The Nats’ new ‘swimmable’ rivers aren’t
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- Date published:
3:08 pm, February 28th, 2017 - 15 comments
Categories: Conservation, farming, farming, sustainability, water -
Tags: david parker, dodgy statistics, nick smith, water, water quality
I’ve been waiting for the dust to settle a bit before wading in to the Nats’ water quality fiasco.
Nick Smith bungled the announcement hugely, allowing the perception that they were going to reach their new goals by allowing twice as much shit in “swimmable” rivers. He then released some incomprehensible statements and called critics “junk science”. Unfortunately the critics are more or less right. An excellent piece on RNZ:
Diving into the muddy water of ‘swimmable’
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Previous water quality guidelines had separate criteria for swimming and other activities. A river or lake was graded an A for swimming if tests for the E coli bacterium came back with less than 260 bacteria per 100 ml of water 95 percent of the time.The criteria for an A for other activities was less strict; the median (middle) value of all the tests taken over a year needed to be less than 260 bacteria per 100 ml. A river or lake got a B if the values were 260-540 E coli, a C if they were 540-1000 and a D if they were over 1000. So, under the old guidelines, some of our lakes or rivers could easily have an A for water sports but a B (or no rating at all) for swimming.
In the government’s new policy document (‘Clean Water’ – PDF, 3.68MB), the threshold number of E coli has been set at 540 bacteria per 100 ml of water. Now to get a blue (“excellent”) rating, the water must have less than 540 E coli for 95 percent of the time.
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This is where the government’s new definition of swimmable comes in: blue, green or yellow graded water. In other words, it can be above the threshold for up to 20 percent of the time.
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The ‘Clean Water’ document itself is a bit misleading because the new regulations require that at least half the time the E coli levels must be lower than 130 per 100ml, so that the risk of getting Campylobacter is very low – but it can be higher than one in 20 for 20 percent of the time.What this means is that your chance of getting sick isn’t one in 20 every day. It varies. Sometimes it’s much lower than that and sometimes it’s much higher.
We’ve crunched the numbers so you can see how that risk changes for each of the “swimmable” categories of water. The risk ranges from less than one in 1000 (0.1 percent), to one in 100 (1 percent), one in 20 (5 percent), one in six (15 percent) and even higher.
no metadataThe tricky bit is not knowing which days are which, as water can look perfectly swimmable but still have dangerous levels of Campylobacter in it.
What kind of ‘swimmable’ river is that?
Regional councils are meant to notify the public if the E coli levels go above 260 bacteria per 100 ml, so it looks like it’s worth checking before immersing yourself in any “swimmable” New Zealand rivers and lakes.
What kind of public safety is that?
Under the new standards we have up to a 1 in 6 risk of serious infection at the times that we actually swim in rivers, and Smith is trying to hide this fact by fudging around with year-long averages. So (unsurprisingly) David Parker was bang on yesterday:
Labour’s David Parker calls for ‘swimmable’ test to reflect when and where you take a dip
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Yes, he [Smith] has moved the goalposts. He is now classifying as swimmable rivers that would not meet the current understanding of swimmable in New Zealand. It’s not fair for him to say that on the basis it’s a higher standard than wadeability that it’s an adequate standard for swimmability because it’s not. I think there should be a 99 per cent confidence level that you won’t get crook.A river can exceed the E.coli limit up to 20 per cent of the time and still be graded as swimmable. That is 2.4 months a year. This really irks me. From Christmas until the end of February is less than 20 per cent of the year. River quality generally gets worse in summer when flows are lower and water temperatures are higher. It’s also when most people swim in our rivers. Any standard which ignores that reality is rubbish.
Well worth reading the whole interview.
Smith can rant all he likes, but the fact is that this is where we are:
Unswimmable lagoon now deemed swimmable under revised standards
A waterway that Environment Minister Dr Nick Smith once deemed “impossible” to improve to a swimmable condition would be considered swimmable under proposed new standards.
Several other waterways – including dry shingle beds and rivers with toxic algal blooms – would also meet the swimmable standard, despite clearly being unsuitable for swimming.
Critics have said such instances reveal shortcomings in the way the proposed standards are measured.
Also worth reading, Newshub’s series on water. A lot of the pollution is from general agriculture and urban runoff. This is a complex and serious problem requiring complex and serious solutions. Not Nick Smith.
Nick Smith and the swimmable rivers policy – My cartoon in today's @nzherald @RusselNorman @GreenpeaceNZ @FedFarmers pic.twitter.com/lpca9ubh1H
— Rod Emmerson (@rodemmerson) February 23, 2017
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- Release: Labour Party calls for immediate ceasefireThe New Zealand Labour Party is urgently calling for a ceasefire in Gaza and Israel to put a halt to the appalling attacks and violence, so that a journey to a lasting peace can begin, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...3 weeks ago
- Ministers visit Hawke’s Bay to grasp recovery needs
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon joined Cyclone Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell and Transport and Local Government Minister Simeon Brown, to meet leaders of cyclone and flood-affected regions in the Hawke’s Bay. The visit reinforced the coalition Government’s commitment to support the region and better understand its ongoing requirements, Mr Mitchell says. ...5 hours ago - New Zealand condemns malicious cyber activityNew Zealand has joined the UK and other partners in condemning malicious cyber activity conducted by the Russian Government, Minister Responsible for the Government Communications Security Bureau Judith Collins says. The statement follows the UK’s attribution today of malicious cyber activity impacting its domestic democratic institutions and processes, as well ...10 hours ago
- Disestablishment of Te Pūkenga beginsThe Government has begun the process of disestablishing Te Pūkenga as part of its 100-day plan, Minister for Tertiary Education and Skills Penny Simmonds says. “I have started putting that plan into action and have met with the chair and chief Executive of Te Pūkenga to advise them of my ...1 day ago
- Climate Change Minister to attend COP28 in DubaiClimate Change Minister Simon Watts will be leaving for Dubai today to attend COP28, the 28th annual UN climate summit, this week. Simon Watts says he will push for accelerated action towards the goals of the Paris Agreement, deliver New Zealand’s national statement and connect with partner countries, private sector leaders ...1 day ago
- New Zealand to host 2024 Pacific defence meetingDefence Minister Judith Collins yesterday announced New Zealand will host next year’s South Pacific Defence Ministers’ Meeting (SPDMM). “Having just returned from this year’s meeting in Nouméa, I witnessed first-hand the value of meeting with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security and defence matters. I welcome the opportunity to ...1 day ago
- Study shows need to remove distractions in classThe Government is committed to lifting school achievement in the basics and that starts with removing distractions so young people can focus on their learning, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. The 2022 PISA results released this week found that Kiwi kids ranked 5th in the world for being distracted ...1 day ago
- Minister sets expectations of CommissionerToday I met with Police Commissioner Andrew Coster to set out my expectations, which he has agreed to, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. Under section 16(1) of the Policing Act 2008, the Minister can expect the Police Commissioner to deliver on the Government’s direction and priorities, as now outlined in ...2 days ago
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- Collins leaves for Pacific defence meetingDefence Minister Judith Collins today departed for New Caledonia to attend the 8th annual South Pacific Defence Ministers’ meeting (SPDMM). “This meeting is an excellent opportunity to meet face-to-face with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security matters and to demonstrate our ongoing commitment to the Pacific,” Judith Collins says. ...4 days ago
- Working for Families gets cost of living boostPutting more money in the pockets of hard-working families is a priority of this Coalition Government, starting with an increase to Working for Families, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says. “We are starting our 100-day plan with a laser focus on bringing down the cost of living, because that is what ...4 days ago
- Post-Cabinet press conferenceMost weeks, following Cabinet, the Prime Minister holds a press conference for members of the Parliamentary Press Gallery. This page contains the transcripts from those press conferences, which are supplied by Hansard to the Office of the Prime Minister. It is important to note that the transcripts have not been edited ...4 days ago
- Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme scrappedThe Government has axed the $16 billion Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme championed by the previous government, Energy Minister Simeon Brown says. “This hugely wasteful project was pouring money down the drain at a time when we need to be reining in spending and focussing on rebuilding the economy and ...5 days ago
- NZ welcomes further pause in fighting in GazaNew Zealand welcomes the further one-day extension of the pause in fighting, which will allow the delivery of more urgently-needed humanitarian aid into Gaza and the release of more hostages, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said. “The human cost of the conflict is horrific, and New Zealand wants to see the violence ...1 week ago
- Condolences on passing of Henry KissingerForeign Minister Winston Peters today expressed on behalf of the New Zealand Government his condolences to the family of former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who has passed away at the age of 100 at his home in Connecticut. “While opinions on his legacy are varied, Secretary Kissinger was ...1 week ago
- Backing our kids to learn the basicsEvery child deserves a world-leading education, and the Coalition Government is making that a priority as part of its 100-day plan. Education Minister Erica Stanford says that will start with banning cellphone use at school and ensuring all primary students spend one hour on reading, writing, and maths each day. ...1 week ago
- US Business Summit Speech – Regional stability through tradeI would like to begin by echoing the Prime Minister’s thanks to the organisers of this Summit, Fran O’Sullivan and the Auckland Business Chamber. I want to also acknowledge the many leading exporters, sector representatives, diplomats, and other leaders we have joining us in the room. In particular, I would like ...1 week ago
- Keynote Address to the United States Business Summit, AucklandGood morning. Thank you, Rosemary, for your warm introduction, and to Fran and Simon for this opportunity to make some brief comments about New Zealand’s relationship with the United States. This is also a chance to acknowledge my colleague, Minister for Trade Todd McClay, Ambassador Tom Udall, Secretary of Foreign ...1 week ago
- India New Zealand Business Council Speech, India as a Strategic PriorityGood morning, tēnā koutou and namaskar. Many thanks, Michael, for your warm welcome. I would like to acknowledge the work of the India New Zealand Business Council in facilitating today’s event and for the Council’s broader work in supporting a coordinated approach for lifting New Zealand-India relations. I want to also ...1 week ago
- Coalition Government unveils 100-day planPrime Minister Christopher Luxon has laid out the Coalition Government’s plan for its first 100 days from today. “The last few years have been incredibly tough for so many New Zealanders. People have put their trust in National, ACT and NZ First to steer them towards a better, more prosperous ...1 week ago
- New Zealand welcomes European Parliament vote on the NZ-EU Free Trade AgreementA significant milestone in ratifying the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement (FTA) was reached last night, with 524 of the 705 member European Parliament voting in favour to approve the agreement. “I’m delighted to hear of the successful vote to approve the NZ-EU FTA in the European Parliament overnight. This is ...2 weeks ago
- Israel’s AI can produce 100 bombing targets a day in Gaza. Is this the future of war?
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Bianca Baggiarini, Lecturer, Australian National University Last week, reports emerged that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) are using an artificial intelligence (AI) system called Habsora (Hebrew for “The Gospel”) to select targets in the war on Hamas in Gaza. The system has ...24 mins ago - Frank and far-reaching: Senate report recommends shake-up of the way freedom of information is handl...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Johan Lidberg, Associate Professor, School of Media, Film and Journalism, Monash University The most significant recommendation in the Senate inquiry report on the functionality of the Commonwealth FOI system is this: move the federal Freedom of Information (FOI) function from the Office ...39 mins ago
- Week in Politics: New government survives first Question Time
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- Watch: Luxon on Hawke's Bay cyclone recovery: 'We don't want to turn all that upside ...Christopher Luxon says the new government is going to continue everything that the previous one put into place to help with the recovery from Cyclone Gabrielle. ...3 hours ago
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- Watch – Christopher Luxon visits Hawke's Bay to see cyclone recovery progressLive - Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has been in Wairoa this morning to gauge progress of the town's recovery from Cyclone Gabrielle. Watch a media conference with him here. ...4 hours ago
- Yes, landlords gain from the repeal of interest deductibility rules – but it was a flawed law from...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alison Pavlovich, Senior lecturer in the School of Accounting and Commercial Law, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington The new coalition government has announced a suite of tax reforms, including reintroducing the ability for property investors to deduct the interest ...4 hours ago
- The Amalgamated Workers Union Calls On The Government To Give Fair Pay Agreements A Fair Go
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- Australia’s first mobile cooling hub is ready for searing heat this summer – and people who are ...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jane Currie, Professor of Nursing, Queensland University of Technology Shutterstock Heatwaves are a major public health hazard. Socially disadvantaged people are especially exposed to extreme heat and other impacts of climate change. Many people experiencing homelessness – more than 120,000 ...6 hours ago
- Free Speech Union Releases Briefing To Incoming Government, Outlining Key Areas Of Policy To Protect...The Free Speech Union has sent 14 Cabinet Ministers a comprehensive Briefing to the Incoming Government, outlining five key areas of policy that the Government must address in order to protect and expand Kiwis’ speech rights. We look forward to ...6 hours ago
- Interislander ferry upgrade: Finance Minister warns of cost blowoutFinance Minister Nicola Willis says she has already met twice with KiwiRail bosses over a "major cost blowout" in the project to replace the Interislander ferries. ...6 hours ago
- National Trying To Rewrite History By Removing App Tax Website And Press ReleaseThe Taxpayers’ Union is calling on the National Party to front up to consumers who will face 15% higher prices for some services from the likes of Uber, Airbnb and food delivery apps after their app tax U-turn rather than trying to erase all ...7 hours ago
- Netballers may have a new pay deal, but the sport remains in a precarious positionSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Hunter Fujak, Lecturer in Sport Management, Deakin University While 2023 was a watershed year for Australian women’s sport due to the Matildas’ stirring run at the Women’s World Cup, netball is going through its worst period ever. Netball Australia and the ...7 hours ago
- Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau’s Platitudes Ring HollowResponding to news that Wellington City Councillors have voted down a proposal to reduce business rates in the capital, Taxpayers’ Union Policy Adviser, James Ross, said: “When Mayor Tory Whanau comes out with a line like ‘I couldn’t in good ...8 hours ago
- Te Pūkenga to be replaced with 8-10 institutions – ministerThe new tertiary education minister says Te Pūkenga will be replaced with eight to 10 individual institutions, and hopes legislation will be in place within eight months. ...8 hours ago
- Commission Presents Urgent Human Rights ‘must-do’ ListTe Kāhui Tika Tangata Human Rights Commission has today launched a short film calling for the public and government to champion and protect human rights ahead of the 75th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. “Seventy-five years on, ...9 hours ago
- A Cowardly, Anti-Palestinian Parliamentary MotionThe parliamentary motion passed today , a full two months after Israel’s slaughter of Palestinian civilians began, says: "Express grave concern at the ongoing violence in Israel and the occupied Palestinian Territories, unequivocally condemn ...9 hours ago
- Political editors panel: Māori make voices heard as Parliament resumesMorning Report - RNZ and 1News deputy political editors Craig McCulloch and Maiki Sherman dissect a fractious week in the halls of power. ...9 hours ago
- Listen: The real cost of the smoking excise tax
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- GCSB Minister Judith Collins condemns Russian cyber attacksNew Zealand is joining other nations, including Britain, in condemning Russian government malicious cyber-attacks. ...10 hours ago
- GCSB Minister Judith Collins condemns Russian cyber attacksNew Zealand is joining other nations, including Britain, in condemning Russian government malicious cyber-attacks. ...10 hours ago
- Ryan Bridge to host Three’s new 7pm showWith The Project wrapping up last week (you can read Duncan Greive’s excellent reflections on that here), Warner Bros Discovery has announced broadcaster Ryan Bridge will host a brand new current affairs show for Three. The currently unnamed show will focus on live news and interviews and is a return ...10 hours ago
- We thought we’d find 200 species living in our house and yard. We were very wrongSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Matthew H. Holden, Lecturer, School of Mathematics and Physics, The University of Queensland Dot-underwing moth (_Eudocima materna_) found in the researchers’ yard. Matthew Holden, CC BY-NC We are biodiversity researchers – an ecologist, a mathematician and a taxonomist – who were locked ...10 hours ago
- What’s the difference between ‘reasonable and necessary’ and ‘foundational’ supports? Here...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sam Bennett, Disability Program Director, Grattan Institute The long-awaited NDIS review has looked far beyond the National Disability Insurance Scheme, taking a bird’s eye view of disability services in Australia. Critical to the future of the NDIS are services for people with ...10 hours ago
- Harnessing the oceans to ‘bury’ carbon has huge potential – and risk – so NZ needs to move w...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rebecca J McLeod, Senior Research Fellow in Marine Ecology, University of Otago Climate change might not be high on its immediate agenda, but New Zealand’s new government does have one potentially significant and innovative policy. Recognising the marine environment’s ability to remove ...10 hours ago
- Councils are opening the door to tiny houses as a quick, affordable and green solutionSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Hing-Wah Chau, Course Chair in Building Design & Senior Lecturer in Built Environment, Victoria University Soaring rents and home prices, increasing mortgage stress, record immigration and a growing population are fuelling a housing crisis and increasing homelessness. In the face of this ...10 hours ago
- I’m an expert in diplomatic gift giving. Here are my 5 top tips for the best Christmas present exc...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Samantha Happé, Graduate researcher in art history and material culture studies, The University of Melbourne Shutterstock As we get closer to Christmas, your family will probably have some kind of gathering. You will reunite with people who you might not ...10 hours ago
- The Bulletin: Covid data leaker was largely unknown in conspiracy circlesTe Whatu Ora IT worker Barry Young had a “relatively muted” digital presence prior to his arrest last week over a massive Covid data breach, Stuff reports. Young has since become something of a cause celebre among vacccine sceptics, appearing on online shows hosted by local conspiracy theorist Liz Gunn and ...10 hours ago
- Home Brew back with first album in over a decade and slot at LanewayAfter an 11 year hiatus, legendary Aotearoa hip-hop group Home Brew are back today with their first new album in over a decade, Run it Back, and will continue that reunion at Laneway Festival in February. Breaking their indefinite hiatus, Run it Back comes off the back off the 2023 ...11 hours ago
- MPs settle into new roles as parliament cranks back into actionThere may be less than a fortnight left in the political year, but politicians seem determined to make the final days count, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. Question time is ...11 hours ago
- Literacy, numeracy tests as NCEA requirement 'detrimental' to learnersA leading education researcher warns new high-stakes NCEA literacy and maths tests could do more harm than good. ...12 hours ago
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- Chris Hipkins opens up on what went wrong at the 2023 electionOn a quiet morning before the first parliamentary question time of the new term, Chris Hipkins and Christopher Luxon took a moment to analyse and reflect on their election campaigns. When Chris Hipkins was sworn in as prime minister on January 21, 2023, he had a feeling of optimism and ...14 hours ago
- City deals can drive Auckland to international levels
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- The ‘troubled-teen’ industry and conflicts of interest in Family CourtOpinion: Courts are halls of justice, but they are also well-financed institutional purchasers of goods and services, outsourcing much of their work to private consultants and contractors, including lawyers, advocates, psychologists, social workers, and drug counsellors who earn their living from court contracts. Though there is nothing inherently wrong ...14 hours ago
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- This week’s bestselling NZ booksFICTION 1 The Girl from London by Olivia Spooner (Hachette, $37.99) An ideal Xmas present for the commercial fiction reader who would relish a wartime story of a shipboard romance. 2 The Axeman’s Carnival by Catherine Chidgey (Te Herenga Waka University Press, $35) An ideal Xmas present for the ...14 hours ago
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- Watch: Gaza ceasefire motion debated, Luxon and Hipkins to face off in first question timeThe first question time of the new parliament is under way. Deputy prime minister Winston Peters has called on parties involved in the Gaza conflict to take urgent steps towards establishing a ceasefire. Greens co-leader Marama Davidson is currently seeking amendments to the motion. ...1 day ago
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Im guessing this has all been written by Fonterra and passed on to National, as it doesnt seem that they understand their own policy- a clue that it isnt theirs
To be fair to Fonterra they’ve put in quite a bit of funding to specific areas over the last couple of years to help farmers fence off their properties and re-vegetate them. Not enough of course, and this is maybe where the govt also has to step in …. but not to the extent of allowing farmers 20 years or so to fix up the problem.
You say ROb that “A lot of the pollution is from general agriculture and urban runoff”.
But the NewsHub item – while mentioning the Kawerau mill ‘black river’ also states that
” This is where the booming dairy and beef industries must take a fair share of the blame for the high levels of nitrogen being put into New Zealand’s waterways – the direct effect of high volumes of cow urine”.
And certainly up here in the north, the latter appears to be the case. This appears to have increased substantially since the intensification of dairying and beef cattle over the last eight years or so. And more so since the multi-national corporations took over these big farming units.
Most of the “urban runoff” goes into the sea – usually when its in stormy weather and over-loading the treatment plants. Urban runoff is a different beast to the contamination caused by farming, and is gradually being dealt to by urban local authorities.
But I agree, Nick Smith is making an absolute fool of himself – he doesn’t know which way is up, and he obviously doesn’t have a clue how to deal with this huge problem.
+1.
“A lot of the pollution is from general agriculture and urban runoff. This is a complex and serious problem requiring complex and serious solutions.”
Maybe. But only because we start from a position of pollute until you get caught/stopped. We can measure until the cows come home but we’re still measuring in the wrong direction.
If we started from a position of valuing and protecting water ecosystems in their own right, and then you could only use the water and land there if it could be shown that those activities wouldn’t undermine that ecosystem, it would be much more straightforward.
Te mana o te wai gives mana to the people, in case anyone was thinking how terrible that might be.
Interesting new fudge over fencing waterways
“Northland clean river campaigner Millan Ruka is convinced a new category of “dairy support cattle” is helping dairy farmers dodge having to fence their cows off from waterways.”
Mr Ruka, who carries out Environmental River Patrol Aotearoa (ERPA) kayak monitoring of Northland rivers, said “dairy support” was a new category of cattle classification helping dairy farmers avoid the challenges of the Fonterra clean streams accord.
“‘Dairy support’ was not a term I had heard used until about three months ago,” he said.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-country/news/article.cfm?c_id=16&objectid=11728217
Wadeable now becomes swimmable and dairy cows become beef cattle when you are changing definitions rather than cleaning up your act.
Yes – the NRC is doing a fudge – and its also doing a review of its waterways regulations – again, like the govt, setting a 20-year limit for farmers to get their act together.
However they’ve called for public submissions and I wouldn’t be surprised if they get quite a few of us cynical types along to challenge their fudge – some time in the next few months. Should be fun !
The 20 year limit is just a way of ‘creating new facts’ in the streams that they will then say : “Cant be done, you have to loosen the regulations”
Rub the nats noses in it, there is massive public concern at the trashing of our waterways- thats the whole reason National want to look like they are doing something, their polling clearly shows they are worse than weak here.
Come on labour, still waiting for that big clear policy on containing/winding back irrigation and dairy expansion.
David Parker has made a number of public statements, and the Party’s 2014 policy on waterways still stands.
Labour IS opposed to more dairy expansion, is extremely concerned at what has happened to our waterways over the last eight years, and has ideas on how to resolve that huge contamination within “one generation” – is how they put it. I think that means just a few years.
If farmers fenced off a buffer zone and revegetated it, then the plant growth would start to use up the nitrates and other nasties leaking into waterways which is causing such a problem. Trouble with the govt’s proposal is they’re giving farmers a lee-way – they don’t really have to do anything for about 20 years. That’s not good enough.
The more I find out about this change in standards the more it smells like shit and starts to make me feel like vomiting. Odd that..!
This is good reporting, but the problem is that the lightweight media outlets have just run with the good news version of the story: 90% “swimmable” by 2040. That’s certainly the version being run by my local radio station.
An absolute disgrace.
EVERY river should be safely DRINKABLE to an infant or infirm person 100% of the time. Anything less, and the offending industry or industries shut down immediately. Urban, rural, factory, farm.
It’s water, FFS!!
Sadly this Post will not receive the Attention it warrants! And /or Deserves!
Sadly this Post, and many others of the day, (and comments, will only survive a further 24 Hours …
Sadly most things are ephemeral….
I’m just Sad about All the effort that’s put in
If Nick is feeling so confident, maybe we should give him a glass of Hutt Valley river water to drink every day.