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The new successful revolution we are seeing

Written By: - Date published: 1:54 pm, June 28th, 2020 - 55 comments
Categories: Donald Trump, political alternatives, Politics, racism, Revolution, uncategorized, us politics - Tags:

We’re now seeing a revolution.

While many expect logic to prevail and capitalism to overcome, a really successful and very modern revolution has already started in just the last few weeks.

It’s not the revolution we expected. It’s morphing, and its changes are unpredictable.

It’s not climate change. It’s Black Lives Matter, and the reaction to the death by Police of George Floyd just a few weeks ago.

Excellent agit-prop art on the way.

Could anyone imagine that the idea of the modern Police force in the United States would be put in question? Or even that a major city would vote to defund it?

This revolution has started the previously unthinkable, deep questioning about how crime and order and justice is actually organised. That’s not going to go away, whomever becomes the next U.S. president.

Could anyone imagine that President Trump would have to engage hard with history, deep into history?

We haven’t had a decent challenge to the way history itself is valued in a long time. The idea of statues about people is up for grabs – literally.

Two monuments to order: the Police, and our elders. That’s a revolution in progress.

And now for the billionaires, the tech billionaires who now rule our every identity-breath, value-expression, and transaction.

Facebook have reacted to massive advertiser pressure from major advertiser corporates and will now tag all harmful political posts.

Those corporates were reacting to pressure from Black Lives Matter protesters.

That prick Zuckerberg had resisted doing anything of note after our own massacre of our Muslim community.

This is also the guy who justified at length keeping President Trump’s inflammatory comments about the George Floyd protests up.

Zuckerberg wrote:

We looked very closely at the post that discussed the protests in Minnesota to evaluate whether it violated our policies. Although the post had a troubling historical reference, we decided to leave it up because the National Guard references meant we read it as a warning without state action, and we think people need to know if the government is planning to deploy force. Our policy around incitement of violence allows discussion around state use of force, although I think today’s situation raises important questions about what potential limits of that discussion should be.”

He also criticised Twitter:

Unlike Twitter, we do not have a policy of a warning of posts that may incite violence because we believe that if a post incites violence, it should be removed regardless of whether it is newsworthy, even if it comes from a politician.”

Then came Black Lives Matter organising on the energy of the death of George Floyd, hitting those corporates hard, and look what happened. Zuckerberg said two days ago that Facebook would remove content – even from politicians – if it determines that it incites violence or suppresses voting.

Shares of Facebook and Twitter both fell more than 7% straight after that decision.
Tempting to project what that 7% value fall represents of the shareholders.

The President of the United States and the most powerful corporate leader in the world are bending to the revolution of Black Lives Matter.

The revolution is being televised, and it’s being Facebooked, and it’s Twittered too.

It’s rolling.

55 comments on “The new successful revolution we are seeing”

  1. Tiger Mountain 1

    BLM is an uprising, brewed and organised for a long, long, time. BLM has achieved breakthrough for many reasons, not the least of which is white, black and brown are uniting as an unofficial opposition to the US ruling class–neither Republican or Democratic or even Independent affiliated.

    Technically, a revolution in marxist terms, involves a fundamental shift in class power, particularly the ownership and control of production, science, culture and state force. BLM has not got to that level anymore than the “Arab Spring” did a decade ago. But, Black Lives Matter by generally pursuing a “unite all who can be united” approach is getting damn close to a pre revolutionary situation. The streets of Washington DC being painted in supportive slogans in type big enough to see from the President’s chopper is an indication of that!

    • Ad 1.1

      Well overdue to redefine the term "revolution". Plenty of uprisings of the current century don't fit. 

      The BLM change is real and hard to unwind. 

  2. Incognito 2

    I’d encourage anybody to parse carefully Zuckerberg’s criticism of Twitter quoted in the OP, as it is a true beauty of semantic slippery. If you blink, you’ll miss it.

  3. Tricledrown 3

    Remember the Panama Papers those in power say they will change then just sweep everything under the carpet.

  4. common sense 4

    Black lives matter will not achieve what you wish it to in regards to long term positive change.. There may be some change but it will be far from a revolution. At present the response has been subtle and the cause suits a political party that offers support for its own selfish political agenda. 

    The reason the protests get traction in certain cities is because democrat governors are allowing blm to break the law because they have orders from above. The democrats dont honestly care for the people protesting they just want their vote and want anything that pushes back against trump. 

    Where are the large protests in republican states?? There arent any , which means that the people are divided. A true revolution will require a collective agreement amongst all people .

    Tribalism or isolated portions of the species will not result in positive change, only more fighting and segregation . If you go to birthplace of the labour party what does it say on the walls everywhere you look? That same slogan is what will cause a revolution, anything else just wont do it

    Many people have supported the blm correct, gun purchasing has also risen 500% in some states. Does that sound like everyone is on board? 

    The most simple and effective strategy for a revolution is right under everyones noses. It will require no violence and would offer everyone a better quality of life.. It has only just become possible in recent times .. It is the end all and only way we can truely resolve our problems. DREAM BIG

    BLM will do in the rest of the world what it has done in New Zealand, lose momentum and fizz out. Was there any large protesting done in nz over the weekend? The attention span of the masses needs to be constantly focused to achieve change .

    Im not trying to be negative or a pessimist, simply a realist. Some people will always be selfish , come to terms with this and navigate so that even these people are pert of the revolution.. A revolution requires all hands on deck

    • Incognito 4.1

      Yeah, nah.

      Just as Braxton-Hicks contractions are a prelude to real ones and ultimately delivery of something new in the world, these movements are necessary steps to something else too. It does not require attention span and in fact can be over-analysed and over-thought. It is an entirely natural process that humanity has to go through in order to grow, develop, and evolve. Nothing is going to stop it, not even common sense.

      • common sense 4.1.1

        I disagree and would happily accept a wager on the matter. If you look at google trend search you will see a spike the same as present just before the 2016 election in regards to blm google search https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=black%20lives%20matter

        Its a tool for the democratic party to drum up support. please name the republican states that are participating at the same level of democratic states? There are black people in republican states too no?

        There has been no force applied in resistance to law breaking, does that not seem odd to you? Nancy pelosi cares so much she cant even remember floyds last name.

        The moment regular law and order is imposed the movement is toast.. you have to operate within the confines of acceptable behaviour of the collective or have more force available than the state to make progress in the fashion that blm has adopted. neither requirement has been met

        What does it say on the walls at the birthplace of the labour party??The answer is right under everyones noses DREAM BIG

        There is only truely one way forward anything else and the same issues will always be present.

        Heres a hint left and right are simply the oldest and most reliable form warefare. devide and conquer. its only called the opposition to provide an illusion/delusion of choice

        • Gabby 4.1.1.1

          Clearly an issue your people feel strongly about cs.

          • common sense 4.1.1.1.1

            I feel strongly gabby, Strongly for all, be it people, animals or nature.. we are all connected and all affected 

        • Incognito 4.1.1.2

          I disagree and would happily accept a wager on the matter.

          Again, I have no idea what you’re on about and I’d refer you to a TAB.

          And then this:

          What does it say on the walls at the birthplace of the labour party??The answer is right under everyones noses DREAM BIG

          There is only truely one way forward anything else and the same issues will always be present.

          Heres a hint left and right are simply the oldest and most reliable form warefare. devide and conquer. its only called the opposition to provide an illusion/delusion of choice

          What is this supposed to mean? Cryptic, vague, innuendo, dropping hints??

          You seem to be all over the place and maybe you should try comment in a more rational way, if you can? But please don’t sweat it because I’m going to listen to some more music tonight. It helps to formulate my thoughts more clearly when I’m relaxed.

          • common sense 4.1.1.2.1

            Fairplay incognito , sometimes people are so invested in their position its easier to ask questions rather than confront there position , A mind that is looking for itself is far more content than a mind that is told a conclusion that defies its belief system . ill be more direct with you in the future

            The answer , the reason the labour party was so successful was that it directly in its mission statement included everyone , united we stand divided we fall in its essence said lets band together for a better quality of life for all. The left and right have different views but if we dont all come together then we are doomed to kill ourselves and the planet? maybe? The left and right paradigm is divisive and outdated, I believe it will be very hard to address the pressing issues under our current constraints

            I believe there are better alternatives

    • McFlock 4.2

      There have been over 2,000 protests throughout the fifty states.

      Sure, some were bigger and longer than others, but it's not quite so isolated as you seem to imply.

      I don't expect major federal change until January 20 2021. But municiple change is happening now, and that's revolutionary for those neighbourhoods.

      • common sense 4.2.1

        Really you see change?? You see people with a better quality of life?? You have seen resolve?? I have seen pointless violence and destruction of property.. 

        Perhaps if you look at the broader picture you will see the true problem and not focus your attention on a complexity that will detract from greater progress.

        What is the true problem??

        • McFlock 4.2.1.1

          I see some changes, yes.

          I see municipalities choose the people over their police departments, several initiating major changes.

          I see more diversity in the crowds.

          I see groups that sought to change the police putting their support behind groups seeking to defund the police, rather than trying to protect their turf out of reflex.

          I see corporations following their dollar and supporting the movement, and then getting pushed to support it even more.

          I see gang tags sorry "statues of racists" being torn down. That in itself is a removal of power.

          And, yes, I see this in Republican states like Alabama.

          Now, none of this might meet your approval as a true leftist, undistracted by little things like people being murdered by the police. But this change is a wedge for wider change. It shows people that things can change. And hey, if it stops the cops murdering people, that's cool, too.

          • common sense 4.2.1.1.1

            I am not questioning your kindness or intent. It is obvious your heart is in the right place but i think your frustrations are effecting your perception..

            Now that monuments being toppled is being addressed by force you will see far less topple. 10 year sentence anyone? I dont like the police brutality either but lets not let a little thing like 100 shootings in one chicago weekend enter the conversation

            I have only ever voted left but i am no longer left or right . I will not have my emotions or tribal allegiance blind my perception. 

            You were so blinded by your frustration you never addressed my question.. What is the true issue? Democrats have had forever to fix the problem. A black president made how much difference? Always promises made but never kept

            • McFlock 4.2.1.1.1.1

              I saw your question. Your question is the distraction. There is no "true" issue. 

              There are many issues revolving around the power structures in society. Class is a big on, but it is not the root of all of them. Capitalism is a big one, but is not the root of all of them. Then there are all the issues dismissively reduced to "identity politics" by people who wish to avoid them for whatever reason.

              Looking for a single problem to answer is an eternal naivety. But it's simplistic.

              • common sense

                My question is not a distraction. It is a broad and all encompassing perception. 

                We could be living in a totally different social construct. 

                simplistic yes KISS

                There is only one issue . the REST are all distractions . While some people are pushing for change others are buying large amounts of arms to defend themselves against  the same people.. That really sounds like an amazing change that will stand the test of time

                The labour party was formed under UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. Information fields are responsive to emotional context. 

                 

                • McFlock

                  You haven't actually answered your own question.

                   

                  • common sense

                    Mcflock its not that blm is too narrow, I completely support equality and fair play but to me its like putting a band aid on a chainsaw wound, Its an extension of a bigger problem. The other fault i find is its very hard to take the system on , infiltration is much smoother than head on

                    yes you are correct , electronic voting being tampered with is a very reasonable concern.. Solution a paper printout of total talley at conclusion. The total  fors and against should match the digital version.. this will then be audited in physical form . Ie 10 names at random are contacted from the printed list and there position on the matter is verified. To conserve paper small fonts could be used. The electronic part is for convenience and ease of use .  

                    I have spoken to my cousin who is a software developer , its a no brainer , tax number , name and age for sign in. Click on the concern that bothers you and cast your vote or position. 

                    There would need to be laws passed that no person may knowingly give false information or knowingly mislead the public on matters that are up for legislation and very harsh penalties for anyone attempting manipulate the outcome in a nefarious manner

                    Yes direct democracy has its flaws but once bitten twice shy. we would have to learn as we go.. The current system gets it wrong all the time and we accept that

                    Each person would have say 10 points a year , if minorities want to push hard on one law they could burn 1- 10 points on the issue. they could push hard on say climate change but have to refrain from other issues? That bit would probs wiggle a little in prototype stages

                    thanks for the decency of at least hearing me out rather than just shutting it down

                    • McFlock

                      Oh, so 2 million votes say five times a year, that's individually calling 1.5million people to ask how they voted in a secret ballot. Per year.

                      Here's how it works today: representatives watch every vote being put in a box, each box being sealed, each ballot box beingcounted, and each ballot paper is individually linked to having been authorised for use.

                      One can fake a trivial amount of votes, but will probably be caught and can't skew an election. Stacked ballot boxes won't tally with the papers legitimately used and the count for each box, andd shenanigans can be called.

                      Electronic voting: how do you really audit that? How do you tell if someone is lying about a true vote because they changed their mind, or is telling the truth that their ballot has been changed? How do you know their vote has been changed at all?

                      You do know data breaches occur? As soon as you have five million people using something, bad actors will find the flaws, even if your cousin thinks it's fine. You can replace a few hundred thousand e-votes with a usb stick. To replace and destroy a hundred thousand paper ballots is a much less trivial task. The physical barrier adds another layer of difficulty to the voting fraud task.

                      Besides, pretty sure my cellphone won't run the app. I guess I don't get a vote.

                      btw, a bandaid is too narrow for a chainsaw wound.

                • solkta

                  Like McFlock i am wondering what your answer to your question is?

                  • common sense

                    Hello solkta . the issue is the governance 

                    Most of the problems in society could have easily been fixed many times over , the game is rigged in my eyes , lets come to terms with it and move forward

                    We are experiencing the information renascence , we have an ability to self govern through electronic means. There would definitely be teething issues but we could also address the issues that should have but never have been addressed

                    I believe politicians walk a path that makes them slightly detached from the daily life of the average new zealander. I would like to see a party where the people are pulled from society straight to parliament with no grooming. A broad and fair representation of society , be it a little rough around the edges there would surely be some diamonds in the rough

                    Collective participation through electronic means to decide on legislation. If a clear majority of new zealand wants law change , make it so. I had my delusion of democracy shattered with the smacking referendum , when 88% of people agreed but the state legislated in the opposite direction i knew we were living in a dictatorship that was wearing the clever disguise of a democracy

                    electronic self governance is worth a try , we could always revert to the status quo if it failed. It would remove the left , right paradigm and unite all those who wish to participate. It encompasses all and unites the country in way where all could contribute , all classes, races, genders would be equal

                    If the people decide legislation then it removes corruption and individuals belief systems controlling the many..

                    • McFlock

                      Electronic voting will work as well as the electronic census or novopay did: mostly good, but the other bits might cause problems.

                    • solkta

                      smacking referendum , when 88% of people

                      No, half of voters didn't participate in the referendum because the question was idiotic. And most importantly children, those most affected, were not able to vote.There is also the issue of the rule of law. Denying children the basic rights that everybody else has leaves an inconsistent system. You can't claim to have human rights and then deny them to some humans. Fuck, you can't even claim to have animal welfare laws if you deny children the same protection.

                      It encompasses all and unites the country in way where all could contribute , all classes, races, genders would be equal

                      In your system minorities would not be equal because they are minorities. The majority could choose to withdraw from them their rights, as you would have done for children. What if it was put forward that the Treaty should be annulled? Would you like to see this country go down the road of Northern Ireland during The Troubles?

                      While i think the US electoral system is in major need of an overhaul, doing so will not in itself address racism. Your choice of change would in many jurisdictions make the problem worse.    

                  • common sense

                    solkta you are completely missing the point.. It wasnt the question in the referendum it was the governments response to the publics decision. They in essence said we will listen to you and then get fucked in the same sentence.. Do you remember the protests? Remember the kickback. The decision by helen wasnt for good legislation it was because it kept sue bradford happy..

                    You are missing the point completely. 

                    At least the minorities would have some voice.. what traction do they get at present?

                    It would change the whole way people see the world..The collective would engage differently. 

                    Do you think the current system works? to me its like standing into wind taking a piss. we are just wearing it.. 

                    I havnt gone into the complexities , there is a point system for minorities also to level the playing field.. the main thing is the status quo dosnt work

                    I despised john key for what he did to this country but under labour my region has suffered from poor governance in a way i have never witnessed 

                    Question .. do you think that the majority would approve of a decent bill of rights .. i mean actual decent fundamental human rights? 

                     

                    Yes mcflock there would be teething issues . I have spent much time and could right a book on the ways to navigate the issues .. Somebody tell me a way that society can move forward as a whole in a better sense than making its own decisions, the words how great thou art spring to mind if one thinks they should decide all our fate instead of us

                    Another question . would you rather decide your own future or endure another 9 years of national some time in the future..

                    Another question what was the point of that or any other referendum then?? If we are told by the people who are supposed to be our representatives that our voice dosnt matter.. The referendum was legally citizen initiated because society didnt want it , be it right or wrong its our right as humans to make mistakes. we are fellable

                    Last question , do you think maori are fairly represented at present. the status quo you are defending..

                    • McFlock

                      lol "teething issues".

                      It's not the teething issues I have a problem with – it's the idea that an electronic voting system wouldn't be subborned or corrupted to enforce a pseudo-democracy with no direct voting verification.

                      Paper votes can be challenged and audited. Electronic votes cannot.

                      Additionally, direct democracy has its own flaws, like people thinking that "smack as part of good parental correction" is anything other than gibberish. It was slightly more clear than the bullshit sentencing referendum an election or so earlier, but still bunk. And then you get people voting for conflicting propositions and tanking the state economy, like California did at one stage.

                      One thing I will say is that BLM seems to be making progress, even if it is an issue too narrow for your approval.

                      How will you achieve your electronic direct democracy?

                    • solkta

                      The decision by helen wasnt for good legislation it was because it kept sue bradford happy..

                      Grow up. It passed 113 votes to 8. Can't see that John Key had any inclination to keep Sue happy.

                      It's your right to deny others their rights whether that is right or wrong or a mistake or not? Yeh good one. I think i'll leave it there. 

            • Dennis Frank 4.2.1.1.1.2

              It's weird, eh?  People see a bubble and assume it's substantial – dunno where that kind of thinking comes from.  I remember all them media assertions & blog comments agreeing that the Occupy Movement was gonna defeat capitalism, even if the others have forgotten them…

              • McFlock

                So compare the difference between BLM and occupy.

                How diverse was occupy?

                How scared were the cops of it?

                How many city councils changed the cops or wall st because of it?

                • common sense

                  The cops arent scared in the slightest . They are simply pitbulls on a leash. 

                  Soon they will be allowed off the leash. The poor souls in their path will be mincemeat. You can not take the state on with force.. especially the usa . They just have too much force at their disposal

                   

                  • McFlock

                    lol

                    Not entirely sure your assessment of police confidence is entirely accurate, there. Job security in Minneapolis is way down, for a start.

                  • Foreign waka

                    CS, I agree with many of your comments.

                    I think the fallacy is that many "assume" that the environment, attitudes in the US is similar like NZ. It is absolutely not. The US is firstly not a democracy but a hegemony. Secondly, their culture and tradition has not one iota of social responsibility included. Hence, "defending" what is the culture and the right to take as much as one can even at the expense of the greater good is seen as patriotic and admired. Some infer that the folks in the US who have not learned about the concept of social responsibility will do this because it is "right" and from the "heart", it will be a hell of a disappointing experience. 

    • joe90 4.3

      Funny how you're prepared to label red states as racist shitholes.

      //

       

      https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1267625407013982210.html

      • common sense 4.3.1

        Im not labeling them as racist shitholes , im saying there isnt enough unity to inspire true change

        • Incognito 4.3.1.1

          So far, your comments have largely been waffle. Stop beating around the bush, define the issue as you see it, stop waffling about “long term positive change”, “some change”, “true change”, “true revolution”, and “DREAM BIG”, and say what you mean. Please. Thanks.

          Take this, for example, which is just meaningless and self-contradictory non-sense:

          Im not trying to be negative or a pessimist, simply a realist. Some people will always be selfish , come to terms with this and navigate so that even these people are pert of the revolution.. A revolution requires all hands on deck [sic]

          • common sense 4.3.1.1.1

            Its not meaningless . Its the boundry that blm faces. A revolution requires the whole collective and needs everyone on board. Yes black lives have been treated badly but so were the chinese in early new zealand history as an example. 

            There isnt enough kindness or compassion in society to get everyone on board the blm movement. The movement needs to empower and improve the quality of life of the nation, everyone must benefit. Then the selfish people will join the cause.. Is it shit that this is the case .YES definately but it is the case

            I think we all agree that society as a whole could be much better. most who participate here would agree i think.. whilst my input may not serve directly to your current thoughts perhaps some debate/brainstorming is still being contributed

            The labour party was founded on united we stand divided we fall, How far do you think it would have got on westcoast lives matter

            For the first time in recorded history we have the electronic infrastructure to self govern.. I believe this is the direction we should be going. Where we as a collective hold each other accountable and progress forward as one unit. All political parties always let us down in some shape or form. I could deal with collective fuckups but i have no patience for millions of lives at the disposal of a few

            • Incognito 4.3.1.1.1.1

              Ok, I have a mobile phone and so has everyone else and therefore we’re ready to make and change Laws as we see fit and this you call self-governance? I think it is a pretty long bow from BLM and the immense influence of Social Media on our daily lives, thinking, and political actions. Inequality, in all its forms, is inextricably connected to personal freedom. We cannot self-govern if we are not free and as long as we are not free, there will be inequality. Electronic infrastructure has given us an illusion of freedom and I’d go as far as to argue that in some ways we’re less free. Our electronic footprints and tracks can be traced and monitored and current and future employers as well as authorities can monitor our past and present online activities. In the past, did you show your personal diary or letters to your best friend to your boss? I thought not. Rant over and time for music. Bye.

      • common sense 4.3.2

        Those protests look nice and peacefull , no fires , no death , hmmmmmm

    • Gabby 4.4

      Or they realise the only way they'll get to reform the police is if an angry mob runs the union boss (nazi Bob Troll) out of town on a rail.

  5. AB 5

    BLM is not a complete revolution in itself – it's another eruption of discontent, like Occupy, the Sanders/Justice Democrats phenomenon and the Corbyn candidacy. (The last of these you, strangely, despise). Occupy and the Corbyn candidacy were ruthlessly put down, the Justice Democrats roll on with some recent victories despite losing the presidential primary, and BLM is at its peak.

    BLM is likely to be the most successful of these strands in the short-term – because its core demands about policing come from the perspective of identity, and make no direct challenge to the architecture of economic power (who has it, who doesn't, and how it is obtained and maintained). Some of the analysis we have seen out of BLM on the historical purpose of policing touches on these matters – but the joining of the dots that would signify some actual revolution is not there yet.

    • roblogic 5.1

      The UK media are villainous scum and they turned on Corbyn like a pack of rabid dogs. Even the Guardian betrayed its purported liberal leanings by joining in the smear campaign. A disgusting display that shows they work for the 1%, not the people

  6. Pat 6

    "Could anyone imagine that the idea of the modern Police force in the United States would be put in question? Or even that a major city would vote to defund it?"

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018751499/how-police-reform-changed-one-of-us-s-most-violent-cities

  7. Morrissey 7

    The revolution is rejuvenating the Democratic Party too. There's hope in America still, praise the Lord.

  8. Maurice 8

    The red necks and deplorables have not started shooting – yet

    and the Left is now buying guns as fast as they can to be able to shoot back

    If this goes 'HOT" it will be very very messy

    Surely something no one Left or right wishes for?

  9. sumsuch 9

    If you clamp down on the people demo-cracy farts out from strange corners. As long as you don't make a fetish of the corner, and do of the rule of the people. 

    Yankland isn't a social democracy. Gave too much leash to the rich. Or, more succinctly, didn't ever leash them. All the other Anglophone countries did it. With that base you can adjust, whereas America is facing war.

  10. Maurice 10

    May have posted too soon: https://abc7ny.com/18-shot-in-24-hours-nyc-shootings-new-york-city-brooklyn-shooting/6275513/

    At least 18 people were shot in less than 24 hours across New York City as a two week long spike in gun violence across the city continued.

    Police said a total of 70 people were shot this week, compared to 26 the same week last year.

    Interesting – as concealable firearms have generally been unlawful to possess in New York since the passing of the Sullivan Act …. in 1911

  11. greywarshark 11

    Edit
    After Floyd this is a stunner, literally.   From yesterday and to be remembered always – an explicit example of a country that has lost its head.

    Thanks Joe 90 for getting this to us https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-28-06-2020/#comment-172371 it is hard to see but we must. If you are taken to just the head of the post, then flick down to the bottom, it’s one of the last at Number 32.

    If a picture can tell a thousand words, then each frame of this makes up a tome of torment for people being attacked brutally in the USA.    This in Florida, a Republican stronghold, that was in Jeb Bush's hands, one of the famous Bush's.

     

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