The first hustings

Written By: - Date published: 8:29 am, October 23rd, 2014 - 128 comments
Categories: Andrew Little, david parker, grant robertson, labour, leadership, Nanaia Mahuta - Tags:

I wasn’t at the first of the hustings meetings – I’m waiting for the show to come down south – but after talking with members who were there it sounds like Andrew Little made the biggest splash despite being on Grant Robertson’s home turf.

I’m on the record as favouring him but, like others, I was concerned he could be wooden sometimes. Turns out that last night he showed he’s both passionate and funny. With Paddy Gower making it clear he thought Little owned it.

And Tracey Watkins noted:

My thoughts are that Andrew Little gave the strongest speech, because he spoke the language that party faithful wanted to hear. His anger about the party “faffing and flailing” clearly struck a chord with the delegates in the hall. But Robertson was also strong. The big question for delegates to answer I guess is whether Little’s obvious appeal to the faithful will translate into broader support across the electorate. Or would Robertson do that job better? It’s a big call.

And Radio Live’s Jessica Williams described him as charismatic. That’ll surprise some people but I saw him speak to a mass rally in Christchurch in 2008 and it’s exactly what I walked away thinking.

I’ve never doubted that Little is the man to rebuild the Labour party into a campaigning and winning organisation and his claim he’s the one to “fix the machine” is spot on (and I’m sure there’s an engineers’ union joke in that somewhere), but it’s good to know he’s also got what it takes to front with the members and with the media.

It’s also worth taking a look at his email to members. There’s plenty in there I think should be taken on board by whoever wins:

Labour is the party that was built by working Kiwis for working Kiwis. We are still that party.

But we have to get our house in order. Because if we don’t then all we have is a bunch of good intentions gone to waste.

We need to fix the machine. We need to bring the pieces of the Labour movement back together and focus them on winning government and making changes we need to to build a fair society.
It’s a big task but it’s one we need to address one step at a time. First we need a caucus that communicates effectively within itself and with focus. Getting to that point will be the first job for the new Leader. Then the Leader and caucus need to reach out to the party and ensure they work well within themselves. Then we need to work alongside our affiliates.
We must find a common cause, within the movement, and with the many, many New Zealanders who want something better for themselves and for their families.
If we don’t find common cause as a movement we will never earn the trust of New Zealanders.
I can do this. I have done this before.
When I became the leader of the EPMU, one of New Zealand’s largest and most powerful unions, it was a house divided. I led the project to bring it together, to modernise it, to bring through new talent. I built a union which took our member’s issues out to the public, to the media, and won the argument again and again. We covered a lot of ground and during that time I dealt with organisations from small business to New Zealand’s biggest corporates on many different issues.
The one unifying thing, across all of these issues, was fairness. We got fair outcomes for our members and for New Zealand workers across the board because we worked together.
We are a party of immensely talented people. But right now we’re working as individuals, not as a collective movement.
We must fix this. We can.
We need to regain New Zealanders’ trust. We need them to know that when we make a promise, we can deliver. We need them to know we stand for them and their ambitions. Not just against what’s wrong but for what is right.
As part of that we must acknowledge the trust Māori put in Labour in delivering us six of the the seven Māori seats. They are our voters and we must make good on their return to us. We must ensure that Māori are represented well within Labour and that advancing their aspirations is a cornerstone of our Party. That’s what being representative is about.
People have asked me why I’m standing. I’m standing because I believe in Labour’s values. I believe in fairness and justice for workers, for families, for all New Zealanders. People aren’t getting a fair go right now, and I won’t tolerate a society in which the very few at the top gain at the expense of the many.
I won’t tolerate a society in which good jobs are destroyed and replaced with insecure work, in which people in the middle are squeezed tighter and tighter by the cost of living and have no way to get ahead. A society in which those at the bottom fall off the edge of the cliff.
These are the principles I have stood for throughout my life and they have been at the core of how I have led. They are the principles that the Labour Party embodies.
But to stand up for those principles we must be a united Party with new ideas and a real plan to win back the trust of New Zealanders.
I can bring the party together. I have the track record to prove it.
 
I’m asking you to vote for me as number 1 on your ballot so we can rebuild and win together.

128 comments on “The first hustings ”

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  1. James Thrace 1
    23 October 2014 at 8:40 am

    Nanaia was the only one to talk about community. The party needs to reconnect with communities rather than with people. All male candidates said “we need to talk to new Zealanders” which didn’t really give the how. Nanaia got my vote. Even though she’s softly spoken she has to convictions. The males were full of bluff and bluster. Twas like being at a cult rally when Parker spoke. >:)

    • Colonial Rawshark 1.1
      23 October 2014 at 9:02 am

      Spoke to a bunch of Labour Party mates last night. A fair number of us think that Nanaia has a better shot than most people assumed a few days ago. IMO she is worth putting up near the top of the list. I put her as no.1 myself.

      • ankerawshark 1.1.1
        23 October 2014 at 9:09 am

        Yes I spoke to a journalist there who completely dismissed her. As did Cullen.

        That P….es me off quite a lot.

        I can really see now why David Cunliffe wanted her a deputy first time around.

      • boldsirbrian 1.1.2
        23 October 2014 at 5:15 pm

        @ Colonial Rawshark (1.1)

        I have watched Nanaia for quite a few years now. She is softly spoken, but her words are well measured. There is one big difference between Nanaia and the other three. She is less ego-driven. Some have suggested that she has not done much in her long time in Parliament, but she has done everything that has been asked of her, and she has done it well. Very well.

        Even in this campaign, she states simply that she believes she has the talent to be the Leader, and effectively says to the voters: Please treat me as a serious candidate. I’ve been content with doing what has been asked of me, but in the situation the Party is in, I realise I have talents that I think are better than all of the others.

        Nanaia does not play games, and works more in the style of the two Green Leaders. It’s refreshing. Dirty John will not know how to treat her …. If he plays his normal dirty, he will come off looking even dirtier than he does now. Within the Party, I think Nanaia has the best possibility of uniting the different factions, and clearly presenting Labour to the public.

        Obviously Nanaia has my vote, unless something comes up over the next couple of weeks. All the candidates are capable. I’m ranking them at the moment Nanaia Mahuta, Grant Robertson, David Parker, Andrew Little. Mahuta, with Parker perhaps as Deputy.

        If you like the Green type of Leadership; Mahuta is the answer. That style has certainly worked for the Greens. There is no reason why it will not work just as effectively for Labour.

    • Murray Rawshark 1.2
      24 October 2014 at 3:00 am

      Nanaia Mahuta is the one I’d prefer to see win. I think she will have a better idea what the problems that need addressing are. Most importantly, I think she will be more able to collaborate with the two leftish parties.

  2. Chooky 2
    23 October 2014 at 8:42 am

    Sounds a good speech…Little and Mahuta would be a good combination , whoever is leader

    …the only thing that worries me about Little is whether he was endorsed by Michelle Boag…is that true?

    • ankerawshark 2.1
      23 October 2014 at 9:10 am

      Chooky at 2 I think Boag did endorse him, but that was when Cunliffe was still standing. Correct me if I am wrong about that someone!

      • phillip ure 2.1.1
        23 October 2014 at 1:28 pm

        @ anker..no..since then..

        • Karen 2.1.1.1
          23 October 2014 at 5:27 pm

          Boag, like Hooton, play games.

          They are PR trouts who are unlikely to ever say what they really think about any issue, but you should be particularly wary when they talk about anyone in the Labour Party.

          • phillip ure 2.1.1.1.1
            23 October 2014 at 5:46 pm

            she doesn’t care now..

            ..the main thing was getting rid of cunliffe..

            ..this lot of leadership candidates are ‘safe’ for the right..

            ..any one of them will do..

            ..both easy to beat..and even if they got in..there is no way any of them wd challenge the neo-lib-paradigm/status-quo..

            ..they have already won…

            ..they won when their campaign against cunliffe succeeded..

          • Rodel 2.1.1.1.2
            23 October 2014 at 7:53 pm

            Boag and Hooten are irrelevant even the Nats think so.

            They are as consequential to us as Cameron Slater. Ignore them…laugh at them.
            They’re really amusing though if you enjoy laughing at trivialities.
            Cameron who you say?

  3. Sirenia 3
    23 October 2014 at 8:51 am

    The media left after the speeches and the Q and A session was more telling. Little was the most conservative economically, also the most negative about the current situation. The others were more forward and outward looking. All good orators but there were those pin drop moments when Grant had the total attention of the audience even those not inclined to listen. He finished by quoting Gough Whitlam. He really has something of that Kirk/ Whitlam charisma which will grow with time.

  4. paddy 4
    23 October 2014 at 8:59 am

    Little and Mahuta as deputy would be the dream team. Robertson won 19,000 electorate votes but just 9,000 Party Votes. He paid just enough lip service to garnering PV to have plausible deniability. He is a traitor. He will never accept anyone else as leader.

    • Sirenia 4.1
      23 October 2014 at 9:59 am

      He worked loyally under all the leaders.

      • paddy 4.1.1
        23 October 2014 at 10:06 am

        Bollocks. He merely waited his chance to take over. He is a vainglorious traitor who would drag Labour to below 20%.

        [lprent: As sirena says – no evidence for that assertion and I see that you did a fire and forget. Banned 2 weeks. ]

        • Sirenia 4.1.1.1
          23 October 2014 at 10:12 am

          Again easy smear but no evidence

          • Bill 4.1.1.1.1
            23 October 2014 at 10:14 am

            How’s about the fact that he launched a very slick and polished leadership bid so fast? You think he just cobbled everything together over a day or two?

            I think not 😉

            • Colonial Rawshark 4.1.1.1.1.1
              23 October 2014 at 11:24 am

              I don’t understand people who think that well connected members haven’t seen and heard (either first hand or second hand) what is going on in other parts of the party. It is simply not credible to believe that Grant only started to think about running for the Labour Leadership on Sunday morning, Sept 21.

            • lprent 4.1.1.1.1.2
              23 October 2014 at 5:52 pm

              I suspect that every MP with leadership pretensions had thought about their plan B long before. If they haven’t then the people in their electorates and offices will have prepped for it anyway.

              I know that I was ready back in 1993 when Helen was watching my TV at the servos.

              • Bill …
                23 October 2014 at 9:24 pm

                I suspect that every MP with leadership pretensions had thought about their plan B long before.

                Nah. Those with long term, burning desires would certainly have been lining up their pieces and looking to play or maneuver in any given imaginable scenario…and trying to bring the most propitious state of circumstances to the fore.

                But that can’t be said of all current contenders.

      • Not a PS Shark Sashimi 4.1.2
        23 October 2014 at 2:06 pm

        Sarcasm?
        He manouvered the vain inexperienced Shearer into the Leadership in order to block Cunliffe so that he himself could roll Shearer when the time was right for his own elevation. Shearer now realises that and knows that Robertson was aware that Maryan Street was doing the numbers to roll him.

        Shearer now has no time for Robertson amd that is why he is pumping Parker.

        Sirenia, you are either totally ignorant of recent events in the Labour Party or you are a troll.

      • leftie 4.1.3
        23 October 2014 at 3:06 pm

        @Sirenia.

        I dispute that statement of loyalty. Robertson along with Shearer and Parker wasted no time in publicly displaying their disloyalty that further undermined the party, straight after the election.

      • leftie 4.1.4
        23 October 2014 at 3:15 pm

        Bill Drees28.3.3 6 October 2014 at 2:17 pm
        That gang suspected Cunliffe would sort them after the election. That is why they briefed the press before election night and started the campaign to dump Cunliffe. Nash briefed Hooton and Farrar and Cosgrove the Press Gallery. Ardern was used to do the numbers just like Maryann Street was used against Shearer. Cunliffe moved quickly to get Maori support by offering a joint Deputy possie. Nash fake candidacy was a cover to approach the Unions and some floating votes to see what was needed to bring them across to Robertson. The ABCs had to move before Cunliffe wiped them. Had Goff King Mallard retired in this term Robertson would have lost the core of the ABCs and any chance of the Leadership…..

        <ahref="http://thestandard.org.nz/a-little-goes-a-long-way/#comment-904935

        • Halcyon 4.1.4.1
          23 October 2014 at 10:19 pm

          Mmmm… the intrigue. And I thought that National were the only ones who were into dirty politics. Orare all politics dirty by definition.

        • Halcyon 4.1.4.2
          23 October 2014 at 10:19 pm

          Mmmm… the intrigue. And I thought that National were the only ones who were into dirty politics. Or are all politics dirty by definition.

  5. ankerawshark 5
    23 October 2014 at 9:05 am

    We were there and decked out in red!

    A good evening.

    Parker who is my 4th choice, confirmed himself as my fourth choice.

    Robertson performed well (as in performing, but that might be what it takes), so he may get bumped up from 3rd to second.

    Mahuta was great.

    Little was really great, but not perfect, but none of them were. Little’s comments were not like listening to political speak. They came across as genuine, deep. A big surprize for me was he is witty/funny. Not all the time, but when he’s funny its delightful.

    • Colonial Rawshark 5.1
      23 October 2014 at 9:09 am

      gawd don’t bump up anyone with fingerprints on the knives mate…just 2c worth there

      • ankerawshark 5.1.1
        23 October 2014 at 9:12 am

        Thanks CR. I am sure you are right and that’s how I truly feel, but I really want/need Labour to win.

        Am very much taking on board what you are saying.

      • Sirenia 5.1.2
        23 October 2014 at 9:30 am

        CR, that was unnecessarily nasty and without any evidence.

        • Colonial Rawshark 5.1.2.1
          23 October 2014 at 9:57 am

          Yes it was nasty. But I’ve been personally attacked in the party by the machine associated with Grant so my knowledge of this is first hand.

          • Sirenia 5.1.2.1.1
            23 October 2014 at 2:09 pm

            ‘Party machine?’ Sounds a wee bit paranoid. Besides I thought your man was in charge of the ‘party machine’ until a couple of weeks ago.

            • wekarawshark 5.1.2.1.1.1
              23 October 2014 at 2:25 pm

              “Besides I thought your man was in charge of the ‘party machine’ until a couple of weeks ago.”

              Is that naivity or sarcasm?

              • the pigman …
                23 October 2014 at 7:43 pm

                The YL/NZUSA/Rainbow/Robertson-boosting crew are back on TS. Pity they are not as smart as they think.

      • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 5.1.3
        23 October 2014 at 9:52 am

        There is the ancient strategy that is well-known among diplomatic circles: 借刀杀人.

        Btw, I was reading the following a few minutes ago.

        = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ==

        Give us some substance, Grant.

        I want Grant Robertson to win, but it kills me that he is saying nothing of substance. On Q and A this weekend, he was clearest when discussing ‘consequences’ for disloyal MPs. It really says something that his only clear-ish comments were about caucus knifings.

        While Grant has a slick campaign, he seems to think he can win without actually saying anything. Look at his five commitments: …

        What does any of this actually mean? I have no idea. You don’t get much vaguer than ‘Listen to what New Zealanders are saying about their hopes and aspirations’. Like the oxymoronic ‘Labour values’, these five priorities say nothing. This lack of substance is alarming.

        The same goes for Grant and Jacinda’s campaign slogan ‘New generation to win’. The slogan reeks of focus-group testing and writing by committee. It says nothing about their approach, just that they are new-ish and want to win.

        This is candy floss politics. Lots of colour, little meaning, and kind of enjoyable if you don’t think about the crap you’re swallowing. But you don’t win elections by regurgitating buzzwords and smiling sweetly, unless you’re John Key. And Grant is no John Key.

        Etc etc etc [No, this is not Shane Jones butting in]

        http://fundamentallyuseless.wordpress.com/2014/10/19/give-us-some-substance-grant/

      • lurgee 5.1.4
        23 October 2014 at 3:26 pm

        Nice to see that, no matter who wins, the infighting will continue.

  6. Colonial Rawshark 6
    23 October 2014 at 9:19 am

    “A house divided”

    Allusion to Shalespeare, very nice.

  7. Sirenia 7
    23 October 2014 at 9:27 am

    Just a correction to the original post – Wellington is Andrew Little’s home turf. He has lived here for years. They were both introduced as the local candidates. This meeting was for those in the southern North Island so was also for members in the Wairarapa, Porirua, Hutt and Kapiti. The Masterton Mayor MC’ ed.

    From my long observation of Labour history I have been trying to think who Andrew Little reminds me of. He is sort of a mix between Jim Knox and Arnold Nordmeyer. Good people and popular within the Party and unions. But with possibly limited appeal to a wider NZ. He has a good chance of winning this contest but I am unconvinced that the polls will move much longer term.

    [lprent: An odd way of looking at it. That is like saying that Helen Clark’s home turf was Wellington because she spent most of her time there for 30 years. You could say that of almost every electorate MP. However she and everyone else considered her home turf to be Mt Albert.

    He might live in Wellington, but the electorate party machine he works with is in New Plymouth. ]

    • Colonial Rawshark 7.1
      23 October 2014 at 11:19 am

      The issue is that the person who is leader is only 15% of Labour’s issues currently. An inability to convincingly set a clearly different direction and agenda to National is one major issue. The other is a significant cultural and social disconnect with many hundreds of thousands who should be natural Labour voters.

    • The Lone Haranguer 7.2
      23 October 2014 at 9:05 pm

      Sirenia/LPrent @ 7

      Tho his mum lives in New Plymouth (and was reported up there as a Nat supporter), Andrew Little was perceived as a carpet bagger politician who parachuted in, rather than as a local Taranaki politician at the time of the 2011 election.

      • Bruhahah 7.2.1
        24 October 2014 at 7:01 am

        I’ve heard that Helen Clark tried to get him to stand in Mt Albert in 2009 but he was worried that was carpetbagging.

    • Sirenia 7.3
      24 October 2014 at 8:01 am

      His publicity pictures are taken at his Island Bay home. He lives and works in Wellington. Helen Clark lived in Mt Albert, she spent as little time as possible in Wellington and camped in Premier House. To win an electorate you need to know everyone and every issue in the electorate and turn up to every possible event – and have an electorate infrastructure that alerts you to all these things. That is why Dunne clings to Ohariu, but also why Grant is and Helen was such good local MPs. Wellington Central is up there with Epsom among the wealthiest electorates in NZ – naturally right voting. New Plymouth should be a Labour seat, like Napier and Palmerston North, but it needs a lot of ongoing attention.

  8. Ad 8
    23 October 2014 at 10:17 am

    Can Labour walk and chew gum at the same time?

    Parliament has opened. So far the Greens appear to be the functioning Opposition.

    Is the best Labour can do a side show to the actual task of holding the government to account? Or is it only capable of the perpetual distraction of beauty contests?

    Great sport for the activists of course, but those MPs who got jobs should start doing them, rather than getting sucked into coyly sucking up to the next Girl Guide Captain. Get to work.

    • Tracey 8.1
      23 October 2014 at 10:27 am

      phil goff had a good go on isis and 1984 style reaction of key

    • phillip ure 8.2
      23 October 2014 at 1:37 pm

      @ ad..i wd challenge yr slagging of others other than the greens..as ‘real opposition’..not being..

      ..in the commentary i did yesterday i noted that all the opposition mp’s (with the exception of the serially-smirking ron mark) had done well..

      ..carter was good..and a few labour mp’s made good use of facts/figures as fulcrums around which to hang arguments..

      ..even that old warmonger goff was ok..f.f.s..!..(if you ignored his warmongering-record..)

      ..if they can all keep that up..they will have key/national on the back foot..

  9. Saarbo 9
    23 October 2014 at 10:23 am

    Little is probably the hardest to “attack”, and given National’s sophisticated dirty politics attacking machine, this may well be important in rebuilding labour.

    • Bill 9.1
      23 October 2014 at 10:33 am

      I disagree. The attack lines are obvious….unions have hi-jacked Labour….allusions to communism etc.

      On the ‘hard to attack’ front, I’m reckoning Nanaia poses the most serious problem for any Nat attack machine. The only line I’ve heard alludes to laziness…like you can be lazy and gain the leadership of a political party!?

      • paddy 9.1.1
        23 October 2014 at 11:34 am

        Sadly I agree Bill. Nanaia is too rotund to be taken seriously. Robertson understands this and that explains why he has been losing weight for the last year in anticipation of this contest. Interestingly a fat man can still retain some authority , think Gerry Brownlee, but not as leader. David Lange had his stomach stapled. Perception beats reality and ” fat lazy whahine” sadly is the perception of Nanaia despite it not being the reality.
        I wish she could get on a good diet and get a personal trainer.

        • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 9.1.1.1
          23 October 2014 at 11:45 am

          Shakespeare:
          Julius Caesar
          Act I, Scene 2
          Lines 284 ~

        • ankerawshark 9.1.1.2
          23 October 2014 at 12:25 pm

          Paddy at 9.1.1 Gosh and here was I worrying if people would be homophobic about Gran!!!!

          Paddy mate, normally I agree with you. But not on this stuff.

          David Lange and Norm Kirk were pretty big including when they were voted in. Remember the Big Norm saying.

          I take Nanaia very seriously. And anybody who hears her speak is very likely to as well.

          Surely, surely, surely the NZ voters don’t think that way about larger people, especially as being obese is so very common!

        • Rosie 9.1.1.3
          23 October 2014 at 12:45 pm

          “I wish she could get on a good diet and get a personal trainer.”

          Geez, what a shallow thing to say. She could well reply to you with “I wish you could gain an ounce of sensitivity and depth”.

          I take her seriously and couldn’t give a flying F what anyone looks like. She’s my top choice and I’ll be voting for her.

          I couldn’t make it to the meeting last night and appreciate James and Anker’s input here. As for the emails members are receiving, I’m not getting them as my email address changed a few days after I signed up a few weeks ago and so far my messages haven’t got through to anyone about my change of address, which is a bit frustrating.

          • paddy 9.1.1.3.1
            23 October 2014 at 1:48 pm

            Read my comment again. Perception versus reality. It shouldn’t matter what a person looks like but in the real world it does. You and I both know she can do the job but we do not reflect the public who are quick to dismiss overweight people and label them as greedy or lazy or both. I wish it were not so but it is. Some people only voted for Key because he smiled a lot.

            • wekarawshark 9.1.1.3.1.1
              23 October 2014 at 2:14 pm

              sorry mate but your own fat phobia is showing.

              • SHG …
                23 October 2014 at 2:27 pm

                Fat people have shown that they cannot manage systems. The perception is one of “how can we trust Chubby to balance a budget of dollars when Chubby can’t balance a budget of kilojoules?”

                • wekarawshark …
                  23 October 2014 at 2:30 pm

                  Stupid people have been shown that they cannot manage their prejudices.

                  If you think fatness is about lack of personal control you’re just ignorant.

                  • SHG …
                    23 October 2014 at 2:48 pm

                    If you think a fatty is ever going to get elected to government office in this country ever again, you’re just ignorant.

                    • wekarawshark …
                      23 October 2014 at 2:58 pm

                      Lolz, yeah no fat MPs ever again.

                      Better not have any Maari ones either eh?

                    • Rosie …
                      23 October 2014 at 3:02 pm

                      I didn’t think a blathering buffoon was ever going to be elected as PM again but I was wrong. Guess I’m ignorant.

                • ankerawshark …
                  23 October 2014 at 6:58 pm

                  What a load of b shit ShG

            • Rosie 9.1.1.3.1.2
              23 October 2014 at 2:54 pm

              Yes, I did read your comment again and it still says YOU wish she could get on a good diet etc…………

              If a person’s image matters in the “real world” then the “real world” is fucked. Is the real world, for example, to be found in the comments section of stuff.co.nz in that case? They have a daily bash at fat people and have a section called “well and good” that frequently has the latest fad diet and general round of fat shaming but it’s framed as faux concern. They are freaking obsessed. This is a disturbing idea of the “real world”.

              And yeah, good on Grant for losing that 20kg – he mentioned on the radio that he expects to live a longer life as a result. But why should this be of any concern to anyone but his own self? It’s his health and its nothing to do with us or the voters, just as Nanaia’s body is her own business. And she certainly shouldn’t have to pander to those that are intolerant of her image.

              • Ad …
                23 October 2014 at 3:09 pm

                Big Norm died of his own neglect. Do the political counterfactual.

                Lange the same, and had a stapling.

                Clark reluctantly understood image including photoshopping.

                Bennett shed 15k’s because she knew that’s what it takes.

                Shearer did weights throughout his short reign.

                Hold the Ring without self-will and you really turn into Gollum, or it kills you.

                • Rosie …
                  23 October 2014 at 3:55 pm

                  If anyone in a leadership position changes their body for any other purpose than their own personal health and sense of well being then they are just caving in to the intolerant fools who are probably so vacuous they are voting National any way. That’s quite a disempowering thing to do, changing your body to please others.

                  • SHG …
                    23 October 2014 at 4:53 pm

                    Just like changing the things you say, changing the way you speak, changing the way you dress, changing the places you go, changing the people you associate with, or any of the other things that are perfectly normal and expected parts of running for office.

                    • wekarawshark …
                      23 October 2014 at 6:47 pm

                      Your argument is based on the idea that fatness is a personal failing that could be controlled if the person wanted to or just tried hard enough. There is no evidence that that is true for any one person you think is too fat and shouldn’t be.

                      The structural issues involved in weight gain and to what extent people have agency over their own health and body image and wellbeing are complex, and it’s complete bullshit for lefties to be rendering all that invisible and reducing it to fucking personal choice. That shit belongs in the ACT party. Seriously. Educate yourself past your prejudices, you are factualy wrong about the causes of fatness.

                      That’s all irrespective of whether fatness is a political liability. Myself, I think Nanaia Mahuta is easily attractive enough to pass the media test. I’m sure she would have to go through some make over shit, in the same way that Clark did. But to suggest that changing a dress is equivalent to changing body shape and size is just daft.

                  • Chooky …
                    23 October 2014 at 8:33 pm

                    +100 Rosie…Dotcom is fat but he has brains and gets things done…he has substance like Nanaia Mahuta

                    ….people who obsess about their weight are often fluff heads …there is nothing else in their life except appearance

              • The Lone Haranguer …
                23 October 2014 at 9:22 pm

                Rosie,

                So if the “real world” is shallow and obsessed, (and it does appear to be on a lot of levels), then are chunky politicians – both male and female – to not chase their votes?

                I would suggest that the “real world” shallow and obsessed voters are a sizable group, and may well outnumber various of the Labour factional groups out there – for example, self serving unionists and the gaggle of gays even?

                Labour still needs the votes of the shallow people.

        • Ad 9.1.1.4
          23 October 2014 at 2:23 pm

          + 100
          Robertson didn’t lose 20 kilos by accident.

          Plenty vote on eyes and hair alone.

          Ardern didn’t nearly win Auckland Central on policy.
          She’s no minga.
          And it matters because the media matters.

          • swordfish 9.1.1.4.1
            23 October 2014 at 4:00 pm

            “Plenty vote on eyes and hair alone”

            You’re suggesting National won because John Key has a hair style that closely resembles an unconvincing toupee ???

          • Marksman33 9.1.1.4.2
            23 October 2014 at 6:44 pm

            Maybe Ad, but I do remember just before the 2011 election, Ardern and Nicky Kaye doing the breakfast show on The Edge and after the show and the two women had gone, the three halfwit morning show hosts spent the next hour slagging off and laughing at the length of Ardern’s nose.
            Puerile but true.

        • seeker 9.1.1.5
          23 October 2014 at 5:55 pm

          How dare you be so rude paddy @ 11.34am. Nanaia is a reasonably new mother of her second child. You try being a woman and have your body undergo great and often hard to reverse hormonal change – as well as nurse your children. Children come first, thinking about ‘personal trainers’ one has to leave to insensitive, ignorant men or probably self centred, image conscious women.

          Sounds like you’ve been swallowing too much nasty thinking whaleoil.

      • lurgee 9.1.2
        23 October 2014 at 3:32 pm

        like you can be lazy and gain the leadership of a political party!?

        The obvious line of attack would be that she got the job because she meets some sort of affirmative action / special interest / PC criteria.

        It doesn’t have to be true, it just has to resonate in the right quarters.

        • Bill 9.1.2.1
          23 October 2014 at 3:49 pm

          In other words, call her for being straight-out unworthy? Best of luck to them if they push that line.

      • boldsirbrian 9.1.3
        23 October 2014 at 5:33 pm

        .
        @ Bill (9.1)

        Nobody has put up any evidence about “laziness”. It’s a smear, probably invented by Slater.

        All I’ve seen suggests the exact opposite.

        Mr. Botany (B.)

        • Bill 9.1.3.1
          23 October 2014 at 9:28 pm

          Of course it’s a smear…and not a very good one. Thing is, I believe that’s about all they can peddle with regards Nanaia.

        • mickysavage 9.1.3.2
          23 October 2014 at 9:41 pm

          Nanaia is one of the most refreshingly dedicated politicians I have met in quite a while. And I also agree the smears are totally unwarranted.

          After all the bottom line in politics is how did she perform at the election? Nanaia did well.

  10. Tracey 10
    23 October 2014 at 11:28 am

    john armstrong is a different journo post election… he still leaves any actually journalism out …. see his articles in the herald today on key sucking breath

  11. Yoza 11
    23 October 2014 at 12:44 pm

    Grant Robertson seems the only serious contender for the title out of this line up. None of the candidates are ‘more left’ than any of the others out of Mahuta, Robertson and Little, while Parker shot his feet out from under himself with the ‘Labour’s a cult and red’s a silly colour’ comments.

    The media can attack Little without worrying about the consequences, Little’s union background means he’s a legitimate target of establishment scorn. Robertson’s sexuality and amiability presents more of an obstacle for the media’s attack network, attacks on Robertson are more likely to generate a sympathetic backlash.

    I wouldn’t vote Labour, haven’t since the Lange regime sold Telecom, but the choice for leader seems glaringly obvious.

  12. David H 12
    23 October 2014 at 1:52 pm

    I paid up and said who I want to lead the Labour party and was rewarded with him being elected. Imagine my horror come election time that I looked at what Caucus did, and I HAD to vote Green and Mana. Because my Labour party had been hijacked by wonks wallies and wanna be’s, Professional leakers who put them selves before the Party.

    A while ago i did say on here that Labour, after the 2014 election would end up the third largest party, and they were lucky that didn’t happen. I will not vote Labour again until they find their roots and get rid of the Troughers.

    Also a Labour Party lister who sees the party vote in his electorate go down, and cant win the seat…. Wants to lead the Labour Party??? Tui Ad time

    A year ago they asked us to vote in a leader, which we did last time and the Caucus didn’t like it. Now they want us to do it again, because the fucking leaking, self interested dinosaurs of the Labour caucus didn’t like our choice last time???? Fuck em I’ll burn my voting papers and vote for ABL. Anyone but Labour in 2017!

    • Colonial Rawshark 12.1
      23 October 2014 at 4:02 pm

      By the looks of this years paltry party vote results, many former Labour supporters are already well down this road.

  13. SHG 13
    23 October 2014 at 2:08 pm

    Hard to really tell from the photographs so far, but it looks like Grant has lost quite a bit of weight. Anyone confirm?

    • paddy 13.1
      23 October 2014 at 2:50 pm

      20kg less. He knows that it makes him more telegenic and gives the lie to those who claim that fat is not an issue. Of course it’s an issue as is sexuality, height, gender, accent, diction, or a whole host of other issues which should not be relevant but still are.

      • SHG 13.1.1
        23 October 2014 at 3:55 pm

        I didn’t take his candidacy for leadership seriously last time because he was fat, and that showed he wasn’t taking it seriously either. Fat people don’t win the big elections.

        This time it appears he actually thinks he can, and wants to, win.

        [lprent: Ok I’m bored with your fat astroturfing. 3 week ban. ]

        • Colonial Rawshark 13.1.1.1
          23 October 2014 at 4:10 pm

          Yep – Grant has been preparing hard for at least 6 months after the last leadership primary. He didn’t lose that weight in the last fortnight, anyways.

          It’s actually a classic tell in the USA – which senator is going to make a run for President. The one who has started going to the gym 3 times a week.

  14. finbar 14
    23 October 2014 at 2:52 pm

    Nania,being the only one with elected votes behind her should have a point of advantage.Labour lost all sorts of Pakeha,last election,who did not dump them, Maori and Pacifica.

    Heaps of ignorance say, look at the way she looks (how shallow is that).Nania,is not a shallow person,she has been in the house a very long time and like all good Prime Ministers,delegate caucus responsibily with care,and stand responsible for any of her chosen Ministers …. ups.A point of diffrence that our present governing National leader lacks, responisbility.He should be known as John Clayton Key,A P.M.when not having a P.M.

    So glamour is what the T.V. camera likes to see in our politicians as they tell us.Make over for Nania,glamour for all the shallow.

  15. finbar 15
    23 October 2014 at 3:24 pm

    Please remember.If yous fuck it up again, and dump this new born leader,who does not have the rise in the polls,you will be dog tucker again,and give a ruthless corporation government another term to ravage and humilliate your socialist birth right..

  16. JanM 16
    23 October 2014 at 3:41 pm

    I can’t believe some of the prejudiced, air-headed trivia I’m reading here! Honestly, talk about carrying on like teenagers at a beauty pageant – this is serious, for crying out loud. There is a lot riding on this vote, and you want to talk weight???? What will it be next, hair-dos and handbags?
    As far as I can see there are only two people likely to appeal enough to retrieve us from the third-world status we are rapidly sinking into under the nasty nats and they are Andrew Little and Nanaia Mahuta, in whichever order.
    And quit all this second-guessing based on appearance. These two are potentially pure gold – they have the passion, experience and knowledge out there in reality land and they speak the language of the people.
    p.s. And by the way, I think that Nanaia is an attractive woman with dignity and mana who does not deserve to be spoken of in that manner.

  17. JanM 17
    23 October 2014 at 3:41 pm

    I can’t believe some of the prejudiced, air-headed trivia I’m reading here! Honestly, talk about carrying on like teenagers at a beauty pageant – this is serious, for crying out loud. There is a lot riding on this vote, and you want to talk weight???? What will it be next, hair-dos and handbags?
    As far as I can see there are only two people likely to appeal enough to retrieve us from the third-world status we are rapidly sinking into under the nasty nats and they are Andrew Little and Nanaia Mahuta, in whichever order.
    And quit all this second-guessing based on appearance. These two are potentially pure gold – they have the passion, experience and knowledge out there in reality land and they speak the language of the people.
    p.s. And by the way, I think that Nanaia is an attractive woman with dignity and mana who does not deserve to be spoken of in that manner.

    • SHG 17.1
      23 October 2014 at 3:57 pm

      There is a lot riding on this vote, and you want to talk weight????

      Welcome to politics, you must be new here

    • finbar 17.2
      23 October 2014 at 8:28 pm

      You should have heard all the riddicule about Nanania looks,afore the race started.

      Seems nice now the Little and Nania,is your fancy.Switch around Nania and little.

  18. ankerawshark 18
    23 October 2014 at 3:55 pm

    agree Jan M ++++

    BTw I made myself watch Paddy Gower clip on Paul Henry last night.

    One thing I didn’t pick up last night was Andrew Litte’s vote card. On one side in red just a tick “1” on the other his picture. I think that is absolutely brilliant. Sign of what he will do.

    Give me that over the political speak pledge card anyday. I wish I had got one. Stephanie Rodgers, if you read this can you post it?

  19. dave brown 19
    23 October 2014 at 4:07 pm

    I find it amusing that so many who comment on here are so fickle in their support for Labour since Cunliffe lost the leadership.

    As if they have no social responsibility to help build the Party, they wait until it is ready for them to deserve their membership again.

    A lot of people joined to support Cunliffe and now say they are leaving, or will never vote for it again.

    How do you think Cunliffe won the leadership in the first place?

    Party democracy gave us Cunliffe; the attack on party democracy took him away.

    Do we leave in a fit of despondency or look at the next best option?

    Mahuta supported Cunliffe, Little stood aloof.

    But Cunliffe clearly supports them both. Why?

    I put Mahuta first as she represents Labour’s historic roots in the blue collar, Maori and Pasifika working class which was proved deep rooted by the election.

    I put Little second as representing the unions and seeming to be committed to re-unionising and re-enfranchising the missing rootless million.

    Because I must give a 3 and 4 ranking, I put Robertson third as someone who sucks up to the aspirational middle (those who think they have escaped the working class) like a hot air balloon.

    I put Parker last as representing the big and little capitalists and mis-reding Labour as his prospective personality cult.

    • Ad 19.1
      23 October 2014 at 5:02 pm

      Loyalty is earned. Especially political loyalty.

      If they go, it clearly wasn’t earned by the Labour Party.

    • Cave Johnson 19.2
      23 October 2014 at 6:52 pm

      How does Nanaia represent blue collar? Straight from University to Parliament wasn’t it?

      • JanM 19.2.1
        23 October 2014 at 7:46 pm

        She lives in Ngaruawahia and grew up in Huntly, for heaven’s sake – do you think she lives in a glasshouse?

    • ankerawshark 19.3
      23 October 2014 at 7:07 pm

      Dave brown @ 19. Marvellous. I agree

    • ankerawshark 19.4
      23 October 2014 at 7:07 pm

      Dave brown @ 19. Marvellous. I agree

      • Anne 19.4.1
        23 October 2014 at 7:17 pm

        +1

        I agree with Dave Brown but:

        … Little stood aloof.

        Keith Holyoake used to give new MPs excellent advice. “Breathe through your nose during your first term in parliament”.

        By his own admission that is what Little did. It was a wise choice and he actually goes up in my estimation for doing so. At times it must have been very hard to keep his head down and say nothing, but I have the impression he’s now making up for it.

        • Cave Johnson 19.4.1.1
          23 October 2014 at 7:41 pm

          When Obama entered the senate in 2005, he talked to Hilary Clinton and she gave him the advice, “Work hard and keep your head down”. 3 years later… boom!

        • finbar 19.4.1.2
          23 October 2014 at 9:02 pm

          Maori Keith,what tosser would beleive in his rule,only a tosser that would Keith!s four term rule beleiver.Maori Keith.His name was because he ensured that he and his freinds owned more Maori land than the Maori.And what excuses they sold.

    • Rodel 19.5
      23 October 2014 at 8:19 pm

      DB
      My anger at Cunliffe’s demise is subsiding.
      Of the candidates who represent my left values i think Little is the person; -left wing-empathy for workers- straight talking and with egalitarian values.

      Perhaps he is the antithesis of John Key, and many of his colleagues who I consider deceitful, manipulative and not representative of a New Zealand culture that I want to see for my children.
      Still listening though to all the others and still hoping that Cunliffe will rise again.

  20. finbar 20
    23 October 2014 at 8:44 pm

    Mahuta,is the pick for labours,not know.Mahuta,is the pick for labours inception.Smiling in the back is,Nash and his cronies.All smilling,as Key and his cronies ravage our foundations.Smile will Nash,and his cronies, without care of the families and missery that this coprorations rule shall do.Smile will they rubbing their hands for the chance of pleasing the same corporations.

  21. ankerawshark 21
    23 October 2014 at 8:44 pm

    Rodel @ 19.5 If only DC would rise again!

    • Olwyn 22.1
      23 October 2014 at 11:00 pm

      I was pleased to see that Andrew Little cut to the chase and spoke forthrightly, but I cannot help but think that when the media refer to “the broader electorate” they mean themselves – they think they have almost absolute power over public opinion. Working out a unified way of dealing with the media is one of the things that the party will really need to consider in the review. It is no good having one lot kissing their arses while another lot is trying to challenge their narrative.

  23. red lion serratus 23
    23 October 2014 at 10:02 pm

    As an attendee ,Little was the breakaway, strong words regarding class struggle ‘ the powerful taking advantage of the weak gets right up craw’ or words to that effect , with his wit cutting during questions. Mahuta also spoke

    with authencity & clarity. Robertson was too slick & contrived.Parker too bashful in his bearing idealogue in his words

    • Sirenia 23.1
      24 October 2014 at 8:04 am

      ‘Slick and contrived’ has been good for the National Party. Perhaps Labour should try it.

  24. bornleft 24
    23 October 2014 at 11:37 pm

    Sounds like one day has been enough. . . . Little and Mahuta are the team to rebuild, and ultimately take it to National

    Shame Parker decided to run. He would have had more credibility long term by standing aside.

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