Seymour undermines vaccine roll out for Maori

81 comments on “Seymour undermines vaccine roll out for Maori ”

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1. Patricia Bremner 1

   6 September 2021 at 1:58 pm

   Seymour is representing ideas that are an anathema to the greater percentage of us. He presents the "acceptable" face of unacceptable ideas. He is using Key's style.
   • Gosman 1.1

     6 September 2021 at 3:26 pm

     Given one of the major factor in risk around death or serious complications with Covid-19 is age and that Maori have higher full vaccinations rates in the at risk age brackets (over the age of 50) than NZ European can you explain how his views on focusing on ethnicity is unacceptable?
     • UncookedSelachimorpha 1.1.1

       6 September 2021 at 3:52 pm

       OK…so I downloaded the current NZ vaccine data from here. (spreadsheet link near bottom of page, was up to date to 31 August when I downloaded it today)

       Then I added up first or second doses in people aged over the age of 50 and divided by the total population of each cohort for a) Maori and b) Europeans / other.

       This is what I got:

       1st Dose Maori = 67.0%

       1st Dose European / Other = 77.4%

       2nd Dose Maori = 46.0%

       2nd Dose European / Other = 49.9%

       Looks like Gosman is wrong. Where did you get your 'facts'?
       • Andre 1.1.1.1

         6 September 2021 at 3:59 pm

         The goose might be looking at the brightly coloured table partway down that page.

         (I'm kinda suspicious there might be errors in that table: when they show an average number for "all ages" that is lower than every single age group number going into that average, I'm wary. Maybe they're including under-12s in the "all ages"?)
         • UncookedSelachimorpha 1.1.1.1.1

           6 September 2021 at 4:03 pm

           You mean the graph with the "Groups"? I've made a comment below….
           • Andre 1.1.1.1.1.1

             6 September 2021 at 4:10 pm

             No, the table with green, yellow and red backgrounds about halfway back up to the start of the page from where the goose's link (comment 9) opens.

             It purportedly shows vaccination rates for Maori and Pasifika split out by age group, DHB, and first and second dose.

             It appears to show that for 65+ Maori, vaccination rates are quite similar to NZ European, and for 50 to 64, Maori vaccination rates are only a little bit behind.
             • UncookedSelachimorpha …

               6 September 2021 at 4:48 pm

               Got it. Maori are closer in older groups compared to younger groups, but still well behind on average above 50 years old (and not more vaccinated, as Gosman states).

               Of course the much lower rates in young Maori place older Maori at greater risk regardless, assuming they are in close proximity to young family members.
         • Nic the NZer 1.1.1.1.2

           6 September 2021 at 5:52 pm

           Sounds like a Simpsons Paradox.
     • Tricledrown 1.1.2

       6 September 2021 at 3:58 pm

       Gosman Maori Pacifica and Asian are all at higher risk from Covid 19 .With these cohorts succumbing to the worst effects 10 years younger.
       • I Feel Love 1.1.2.1

         6 September 2021 at 4:36 pm

         The one Delta death (so far) was māori.
         • DukeEll 1.1.2.1.1

           6 September 2021 at 7:30 pm

           A tragedy, not a statistic.

           how many people have committed suicide during lockdowns?

           [corrected typo in user name]
           • Frank Macskasy 1.1.2.1.1.1

             7 September 2021 at 8:21 am

             "Coronavirus: Suicide rates went down during lockdown in NZ, Australia, other countries – study" – Newshub, 14/04/2021

             https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/04/coronavirus-suicide-rates-went-down-during-lockdown-in-nz-australia-other-countries-study.html
             • Tricledrown …

               7 September 2021 at 9:33 am

               Well said Frank
2. roblogic 2

   6 September 2021 at 2:07 pm

   Signalling to his alt right base like Lee Williams. what a fwit. Rawiri Waititi is pretty scathing

   When it comes to his pākeha whakapapa he’s David Seymour, when it comes to his Māori whakapapa he’s David Seeless! This is an all time low for this fella but I’m not surprised! Deliberately sabotaging the most vulnerable and under vaccinated people is shameful!
3. Frank Macskasy 3

   6 September 2021 at 2:19 pm

   Vile stuff, even for him. Effectively sabotaging efforts to help Maori. Its straight out of Trumps playbook.

   This will come back to bite him.
   • Gosman 3.1

     6 September 2021 at 3:11 pm

     Have you bothered to look at the vaccination rates among Maori and NZ Europeans in the most vulnerable age groups?
     • UncookedSelachimorpha 3.1.1

       6 September 2021 at 3:55 pm

       Doesn't seem like you have…
     • Frank Macskasy 3.1.2

       7 September 2021 at 8:22 am

       Refer you to this post from above:

       https://thestandard.org.nz/seymour-undermines-vaccine-roll-out-for-maori/#comment-1813992

       Happy to have helped.

       [link edited to make it appear in full and functional]
4. Gabby 4

   6 September 2021 at 2:31 pm

   Dick move, which I'd consider wagering a small sum he'll compound by claiming he was speaking to his Maori followers, but kinda forgot to mention. (unless it's that emotional staffer again)
5. I Feel Love 5

   6 September 2021 at 2:31 pm

   What a creep.
6. gsays 6

   6 September 2021 at 2:40 pm

   Someone needs to tell him he doesn't need to out scumbag National to get ahead.
7. rod 7

   6 September 2021 at 2:49 pm

   Seymour is all mouth and trousers and just loves the sound of his own voice
8. AB 8

   6 September 2021 at 2:51 pm

   Oh no – did David say the quiet bit out loud? The psychopathologies of the far right are so unsurprising.
9. Gosman 9

   6 September 2021 at 3:01 pm

   The actual data suggests that in the demographics with the highest risk of serious complications or death from Covid-19 (i.e. 50 years and over) Maori have vaccinations rates at or even above NZ Europeans. It is in the lower age brackets where they fall behind especially in the 12-29 age group. Given the younger average age of Maori in NZ that will bring the rate down for Maori as a whole. As we are looking to protect the most vulnerable segment of our society first focusing on ethnicity rather than age specific groupings seems likely to increase rather than decrease risk of harm.

   https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data#group
   • Cricklewood 9.1

     6 September 2021 at 3:21 pm

     Jeez Gosman you'll get banned for posting facts like that…

     Perhaps muppets like Billy TK and Hannah Tamaki have had a greater influence amongst younger Maori?
   • lprent 9.2

     6 September 2021 at 3:24 pm

     Basically, Seymour was a complete dickhead. Your wanking on irrelevancies and ignoring the obvious rejoinders is in my opinion just simply objectionable.

     You could just as easily argue that all other possible correlations should be ignored as well. Diabetes, weight, asthma, heart disease, smoking, disabilities etc etc should also be ignored as

     As we are looking to protect the most vulnerable segment of our society first focusing on [anything] rather than [anything else] groupings seems likely to increase rather than decrease risk of harm.

     Using that tactic, as well as being weak intellectually, is hypocritical. You can use exactly the same tactic to argue against anything you like. Just keep moving the health outcomes for purely ideological reasons other than simple health statistics.

     There is a high correlation with bad health outcomes for Maori as a population in every epidemic we have had in NZ since 1830. Just as there is with any island population with a high separation from the global diseases that live mostly in Eurasian populations.

     Just as there is a correlation of inordinate level of skin cancers in Northern Europeans populations in sunnier climates than their ancestors – yet curiously I don't see you arguing against discrimination in favour of preferential testing in that ethnic group. Or that the incidence of breast cancer in females far exceeds that in males (yes XY can get breast cancer as well) – but I don't see you worrying about that.

     Health systems generally don't look for the ideological underpinnings of a correlation when looking for what to test or treat – they look at statistical correlations first and foremost. Sometimes they may find

     There is a reason why you are the only person on this site who has a hypocrisy rule named after them. Now I think that you appear to be a racist bigot for ideological reasons as well.. It appears that David Seymour is an irresponsible bigot as well – for ideological reasons – or probably just because it allows his party to turn out the racist bigot vote.

     I think I'll just run with the latter assumption.
     • Gosman 9.2.1

       6 September 2021 at 3:27 pm

       I presume you have done the analysis on this have you? What is the comparative risk of death or serious health complications as a result of Covid-19 with a 50 year old versus a 20 year old?
       • lprent 9.2.1.1

         6 September 2021 at 3:48 pm

         Of course I have. It sounds like you are back in the dark ages (pretty typical behaviour from a ACT supporter). Delta completely changed the the relative hospitalisation rates on age groups – they are much more even across the groups. This isn't the original covid-19, alpha or beta.

         With Delta, children and people under the age of 50 have close to a double probability of hospitalisation compared to their probability in previous waves.

         All of the current infections are delta, even when you account for vaccinations by age groups.

         And that still doesn't factor in the other contributing factors correlated like ethnicity, and previous condition. ie the ones you and David Seymour appear to want to ignore for some racist ideological or bigotry or voting point. If you are Maori or Polynesian in NZ, the probability of requiring hospitalisation is still a lot higher than for Europeans or Asians with an ancestry in the Eurasian continent.

         So have you looked at the relative statistics for infections, hospitalisations, long-covid, or death for Maori, Polynesion, diabetics, smokers, etc with delta. Or are you just pulling irrelevant arguments out of your arse as usual?

         I see that Incognito even put up a link explaining that for you.
         • Gosman 9.2.1.1.1

           6 September 2021 at 3:54 pm

           Studies done on the matter suggest the higher hospitalisation and death rates among younger people are related to the fact they are less likely to be be vaccinated than the older demographic groups.

           "

           Both men said not only are they seeing a shift in the age of their COVID patients, but they are also seeing significantly fewer deaths among the elderly population. Both believe that's clearly tied to the state's very high vaccination rates among its elderly population.

           "So we're seeing fewer deaths, and there have been a few deaths of folks that are vaccinated in those age groups — but they have other conditions," Balcezak said. "They have heart failure, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease or other conditions that are contributing an added burden of disease. And add COVID on top of the burden that they're already carrying, and it just tips them over."

           Kumar said he has no doubts that vaccines have saved the elderly population from the devastation of the delta variant."

           Which ultimately highlights why focusing on age demographics and comorbidities rather than something as blunt as ethnicity is the best approach to rolling out vaccinations.

           https://ctmirror.org/2021/08/10/covid-hospitalizations-skew-younger-as-delta-variant-spreads-in-ct/
           • lprent 9.2.1.1.1.1

             6 September 2021 at 4:21 pm

             but they are also seeing significantly fewer deaths among the elderly population.

             Also irrelevant.

             Deaths aren't the primary public health issue and certainly shouldn't be used in arguments . I have no idea why people concentrate on that.

             Hospitalisations and long-covid reactions are – that is what chews the resources and overloads the health system to the breaking points. Deaths in our health system are just the fail point of hospitalisations. If the hospitalisations increase, then eventually they will strain the system to increase morbidity.

             That is why every statement about the objectives of the covid-19 epidemic campaigns is about reducing the effects on the health system – not about deaths (although that would be desirable as well).

             As I commented elsewhere, you have a habit of being a hypocrite about what data you choose to look at – just like ACT does.
       • Incognito 9.2.1.2

         6 September 2021 at 3:51 pm

         Here you are, Gosman: https://www.nzma.org.nz/journal-articles/maori-and-pacific-people-in-new-zealand-have-a-higher-risk-of-hospitalisation-for-covid-19-open-access

         Your buddy David and you are just plain wrong about this. I cannot explain this as plausible but only as wilful denial, given the data to the contrary of your [plural] misleading communications.
         • Gosman 9.2.1.2.1

           6 September 2021 at 3:58 pm

           That mainly deals with Pasifika not Maori and the associated data highlights that it is the Pasifika community that should be the main target not Maori if we are using ethnicity to decide who is targeted for vaccination.
           • Incognito 9.2.1.2.1.1

             6 September 2021 at 4:09 pm

             I’ve said it twice now: wilful denial. You are doing nothing but trolling, just as David Seymour is doing.

             You know what, I’ll let you dig your hole deeper for a while so that everybody can see what is going on here; they can learn about David Seymour by studying you here in full gory.

             Hint: you have clearly misrepresented the paper and the Authors’ conclusions. You have twisted reality to conform to your narrative of anti-Māori propaganda.
             • lprent …

               6 September 2021 at 4:25 pm

               I shoved him on to a temporary moderation. I have better things to do than to deal with a Gosman trolling storm where he doesn’t try to argue – he just writes hypocritical bullshit with bullshit links.

               I’ll let anything through that contains an argument or a link that pertains to correlations with Maori ethnicity vs the general population or explains ACT or David Seymour’s purpose in this political act. Which is the topic of the post.

               But I will batch check the moderation queue when I have time to do it.
               • Incognito …

                 6 September 2021 at 8:20 pm

                 He’s gobsmacked.
           • Incognito 9.2.1.2.1.2

             6 September 2021 at 5:21 pm

             In your rather transparent attempt to deflect you overlooked the simple fact that both Māori and Pacific people have substantially higher risk of hospitalisation for COVID-19, when adjusted for age. In other words, ethnicity is an important factor and one that needs to be addressed, in contrast and exact opposite to the propaganda masquerading as reckons from David Seymour and you.
   • Incognito 9.3

     6 September 2021 at 3:34 pm

     Unbelievable that you ignore or downplay the dominant factor, which is ethnicity, especially Māori, not age. In fact, your incorrect and erroneous conclusion would put others at higher risk than they are already. It is this kind of attitude and ‘thinking’ that is perpetuating engrained racism and discrimination in society and consequently, inequity with all its perverse outcomes.
     • Gosman 9.3.1

       6 September 2021 at 3:41 pm

       Do you have evidence for ethnicity playing the key role in death or serious health issues versus age or pre-existing health issues?

       Here is data in relation to the comparative risks based on age from the CDC. Note people over the age of 50 to 64 are 35 times more likely than those in their 20's to die from the disease and 4 times more likely to get hospialised.

       https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html
       • Incognito 9.3.1.1

         6 September 2021 at 4:00 pm

         In another reply to you, I’ve provided a link to a scientific paper in a peer-reviewed NZ journal by NZ authors on the exact topic of this thread, i.e., the NZ situation. It and other data and studies show clearly that David Seymour and you are in wilful denial of the situation in NZ. Ignorance is no excuse but you have gone so much lower already. There is no way that a semi-intelligent person can deny study upon study upon report upon review, et cetera, unless they have an agenda. I don’t like your agenda, not one bit …
       • lprent 9.3.1.2

         6 September 2021 at 4:05 pm

         FFS – don't you read those papers? Or are you incapable of thinking? Even your example is out of date as your thinking.

         Look at the dates. "From March 1, 2020 through July 3, 2021, accessed on July 12, 2021"

         Delta only started in the US about the start of July. By the end of the July it was roughly 80% of cases. So the delta content in a study that lasted for about 18 months was probably less than 2%. How about trying to live in the present rather than in a mythical past with the rest of ACT?

         It also had a completely different age profile for hospitalisations. This has been extensively reported and I have seen a few papers on it as well..

         Age is a co-factor – it isn't the whole risk profile like you and that other numb-witted bigot David Seymour seem to think.
       • Drowsy M. Kram 9.3.1.3

         6 September 2021 at 4:56 pm

         Do you have evidence for ethnicity playing the key role in death or serious health issues versus age or pre-existing health issues?

         The idea that ethnicity contributes to disparate health outcomes is uncontroversial, but some downplay that contribution and 'poo poo' the idea that those disparities stem from structural/institutional racism/discrimination – what motivates them?

         Actual Racial/Ethnic Disparities in COVID-19 Mortality for the Non-Hispanic Black Compared to Non-Hispanic White Population in 353 US Counties and Their Association with Structural Racism [30 Aug.]

         Results: Ninety-three percent of the counties in our study experienced higher death rates among the Black compared to the White population, with an average ratio of Black to White death rates of 1.9 and a 17.5-fold difference between the disparity in the lowest and highest counties. Three traditional measures of structural racism were significantly related to the magnitude of the Black-White racial disparity in COVID-19 mortality rates across counties.

         Conclusions: There are large disparities in COVID-19 mortality rates between the Black and White populations at the county level, there are profound differences in the level of these disparities, and those differences are directly related to the level of structural racism in a given county.

         The Racialized Pandemic: Wave One of COVID-19 and the Reproduction of Global North Inequalities [11 Aug.]

         We document the broad patterns of COVID-19 as it affects minority communities. We present a theoretical framework rooted in Global North democracies’ racial and ethnic legacies to analyze the health and economic disparities between these communities and the white majority population. Marshalling first-cut empirical evidence from the United States, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and Sweden, we find patterns of the pandemic’s distribution consistent with how the burden of racial and ethnic legacies endures: people from minority communities have worse health and economic outcomes under normal circumstances, inequalities the COVID-19 crisis has exacerbated. The comparison shows that the impact of racial and ethnic discrimination on pandemic policy outcomes is not unique to the United States. Health inequalities stemming in part from patterns of institutional racism and discrimination perversely help reproduce these societal inequities. We find that governments’ initial responses have failed to mitigate the disproportionate impact of this health and economic crisis on minority communities because they did not acknowledge or address the particular challenges that these groups face.
   • UncookedSelachimorpha 9.4

     6 September 2021 at 4:02 pm

     Nope, that link doesn't show what you are saying. If you actually download the spreadsheet that explains what the "Groups" are in the graph you link to, it tells you what they are, and none have ANYTHING TO DO WITH ETHNICITY.

     The graph specifically says the definitions are in the spreadsheet…why are you making stuff up?

     At a glance, on every metric Maori are behind the curve for vaccination.
     • Gosman 9.4.1

       6 September 2021 at 4:06 pm

       Download the underlying dataset. There is a tab with ethnicity data.
       • UncookedSelachimorpha 9.4.1.1

         6 September 2021 at 4:50 pm

         You mean the tab that shows that your statement at 1.1 "Maori have higher full vaccinations rates in the at risk age brackets (over the age of 50) than NZ European" is a made up lie?

         That tab?
10. Robert Guyton 10

    6 September 2021 at 3:17 pm

    Yes he is blowing the "preferential treatment" dog-whistle. Yes, he is vile. Yes, his adherents (*tūtae to a blanket) will be thrilling to his truthin'.
11. Pete 11

    6 September 2021 at 3:18 pm

    It doesn't matter, he'll be doing it to appeal to his ignorant and other racist supporters. They'll think he's more of a hero for his statements and attitude.
    • Gosman 11.1

      6 September 2021 at 3:23 pm

      When you mention ignorant do you know what the comparative vaccination rates among Maori and NZ Europeans are in the most vulnerable age brackets or are you making comments from a position of ignorance?
      • Andre 11.1.1

        6 September 2021 at 3:39 pm

        Older vaccinated people are still at higher risk when they live with and/or have a lot of contact with younger unvaccinated people. This extra vulnerability gets reduced when those younger people they live with get vaccinated.

        I'm under the impression older Maori in general are more likely to live with and/or have a lot of contact with younger people. So there's a good public health reason to prioritise those younger high-frequency contacts as well.
        • Gosman 11.1.1.1

          6 September 2021 at 3:42 pm

          If you are under the impression that is the case perhaps you could produce some data to support your view.

          [lprent: Perhaps before you should ask others to produce data, you should produce some relevant current data to support your view. So far you have managed to only produce historical data that ignores the current delta epidemic. This is not a request. Temporary moderation to review your trolling before you proceed to overtype comments. ]
          • Andre 11.1.1.1.1

            6 September 2021 at 3:45 pm

            If I was under the impression you were here in good faith, rather than trying to waste everyone's time by being an obnoxious troll, I might be bothered.

            But you're not worth it.
            • dv 11.1.1.1.1.1

              6 September 2021 at 5:16 pm

              Good point Andre. Gosman is not worth time

              Seymour is asking people to lie. Oh so very ethical and honest
          • Incognito 11.1.1.1.2

            6 September 2021 at 5:07 pm

            An Author or commenter posts data that cause Gosman inconvenience and possibly even discomfort. His response: keep asking for more data, more details, and try to drown the others in an ocean of requests for more data of increasing futility. Wear them down, wear them out, is the MO. Some Parties use the same trick with OIA requests and in Parliament AKA filibustering. It is not constructive because the intention is to slow down, stall, and even block the system from performing effectively and efficiently. AFAIK, it is a preferred tactic of the Right because of their idiosyncratic and ideological contempt for the State apparatus.
          • Gypsy 11.1.1.1.3

            7 September 2021 at 12:43 pm

            Hi Gosman. Seymour has done some good work in recent times, but he's got this wrong. Maori are being assisted here not because they are a 'racial' demographic but because they are an 'at risk' demographic with vaccination rates that are lagging behind other demographics.
      • Pete 11.1.2

        6 September 2021 at 4:43 pm

        I haven't checked numbers or other data around vaccinations today.

        My comment clearly wasn't about the data but about the politicking of Seymour. Of course I am not making comments from a position of ignorance, I know he has ignorant and other racist supporters. I know, along within everyone else, that he plays a glib game to appeal to them.
      • Tricledrown 11.1.3

        6 September 2021 at 4:49 pm

        Given that Maori live in larger family groups in poorer housing conditions with less chance of isolating any individuals who contract Delta variant.

        We need to protect whole extended families not just one age group .Even with vaccination it does not give 100% prevention of contracting covid Delta as we have seen with different ethnicities they have different family structures if we don't we will not be able to eradicate or live with Delta.

        If we do end up in a nsw situation elective surgery and other access to hospital and healthcare would seriously decline so flow on effects to the rest of the community would be serious. Then Seymour would be blaming ethnicities for not having high enough rates of vaccinations..

        Gosman you need some deradicliization treatment you could start with some ivermectin it may stop the BS that you try to worm into your threads.
      • Tricledrown 11.1.4

        6 September 2021 at 6:20 pm

        The only area Maori are getting vaccinated at a higher rate or equal is 50 to 64 in your link but that doesn't allow for the fact that Maori are more susceptible to Covid suffering serious illness at 10 years younger than European so as usual you only tell 1/2 truths.

        As for David Seymour has never lived in the real world he has gone from being an Groupie to a corporate yes man he knows his bread is buttered on both sides for pushing out lies for his master.

        I used cycle home past his student flat on a regular basis the only thing going on their was loud obnoxious mysoginistic alcohol filled bravado no study. he was stuck down a rabbit hole then now it's a rabid hole.
12. Stuart Munro 12

    6 September 2021 at 3:38 pm

    Shoddy play consistent with the moral and intellectual deficit that characterises ACT. We should look into a red card system for MPs that disgrace themselves.
    • mac1 12.1

      6 September 2021 at 5:14 pm

      We all get to play that card again in 2023.
13. Ad 13

    6 September 2021 at 4:43 pm

    A shoutout to all those Maori health workers at Te Whanau Waipereira, who have been one of the most important vaccinators across Auckland's north and west (I never thought I'd say that about the contractarian state).

    Thankyou for your work keeping us safe and healthy.

    I'll finally be getting my first shot with them tomorrow morning.
    • Patricia Bremner 13.1

      6 September 2021 at 5:12 pm

      Yes. Great news Ad.
14. coreyjhumm 14

    6 September 2021 at 5:00 pm

    I understand why Maori are getting this service but tonight when average kiwis of all ethnicities and ages watch the news a lot of them won't understand. My Maori friends and family don't understand why people can't organize an appointment like everyone else.

    I'd say just ignore this otherwise we risk giving him free air time and publicity for something that s huge number of lefty's who believe in universalism and despise what they see as preferential treatment seeing that he's done this and liking that he's done it.

    The grumpy lefty vote that swings between labour and nzfs populist universalism have nowhere to go at the moment and this is something a young Winston would have done, there's a lot of young people on the left and weirdly a lot of Maori who find it quite funny.

    So as gross as it is don't give him the attention he wants, don't feed the troll or up will go his polls.
    • Patricia Bremner 14.1

      6 September 2021 at 5:14 pm

      Yes, as Barfly said DNFTT.
    • lprent 14.2

      6 September 2021 at 5:17 pm

      So as gross as it is don’t give him the attention he wants, don’t feed the troll or up will go his polls.

      The problem is that

      1. Without the severe criticism heaped upon him by people who are not his target audience, he will just continue to do it. Basically he will do the Brash strategy. You have noticed Brash getting any less bigoted and trying to parlay it into political pressure over the years. Instead he just tries to ingrain racial bigotry deeper into the national norms. And he still has a faithful following that he flipped from National to providing a new base for Act.
      2. You really don’t want this kind of casual bigotry to become the norm. Next thing you’ll see attempts to Jim Crow the electoral laws to discourage people ‘not like us’ from voting or entering the national debate. There has already been more than enough already from National.
      3. Besides, the votes that he will be pulling are almost certainly from National and the conservative soft votes – so where is the harm in electoral terms? If it impacts on National, the Christian conservative parties, and the lunatic fringe – then it inherently makes National a better party at their base. Eventually that will lead to an improvement in their MPs and hopefully stop them going down the rabbit hole. Isolating the multiple lunatic fringes in Act isn’t a bad way to go – look at the piss-poor quality of the Act MPs to see what I mean. They make National MPs look like pick of the right.
      • Anne 14.2.1

        6 September 2021 at 6:59 pm

        
15. roblogic 15

    6 September 2021 at 5:14 pm

    I don't understand WTF is wrong with the Right wing in western politics. Trump has turned them all into anti-democratic, anti-science saboteurs who rely on propaganda and stirring racial division.
    • Gezza 15.1

      6 September 2021 at 5:28 pm

      They're worried about the demographic changes that are threatening their ideas of values & economic dominance. Divide & conquer. Classic Trump.
    • tc 15.2

      7 September 2021 at 3:22 pm

      Trump demonstrated how far belligerence can move the dial.

      The right already had the anti (science, climate change) tendancy combined with DP, dog whistling and 'my expert opinionator' MO long before the Donald.
      • roblogic 15.2.1

        7 September 2021 at 5:02 pm

        There used to be principled conservatives who believed in democracy and the rule of law. But the Right has been colonised by reactionary populists
16. joe90 16

    6 September 2021 at 6:09 pm

    Chippie said it best.

    https://twitter.com/antihobbes/status/1432538410154008581
17. Chris 17

    6 September 2021 at 6:30 pm

    Look on the bright side – even some Seymour supporters will see this as unacceptable and ditch him, perhaps even a significant number it's so despicable. He’s given many possibly a first-time glimpse of his true self.
18. Brendan 18

    6 September 2021 at 6:37 pm

    No point crying over it.

    This act has created thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of publicity for this vaccine program.

    Will it be used to get more people vacinated or not?

    Because Seymour and his supporters will not care, in fact for them the publicity will only encorage more people to their cause. (Barbara Streisand effect).
19. roblogic 19

    6 September 2021 at 6:46 pm

    A good graph. (via David Slack)

    
20. Anne 20

    6 September 2021 at 6:50 pm

    Definition of a human weed: someone who is thin and physically weak or who is weak in character.

    Definition of a garden weed: a wild plant growing where it is not wanted and in competition with cultivated plants.

    We know what to do with garden weeds. Throw them in a rubbish bag. Maybe we need to do the same with this human weed.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300400571/covid19-nz-lowlife-move–david-seymour-under-fire-for-tweeting-out-mori-vaccine-access-code
21. Fireblade 21

    6 September 2021 at 7:04 pm

    Tova nails it.

    https://www.twitter.com/TovaOBrien/status/1434704256947265542

    Urban Dictionary – Cockwomble: (noun) A person, usually male, prone to making outrageously stupid statements and/or inappropriate behaviour while generally having a very high opinion of their own wisdom and importance.

    Synonyms: fuckwit, shit-for-brains.
    • peter sim 21.1

      6 September 2021 at 9:01 pm

      cock is an innocent word. womble refers to imaginary cute creatures.

      seymour is neither innocent or cute.
22. Tricledrown 22

    7 September 2021 at 12:29 am

    Looking forward to Tova Obrien interviewing the hollow man / hologram.
    • I Feel Love 22.1

      7 September 2021 at 1:55 pm

      He's refusing to go on The Hui & face Mahirangi Forbes.
      • Incognito 22.1.1

        7 September 2021 at 2:03 pm

        Doesn’t surprise me given that he’s not willing to ensure their safety and wellbeing.
      • tc 22.1.2

        7 September 2021 at 3:49 pm

        That doesn't surprise me from 'spray and walk away' Seymour.

        Gutless. Forbes would use him as a floor mop so he'll avoid that.
23. roblogic 23

    7 September 2021 at 5:14 pm

    🤣 Exactly!

    https://twitter.com/MarkGraham_Akl/status/1435098666096750598?s=20
    • Forget now 23.1

      7 September 2021 at 10:27 pm

      "Equity" reminded me of this Rawiri Jansen piece I read in the Spinoff earlier today:

      The pandemic does not exist in a vacuum; it occurs in the context of a racialised society, in the context of long-standing historical inequities. The evidence is unequivocal and stable over decades – Māori and Pacific communities experience worse health outcomes. This arises from factors within the health system and differential access to the determinants of health, such as education, employment, income and housing…

      The Covid-19 vaccination programme is no different. Regrettably, it has not been designed for equity from the outset. Despite evidence that Māori and Pacific are exposed to much greater risk from Covid-19, and at much younger ages, the government decided against being guided by that science. The messages and the messengers have delivered a compelling motivation to part of the community to get vaccinated, but the choice of messages and messengers and indeed the media channels have privileged the least vulnerable communities.

      https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/07-09-2021/kia-ora-david-seymour-lets-talk-about-maori-health-and-vaccination/

      Which ties in with this Tamihere quote (hat-tip for link to Anne – somewhere upthread):

      Waipareira Trust CEO John Tamihere, who is involved with the Māori Party, said the group offered vaccines to all and sundry, and had vaccinated 48,000 Pakeha compared to about 10,000 Māori and Pasifika…

      He said middle-class people were taking advantage of the system by showing up without an appointment, as most centres had extra doses on hand, and the Trust were trying to make sure Māori knew they could do that too.

      “Everyone knows that this is happening, bar Māori. The middle-class people know that there is double the number available if you just show up. But if we make it overtly known to Māori suddenly it's a preference.”

      Tamihere said if they had actually been discriminating against other ethnicities he would understand the attack – but they were vaccinating everyone.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300400571/covid19-nz-lowlife-move–david-seymour-under-fire-for-tweeting-out-mori-vaccine-access-code

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