Open mike 28/10/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:48 am, October 28th, 2014 - 167 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

mickey savage wonders wtf ht william joyceOpen mike is your post.

The Standard is not a conspiracy – just a welcome outlet for the expression of views. Leaders that command respect will not be undermined by this.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

167 comments on “Open mike 28/10/2014 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. phillip ure 1
    28 October 2014 at 6:52 am

    “..John Oliver Calls Out Sugar Industry..

    ..How much sugar are you eating?

    Odds are you don’t know – and as John Oliver pointed out Sunday on ‘Last Week Tonight’ –

    -it’s because food makers are doing their best to make sure you never find out..”

    (cont..)

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/27/john-oliver-sugar-peanuts_n_6052298.html

    • Paul 1.1
      28 October 2014 at 7:40 am

      A good follow up to Nigel Latta’s expose of the sugar industry in NZ.
      Katherine Rich ( ex Nat MP ) is the hired gun for the sugar industry.
      I think they used Slater to attack people who questioned the sugar industry.

      http://tvnz.co.nz/nigel-latta/index-group-6006369

      • phillip ure 1.1.1
        28 October 2014 at 8:10 am

        rich pimps for the sugar-pushers..

        ..and other rightwinger/actite heather roy now pimps for big-pharma..

        ..classy..!..

        ..both of them earning their dirty-money by/for essentially..selling us out..

        (and funny story..!..i had forgotten roys’ name..so i googled ‘act mp big-pharma’..)

        ..first link/hit..?..bingo..!..heather roy…)

      • boldsirbrian 1.1.2
        28 October 2014 at 8:11 am

        Lewis Road Creamery Chocolate Milk, with queues of customers waiting for delivery every day. Each bottle contains 22 pieces of (delicious) Whittakers chocolate (half a chocolate slab).

        Twenty two pieces …….. Glug glug glug.

        A second drink, perhaps? Or a glass of coke to ‘wash it down’?
        Could I please have a side order of diabetes?

        Thanks Katherine.

        Chocolate Milk comparison
        (personal experiment)

        • phillip ure 1.1.2.1
          28 October 2014 at 8:22 am

          it’s also measured as 82 grams..3+ ounces..or 21 teaspoons of sugar..

          ..it is like the crack of sugar..

          ..that’s what those idiots/fools/suckers are queuing to pay top-dollar for..

          ..’there’s one (a sucker) born every minute’..eh..?

          ..and today we can know them by their chosen/favoured brand of chocolate milk..

          ..eh..?

          ..(do we have sugar-lift-off..?..)

          ..(and those rushing out to buy/stock up on milk chocolate on the back of that research (funded by mars bars..(!)..)

          ..that chocolate is good for aging-minds/memories..

          ..should know those results were found after using almost pure cocao..

          ..which is sure as hell not what you get in the sugary-delights offered by..i dunno.!…milk-chocolate/the mars company..?..)

          • boldsirbrian 1.1.2.1.1
            29 October 2014 at 12:59 am

            @ phillip ure (1.1.2.1)

            The research referred to was some blind taste testing with dinner guests, that I carried out . Nothing to do with Mars. I was trying to understand if the queues could really be justified on the basis of taste, and also highlight the foolishness of the queues on the basis of health.

            Keep on the good work talking about sugar.

    • ianmac 1.2
      28 October 2014 at 9:16 am

      Good one phillip. Sugar is a bad bad word. And thanks to Nigel Latta for his more detailed program.

  2. Paul 2
    28 October 2014 at 7:34 am

    Did anyone hear Key’s interview with Espiner on RNZ this morning?
    It sounded to me like he was positioning us for military action.
    Oh dear.

    • mickysavage 2.1
      28 October 2014 at 7:37 am

      Yep he was floored by the question by Espiner about whether it was moral for NZ to enter the war. I thought he had difficulties understanding the concept of morality.

      • Peter 2.1.1
        28 October 2014 at 8:03 am

        I have looked in vain for six years for any suggestions that Mr Key has a moral base. Right now the National Party is a convenient vehicle to satisfy his personal interests. Hopefully somone can explain why my view has no substance, as I would like to think better of him?

        • Tracey 2.1.1.1
          28 October 2014 at 8:09 am

          Made a career in currency trading. Made 50m in the financial sector. You have to have very selective morality to get as far as he did…

          There are no flawlessly ethical guys at the top of banking or money market trading… they are loophole boys, rationalisers of untruths.

        • Westiechick 2.1.1.2
          28 October 2014 at 11:07 am

          I think he has said himself that he is not an “ideology” type of person. The only thing I recall he has said he that believes in are asset sales. Is there another living NZer that cannot recall what they thought about the Springbok tour? When he first came out with this I thought he was lying. Now I actually believe it.

      • politikiwi 2.1.2
        28 October 2014 at 1:15 pm

        A common trait in psychopaths.

      • emergency mike 2.1.3
        28 October 2014 at 1:20 pm

        Yep one of his answers to ‘is it moral’ was “It is if we agree to that.” So what is moral is what we agree is moral.

        That might be an interesting philosophical stance on ethics al la David Hume, but I for one would like a stance less cynical from our leader that doesn’t smack of focus group analysis on this issue. Higher standards anyone?

      • Murray Rawshark 2.1.4
        28 October 2014 at 6:26 pm

        I don’t think he has any idea. He is totally amoral. I can recognise it because I was like that until I grew up a bit in my late 20s. As far as his philosophy goes, it’s a weird mix of Aleister Crowley and Nietsche, mixed with a desire for acceptance from those he worships. As a human being, he is hugely dysfunctional.

    • vto 2.2
      28 October 2014 at 7:43 am

      Of course he is Paul.

      And to make matters worse Key knew he would be doing this if re-elected yet he deceitfully declined to raise the matter during the election.

      Key is going to bring war and death into our country.

    • tc 2.3
      28 October 2014 at 7:47 am

      Why is that such a surprise, the ‘terror’ narrative arrived within a week of the election duely pushed by the MSM muppets so top diversionary tactic whilst the RMA, employment, exploration and sell offs etc etc continue.

      kiwi soldiers bodies being returned home will be another unwanted legacy of key as he marches them off and increases our risk once we engage.

      this govt has no moral compass just a monetary one.

      • phillip ure 2.3.1
        28 October 2014 at 7:59 am

        when key was saying earlier this year that he ‘had no intention of taking nz into another middle-east war’..

        ..i was writing/calling ‘bullshit!’ on that..

        ..and that if re-elected..that five minutes later key would morph into spear-carrier/war-monger for america..

        ..to me at the time..it seemed the bleeding obvious..

        ..i am actually surprised people are surprised that this is how it has turned out..

        ..as key now marches us into yet another intractable sectarian/religious-war..as americas’ mercenaries..

        ..killing more arabs..for america..again..

        ..and of course..in the process..painting a big fucken bulls-eye on nz..

        ..as a soft-target for retaliatory-attacks..(!)

        (of course key also lied until the un seat was secured..playing the peacemaker up until then..did anyone else also notice that..?..)

        ..and 21,000 civilians were killed by the invading/occupying forces in afghanistan..

        ..i wonder how many were killed in our name..?

      • greywarshark 2.3.2
        28 October 2014 at 1:36 pm

        If the gummint has a monetary compass I wish they would set up an expedition, go and find it and pay the workers better!!

    • Tracey 2.4
      28 October 2014 at 8:07 am

      This morning on the news about David cameron the journalist said all western leaders were on high alert since the canadian parliament incident.

      I was at dinner sunday evening when the Pm arrived. There was no pre dinner sweep of the restaurant, he arrived with his wife and son, alone. NO guards, none of his special big boys. They were not discreetly outside they were nowhere…

      So, NOT on high alert here.

      BUT maybe he was dining as John Key the man, and not PM. The terrorists will probably respect that distinction aye?

      He needs to be truthful. This isn’t about NZers, it is that he believes we should play a part alongside our allies. There are many who agree with that thinking so why not just say it, Honest John?

      • vto 2.4.1
        28 October 2014 at 8:20 am

        Perhaps Tracey, Key was having a last meal before sending his son off to fight war against ISIS …….

        • adam 2.4.1.1
          28 October 2014 at 11:31 am

          I’ve said before, how many of the jingoistic types will send their own children. I note, John Keys daughter the right age to fight – should she not be running off to basic?

          • phillip ure 2.4.1.1.1
            28 October 2014 at 1:09 pm

            no – no – no – no..!

            ..armchair-warriors always send other peoples’ children to war..

            ..and funny story..!..they are usually the children of the poor..

            ..those children who are sent to war..

            ..no parnell boys there..

      • cogito 2.4.2
        28 October 2014 at 12:50 pm

        Seeing Key would have spoilt my meal. In fact, it would have spoilt my whole evening.

        • Tracey 2.4.2.1
          28 October 2014 at 12:55 pm

          i didnt see him… heads turned, conversations lowered and my right wing dad and his wife said he had arrived. he sat at a table behind me. i had eaten so it was just a question of keeping it down.

          when i stood to leave, i was so tempted to say lousd enough

          “i see the terror threat is very low tonight”… but didnt

          he has good taste in restaurants. hes come in before when i was there…

          not suggesting he is stalking me

  3. Adrian 3
    28 October 2014 at 8:17 am

    But Tracey did you notice the casually dressed but awkward bloke who came in a few minutes before maybe with a companion, who could have been man or a woman, and the lone diner who came in a bit later or who stayed hanging around the door or feigned interest in the shop windows in the vicinity.
    Key is paranoid, but increasingly aware that more NZers think the whole “entourage” thing is preposterous posing

    • Tracey 3.1
      28 October 2014 at 12:26 pm

      hmmmm….i hang around the minties bowl myself

    • politikiwi 3.2
      28 October 2014 at 1:19 pm

      The entourage thing is US-style politics invading New Zealand. Have you seen the motorcades that travel with the likes of Eric Holder? Not even the President.

      I bet Steven Joyce et al. are frothing at the mouth for a personal security detail.

  4. karol 4
    28 October 2014 at 8:42 am

    “Dirty Journalism” post by Bat Bean Beam is a must read. Asks all the right questions about journalists in NZ and the failure to change anything substantial since the release of Hager’s Dirty Politics book:

    And while Nicky Hager is constantly questioned about the ethics of his working with stolen correspondence, none of the reporters who have collaborated with Slater have had to defend the public interest value of their stories against the danger of exposing others to Whaleoil. Yet that is also where the naivety defence falls apart: for nobody can claim not to have known what that blog was about. There is no excuse.

  5. Draco T Bastard 5
    28 October 2014 at 9:37 am

    An Unfair Wages System

    “We are always told that wages shouldn’t rise unless productivity rises. Well, productivity rose 48% from 1990 to 2010 – but after inflation, the average wage rose only 18%. This is a fundamentally unfair wages system, caused in large part by the lack of bargaining power that working people – wage and salary earners – have suffered.”

    For a lot of people, those in the lower decile, as productivity has risen their wages have actually gone down.

    It’s a simple fact that, if everything else remains the same, as productivity increases wages must decline. This government and all governments going back to the 4th Labour government have been working to keep everything else the same in the name of stability and with that has come the inevitable decrease in bargaining power and remuneration.

    • Aerobubble 5.1
      28 October 2014 at 10:59 am

      Oh, look, IT just increased productivity, had nothing to do with employees!
      I must be due a bonus, and my banker can leverage the new ongoing wealth to sustain even higher valuations.
      It must be great to live in a world when citizens are widgets, expendable moveable parts, where discourse about finance is all about how wealth is mismeasird and allotted to a shrinking class of super rich and their hanger on-ers.
      Key screws us all, locking away choice.

  6. Clemgeopin 6
    28 October 2014 at 9:53 am

    Help Shut Down the Illegal and extremely cruel Dog Meat Trade in Thailand. Watch the video to understand what is happening there.

    Please act immediately to stop thousands of dogs from being tortured and butchered for their meat.

    Every aspect of the dog meat trade in Southeast Asia is horrifically cruel.

    You can save thousands of dogs from unspeakable pain by adding your name to Soi Dog’s global petition. It calls on Thailand’s leaders to crack down hard on the criminals who profit from the agony of animals.

    https://savedogs.soidog.org/petition

    • phillip ure 6.1
      28 October 2014 at 9:58 am

      @ clem..

      ..a slight amendment/edit could be needed there..

      “..Every aspect of the meat trade is horrifically cruel..”

      ..there ya go..!

      ..fixed now..!

      ..we wouldn’t want selective/speciesist-outrage to break out..would we now..?

      ..i mean..!..people might choke on their bacon..

      ..so..”..Please act immediately to stop thousands of dogs(pigs/calves/chooks etc.) from being tortured and butchered for their meat..”

      ..we should try for consistancy..eh..?

  7. KJS0ne 7
    28 October 2014 at 9:59 am

    Even conservative John Armstrong has something bad to say about National’s housing ‘reform’ (read: sell off all the shit to our corporate funders for pennies on the dollar). Armstrong refers to the policy as ideological for ideology’s sake.

    National is continuing its policy of strip mining all the assets of the state, thus breaking a promise it made that there would be no more selling. They are behaving like a mafia that has taken over a business to squeeze every last dollar out of it before they send it into bankruptcy.

    History tells us that the invisible hand is NOT the best solution to social problems. One of the main jobs of Government is dealing with the negative externalities the invisible hand creates in the first place, which is in essence what state housing is an example of – Providing where the market can’t, or won’t without the introduction of overbearing regulation.

    Interesting read:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/john-armstrong/news/article.cfm?a_id=3&objectid=11347878

    • Tracey 7.1
      28 October 2014 at 12:30 pm

      only cos we are past the election and he is getting his balance reporting in now to refer back to nearer the next election

  8. travellerev 8
    28 October 2014 at 10:08 am

    Money Wars, A Race To The Bottom And Massive Wealth Transfer Or Why The $ 523 Billion Printed In August 2012 Is Bad News For New Zealanders

    • Murray Rawshark 8.1
      28 October 2014 at 6:46 pm

      They sold $521 million in August this year. Only a thousand times less, and 2 years later.

  9. Raa 9
    28 October 2014 at 10:20 am

    Isis will “rain carnage on the world”, Prime Minister John Key tells us today … but he has yet to make a decision on whether NZ troops will go.

    What sort of apocalyptic theology does he subscribe to these days ? Revelations ?
    Will a NZ SAS haka have any effect on the Saudis and Qataris who used Chlorine at Kobane ? Is he referring to ballistic mass destruction ?

    He may wish retire to a professorship in strategic decision making at Auckland University.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11349273&ref=rss

    • Molly 9.1
      28 October 2014 at 10:27 am

      “Rain carnage on the world”?

      Isn’t this phrase indicative of the breathtaking level of arrogance of our current PM – given the carnage unremittedly being dropped from the sky creating vast civilian casualties is primarily and immorally being committed by his US “allies”?

      • Westiechick 9.1.1
        28 October 2014 at 11:18 am

        The carnage being rained is a direct result of the insane invasion of Iraq which Key wanted NZ to be part of. So we could sell more butter to the yanks. Still need to shift more of it…

      • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 9.1.2
        28 October 2014 at 12:57 pm

        Did he himself actually come up with that turn of phrase? Seriously?

    • BassGuy 9.2
      28 October 2014 at 10:58 am

      He’s just making sure that when we send our troops over, we know we’re doing A Good Thing, because otherwise we might have some public pressure to the contrary.

  10. millsy 10
    28 October 2014 at 10:48 am

    Last time I looked, it was nation states with developed economies, and strong military forces that were capable of raining carnage on the world, not a bunch of Koran waving teenagers with a couple of stolen MiGs.

    • mac1 10.1
      28 October 2014 at 11:39 am

      Millsy, we are very selective about which people who are doing harm in the world that we should visit with our strong military forces, that as you say are capable of raining carnage on the world. Let us not forget that Vietnam received triple the bombing that took place in all of WWII !

      In relationship to all this, I wonder what certain elements of society today would have called the men who went as volunteers to Spain to fight Franco’s fascists. Is that similar to the young men fighting with the Islamic State? Were those Spanish War volunteers idealists and defenders of freedom or were they brainwashed, radicalised terrorists?

      Would our present Government have considered a military intervention into Republican Spain then?

      • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 10.1.1
        28 October 2014 at 1:20 pm

        It is the remuneration packages of bank CEOs that have been out of control. They are the ones who are left unchecked and will rain carnage on the world.

      • Westiechick 10.1.2
        28 October 2014 at 3:47 pm

        I read on wikipedia that John Key’s Dad went to fight in the Spanish civil war

        • mac1 10.1.2.1
          28 October 2014 at 5:21 pm

          Well, well, I never knew that. George Key. My use of the Spanish Civil War analogy was entirely outside of that information. (And that’s no John Key-style memory lapse. His techniques for avoidance of issues are well criticised in tonight’s Marlborough Express editorial, by the way).

      • KJT 10.1.3
        28 October 2014 at 6:16 pm

        “Fight for the filthy commo’s, no way”.

        Remember that those who fought against Franco were reviled by the establishment, who thought that fascism, which got rid of those “pesky communist trade unions”, was a good idea.

        Right up until Poland was invaded, and their skills were needed.

  11. Raa 11
    28 October 2014 at 10:53 am

    [deleted]

    [lprent: I have no real objections to you placing these links here (all about ISIS, chemical weapons, and Kurds). However I do have a strong objection to you link-whoring them on our site for promoting google links. You haven’t provided a reason in the form of a paragraph or two for the people on this site why they should click into them.

    This site values the opinions of those who comment here. We don’t value straight linking with no explanations. ]

    • Aerobubble 11.1
      28 October 2014 at 11:03 am

      Strange thing though, I imagine that there are many more young people willing to take up arms against IS than the few odd entrails that media manage to find have signed for IS.

    • Raa 11.2
      28 October 2014 at 1:32 pm

      Re. “link-whoring them on our site for promoting google links.”
      .. they all linked to newspaper media sources, as I remember it, not google. A link is just an economical way of doing it ..

  12. cogito 12
    28 October 2014 at 11:15 am

    Key: Action against IS ‘morally right’
    http://www.3news.co.nz/politics/key-action-against-is-morally-right-2014102810

    Odd statement coming from a compulsive liar.

    • emergency mike 12.1
      28 October 2014 at 1:09 pm

      Not at all, brazenly claiming the moral high ground is standard practice for compulsive liars.

    • Murray Rawshark 12.2
      28 October 2014 at 6:51 pm

      Moral is a word beloved of the Hasbara Zionists. The IDF is a moral army, Israel acts morally, etc….. Key is on the same side, so it’s no surprise to see the word being misused here as well. It’s a favourite term of immoral liars.

      • Colonial Rawshark 12.2.1
        29 October 2014 at 12:23 am

        Good point. Plenty of more conservative lefties and left leaning intellectuals will nod sagely with the PM though. What could be more worthy than a ‘just’ war?

  13. adam 13
    28 October 2014 at 11:24 am

    Not strictly politics, but good comedic analysis – and it’s just so damn funny. Key and Peele alien imposters

  14. karol 14
    28 October 2014 at 11:57 am

    Questions for oral answer today:

    More questions to the PM on his communications with Slater – aimed at Key doing this in his role as PM.

    Questions on workplace safety; state and social housing; TVNZ outsourcing it’s Māori & Pacific content.

    • chris73 14.1
      28 October 2014 at 5:16 pm

      *Yawn*

      Oh sorry are we still talking about the thing that the opposition parties complained about stealing all oxygen during the election?

      Jolly good then, carry on.

      • ropata 14.1.1
        28 October 2014 at 9:32 pm

        Are you from North Korea? Prefer licking the boots of the Great Leader?

        In this country some still believe in this quaint notion called ‘democracy’, where the government is accountable to the people.

        • Paul 14.1.1.1
          28 October 2014 at 9:38 pm

          He won’t have read Dirty Politics
          He will ignore all evidence on any subject which counters his limited self interested and parochial viewpoint.
          He will rely on anecdotes to support his points.
          He will aim tok provoke.
          He’s unlikely to admit the only reason he voted for the Tories is naked self interest.
          In short, he is not worth debating with.

        • chris73 14.1.1.2
          28 October 2014 at 9:40 pm

          I believe very much in democracy especially the last election where the people of NZ (well enough of them anyway) told you exactly what they think of so-called dirty politics and voted National back in

  15. Once Was Tim 15
    28 October 2014 at 12:08 pm

    Far be it for me to agree with a curmudgeon, but check out Gavin Ellis? (Elice?) on the regular gal’s NinetoNoon today. Completely on the mark – and couple that with the recent TVNZ decision.
    When I get around to it, it may form a question on another post re what the fuck are prospective Labour Party candidates going to do about our media, and in particular PSB.
    I’m hopeful I’ll hear that there will be some sort of bipartisan mechanism that protects our 4th Estate (not that we have one), and our public sphere. AND such a mechanism that bypasses old hacks and self-interested old boy/gal networks.
    Personally, I believe there is such a mechanism, and one that not only recognises individuals’ true worth, and one that puts back a citizenry’s RIGHT.
    (Might take one or two ex-pats to return home, and they can be convinced – AND one which is somewhat more ambitious than a CBB – which I have to support, but regard as JUST a little namby pamby – otherwise known as a co-alascence of a 3rd Way)

    EDIT: What the fuck ever happened to protest, and journalistic integrity?

  16. Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 16
    28 October 2014 at 1:50 pm

    Rock stars do really die much younger than the general population.

    So what about a so-called rock star economy when compared with other economies?

    • greywarshark 16.1
      28 October 2014 at 2:25 pm

      Good quip from a listener on Raionz yesterday.
      NZ has a rock star economy because as usual the managers have run off with the money.

  17. greywarshark 17
    28 October 2014 at 2:21 pm

    DTB put up a link on housing in the USA on Alternet. Very good reporting with anecdotes and background. http://www.alternet.org/hard-times-usa/turning-public-housing-over-private-developers-has-unfortunate-consequences?page=0%2C2

    While I was there I saw this piece by Paul Krugman on the USA decline into stasis and ‘starvation in the midst of plenty’.
    http://www.alternet.org/economy/paul-krugman-how-gops-ideology-destroying-americas-future

    “America used to be a country that built for the future,” Krugman opens, somewhat mournfully. “Sometimes the government built directly: Public projects, from the Erie Canal to the Interstate Highway System, provided the backbone for economic growth. Sometimes it provided incentives to the private sector, like land grants to spur railroad construction. Either way, there was broad support for spending that would make us richer.”

    Not any more. These days, our government steadfastly refuses to invest in the country’s future.

    It isn’t as if there’s no cash to do so. Seven years after the housing bubble burst, “the country is awash in savings,” Krugman writes, “with nowhere to go.” Corporations and banks are holding on to trillions in excess reserves that are simply sitting idle. State governments are strapped, yes, but the federal government, with its ability to borrow money cheaply, could easily help them out.

  18. phillip ure 18
    28 October 2014 at 3:07 pm

    (if watching replays of q-time..i wouldn’t bother much past question five..if i were you..

    ..norman under-performed/delivered..

    ..king got follow-up question of the day..(referencing/comparing collins/key..vis a vis ‘ministerial-responsibility’..

    ..and this:..

    (excerpt..)

    ‘..and english slam-dunks him/labour by noting labour signed up to the social-accord in 2013..which detailed this dismantling/devolution of the state houses asset..(!)

    ..(ed:..i didn’t know that..did you..?..that labour signed up to this..?..whoar..!..)..’

    http://whoar.co.nz/2014/new-zealand-parliament-list-of-questions-for-oral-answer-tuesday-28-october-2014/

  19. phillip ure 19
    28 October 2014 at 4:27 pm

    laugh-out-loud appearance on panel from rodeo-pimp..

    ..quote:..’rodeo are leaders in animal welfare’…

    ..when in fact..they are ritualised animal-abuse/torture..

    ..and the rodeo-pimp made a real horses’-arse of trying to defend what they do..

    ..making farcical-claims that the animals ‘like it’..(!)..

  20. swordfish 20
    28 October 2014 at 5:00 pm

    John Robertson, Professor of Media Politics at the University of West Scotland, on media bias in the Scottish Independence Referendum …..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajd4R-9BEIw

    Some of his arguments towards the end of the clip (on the Establishment Media’s demonization of Opposition Leaders) has particular relevance for New Zealand.

    • Murray Rawshark 21.1
      28 October 2014 at 6:57 pm

      As far as OceanaGold is concerned, I’m happier to go with the Guardian and call it Australian. It’s not particularly good to see any company threatening a sovereign country, especially one which has been kept dirt poor by corruption and foreign business.
      http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/03/australian-mining-is-poisoning-el-salvador-it-could-soon-send-it-broke-too

    • Paul 21.2
      28 October 2014 at 7:20 pm

      A couple of minor corrections and additions to your report.

      1. Oceana Gold is not a NZ company. It is just another foreign owned company making money out of NZ.

      2. It is poisoning El Salvador’s water.

      3. It is using a free trade agreement to sue the El Salvador government.

      “Oceana Gold is claiming that under the US-central America free trade agreement, it has a “right” to compel mining or be compensated for loss of profits. In response, the company will today be handed a petition signed by 200,000 opponents to its attempt to force gold mining in El Salvador.”

      But who cares. Some selfish shareholders are making heaps of money out of polluting the earth and screwing over a people.

      Woohoo, as you put it so intelligently chris 73.

      http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/03/australian-mining-is-poisoning-el-salvador-it-could-soon-send-it-broke-too

    • Paul 21.3
      28 October 2014 at 7:23 pm

      And Mighty River Power and Meridian were stolen from us.
      All that chart demonstrates is the level of the theft.

      • chris73 21.3.1
        28 October 2014 at 9:35 pm

        Stolen? No I think you’ll find NZ still has majority shareholding but if it makes you feel better I’m doing better out of it

        • Paul 21.3.1.1
          28 October 2014 at 9:39 pm

          As long as you are ok.
          That’s all that matters, isn’t it.

          • chris73 21.3.1.1.1
            28 October 2014 at 9:47 pm

            Simply put yes, yes it does…except for the little issue of its not a case of me doing well therefore no one else can do well instead its a case of I’m doing well and everyone else can do well if they so choose

            The problem with the left in general is you all think that for someone to do well (whatever the definition of doing well is) it has to be at the expense of someone else

            Whereas the inconvenient truth of the matter is that everyone can do well if they choose to but most choose not to

    • Paul 21.4
      28 October 2014 at 7:34 pm

      “Restaurant Brands is a fast food company based in New Zealand and is listed on the NZ Stock Exchange as RBD. It operates most of New Zealand’s KFC, Pizza Hut, Carl’s Jr. and Starbucks stores and provides management and support services to New Zealand’s independent KFC franchisees. It holds the New Zealand franchise for KFC and Pizza Hut from Yum Restaurants and Starbucks from Starbucks USA.”

      So just a subsidiary and a franchise of a massive US company owned by large multinational banks.

      “Yum! Brands, Inc. or Yum! is an American fast food company. A Fortune 500 corporation, Yum operates the licensed brands Taco Bell, KFC, Pizza Hut, and Wing Street worldwide. Prior to 2011, Yum! also owned Long John Silver’s and A&W Restaurants.”

      You can always look up Starbucks Shareholders ….

      http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/sbux/institutional-holdings#ixzz3HQ11PYg1

      Looks really NZ owned, chris 73.

      Do you understand how capitalism works nowadays?
      In your defence, Liam Dann, who wrote the article comes out looking like a fool too.
      Or a puppet.

      It’s just you should know by now not to believe what you read in the Herald.

      • chris73 21.4.1
        28 October 2014 at 9:36 pm

        The shares I have are in the power companies so your points are moot

        • Paul 21.4.1.1
          28 October 2014 at 9:40 pm

          They were stolen from ordinary New Zealanders.

          • chris73 21.4.1.1.1
            28 October 2014 at 9:50 pm

            Nope sorry they weren’t, they were offered at a fair price and the controlling majority were kept by the government and there been two elections thus far that have returned National to be power

            The people have spoken, deal with it.

  22. wekarawshark 22
    28 October 2014 at 5:24 pm

    James Shaw, the new Green Party MP’s maiden speech in parliament,

    When we’re presented with this conflict between the environment and the economy and it is almost always a false choice. There’s almost always a solution that delivers both.

    Problems and conflicts that seem unsolvable have solutions, and the hard part is getting the different parties to work together to find them

    ahem, you listening Labour? (and Russel Norman).

    • karol 22.1
      28 October 2014 at 6:01 pm

      There’s a lot of chatter on twitter about Shaw being into market force. A bit worrying.

      • phillip ure 22.1.1
        28 October 2014 at 6:09 pm

        yeah..he’s a rightwinger..

        ..(support a national gummint..?..you betcha..!..)

      • Karen 22.1.2
        28 October 2014 at 6:23 pm

        Yes, Shaw is in the section of the Green Party that see a future working with National. They are still in a minority but do have influence. Julie-Ann Genter and Russel Norman are in this group also, but are not quite as right as Shaw.

        I am still appalled that Norman said in the minor leader’s debate that the politician he most admired in another party was Bill (sell off state houses) English.

        • karol 22.1.2.1
          28 October 2014 at 6:29 pm

          I’ve always had some criticisms of Norman’s values.

          Actually. In the speech, Shaw doesn’t say he’s a fan of “market forces”. He says he’s a fan of “the market”; that the cause of destructive climate change is economic, but the solution is political. He said the market is not sentient, and we need to tell it what to do.

          I have heard before that people generally rate him as pretty right wing.

          So, he’s into regulated markets. He cites the abolition of slavery (having outlined the various strand of his whakapapa, which includes a female slave in the US).

          He also talked of his mother raising him and his siblings on her teacher’s salary, as well as saying he was raised by his mother and her female partner. He spoke in praise of suffragettes and stroppy activist women.

          • Karen 22.1.2.1.1
            28 October 2014 at 6:43 pm

            Even those Greens who have rightish economic views are still a lot smarter and more socially enlightened than the right of the Labour Party (Cosgrove, O’Connor etc).

          • wekarawshark 22.1.2.1.2
            28 October 2014 at 11:34 pm

            I’m just listening now. He’s saying some prettty radical stuff eg that nature has inherent rights. His stuff about the expansion of rights is very good (how they are feared but the fears prove unfounded in time).

            and yeah, interesting re his statement that he likes the market, which he follows by saying that the market needs to be controlled. He says that for setting prices and allocating scarce resources it’s better than the alternatives. It would be good to see him do actual comparisons with the alternatives.

            • wekarawshark 22.1.2.1.2.1
              28 October 2014 at 11:43 pm

              I know that presently we are stuck. To get unstuck, we will all need to let go of some things, and to be more committed to finding the answers than to being right or to others being wrong

              The guy has serious problem solving intelligence and skills, I can see why the GP have promoted him. Very good speech.

        • Belladonna 22.1.2.2
          28 October 2014 at 6:45 pm

          I was also appalled at Russel Norman’s snuggling up to the Nats. Because of that I changed my vote from Greens to Labour and wonder if that comment lost them many votes at the election. Politics is in a woeful state at the moment.
          I will probably vote reluctantly for Andrew Little in the Labour Leader contest, dont like any of the others in the running but is a worry when I cant even say to myself that I will vote for Greens if the outcome isn’t what I prefer.

          • karol 22.1.2.2.1
            28 October 2014 at 6:50 pm

            Well, it’s the likes of Metiria Turei, Catherine Delahunty, and Jan Logie in the Greens that keep me voting Green. i’d also like to see Jack McDonald and Marama Davidson in the House.

            But it is hard to decide who to vote for when I have criticisms of every party on the “left”.

        • phillip ure 22.1.2.3
          28 October 2014 at 7:09 pm

          @ karen..

          “..I am still appalled that Norman said in the minor leader’s debate that the politician he most admired in another party was Bill (sell off state houses) English…”

          yeah..that one is still echoing/bedding-in…

          ..and yeah..macdonald and davidson have both impressed..

      • wekarawshark 22.1.3
        28 October 2014 at 6:30 pm

        “There’s a lot of chatter on twitter about Shaw being into market force. A bit worrying.”

        I think it is inevitable with the Greens. Unless the left organises a progressive movement pretty damn quick, the party will work with whatever it can, including market forces. Norman of course is also into using the market to effect change.

        It will be an interesting dilemma for the Greens. There is this idea that they’re neither left nor right (I think Lynn once used the imagery of them being vertical to the horizontal axis of the traditional left/right spectrum). I tend to see them as trying to move beyond the left/right gulf (which is why the whole ‘we can work with anyone on policy’ thing is so important to them). I have some sympathy for this because the left appears to be failing to stop neoliberalism and proto-fascism. Not that I think the left is necessarily at fault, but that we may need other things as well.

        I’ll try and download Shaw’s speech later so I can see what all the fuss is about.

        • Tracey 22.1.3.1
          28 October 2014 at 6:37 pm

          i also empathise. i think they are trying to go beyond left right dichotomy and are saying that whoever is in power and wants to advance policies the green party advocate they will work with.

          that is not the same as being “right”

          it seems to me that there is no single solution to many of our big problems but amalgams which most of our parties dont want a bar of.

          • Murray Rawshark 22.1.3.1.1
            28 October 2014 at 7:03 pm

            It’s the same as doing what the Maori Party does, without the cabinet posts. It’s hugely dangerous, but then again, I also consider any collaboration with Labour since 1984 as working with the right.

            • phillip ure 22.1.3.1.1.1
              28 October 2014 at 7:13 pm

              @ murray..

              “..I also consider any collaboration with Labour since 1984 as working with the right…”

              ..aye..!

            • Tracey 22.1.3.1.1.2
              28 October 2014 at 7:14 pm

              the greens memorandum with national has resulted in over 400,000 homes being more insulated.

              there has been a pilot scheme for a building wof

              both things done by parties not around the cabinet table and with no outside cabinet baubles either.

              far too little credit, and too many brickbats, get thrown for this. insulating homes is a step toward homes affects health improvements for the poorer amongst us

            • wekarawshark 22.1.3.1.1.3
              28 October 2014 at 10:08 pm

              “It’s the same as doing what the Maori Party does,”

              Except the Māori party is actually right wing.

        • karol 22.1.3.2
          28 October 2014 at 6:41 pm

          I don’t buy that line about moving beyond left and right. The MO of working for consensus and collaborative rather than being into competitive game-playing is to me a left wing value.

          I think people like Shaw =, saying they are beyond political partisanship, and being into working with whoever for solutions to the big problems, are deluded.

          They ignore that there are those out to maintain their power and privilege, and will resists any changes that challenge that – even if it damages the whole planet.

          Slavery, for instance, never really went away, the capitalists used the market for exploit people in new ways.

          • Tracey 22.1.3.2.1
            28 October 2014 at 6:48 pm

            i am not even sure it is a left wing value given the labour caucus consider itself left wing.

            it is possible that people can believe they are moving beyond left and right in an attempt to place the value or ethic pursued above any exterior label. they may or may not achieve that but it doesnt change the intent. intent is often more key than outcome whether that outcome is negative or positive. the greens appear to be trying to place their policies, the intent above traditional labels. i admire the attempts given the people and process they are surrounded by

            • karol 22.1.3.2.1.1
              28 October 2014 at 6:52 pm

              Well, I don’t see the current Labour caucus as being into consensus building and collaborative approaches.

              There’s a strong element within that caucus that are into approaching politics as combative game playing. Very different from the approach of the Greens.

              • Tracey …
                28 October 2014 at 6:57 pm

                oh i agree but many behaving that way will consider themselves left wing.

                i hesitate to say this but collaborative and consensus, imo, is a feminine trait rather than left or right wing… and before anyone leaps on that by feminine i mean as opposed to masculine not women versus men.

                • karol …
                  28 October 2014 at 7:06 pm

                  I see a collaborative approach as being more dominant on the left. I also see it as being more common among women. But, there are also some pretty competitive, combative, individualistic and right wing women: Judith Collins, for example.

                  • Tracey …
                    28 October 2014 at 7:08 pm

                    yup, she uses some masculine characteristics as part of her methodology.

                    we are none of us, in my opinion all masculine or all feminine.

                    • karol …
                      28 October 2014 at 7:56 pm

                      Well, i think it’s a cultural thing. And I think many upperclass or upper middleclass women are used to tell others what to do.

          • wekarawshark 22.1.3.2.2
            28 October 2014 at 6:54 pm

            For me, traditional human communities have always functioned with both conservative and liberal elements. While I also see the intent to shift beyone game playing and power-over structures as being more naturally left, I think that conservatives can also work collaboratively (I’m not talking about neoliberals or fundamentalists). The GP moving beyond left/right doesn’t mean they leave left wing values or skills behind.

            “I think people like Shaw =, saying they are beyond political partisanship, and being into working with whoever for solutions to the big problems, are deluded.”

            That’s a somewhat different thing than what I was talking about. I think that in principle we could have multi-party accords on some things (across the left/right divide), and to an extent this already happens within MMP. But in practice it won’t happen much because NACT’s agenda is so extreme and because we live in an MMP age where taking out opponents is part of the process (aka cutting off one’s nose to spite’s one face).

  24. wekarawshark 24
    28 October 2014 at 6:42 pm

    A question for any IT geeks around. Is there a technical reason for not having platforms that allow multiple logins at the same time on the same computer/browser (eg gmail, twitter etc)? Or is it that developpers don’t see the need?

    • KJT 24.1
      28 October 2014 at 8:45 pm

      MS Outlook 2013

    • karol 24.2
      28 October 2014 at 8:54 pm

      I can do it. However, there is something that happens with gmail that it locks into one gmail account from my computer some times.

      It can be undone – forget how – maybe clear cache, start again, and untick something -“stay logged in”?

      Google pisses me off. It tries to link everything I do, under diverse identities, to each other.

      Oh, and to use different logins simultaneously – try using different browsers for each log in.

      • wekarawshark 24.2.1
        28 October 2014 at 9:53 pm

        yes I know how to use different browsers, my question is if there is a technical reason why it can’t be done on the same app.

        How do you login to two different gmail accounts in the same browser? When I do that, gmail just logs me out of the first one, once I’m in the second one.

        • McFlock 24.2.1.1
          28 October 2014 at 10:09 pm

          in gmail using a web browser, click on the person-shaped icon (top right) and click “add account”. Each account is opened in a different tab in firefox.

          • wekarawshark 24.2.1.1.1
            28 October 2014 at 10:17 pm

            Brilliant! thanks. Interestingly, that doesn’t work if I open a new tab manually, go to the login page, and then add another account that way.

            So that answers the question. There appears to be no technical reason to not design for this. ie it could be done on other platforms too.

            • McFlock 24.2.1.1.1.1
              28 October 2014 at 10:25 pm

              I suspect it involves cookies that link each session on the website to the specific tab, so on the flipside it might not work so well for sites whose users like to open the browser, go to the site and straight into their account with no further clicks.

              Of course, all of the above are security workarounds that mean anyone using your machine can open your accounts, so you might not want to do it with any emails you conduct business on.

    • ropata 24.3
      28 October 2014 at 9:55 pm

      It’s by design, for security and convenience (in most use cases – not yours though!).

      The Gmail login page creates an “authentication” cookie, so when you open a new tab Google knows you are logged in already. And when you open your other Gmail account, a new Gmail cookie is created which supersedes the previous one.

      You may wonder why opening a different browser does what you want. It’s because they don’t share cookies among one another. Each browser (Firefox, IE, Chrome, Safari, etc.) has a separate set of cookies.

      Email clients like Outlook or Thunderbird should make it easier to collect your email from different accounts.

      More details here.

      • wekarawshark 24.3.1
        28 October 2014 at 10:04 pm

        Thanks. I understand why using different browsers works (cookies).

        I’m still not clear if there is a technical reason multiple logins can’t be used on one platform. How is it a security issue? And in this day and age, how is it a convenience issue?

        “Clients like Outlook or Thunderbird should make it easier to collect your email from different accounts.”

        Can I send from the different gmail accounts using Outlook?

        It’s not about making it easier to collect email. It’s about being able to work in two or more different logins at once. eg working with googledocs, I’ve been logged in on a community group account and my own account, which requires me currently to use two browsers.

        • ropata 24.3.1.1
          28 October 2014 at 10:27 pm

          Cookies are per-website not per-account. If you had 2 cookies for the same website there’s a good chance the browser will mix up the account details when sending email.

          Outlook is able to send & receive from different accounts no probs.

          • wekarawshark 24.3.1.1.1
            28 October 2014 at 11:09 pm

            “Outlook is able to send & receive from different accounts no probs.”

            Different gmail accounts?

            “So that’s why websites don’t do it”

            Except the others just demonstrated it’s possible in gmail (above) 😉

            I hear what you are saying abotu cookies, just not sure why some other system can’t be used.

            • ropata 24.3.1.1.1.1
              28 October 2014 at 11:15 pm

              Bloody McFlock showed me up! 😮

              A cookie is just a simple little text file stored on your computer, not having to log in everywhere you go is part of the convenience they offer.

              Something like LastPass (browser addon) is a possible alternative

        • ropata 24.3.1.2
          28 October 2014 at 10:42 pm

          Technically: multiple sessions in one browser are possible, but almost always a bad idea! So that’s why websites don’t do it 😛

  25. Chooky 25
    28 October 2014 at 8:12 pm

    ‘Canadian Green MP warns against harsh anti-terror measures’

    By Keith Locke / October 28, 2014

    “Canada’s Green Party has provided a welcome counterpoint to Prime Minister Harper’s call for tougher anti-terrorism laws in the wake of a soldier outside the Canadian Parliament…

    – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/10/28/canadian-green-mp-warns-against-harsh-anti-terror-measures/#sthash.Weky26Uy.dpuf

    • vto 25.1
      28 October 2014 at 11:46 pm

      How many times does it need to be said that it was not terrorism.

      It was an act of war in a country that has been at war for 13 years. Unless can someone prove otherwise. Or just silly gormless soundbites for te news. probably

  26. greywarshark 26
    28 October 2014 at 9:25 pm

    The latest news I’ve heard on Canada is that Toronto heavyweight Rob Ford was going to stand again for Mayor? but became ill, and at the last minute his brother stepped into his place. So how will Toronto vote?

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.