Peter Jackson – “Satan’s Little Helper”

113 comments on “Peter Jackson – “Satan’s Little Helper” ”

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1. Craig Glen Eden 1

   29 December 2011 at 5:12 pm

   Im not sure about him being Satans little helper but, I think anyone who is as greedy as Jackson and who actively lies in order to drive employees wages down does deserve The Evil Bastard tag.
   • Populuxe1 1.1

     29 December 2011 at 5:27 pm

     That and he keeps raping my small nostalgic childhood pleasures for profit. LOTR, hobbit, Tintin – he’s Satan in my mind.
     • Vicky32 1.1.1

       30 December 2011 at 7:58 pm

       That and he keeps raping my small nostalgic childhood pleasures for profit. LOTR, hobbit, Tintin

       Pretty much agreed! 🙂
2. CnrJoe 2

   29 December 2011 at 5:52 pm

   The mans a creative wrecking ball – turning Aotearoa/ New Zild into a backlot of Hollywood without the long established industry unions. Wanker
   • sunshine 2.1

     29 December 2011 at 6:23 pm

     There are no long established unions for VFX artists. There are no unions at all. Now, why is the film industry suddenly wanting to do everything in 3D? Hmm…..
3. Lanthanide 3

   29 December 2011 at 6:26 pm

   ” even though the books had strong Christian undertones (good vs evil; Christians vs Atheists) but Jackson being the self-proclaimed Atheist he is obviously doesn’t want to present this movie in the way it was meant by Tolkien.””

   I’d like to know specifically what it is that Jackson has done that warrants this statement? What, specifically, in the LotR movies has he done to present it in some other way than “it was meant by Tolkien”?
   • Populuxe1 3.1

     29 December 2011 at 7:27 pm

     Or indeed what “Christian undertones”? Pagan Norse and Celtic undertones would be more accurate – Tolkien was trying to re-create a sort of lost Anglo-Saxon mythology. Jackson picked up on it and rolled it over the top of the New Zealand landscape (and the associated Maori mythology), which is why a certain kind of volkisch Pakeha populist gets all brown-shirtish about it. Instant Pakeha Ring Cycle / dreamtime origin mythopoeia to anchor us/them in the landscape.
4. Roy 4

   29 December 2011 at 7:25 pm

   I thought the LOTR movies were a lot less tedious than the books. Which isn’t to say the movies were not tedious. They were very tedious, unless the viewer made a game of spotting phallic symbols and symbols of misogyny. If I had made a drinking game of that, I would have died of acute alcohol poisoning.
   The Tintin movie was actually very well done, but I attribute that to Spielberg. I still think Jackson is a greedy wanker and his anti-unionism is contemptible.
   • Populuxe1 4.1

     29 December 2011 at 7:34 pm

     Nah, it’s not Tintin – there’s nothing of Herge in that bastard uncanny-valley monstrosity. Two populist fanboys, Jackson and Spielberg, have joined forces to ruin a clever, subtle work of genius and turn it into Hollywood pabalum. When Jackson was still constrained by tight budgets he exhibited genuine brilliance, but post Heavenly creatures when he more or less could indulge himself to the full, it all turned to crap. Hollywood has this idiot-savant quality: sometimes in can play Mozart or recite Pi to the three-hundreth decimal place, but most of the time it can’t even tie its own shoelaces.
5. Bored 5

   29 December 2011 at 8:30 pm

   I dont give a monkeys for any religious argument against St Peter J, I do however have a major political argument…the fekker took tax payer funds to start then right royally screwed the same tax payer over to fund this movie. Concurrently he and his toady Taylor ran anti union marches, helped Warner Bros twist the arm of (weak as piss) Jonkey to get anti worker legislation passed and get more cash for the same studios.

   Any movie St Peter has even the remotest link to is on my personal avoid list, my cash in any form will not willingly wing its way to that disgusting creep.
   • Tigger 5.1

     30 December 2011 at 3:45 pm

     I’m with you bored. Sir Peter (had to accept that archaic knighthood, didn’t you Pete?) was never the jolly do-gooder of his PR image. Anyone fancy petitioning the Writers Guild of America to get him tossed on grounds off anti unionism?  They make too much money from him to do it of course but anyone who is so anti union shouldn’t benefit from their collective agreements.
     • M 5.1.1

       30 December 2011 at 5:19 pm

       Bored, Tigger agree with all you have said.

       Got into a spirited debate with a friend who took her kids to Jackson’s theatre in Miramar and was nearly dry retching when she said that he’d revitalised the local economy.

       When I said that it was probably afforded off workers’ backs and that I had nothing but contempt for him and Key who willingly got down on their knees for a studio the lameness of the defence was astonishing.

       In the end I said that I would never knowingly view any films connected with him again, that I thought he was overrated anyway and that I couldn’t brook relativism where workers were concerned, kinda like being a little bit dishonest or a little bit pregnant – you’re either honest or you’re not; pregnant or you’re not.
6. Mbossa 6

   29 December 2011 at 8:32 pm

   If there’s gonna be another rapture in two days’ time, why the hell are they so worried about that film?
   • mac1 6.1

     30 December 2011 at 10:35 am

     Oh, the irony in “another rapture!” 🙂
7. chris73 7

   29 December 2011 at 9:41 pm

   Awesome, even more free publicity for the movie. Do these groups just not get it? The more they complain the more people will go to see it.

   So looking forward to this, the lord of the rings trilogy was great and I expect this to be as entertaining. Even if evil trolls and orcs did try to scupper the project.
   • McFlock 7.1

     29 December 2011 at 10:05 pm

     I suspect that when it comes to more fringe groups, the act of public protest and boycott has outcomes beyond using commercial leverage to harm the project.
       
     For midrange groups like greenpeace, it seems to me to be about, at best, “consciousness raising”, and at worst it’s a fundraiser – look at what we can do so you’ll give to the street collector.
       
     For nutbar fringe groups, the public act of boycott reinforces the ties within the group and their alienation from a larger, ignorant/damned society.
       
     As for Jackson’s movies, I’ve been going off them lately – not just the political thing, but I watched king kong with one side of me just tagging the large number of scenes that were thrown in there for the console game. Stopped the movie from being truly great, imo. There were also a few in the RotK that put the merchandising in the way of the story and the action. But that’s just my opinion.
     • Lanthanide 7.1.1

       29 December 2011 at 11:17 pm

       I went and saw FotR and TTT twice at the movies, but only saw RotK once (and haven’t seen it since). RotK really bored me for some reason. I absolutely love Heavenly Creatures, one of my favourite movies, but otherwise not that impressed by PJ.
8. ultra-left sectarian 8

   29 December 2011 at 11:40 pm

   Tolkien as the enemy of the working class:
   http://readingthemaps.blogspot.com/2006/11/against-tolkien.html

   And LOTR’s role in the neo-liberal recomposition of NZ identity:
   http://readingthemaps.blogspot.com/2008/05/ripping-off-brands-rough-guide-to-anti.html
9. ropata 9

   30 December 2011 at 1:53 am

   Read The Last Ringbearer.

   That is all.
10. The Voice of Reason 10

    30 December 2011 at 9:30 am

    Tintin has flopped in the States, picking up numbers that are only a third of the tickets sold to the latest iteration of the Mission Impossible franchise and even behind the remake of The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo. Perhaps the yanks are waking up to what a colossal bore Jackson’s films actually turn out to be?
    • chris73 10.1

      30 December 2011 at 10:18 am

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Tintin_%28film%29

      You’ll note its box office is nearly double its budget, its garned mainly positive reviews (the latest empire gives it 4 stars), its number 5 on your list and its almost certainly going to smash records in Europe.

      Oh and this is Spielbergs movie not Sir Peter Jacksons, hes only one of the producers but he is directing the sequal.

      Do you actually watch movies?
      • Colonial Viper 10.1.1

        30 December 2011 at 10:24 am

        Tintin has been a flop in the US, but has done very well internationally (which makes sense as Tintin is better known around the world compared than in the USA).
        • chris73 10.1.1.1

          30 December 2011 at 10:39 am

          This is true but how is it a flop? I mean its up against a series which has done over 1.6 billion in world sales (MI4), a sequal in which the first movie did over 500 million (sherlock holmes) and the adaptation of a very popular book.

          Give the movie another couple of weeks before writing it off completely, this is Spielberg after all.
          • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.1

            5 January 2012 at 9:08 pm

            Perhaps “flop was slightly too strong a term then.

            In its opening weekend Tintin came in a weak 5th at the box office and garnered under $10M in ticket sales in a total box office of over US$120M. It’s now up to $53M in domestic (US) box office, which while still poor is being offset by its strong international sales.
      • The Voice of Reason 10.1.2

        30 December 2011 at 10:31 am

        “Do you actually watch movies?”
         
        Only the good ones these days, Chris. So no Jackson for me.
        • chris73 10.1.2.1

          30 December 2011 at 10:44 am

          I’m guessing earnest documentaries set in the former soviet republic or kitchen-sink dramas about the bleak lives of the working class.
          • The Voice of Reason 10.1.2.1.1

            30 December 2011 at 11:35 am

            Ha! Pretty much on the money, Chris, though far more of the latter than the former, particularly films like A Taste of Honey, Kes, Billy Liar and A Kind of Loving that showed life as it was lived.
             
            I have, in a previous life, reviewed movies for various magazines both here and Oz and have toyed with the idea of suggesting a weekly film review here at the Standard; perhaps tied to the weekend social post?
             
             
            • chris73 10.1.2.1.1.1

              30 December 2011 at 12:02 pm

              So explain to me why entertainment in a movie is looked down on as “not being worthy”

              For instance comedies are considered low class and not worthy of respect but if someone has a disability, acts gay (but not gay in real life), has a life-threatning disease or mildly retarded (but not full retard, never go full retard) well hey lets throw some respect their way

              Why don’t comedians get the respect they deserve, its not as if comedy is easy.
              • The Voice of Reason …

                30 December 2011 at 12:34 pm

                Not sure who looks down on comedies, Chris. I personally think Airplane (AKA Flying High) is one the greatest American movies of all time and both the Big Lebowski and Withnail and I would feature on my all time list. I don’t think entertainment and art are mutually exclusive terms, at all, but I suppose some do.
                 
                You’re right about the disablity/disease angle, it’s often sentimentalism that goes in as favourite come awards season. And I suspect Ricky Gervais had it right when he suggested Holocaust movies as a short cut to Hollywood success, as well.
                • chris73 …

                  30 December 2011 at 1:56 pm

                  I agree and though Jeff Bridges did win an oscar for crazy heart (disability/disease angle) he didn’t win for the big lebowski

                  And why Caddyshack was never nominated for an oscar is beyond me, its a heart-warming, classic, rags-to-riches, rich vs poor, good triump over evil tale that never grows old. Its the type of movie Frank Capra would have made.
            • prism 10.1.2.1.1.2

              30 December 2011 at 12:04 pm

              TVOR
              Play with that toy – sounds good.
11. headbanger 11

    30 December 2011 at 10:20 am

    It’s funny but sad that a Christian group would ‘lay claim’ to Tolkien’s work in this way. Tolkien himself confirmed categorically that his book was not based on Christian themes in letters to his friend CS Lewis (whose books are very strongly Christian based – for example Aslan’s resurrection).

    Tolkien was Professor of Anglo Saxon. His interests were in areas such as Norse and Celtic mythology, language, culture and poetry etc. and while the hobbit (a light hearted children’s book clearly based on Norse mythology) was written just before the second world the Lord of the Rings was conceptualised through that awful time and published just a decade after the end of WWII.

    If anything Sauron could be argued to represent Hitler rather than Satan.

    Rather than Christian the books are Humanist. Sadly Jackson stripped out all of the underlying stories and anyone who has not read the books (including The Silmarillion which explains everything) could be excused for thinking the story of LOTR is as two dimensional as presented. Hollywood is renowned for this kind of treatment leading to idiotic and ill-informed comments like Jackson as ‘Satan’s little helper’.

    I think Jackson has butchered one of the most amazing stories ever written (and please don’t let him near any part of the Silmarillion), but any person who says the LOTR is in any way Christian should take the time to actually read and discuss all of the books (and a lot is hidden in the Lost Tales) which have strong Humanist themes.

    The great hope for Middle Earth presented in the books is that through Aragorn (and Faramir actually although Jackson stuffed this up) mankind is tested and has passed that test – showing that it is strong and robust enough to take over a world from which the gods will be removed.

    This means the Elves can leave in peace back to Valimar, the Gods and their helpers like good old Olorin (Gandalf to you) can stop watching as the baddies have now all gone (leaving mankind in peace of their scheming), and the other races (Dwarves, Ents and Hobbits etc.) can start to fade away over time leading to what will become a godless modern world.

    Is the concept of a modern world run by stalwart and courageous humans without the interference or involvement of gods a Christian theme?
    • chris73 11.1

      30 December 2011 at 10:46 am

      In my simplistic view I always thought WWI and WWII had more influence on his writings then christian religion.
    • Maui 11.2

      30 December 2011 at 12:50 pm

      That figures .. I watched LOTR1 with Norwegians who walked out half way through. It seems that Tolkien pinched their folk tales which ended up further bastardised in LOTR1. Unimpressed.

      Fell asleep during the second. Didn’t bother with the third.
      • Ianupnorth 11.2.1

        30 December 2011 at 8:00 pm

        You did better than me mate! I made it to Hobbiton on about six attempts to watch number one; didn’t even bother with the others.
         
        Peter Jackson is, IMHO, a lousy director. He takes a short story and makes it an epic – King Kong – dreadful, the Lovely Bones – too indulgent.
         
        As for the views of Christians, who cares? I once considered it because, again personal opinion, you never see a dreadfully poor white christian and they all seem too unfeasibly happy. I tried it, but didn’t like the ritualism – far more happy being a drunken, beligerent rebel.
        • Vicky32 11.2.1.1

          30 December 2011 at 8:11 pm

          As for the views of Christians, who cares? I once considered it because, again personal opinion, you never see a dreadfully poor white christian and they all seem too unfeasibly happy. I tried it, but didn’t like the ritualism – far more happy being a drunken, beligerent rebel.

          Hell’s teeth, look around you! Poor white Christian here, and I know plenty of others. So moderate your prejudices, they’re out-moded and stupid. Please note that the American group quoted in the OP are not representative of Christians, but only of Americans. 🙁
        • Populuxe1 11.2.1.2

          30 December 2011 at 8:12 pm

          To be fair, Lovely Bones was a load of sentimental self-indulgent gush even as a book – however, is it me, or do all his adaptions suck? His original work seems so much better (he said, squinting through the fictive scrim of fading ancient memories…)
        • tc 11.2.1.3

          31 December 2011 at 11:48 am

          Agree, PJ is an average producer but above average director IMO but he’s our hollywood goblin readily available as long as he gets to line his pockets. looking very much in the trough lately after slimming down for awhile.

          His better efforts are where the quality of the associates shines through, Spielberg in tintin and Blomkamp in district 9 come to mind.
    • Vicky32 11.3

      30 December 2011 at 8:06 pm

      (including The Silmarillion which explains everything)

      I have read the Silmarillion, it’s very dense, but quite wonderful! I agree with you headbanger, very well-stated indeed! 🙂
    • CnrJoe 11.4

      30 December 2011 at 8:33 pm

      gandalfs resurrection ?
      • Vicky32 11.4.1

        31 December 2011 at 11:23 am

        gandalfs resurrection ?

        Ah, well, that’s about a temporary resurrection, most similar to that of Sheridan in Babylon 5 – so that he can assist the rest of the Ring-bearers. So, no, the Silmarillion doesn’t really explain that, but it does explain the “world”! The Silmarillion was all Tolkien really cared about, and the publishers only agreed to publish it provided Tolkien wrote the other more ‘popular’ works…
        All afaik!
12. Hami Shearlie 12

    30 December 2011 at 11:53 pm

    I watched the first LOTR film – not impressed, so I haven’t even watched the other two. Apart from Peter Jackson’s anti-union behaviour, I just don’t get the mania for his films – I suppose kiwis like them because they were filmed here – I usually love this type of film but somehow LOTR just didn’t appeal(boring) . There’s only so many wizards and goblins and elves and weird creatures you can take! Sometimes special effects can get in the way of the story, too much emphasis on them and not enough on formation of the characters! Peter Jackson is so over-rated!
    • Populuxe1 12.1

      31 December 2011 at 12:57 pm

      The appeal to some susceptible Pakeha is similar to the popularity of Wagner with a certain kind of German in the 1930s. The simple themes of Heimat and Volk, and the whole pseudo-Anglo-Saxo-Nordic-Celtic ready-made origin myth linked with the New Zealand landscape gives them a feeling of connection and a false romantic fantasy of ancient belonging. That, and the cheesy lustre of Hollywood glamour appeals to the shallow.
13. DS 13

    31 December 2011 at 1:01 am

    Please note that I am in no way condoning these fundamentalist nutjobs (I”m non-religious myself), but LOTR (in Tolkien’s words) is a “fundamentally Catholic work.” Unlike C.S. Lewis, Tolkien hated allegory, so kept it out of your face, but there are very strong themes of faith, mercy, redemption, death going on in there.
    • Quasimodo 13.1

      31 December 2011 at 11:15 am

      LOTR (in Tolkien’s words) is a “fundamentally Catholic work.”

      .. very much so. It’s ironic that Sir Ian wanders around in white robes with a hit of an aura without anyone commenting on it. The Catholic church thought so, mobilising its formidable organisation in the run-up to the last premiere.

      On another note, it seems ironic that Aotearoa is becoming a nation of bunyip aristocrats, from Sir Graham Henry to a butcher friend of John Key.

      I wonder if our Asia-Pacific trading partners will be impressed in Shanghai, Mumbai, or San Francisco.
      • Populuxe1 13.1.1

        31 December 2011 at 1:11 pm

        “I wonder if our Asia-Pacific trading partners will be impressed in Shanghai, Mumbai, or San Francisco.” Stupid question

        Any American, San Francisco or otherwise, gets very excited by anyone with a title – largely because they think its romantic and they are easily impressed by such things.

        Ggiven modern India’s complicated relationship with the traditional caste system and their military, I’m sure they appreciate the symbolism, and of course they have their own honours system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_honours_system

        As for Shnaghai, the Party might as well be aristocracy, and hierarchy understands hierarchy.

        Our geographical neighnourhood isn’t really all that egalitarian, generally speaking.
    • Richard Christie 13.2

      5 January 2012 at 8:54 pm

      “but LOTR (in Tolkien’s words) is a “fundamentally Catholic work.”

      Groan. Not at all, the quote is a Jesuit Priest’s recollection to H Carpenter, a Tolkien biographer, of an alleged conversation with Tolkien.
      Unless Tolkien the linguist was using term catholic in its original sense that recollection is highly suspect given the recollection’s source and Tolkien’s own written record on the topic.
      Faith, mercy, death and redemption have never been the sole preserve of christianity.
      Breathtakingly stupid to imply they are.
      • DS 13.2.1

        7 January 2012 at 3:33 am

        No it isn’t, it’s from Letter 172 in the published Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien:

        The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like ‘religion’, to cults and practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism.  
14. Fotran 14

    31 December 2011 at 2:08 pm

    TinTin is far too intelligent for any American, so not surprised it went over their heads – AND ITS NOT AMERICAN.
    • Brett Dale 14.1

      2 January 2012 at 5:07 pm

      Fotran:

      Really?

      How many Americans do you know?
      • Colonial Viper 14.1.1

        5 January 2012 at 8:59 pm

        What has the number of americans you personally know got to do with it.
15. Quasimodo 15

    1 January 2012 at 9:18 am

    Populuxe1: when I last enquired Shanghai, Mumbai, and San Francisco were prominent trading centers in republics forged through anti-colonial struggles against hereditary monarchies. Some people have long memories.

    By the 1850s, bunyip had .. become a “synonym for imposter, pretender, humbug and the like” in the broader Australian community. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Bunyip

    It was once described to me in great detail how a current NZ Knight deliberately tackled an Australian rugby player in such a way that muscles and tendons were ripped from the bone of his leg leaving him permanently crippled.

    Described as “a character” by NZ journalists, we have had to watch his TV plugs for shonky finance companies, and must needs bow and scrape in his presence.

    At a time when financial crises and trade wars loom on the horizon, the last thing we need is Sir Tim from Taumaranui clancking off his steed to do business with the locals.
    • Populuxe1 15.1

      1 January 2012 at 11:25 am

      Oh, Quasimodo, don’t you see how patronising it is to imply that powerful, confident economic powers like China or India still cling to such postcolonial anxieties? And really, if I was a millionaire, I would happily pay to fly you to the US city of your choice just to put you at a street corner to ask that question of average Americans walking by – I could use the laugh. Indeed, are you oblivious to the way any member of the Royal Family, not least of all that ticking fruitcake Diana, was recieved in these places?

      I had never heard of that usage of Bunyip – so thanks for that. Obviously I get that you don’t like organised team sports, Monarchy etc etc. I don’t begrudge the Mad Butcher his gong – his politics aside, he doesn’t strike me as an actual Tory or Neo-Lib, just a misguided conservative, and has done a hell of a lot for less fortunate communities – I can only hope that sort of spirit rubs off on other Nats.

      Personally I like pomp and spectacle – I am an ambivalent monarchist. As long as the majority of New Zealanders want (as the polls continue to suggest) a monarchy, than I am content not to expensively swap one set of empty symbols for another. One of the few things Helen did that I did disagree with was to drop knighthoods without a referendum. People like them, they’re easy to understand. At the end of the day it’s just a word – it confers no power or authority on anyone, and bleating about such things is a hobby for bored middle-class white people who should be doing more about, you know, actual serious real injustices.
16. Quasimodo 16

    1 January 2012 at 12:28 pm

    Re “that ticking fruitcake” .. Diana was the victim of a system which needed an heir.
    You have outed yourself as a monarchist. Empty symbols ? People have fought and died
    over these things in places as varied as Peterloo and Waterloo .. the latter won only by Bluchers arrival. Wellington described it as a “near run thing”. It could easily have gone the other way.

    It worries me that the National Party under John Key ignore the lessons of the fall of Singapore,
    continuing an outdated system of imperial honours at a time when many people prefer to be recognised for their merits rather than for their political connections.
    • Populuxe1 16.1

      1 January 2012 at 12:48 pm

      Diana was a vapid, self-obsessed, vain woman, whose only contributions to the betterment of the world was her charity work for AIDS and clusterbomb victims, which rapidly degenerated into her “poor me” Queen of Hearts theatrics once the divorce papers came through.

      Don’t forget the “ambivalent” in front of “monarchist” – it’s there for a reason.

      Now, Quasimodo, I suggest you come and join us in the twenty-first century, or I will have to remind you how people really felt about Oliver Cromwell.
      • Quasimodo 16.1.1

        6 January 2012 at 3:04 pm

        Did you ever meet Diana ? If not, how can you make such judgments ? Does your contempt extend to the manner of her death ?

        I do not understand your ambivalence about monarchy.

        My point is simple – the pretensions of the old world are increasingly dysfunctional in the Asian-Pacific reality in which we live.

        It has nothing to do with the polls.
        • Populuxe1 16.1.1.1

          6 January 2012 at 10:13 pm

          No, I personally never met Diana, I judge her on her overly reported every action and the comentaries of people who did know her and who despite being infatuated with her, observed the frivolous creature beneath, and of course my contempt doesn’t extend to her death and only a dishonerable person would suggest such a thing. She used and manipulated people without qualm to get what she wanted. End of story.

          My ambivalence to monarchy relates to the word “constitutional” – unless we find ourselves in the unlikely circumstances the Whitlam government in Australia did, the monarchy has absolutely no serious impact on life in this country while providing endless pagentry and gossip. I like that, The Queen has got better things to do than to oppress your freedoms – the same can not be said of Presidents. The NACTS scare me infinitely more than a Royal walkabout. What’s she going to do, set the corgis on you. By the by Thailand’s laws (they’re Asia-Pacific, aren’t they?) are infinitely more serious about their royal family. And despite being a democracy, the name Gandhi keeps popping up like a serious dynasty. Tonga has a monarchy too… Brunei is a Sultanate… All of them nowhere near as free as our little set-up. You are tilting at windmills and destracting from the serious shit our Government (Sir, Dame or not) is doing.

          As for the “pretentions of the old world” – I am so over this postcolonial cringe bullshit. The reality is that Australia and New Zealand have had as much to do with the creation of the modern Asia-Pacific region as anywhere else – that includes our British origins and our democratic systems of government. Yes horrific things were done for which we have yet to fully atone, but we are not alien interlopers – we are in fact part of Asia-Pacific as we are; we have, for good or ill, grown up with it, in it.

          “It has nothing to do with the polls” – so you’re saying you are anti-democracy, which is ironic for an anti-monarchist.
17. Cin77 17

    2 January 2012 at 1:30 pm

    I’ve felt like a traitor to my country for so long, but after reading these comments I feel vindicated. The lotr movies to me were so long and boring. I know that movies are never as good as the books, to me thats just a sacrifice needed to make the transition from intellectual entertainment to visual entertainment, but I had high hopes for lotr becasue to source material was so rich and vibrant. But no, the movies felt stripped of the magic in favour of VFX bling.

    I wont be watching the Hobbit. I don’t care about the questionable religous angle but I do care about bastardizing the source long after the original author can defend his work.
18. Brett Dale 18

    2 January 2012 at 4:30 pm

    You are aware that the Majority of American Christians aren’t like this or like Fred Phelps or Pat Robertson, they don’t send their kids to Jesus Camp or spout hate against Homosexuals, they dont think the Muppet movie is a liberal polt to corrupt their kids, they dont think Obama is going turn their good clean white daughters into raging lesbian Muslims.

    These people are such a small majority, a blimp, who aren’t worth worrying about.

    I tthink we should give Jackson all the money he wants, for waht he has done to New Zealand.

    I mean if we can give Outrageous Fortune $8 million a year over for six years, we can the world’s most known film director who has bought in hundreds of millions to New Zealand, a freakin tax break.
    • CnrJoe 18.1

      4 January 2012 at 8:11 am

      what? no difference in yr mind between O.F & LOTR? treat them similar?
      unions on one & not on the other.
      indigenous storytelling & vapid blockbuster ?
    • warren 18.2

      5 January 2012 at 9:51 pm

      Not the same thing at all. OF needed that money to be made, it was never going to earn money overseas due to it’s uniquely kiwi flavour. Warners Brothers require no money from us to make their mega-profitable world-release McBlockbusters.
      • Colonial Viper 18.2.1

        5 January 2012 at 10:51 pm

        Peter Jackson could bankroll the entire Hobbit project himself, but like all rich capitalists is looking for social handouts from the Government’s coffers. While screwing workers down on pay and conditions.
19. Brett Dale 19

    4 January 2012 at 2:51 pm

    There is a huge difference in all aspects of LOTR and OF.

    Finically for New Zealand, artistically for New Zealand.
20. Richard Christie 20

    5 January 2012 at 8:42 pm

    In regard to LOTR, P J should have stuck to splatter movies, oh wait, but that’s just what he did, the result bears little comparison to the books.
21. lostinsuburbia 21

    6 January 2012 at 10:18 am

    I personally think that most of his recent stuff is overrated, though I have never been a huge swords and wizards kind of guy.

    I just wish someone would make a decent version of “The Day of the Triffids” or “The Kraken Wakes”. Give me John Wynham sci fi any time.
22. Copra 22

    6 January 2012 at 2:50 pm

    “The Fire Down Below”, an NZ film substituting mythical beings for magma 70 km’s below Auckland which is looking for a way out was advertised on TV recently, but I missed the time it was shown. A great little book dealing with universal values and local circumstances. The kids loved it .. good to see low budget indie productions getting local exposure.
    • Colonial Viper 22.1

      7 January 2012 at 7:39 am

      “Under the Mountain” (Maurice Gee) was the kids classic NZ TV miniseries in the 1980’s. More dastardly aliens sneaking around! Good stuff.
23. RedLogix 23

    7 January 2012 at 8:14 am

    Now may be a good moment to reveal that I have a full collection of Vernor Vinge.

    I consider Vernor Vinge to be one of the most visionary SF authors living today (it could be claimed this directly makes him one of the most visionary living authors, period, but I won’t get into that.) His vision of technology is quite different from most SF, and on the surface seems quite fantastic, yet in fact feels the most realistic to me. His books have placed him in the extropian literary pantheon.

    Technology in much of SF is simply an effector of the vision of the work. FTL, anti-gravity, artificial gravity, all working to build interstellar empires regardless of the physical obstacles. Social changes are often minimal. Vernor Vinge is at the other extreme; in looking at the potential of realistic technology, particularly computers/AI or cognitive science, he has come to the conclusion that we must run into a Singularity beyond which meaningful prediction (and fiction) is impossible. Idealized nanotechnology also has potential for creating a singularity, although not as drastic as the one causable by control over the nature of intelligence. Much of his fiction is based on skirting around the Singularity and is quite interesting thereby.

    linky

    Vinge will never likely be rated as a high literature (in the English major sense), but he’s very, very readable. And more to the point of this thread his vision is superbly detailed, vivid and challenging. Many of his novels would translate very well to film… in the hands of the right producer. If I had to pick between Jackson, Speilburg and Cameron to do the job… I’d likely go with the later.

    Cameron may be safe in one sense, but Avatar showed his skill at translating vision off a page onto a screen. Couple that with someone like Neill Blomkamp’s sheer audacity for the scriptplay on one of Vinge’s works like A Fire Upon the Deep and I’d have a dream team.
    • lprent 23.1

      7 January 2012 at 10:12 am

      Snap. Pretty close to my favorite science fiction writer (it’d probably be a toss up between him, Greg Bear, and Gregory Benford).

      But I think that you’re a complete optimistic you think that A Fire on the Deep could ever be filmed successfully. It is simply too long. The length you need is that of a short story, and even that ou usually have to cut down.

      Which is why Philip K Dick’s imaginative short stories were perfect for movies. But Vinge’s short stories from In The Hall of the Martian Kings……. Ummmm
      • RedLogix 23.1.1

        7 January 2012 at 10:27 am

        Well Lord of the Rings was always thought to be ‘too long’.

        I’m not what you would call a big SF geekboy, but there are plenty of people who rank Fire Upon the Deep as one of the best hard SF’s ever written; although you’re probably right..I’m being way over-optmistic about turning it into film. Certainly Vinge is right up there with the far better known authors like Heinlein, Clarke and Anderson.

        I was fortunate enough to stumble accross one of his earlier works The Peace War in a second-hand bookshop in the early 90’s and by both accident and design I’ve put together a complete collection.
        • lprent 23.1.1.1

          7 January 2012 at 1:40 pm

          It is about the best hard SF book I have ever read. Pips Deepness, just simply because of the depth of the societal analysis. I see that there is a third book out in that universe according to Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_Of_The_Sky. I guess I now know where my amazon gift voucher is going. Bit of a pain that Baen books doesn’t offer vouchers (and doesn’t have the full range of books). I always have to check frigging amazon to make sure that they don’t try to sell me a DRM mobi or ePub. Pain in the arse shifting those around the computers.

          Ummm. I was referring to John Varley in the earlier comment for the short stories. He has did a great novel in several books. But The Golden Globe is probably his best at several levels.
      • marty mars 23.1.2

        7 January 2012 at 10:39 am

        all good but I like Neal Asher – the polity and those AI’s, golems and so on – strikes to the heart of the question of what is life, intelligence and humanity, or maybe Alastar Reynolds and the cojoiner/demarchist universe. Letting my space opera propensity out the bag… probably not filmable but certainly readable IMHO
        • lprent 23.1.2.1

          7 January 2012 at 1:26 pm

          Haven’t tried Asher (that I can remember).

          Reynolds tends to disappoint me most of the time – apart frm the book where he had churches wandering around a frozen moon. Unfortunately it was the first of his books I read. Have been bored ever since.
          • NickS 23.1.2.1.1

            7 January 2012 at 2:33 pm

            Blasphemer!

            Though Reynolds does go for a slow, sometimes glacial pace…

            And if you want to /head-desk, read Asher’s latest The Departure, which he’s using as a soap box for his political views (greed bad, big government bad bad bad, climate change is wrongzors + the somewhat more laudable “ownership brings responsibility”) and is pretty sludgy compared to his other recent works. If you want to see him at his best, The Technician is the best place to start, and his collection of short stories The Gabble is also a pretty good introduction.
            • lprent 23.1.2.1.1.1

              7 January 2012 at 9:44 pm

              😈 Reynolds also tends to be derivative. I can usually predict what he is going to write after having read less than 50 or so pages. Not what I read science fiction for (and I read far more science fiction than I do computer manuals or history or science)

              I will keep an eye out for Asher.
              • warren …

                7 January 2012 at 10:52 pm

                Reynolds is my favourite author! I don’t find him predictable, or glacial. I don’t know what you have read of his, but aside from his disappointing “Terminal World” I find his work creative and exciting to read. Bear in mind that his genre is Space Opera. If you are looking for deadly serious hard SF you are looking in the wrong place. But if you want to be transported to another very different place and time for a gripping adventure, and not have to endure hackneyed plots or settings Reynolds is your man.
                • lprent …

                  8 January 2012 at 12:50 am

                  The problem is that I have been reading science fiction of all types since I was about 15 – ie 37-38 years. That includes everything from the old pulps (I had access to someone’s library, and recently the Gutenberg project was good until I sucked it dry) to massive tomes from several centuries. I have a few thousand pBooks around and I’m steadily accumulating ePub’s as new stuff comes out or as a old paperback falls apart (very few of the ones from the 70’s are surviving now).

                  Some of them are great even in sub-genres that I don’t like (the limited numbers of plot-lines in most fantasy* tends to annoy me). Some I found were turgid on first read, and then good a decade or so later. I’ve learned to reread books even when I didn’t like them on the first read because some of the ability to enjoy some books is experience related.

                  Some I found to be just crap. For instance Dhalgen always comes to mind. He is a great writer and I have enjoyed some of his shorter stuff. But I have read the damn thing 3 times in three different decades and the story is still just daft.

                  Some were just boring. Usually that is because they were dealing with concepts that were better done decades ago and/or they dragged the chain on the storyline to pad out the book and/or they weren’t that good a writer.

                  Reynolds is one of those. So far I have found Reynolds to be good mostly when he writes shortish stories (I have a couple of his collections of shorts around). In the larger books I seem figure out the main theme of his stories early on, and then it is merely turgidly wading through the book at high speed (I’m a really fast reader) seeing if anything interesting comes up. Normally I’d read everything at least 10 times because I’m so desperate for entertaining stuff to read, but I haven’t read any Reynolds novel more than twice, and I have a couple sitting around unread waiting for a time of desperation (along with a few other books that are in the same irritating state – some of the derivative works out of the Dune universe for instance) 😈

                  Sure it might be that I simply haven’t gotten into the books (happens sometimes). But this is unusual… Irritating thing is that he knows how to write and parts of the books are good. But they seem like vignettes of interest surrounded with minutiae that adds nothing to the storyline or the atmosphere. In fact they are a bit like those formula fantasy like Jordan writes.

                  * Unless it is Ursula Le Guin and a few others
                  • Colonial Viper …

                    8 January 2012 at 1:00 am

                    Old fashioned well manufactured physical books on quality paper stored cool and dry will last 50-75 years easy in an energy depleting, de-industrialising world, and certainly (IMO) longer than anything electronic or online in the ‘cloud’ or on local HDD/SSD.
                    • lprent …

                      8 January 2012 at 1:12 am

                      In Auckland? Warm, water laden mugginess is the normal climate.

                      But these are almost entirely paperbacks, because that is all that I could afford at my reading speeds. The only hardbacks are books picked up at places like the Hard To Find bookstore.

                      Trick with electronics is to have enough copies and to keep copying. These days since a single DVD holds enough for a library or epubs, my offline backups are mostly on those. I treat them the same way that I do with code – except that eBooks have a lot fewer graphics. I still have files around that I wrote in the mid-80’s that were originally on 5.25 inch floppies and got transcribed several times on to different formats. My old coding style was crap – I look back at them to remind myself how much I have improved over the years.

                      But I’m really glad to have gotten rid of the magnetic storage for backups…. But after many hard disk failures over the years even my working systems are multiple RAID mirrors.
                  • marty mars …

                    8 January 2012 at 9:50 am

                    interesting regarding Samuel R Delaney and Dhalgren – how did you go with ‘Stars in my pocket like grains of sand’ – that is one that I have struggled with since the 80’s – very dense and detailed – whew – love the title of that book so much tho.
                    • lprent …

                      8 January 2012 at 9:50 pm

                      Not sure that I have ever read it. I read the wikipedia entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stars_in_My_Pocket_Like_Grains_of_Sand and it didn’t ring any bells. I read Babel-17 and Nova at the library and enjoyed them. Plus some of the short stories in various anthologies.

                      But I did have a pretty active policy after reading Dhalgen and starting a couple of other later novels of not wanting to spend on his books.
      • Frank Macskasy 23.1.3

        7 January 2012 at 11:59 am

        Waiting for Philip K Dick’s “The Man in the High Castle” to be made into a movie

        But with our luck, Hollywood will make Sylvester Stallone the lead character who will reprise his “Rambo” persona; take on the Nazi/Japanese occupiers; and liberate the whole You-Es-of-Aye single-handedly.

        *cringe*

        Just like the 1996 “Dr Who” movie – with all of the richness of The Doctor’s Universe to choose from – and Hollywood opts for another f*****g car-chase. Gawd help us. The Master couldn’t do much worse if one of his dastardly plans for world domination succeeded. Davros, come back! All is forgiven!!

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15730665 Do not – DO NOT! – give this project to the Americans!! Or there will be cybermen’s blood on the streets!!
        • Vicky32 23.1.3.1

          8 January 2012 at 2:53 am

          Do not – DO NOT! – give this project to the Americans!! Or there will be cybermen’s blood on the streets!!

          You’re absolutely right, Frank! The 1999 Dr Who movie was complete and utter shite, despite the efforts of my son to convince me otherwise. Americans by and large ruin everything they touch – whatever it is, cultural product or anything else. Torchwood: Miracle Day is a good example there.
          • Frank Macskasy 23.1.3.1.1

            10 January 2012 at 1:43 pm

            Oh gods, yes, Vicki. Miracle Day was a good idea – but allowing our American cuzzies to leave their sticky, juvenile handprints all over it was like a legion of cybermen tromping through a china-shop…
    • NickS 23.2

      7 January 2012 at 2:47 pm

      I still haven’t read Vinge’s books sadly :/

      And my budget’s going to be tight as I’m gunning to get Reynolds Blue Remember Earth ordered by the 18th (already ordered McAuley’s In The Mouth of The Whale).

      And speaking of teh Singularity, have you read Charles Stross’s Accelerando? Best take imo, there’s also Peter Watt’s Blindsight (and forthcoming sequel State of Grace) which gets diamond hard on neurobiology, evolution and whether or not conciousness is actually an evolutionary dead end, underlaid by a singularity that the bulk of humanity doesn’t even realised has happened. And vampires, sociopathic, hard science vampires.

      And if you’re in Christchurch I can loan you Accelerando and Blindsight once it arrives off trademe, though Peter’s stuck it up for free here.
      • lprent 23.2.1

        7 January 2012 at 9:24 pm

        Accelerando is up as a free ePub as well. Crazy book. Even Lyn couldn’t put my pBook down.
24. Frank Macskasy 24

    7 January 2012 at 11:48 am

    “Peter Jackson has once again stepped up as Satan’s Little Helper to direct the two-part film and is once again using witchcraft and wizardry to peddle the film…

    Aka, special effects and CGI?

    Ah, these Christian Fundies – so quaint in their own Middle Ages ways.
25. Lostinsuburbia 25

    7 January 2012 at 6:09 pm

    Some of Stephen Baxter’s work would make good films too.
    • warren 25.1

      7 January 2012 at 10:40 pm

      The fundies would just LOVE a film of Stephen Baxter’s “Evolution”!
      • Populuxe1 25.1.1

        9 January 2012 at 7:03 pm

        All of the above + Iain M Banks “Culture” novels and Julian May’s “Saga of the Exiles” cycle. Apparently there is a movie option out there somewhere on Arthur C Clarke’s Songs of Distant Earth – I would LOVE to see that made into a film. Our own Phillip Mann’s “A Land Fit For Heroes” might cut it too.
         
        It’s a shame that there isn’t more decent homegrown SF.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:New_Zealand_science_fiction_writers
26. Frank Macskasy 26

    10 January 2012 at 11:51 am

    What was the name of the sf movie where someone from the 20th century is transported into the future – and the citizens are all dumbed down? (Writing something for my Blog.)
    • The Voice of Reason 26.1

      10 January 2012 at 11:54 am

      Woody Allen’s Sleeper?
      • Frank Macskasy 26.1.1

        10 January 2012 at 1:46 pm

        I think there was another one, VoR… *scratches head*
        • McFlock 26.1.1.1

          10 January 2012 at 1:49 pm

          Idiocracy? I quite liked it, for what it was.
    • RedLogix 26.2

      10 January 2012 at 1:48 pm

      HG Wells The Time Machine?
    • higherstandard 26.3

      10 January 2012 at 2:15 pm

      The matrix ?
    • The Voice of Reason 26.4

      10 January 2012 at 2:42 pm

      A few possibilities here, Frank. Personally, I’m hoping its the Rebirth of Mothra III, but other titles are available.

      Edit: I see McFlock got there first. Good game, we should play more often!
      • Frank Macskasy 26.4.1

        10 January 2012 at 2:46 pm

        With the release of radiation from Fukushima, VoR, Mothra (and his buddies) may be on the scene real soon…
    • Vicky32 26.5

      10 January 2012 at 2:44 pm

      What was the name of the sf movie where someone from the 20th century is transported into the future – and the citizens are all dumbed down? (Writing something for my Blog.)

      I thought of the story ‘Marching Morons‘, but that’s not a film, and given it’s libertarian at base, not good… but the film mentioned sounds very interesting…
27. Frank Macskasy 27

    10 January 2012 at 2:30 pm

    McFlock got it. Ta, mate.

    Oh my god, I just read McFlock’s link to the Wiki entry for the movie,

    “The film tells the story of two ordinary people taken into a top-secret military hibernation experiment to awaken in a dystopia wherein advertising, commercialism, and cultural anti-intellectualism run rampant and dysgenic pressure has resulted in a uniformly stupid human society devoid of intellectual curiosity, social responsibility, and coherent notions of justice and human rights.”

    It is New Zealand, 2012AD!
28. Frank Macskasy 28

    10 January 2012 at 7:26 pm

    Sorted.

    http://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2012/01/10/dumber-and-dumber-for-the-21st-century/
29. Eddie 29

    10 January 2012 at 9:29 pm

    I thought the LOTRs trilogy was fantastic. And so did most of the movie-going public.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films#Highest-grossing_franchises_and_film_series

    Number 6 on the list of all time highest selling movie franchises. It took many years of Peter Jackson selling his soul to get them made. Yes he screwed the very small industry of film workers in NZ over the Hobbit, but I think the marketing of NZ that these movies gave and which the Hobbit movies will re-ignite, is worth it.

    This is fairly generalised statement, but I would say for 80 percent of the people I meet when I’m overseas, when I say “I’m from New Zealand”, they say “Oh, Lord of the Rings”.

    Ease up on the hating.

    [Welcome to the site but please choose a new handle. One of the authors is called Eddie. Zet]
    • Frank Macskasy 29.1

      10 January 2012 at 10:23 pm

      I can’t s;peak for others, but it’s not “hate” I feel toward Jackson. “Disappointment” in his behaviour might be a better term.
    • RedLogix 29.2

      10 January 2012 at 10:48 pm

      This is fairly generalised statement, but I would say for 80 percent of the people I meet when I’m overseas, when I say “I’m from New Zealand”, they say “Oh, Lord of the Rings”.

      Which is fair enough. But I’ll guarantee you that 100% of them have no inkling of Jackson’s role in the Hobbit dispute.

      From the written evidence there is no doubt Jackson was pressurised by the studio…whose purpose was to extract more subsidies from the NZ govt and who couldn’t have cared less about some obscure contractural issues with Actors Equity.

      Now this put Jackson in an awkward position not being able to come out straight and say what the real agenda was, but it suited him right to the ground to revisit an old Employment Court decision that had gone against him some years before. So Actors Equity got to be the whipping boy.

      And while Bill English knew perfectly well the NZ taxpayer was being played like a fish, it suited National to see some union getting demonised. As far as they were concerned it was taxpayers money well spent.

      Now you can admire Jackson for ‘doing what needed to be done’. The Hobbit is being made and money is being spent in NZ. For some people the outcome is all that counts.

      Others however count the cost. And like Frank, it’s not hate I feel about Jackson… it’s sadness to see someone so admired and respected, trade on that reputation for such narrow and ultimately venal reasons.
      • Frank Macskasy 29.2.1

        10 January 2012 at 11:00 pm

        Indeed, RedLogix. *thumbs up*

        By the way, something of interest about the so-called NZAG (NZ Actors Guild) – the breakaway actors union – came up recently in the media. I couldn’t help but jot a few thoughts down; http://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2011/09/25/roosting-chickens/
30. Eduardo Kawak (hopefully handle not taken) 30

    11 January 2012 at 12:12 am

    From Urban dictionary dotcom: “Hater: A person that simply cannot be happy for another person’s success. So rather than be happy they make a point of exposing a flaw in that person.

    Hating, the result of being a hater, is not exactly jealousy. The hater doesnt really want to be the person he or she hates, rather the hater wants to knock someone else down a notch.”

    [lprent: nope that is definitely unique, and thanks. ]
    • Populuxe1 30.1

      11 January 2012 at 12:27 am

      From Urban Dictionary.com: “A person who is completely loyal to a game or company reguardless of if they suck or not.”
      • Populuxe1 30.1.1

        11 January 2012 at 2:43 am

        I should have said “Fan Boy”
         
    • Colonial Viper 30.2

      11 January 2012 at 12:42 am

      Neoliberal elites believe themselves successful if they can become the biggest parasites living off the economic value created by workers, by communities and by the environment in general.

      Not going to knock those types down a notch mate, gonna knock their block off. Slight difference.
    • Draco T Bastard 30.3

      11 January 2012 at 1:54 am

      I’d be fine with PJs success – if he wasn’t using it to screw over the rest of NZ.
31. Eduardo Kawak 31

    11 January 2012 at 1:07 am

    They appear to be winning. And I certainly didn’t vote their asses in, this time or last time. So how you going to knock their blocks off? Revolution? How well did Occupy Auckland go?
    • Colonial Viper 31.1

      11 January 2012 at 10:01 am

      Check in with me in 5 years.
32. Colonial Viper 32

    11 January 2012 at 10:00 am

    Latest Keiser Report makes it clear the Hollywood financial scam game that Peter Jackson is a member of

    That’s what we’re helping to subsidise.

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