I think it’s praise North. Not praise for his politics of course but praise for Cunliffe’s style and the strong belief he has in himself. I think he sees a bit of himself in Cunliffe . Both speak their minds regardless of the consequences, and they’re not afraid to be a bit mongrel if they think the occasion is deserving of it. Neither suffer fools gladly – something they both have in common with Helen Clark. đ
As the Nats see the writing on the wall expect the screaming mantra from the right that Labour/Greens will be a “far-left” governement to get ever louder. Shonkey has already used this label many times – it’s a cheap trick, without substance, to scare the voter.
To neutralise this the left should be taking ownership of the language. Cunliffe and the left could say something along the lines of
If by “far left” you mean a government that would implement a living wage for all, maintain ownership of our assets, create a fairer tax system and support a world-class public health and education system etc. etc….. then we will indeed be all of those things.
I call that a decent, progressive, social democratic government. The current government is none of those things but this is what we will be and what this country desperately needs
Each time the “far-left” lable is used simply roll out the above or similar and it will show up Shonkey’s increasingly desperate “name-calling” for what it is.
I’m sure there will be standardistas out there with some snappier language that neutalises that “far-left” label. Any ideas?
Well today Colin Espiner referred to the latest polls in lab-Green favour labeling it as a possible centre eft government. Following that he refers to Key’s attempt to discredit a potential minority “far left” Labour government, using quote marks around the term. he goes on to discount the “minority” government argument and makes no comment on the <i."far left" tag.
I thing Key’s smear attempt is already looking like empty rhetoric.
Yes, the line from Key that NZ wouldn’t tolerate the party with the least seats forming a government is a desperate attempt to set tone.
The country overwhelmingly voted to keep mmp, and I’m sure accept that the game is now left v right.
Both comments may be very valid but let’s make sure we know it’s not just left V’s right, it’s far left and centre right. Despite the dribble above, you are going to need to get used to it.
Even though I disagree with the nat party spin about far left, from the center outwards in both directions it’s left v right.
It’s all encompassing, but they’re the voting blocks in NZ under mmp.
Human rights abuses? Check.
Enacting legislation that is fundamentally at odds with the rule of law? Check.
Anti worker legislation? Check.
Dubious “medical” interventions. Check.
Sale of legislation? Check.
“Centre right” governments don’t do any of the above. Right wing trash where conservatives used to be.
This government is radical-right not centre-right. This is clearly coming through now with the desperate sales of assets against all rational economic thought and against what the country wants.
The Nats have never been centre. Farrar used to refer approvingly to this: http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2011
(and claimed he was in the region of +10, – 4), but that has disappeared from his site as it diverged from official spin.
(There graph for Australia 2013 is telling as well – Labour there is similar to United Future here according to their chart.)
As are you DumbArse to the exponentially vivid and resonant caricature of a PM having to “play away” in search of adulation. Not forgetting that in doing so he’s looking increasingly naff. “Mr 62%…….” doesn’t cut it anymore. What’s worse, the vaunted cargo has ended up in the hands of a very few in the cult who defame and blame those who believed but missed out.
Never mind DumbArse…….Judge Judy’s looking for a cheer team. You can top up with Kool Aid there.
As ShonKey Python’s star wanes the pejorative soundbite “far left” depends for legs on –
1. Explanation of its meaning, failing which,
2. Uncritical acceptance based on extant trust.
Well, (1) explaining is losing (apparently), and (2) “smile and wave” no longer wins trust.
For my part I actually love hearing ShonKey Python use it. If he continues with it he risks falling victim to the superbly intelligible real life based responses suggested by Steve @ 2 above.
Both Cunliffe and Norman are eminently capable of delivering those responses, and better. What would ShonKey Python have left ? Fawning at Balmoral and making like the big boy at the UN ? Not good enough. Both episodes run so close to embarrassing.
It would be a far left government. The current Government is a left wing government. So with the policies announced by Silent T and the Red Melons, what else can we call it?
If you want to maintain more NZ ownership of assets start saving more. Labour Green policies will do the opposite.
We have a world class and fair, highly progressive tax system. It is the envy of the world.
Given our GDP we have a world class health system.
Our education system is great for 80% of kids. For the other 20% it is a problem. What is your solution? Don’t say “spend more money” The 5th Labour Government did that for zero – thats right – zero return.
If you have anything else on your list let me know.
Flicking through the Sunday Star times on Press Display:
Op Ed section: PPTA respond to Colin Espiner on Charter Schools.
Espiner meanwhile, weighs up the fact that Labour is now back in the fight, though things can always turn against them.
He frames his analysis saying that bad things often happen when PMs are out of the country, and while Key was overseas being called a colonial clot, throwing up, speaking to the UN etc, voters back home had more mundane things on their minds, like low wages, cost of housing, lack of decent jobs, and Americas Cup.
Andrea Vance has an article headlined “Interference over river smells bad” – But she then proceeds to explain why this is not a big problem for old Nick who, while having a dodgy record, has just been a bit over enthusiastic.
âIn its announcement the Government makes much of the fact that it consulted with experts to craft this policy. The feedback we provided was ignored, and the result is the Funded Family Care payment is a dogâs breakfast. Itâs not nice, itâs not right, and it wonât work,â
Hmmm…. Reading through the scheme is like watching money flow down a drain â into the pockets of gate-keepers, and held back from the very people for whom the scheme is meant to exist. I see a lot of job creation for anyone but the person who is after the funding; it is a maddening read.
Iâll give them this much: They do, at one point, acknowledge how complex and extensive the scheme is:
âThe requirements of the FFC arrangement are quite extensive and complex and understanding the obligations and responsibilities of being an employer in this arrangement can be quite daunting.â
Health Minister Tony Ryall said the Funded Family Care notice published today sets out the eligibility criteria and conditions for how disabled adults were to be allocated their share of $92 million in Government funding to employ family carers, who will be paid $13.75 an hour to look after them.
âThe notice clearly outlines the roles and responsibilities of the disabled person, the family member providing care, Needs Assessment and Service Coordination (NASC) organisations and the Ministry of Health,â Ryall said…
… âIf disabled people would like a family member to be their paid carer, they should read the notice and accompanying operational policy on the ministry website, and then contact their local NASC to be assessed.ââ
If disabled people would âlikeâ to be cared for by a family member?
All disabled people are fully aware of their ‘roles and responsibilities’?
All disabled people can read a notice and operational policy?
All disabled people can contact pick up a phone / log on to the internet / get down the road to contact their local NASC?
So if disabled people canât do one or more of these things they cannot be assessed? Why does Mr Ryall think theyâre being cared for? Lifestyle choice?
Carers, who can help disabled people do some of these things, or do them for them, are once again invisible to NAct in this press release.
Surely the contracting arrangement should be between the carer and the government through the health system, not between the dis/abled family members?
The maddening thing is that many disabled people also have medical needs that a person at $13.75 per hour is at a 99% likely hood not trained to recognize.
Now, there is something every family with a disabled person should take note off: In case of negligence, physical or medically they should sue the government for negligence of care by intention (as the new legislation clearly is if one follows the outline).
Tort:
Negligence
The key elements of negligence
Negligence is the failure to exercise reasonable care to avoid reasonably foreseeable damage to people or property. There are four elements:
The defendant must owe the plaintiff a duty of care.
The defendant must have breached this duty of care.
The plaintiff must have suffered damage that was caused by the defendantâs breach of duty.
The damage suffered must have been a reasonably foreseeable consequence.
Breaching the duty of care
In a negligence case, the test for whether the defendant breached a duty of care is whether the defendant did something or failed to do something that a âreasonable personâ would not have done or omitted to do.
The degree of care required depends on the circumstances. It varies according to the degree of risk involved, the consequences of the breach, and the standard of care that the defendant has undertaken to exercise
I belief this applies in the way the legislation is outlined.
@Stever. Completely! Until ‘P’ came along – I’ve always believed that decriminalosation was the way to go – with the amount of money spent on enforcement redirected into rehab.
‘P’ presented a different problem with brain fries, paranoia and violence along with it.
Having mulled it over, decriminalisation and adequate rehab is definately the way to go – even with ‘P’. The ‘war on drugs’ is never going to be won without finding a way to cempletely take the value out of ‘illicit drugs.
They spend tens of thousands (or used to) putting bloody helicopters in the air to spot and destroy crops FFS!. Enough to pay a few counsellors salaries anyway.
I’m not suggesting ‘loss leader smack’ in the local supermarket, but finding ways of addicts being able to access safe supplies and without resorting to criminal activity to fund their habits seems like its worth investigating at the very least.
The thing with ‘P’ is it’s highly addictive nature, right up there in terms of addiction with Heroin and Tobacco,
The violence was removed from Heroin use to a large extent by the Methadone Program as much of that violence was associated with the lengths those addicted would go to to find the resources to feed their addiction,
My view is that the ‘P’ addiction should be addressed by the same means and in my dreams i see us as a country catching up with the state of Colorado in the US which has flouted Federal Law and enacted the legalization of marijuana and as yet i have not read of any overt anti-societal effects from them having done so…
There are still a few problems – even WITH the Methadone Programme.
It just seems to me that every step taken with outlawing ‘illicit drugs’ has actually worsened the problems.
We banned the Chinese from Opium. Next we had heroin …. so they class ‘A’d’ it and went to extreme lengths to prevent importation (somewhat successfully). Up popped ‘Homebake’ – far worse than the heroin it replaced. Then up popped ‘P’.
The Methadone Programme does its best – but its under-resourced and there is an element that stuffs it up for the genuine as you may be aware = that’s aside from expecting it to be a solution to ‘P’ addicts. You’ll probably know that there are a number who rely on ‘diversion’ of at least a portion of their daily dose in order to survive financially.
Oh, and there’s sometimes another problem with the programme in that it’s sometime run by power-trippers and those treating patients like kids. Admittedly they face constant conning, but unfortunately all patients then have to face the same treatment.
Rehab programmes haven’t been anywhere NEAR adequate in this country for quite some time. There always seems to be enough money though for enforcement …. relatively speaking anyway – and it’s NOT working.
Having had a brother that more than dabbled for most of his life – its hard not to think what could have been – under a different regime
Yeah of course there are problems with the ‘Done program’, the biggest would seem to be the assumption that people can be weaned off the Heroin addiction by them being put on the program and then having them weaned off of even that,
Back in the 70’s i knew of doctors and lawyers who enjoyed their Heroin but of course they could afford the product so their addictions were not obvious,
Rehab might work but i have never met a Heroin user that has done so and completely kicked their use so it would seem that the best means of society to ;treat’ those with addictions is to provide them with a suitable maintainance dose of whatever they are addicted to at cost…
we may have known the same doctors and lawyers bad – one or two now in very prominent positions. I find it somewhat amusing at times the judgmental attitudes towards my brother in their stereotyping – right up until they become aware that his first contact with it all was as a border at Christ’s College.
It is way past time though that this whole ‘war on drugs’ was re-evaluated – it ain’t bloody working! – and nor will it – even if we just look at recent history.
i have never met a Heroin user that has done so and completely kicked their use
I have. More than one. I’ll say no more (to avoid mentioning individuals), except that it is a terrible drug, but heroin addicts, like alcoholics, can turn their lives completely around.
I know several ex heroin addicts who completely stopped. I used narcotics for 18 years and stopped in 1997. It is possible, but the legal bullshit surrounding drugs makes it far harder than it needs to be.
In fact, many states in the USA have taken steps to decriminalise or partially decriminalise marijuana. Marijuana for medical use is permitted in several states, for example, as is personal possession of up to 1 oz.
It seems that our Police Force is still adamant that sellers of marijuana must be locked up and the public given a lecture via the MSM by the Dick leading the witch-hunt about the ‘evils’ of the drug, as happened in Wellington not so long ago.
Closer to home – South Australia – simple minimal amount possession/use of cannabis – nothing stiffer than an infringement notice more or less. That was certainly the case 10-15 years ago.
Also recall years ago hearing a retiring senior drug squad detective stoutly maintaining that controlled legal supply of heroin to those afflicted would do away overnight with 60% of the violent standovers and convenience store robberies in the Kings Cross area. Someone might have links. Here’s one related –
I note that Red Alert has yet to acknowledge there is a new leader of the Labour Party – two weeks after the fact.
Clare Curran is currently running a “Right to know” list of posts concentrating on OIA requests to selected ministers. There may be some good material in them, but blowed if I’m going to wade through the myriad of stuff and judging by the lack of comments no-one else is either.
I guess she’s using the site to re-establish her relevance. If she’s had an epiphany moment we’ll know soon enough.
In fact, Red Alert has had no posts from anyone BUT Curran since the leadership debate.
And the lack of comments just highlights one of the reasons she was always a terrible ICT/Open Government spokesperson – if you’re not in the blogosphere you won’t comment anyway, if you are you don’t want her to dox your info and threaten you with party censure.
“..ed:..i could bang on about how wood and mutch doing a weekly roundup remind me so much of a shopping-channel presentation..
..i cd bang on about the blatant product-placement from edwards-the-younger..(i mean..why doesnât he just hang a fucken âfor-saleâ sign around his kneck..
..i could bang on about how distasteful it is that an ex-act mp..and now a paid pimp/lobbyist for big-pharma..
..is deemed to be a panelist whose word should be listened to..
..i cd bang on about how wood and mutch on john key sound like they are selling/promoting the latest kitchen-whizz gadget..their enthusiasms are both bubbling and relentless..
..i cd note how the third panelist..the editor of metro..spent the whole time looking like he was thinking..
..âw.t.f. am i doing here..?..with these hideous people..?â.”
I read it twice and still failed to see which Govt or political party was failing to pay the workers. All I could see was a “Mister Clean Laundry and Cleaning Services” was obviously a dodgy employer. The more you stretch it the more likely it is to whack your arse when it breaks.
That isn’t how it works. The money from the illegal enterprise – in this case slave labour but it could just as easily be drug money or human trafficking – gets paid to a trust, let’s call it the Waitemata Trust, which then funnels money to a political party, let’s call it The National Party, and then the corrupt politicians enact legislation to order.
If the money can be laundered through a casino first, well then, even better.
One for ‘the Alien anti-smoking Nazi’, just for the hell of it on a slow Sunday,
YES, i agree with you 1/2 of those who use tobacco products will die of some form of Cancer or Heart disease,
However, such figures are in actual fact actual Bullshit, as 1/2 of those who do not and have never smoked will also die of Heart Disease or some form of Cancer,
40% of deaths annually in New Zealand are caused by heart disease,
The total for deaths in both categories is 69.4% of deaths annually, take out the 20% of tobacco users from the statistics and pray tell me what got the other 49.4% NOT smoking perhaps,
SO, repeatedly saying that 50% of those who use tobacco products will die of cancer or heart disease while true becomes totally FALSE when you then attach the use of tobacco products to those deaths completely disregarding the FACTS that 49.4% of those who do not use tobacco products will also die of those same diseases…
Yes you are right. So what? You can’t use a washing machine, you live in a State house (laughing over the back fence), but you are a stats guru. Congrats. Don’t tell me you are a smoker too?
Right SSLands, we have established the fact that you don’t want to buy me, as per new National Party policy a brand spanking NEW washing machine,
That leaves you only my brand spanking NEW, as per new National Party policy, Fridge/Freezer to cough up for,
I am totally chuffed that YOU are going to be paying for this new appliance for me as dictated by Paula and Bill from Dipton,
Ha ha ha, excuse my mirth, but can you advise whether you will be paying for the agreed appliance to have left-ward or right-ish opening doors, Ha ha ha…
“I am totally chuffed that YOU are going to be paying for this new appliance for me”
Aren’t whiteware purchases still an advance on benefits and thus repayable?
If so, you’ll still be paying out of your weekly allowance, even at just five or ten dollars a week, just not getting charged interest.
And I chose not to have a washing machine for environmental reasons and go to the laundrette down the road instead.
The closing paragraph of this little gem of a comment from you is why i suspect you to be suffering from some form of congenital brain dysfunction,
Well the whole comment actually more or less proves there is something majorly wrong deep inside you nut,
What possible enviromental gain can there be by doing your washing at the laundromat down the street,
Think a little deeper about your comment on who pays for such whiteware should i take up the National Governments offer of ‘new’ whiteware for beneficiaries, if you take into consideration SSLands previous comments of Him being one of the few actual taxpayers in the economy you might possibly develop some small understanding of why i continue to ‘tease’ it over the subject, on more than one level…
“The closing paragraph of this little gem of a comment from you is why i suspect you to be suffering from some form of congenital brain dysfunction”
Consequently, your reply had me thinking the same thing, except I was inclined to use what a dullard or dimbo.
“What possible enviromental gain can there be by doing your washing at the laundromat down the street”
You mean like the real and material associated cost of manufacture and delivery of one less appliance to me etc, and by using and thus keeping in business a community facility that by remaining open stops hundreds of other people who don’t own machines from doing so or washing their clothes in a river.
I’m gonna call dullard đ
“you might possibly develop some small understanding”
Boasting about being a dole leech isn’t wise, even on a left wing site, even if to piss off right wingers.
If I were you I’d show some humility and not bring it up again, but then you may have a lot less pride than most, so do what you will.
OK so you are on the dole, live in a state house (laughing over the back fence), you smoke, you don’t (or can’t) use a washing machine. So your only hope for survival is to cheer for Silent-T and pray for other peoples money to come your way.
Honestly, one can’t make this up. Like Ouroboros, the snake that eats itself, srylands is the tory who presents the most extreme parody of tory ignorance, making satire redundant.
“Silent-t” Hee hee, he said “vagina”! Giggle, snicker, snort! Poo, wees, bottoms! Ha ha!
“Yes, exactly what i picked you for, a right wing loony masquerading as a lefty”
Yeah, nah, as the natives say. đ
“Think a little deeper about your comment on who pays for such whiteware should i take up the National Governments offer of ânewâ whiteware for beneficiaries, if you take into consideration SSLands previous comments of Him being one of the few actual taxpayers in the economy you might possibly develop some small understanding of why i continue to âteaseâ it over the subject, on more than one level⊔
ps
But the answer about the washing machine, laundrette and environmental concerns, was that okay? ‘Cause you seemed to have ignored it and just gone into insult mode… Again đ
Now take care, mate, and remember you can’t fu*k with a fu*ker without getting a little fu*ed up.
A small brained chimp such as you giving every appearance of being does not to any extent ‘f**k me up’,
There is tho a danger that as i laugh at your denial of the simple fact that 50% of those who do not smoke will die of cancers and heart disease i take another puff,
Man laughing at you and smoking are definitely bad for my health…
You know I’m bang on the money, you just won’t ever bring yourself to admit it. Just think of those kids in poverty you’re willfully stealing from with every puff. I know I couldn’t do it, what with having a conscience and all.
From here on, I predict you’ll just get very personal and much more abusive than you already are at every turn, so save the readers (those poor readers) the effort and either ignore my comments from now on, or let it all out in one super fu*k you post and get it off your chest (no pun intended) (well, maybe a bit) once and for all. đ
You don’t like ‘Him’, ok ok no need to shout, from now on you pus filled scab on the rump of society i will refer to you as ‘IT’,
Seriously tho SSLands, whats it like to run round thinking all beneficiaries are bludgers and voting National to ‘fix em’ only to have Paula and Bill from Dipton come up with a brand new plan to buy beneficiaries brand spanking new white ware,
Lolz go Paula way to spend SSLands tax dollars and give IT even more brain damage…
I’m not sure having to borrow more to purchase a new appliance is beneficial for all when quality second hand goods are available at cheaper prices, but if you’re not bothered about having a fiver deducted each week from your allowance for a much longer period, then all good.
I would prefer to be more in control of my finances and not be forced into a higher level of debt. Some families will struggle severely because of this forced policy.
You really are that THICK aren’t you Alien, you give the appearance of having half a brain but in reality deep down you are simply THICK,
i have already told you that i am using the new National Government policy that beneficiaries will now buy new white ware through WINZ as a small stick with which to poke the equally as THICK as you SSLands,
For your information, i have a perfectly good fridge/freezer and washing machine, they were ‘bought’ through WINZ under the old scheme 7 years ago and i see no need to replace them,
At the time i purchased the 2nd hand appliances through WINZ i repayed 13 dollars a week in total, as yet i havn’t met anyone that has bought through WINZ new appliances so i do not know the repayment costs but should imagine they would be pretty similar,
Christ i cannot imagine what it is like in the empty cavern of your dead head, i almost feel sorry for you…
“i have already told you that i am using the new National Government policy that beneficiaries will now buy new white ware through WINZ as a small stick with which to poke the equally as THICK as you SSLands,”
And I have already said you should be boasting about being a dole leech.
Where’s your issue, seeing that’s what you’re doing, by admission, even if just to bait a right winger?
Seriously, given how you’ve been laid bare, you need a better line of attack than mental, brain ache and thicko, but I know you won’t get ‘it’, so I just đ
“And I chose not to have a washing machine for environmental reasons and go to the laundrette down the road instead”
That’s fucking different eh! Laundrettes don’t use the environment.
“You mean like the real and material associated cost of manufacture and delivery of one less appliance to me etc, and by using and thus keeping in business a community facility that by remaining open stops hundreds of other people who donât own machines from doing so or washing their clothes in a river.”
Just like people who don’t own cars but use busses and trains.
For you I will call fu*k nugget. đ
Of course they do, nugget, but much much less so than making an extra 300 washing machines would for the people that use the laundry, so like people taking busses and trains is more beneficial to environment than owning or running their own cars, so is using a laundrette.
Lolz that heroic actor says it saves hundreds of people washing their clothes in the river, shouldn’t be too hard on it, there seems something very amiss upstairs with that one…
It basic common sense, and you don’t get it, so I must be the mental đ
Me personally not owning a washer has a real environmental saving in materials and associated costs.
Patronising a laundrette keeps it open, which if closed would mean all the people who use it wouldn’t be able to, and unless they washed their clothes in the river, many would get their own appliances, adding to the overall environmental costing.
I usually walk, because if you remember I wrote it was only down the road, but like your non point over smoker/non smoker deaths, those that drive there will still have their cars, yet now they’d have washing machines as well, with all the environmental costs incurred along the way to manufacture and get them inside their homes.
The human body’s a chemical motor attached to legs instead of wheels. That’s why your heart rate increases when you exercise.
Ever wonder where an awful lot of fertilizer comes from?
“The human bodyâs a chemical motor attached to legs instead of wheels. Thatâs why your heart rate increases when you exercise.”
And you’re on an adult’ish’ website for grown ups, posting that my walking is a bad thing for the environment, or something, when smoking isn’t a bad thing despite all the money needed to treat smokers đ đ đ
I haven’t got the patience other posters have for sh*t like that, but really do see the humour.
As dark as the tar in the lungs of the stupid.
What about all the money spent keeping non-smokers alive?
Have fun spending my pension if I die early. Call it my gift to society.
Edit: it’s not the issues we care about that define us (look at sithlands claiming they try to increase welfare for people). It’s whether we choose to stop analysing the problem if the answers begin to displease us.
“What about all the money spent keeping non-smokers alive?”
You mean the ones who don’t play 50/50 with their lives, that have to struggle to get adequate healthcare through lack of funding? Got so much time for those poor fu*kers, it puts backers of smokers to shame.
“Have fun spending my pension if I die early. Call it my gift to society.”
As you say, no knowing if you wouldn’t have died early anyway, but I’m hoping you’d go quick, not only for the financial savings over and above possible pension payments, but because it’s a horrible way to go and a sad waste of human life.
The real gift, if you’ve procreated, will be, that your offspring are a tad more intelligent when it comes to self preservation v short term high.
Fingers and toes crossed for all concerned.
“Edit: itâs not the issues we care about that define us (look at sithlands claiming they try to increase welfare for people). Itâs whether we choose to stop analysing the problem if the answers begin to displease us.”
I’m not sure even you know what that means, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt for a change.
âWhat about all the money spent keeping non-smokers alive?â
You mean the ones who donât play 50/50 with their lives, that have to struggle to get adequate healthcare through lack of funding? Got so much time for those poor fu*kers, it puts backers of smokers to shame.
If more of ’em smoked, by your logic there’s be more money for healthcare, what with the pension savings and all. Selfish bastards.
âHave fun spending my pension if I die early. Call it my gift to society.â
As you say, no knowing if you wouldnât have died early anyway, but Iâm hoping youâd go quick, not only for the financial savings over and above possible pension payments, but because itâs a horrible way to go and a sad waste of human life.
So is dementia.
The real gift, if youâve procreated, will be, that your offspring are a tad more intelligent when it comes to self preservation v short term high.
Fingers and toes crossed for all concerned.
Quality vs quantity. I don’t judge nonsmokers, but they love to judge me.
“saying that 50% of those who use tobacco products will die of cancer or heart disease while true becomes totally FALSE” đ
Doesn’t affect the argument if non smokers die of cancer, heart disease and strokes, because if the money spent on treating smokers, and the cost to the country above and beyond the revenue garnered from the tobacco industry, wasn’t wasted on deliberate, slow suicide and was spent elsewhere, child poverty in NZ could be eradicated in an instant.
You can call me a nazi all you like, mate, even though I’m on record stating I don’t care if you (or anyone else) smoke, but as a tax paying smoker you’d still be an $800m+ burden on society, as a grow your own non tax payer, double dipping with free health care to boot, you’re a leech, a hypocrite and an enemy of the poor.
It really is this simple. Your free will to smoke costs others their lives through inadequate funding in the health service and keeps kiwi families, our kiwi children in poverty.
If you can puff on a ciggie while knowing this, then words much stronger than wilfully ignorant and nazi spring to my mind.
Yes good boy/girl Alien, dance upon the head of that pin for me, what i particularly liked in yesterday’s ranting from you was your grand piece of National Socialism where the naughty smokers dropping off the mortal coil early were skipping out early on being productive little robots,
You obviously tho have a head of a thickness unbeknown to humans until this point in their history,
If no-one ever picked up a cigarette in their lives the statistics say that 69.4% of them will still be killed every year by Heart disease or Cancers full stop,
Of course in the real world people do use tobacco products but seeing as the same amount of them would have contracted and died of those cancers and heart diseases whether they used or not there is in fact no extra cost over and above what the 49.4% of non-tobacco users who also die by exactly the same route cost the health budget and economy,
Simply put you Alien, have the same chances as a non-smoker of contracting and dying of heart disease or cancer as i, a smoker do,no more no less,the cost of any treatment and any further cost to the economy would be the same if we both got snuffed by that route,
The difference, those using tobacco products pay a far higher % of tax than you do…
Smoking these days is a reliable marker for low education levels, welfare dependency, State house tenants, and general stupidity. As an employer I refuse to employ smokers. Also try getting a date.
As an employer, what a joke, you spend your day as the flunky to a little firm of tax lawyers counting other peoples money,
Getting a date??? lolz how old are you 90 or something,
Now back to the new fridge/freezer you are buying me courtesy of the new rules from your dear old National Party,
Silver or white??? and you still havn’t chosen the left or right handed door opening, speed it up you slow lazy sod, i have a WINZ appointment in the morning…
Lolz, speechless, SSland’s drivel is slowly choked off to a dribble by the small fact that it is the National Party that ‘IT’ voted for that is supplying beneficiaries brand new fridges and washing machines courtesy of poor old SSLand’s tax dollars,
Lolz, the Chinese manufacturers are producing nice single cab utes for the bargain basement price of 17 grand each, i have been busily lobbying Bill from Dipton to put them on the Bene’s shopping list as well…
More typical left rudeness. It is “srylands” not “SSlands” – and again more left vileness by referring to people as inanimate objects. Stalinist. Your behaviour and general manners are just shocking. Sadly for a large rabble of ill educated state housing tenants this is what New Zealand has come down to. Smoking, rude parasites. Plus they vote đ đ
I can assure you that any lobbying you did on Bill would go straight in the trash.
Horrible horrible man. You smoke, pay no tax, get a free house. It is scandalous. Typifies everything that is wrong with the country. Oh, the humanity.
I have devoted my life to formulating policies to increase welfare, especially for the poor. I am insulted that you can state something so obviously wrong and disparaging.
dude, we neither know nor care who you think you are in real life.
Pretty much everything you propose here would end up increasing poverty and hardship were it applied, probably because you have no idea about the economy of people in NZ. If that’s what you propose in real life, quite frankly your self-description is delusional.
“I can assure you that any lobbying you did on Bill would go straight in the trash.”
Now we know. You are a minimum wage temp in Double Dipton’s office. That explains everything. As for the name, SSlands seems appropriate, even though you would probably have never passed the physical. SAlands with the fat Ernst Rohm is probably more appropriate, but you might think it was a reference to your AWB comrades.
Srylands – I take it you completely reject Big Tobacco’s spurious shit about inalienable property rights as they fight plain packaging of tobacco products ?
Why do I assume so ? On the basis of your own words dear Srylands. Smokers must be discouraged. Any measure calculated to discourage them and concomitants, viz. “low education levels, welfare dependency, State house tenants, and general stupidity” must of course be encouraged. Even property rights must give way to this imperative.
Dear Srylands, if you do not positively support plain packaging and to hell with Big Tobacco then your own words make you the john who uses the prostitute then witheringly abuses her as a slut.
“As an employer…….”. Hahaha. I suspect your reality is that of the pathological delusionist locked downstairs in an Upstairs Downstairs Edwardian nightmare. Your incessant shrieking calculated to release you, to expunge your primal shame and your conviction of personal inadequacy.
But I only suspect as to that sorry state. I do however know, I just know you’re not the full quid. Again, on the basis of your own fool words Srylands.
I’ve called you out, as a smoker who doesn’t pay taxes, for what you are. No wonder you’re getting aggro, given how you like playing the left wing, voice of the common man hero on here.
What’s quite clear is that you will sacrifice others for your own gain. Last time I looked that wasn’t really a socialist trait. Shame on you, ‘comrade’.
Cost directly attributed to smoking in NZ $1.75b
All that cash could and should be spent on the needy and much more deserving, which it currently isn’t because of people like you.
Left wing smokers who go on about their principles, I shit ’em. đ đ
Fact remains it “doesnât affect the argument if non smokers die of cancer, heart disease and strokes, because if the money spent on treating smokers, and the cost to the country above and beyond the revenue garnered from the tobacco industry, wasnât wasted on deliberate, slow suicide and was spent elsewhere, child poverty in NZ could be eradicated in an instant.”
Aah the anti smoking Nazi bites back, your first paragraph, got any proof of this ‘playing the hero’ seems your congenital brain damage is worsening the more you comment,
Oh and your costs, what a load of shit, dreamed up as propaganda by your fellow ‘anti-smoking nazis over at smokefree, what they call esitmates, your false claims are then that taxation of tobacco doesn’t cover these ‘estimates’ of costs which from you is even stupider as you are operating off of 2006 figures,(like the retard you are),
You cannot escape the facts, they are in the statistics i provided in comment 9, it is irrelevant whether a person smokes or not 50% of those who smoke will die of heart disease and cancers, and 50% of those who DO NOT smoke will also die of cancers and heart disease…
I’ve laid out my case, my opposition, if you like, to your apparent selfishness, greed, pig ignorance.
Sure, you may get a few fellow smokers back your stance, and lets face it, that can be one of the only reason why you’re continuing the insult assault – To reclaim social standing after being exposed as a bit of a left wing fraud. If it were a popularity contest I’d be fu*ked before I started, but it’s not, it’s about fact, so I’m happy to let it stand in the archives and let others judge for themselves.
That’s just your twisted interpretation. What I said was YOU shouldn’t boast about being a dole leech, even on a left wing site, even if to piss off right wingers.
Absolutely nothing about the unemployed, in general, implied or otherwise. I have been on a benefit, and am always in total solidarity with those who through no fault of their own can’t find work.
Disingenuous of you, but not totally unexpected given your history đ
Smokers stink, are more likely than non smokers to be uneducated and left wing, to be unemployed and live in state houses. The only good thing about smoking is that it is a reliable marker for people to avoid. Seriously, smokers should not be permitted to vote unless they pay at least $50,000 in income tax annually. Stupid unemployed smokers are such a drain on society they should have zero say in deciding on who governs us.
SSLands never mind whatever’s eating in to what little remains of your sanity, it’s of no real interest to me and possibly anyone else what wing-nuts like you ‘think’,
Concentrate for a moment, the fridge/freezer you are buying me, silver or white???…
But! Those smokers (and I’m not one ) pay more taxes than you do.
Here’s an example :-: Stop all smoking, drinking (alcohol) and driving your car :-: for one week and this country is crippled.
If they want to smoke, that’s there choice.
Oh fuck Srylands…….abuse and defame all and sundry…….and stuff those snotty little bastards who should never’ve been born………the kids of the undeserving poor……..all that’s fine……..but please please…….no manners at all……….no no……..that’s just disgusting !
It really is this simple. Your free will to smoke costs others their lives through inadequate funding in the health service and keeps kiwi families, our kiwi children in poverty.
I haven’t read such sanctimonious sermonising since being thrown out of Catholic School. The only reason poverty and child poverty exists in this country is because of government policy and not because smokers exist.
Smokers are no more a burden on the health system than the elderly, or children, or the obese, or rugby players. We all collectively pay for a health system that delivers to us the treatment that we require – when we require it. Your type of reasoning is judgemental and discriminatory and worthy of Paula Bennett herself – and she is no friend to the poor.
“Smokers are no more a burden on the health system than the elderly, or children, or the obese, or rugby players. ”
Like old people can chose not to be old đ
Check those figures, love. I didn’t make them up.
“The only reason poverty and child poverty exists in this country is because of government policy and not because smokers exist.”
And if there were extra millions in the kitty not being spent on self inflicted diseases, then the job becomes even easier, and much harder for nat governments to say they can’t afford it.
Do you smoke? Or is it just a bit of a sympathy bark?
And if there were extra millions in the kitty not being spent on self inflicted diseases, then the job becomes even easier, and much harder for nat governments to say they canât afford it.
You fundamentally misunderstand the nats. They’d cut taxes even lower to maintain the deficit and TINA argument.
No, that’s not what the figures say, especially for the late middle aged smokers that don’t die for a while . Details on the site in the links above. đ
ah, so “links above” means “posted sometime previously, and that’s my pretence at evidence”.
The fact is that you figure only adds up if we assume all non-smokers die quickly with no palliative care or assisted living, and if we refuse to count unpaid pensions. And that’s just to come close. More ASH lies, as far as I’m concerned.
EDIT: Oh shit – you weren’t referring to the link to here, were you:
The tangible costs of smoking to New Zealand in 2005 were around NZ$1.7 billion, or about 1.1 percent of Gross Domestic Product. This includes costs incurred because of lost production due to early death, lost production due to smoking-caused illness, and smoking-related health-care costs.
Yep, the assumption that non-smokers don’t get sick, and ignoring pension payments saved. And no sources to back it up. What a load of shit.
“ah, so âlinks aboveâ means âposted sometime previously, and thatâs my pretence at evidenceâ.”
If that’s how you chose to interpret, but it could just as easily be ‘I posted them this morning in the other thread and since I haven’t revisited it since, and made lots of replies here in todays topic, incorrectly assumed they were in this thread by mistake’
I wouldn’t sweat over it. It’s not like I’ve been caught out telling lies or even being passive aggressive or anything đ
“The fact is that you figure only adds up if we assume all non-smokers die quickly with no palliative care or assisted living, and if we refuse to count unpaid pensions. And thatâs just to come close. More ASH lies, as far as I’m concerned.”
It wasn’t ash I don’t think, but longer illnesses would only mean smokers can’t work and contribute tax and receive more health care and treatments, so I don’t know if that backs up your point or not. đ
“EDIT: Oh shit â you werenât referring to the link to here, were you:”
I wouldnât sweat over it. Itâs not like Iâve been caught out telling lies or even being passive aggressive or anything đ
That makes two of us, then. Some days I think some people confuse “passive aggressive” with “open contempt”, but don’t want to say so outright.
but longer illnesses would only mean smokers canât work and contribute tax and receive more health care and treatments, so I donât know if that backs up your point or not. đ
Length of illness would affect treatment costs, but the “can’t work” only affects those of working age. The real stumbling block is the pensions – assuming that one in two smokers don’t collect 12 or 15 years of pensions, there’s your claimed loss right there.
Thereâs a whole heap of them, that is one, yes.)
An oft-repeated number without a source is still without a source. Care to argue that pensions don’t count in the calculation? Or the suggestion that failing to account for non-smokers’ care is questionable math?
“That makes two of us, then. Some days I think some people confuse âpassive aggressiveâ with âopen contemptâ, but donât want to say so outright.”
No worries here, mate, ’cause you probably already know I think you’re mostly full of sh*t and how I’m not afraid to post what I think for fear of upsetting cliques.
Peer pressure also causes heart disease, probably. đ
“Length of illness would affect treatment costs, but the âcanât workâ only affects those of working age. The real stumbling block is the pensions â assuming that one in two smokers donât collect 12 or 15 years of pensions, thereâs your claimed loss right there.”
The clever bods have done the math and they say the cost to NZ through smoking is $1.75b. If you can link otherwise, go ahead and we’ll battle by accredited proxy, but until then it’s just your theory about retirement age v no doubt peer reviewed documents.
At this time I have to remind you about arse pulling facts and figures đ
“An oft-repeated number without a source is still without a source”
The documents I’ve linked to have sources at the bottom of the pages. From memory they include – Ministry of Health and World Health Organization among others.
Yep, I’m not exactly worked up about the issue, just kicking shit about. You say the links to costs have references, I can’t see them though. I suspect that what’s happened is that someone spitballed a guesstimate and it’s done the circuit ever since.
By your own arguments, the $1.7bil doesn’t include the $800-1bil in excise paid back, so it’s at best gross costs, not net incl revenue and savings. So unless you can drag up the source document, rather than a parrot, it still looks to me like smoking is, economically-speaking, a public service.
“So unless you can drag up the source document, rather than a parrot, it still looks to me like smoking is, economically-speaking, a public service.”
Nope, I’m going to bed because I’ve got work tomorrow.
I’m happy with my side of the debate and can’t see any credible argument put forward in opposition. My term of phrase has sometimes been provocative, but then not half as bad, and certainly much less insulting and nasty in tone as that directed my way. Some people it would seem have little comprehension of the arguments involved, some people do, but don’t want to accept it for what it means to their world view. That sadly is part of life, and is a reason why smokers, despite all the evidence, still cling on to their packets and pouches.
I’m not going to check this topic again, so if there’s any last words needed to be said by anyone, don’t post them here, I won’t see them. It will be a hollow victory, pyrrhic if you will. Best save it ’til next time you see me post elsewhere and spam an insult or barb my way. I’ll know what it’s about.
I have never smoked but that is beside the point. I come from a health background having worked many years both in tertiary and community based services.
Statistics can throw up all sorts or justifications to discriminate against people. I could pull statistics out of my non-obese arse to equally justify my stance. The greatest burden on the health system into the future is an aging population with its corresponding health requirements. We spend more money on aged care in comparison to childcare and it is not a health cost that is controllable under present policies. Superannuation is also a massive burden to the Welfare System.
But rather than follow your example and place a burden of shame onto the elderly for living well past their use by date, I would say, that as a country we have a duty of care to provide for all New Zealanders in their time of health need, regardless of how old, how fat, how sporty, how disabled, or how wheezy they might be.
The alternative is a health system that provides for no one as the economic argument is systemically used to deny more people access based on lifestyle choices – to have babies, to not have babies, to drink, to not drink, to play sport, to not play sport. Then again, a health system without clients / consumers / patients is very efficient economically.
An economic justification does not necessarily infer the right argument. Child poverty exists in this country because of successive Government policies. Child poverty disproportionally impacts on MÄori and Pasifika children and until Governments come to a true understanding behind that realisation than poverty will continue in this country.
Yeah yeah, already said we should care for smokers because we care, even for the divs who slowly kill themselves going against all medical advice because of their belligerence and weak wills.
Of course child poverty exists because of policy, and I’ve not argued that. What is it that makes some of you guys and gals see something written and think that must be the only reason or cause a person has to offer?
I’m not arguing that smoking cause poverty, well, unless in those households where kids go hungry but the adults puff away where it is indeed a factor, but do think money not spent on smoker illness could and would be better spent elsewhere. Where is the contention with that?
After NZ is smoke free, which it will be sooner rather than later, the country will be much better off not just health wise, but financially. Can’t come soon enough.
âAfter NZ is smoke free, which it will be sooner rather than later, the country will be much better off not just health wise, but financially. Canât come soon enough.â
2012 to 2013. $1.2 billion (1.197) aged care costs for residential care and home based care ( Cost of giving elderly daily assistance and accommodation.) Of this $269 million on home support services ($48 million more than in 2008/09) and DHBs purchased over 10 million hours of home support.
Currently 32,000 residents in aged residential care at a cost of $928 million for 2012/2013 year.
Dementia ( age related senility affecting most- smoker or non-smoker) -$44 million in Budget 2011 and $40 million in Budget 2012. And over the next four years another $12 million to be added. Budget 2013 included $1.2 million for dementia-related training for health care workers and $2 million for dementia awareness programmes and to help primary care professionals detect dementia early. NZ Aged Care Association conference 2013. J. Goodhew
The $1.2 billion excludes the medical health care costs for aged, âdisabilityâ subsidies of the aged and for those at home, added to the cost is their full pension entitlement along with the relevant subsidies/ supplements to an individualâs entitlements from WINZ e.gs. lawn mowing, accommodation supplement for those in rentals or mortgaged, dental costs, hardship grants. Projected is also that given there will be increasing numbers of elderly able to live at home, these at home assistance/subsidy costs will rise significantly-
So given the âboomâ babies are starting to impact on State costs for being aged, take this last yearâs annual costing of $ 1.2 billion for daily in home assistance and residential care alone what will the projections be for State costs in 20 years ? ( Include the % of 650,000 current smokers who give up under Smokefree targets).
Two thirds of NZ adults are obese- health costs (medical alone) are analysed in 2012 as being between 2% to nearly 8% of NZâs total State health spending. The health care costs included spending on GP visits, drugs, hospital care, laboratory tests, allied health care (such as podiatrists) and aged residential care. The percentage of the health $$$ spending is variable because of the range of health issues, medical conditions potentially aligned to obesity. E.g. costs of premature babies in NICU units as research unfolds how some premature births are being attributable to obesity.
Directly related to obesity Medical care in 2006 was estimated at $624 million. Loss of productivity is estimated at up to $250 million per annum.( Current figures to come as research unfolds more diseases related to obesity). Figures of costs do not include other costs such as Disability and Sickness Benefit for the reasons of obesity.
More recently estimated in NZ, costs for medical care are 4.4 % of total health budget for obesity. -Australian and New Zealand Journal of Public Health. Professor Boyd Swinburn. Dec 2012.
All cancers ( smokers and non-smokers) 2% of health spending. Diagnosing and treating cancer is set to increase more than 20 per cent by 2021. (technology and medicine, screening developments). Breast cancer, colorectal cancer and cancers of the lymph and blood, including leukaemia in that order costing the most from the health dollars for cancer. “Population growth and aging are the main reasons that the cost of cancer treatment is increasing” (http://www.moh.govt.nz/moh.nsf/indexmh/the-price-of-cancer MOH)
So if you donât smoke( smoking rates are declining) and donât become obese( obesity rates increasing), and not a mortal casualty of alcohol related deaths and nothing else but old age gets you ( over 65 and demographic population increasing of over 85 year olds),you too can be a puritan who sermonizes smokers from your electric lazyboy until your last breath is drawn (fresh breath of course and if age related senility lets you..) and by 2031 cost the State shit loads out of the health budget.
And woe is us….. whilst we are languishing in our aged care homes sucking on the health dollar instead of a cigarette for pleasure (because thereâs F*all else other than pureed dinners and talking to aliens) there will still be poor children!
P.S. Oh….And whilst I finish this night on stay over with the 95 year old mother-in-law and carry out her medical and body cares, ( lost productivity from my job this year with her and also from death of non-smoking sister from breast cancer at aged 49) your ” Canât come soon enough!” is in my mind, so very SMUG.
“Have whatever the F* your fun is people while you can, being very old will come soon enough!”
Hi TA, I neither smoke nor drink but have to say that in NZ the rate of smoking is negligible whereas the rate of drunkenness and hard drug taking (p etc) is at an enormous proportion. It is widely understood that the effects of too much alcohol will be presented in an insurmountable health bill. But that’s OK, cos its part of the culture, isn’t it? So for those who have a dozed stubbies every day in front of the TV with some take outs heavy on salt and fat its all good!
And as an employer I would be more worried of the unseen effects of the drink and drugs on the brain 8 hours later being in action at my business then a worker relieving their stress with a cigarette.
The social cost of drink must be huge. I’m happy to side with you in your crusade against problem drinkers. The numbers must be huge by comparison to smokers. You should post them for all to see.
edit. You have, further down the page. Good onya. Shocking numbers, aye.
“But thatâs OK, cos its part of the culture, isnât it?”
Is that rhetorical or directed at me? I say no, it’s not okay, but going by some attitudes here, I wouldn’t vouch for everyone.
My comments are rhetorical as these phrases are so often used for all sorts of scenarios where one know it has nothing to do with culture.
All the workplaces/businesses I have seen and worked in and on have had a far greater issue with drinks and drugs then smokers. When the finger hovers over the keyboard and the head hurts for hours, drugs cloud the judgement and ooppss …yes, that was close, only the toe this time etc…absentism, mood swings, aggressive behavior and so forth…I think unproductive is the word.
Doesnât affect the argument if non smokers die of cancer, heart disease and strokes, because if the money spent on treating smokers, and the cost to the country above and beyond the revenue garnered from the tobacco industry, wasnât wasted on deliberate, slow suicide and was spent elsewhere, child poverty in NZ could be eradicated in an instant.
What a load of crap. If a non-smoker gets heart disease, it costs the same to treat as a smoker with heart disease. And if they don’t get cancer or heart disease, they’ll get something else that will eventually kill them – alzheimers, or something. Treatment costs are neutral, they’re just brought forward for half of smokers. Many of those years are pension years with lower mobility and higher care costs. So really, even if a smoker pays no excise tax, they probably on average save the country money.
By your logic, smokers are heroes who risk their lives to end child poverty.
You might not have “made up” those figures, but somebody did with selective economics. Quite frankly, it’s that sort of shit that keeps some people smoking out of general bloody-mindedness – if you get lied to, patronised, and ostracised, some people just say “fuck you, too” and dig in their heels.
If someone smokes out of bloody mindedness, they deserve all they get, but shouldn’t really expect the taxpayer to cover their idiocy. Even more so if they don’t pay tax on tobacco.
Don’t care you don’t agree. Most rational folk will see that the huge amount of money spent treating smokers would then be able to be spent elsewhere on people who don’t deliberately chose a 50/50 pathway to needing expensive care and treatment. Even hone gets it.
I would much rather the money was spent on kids shoes, warm homes, healthy food, adult education and things like obesity programs in carl jnr catchment areas.
If you can’t see the benefit of smokefree NZ and spending up elsewhere, what more can can I say?
Most rational folk will realise that most people will require years of treatment and palliative care before they die. Smokers are by no means exceptional in that regard.
( my Grandfather smoked all his life and enjoyed it ….and died at 84 with a cigarette out in the snow….his heart gave up…smoking probably killed his heart …but what the hell…there are worse things eg get drunk and drive…take P)
We should be taxing the cigarette companies for health care
“We should be taxing the cigarette companies for health care”
We could, but on approximately $1.6 billion per year retail spending, tax revenue to the treasury is some $850m, and the cost of smoking is put at $1.75b, more than double the amount.
It would be easier to get ignorant, selfish fu*ks to stop altogether rather than get tobacco companies to pay $100m more than they actually sell.
“there are worse things eg get drunk and driveâŠtake P)”
“Hardcore drugs P, cocaine and Ecstasy gave New Zealand a bill of about $546 million for social costs in one financial year.
They are a big part of the total $1.3 billion that drug use cost the country in 2005 and 2006.”
Surprisingly still nearly half a billion less than for smoking, so I guess not much worse at all. đ
“Surprisingly still nearly half a billion less than for smoking, so I guess not much worse at all.”
Though the end figure for smoking might not be over one year like the hard drugs is quoted, so bear that in mind that it’s just a rough comparison, but still, the cost of smoking is extremely high.
The social cost has not been accounted for, the women who are abused, the children murdered, the after hour medical service at a stretch beyond belief on weekends etc… But hey, who wants to hear the truth when the half truth is so comforting.
A 2009 study, applying a methodology endorsed by the World Health Organization, estimated harmful alcohol use cost New Zealand $4.9 billion in 2005/06 (Berl 2009). However, previous estimates have ranged from $735 million to $16.1 billion (Law Commission, 2009, p168).
@bad 12 ….True story to lift the morale of Smokers:
A young girl following a mountain track by herself , went off the edge and fell down a waterfall at Arthur’s Pass …luckily for her she fell onto a very narrow ledge half-way down….but there was no way up or down …except death ….and hardly any room to move…but she managed to survive and stay calm until a helicopter was able to reach her next day. Her rescuers where very impressed with her survival and her coolness…
When asked how she kept her nerve , she said something like this : “Well I know smoking is not good for you…. and I know it is supposed to shorten your life…..But in my case it saved my life! ….because I just got out a packet of cigarettes and smoked them slowly and tried to concentrate on the view and think of other things ”
When I pointed this out to my brother who smokes ( and we all give him a hard time for this) …he immediately said “What brand does she smoke?”
I moved to a more affordable town some years ago after a relationship breakup and only owning half a house. When I went in to SW to sign on, the 13 year old behind a desk looked at me aghast when I said that I moved into the district and bought a house. She said “Who told you that it was OK to buy a house”. She didn’t like my reply that I didn’t know I had to have her permission.
I’ve had “interesting” experiences with WINZ. The most competent and compassionate have been middle-aged Maori and Pasifika women who’ve obviously seen real life. They haven’t always given me what I wanted, but they were good, knew their job and acted professionally. The worst have been the adolescent pimple farms, knowing that their job now was to both deny benefits and get people off the lists so that the statistics looked good and above all, eager to kiss Bennett’s butt.
What’s wrong with the young these days? They aren’t rebels, they’re frightened arse-kissers.
Of course, that’s what the NACTs want everyone to be.
Having a space program has nothing to do with debt. The debt is a result of the way that money is created by the private banks with interest. Change that and no country will ever be in debt again. Even NZ could easily afford a space program if we changed the financial system.
Of course, something so simple will be hard to do due to the private banks doing all they can to prevent the eradication of their power.
And Hooters is still ranting, but when you read this:
‘Green/Labour is now well ahead of National in the polls, with the left-wing combination now on a combined 50% and National struggling on 39%, according to a secret but widely leaked UMR poll. That means the election is Mr Cunliffeâs to lose. One of the most likely ways he will lose it is if he continues to exaggerate his own background, contributions and talents. Others can and do get away with it. Likely prime ministers canât.’
Yep, Hoots is hilarious, isn’t he? He’s like a five year old child who thought he was the biggest bully in the playground and then met someone bigger, so he’s still pretending without actually challenging.
Is the desperado (Sell my Grandmother If I Have to) English, now selling off Landcorp in pieces to meet his Surplus budget? Was Landcorp on the asset sale plan of National?
@ Rhino – the worst were ekshly PB’s offspring during her slutting days. Now (as DC so aptly puts it – she’s pulled up the ladder) … you know the rest. Her best defense will be something along the lines of ‘party loyalty’.
Might be 2014, might be 2017 – but there goes an uber-ugly specimen that’ll be pushing shit uphill before too long.
But yes …. protest, difference in any form – other than the trendy in vogue – became very unfashionable for a while there. Thank Christ the tide is turning. It’s EKSHLY an unstoppable force. I used to wonder why the uni students whose essay attempts I used to mark weren’t that engaged. Answer: pretty much came down to DEBT and the desire to have a few boxes ticked.
Neo-liberalism – the ideology you have when you can’t think of anything else!
I’m keeping secret my solution to the Sky TV monopoly (for example) – having just done some dish installation and a ‘blind scan’ – but it would sure as hell wipe out their monopoly in OFS.
Quite simply though … legally and otherwise …. surely anything that originates in unencrypted format was intended for wide viewing/listenership and wasn’t designed for middlemen to come along and clip the ticket.
(shhhhhh! )
Let ’em all wallow in the realisation they cudda shudda wudda – and that’s even BEFORE we even start doing what’s done elsewhere (such as pay TV being levied to support PSB)
Government Report Offers More Evidence Cannabis is a Wonder Drug for Cancer and Good Health
âOne study in mice and rats suggested that cannabinoids may have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors.â They continue; âCannabinoids may cause antitumor effects by various mechanisms, including induction of cell death, inhibition of cell growth, and inhibition of tumor angiogenesis invasion and metastasis. One review summarizes the molecular mechanisms of action of cannabinoids as antitumor agents. Cannabinoids appear to kill tumor cells but do not affect their nontransformed counterparts and may even protect them from cell death.â
A good man. And smart – I thought I’d work ahead so read The Republic in the summer holidays before doing his Pols 101 paper, that was amazed that we’d allegedly read the same book. Although I used the same copy in the course, I must have been reading the “Baby’s First Political Philosophy” supplement at the back all summer đ
I watched that myself last night. Wish I’d heard him talk in person, but have only read him previously. Those TED talks are quite inspirational, if somewhat compulsive viewing.
After decades in exile and dictatorship, some people have courage and go home, and ILLAPU are one of the best, most original, most loyal ones to their country. So how many “Kiwis” ever were forced into “exile” to “fight”? You guys are mostly too busy fighting each other but FIGHT for progress and the lesser in your country. WAKE UP and take a bloody stand, thanks, I will fight, and I have been in your shit police cells and worse, where the hell are you, KIWIS? Any GUTS???
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…it has a restricted jurisdiction which must not be abused: it is not an inquisition  NOTE – this article was published before the High Court ruled that Karen Chhour does not have to appear before the Waitangi Tribunal Gary Judd writes – The High Court ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – One of reasons Oranga Tamariki exists is to prevent child neglect. But could the organisation itself be guilty of the same?Oranga Tamarikiâs statistics show a decrease in the number and age of children in care. âThere are less children ...
David Farrar writes: Graeme Edgeler wrote in 2017: In the first five years after three strikes came into effect 5248 offenders received a âfirst strikeâ (that is, a âstage-1 convictionâ under the three strikes sentencing regime), and 68 offenders received a âsecond strikeâ. In the five years prior to ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesnât normally happen in politics. Thatâs refreshing and will be extremely ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the two days to 6:06am on Thursday, April 25:Politics: PM Christopher Luxon has set up a dual standard for ministerial competence by demoting two National Cabinet ministers while leaving also-struggling ...
Hi,Today I mainly want to share some of your thoughts about the recent piece I wrote about success and failure, and the forces that seemingly guide our lives. But first, a quick bit of housekeeping: I am doing a Webworm popup in Los Angeles on Saturday May 11 at 2pm. ...
It is hard to see what Melissa Lee might have done to âsaveâ the media. National went into the election with no public media policy and appears not to have developed one subsequently. Lee claimed that she had prepared a policy paper before the election but it had been decided ...
Open access notablesIce acceleration and rotation in the Greenland Ice Sheet interior in recent decades, Løkkegaard et al., Communications Earth & Environment:In the past two decades, mass loss from the Greenland ice sheet has accelerated, partly due to the speedup of glaciers. However, uncertainty in speed derived from satellite products ...
Buzz from the Beehive A statement from Children’s Minister Karen Chhour – yet to be posted on the Governmentâs official website – arrived in Point of Orderâs email in-tray last night. It welcomes the High Court ruling on whether the Waitangi Tribunal can demand she appear before it. It does ...
Mr Bombastic:Ironically, the media the academic experts wanted is, in many ways, the media they got. In place of the tyrannical editors of yesteryear, advancing without fear or favour the interests of the ruling class; the New Zealand news media of today boasts a troop of enlightened journalists dedicated to ...
It's hard times try to make a livingYou wake up every morning in the unforgivingOut there somewhere in the cityThere's people living lives without mercy or pityI feel good, yeah I'm feeling fineI feel better then I have for the longest timeI think these pills have been good for meI ...
In 1974, the US Supreme Court issued its decision in United States v. Nixon, finding that the President was not a King, but was subject to the law and was required to turn over the evidence of his wrongdoing to the courts. It was a landmark decision for the rule ...
Every day now just seems to bring in more fresh meat for the grinder.In their relentlessly ideological drive to cut back on the “excessive bloat” (as they see it) of the previous Labour-led government, on the mountains of evidence accumulated in such a short period of time do not ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Megan Valére SosouMarket gardening site of the Itchèléré de Itagui agricultural cooperative in Dassa-Zoumè (Image credit: Megan Valère Sossou) For the residents of Dassa-Zoumè, a city in the West African country of Benin, choosing between drinking water and having enough ...
Buzz from the Beehive  Melissa Lee â as may be discerned from the screenshot above â has not been demoted for doing something seriously wrong as Minister of ...
Morning in London Mother hugs beloved daughter outside the converted shoe factory in which she is living.Afternoon in London Travelling writer takes himself and his wrist down to A&E, just to be sure. Read more ...
Mike Grimshaw writes – The recent announcement of the University Advisory Group, chaired by Sir Peter Gluckman, makes very clear where the Governmentâs focus and priorities lie. The remit of the Advisory Group is that Group members will consider challenges and opportunities for improvement in the university sector including: ...
Eric Crampton writes – The Reserve Bank of New Zealand desperately wants to find reasons to have workstreams in climate change. It makes little sense. They’ve run another stress test on the banks looking to see if they could find a prudential regulation case. They couldn’t. They ...
Rob MacCullough writes –Â Pundits from the left and the right are arguing that National’s Fast Track Bill that is designed to speed up infrastructure decisions could end up becoming mired in a cesspool of corruption. Political commentator ...
Looking at the headlines this morning it’s hard to feel anything other than pessimistic about the future of humanity.Note that I’m not speaking about the future of mankind, but the survival of our humanity. The values that we believe in seem to be ebbing away, by the day.Perhaps every generation ...
Swabbing mixed breed baby chicks to test for avian influenzaUh oh. Bird flu â often deadly to humans – is not only being transmitted from infected birds to dairy cows, but is now travelling between dairy cows. As of last Friday, Bloomberg News reports, there were 32 American dairy herds ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
What is it with the mining industry? Its not enough for them to pillage the earth - they apparently can't even be bothered getting resource consent to do so: The proponent behind a major mine near the Clutha River had already been undertaking activity in the area without a ...
Photo # 1 I am a huge fan of Singapore’s approach to housing, as described here two years ago by copying and pasting from The ConversationWhat Singapore has that Australia does not is a public housing developer, the Housing Development Board, which puts new dwellings on public and reclaimed land, ...
Buzz from the Beehive Reactions to news of the governmentâs readiness to make urgent changes to âthe resource management systemâ through a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) suggest a balanced approach is being taken. The Taxpayers’ Union says the proposed changes donât go far enough. Greenpeace says ...
I’m starting to wonder if Anna Burns-Francis might be the best political interviewer we’ve got. That might sound unlikely to you, it came as a bit of a surprise to me.Jack Tame can be excellent, but has some pretty average days. I like Rebecca Wright on Newshub, she asks good ...
Chris Trotter writes – Willie Jackson is said to be planning a âmedia summitâ to discuss âthe state of the media and how to protect Fourth Estate Journalismâ. Not only does the Editor of The Daily Blog, Martyn Bradbury, think this is a good idea, but he has also ...
Graeme Edgeler writes –Â This morning [April 21], the Wellington High Court is hearing a judicial review brought by Hon. Karen Chhour, the Minister for Children, against a decision of the Waitangi Tribunal. This is unusual, judicial reviews are much more likely to brought against ministers, rather than ...
Both of Parliament’s watchdogs have now ripped into the Government’s Fast-track Approvals Bill. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāMy pick of the six newsey things to know from Aotearoa’s political economy and beyond on the morning of Tuesday, April 23 are:The Lead: The Auditor General,John Ryan, has joined the ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Sarah SpengemanPeople wait to board an electric bus in Pune, India. (Image credit: courtesy of ITDP) Public transportation riders in Pune, India, love the city’s new electric buses so much they will actually skip an older diesel bus that ...
The infrastructure industry yesterday issued a “hurry up” message to the Government, telling it to get cracking on developing a pipeline of infrastructure projects.The hiatus around the change of Government has seen some major projects cancelled and others delayed, and there is uncertainty about what will happen with the new ...
Hi,Over the weekend I revisited a podcast I really adore, Dead Eyes. It’s about a guy who got fired from Band of Brothers over two decades ago because Tom Hanks said he had “dead eyes”.If you don’t recall — 2001’s Band of Brothers was part of the emerging trend of ...
 Buzz from the Beehive The 180 or so recipients of letters from the Government telling them how to submit infrastructure projects for âfast trackâ consideration includes some whose project applications previously have been rejected by the courts. News media were quick to feature these in their reports after RMA Reform Minister Chris ...
It would not be a desirable way to start your holiday by breaking your back, your head, or your wrist, but on our first hour in Singapore I gave it a try.We were chatting, last week, before we started a meeting of Hazel’s Enviro Trust, about the things that can ...
Calling all journalists, academics, planners, lawyers, political activists, environmentalists, and other members of the public who believe that the relationships between vested interests and politicians need to be scrutinised. We need to work together to make sure that the new Fast-Track Approvals Bill â currently being pushed through by the ...
Feel worried. Shane Jones and a couple of his Cabinet colleagues are about to be granted the power to override any and all objections to projects like dams, mines, roads etc even if: said projects will harm biodiversity, increase global warming and cause other environmental harms, and even if ...
Bryce Edwards writes-Â The ability of the private sector to quickly establish major new projects making use of the urban and natural environment is to be supercharged by the new National-led Government. Yesterday it introduced to Parliament one of its most significant reforms, the Fast Track Approvals Bill. ...
Michael Bassett writes – If you think there is a move afoot by the radical Maori fringe of New Zealand society to create a parallel system of government to the one that we elect at our triennial elections, you arenât wrong. Over the last few days we have ...
Without a corresponding drop in interest rates, it’s doubtful any changes to the CCCFA will unleash a massive rush of home buyers. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: The six things that stood out to me in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, poverty and climate on Monday, April 22 included:The Government making a ...
Sunday was a lazy day. I started watching Jack Tame on Q&A, the interviews are usually good for something to write about. Saying the things that the politicians won’t, but are quite possibly thinking. Things that are true and need to be extracted from between the lines.As you might know ...
In our Weekly Roundup last week we covered news from Auckland Transport that the WX1 Western Express is going to get an upgrade next year with double decker electric buses. As part of the announcement, AT also said âSince we introduced the WX1 Western Express last November we have seen ...
TL;DR: The six key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to April 29 include:PM Christopher Luxon is scheduled to hold a post-Cabinet news conference at 4 pm today. Stats NZ releases its statutory report on Census 2023 tomorrow.Finance Minister Nicola Willis delivers a pre-Budget speech at ...
A listing of 29 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 14, 2024 thru Sat, April 20, 2024. Story of the week Our story of the week hinges on these words from the abstract of a fresh academic ...
The ability of the private sector to quickly establish major new projects making use of the urban and natural environment is to be supercharged by the new National-led Government. Yesterday it introduced to Parliament one of its most significant reforms, the Fast Track Approvals Bill. The Government says this will ...
This is a column to say thank you. So many of have been in touch since Mum died to say so many kind and thoughtful things. You’re wonderful, all of you. You’ve asked how we’re doing, how Dad’s doing. A little more realisation each day, of the irretrievable finality of ...
Identifying the engine type in your car is crucial for various reasons, including maintenance, repairs, and performance upgrades. Knowing the specific engine model allows you to access detailed technical information, locate compatible parts, and make informed decisions about modifications. This comprehensive guide will provide you with a step-by-step approach to ...
Introduction: The allure of racing is undeniable. The thrill of speed, the roar of engines, and the exhilaration of competition all contribute to the allure of this adrenaline-driven sport. For those who yearn to experience the pinnacle of racing, becoming a race car driver is the ultimate dream. However, the ...
Introduction Automobiles have become ubiquitous in modern society, serving as a primary mode of transportation and a symbol of economic growth and personal mobility. With countless vehicles traversing roads and highways worldwide, it begs the question: how many cars are there in the world? Determining the precise number is a ...
Maintaining a safe and reliable vehicle requires regular inspections. Whether it’s a routine maintenance checkup or a safety inspection, knowing how long the process will take can help you plan your day accordingly. This article delves into the factors that influence the duration of a car inspection and provides an ...
Mazda Motor Corporation, commonly known as Mazda, is a Japanese multinational automaker headquartered in Fuchu, Aki District, Hiroshima Prefecture, Japan. The company was founded in 1920 as the Toyo Cork Kogyo Co., Ltd., and began producing vehicles in 1931. Mazda is primarily known for its production of passenger cars, but ...
Your car battery is an essential component that provides power to start your engine, operate your electrical systems, and store energy. Over time, batteries can weaken and lose their ability to hold a charge, which can lead to starting problems, power failures, and other issues. Replacing your battery before it ...
In most states, you cannot register a car without a valid driver’s license. However, there are a few exceptions to this rule. Exceptions to the RuleIf you are under 18 years old: In some states, you can register a car in your name even if you do not ...
Mazda, a Japanese automotive manufacturer with a rich history of innovation and engineering excellence, has emerged as a formidable player in the global car market. Known for its reputation of producing high-quality, fuel-efficient, and driver-oriented vehicles, Mazda has consistently garnered praise from industry experts and consumers alike. In this article, ...
Struts are an essential part of a car’s suspension system. They are responsible for supporting the weight of the car and damping the oscillations of the springs. Struts are typically made of steel or aluminum and are filled with hydraulic fluid. How Do Struts Work? Struts work by transferring the ...
Car registration is a mandatory process that all vehicle owners must complete annually. This process involves registering your car with the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) and paying an associated fee. The registration process ensures that your vehicle is properly licensed and insured, and helps law enforcement and other authorities ...
Zoom is a video conferencing service that allows you to share your screen, webcam, and audio with other participants. In addition to sharing your own audio, you can also share the audio from your computer with other participants. This can be useful for playing music, sharing presentations with audio, or ...
Building your own computer can be a rewarding and cost-effective way to get a high-performance machine tailored to your specific needs. However, it also requires careful planning and execution, and one of the most important factors to consider is the time it will take. The exact time it takes to ...
Sleep mode is a power-saving state that allows your computer to quickly resume operation without having to boot up from scratch. This can be useful if you need to step away from your computer for a short period of time but don’t want to shut it down completely. There are ...
Introduction Computer-Assisted Translation (CAT) has revolutionized the field of translation by harnessing the power of technology to assist human translators in their work. This innovative approach combines specialized software with human expertise to improve the efficiency, accuracy, and consistency of translations. In this comprehensive article, we will delve into the ...
In today’s digital age, mobile devices have become an indispensable part of our daily lives. Among the vast array of portable computing options available, iPads and tablet computers stand out as two prominent contenders. While both offer similar functionalities, there are subtle yet significant differences between these two devices. This ...
A computer is an electronic device that can be programmed to carry out a set of instructions. The basic components of a computer are the processor, memory, storage, input devices, and output devices. The Processor The processor, also known as the central processing unit (CPU), is the brain of the ...
Voice Memos is a convenient app on your iPhone that allows you to quickly record and store audio snippets. These recordings can be useful for a variety of purposes, such as taking notes, capturing ideas, or recording interviews. While you can listen to your voice memos on your iPhone, you ...
Laptop screens are essential for interacting with our devices and accessing information. However, when lines appear on the screen, it can be frustrating and disrupt productivity. Understanding the underlying causes of these lines is crucial for finding effective solutions. Types of Screen Lines Horizontal lines: Also known as scan ...
Right-clicking is a common and essential computer operation that allows users to access additional options and settings. While most desktop computers have dedicated right-click buttons on their mice, laptops often do not have these buttons due to space limitations. This article will provide a comprehensive guide on how to right-click ...
Powering up and shutting down your ASUS laptop is an essential task for any laptop user. Locating the power button can sometimes be a hassle, especially if you’re new to ASUS laptops. This article will provide a comprehensive guide on where to find the power button on different ASUS laptop ...
Dell laptops are renowned for their reliability, performance, and versatility. Whether you’re a student, a professional, or just someone who needs a reliable computing device, a Dell laptop can meet your needs. However, if you’re new to Dell laptops, you may be wondering how to get started. In this comprehensive ...
Two-thirds of the country think that âNew Zealandâs economy is rigged to advantage the rich and powerfulâ. They also believe that âNew Zealand needs a strong leader to take the country back from the rich and powerfulâ. These are just two of a handful of stunning new survey results released ...
Te PÄti MÄori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veteransâ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veteransâ affairs spokesperson Greg OâConnor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxonâs management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonightâs court decision to overturn the summons of the Childrenâs Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about MÄori without evidence, says Te PÄti MÄori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. âThe judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last yearâs severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labourâs environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our countryâs most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Governmentâs Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a âget out of jail freeâ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te PÄti MÄori Justice Spokesperson, TÄkuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, MÄori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealandâs good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National governmentâs lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te PÄti MÄori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. âThis act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.â Said Te PÄti MÄori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for TÄmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te PÄti MÄori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mĆ TÄmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with MÄori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Governmentâs democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Governmentâs proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change thatâs great for the planet and great for consumers after her memberâs bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the countryâs books after Teanau Tuionoâs membersâ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his memberâs bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Todayâs advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen â good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood â a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - Â It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Â Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Â Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. âOur Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealandâs hydrogen future, with the opening of the countryâs first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. âI want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealandâs own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealandâs energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. âThe report shows that New Zealandâs emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,â Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where heâll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Governmentâs work to restore law and order. âAttending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealandâs human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the worldâs largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. âThe reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealandâs wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin  NgÄ mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho  Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today.  I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. âOur Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealandâs overseas missions.  âOur diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealandâs interests around the world,â Mr Peters says.  âI am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. Â âOver 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. âIt is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. âOur coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
âChina remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,â Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says.  Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. âRecently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachersâ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul.  âThe Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. âScience, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During todayâs meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. âThe Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in TaupĆ as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the TaupĆ International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. âAnticipation for the ITM TaupĆ Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. âThe coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. âThis project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sectorâs productivity,â Mr Jones says. âThe project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Governmentâs plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. âBenefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Governmentâs commitment to doubling New Zealandâs renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealandâs latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. âOur Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. âNew Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
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This from Rodney Hide:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11131661
Faint praise or what ?
As I commented yesterday, the tide is turning and there are many reef-fish who do not want to end up on the wrong side of history.
Looks like Rodney is having a “bob each way”.
I agree. I’m sure I heard that extra large reef-fish, Duncan Garner, say to Kris Faafoi this morning on The Nation, “I look forward to your sucess!”
I think it’s praise North. Not praise for his politics of course but praise for Cunliffe’s style and the strong belief he has in himself. I think he sees a bit of himself in Cunliffe . Both speak their minds regardless of the consequences, and they’re not afraid to be a bit mongrel if they think the occasion is deserving of it. Neither suffer fools gladly – something they both have in common with Helen Clark. đ
Well put.
As the Nats see the writing on the wall expect the screaming mantra from the right that Labour/Greens will be a “far-left” governement to get ever louder. Shonkey has already used this label many times – it’s a cheap trick, without substance, to scare the voter.
To neutralise this the left should be taking ownership of the language. Cunliffe and the left could say something along the lines of
Each time the “far-left” lable is used simply roll out the above or similar and it will show up Shonkey’s increasingly desperate “name-calling” for what it is.
I’m sure there will be standardistas out there with some snappier language that neutalises that “far-left” label. Any ideas?
Well today Colin Espiner referred to the latest polls in lab-Green favour labeling it as a possible centre eft government. Following that he refers to Key’s attempt to discredit a potential minority “far left” Labour government, using quote marks around the term. he goes on to discount the “minority” government argument and makes no comment on the <i."far left" tag.
I thing Key’s smear attempt is already looking like empty rhetoric.
Yes, the line from Key that NZ wouldn’t tolerate the party with the least seats forming a government is a desperate attempt to set tone.
The country overwhelmingly voted to keep mmp, and I’m sure accept that the game is now left v right.
Both comments may be very valid but let’s make sure we know it’s not just left V’s right, it’s far left and centre right. Despite the dribble above, you are going to need to get used to it.
Even though I disagree with the nat party spin about far left, from the center outwards in both directions it’s left v right.
It’s all encompassing, but they’re the voting blocks in NZ under mmp.
Human rights abuses? Check.
Enacting legislation that is fundamentally at odds with the rule of law? Check.
Anti worker legislation? Check.
Dubious “medical” interventions. Check.
Sale of legislation? Check.
“Centre right” governments don’t do any of the above. Right wing trash where conservatives used to be.
This government is radical-right not centre-right. This is clearly coming through now with the desperate sales of assets against all rational economic thought and against what the country wants.
The Nats have never been centre. Farrar used to refer approvingly to this:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2011
(and claimed he was in the region of +10, – 4), but that has disappeared from his site as it diverged from official spin.
(There graph for Australia 2013 is telling as well – Labour there is similar to United Future here according to their chart.)
As are you DumbArse to the exponentially vivid and resonant caricature of a PM having to “play away” in search of adulation. Not forgetting that in doing so he’s looking increasingly naff. “Mr 62%…….” doesn’t cut it anymore. What’s worse, the vaunted cargo has ended up in the hands of a very few in the cult who defame and blame those who believed but missed out.
Never mind DumbArse…….Judge Judy’s looking for a cheer team. You can top up with Kool Aid there.
As ShonKey Python’s star wanes the pejorative soundbite “far left” depends for legs on –
1. Explanation of its meaning, failing which,
2. Uncritical acceptance based on extant trust.
Well, (1) explaining is losing (apparently), and (2) “smile and wave” no longer wins trust.
For my part I actually love hearing ShonKey Python use it. If he continues with it he risks falling victim to the superbly intelligible real life based responses suggested by Steve @ 2 above.
Both Cunliffe and Norman are eminently capable of delivering those responses, and better. What would ShonKey Python have left ? Fawning at Balmoral and making like the big boy at the UN ? Not good enough. Both episodes run so close to embarrassing.
“and wave……..goodbye” seems apposite.
‘The Roaring Mouse’ might be a good label to fling at ShonKey.
The Roaring Mouse and his MouseKeyTeers from the Mickey Mouse Party on Planet Key.
No toilets for Tau to use badly on planet Key – no cleaners either
It would be a far left government. The current Government is a left wing government. So with the policies announced by Silent T and the Red Melons, what else can we call it?
If you want to maintain more NZ ownership of assets start saving more. Labour Green policies will do the opposite.
We have a world class and fair, highly progressive tax system. It is the envy of the world.
Given our GDP we have a world class health system.
Our education system is great for 80% of kids. For the other 20% it is a problem. What is your solution? Don’t say “spend more money” The 5th Labour Government did that for zero – thats right – zero return.
If you have anything else on your list let me know.
Srylands
I guess compared to Abott’s crew, even the present Key government does seem left wing (not only woman, but maaris too!).
Just don’t say “we”; you don’t live here, you don’t know us.
Flicking through the Sunday Star times on Press Display:
Op Ed section: PPTA respond to Colin Espiner on Charter Schools.
Espiner meanwhile, weighs up the fact that Labour is now back in the fight, though things can always turn against them.
He frames his analysis saying that bad things often happen when PMs are out of the country, and while Key was overseas being called a colonial clot, throwing up, speaking to the UN etc, voters back home had more mundane things on their minds, like low wages, cost of housing, lack of decent jobs, and Americas Cup.
Andrea Vance has an article headlined “Interference over river smells bad” – But she then proceeds to explain why this is not a big problem for old Nick who, while having a dodgy record, has just been a bit over enthusiastic.
“But she then proceeds to explain why this is not a big problem for old Nick who, while having a dodgy record, has just been a bit over enthusiastic.”
What, is Andrea collecting photo’s from more than one old fool on the Treasury benches??
Funded Family Care released yesterday
âIn its announcement the Government makes much of the fact that it consulted with experts to craft this policy. The feedback we provided was ignored, and the result is the Funded Family Care payment is a dogâs breakfast. Itâs not nice, itâs not right, and it wonât work,â
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1309/S00304/governments-new-family-carer-payment-flawed-and-unfair.htm
Hmmm….
Reading through the scheme is like watching money flow down a drain â into the pockets of gate-keepers, and held back from the very people for whom the scheme is meant to exist. I see a lot of job creation for anyone but the person who is after the funding; it is a maddening read.
Iâll give them this much: They do, at one point, acknowledge how complex and extensive the scheme is:
âThe requirements of the FFC arrangement are quite extensive and complex and understanding the obligations and responsibilities of being an employer in this arrangement can be quite daunting.â
Yah think..?? [Head-desk.]
http://autismandoughtisms.wordpress.com/2013/09/26/whats-so-very-very-wrong-with-funded-family-care/
“understanding the obligations and responsibilities of being an employer in this arrangement can be quite daunting.”
But they make the employer the disabled person, not the health provider, which is what I assume would happen with an unrelated carer.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/9214236/Wankerish_Ryall doesnât get what disabled means
If disabled people would âlikeâ to be cared for by a family member?
All disabled people are fully aware of their ‘roles and responsibilities’?
All disabled people can read a notice and operational policy?
All disabled people can contact pick up a phone / log on to the internet / get down the road to contact their local NASC?
So if disabled people canât do one or more of these things they cannot be assessed? Why does Mr Ryall think theyâre being cared for? Lifestyle choice?
Carers, who can help disabled people do some of these things, or do them for them, are once again invisible to NAct in this press release.
Surely the contracting arrangement should be between the carer and the government through the health system, not between the dis/abled family members?
The maddening thing is that many disabled people also have medical needs that a person at $13.75 per hour is at a 99% likely hood not trained to recognize.
Now, there is something every family with a disabled person should take note off: In case of negligence, physical or medically they should sue the government for negligence of care by intention (as the new legislation clearly is if one follows the outline).
Tort:
Negligence
The key elements of negligence
Negligence is the failure to exercise reasonable care to avoid reasonably foreseeable damage to people or property. There are four elements:
The defendant must owe the plaintiff a duty of care.
The defendant must have breached this duty of care.
The plaintiff must have suffered damage that was caused by the defendantâs breach of duty.
The damage suffered must have been a reasonably foreseeable consequence.
Breaching the duty of care
In a negligence case, the test for whether the defendant breached a duty of care is whether the defendant did something or failed to do something that a âreasonable personâ would not have done or omitted to do.
The degree of care required depends on the circumstances. It varies according to the degree of risk involved, the consequences of the breach, and the standard of care that the defendant has undertaken to exercise
I belief this applies in the way the legislation is outlined.
making Funded Family Care more difficult to access for family than NASC’s and their affiliated care providers.
Wow…a knowledgable and brave man here
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/28/time-end-war-drugs-uk-police-chief
Let’s hope the courage spreads to some senior NZ police officers….they must surely know what he’s saying is true, from their own experiences.
@Stever. Completely! Until ‘P’ came along – I’ve always believed that decriminalosation was the way to go – with the amount of money spent on enforcement redirected into rehab.
‘P’ presented a different problem with brain fries, paranoia and violence along with it.
Having mulled it over, decriminalisation and adequate rehab is definately the way to go – even with ‘P’. The ‘war on drugs’ is never going to be won without finding a way to cempletely take the value out of ‘illicit drugs.
They spend tens of thousands (or used to) putting bloody helicopters in the air to spot and destroy crops FFS!. Enough to pay a few counsellors salaries anyway.
I’m not suggesting ‘loss leader smack’ in the local supermarket, but finding ways of addicts being able to access safe supplies and without resorting to criminal activity to fund their habits seems like its worth investigating at the very least.
The thing with ‘P’ is it’s highly addictive nature, right up there in terms of addiction with Heroin and Tobacco,
The violence was removed from Heroin use to a large extent by the Methadone Program as much of that violence was associated with the lengths those addicted would go to to find the resources to feed their addiction,
My view is that the ‘P’ addiction should be addressed by the same means and in my dreams i see us as a country catching up with the state of Colorado in the US which has flouted Federal Law and enacted the legalization of marijuana and as yet i have not read of any overt anti-societal effects from them having done so…
There are still a few problems – even WITH the Methadone Programme.
It just seems to me that every step taken with outlawing ‘illicit drugs’ has actually worsened the problems.
We banned the Chinese from Opium. Next we had heroin …. so they class ‘A’d’ it and went to extreme lengths to prevent importation (somewhat successfully). Up popped ‘Homebake’ – far worse than the heroin it replaced. Then up popped ‘P’.
The Methadone Programme does its best – but its under-resourced and there is an element that stuffs it up for the genuine as you may be aware = that’s aside from expecting it to be a solution to ‘P’ addicts. You’ll probably know that there are a number who rely on ‘diversion’ of at least a portion of their daily dose in order to survive financially.
Oh, and there’s sometimes another problem with the programme in that it’s sometime run by power-trippers and those treating patients like kids. Admittedly they face constant conning, but unfortunately all patients then have to face the same treatment.
Rehab programmes haven’t been anywhere NEAR adequate in this country for quite some time. There always seems to be enough money though for enforcement …. relatively speaking anyway – and it’s NOT working.
Having had a brother that more than dabbled for most of his life – its hard not to think what could have been – under a different regime
Yeah of course there are problems with the ‘Done program’, the biggest would seem to be the assumption that people can be weaned off the Heroin addiction by them being put on the program and then having them weaned off of even that,
Back in the 70’s i knew of doctors and lawyers who enjoyed their Heroin but of course they could afford the product so their addictions were not obvious,
Rehab might work but i have never met a Heroin user that has done so and completely kicked their use so it would seem that the best means of society to ;treat’ those with addictions is to provide them with a suitable maintainance dose of whatever they are addicted to at cost…
we may have known the same doctors and lawyers bad – one or two now in very prominent positions. I find it somewhat amusing at times the judgmental attitudes towards my brother in their stereotyping – right up until they become aware that his first contact with it all was as a border at Christ’s College.
It is way past time though that this whole ‘war on drugs’ was re-evaluated – it ain’t bloody working! – and nor will it – even if we just look at recent history.
@ bad..
“..i have never met a Heroin user that has done so and completely kicked their use..”
..(ahem..!..)
phillip ure..
i have never met a Heroin user that has done so and completely kicked their use
I have. More than one. I’ll say no more (to avoid mentioning individuals), except that it is a terrible drug, but heroin addicts, like alcoholics, can turn their lives completely around.
I know several ex heroin addicts who completely stopped. I used narcotics for 18 years and stopped in 1997. It is possible, but the legal bullshit surrounding drugs makes it far harder than it needs to be.
In fact, many states in the USA have taken steps to decriminalise or partially decriminalise marijuana. Marijuana for medical use is permitted in several states, for example, as is personal possession of up to 1 oz.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_the_United_States#State
when you take a sledgehammer to a nutty problem, fragments is all you are left with.
in the not too distant past in our fair lands marijuana was legal and alcohol was illegal.
did they have it right then or are we superiors and have it right now?
It seems that our Police Force is still adamant that sellers of marijuana must be locked up and the public given a lecture via the MSM by the Dick leading the witch-hunt about the ‘evils’ of the drug, as happened in Wellington not so long ago.
Closer to home – South Australia – simple minimal amount possession/use of cannabis – nothing stiffer than an infringement notice more or less. That was certainly the case 10-15 years ago.
Also recall years ago hearing a retiring senior drug squad detective stoutly maintaining that controlled legal supply of heroin to those afflicted would do away overnight with 60% of the violent standovers and convenience store robberies in the Kings Cross area. Someone might have links. Here’s one related –
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/40070.html
This.
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-great-marijuana-crash-of-2011-2013-9
Q: What impact does being able to manufacture “P” locally have on the drug industry in NZ?
A:________
Q: What impact might there be on “P” use with other variations of higher quality narcotics safely readily available?
A:_________
Q: What is the influence of the pharma/alcohol industries in preventing decriminalization?
A:__________
Q: What is the level of involvement of the police and “other public figures” in the organised crime behind the NZ “P Problem” ?
A:__________
Bugger! I was hoping that by not putting my clocks forward, I’d wake up and discover I’d missed Q+A.
I note that Red Alert has yet to acknowledge there is a new leader of the Labour Party – two weeks after the fact.
Clare Curran is currently running a “Right to know” list of posts concentrating on OIA requests to selected ministers. There may be some good material in them, but blowed if I’m going to wade through the myriad of stuff and judging by the lack of comments no-one else is either.
I guess she’s using the site to re-establish her relevance. If she’s had an epiphany moment we’ll know soon enough.
In fact, Red Alert has had no posts from anyone BUT Curran since the leadership debate.
And the lack of comments just highlights one of the reasons she was always a terrible ICT/Open Government spokesperson – if you’re not in the blogosphere you won’t comment anyway, if you are you don’t want her to dox your info and threaten you with party censure.
Ah yes, the Dolores Umbridge of the Labour Party
“After the Second Wizarding War, she was sentenced to Azbakan for her crimes against Muggle-borns.”
@ q&a…it was dire..as was the nation..
..hard to believe..i know..but a new nadir reached..by both..
http://whoar.co.nz/2013/ed-qa-a-mini-review-i-could-bang-on-and-on-but-i-wont/
“..ed:..i could bang on about how wood and mutch doing a weekly roundup remind me so much of a shopping-channel presentation..
..i cd bang on about the blatant product-placement from edwards-the-younger..(i mean..why doesnât he just hang a fucken âfor-saleâ sign around his kneck..
..i could bang on about how distasteful it is that an ex-act mp..and now a paid pimp/lobbyist for big-pharma..
..is deemed to be a panelist whose word should be listened to..
..i cd bang on about how wood and mutch on john key sound like they are selling/promoting the latest kitchen-whizz gadget..their enthusiasms are both bubbling and relentless..
..i cd note how the third panelist..the editor of metro..spent the whole time looking like he was thinking..
..âw.t.f. am i doing here..?..with these hideous people..?â.”
(cont..)
phillip ure..
Restaurant Brands : KFC “We’re really pleased đ we’ve been able to reach an agreement with Unite Union to reinstate these roles” Tui with those tenderloins?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11131722
it is this fact that people are not tradeable commodities which the right get so very wrong
I worked all week for free?!
The horrifying, true story of $0 paychecks
Coming our way soon, courtesy of ACT and the National Party. If we’re st000-pid enough to reinstall them next year….
http://www.salon.com/2013/09/27/i_worked_all_week_for_free_the_horrifying_true_story_of_0_paychecks/
So if the current government is returned we will have criminal gangs breaking employment law and threatening people with deportation?
No, we have business people already doing that when they import and abuse foreign workers. National aren’t doing anything about it.
I read it twice and still failed to see which Govt or political party was failing to pay the workers. All I could see was a “Mister Clean Laundry and Cleaning Services” was obviously a dodgy employer. The more you stretch it the more likely it is to whack your arse when it breaks.
That isn’t how it works. The money from the illegal enterprise – in this case slave labour but it could just as easily be drug money or human trafficking – gets paid to a trust, let’s call it the Waitemata Trust, which then funnels money to a political party, let’s call it The National Party, and then the corrupt politicians enact legislation to order.
If the money can be laundered through a casino first, well then, even better.
+1
Ok, so we are talking about labourers, paying Union fees no doubt which go direct to the party and in an NZ example I guess that’s the Labour Party ?
No, not even close but I’m not surprised that you went to a great deal of effort to twist OAK’s words.
One for ‘the Alien anti-smoking Nazi’, just for the hell of it on a slow Sunday,
YES, i agree with you 1/2 of those who use tobacco products will die of some form of Cancer or Heart disease,
However, such figures are in actual fact actual Bullshit, as 1/2 of those who do not and have never smoked will also die of Heart Disease or some form of Cancer,
40% of deaths annually in New Zealand are caused by heart disease,
http://www.heartfoundation.org.nz/know-the-facts/statistics
29.4% of deaths annually in New Zealand are caused by cancers,
http://www.cancernz.org.nz/divisions/auckland/about/cancer-statistics
The total for deaths in both categories is 69.4% of deaths annually, take out the 20% of tobacco users from the statistics and pray tell me what got the other 49.4% NOT smoking perhaps,
SO, repeatedly saying that 50% of those who use tobacco products will die of cancer or heart disease while true becomes totally FALSE when you then attach the use of tobacco products to those deaths completely disregarding the FACTS that 49.4% of those who do not use tobacco products will also die of those same diseases…
Yes you are right. So what? You can’t use a washing machine, you live in a State house (laughing over the back fence), but you are a stats guru. Congrats. Don’t tell me you are a smoker too?
Right SSLands, we have established the fact that you don’t want to buy me, as per new National Party policy a brand spanking NEW washing machine,
That leaves you only my brand spanking NEW, as per new National Party policy, Fridge/Freezer to cough up for,
I am totally chuffed that YOU are going to be paying for this new appliance for me as dictated by Paula and Bill from Dipton,
Ha ha ha, excuse my mirth, but can you advise whether you will be paying for the agreed appliance to have left-ward or right-ish opening doors, Ha ha ha…
“I am totally chuffed that YOU are going to be paying for this new appliance for me”
Aren’t whiteware purchases still an advance on benefits and thus repayable?
If so, you’ll still be paying out of your weekly allowance, even at just five or ten dollars a week, just not getting charged interest.
And I chose not to have a washing machine for environmental reasons and go to the laundrette down the road instead.
The closing paragraph of this little gem of a comment from you is why i suspect you to be suffering from some form of congenital brain dysfunction,
Well the whole comment actually more or less proves there is something majorly wrong deep inside you nut,
What possible enviromental gain can there be by doing your washing at the laundromat down the street,
Think a little deeper about your comment on who pays for such whiteware should i take up the National Governments offer of ‘new’ whiteware for beneficiaries, if you take into consideration SSLands previous comments of Him being one of the few actual taxpayers in the economy you might possibly develop some small understanding of why i continue to ‘tease’ it over the subject, on more than one level…
“The closing paragraph of this little gem of a comment from you is why i suspect you to be suffering from some form of congenital brain dysfunction”
Consequently, your reply had me thinking the same thing, except I was inclined to use what a dullard or dimbo.
“What possible enviromental gain can there be by doing your washing at the laundromat down the street”
You mean like the real and material associated cost of manufacture and delivery of one less appliance to me etc, and by using and thus keeping in business a community facility that by remaining open stops hundreds of other people who don’t own machines from doing so or washing their clothes in a river.
I’m gonna call dullard đ
“you might possibly develop some small understanding”
Boasting about being a dole leech isn’t wise, even on a left wing site, even if to piss off right wingers.
If I were you I’d show some humility and not bring it up again, but then you may have a lot less pride than most, so do what you will.
Yes, exactly what i picked you for, a right wing loony masquerading as a lefty,
Your classic ”boasting about being a dole leech” tells us all that you think those on the dole,(not me), are just leeches,
You keep outing yourself as a wing-nut of SSLands caliber the more you comment despite your denials…
OK so you are on the dole, live in a state house (laughing over the back fence), you smoke, you don’t (or can’t) use a washing machine. So your only hope for survival is to cheer for Silent-T and pray for other peoples money to come your way.
You have no credibility.
Honestly, one can’t make this up. Like Ouroboros, the snake that eats itself, srylands is the tory who presents the most extreme parody of tory ignorance, making satire redundant.
“Silent-t” Hee hee, he said “vagina”! Giggle, snicker, snort! Poo, wees, bottoms! Ha ha!
And he uses the word “credibility”!
Pray for your money to come my way SSLands, no praying involved ha ha…
“Yes, exactly what i picked you for, a right wing loony masquerading as a lefty”
Yeah, nah, as the natives say. đ
“Think a little deeper about your comment on who pays for such whiteware should i take up the National Governments offer of ânewâ whiteware for beneficiaries, if you take into consideration SSLands previous comments of Him being one of the few actual taxpayers in the economy you might possibly develop some small understanding of why i continue to âteaseâ it over the subject, on more than one level⊔
ps
But the answer about the washing machine, laundrette and environmental concerns, was that okay? ‘Cause you seemed to have ignored it and just gone into insult mode… Again đ
Now take care, mate, and remember you can’t fu*k with a fu*ker without getting a little fu*ed up.
:wave:
A small brained chimp such as you giving every appearance of being does not to any extent ‘f**k me up’,
There is tho a danger that as i laugh at your denial of the simple fact that 50% of those who do not smoke will die of cancers and heart disease i take another puff,
Man laughing at you and smoking are definitely bad for my health…
You know I’m bang on the money, you just won’t ever bring yourself to admit it. Just think of those kids in poverty you’re willfully stealing from with every puff. I know I couldn’t do it, what with having a conscience and all.
From here on, I predict you’ll just get very personal and much more abusive than you already are at every turn, so save the readers (those poor readers) the effort and either ignore my comments from now on, or let it all out in one super fu*k you post and get it off your chest (no pun intended) (well, maybe a bit) once and for all. đ
“previous comments of Him being one of the few actual taxpayers in the economy”
and what the hell is this capitalised “Him” thing you always do? It is fucked up.
You don’t like ‘Him’, ok ok no need to shout, from now on you pus filled scab on the rump of society i will refer to you as ‘IT’,
Seriously tho SSLands, whats it like to run round thinking all beneficiaries are bludgers and voting National to ‘fix em’ only to have Paula and Bill from Dipton come up with a brand new plan to buy beneficiaries brand spanking new white ware,
Lolz go Paula way to spend SSLands tax dollars and give IT even more brain damage…
I’m not sure having to borrow more to purchase a new appliance is beneficial for all when quality second hand goods are available at cheaper prices, but if you’re not bothered about having a fiver deducted each week from your allowance for a much longer period, then all good.
I would prefer to be more in control of my finances and not be forced into a higher level of debt. Some families will struggle severely because of this forced policy.
You really are that THICK aren’t you Alien, you give the appearance of having half a brain but in reality deep down you are simply THICK,
i have already told you that i am using the new National Government policy that beneficiaries will now buy new white ware through WINZ as a small stick with which to poke the equally as THICK as you SSLands,
For your information, i have a perfectly good fridge/freezer and washing machine, they were ‘bought’ through WINZ under the old scheme 7 years ago and i see no need to replace them,
At the time i purchased the 2nd hand appliances through WINZ i repayed 13 dollars a week in total, as yet i havn’t met anyone that has bought through WINZ new appliances so i do not know the repayment costs but should imagine they would be pretty similar,
Christ i cannot imagine what it is like in the empty cavern of your dead head, i almost feel sorry for you…
“You really are that THICK arenât you Alien,”
No!
“i have already told you that i am using the new National Government policy that beneficiaries will now buy new white ware through WINZ as a small stick with which to poke the equally as THICK as you SSLands,”
And I have already said you should be boasting about being a dole leech.
Where’s your issue, seeing that’s what you’re doing, by admission, even if just to bait a right winger?
Seriously, given how you’ve been laid bare, you need a better line of attack than mental, brain ache and thicko, but I know you won’t get ‘it’, so I just đ
“And I chose not to have a washing machine for environmental reasons and go to the laundrette down the road instead”
That’s fucking different eh! Laundrettes don’t use the environment.
“You mean like the real and material associated cost of manufacture and delivery of one less appliance to me etc, and by using and thus keeping in business a community facility that by remaining open stops hundreds of other people who donât own machines from doing so or washing their clothes in a river.”
Just like people who don’t own cars but use busses and trains.
For you I will call fu*k nugget. đ
You only had one answer, confirm do laundrettes use the environment or not. EOFS.
Of course they do, nugget, but much much less so than making an extra 300 washing machines would for the people that use the laundry, so like people taking busses and trains is more beneficial to environment than owning or running their own cars, so is using a laundrette.
What bit didn’t you understand?
Lolz that heroic actor says it saves hundreds of people washing their clothes in the river, shouldn’t be too hard on it, there seems something very amiss upstairs with that one…
It basic common sense, and you don’t get it, so I must be the mental đ
Me personally not owning a washer has a real environmental saving in materials and associated costs.
Patronising a laundrette keeps it open, which if closed would mean all the people who use it wouldn’t be able to, and unless they washed their clothes in the river, many would get their own appliances, adding to the overall environmental costing.
And you claim you’re a greenie đ
And for those who live miles away from the nearest laundromat, drive there or catch the bus, really green that,
And you claim to have a brain…
I usually walk, because if you remember I wrote it was only down the road, but like your non point over smoker/non smoker deaths, those that drive there will still have their cars, yet now they’d have washing machines as well, with all the environmental costs incurred along the way to manufacture and get them inside their homes.
đ :bad12: đ
You usually walk? So direct fuel costs are replaced by shoe leather and heart-rate boosting (a less efficient carbon engine, that).
“You usually walk? So direct fuel costs are replaced by shoe leather and heart-rate boosting (a less efficient carbon engine, that).”
How lame was that?
Bet you wish you’d got to the delete button before the time ran out đ
The human body’s a chemical motor attached to legs instead of wheels. That’s why your heart rate increases when you exercise.
Ever wonder where an awful lot of fertilizer comes from?
“The human bodyâs a chemical motor attached to legs instead of wheels. Thatâs why your heart rate increases when you exercise.”
And you’re on an adult’ish’ website for grown ups, posting that my walking is a bad thing for the environment, or something, when smoking isn’t a bad thing despite all the money needed to treat smokers đ đ đ
I haven’t got the patience other posters have for sh*t like that, but really do see the humour.
As dark as the tar in the lungs of the stupid.
What about all the money spent keeping non-smokers alive?
Have fun spending my pension if I die early. Call it my gift to society.
Edit: it’s not the issues we care about that define us (look at sithlands claiming they try to increase welfare for people). It’s whether we choose to stop analysing the problem if the answers begin to displease us.
“What about all the money spent keeping non-smokers alive?”
You mean the ones who don’t play 50/50 with their lives, that have to struggle to get adequate healthcare through lack of funding? Got so much time for those poor fu*kers, it puts backers of smokers to shame.
“Have fun spending my pension if I die early. Call it my gift to society.”
As you say, no knowing if you wouldn’t have died early anyway, but I’m hoping you’d go quick, not only for the financial savings over and above possible pension payments, but because it’s a horrible way to go and a sad waste of human life.
The real gift, if you’ve procreated, will be, that your offspring are a tad more intelligent when it comes to self preservation v short term high.
Fingers and toes crossed for all concerned.
“Edit: itâs not the issues we care about that define us (look at sithlands claiming they try to increase welfare for people). Itâs whether we choose to stop analysing the problem if the answers begin to displease us.”
I’m not sure even you know what that means, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt for a change.
If more of ’em smoked, by your logic there’s be more money for healthcare, what with the pension savings and all. Selfish bastards.
So is dementia.
Quality vs quantity. I don’t judge nonsmokers, but they love to judge me.
“saying that 50% of those who use tobacco products will die of cancer or heart disease while true becomes totally FALSE” đ
Doesn’t affect the argument if non smokers die of cancer, heart disease and strokes, because if the money spent on treating smokers, and the cost to the country above and beyond the revenue garnered from the tobacco industry, wasn’t wasted on deliberate, slow suicide and was spent elsewhere, child poverty in NZ could be eradicated in an instant.
You can call me a nazi all you like, mate, even though I’m on record stating I don’t care if you (or anyone else) smoke, but as a tax paying smoker you’d still be an $800m+ burden on society, as a grow your own non tax payer, double dipping with free health care to boot, you’re a leech, a hypocrite and an enemy of the poor.
It really is this simple. Your free will to smoke costs others their lives through inadequate funding in the health service and keeps kiwi families, our kiwi children in poverty.
If you can puff on a ciggie while knowing this, then words much stronger than wilfully ignorant and nazi spring to my mind.
Yes good boy/girl Alien, dance upon the head of that pin for me, what i particularly liked in yesterday’s ranting from you was your grand piece of National Socialism where the naughty smokers dropping off the mortal coil early were skipping out early on being productive little robots,
You obviously tho have a head of a thickness unbeknown to humans until this point in their history,
If no-one ever picked up a cigarette in their lives the statistics say that 69.4% of them will still be killed every year by Heart disease or Cancers full stop,
Of course in the real world people do use tobacco products but seeing as the same amount of them would have contracted and died of those cancers and heart diseases whether they used or not there is in fact no extra cost over and above what the 49.4% of non-tobacco users who also die by exactly the same route cost the health budget and economy,
Simply put you Alien, have the same chances as a non-smoker of contracting and dying of heart disease or cancer as i, a smoker do,no more no less,the cost of any treatment and any further cost to the economy would be the same if we both got snuffed by that route,
The difference, those using tobacco products pay a far higher % of tax than you do…
Smoking these days is a reliable marker for low education levels, welfare dependency, State house tenants, and general stupidity. As an employer I refuse to employ smokers. Also try getting a date.
With you it is all becoming clearer.
As an employer, what a joke, you spend your day as the flunky to a little firm of tax lawyers counting other peoples money,
Getting a date??? lolz how old are you 90 or something,
Now back to the new fridge/freezer you are buying me courtesy of the new rules from your dear old National Party,
Silver or white??? and you still havn’t chosen the left or right handed door opening, speed it up you slow lazy sod, i have a WINZ appointment in the morning…
“i have a WINZ appointment in the morning⊔
That says it all really.
Lolz, speechless, SSland’s drivel is slowly choked off to a dribble by the small fact that it is the National Party that ‘IT’ voted for that is supplying beneficiaries brand new fridges and washing machines courtesy of poor old SSLand’s tax dollars,
Lolz, the Chinese manufacturers are producing nice single cab utes for the bargain basement price of 17 grand each, i have been busily lobbying Bill from Dipton to put them on the Bene’s shopping list as well…
More typical left rudeness. It is “srylands” not “SSlands” – and again more left vileness by referring to people as inanimate objects. Stalinist. Your behaviour and general manners are just shocking. Sadly for a large rabble of ill educated state housing tenants this is what New Zealand has come down to. Smoking, rude parasites. Plus they vote đ đ
I can assure you that any lobbying you did on Bill would go straight in the trash.
Horrible horrible man. You smoke, pay no tax, get a free house. It is scandalous. Typifies everything that is wrong with the country. Oh, the humanity.
Really takes the cake for Srylands to invoke humanity.
I have devoted my life to formulating policies to increase welfare, especially for the poor. I am insulted that you can state something so obviously wrong and disparaging.
dude, we neither know nor care who you think you are in real life.
Pretty much everything you propose here would end up increasing poverty and hardship were it applied, probably because you have no idea about the economy of people in NZ. If that’s what you propose in real life, quite frankly your self-description is delusional.
“I can assure you that any lobbying you did on Bill would go straight in the trash.”
Now we know. You are a minimum wage temp in Double Dipton’s office. That explains everything. As for the name, SSlands seems appropriate, even though you would probably have never passed the physical. SAlands with the fat Ernst Rohm is probably more appropriate, but you might think it was a reference to your AWB comrades.
Who the hell is Double Dipton?
You should spend a bit of time in NZ some time, Shitlands. Then you might learn a bit about our politics here.
“You are a minimum wage temp in Double Diptonâs office”
She/d have to live in NZ to work in Double Dipton’s office
“Who the hell is Double Dipton?”
Lolz lots… so s/he’s hasn’t lived in New Zealand, or paid attention since at least 2008.
So, what kicked off this re-education programme, srylands? Are you being forced to go home in the near future for the super, or something?
SSLANDS, you forgot the free fridge/freezer courtesy of the National Party you vote for,
Lolz that must really screw your little pea brain something terrible…
“More typical left rudeness. It is âsrylandsâ not âSSlandsâ
The cheek of the person calling Cunliffe a vagina.
More typical hypocrisy from the vile.
Srylands – I take it you completely reject Big Tobacco’s spurious shit about inalienable property rights as they fight plain packaging of tobacco products ?
Why do I assume so ? On the basis of your own words dear Srylands. Smokers must be discouraged. Any measure calculated to discourage them and concomitants, viz. “low education levels, welfare dependency, State house tenants, and general stupidity” must of course be encouraged. Even property rights must give way to this imperative.
Dear Srylands, if you do not positively support plain packaging and to hell with Big Tobacco then your own words make you the john who uses the prostitute then witheringly abuses her as a slut.
“As an employer…….”. Hahaha. I suspect your reality is that of the pathological delusionist locked downstairs in an Upstairs Downstairs Edwardian nightmare. Your incessant shrieking calculated to release you, to expunge your primal shame and your conviction of personal inadequacy.
But I only suspect as to that sorry state. I do however know, I just know you’re not the full quid. Again, on the basis of your own fool words Srylands.
I’ve called you out, as a smoker who doesn’t pay taxes, for what you are. No wonder you’re getting aggro, given how you like playing the left wing, voice of the common man hero on here.
What’s quite clear is that you will sacrifice others for your own gain. Last time I looked that wasn’t really a socialist trait. Shame on you, ‘comrade’.
Cost directly attributed to smoking in NZ $1.75b
All that cash could and should be spent on the needy and much more deserving, which it currently isn’t because of people like you.
Left wing smokers who go on about their principles, I shit ’em. đ đ
Fact remains it “doesnât affect the argument if non smokers die of cancer, heart disease and strokes, because if the money spent on treating smokers, and the cost to the country above and beyond the revenue garnered from the tobacco industry, wasnât wasted on deliberate, slow suicide and was spent elsewhere, child poverty in NZ could be eradicated in an instant.”
Aah the anti smoking Nazi bites back, your first paragraph, got any proof of this ‘playing the hero’ seems your congenital brain damage is worsening the more you comment,
Oh and your costs, what a load of shit, dreamed up as propaganda by your fellow ‘anti-smoking nazis over at smokefree, what they call esitmates, your false claims are then that taxation of tobacco doesn’t cover these ‘estimates’ of costs which from you is even stupider as you are operating off of 2006 figures,(like the retard you are),
You cannot escape the facts, they are in the statistics i provided in comment 9, it is irrelevant whether a person smokes or not 50% of those who smoke will die of heart disease and cancers, and 50% of those who DO NOT smoke will also die of cancers and heart disease…
You’re the broken record that keeps on spinning.
I’ve laid out my case, my opposition, if you like, to your apparent selfishness, greed, pig ignorance.
Sure, you may get a few fellow smokers back your stance, and lets face it, that can be one of the only reason why you’re continuing the insult assault – To reclaim social standing after being exposed as a bit of a left wing fraud. If it were a popularity contest I’d be fu*ked before I started, but it’s not, it’s about fact, so I’m happy to let it stand in the archives and let others judge for themselves.
:wave:
So says the Alien who calls the unemployed ”Leeches on the dole”…
đ
That’s just your twisted interpretation. What I said was YOU shouldn’t boast about being a dole leech, even on a left wing site, even if to piss off right wingers.
Absolutely nothing about the unemployed, in general, implied or otherwise. I have been on a benefit, and am always in total solidarity with those who through no fault of their own can’t find work.
Disingenuous of you, but not totally unexpected given your history đ
Smokers stink, are more likely than non smokers to be uneducated and left wing, to be unemployed and live in state houses. The only good thing about smoking is that it is a reliable marker for people to avoid. Seriously, smokers should not be permitted to vote unless they pay at least $50,000 in income tax annually. Stupid unemployed smokers are such a drain on society they should have zero say in deciding on who governs us.
SSLands never mind whatever’s eating in to what little remains of your sanity, it’s of no real interest to me and possibly anyone else what wing-nuts like you ‘think’,
Concentrate for a moment, the fridge/freezer you are buying me, silver or white???…
But! Those smokers (and I’m not one ) pay more taxes than you do.
Here’s an example :-: Stop all smoking, drinking (alcohol) and driving your car :-: for one week and this country is crippled.
If they want to smoke, that’s there choice.
Is “…there choice…”, just like “their choice” ?
“You should spend a bit of time in NZ some time, Shitlands. Then you might learn a bit about our politics here.”
“Our” politics?
Who made you guardian? You know nothing about New Zealand politics, or policies to promote prosperity.
and it is “srylands”. More typical vile rudeness from you too. No manners at all.
You’re a foreigner tasked with making pretences at right wing mumbo jumbo, but lack a Kiwi background to make it even vaguely realistic.
I hope they don’t pay you real money for doing this, because you’re really shit at it. Hence your name “Shitlands”.
BTW have you figured out who “Double Dipton” is yet?
Oh fuck Srylands…….abuse and defame all and sundry…….and stuff those snotty little bastards who should never’ve been born………the kids of the undeserving poor……..all that’s fine……..but please please…….no manners at all……….no no……..that’s just disgusting !
You really are not the full quid saddo Srylands !
TÄnÄ koe, The Al1en
It really is this simple. Your free will to smoke costs others their lives through inadequate funding in the health service and keeps kiwi families, our kiwi children in poverty.
I haven’t read such sanctimonious sermonising since being thrown out of Catholic School. The only reason poverty and child poverty exists in this country is because of government policy and not because smokers exist.
Smokers are no more a burden on the health system than the elderly, or children, or the obese, or rugby players. We all collectively pay for a health system that delivers to us the treatment that we require – when we require it. Your type of reasoning is judgemental and discriminatory and worthy of Paula Bennett herself – and she is no friend to the poor.
“Smokers are no more a burden on the health system than the elderly, or children, or the obese, or rugby players. ”
Like old people can chose not to be old đ
Check those figures, love. I didn’t make them up.
“The only reason poverty and child poverty exists in this country is because of government policy and not because smokers exist.”
And if there were extra millions in the kitty not being spent on self inflicted diseases, then the job becomes even easier, and much harder for nat governments to say they can’t afford it.
Do you smoke? Or is it just a bit of a sympathy bark?
You fundamentally misunderstand the nats. They’d cut taxes even lower to maintain the deficit and TINA argument.
Perhaps so, but tell me DS, sorry DC wouldn’t like to have an extra $850m to do something about the issue.
He’ll get it out of the pensions he won’t need to pay each year.
No, that’s not what the figures say, especially for the late middle aged smokers that don’t die for a while . Details on the site in the links above. đ
Although I could be confused about the last bit, ’cause all the numbers inflame my retardation inducing brain aching genetic noggin disorder. đ
Which links?
Oh, it was math you pulled out of your arse here.
Bunk for the reasons I stated above.
The links are in yesterdays open mike.
The only bunk is your agenda, dismissing a logical point based argument.
ah, so “links above” means “posted sometime previously, and that’s my pretence at evidence”.
The fact is that you figure only adds up if we assume all non-smokers die quickly with no palliative care or assisted living, and if we refuse to count unpaid pensions. And that’s just to come close. More ASH lies, as far as I’m concerned.
EDIT: Oh shit – you weren’t referring to the link to here, were you:
Yep, the assumption that non-smokers don’t get sick, and ignoring pension payments saved. And no sources to back it up. What a load of shit.
“ah, so âlinks aboveâ means âposted sometime previously, and thatâs my pretence at evidenceâ.”
If that’s how you chose to interpret, but it could just as easily be ‘I posted them this morning in the other thread and since I haven’t revisited it since, and made lots of replies here in todays topic, incorrectly assumed they were in this thread by mistake’
I wouldn’t sweat over it. It’s not like I’ve been caught out telling lies or even being passive aggressive or anything đ
“The fact is that you figure only adds up if we assume all non-smokers die quickly with no palliative care or assisted living, and if we refuse to count unpaid pensions. And thatâs just to come close. More ASH lies, as far as I’m concerned.”
It wasn’t ash I don’t think, but longer illnesses would only mean smokers can’t work and contribute tax and receive more health care and treatments, so I don’t know if that backs up your point or not. đ
“EDIT: Oh shit â you werenât referring to the link to here, were you:”
There’s a whole heap of them, that is one, yes.
That makes two of us, then. Some days I think some people confuse “passive aggressive” with “open contempt”, but don’t want to say so outright.
Length of illness would affect treatment costs, but the “can’t work” only affects those of working age. The real stumbling block is the pensions – assuming that one in two smokers don’t collect 12 or 15 years of pensions, there’s your claimed loss right there.
An oft-repeated number without a source is still without a source. Care to argue that pensions don’t count in the calculation? Or the suggestion that failing to account for non-smokers’ care is questionable math?
“That makes two of us, then. Some days I think some people confuse âpassive aggressiveâ with âopen contemptâ, but donât want to say so outright.”
No worries here, mate, ’cause you probably already know I think you’re mostly full of sh*t and how I’m not afraid to post what I think for fear of upsetting cliques.
Peer pressure also causes heart disease, probably. đ
“Length of illness would affect treatment costs, but the âcanât workâ only affects those of working age. The real stumbling block is the pensions â assuming that one in two smokers donât collect 12 or 15 years of pensions, thereâs your claimed loss right there.”
The clever bods have done the math and they say the cost to NZ through smoking is $1.75b. If you can link otherwise, go ahead and we’ll battle by accredited proxy, but until then it’s just your theory about retirement age v no doubt peer reviewed documents.
At this time I have to remind you about arse pulling facts and figures đ
“An oft-repeated number without a source is still without a source”
The documents I’ve linked to have sources at the bottom of the pages. From memory they include – Ministry of Health and World Health Organization among others.
Yep, I’m not exactly worked up about the issue, just kicking shit about. You say the links to costs have references, I can’t see them though. I suspect that what’s happened is that someone spitballed a guesstimate and it’s done the circuit ever since.
By your own arguments, the $1.7bil doesn’t include the $800-1bil in excise paid back, so it’s at best gross costs, not net incl revenue and savings. So unless you can drag up the source document, rather than a parrot, it still looks to me like smoking is, economically-speaking, a public service.
“So unless you can drag up the source document, rather than a parrot, it still looks to me like smoking is, economically-speaking, a public service.”
Nope, I’m going to bed because I’ve got work tomorrow.
I’m happy with my side of the debate and can’t see any credible argument put forward in opposition. My term of phrase has sometimes been provocative, but then not half as bad, and certainly much less insulting and nasty in tone as that directed my way. Some people it would seem have little comprehension of the arguments involved, some people do, but don’t want to accept it for what it means to their world view. That sadly is part of life, and is a reason why smokers, despite all the evidence, still cling on to their packets and pouches.
I’m not going to check this topic again, so if there’s any last words needed to be said by anyone, don’t post them here, I won’t see them. It will be a hollow victory, pyrrhic if you will. Best save it ’til next time you see me post elsewhere and spam an insult or barb my way. I’ll know what it’s about.
Love, as always, even to the haters đ
oh shit, it’s deadlight savings monday tomorrow, too. Night all đ
TÄna koe, Al1en
I have never smoked but that is beside the point. I come from a health background having worked many years both in tertiary and community based services.
Statistics can throw up all sorts or justifications to discriminate against people. I could pull statistics out of my non-obese arse to equally justify my stance. The greatest burden on the health system into the future is an aging population with its corresponding health requirements. We spend more money on aged care in comparison to childcare and it is not a health cost that is controllable under present policies. Superannuation is also a massive burden to the Welfare System.
But rather than follow your example and place a burden of shame onto the elderly for living well past their use by date, I would say, that as a country we have a duty of care to provide for all New Zealanders in their time of health need, regardless of how old, how fat, how sporty, how disabled, or how wheezy they might be.
The alternative is a health system that provides for no one as the economic argument is systemically used to deny more people access based on lifestyle choices – to have babies, to not have babies, to drink, to not drink, to play sport, to not play sport. Then again, a health system without clients / consumers / patients is very efficient economically.
An economic justification does not necessarily infer the right argument. Child poverty exists in this country because of successive Government policies. Child poverty disproportionally impacts on MÄori and Pasifika children and until Governments come to a true understanding behind that realisation than poverty will continue in this country.
Yeah yeah, already said we should care for smokers because we care, even for the divs who slowly kill themselves going against all medical advice because of their belligerence and weak wills.
Of course child poverty exists because of policy, and I’ve not argued that. What is it that makes some of you guys and gals see something written and think that must be the only reason or cause a person has to offer?
I’m not arguing that smoking cause poverty, well, unless in those households where kids go hungry but the adults puff away where it is indeed a factor, but do think money not spent on smoker illness could and would be better spent elsewhere. Where is the contention with that?
After NZ is smoke free, which it will be sooner rather than later, the country will be much better off not just health wise, but financially. Can’t come soon enough.
âAfter NZ is smoke free, which it will be sooner rather than later, the country will be much better off not just health wise, but financially. Canât come soon enough.â
2012 to 2013. $1.2 billion (1.197) aged care costs for residential care and home based care ( Cost of giving elderly daily assistance and accommodation.) Of this $269 million on home support services ($48 million more than in 2008/09) and DHBs purchased over 10 million hours of home support.
Currently 32,000 residents in aged residential care at a cost of $928 million for 2012/2013 year.
Dementia ( age related senility affecting most- smoker or non-smoker) -$44 million in Budget 2011 and $40 million in Budget 2012. And over the next four years another $12 million to be added. Budget 2013 included $1.2 million for dementia-related training for health care workers and $2 million for dementia awareness programmes and to help primary care professionals detect dementia early. NZ Aged Care Association conference 2013. J. Goodhew
The $1.2 billion excludes the medical health care costs for aged, âdisabilityâ subsidies of the aged and for those at home, added to the cost is their full pension entitlement along with the relevant subsidies/ supplements to an individualâs entitlements from WINZ e.gs. lawn mowing, accommodation supplement for those in rentals or mortgaged, dental costs, hardship grants. Projected is also that given there will be increasing numbers of elderly able to live at home, these at home assistance/subsidy costs will rise significantly-
So given the âboomâ babies are starting to impact on State costs for being aged, take this last yearâs annual costing of $ 1.2 billion for daily in home assistance and residential care alone what will the projections be for State costs in 20 years ? ( Include the % of 650,000 current smokers who give up under Smokefree targets).
Two thirds of NZ adults are obese- health costs (medical alone) are analysed in 2012 as being between 2% to nearly 8% of NZâs total State health spending. The health care costs included spending on GP visits, drugs, hospital care, laboratory tests, allied health care (such as podiatrists) and aged residential care. The percentage of the health $$$ spending is variable because of the range of health issues, medical conditions potentially aligned to obesity. E.g. costs of premature babies in NICU units as research unfolds how some premature births are being attributable to obesity.
Directly related to obesity Medical care in 2006 was estimated at $624 million. Loss of productivity is estimated at up to $250 million per annum.( Current figures to come as research unfolds more diseases related to obesity). Figures of costs do not include other costs such as Disability and Sickness Benefit for the reasons of obesity.
More recently estimated in NZ, costs for medical care are 4.4 % of total health budget for obesity. -Australian and New Zealand Journal of Public Health. Professor Boyd Swinburn. Dec 2012.
All cancers ( smokers and non-smokers) 2% of health spending. Diagnosing and treating cancer is set to increase more than 20 per cent by 2021. (technology and medicine, screening developments). Breast cancer, colorectal cancer and cancers of the lymph and blood, including leukaemia in that order costing the most from the health dollars for cancer. “Population growth and aging are the main reasons that the cost of cancer treatment is increasing” (http://www.moh.govt.nz/moh.nsf/indexmh/the-price-of-cancer MOH)
So if you donât smoke( smoking rates are declining) and donât become obese( obesity rates increasing), and not a mortal casualty of alcohol related deaths and nothing else but old age gets you ( over 65 and demographic population increasing of over 85 year olds),you too can be a puritan who sermonizes smokers from your electric lazyboy until your last breath is drawn (fresh breath of course and if age related senility lets you..) and by 2031 cost the State shit loads out of the health budget.
And woe is us….. whilst we are languishing in our aged care homes sucking on the health dollar instead of a cigarette for pleasure (because thereâs F*all else other than pureed dinners and talking to aliens) there will still be poor children!
P.S. Oh….And whilst I finish this night on stay over with the 95 year old mother-in-law and carry out her medical and body cares, ( lost productivity from my job this year with her and also from death of non-smoking sister from breast cancer at aged 49) your ” Canât come soon enough!” is in my mind, so very SMUG.
“Have whatever the F* your fun is people while you can, being very old will come soon enough!”
certainly Not just Another Sheep at all.
Hi TA, I neither smoke nor drink but have to say that in NZ the rate of smoking is negligible whereas the rate of drunkenness and hard drug taking (p etc) is at an enormous proportion. It is widely understood that the effects of too much alcohol will be presented in an insurmountable health bill. But that’s OK, cos its part of the culture, isn’t it? So for those who have a dozed stubbies every day in front of the TV with some take outs heavy on salt and fat its all good!
And as an employer I would be more worried of the unseen effects of the drink and drugs on the brain 8 hours later being in action at my business then a worker relieving their stress with a cigarette.
The social cost of drink must be huge. I’m happy to side with you in your crusade against problem drinkers. The numbers must be huge by comparison to smokers. You should post them for all to see.
edit. You have, further down the page. Good onya. Shocking numbers, aye.
“But thatâs OK, cos its part of the culture, isnât it?”
Is that rhetorical or directed at me? I say no, it’s not okay, but going by some attitudes here, I wouldn’t vouch for everyone.
My comments are rhetorical as these phrases are so often used for all sorts of scenarios where one know it has nothing to do with culture.
All the workplaces/businesses I have seen and worked in and on have had a far greater issue with drinks and drugs then smokers. When the finger hovers over the keyboard and the head hurts for hours, drugs cloud the judgement and ooppss …yes, that was close, only the toe this time etc…absentism, mood swings, aggressive behavior and so forth…I think unproductive is the word.
What a load of crap. If a non-smoker gets heart disease, it costs the same to treat as a smoker with heart disease. And if they don’t get cancer or heart disease, they’ll get something else that will eventually kill them – alzheimers, or something. Treatment costs are neutral, they’re just brought forward for half of smokers. Many of those years are pension years with lower mobility and higher care costs. So really, even if a smoker pays no excise tax, they probably on average save the country money.
By your logic, smokers are heroes who risk their lives to end child poverty.
You might not have “made up” those figures, but somebody did with selective economics. Quite frankly, it’s that sort of shit that keeps some people smoking out of general bloody-mindedness – if you get lied to, patronised, and ostracised, some people just say “fuck you, too” and dig in their heels.
If someone smokes out of bloody mindedness, they deserve all they get, but shouldn’t really expect the taxpayer to cover their idiocy. Even more so if they don’t pay tax on tobacco.
Don’t care you don’t agree. Most rational folk will see that the huge amount of money spent treating smokers would then be able to be spent elsewhere on people who don’t deliberately chose a 50/50 pathway to needing expensive care and treatment. Even hone gets it.
I would much rather the money was spent on kids shoes, warm homes, healthy food, adult education and things like obesity programs in carl jnr catchment areas.
If you can’t see the benefit of smokefree NZ and spending up elsewhere, what more can can I say?
Most rational folk will realise that most people will require years of treatment and palliative care before they die. Smokers are by no means exceptional in that regard.
@ bad 12 …you are allowed to have a smoke
( my Grandfather smoked all his life and enjoyed it ….and died at 84 with a cigarette out in the snow….his heart gave up…smoking probably killed his heart …but what the hell…there are worse things eg get drunk and drive…take P)
We should be taxing the cigarette companies for health care
“@ bad 12 âŠyou are allowed to have a smoke”
Sure he is, and nobody has said otherwise.
“We should be taxing the cigarette companies for health care”
We could, but on approximately $1.6 billion per year retail spending, tax revenue to the treasury is some $850m, and the cost of smoking is put at $1.75b, more than double the amount.
It would be easier to get ignorant, selfish fu*ks to stop altogether rather than get tobacco companies to pay $100m more than they actually sell.
“there are worse things eg get drunk and driveâŠtake P)”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10517995
“Hardcore drugs P, cocaine and Ecstasy gave New Zealand a bill of about $546 million for social costs in one financial year.
They are a big part of the total $1.3 billion that drug use cost the country in 2005 and 2006.”
Surprisingly still nearly half a billion less than for smoking, so I guess not much worse at all. đ
“Surprisingly still nearly half a billion less than for smoking, so I guess not much worse at all.”
Though the end figure for smoking might not be over one year like the hard drugs is quoted, so bear that in mind that it’s just a rough comparison, but still, the cost of smoking is extremely high.
The social cost has not been accounted for, the women who are abused, the children murdered, the after hour medical service at a stretch beyond belief on weekends etc… But hey, who wants to hear the truth when the half truth is so comforting.
http://www.alcohol.org.nz/research-resources/nz-statistics/alcohol-facts
Social costs
A 2009 study, applying a methodology endorsed by the World Health Organization, estimated harmful alcohol use cost New Zealand $4.9 billion in 2005/06 (Berl 2009). However, previous estimates have ranged from $735 million to $16.1 billion (Law Commission, 2009, p168).
“The social cost has not been accounted for”
Again I don’t know if that’s a response to me. If it is, I don’t know why ’cause I’ve not said or written anything like that.
“But hey, who wants to hear the truth when the half truth is so comforting.”
You should never keep quiet if you have something worth saying. Go for it.
Lolz Chooky, i plan on it, and 84 seems a pretty decent age to live to…
@bad 12 ….True story to lift the morale of Smokers:
A young girl following a mountain track by herself , went off the edge and fell down a waterfall at Arthur’s Pass …luckily for her she fell onto a very narrow ledge half-way down….but there was no way up or down …except death ….and hardly any room to move…but she managed to survive and stay calm until a helicopter was able to reach her next day. Her rescuers where very impressed with her survival and her coolness…
When asked how she kept her nerve , she said something like this : “Well I know smoking is not good for you…. and I know it is supposed to shorten your life…..But in my case it saved my life! ….because I just got out a packet of cigarettes and smoked them slowly and tried to concentrate on the view and think of other things ”
When I pointed this out to my brother who smokes ( and we all give him a hard time for this) …he immediately said “What brand does she smoke?”
đ
New LVR Regs ; cuts out 8000 first-home buyers, or, 15-20% of the market.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11130710
-save more money
-buy a more affordable home
-move to a more affordable region.
“-move to a more affordable region.”
and sign up for a welfare check.
-invest in the regional economies
Srylands @ 10.1 – what’s it like being debilitatingly frightened of the world and all its people not comprising the 1% ?
Crazymaking ?
I moved to a more affordable town some years ago after a relationship breakup and only owning half a house. When I went in to SW to sign on, the 13 year old behind a desk looked at me aghast when I said that I moved into the district and bought a house. She said “Who told you that it was OK to buy a house”. She didn’t like my reply that I didn’t know I had to have her permission.
I’ve had “interesting” experiences with WINZ. The most competent and compassionate have been middle-aged Maori and Pasifika women who’ve obviously seen real life. They haven’t always given me what I wanted, but they were good, knew their job and acted professionally. The worst have been the adolescent pimple farms, knowing that their job now was to both deny benefits and get people off the lists so that the statistics looked good and above all, eager to kiss Bennett’s butt.
What’s wrong with the young these days? They aren’t rebels, they’re frightened arse-kissers.
Of course, that’s what the NACTs want everyone to be.
US Debt Ceiling
http://www.ibtimes.com/236-industry-groups-beg-congress-fund-government-raise-debt-limit-1412138
(good thing the yanks have a space programme).
“Monsanto Protection Act” uprooted
http://www.ibtimes.com/monsanto-protection-act-killed-senate-controversial-provision-removed-spending-bill-1412160
What the hell has that got to do with the US’s debt ceiling?
the debt is rocketing out of reach. always so sensitive to intergalactic issues D.
Having a space program has nothing to do with debt. The debt is a result of the way that money is created by the private banks with interest. Change that and no country will ever be in debt again. Even NZ could easily afford a space program if we changed the financial system.
Of course, something so simple will be hard to do due to the private banks doing all they can to prevent the eradication of their power.
Hmm, debt ceiling.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/shouts/2013/09/steve-israel-debt-ceiling-parody.html?
smiled đ (which is an easy expression to maintain; defacto Grandfather day, today. đ
And Hooters is still ranting, but when you read this:
‘Green/Labour is now well ahead of National in the polls, with the left-wing combination now on a combined 50% and National struggling on 39%, according to a secret but widely leaked UMR poll. That means the election is Mr Cunliffeâs to lose. One of the most likely ways he will lose it is if he continues to exaggerate his own background, contributions and talents. Others can and do get away with it. Likely prime ministers canât.’
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/david-bites-back-ck-146481#nzpol
…you can see the reason for the huge butthurt.
Yep, Hoots is hilarious, isn’t he? He’s like a five year old child who thought he was the biggest bully in the playground and then met someone bigger, so he’s still pretending without actually challenging.
The swivel-eyed loon cannot accept that other people assign a looser meaning “helped with the formation of Fonterra” than he does.
Is the desperado (Sell my Grandmother If I Have to) English, now selling off Landcorp in pieces to meet his Surplus budget? Was Landcorp on the asset sale plan of National?
Landcorp Farming Limited is offering Ngapouri Station for sale. http://www.realestate.co.nz/2127067
@ Rhino – the worst were ekshly PB’s offspring during her slutting days. Now (as DC so aptly puts it – she’s pulled up the ladder) … you know the rest. Her best defense will be something along the lines of ‘party loyalty’.
Might be 2014, might be 2017 – but there goes an uber-ugly specimen that’ll be pushing shit uphill before too long.
But yes …. protest, difference in any form – other than the trendy in vogue – became very unfashionable for a while there. Thank Christ the tide is turning. It’s EKSHLY an unstoppable force. I used to wonder why the uni students whose essay attempts I used to mark weren’t that engaged. Answer: pretty much came down to DEBT and the desire to have a few boxes ticked.
Neo-liberalism – the ideology you have when you can’t think of anything else!
I’m keeping secret my solution to the Sky TV monopoly (for example) – having just done some dish installation and a ‘blind scan’ – but it would sure as hell wipe out their monopoly in OFS.
Quite simply though … legally and otherwise …. surely anything that originates in unencrypted format was intended for wide viewing/listenership and wasn’t designed for middlemen to come along and clip the ticket.
(shhhhhh! )
Let ’em all wallow in the realisation they cudda shudda wudda – and that’s even BEFORE we even start doing what’s done elsewhere (such as pay TV being levied to support PSB)
But one example
Government Report Offers More Evidence Cannabis is a Wonder Drug for Cancer and Good Health
âOne study in mice and rats suggested that cannabinoids may have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors.â They continue; âCannabinoids may cause antitumor effects by various mechanisms, including induction of cell death, inhibition of cell growth, and inhibition of tumor angiogenesis invasion and metastasis. One review summarizes the molecular mechanisms of action of cannabinoids as antitumor agents. Cannabinoids appear to kill tumor cells but do not affect their nontransformed counterparts and may even protect them from cell death.â
http://www.riseearth.com/2013/09/government-report-offers-more-evidence.html
http://www.ted.com/talks/james_flynn_why_our_iq_levels_are_higher_than_our_grandparents.html
For Draco, if he’s still up. Our own Jim Flynn. The political message starts about two thirds in.
A good man. And smart – I thought I’d work ahead so read The Republic in the summer holidays before doing his Pols 101 paper, that was amazed that we’d allegedly read the same book. Although I used the same copy in the course, I must have been reading the “Baby’s First Political Philosophy” supplement at the back all summer đ
I watched that myself last night. Wish I’d heard him talk in person, but have only read him previously. Those TED talks are quite inspirational, if somewhat compulsive viewing.
After decades in exile and dictatorship, some people have courage and go home, and ILLAPU are one of the best, most original, most loyal ones to their country. So how many “Kiwis” ever were forced into “exile” to “fight”? You guys are mostly too busy fighting each other but FIGHT for progress and the lesser in your country. WAKE UP and take a bloody stand, thanks, I will fight, and I have been in your shit police cells and worse, where the hell are you, KIWIS? Any GUTS???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8y_0y-cT5g