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Peters v Collins

Written By: - Date published: 1:53 pm, August 29th, 2014 - 69 comments
Categories: Judith Collins, scoundrels, winston peters - Tags: , ,

Who to believe, who to believe?

Prime Minister John Key has dismissed Winston Peters’ claim that he was approached by someone who asked him if he would work with Judith Collins if she was National Party leader.

However Key did add it would “theoretically” be a sackable offence if Peters’ allegation of treachery were true, before saying: “it won’t be true”.

The NZ First leader today said he would swear an affidavit that someone asked him and that he would “put his life on it”.

That’s very strong language from Peters, and Collins has every reason to lie.  Why is she still a Minister anyway?  The rumours that she “has something” on Key are probably mischievous – but it would explain his bizarre paralysis as Collins keeps dragging National through the dirt.

69 comments on “Peters v Collins ”

  1. blue leopard 1

    Someone on one of the other threads just put forward that Collins has something on Key – that of knowing how involved Key has been in the Dirty Politicking tactics. Sounds very plausible to me.

    It was Kenny: http://thestandard.org.nz/and-the-winner-is-2/#comment-875390

  2. blue leopard 2

    Kenny mentioned on another thread that Collins probably knows just how involved Key has been in the dirty politicking and that is what she has over Key. Sounds plausible to me.

    [My previous comment got marked as spam because I put a link to the comment, so I will leave it out and no doubt there will be a double-up later today.]

    • emergency mike 2.1

      Very plausible. But that kind of information would be hard for her to put out without virtually ending her own political career. It would surely be her ‘nuclear option’, i.e. “If I go down you’re going down with me.”

      • Clemgeopin 2.1.1

        from what I heard on radio, I think this supposed approach from Collin’s emissary (sent by a National MP) was BEFORE the Oravida scandal, when Collins was strongly being talked about at that time as the next leader after Key.

        • blue leopard 2.1.1.1

          Clemogeopin,

          It doesn’t matter that the approach was made before the Oravida scandal. Winston has raised it now and Key has to respond to it now, but he isn’t. I think Kenny’s point is very relevant and is probably what Collins has over Key that is stopping him lead on the issue as he should be doing. I assume Peters has done this at this point because it places pressure on Key and highlights Key’s lack of action on/involvement in the corruption.

          • Clemgeopin 2.1.1.1.1

            Another motive of Winston would be to

            (1) Rattle right wing voters, particularly National supporters, to get disturbed/disgusted with the shenanigans and drift towards NZF with their party vote.

            (2) Get his standing/credibility go up with the left, particularly with Labour’s soft supporters, so that he could get some more party votes from them.

            Good clever politics from Winston for his party vote advantage at the expense of the right and left!

            I only hope he isn’t lying about his claim. I don’t suspect he is.

      • blue leopard 2.1.2

        ‘But that kind of information would be hard for her to put out without virtually ending her own political career.’

        Yes, and that is just the position Key is in now i.e. that information Collins potentially has is likely be stopping Key from coming down hard on her now. If Key removes her in response to all the recent revelations, as he should (in order to [falsely] present himself as not having condoned or had anything to do with the dirty manoeuvrings that have been going on under the surface), then that is when the nuclear option gets activated.

        Key would look a lot better if he condemned Slater and Collins, yet he may be in a position where he can’t because they will drag him down with them if he did.

    • Enough is Enough 2.2

      I am hearing there already has been a Collins coup that Key is a part of.

      You will have noticed there has been a huge purge of the current National MPs. Rumour has it they have been paid off to shut and fuck off. 300k each.

      They are being replaced by Collins sympathisers.

      17 Joyce loyalists are out replaced with how ever many get elected Collins players.

      Key is involved in this and has approved the process.

      Not to roll him but to ensure power is handed over without Joyce making an open war out of it.

      • yeshe 2.2.1

        Who has paid them ? any word on that ?

      • emergency mike 2.2.2

        You’re hearing this from where? So Key is a member of the ‘Collins faction’?

        It’s not implausible, that Key hasn’t fired her not because he can’t but because she is his chosen successor. However I’m a bit leery of rumours on blogs these days if you know what I mean.

        Lest this site starts resembling another less reputable site a bit too much. I’m sure some people would like to see that happen.

        • Enough is Enough 2.2.2.1

          Winston Peters interview with Willy and Ali between 1 and 2 on RadioLive. Not sure if it is available on line.

          It has also been a rumour floating around Wellington for weeks.

          • emergency mike 2.2.2.1.1

            So Winston said it, and you also heard about it separately else where? Or did Winston say it and then also say it’s been floating around?

            I’m also a bit leery of Winston spreading rumours that can’t be proved wrong. Whether it’s true or not he’s making a publicity play for his own benefit three weeks before an election. If it’s true it’s certainly newsworthy of course. But it will simply be denied, then what? Winston will huff and puff about it and get his face on the telly. Classic Winston.

          • Clemgeopin 2.2.2.1.2

            Here is a hour of interesting and amusing one hour of interview and talk back Q and A of Winston. Click on Friday, 13.00 pm to 13.45 pm. I believe the phone calls were chock-a-bloc and callers were restricted to a single question! Makes you realise why he is so popular and what a smart politician he is!

            http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Audio.aspx

          • Clemgeopin 2.2.2.1.3

            http www radiolive.co.nz/Audio.aspx

            Insert the appropriate punctuation marks in the above link.
            Listen to Friday audio 13:00pm to 13:45pm

          • rich 2.2.2.1.4

            Any idea where the cash is coming from (if the rumour is true) ?

            • Clemgeopin 2.2.2.1.4.1

              Don’t know if the rumours are true, but cash is really of no object for the very rich prick RWNjobs around the world if their objectives can be met!

              • Rich

                Yes well I’ll leave this one for the moment in case it’s exaggerated but if it is true I for one want more than RWNjobs as a description.

  3. yeshe 3

    Maybe Collins “owns” Jason Ede .. would make some sense in line with her relationship with Slater. And hasn’t Ede disappeared well ? I am still waiting for someone to ask the National Party HQ if he remains on their payroll. C’mon media !!

  4. fambo 4

    The question may be just who did the asking. It could have been someone with no significant authority within Collin’s clique. It could have been a National party supporter who was in the same pissoir as Winston, for instance.

    I don’t think Winston would make the claim without something having happened.

    • disturbed 4.1

      Fambo,

      “It could have been someone with no significant authority within Collin’s clique. It could have been a National party supporter who was in the same pissoir as Winston, for instance.”
      “I don’t think Winston would make the claim without something having happened”

      True, Winston will not marry this cesspit of lairs, he has to much to lose.

      He is the most senior very experienced politician we have in Parliament now so don’t take the matter lightly.

      These current lot are just out of playschool compared to his experience don’t you know.

      “young heads don’t grow on old shoulders please”
      He will have been got at by black ops to try and undermine him, that’s why he has indicated he will swear under oath that this coercion is now going on.

      • mickysavage 4.1.1

        Notice the terms of Collins’ denial:

        I have never approached him and never authorised anyone to approach him. He would be the last person in the world I would ever want to approach.”

        No staff member of hers would be in any doubt of her opinion of Mr Peters and his politics, she said.

        The allegation is that someone outside of Parliament approached Peters, not a staff member of hers. The approach could theoretically have been made by someone without authority but with the role of sounding out how Peters may respond to the idea.

        And Farrar reckons he knows who this person is.

        I suspect there is a bit more to this story yet.

        • yeshe 4.1.1.1

          lusk lusk lusk, and then lusk.

        • Clemgeopin 4.1.1.2

          Plunket suspected that the emissary could be Lusk and asked him on line to call the station, without response from Lusk yet.

          • yeshe 4.1.1.2.1

            Thx Clemgeopin … good to know .. let’s see .. if Winston does his suggested affidafavit and names Lusk ?? Big fireworks. Very big fireworks.

            Popcorn ready …

            and waiting for whaledump to fill in some more gaps ….

            • Clemgeopin 4.1.1.2.1.1

              Winston said he is speaking the truth and can attest to that through an affidavit, which is a very serious matter.

              As far as naming the emissary, Winston will not do that because of confidentiality, good faith and trust with the emissary. In the same way, he did not reveal his sources in the case of Winebox scandal and other issues brought to his notice during the course of his political life.

              • yeshe

                Would he not be required to name the ‘suspect’ in the affidavit ?

                • Clemgeopin

                  No, I don’t think so.

                  In this case because someone asked Winston if he was telling the truth about this issue and if he was prepared to say that through an affidavit and Winston said, yes, he would be prepared to do so.

                  I don’t doubt that Peters is not telling the truth re the missive from the emissary.

                  Peters may be wily, but he is a man of honour and integrity. In my opinion, he simply would not lie on a matter as this.

                  Even Michelle Boag (ex National president) and Mike Williams (Ex Labour president) and Sean Plunket think that Winston is telling the truth. They were on the talk back panel this morning. (Radio live). [I may be wrong here, but I think it was mentioned that Hooton too knows who that emissary was!]

                  • yeshe

                    I am not doubting Winston either. Let’s see what emerges. And here we are .. it’s lead headline on TV 3 news tonight ! Smile and Wave is wobbling … popcorn ready …

                    What you write about Boag .. is she willing to attack Collins now I wonder ? She has been noticeable by her absence. They are so devious, duplicitous, dirty and disastrous for us all.

        • Tracey 4.1.1.3

          and farrar is a paragon of truth telling. why only yesterday he and his taxpayers union were adamant NZ ON AIR had funded kill the pm…

  5. emergency mike 5

    Well if it did happen then of course Collins has to lie. She doesn’t really have an alternative. Assuming that the person who approached Peters is loyal to Collins, then all they have to do is keep their mouth shut and Peters has no proof.

    As for the rumours that she “has something” on Key being probably mischievous, what else are we supposed to think about the fact that she is still a minister? In some way or another, Key can’t fire her without shooting himself and/or his party’s election chances in the foot.

    And it’s more than just not wanting to fire yet another minister so close to an election. Key’s not stupid – her offence and the PR damage it is costing by not firing her are both too serious.

  6. Ad 6

    Judith Collins is just the gift that keeps on giving.

    Her face is close to interchangeable with Mr Slater’s in the public mind.

    Encore! Encore!

  7. Ad 7

    She’s just the gift that keeps on giving.

    Encore! Encore!

  8. Kevin Welsh 8

    And the timing has been perfect.

  9. Kiwiri 9

    his bizarre paralysis as Collins keeps dragging National through the dirt

    Win or lose on Sep 20, JK will not be around for long in Parliament.

  10. Lanthanide 10

    “The rumours that she “has something” on Key are probably mischievous – but it would explain his bizarre paralysis as Collins keeps dragging National through the dirt.”

    Susie Ferguson asked Collins this on MR, and she said it was absolutely untrue. But of course she’d say that.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 10.1

      It went from ‘No Brash No cash’ to No Collins No Cash.

      She has big donors backing her, thats the reason Key is powerless.

  11. weka 11

    So ‘someone’ approached Peters to see if he would work with Collins as PM? Whoopdefuckingdo. Aapparently this happened earlier in the year, not recently. This is Peters making his pre-election play, pure and simple. Let’s not get distracted by how this plays into the taking National down meme (or watching them fall). The thing to keep an eye on here is what Peters is really up to. And to remember that whatever it is, he can’t be trusted by people that want a left wing government.

    btw, has Peters said yet if he would work with Collins?

    • yeshe 11.1

      Not that I have seen; but he is on record as saying that if he were prime minister, she would have been long gone. Pretty clear to me.

      Also, I just saw him interviewed .. TVNZ I think .. and asked about Collins saying she would have nothing to do with his ‘racist’ politics. His reply was ” Really, she said that?”. He was visibly aghast at the question and even looked like he had just thrown up a little bit in his mouth.

      • weka 11.1.1

        Ah, thanks, yes I remember him saying that in the interview yesterday (about Collins being gone). So that leaves Key, English, Bennett, Joyce, plenty to choose from.

    • disturbed 11.2

      Weka,
      So who in this lot are actually to be trusted?

      You asked has Peters said yet if he would work with Collins?

      Answer no no no, and we know he wont want to mix with this filth.

      • weka 11.2.1

        Peters is quite capable of forming a govt with National or supporting them on C and S. He is not a friend of the left, although a left wing govt might ally with him.

        He’s on record this week as saying that he will talk to the largest party first. That’s National.

        What this whole Collins approached me thing is probably about is him positioning himself for the best possible deal post-election.

        If you want a left wing govt, then party vote on the left: Labour, GP, IMP. Pretty simple. If really you don’t trust any of those, it’s probably time to take to the streets.

    • emergency mike 11.3

      +1 weka. He’s a smooth operator and a far better politician than Key. He’s been in this game for a long, long time for good reason.

      Whether it’s true or not, whether it helps the left or not, this is absolutely a play. Never forget that Winston’s in it for Winston.

      • yeshe 11.3.1

        Sometimes he has been in it for NZ. Winebox ? Not much he gained from that, more losses than gains. We benefitted well.

        • emergency mike 11.3.1.1

          “Not much he gained from that”

          You mean aside from the mountains of publicity?

        • Clemgeopin 11.3.1.2

          That was a truly heroic effort from Winston against tremendous odds! I have much respect for him on that issue and on him standing firm against the sell off of Air NZ and getting kicked out by Jenny Shipley for that.

          I am two ticks Labour guy as I want a strong Labour presense (33% to 36% at least) in the next government and less presence of the minor parties such as the Greens, IMP, NZF.

        • weka 11.3.1.3

          “Sometimes he has been in it for NZ. Winebox ?”

          That’s the tricky thing though. He does do things that help NZ. But you can’t rely on that, unless you believe NZ’s interests are aligned with his.

          btw, did anyone else pick up on Peters saying in the interview yesterday that he would support a grand coalition (National/Labour) rather than sending the country back to the polls in the case of a hung election?

          • karol 11.3.1.3.1

            He didn’t say he’d “support” it. He said he could see it as a possibility, with NZ First sitting on the cross benches.

            • weka 11.3.1.3.1.1

              From what I remember he said he would prefer a grand coalition over a return to the polls, and this was in response to being asked if he would send the country back to the polls (to which he said an emphatic no). That’s what I mean about supporting.

              • yeshe

                weka .. can you recall where you heard that from WP ? Thx

                • weka

                  It was in the interview with Paddy Gower (yesterday?). I can’t see a link in this thread, but if you put ‘weka’ +’peters’ into te search box, it shouldn’t be too hard to find a link on one of the recent convos.

              • karol

                As I recall the context was Winston being asked about which party NZF would go with after the election. He was saying there could be another option other than NZF holding the balance of power and making the decision about whether the Nats or Labour would lead the government.

                He said that, voters wouldn’t like being asked to go back to the polls, and no party would want to be responsible for not allowing a government to be formed. He could see a grand coalition as one possible outcome, with NZ First sitting on the cross benches.

                • yeshe

                  Thx. My, but we live in an interesting time just now ! And maybe whaledump will come home soon from sunny Vanuatu to educate us some more …

  12. disturbed 12

    Weka, you said;
    “So that leaves Key, English, Bennett, Joyce, plenty to choose from.”

    National have all been permeated with dirty politicians so there are not any to choose from and all the newbies coming I are yet more right wing radical don’t you all see.

    We have a large cancer growing inside all politicians hive and when a bee hive gets infected what do they do?

    • weka 12.1

      Sure, but I don’t see all of the corruption within National as precluding Peters from working with them. It’s not like he’s squeaky clean, and he plays hardball with power.

  13. wyndham 13

    Anyone seen or heard of Steven Joyce since his attack dog episode with Grant Robertson ? The man, once everywhere every day, seems to have vanished. Perhaps he’s busy fixing things.

  14. Valleyman 14

    He hasn’t sacked Collins so far over any of her involvement over Orivida or Slater so what’s different know???

  15. Nic the NZer 15

    Move along, move along, nothing to see here, the justice ministers office was clearly notified that Winston had been approached over the coup attempt.

  16. One Anonymous Bloke 16

    I assume Peters and Collins are telling the truth.

    He’s been approached by someone who hasn’t told Collins about the approach. Nats looking for a way to stay on the Treasury benches post election. They know the polls give them five points the electorate will not, and on that basis, without Winston, the election was lost even before Hager exposed the truth about Key.

    Perhaps the approach was merely made to test the waters. Who knows, who cares. If the enemy is busy, tire him out. Peters is piling on, and no doubt putting himself further offside with National. Unless of course they need him, in which case the dead rats are being warmed up.

  17. Pascals bookie 17

    Not sure if this has been touched on, (sorry if it has I’ve not got time to read comments), but lprent might want to have a word with a journo re this, from Collins:

    As Justice Minister she has championed laws against cyber-bullying.But she said she had not been a party to cyber-bullying Mr Pleasants any more than the Labour Party was in the cyber-bullying she alleged took place on the left-leaning blog The Standard.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11315804

    that’s a fairly specific accusation that the Labour Party has handed info about an individual to a blogger on this site, who has launched an attack on the individual in a post where death threats were then made in comments.

    I’m not here as much as I used to be, but I don’t recall anything like that sort of thing going on.

    • Lanthanide 17.1

      I mentioned it in Open Mike earlier today.

      That NZ Herald story is a bit of a misquote. On RNZ interview this morning she said that The Standard was a Labour Party website, and that there is cyberbullying that goes on here.

      She didn’t say that the LP handed private details to The Standard which then resulted in death threats.

    • weka 17.2

      Bet she is referring to Josie Pagani’s couple of whines about being bullied here.

      The Herald bit says that Collins is saying that the bullying exists but Labour isn’t involved (just like she/National isn’t). Her logic is skewed, and yeah the bit about ts being a Labour party site, journos need pulled up sharp on that one.

  18. AmaKiwi 18

    When someone acts illogically, we naturally look farther and farther afield to explain why.

    Key’s refusal to dump Collins is illogical. Naturally the press will continue wilder and wilder speculation until someone can explain what is presently unexplainable.

    Bye, bye Key. You’ve brought it on yourself.

    I never thought I would write this but here goes, “Judith, thank you so much. You’ve been wonderful.”

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