In almost four years in Government, from 2007 to 2011, the Green Party contributed to the passage of civil partnership for same-sex couples, the introduction of major planning reform, a major increase in renewable energy output, progressive budgets, and a nationwide scheme of home insulation retrofitting." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Party_(Ireland)

        • greywarshark 2.3.1.1
          28 June 2020 at 10:57 am

          Edit
          All very interesting and perhaps we should be more Irish. They have been oppressed badly and still have spirit. We have been oppressed and seem to go into dour as a default. They worked like billy-oh to make their way and initiated the word 'navvies' short for those who dug out England's navigation canals for transporting production.

          We worked hard cutting down the forest in our own land for profit. The working man here found a voice in the Labour Party but that turned out to be more interested in being socially mobile, going up a class, and left its supporters behind. It has now to turn back from representing nature's despoilers targeting wealth, and return to its core role of acting for working people, and the underpaid and underemployed and find a way to get enterprise in NZ working for NZs providing for NZs needs, with some export as well, instead of the present reverse situation.

          Now Labour must combine with the Green Party in implementing policies good for us all. And for the strugglers; be about healthy housing same as when it began, and relating to the new Climate Change menace which has penetrated our consciousness with trepidation.

          If you listen to the Irish music it can be soulful but also the jigs really get everyone going, along with Irish whisky. Our music was more about gold-mining failures 'Farewell to the Gold' or a waltz, Save the Last Dance for Me. The Kokatahi Band played a mix of music that they remembered to bring some light and rest from toil, fuelled by beer and home-made spirit and refreshments. Then another lot of music crazed us up with rock and roll, and drugs. We had a chance to break the pattern of poor and drunken, rich and self-satisfied after WW2, but our horizons were too low. Now the size of the problem is huge but looking at how we can pull together to cope with Covid-19, this will likely act as a spur to carry the spirit further.

          Problems can be dealt to rather than crush us, so let's show Ireland we can do better, let's compete in a sporting fashion to have the best policies performing successfully like well-oiled machines, for all the people and the country. We should keep in touch with Ireland, is there a group uniting the two countries? We can learn from them, the jigs, the determination, the national closeness as in, 'If You're Irish come into the Parlour, There's a Welcome here for you'! We will say, 'Naumai, Haeremai' but with the same meaning and effect. Let's do it.

          • Gabby 2.3.1.1.1
            28 June 2020 at 11:11 am

            The group uniting the two countries would be all the dour Irishmenwomen who came out here and cut down our forests.

  3. Just Is 3
    28 June 2020 at 7:51 am

    According to Worldometer this morning, 10 million cases occurred overnight, both the US and Brazil recorded 42 thousand new cases each, the total death toll is now 500 thousand.

    Exponential increase in the infections rate and countries still not taking the virus seriously.

    Just more evidence that NZ has applied the best response to this pandemic of any country, we've got a Govt that has saved us from potentialy the worst disaster in any of our life times.

    We are the lucky country for having the Govt and response we've had, wake up NZ media, get your head out of the sand.

    • Robert Guyton 3.1
      28 June 2020 at 8:18 am

      As the situation deteriorates overseas the public here will have cast into clear definition, the foolish position taken by the National Party, Todd Muller and much of the media.

      • Ad 3.1.1
        28 June 2020 at 8:21 am

        Robert, are there courses in Riverton on your stuff that I can do?

        Got any links for accommodation and bookings in Riverton?

      • ScottGN 3.1.2
        28 June 2020 at 8:23 am

        Audrey Young in the Herald yesterday pretty much admitted that National’s best hope now is community transmission and a second wave of covid so they can call Jacinda a failure. Astonishingly cynical really.

        • tc 3.1.2.1
          28 June 2020 at 8:31 am

          Tawdrey lets the mask slip and out comes the 'power at all costs' even if that cost is kiwis lives. Cynicals not the word more like inhumane and a view that doesn’t get the airplay it deserves.

          MSM are lock step with nationals messaging as Joyce (Mr 20Bill hole that didn't exist) gets a pulpit in granny today and Judiths book will no doubt provide exposure through till sept GE.

          Remember that one the dark lords of DP is employed by them now with all his media contacts and all that money from swallowing rats gives them a lot of resources.

        • ScottGN 3.1.2.2
          28 June 2020 at 8:46 am

          Apparently testing rates have gone through the roof again in Auckland as people start to get nervous about covid again on the back of National’s scaremongering.

          • Gabby 3.1.2.2.1
            28 June 2020 at 9:35 am

            Well let's hope the ministry manage to keep track of how many, and passes accurate truthful info to the govt.

          • I Feel Love 3.1.2.2.2
            28 June 2020 at 10:20 am

            One would think after going through the unpleasant experience of being nose swabbed and being all clear they'd get a bit pissed off at the hysteria inducing media and opp party. My kids mum rang sick at her work and they asked her to go get tested, she said the test is absolutely awful.

          • Tricledrown 3.1.2.2.3
            28 June 2020 at 10:34 am

            Melbourne has second wave of Covid mostly from community Transmission.

            Also 30% of those leaving quarantine hotels refusing testing.

            National ,Hosking were pushing the Aussie version of partial lockdown.

            Muller claiming NZ was at fault for delay in Australia/NZ bubble.

            Now Victorian health authorities say this maybe the new normal ongoing community Transmission.

            • Gabby 3.1.2.2.3.1
              28 June 2020 at 11:08 am

              Tova will be interviewing the Horeskin about his expert opinion any .. moment.. now..

            • mpledger 3.1.2.2.3.2
              28 June 2020 at 12:42 pm

              IIRC three of the Oz states haven't had any cases for weeks so they may want to keep their borders closed to Victoria until community transmission ceases.

        • anker 3.1.2.3
          28 June 2020 at 11:03 am

          Just read 50,000 tests conducted in Ak of late , all negative. Slim hope then for the Nats. Shocking to think they are likely hoping for community transmission.

          Just read an article from the Daily Telegraph which quotes Michael Baker, saying he was the designer of the worlds most successful lockdown. Things aren't looking to great in Australia. I remember when we were in lockdown zooming friends over there and thinking theres was a pretty loose lockdown……

          I feel frightened about what all. this is going to mean for billions of people

        • Incognito 3.1.2.4
          28 June 2020 at 12:50 pm

          Politics of disaster is politics of fear and this never makes for good policy. This is consistent with the absence of coherent and detailed policy from National. It is also another reason why I’m happy-ish that the Government didn’t push for major reform, besides the fact that they should obtain a clear mandate for it and campaign on it.

      • Just Is 3.1.3
        28 June 2020 at 8:47 am

        Let's hope Robert, let's hope common sense prevails over manufactured scaremongering.

        • Robert Guyton 3.1.3.1
          28 June 2020 at 9:50 am

          It generally doesn't, Just Is. Instead, the dread generated by events in America, Brazil and so on, will overshadow the fear being stirred up by National et al and New Zealanders will reassess their views accordingly. I reckon.

    • Halfcrown 3.2
      28 June 2020 at 8:48 am

      Just In @3.1.2

      Well said Just In. Talking to a rabid brain dead Tory yesterday I got the impression that he was very bitter that we had no community transmission of the virus as it was more down to good luck than good management as this incompetent pack of no-hopers could not organise a piss up in a brewery. He wanted National to fix things. Yeah, like Mullet was screaming for letting students in and then in the next breath claim that we were letting the virus in and it was shambolic

      Not surprised really by his comments after the last week of hysteria lead by the pathetic excuse for shit house paper called the Herald.

      As I said to him I am very grateful for living in a country run by people who could not organise a piss up and their good luck, Sooner be here mate than some of these so-called countries where the right is soooo organised like Australia (held up as a sample how we should do it ) UK run by Bozo and top of the hit parade USA and Brazil run by pea brained ultra right wing fuckwits.

      • Just Is 3.2.1
        28 June 2020 at 9:26 am

        I get the impression that most Kiwis are aware of our success and why we've been successful, it's really only the rusted on Nat supporters making a lot of noise, many of those supporters are of course the media its self, I doubt wether ordinary Kiwis are interested in "tipping the baby out with the bath water" better off sticking with Govt that has got us to where we are today, history proves the Nats don't have what it takes in a natural disater, never did.

        • Halfcrown 3.2.1.1
          28 June 2020 at 10:12 am

          " Nats don't have what it takes in a natural disaster, never did."

          You can say that again pal. Only have to study how the Christchurch earthquake was run by Jerry Brownarse Minister of Disasters one almighty big disaster.

          Incidentally, my answer was to your comment @3 not @3.1.2 as written. 8. 48 am on a Sunday is a bit early for meangel

    • Muttonbird 3.3
      28 June 2020 at 9:29 am

      +1. This of course could all be destroyed if National win in September. New Zealand is in great danger of pandemic disaster should that happen and I think the public know this.

      • Halfcrown 3.3.1
        28 June 2020 at 10:28 am

        Mutton said @ 3.3

        "This of course could all be destroyed if National win in September. New Zealand is in great danger of pandemic disaster should that happen and I think the public know this".

        Reply

        We hope so Mutton because there are one hell of a lot of fuckwits out there who are brain dead to this and are more interested in point-scoring against the government.

        Like prat Garner one morning last week kept asking Premier Ardern if she was going to apologise. What for? I ask, apologise for keeping the pandemic at bay in NZ.

        • greywarshark 3.3.1.1
          28 June 2020 at 5:46 pm

          Prime Minister Ardern please. Premier is Australian term.

          What does Premier mean in Australia?

          The Premier of Western Australia is the head of the executive branch of government in the Australian state of Western Australia. The Premier has similar functions in Western Australia to those performed by the Prime Minister of Australia at the national level, subject to the different Constitutions. Wikipedia

          • Halfcrown 3.3.1.1.1
            29 June 2020 at 8:51 pm

            "Prime Minister Ardern please. Premier is Australian term"

            You are not quite right there me old son

            I quote the Oxford Concise Dictionary

            Premier Prime Minister in Great Britain or some British dominions. so it is NOT an Ozzie term but a British term so I will stick with what I said Premier Ardern.

  4. The Chairman 4
    28 June 2020 at 8:17 am

    On Friday, the Australian Federal Police raided the Sydney home and parliamentary offices of the NSW Labor MP and the home of his part-time staffer John Zhang.

    • Just Is 4.1
      28 June 2020 at 9:36 am

      Federal politics under the Libs has seen multiple police raids, often targeting Labor or Union offices, most, if not all have no outcome whatsoever, but the negative publicity is always damaging to the Labor Party and the mostly right wing media go along for the ride

      I lived in Sydney from 2011 to 2018 and saw how the media can destroy a whole country for the sake of political point scoring.

      • The Chairman 4.1.1
        28 June 2020 at 2:42 pm

        It may well be political point scoring, yet the Party didn't seem to come to their defence while quickly attempting to distance themselves.

    • Gabby 4.2
      28 June 2020 at 9:38 am

      Did you know ScoMoFo used to work for Munter McMutton?

      • Just Is 4.2.1
        28 June 2020 at 10:07 am

        No, I didn't, but he was minister of Tourism under the Howard Govt and was suddenly sacked from the position, only very recently the reason for his demise was revealed, Fraudulent Activity, recieving kickbacks for favourable contracts, basically, completely dishonest, he's a Pentecostal Christian, say no more, right wing conservatism.

    • Dennis Frank 5.1
      28 June 2020 at 8:30 am

      "Green Party senator Pippa Hackett will be Super Junior Minister in Agriculture with responsibility for Land Use and Biodiversity." Obviously a new form of political creature, Super Junior Ministers – ought we to get some? Chloe seems a contender, eh?

      • ScottGN 5.1.1
        28 June 2020 at 8:43 am

        Equivalent of Parliamentary Under-Secretaries?

        • Dennis Frank 5.1.1.1
          28 June 2020 at 8:59 am

          Could be. The label implies minister-with-training-wheels-on, yet I wonder why the Super gets put on the front – as if to imply a better product that the consumer ought to buy. Perhaps they will wear a badge with their title on it (as a marketing device).

  6. Cinny 6
    28 June 2020 at 9:37 am

    Watching Q+A this morning.

    Gosh Jian Yang is a dodgy MP. Why won't he front for any interviews? Especially in an election year.

    Is there any other list MP in the history of NZ who hasn't fronted for interviews for years?

    Why is he even on the national party list collecting around $170,000 a year of our tax payer money?

    Why aren't media calling out muller on this and asking him questions about it?

    It stinks of CCP manipulation deep in the roots of the national party.

  7. joe90 7
    28 June 2020 at 9:43 am

    Treason.

  8. SPC 8
    28 June 2020 at 10:10 am

    After 3 weeks of poor journalism and some appalingly ignorant commentary as a result – about as poor a service from the media estate as one should ever have to experience.

    The story that should have been written weeks ago.

    There was a government of a country that was coronavirus free. It was at Level 2 of its management regime and because it was community transmission free for some weeks was under pressure to move to level 1 and open up its borders to foreign students and bubble with a neighbouring country (Oz).

    It had already buckled to pressure to allow early exit from the two week quarantine it ran to be kind. Early release without testing.

    So it announced a move to Level 1, but aware of the greater risk of cluster growth (and also the likelihood of returning Kiwis having infections because of the greater numbers returning as overseas lockdown rules eased) under Level 1 moved to a requirement for testing on day 3 and day 12 of the managed isolation.

    However it did so with only one days notice. June 8 with the new rules from June 9.

    Until June 8 all testing was run by the local Health Boards at its testing sites. It had organised the staff, the safety equipment and training for this. There was some testing of those moving into quarantine hotels because of their symptoms – but these numbers were low and testing was in very small numbers on an occasional ad hoc basis (without any time pressure) and so had no implications for other testing capability.

    It was of course not practically possible to have a testing regime in place from June 9 for those who arrived June 7 (June 9 was their third day for testing). Not with one days notice June 8. So operations management staff made the presumption that the policy was meant to only apply for those who arrived from June 9 (not making this presumption would have inferred those making the policy decision were so out of touch as not to realise what they asked could not be done in practice). And so they would apply it from June 11th for those who arrived on June 9. And if they could not organise this with the local Health Board who supplied such staff by June 11th, they would have the first test as early as possible afterward (as they had operated the earlier testing of those with symptoms in quarantine before June 8, when this was in synch with local Health Board staff availability).

    As we know this all came to public notice because a pair of sisters who arrived before June 9 were let out early, and without a test (as people were in May and still were if they arrived before June 9 – unknown to government which seemed to presume that a day 3 or day 12 test would have prevented this).

    And as we know, it was not until about June 16 that the managed isolation system set up a testing regime for those for day 3 and day 12 – even those who arrived on June 9 were not tested on June 11 as the testing took a while to put in place).

    So what actually went wrong.

    Cabinet made a collective decision to do something that could not be done in practice.

    Did Cabinet receive advice from the Ministry of Health about how long it would take to set up the system to apply day 3 and day 12 testing? Or did it make the decison expecting it to apply from June 9 (with one days notice June 8 Cabinet for those who arrived in June 7 – like those sisters from the UK), without any knowledge that there was little chance this could be done. Blaming the Minister or the Ministry or the management regime officials for not implementing the impossible is stupid.

    Did the Ministry inform the Minister about what was possible? Did Cabinet know what they needed to know about the practicality of their policy being implemented in a timely way?

    These are the relevant questions. And yet no one has asked them. Well served by our media, hardly.

    PS Now there are people criticising the Health Minister for not visiting management isolation facilities. There is a reason we do not allow interface with others in the hotel (just necessary isolation regime staffing). There is a pandemic. A person going from such a place to a hospital (to meet a health need) means everyone in the hospital they meet has to be in a suit and the place they go is isolated out until they get a negative test result.

    • Dennis Frank 8.1
      28 June 2020 at 10:22 am

      "These are the relevant questions. And yet no one has asked them."

      Well, did you listen to the RNZ political panel this morning? Linda Clark & Richard Harman reviewing the past week. Those here trying to whitewash Labour, who anticipate a pleasant sunday, ought not to listen to it!

      It's almost as if Labour presumes a cover-up of public service lying to the govt is in everyone's best interests. Yes, I know Labour MPs are mostly clueless – but that bad?? Really? It puzzles me. What does Jacinda gain by promoting this perception?

      • SPC 8.1.1
        28 June 2020 at 10:44 am

        There are two real takeouts

        1. Cabinet made a policy decision asking for something from June 9 with one days notice that would take a week to roll out in practice (did they know that ion June 8 or not?).

        2. The risk of community spread resulting was no greater than that from releaase from managed isolation without a test during May and the first eweek of June.

        All of the back testing done is really to prove Muller's beliefs to be wrong. A bit like science – archeology etc has done to creation science belief.

      • Incognito 8.1.2
        28 June 2020 at 1:06 pm

        It's almost as if Labour presumes a cover-up of public service lying to the govt is in everyone's best interests. Yes, I know Labour MPs are mostly clueless – but that bad?? Really? It puzzles me. What does Jacinda gain by promoting this perception?

        Have a KitKat, Dennis, your comment is projecting so much ‘perception’ that I almost thought it was advanced baiting.

      • Macro 8.1.3
        28 June 2020 at 2:01 pm

        Perhaps you and Linda and Richard should read Soiuxsie Wiles' excellent article on why she is confident there is no community transmission of Covid in NZ

        Before I get into the nitty-gritty, it’s worth noting that we’ve had more than 20,000 people go through managed isolation since the beginning of April. Almost all of those would have left without being tested. There is no evidence any of those people have transmitted the virus to anyone in the wider New Zealand community. On top of that, in the last week or so more than 45,000 tests have been processed and the only positives have come from people in managed isolation facilities at the border.

        Fourteen days in managed isolation is our first line of border defence, not testing

        Because of what we now know about how this virus infects people, lots of countries have settled on 14 days as the time at which if someone doesn’t show symptoms of Covid-19 then it is highly unlikely they will have the virus and be infectious. In other words, they are at very low risk of transmitting the virus to others or “seeding” the virus back into the community. We have been using this 14-day isolation period for several months. This is our first line of defence.

        She gives this very useful interactive graphic to also explain why after over 2 weeks of the new border restrictions (implemented on 9 June) there is very little chance of there being community transmission in Aotearoa

        • Macro 8.1.3.1
          28 June 2020 at 2:03 pm

          ooops sorry about the graphic – seems to have gained extra pixels. 🙁

          [lprent: Fixed. The source image was large. You just need to constrain it (as was probably done at sciblog). Just add the width attribute into the img tag (eg width=”550″). If you’re the first in the hierarchy you can get away with 600. If you’re 10 down in the replies then 500 px will do. ]

          • Macro 8.1.3.1.1
            28 June 2020 at 2:52 pm

            Thanks Lynn I see how to do that now 🙂

            • lprent 8.1.3.1.1.1
              28 June 2020 at 2:55 pm

              I have to say that is a good graphic. What it needs emphasizing is the median time of the onset of any symptoms is days after the infectious period.

        • I Feel Love 8.1.3.2
          28 June 2020 at 4:49 pm

          Yep, we even had Selway on here getting his test and his Dr telling him "you don't need one" after 2 weeks quarantine, the medical experts must despair at the public sometimes. So basically, all these people getting tests after 2 weeks is for political reasons, to assuage the fears of the public.

          • McFlock 8.1.3.2.1
            28 June 2020 at 5:01 pm

            I mean, if we're within capacity and it's not going to fuck logistics, you might as well test them. It might throw something up once every 50 years.

            But the scaremongerers like Muller can go fuck themselves. Spidey-sense is not an effective screening test for community transmission. Their intention is to sow alarm and despondency. It's disgusting.

      • Gabby 8.1.4
        28 June 2020 at 2:15 pm

        I heard it. Basically they said he should resign because it looked bad cos of the cllever camera work. Surely you didn't fall for that crap.

    • Just Is 8.2
      28 June 2020 at 10:43 am

      Hey SPC, have you ever thought about becoming a reporter, this concise and informative turn of events describes the whole dilema in a way most people can understand, it wasn't a bungle, it was a case of not everyone understanding the process and the time frame for implementation, probably the key thing was simple lack of good communication between everyone concerned.

      There were/are no subsequent negative outcomes as a result and hopefully communication lines will improve.

      • SPC 8.2.1
        28 June 2020 at 10:53 am

        I once did, long ago back in the 1980's. I did offer to write a column back in 1999, but got rejected for a black fairy who tried out for the Lord of the Rings.

        • McFlock 8.2.1.1
          28 June 2020 at 1:02 pm

          "black fairy"? WTAF dude?

        • weka 8.2.1.2
          28 June 2020 at 1:05 pm

          "but got rejected for a black fairy who tried out for the Lord of the Rings."

          Please explain what you mean by this.

          • SPC 8.2.1.2.1
            28 June 2020 at 1:56 pm

            It was the Singles column at the Dominion Post, they were replacing the original colunmist EG, later City Girl (a blonde) , with another. The column was published with the pseudonym Sarah Duffy. Duffy means black fairy in Gaelic (dubh fey) The person chosen as Sarah Duffy no 2 (a brunette) wrote a first column about them trying out for a role in Lord of the Rings.

            I find the PC reaction to the term black fairy – especially in reference to the Lord of the Rings so very 20th C reactionary.

            • McFlock 8.2.1.2.1.1
              28 June 2020 at 3:28 pm

              Forgive me for not reading Gaelic, singles columns from 20 years ago, or LOTR. That shifts it to a lowercase "wtaf".

              • SPC …
                28 June 2020 at 3:54 pm

                Yeah I know, I am a walking/hobbling relic of yesteryear.

                • McFlock …
                  28 June 2020 at 4:48 pm

                  Dunno about that, I know folks who speak Klingon. But if you're going to be obscure, don't take it bad when people think you're just openly saying the quiet bits out loud.

    • Macro 8.3
      28 June 2020 at 2:20 pm

      Excellent comment SPC and just published on RNZ a good review on the Report of the country's Managed Isolation and Quarantine system.

      While the review found the system wasn't "broken'' it revealed the increased number of people returning to New Zealand and going into managed isolation was putting pressure on accommodation facilities and staff were only able to respond to daily challenges.

      "The resources required to support the Managed Isolation and Quarantine (MIQ) function have failed to keep pace with the increased volume of returnees. This has resulted in a very dedicated team having to confront immediate issues with limited capacity to plan ahead," the review said.

      …

      "The Ministry of Health will be increasing the number of clinical and non-clinical staff, such as nurses, at each facility to ensure health checks, testing and other health services are consistently delivered to the standards required," Woods said.

      Air Commodore Webb last week announced a doubling of the on-the-ground Defence Force staff of 32, across 18 facilities.

      "As of today, we have 168 NZDF personnel across 21 facilities providing 24/7 coverage. There are also more government and defence staff across the end-to-end system.

      "This increased resourcing has had an immediate impact on the ground in terms of making sure our people are well supported to carry out their roles and ensure the safe transfer of returnees into managed isolation," he said.

      Other improvements rolling out now include:

      • Increased security for transferring returnees to managed isolation facilities
      • The standardisation of procedures across all facilities
      • The introduction of better information for returnees – from flight boarding through to entry into New Zealand and their exit from Managed Isolation.
      • Better information to communities where those facilities are located.
      • Strengthening of demand forecasting, reporting functions and coordination between agencies.

      Health responses include:

      • More staff in facilities
      • Improved model of care – including taking into account issues like mental health and addiction issues
      • More clinical oversight to ensure a consistent quality of service in facilities
      • Monitoring to ensure there is consistency across facilities
  9. Just Is 9
    28 June 2020 at 10:18 am

    Something for a Sunday morning laugh.

    My wife dragged in a Weekend Herald this morning, she purchaed it yesterday, I asked her why on earth she had bought the Herald, she knows I refuse to read it, she replied, I know, but we're running out of newspaper to start the fire and the Saturday edition is quite thick and quite good value.

    • I Feel Love 9.1
      28 June 2020 at 10:22 am

      Ha! Indeed!

    • Halfcrown 9.2
      28 June 2020 at 10:39 am

      Ha ha I like it, better than tearing it up into small squares punching a hole in the corner and tying it with a bit of rope on the back of the Loo door which is the natural home for it.

    • observer 9.3
      28 June 2020 at 1:15 pm

      It was well worth reading Matt Nippert's background coverage of how the government organised a response to Covid-19, including lengthy interviews with Ardern and Peters. That was good, in-depth journalism. You'd be much better informed and would have the details to rebut the RW line that "any government would have done the same".

      Simon Wilson's lunch with Muller and Kaye was a good read too.

      There's plenty of rubbish in the Herald but only a fool would refuse to eat the fish because they don't like the chips.

      • Anne 9.3.1
        28 June 2020 at 1:18 pm

        They were two of the best back-ground stories I have read in a long time.

      • Just Is 9.3.2
        28 June 2020 at 1:45 pm

        Maybe what Anne states is true, rare appearances of professional journalism, makes the paper a bit of a lucky dip.

    • roblogic 9.4
      28 June 2020 at 3:57 pm

      Good fuel and the puzzle section is OK if you like word games

  10. I Feel Love 10
    28 June 2020 at 10:24 am

    Aus fearing their "second wave", be interesting if Nats/Hooton start screaming "close the border!!!!".

  11. Reality 11
    28 June 2020 at 10:32 am

    SPC, good to read some proper background to the situation. Where oh where are intelligent, balanced reporters who can investigate without getting hysterical?

    Have any investigated and got hysterical at Bridges & Muller over them wanting to bring in thousands of students? Where would they be put up? Who would manage and staff these facilities, bearing in mind the huge management of thousands of returning Kiwis has not always been easy, which is understandable given there was no rehearsal for this pandemic.

    I have been heartened by some sensible letters to Dom Post, and people I know more and more are saying the media has lost the plot and NZ has done extremely well. Muller and Co have never acknowledged this.

    • Anne 11.1
      28 June 2020 at 10:51 am

      Yes. I concur with SPC too.

      But who was to blame?

      It is hard not to come to the conclusion that the govt, somewhat bungled the switch from Level 2 to Level 1. We now know Jacinda Ardern was under enormous pressure to make that switch and it came from all quarters but especially from National. In the end she relented despite Bloomfield's note of caution that Level 2 should run for another two weeks.

      The public has to take their share of the blame too because we were all sick and tired of lockdown and we wanted more freedom and we said so – every last one of us.

      Who was to blame?

      We were all to blame from the PM downwards. So lets stop scapegoating individuals which, from my experiences, is the art of the guilty trying to distract attention away from themselves.

      • I Feel Love 11.1.1
        28 June 2020 at 10:58 am

        Interesting point Anne, we are all to blame, fair enough.

        • Peter 11.1.1.1
          28 June 2020 at 1:23 pm

          We're all to blame … Let's sack EVERYONE! Then we can start with a clean slate back where we were before, with everyone in the same positions.

          One exception: Let's have EVERYONE this time round saying "We don't know how f…..n lucky we are."

          The doom merchants, the "Everyone with responsibilities has cocked up" mob?

          Put them in a leaky boat, give Michael Woodhouse the oars, stand Odd Job Muller on the poop deck with a telescope to hold up to his ear, and push them off towards Antarctica.

      • Gabby 11.1.2
        28 June 2020 at 2:25 pm

        For the record, I was not sick and tired of the lockdown, so count me out of the collective breastbeating thanks.

  12. Dennis Frank 12
    28 June 2020 at 10:32 am

    The triumph of reason has happened within Labour in the UK. Apparently…

    I don’t want to rub salt into the wound, because that would sterilise it and help it heal, but the sacking of Rebecca Long-Bailey was one of those rare moments of shocking leadership. For those of us who think a broad-based egalitarian government would be a good idea, it has been a long time since a Labour leader has surprised us with such moral clarity.

    It does not diminish Keir Starmer’s decisiveness that Long-Bailey brought it on herself. By refusing to delete her tweet praising Maxine Peake’s interview, with its antisemitic implication that Israel was to blame for the death of George Floyd, she made Starmer’s choice clear. Indeed, it makes the triumph of reason all the sweeter that the other side contributed to its own defeat with such a misjudgement. https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/keir-starmer-rebecca-long-bailey-tony-blair-corbyn-defeated-blairite-triumph-a9588896.html

    So the long arm of Mossad thesis, eh? I doubt she really implied that, but when UK politics persists in a morass of paranoia, conspiracy theories will inevitably whirl around in the vortex of competing perceptions. And yes, moral clarity in a Labour leader is indeed shocking. As a suggestion. Not sure if the reality has been validated.

    • Ad 12.1
      28 June 2020 at 12:55 pm

      An alternative action for Keir Starmer would be to keep following the foolish and fractious Jeremy Corbyn into a defeat so deep it will take years to get Labour out:

      https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/18/key-points-from-review-of-2019-labour-election-defeat

    • Morrissey 12.2
      28 June 2020 at 1:43 pm

      … with its antisemitic implication that Israel was to blame for the death of George Floyd…

      That was not the implication at all. What was at issue here was whether or not this murderous chokehold technique being used by U.S. police against peaceful and unarmed civilians was taught to them by Israeli police. You probably are aware that Israeli “policing” of the Occupied Territories is even more oppressive and lethal than what is being inflicted on the citizens of the United States by another vicious police culture.

      The wild allegation that "Israel was to blame" is entirely the fabrication of Jeremy Rentoul, the Indescribablyboring hack you have ill-advisedly chosen to quote. Rentoul is a shameless backer of the right wing Blairite faction which has managed to grab control of the Party again after its democratic deviation. It would have been hard for you to choose a more devious and dishonorable source; in 2015 he was forced to publicly apologise after another of his outrageous canards aimed about Corbyn.

      I wrote a post on Twitter last night that I regret, and for which I apologise. I suggested that Jeremy Corbyn might say that France had brought the Paris attacks on itself. I ought to know the danger of spending too much time on Twitter, and I make no excuses.

      I apologise without reservation to Mr Corbyn, to my colleagues and to readers. It was a stupid and offensive thing to say, especially at that time, and I am mortified by it.

      My sympathy goes to the families and friends of all those killed and injured in the attacks.

      https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/an-apology-from-john-rentoul-a6734441.html

      Shame on you for quoting such a callous and calculated liar, Dennis.

    • I Feel Love 13.1
      28 June 2020 at 11:07 am

      That's quite a different tone isn't it? Air flight staff in PPE, wake up breakfasts, nurse visits every day, social distancing, security watching all the time, grateful to be back in NZ. What a shambles & David Clark should resign!

      • Gabby 13.1.1
        28 June 2020 at 2:29 pm

        The new natsy line will have to be that the expense of this mollycoddling is A NATIONAL DISGRACE.

        • lprent 13.1.1.1
          28 June 2020 at 3:05 pm

          Clearly National are ignorant of basic accounting. The cost of doing this is far lower than cost of dealing with a minor outbreak.

          Or they are ignorant of human behaviour when constrained – there will always be idiots who care less for the common good than they do for their own personal interests.

          Or both.

          But I suspect that it is simply because the National strategists are so focused on their spiteful politics of envy because it allows them to stop looking at the horrors that a full-blown epidemic brings. We really should send some of their MPs on a fact finding mission to the US at present (or even after our election) so that they do start to understand it.

        • mac1 13.1.1.2
          28 June 2020 at 3:11 pm

          Nah, National will be saying that private enterprise can better organise border controls than civil servants and the military, and anyway the money should be going to our mates…..

          • Incognito 13.1.1.2.1
            28 June 2020 at 3:14 pm

            A toss-up between Serco and Novopay?

            • mac1 13.1.1.2.1.1
              28 June 2020 at 3:39 pm

              Toss-up? Far too uncertain. Deals behind closed doors is how you do it, with knighthoods and cushy retirement jobs, and even a little earner writing for the Herald………

          • Drowsy M. Kram 13.1.1.2.2
            28 June 2020 at 3:47 pm

            [Exasperatedly] Look, it's perfectly simple, opposition National party politicians are simply saying that NZ's Covid-19 outcomes would be much better if only our government had adopted policies closer to Sweden's Australia's New Zealand's – that's all they're yakking on about; give them a break, and while you’re at it read Chris Penk's simple book why don't yah!

            In sum, and on the evidence, Australia has done no better than us in economic outcomes, is doing worse than us in public health outcomes and is headed in the wrong direction in controlling the disease. Yet this failed model is what the National Party has been promoting all along, and is what would have adopted had a National government been in power here. Perhaps the media could begin to raise this credibility problem, now that we’re on the verge of an election campaign where National’s main pitch to voters is that it is a safer pair of hands in a crisis, and is a better manager of the economy. In its dreams. For the past three decades there is absolutely no evidence that has been the case, beyond its provision of an occasional sugar hit to the economy in the shape of tax cuts and asset part-sales. Sure, you can always keep warm for a while by burning the furniture, but this isn’t a sustainable way of running the economy.
            http://werewolf.co.nz/2020/06/gordon-campbell-on-the-media-collusion-with-nationals-attack-lines/

            • mac1 13.1.1.2.2.1
              28 June 2020 at 4:04 pm

              Or keep warm by exporting swamp kauri 'furniture' to China; or live sheep to the Middle East, or kiwi fruit plants to the competition- that kind of sustainable?

              • Drowsy M. Kram …
                28 June 2020 at 4:11 pm

                yes Those 'initiatives' need wider circulation – audience ready and waiting.

                • mac1 …
                  28 June 2020 at 4:20 pm

                  How about exporting NZ bulk wine overseas for the GB supermarket trade??

                  Or, selling Argentinian bulk wine in NZ under NZ brand labels?

                • mac1 …
                  28 June 2020 at 5:02 pm

                  Or well water to the Chinese?

                  Or cheap power to Aussie smelters?

                  Then there's education. Knock off a few diplomas, certificates and degrees to all in-comers. (What did Prof Jim Flynn say on RNZ? No-one reads anymore at Uni.)

              • Gabby …
                28 June 2020 at 5:37 pm

                Or smuggling in diseased bees and rabbit viruses of course.

  14. joe90 14
    28 June 2020 at 10:39 am

    Solving a housing crisis, one bankruptcy at a time.

    • roblogic 14.1
      28 June 2020 at 4:04 pm

      Americans can get a house for under $100K. But John Key ( & Clark before that) "saved" us from the GFC by importing a million people

  15. Morrissey 15
    28 June 2020 at 10:44 am

    Jeremy Corbyn’s Opponents Burned the House Down to Stop Him — Now Keir Starmer Is King of the Ashes

    by DANIEL FINN, Jacobin, 25 June 2020

    By sacking Rebecca Long-Bailey on a trumped-up pretext, Keir Starmer has set the seal on a drastic shift to the right for the British Labour Party. That shift comes just as the key arguments by Jeremy Corbyn’s opponents to justify a break with his left leadership have been falling apart in the face of overwhelming evidence. ….

    Read more…

    https://jacobinmag.com/2020/06/keir-starmer-rebecca-long-bailey-sacked-labour

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2020/06/26/the-sordid-truth-about-jeremy-corbyns-defeat/

    • Ad 15.1
      28 June 2020 at 1:04 pm

      Keir Starmer is making the right moves, and it's a helluva lot better than that fucking moron Jeremy Corbyn who was so utterly loathed by both marginal voters and deeply loyalLaobour voters alike. Corbyn lost every voter age category from 25-44 upwards.

      https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/18/key-points-from-review-of-2019-labour-election-defeat

      Corbyn deserves a statue of himself on a pedestal put up outside Labour UK headquarters central London with feet made of tin, so that Labour supporters can organise crowds to pull it down with tractors and chains every year and sing sings about "never again" and explain to the youngest of supporters this is how to avoid wasting millions of supporter hours and millions of supporter money and a huge 2017 voter surge into stupid policies and catastrophic defeat within 2 years and allow Boris Fucking Johnson to rule the country into ruin instead.

      Or, of course, you could read Norman Finkelstein instead.

      • Morrissey 15.1.1
        28 June 2020 at 1:16 pm

        Keir Starmer is making the right moves… that fucking moron Jeremy Corbyn … Boris Fucking Johnson to rule the country into ruin

        ?

        https://i0.wp.com/bobcesca.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/cant-tell-if-serious.jpg

        Or, of course, you could read Norman Finkelstein instead.

        Of course. And who do YOU read, sir?

        • Ad 15.1.1.1
          28 June 2020 at 2:06 pm

          Well I read the actual review of the Labour Party's performance for a start, rather than an outsider's reckons.

          And you should expect more sackings from Starmer as well, if anyone so much as puts a hair out of place.

          • Morrissey 15.1.1.1.1
            28 June 2020 at 2:12 pm

            And you should expect more sackings from Starmer as well, if anyone so much as puts a hair out of place.

            You're quite right there, Ad.

            He’ll call belonging to a union “anti-Semitic” next. It would make as much sense as anything else he’s said.

            Further down the thread, one Alistair Craig sums up this disastrous capture of the Labour Party by the right wing:

            electing the British state’s former chief prosecutor as leader of the socialist opposition was a bad move wasn’t it.

  16. Rosemary McDonald 16
    28 June 2020 at 10:52 am

    The Health and Disability system review was finally released last week to mixed reception. We all know that the MOH is dysfunctional, and successive governments have failed to either take charge of this rogue organisation or properly fund our public health and disability system to ensure systemic inequities do not cost further lives.

    https://systemreview.health.govt.nz/

    What gladdens my cynical and bitter old heart is how finally, finally, disabled people have raised their voices both individually and collectively to express their bitter disappointment at the failure of this review to address the very real inadequacies in the Ministry of Health Disability Support Services.

    There were no disabled people on the Review's steering committee and as Gerri Pomeroy, President of DPA says…

    Disabled people have the right to have their views taken into consideration and be heard, particularly now the government is a signatory to the UN Declaration on the Rights of Disabled Persons."

    While she and others supported many of the health system changes the report suggested, she said the review was "as we feared, a health review with disability tacked on".

    (Kudos to Gerri. She is an ACC client and it became clear she had little understanding of the struggles faced by those who have no rights or entitlements to disability supports enshrined by law. A while after we challenged her on this, she did approach us and admitted that she really had no idea how tough it is under MOH. Very pleased to see her stepping up.)

    This long form article on RNZ is by a journalist unknown to me. He's done an excellent job. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/419956/disability-sector-calls-for-separate-ministry-support-unshackled-from-health-system

    And yesterday another writer and long time disability advocate Chris Ford made this contribution…also on the RNZ site. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/419994/opinion-time-to-liberate-disability-from-health

    I remember as a young disability activist at the time this went against the consensus view of disabled people who believed it would represent a regression to the medical model of disability. Simply, the medical model holds that disabled people should be treated as people with bodily and mental deficits which needed to be addressed through treatment – rather than as people who need to have our rights upheld and requirement for individualised support respected.

    As time has shown, the government's claims turned out to be but fine rhetoric.

    The reality for disabled people like me is that we still have to go through bureaucratic hoops to prove to the Ministry of Health (which controls funding for non-accident related disability) that we need essential mobility equipment such as, for example, wheelchairs or housing modifications.

    This having to go through hoops has been compounded by successive governments failing to increase disability support funding substantially – at least not until this year's Budget which saw the most significant boost to disability funding in decades.

    Chris doesn't just criticize he suggests a solution…one that has been on the disability wishlist for many years.

    I would like to see a government entity called Disability New Zealand established (replacing both the Ministry of Health DSS and ACC), whose operations and governance are be led by disabled people.

    This agency would administer disability support funding and allow disabled people and their whānau to both create and hold individualised support budgets.

    Moreover, an independent, autonomous Disability Commission, which would also be disabled person-led, would provide policy advice and monitor all government policy which impacted on disabled people.

    We could have had all these recommendations had the Health and Disability System Review included disabled people's representation on it – something that I and other disabled people and our organisations called for constantly, including to Health Minister David Clark and Review Chair Heather Simpson.

    Our views were ignored, hence the limited recommendations.

    Responses from both Carmel MIA Sepuloni as Minister for Disability Issues and Jenny 'I don't really want this hot potato thrown at me by JAG' Salesa have been predictably dismissive.

    'Just fuck off and wait..' sums it up.

    I might be being over optimistic, but this might be one of those make or break issues for this Current Mob occupying the gummint benches.

    Perhaps someone close to them could whisper in their ear that some of us out here do understand that the Misery of Health has been a rogue entity for quite some time now so we don't necessarily blame the MPs and the PM directly for this continued shitting on of disabled New Zealanders. What would be great…and very possibly vote winning… would be the massive purge of the entrenched bureaucracy at the Mystery that is desperately needed.

    Start again with new blood, and this time use the word "entitled" in all of their policies.

    • SPC 16.1
      28 June 2020 at 11:21 am

      A Disability Authority and Disability Commission (advocacy) does seem to be the way to go.

      Not that this should be needed to make these moves.

      1. move long term support (disability benefit) to super rate level

      2. allow those who meet criteria for disability support to receive a minimum of the dole rate when living with working partners.

      3. super rate support to those unable to work while they are facing illness likely that incapacitate them, or cause death (heart attacks and late stage cancer)

      4. more than benefit level support to workers no longer able to work for health reasons (outside the current ACC model).

      Advocacy for those with disability, birth or ACC orbit, or non ACC criteria sickness/deterioration in terms of medical and treatment support is necessary, especially when we are still under the funding constraint management regime of health services model.

    • weka 16.2
      28 June 2020 at 11:53 am

      "'Just fuck off and wait..'"

      rolfnui.

      I just tweeted this

      and writing that I went to the RNZ website and see the front page is plastered with the DA review critiques, which is fantastic except for the fact that the disability activist sector appears to be sacrificing people whose disability stems from health issues. Or maybe they just don't know about them.

      Not impressed, it's a shit show all round.

      • Rosemary McDonald 16.2.1
        28 June 2020 at 12:36 pm

        …the disability activist sector appears to be sacrificing people whose disability stems from health issues….

        You're going to have to expand on that weka. Am I right in thinking this is to do with the difference between the social and medical models of disability?

        Can be a bit tricky….no disabled person…especially those born with impairments…wants to be seen solely as someone who needs treatment or fixing. Chris Ford's piece discusses this a little. I'll let him explain.

        OTOH…if disabled people do not get the supports they need then their health can go rapidly to shit. So there is the medical to consider.

        In all our dealings with the Misery of Health over the years one of the expectations that Peter and I wrongly held was that provision of good supports for disabled people would be seen as an investment. The cost of fixing someone through through the health system can be seriously expensive. Much more than funding adequate supports.

        But no. It seems the bastards don't care if a person with spina bifida (who survived the near compulsory termination protocols) gets repeated bladder and kidney infections because they are forced to use single use catheters multiple times. Kidney failure? Shortens their lives. In the Ministry's book this would be a win.

        And as for the End of Life Choice Bill….this should be ditched until ALL disabled New Zealanders who need disability supports have those supports funded as of right.

        Just like those on ACC.

        • weka 16.2.1.1
          28 June 2020 at 12:50 pm

          the RNZ headlines and having a quick read through are pushing the separate Disability from Health. Which I actually support, but you *have to take health disability people with that, not create a further ghettoisation of chronically ill people. We already have discrimination with Health on that basis around who can get disability funding. I can totally see that if Disability were given its own ministry that Labour would fuck this up and chronically ill people would be sacrificed yet again.

          • weka 16.2.1.1.1
            28 June 2020 at 12:52 pm

            I agree there are issues on what framing/narratives are used too, especially around ‘fixing’. It's complex. I completely agree with the position that the govt should be putting disabled people in charge, and this needs to include those with health disabilities (which will present another whole set of challenges). I don't think the disability sector (govt, NGO or activist) is particularly good on this.

          • Rosemary McDonald 16.2.1.1.2
            28 June 2020 at 1:18 pm

            I can totally see that if Disability were given its own ministry that Labour would fuck this up and chronically ill people would be sacrificed yet again.

            Very quickly…because I have stuff to do outside while it is not raining…you might want to have a look at the MOH DSS definition of disability as pertains to accessing services.

            For many years now mental health has been accepted into the disability tent..but not, you say chronic health conditions.

            Why…I guess this is about the 'condition lasting for longer than six months' part of the definition. Could it be than many with these health conditions resist the definition of 'disability' because of the negative connotations of the word? They are hoping to be cured?

            A minefield.

    • AB 16.3
      28 June 2020 at 2:27 pm

      "… the medical model holds that disabled people should be treated as people with bodily and mental deficits which need to be addressed through treatment – rather than as people who need to have our rights upheld…"

      Which would be bad enough on its own – but is compounded when the treatment recommended is far from the best available. For example, the scandalous reluctance of the medical profession to recommend and advocate for the the funding of Selective Dorsal Rhizotomy (SDR) for children with cerebral palsy. Combined with follow-up physiotherapy, gym-work and strengthening, it is by far the best, modern treatment for cerebral palsy of the diplegic type. The long-term burden of disability on the individuals concerned, and the taxpayer (though the health economics studies have not been done) is substantially reduced. Existing protocols of multiple, repeated orthopaedic operations with poor cumulative outcomes are protected and maintained – because that is where the current medical expertise and government funding sits. Families are self-funding or running lengthy fund-raising campaigns to obtain this procedure overseas – then paying again for physiotherapy or gym sessions while injured rugby players get covered by ACC.

  17. greywarshark 17
    28 June 2020 at 11:29 am

    Some interesting stuff on media on Radionz today.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018752161/midweek-mediawatch-reporters-criticised-for-being-too-critical 7.51 am

    And then there was 9.06 am Media Watch which I didn't find easy to reach as usual. There seems to be some reshuffling of how things are presented, not sure just what. However here is the audio which is very interesting as it is about Cambridge Analytica et al. Did you know that Margaret Thatcher used the services of the political mixers for her three elections? And there's more….

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018752569

    Those who wish to be politically informed, and those who wish to be up with all the sly ways of undermining our political process and elections, and those who want to find out who is who and who's paying should listen to this. Journalists are out there with 'truly epic stories', and that's not puffing them up. Knowing about this is important for those with dreams of maintaining a good, functioning democracy that keeps itself in good condition, and clean its boots topside, and soles regularly.

    It would be interesting to know what others here thought after hearing this, did everyone find something new they hadn't heard?

  18. RedbaronCV 18
    28 June 2020 at 11:36 am

    Air nz really doesn't get it- starting to look like they might be a paid up member of the Nats.

    Do they need to have government regulation on every little thing or could they not err on the side of caution and wear and handout masks. No aircraft filtration system is going to save you from the person next to you coughing all over you.

    An Air New Zealand spokeswoman said crew on international flights are required to wear masks and gloves during food and drink service and face-to-face interactions with passengers.

    However, there was no government requirement for staff to wear masks in Queensland.

    "Our jet aircraft are fitted with hospital-grade air systems that filter out viruses, and hand sanitiser is also available in airports and on aircraft for customers and staff to use as they wish," she said.

    And on a wider note we probably really don't need further infections from in transit and aircraft transmission. If we get too much or find it towards the end of quarantine it will delay departure from quarantine of more people and clog up the spaces we do have.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/121957033/coronavirus-passenger-dismayed-at-air-new-zealands-casual-attitude-to-virus

  19. Dennis Frank 19
    28 June 2020 at 11:52 am

    From the RNZ political panel this morning (https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018752565/the-panel-with-linda-clark-and-richard-harman – jump to 6.5 mins in to skip the world cup bit):

    LC: "I think it's inevitably a combination of both… Labour has made a lot of mistakes in the last couple of weeks". She's saying Muller's achievement isn't solely the cause of the 9% switch in the poll. "A lot of public confidence has been shaken by a whole series of mistakes, and they are going to be punished for that."

    RH: "we learnt this morning that both Shane Jones & Nikki Kaye want the legislation to be amended to let Auckland take more water from the Waikato River". After mentioning that the RMA amendments are still in select committee. And "it's looking less & less likely that the shovel-ready projects are going to be ready before the election."

    LC: "Winston is in the petty politics phase at the moment, and I don't think it's working for him."

    RH on the border shambles: "I think they need to explain just how the decisions were made… Go back to Tuesday, and in the House, Jacinda Ardern quite clearly stated that the Ministry of Health had misled her… now, for a ministry to mislead the prime minister herself on something like this [testing done] is very, very important. And so yes, Clark is guilty of not asking enough questions". [Re the DGoH] "The prime minister said he was reporting, but what he was reporting was wrong."

    Yet the public servant who think they've got away with lying to their minister, the DGoH, and the PM are sitting there rubbing their hands with glee, saying to each other "Way cool, dudes! Public service is fun, eh?"

    RH: "I think it would be unfair to sack the minister for this, yet the government has not presented a case in its own defense."

    Then re Newshub and "throwing Dr Bloomfield under the bus"…

    LC: "As an old television reporter I have to take my hat off to the cameraman… an absolute master, because that really caught a moment – and he was being thrown under a bus, I don't think there's any denying that… there's no question that the prime minister has been misled by the ministry, and it may be that Bloomfield has been too – by his officials". "I think the most responsible thing that David Clark could do is resign."

    • SPC 19.1
      28 June 2020 at 12:36 pm

      As you know, I think Linda Clark's perspective is very ignorant.

      As to the question to the Minister while alongside Bloomfield, and the cameraman’s filming of Bloomfield at that moment, speaks to the very fact of this being a pre planned sting. The story of it effectively written before the question was even asked.

      Taking off their hat to the cameraman, in that context, is disingenuous.

        • I Feel Love 19.1.1.1
          28 June 2020 at 4:56 pm

          there was no shambles, I'll keep repeating that everytime I see it.

          • Dennis Frank 19.1.1.1.1
            28 June 2020 at 5:14 pm

            Yeah, incantations do work via repetition. Just like advertising. Yet people en masse still have this old idea in their heads; magical thinking is ineffective.

            Mass perceptions of a shambles are likewise influential. Weight of numbers – politics being a numbers game.

            • greywarshark 19.1.1.1.1.1
              28 June 2020 at 5:32 pm

              What a couple of poisonous weeds. There have been a number of people who appeared to be sensible reporters revealed when they leave government jobs, as deeply troubled by the idea of a fair democracy, and honest, balanced reporting with both negative and positive observations!

            • Incognito 19.1.1.1.1.2
              28 June 2020 at 5:43 pm

              Loud noise in MSM does not equal mass perception although NZ’s megaphone media would like you to believe it and, sadly, it seems to be working. You seem to be scared that critical thinking might be conflated with defending the Government/Clark/DGoH. Walk and chew gum at the same time.

    • Bearded Git 19.2
      28 June 2020 at 5:31 pm

      Dennis: Why are you buying into the "border shambles" line when it was nothing of the sort?

  20. weka 20
    28 June 2020 at 12:29 pm

    Green have a policy announcement at 1pm

    Live stream https://www.facebook.com/nzgreenparty/videos/723007115124045/

  21. joe90 21
    28 June 2020 at 12:48 pm

    "Sensors in Sweden …" is how the Chernobyl news kicked off in 1986.

    Radiation sensors in Stockholm have detected higher-than-usual but still harmless levels of isotopes produced by nuclear fission, probably from somewhere on or near the Baltic Sea, a body running a worldwide network of the sensors said on Friday.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nuclear-particles-baltic/sensors-detect-rise-in-nuclear-particles-on-baltic-sea-global-body-says-idUSKBN23X2TN

  22. joe90 22
    28 June 2020 at 1:29 pm

    Half-price piss, though.

    People who visited a bar in East Lansing, Michigan, are being asked to self-quarantine because roughly 85 people contracted Covid-19 after visiting the establishment this month, a health official says.

    That number is up from the 34 reported Wednesday and is expected to rise, Ingham County Health officer Linda S. Vail told CNN.

    The Health Department is asking patrons who visited Harper's Restaurant & Brew Pub between June 12 and June 20 to self-quarantine, and report cases of Covid-19, the department said in a statement.

    "Given the number of cases in this outbreak, we consider this a higher risk exposure than a typical visit to a restaurant or bar," Vail said. "There are likely more people infected with Covid-19 not yet identified."

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/27/us/michigan-coronavirus-bar-harpers/index.html

  23. weka 23
    28 June 2020 at 1:30 pm

    Greens new social security policy:

    Guaranteed Minimum Income replacing all core benefits and student allowance.

    Increases in income support for those with children

    ACC replaced with Agency for Comprehensive Care

    Taxing uber wealthy, as well as new tax brackets for $100,000 and $150,000

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/420016/election-2020-green-party-unveils-plans-to-tackle-poverty

    • Dennis Frank 23.2
      28 June 2020 at 1:35 pm

      Guaranteed Minimum Income

      Well, does that mean it isn't a UBI?? Perhaps you could write up & post an essay explaining what sort of critter it is. Sounds good tho, & a radical move… 👍

      • Incognito 23.2.1
        28 June 2020 at 1:48 pm

        Is there a single clear definition of UBI, in NZ context? If not, this is a red herring, IMHO.

        • weka 23.2.1.1
          28 June 2020 at 3:45 pm

          UBIs are generally paid to everyone. The GP GMI is for those that need it (essentially everyone not in full time work). I tempted to say Gareth Morgan won't be getting it 😈 but I haven't seen yet if the GMI is asset tested.

          • SPC 23.2.1.1.1
            28 June 2020 at 4:00 pm

            No one on super (or in FT work) would get.

          • Incognito 23.2.1.1.2
            28 June 2020 at 4:08 pm

            Ta

            GMI =//= UBI and comparing the two would be like apples & orange AKA a red herring 😉

            • weka 23.2.1.1.2.1
              28 June 2020 at 6:18 pm

              I took it as a question from someone who hadn't read the policy yet.

              The debate around UBI has been dominant, so it's going to be useful to compare the two different things and point out they are apples and oranges but they're still both fruit 🙂 Especially when it comes to examining TOP's UBI policy 😈

              • Incognito …
                28 June 2020 at 8:50 pm

                Fair comment. Talking about TOP’s UBI policy is specific, at least. I still don’t see much point in a head-to-head comparison other than to show and highlight (?) the differences? I think it is a reductionist trap and an exercise in futility (AKA waste of time) but I’m sure some pundits and MSM won’t be able to resist 😉 Just my 2 cents, of course.

                • weka …
                  28 June 2020 at 9:40 pm

                  Given TOP will be going after GP votes, and that too many lefties have been singing the praises of TOP's UBI, I find it instructive to look at them side by side. I'm putting up a post tomorrow about the GP policy alone, might do a separate one on the comparison with TOP at some point (might not be necessary).

                  It's also because I've written about the serious short comings of UBI models (including TOP's) and the GP basically fills the gaps that others haven't been able to. This isn't about the GP so much (apart from pointing out the value in voting for them), it's more about keeping visible the need for welfare to be bolted on to any model. A distinction that too many on the left had failed to grasp. Will be really interesting to see who gets it now, once presented with an integrated and costed policy.

      • SPC 23.2.2
        28 June 2020 at 2:13 pm

        The link says $325 base rate (singles) for benefits and srtudent allowance. It also shows higher support payments per child.

        And no GMI has nothing to do with UI.

      • weka 23.2.3
        28 June 2020 at 3:43 pm

        I am writing a post as we speak. It's a beautiful policy and yes, radical but not so much as to scare the horses. Not perfect, but really good. Tt's not a UBI. It's a guaranteed minimum income for those that need it, plus lots of other good stuff for welfare.

      • UncookedSelachimorpha 23.2.4
        28 June 2020 at 6:53 pm

        I used to support UBI, but now prefer Guaranteed Minimum Income (GMI). GMI means you can afford to give more to those who need it, while maintaining the other desirable aspects of UBI (no test or expectations other than having sufficiently low income). All of us are eligible for GMI when we need it.

        Listening to this from Max Rashbrooke explained the UBI / GMI issue well.

    • Rosemary McDonald 23.3
      28 June 2020 at 1:47 pm

      It would support people who were injured or sick …

      Arrgghhh!!!!

      What about those born with a disability? This is what some of the disability activists are on about.

      As if your disability being literally lifelong makes you less deserving.

      Hardly inclusive language is it?

      We must all try harder.

      While yet another rainstorm passes through…remember this?

      https://info.scoop.co.nz/Equity_For_Illness

      I gave Melanie a call once and suggested that instead of Equity for 'Illness' it was reworded to be inclusive of those who were disabled from birth and those whose injuries predated ACC…she wouldn't have a bar of it. Different communities and different needs.

      At the end of the day we're all humans whose minds or bodies have some degree of impairment because of whatever and who need a some degree of support.

      Goodness me..our tribalism is our downfall.

      • solkta 23.3.1
        28 June 2020 at 1:59 pm

        Not sure if those words are from the Party or clumsy paraphrasing by the media. The release to members reads:

        That means we’re making big changes to how we support students and people out of work, giving extra help to parents, those who are sick or disabled, and making sure all whānau have what they need to thrive.

        ✅Extra support for people who are sick or disabled

        By reforming ACC as the Agency for Comprehensive Care, our plan ensures that those who find themselves unable to work due to sickness or disability are properly supported, and have enough to live on.

      • weka 23.3.2
        28 June 2020 at 3:49 pm

        Just working my way through the details, but it looks good for all disabled, impaired, unwell people that can't work full time.

        • Increase in base benefit rate to $390/wk
        • top ups fully individualised
        • transforming ACC into an Agency for Comprehensive Care that covers *all disability income support needs regardless of how those needs came about
        • eventual ACC rate higher than the increased base benefit rate

        all in a context of manaaki, give people what they need rather than making them jump hoops. It's bold as.

        • weka 23.3.2.1
          28 June 2020 at 3:49 pm

          couples rates would be gone too. Can't see the details on abatement rates yet, but they'd change those too.

          • Rosemary McDonald 23.3.2.1.1
            28 June 2020 at 5:33 pm

            And maybe, just maybe the Greens can win back quality candidates such as this…

            https://nzagainstthecurrent.blogspot.com/2017/03/i-am-reassessing-my-membership.html

            GREEN PARTY candidate Chris Ford says he's "reassessing" his membership of the Green Party in the light of the leadership shifting the party further to the right and signing up for Labour's 'Budget Responsibility Rules'. He's also angry that this was done without any consultation with the party membership.

            Ford, who stood for the Green's in 2014, said: "I'm very disappointed with the party I belong to for doing this! In fact, I know that many other members -like me – are disappointed and angry. I am reassessing my membership. I knew that this statement (Labour and Greens' joint Budget Responsibility Rules agreement) was being developed but party members seem to have been largely bypassed in doing so.”

            Ford is expressing a widespread dissatisfaction within the Green Party rank and file who believe that the party has strayed far from its progressive roots, For many, the sight of co-leaders James Shaw and Metiria Turei signing up to the 'Budget Responsibility Rules' may be the final straw.

        • solkta 23.3.2.2
          28 June 2020 at 3:54 pm

          Increase in base benefit rate to $390/wk

          $390 or $325?

        • Rosemary McDonald 23.3.2.3
          28 June 2020 at 5:27 pm

          Bold indeed. Looking good…let's see it explicit in their manifesto.

          Might have a party to vote for after all.smiley

          Who is the Green candidate for the Far North?

  24. Morrissey 24
    28 June 2020 at 2:05 pm

    The unwelcome re-emergence of Unity Mitford

  25. SPC 25
    28 June 2020 at 2:21 pm

    A lot of pressure on the managed isolation system from increased numbers coming across the border.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/420020/covid-19-nz-s-managed-isolation-system-not-broken-but-under-extreme-stress-review

    For mine they should reduce pressure on the managed isolation facilities by turning them into second week stays.

    They should locate first week stays in hotels not currently used (rent by floor). Just the day 3 test to interface with the confined without symptoms.

    And if they bus – either level 3 spacing, or provide masks to passengers and PPE to staff.

    We should if at all possible have special flights for Kiwis in Oz coming here, they do not leave Oz with it and are at risk on the journey to the hotel and others they are isolated with.

    • SPC 25.1
      28 June 2020 at 2:41 pm

      They should locate first week stays in hotels not currently used (rent by floor). Just the day 3 test to interface with the confined without symptoms.

      First week stays confined to their room.

    • observer 25.2
      28 June 2020 at 3:03 pm

      Very good, clear press conference by Woods and Webb (most of which will never make the headlines, because it was too sensible).

      Expecting 5,000 arriving in the next 1-2 weeks? Capacity for 6,000, give or take.

      So let's invite thousands more people in, we can cope easily, said no sane person, ever. But National are saying exactly that. So what do the journos at press conference ask about instead? "Is anybody bringing in drugs?" FFS.

  26. mac1 26
    28 June 2020 at 3:26 pm

    Better questions from the media might be, "Why are all these people returning home to New Zealand?" and "What are the returnees reporting on how conditions are in the countries they are returning from in terms of Covid-19 and social risk?" or "What percentage of returnees have furnished substantive complaints about treatment on return?"

  27. weka 27
    28 June 2020 at 3:50 pm

    Can anyone explain this to me?

    • SPC 27.1
      28 June 2020 at 4:19 pm

      Personally I would have brought those who lost employment through ill health (sickness/physical decay and heart attacks etc) into the ACC employer funded system. This also has a focus on funding treatment/recovery to get people back to work.

      Savings for MSD then used for more generous funding to those with earlier and other circumstance inability to work (often permanent) – 80% of the MW is generous ($600 a week before tax). And I thought moving those on disability (now around $300) to the super rate $425 was the bold move. I can however agree younger folk need more than someone on super who owns a home, so there is a case for the higher amount.

      The last sentence may refer to the ACC payment system, how to put a cap on the payments it currently makes to injured workers to reduce its costs to afford the expansion of coverage. The 80% payment amount maximum frozen until it reduces to 1/2 times the average wage as a maximum.

      • weka 27.1.1
        28 June 2020 at 6:28 pm

        thanks, I did wonder if it was about high income earners going onto ACC. Can you please explain how that works?

        SLP current rate is $307 for an adult. GP policy is to increase this to $390 before April (60% of min wage), then once merged with ACC to increase it to 80% of net minimum wage, $604/wk or $484 depending on whether they are talking about 80% of net or gross.

      • SPC 27.1.2
        28 June 2020 at 6:39 pm

        All I know about ACC is that its based at 80% of the former wage.

        correction to the original post
        until it reduces to 1 1/2 times the average as a maximum.

        I presume that under the ACC system there is a maximum former wage allowed and thus there would be savings made if that was fixed/unadjusted until it was no more than 1 1/2 times the average. Thus a future maximum amount at 80% of that amount, which would be a maxmum of (at current average somewhere around 60,000, 80% would be c$48,000 near $1000 per week).

        PS above I put it at $600 a week for 80% of the MW, it would at next years rate of $20 an hour be c$640 per week before tax.

  28. joe90 28
    28 June 2020 at 4:13 pm

    heh

    https://www.theolympian.com/news/local/article243834242.html

  29. Andre 29
    28 June 2020 at 4:49 pm

    ACT are doing their bit to increase diversity in Parliament. Gun nuts and climate cranks deserve representation too!

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12343678

    • Incognito 29.1
      28 June 2020 at 8:00 pm

      And one of Hooton’s acolytes on no. 2. Will Paul ‘the Muss’ Goldsmith stand aside again in Epsom?

  30. joe90 30
    28 June 2020 at 5:32 pm

    Poots don't care.

    /

  31. Incognito 31
    28 June 2020 at 6:06 pm

    Urgent water summit too short notice for double-booked Auckland Council

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12343660

    So many ‘surprised’ people, so little action, so late …

    Can we please bang some heads together?

  32. joe90 32
    28 June 2020 at 6:53 pm

    She miscarried.

    • AB 32.1
      28 June 2020 at 9:35 pm

      Looks like an intentional piece of Balkans-style ethnic cleansing – deliberate termination of a foetus for being black

      • greywarshark 32.1.1
        28 June 2020 at 10:02 pm

        Oh how could police do this in a supposedly civilised country. If they had a spark of decency left in the USA they would be ashamed. It's a disgrace at present, sick outside and in. That was in Florida with a lot of coronavirus. A good slogan for their protests would be Cough on a Cop. A violence free way of retaliating. What sort of reaction did Ghandi and his followers get? It takes a lot of resolve to face this sort of viciousness.

  33. sumsuch 33
    29 June 2020 at 12:31 am

    Well, I expect all of you will talk about the Greens's beneficiary package tomorrow. It was a late announcement (?).

    It depends how much they insist on it in their coalition negotiations. I'll accept all party's positions — a bidding war for the neediest.

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