Was listening to Shearer on Morning Report. Just realised that my jaw has been sore as I have been clenching my teeth in trepidation that he might trip over his tongue. Whew. He hasn’t been THAT bad. Some good points made.
Especially the comments about vested interests in the real estate industry making a lot of money out of foreign sales.
Best form of defence is attack. Question the motivation of these opponents.
Just heard a bit of Him defending Labour’s latest move on housing, interestingly someone here was having a nit-pick about Dave (the incumbent),calling the policy ‘his’ the other day,and, that’s the only point where he stumbled having to self edit meant that this came out as ”my/our policy”,
Dave,(the incumbent),has come along in leaps and bounds in being able to deliver the message without the aaah ummm extended silence that punctuated His earlier efforts,
He still tho has one major problem in that those that didn’t get their Dave,(not the incumbent),into the top spot still wont accept Him as leader with a large full stop…
The closer we get to the election, the less indifference Cunliffe supporters will show, I reckon. Whatever their feelings about the leadership, I’m confidant the prospect of knocking off Key will be enough for most Labour supporters to put the party, and NZ, ahead of their antipathy toward Shearer.
There was no antipathy towards Shearer to begin with. Just a belief that Cunliffe was the better candidate. The antipathy resided with the ABC Club who chose to be malevolent towards Cunliffe and anyone who had supported him.
Knocking off Key has always been the number one priority. There’s no reason why Shearer can’t do it, and I know of no-one who won’t be cheering him on. If he has the nous to stop listening to Cunliffe’s detractors and places Cunliffe back on the front bench where he belongs then all the better…
And then it will be too late to get rid of him if he fucks it up. And then we have 3 more years of a bunch of sell it all megalomaniacs, better he stands down now, in deference to someone who can at least string a sentence together, without stumbling ad mumbling all over the place. And his preoccupation with the word ‘I’. Someone needs to tell him that there is NO ‘I’ in TEAM. And he NEEDS a team to win and at the moment that is the biggest missing link in the Labour Party at present. So no team no win!
But without a team he’s just another also ran. Who will lose his shirt, and us our assets, there is too much at stake to have a NON team player in charge!
+1. Absolutely. Someone seems to have told him he should say “I” to show he’s in charge, or something. It needs to be “we”. It’s a team that makes policy, not Shearer, it’ll be a team that gets elected and implements policy.
No need to compete with Key by saying “I”. It’s fine for National to continue to show they’re all told what to do in every area of policy by a dodgy money trader.
I know of no Labour Party member who used that term. Even so, it was ultra mild compared to what some were calling Cunliffe. You do have a very selective memory sometimes McFlock.
You missed me. And I have, until this time, voted labour for the last 40 years. But not this time. Why should I vote for someone who does not give a rats arse about us, who is only interested in being the leader, even if the fucking shooting box goes down the crapper. And that’s what Mumblefucks legacy will be! The man who sank democracy in NZ, for a pay packet, and a fucking title. Way to go Shearer!
So much for Anne’s “I know of no Labour Party member who used that term”.
So much for this bullshit about nice people versus intractable careerists who would bring labour down to keep their jobs for three more years. Maybe if you guys can get over yourselves, then you could help the Left get somewhere rather than feeding bullshit to jonolists.
Awwww CV, just because they’re tossers (if they even exist as a distinct group that is as entrenched as the acronym implies), you wanna be a tosser too?
Now what did you learn in kindy about that approach when you wanted to play with truckie and another kid wouldn’t let you?
Felix: not really. I’m pointing out she was wrong, that her perception was off. The cunliffe-crowd have given much more than they’ve got in dirty behaviour, if comments I’ve seen here are anything to go by. And if comments here aren’t anything to go by, then that speaks for itself.
Anne, I thought Shearer not sprinting to the front of the hall at the GCSB meeting to grab the mic, instead allowing Cunliffe to speak and applauding what he said was an indication that he trusts Cunliffe, so maybe the front bench isn’t out of the question.
Hear, hear, Anne. I ventured into David Cunliffe’s office today to pick up some flyers to be delivered re the Power N Z meeting this Saturday at Kelston and walked out feeling generally despondent. I keep hoping that DC will be back on the front bench very soon.
Hey, cut it. You silly pawn.
Stop, for goodness sake, framing it as “anti Shearer = pro Cunliffe”.
You are eating the lines of the TV3 news-creators and Robertson.
All Labour supporters want a fairer society and to urgently roll back the inequities driven by Key & Co.
How fucking dare you accuse hard working and extremely patient Labour members of ever putting anything ahead of that. My attitude towards the leadership is driven by that one cannon.
Over the past year you, TRP, have pretended to be open minded on your support for one leader over another: yet invariably saying … Let us not change anything.
That bullshit has us heading to an election defeat and three more years of Key and a very unfair society.
Yeah, because typos or incorrect spelling are really important right now.
“Because most of your hard work here seems to be spent on abusing Labour rather than National.”
But bad12 didn’t refer to the standard, so it’s reasonable to assume he meant all Cunliffe supporters and all Labour people who have criticised Shearer.
There are very good reasons why the dominant narrative here has been anti-Shearer. I think you are one of the few people who doesn’t get it.
Eeeek, how did i get into the conversation this far into the debate Dave V Dave, umm no my previous comment didn’t mention the Standard, but, the basis of my comment when it comes to the acceptance of the incumbent Dave is solely based around what i have read here at the Standard,
In the real world i don’t tend to have conversations with Labour supporters about who they support as leader, as i am not a Labour voter nor member such inquistions would possibly be seen rightly or wrongly as stirring…
But when B referred to “all Labour supporters”, it is reasonable to assume that those who comment here are a subset of that, no? Including B? Unless of course B is just another commentator overly concerned about the leadership of a party they don’t even vote for.
I get that there are good reasons to not be particularly impressed or awed by Shearer as leader, but no, I don’t get why people are so anti to the extremes that some people seem to be.
I donât get why people are so anti to the extremes that some people seem to be.
If you think that the leadership is not a pivotal issue and that Labour is still on course for victory, of course the complaining will seem unnecessary and extremist.
of course the complaining will seem unnecessary and extremist.
Rhino referencing a woodchipper was extreme. The extreme end of behaviour here, but I still don’t get it (even in jest). I don’t get how people can call a simple internal equality policy political suicide, especially this far out from the election. Nor do I get why people complain that not mentioning state housing policy while announcing other policy is a sign of closeted neoliberalism.
Criticism, that I can understand. But jumping at ideological shadows like some sort of lame “ghost hunting” reality TV show? Nah, I don’t get it.
“I donât get why people are so anti to the extremes that some people seem to be.”
Pretty simple. Many see the problem within Labour (the ABCs and Shearer) as preventing any shift away from the neoliberal clusterfuck are are in. This time period will be remember as the second time in my generation that Labour betrayed the country. It’s not as obvious as the 80s, but we’re in a holding pattern now waiting for the ABCs to retire or die. We can’t afford that wait.
Bigger picture McFlock. It’s not about Shearer, it’s about why Shearer is leader at this point in time and why nothing is being done about it.
Putting aside the vexed question of just WHO should be sitting in the leaders chair for the moment can i ask you Weka if you firmly believe that, just to be topical, Labour would have a different housing policy than the one announced???,
Would David Cunliffe have a different ‘flagship policy’ and if so can you cite such a policy difference???
The leadership of Labour where i am concerned is one of who can sell Labour to the electorate the best,
As a supporter of those way further left than Labour i have to realize that to make any gains which betters my level of society, my class if we want to be ugly but totally realistic, Labour will be the party of Government that such gains if they can be made must be chiseled off of,
Much of the denigration of the current Labour leader seems to me to be more propelled by those who want the party to be something that it just is not,
How different in issues of ‘bread and butter’ would Labour be if it swapped one Dave for the other Dave, i would suggest that there would be very little difference as the middle class have grown Labour have grown into being middle class with it and are thus intent on formulating policy that definitely benefits that middle class,
Labour as a % of the party vote are then quite naturally a party in the 30,s as far as % goes, the Green Party, Mana Party, and, Maori Party hold the 15% of further left than Labour support that MMP allows the freedom of choice…
I agree with much of that bad, and like you am fairly pragmatic in that I’m not expecting Labour to be moving radically left any time soon. So do I think that under Cunliffe Labour would be making different policy? Not particularly, but I guess there would be more room to move left (as opposed to the very thin space now). My point was more that it looks to me like the people in power in caucus would rather be in power in opposition than allow change to happen. That’s the betrayal. They’ll let NACT have another 3 years while they’re playing stupid factional power games internally. Don’t know how the membership can stand it.
Bigger picture, okay:
Labour policy is pretty good so far.
Ideal government will involve Labour + greens + mana.
Greens are likely to get 10â15% of the vote.
Therefore labour needs 35â40% of the vote, so anything mana gets above that is gravy.
Currently, 35% for labour in a campaign is easily doable. 40% would be a big stretch of probability, but not so much in a year’s time. Things change.
So, what’s the big deal? Why do people get so worked up, calling commenters “pawns” or tools of TPTB. I don’t get it.
Yeah, let’s just trundle along, tralalala, not to worry, she’ll be right.
I suppose the big deal is that as bad as things are now, another 3 years of NACT will do irrepairable damage to that country. Exponentially more than they have done now and than they did in the 90s.
Someone said a while back that it was ok for the left to limp over the finish line to become the next govt. What I don’t understand is why anyone would want to risk losing the next election, given what is at stake. You above post makes it sound like, oh it would be nice to win, but it’s not really that bad if we don’t. For me it’s much more critical than that.
But there is no move that would guarantee a lab/grn government. After a certain level, you just have to admit that some things are out of our control.
Would [insert here] be a better speaker than shearer during the campaign? Possibly/probably. Would that person also have some quality or problem that will be done to death by the jonolists? Yep. Would they make bad moves, as well as good? Yep. Will these be blown out of proportion by the supporters of failed candidates as well as jonolists? Probably. Would garner/gower still foment the “imminent ruction within caucus” line? Yep. [Insert here] might be able to improve the polls, but then again a new leader has new targets to hit.
So yeah, Shearer’s not perfect, but nor will his replacement be. It’s not a case of “she’ll be right”, it’s a case of recognising that point where “constructive criticism” becomes “cheap invented bullshit for jono, otherwise pointless”.
McFlock, of all the things you don’t understand, this is the biggie. It’s not that Shearer isn’t perfect. It’s that he is really bad at his job. See the difference? Even if you don’t think that he is, surely you can understand that people that do think this are really frustrated (given what is at stake) and might be more angry about the situation than you.
Good to see Phil Twyford posting in the Housing Policy thread. Liked this
Even if he were really bad at his job (which I don’t think he is), no, I don’t get how people can’t understand that they’re getting so worked up that (and I seriously believe this) they’re hampering any chance of a left wing government much more than they think Shearer’s performance is.
This isn’t a traffic accident or similar emergency, where we’re all trying to think through a massive adrenaline rush that hampers our perceptions and if we don’t act this second people die. We are all sitting in front of some manner of VDU with an input interface of some kind. I seriously don’t get how people fall into a state of hearing a competent performance on the radio and the main thrust of their comment is how they were waiting to be dismayed. That can’t be doing their blood pressure any good, and it’s not Shearer’s fault. It’s their own.
Some people really need to take some time off the political news and gossip, and just chillax for a while.
felix:
1 is down to your perception, and 2 is a baseless assertion that merely serves to justify your opinion. Basically, 2 means that in order to have someone in the top job next election, Labour need someone who is outstanding in all facets as leader. There is nobody in caucus like that, so you might as well just have a smoke, enjoy the view and put the blindfold on when the time comes.
“Over the past year you, TRP, have pretended to be open minded on your support for one leader over another: yet invariably saying ⊠Let us not change anything.”
Not so, Boadicea.
My preffered leader is Cunliffe, though I’m leaning toward Little. However, I have consistently said that policy is more important. And I have also consistently said that the leadership is a done deal. Shearer’s it for better or worse.
Cunliffe was badly let down by the naivety of his supporters at the last conference. His chances of taking over ended there and then.
“How dare you accuse hard working and extremely patient Labour members of ever putting anything ahead of that.”
Whether you remember or not, many commenters here have said things like ‘not voting Labour till they change the leader’. What I said is that I belieive that atitude will diminish as we get closer to the election. I hope I’m right.
I have never called David Shearer names, and my anxiety about Labour under his leadership has always been based on the fear that the party has been hijacked again and is in the process of being neutered. If that fear still persists by the time of the election I will neither vote Labour nor assist Labour – I will instead vote either Green or Mana. Politicians are there to represent us. They are not there to be proxy rulers on behalf of people who do not give a damn about us.
Cunliffe was badly let down by the naivety of his supporters at the last conference. His chances of taking over ended there and then.
As opposed to a concerted media effort by his colleagues to attack and discredit him using lines around a non-existant coup, even before Conference had finished?
I Have called Shearer names and I stand by what I said. Shearer is a ME, ME, Politician he uses I instead of WE ALL the time.
CunLiffe on the other Hand has the ability to explain the most complicated shit in layman’s terms so ALL voters can understand him. Key is shit scared of Cunliffe. And not only that He would wipe the floor with Key in a debate. God help us with Captain Stutterbum in the debates!
That’s a galling assumption to presume the loyalty of all us volunteers, no matter what. That’s precisely the attitude that has seen members walk away over the last decade – or haven’t you noticed?
Every Labour Party member has a duty to hold the leader to account. And to support them when they perform. Indeed according to our constitution we now have the right. And so we do, including here. We invest volunteer time and expect results. Leader: deliver.
Instead, the Labour Party by every single measure is failing. Funding. Profile. Coherence. Membership. Media management. Polling. You can offload blame for that to Cunliffe loyalists all you want.
But in fact yours is the attitude that needs to change: blind loyalty – and you expect come election just press the political-guilt button again. The Labour Party is a walking hollow corpse, and those electrodes don’t work any more. With your expressed attitude, the best chance for Labour to do better is for you and people like you including caucus to look in the mirror and tell the truth.
Hear Hear! to that Ad.
I regard my vote for Labour’s 3rd term to have been partly due to “blind loyalty” and a vote for the least worst option at the time.
Not again. There are actually other options.
Thus far, I’m BEGINNING to see some good initiatives coming from Labour, and a SLIGHT improvement in Shearer’s performance, but UNTIL a few of them at least start to realise they don’t have some divine right to my vote, acknowledge more openly that the neo-liberal agenda has not worked and that they will at least explore alternatives – they’ll not get my vote again.
More than that, they sure as hell won’t get my membership or financial support again until they’ve established a decent sort of record.
Thanks, Ad and Tim for offering those words, which actually seem to confirm my point about the antipathy toward Shearer. Ad, it gives me heart to know that there are folks like you out there who can be persuaded to support Labour if the circumstances are right. For me, that’s policy. For some people, it’s leadership. I really hope that come election time, we’ll have the best of both and a better than even chance of changing NZ for the good..
BTW, if you’d read my comments down the years, you’d know it’s not blind loyalty that drives me (or, I suspect, anyone else). It’s a rational choice in a western democracy to support the social democratic party that is best placed to lead the next Government, giving the lack of a mass supported socialist alternative. The LP is not within cooee of the kind of party I’d like to be in, but I keep trying in my own small way to move it to the left.
“Itâs a rational choice in a western democracy to support the social democratic party that is best placed to lead the next Government, …etc.”
TRP – we’re in agreement, except that my point is that there is now (almost) another alternative for that ‘mass’. What’s required is for Labour to step up: to demolish the little Hipkins hissy fits; to spark when required; to hold the bovver boys in check when it’s quite obviously counter-productive, and release them when its not; to publicly and vociferously denounce the Natz bullshit at each and every opportunity (without delay – given the 24hr spin cycle – and there have been plenty). I realise the opportunities are precious – given the state of the MSM and its predisposition – which makes that all the more important.
So far – in the scheme of things, there are better alternatives. I MIGHT (at a very very very small pinch – or should that be a large one) be persuaded to give Labour another chance. Given the record so far, and after almost a lifetime – it’s not likely in 2014.
99 to 1 – that could change – I.e. NOT Labour.
I don’t think I’m a masochist – or a martyr – right now, that’s what would be required to even consider it
Shearer has been unable to articulate the new housing policy clearing. For the last 18 months, his performances have been cringeworthy. There were those of us who were prepared to give him a chance, but with polling staying around 31%, there is no way that Shearer can lead Labour to victory.
A third term National Government simply cannot be an option.
Worth keeping an eye on this thread : http://johnquiggin.com/2013/07/28/oz-nz/ where Aussie economist John Quiggin is looking at the comparative performance of NZ/AUS performance post war.
Wellington getting rocked by a 5.x earthquakes and a cluster of 3.x.
Pete George using an evidence free approach to everything. Perhaps he should retrain as a jonolist? I posted that Jenny was wrong in saying Shearer said anything “angrily”. He didn’t. Having listened to the video Jenny referred to, she appears to have confused someone else intejecting with the words “not a review” with Shearer. And for the record, Pete, you really are a retarded fool if you think Jenny’s silly claims being repeated on TV3 wasn’t at the core of my post.
Jon getting spied on by the NZDF is disturbing. Particularly since it appears that the only reason for doing so is to prevent embarrassment. I have been known to have the odd beer with Jon. Offhand I cannot think of anyone less likely to want to cause soldiers harm. But he does seem tenacious about digging out dodgy shit. Definitely a journalist…
The NZDF revelations are extremely disturbing. It reveals a distinct lack of understanding of democratic principles in the upper hierarchy. You can’t save democracy by undermining democracy, fellas.
Now we now how John Armstrong gets off – a pap piece on Simon Bridges.
To think that our politics must be reported in terms of applauding Bridges’ entirely unremarkable and boringly prosaic “elder gentleman” jibe, as though it were Churchillian.
Armstrong seems to be engaged in a wilful dumbing down. Why else right this shit as major stuff ?
It is becoming more apparent that between them the Heralds Fifth Column of commenters are producing pieces in that particular shoddy rag, working as a tag team in the vein of Labour must do this while pimping for support for the likes of National’s Bridges and the equally as awful Jamie Lee Ross, (who has something extremely ugly lurking just beyond His frontal lobe),
Sooner or later as the fashion dictates the Herald will hide it’s on-line edition behind a pay-wall which will be a joy as i wont be tempted to read their utter sh*t Fifth Column political jonolism anymore…
At times I post on things maori-pakeha. It is an interest in our land, peoples, archaeology, future… As part of that, posts have been made suggesting that the classification of Maori as NZ’s sole indigenous people may well change in the near future, if it hasn’t already. The point of indigeneity moves along a sliding time scale. It brings in new arrivals, it brings a first occupier, a subsequent occupier, several types it seems. This is seen in the history of most indigenous people around the globe.
As part of that it has been suggested that pakeha will at some point be deemed indigenous, if they are not already. A little like the Afrikaner is regarded as indigenous to southern Africa. Of course this postulation is met with the typical poorly thought out “bigot” chant, “racist” chant, “hater” chant by people who only poorly think things out. More fool them.
A few days ago, apparent support for something like this position was tumbled on within the late historian Michael King’s book A Short History of NZ, written a decade or so ago. In it King refers to Maori as New Zealand’s first indigenous people. What would King mean by that? It implies more than one, obviously. It implies that there are or will be other indigenous people subsequent to Maori. I read around and around the particular piece to try to glean some more to help paint the picture but couldn’t locate much to assist… (no longer have the book so can’t reference but it was in a post-WWII chapter around what the govt was doing with the dept of native affairs I think)
‘Indigenous’, from it’s literal meaning would tend to suggest that none of us are, indigenous that is, none of us occurred here naturally as we all came from other places,
Maori with the literal translation that i have, ‘Normal’, would seem a better descriptive, your debate of course is around what a Pakeha academic has chosen to label Maori as, i doubt many Maori have or do use the term indigenous…
Your plan to get rid of the Treaty won’t work – others far more bright, well read and intelligent have tried and are trying. Why not try the honest approach and just put up your agenda instead of lurking around it – it’s pretty obvious anyway but being honest would at least give a true reference point to begin actual discussions – may I suggest a list would help.
Have to agree. Vto, yet again your comment skirts around the issues making them vague enough that it’s hard to know what your actual point is. So I’m guessing that you are referring to the people that believe various theories around pre-Maori settlers, but who unfortunately (a) don’t have any background/experience that lends their views credibility and (b) are often connected to white supremacist groups in NZ or internationally. Then you wonder why the term racist comes up so often.
btw, I’ve had discussions with people and read articles re Pakeha indigeneity that never reference the racist arguments of people like Ansell or Doutre. These conversations ask questions like what does it mean to be indigenous? What are the cultural and spiritual aspects that are associated with bein indigenous? What is the relationship between indigenous and the land? These conversations happen without any need to take anything away from Maori, and for the most part they aren’t based in Pakeha insecurity. Why are you not taking part in these conversations?
You might want to re-consider the circles you are moving in, and the kinds of material you are reading. I also hear Maori who talk with ambivalence about who was here first. If you don’t understand the reasons why they do that, or why they’re not going to engage in the debate you want, then again, you are talking to the wrong people. Until I see some attempt by you to engage with Maori on their own terms, I can only assume you are like other Pakeha that are interested in the things that support their ethnocentric view instead of being open to wider, sometimes contradictory perspectives.
From what I remember King believes that non-Maori can become indigenous, so when he refers to ‘first’ indigenous he is stating his belief that Maori were here ‘first’.
But I would have to see an actual quote, and in context. Maybe it’s actually an editing mistake.
Pretty much the exact same as you weka. Nothing more and nothing less. It is another piece of a very large picture about maori and pakeha place in these islands, that is all.
The reason it was posted is that the idea in King’s statement is something I have been ridiculed for expressing on here.
let the placing of the 1,000,000 piece jigsaw puzzle continue ………
Anyway, I seem to remember the last time you started up on this, you referenced someone as supporting your argument, and that person turned out to be known racist and white supremacist John Ansell (and we only learned that because I searched for the audio, listened to it, and then reported back to the ts thread). So I don’t really trust you when you say you read something once. Your ability to misrepresent your argument is now well known. Am pretty sure that by the end of this round we will have demonstrated that Michael King didn’t say what you think he said, that you are misrepresenting his views, and that what you really believe is more along the lines of Doutre and co. I’m happy to be proved wrong, but you never say what you actually think, and then we find bits of the jigsaw hidden under the tablecloth or on the floor.
King as i point out above has mistakenly used the term ‘indigenous’, to be indigenous Maori or anyone else would have had to have been resident here when our little islands split off from where-ever they split off of,
So what is there to debate about King’s mistaken use of the English language…
Hi bad12, thanks for your comment there. I understand your point there but take this as being indigenous within the NZ context i.e. on the assumption that Maori are indigenous…….
Point taken VTO, but working off of an assumption that in its entirety is incorrect leaves you in danger of basing everything else upon that incorrect assumption thus reaching a wrong conclusion,
A far better description of Maori would be ‘first people’ which is entirely unambiguous, it is then easy to ‘see’ that such a first people had ‘property rights’ not just in the European sense but in far more ephemeral areas,
Obviously such property rights do not translate from the Maori into the English in their entirety which is why we still have Treaty issues,
Inherent in such issues is the Maori ”it is mine but it is not mine”, in English that term is totally ambiguous and a contradiction, for Maori hardly so…
“A far better description of Maori would be âfirst people'”
Only if you accept that Pakeha definitions trump Maori ones. If you deny Maori the right to use the term indigenous, then you exclude them from their relationship with other indigenous peoples in the world. And you make this about reductionist biological constructs instead of holitic ones. I don’t see how that helps matters.
Just as an aside – somewhere (and I’ll try and locate it from a uni history paper if I can), there is a U.N definition of the descriptor ‘Indigenous’ which not only suggests the concept of ‘first people’, but also those subjected to some sort of subsequent ‘oppression’ or adverse cultural influence (such as colonisation).
It might be a losing battle to locate however – the attic is knee deep in old notes and books and I no longer own the place.
Here’s indigenous, occurring in a country or region naturally, at a squeeze Maori are indigenous in terms of region, originating in terms of recorded history from the Pacific region,
To use such a definition tho would be to insinuate that all Pacific people are then indigenous to New Zealand,
LOLZ, i have never heard any Maori, those in the family or from elsewhere, use the term indigenous, that does not preclude that some might of course,
A bigger LOLZ is your contention that if i deny Maori the right to use the term indigenous i deny them something, along with your lead into that concerning Pakeha definitions trumping those of Maori,
My contention that ‘first people’ is a far better description of Maori when measured against ‘indigenous’ in no way contends that Maori should never use indigenous, and my use of ‘first people’ is akin to the American Indian self description of ‘first nations people’,
If you asked my nieces and nephews whether or not they are indigenous i can assure you the reply would be one large HAH???,
Therein lies the disconnect, ‘indigenous’ is an entirely Pakeha concept, ask my lot instead how they come to ‘belong here’ and you will get a recitation of ‘whakapapa’ from the mountains to the sea, including the rivers and lakes along with the more ephemeral connection through different ancestors to various
Gods from Tane Mahuta to Tangaroa, which also may include the odd connection to a specific taniwha,
Indigenous then can come no closer in comparison than the divide between Maori and Pakeha that has always exsisted…
Well, yes. Indigenous is a European term. And originally I think it was just applied to country of birth. But it is a term adopted by indenous people – maybe more politcal than in everyday language.
As I understand it “First Nation” – also a useful term – is one coined in Canada and applied to indigenous people there.
he First People were believed to be a mysterious group of ancient humans, supposedly the first race of humans to evolve on the planet. The First People were the creators of the Machine and were thought to have been exterminated by a mysterious event. In fact, The First People were Walter Bishop, with possible aid from Astrid Farnsworth and Ella Blake.
First Peoples Worldwide was first developed in 1997 by Cherokee social entrepreneur Rebecca Adamson, as a program of her non-profit First Nations Development Institute. In 2005, Rebecca and her daughter, Neva, founded First Peoples Worldwide as a full-fledged organization in its own right. We focus on funding local development projects in Indigenous communities all over the world while creating bridges between our communities and corporations, governments, academics, NGOs and investors in their regions. We facilitate the use of traditional Indigenous knowledge in solving todayâs challenges, including climate change, food security, medicine, governance and sustainable development.
There is no rigid definition of what makes a group Indigenous, but the United Nations and the International Labour Organization have outlined a few characteristics that usually define an Indigenous group:
â We are descended from the pre-colonial/pre-invasion inhabitants of our region.
â We maintain a close tie to our land in both our cultural and economic practices.
â We suffer from economic and political marginalization as a minority group.
â A group is considered Indigenous if it defines itself that way.
bad12: ask my lot instead how they come to âbelong hereâ and you will get a recitation of âwhakapapaâ from the mountains to the sea, including the rivers and lakes along with the more ephemeral connection through different ancestors to various
Gods from Tane Mahuta to Tangaroa, which also may include the odd connection to a specific taniwha,
Well, if someone asked where I belong, or where my place is, I’d go into the places my ancestors have been, and their cultural connections etc. Often it’s stuff I don’t find worth celebrating, but, it is what it is.
LOLZ, Karol, we have then come full circle in the debate from what i said in my first comment,
In Maori the closest i can come to the term ‘indigenous’ is in fact the word Maori for which i have a translation to mean ‘Normal’ and in terms of the definition of indigenous ”originating or occurring naturally in a country or region” would seem an adequate fit,
Scholars of the reo might of course be able to submit a far more definitive term of indigenous but Maori does it for me and ‘first people’ seems far more defining than indigenous for those who need some other form of descriptive other than Maori,
Lol, must be a slow day i don’t normally indulge in such wordly debates…
Hereâs indigenous, occurring in a country or region naturally, at a squeeze Maori are indigenous in terms of region, originating in terms of recorded history from the Pacific region
To use such a definition tho would be to insinuate that all Pacific people are then indigenous to New Zealand,
That definition comes from biology. A different definition, with regards to people, has been in use for a long time. Sorry if you and your whanau haven’t come across that before, but it’s been used by Maori for ages, including internationally.
My contention that âfirst peopleâ is a far better description of Maori when measured against âindigenousâ in no way contends that Maori should never use indigenous, and my use of âfirst peopleâ is akin to the American Indian self description of âfirst nations peopleâ,
Except the racists use it to point out that Maori got here just a bit earlier than Pakeha and therefore don’t really have that much right to be treaty partners or call themselves tangata whenua or whatever.
Therein lies the disconnect, âindigenousâ is an entirely Pakeha concept,
Well by that argument, we can’t use the word ‘Maori’ to refer to people of Iwi decent.
ask my lot instead how they come to âbelong hereâ and you will get a recitation of âwhakapapaâ from the mountains to the sea, including the rivers and lakes along with the more ephemeral connection through different ancestors to various
Gods from Tane Mahuta to Tangaroa, which also may include the odd connection to a specific taniwha,
Ae, a fairly acceptable definition of indigenous imo.
Why do you have a need to erase colonisation and its legacy, resulting in a continuing impact on the lives of the majority of Maori, by trying to claim equal arrival and settlement status?
“Why do you have a need to erase colonisation and its legacy, resulting in a continuing impact on the lives of the majority of Maori, by trying to claim equal arrival and settlement status?”
no such need
no such claim
Really Karol, that is entirely assumption and projection on your part. Why have you done that? Why don’t you just answer the actual question about King’s point?
We can’t answer the actual question abotu King’s point, because you haven’t posted King’s point. What you’ve done is presented a version of King’s point amongst a whole bunch of other points and it’s hard to know what the fuck you mean. I feel manipulated, by you. You are setting us up to garner support for your covert views, instead of just being honest about what you think. That’s why people now call bullshit on your posts about ethnicity straightaway.
ffs give it up. Everytime. Simple questions weka, simple questions. And now it has happened again – why do you obsess about the personal? Why is every question treated as some kind of pointer to some other agenda that I don’t have? You are like that other commenter above who never ever comments on the issue and only ever on the person who makes the comment.
I recall you saying a while ago that the ‘who’ of a comment is at least as important as the comment made. I would suggest that this feature of your thinking is bananas and is what is taking you down this path of paranoia. Try concentrating on the actual issues.
Correct – it is not important or relevant to creating a sense of place for pÄkehÄ, unless to create a sense of place, that means reducing MÄori which is what you are trying to do. Many have found their place here by accepting MÄori and accepting what happened here and accepting the way the world is now – but not you vto, you continue to try and create division and anger by pushing your views out there as if they were somehow objective and devoid of your own personal baggage – which they aren’t. Your views are aligned with ansell and 1law4all and you diminish yourself by trying to pretend otherwise. I have no problem saying that MÄori are indigenous in all the vagaries of that word, because they fulfill the definition set out by others of what indigenous means.
These type of debates, fomented by you, always follow the same trajectory yet you cannot stop yourself can you? Why? They bolster your twisted view of the world that’s why, they reinforce your preconceived ideas and strengthen your bigotry by providing evidence in your own mind of why and what you already believe. You don’t discuss or debate in good faith – you just use the good arguments of others to help you continue to see the world through a distorted lens.
There’s that paranoia and complication thing again. Try reading the first two sentences in the post.
And perhaps you could highlight which comments in my opening post were about any other race issue other than indigeneity origins rather than yelling swear words in my face.
At times I post on things maori-pakeha. It is an interest in our land, peoples, archaeology, future⊠As part of that, posts have been made suggesting that the classification of Maori as NZâs sole indigenous people may well change in the near future, if it hasnât already. The point of indigeneity moves along a sliding time scale. It brings in new arrivals, it brings a first occupier, a subsequent occupier, several types it seems. This is seen in the history of most indigenous people around the globe.
Right there, you start muddying the waters. Because you fail to grasp the significance of the way tangata whenua were colonised.
<IAs part of that it has been suggested that pakeha will at some point be deemed indigenous, if they are not already. A little like the Afrikaner is regarded as indigenous to southern Africa.
Really? Citation needed? Because Africaner were major oppressors of the indigenous people of Africa.
And it still doesn’t answer the question why you want to claim “indigenous”‘ status, when it will largely work to blur historical memory about colonisation?
vto, if it’s not important to you, why do you keep raising issues around it?
At times I post on things maori-pakeha. It is an interest in our land, peoples, archaeology, future⊠As part of that, posts have been made suggesting that the classification of Maori as NZâs sole indigenous people may well change in the near future, if it hasnât already.
All I can tell from that is this:
1. you post on things Maori-Pakeha from time to time
2. someone (we don’t know who) has suggested on ts that other-than-Maori will soon be designated indigenous (but we don’t know who, by who, or how).
What did you want to happen next?
Did you read the link I gave about Ani Mikaere’s view on Pakeha and being indigenous?
Meta issue (and manipulation set up):
Of course this postulation is met with the typical poorly thought out âbigotâ chant, âracistâ chant, âhaterâ chant by people who only poorly think things out. More fool them.
Fuck off vto. That’s a classic example of you making an assertion about something but leaving it to the mind readers amongst us to know what you are talking about.
edit: Actually, doubly fuck off, because even when I do respond to the actual main issue you raise, when I take the trouble to do so, you simply ignore that and go for the surrounding meta argument. I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion that you have no genuine interest in the topic, you simply raise the issue here so you can indulge your confirmation bias that everyone who disagrees with you basic premises on race are paranoid hate mongers.
fuck off yourself weka. You see things that don’t exist (see comment just below where I have tried to simplify things).
The issue described was around previous comment on here that rubbished claims that it may be possible for pakeha to be seen as indigenous. Michael King provided some further ballast. But you seem to think that it is a Trojan horse for all sorts of other matters.
Further, your claim that I somehow ask tricky questions that expose commenters true positions – if that were actually true then so fucking what? Some people are very deceptive and hide their true colours. Sometimes they don’t even realise they are bigots or racists or sexists or someotherists.
“Some people are very deceptive and hide their true colours. Sometimes they donât even realise they are bigots or racists or sexists or someotherists.”
THAT IS YOU!
If you just accepted it then an actual discussion could be had because the true parameters would be set – meanwhile you continue to dance on the hotplate – aren’t your feet getting fucken hot by now – FFS be honest at least with yourself and the mirror – you are not fooling anyone else.
“Further, your claim that I somehow ask tricky questions that expose commenters true positions â if that were actually true then so fucking what? ”
Except that you never do ANYTHING other than make assertions. Who is a bigot and why? If you can’t answer that then it’s all hot air and diversion.
eg you just said I’m seeing things that aren’t there. I don’t know what you are referring to, because my comment contained a number of points. You’ve had two comments to say what you are referring to, but you’ve chosen not to. It wouldn’t be that hard to be specific, so I can only assume you either have poor communication skills and don’t know what I mean, or you have another agenda. Each time this happens, you leave other people in the position of either guessing what you mean (and then you get all defensive), or just not responding (in which case you get to say shit without being called on it). It’s starting to look like quie a sophisticated means of tr0lling.
“Except that you never do ANYTHING other than make assertions”
If you look closely weka you will see that both the original post of mine and the rehash were framed entirely by a question to posters about King’s intentions with those words. A question. In both. Not an assertion.
Probably most have had a guts-full of the topic by now, but for those who want to proceed on the basis of an actual quote to refer to, here is one to be going on with:
“In that same year (1946) New Zealand still possessed a Department of ‘Native’ Affairs, whose function it was to assist the country’s first indigenous people and, by organising the development, lease and sale of their land, contribute to what almost all New Zealanders believed were the ‘best race relations in the world’.” (p.413 Ch25 The Penguin History Of New Zealand 2003)
For what it’s worth I’m with B12 on this. It’s a non-issue. Indigenous is the wrong word to use in this context and I thought most “indigenous” people these days avoid this distraction by using the term “first peoples” ??
Thanks Clockie, looks like an editorial misjudgement rather than King making a statement about anything.
“For what itâs worth Iâm with B12 on this. Itâs a non-issue. Indigenous is the wrong word to use in this context and I thought most âindigenousâ people these days avoid this distraction by using the term âfirst peoplesâ ??”
On that basis Maori should be excluded from the UN’s Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Sorry, but we can’t just wipe out a whole bunch of things because some people think the word indigenous should only used in its biological sense (I assume that is the objection here).
I’d need to see the context, but the way it reads would suggest that either the Dept of Native Affairs or King believe that the indigenous people were first. Is that a term that the DNA would have used? If not and its King’s choice of words, it seems odd to use them when discussing something from the 1940s. If neither, it’s a redundancy and should have been edited.
Well I suspect they are King’s words and not the Dept of native Affairs from the 1940s. But bear in mind King was discussing this in the 1990s/2000s and not the 1940s, hence the use of his words “New Zealand’s first indigenous people”, when such terms were more widely understood.
And further, I know historians are very careful with their selection of words. It would be interesting to see if King has discussed this issue elsewhere.
No. it looks exactly like what you are doing – trying to erase the status of tangata whenua – the significance of that status is strongly linked to colonisation and its impact. So an attempt to claim indigeneity for Pakeha looks like an attempt to erase all that, or at least muddy the water.
If you are looking for something to name a Pakeha place of belonging, it is in the word “Pakeha”. It is in our forbears’ history. That history includes colonisation – for some of us serial colonisation – Ireland, etc.
Maybe, vto. But, it’s because you are putting a lot of stress on claiming the word “indigenous” for Pakeha NZers. Indigenous is a word in recent times that colonised people have claimed as part of their articulation of the legacy of colonisation.
Any attempt for people of European or other non-Maori lineage to claim indigenous status looks to me to be erasing the importance of the word “indigenous” to colonised people.
So, you may say it is “subjective”. To me it is a matter of logical deduction.
Why do you think it is so important to be able to claim indigenous status? Why not look for a word that is unique to Pakeha experience? Why not just stick with “Pakeha”?
Unfortunately this is what happens in these discussions with vto. Instead of addressing the issues you raise they will post something about what is wrong with you.
I have said before – it is part of a search of pakeha’s place here. Don’t know where that search will end up.
Is there something wrong with that? It may well be that the current status of Maori is affected in that search. It may be completely unaffected. It may be that the term pakeha is enough, as you say. Other factors may arise in the future affecting the question.
One thing is sure – all such questions are met with heavy resistance. The current frame around this debate in NZ is stiff and unrelenting. It is like the frame has been built to not bend or allow for future flex. Such a frame will not bend of course – it will simply break, or be ignored….
The left should welcome these debates, as difficult as they are to conduct, because it is a defining issue for many people not of the left when it comes to voting patterns.
“One thing is sure â all such questions are met with heavy resistance.”
Complete and utter bullshit. Such questions from you are met with challenges to racism. If you can address those issues, then the topic itself will be discussed. Like I said, I’ve had this conversation with people and we never had to get bogged down in all this other shit.
A big hurdle for you now vto is to demonstrate that you are not aligning yourself with the likes of Doutre and Ansell, or if you are just be honest about it. It’s not hard to clarify and I really think these conversations would go better if you did. You’ve identified with Ansell’s views in the past, so it’s not unreasonable to think that that is where you are coming from (even if you aren’t as extreme as he is).
Get off the grass weka, I have never identified with Ansell or whoever the other prick is.
Let me try again from the start ………
“In the past I have suggested that indigenous people in NZ at some point may include pakeha. This has been dismissed out of hand by some commentators here, notably marty mars. In the weekend while reading Michael King’s recent history of NZ, it was noticed that he referred to Maori as NZ’s first indigenous people, implying that there are or may be in the future, further indigenous people. What say thee?”
Now heaven forbid that you can find anything else in there other than what I am trying to say, but give it a crack…..
weka, if you’re around – did you see this rehash? I have tried to lay it out as clearly as I can with the least number of possible misunderstandings, double entendres, alternative meanings, lost or hidden agendas or anything else that might get in the way of understanding what I was trying to say.
I have said before â it is part of a search of pakehaâs place here. Donât know where that search will end up.
Is there something wrong with that?
No nothing wrong with looking for a sense of place. I do that myself in researching and learning about history. But in doing that I see no need to claim “indigeneity”. A sense of place is as much as in where we (and our forebears) have been – its in the journey as much as in the destination.
As I have said before “indigenous” and indigeneity” is now most commonly used as a way of articulating the experience of, and responding to colonisation. And, for the most simple explanation of this, it’s in the wikip definitions, taken from the UN definitions.
There is no single, universally accepted definition of the term “indigenous peoples”; however, the four most often invoked elements are:[7]
a priority in time
the voluntary perpetuation of cultural distinctiveness an experience of subjugation, marginalisation and dispossession
and self-identification
My bold.
Now a search for a sense of place can be done in many ways.
Why do you need to bring in the word “indigenous” to explain Pakeha sense of place.
And to me “place” is as much about cultural and historical place, and places traveled to and from, the travelling as much of the destination.
Why do you think the word “indigenous” should be one applied to Pakeha? Because, the impact of naming Pakeha as indigenous, will negate the aspect of Maori history and legacy that is in bold above – as I have said. The result will be a denial of colonisation and a muddying of the waters.
Karol, I was not saying it needs to be, I am investigating whether it could be. And there is no need for such a position to negate anything historic or muddy any waters.
If the result is that pakeha are seen as indigenous (less the recent colonisation aspect) then there will need to be some honesty in facing up to it. If not then so be it, on we go, honestly and squarely facing the future.
The focus on “indigenous” here is because it is one of manyplaces to conduct that search for place. That is all. There is no ulterior motive.
This investigation you are doing – have you read or referenced any MÄori writers? And if so, can you put those references here – I’d love to read them. And if not, why not?
Just another small point, the colonisation aspect continues to this day albeit under different guises or perhaps disguises is the better word.
vto, if Pakeha are to eventually becomes indigenous, it’s not something that can just be decided and applied. It would be a long process that would evolve over generations. It’s not a policy to be implemented. When you talk about it, it sounds like you think it is just something that can happen now if we want it to.
Personally, I believe that what we currently call Pakeha could become indigenous. I don’t see it happening any time soon because I see one of the core tenets of being indigenous is the relationship of the collective with the land. Pakeha have a long way to go before they will let themselves be part of the land as a culture. Which is a shame because we still have our indigenous roots with us from the UK and Europe and it could merge very well with what is already here (I don’t know how this works for non-Caucasians).
Having said that I don’t generally support discussion of Pakeha becoming indigenous with people who don’t fully accept the treaty and are who aren’t working towards decolonisation. For a start, it’s extremely rude to expect Maori to listen to such conversations when the dominating culture can’t even afford them basic protections form racism, let alone address grievances. Then there is the matter of the very large ignorance about Te Ao Maori by Pakeha. How can we have this conversation when we don’t even understand how Maori are indigenous?
I also find that the conversations tend to go badly amongst people who are not settled in their own Pakeha identities. I feel very comfortable in mine most of the time, even when I feel challenged by issues raised by Maori, but I don’t see most Pakeha being like that. Many Pakeha get thrown by the issues raised by Maori and then seek to redefine themselves in relation to that. That is understandable, but it is something we need to get past.
I also agree with Karol, why do we even need to have this conversation at this time? I know who I am, I know about my place in the world, and my relationship to tangata whenua is always developing and doesn’t undermine my sense of self. So I don’t understand the need to talk about us becoming indigenous in the context of how that will redefine Maori. When you say that Maori may be redefined I smell a kiore.
I would also be interested to know who from Maoridom you have been reading. But who in general you are reading if you’ve never come across the name Martin Doutre. If you’re not reading the likes of him, it may help clear the air here for you to link to what you are reading (or talking with).
As an aside, here are the links to the last argy bargy, where you referenced something said by Ansell.
I’m willing to accept your word if you say that you don’t support Ansell’s premises, but I’d like to see you refuting them when they come up in these discussions.
weka, just seen this comment here. Thanks for the feedback.
I see this, as I say, as something that is about a search for place. It is not a need, it is a curiousity. Well in many ways it is a need – a need for a people recently displaced or tossed out or seeking escape from persecution or oppression to find their feet again. To feel comfortable that their home is their home. I think that is lacking in some ways today. Pakeha don’t feel fully accepted here at times I think. Pakeha still get told to ‘go home’ sometimes.
Our own whanau (the majority ‘wing’) arrived with a full blown culture in place. One fully indigenous to its own previous land. That culture and that community has since been added to by other peoples and subjected to the vagaries of a new raw nation at the end of the world already occupied by another full blown people. It has taken time for pakeha to find their feet again.
It is not something which is decided on by vote of course. It is most definitely something that develops over time. In my opinion that is happening though. It is also a question (pakeha’s place in aotearoa) which is near solely for pakeha to determine, and only in a very limited way a question for Maori input. Our place is described by our attachment to a place, how that has come t be, sheer timeframes, uniqueness, and other factors, but imo the main describer is ‘our’ sense of it. It stems from us and we must answer it.
…. Some hastily penned further thoughts requiring enhancement and sharpening …….
“It is also a question (pakehaâs place in aotearoa) which is near solely for pakeha to determine, and only in a very limited way a question for Maori input. Our place is described by our attachment to a place, how that has come t be, sheer timeframes, uniqueness, and other factors, but imo the main describer is âourâ sense of it. It stems from us and we must answer it.”
So nice you are allowing yourself all that vto, almost brings tears to my eyes. If you read some of the comments from some above you will see that it is actually easy to have a sense of place here, a sense of belonging and a sense of peace within your heart about who you are and the home you live in – but that can’t happen when you ignore MÄori and their place in and on this land. It is about working together not replacing – it is about respect and allowing, it is about acceptance and truth. No doubt your research and journey will continue, as it must, until you get one of the basics sorted – the answers are right in front of you if you choose to open your eyes.
I’m sorry this is hard for you vto. I appreciate your latest comment, there is a lot there, complexity, and I don’t feel I can do justice to a reply tonight (been a challenging day today). I think what you have written is worth exploring and is something I’d like to respond to at another time. When you write about things more personally like this it is easier to see what the issues actually are. Thanks.
I have also been curious about a sense of place. I’ve read a lot of research and analysis of it, usually in the realm of “new geography” – an approach to geography that developed in the late 20th century. Basically understanding place is more than just about where a section of society/community/ethnic group has lived.
And there’s ways of understanding one’s place in the world, without trying to ignore the history of racial difference – a human construct with material impacts on lives, where some are dominant and others marginalised.
Some new geographers deal with “race” and place, without erasing the history of racial oppression and marginalisation. It means understanding the historical legacy of Pakeha in colonising Aotearoa.
Some in other countries look at understanding whiteness. RRichard Dyer’s “White” is a classic – about the way whiteness is both dominant and ignored, or rendered invisible.
I have particularly liked the work of Nigel Thrift on place and geography, which also includes the various ways people’s sense of place is influenced by class and other social positions.
And agree with marty mars: thinking about one’s place in the world can’t be done without thinking about others and their place and the relationships between us all.
I do believe that Pakeha NZers are different from Europeans….one only needs to go overseas to realise this. …And I also believe that Pakeha who have been here for generations have very deep feelings for the land and do have the right to a special sort of standing in New Zealand…..From what I can remember Michael King wrote a lot of Maori history and then when Maori wanted to write their own history and told him to go away he was very hurt…..so Michael King went in search of his own Pakeha identity. “Being Pakeha Now” could have been the title of his book.
I personally know of NZers with absolutely no Maori blood who are imbued with Maori culture and understanding and live alongside Maori ….so much so you would almost think they were a Maori in a Pakeha skin ( maybe they have been reincarnated.. ha ha)…
Also I once met a Maori with long blond hair and blue eyes at university who had a Maori name and said he was Maori…when I thought he was joking he spoke to me in Maori and told me his Mother was Dutch and his Father a Maori….
And this is the case of many NZers. You would be hard pushed to find a “pure” genetic Maori .Also many Pakeha whose families have lived in NZ for generations (eg ancestry British whalers who married Maori women) have some Maori blood…..
I also know of Maori who look Maori but you would think they had the mind set of a European Capitalist ( ha ha)
To complicate this even further some new immigrants adopt everything in NZ culture -, Maori language , culture , tramping , mountaineering , fishing , rugby , sport and beer drinking with such an enthusiasm that they are almost more Maori or Pakeha than the indigenous NZers.!!!!…All to the good … I guess in the end what is important is respect.
We all bring subjectivity to any issue. I try toown mine, vto, partly in the language I use. It’s actually part of examining something objectively and rationally, by making the subjective an explicit object of scrutiny.
All I see in your comments is disavowal of your own subjectivity under claims of total objectivity.
I’ve spent a lot of my life learning about colonisation and its impacts – read widely on it (and written on it as part of courses). And I’ve also spent a lot of my time reading “sub texts” – underlying meanings. Part of such readings includes identifying what is not said – always an important indicator.
Yes well North, if you read closely you will notice that Karol’s statement there was her own assumption and nothing to do with my question around King’s reference.
But mustn’t let such realities interfere with our own biases and assumptions eh.
Go somewhere quiet and talk to the land …again and again…. it will give you the answers you seek…King did this at the end of his book “Being Pakeha Now” ….This same land has talked to farmers, gardeners, hunters, sailors, mountaineers , trampers, artists and poets…..in the end it is the land that tells you whether you belong and are indigenous. ….it requires silence and reverence.
Chooky, don’t you worry about that I do heaps of it. It is inferred at my comment above at 7.18. I spend more time alone and on in the land that probably 99% of people. Alone, remote, nothing but land sea sky….. It is possibly one of the reasons this subject is excessively raised by me.
@vto OK ….well and good….Well I don’t see the point in arguing about it…..
….The issue really is whether one lives in harmony with the land and cherishes it and derives spiritual sustenance from it….this is the acid test as to whether one is indigenous or not …
…..Or whether one is one of the ‘NEW VULGARIANS’….an exploiter and
de-sacrilizer of the land , an over- populater , a barbarian speculator , a dirty polluter…whose God is materialism and consumerism and profit….and to HELL with the natural environment.
I don’t like Mike Williams as a ‘Spokesperson For Labour’. This morning he put a size 20 foot in his mouth by commenting on policy on housing purchase dampening with negative comments because it will have an immediate increase effect before Labour can be elected in 2014.
Then on top of bad mouthing positive efforts to help this complex difficult problem, felt worldwide, he then increases the fault by referring to Chinese speculators. First that sounds anti-Asian, second he has not referred to the stats on this which show definite peaks for certain western countries, and third he continues his white-anting of the left. Get him out of the media, he can be assessed as 80/20 in his value to the left, with the 80 being against.
Further to my comment above already I have heard John Bank’s whiny little voice castigating the comment about Chinese as if it had been spoken by the Labour leader. Get Mike Williams off Radionz – deny his right to say anything for the left, publicly disagree with him, present him as a turncoat. And do it now. He is bad news for Labour.
And of course on political comment this a.m. Mike Williams hasn’t much to say about reporting on defence force activity and trying to claim everything as being ‘subversive’. He has said something against the surveillance state. Franks is frankly speaking just himself. You know what to expect from him.
Great. Mike Williams makes judgments on Labour’s housing policy based on his own experiences in his area of town – eg being gazumped by an overseas buyer when trying to buy a home, price of rents in his area, etc.
I tried a while ago RoseT. Unfortunately to no avail. It’s been “from the Right [substitute Mike W, Jose P, etc], and from the Right [substitute Mathew H, Steven F, etc]” for quite some time now.
Mike Williams is increasingly using the “I’m in agreement with you [Mathew, Steven]” kaka.
Maybe spending too much time with Paul Henry or fawning over his friendship with Holmes.
. “There’s an avenue for him [Mr Humayun] to go to the police if the guy refused to pay the fare. But in terms of racial abuse, the threshold is very high.”
Susan Devoy. The friend in court of the rednecks. He sounds determined to stop racial abusers getting convicted. Dies she have a clue what her job brief is?
The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 8.1
The U$ was and is where the implementation of Neoliberalism started. It is the garbage ideology that Yankey continues to follow. What is the result? A once great Nation because of the New deal is now on the point of collapse economically and socially with an immense privatised prison gulag, a corrupt finacial class in bed with a corrupt government, a corporate fascist state in reality and yet our crazy politicos still buy into the American Nightmare, including NSA style spying on kiwis who have contrary political opinions and activists. Why is the U$ so influential? Mainly because it has a huge military presence which we gratefully hide behind to put off China becoming the regional leader in the Pacific and to help us if Asia’s huge numbers decide to invade us.
The American Nightmare Yankey is pushing us to with stripping minimal income rights from the poorest Kiwis and further privatisation:
“The United States of… Class War, Inequality, and Poverty
New survey data shows perilous state of US economy and suffering of a majority underclass”
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/07/28-1
“It’s time that America comes to understand that many of the nation’s biggest disparities, from education and life expectancy to poverty, are increasingly due to economic class position.”
“There is no class war. The 99% is in complete and abject submission to the 1% through the phony (D) vs. (R) bullshit paradigm. The working class has been corralled for shearing by the Democratic Party, which is simply a flavor of the Plutocracy Party which runs the United States.
Obama and most of the Democrats are merely reflections of this reality. The fact that the Plutocracy could get Americans to overcome their racism in the election of an African American Plutocracy Candidate is a testament to the success of the (D) vs. (R) propaganda meme.
The working class cannot fight back until it is able to have a voice – and giving it a voice is the thing that the Plutocrats fear most: Hence, billions are spent maintaining the absurd Kabuki illusion that there are two parties in the United States.
It is time to wake up and reject the false D/R bullshit and cast off the self-fulfilling fear that only the Plutocracy Party’s candidates are “electable”.
There will be no change in the status quo until the Democratic Party – the primary tool of the Plutocracy to keep the working class in line – is dis-empowered and left bereft of its national power.”
Is the Wizard of Oz just a shyster in a cloud of green smoke – is he an Aussie is he, is he, Is he an Aussie is he eh? (Old comedy song) http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon
Radio nz this a.m.
Oz- Kiwis falling through the cracks in Australia (â16âČâ39âłâ)
09:30 With Maree O’Halloran – the official spokesperson for the National Welfare
Rights Network (NWRN) and the Director of Sydney’s Welfare Rights Centre. Duncan Sandilands – Founder of the Fair Go 4 All campaign.
and
Concept of operationshttp://www.fairgo4all.com/concept/
Further http://www.fairgo4all.com/phil-goff-continues/
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10888229
Auckland-born student Diana Drysdale became a military cadet at 13, and has only ever wanted to be in the airforce.
But the 15-year-old, who lives near Brisbane, will not be able to fulfil that dream in her adopted home of Australia because her family will never qualify as residents….
The Australian law change was designed to stop backdoor migration from the Pacific Islands and Hong Kong Chinese, who gained New Zealand residency to settle in Australia. Mrs Drysdale believed that the effect it had on military recruitment was unintentional and undesirable.
“The military recruitment people here say they can’t believe it either. They get applications every week from Kiwis wanting to join. It is crazy.”
Mr Sandilands, 53, served as a territorial soldier for seven years. His frustration with being excluded from the ADF was deepened by his family’s rich Australian history – his great-grandfather was Lord Mayor of Melbourne and his grandfather fought with Australian troops at Gallipoli.
(It is surprising that the strongest claim we have for having equal rights in Australia and being treated with the respect of an allied neighbouring country with diplomatic and economic treaties and as we extend most of the rights to Oz residents, is through wanting to serve in their armed forces. Life sure is queer.)
I’ve often wondered when a NZ gubbamint of whatever flavour is going to ask the Australians when they intend putting the NZ back in ANZAC. At the moment it’s only pulled out on ANZAC day mornings.
The last tune-ty, John Key was too busy sucking up to Joolya and looking for foto-ops so he can reflect on all those hoi pear people in his scrap book after he fucks off into the Hawaiian wilderness.
Tim
And it has been shown from journalists queries on Anzac Day that many young people don’t know that it stands for the combined forces of our two countries. It’s just a word that they don’t connect with NZ at all.
Prime Minister John Key, speaking to ONE News deputy political editor Jessica Mutch in South Korea, says heâs is prepared to compromise with NZ First leader Winston Peters to get further support for his GCSB Bill in Parliament.
âI wouldnât rule that out. What Iâve said is that thereâll be the SOP process, so a Supplementary Order Paper. So when the bill comes back to Parliament, itâll have its second reading. Then what happens from there is the committee stage. At the committee stage, we already know a list of things that Peter Dunne will introduce. Now, in a theoretical world, if NZ First or any other political party – letâs take NZ First – came along and said, âWe will support the legislation if you make these changes,â and they were acceptable to the government, there is always that window of opportunity to make that change,â Mr Key says.
Mr Key told the Q+A programme that his office had approached Mr Peters on numerous occasions, âoffering to sit down with me, the officials, in writing. Weâve put all of those sorts of requests there,â but when asked if the lack of response meant it was unlikely the two could work something out, Key says: ânever say neverâ.
i am pretty sure that i have seen Winston Peters on my TV directly saying that the Slippery little Shyster has not contacted NZFirst on any changes that party would want in exchange for supporting that legislation,
If that is the case, Slippery’s latest is simply Him using the media, and i should put an emphasis on the word ‘using’, to be the Slippery little Shyster we all know Him to be…
I wonder whether NatKey are courting Peters for opposite reasons than they are presenting: In order to discourage people to vote for NZF?
He might be an option against National; and therefore if people are making that choice against voting for NZF and find out there is a chance Peters would team up with National; then perhaps less support, under 5% returned and bingo! Kingmaker no more. Back to Act & co
Glad you ‘got’ what I was wondering, because I see I made an error in my comment, which makes it a little hard to understand! (The second time I wrote ‘NZF’, it should have read ‘National’).
They really are fucking around with the nation’s psyche, our values and our democracy. ~ Well said
Leopard, i will take the Slippery little Shysters new found ‘trust’ in Winston Peters and NZFirst on face value, that face value being that even with the ‘Hairdo’ and the ‘Crim’ one small % of vote loss on the 2011 election result and the Shyster will be Slipping right on out of here,
Add to that no Maori Party in the next Parliament,(all gone-burger), and where have the Rats got left to run,
The only possible way i can see that National and it’s head used car salesman can Govern after November 2014 is with the help of NZFirst,(if they can get 5% of the vote)…
In other words, I am advocating for a moral case for science and innovation funding. It is the same argument that is made for funding culture and the arts although a little weaker as there is little that is uniquely Australian about science and innovation (although the astronomers and marine biologists make great counter-cases).
Science and innovation are good for society and thus we should do it. Forget the financials, society is about more than just making a profit.
This is interesting.
Radionz on Windows on the World which started at 8.20 pm and I don’t know how long it goes has something to say to us. If you can’t hear it on Radionz and I think they don’t have audio rights then you can I think get it by going direct to BBC.
They are talking about Kenya where there is 40% unemployment. Yet there is a vital economy developing. As ours becomes more moribund and the government finds new ways of stripping the poor and poorish of tax while the fat cats put theirs on Cloud Nine or somewhere, this might help communities to avoid going bankrupt as in USA.
A firm in Kenya, and there are Kenyan, Chinese, Connecticut and Danish nationals interviewed also, has developed a way of making payments or accessing money through an ordinary mobile phone. It seems that you buy a credit at one of their offices which is like charging your cellphone. Then you have virtual money wherever you go and that cuts out theft. If you are caught short at a remote location I think they said that you can get a small loan immediately. They have found the system works well.
This may be necessary for this country if the banks are going to screw us. These fancy-pancy new aids to nil balances from these super sensitive money-fly cards are apparently being foisted on us. The Kenyan idea would be a good alternative to having to carry lots of cash if they are going to reform the eftpos and credit card systems against our best interests.
This type of vitality might indicate that areas like this are worth shifting to, as NZ appears to have reached the downward slope of the bell curve and is determined to keep going forward, in that downward direction. Australia is not attractive under their present divisive policies, Oz on one side and us on the other. Might be worth while learning Swahili!
New Zealanders are uncomfortable with the high level of influence corporate lobbyists have in New Zealand politics, and demands are growing for greater regulation. A recent poll shows 62 per cent of the public support having a two-year cooling off period between ministers leaving public office and becoming lobbyists and ...
This is a guest post by accessibility and sustainable transport advocate Tim Adriaansen It originally appeared here. Â A friend calls you and asks for your help. They tell you that while out and about nearby, they slipped over and landed arms-first. Now their wrist is swollen, hurting like ...
Floating offshore wind turbines offer incredible opportunities to capture powerful winds far out at sea. By unlocking this wind energy potential, they could be a key weapon in our arsenal in the fight against climate change. But how developed are these climate fighting clean energy giants? And why do I ...
Over the past two or three weeks, a procession of Maori iwi and hapu in a series of little-noticed appearances before two Select Committees have been asking for more say for Maori over resource management decisions along the co-governance lines of Three Waters. Their submissions and appearances run counter ...
The decision of the International Criminal Court (ICC) to issue war crimes arrest warrants for the Russian President and the Russia Children Ombudsman may have been welcomed by the ideologically committed but otherwise seems to have been greeted with widespread cynicism (see Situation in Ukraine: ICC judges issue arrest warrants ...
Let’s say you’re clasping your drink at a wedding, or a 40th, or a King’s Birthday Weekend family reunion and Drunk Uncle Kevin has just got going.He’s in an expansive frame of mind because we’re finally rid of that silly girl. But he wants to ask an honest question about ...
National Party leader Christopher Luxon may be feeling glum about his poll ratings, but he could be tapping  into a rich political vein in  describing the current state of education as âalarmingâ. Luxon said educational achievement has been declining,  with a recent NCEA pilot exposing just how far it has ...
Way Beyond Reform: Rawiri Waititi and Debbie Ngarewa-Packer have no more interest in remaining permanent members of âNew Zealandâsâ House of Representatives than did Lenin and Trotsky in remaining permanent members of Tsar Nicolas IIâs âdemocratically-electedâ Duma. Like the Bolsheviks, Te PÄti MÄori is a party of revolutionaries â not reformists.THE CROWN ...
Buzz from the Beehive Auckland was wiped off the map, when Education Minister Jan Tinetti delivered her speech of welcome as host of the inaugural Conference of Pacific Education Ministers âhere in TÄmaki Makaurauâ. But â fair to say â a reference was made later in the speech to a ...
Morning mate, how you going?Well, I was watching the news last night and they announced this scientific report on Climate Change. But before they got to it they had a story about the new All Blacks coach.Sounds like important news. It’s a bit of a worry really.Yeah, they were talking ...
Always a bailout: US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said the Government would fully guarantee all savers in all smaller US banks if needed. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: No wonder an entire generation of investors are used to ‘buying the dip’ and ‘holding on for dear life’. US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen ...
Yesterday afternoon it rained and traffic around the region ground to a halt, once again highlighting why it is so important that our city gets on with improving the alternatives to driving. For additional irony, this happened on the same day the IPCC synthesis report landed, putting the focus on ...
The Beginning: Anti-Co-Governance agitator, Julian Batchelor, addresses the Dargaville stop of his travelling roadshow across New Zealand . Fascism almost always starts small. Sadly, it doesnât always stay that way. Especially when the Left helps it to grow.THERE IS A DREADFUL LOGIC to the growth of fascism. To begin with, it ...
Hi,From an incredibly rainy day in Los Angeles, I just wanted to check in. I guess this is the day Trump may or may not end up in cuffs? I’m attempting a somewhat slower, less frenzied week. I’ve had Unknown Mortal Orchestra’s new record on non-stop, and it’s been a ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
RNZ has been shining their torch into corners where lobbyists lurk and asking such questions as: Do we like the look of this?and Is this as democratic as it could be?These are most certainly questions worth asking, and every bit as valid as, say:Are weshortchanged democratically by the way ...
RNZ has continued its look at the role of lobbyists by taking a closer look at the Prime Minister's Chief of Staff Andrew Kirton. He used to work for liquor companies, opposing (among other things) a container refund scheme which would have required them to take responsibility for their own ...
Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta has left for Beijing for the first ministerial visit to China since 2019. Mahuta is to meet Chinaâs new foreign minister Qin Gang where she might have to call on all the diplomatic skills at her command. Almost certainly she will face questions on what role ...
TL;DR:The Opportunities Party’s Leader Raf Manji is hopeful the party’s new Teal Card, a type of Gold card for under 30s, will be popular with students, and not just in his Ilam electorate where students make up more than a quarter of the voters and where Manji is confident ...
When I was a kid New Zealand was actually pretty green. We didn’t really have plastic. The fruit and veges came in a cardboard box, the meat was wrapped in paper, milk came in a glass bottle, and even rubbish sacks were made of paper. Today if you sit down ...
Looking back through the names of our Police Ministers down the years, the job has either been done by once or future party Bigfoots â Syd Holland, Richard Prebble, Juduth Collins, Chris Hipkins â or by far lesser lights like Keith Allen, Frank Gill, Ben Couch, Allen McCready, Clem Simich, ...
Chris Trotter writes â The Crown is a fickle friend. Any political movement deemed to be colourful but inconsequential is generally permitted to go about its business unmolested. The Crownâs media, RNZ and TVNZ, may even âcelebrateâ its existence (presumably as proof of Democracyâs broad-minded acceptance of diversity). ...
Four out of the five people who have held the top role of Prime Ministerâs Chief of Staff since 2017 have been lobbyists. Thatâs a fact that should worry anyone who believes vested interests shouldnât have a place at the centre of decision making. Chris Hipkinsâ newly appointed Chief of ...
Feedback on Auckland Council’s draft 2023/24 budget closes on March 28th. You can read the consultation document here, and provide feedback here. Auckland Council is currently consulting on what is one of its most important ever Annual Plans – the ‘budget’ of what it will spend money on between July ...
by Molten Moira from Motueka If you want to be a woman let me tell you what to do Get a piece of paper and a biro tooWrite down your new identification And boom! Youâre now a woman of this nationSpelled W O M A Na real trans woman that isAs opposed ...
Buzz from the Beehive  New Zealand Education Minister Jan Tinetti is hosting the inaugural Conference of Pacific Education Ministers for three days from today, welcoming Education Ministers and senior officials from 18 Pacific Island countries and territories, and from Australia. Hereâs hoping they have brought translators with them â or ...
Let’s say you’ve come all the way from His Majesty’s United Kingdom to share with the folk of Australia and New Zealand your antipathy towards certain other human beings. And let’s say you call yourself a women’s rights activist.And let’s say 99 out of 100 people who listen to you ...
James Shaw gave the Green party's annual "state of the planet" address over the weekend, in which he expressed frustration with Labour for not doing enough on climate change. His solution is to elect more Green MPs, so they have more power within any government arrangement, and can hold Labour ...
RNZ this morning has the first story another investigative series by Guyon Espiner, this time into political lobbying. The first story focuses on lobbying by government agencies, specifically transpower, Pharmac, and assorted universities, and how they use lobbyists to manipulate public opinion and gather intelligence on the Ministers who oversee ...
Nick Matzke writes –Â Â Dear NZ Herald, I am a Senior Lecturer in the School of Biological Sciences at the University of Auckland. I teach evolutionary biology, but I also have long experience in science education and (especially) political attempts to insert pseudoscience into science curricula in ...
James Shaw has again said the Greens would be better ‘in the tent’ with Labour than out, despite Labour’s policy bonfire last week torching much of what the Government was doing to reduce emissions. File Photo: Lynn Grieveson/Getty ImagesTL;DR: The Green Party has never been more popular than in some ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Sarah Wesseler Poor air quality is a long-standing problem in Los Angeles, where the first major outbreak of smog during World War II was so intense that some residents thought the city had been attacked by chemical weapons. Cars were eventually discovered ...
Yesterday I was reading an excellent newsletter from David Slack, and I started writing a comment “Sounds like some excellent genetic heritage…” and then I stopped.There was something about the phrase genetic heritage that stopped me in tracks. Is that a phrase I want to be saying? It’s kind of ...
Brian Easton writes – Two senior economists challenge some of the foundations of current economics. It is easy to criticise economic science by misrepresenting it, by selective quotations, and by ignoring that it progresses, like all sciences, by improving and abandoning old theories. The critics may go ...
This week marks the twentieth anniversary of the Iraq War. While it strongly opposed the US-led invasion, New Zealandâs then Labour-led government led by Prime Minister Helen Clark did deploy military engineers to try to help rebuild Iraq in mid-2003. With violence soaring, their 12-month deployment ended without being renewed ...
After seventy years, Auckland’s motorway network is finally finished. In July 1953 the first section of motorway in Auckland was opened between Ellerslie-Panmure Highway and Mt Wellington Highway. The final stage opens to traffic this week with the completion of the motorway part of the Northern Corridor Improvements project. Aucklanders ...
National’s appointment of Todd McClay as Agriculture spokesperson clearly signals that the party is in trouble with the farming vote. McClay was not an obvious choice, but he does have a record as a political scrapper. The party needs that because sources say it has been shedding farming votes ...
Rays of white light come flooding into my lounge, into my face from over the top of my neighbour’s hedge. I have to look away as the window of the conservatory is awash in light, as if you were driving towards the sun after a rain shower and suddenly blinded. ...
The columnists in Private Eye take pen names, so I have not the least idea who any of them are. But I greatly appreciate their expert insight, especially MD, who writes the medical column, offering informed and often damning critique of the UK health system and the politicians who keep ...
A chronological listing of news articles posted on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Mar 12, 2023 thru Sat, Mar 18, 2023. Story of the Week Guest post: What 13,500 citations reveal about the IPCC’s climate science report IPCC WG1 AR6 SPM Report Cover - Changing ...
Buzz from the Beehive The building of financial capability was brought into our considerations when Social Development and Employment Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced she had dipped into the governmentâs coffers for $3 million for âprovidersâ to help people and families access community-based Building Financial Capability services. That wording suggests some ...
Do you ever come across something that makes you go Hmmmm?You mean like the song?No, I wasn’t thinking of the song, but I am now - thanks for that. I was thinking of things you read or hear that make you stop and go Hmmmm.Yeah, I know what you mean, ...
By the end of the week, the dramas over Stuart Nash overshadowed Hipkins’ policy bonfire. File photo: Lynn GrieveasonTLDR: This week’s news in geopolitics and the political economy covered on The Kākā included:PM Chris Hipkins’ announcement of the rest of a policy bonfire to save a combined $1.7 billion, but ...
When word went out that Prime Minister Chris Hipkins would be making an announcement about Stuart Nash on the tiles at parliament at 2:45pm yesterday, the assumption was that it was over. That we had reached tipping point for Nashâs time as minister. But by 3pm - when, coincidentally, the ...
Two senior economists challenge some of the foundations of current economics. It is easy to criticise economic science by misrepresenting it, by selective quotations, and by ignoring that it progresses, like all sciences, by improving and abandoning old theories. The critics may go on to attack physics by citing Newton.So ...
Photo by Walker Fenton on UnsplashIt’s that time of the week again when and I co-host our ‘hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kaka for an hour at 5 pm. Jump on this link on Riverside (we’ve moved from Zoom) for our chat about the week’s news with ...
In a nice bit of news, my 2550-word deindustrial science-fiction piece, The Dream of Florian Neame, has been accepted for publication at New Maps Magazine (https://www.new-maps.com/). I have published there before, of course, with Of Tin and Tintagel coming out last year. While I still await the ...
And so this is Friday, and what have we learned?It was a week with all the usual luggage: minister brags and then he quits, Hollywood red carpet is full of twits. And all the while, hanging over the trivial stuff: existential dread, and portents of doom.Depending on who you read ...
When I changed the name of this newsletter from The Daily Read to Nick’s Kōrero I was a bit worried whether people would know what Kōrero meant or not. I added a definition when I announced the change and kind of assumed people who weren’t familiar with it would get ...
There was a time when a political partyâs publicity people would counsel against promoting a candidate as queer. No matter which of two dictionary meanings the voting public might choose to apply â the old meaning of odd, strange, weird, or aberrant, or the more recent meaning of gay, homosexual ...
Photo by Joakim Honkasalo on UnsplashIt’s that time of the week for an ‘Ask Me Anything’ session for paying subscribers about the week that was for the next hour, including:PM Chris Hipkins announcement of the rest of a policy bonfire to save a combined $1.7 billion, but which blew up ...
Even though concern over the climate change threat is becoming more mainstream, our governments continue to opt out of the difficult decisions at the expense of time, and cost for future generations. Photo: Lynn Grieveson/Getty ImagesTLDR: Now we have a climate liability number to measure the potential failure of the ...
Thomas Cranmer writes Like it or not, the culture wars have entered New Zealand politics and look set to broaden and intensify. The culture wars are often viewed as an exclusively American phenomenon, but the reality is that they are becoming increasingly prominent in countries around the world, ...
Hereâs an analogy for the Stuart Nash saga. If people are to be forgiven for their sins,Catholic dogma requires two factors to be present. There has to be a sincere act of confession about what has been done, but also a sincere act of contrition, which signals a painful ...
Hereâs an analogy for the Stuart Nash saga. If people are to be forgiven for their sins,Catholic dogma requires two factors to be present. There has to be a sincere act of confession about what has been done, but also a sincere act of contrition, which signals a painful ...
Human Destabilisers: Russia now has a new strategic weapon â migratory waves of unwelcome human-beings. Desperate people with different coloured skins and different religious beliefs arriving at, or actually breaching, the national borders of Russiaâs enemies can wreak as much havoc, culturally and politically, as a hypersonic missile exploding in the ...
Hi,After Webworm contributor Hayden Donnell wrote his latest piece, ‘RIP to Millennials Killing Everything’, he delivered this exciting and important bonus content.It will make more sense if you’ve read his piece.David. Read more ...
Hi,Before we get to Hayden’s column — RIP to Millennials Killing Everything — a quick observation.There was a day last week where it had suddenly reached 10pm and I hadn’t eaten all day. Hunger had suddenly gripped me with a panicky all-consuming force, so I jumped onto Uber Eats and ...
We add some of the CMIP6 models to the updateable MSU comparisons. After my annual update, I was pointed to some MSU-related diagnostics for many of the CMIP6 models (24 of them at least) from Po-Chedley et al. (2022) courtesy of Ben Santer. These are slightly different to what ...
In a memorable Pulp Fiction scene, Vincent inadvertently shoots their backseat passenger in the head. This leads our heroes Jules and Vincent to express alarm about their predicament.We're on a city street in broad daylight here!says Vincent. We gotta get this car off the roads. You know cops tend to ...
Primary, secondary and kindergarten teachers are all on strike today, demanding higher pay and an end to systematic understaffing. While the former is important - wages should at least keep up with inflation - its the latter which is the real issue. As with the health system, teachers have been ...
So the teachers are on strike, marching across Aotearoa today to press their demands for better pay and working conditions.Children remained in bed this brisk morning, many no doubt quite pleased about a day off school. Parents perhaps taking the day off to look after the kids, or working from ...
After the Cold War the consensus among Western military strategists was that the era of Big Wars, defined as peer conflict between large states with full spectrum military technologies, was at an end, at least for the foreseeable future. The … Continue reading → ...
Dairy giant Fonterra has posted a 50% lift in net profit to $546m, doubled its interim dividend, and is proposing a return of capital of 50c a share, injecting a note of optimism into the nationâs dairy industry. Fonterraâs strong performance is against a backdrop of market volatility. It ...
Buzz from the Beehive The bothersome economic news today is that New Zealand’s GDP fell by 0.6% in the December quarter, weaker than market forecasts of a fall of around 0.2% and much weaker than the Reserve Bank’s assumption of a 0.7% rise. This followed the even-more-bothersome news yesterday that ...
Ouch: Hipkins’ policy bonfire has resulted in an expensive self-administered removal of a Budgetary foot with an explosive device. File Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTLDR: Bonfires can be dangerous things when they get out of control. They also create a lot of smoke and heat and burn the grass. ...
* Dr Bryce Edwards writes – I teach a first-year course at Victoria University of Wellington about government and the political process in New Zealand. In âIntroduction to Government and Lawâ, students learn there are rules preventing senior public servants from getting involved in big political debates â as we ...
I teach a first year course at Victoria University of Wellington about government and the political process in New Zealand. In âIntroduction to Government and Lawâ, students learn there are rules preventing senior public servants from getting involved in big political debates â as we have recently witnessed with Rob ...
An issue of integrity has claimed the first ministerial scalp in Prime Minister Chris Hipkins’ premiership. Police Minister Stuart Nash lasted mere weeks in the role after admitting in a radio interview this morning that he had called Police Commissioner Andrew Coster to ask him if police were going to ...
For some time now we’ve known that the cost and completion timeframe for the City Rail Link would increase. Yesterday we finally learned by just how much. Costs City Rail Link Ltd (CRL Ltd) today confirms it has submitted a formal funding request to its Sponsors â the Crown and ...
The Governmentâs decision to back peddle on lowering speed limits is hitting potholes. At this stage, although it is part of the Governmentâs reprioritisation efforts to free up money to alleviate cost of living increases, the speed limit change looks unlikely to do that. And it appears that it ...
Political parties that want to negotiate with the Green Party must come to the table with much faster, bolder climate action, co-leaders James Shaw and Marama Davidson emphasised in their State of the Planet speech today. ...
Political parties that want to negotiate with the Green Party after the election must come to the table with much faster, bolder climate action, co-leaders James Shaw and Marama Davidson emphasised today. ...
You will never truly understand, from the pictures youâve seen in the newspapers or on the six o-clock news, the sheer scale of the devastation wrought by Cyclone Gabrielle. ...
Weâre boosting incomes and helping ease cost of living pressures on Kiwis through a range of bread and butter support measures that will see pensioners, students, families, and those on main benefits better off from the start of next month. ...
The error Labour Ministers made by stopping work on a beverage container return scheme will be reversed by the Greens at the earliest opportunity as part of the next Government. ...
âCabinet needs to do better - and today has shown exactly why we need Green Ministers in cabinet, so we can prioritise action to cut climate pollution and support people to make ends meet,â says Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson. ...
Biggest increase in food prices for over three decades shows the need for an excess profit tax on corporations to help people put food on the table. ...
The Green Party has today launched a submission guide to help Aucklanders give crucial input and prevent potentially disastrous Auckland Council budget proposals. ...
With calls growing for inquiries and action on bank profits, the Greens say the Government has all the information it needs to act now and put a levy on banks. ...
As large parts of Aotearoa recover from two of the worst climate disasters we have ever experienced, it would be a huge mistake for the Government to deprioritise climate action from future transport investments, the Green Party says. ...
The Green Party is celebrating the signing of a historic United Nations Ocean Treaty, and calls on the new Oceans and Fisheries Minister to urgently step up protection for Aotearoaâs oceans. ...
$2.9 million convertible loan for Scapegrace Distillery to meet growing national and international demand $4.5m underwrite to support Silverlight Studiosâ project to establish a film studio in Wanaka Goreâs James Cumming Community Centre and Library to be official opened tomorrow with support of $3m from the COVID-19 Response and Recovery ...
Transport Minister Michael Wood has today launched the first national EV (electric vehicle) charging strategy, Charging Our Future, which includes plans to provide EV charging stations in almost every town in New Zealand. âOur vision is for Aotearoa New Zealand to have world-class EV charging infrastructure that is accessible, affordable, ...
Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment Priyanca Radhakrishnan has today launched the Love Better campaign in a world-leading approach to family harm prevention. Love Better will initially support young people through their experience of break-ups, developing positive and life-long attitudes to dealing with hurt. âOver 1,200 young kiwis told ...
Hon Rino Tirikatene, Minister for Courts, welcomes the Ministry of Justiceâs appointment of Dr Garry Clearwater as New Zealandâs first Chief Clinical Advisor working with the Coroners Court. âThis appointment is significant for the Coroners Court and New Zealandâs wider coronial system.â Minister Tirikatene said. Through Budget 2022, the Government ...
The Government via the Cyclone Taskforce is working with local government and insurance companies to build a picture of high-risk areas following Cyclone Gabrielle and January floods. âThe Taskforce, led by Sir Brian Roche, has been working with insurance companies to undertake an assessment of high-risk areas so we can ...
E te huia kaimanawa, ko NgÄpuhi e whakahari ana i tau aupikinga ki te tihi o te maunga. Ko te Ao MÄori hoki e whakanui ana i a koe te whakaihu waka o te reo MÄori i roto i te Ao Ture. (To the prized treasure, it is NgÄpuhi who ...
113,400 exits into work in the year to June 2022 Young people are moving off Benefit faster than after the Global Financial Crisis Two reports released today by the Ministry of Social Development show the Governmentâs investment in the COVID-19 response helped drive record numbers of people off Benefits and ...
The Governmentâs priority to keep New Zealand at the cutting edge of food production and lift our sustainability credentials continues by backing the next steps of a hi-tech vertical farming venture that uses up to 95 per cent less water, is climate resilient, and pesticide-free. Agriculture Minister Damien OâConnor visited ...
E nga mana, e nga iwi, e nga reo, e nga hau e wha, tena koutou, tena koutou, tena koutou kÄtoa. Warm Pacific greetings to all. It is an honour to host the inaugural Conference of Pacific Education Ministers here in TÄmaki Makaurau. Aotearoa is delighted to be hosting you ...
The new renal unit at Taranaki Base Hospital has been officially opened by the Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall this afternoon. Te Huhi RaupĆ received around $13 million in government funding as part of Project Maunga Stage 2, the redevelopment of the Taranaki Base Hospital campus. âItâs an honour ...
Defence Minister Andrew Little has marked the arrival of the countryâs second P-8A Poseidon aircraft alongside personnel at the Royal New Zealand Air Forceâs Base at Ohakea today. âWith two of the four P-8A Poseidons now on home soil this marks another significant milestone in the Governmentâs historic investment in ...
Aotearoa New Zealand will provide further humanitarian support to those seriously affected by last monthâs deadly earthquakes in TĂŒrkiye and Syria, says Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta. âThe 6 February earthquakes have had devastating consequences, with almost 18 million people affected. More than 53,000 people have died and tens of thousands more ...
Migrant communities across New Zealand are represented in the new Migrant Community Reference Group that will help shape immigration policy going forward, Immigration Minister Michael Wood announced today. Â âSince becoming Minister, a reoccurring message I have heard from migrants is the feeling their voice has often been missing around policy ...
Construction has begun on major works that will deliver significant safety improvements on State Highway 3 from Waitara to Bell Block, Associate Minister of Transport Kiri Allan announced today. âThis is an important route for communities, freight and visitors to Taranaki but too many people have lost their lives or ...
Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has today appointed Ginny Andersen as Minister of Police. âGinny Andersen has a strong and relevant background in this important portfolio,â Chris Hipkins said. âGinny Andersen worked for the Police as a non-sworn staff member for around 10 years and has more recently been chair of ...
Six further bailey bridge sites confirmed Four additional bridge sites under consideration 91 per cent of damaged state highways reopened Recovery Dashboards for impacted regions released The Government has responded quickly to restore lifeline routes after Cyclone Gabrielle and can today confirm that an additional six bailey bridges will ...
Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta departs for China tomorrow, where she will meet with her counterpart, State Councillor and Foreign Minister Qin Gang, in Beijing. This will be the first visit by a New Zealand Minister to China since 2019, and follows the easing of COVID-19 travel restrictions between New Zealand and China. ...
Education Ministers from across the Pacific will gather in TÄmaki Makaurau this week to share their collective knowledge and strategic vision, for the benefit of Äkonga across the region. New Zealand Education Minister Jan Tinetti will host the inaugural Conference of Pacific Education Ministers (CPEM) for three days from today, ...
A vital transport link for communities and local businesses has been restored following Cyclone Gabrielle with the reopening of State Highway 5 (SH5) between Napier and TaupĆ, Associate Minister of Transport Kiri Allan says. SH5 reopened to all traffic between 7am and 7pm from today, with closure points at SH2 (Kaimata ...
Internal Affairs Minister Barbara Edmonds has thanked generous New Zealanders who took part in the special Lotto draw for communities affected by Cyclone Gabrielle. Held on Saturday night, the draw raised $11.7 million with half of all ticket sales going towards recovery efforts. âIn a time of need, New Zealanders ...
The Government has announced funding of $3 million for providers to help people, and whÄnau access community-based Building Financial Capability services. âDemand for Financial Capability Services is growing as people face cost of living pressures. Those pressures are increasing further in areas affected by flooding and Cyclone Gabrielle,â Minister for ...
Minister of Education, Hon Jan Tinetti, has announced appointments to the Board of Education New Zealand | Manapou ki te Ao. Tracey Bridges is joining the Board as the new Chair and Dr Therese Arseneau will be a new member. Current members Dr Linda Sissons CNZM and Daniel Wilson have ...
Fifteen Äkonga MÄori from across Aotearoa have been awarded the prestigious Ngarimu VC and 28th (MÄori) Battalion Memorial Scholarships and Awards for 2023, Associate Education Minister and Ngarimu Board Chair, Kelvin Davis announced today. Â The recipients include doctoral, mastersâ and undergraduate students. Three vocational training students and five wharekura students, ...
High Court Judge Jillian Maree Mallon has been appointed a Judge of the Court of Appeal, and District Court Judge Andrew John Becroft QSO has been appointed a Judge of the High Court, AttorneyâGeneral David Parker announced today. Justice Mallon graduated from Otago University in 1988 with an LLB (Hons), and with ...
The economy has continued to show its resilience despite todayâs GDP figures showing a modest decline in the December quarter, leaving the Government well positioned to help New Zealanders face cost of living pressures in a challenging global environment. âThe economy had grown strongly in the two quarters before this ...
Aucklanders now have more ways to get around as Transport Minister Michael Wood opened the direct State Highway 1 (SH1) to State Highway 18 (SH18) underpass today, marking the completion of the 48-kilometre Western Ring Route (WRR). âThe Government is upgrading New Zealandâs transport system to make it safer, more ...
This section contains briefings received by incoming ministers following changes to Cabinet in January. Some information may have been withheld in accordance with the Official Information Act 1982. Where information has been withheld that is indicated within the document. ...
Aotearoa New Zealand Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta reaffirmed her commitment to working together with the new Government of Fiji on issues of shared importance, including on the prioritisation of climate change and sustainability, at a meeting today, in Nadi. Fiji and Aotearoa New Zealandâs close relationship is underpinned by the Duavata ...
The Government is delivering a coastal shipping lifeline for businesses, residents and the primary sector in the cyclone-stricken regions of Hawkes Bay and TairÄwhiti, Regional Development Minister Kiri Allan announced today. The Rangitata vessel has been chartered for an emergency coastal shipping route between Gisborne and Napier, with potential for ...
The Government will progress to the next stage of the NZ Battery Project, looking at the viability of pumped hydro as well as an alternative, multi-technology approach as part of the Governmentâs long term-plan to build a resilient, affordable, secure and decarbonised energy system in New Zealand, Energy and Resources ...
This morning I was made aware of a media interview in which Minister Stuart Nash criticised a decision of the Court and said he had contacted the Police Commissioner to suggest the Police appeal the decision. The phone call took place in 2021 when he was not the Police Minister. ...
The Governmentâs sharp focus on trade continues with Aotearoa New Zealand set to host Trade Ministers and delegations from 10 Asia Pacific economies at a meeting of Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) Commission members in July, Minister for Trade and Export Growth Damien OâConnor announced today. âNew Zealand ...
$25 million boost to support more businesses with clean-up in cyclone affected regions, taking total business support to more than $50 million Demand for grants has been strong, with estimates showing applications will exceed the initial $25 million business support package Grants of up to a maximum of $40,000 per ...
80 per cent of 2021 Resident Visas applications have been processed â three months ahead of schedule Residence granted to 160,000 people 84,000 of 85,000 applications have been approved Over 160,000 people have become New Zealand residents now that 80 per cent of 2021 Resident Visa (2021RV) applications have been ...
The Government continues to invest in New Zealandâs burgeoning space industry, today announcing five scholarships for Kiwi Students to undertake internships at NASAâs Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in California. Economic Development Minister Stuart Nash congratulated Michaela Dobson (University of Auckland), Leah Albrow (University of Canterbury) and Jack Naish, Celine Jane ...
The Lead Coordination Minister for the Governmentâs Response to the Royal Commissionâs Report into the Terrorist Attack on the Christchurch Mosques travels to Melbourne, Australia today to represent New Zealand at the fourth Sub-Regional Meeting on Counter-Terrorism and Transnational Security. âThe Government is committed to reducing the threat of terrorism ...
The health and safety practices at our nationâs ports will be improved as part of a new industry-wide action plan, Workplace Relations and Safety, and Transport Minister Michael Wood has announced. âFollowing the tragic death of two port workers in Auckland and Lyttelton last year, I asked the Port Health ...
Bikes, electric bikes and scooters will be added to the types of transport exempted from fringe benefit tax under changes proposed today. Revenue Minister David Parker said the change would allow bicycles, electric bicycles, scooters, electric scooters, and micro-mobility share services to be exempt from fringe benefit tax where they ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta will hold bilateral meetings with Fiji this week. The visit will be her first to the country since the election of the new coalition Government led by Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Sitiveni Rabuka. The visit will be an opportunity to meet kanohi ki ...
The Government is introducing the Severe Weather Emergency Legislation Bill to ensure the recovery and rebuild from Cyclone Gabrielle is streamlined and efficient with unnecessary red tape removed. The legislation is similar to legislation passed following the Christchurch and KaikĆura earthquakes that modifies existing legislation in order to remove constraints ...
Ahead of tax season, Avast , a leading digital security and privacy brand of Gen âą (NASDAQ: GEN), is warning New Zealanders of increased scam activity as cybercriminals prey on taxpayers' vulnerability during a time when they are expecting their tax ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards. Political Roundup:Â The Beehive’s revolving door and corporate mateship New Zealanders are uncomfortable with the high level of influence corporate lobbyists have in New Zealand politics, and demands are growing for greater regulation. A recent poll shows 62 per cent of the public support having a ...
In the year ended June 2022, 1 in 4 households that were renting were spending more than 40 percent of their disposable income on housing costs, compared with 1 in 5 households that were paying a mortgage, according to figures released by Stats NZ ...
Child poverty rates for the year ended June 2022 were unchanged compared with the previous year, according to figures released by Stats NZ today. âChild poverty statistics have not changed compared with last year,â general manager social and ...
The former broadcaster Liz Gunn, who has become a vocal figure within the anti-vaccination movement in New Zealand, has appeared in court today after an alleged airport altercation earlier this year. Gunn pleaded not guilty to charges of assault, trespass and resisting arrest over the incident at Auckland International Airport. ...
You donât need to go to wildlife sanctuaries to see native birds, bugs and reptiles.This is an excerpt from our weekly environmental newsletter Future Proof brought to you by Electric Kiwi â sign up here. Recently I wrote a feature for New Zealand Geographic on weeds â it turns out, a ...
Rental costs have hit a record high, according to new statistics released this morning. Trade Me has reported that the national median rent was up to $600 in February â a jump of 4%, or $25, when compared with the same month in 2022. Itâs not unusual to see rent ...
The Free Speech Union welcomes the decision by Immigration New Zealand to not suspend Kellie-Kay Keen-Minshull's NZeTA and to allow her entry into the country, says Jonathan Ayling, Chief Executive of the Free Speech Union. âThe Free Speech Union envisions ...
HeartLandNZ represents provincial New Zealand, the heart of the nation, the men and women, workers, contractors, businesses and farmers in the successful primary production sector. For over 30 years these voters have been economically ...
This week, Hera Lindsay Bird ponders whether itâs better to leave a party too early or too late.Want Heraâs help? Email your problem to [email protected]Dear Hera,How can you tell when something is over? A recurring theme through my life is sticking around way past the due date. There have been ...
Nationalâs new education policy will focus on the first eight years of education â primary and intermediate â in an effort to prepare students for high school. The opposition will formally unveil their policy later today â coincidentally (or likely not) in the prime ministerâs electorate of Upper Hutt. Erica ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Yen Ying Lim, Associate Professor, Monash University ShutterstockDementia is an umbrella term to describe a progressive neurological condition that affects peopleâs cognitive abilities, such as memory, language and reasoning. Alzheimerâs is the most common form, but other common ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Green, Host + Producer, The Conversation A comparison between two views of the same coral reef on Kiritimati, taken by University of Victoria scientists.Danielle Claar, Kristina Tietjen/University of Victoria Earlier this week, the United Nationsâ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Graham Edgar, Senior Marine Ecologist, Institute for Marine and Antarctic Studies, University of Tasmania Graham Edgar/Reef Life Survey, Author provided Marine heatwaves are damaging reef ecosystems around Australia, but while the tropical north has received the lionâs share of the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Steven Burch, Lecturer in Accounting, University of Tasmania Shutterstock One of the priorities of the federal governmentâs sweeping Universities Accord is to improve employment conditions in higher education. This is long overdue. Australiaâs university sector once set the standard for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Liam Davies, PhD Candidate, Centre for Urban Research, RMIT University Image: David Kelly, Author provided Australia is in the grip of a housing crisis, with low-income households hit hardest by rising rents and falling vacancy rates. Social housing tenants were ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kristie Patricia Flannery, Research Fellow, Institute for Humanities and Social Sciences, Australian Catholic University Francisco V. Coching’s Rendition of Gabriela Silang Charging on a Mount, 1986 (Ayala Museum). It was around this time of year back in 1763 that Filipino rebels ...
The governmentâs planning to roll out dozens of new electric vehicle charging stations across the country in new âhubsâ that would operate similar to existing petrol stations. The âcharging our futureâ strategy has set a target of bringing in new hubs ever 150 to 200 kilometres along the state highways, ...
This morning we bring you an exclusive on The Spinoff from Dylan Cleaver. Wellington rugby stalwart, one-game All Black and former New Zealand First MP Tutekawa Wyllie has had his probable chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) condition recognised and compensated for by the ACC after a five-year campaign. CTE is a brain ...
New Zealand joins countries around the world by banning TikTok on government-issued devices as the US threatens an outright ban on the popular social media app, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoffâs morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here.  ...
Big building supply companies have fended off competition by wrapping desirable blocks of land in legal constraints on generations of NZers, alarming the Commerce Commission into issuing a far-reaching warning. Jonathan Milne reports. ...
The Green Party is announcing Teall Crossen as their candidate for the Nelson Whakatƫ electorate. Teall is an environmental barrister and activist with two decades of experience advocating for the rights of people and nature in the Courts in Aotearoa, ...
NZ Rugby wants to triple the number of female rugby referees - starting with the rise of Natarsha Ganley to Super Rugby honours, and handing a whistle to an Aupiki star player in a new scholarship. Suzanne McFadden writes. Natarsha Ganley loves rules. So during the week, she's on the lookout for ...
Exclusive: All Black turned NZ First MP Tutekawa Wyllie and his wife Margaret have won a landmark battle that could open the floodgates for rugby-related head injury claims. Dylan Cleaver reports.Wellington rugby stalwart, one-game All Black and former New Zealand First MP Tutekawa Wyllie has had his probable chronic ...
Do the results in Mt Albert, Wellington Central and Christchurch East amount to thumbing noses at head office, or are they a sign of party strength?Across three Labour selection contests in three high-profile electorates over the last fortnight, candidates have succeeded from local foundations in seeing off rivals considered ...
Cyclone Gabrielleâs hammering of Hawkes Bay has ignited fears in Southland of bridges failing and farmland flooding through âmismanagementâ of accumulated gravel Southland farmer Barry Taylor is frustrated gravel is being allowed to build up beneath a bridge on one of the countryâs key tourist routes despite his years of ...
This week's anti-trans rally is straight out of the right-wing playbook With strange and toxic prescience, a subject from the new study Histories of Hate:The Radical Right in Aotearoa New Zealand has leapt from the pages of the book into a major news story this week. The ...
More than half of Aotearoa may need to be in native ngahere (bush) to merely blunt future worsening storms, but without such revolutionary change, Aotearoa could descend into a spiral of social, ecological, and economic damage Much of our land is without any trees, or is without the right trees, ...
Unlike other countries around the world, New Zealand has no regulations about lobbying. Is change needed to ensure greater transparency about who's influencing our decision-makers? If you want to know who lobbies the Australian government on behalf of Air New Zealand, you simply go to an online register, type ...
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Opinion - There's plenty of research supporting lowering the voting age to 16. Public debate and the law just need to catch up, Claire Breen writes. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes âWord from The Hillâ, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversationâs politics team. In this podcast Michelle and ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jingdong Yuan, Associate Professor, Asia-Pacific security, University of Sydney Chinese President Xi Jinpingâs trip to Moscow this week has been more about reiterating China and Russiaâs shared interests, and less about any concrete pathway towards ending the war in Ukraine. While a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Treena Clark, Chancellorâs Postdoctoral Indigenous Research Fellow, Faculty of Design, Architecture and Building, University of Technology Sydney This May, Wiradjuri woman Denni Francisco and her label Ngali will be the first Indigenous designer to have a solo show at Australian Fashion Week. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Treena Clark, Chancellorâs Postdoctoral Indigenous Research Fellow, Faculty of Design, Architecture and Building, University of Technology Sydney This May, Wiradjuri woman Denni Francisco and her label Ngali will be the first Indigenous designer to have a solo show at Australian Fashion Week. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Catherine Robinson, Associate Professor in Housing and Communities, University of Tasmania Shutterstock Thousands of children end up being homeless in Australia without a parent or guardian. In 2021-22, 12,812 children (aged 10-17) were on their own when they sought help ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Catherine Robinson, Associate Professor in Housing and Communities, University of Tasmania Shutterstock Thousands of children end up being homeless in Australia without a parent or guardian. In 2021-22, 12,812 children (aged 10-17) were on their own when they sought help ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra There has been a lot of talk about the risk of financial contagion following the collapse of Californiaâs Silicon Valley Bank. Perhaps too much talk. While the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra There has been a lot of talk about the risk of financial contagion following the collapse of Californiaâs Silicon Valley Bank. Perhaps too much talk. While the ...
A Pacific elder and former secretary-general of the Pacific Islands Forum says Pacific leaders need to sit up and pay closer attention to AUKUS and the Indo-Pacific strategy and Chinaâs response to them. Speaking from Port Moresby in Papua New Guinea, Dame Meg Taylor said Pacific leaders were being sidelined ...
The government says it should have details on which weather-hit areas are high risk within three weeks, and can then make decisions about rebuilding. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Carly Tozer, Senior Research Scientist, CSIRO Dean Lewins/AAPLa Niña and El Niño are well-known terms in Australia these days. Linked to them are certain expectations: we expect wet conditions in La Niña and dry conditions in El Niño. These ...
Promoters say The Game has pulled out of his upcoming appearance at two legs of a new New Zealand hip-hop festival, continuing the Compton rapperâs sketchy attendance record in Aotearoa. In an announcement made on Facebook today, promoters Room Service say The Game, real name Jayceon Taylor, has âlast-minute commitmentsâ ...
Counter-protests are planned for this weekend as a controversial anti-trans campaigner speaks in two New Zealand cities. Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull will be allowed into the country after Immigration NZ said the threshold to stop her had not been reached. In a tweet, Rainbow Greens, the group that released an open letter ...
We asked workers at some of our favourite food establishments to show us what they eat when the rush is over.This is an excerpt from our weekly food newsletter The Boil Up. Last week was Work Week on The Spinoff, dedicated to unpacking our relationship with the world ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards. Political Roundup:Â Who will drain Wellington’s lobbying swamp? Wealthy vested interests have an oversized influence on political decisions in New Zealand. Partly that’s due to their use of corporate lobbyists. Fortunately, the influence lobbyists can have on decisions made by politicians is currently under scrutiny in ...
65 percent of Kiwis surveyed admit they would have no idea what to do if their identity was stolen Norton, a leading consumer Cyber Safety brand of Gen, today announced the New Zealand launch of Nortonâą 360 Platinum, which leverages the company's ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Claire Breen, Professor of Law, University of Waikato Getty Images There might have been pragmatic political reasons behind the government throwing voting-age legislation onto its recent policy bonfire, but it remains a sadly wasted opportunity. The announcement reversed former ...
ANALYSIS:By Bevin Veale, Massey University The impending arrival of Kelly-Jean Keen-Minshull â aka Posie Parker â has put the spotlight on the tension between free speech and protecting vulnerable communities in Aotearoa New Zealand. In particular, it raises questions about Immigration New Zealandâs role in limiting who can visit ...
Wairoa has ready-to-go projects that could be accelerated to quickly get people back into homes following Cyclone Gabrielle, Minister Willie Jackson was told on a visit to Wairoa today. TÄtau TÄtau o Te Wairoa is seeking a Government commitment ...
A new report published by the New Zealand Taxpayersâ Union exposes the bad decision-making that led to a 61% cost blowout in Aucklandâs City Rail Link and shows that the costs of the project now significantly outweigh any benefits. âThe City Rail Link: ...
Immigration NZ has today confirmed that the controversial anti-trans campaigner Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull will be allowed into New Zealand for her speaking events this week. You can read our report here â and the full statement from Immigration NZâs Richard Owen to the media is below: âI can confirm that ...
Immigration NZ says it knows some people will be unhappy, but ultimately the threshold to bar Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull from New Zealand hasnât been reached.The British anti-transgender campaigner Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull, also known as Posie Parker, will be allowed into New Zealand this weekend, Immigration NZ has confirmed.Keen-Minshullâs ability to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Stevens, Adjunct Associate Professor, University of Adelaide Antarctica is an icy place today, but the ice extended even further during past ice ages. The question of how and where life survived on land in the icy continent, through the ages, has ...
Like a Tongan Cool Runnings, with trumpets instead of bobsleds, Red, White & Brass is a feel-good movie based on an incredible true story. First-time film producer Halaifonua Finau tells Sela Jane Hopgood how he got it made.In 2016, promising new Tongan producer Halaifonua Finau was sitting in the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ben Thomas Gleeson, Doctoral Candidate, Australian National University Luz Rovira / Flickr, CC BY-NC-ND In the 19th century, Charles Darwin was one of the first to notice something interesting about domesticated animals: different species often developed similar changes when compared ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katharine Kemp, Senior Lecturer, Faculty of Law & Justice, UNSW Sydney New research reveals serious privacy flaws in fertility apps used by Australian consumers â emphasising the need for urgent reform of the Privacy Act. Fertility apps provide a number ...
The Fiji Times âThe University of the South Pacific (USP) has been and continues to be a bedrock for regionalism. A resource owned by the region; for the region and a precious institution that needs to be protected in line with the vision of our forebearers.â This was the message ...
By Claudia Tally in Port Moresby A Papua New Guinean family who have been renting a property from the National Housing Corporation for the past 46 years have been served with a 24-hour eviction notice by a different owner who had obtained an eviction notice from the Port Moresby District ...
Auckland mayor Wayne Brownâs plans to cut back on spending could see the council quit Local Government NZ, the group that represents councils across the country. Stuffâs Todd Niall has reported that $400,000 would be saved by the move, with mayor Brown reportedly wanting to direct that money into other ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Frederic Gachon, Associate Professor, Physiology of Circadian Rhythms, Institute for Molecular Bioscience, The University of Queensland Gregory Pappas/Unsplash Some of us love to be tucked up in bed by a particular time every night, ensuring a certain number of hours ...
The government has launched campaign to help young people navigate break-ups with the long-term aim of preventing family violence, believed to be the first of its kind. ...
The government has launched campaign to help young people navigate break-ups with the long-term aim of preventing family violence, believed to be the first of its kind. ...
Sports can be hugely beneficial for children but there are still many barriers for trans kids wanting to play, writes researcher Julia de Bres.Thereâs been a lot of talk recently about trans athletes in high performance sport, much of which derives from a broader anti-trans project rather than a ...
A new documentary follows Amber Clyde, skateboarder and founder of Girls Skate NZ, as she works to rebuild her confidence in the sport while juggling solo motherhood.Amber Clyde remembers being bullied as the only girl at the skate park in Birkenhead â but these days all the same bullies ...
After dedicating years to helping young women find their confidence in skateboarding, Amber Clyde must teach herself how to get back on the board after the birth of her second child. But balancing the realities of being a solo Mum with running her own business means that her time is ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Arthur Immanuel Crichton, PhD candidate, Flinders University Relative of _Chunia pledgei_ named _Ektopodon serratus_ (top left), with _Wakaleo oldfieldi_.Reconstruction of the early Miocene Kutjumarpu faunal assemblage by Peter Schouten, CC BY-SA Imagine a vast, lush forest dominated by giant flightless birds ...
Was listening to Shearer on Morning Report. Just realised that my jaw has been sore as I have been clenching my teeth in trepidation that he might trip over his tongue. Whew. He hasn’t been THAT bad. Some good points made.
Especially the comments about vested interests in the real estate industry making a lot of money out of foreign sales.
Best form of defence is attack. Question the motivation of these opponents.
Just heard a bit of Him defending Labour’s latest move on housing, interestingly someone here was having a nit-pick about Dave (the incumbent),calling the policy ‘his’ the other day,and, that’s the only point where he stumbled having to self edit meant that this came out as ”my/our policy”,
Dave,(the incumbent),has come along in leaps and bounds in being able to deliver the message without the aaah ummm extended silence that punctuated His earlier efforts,
He still tho has one major problem in that those that didn’t get their Dave,(not the incumbent),into the top spot still wont accept Him as leader with a large full stop…
The closer we get to the election, the less indifference Cunliffe supporters will show, I reckon. Whatever their feelings about the leadership, I’m confidant the prospect of knocking off Key will be enough for most Labour supporters to put the party, and NZ, ahead of their antipathy toward Shearer.
Let me correct you TRP.
There was no antipathy towards Shearer to begin with. Just a belief that Cunliffe was the better candidate. The antipathy resided with the ABC Club who chose to be malevolent towards Cunliffe and anyone who had supported him.
Knocking off Key has always been the number one priority. There’s no reason why Shearer can’t do it, and I know of no-one who won’t be cheering him on. If he has the nous to stop listening to Cunliffe’s detractors and places Cunliffe back on the front bench where he belongs then all the better…
“Captain Mumblefuck” was a term of endearment? Good to know.
TV debates my good sir, the bloody election will be lost on the 2%-3% swing around the TV debates. Better be no mumbling then.
And then it will be too late to get rid of him if he fucks it up. And then we have 3 more years of a bunch of sell it all megalomaniacs, better he stands down now, in deference to someone who can at least string a sentence together, without stumbling ad mumbling all over the place. And his preoccupation with the word ‘I’. Someone needs to tell him that there is NO ‘I’ in TEAM. And he NEEDS a team to win and at the moment that is the biggest missing link in the Labour Party at present. So no team no win!
But there are two “I”s in “politics”. And three in “Prime Minister” đ
But without a team he’s just another also ran. Who will lose his shirt, and us our assets, there is too much at stake to have a NON team player in charge!
+1. Absolutely. Someone seems to have told him he should say “I” to show he’s in charge, or something. It needs to be “we”. It’s a team that makes policy, not Shearer, it’ll be a team that gets elected and implements policy.
No need to compete with Key by saying “I”. It’s fine for National to continue to show they’re all told what to do in every area of policy by a dodgy money trader.
I know of no Labour Party member who used that term. Even so, it was ultra mild compared to what some were calling Cunliffe. You do have a very selective memory sometimes McFlock.
Well, here’s the list of folk who’ve used it here. Not all of them are tory concern trools.
Can’t tell from that list who are Labour Party members though. Might be better to search “mumblefuck” +colonial viper etc.
forgot that the search engine here can’t handle multiple words well.
and then there’s trying to remember the people who’ve [plausibly] claimed to be Labour members.
Quite happy to say that I have not (IIRC) and will not call Shearer by that nickname.
He should wear it as a badge of honour, reclaim the language, that sort of thing đ
Oh, I’ve used the term.
But only – and I really must stress this point – only because he’s a mumbling useless fuck.
gods darn it, you really kill me.
are you a labour member?
No, just someone who wants to vote for them. Silly dream, I know.
You missed me. And I have, until this time, voted labour for the last 40 years. But not this time. Why should I vote for someone who does not give a rats arse about us, who is only interested in being the leader, even if the fucking shooting box goes down the crapper. And that’s what Mumblefucks legacy will be! The man who sank democracy in NZ, for a pay packet, and a fucking title. Way to go Shearer!
Ah, thanks.
So much for Anne’s “I know of no Labour Party member who used that term”.
So much for this bullshit about nice people versus intractable careerists who would bring labour down to keep their jobs for three more years. Maybe if you guys can get over yourselves, then you could help the Left get somewhere rather than feeding bullshit to jonolists.
Just checking. Are you referring to the caucus ABCs as well?
To be fair, there’s a huge difference between Anne saying she didn’t know of something happening, and saying she knows something didn’t happen.
She claimed the former, you’re holding her to the latter.
Awwww CV, just because they’re tossers (if they even exist as a distinct group that is as entrenched as the acronym implies), you wanna be a tosser too?
Now what did you learn in kindy about that approach when you wanted to play with truckie and another kid wouldn’t let you?
Felix: not really. I’m pointing out she was wrong, that her perception was off. The cunliffe-crowd have given much more than they’ve got in dirty behaviour, if comments I’ve seen here are anything to go by. And if comments here aren’t anything to go by, then that speaks for itself.
Shearer is a dud =/= Cunliffe supporter. You’ve never really grasped that, McF.
So you were excepting the ABC’s from your own wise advice about moving the left ahead and not feeding the jonolists, McFlock?
idiot.
I didn’t coin it until he proved himself to be an incoherent, stumbling fool whenever asked difficult questions like “what is your policy?”
you’re not a labour member, by any chance?
Come on QoT, he’s only been in the job 18 months. Give him another six, eh.
Anne, I thought Shearer not sprinting to the front of the hall at the GCSB meeting to grab the mic, instead allowing Cunliffe to speak and applauding what he said was an indication that he trusts Cunliffe, so maybe the front bench isn’t out of the question.
You sure that the fact that he was boxed in and couldn’t reach the front of the room or the mike didn’t have something to do with it?
It does look good TRP. And I’m hoping it’s going to happen soon because we need Cunliffe there.
Btw, there’s no way he could sprint to the front of that hall. It was jam packed like sardines. No-one was going to sprint anywhere.
TRP I would’ve thought it was a good sign too if only Shearer didn’t look so nervous and frightened by it.
Hear, hear, Anne. I ventured into David Cunliffe’s office today to pick up some flyers to be delivered re the Power N Z meeting this Saturday at Kelston and walked out feeling generally despondent. I keep hoping that DC will be back on the front bench very soon.
“The antipathy resided with the ABC Club who chose to be malevolent towards Cunliffe and anyone who had supported him.”
Well, yeah. The clue is kinda in the acronym…
Hey, cut it. You silly pawn.
Stop, for goodness sake, framing it as “anti Shearer = pro Cunliffe”.
You are eating the lines of the TV3 news-creators and Robertson.
All Labour supporters want a fairer society and to urgently roll back the inequities driven by Key & Co.
How fucking dare you accuse hard working and extremely patient Labour members of ever putting anything ahead of that. My attitude towards the leadership is driven by that one cannon.
Over the past year you, TRP, have pretended to be open minded on your support for one leader over another: yet invariably saying … Let us not change anything.
That bullshit has us heading to an election defeat and three more years of Key and a very unfair society.
Because most of your hard work here seems to be spent on abusing Labour rather than National.
And I think you meant “canon”.
Yeah, because typos or incorrect spelling are really important right now.
“Because most of your hard work here seems to be spent on abusing Labour rather than National.”
But bad12 didn’t refer to the standard, so it’s reasonable to assume he meant all Cunliffe supporters and all Labour people who have criticised Shearer.
There are very good reasons why the dominant narrative here has been anti-Shearer. I think you are one of the few people who doesn’t get it.
Eeeek, how did i get into the conversation this far into the debate Dave V Dave, umm no my previous comment didn’t mention the Standard, but, the basis of my comment when it comes to the acceptance of the incumbent Dave is solely based around what i have read here at the Standard,
In the real world i don’t tend to have conversations with Labour supporters about who they support as leader, as i am not a Labour voter nor member such inquistions would possibly be seen rightly or wrongly as stirring…
But when B referred to “all Labour supporters”, it is reasonable to assume that those who comment here are a subset of that, no? Including B? Unless of course B is just another commentator overly concerned about the leadership of a party they don’t even vote for.
I get that there are good reasons to not be particularly impressed or awed by Shearer as leader, but no, I don’t get why people are so anti to the extremes that some people seem to be.
If you think that the leadership is not a pivotal issue and that Labour is still on course for victory, of course the complaining will seem unnecessary and extremist.
Rhino referencing a woodchipper was extreme. The extreme end of behaviour here, but I still don’t get it (even in jest). I don’t get how people can call a simple internal equality policy political suicide, especially this far out from the election. Nor do I get why people complain that not mentioning state housing policy while announcing other policy is a sign of closeted neoliberalism.
Criticism, that I can understand. But jumping at ideological shadows like some sort of lame “ghost hunting” reality TV show? Nah, I don’t get it.
“I donât get why people are so anti to the extremes that some people seem to be.”
Pretty simple. Many see the problem within Labour (the ABCs and Shearer) as preventing any shift away from the neoliberal clusterfuck are are in. This time period will be remember as the second time in my generation that Labour betrayed the country. It’s not as obvious as the 80s, but we’re in a holding pattern now waiting for the ABCs to retire or die. We can’t afford that wait.
Bigger picture McFlock. It’s not about Shearer, it’s about why Shearer is leader at this point in time and why nothing is being done about it.
Putting aside the vexed question of just WHO should be sitting in the leaders chair for the moment can i ask you Weka if you firmly believe that, just to be topical, Labour would have a different housing policy than the one announced???,
Would David Cunliffe have a different ‘flagship policy’ and if so can you cite such a policy difference???
The leadership of Labour where i am concerned is one of who can sell Labour to the electorate the best,
As a supporter of those way further left than Labour i have to realize that to make any gains which betters my level of society, my class if we want to be ugly but totally realistic, Labour will be the party of Government that such gains if they can be made must be chiseled off of,
Much of the denigration of the current Labour leader seems to me to be more propelled by those who want the party to be something that it just is not,
How different in issues of ‘bread and butter’ would Labour be if it swapped one Dave for the other Dave, i would suggest that there would be very little difference as the middle class have grown Labour have grown into being middle class with it and are thus intent on formulating policy that definitely benefits that middle class,
Labour as a % of the party vote are then quite naturally a party in the 30,s as far as % goes, the Green Party, Mana Party, and, Maori Party hold the 15% of further left than Labour support that MMP allows the freedom of choice…
I agree with much of that bad, and like you am fairly pragmatic in that I’m not expecting Labour to be moving radically left any time soon. So do I think that under Cunliffe Labour would be making different policy? Not particularly, but I guess there would be more room to move left (as opposed to the very thin space now). My point was more that it looks to me like the people in power in caucus would rather be in power in opposition than allow change to happen. That’s the betrayal. They’ll let NACT have another 3 years while they’re playing stupid factional power games internally. Don’t know how the membership can stand it.
Bigger picture, okay:
Labour policy is pretty good so far.
Ideal government will involve Labour + greens + mana.
Greens are likely to get 10â15% of the vote.
Therefore labour needs 35â40% of the vote, so anything mana gets above that is gravy.
Currently, 35% for labour in a campaign is easily doable. 40% would be a big stretch of probability, but not so much in a year’s time. Things change.
So, what’s the big deal? Why do people get so worked up, calling commenters “pawns” or tools of TPTB. I don’t get it.
10 + 35 = 45
Yeah, let’s just trundle along, tralalala, not to worry, she’ll be right.
I suppose the big deal is that as bad as things are now, another 3 years of NACT will do irrepairable damage to that country. Exponentially more than they have done now and than they did in the 90s.
Someone said a while back that it was ok for the left to limp over the finish line to become the next govt. What I don’t understand is why anyone would want to risk losing the next election, given what is at stake. You above post makes it sound like, oh it would be nice to win, but it’s not really that bad if we don’t. For me it’s much more critical than that.
But there is no move that would guarantee a lab/grn government. After a certain level, you just have to admit that some things are out of our control.
Would [insert here] be a better speaker than shearer during the campaign? Possibly/probably. Would that person also have some quality or problem that will be done to death by the jonolists? Yep. Would they make bad moves, as well as good? Yep. Will these be blown out of proportion by the supporters of failed candidates as well as jonolists? Probably. Would garner/gower still foment the “imminent ruction within caucus” line? Yep. [Insert here] might be able to improve the polls, but then again a new leader has new targets to hit.
So yeah, Shearer’s not perfect, but nor will his replacement be. It’s not a case of “she’ll be right”, it’s a case of recognising that point where “constructive criticism” becomes “cheap invented bullshit for jono, otherwise pointless”.
McFlock, of all the things you don’t understand, this is the biggie. It’s not that Shearer isn’t perfect. It’s that he is really bad at his job. See the difference? Even if you don’t think that he is, surely you can understand that people that do think this are really frustrated (given what is at stake) and might be more angry about the situation than you.
Good to see Phil Twyford posting in the Housing Policy thread. Liked this
Even if he were really bad at his job (which I don’t think he is), no, I don’t get how people can’t understand that they’re getting so worked up that (and I seriously believe this) they’re hampering any chance of a left wing government much more than they think Shearer’s performance is.
This isn’t a traffic accident or similar emergency, where we’re all trying to think through a massive adrenaline rush that hampers our perceptions and if we don’t act this second people die. We are all sitting in front of some manner of VDU with an input interface of some kind. I seriously don’t get how people fall into a state of hearing a competent performance on the radio and the main thrust of their comment is how they were waiting to be dismayed. That can’t be doing their blood pressure any good, and it’s not Shearer’s fault. It’s their own.
Some people really need to take some time off the political news and gossip, and just chillax for a while.
The problems with that, McF, are
1. We don’t hear consistent competent performances from Shearer.
2. Even if we did, which we don’t, “competent” isn’t going to win an election.
“Competent” is for managing a Burger King franchise without totally fucking it up.
Ummmm. For the most part Burger King pays it’s shift managers just enough to get the level of competence their organisation truly deserves…
Detail: in NZ they aren’t franchises…
felix:
1 is down to your perception, and 2 is a baseless assertion that merely serves to justify your opinion. Basically, 2 means that in order to have someone in the top job next election, Labour need someone who is outstanding in all facets as leader. There is nobody in caucus like that, so you might as well just have a smoke, enjoy the view and put the blindfold on when the time comes.
Outstanding in just 3 or 4 out of 10 facets with mere competence in the others would be fine.
Yeah it’s also only a matter perception that the sky is blue and water is wet.
He sucks at the job, McF. That’s observable, predictable, and repeatable, and everyone seems to know it but you.
(I joke of course. I don’t believe for a moment that you don’t know it. I think I can I think I can)
“Over the past year you, TRP, have pretended to be open minded on your support for one leader over another: yet invariably saying ⊠Let us not change anything.”
Not so, Boadicea.
My preffered leader is Cunliffe, though I’m leaning toward Little. However, I have consistently said that policy is more important. And I have also consistently said that the leadership is a done deal. Shearer’s it for better or worse.
Cunliffe was badly let down by the naivety of his supporters at the last conference. His chances of taking over ended there and then.
“How dare you accuse hard working and extremely patient Labour members of ever putting anything ahead of that.”
Whether you remember or not, many commenters here have said things like ‘not voting Labour till they change the leader’. What I said is that I belieive that atitude will diminish as we get closer to the election. I hope I’m right.
I have never called David Shearer names, and my anxiety about Labour under his leadership has always been based on the fear that the party has been hijacked again and is in the process of being neutered. If that fear still persists by the time of the election I will neither vote Labour nor assist Labour – I will instead vote either Green or Mana. Politicians are there to represent us. They are not there to be proxy rulers on behalf of people who do not give a damn about us.
+1
As opposed to a concerted media effort by his colleagues to attack and discredit him using lines around a non-existant coup, even before Conference had finished?
Yep, that’s how naivete works, CV. The failure to understand the implications or to guess the unintended consequences is what scuppered DC’s chances.
+10
[lprent: Santi is now on a permanent ban for violating his ban. ]
Scuppered Labour’s chances, more like.
I Have called Shearer names and I stand by what I said. Shearer is a ME, ME, Politician he uses I instead of WE ALL the time.
CunLiffe on the other Hand has the ability to explain the most complicated shit in layman’s terms so ALL voters can understand him. Key is shit scared of Cunliffe. And not only that He would wipe the floor with Key in a debate. God help us with Captain Stutterbum in the debates!
+1
That’s a galling assumption to presume the loyalty of all us volunteers, no matter what. That’s precisely the attitude that has seen members walk away over the last decade – or haven’t you noticed?
Every Labour Party member has a duty to hold the leader to account. And to support them when they perform. Indeed according to our constitution we now have the right. And so we do, including here. We invest volunteer time and expect results. Leader: deliver.
Instead, the Labour Party by every single measure is failing. Funding. Profile. Coherence. Membership. Media management. Polling. You can offload blame for that to Cunliffe loyalists all you want.
But in fact yours is the attitude that needs to change: blind loyalty – and you expect come election just press the political-guilt button again. The Labour Party is a walking hollow corpse, and those electrodes don’t work any more. With your expressed attitude, the best chance for Labour to do better is for you and people like you including caucus to look in the mirror and tell the truth.
Hear Hear! to that Ad.
I regard my vote for Labour’s 3rd term to have been partly due to “blind loyalty” and a vote for the least worst option at the time.
Not again. There are actually other options.
Thus far, I’m BEGINNING to see some good initiatives coming from Labour, and a SLIGHT improvement in Shearer’s performance, but UNTIL a few of them at least start to realise they don’t have some divine right to my vote, acknowledge more openly that the neo-liberal agenda has not worked and that they will at least explore alternatives – they’ll not get my vote again.
More than that, they sure as hell won’t get my membership or financial support again until they’ve established a decent sort of record.
Thanks, Ad and Tim for offering those words, which actually seem to confirm my point about the antipathy toward Shearer. Ad, it gives me heart to know that there are folks like you out there who can be persuaded to support Labour if the circumstances are right. For me, that’s policy. For some people, it’s leadership. I really hope that come election time, we’ll have the best of both and a better than even chance of changing NZ for the good..
BTW, if you’d read my comments down the years, you’d know it’s not blind loyalty that drives me (or, I suspect, anyone else). It’s a rational choice in a western democracy to support the social democratic party that is best placed to lead the next Government, giving the lack of a mass supported socialist alternative. The LP is not within cooee of the kind of party I’d like to be in, but I keep trying in my own small way to move it to the left.
“Itâs a rational choice in a western democracy to support the social democratic party that is best placed to lead the next Government, …etc.”
TRP – we’re in agreement, except that my point is that there is now (almost) another alternative for that ‘mass’. What’s required is for Labour to step up: to demolish the little Hipkins hissy fits; to spark when required; to hold the bovver boys in check when it’s quite obviously counter-productive, and release them when its not; to publicly and vociferously denounce the Natz bullshit at each and every opportunity (without delay – given the 24hr spin cycle – and there have been plenty). I realise the opportunities are precious – given the state of the MSM and its predisposition – which makes that all the more important.
So far – in the scheme of things, there are better alternatives. I MIGHT (at a very very very small pinch – or should that be a large one) be persuaded to give Labour another chance. Given the record so far, and after almost a lifetime – it’s not likely in 2014.
99 to 1 – that could change – I.e. NOT Labour.
I don’t think I’m a masochist – or a martyr – right now, that’s what would be required to even consider it
I’ll accept Shearer as leader when he shows he can do the job. So far he hasn’t.
+1
Shearer has been unable to articulate the new housing policy clearing. For the last 18 months, his performances have been cringeworthy. There were those of us who were prepared to give him a chance, but with polling staying around 31%, there is no way that Shearer can lead Labour to victory.
A third term National Government simply cannot be an option.
The elephant in the room, the emperor’s new clothes.
Shearer Needs To Stand Down
Worth keeping an eye on this thread : http://johnquiggin.com/2013/07/28/oz-nz/ where Aussie economist John Quiggin is looking at the comparative performance of NZ/AUS performance post war.
http://cyprus-mail.com/2013/07/28/lenders-set-bank-of-cyprus-bail-in-at-475/
Only 47.5% this time around, phew, got away with that one didn’t they!
Got all those large pesky savers with over 100K on loan to the bank!
Would be interesting to see the stats on the accounts which were robbed!
Ah a standard morning.
Wellington getting rocked by a 5.x earthquakes and a cluster of 3.x.
Pete George using an evidence free approach to everything. Perhaps he should retrain as a jonolist? I posted that Jenny was wrong in saying Shearer said anything “angrily”. He didn’t. Having listened to the video Jenny referred to, she appears to have confused someone else intejecting with the words “not a review” with Shearer. And for the record, Pete, you really are a retarded fool if you think Jenny’s silly claims being repeated on TV3 wasn’t at the core of my post.
Jon getting spied on by the NZDF is disturbing. Particularly since it appears that the only reason for doing so is to prevent embarrassment. I have been known to have the odd beer with Jon. Offhand I cannot think of anyone less likely to want to cause soldiers harm. But he does seem tenacious about digging out dodgy shit. Definitely a journalist…
Time for coding..
The NZDF revelations are extremely disturbing. It reveals a distinct lack of understanding of democratic principles in the upper hierarchy. You can’t save democracy by undermining democracy, fellas.
Andrew Geddis covers it well.
http://pundit.co.nz/content/morale-was-deteriorating-and-it-was-all-yossarians-fault
Now we now how John Armstrong gets off – a pap piece on Simon Bridges.
To think that our politics must be reported in terms of applauding Bridges’ entirely unremarkable and boringly prosaic “elder gentleman” jibe, as though it were Churchillian.
Armstrong seems to be engaged in a wilful dumbing down. Why else right this shit as major stuff ?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/john-armstrong-on-politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=1502865&objectid=10903899
It is becoming more apparent that between them the Heralds Fifth Column of commenters are producing pieces in that particular shoddy rag, working as a tag team in the vein of Labour must do this while pimping for support for the likes of National’s Bridges and the equally as awful Jamie Lee Ross, (who has something extremely ugly lurking just beyond His frontal lobe),
Sooner or later as the fashion dictates the Herald will hide it’s on-line edition behind a pay-wall which will be a joy as i wont be tempted to read their utter sh*t Fifth Column political jonolism anymore…
and then every now and then (well maybe 3 or four times a year) they premit Brian Gould to write a short piece, just so they can say….
balance
The Herald is rapidly becoming our very own Fox News.
They wont put up a pay wall, they couldn’t stand the loss of readers.
At times I post on things maori-pakeha. It is an interest in our land, peoples, archaeology, future… As part of that, posts have been made suggesting that the classification of Maori as NZ’s sole indigenous people may well change in the near future, if it hasn’t already. The point of indigeneity moves along a sliding time scale. It brings in new arrivals, it brings a first occupier, a subsequent occupier, several types it seems. This is seen in the history of most indigenous people around the globe.
As part of that it has been suggested that pakeha will at some point be deemed indigenous, if they are not already. A little like the Afrikaner is regarded as indigenous to southern Africa. Of course this postulation is met with the typical poorly thought out “bigot” chant, “racist” chant, “hater” chant by people who only poorly think things out. More fool them.
A few days ago, apparent support for something like this position was tumbled on within the late historian Michael King’s book A Short History of NZ, written a decade or so ago. In it King refers to Maori as New Zealand’s first indigenous people. What would King mean by that? It implies more than one, obviously. It implies that there are or will be other indigenous people subsequent to Maori. I read around and around the particular piece to try to glean some more to help paint the picture but couldn’t locate much to assist… (no longer have the book so can’t reference but it was in a post-WWII chapter around what the govt was doing with the dept of native affairs I think)
Curiouser and curiouser….
‘Indigenous’, from it’s literal meaning would tend to suggest that none of us are, indigenous that is, none of us occurred here naturally as we all came from other places,
Maori with the literal translation that i have, ‘Normal’, would seem a better descriptive, your debate of course is around what a Pakeha academic has chosen to label Maori as, i doubt many Maori have or do use the term indigenous…
Your plan to get rid of the Treaty won’t work – others far more bright, well read and intelligent have tried and are trying. Why not try the honest approach and just put up your agenda instead of lurking around it – it’s pretty obvious anyway but being honest would at least give a true reference point to begin actual discussions – may I suggest a list would help.
Have to agree. Vto, yet again your comment skirts around the issues making them vague enough that it’s hard to know what your actual point is. So I’m guessing that you are referring to the people that believe various theories around pre-Maori settlers, but who unfortunately (a) don’t have any background/experience that lends their views credibility and (b) are often connected to white supremacist groups in NZ or internationally. Then you wonder why the term racist comes up so often.
btw, I’ve had discussions with people and read articles re Pakeha indigeneity that never reference the racist arguments of people like Ansell or Doutre. These conversations ask questions like what does it mean to be indigenous? What are the cultural and spiritual aspects that are associated with bein indigenous? What is the relationship between indigenous and the land? These conversations happen without any need to take anything away from Maori, and for the most part they aren’t based in Pakeha insecurity. Why are you not taking part in these conversations?
You might want to re-consider the circles you are moving in, and the kinds of material you are reading. I also hear Maori who talk with ambivalence about who was here first. If you don’t understand the reasons why they do that, or why they’re not going to engage in the debate you want, then again, you are talking to the wrong people. Until I see some attempt by you to engage with Maori on their own terms, I can only assume you are like other Pakeha that are interested in the things that support their ethnocentric view instead of being open to wider, sometimes contradictory perspectives.
Some background reading
http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2010/11/dargavilles-media-should-honour-towns.html
http://books.scoop.co.nz/2008/11/18/no-to-nazi-pseudo-history-an-open-letter/ (connections between the pre-Maori settler theorists and white supremacists).
http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2009/05/celtic-boulders-and-unbalanced.html
You are paranoid weka and see things that aren’t there. Why don’t you just answer the question put in the post instead?
What do you make of Michael King’s reference to maori being “the first indigenous people”? It is not a rocket science question.
From what I remember King believes that non-Maori can become indigenous, so when he refers to ‘first’ indigenous he is stating his belief that Maori were here ‘first’.
But I would have to see an actual quote, and in context. Maybe it’s actually an editing mistake.
What do you think he means?
Pretty much the exact same as you weka. Nothing more and nothing less. It is another piece of a very large picture about maori and pakeha place in these islands, that is all.
The reason it was posted is that the idea in King’s statement is something I have been ridiculed for expressing on here.
let the placing of the 1,000,000 piece jigsaw puzzle continue ………
“The reason it was posted is that the idea in Kingâs statement is something I have been ridiculed for expressing on here.”
[citation needed]
Anyway, I seem to remember the last time you started up on this, you referenced someone as supporting your argument, and that person turned out to be known racist and white supremacist John Ansell (and we only learned that because I searched for the audio, listened to it, and then reported back to the ts thread). So I don’t really trust you when you say you read something once. Your ability to misrepresent your argument is now well known. Am pretty sure that by the end of this round we will have demonstrated that Michael King didn’t say what you think he said, that you are misrepresenting his views, and that what you really believe is more along the lines of Doutre and co. I’m happy to be proved wrong, but you never say what you actually think, and then we find bits of the jigsaw hidden under the tablecloth or on the floor.
King as i point out above has mistakenly used the term ‘indigenous’, to be indigenous Maori or anyone else would have had to have been resident here when our little islands split off from where-ever they split off of,
So what is there to debate about King’s mistaken use of the English language…
Hi bad12, thanks for your comment there. I understand your point there but take this as being indigenous within the NZ context i.e. on the assumption that Maori are indigenous…….
Point taken VTO, but working off of an assumption that in its entirety is incorrect leaves you in danger of basing everything else upon that incorrect assumption thus reaching a wrong conclusion,
A far better description of Maori would be ‘first people’ which is entirely unambiguous, it is then easy to ‘see’ that such a first people had ‘property rights’ not just in the European sense but in far more ephemeral areas,
Obviously such property rights do not translate from the Maori into the English in their entirety which is why we still have Treaty issues,
Inherent in such issues is the Maori ”it is mine but it is not mine”, in English that term is totally ambiguous and a contradiction, for Maori hardly so…
“A far better description of Maori would be âfirst people'”
Only if you accept that Pakeha definitions trump Maori ones. If you deny Maori the right to use the term indigenous, then you exclude them from their relationship with other indigenous peoples in the world. And you make this about reductionist biological constructs instead of holitic ones. I don’t see how that helps matters.
Just as an aside – somewhere (and I’ll try and locate it from a uni history paper if I can), there is a U.N definition of the descriptor ‘Indigenous’ which not only suggests the concept of ‘first people’, but also those subjected to some sort of subsequent ‘oppression’ or adverse cultural influence (such as colonisation).
It might be a losing battle to locate however – the attic is knee deep in old notes and books and I no longer own the place.
…. ah! I note Karol’s comment below too
Here’s indigenous, occurring in a country or region naturally, at a squeeze Maori are indigenous in terms of region, originating in terms of recorded history from the Pacific region,
To use such a definition tho would be to insinuate that all Pacific people are then indigenous to New Zealand,
LOLZ, i have never heard any Maori, those in the family or from elsewhere, use the term indigenous, that does not preclude that some might of course,
A bigger LOLZ is your contention that if i deny Maori the right to use the term indigenous i deny them something, along with your lead into that concerning Pakeha definitions trumping those of Maori,
My contention that ‘first people’ is a far better description of Maori when measured against ‘indigenous’ in no way contends that Maori should never use indigenous, and my use of ‘first people’ is akin to the American Indian self description of ‘first nations people’,
If you asked my nieces and nephews whether or not they are indigenous i can assure you the reply would be one large HAH???,
Therein lies the disconnect, ‘indigenous’ is an entirely Pakeha concept, ask my lot instead how they come to ‘belong here’ and you will get a recitation of ‘whakapapa’ from the mountains to the sea, including the rivers and lakes along with the more ephemeral connection through different ancestors to various
Gods from Tane Mahuta to Tangaroa, which also may include the odd connection to a specific taniwha,
Indigenous then can come no closer in comparison than the divide between Maori and Pakeha that has always exsisted…
Well, yes. Indigenous is a European term. And originally I think it was just applied to country of birth. But it is a term adopted by indenous people – maybe more politcal than in everyday language.
As I understand it “First Nation” – also a useful term – is one coined in Canada and applied to indigenous people there.
Googled “first people” – ah the confusion of language. It seems there’s a prior usage of the term,
But also it has been claimed by colonsied people, and on at least the website of the first Peoples World Wide, is linked with the term “indigenous”.
And they have a page defining indigenous people, thus:
bad12: ask my lot instead how they come to âbelong hereâ and you will get a recitation of âwhakapapaâ from the mountains to the sea, including the rivers and lakes along with the more ephemeral connection through different ancestors to various
Gods from Tane Mahuta to Tangaroa, which also may include the odd connection to a specific taniwha,
Well, if someone asked where I belong, or where my place is, I’d go into the places my ancestors have been, and their cultural connections etc. Often it’s stuff I don’t find worth celebrating, but, it is what it is.
LOLZ, Karol, we have then come full circle in the debate from what i said in my first comment,
In Maori the closest i can come to the term ‘indigenous’ is in fact the word Maori for which i have a translation to mean ‘Normal’ and in terms of the definition of indigenous ”originating or occurring naturally in a country or region” would seem an adequate fit,
Scholars of the reo might of course be able to submit a far more definitive term of indigenous but Maori does it for me and ‘first people’ seems far more defining than indigenous for those who need some other form of descriptive other than Maori,
Lol, must be a slow day i don’t normally indulge in such wordly debates…
Hi bad,
Hereâs indigenous, occurring in a country or region naturally, at a squeeze Maori are indigenous in terms of region, originating in terms of recorded history from the Pacific region
To use such a definition tho would be to insinuate that all Pacific people are then indigenous to New Zealand,
That definition comes from biology. A different definition, with regards to people, has been in use for a long time. Sorry if you and your whanau haven’t come across that before, but it’s been used by Maori for ages, including internationally.
My contention that âfirst peopleâ is a far better description of Maori when measured against âindigenousâ in no way contends that Maori should never use indigenous, and my use of âfirst peopleâ is akin to the American Indian self description of âfirst nations peopleâ,
Except the racists use it to point out that Maori got here just a bit earlier than Pakeha and therefore don’t really have that much right to be treaty partners or call themselves tangata whenua or whatever.
Therein lies the disconnect, âindigenousâ is an entirely Pakeha concept,
Well by that argument, we can’t use the word ‘Maori’ to refer to people of Iwi decent.
ask my lot instead how they come to âbelong hereâ and you will get a recitation of âwhakapapaâ from the mountains to the sea, including the rivers and lakes along with the more ephemeral connection through different ancestors to various
Gods from Tane Mahuta to Tangaroa, which also may include the odd connection to a specific taniwha,
Ae, a fairly acceptable definition of indigenous imo.
Why do you have a need to erase colonisation and its legacy, resulting in a continuing impact on the lives of the majority of Maori, by trying to claim equal arrival and settlement status?
You are playing with words.
“Why do you have a need to erase colonisation and its legacy, resulting in a continuing impact on the lives of the majority of Maori, by trying to claim equal arrival and settlement status?”
no such need
no such claim
Really Karol, that is entirely assumption and projection on your part. Why have you done that? Why don’t you just answer the actual question about King’s point?
We can’t answer the actual question abotu King’s point, because you haven’t posted King’s point. What you’ve done is presented a version of King’s point amongst a whole bunch of other points and it’s hard to know what the fuck you mean. I feel manipulated, by you. You are setting us up to garner support for your covert views, instead of just being honest about what you think. That’s why people now call bullshit on your posts about ethnicity straightaway.
ffs give it up. Everytime. Simple questions weka, simple questions. And now it has happened again – why do you obsess about the personal? Why is every question treated as some kind of pointer to some other agenda that I don’t have? You are like that other commenter above who never ever comments on the issue and only ever on the person who makes the comment.
I recall you saying a while ago that the ‘who’ of a comment is at least as important as the comment made. I would suggest that this feature of your thinking is bananas and is what is taking you down this path of paranoia. Try concentrating on the actual issues.
Nice sidestep.
Ok, actual issue. Did Michael King say ‘first indigenous’? No idea.
Where do we go from here?
Still have no idea why you even bought this up. Are you really asking if it’s possible for Pakeha to become indigenous?
edit, and you know what? If you don’t want to discuss the meta issues around race then DON’T BRING THEM UP IN YOUR FUCKING OPENING COMMENT.
Exactly, weka.
Are you really asking if itâs possible for Pakeha to become indigenous?
Exactly, and why is this even important?
“why is this even important?”
it’s not is it
Correct – it is not important or relevant to creating a sense of place for pÄkehÄ, unless to create a sense of place, that means reducing MÄori which is what you are trying to do. Many have found their place here by accepting MÄori and accepting what happened here and accepting the way the world is now – but not you vto, you continue to try and create division and anger by pushing your views out there as if they were somehow objective and devoid of your own personal baggage – which they aren’t. Your views are aligned with ansell and 1law4all and you diminish yourself by trying to pretend otherwise. I have no problem saying that MÄori are indigenous in all the vagaries of that word, because they fulfill the definition set out by others of what indigenous means.
These type of debates, fomented by you, always follow the same trajectory yet you cannot stop yourself can you? Why? They bolster your twisted view of the world that’s why, they reinforce your preconceived ideas and strengthen your bigotry by providing evidence in your own mind of why and what you already believe. You don’t discuss or debate in good faith – you just use the good arguments of others to help you continue to see the world through a distorted lens.
“Still have no idea why you even bought this up.”
There’s that paranoia and complication thing again. Try reading the first two sentences in the post.
And perhaps you could highlight which comments in my opening post were about any other race issue other than indigeneity origins rather than yelling swear words in my face.
At times I post on things maori-pakeha. It is an interest in our land, peoples, archaeology, future⊠As part of that, posts have been made suggesting that the classification of Maori as NZâs sole indigenous people may well change in the near future, if it hasnât already. The point of indigeneity moves along a sliding time scale. It brings in new arrivals, it brings a first occupier, a subsequent occupier, several types it seems. This is seen in the history of most indigenous people around the globe.
Right there, you start muddying the waters. Because you fail to grasp the significance of the way tangata whenua were colonised.
<IAs part of that it has been suggested that pakeha will at some point be deemed indigenous, if they are not already. A little like the Afrikaner is regarded as indigenous to southern Africa.
Really? Citation needed? Because Africaner were major oppressors of the indigenous people of Africa.
And it still doesn’t answer the question why you want to claim “indigenous”‘ status, when it will largely work to blur historical memory about colonisation?
vto, if it’s not important to you, why do you keep raising issues around it?
PS: and why don’t you mention anything about colonisation in your opening comment?
First two sentences:
At times I post on things maori-pakeha. It is an interest in our land, peoples, archaeology, future⊠As part of that, posts have been made suggesting that the classification of Maori as NZâs sole indigenous people may well change in the near future, if it hasnât already.
All I can tell from that is this:
1. you post on things Maori-Pakeha from time to time
2. someone (we don’t know who) has suggested on ts that other-than-Maori will soon be designated indigenous (but we don’t know who, by who, or how).
What did you want to happen next?
Did you read the link I gave about Ani Mikaere’s view on Pakeha and being indigenous?
Meta issue (and manipulation set up):
Of course this postulation is met with the typical poorly thought out âbigotâ chant, âracistâ chant, âhaterâ chant by people who only poorly think things out. More fool them.
Perfect example weka. You see things that are not there.
Fuck off vto. That’s a classic example of you making an assertion about something but leaving it to the mind readers amongst us to know what you are talking about.
edit: Actually, doubly fuck off, because even when I do respond to the actual main issue you raise, when I take the trouble to do so, you simply ignore that and go for the surrounding meta argument. I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion that you have no genuine interest in the topic, you simply raise the issue here so you can indulge your confirmation bias that everyone who disagrees with you basic premises on race are paranoid hate mongers.
fuck off yourself weka. You see things that don’t exist (see comment just below where I have tried to simplify things).
The issue described was around previous comment on here that rubbished claims that it may be possible for pakeha to be seen as indigenous. Michael King provided some further ballast. But you seem to think that it is a Trojan horse for all sorts of other matters.
Further, your claim that I somehow ask tricky questions that expose commenters true positions – if that were actually true then so fucking what? Some people are very deceptive and hide their true colours. Sometimes they don’t even realise they are bigots or racists or sexists or someotherists.
Freudian slip there vto
“Some people are very deceptive and hide their true colours. Sometimes they donât even realise they are bigots or racists or sexists or someotherists.”
THAT IS YOU!
If you just accepted it then an actual discussion could be had because the true parameters would be set – meanwhile you continue to dance on the hotplate – aren’t your feet getting fucken hot by now – FFS be honest at least with yourself and the mirror – you are not fooling anyone else.
“Further, your claim that I somehow ask tricky questions that expose commenters true positions â if that were actually true then so fucking what? ”
Except that you never do ANYTHING other than make assertions. Who is a bigot and why? If you can’t answer that then it’s all hot air and diversion.
eg you just said I’m seeing things that aren’t there. I don’t know what you are referring to, because my comment contained a number of points. You’ve had two comments to say what you are referring to, but you’ve chosen not to. It wouldn’t be that hard to be specific, so I can only assume you either have poor communication skills and don’t know what I mean, or you have another agenda. Each time this happens, you leave other people in the position of either guessing what you mean (and then you get all defensive), or just not responding (in which case you get to say shit without being called on it). It’s starting to look like quie a sophisticated means of tr0lling.
“Except that you never do ANYTHING other than make assertions”
If you look closely weka you will see that both the original post of mine and the rehash were framed entirely by a question to posters about King’s intentions with those words. A question. In both. Not an assertion.
Probably most have had a guts-full of the topic by now, but for those who want to proceed on the basis of an actual quote to refer to, here is one to be going on with:
“In that same year (1946) New Zealand still possessed a Department of ‘Native’ Affairs, whose function it was to assist the country’s first indigenous people and, by organising the development, lease and sale of their land, contribute to what almost all New Zealanders believed were the ‘best race relations in the world’.” (p.413 Ch25 The Penguin History Of New Zealand 2003)
For what it’s worth I’m with B12 on this. It’s a non-issue. Indigenous is the wrong word to use in this context and I thought most “indigenous” people these days avoid this distraction by using the term “first peoples” ??
Agree clockie, I think most have had a gutsful too. And thanks for the quote, that was the one.
Thanks Clockie, looks like an editorial misjudgement rather than King making a statement about anything.
“For what itâs worth Iâm with B12 on this. Itâs a non-issue. Indigenous is the wrong word to use in this context and I thought most âindigenousâ people these days avoid this distraction by using the term âfirst peoplesâ ??”
On that basis Maori should be excluded from the UN’s Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Sorry, but we can’t just wipe out a whole bunch of things because some people think the word indigenous should only used in its biological sense (I assume that is the objection here).
editorial misjudgement? how so?
I’d need to see the context, but the way it reads would suggest that either the Dept of Native Affairs or King believe that the indigenous people were first. Is that a term that the DNA would have used? If not and its King’s choice of words, it seems odd to use them when discussing something from the 1940s. If neither, it’s a redundancy and should have been edited.
Well I suspect they are King’s words and not the Dept of native Affairs from the 1940s. But bear in mind King was discussing this in the 1990s/2000s and not the 1940s, hence the use of his words “New Zealand’s first indigenous people”, when such terms were more widely understood.
And further, I know historians are very careful with their selection of words. It would be interesting to see if King has discussed this issue elsewhere.
+1 to everything weka has said, and props to weka for having the fortitude to illuminate vto’s flamebaiting bullshit for newcomers.
nothing more could be expected from you qob, queen of bigots.
No. it looks exactly like what you are doing – trying to erase the status of tangata whenua – the significance of that status is strongly linked to colonisation and its impact. So an attempt to claim indigeneity for Pakeha looks like an attempt to erase all that, or at least muddy the water.
If you are looking for something to name a Pakeha place of belonging, it is in the word “Pakeha”. It is in our forbears’ history. That history includes colonisation – for some of us serial colonisation – Ireland, etc.
You see Karol “looks like….” is intensely subjective isn’t it. That is your problem – too subjective.
Please point out where I tried to do those things you charged me with in the original post above. For your own credibility of course.
karol
Now you know – your problem is that you are too subjective? Sigh.
Maybe, vto. But, it’s because you are putting a lot of stress on claiming the word “indigenous” for Pakeha NZers. Indigenous is a word in recent times that colonised people have claimed as part of their articulation of the legacy of colonisation.
Any attempt for people of European or other non-Maori lineage to claim indigenous status looks to me to be erasing the importance of the word “indigenous” to colonised people.
So, you may say it is “subjective”. To me it is a matter of logical deduction.
Why do you think it is so important to be able to claim indigenous status? Why not look for a word that is unique to Pakeha experience? Why not just stick with “Pakeha”?
Unfortunately this is what happens in these discussions with vto. Instead of addressing the issues you raise they will post something about what is wrong with you.
I have said before – it is part of a search of pakeha’s place here. Don’t know where that search will end up.
Is there something wrong with that? It may well be that the current status of Maori is affected in that search. It may be completely unaffected. It may be that the term pakeha is enough, as you say. Other factors may arise in the future affecting the question.
One thing is sure – all such questions are met with heavy resistance. The current frame around this debate in NZ is stiff and unrelenting. It is like the frame has been built to not bend or allow for future flex. Such a frame will not bend of course – it will simply break, or be ignored….
The left should welcome these debates, as difficult as they are to conduct, because it is a defining issue for many people not of the left when it comes to voting patterns.
Communication communication communication
“the current status of Maori”
In what possible ways?
“One thing is sure â all such questions are met with heavy resistance.”
Complete and utter bullshit. Such questions from you are met with challenges to racism. If you can address those issues, then the topic itself will be discussed. Like I said, I’ve had this conversation with people and we never had to get bogged down in all this other shit.
A big hurdle for you now vto is to demonstrate that you are not aligning yourself with the likes of Doutre and Ansell, or if you are just be honest about it. It’s not hard to clarify and I really think these conversations would go better if you did. You’ve identified with Ansell’s views in the past, so it’s not unreasonable to think that that is where you are coming from (even if you aren’t as extreme as he is).
Get off the grass weka, I have never identified with Ansell or whoever the other prick is.
Let me try again from the start ………
“In the past I have suggested that indigenous people in NZ at some point may include pakeha. This has been dismissed out of hand by some commentators here, notably marty mars. In the weekend while reading Michael King’s recent history of NZ, it was noticed that he referred to Maori as NZ’s first indigenous people, implying that there are or may be in the future, further indigenous people. What say thee?”
Now heaven forbid that you can find anything else in there other than what I am trying to say, but give it a crack…..
weka, if you’re around – did you see this rehash? I have tried to lay it out as clearly as I can with the least number of possible misunderstandings, double entendres, alternative meanings, lost or hidden agendas or anything else that might get in the way of understanding what I was trying to say.
I have said before â it is part of a search of pakehaâs place here. Donât know where that search will end up.
Is there something wrong with that?
No nothing wrong with looking for a sense of place. I do that myself in researching and learning about history. But in doing that I see no need to claim “indigeneity”. A sense of place is as much as in where we (and our forebears) have been – its in the journey as much as in the destination.
As I have said before “indigenous” and indigeneity” is now most commonly used as a way of articulating the experience of, and responding to colonisation. And, for the most simple explanation of this, it’s in the wikip definitions, taken from the UN definitions.
My bold.
Now a search for a sense of place can be done in many ways.
Why do you need to bring in the word “indigenous” to explain Pakeha sense of place.
And to me “place” is as much about cultural and historical place, and places traveled to and from, the travelling as much of the destination.
Why do you think the word “indigenous” should be one applied to Pakeha? Because, the impact of naming Pakeha as indigenous, will negate the aspect of Maori history and legacy that is in bold above – as I have said. The result will be a denial of colonisation and a muddying of the waters.
Karol, I was not saying it needs to be, I am investigating whether it could be. And there is no need for such a position to negate anything historic or muddy any waters.
If the result is that pakeha are seen as indigenous (less the recent colonisation aspect) then there will need to be some honesty in facing up to it. If not then so be it, on we go, honestly and squarely facing the future.
The focus on “indigenous” here is because it is one of manyplaces to conduct that search for place. That is all. There is no ulterior motive.
This investigation you are doing – have you read or referenced any MÄori writers? And if so, can you put those references here – I’d love to read them. And if not, why not?
Just another small point, the colonisation aspect continues to this day albeit under different guises or perhaps disguises is the better word.
vto, if Pakeha are to eventually becomes indigenous, it’s not something that can just be decided and applied. It would be a long process that would evolve over generations. It’s not a policy to be implemented. When you talk about it, it sounds like you think it is just something that can happen now if we want it to.
Personally, I believe that what we currently call Pakeha could become indigenous. I don’t see it happening any time soon because I see one of the core tenets of being indigenous is the relationship of the collective with the land. Pakeha have a long way to go before they will let themselves be part of the land as a culture. Which is a shame because we still have our indigenous roots with us from the UK and Europe and it could merge very well with what is already here (I don’t know how this works for non-Caucasians).
Having said that I don’t generally support discussion of Pakeha becoming indigenous with people who don’t fully accept the treaty and are who aren’t working towards decolonisation. For a start, it’s extremely rude to expect Maori to listen to such conversations when the dominating culture can’t even afford them basic protections form racism, let alone address grievances. Then there is the matter of the very large ignorance about Te Ao Maori by Pakeha. How can we have this conversation when we don’t even understand how Maori are indigenous?
I also find that the conversations tend to go badly amongst people who are not settled in their own Pakeha identities. I feel very comfortable in mine most of the time, even when I feel challenged by issues raised by Maori, but I don’t see most Pakeha being like that. Many Pakeha get thrown by the issues raised by Maori and then seek to redefine themselves in relation to that. That is understandable, but it is something we need to get past.
I also agree with Karol, why do we even need to have this conversation at this time? I know who I am, I know about my place in the world, and my relationship to tangata whenua is always developing and doesn’t undermine my sense of self. So I don’t understand the need to talk about us becoming indigenous in the context of how that will redefine Maori. When you say that Maori may be redefined I smell a kiore.
I would also be interested to know who from Maoridom you have been reading. But who in general you are reading if you’ve never come across the name Martin Doutre. If you’re not reading the likes of him, it may help clear the air here for you to link to what you are reading (or talking with).
As an aside, here are the links to the last argy bargy, where you referenced something said by Ansell.
I’m willing to accept your word if you say that you don’t support Ansell’s premises, but I’d like to see you refuting them when they come up in these discussions.
weka, just seen this comment here. Thanks for the feedback.
I see this, as I say, as something that is about a search for place. It is not a need, it is a curiousity. Well in many ways it is a need – a need for a people recently displaced or tossed out or seeking escape from persecution or oppression to find their feet again. To feel comfortable that their home is their home. I think that is lacking in some ways today. Pakeha don’t feel fully accepted here at times I think. Pakeha still get told to ‘go home’ sometimes.
Our own whanau (the majority ‘wing’) arrived with a full blown culture in place. One fully indigenous to its own previous land. That culture and that community has since been added to by other peoples and subjected to the vagaries of a new raw nation at the end of the world already occupied by another full blown people. It has taken time for pakeha to find their feet again.
It is not something which is decided on by vote of course. It is most definitely something that develops over time. In my opinion that is happening though. It is also a question (pakeha’s place in aotearoa) which is near solely for pakeha to determine, and only in a very limited way a question for Maori input. Our place is described by our attachment to a place, how that has come t be, sheer timeframes, uniqueness, and other factors, but imo the main describer is ‘our’ sense of it. It stems from us and we must answer it.
…. Some hastily penned further thoughts requiring enhancement and sharpening …….
“It is also a question (pakehaâs place in aotearoa) which is near solely for pakeha to determine, and only in a very limited way a question for Maori input. Our place is described by our attachment to a place, how that has come t be, sheer timeframes, uniqueness, and other factors, but imo the main describer is âourâ sense of it. It stems from us and we must answer it.”
So nice you are allowing yourself all that vto, almost brings tears to my eyes. If you read some of the comments from some above you will see that it is actually easy to have a sense of place here, a sense of belonging and a sense of peace within your heart about who you are and the home you live in – but that can’t happen when you ignore MÄori and their place in and on this land. It is about working together not replacing – it is about respect and allowing, it is about acceptance and truth. No doubt your research and journey will continue, as it must, until you get one of the basics sorted – the answers are right in front of you if you choose to open your eyes.
I’m sorry this is hard for you vto. I appreciate your latest comment, there is a lot there, complexity, and I don’t feel I can do justice to a reply tonight (been a challenging day today). I think what you have written is worth exploring and is something I’d like to respond to at another time. When you write about things more personally like this it is easier to see what the issues actually are. Thanks.
I have also been curious about a sense of place. I’ve read a lot of research and analysis of it, usually in the realm of “new geography” – an approach to geography that developed in the late 20th century. Basically understanding place is more than just about where a section of society/community/ethnic group has lived.
And there’s ways of understanding one’s place in the world, without trying to ignore the history of racial difference – a human construct with material impacts on lives, where some are dominant and others marginalised.
Some new geographers deal with “race” and place, without erasing the history of racial oppression and marginalisation. It means understanding the historical legacy of Pakeha in colonising Aotearoa.
Some in other countries look at understanding whiteness. RRichard Dyer’s “White” is a classic – about the way whiteness is both dominant and ignored, or rendered invisible.
I have particularly liked the work of Nigel Thrift on place and geography, which also includes the various ways people’s sense of place is influenced by class and other social positions.
And Doreen Massey on gender, culture, globalisation and place.
And agree with marty mars: thinking about one’s place in the world can’t be done without thinking about others and their place and the relationships between us all.
@ vto I agree this is an important topic
I do believe that Pakeha NZers are different from Europeans….one only needs to go overseas to realise this. …And I also believe that Pakeha who have been here for generations have very deep feelings for the land and do have the right to a special sort of standing in New Zealand…..From what I can remember Michael King wrote a lot of Maori history and then when Maori wanted to write their own history and told him to go away he was very hurt…..so Michael King went in search of his own Pakeha identity. “Being Pakeha Now” could have been the title of his book.
I personally know of NZers with absolutely no Maori blood who are imbued with Maori culture and understanding and live alongside Maori ….so much so you would almost think they were a Maori in a Pakeha skin ( maybe they have been reincarnated.. ha ha)…
Also I once met a Maori with long blond hair and blue eyes at university who had a Maori name and said he was Maori…when I thought he was joking he spoke to me in Maori and told me his Mother was Dutch and his Father a Maori….
And this is the case of many NZers. You would be hard pushed to find a “pure” genetic Maori .Also many Pakeha whose families have lived in NZ for generations (eg ancestry British whalers who married Maori women) have some Maori blood…..
I also know of Maori who look Maori but you would think they had the mind set of a European Capitalist ( ha ha)
To complicate this even further some new immigrants adopt everything in NZ culture -, Maori language , culture , tramping , mountaineering , fishing , rugby , sport and beer drinking with such an enthusiasm that they are almost more Maori or Pakeha than the indigenous NZers.!!!!…All to the good … I guess in the end what is important is respect.
PS: Credibility?
We all bring subjectivity to any issue. I try toown mine, vto, partly in the language I use. It’s actually part of examining something objectively and rationally, by making the subjective an explicit object of scrutiny.
All I see in your comments is disavowal of your own subjectivity under claims of total objectivity.
I’ve spent a lot of my life learning about colonisation and its impacts – read widely on it (and written on it as part of courses). And I’ve also spent a lot of my time reading “sub texts” – underlying meanings. Part of such readings includes identifying what is not said – always an important indicator.
Congrats Karol @ 6.3.1.2……….famously well said !
For my part the “specialness” of Maori is not to be unilaterally deprived of Maori, ever.
Yes well North, if you read closely you will notice that Karol’s statement there was her own assumption and nothing to do with my question around King’s reference.
But mustn’t let such realities interfere with our own biases and assumptions eh.
@ vto
Go somewhere quiet and talk to the land …again and again…. it will give you the answers you seek…King did this at the end of his book “Being Pakeha Now” ….This same land has talked to farmers, gardeners, hunters, sailors, mountaineers , trampers, artists and poets…..in the end it is the land that tells you whether you belong and are indigenous. ….it requires silence and reverence.
Chooky, don’t you worry about that I do heaps of it. It is inferred at my comment above at 7.18. I spend more time alone and on in the land that probably 99% of people. Alone, remote, nothing but land sea sky….. It is possibly one of the reasons this subject is excessively raised by me.
@vto OK ….well and good….Well I don’t see the point in arguing about it…..
….The issue really is whether one lives in harmony with the land and cherishes it and derives spiritual sustenance from it….this is the acid test as to whether one is indigenous or not …
…..Or whether one is one of the ‘NEW VULGARIANS’….an exploiter and
de-sacrilizer of the land , an over- populater , a barbarian speculator , a dirty polluter…whose God is materialism and consumerism and profit….and to HELL with the natural environment.
I don’t like Mike Williams as a ‘Spokesperson For Labour’. This morning he put a size 20 foot in his mouth by commenting on policy on housing purchase dampening with negative comments because it will have an immediate increase effect before Labour can be elected in 2014.
Then on top of bad mouthing positive efforts to help this complex difficult problem, felt worldwide, he then increases the fault by referring to Chinese speculators. First that sounds anti-Asian, second he has not referred to the stats on this which show definite peaks for certain western countries, and third he continues his white-anting of the left. Get him out of the media, he can be assessed as 80/20 in his value to the left, with the 80 being against.
Unfortunately Labour don’t appear to measure their value to the left, let alone care about it.
weka
Interesting way of putting it!
Further to my comment above already I have heard John Bank’s whiny little voice castigating the comment about Chinese as if it had been spoken by the Labour leader. Get Mike Williams off Radionz – deny his right to say anything for the left, publicly disagree with him, present him as a turncoat. And do it now. He is bad news for Labour.
And of course on political comment this a.m. Mike Williams hasn’t much to say about reporting on defence force activity and trying to claim everything as being ‘subversive’. He has said something against the surveillance state. Franks is frankly speaking just himself. You know what to expect from him.
Great. Mike Williams makes judgments on Labour’s housing policy based on his own experiences in his area of town – eg being gazumped by an overseas buyer when trying to buy a home, price of rents in his area, etc.
I tried a while ago RoseT. Unfortunately to no avail. It’s been “from the Right [substitute Mike W, Jose P, etc], and from the Right [substitute Mathew H, Steven F, etc]” for quite some time now.
Mike Williams is increasingly using the “I’m in agreement with you [Mathew, Steven]” kaka.
Maybe spending too much time with Paul Henry or fawning over his friendship with Holmes.
. “There’s an avenue for him [Mr Humayun] to go to the police if the guy refused to pay the fare. But in terms of racial abuse, the threshold is very high.”
Susan Devoy. The friend in court of the rednecks. He sounds determined to stop racial abusers getting convicted. Dies she have a clue what her job brief is?
I suggest that the punishment now being inflicted on the bigot is worse for him and better for improving race relations than a conviction would be.
Convicting people for what they think is a dangerous path to start going down.
you can think whatever you like, but you don’t have a right to say whatever you want, wherever you please.
there is large difference between thought and speech (for most anyway)
but you donât have a right to say whatever you want, wherever you please.
You sure?
100%. I suggest you go to your local airport and scuttle about making jokes about bombs.
do try it.
Oh. Did the guy do that?
Is that your comeback? Lame.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10904714
Next the apologist will be saying booze made him do it.
The U$ was and is where the implementation of Neoliberalism started. It is the garbage ideology that Yankey continues to follow. What is the result? A once great Nation because of the New deal is now on the point of collapse economically and socially with an immense privatised prison gulag, a corrupt finacial class in bed with a corrupt government, a corporate fascist state in reality and yet our crazy politicos still buy into the American Nightmare, including NSA style spying on kiwis who have contrary political opinions and activists. Why is the U$ so influential? Mainly because it has a huge military presence which we gratefully hide behind to put off China becoming the regional leader in the Pacific and to help us if Asia’s huge numbers decide to invade us.
The American Nightmare Yankey is pushing us to with stripping minimal income rights from the poorest Kiwis and further privatisation:
“The United States of… Class War, Inequality, and Poverty
New survey data shows perilous state of US economy and suffering of a majority underclass”
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/07/28-1
“It’s time that America comes to understand that many of the nation’s biggest disparities, from education and life expectancy to poverty, are increasingly due to economic class position.”
“There is no class war. The 99% is in complete and abject submission to the 1% through the phony (D) vs. (R) bullshit paradigm. The working class has been corralled for shearing by the Democratic Party, which is simply a flavor of the Plutocracy Party which runs the United States.
Obama and most of the Democrats are merely reflections of this reality. The fact that the Plutocracy could get Americans to overcome their racism in the election of an African American Plutocracy Candidate is a testament to the success of the (D) vs. (R) propaganda meme.
The working class cannot fight back until it is able to have a voice – and giving it a voice is the thing that the Plutocrats fear most: Hence, billions are spent maintaining the absurd Kabuki illusion that there are two parties in the United States.
It is time to wake up and reject the false D/R bullshit and cast off the self-fulfilling fear that only the Plutocracy Party’s candidates are “electable”.
There will be no change in the status quo until the Democratic Party – the primary tool of the Plutocracy to keep the working class in line – is dis-empowered and left bereft of its national power.”
This.
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/07/28/ap-poll-4-in-5-us-adults-struggle-with-poverty-joblessness/
And this
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2013/07/20130710_santelli.jpg
Is the Wizard of Oz just a shyster in a cloud of green smoke – is he an Aussie is he, is he, Is he an Aussie is he eh? (Old comedy song)
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon
Radio nz this a.m.
Oz- Kiwis falling through the cracks in Australia (â16âČâ39âłâ)
09:30 With Maree O’Halloran – the official spokesperson for the National Welfare
Rights Network (NWRN) and the Director of Sydney’s Welfare Rights Centre. Duncan Sandilands – Founder of the Fair Go 4 All campaign.
and
Concept of operationshttp://www.fairgo4all.com/concept/
Further
http://www.fairgo4all.com/phil-goff-continues/
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/214673/campaign-for-fair-go-in-australia
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10888229
Auckland-born student Diana Drysdale became a military cadet at 13, and has only ever wanted to be in the airforce.
But the 15-year-old, who lives near Brisbane, will not be able to fulfil that dream in her adopted home of Australia because her family will never qualify as residents….
The Australian law change was designed to stop backdoor migration from the Pacific Islands and Hong Kong Chinese, who gained New Zealand residency to settle in Australia. Mrs Drysdale believed that the effect it had on military recruitment was unintentional and undesirable.
“The military recruitment people here say they can’t believe it either. They get applications every week from Kiwis wanting to join. It is crazy.”
Mr Sandilands, 53, served as a territorial soldier for seven years. His frustration with being excluded from the ADF was deepened by his family’s rich Australian history – his great-grandfather was Lord Mayor of Melbourne and his grandfather fought with Australian troops at Gallipoli.
(It is surprising that the strongest claim we have for having equal rights in Australia and being treated with the respect of an allied neighbouring country with diplomatic and economic treaties and as we extend most of the rights to Oz residents, is through wanting to serve in their armed forces. Life sure is queer.)
I’ve often wondered when a NZ gubbamint of whatever flavour is going to ask the Australians when they intend putting the NZ back in ANZAC. At the moment it’s only pulled out on ANZAC day mornings.
The last tune-ty, John Key was too busy sucking up to Joolya and looking for foto-ops so he can reflect on all those hoi pear people in his scrap book after he fucks off into the Hawaiian wilderness.
Tim
And it has been shown from journalists queries on Anzac Day that many young people don’t know that it stands for the combined forces of our two countries. It’s just a word that they don’t connect with NZ at all.
The Key Government’s plan for us:
http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2013/07/28/the-spirit-of-the-workhouse-is-alive-and-well-in-tory-britain/#comments
A brilliant insight into the reasons for current social policy towards beneficiaries.
@ Johnm
Great link
I question your use of the word ‘social’ policy though, ‘antisocial’ would be a more accurate term. đŻ
Anyone else see this?
Prime Minister John Key, speaking to ONE News deputy political editor Jessica Mutch in South Korea, says heâs is prepared to compromise with NZ First leader Winston Peters to get further support for his GCSB Bill in Parliament.
âI wouldnât rule that out. What Iâve said is that thereâll be the SOP process, so a Supplementary Order Paper. So when the bill comes back to Parliament, itâll have its second reading. Then what happens from there is the committee stage. At the committee stage, we already know a list of things that Peter Dunne will introduce. Now, in a theoretical world, if NZ First or any other political party – letâs take NZ First – came along and said, âWe will support the legislation if you make these changes,â and they were acceptable to the government, there is always that window of opportunity to make that change,â Mr Key says.
Mr Key told the Q+A programme that his office had approached Mr Peters on numerous occasions, âoffering to sit down with me, the officials, in writing. Weâve put all of those sorts of requests there,â but when asked if the lack of response meant it was unlikely the two could work something out, Key says: ânever say neverâ.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1307/S00346/prime-minister-not-ruling-out-further-changes-to-gcsb-bill.htm
So, Key is crawling to Peters now?
i am pretty sure that i have seen Winston Peters on my TV directly saying that the Slippery little Shyster has not contacted NZFirst on any changes that party would want in exchange for supporting that legislation,
If that is the case, Slippery’s latest is simply Him using the media, and i should put an emphasis on the word ‘using’, to be the Slippery little Shyster we all know Him to be…
I wonder whether NatKey are courting Peters for opposite reasons than they are presenting: In order to discourage people to vote for NZF?
He might be an option against National; and therefore if people are making that choice against voting for NZF and find out there is a chance Peters would team up with National; then perhaps less support, under 5% returned and bingo! Kingmaker no more. Back to Act & co
Leopard……..I see the picture……..scary as it “oligarchy” is.
No doubt Mine [email protected] and DungCan Gooner will have something rivetingly profound to offer the homogenous listener/viewer.
Part of me feels it’s all played as a shitty game. First and second paragraph. A game of self advancement
Not to overstate it they are fucking round with the nation’s psyche. Our values, our democracy.
@ North
Glad you ‘got’ what I was wondering, because I see I made an error in my comment, which makes it a little hard to understand! (The second time I wrote ‘NZF’, it should have read ‘National’).
They really are fucking around with the nation’s psyche, our values and our democracy. ~ Well said
Leopard, i will take the Slippery little Shysters new found ‘trust’ in Winston Peters and NZFirst on face value, that face value being that even with the ‘Hairdo’ and the ‘Crim’ one small % of vote loss on the 2011 election result and the Shyster will be Slipping right on out of here,
Add to that no Maori Party in the next Parliament,(all gone-burger), and where have the Rats got left to run,
The only possible way i can see that National and it’s head used car salesman can Govern after November 2014 is with the help of NZFirst,(if they can get 5% of the vote)…
The moral case for science and innovation policy
Science and innovation are good for society and thus we should do it. Forget the financials, society is about more than just making a profit.
This is interesting.
Radionz on Windows on the World which started at 8.20 pm and I don’t know how long it goes has something to say to us. If you can’t hear it on Radionz and I think they don’t have audio rights then you can I think get it by going direct to BBC.
They are talking about Kenya where there is 40% unemployment. Yet there is a vital economy developing. As ours becomes more moribund and the government finds new ways of stripping the poor and poorish of tax while the fat cats put theirs on Cloud Nine or somewhere, this might help communities to avoid going bankrupt as in USA.
A firm in Kenya, and there are Kenyan, Chinese, Connecticut and Danish nationals interviewed also, has developed a way of making payments or accessing money through an ordinary mobile phone. It seems that you buy a credit at one of their offices which is like charging your cellphone. Then you have virtual money wherever you go and that cuts out theft. If you are caught short at a remote location I think they said that you can get a small loan immediately. They have found the system works well.
This may be necessary for this country if the banks are going to screw us. These fancy-pancy new aids to nil balances from these super sensitive money-fly cards are apparently being foisted on us. The Kenyan idea would be a good alternative to having to carry lots of cash if they are going to reform the eftpos and credit card systems against our best interests.
This type of vitality might indicate that areas like this are worth shifting to, as NZ appears to have reached the downward slope of the bell curve and is determined to keep going forward, in that downward direction. Australia is not attractive under their present divisive policies, Oz on one side and us on the other. Might be worth while learning Swahili!
good reason for leaving the car at home as often as possible. An article says research shows NZ cities are as polluted as bigger cities overseas.
Become a special surveillance operative in Operation Goose. A unique protest against the GCSB Bill. Them spying on us, us spying one them.
Enlist here.
http://www.facebook.com/events/486194154796447/
Robbie Kaiviti.
New Zealand People’s Mandate Party.