Open mike 31/10/2023

26 comments on “Open mike 31/10/2023 ”

• Comments are now closed

1. SPC 1

   31 October 2023 at 6:18 am

   For decades, the union has negotiated similar contracts with all three automakers, a method known as pattern bargaining. Like the contract it hammered out with Ford and Stellantis, the tentative G.M. deal would lift the top U.A.W. wage from $32 an hour to more than $40 over four and a half years. That would allow employees working 40 hours a week to earn about $84,000 a year.

   https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/business/economy/gm-uaw-contract-deal.html?unlocked_article_code=1.6kw.fRUj.ct5O0MrYFgrF&smid=url-share
2. Dennis Frank 2

   31 October 2023 at 8:23 am

   So

   there is a circumstantial relativity to the very idea of Left and Right. Devotees on both sides dislike this fact. They usually deny it. For them, there is some essential content residing in the concept of the Left.

   They contend that it is an ideology with roots. Therefore, they believe, it constitutes a tradition. But when did this supposed tradition begin?

   We know the spatial metaphor derives from the period of the Legislative Assembly in Revolutionary France. Looking back, actually both sides (Left and Right) had merit.

   Seeing merit on both sides of a polarity requires a balanced, dispassionate view. Partisans, by definition, are incapable of that.

   Dispassionate commentators do not need the crutch of Left and Right. Their job is to study and describe processes impartially. For example, at least in principle, academics are not required to locate themselves, or their subject-matter, along some imaginary spectrum. One would hope the same would apply to journalists. On the other hand, politicians are openly obliged to display their colours. They need to appeal to partisan sensibilities by compartmentalising positions into good and bad.

   Although the rhetoric is outwardly universalist, the orientation is nearly always sectarian. In fact, the determination to capture and purify the Left is a symptom of this narrow partisanship. On average, Left particularism assumes that virtue resides in just half of the population. This refers to that portion which votes in the preferred way.

   In certain constituencies, for example in universities, that cohort shrinks to less than 20%: only this faction is “truly” Left. Since this proportion can never constitute a real electoral force, it must make up for its lack of power with the intensity of its beliefs.

   https://unherd.com/2023/10/where-is-the-left-today/

   Thus the shrill incoherent diatribe of the ideologically-fixated academic moron, plus groupthink. When such rocks are encountered mid-stream, the people flow around them.
   • SPC 2.1

     31 October 2023 at 8:48 am

     Yeah OK, so the reason why we have no estate tax or wealth tax or windfall profits tax on banks and supermarkets (cartels in general) etc (despite support in polls) is that our Labour is not left and so does not want to offend those of the other 50% on the right.

     How well did that go.
     • Dennis Frank 2.1.1

       31 October 2023 at 9:08 am

       I acquired a political consciousness amidst generational rebellion so separating the ephemeral from the substantial isn't easy for me but I do recall vividly the egalitarian ethos prevailing here at the time. Does it translate into a useful formula for today?

       Social equity seems the root concept – usually advocated as equal opportunity by rightists, which always struck me as valid but insufficient. Waiting for the left to elucidate a positive alternative didn't work – apparently due to them not seeing any need to provide it (perhaps there's a better explanation lurking in the collective subconscious). Pragmatists would argue for the same old shit (trickle-down) with the tap adjusted a half-turn in the direction of open.

       Hipkins may stand down, but better for Labour to try for a long-term fix: symbiosis with the Greens. That would require them to get real about the lower class. If they did produce a formula for uplift, to replace the entrenchment of status quo, it would be regenerative for them.
       • SPC 2.1.1.1

         31 October 2023 at 9:59 am

         Sure, what Labour did not get was that while the battle was in the middle class centre, the way to win was to proffer a compelling narrative.

         One which could be supported by their own support base, younger voters and a fair share of the middle class.

         A commitment to restore the expectation of the egalitarian society we once were, that incomes would be sufficient to rent and then to own homes. And there would be public housing for those unable to work, or without home ownership in old age.

         Then a wealth tax (later becoming an estate tax), windfall profit taxes (and maybe a 5% stamp duty on homes over $2M bought by Kiwis), a 3% pa rent increase cap, FPA industry awards and increasing the MW to a LW level are part of enabling that sort of society.

         Then the government and the worker both had the income to make it so.

         With the mortgage deductability against rent income limited to new builds and government aid to workers to help them buy (existing) homes, there was a path to return us to the "way we were" rather than become a society divided between 50% owning and 50% not owning and Kiwis leaving to Oz to be replaced by migrant workers.

         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate

         And our figures are going to be below 50% once boomers "leave".
3. Dennis Frank 3

   31 October 2023 at 8:50 am

   The spectre of mass culling of humanity looms – yet distantly from us here:

   the wealthiest 16% of humanity is responsible for 74% of excess energy and material use. This reflects a crisis of human behaviour. It is the outcome of many individual choices involving resource acquisition, wastefulness and accumulation of wealth and status.

   Some of these choices may have served humans well in the evolutionary past. In a modern global economy, however, they become maladaptive behaviours that threaten all complex life on Earth.

   https://theconversation.com/slow-solutions-to-fast-moving-ecological-crises-wont-work-changing-basic-human-behaviours-must-come-first-215055

   Addiction to neoliberalism has produced this outcome – but we know Labour & National voters lack the cerebral capacity to integrate the realisation. They've just voted for yet more of the same old shit. Several commentators onsite here keep signalling that they are unable to see the big picture.

   Logically, the same behavioural strategies that fuelled consumerism can do the reverse and create the necessary desire for a stable state.

   Things have to get sufficiently worse until a critical mass becomes desperate – usually measured at around 20% of the populace, but a tough govt can keep the lid jammed down on the pressure-cooker to ramp that up to 30/40%. Such escalation produces random violence in all directions, govts unable to build prisons fast enough…
4. alwyn 4

   31 October 2023 at 10:02 am

   I see that the Green Party winner in Wellington Central will be resigning from the WCC, thereby leading to a by-election for the Council to get a replacement. This is estimated to be a cost to the ratepayers of about $120,000.

   I wonder if Muttonbird, who wanted the ACT Party to pay the cost of the Port Waikato by-election because it was caused by the death of their candidate, will be demanding that the Green Party should have to pay for the by election to replace Ms Paul?

   "ACT already costing the taxpayer c. $1.2 million for a by-election. I wonder what they will cut to offset this cost imposed by their candidate? Perhaps ACT should be made to pay for the by-election from their own campaign funds…"

   https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10-10-2023/#comment-1971757

   What say you Muttonbird?
   • Mike the Lefty 4.1

     31 October 2023 at 10:32 am

     I would like to see a provision in the electoral ACT that compels a constituent MP who resigns his/her seat and then stands in the subsequent by-election have to pay all or a fixed proportion of the cost of the by-election.

     That would put a brake on types who want to politically posture at the taxpayers' expense.

     But what scares me most is the prospect that such by-elections could end up as postal voting – which I deplore – in the interests of saving money.

     The other thing I would like, and I gave a submission to the recent Electoral Review on this, is that if any list MP who stands in a by-election should have to first resign their list seat. This is to stop the rubbish of so many by-elections being a vehicle for high profile list MPs a chance to score an electorate with no risk to their present list status if they fail. Recirculation rather than fresh air.
   • Bearded Git 4.2

     31 October 2023 at 10:33 am

     I can see it gets up your nose that the Greens won Wellington Central Alwyn.

     The byelection will cost about 57 cents for every person in Wellington…worth every cent IMHO.
     • alwyn 4.2.1

       31 October 2023 at 12:06 pm

       I don't have any objection to paying for by-elections. In the case of Paul, who has become the MP in the electorate where I happen to reside, I am only to happy to have her off the Council. There her ridiculous extravagance means I have to directly pay for the follies she promotes.

       As a back bench MP for a party that is largely irrelevant and almost certainly is going to have no power for the next nine years whilst they are in Opposition she can't do nearly as much damage as she was doing as a councillor.

       I am however still curious to see whether Muttonbird holds the views he/she displayed when it was an ACT, rather than a Green, representative involved.
       • Bearded Git 4.2.1.1

         31 October 2023 at 3:52 pm

         Luxon has the ability to be the first one-term PM since Walter Nash, who was elected in 1957.
         • alwyn 4.2.1.1.1

           31 October 2023 at 7:04 pm

           Dreams are free I suppose.

           National Government have never had less than three consecutive terms. They have been 3, 4, 3, 3 and 3 terms.
           In the same time (since 1949) Labour have had 1, 1, 2, 3 and 2 terms Governments.
           • Chris76 4.2.1.1.1.1

             31 October 2023 at 8:38 pm

             It seems to me you are either dreaming yourself (ironically) or trolling. Maybe you should go to Kiwiblog instead of here.

             Previous electoral successes are no guarantee of future as any student of political science would point out.

             National-Act party 2023 win was a narrow one, narrower than 2008 Key victory. The current NatAct will probably have to depend on Winston Peters, a loose cannon, to govern. Apart from Ardern labour, no political party that has formed coalition with him was re elected at the following election and Ardern exception may have had to do with covid pandemic.

             The national party have promised to achieve better outcomes with less funds (they intend to slash government spending), a very tall order. According to economist Shamubeel Eaquab they've set themselves up to fail and could face the "reckoning" at the next election as labour did this year's election. Personally, I think they likely will face such a reckoning if the economy is in the same or worse state by the time of the next election, which is certainly a possibility given global factors.
             • alwyn …

               31 October 2023 at 11:41 pm

               Do you really want a narrow victory?

               Try 1957. Labour got a 41/39 majority in an 80 seat Parliament. In those days the Speaker could not vote so after appointing a Speaker they were on a 40/39 knife edge.

               They couldn't appoint a High Commissioner in Landon as traditionally it was chosen from the MP ranks and they didn't dare have a by-election. When the National appointed High commissioner returned to New Zealand they had people acting in the role for the next 3 years.

               Luckily none of the MPs died so they survived the whole term with an effective 1 seat majority.

               Now that was a close majority.
5. ianmac 5

   31 October 2023 at 10:05 am

   https://nickrockel.substack.com/p/the-day-of-the-dead

   A charming satire from Nick Rockel on the sidebar. Agreat read.

   The messenger.

   Shayne Currie, editor of the NZ Herald, stood in front of the team for his usual Monday morning briefing.

   “Right team it's time for a new tune, we’ve sung all 27 verses of the sky is falling, now the election is over it’s time for a new number. One that says everything will be alright. Focus on how great things are now National are back in their rightful place……
   • Patricia Bremner 5.1

     31 October 2023 at 10:34 am

     Nick always has an interesting and original take on events ianmac. Subscribing to Nick's Korero has been a good move.
6. newsense 6

   31 October 2023 at 10:16 am

   I wonder if Luxon could tack left as PM?

   We’ve seen evil things up front in their manifesto. We’ve seen tub thumping and rallying calls that translate to virtue signaling rubbish policy.

   You wonder if Luxon were to take seriously bringing the duopolies to heel and retaining fair pay agreements with some modifications, he would almost certainly lock in three terms and his legacy.

   Housing seems very bad. I’m sure soon we’ll see someone refloat the idea of minimum standards being reduced to the human sow crates Bill English mulled over once. Because immigrants are used to them.

   Climate change is a mess. However, here again if he works with the Greens and achieves more than his party’s pathetic non-commitment, he could blunt the major political attack and also help move the right out of their Canute like postures.

   Luxon has an opportunity to be a leader for everyone and to be a significant Prime Minister.

   Key tacked left in a token way prior to election, emphasising his back story. He wasn’t aggressively punitive to left causes, though he was no friend either. In government he really tried not to do much to get anyone’s pulse racing.

   Luxon has a more aggressive manifesto than Key. Backers, particularly in real estate which obviously includes Luxon himself, benefit. Could Luxon see the opportunity to make structural change in the economy, real transformative change, which might put some allies nose in a snook, but be both moral and yet still crafty politics?
   • Bearded Git 6.1

     31 October 2023 at 10:49 am

     Pigs Can Fly….Earth Is Flat….Luxon Tacks Left
     • Barfly 6.1.1

       31 October 2023 at 3:34 pm

       
   • satty 6.2

     31 October 2023 at 10:54 am

     I really doubt Luxon and the National (Polluter) Party will do anything to water down their and coalition partners' pro-pollution policies, mainly around farming and "individual transport", any time soon.

     Looks like the "net-zero" greenhouse gas emissions year is coming faster and faster (now we're talking 2034 not 2050): Guardian – Climate crisis: carbon emissions budget is now tiny

     Not sure how Nationals main supporters will react when the party is telling them (nanny-state-style), they can't use their recently purchased polluting ute-toys anymore or the dairy farmers have to cull their herds.

     They probably hope other nations give up on those targets soon, for example UK, and they can strongly follow their lead.
   • AB 6.3

     31 October 2023 at 11:14 am

     Doubt it. In the Nat worldview, all good things must flow from the "strong economy", which is code for letting business do pretty much as it likes to increase profitability with the state smoothing its path. When an idea is both genuinely believed and very profitable, it is overwhelming powerful. And Luxon's a true believer. All our biggest problems are likely to get worse during what will in time be called "the great postponement".
   • Corey 6.4

     31 October 2023 at 2:19 pm

     Heh

     Doing anything, literally anything on any of those things would make National more left wing than Labour (wouldn't be the first time, Labour was the right wing party in the 87 election, economically)

     If Labour won't with a majority national won't with three party coalition funded by real estate pimps, landlords, supermarket owners, farmers, chinese expats and the god squad.

     On housing they'll slow down construction even less than Labour, sell off state houses to private charities and inflict hyper immigration rates that'll put pressure on all our infrastructure and keep wages down and rents up

     On supermarkets they'll get rid of the pathetic toothless reforms Labour initiated

     On the environment… Ha… Theyll let farmers destroy our rivers to make their low quality milk powder.

     In 9 years Labour (if they still exist) will get elected and spend 3-6 years focusing on internal bureaucratic management and not improve the capacity of the state at all and then national will get reelected and reduce the capacity of the state 50% from what it is now, the left will get elected, do nothing, national will get elected and reduce the state to 75% of what it is now, Labour will get reelected, do nothing…. Round and round.

     It's a race to the bottom!
7. Patricia Bremner 7

   31 October 2023 at 10:57 am

   Newsense, Luxon who purports to "love" people as a reason for diminishing their piece of the pie is of the old school workhouse ethic. Proof is removing 2 billion off benefits over the next 3 years through reverting to the CPI rather than Wage rises.

   He loves only those who are like himself. Understand that. He will use anyone to further his position, hence all the glad handing and "chats" with reporters. Now it appears he has won, silence and removal of talks to a secret venue in Auckland, with reporters ignored.

   That is how his democracy will work. imo Back room chats with the "Big Boys" the order of the day. Nick's Korero is a satire of this with news now being "pieces" given to selected reporters.
   • AB 7.1

     31 October 2023 at 11:19 am

     "Love seeketh only self to please, To bind another to its delight, Joys in another's loss of ease, And builds a Hell in Heaven's despite."

     Luxo forgot the first half of Blake's sweet but incendiary little lyric
8. adam 8

   31 October 2023 at 4:32 pm

   I'm running with our middle class journalists have no spine, they gobbled up whaleoils spin.

   How much gob shit they going to take these new Tory days I wonder?

   Glad Guy Williams asked Luxton if he believed in Dinosaurs. Now we need to question Luxton on his theology more. Lets make sure he is not beholden to Christian nationalism. That would be a worry. And make sure he is not besotted by Prosperity theology. That would be worse.

   https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2021/february-web-only/what-is-christian-nationalism.html
9. adam 9

   31 October 2023 at 4:40 pm

   Heretic speaks.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/bishop-brian-tamaki-hits-out-at-gay-community/NGJWV4KCKIMSXR754BUJ2FDKYI/

   Must loss tax status on this Heresy please Mr Luxton. As a fellow Christian I implore you to act. Can't have people getting tax breaks who think they now speak for God. I'm not seeing much holiness in his hate. Nor much holiness in his other works, bits and pieces. But is it enough?

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS