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Open Mike 28/07/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 28th, 2018 - 110 comments
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110 comments on “Open Mike 28/07/2018”

  1. Pat 1

    “So the key things that the current government has to tackle are strategic – to look as though they are in charge at the time of the 2020 election and not just battling the rising pressures. Here is what I would do immediately.

    First, there is a need for a strategic policy group, probably in the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet and separate from the already existent policy advisory group which deals with the short-term crises. Given the daily turmoil, I have no problems with the Prime Minister having such a short-term group. But within government there is no overarching medium and long term policy thinking”

    https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/what-should-the-government-be-doing

    At last a commentator points out the obvious….whats the plan?

    • Ad 1.1

      I did a post on the same thing on July 22nd.

      The one area of this government that does have strong plans is the urban spatial frameworks, through transport and housing. The main question is whether they will be in long enough to confirm them.

      • Pat 1.1.1

        and I made the same point myself days ago….the transport and housing plans i would suggest are in themselves incomplete but importantly are not part of a comprehensive plan….employment, taxation, inequality, immigration. trade, population even…..if we are going to transform our economy (and society) its a wee bit more than some tram tracks and prefab housing.

        The Coalition have the ideal person in Jacinda Adern to take people with them but she needs a plan to sell.

    • rightly or wrongly 1.2

      Great just what we need. Yet another little group of nodding heads, drawing six figure salaries and preparing another ‘report’ on how to tell citizens to live their lives.

      Like every other trough established by this government, it will have no power or relevance.

      The only committee that has any power is the committee of 2 – Ardern and Peters.

      Nothing else means anything.

      • Pat 1.2.1

        We can take it then that you dont think strategic planning is necessary or desirable?

        • KJT 1.2.1.1

          You can take it that the right wing thinks consideration of evidence, consultation and deliberation, are superfluous.

          As Wayne Mapp said once. “This is not how we do policy in New Zealand”.

  2. cleangreen 2

    Pat

    you said “First, there is a need for a strategic policy group”

    Yes a ‘summit between the three coalition Parties’ – would be a very strong issue to first do here so the Government can then clearly set about honouring all their promises made pre-election such as;

    1/ Tackling the Climate change effects.

    We still see the trucking lobby increasing truck use and no real regional rail being used as we in the provinces need trucks off our second class narrow winding roads as tjhey are now so dangerous and being destroyed by constant heavier trucks wrecking them as they increase the transport CO2 emmissions where rail would be lowering the CO2 levels.

    2/ Secondly; – need the Government to restore the “free to air TV channel for Public affairs investigative jouralism as we Nationnal Party media is sending negative meessages about the new Labour co-alition Government andn that will harm our cause to get the issues aired on TV in a open and free from bias manner and those two issues are among the urgently needed issues to deal with right now.

    • Pat 2.1

      you will note the quotation marks….the point I believe Brian Easton is making is that its all very well for the Coalition to address the problems (of which there are many) as they arise, but like previous administrations there is no overarching strategy (other than vague feel good slogans) ….if anything of substance is to be achieved, including reelection then this Gov needs to devote some energy (and PDQ) to strategic planning rather than wasting it all on firefighting….i’d suggest that its best opportunity to achieve this is with the Carbon Neutral 2050 policy due to be released early next year….but that is being led by a Minister outside Cabinet and support party member and is only a few months away so is it likely to provide such?

      • Ad 2.1.1

        In any government, the first year is their ideologically strongest.
        Both in beliefs and in polls it goes down from here.

      • Rosemary McDonald 2.1.2

        “Should I say something about the quality of people in the strategic policy group? Is it necessary to say that while they need to be sympathetic to a transformative government, the emphasis has to be on competence rather than political correctness? Perhaps I have to, for the government’s record thus far has to scatter an awful lot of politically correct incompetents through its advisory committees (but no more than predecessor governments).”

        The last bit deserves repeating.

        “….for the government’s record thus far has to scatter an awful lot of politically correct incompetents through its advisory committees (but no more than predecessor governments).”

        Brian Easton…

      • cleangreen 2.1.3

        Pat,

        We spoke at length to the Climate change “zero carbon” committee ‘team”‘ when they came to Napier and held their ‘road show’ last month.

        We used another emission problem that the comittee had not yet considered yet.

        That was about the ‘elephant in the room’ about the other large freight road transport emissions that were so badly affecting our climate and that was the “yyre dust emissions of small plastic particles that are shedding from truck tyres at an alarming rate that is now found on the ice caps and that black dust is now exellerating the melting of the ice caps.

        The whole panel was shunned like a mullet, and said they never throught of that as being a problem and now said they do so we hope they will now curtail road freight in favour of regional rail freight as trains dont use tyres and only steel wheels.

        Subject ; Tyre dust is another form of plastic so use rail it has steel wheels non-polluting. – ‘ Carbon emissions.’

        When you drive your car don’t forget that tyres are made from plastic too!!!
        So tyre dust is being spread all around the roads and into our water as we drive.

        Click to access 2017-002.pdf


        quote;
        3. Tyres: abrasion while driving Tyres get eroded when used. The particles are formed from the outer parts of the tyre and consist of a matrix of synthetic polymers, namely Styrene Butadiene Rubber (approximately 60%), in a mix with natural rubber and many other additives (Sundt et al., 2014). Tyre dust will then either be spread by the wind or washed off the road by rain. In this study, losses of synthetic rubber are considered but losses of natural rubber are not.

        There is no reliable information on the transfer of microplastics from tyres to the world’s oceans. Both Norwegian and Swedish researchers have pointed out that a large fraction of particles found in the sea seem to originate from car tyres (Essel et al., 2015; Sundt et al., 2014).
        End.

        Finally, the long term best solution is to use far more rail freight and passenger services to give funding to upgrade the rail network in all our regions to expand rail freight/passenger services.

        • Pat 2.1.3.1

          Rail and reducing pollution are key areas of any strategy IMO. I’d like to think that the electrification and expansion (at least of use) of the entire rail network could form part of an interconnected strategy….but one that is detailed, at least broadly costed and which has a timeline not deferred to some indeterminate future.

          • cleangreen 2.1.3.1.1

            Pat very good analogy of the way forward.

            We need to use solar panel backup power on wagons of freight trains and ‘reserve generation power systems’ (direct drive generators on the rail drive system) to also complete partical or total electricifation of rail use to caputure the way forward for even the most ardent opposers of rail use.

            Electric EV vehicles use these systems now so should trains use them.

            The new BMW EV models now have solar panels on the roof of their new EV models.

        • One Two 2.1.3.2

          Yes

          Not withstanding the health impacts to human beings and other life, from the toxic dust ge generated by break pads as well as tyres…

    • Tuppence Shrewsbury 2.2

      A free to air, government funded tv station, free from bias but doesn’t criticise the government?

      The stupidity of left leaning voters astounds me. How’s your subscription to that bastion of free press, pravda?

      • Hanswurst 2.2.1

        The post you replied to may not be the most clearly articulated of all time, but it would nonetheless take some pretty rank stupidity to get out of it what you did.

        • Tuppence Shrewsbury 2.2.1.1

          Idiot number 2, step on up!
          Did you miss the part where the original idiot talked about he national party media? Then demanded a free to air tv channel that is free from bias but only presented views the original idiot agrees with?

          • Hanswurst 2.2.1.1.1

            I can only suggest you read it again.

          • Cinny 2.2.1.1.2

            three cent biscuit….. aka tuppence shrewsbury….. do you really think calling people idiots is helping you? Good luck with that.

      • cleangreen 2.2.2

        Tuppence Shrewsbury is a right wing advocate are you not.

        So the corporate owned media dont critisise the government?

        That is a lie as the ‘commecial media do what their paymasters tell them to do so your theory is bunk.

        • Tuppence Shrewsbury 2.2.2.1

          They do. And what’s wrong wth that?

          My problem with your suggestions is that a government funded tv channel should only air views you approve of. Hardly bias free as you seem to imagine it would be. It would only be right wing bias free. Which

    • Carolyn_Nth 2.3

      One of the failures of the current Labour-led government, is the lack of urgency and limited expertise they have provided for revitalising public service media. It should have had high priority.

      Maybe Robertson has has got more contacts in the corporate media who he can feed lines/info to, and that he doesn’t have any similar contacts in RNZ?

      Public service media, at arms length from government, free from bias, and that holds all political parties and MPs to account, is absolutely necessary to democracy. Some non public service media journos also do that.

      However, corporate media puts much more focus on cheerleading private enterprise, and capitalist values, and pollies who support those things.

    • Peter 2.4

      I think I have to disagree with a free to air TV channel even though I would like one myself. I have two children in there twenties and thirties and both do not even have TV Aerials and none of their friends watch free to air TV, its really the older generation who watch it and they are unlikely to change the way they vote.

      • Carolyn_Nth 2.4.1

        Have a look at what TVNZ is doing – massive expansive of free to view online TV programmes and movies.

        That is what a public service TV channel can do – freeview plus ondemand viewing online.

        Clare Curran has totally ignored what can be done with TVNZ. It’s not just about current affairs. TVNZ ondemand has an LGBT stream, it has Scanadanavian TV programmes, it has documentaries, it has express shows available ondemand the same week as in the US, and I suspect it is pulling in some younger viewers.

  3. Jenny 3

    This is one major act of terrorism that won’t get any coverage in the Western media.

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180727-breaking-israel-storms-al-aqsa-compound-during-friday-prayers-shots-fired/

    • tc 3.1

      Add it to the list of Israeli agression and the continued 2 fingers to the world over occupied territories.

      Netanyahu is a war monger with USA backing….this only goes one way.

      • Tuppence Shrewsbury 3.1.1

        More like the last bastion of freedom against the tyrannical demands of the followers of an imaginary leader

        • In Vino 3.1.1.1

          Yes, the imaginary leader as portrayed in the first testament is indeed cruel and tyrannical. Perhaps this goes part of the way to explaining the Zionists’ behaviour.

          • Tuppence Shrewsbury 3.1.1.1.1

            If the state of Israel isn’t a Jewish state, as it’s not anti-Semitic to criticise it, then how can any logical person support theocracy over democracy?

            • In Vino 3.1.1.1.1.1

              Non- sequitur. Firstly, the state of Israel does not represent all Jews, and secondly, Israel has pretty well made itself a theocracy by giving privilege to only those who believe in the God of the first testament. Are there any Jewish atheists who are Israeli citizens? This puts the religion pretty well in control, regardless of whether the politicians are church officials.

              • rightly or wrongly

                Many Israelis consider themselves to be secular or atheists. Not exactly a theocracy.

                https://www.quora.com/What-is-it-like-to-live-in-Israel-and-be-an-atheist

                • In Vino

                  I’ll stick with the first non-sequitur, then. Although it intrigues me that Christians who are atheists tend not to regard themselves as Christians. (Apart from the few like Loyd Geering..) I must study your link to see how atheism links with the Jewish religion.

                  • In Vino

                    Well, what a nicey-nicey read. lots of concerns like ours about whether religion should be taught in schools, etc, but not one mention of how atheistic, secular Israelis justify their occupation of Palestinian territory.
                    It seems to me that atheistic, secular Jews can no longer maintain the argument that God Almighty Himself awarded the land to the Jews as the first testament claims. So upon what is their claim based? Sheer racism and ‘might is right’?
                    Or the even more tenuous one that they are not a theocracy? Are the Palestinians a theocracy?

    • One Two 3.2

      Global coverage of the Israeli lead ‘humanitarian rescue’ of the emmy award winning White Helmets was given…

      Somewhat inconsistent and selective coverage eh…

      What were your thoughs about the spontaneous and daring rescue of the assets known as the White Helmets, Jenny ?

      • Jenny 3.2.1

        2 thoughts;

        1/ “White Helmets and the their families….” sort of gives the lie to the Assad regime claim that these are all foreign jihadists, don’t you think?

        2/ With reports that White Helmet personal are being detained at government checkpoints. Taking the option of passing through regime lines to rebel held areas is not an option for members of the White Helmets because this is what awaits them.

        • One Two 3.2.1.1

          1. So, Israel….as a humanitarian gesture upon request…spontaneously and within a handful of hours time window….rounded up some 800 White Helmets and their families….

          Israel, being the humanitarians that they are, shooting children, women, men, medics, animals etc in Palestine…do a 180 and ‘rescue’ … who exactly…so what does Israels hypocrisy point likely point to…

          That Israel have been operating inside Syria an extended period of time, Jenny…that is what it points to…

          Then the humanitatians they are…do not take one single ‘rescued’ person…not a single one…

          Instead, the ‘rescued’ are being distributed like isis/al nusra cells openly to western nations…

          The alleged events to not pass the weakest sniff test…

          #2. Someone is lying…rescuers or sponsored moderate terror agents…

    • Ed 3.3

      There is a growing wave of repulsion around the world to the actions of the imperialist apartheid Zionist regime.

      • SaveNZ 3.3.1

        +1 Jenny, TC, One Two, Ed

        As well as all their victims killed and maimed also feel sorry for the jews who have the zionist regime aggressively “representing them” constantly in the media, against their will.

  4. Paaparakauta 4

    Ireland spurns fossil fuel investments.

    “In recent days members of the Dáil, the main law-making body in the Irish parliament, have passed a bill which will mean no more money goes into exploiting and using the coal, oil and gas which are among the principal drivers of global climate change.”

    https://www.resilience.org/stories/2018-07-26/ireland-spurns-fossil-fuel-investments/

    • cleangreen 4.1

      Pity NZ Government are having some upset about their meek movements to cut oil eploration. Perhaps they should cut all funding to the petroleum industry that National set up.

    • Robert Guyton 5.1

      “Howard got *rapturous applause when he labelled the election result “disappointing and unjust and unfair”.”
      * when raptors clap their wings

      • greywarshark 5.1.1

        The rain it raineth every day upon the just and unjust fella,
        But more upon the just because
        The unjust took the just’s umbrella!

        Go, Labour Coalition, the new unjust. And keep the umbrella up rain or shine to
        protect against bird droppings from the just – this time a kookaburra (a laughing jackass).

        • Yes and Kookaburras laugh before rain!!

          • greywarshark 5.1.1.1.1

            Howard yabbering here is another example of us co-ordinating with Australia as if we are on equal terms while they cherry-pick out criminals who have learned their habits in Australia. Bet most of them are Maori or brownies not whities. It’s an affront to our free country which aims for equality.
            But equality with Australia is an uneasy see saw. They sent their army into native land to organise or control Aborigines. This country had the police militarised and went after Tuhoe.)
            (Some of our egregious fraudsters live in Oz. But they committed their crimes in NZ so that mightn’t count there.) Thdugj h they were so worried by\\about an ordinary crim that he wasn’t allowed over the Ditch to saw farewell to his dying mother.(

    • bwaghorn 5.2

      Howard’s yet another moron to thick to understand mmp it would appear.

      • veutoviper 5.2.1

        Two petty (on my part, I admit) things about John Howard:

        1. He shares his birthday date (26 July) with Jacinda Ardern. He turned 79 on Thursday; she turned 38 – a difference of 41 years (= Simon Bridges’ age.)

        2. The last listing in his very long Wikipedia bio – In 2017, Howard endorsed a “No” vote in the Australian Marriage Law Postal Survey and joined the campaign against same-sex marriage.

        Says it all to me.

    • Incognito 5.3

      I quite enjoyed this by-line:

      *Tracy Watkins: After being forced into opposition, National is rolling out the big guns [my bold]

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/105807472/tracy-watkins-after-the-pain-of-last-years-defeat-national-is-rolling-out-the-big-guns

      During the negotiations somebody (most likely Winston) held a ‘gun’ to their heads and threatened to ‘sue’ them if they made NZF a better offer than Labour. They caved in and the rest is history, as they say. Yeah, ‘forced’ they were 😉

    • Paaparakauta 5.4

      John Howard still has questions to answer about his role in the overthrow of Gough Whitlam.
      He was deputy prime minister under Malcolm Fraser in the ensuing government.

    • Carolyn_Nth 5.5

      John Howard – so knowledgeable about how democracy works with MMP. He should do, under Aussie fPtP, he was part of a Coalition Government.

      Could either the Liberal or National parties ever have been able to form a government on their own?

      Aus Labor must be seething after decades of unfairness!

      • dukeofurl 5.5.1

        Howard is getting doddery….in Australia labour is the largest party- were they robbed?

        Coalition Government is :
        Liberal Party
        National party
        Liberal national party (qld)
        Country Liberals ( NT)
        WA Nationals

    • Incognito 5.6

      Is Max DJ-ing at the National Annual Conference and playing that winning tune Lose Yourself again and again? Where is Max? And Jason??

      Are Sir John and Barack in the country to play a round of golf?

      It is the same old (mostly white) faces from the past in the same old place, the Sky City Convention Centre for National.

      All so disappointingly predictable; so sad to see the once mighty self-entitled born-to-rule politicians wallowing in self-pity and withering away in the Hellish pit that is known as Opposition.

    • Exkiwiforces 5.7

      What an ass old Rat Eyes is becoming in his old age just as well that Tracey Watkins didn’t ask the Mad Monk for his two shillings worth on last years election.

    • Hooch 5.8

      Interestingly the only policy bridges mentions is reinstating charter schools. But that was an ACT policy was it not? It’s almost as if National have been using ACT as a front to intoduce policy at arms length…

      As an aside I see Paul goldsmith has been getting a lot of airtime (for someone who has preferred invisibility) lately, perhaps they’re getting ready to shove Seymour under the bus in epsom.

      • greywarshark 5.8.1

        Hooch
        It’s almost as if National have been using ACT as a front to intoduce policy at arms length…
        I think you have hit the nail here. In one blow too without hitting your thumb!

    • tc 5.9

      And there DP driven electoral wins were all totally above board.

  5. Anne 6

    At long last the global media are crawling out from their hidey-holes and acknowledging the disastrous effects of Climate Change. It should have happened years ago but better late than never:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jul/27/extreme-global-weather-climate-change-michael-mann

    • Ed 6.1

      Yes. At last.
      Even the words cc appeared in the Herald.

      “Climate change is supercharging a hot and dangerous Northern Hemisphere summer.”

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12096744

      • Anne 6.1.1

        They’ve finally stopped hedging their bets on the basis that the CC Deniers of yesteryear were worthy of equal attention. Since they weren’t sure which side was going to win the argument (as if it was a political or ideological issue) they erred on the side of caution and avoided using the term. The same can be said of most governments.

        Heads should roll based on gross stupidity and neglect.

        • Ed 6.1.1.1

          Tragically and criminally, they have started writing too late for us to mitigate many of the impacts of industrial capitalism.
          The deaths of millions lie at the hands of the corporate media.

    • cleangreen 6.2

      Anne,

      No doubt the right wingers will still bury their arses in the sand until the water level surprasses their ability to breath under water or sand and either they snuff their lives out or they get on board with us and get serious about curtailing the carbon emissions of trucks and use rail.

      • greywarshark 6.2.1

        cleangreen
        I am suprised that you underrate the actions of the entitled wealthy to climate change spread and rise, you are usually more direct. I hope you will get your local transport issues and climate change and lost opportunities to mitigate proverty dealt to quickly and intelligently.

        To escape climate change (cc) effects the comfortable will attempt to save themselves; they will climb on other’s bodies like desperate people escaping a cellar fire or a stadium stampede, or they will divest others of their resources and leave them with no defences or way of exiting. This is not hyperbole, it is observable from past events, and can be forecast from the tone and behaviour of those in positions of power today. Where there is leadership it often is puny and lacking in determination and practicality and psychology of human behaviour.

  6. Draco T Bastard 7

    Missed this one back in March:

    A US study has found there’s an optimal earnings point that makes individuals happy.

    In New Zealand that “optimal” salary is $171,000, according to research from Purdue University in West Lafayette.

    That’s around three times the average wage of ~$50,000

    If that is the optimal point then we should probably cap incomes just above that.

    • cleangreen 7.1

      NZ equals = a low wage economy. equals = slave labour economy. equals a unhappy place.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1

        True but we can change that if we work to do so. Just started reading The Case for a maximum wage. Which is actually a misnomer as he’s actually talking about a maximum income set as a multiple of the minimum wage:

        A far simpler and much bolder approach – and the approach that these pages advocate – would be to set a new income maximum as a multiple of the existing minimum wage. Any income above that multiple would face a tax set at 100 percent.

        He thinks that such a system gets buy in from everyone and thus the rich won’t be able to get rid of it the same way that they got rid of high tax rates.

        EDIT:
        I like the point he makes here:

        What could we do? We could narrow our initial focus, from societies writ large to a pivotal single element within our societies: the corporate enterprise. These enterprises largely determine who gets what in our modern nations. Down through the years, progressive tax rates have traditionally sought to redistribute the income that corporations have so unequally predistributed. But, egalitarians are now asking, why give this inequality a head start? We need to do more, they argue, than redistribute income. We need to much more equally predistribute it.

        The path to a “maximum wage” begins with this predistribution.

        My bold.

        • greywarshark 7.1.1.1

          I have come to the conclusion that there is a no default setting in humans that wuill be happy to say enough at any advanced wage structure. Happiness is a warm gun? (Beatles)

          I think it is only poor people that appreciate the advantage of each $ of wage rise. In business studies they used to talk about ‘hygiene’ as somethingto do finding ways to reward and incentivise high earners when they became ‘ blase’ types who already had everything.

          Getting buy-in from people with Affluenza for capping their wages could be like stopping elephants drunk on excesses of fermented fruit. You can imagine!

          • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.1.1

            It’s not going to be easy but it does need to be done.

            As the author points out we had much better distribution and equality when top tax rates were high because it got to the point that having a higher income made no difference because of the high tax rates and so more was given to the workers.

            This way also gets buy in from the rich as when the minimum income goes up so does their maximum income.

            It’s just going to be difficult putting such a system in place.

            • greywarshark 7.1.1.1.1.1

              DTB
              Yes. Well I did note that business studies were aware of the problem of satiation with top execs. So perhaps some sort of sideways promotion so they feel they have progressed even though the increase is income is foregone because it has gone into tax.

              What if their top tax percentages go into an investment fund that helps to finance small, progressive, innovative businesses that advance the country’s sustainable industry or something. I think there is a crowd now called No. 8 Wire that does something like that. If the top bananas regard investing in the infrastructure and services that help with welfare a waste going into a bottomless pit, perhaps they could be satisfied to see the top percentage/s being used for development of small ‘fireflies’.

    • Bearded Git 7.2

      The mean household income in NZ in 2017 was $107000…lots of unhappy people out there.

  7. greywarshark 8

    The business-mania that sweeps over everyone and rains leaflets emblazoned with gold dollars onto every gathering of Commerce enables the fish farm industry to keep harping on about their exponential growth prospects even though they know that fish farms lead to pollution and disease of both the farmed and wild fish.

    But, but the world is crying out for our fish. And will pay big money for it.

    Oh well all right then. Go ahead and don't worry, we will have some technology to clean up after you. We will breed bigger fish that like it or grow seaweed that will process it and magically make all clean and clear again. And don't forget to talk about employment to be offered, Which needs to be over 50 at least I should think, to sound attractive enough and kill off support for informed protest,
    /sarc, but not very.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018655326/could-salmon-farming-become-the-new-dairy

    • SaveNZ 8.1

      More private industry taking over public resources and not paying anything to the public for the risk as well as getting corporate welfare of $3 million plus from government to boot. When it all goes wrong, don’t worry the public and environment will suffer to pay for it.

      Lots of bad press about these salmon farms and the food they feed them which is often from aggressively taking from ocean ecosystems which is a turn off.

      I used to eat this salmon but for some reason as well as the above concerns, the quality has got worse and worse, not sure if it is the salmon, what they are eating, where they are processing it, or how old it is or some other process like freezing it and defrosting it incorrectly. The texture is wrong.

      Am wondering if Arctic salmon often cheaper and processed in Denmark is a better bet as at least have the EU regulations on quality?

      • greywarshark 8.1.1

        Interesting saenz. From personal point of view, I want to eat a bit more salmon in my diet as part of thinning my blood intelligently, trying. Will look up references mentioned.

      • Graeme 8.1.2

        Re the quality of “farmed” salmon. It’s to do with reduced muscle tone from having the pens in still water, the fish don’t have to work for a living.

        Early on the farms were located where there was a reasonable tidal flow to disperse the waste, but this got expensive because the pens would break free or get damaged, so they moved to stiller water. Hence quality went down and effects went up. There’s also big variations in quality of what they are fed.

        If you get down South, compare the quality of product from the different operations in the McKenzie. Some are in the flowing canals, some are in calm backwaters.

        • greywarshark 8.1.2.1

          Graeme
          I will have to look at this to understand it properly. But I glanced at the
          report from Radionz and they were talking about getting into faster flowing deeper sea water so wouln’t they get the same problem they had before with cages breaking away. I think they are havering. (Old Scottish word that has stayed in my brain., sort of means ‘having people on, talking to confuse.)

      • Grey Area 8.1.3

        You could of course make an ethical choice to not eat animal flesh at all.

        • greywarshark 8.1.3.1

          Graeme
          I would like to make an ethical choice to die when I choose but am not allowed to do that by supposedly well-meaning individuals and groups.
          That is something useful that I would do, but am prevented from doing it.

          Giving up animal flesh – fish, chicken, red or white meat is not something that I can concentrate at present, it is the possibility of losing my vision that is concentrating my mind at present. Also I want to keep my health so I can continue having ability to work for a better future than the very bad scenario we are sinking into and that takes up all my energy and fills my thoughts.

          I am old and haven’t many years of intelligent life left. I don’t know if or when dementia will strike me. I think and write here and in the community trying to help the young needy, and promote understanding and assist others demonstrate to the wider public their ways of coping with the disaster that is underlying NZs complacent rock star economy.

          So don’t toss simplistic single ideas at me that don’t help me in my efforts to manage my way through the confusing set of barriers erected to prevent good management by our government, central and local.

          The single line comment that derails the comment being replied to is common on this blog. It s actually derisory about the problem that a commenter has raised and doesn’t attempt to discuss the matter. If something comes up that isn’t just a tendentious rerun of a continuing disagreement, it deserves more than a throwaway line.

          • greywarshark 8.1.3.1.1

            Sorry Graeme
            I got your comment mixed with that from Grey Area. Excuse is having eyesight problems at moment. And didn’t check to see whose moniker was on the relevant comment. Sorry again.
            And Grey Area thank you, not, for your flip reply. How grey are you?

  8. Draco T Bastard 9

    Facebook is sued after stock plunge ‘shocked’ market

    NEW YORK (Reuters) – Facebook Inc (FB.O) and its chief executive Mark Zuckerberg were sued on Friday in what could be the first of many lawsuits over a disappointing earnings announcement by the social media company that wiped out about $120 billion of shareholder wealth.

    Of course $120 billion wasn’t really wiped out – it didn’t exist in the first place and is part of the bludging aspect of capitalism that’s destroying society.

    • greywarshark 9.1

      Interesting that your comment came just after earlier discussion on fishfarming problems.

      It has been said that the stock exchange behaves like a school of fish turning and twisting in a slick, fast moving mass as predators loom. They are full of hot air anyway in the SX as you mention. And our employment hangs on their feelings of confidence – or flatulence! Makes you larf really don’t it. In a dismal sort of way.

    • Incognito 9.2

      Of course $120 billion wasn’t really wiped out – it didn’t exist in the first place and is part of the bludging aspect of capitalism that’s destroying society.

      The same applies to QV; the whole FIRE economy vitally depends on it – it is their raison d’être.

      If not invented by capitalists, paper value (profit & loss) surely is one of their most loved and abused instruments.

  9. adam 10

    Why are there no black Koch brothers?

    That is an interesting question put forward by Center for Public Integrity.

    What do people think, why is that?

    Why are not rich Maori here funding far right groups?

  10. marty mars 12

    Lol Winnie skewering Bennett – ‘they go for the smallest and weakest one …’ lol classic.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/105828141/fresh-hostilities-erupt-between-winston-peters-and-national

  11. joe90 14

    Well, this is a fucking scary read.

    To grasp what is going on in the world right now, we need to reflect on two things. One is that we are in a phase of trial runs. The other is that what is being trialled is fascism – a word that should be used carefully but not shirked when it is so clearly on the horizon. Forget “post-fascist” – what we are living with is pre-fascism.

    […]

    To see, as most commentary has done, the deliberate traumatisation of migrant children as a “mistake” by Trump is culpable naivety. It is a trial run – and the trial has been a huge success. Trump’s claim last week that immigrants “infest” the US is a test-marketing of whether his fans are ready for the next step-up in language, which is of course “vermin”. And the generation of images of toddlers being dragged from their parents is a test of whether those words can be turned into sounds and pictures. It was always an experiment – it ended (but only in part) because the results were in.

    ‘Devious’ infants

    And the results are quite satisfactory. There is good news on two fronts. First, Rupert Murdoch is happy with it – his Fox News mouthpieces outdid themselves in barbaric crassness: making animal noises at the mention of a Down syndrome child, describing crying children as actors. They went the whole swinish hog: even the brown babies are liars. Those sobs of anguish are typical of the manipulative behaviour of the strangers coming to infest us – should we not fear a race whose very infants can be so devious? Second, the hardcore fans loved it: 58 per cent of Republicans are in favour of this brutality. Trump’s overall approval ratings are up to 42.5 per cent.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-trial-runs-for-fascism-are-in-full-flow-1.3543375

  12. Red Blooded One 15

    Watching TV1 News, was that Sir Les Patterson at the National Party Conference? Has anyone seen him and John Howard in the same room at the same time?

  13. The Chairman 16

    Came across this singer (below) watching “The Spinoff TV”

  14. Jilly Bee 17

    What a tasteless, crass but totally predictable comment by the president of the National Party at their conference to the gathered faithful to slaver over.
    ‘National Party President Peter Goodfellow has mounted an attack on Acting Prime Minister Winston Peters, saying National had “dodged a whisky-swilling, cigarette-smoking, double-breasted and irrational bullet”.’ Of course no National MPs ever frequent Bellamys to have a tipple or two or sneak out for a fag or two either. I’m no N Z First voter or supporter, but for better or worse they are part of the present coalition so be it.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12097023

    • McFlock 17.1

      It just goes to show they haven’t learned a damned thing.

      Come the next election there’s a good chance that they will once again have to negotiate with Winston or someone who likes him. But not, the nats will call him names and bitch about how unfair democracy is.

      I give them as much sympathy as they give people who need benefits to live: none at all. Just contempt, scorn, and low regard. Goodfellow may be, but bad politician.

  15. Tricledrown 18

    Fanatics fuck things up in Vino the majority of every religion want peace love and prosperity the minority want to rule and cause division uncivilised fools.

  16. The shame of the National Party – coming home to roost:

    Warm Hearts: All Kiwi kids deserve a fair go – NZ Herald
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid

  17. eco maori 20

    The national party displayed there true values when they had that fallout with Winston Peters all those years ago and they showed it on there election campaign with the word lazy don’t want to work don’t want to work those words of bill’s were directed at tangata whenua . And there next move was to try and throw Winston under the bus.
    Then the aggressors switch hats and act as a victim when they lost the seemingly un lose able election .I see this behavior all the time the aggressor switch hats at the blink of the eye and cry foul.
    The big picture is one cannot go around displaying arrogance and think that your culture and thoughts are the only ones that counts why . because you end up with no m8. Well here you go national The Maori Language and culture is get a revival not just in Aotearoa but right around Papatuanuku Kia kaha tangata whenua this fact gives me a sore face Ka kite ano link below.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/28/google-disney-maori-new-zealand

  18. Eco Maori 21

    The big picture is the sandflys are upset that there national m8 are warming the back benches. This is the party that gave them laws to do what ever they want and not be held accountable for there actions they change the bail laws so one can be locked up with out a crime been proven that’s room for deception I say how well they say plead guilt and you will get a lesser charger they don’t care that the charge will stuff up the person life just so long as they get more credit for a promotion. national also made it harder to get a fair trial by making legal aid harder to get what.s the consequences Its a breach of human rights to a fair trial that’s one of the consequence of those changes.The other is they get more leverage to get a guilty plee more cridits for a pay rise.
    The sandflys won’t like it that there prison muster has lowered by 500 because to ECO MAORI the law changes the sandflys lobbied for were designed to make it easier for them to lock up people full stop. Ana to kai Ka kite ano

  19. Eco Maori 22

    If the sandflys try anything against my offspring I will appel it to the highest court of te whenua to get justice that’s the law of te whenua. Ka kite ano

  20. Eco Maori 23

    I just read a story in North and South mag on Matt Robertson he was a Alince mp the year is 2001 this will seam like last century to some but to ECO Maori its just yesterday. Here are some of the truth full statement he made it’s only the poor common people who go to jail.
    We have the second recorded for the most people’s locked up in jail the most was USA half the people in prison are Maori the highest group of people are male 15 to 24 age groups. He also states that to some they are just numbers but to him there’s are OUR babys that we are locking up someone’s son And I totally agree with that statement the young are easily lead to make mistake. It cost $50.000 to lock up someone in those days 18 years later its dubble $100.000.
    He has figures that show if we invest in early intervention it’s is %50 more likely to change the Mokopunas future for the better than waiting till the are being changed with a crime so 70 % for early intervention to 15% when they are in the system. So what’s the big picture equality shear the putea that Aotearoa gives us more equaly and all the bad stats will go down Its not Rocket science people it’s common sense to do this and this is what our Coalition Government is doing at the minute. Ka kite ano

  21. Eco Maori 24

    Kia kaha Joseph Parker you did us proud.
    It stinks that the opperstion did not get more points taken of for a head but I didn’t realise that was part of boxing rules makes a mockery of the sport.
    Just like the systems in Atoearoa.
    Ka kite ano

  22. Eco Maori 25

    Here we go the European Union is going to stamp out demarcat elections voter beening minupulate by there computers IE being sold lies by target ad verts the kumara never tells how sweet it is Ka pai. Eco Maori could see that happening tangata being sold lies like the one we’re the people are coned into believing a billion are has their best interests at heart come on Ana to kai
    Ka kite ano link below PS all government should do the same most common tangata are so trust worthy they trust what’s being feed to them because they would not deceive anyone on that scale

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/28/democracy-threatened-malicious-technology-eu-fighting-back

  23. Eco Maori 26

    And what do you know the person who set up Cambridge analytical is a friend of the national party. Cheats like two peas in a pod Ka kite ano

  24. Eco Maori 27

    As I walk around Atoearoa and read MSM I can see the ECO MAORI effect all I can say is that its positive for the common tangata. Kia kaha Ka kite ano

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