The sociopathology of sanctions

Written By: - Date published: 9:08 am, August 11th, 2019 - 206 comments
Categories: child welfare, national, Simon Bridges, us politics, war - Tags:

Autonomous sanctions imposed on Iran and Venezuela by the US are expressly designed to drive whole populations into poverty to bring about regime change. They are sociopathic. Based on its values, The National Party wants to make such sanctions New Zealand’s policy. Extraodinary!

Simon Bridges tied this illegal and immoral policy to New Zealand values in the policy announcement back in May:

In foreign policy, National will ensure we reflect New Zealanders’ values clearly on the world stage. Over the past few years we have seen the emergence of new threats to our freedoms and liberties. We should be prepared to stand against those who would seek to undermine our values.

“That’s why we’re proposing to pass legislation to empower New Zealand to autonomously sanction organisations when the United Nations is unable or unwilling to do so.“

A report on sanctions imposed by the United States on Venezuela from the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington states:

We find that the sanctions have inflicted, and increasingly inflict, very serious harm to human life and health, including an estimated more than 40,000 deaths from 2017–2018; and that these sanctions would fit the definition of collective punishment of the civilian population as described in both the Geneva and Hague international conventions, to which the US is a signatory. They are also illegal under international law and treaties which the US has signed, and would appear to violate US law as well.

That excellent Aussie Caitlin Johnstone spells out why sanctions are attractive to sociopaths (my language) as a form of warfare because their effects are hidden:

As we’ve discussed previously, starvation sanctions are in many ways worse than overt warfare, because they can be just as deadly while eliminating the protective public outcry and accountability that comes with conventional warfare. Sanctions are the only form of warfare where it is considered both legal and acceptable to deliberately target a civilian population with deadly force.

It is an absolute disgrace that National is putting forward this sort of policy. It may be based on National Party values – these are absolutely not New Zealand values.

206 comments on “The sociopathology of sanctions ”

  1. Dukeofurl 1

    From the link to Bridges policy statement

    "

    “National will prioritise our relationship with the United States, and leverage the strong security, economic and political ties with them to bring this important initiative into action.“National will also further the strong and dynamic economic relationship with China. .."

    Hes living in a fantasy world if he thinks both of those will work at the same time and ignores the US-China trade donnybrook

    • A 1.1

      +100
      It seems a vote for National = a vote for the US.

    • Dukeofurl 1.2

      US is sanctioning Chinese companies too, has Bridges heard about a Chinese company called Huawei ?

      Its a total joke to think he can please Trump by aping hime and increase trade with China

  2. francesca 2

    My god! the irony!!

    " Over the past few years we have seen the emergence of new threats to our freedoms and liberties. We should be prepared to stand against those who would seek to undermine our values."

    Julian Assange

    Illegal bombings of Syria

    Undermining of democratically elected governments

    Arms sales to cruel dictatorships

    Breaking of international agreements

    Wholesale pillage of the world's resources

    Increasing environmental vandalism

    If there had been a Russian Jeffrey Epstein who in exchange for a favourable deal, offered to spill the beans on elite establishment figureheads, and was then found to suicide in jail while on suicide watch…whoarr… the sanctions, the thunderings from the pulpits of self righteous hypocritical western govts would have been torrential.

    Interestingly Epstein's suicide comes hot on the heels of one of the principal witnesses declaring that Trump never had sexual relations or flirted with the Epstein minors.

    So the case seems clear

    Full on sanctions against the US and immediate invasion

    • NZJester 2.1

      Over the past few years? I think you need to look back a bit further at how a lot of emerging democracies were snuffed out by the US who backed some ruthless dictators because they feared that the communists would hijack those emerging democracies. That has lead to a lot of the reasons they are now using to remove our freedoms.

  3. Stuart Munro. 3

    The Gnats were always keen on the US – they had unrequited hopes of trade deals – but they weren't always America's bitch. They've a long road back to credibly representing NZ interests.

  4. reason 4

    I read of Judiths support for eliot abrams and the usa coup before other Nats, which fits with her 'crusher' principals……..

    Sanctions are siege warfare …… the victims die of starvation or lack of other basics …. and look exactly like the skeletal victims from the liberated nazi concentration camps , WWII….

    So the victims look the same ,,,, what about the perpetrators ???.

    The UN is ready to help. “The problem is that the opposition wants to come to power by force”.

    De Zayas then spoke about how the UN “came too late” in previous global crises (e.g. Ethiopia/Eritrea, East Timor, and Sudan). However:

    In the case of Venezuela, Secretary General Antonio Guterres has offered his good offices in mediating and the High Commissioner Michelle Bachelet has endorsed the call for mediation. The problem is that the opposition wants to come to power by force – by a coup\

    https://www.thecanary.co/exclusive/2019/02/26/former-un-expert-slams-the-media-for-manufacturing-consent-for-regime-change-in-venezuela/

    https://therealnews.com/stories/catastrophic-death-toll-in-us-saudi-war-on-yemen-has-been-grossly-downplayed

  5. fustercluck 5

    Soooo…ignore international terrorism sponsored by Iran?

  6. Brigid 6

    Not just Venezuela and Iran, but Crimea region of Ukraine, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, Yemen, Zimbabwe

    This website gives details of the OFAC Sanctions Programs

    https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Pages/Programs.aspx

    I very much doubt Soimon has a clue how extensive the US sanctions are, the moron that he is.

  7. Shadrach 7

    "Autonomous sanctions imposed on Iran and Venezuela by the US are expressly designed to drive whole populations into poverty to bring about regime change."

    Well in Venezuela, socialism was already successfully achieving that. https://nypost.com/2017/08/01/venezuela-a-nation-devoured-by-socialism/

    "They are sociopathic. Based on its values, The National Party wants to make such sanctions New Zealand’s policy. Extraodinary!"

    So did you support sanctions against Apartheid South Africa?

    • Incognito 7.1

      You seem to have serious issues with reading comprehension and I’d suggest that you re-read that first sentence with an open mind.

      What “sanctions against Apartheid South Africa” are you referring to? It has been a while so please refresh my memory.

      • Shadrach 7.1.1

        I have no problem with reading comprehension. Socialists are trying to blame Venezuela's economic disaster on sanctions to distract from the failure of yet another socialist economy.

        During apartheid, there were a variety of sanctions (eg financial, sporting) placed on South Africa by a number of countries. But then you know that, so I'm trying to work out why you're asking.

        • Incognito 7.1.1.1

          Well, that’s odd then because your comments strongly suggest you have completely missed or misunderstood the meaning of the first sentence of the OP. In fact, you have completely twisted the key message of the OP to suit your own narrative, which is that socialism leads to economic disaster as exemplified by Venezuela. So, maybe you were indeed correct in saying that you don’t have a problem with reading comprehension and in actual fact, you tried to detract from the OP. Do I have to change letterhead?

          • In Vino 7.1.1.1.1

            Shadrach is utterly disingenuous. I think he knows that the sanctions applied to South Africa (mostly sporting and cultural, and not all that many economic) were not aimed at crippling South Africa's economy, which stayed pretty strong throughout.

            On the other hand, these modern sanctions as enforced against Iran several times now really do cause hardship and loss of life.

            The post is correct, and Shadrach is obfuscating, as usual.

            • Incognito 7.1.1.1.1.1

              Oh, I agree! It is Mike’s prerogative to deal with Shadrach or not as he sees fit. I don’t know where Mike stands if another Moderator ‘takes over’ and this particular comment is a bit of a grey area that one could take or leave either way.

            • Shadrach 7.1.1.1.1.2

              "not all that many economic…"

              You are joking, right? I mean that shows a profound ignorance of history.

              “In 1986 – about 40 years after the beginning of Apartheid – South Africa’s most important trading partners (the USA, the EC, and Japan) imposed economic sanctions. During the course of the 1985 debt crisis, the time seemed to have arrived to finally force the Apartheid regime to its knees by economic sanctions.”
              http://www.snf.ch/SiteCollectionDocuments/nfp/nfp42p/nfp42p_staehelin-e.pdf

              There is plenty of debate about whether or not the sanctions were successful, but there is no debate that economic sanctions existed.

              BTW, I never even mentioned Iran. Take some time to read my posts if you actually want to comment.

              • McFlock

                What was actually written:

                the sanctions applied to South Africa (mostly sporting and cultural, and not all that many economic) were not aimed at crippling South Africa's economy, which stayed pretty strong throughout.

                From the link supplied by shadders:

                In general, sanctions imposed against South Africa were very limited and indicate numerous loopholes and exception clauses. One reason for the limitation surely lay in the fact that the heads of government in Britain, the USA, and Germany did not regard sanctions as the correct means of prompting political change in South Africa

                So not only did the anti-Apartheid sanctions not cripple SA's economy, they weren't intended to do so.

                Funny how shadders fixated so much on refuting his misrepresentation of In Vino's comment that he provided supporting evidence for what In Vino actually wrote. Classic shadders.

                • Shadrach

                  You really struggle to read for comprehension. My response to InVino was with reference to his comment with regards sanctions that "and not all that many economic". That was patently false.

                  • McFlock

                    Exactly. He never said there were none, which is the imaginary comment you were responding to with "there is no debate that economic sanctions existed". Correct. That was never an assertion made by In vino. You made it up, and then to support that straw man you linked to an article that illustrated that the economic sanctions that were imposed were full of loopholes and had barely any effect on the SA economy.

                    Classic shadders.

                    • Shadrach

                      If InVino seriously thinks that there were 'Not all that many economic' sanctions against SA, then perhaps he thinks there are 'not that many' economic sanctions against Venezuela. He must also have a profound ignorance of the economic sanctions that were put in place against SA.

                    • McFlock

                      He must also have a profound ignorance of the economic sanctions that were put in place against SA.

                      What, you mean the "very limited" sanctions with "numerous loopholes and exception clauses", as your own link described them?

                      I mean, if you really want to parse the difference between "not all that many" and "very limited" like some lowest-bidder-supplied chatbot, feel free. It will just be another instance of you progressively failing to comprehend the English language as you repeatedly shoot yourself in the foot.

                    • Shadrach

                      "What, you mean the "very limited" sanctions with "numerous loopholes and exception clauses", as your own link described them?"

                      No. I mean the sanctions imposed by the EU, the US and others that resulted in substantial disinvestment in SA.

                    • McFlock

                      The disinvestment that your own link shows peaked in 1985, a year before the sanctions (described by your link as "very limited" and with "numerous loopholes and exception clauses", remember) were introduced in 1986.

                      So the sanctions "resulted in substantial disinvestment in SA" before they were implemented?

                      I liked this bit of your link (my italics added for emphasis):

                      However, the overall impact of disinvestment on the balance of payments was comparatively minor. It was rather small and unprofitable firms that withdrew from the market. Moreover, there were unintended profiteers. Particularly the large South African conglomerates benefited from American and British sales, since they could acquire divisions of firms at favorable prices.

                      You keep contradicting your own link lol

                    • Shadrach

                      “You keep contradicting your own link lol”

                      You really need to learn to read.

                      "During the sanctions period (4th quarter 1986 – 1st quarter 1991) South Africa suffered a net capital outflow of 16.2 billion rands, which corresponded to an annual average of 2% of GNP."

                      That is 'substantial divestment'. I never claimed it was a world record!

                      And there's more:

                      "Disinvestment (or divestment) from South Africa was first advocated in the 1960s, in protest of South Africa's system of apartheid, but was not implemented on a significant scale until the mid-1980s. The disinvestment campaign, after being realized in federal legislation enacted in 1986 by the United States, is credited by some[2] as pressuring the South African Government to embark on negotiations ultimately leading to the dismantling of the Apartheid system."

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinvestment_from_South_Africa

                      The Disinvestment campaign was not enacted by the US until 1986.

                      InVino claimed that there were 'Not all that many economic' sanctions against SA. He didn't mention the effectiveness of sanctions, he just said there were not all that many. He was plain wrong.

                    • McFlock

                      Original link didn't work so you're switching, huh.

                      And if IV didn't mention the effectiveness of the sanctions, why are you? (btw, now you've linked to contradictory assessments of the effectiveness of the sanctions)

                • Shadrach

                  "Original link didn't work so you're switching, huh."

                  Do you need help finding it from the link? Last paragraph, page 2.

                  "During the sanctions period (4th quarter 1986 – 1st quarter 1991) South Africa suffered a net capital outflow of 16.2 billion rands, which corresponded to an annual average of 2% of GNP."

                  Learn to read, McFlock. Learn to read.

                  • McFlock

                    The paragraph ends:

                    However, the net outflow of foreign investment had already begun before introduction of the sanctions. South Africa suffered its greatest net capital outflow, which led to the moratorium on debt, in 1985, one year before imposition of economic sanctions.

                    As In vino wrote:

                    the sanctions applied to South Africa (mostly sporting and cultural, and not all that many economic) were not aimed at crippling South Africa's economy, which stayed pretty strong throughout.

                    • Shadrach

                      You lied. You said "Original link didn't work so you're switching, huh.". The original link DID work. It said "During the sanctions period (4th quarter 1986 – 1st quarter 1991) South Africa suffered a net capital outflow of 16.2 billion rands, which corresponded to an annual average of 2% of GNP." This directly supports my comment that divestment was significant.

                      InVino also claimed of the sanctions that "not all that many economic". That was bs.

                      Now you're switching to whether or not the sanctions were aimed at 'crippling the SA economy'. No-one gives a shit about the motive. You're only bringing it up because your pathetic attempts to defend InVino have failed.

                    • McFlock

                      lol

                      Even if the entire net outflow were the result of sanctions, you're really working hard to avoid everything else in the link you came up with. Even in the same paragraph as your largely irrelevant extracts.

                      Classic shadders.

                    • Shadrach

                      Seriously?

                      You said "Original link didn't work so you're switching, huh.". The original link DID work. The link supported exactly what I said about divestment, that it was 'significant'. Unless you think "16.2 billion rands: and "an annual average of 2% of GNP." is not significant.

                    • McFlock

                      I'm not sure you realise that not only is your assessment of "significant" irrelevant to the role of economic sanctions in the ending of Apartheid, it is also irrelevant to what In Vino actually said.

                      Your first link held that the sanctions were weak, and distinguished between disinvestment due to sanctions and disinvestment due to other reasons. Your second link generally conflates all forms of no0n-investment, but even that article refers to "disinvestment, boycotts and sanctions".

                      So let's look at In Vino's comment (again):

                      the sanctions applied to South Africa (mostly sporting and cultural, and not all that many economic) were not aimed at crippling South Africa's economy, which stayed pretty strong throughout.

                      In Vino clearly referred to "sanctions". Not "boycotts", or even the wider "divestment"/"disinvestment". The only time you addressed sanctions specifically, you provided a link that explicitly stated pretty much what In Vino wrote. And now you're just swirling around the drain, trying to swim away from the overpowering evidence that you're wrong.

                      Evidence you provided because you didn’t or couldn’t read your own links.

                      Classic shadders.

                    • Shadrach

                      "I'm not sure you realise that not only is your assessment of "significant" irrelevant to the role of economic sanctions in the ending of Apartheid, it is also irrelevant to what In Vino actually said."

                      My response to InVino was directly relevant to his comment with regards sanctions that "and not all that many economic".

                      Do you or do you not agree that there were economic sanctions against SA?

                      “The only time you addressed sanctions specifically, you provided a link that explicitly stated pretty much what In Vino wrote. ”
                      Liar. Again. “During the sanctions period (4th quarter 1986 – 1st quarter 1991) South Africa suffered a net capital outflow of 16.2 billion rands, which corresponded to an annual average of 2% of GNP.” That explicitly contradicts what InVino wrote. But heh, according to you what is or is not ‘significant’ is “irrelevant to what In Vino actually said”, so why the hell raise it?

                    • McFlock

                      Do you or do you not agree that there were economic sanctions against SA?

                      There weren't all that many, as In Vino clearly said.

                      “The only time you addressed sanctions specifically, you provided a link that explicitly stated pretty much what In Vino wrote. ”
                      Liar. Again. “During the sanctions period (4th quarter 1986 – 1st quarter 1991) South Africa suffered a net capital outflow of 16.2 billion rands, which corresponded to an annual average of 2% of GNP.”

                      But the extent of divestment was not the result of sanctions. From the same source:

                      Officially imposed financial sanctions had comparatively little impact on capital outflow. Or, as the president of the South African central bank, De Kock, put it in 1986: “The EEC and US sanctions packages on bank loans and investments do little more than change a de facto into a de jure situation”. From South Africa’s vantage point, financial sanctions hardly prevented flow of capital that would have been transacted without sanctions.

                      In Vino clearly spoke specifically of sanctions. You are not addressing sanctions, but twattling on about divestment and capital outflows that your own source says "hardly prevented flow of capital that would have been transacted without sanctions".

                      Classic shadders: irrelevance matched only by incompetence and arrogance.

                    • Shadrach

                      "There weren't all that many, as In Vino clearly said."

                      Ok, so you're in denial too. Got it.

                      "But the extent of divestment was not the result of sanctions. "

                      Oh so now it’s the ‘extent’ of divestment. Slippery. Where did I refer to the ‘extent’? But if you think sanctions and divestment are somehow disconnected, you missed this bit:

                      "Disinvestment (or divestment) from South Africa was first advocated in the 1960s, in protest of South Africa's system of apartheid, but was not implemented on a significant scale until the mid-1980s. The disinvestment campaign, after being realized in federal legislation enacted in 1986 by the United States, is credited by some[2] as pressuring the South African Government to embark on negotiations ultimately leading to the dismantling of the Apartheid system."

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinvestment_from_South_Africa

                      Oh my – see the word ‘significant’?

                      “In Vino clearly spoke specifically of sanctions. You are not addressing sanctions, but twattling on about divestment ”

                      Are you now trying to claim that there was no link between divestment and sanctions? Are you really that stupid?

                    • McFlock

                      The link between divestment and sanctions is a bit like the link between your failing English skills and your ability to make a complete fool of yourself: one might cause the other to a certain degree, but to credit it as the sole (or even most significant) cause of the other would neglect a multitude of other factors that contribute to either divestment or your catastrophic stupidity.

                      Particularly, just as your foolishness tends to precede your accelerating inability to understand basic English, the most substantial divestment occurred before sanctions were eventually imposed.

                    • Shadrach

                      "The link between divestment and sanctions…"

                      …is obvious. And supported by the link you couldn’t locate. Remember?

                      "one might cause the other to a certain degree…"

                      …oh well done. Previously you ruled out divestment being related to sanctions.

                      "…but to credit it as the sole (or even most significant)…

                      I didn't. Take out the words ‘sole’ and the ‘most’ and you might be approaching what I wrote.

                      You’re making shit up. Again. Your ability to make stuff up seems only matched by your ability to misquote what others actually write. Geez I’ve got a long list in this conversation alone.

                    • McFlock

                      Previously you ruled out divestment being related to sanctions.

                      lol. Not quite.

                      You seem to be trying to suggest that the total extent of divestment indicates something about the total extent of sanctions (either number of sanctions or economic impact thereof). This is not the case, as clearly argued by your first link and indicated by your second.

                    • Shadrach

                      "Not quite."

                      Yep, you did.

                      "You seem to be trying to suggest that the total extent of divestment indicates something about the total extent of sanctions (either number of sanctions or economic impact thereof). "

                      Nope. Never claimed that. I claimed there is a link, which is self evident. Sanctions resulted in at least some of the divestment. As the link I posted showed. The one you claimed didn't exist.

                    • McFlock

                      Nope. Never claimed that. I claimed there is a link, which is self evident. Sanctions resulted in at least some of the divestment. As the link I posted showed. The one you claimed didn't exist.

                      So to counter In Vino's claim that there were "not all that many economic" sanctions, you decided to present data on the total extent of divestment, which does not indicate anything about the extent of sanctions.

                      We seem to be in agreement that your comments about divestment are irrelevant to any discussion on the extent of sanctions.

                      Classic shadders.

                    • Shadrach

                      “So to counter In Vino's claim that there were "not all that many economic" sanctions, you decided to present data on the total extent of divestment…"

                      Now I'm going to call you on this and slam it home, because this is a perfect example of the frequency with which you screw up.

                      My response to InVino was https://thestandard.org.nz/the-sociopathology-of-sanctions/#comment-1645579, and included this:

                      “In 1986 – about 40 years after the beginning of Apartheid – South Africa’s most important trading partners (the USA, the EC, and Japan) imposed economic sanctions. During the course of the 1985 debt crisis, the time seemed to have arrived to finally force the Apartheid regime to its knees by economic sanctions.”
                      http://www.snf.ch/SiteCollectionDocuments/nfp/nfp42p/nfp42p_staehelin-e.pdf

                      NO MENTION OF DIVESTMENT. NONE. NADA.

                      In fact your own reply to me (https://thestandard.org.nz/the-sociopathology-of-sanctions/#comment-1645582) didn’t mention divestment either.

                      The discussion on divestment arose some posts later (https://thestandard.org.nz/the-sociopathology-of-sanctions/#comment-1645909) in and exchange between you and I.

                      So you got this horribly wrong, didn’t you McFlock.

                    • McFlock

                      so to recap:

                      In Vino said there weren't "all that many" sanctions. You brought out your first link that starts with

                      During the course of the 1985 debt crisis, the time seemed to have arrived to finally force the Apartheid regime to its knees by economic sanctions

                      but then describes what actually happened as:

                      In general, sanctions imposed against South Africa were very limited and indicate numerous loopholes and exception clauses. One reason for the limitation surely lay in the fact that the heads of government in Britain, the USA, and Germany did not regard sanctions as the correct means of prompting political change in South Africa

                      When it was pointed out that your first link actually supports In Vino's comment, you brought up the wikipedia link on divestment (either as an intentional distraction or because you're a fucking moron). Which you now acknowledge is irrelevant to any discussion on sanctions.

                      So there are wo links supplied by you, one that supports In Vino's comment and another that is irrelevant to the discussion.

                      Classic shadders.

                    • Shadrach

                      Here's what you wrote:

                      "So to counter In Vino's claim that there were "not all that many economic" sanctions, you decided to present data on the total extent of divestment, which does not indicate anything about the extent of sanctions."

                      All you have to do is go to my actual response to InVino https://thestandard.org.nz/the-sociopathology-of-sanctions/#comment-1645579 to see I never even mentioned divestment. And neither did your response to me.

                      I see those years of working at that University didn’t help your reading skills any.

                    • Shadrach

                      There's something else humorous about your approach.

                      In Vino's comment included this:

                      "I think he knows that the sanctions applied to South Africa (mostly sporting and cultural, and not all that many economic) were not aimed at crippling South Africa's economy, which stayed pretty strong throughout."

                      I have been vey clear that the part I was responding to was the part in emphasis, yet you have been focusing on about the 'crippling South Africa's economy' bit. Poor reading skills, or blatant dishonesty Mc Flock? You're guilty of one of them.

                    • McFlock

                      In general, sanctions imposed against South Africa were very limited and indicate numerous loopholes and exception clauses.

                      Sounds pretty close to "not all that many".

                    • Shadrach

                      "In 1986 – about 40 years after the beginning of Apartheid – South Africa’s most important trading partners (the USA, the EC, and Japan) imposed economic sanctions."

                      "The costs of trade sanctions were greater than those of financial sanctions. The various trade sanctions triggered a range of high costs. The oil embargo represented the most painful measure for South Africa, even if there were significant loopholes. The oil embargo raised the price of petroleum and thus impacted the total population."

                      "The cost of import sanctions especially affected the black population in the form of unemployment. The cost of trade sanctions against South Africa overall were estimated by one study at an annual 1.3% of GNP. Along with the cost of financial sanctions, the cost of economic sanctions against South Africa is estimated to have approximated 1.5% of GNP. Those affected were largely unqualified blacks."

                      Sounds a long way from 'not all that many'.

                      Here’s more:
                      “In response to the outrages of apartheid, many countries adopted trade and financial sanctions and a significant amount of foreign investment was withdrawn from South Africa. After the adoption of sanctions, South Africa experienced economic difficulty and numerous domestic actors commented on how the economic situation was untenable and required political change.”
                      http://www.econ.yale.edu/growth_pdf/cdp796.pdf

                      MANY countries. Sounds a long way from ‘not all that many’.

                    • McFlock

                      Sounds a long way from 'not all that many'.

                      And yet the very same link describes their extent as "very limited" and the costs they imposed as "meager".

                    • Shadrach

                      Yeh, nah.

                      'Many' countries imposing economic sanctions is not consistent with 'not that many' sanctions being economic.

                      And then there's this:

                      "South Africa’s most important trading partners (the USA, the EC, and Japan) imposed economic sanctions"

                      Their most important trading partners.

                      "The various trade sanctions triggered a range of high costs."

                      "The oil embargo raised the price of petroleum and thus impacted the total population."

                      The TOTAL population.

                      "The cost of import sanctions especially affected the black population in the form of unemployment. The cost of trade sanctions against South Africa overall were estimated by one study at an annual 1.3% of GNP. Along with the cost of financial sanctions, the cost of economic sanctions against South Africa is estimated to have approximated 1.5% of GNP. Those affected were largely unqualified blacks."

                      1.5% of GNP.

                      But no, you still argue that 'not that many' sanctions were economic. I suspect you know you're wrong, but you're just too stupid to admit it.

                    • McFlock

                      Neither your first link nor you irrelevant link nor even In vino's comment say "many countries" imposed sanctions. So you made that bit up. And "their most important trading partners" includes only three in the list, which is "a few", not even "not all that many".

                      Your link is the one that says 1.5% of GNP is a "meager" impact on the total population, from a "very limited" set of sanctions.

                      I'm happy to accept the relevant that you presented. You failed to read it properly.

                      Classic shadders.

                    • Shadrach

                      “Neither your first link nor you irrelevant link nor even In vino's comment say "many countries" imposed sanctions.”

                      “And "their most important trading partners" includes only three in the list…”

                      You didn't read it, did you.

                      “In 1986 – about 40 years after the beginning of Apartheid – South Africa’s most important trading partners (the USA, the EC, and Japan) imposed economic sanctions."

                      The USA, the EC and Japan is not 3 countries, you fwit. The EC is the executive of the EU. The EU is currently 28 countries/states.

                      Now, what were you saying?

                    • McFlock

                      EC was one market and trading partner, idiot.

                      This is a failing dolt45 has, too – he kept trying to ask Merkel for a separate trade deal with Germany. She kept politely telling him it couldn't be done.

                      Either way, one set of sanctions from the EC. One set of sanctions from Japan. One set of sanctions from the USA. Not all that many, really.

                      Repeating dolt45 mistakes – classic shadders

                    • Shadrach

                      "EC was one market and trading partner…"

                      And 28 countries. The comment I referenced referred to 'countries'. You just don't read well.

                      And if you think that 30 countries, including two of the largest trade blocs on the planet, represent 'not that many', I have a large bridge to sell you.

                    • Shadrach

                      More education for you McFlock:

                      https://www.odi.org/sites/odi.org.uk/files/odi-assets/publications-opinion-files/6704.pdf

                      "Excluding gold, South Africa's major export markets have been in Western Europe, the United States and Japan; these countries have also been the main suppliers of South Africa's imports. In 1984, just eight countries — Britain, West Germany, France, Italy, Belgium, the United States, Switzerland and Japan — took 71% of South Africa's non-gold exports and supplied 78% of its imports. The United States, West Germany, Japan and Britain alone provided South Africa with some 60% of its total imports.1 EEC countries on their own took over 40% of South Africa's exports and provided over 40% of its imports."

                      Not that many, eh McFlock. I still have that bridge to sell you.

                    • McFlock

                      lol

                      The comment I referenced referred to 'countries'

                      So your third attempt at a link broke down EEC imports by country. So what. They were EEC sanctions, not French or Dutch. One market, one set of sanctions implemented, no matter how many states.

                      And who cares what percentage of SA exports the EEC took – all sanctions together had a "meager" impact on the SA economy, because they were "very limited". Talking about the size of export markets is even less relevant to the extent of sanctions than talking about overall divestment.

                      So that's three links you've presented, one supporting the comment you oppose and two being irrelevant.

                      Classic shadders.

                    • Shadrach

                      “So your third attempt at a link broke down EEC imports by country. So what. They were EEC sanctions, not French or Dutch. One market, one set of sanctions implemented, no matter how many states."

                      The EC is a group of nations. 28 as of last count. That means (around) 28 countries engaged in the sanctions, + the US, Japan (& others?). That isn’t 3. It is a significant block of the worlds economy. You're strenuously trying to squeeze through the eye of a needle. It's humorous reading.

                      "And who cares what percentage of SA exports the EEC took – all sanctions together had a "meager" impact on the SA economy, because they were "very limited". "

                      You are confused. I wasn't referring to the 'impact', only that InVino was talking shit trying to imply not many of the sanctions were economic. A significant part of the global economy imposed economic sanctions. Those sanctions were imposed by countries engaged in significant proportions of SA’s trade. You’re pushing shit up hill with a comb, McFlock, and it’s running down all over your arguments.

                    • McFlock

                      A significant part of the global economy imposed economic sanctions.

                      3+ markets, lol

                      Those sanctions were imposed by countries engaged in significant proportions of SA’s trade.

                      But were "very limited", and that trade was also affected by boycotts and simple divestment for commenrcail, not sanction, reasons.

                    • Shadrach

                      “3+ markets, lol”

                      Are you suggesting that the 28 nations of the EU + the USA + Japan do not represent a ‘significant part of the global economy’?

                      “But were "very limited"”

                      Based on the proportion of SA’s economy these countries represented, it certainly wasn’t limited. But you know that.

                    • Shadrach

                      I've also been waiting for you to show any sense of awareness of sanctions imposed on SA by other countries than the 28ish in the EC, the USA and Japan. Clearly your knowledge is very limited.

                      Here’s another. Canada. From July 1985.

                    • McFlock

                      Are you suggesting that the 28 nations of the EU + the USA + Japan do not represent a ‘significant part of the global economy’?

                      Nope. Just that 3 markerts imposing "very limited" sanctions full of loopholes to "meager" effect is closer to "not all that many" than whatever wank you're trying to argue.

                      Here’s another. Canada. From July 1985.

                      4 markets then. If I wasn't overly impressed by token sanctions full of loopholes against 40% of SA's exports, <41% won't cut it.SA's exports at the time… by the way, these Canadian sanctions – did they eliminate trade between the two nations, or was this 1% partneship simply reduced to, say, 0.5%? Very limited and full of loopholes, indeed.

                      The bulk of economic pressure on South Africa came from boycotts and divestment from businesses that didn't want to be boycotted in their home countries. There weren't actually very many economic sanctions at all. Your sources have come up with 4.

                    • Shadrach

                      "Nope. Just that 3 markerts imposing "very limited" sanctions full of loopholes to "meager" effect is closer to "not all that many" than whatever wank you're trying to argue."

                      ‘Not all that many’ makes no judgement on the outcome. But then you know that. Which makes you a liar. And I just thought you were stupid.

                      "4 markets then."

                      So we’re up to 28+2+1 countries. How much of the global GDP is represented by the entire EC, the USA, Canada and Japan? I'll bet it's nearer to 'many' than 'not that many'

                    • Shadrach

                      Now, lets add more, shall we.

                      https://www.odi.org/sites/odi.org.uk/files/odi-assets/publications-opinion-files/6704.pdf

                      "June 1986 Denmark announces a ban on all trade in goods and services except the export of medicines, from December 1986."

                      "October 1986 Republic of Ireland introduces restrictive licences for imports of South African fruit and vegetables. Total ban after January 1987."

                      "November 1986 Hong Kong bans imports of South African iron and steel products."

                      That's 3 more.

                      So that’s all the countries in the EC in 1986 (I looked it up, it was 12) + USA + Japan + Canada + Denmark + Republic of Ireland + Hong Kong +++++

                    • Incognito []

                      Sigh

                      So that’s all the countries in the EC in 1986 (I looked it up, it was 12) + USA + Japan + Canada + Denmark + Republic of Ireland + Hong Kong +++++

                      Ireland and Denmark joined the EEC in 1973. Hong Kong was still British and the UK was, you guessed it, a member of the EEC since 1973 too.

                    • McFlock

                      4 sets of sanctions. Not all that many.

                      By the way… how many countries were in the EEC in 1990?

                      Looks like your overinflated tally has just halved…

                      Classic shadders.

                    • Shadrach

                      https://www.odi.org/sites/odi.org.uk/files/odi-assets/publications-opinion-files/6704.pdf

                      "In 1984, just eight countries — Britain, West Germany, France, Italy, Belgium, the United States, Switzerland and Japan — took 71% of South Africa's non-gold exports and supplied 78% of its imports. The United States, West Germany, Japan and Britain alone provided South Africa with some 60% of its total imports.1 EEC countries on their own took over 40% of South Africa's exports and provided over 40% of its imports."

                      And you're still arguing that 'not that many' sanctions were economic.

                    • Shadrach

                      How much of the global GDP was represented by the entire EC, the USA, Canada, Japan, Republic of Ireland, Denmark, Hong Kong?

                      I'll bet it's nearer to 'many' than 'not that many'. And I've got more.

                      “In addition, Norway has stated its future intention of ceasing all trade with South Africa, Sweden has banned the import of all agricultural commodities from South Africa, the Nordic countries have banned all air links with South Africa…” https://www.odi.org/sites/odi.org.uk/files/odi-assets/publications-opinion-files/6704.pdf

                    • Shadrach

                      EC in 1986 (+ the UK):

                      Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Denmark, Ireland, Greece, Spain, Portugal.

                      Others (so far)

                      USA, Japan, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Canada, Republic of Ireland, Hong Kong.

                      More to come.

                    • McFlock

                      "In 1984, just eight countries — Britain, West Germany, France, Italy, Belgium, the United States, Switzerland and Japan — took 71% of South Africa's non-gold exports and supplied 78% of its imports.

                      Switzerland?! Your first link examined at length whether Switzerland not imposing sanctions impacted the effectiveness of sanctions overall (spoilers: it didn't, because sanctions in general were very limited and full of exceptions and loopholes). It even says it right up the top:

                      The study examines if the fact that Switzerland did not take part in official economic sanctions delayed the political transformation of South Africa

                      So all you've done is list a bunch of countries, some of which imposed sanctions that were "very limited" and full of exceptions and loopholes. More irrelevant bullshit, in other words.

                      Classic shadders.

                    • Shadrach

                      To Incognito

                      "Ireland and Denmark joined the EEC in 1973. Hong Kong was still British and the UK was, you guessed it, a member of the EEC since 1973 too."

                      Yep, you're right about Ireland and Denmark. I had already excluded the UK. For now.

                    • Shadrach

                      "Switzerland?! "

                      Yeah, Switzerland. It was my link remember (although you may not seeing as you struggled to find it on one occasion). But did you notice all the other countries listed? You know, the ones that DID impose sanctions?

                      “So all you’ve done is list a bunch of countries, some of which imposed sanctions that were “very limited” and full of exceptions and loopholes.”

                      The words ‘Limited’ and ‘exceptions and loopholes’ are irrelevant to what InVino claimed. Even they were correct. That list of nations comprise a substantial portion of the global GDP, and they all imposed sanctions.

                    • Shadrach

                      Oh and http://www.econ.yale.edu/growth_pdf/cdp796.pdf

                      "In response to the outrages of apartheid, many countries adopted trade and financial sanctions and a significant amount of foreign investment was withdrawn from South Africa."

                      MANY countries. I posted that earlier, but you must have missed it. Lol.

                    • McFlock

                      MANY countries. I posted that earlier, but you must have missed it. Lol.

                      But not all that many sanctions. All of the economic sanctions described as "very limited" or "limited", similar descriptions to your first link. So many countries paid lipservice while protecting their own industries, but actual economic sanctions rather than protectionism under the guise of social justice? Not all that many.

                      You really should read your own links, rather than just looking for bitsa you can misconstrue into agreement with whatever nutbar claim you pulled out of your arse.

                      Classic shadders

                    • McFlock

                      The words ‘Limited’ and ‘exceptions and loopholes’ are irrelevant to what InVino claimed. Even they were correct. That list of nations comprise a substantial portion of the global GDP, and they all imposed sanctions.

                      "Limited" is the important bit. "not all that many" is a comparative, not an absolute. 30 Soldiers can be a lot in a small room, not all than many when facing a regiment. So a bunch of trading partners made some half-arsed measures when boycotts and basic economic divestment were already doing the bulk of the work. Big deal. A 1% trading partner halved its imports from SA – again, so what and how much of that was due to boycotts rather than sanctions? OECD took decades to respond in a half-arsed manner. Gleneagles was a decade before the bulk of the token efforts you think count as "many" economic sanctions. Sums it all up – sporting, cultural, but not all that many economic.

                    • Shadrach

                      "But not all that many sanctions. "

                      And then you go one to say 'all of the sanctions…'. Sniff.

                    • Shadrach

                      ""not all that many" is a comparative, not an absolute."

                      And you've been trying to shift the debate away from that comparative to the impacts of the sanctions, the motives behind the sanctions, in fact just about anything other what InVino actually wrote!

                    • McFlock

                      lol divestment dude accuses opponent of digression for talking about sanctions in an argument about sanctions..

                      Classic shadders. Night night.

                    • Shadrach

                      “…divestment dude accuses opponent of digression for talking about sanctions in an argument about sanctions.”

                      The argument isn’t about sanctions, per se. It is about whether or not the sanctions against SA were ‘not that many economic’.

                      You’ve tried everything to weasel your way out of actually arguing that point since about https://thestandard.org.nz/the-sociopathology-of-sanctions/#comment-1645926, when I caught you out lying about the link I provided.

                      Since then it’s been the impact of sanctions, whether or not they were designed to cripple the SA economy, divestment, in fact just about anything to avoid actually addressing my only comment to InVino. The idea that the sanctions against SA were ‘not that many economic’ is bs. And you running around the houses tends to indicate you know that.

                      Meanwhile, when you stated that there were only 3 trading partners who instituted sanctions, were you really that ignorant?

                    • McFlock

                      The argument isn’t about sanctions, per se. It is about whether or not the sanctions against SA were ‘not that many economic’.

                      or aimed at crippling SA's economy. cf: In vino's original comment:

                      the sanctions applied to South Africa (mostly sporting and cultural, and not all that many economic) were not aimed at crippling South Africa's economy, which stayed pretty strong throughout.

                      what was never close to relevant was divestment, SA's total trade balance, or whether the single set of sanctions from the EEC involved 28 countries or twelve.

                      Classic shadders.

                    • Shadrach

                      "or aimed at crippling SA's economy. cf: In vino's original comment:"

                      A part of his comment I didn't respond to. You've been confused about what was actually said all along. That showed in your introducing a whole raft of irrelevant topics.

                      "what was never close to relevant was divestment,"

                      I didn't raise divestment with InVino. I raised it in response to a post from you.

                      "or whether the single set of sanctions from the EEC involved 28 countries or twelve."

                      Well…that is relevant if you're claiming there were 'not that many economic' sanctions. I know you think the EC is a country, but the reality is there were many economic sanctions imposed by many countries.

                      But it's been good watching you squirm around trying to pretend sanctions from a countries major trading partners, in addition to many other countries, are 'not that many', simply because you think they had no impact.

                    • McFlock

                      Not one country. One market, with one set of trade rules, and one set of sanctions. That's literally what the purpose of the EEC was.

                      As for divestment, with whom you raised it is irrelevant. In Vino talked about sanctions. I talked about sanctions. You confused divestment with sanctions and brought up a wikipedia article on divestment because your first link supported In Vino's characterisation of the sanctions. You brought up a list of SA's trading partners when the issue was sanctions.

                      If there were "many" economic sanctions, why was there so little effect? 1.5% of GNP? From a global ban by the bulk of their trading partners? It's a joke. You're a joke.

                    • Shadrach

                      “Not one country. One market, with one set of trade rules, and one set of sanctions. That's literally what the purpose of the EEC was.”

                      Well no. The UK joined the EU in 1973, but it was generally opposed to sanctions against South Africa.

                      “As for divestment, with whom you raised it is irrelevant.”

                      No, it isn’t. I didn’t respond to InVino about divestment. Although you claimed I did (https://thestandard.org.nz/the-sociopathology-of-sanctions/#comment-1647453).

                      “You confused divestment with sanctions…”

                      No, I didn't. I raised the issue of divestment because you stated "What, you mean the "very limited" sanctions with "numerous loopholes and exception clauses" (https://thestandard.org.nz/the-sociopathology-of-sanctions/#comment-1645718) My response was that the sanctions led to significant divestment, and I provided evidence for that. You did get somewhat confused afterwards however, losing the link (https://thestandard.org.nz/the-sociopathology-of-sanctions/#comment-1645926)

                      “…and brought up a wikipedia article on divestment because your first link supported In Vino's characterisation of the sanctions. ‘

                      My first link directly contradicted InVino’s claim.

                      “You brought up a list of SA's trading partners when the issue was sanctions.”

                      Well yes, it is trading partners who impose sanctions, lol.

                      “If there were "many" economic sanctions, why was there so little effect?”

                      Actually that is debatable. I could provide you with plenty of references to show they DID have a material effect. I could point you to comments such as “one could argue that they (sanctions) were the “final straw” that made economic conditions intolerable and forced political change. http://www.econ.yale.edu/growth_pdf/cdp796.pdf. But I’d be following you down your own rabbit hole, and in truth I’m not a fan because they tend to hurt the most vulnerable disproportionately. As they did in SA. But here’s the thing – the impact of sanctions was never the point.

                      There are many reasons sanctions may not have been as effective in SA. After all they have had only limited effect in other cases. (“In Russia the sanctions have not been successful and I do not think they ever will be. Russians are tough people, the country is big and has a powerful neighbour. This means not all countries can be destroyed, or drummed into obedience through sanctions to initiate regime change.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Economic_sanctions).

                      I’ll leave you with this. From an article that argues sanctions generally don’t work:

                      https://www.businessinsider.com.au/why-sanctions-wont-work-july-16-2014-7?r=US&IR=T

                      “Sanctions have failed to dissuade Iran from continuing to enrich uranium. They haven’t dislodged North Korea’s repressive and erratic leaders or forced a rollback of their nuclear and missile programs. For all the international pressure on Syria’s Assad, the regime is getting more ruthless, not less, and the policy debate in Washington has moved on to how much military support to provide the rebels.”

                      But interestingly, the article finishes with this:

                      “None of this is to say that sanctions never work, the dissolution of South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime is a case in point.”

                    • McFlock

                      The UK might have disagreed, but the EEC sanctions remained in place because that's how a single marketplace establishes its trade rules.

                      My response was that the sanctions led to significant divestment, and I provided evidence for that.

                      The divestment that your first link clearly states was larger before sanctions were introduced.

                      The divestment that you admitted does not indicate the extent of sanctions.

                      The divestment that several of your links clearly state was mostly the result of boycotts and business decisions relating to the SA economy, not sanctions.

                      And unless your "case in point" link actually calculates the effect of sanctions and comes up with a different result to your first link… yawn.

                    • Shadrach

                      “The UK might have disagreed, but the EEC sanctions remained in place because that's how a single marketplace establishes its trade rules.”

                      But the UK didn’t only disagree, they didn’t line up with the EU on the sanctions.

                      “The divestment that your first link clearly states was larger before sanctions were introduced.”

                      The link showed that divestment was significant after the introduction of sanctions.

                      “The divestment that several of your links clearly state was mostly the result of boycotts and business decisions relating to the SA economy, not sanctions.”

                      “The disinvestment campaign, after being realized in federal legislation enacted in 1986 by the United States, is credited by some[2] as pressuring the South African Government to embark on negotiations ultimately leading to the dismantling of the Apartheid system."

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinvestment_from_South_Africa

                      “And unless your "case in point" link actually calculates the effect of sanctions and comes up with a different result to your first link… yawn.”

                      The link refers to studies that do precisely that. Now most seem to indicate sanctions have little impact. And yet there is that last, very inconvenient comment about South Africa.

                    • McFlock

                      lol

                      The entire divestment campaign? Again? You are incapable of restricting yourself to the topic at hand.

                    • Shadrach

                      “The entire divestment campaign? Again? You are incapable of restricting yourself to the topic at hand.”

                      I was responding to YOUR comment:

                      “The divestment that several of your links clearly state was mostly the result of boycotts and business decisions relating to the SA economy, not sanctions.”

                      In case you missed it, the quote refers specifically to the divestment campaign being enshrined in legislation in 1986.

                    • McFlock

                      lol "enshrined". You do love to overstate shite when you don't even understand it.

                      Anyhoo, introductory paragraphs saying "some" people might support a position on the impact of sanctions (when you've said repeatedly that the efect of sanctions wasn't the topic of discussion) aside, you're as entertainingly stupid as ever.

                      Classic shadders.

                    • Shadrach

                      “lol "enshrined".”

                      Yes. In 1986. I guess you needed to look the word up in the dictionary?

                      “Anyhoo, introductory paragraphs saying "some" people might support a position on the impact of sanctions (when you've said repeatedly that the efect of sanctions wasn't the topic of discussion)…”

                      …shows that even as an attempted diversion you haven’t got a clue.

              • Incognito

                BTW, I never even mentioned Iran. Take some time to read my posts if you actually want to comment.

                Iran and Venezuela were both mentioned in the first sentence of the OP, which happens to your favourite sentence to cite. Take some time to re-read the first sentence of the OP and the whole OP because it is obvious that you are only using it as platform for your anti-socialist rants. You are most definitely twisting words and meanings to suit your own narrative – it is your MO.

                • Shadrach

                  I never mentioned Iran. You were responding to my post, not the OP.

                  • Incognito

                    I can follow the thread just fine, thanks. Iran was mentioned in the OP, in the first sentence. In Vino commented on the correctness of the OP. You were replying to In Vino’s comment. Every time somebody mentions Iran, because it is in the OP, you start to protest obtrusively “I never mentioned Iran”. This is because it doesn’t suit your narrative, which you’re trying to force upon us. You seem to think that we will bow to you and that it is all about you while in reality, we’re responding to the OP and wiping the floor with your silly detractions and poor reading comprehension.

                    • Shadrach

                      "You were replying to In Vino’s comment. "

                      About socialism in Venezuela. A country specifically referred to in the OP. So yeah I was responding directly to the OP. Just not in a way you like. Get over yourself.

                    • Incognito []

                      You deliberately misread In Vino’s comment just as you misread the OP. Just admit it.

                    • Shadrach

                      "You deliberately misread In Vino’s comment just as you misread the OP. Just admit it."

                      You've misread just about everything I've written. Just admit it.

                    • Incognito []

                      I tried, honestly, I tried. But it was impossible to read and make sense of your gibberish.

                    • In Vino

                      Shadrack, my comment was exactly as Incognito said, and you are deliberately misconstruing it. Are you a dumb-ass, or are you deliberately lying? Your choice.

                    • David Mac

                      Are you guys sure you're focused on what's important?

                    • David Mac

                      People, we start with people and fan out from there. Environs first, family, village, globe.

                      We will never save our home planet while we continue to play stupid games of leverage like sanctions.

                      Anyone conspiring with a motivation like "How can we hurt them?" It's not a step forward.

                    • David Mac

                      The way to make everything ok is to make women the boss of everything.

                      This remedy has never failed for me.

            • Shadrach 7.1.1.1.1.3

              "Shadrack, my comment was exactly as Incognito said…"

              Which comment? The one where you stupidly claimed that sanctions against SA were "not all that many economic"? Or the one where you stated that "I think he knows that the sanctions applied to South Africa were not aimed at crippling South Africa's economy" when I never claimed otherwise? I’d really like to know, because your comments have hardly been informative.

              "Are you a dumb-ass, or are you deliberately lying? Your choice."

              #3. You were talking out of your arse and I called you on it.

              • McFlock

                #3. You were talking out of your arse and I called you on it.

                Not according to the links you provided.

                • Shadrach

                  Precisely from the links I provided. When as many as 30+ countries engage in sanctions, that qualify as more than not many. When those sanctions cover the extent of the countries economy my links show, then that qualifies as more than not many.

              • In Vino

                The comment Incognito was referring to, obviously. What kind of backsliding dissembler are you??

          • Shadrach 7.1.1.1.2

            The first sentence of the OP was:

            "Autonomous sanctions imposed on Iran and Venezuela by the US are expressly designed to drive whole populations into poverty to bring about regime change."

            I even quoted that in my response, which was to point out that the sanctions were not required to achieve any of that. Socialism was achieving that all on it's lonesome. So no, I haven’t twisted anything. You seem to be having some trouble understanding the point, that is all.

            • lprent 7.1.1.1.2.1

              Iran isn’t socialist?

              Personally I’d argue that Venezuela hasn’t been particularly either – the primary approach of its government under Chavez was nationalistic with the veneer of socialism and a jammed up partisan political system. Just like the US is currently quite nationalistic with a veneer of capitalism and jammed up partisan political system. Both have a crony political system with economic favours being down for political advantage.

              • Shadrach

                I didn't even refer to Iran, either way. I doubt there is any nation on the planet that has pure socialism or pure capitalism. But the Venezuelan regime, like it or not, has gone well done the path to socialism, a path well trodden with failure.

                • KJT

                  Funny how the countries which have gone "furthest down the path to socialism" including New Deal USA, which went a lot further than Venezuela, BTW, have been the most successful societies in human history.

                  • Shadrach

                    Clearly you don't understand what constitutes socialism.

                    • KJT

                      It is you that confuses Socialism with authoritarian communism.

                    • Shadrach

                      No, I understand the nuances of political and economic systems quite well. Although drawing a link between socialism and authoritarianism does have some historical basis.

                    • KJT

                      Not as strong as the link between right wing fascism and authoritarianism.

                      In fact socialist countries tend to be democratic.

                      It is Oligarchies who need secret police.

                    • Shadrach

                      "In fact socialist countries tend to be democratic."

                      Yeah, of course. Like the Soviet Union, and it's satellites. The problem with socialism is that it doesn't take long for the citizenry to realise how oppressive it is as an economic system, at which time it's leaders have to begin political repression to keep the masses under control.

                      Conversely, capitalist and mixed market economies thrive on private property ownership and individual effort, and so by default tend to be more free.

                    • KJT

                      Like the huge long list of countries where the population willingly voted for right wing Capitalism, Eh?

                      The USA has now killed more people removing democratic Governments, to impose right wing dictatorships, than Stalin did.

                      Who needs violence to get people to use their economic system, again?

                      Meanwhile the most socialist countries have the worlds highest standard of living. And the most stable societies.

                      Keep going down your delusional rabbit hole.

                    • Shadrach

                      "Like the huge long list of countries where the population willingly voted for right wing Capitalism."

                      Generally capitalism and mixed market economies exist in democratic countries, yes. NZ being a good example.

                      "The USA has now killed more people removing democratic Governments, to impose right wing dictatorships, than Stalin did."

                      Really? Your evidence?

                      "Meanwhile the most socialist countries have the worlds highest standard of living."

                      Such as?

                    • Shadrach

                      "In 2017, the highest standard of living was in Liechtenstein, with $139,100 per person."

                      https://www.thebalance.com/standard-of-living-3305758

                      “Despite its limited natural resources, Liechtenstein is one of the few countries in the world with more registered companies than citizens; it has developed a prosperous, highly industrialized free-enterprise economy and boasts a financial service sector as well as a living standard that compares favourably with those of the urban areas of Liechtenstein's much larger European neighbours.”

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein

            • Incognito 7.1.1.1.2.2

              Please allow me to paraphrase you:

              Socialism=bad and sanctions=whatever

              • Shadrach

                Yep, socialism sucks. It is generally linked to an oppressive government (mostly because the citizenry soon come to understand how stupid it is) and abject economic ruin.

                Sanctions, well I'm not a fan. They only seem to hurt the poor. In South Africa local corporations made huge profits when foreign owners ditched shares.

                • Incognito

                  Your reading miscomprehension and prejudice are such that you seem to think because socio-pathology and socialism have the same root, they have the same negative connotation.

                  If you had actually properly read the OP, you might have realised that the words “socialism” and “socialist” do not appear, not once. You might actually realise the OP is about sanctions. Further, and here it might get too technical for you, the OP wasn’t about just any sanctions but a special case of sanctions (e.g. see first sentence of the OP) that are “in many ways worse than overt warfare”.

                  • Shadrach

                    "If you had actually properly read the OP, you might have realised that the words “socialism” and “socialist” do not appear, not once. You might actually realise the OP is about sanctions."

                    Sanctions that the author blamed for outcomes that were already happening due to socialism. Your sensitivity to criticism of your pet project is amusing though.

                    • Incognito

                      My pet project cannot be found on this site.

                      Sanctions that the author blamed for outcomes that were already happening due to socialism.

                      Incorrect again. The Author did not exclusively blame the sanctions for certain outcomes; he talked about the intentions of sanctions (or rather of the Governments) to achieve these outcomes and the fact that the NZ National Party fully supports those intentions and aspires to be a minion of the US. In any case, it is a nation’s sovereign right to determine their own path and fate; in some places, it is called freedom, human rights, and democracy. Sanctions are anything but.

                    • Shadrach

                      "The Author did not exclusively blame the sanctions for certain outcomes…"

                      Oh how convenient, the addition of the word 'exclusively'. I never claimed he did claim anything 'exclusively'.

                      "In any case, it is a nation’s sovereign right to determine their own path and fate; in some places, it is called freedom, human rights, and democracy. "

                      Indeed. Including imposing sanctions on another country.

                    • Incognito []

                      My apologies, I should have worded it better.

                      You said:

                      Socialism was achieving that all on it’s lonesome. [my emphasis]

                      And you said, repeatedly in various variations:

                      Sanctions that the author blamed for outcomes that were already happening due to socialism.

                      So, it is you actually who argues that the sanctions were not responsible for the outcomes that were already happening. The Author never went for an either-or binary cause of outcomes but you did. It never occurred to you that sanctions on an already fragile economy and nation could indeed have disastrous effects on its population. It is like kicking somebody who is already down.

                      Indeed. Including imposing sanctions on another country.

                      Dear oh dear! Clearly, not all sanctions are equal in intention and outcome. Cultural sanctions are not quite the same as the sanctions that the Author was referring to in his first sentence that have or are a “deadly force”. You should become a policy writer for Simon Bridges. Are you also in favour of meddling into a sovereign nation’s politics and running subversive political interference?

                    • Shadrach

                      "So, it is you actually who argues that the sanctions were not responsible for the outcomes that were already happening. The Author never went for an either-or binary cause of outcomes but you did. It never occurred to you that sanctions on an already fragile economy and nation could indeed have disastrous effects on its population. It is like kicking somebody who is already down."

                      Why would you think that never occurred to me? Venezuela has not had sanctions imposed by every country on the planet. They can still trade with any number of other nations. But it's good that you are admitting that socialism had already stuffed their economy.

                    • Incognito []

                      The sanctions did nothing; all damage was caused by socialism. Right?

                      I did not admit such a thing; it is that beam coming out of your own mind that is reflecting back and burning the evil word on the back of the inside of your skull: msilaicos. Do you feel the burn?

                    • Shadrach

                      "The sanctions did nothing; all damage was caused by socialism. Right?"

                      Geez your comprehension really is poor. I never claimed any such thing. But watching you dance around how sanctions work here and not there, and misrepresenting my comments is a thing of beauty. Do you feel better?

                    • Incognito []

                      You claimed repeatedly that “that the author blamed for outcomes that were already happening due to socialism” [your words, BTW, I’m just quoting and mentioning them] and “Socialism was achieving that all on it’s lonesome” [your words again]. I can’t help it if you fail on your own logic. I feel sorry for you; you seem so confused.

                    • Shadrach

                      "You claimed repeatedly that “that the author blamed for outcomes that were already happening due to socialism” [your words, BTW, I’m just quoting and mentioning them] and “Socialism was achieving that all on it’s lonesome” [your words again]. "

                      Yep, and yep. But I never claimed sanctions did ‘nothing’.

                    • Incognito []

                      That’s because you fail to fully comprehend your own comments.

                      You masterly deflected from the message of the OP and I have spent enough time on you to know that you don’t comment in good faith here. I foresee a ban for you, after a warning, of course.

                      Bye for now; it won’t be long, I’m sure about that.

                    • Shadrach

                      "You masterly deflected from the message of the OP…"

                      Nope. The author claimed that sanctions against Venezuela were "expressly designed to drive whole populations into poverty to bring about regime change." I simply responded that any sanctions were a bit late, when socialism had already stuffed Venezuela. Since then you've been chasing yourself around after my comments. Sad.

          • Shadrach 7.1.1.1.3

            "There is a tendency on the political left to avoid placing blame on a party seen as weaker. Thus in a dispute between the United States and Venezuela, the bias is to blame Venezuela’s woes on outside actors. But at most, the United States is playing a small role. Venezuelan government policy is largely of its own making, and the country’s economy was imploding a long time before the U.S. imposed broader sanctions under the Trump administration."

            https://2020watch.org/2019/01/25/venezuelas-economy-was-imploding-long-before-trump-imposed-sanctions-suggesting-bernie-sanders-is-right-to-blame-Maduro/

            • KJT 7.1.1.1.3.1

              Regurgitating Fox news myths, seems to be your specialty.
              There is a tendency on the political right, to blame a "Socialist" Government, which has been in power for a short time, for many decades of right wing corruption, inequality, rascism, poverty and authoritarian rule.

              Chavez had significant success in reducing poverty, raising the amount of educated people in Venezuela, reducing inequality and removing corruption.

              Despite being no more socialist than our National party.

              Which, of course is why the USA could not let them succeed.

              • Shadrach

                The socialist government in Venezuela has not been in power for a 'short time', but good try. If Venezuela was the only example of the failure of socialism, you might have a case. Unfortunately for you, it is one of many,

                • dv

                  it is one of many,

                  NAME them.

                  • Shadrach

                    The entire former soviet block. Google it.

                    • dv

                      NOPE you made the statement YOU justify it.

                      OK then explain how the ENTIRE soviet block has failed

                    • Shadrach

                      I just did. The entire former soviet block.

                    • KJT

                      An authoritarian oligarchy.

                      Russia was democratic and socialist for an entire two weeks, before the Bolsheviks and Stalinists took over.

                      Meanwhile Democratic socialism has worked extremely well.

                      Including the US new deal and New Zealands welfare state. Until you and your cronies, fucked it!

                    • Shadrach

                      "Russia was democratic and socialist for an entire two weeks, before the Bolsheviks and Stalinists took over."

                      Rubbish.

    • reason 7.2

      Apartheid Israel is the one you should be comparing to Apartheid south africa ….

      The coup in Venezuela is also a racist minority who can not take power through elections, ….. Hence

      In the case of Venezuela, Secretary General Antonio Guterres has offered his good offices in mediating and the High Commissioner Michelle Bachelet has endorsed the call for mediation. The problem is that the opposition wants to come to power by force – by a coup

      The usa are doing your killing, that you don't care about …… shradach

      Sanctions are clearly the 21st century’s deadliest weapon of mass destruction.

      America’s economic sanctions have killed more innocent people than all of the nuclear, biological and chemical weapons ever used in the history of mankind.

      The United Nations estimates that 1.7 million Iraqis died due to Bill Clinton’s sanctions; 500,000 of whom were children. https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/02/01/sanctions-of-mass-destruction-americas-war-on-venezuela/

      Socialism

      In 1967 Libya was one of the poorest nations in Africa; however, by the time Colonel Gaddafi was assassinated, Libya had become Africa’s wealthiest nation.

      NATO destroyed and raped it …… War Capitalism ?

      Trump hired Elliot Abrams as U.S. Special Envoy for Venezuela,

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrcT3GJuh0A&t=377s

      • Shadrach 7.2.1

        The moment you labelled the only enduring democratic state in the Middle east 'apartheid' is the moment you lost any sense of reason.

        • KJT 7.2.1.1

          Where is your moral compass?

          No wonder why you support the sanctions against Venezuela. Starving and/or bombing civilians is just part of "realpolitik" eh?

    • Mike Smith 7.3

      @ Shadrach 7

      I did support the anti-Springbok tour boycotts – as far as I know they did not kill anybody

      • Shadrach 7.3.1

        That's a sidestep. You didn't mention 'killing people' in your OP, you said the sanctions were "expressly designed to drive whole populations into poverty to bring about regime change. They are sociopathic." First of all I'm not sure where you get your evidence that the sanctions were 'designed' for that purpose. Secondly, the economic sanctions against SA significantly benefitted the rich.

        • In Vino 7.3.1.1

          Shadrach, are you deliberately playing the idiot? The OP was about current sanctions on Iran and Venezuela. It was you who introduced the false equivalence of South Africa. Iran has suffered such US -led sanctions before, and it is recognised that for lack of medicine, etc, thousands of Iranian children died. When asked whether this was justified, some right wing US lady official actually claimed that it was.. Such deaths never occurred in South Africa because of any sanction – the Apartheid Govt was economically powerful, and the nominal economic sanctions were full of holes.

          It now seems that the US wants Venezuelans to suffer like the Iranians already have, and may well again.

          South Africa is irrelevant to this situation, as is the nonsense you peddle.

        • Incognito 7.3.1.2

          That's a sidestep. You didn't mention 'killing people' in your OP, you said the sanctions were "expressly designed to drive whole populations into poverty to bring about regime change.

          I apologise! You don’t have an issue with reading comprehension at all! It is your eyesight and you need reading glasses toot sweet.

          Sanctions are the only form of warfare where it is considered both legal and acceptable to deliberately target a civilian population with deadly force. [my bold]

          It is in the OP, FYI.

          The OP, however, did not mention SA; you brought that into your narrative because it suited you. Everybody else is looking straight through you so why don’t you give up this charade?

          • Shadrach 7.3.1.2.1

            "It is in the OP, FYI."

            No, it isn't. The 'Deadly Force' reference is a quote from another source, not from the author.

            "…you brought that into your narrative because it suited you. "

            Nope. I brought that up to test whether or not the author was a supporter of sanctions against South Africa, because they were also economic in nature.

            • Incognito 7.3.1.2.1.1

              The Author used that specific quote in his Post for a good reason and thus reinforced the quote. Sometimes, others say it so well or so much better that a quote is preferred. He further confirmed this, in his own words, in his reply to you @ 7.3. You have missed the meaning of the OP and misunderstood his reply to you. Get over yourself and admit that you are dancing on a pinhead.

              So, you were no asking a question and interested in the answer for the purpose of debate; you were testing the Author to see how he’d fail to confirm to your narrative and trying to set up a gotcha moment. Nice one!

              The economic nature of sanctions is not sufficient an argument. Never mind.

              • Shadrach

                I, you have a serious reading deficit. I said this:

                "You didn't mention 'killing people' in your OP, you said the sanctions were "expressly designed to drive whole populations into poverty to bring about regime change. They are sociopathic.""

                You is the OP writer. The OP writer never mentioned 'killing people'. He quoted someone else who did.

                "You have missed the meaning of the OP and misunderstood his reply to you. "

                The only person misunderstanding here is you.

                • Incognito

                  mention

                  /ˈmɛnʃ(ə)n/

                  verb

                  1. refer to (something) briefly and without going into detail.

                  Now you mention it, the Author did mention it in a quote in his OP, and then later in his comment. Don’t mention it.

                  • Shadrach

                    The author did NOT mention it, even by your own definition. He quoted someone who did.

                    • Incognito

                      <sigh>

                      He mentioned it in and by a quote. In other words, he referred to it. I can give you a whole list of synonyms of mention, if you like.

                      You are really struggling with the English language, aren’t you?

                    • McFlock

                      shadders struggles more and more with basic English as the shadderhole being dug gets deeper and deeper. It's classic shadders, lol

                    • Incognito []

                      It is like watching a so-called functioning alcoholic and wondering how on Earth they manage to do it. It is frightening to watch, I can tell you.

                    • Shadrach

                      "You are really struggling with the English language, aren’t you?"

                      No, I’m really not. The author did not refer to it. He referenced a quote from someone else. Your stretching of credibility to justify your own poor comprehension is humorous.

                    • Incognito []

                      No, I’m really not. The author did not refer to it. He referenced a quote from someone else. [my italics]

                      It is official: you fail English reading comprehension and basic logical reasoning; the two words even have the same etymology. Sad.

                    • Shadrach

                      "It is official: you fail English reading comprehension and basic logical reasoning; the two words even have the same etymology."

                      You really are slow.

                      Mention – 'to make mention of'

                      https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mention

                      The 'author' did not 'make mention' of it. He quoted from someone else who did.

                    • Incognito []

                      I hate to bring it to you but from your own link: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mention#synonyms

                      Synonyms for mention
                      Synonyms: Noun
                      acknowledgment (or acknowledgement), citation, commendation

                      Synonyms: Verb
                      advert (to), cite, drop, instance, name, note, notice, quote, refer (to), specify, touch (on or upon) [my emphasis]

                      There’s more if you need it: https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/mention

                      So sad.

                    • Shadrach

                      You fell right in.

                      You have cherry picked the definition that suits your argument. So can I. There it is. But it was me that made the comment. Only I know what I meant. The OP author did not mention 'killing people'. He quoted another writer who did. There.

                    • Incognito []

                      Only I know what I meant.

                      QED

  8. Incognito 8

    If only the National Party would show such independent and forthright thinking on Climate Change, for example. As always, it is about power & control and money. It is indeed a hallmark of socio-pathology to defend the indefensible whilst claiming the moral high ground in standing up for our Kiwi values, our freedoms, and our liberties. They would sell us out to the highest bidder claiming that it is good for us.

    “National is supportive of efforts to reduce emissions, however we must also ensure our approach manages economic impacts and is in line with a global response.

    https://www.national.org.nz/national_supports_climate_change_bill_but_with_major_concerns

  9. vto 9

    That spells it all out clearly for me and the next ten years of National Party policy… no need to see or hear more…

    Ignorantly evil

  10. Gosman 10

    Were targetted sanctions against Zimbabwe justified then? These were imposed by a Labour led government.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=1241205

    • Grant 10.1

      Do you not understand the difference between sanctions carefully TARGETED at members of a regime and more generalised sanctions designed to simply cripple the economy of an entire nation state?

      • Gosman 10.1.1

        LOL! Yes I do and I also know that the governments in the nations involved don't make a distinction between the two. They argue both are "illegal".

        • Grant 10.1.1.1

          The OP is not about sanctions TARGETED at elite members of a rogue regime. It is about whether GOVERNMENTS have the right to drive POPULATIONS into poverty by using generalised widespread sanctions as an economic weapon designed to cause regime change. I for one care not a jot whether Mugabe and Co. whined about the targeted sanctions being illegal. That is neither here nor there. However YOU PERSONALLY tried to tie targeted and generalised sanctions together as though they were the same thing in order, presumably, to muddy the waters of the debate. I find your debating tactics to be disturbingly dishonest Gosman.

  11. Gosman 11

    I'm fascinated why countries that are generally "anti-imperialist" and/or "anti-Western" and/or "anti-Capitalist" need to be able to trade freely with and have financial support from the nations that they are hostile towards.

    • KJT 11.1

      Like the "anti communist" USA, depending on China, for bailout loans?

      • Gosman 11.1.1

        Umm… China is Communist in name only and the US is not trying to argue that the Chinese system should be brought down.

    • adam 11.2

      So gossy underneath all the rhetoric your a stinking imperialist. No surprises there then…

      Like so many libertarians before you, scratch the surface and a totalitarian comes rolling out.

  12. David Mac 12

    Sanctions offer Mafia like leverage. If you want to apply pressure to someone, threaten their family.

    Stupid barbaric way of getting someone to do what you want if you ask me.

    The only quality way to get someone to do what you want is to persaude them to feel that way themselves and take the steps because they wish to.

    Holding a gun to the people's wellbeing is no solution, it's escalation.

    • Gosman 12.1

      Did you disagree with NZ inposing sanctions on Zimbabwe then David Mc?

      • Grant 12.1.1

        See my reply above.

      • David Mac 12.1.2

        With a few notable exceptions, like a general population requesting them, I think they're fundamentally flawed Gosman.

        Cutting off the medicine my daughter needs to live is a foolish way to get me to do something differently. I might play along for a period, save my girl's life, but for all the wrong reasons, reluctant temporary compliance at best. Govt applied sanctions are hate/fear incubators.

        If you punch me Gosman, my immediate response is a desire to punch you back harder. I want to be a person that will respond by securing your hands, buying you a beer (with straw) and talking.

        Sanctions are about 'Slap me will you! I'm going to slap you back harder.' They're destructive, not constructive.

    • Gosman 12.2

      What about sancrions against Apartheid South Africa?

      What about the BDS movement against Israel?

      • Grant 12.2.1

        The BDS movement consists of international individuals and businesses who are non-state actors making their own personal decisions about whether they can stomach doing business with a country whose citizens overwhelmingly support their Goverment’s actions and policies which many people find to be nauseating. Any time the Israelis feel an economic pinch I guess they could cut back on throwing bombs at Gaza and put the money into civilian needs instead.

        As far as South Africa is concerned, I have a clear memory of the ANC and others (Bishop Tutu??) begging the world to impose sanctions because the pain would be worth it in the long run and things couldn't get much worse for them anyway. After sanctions were imposed and actually started to bite a bit they reiterated their approval of this method of bringing the apartheid regime to the table. Are you too young to remember this or are you just being dishonest?

        • Gosman 12.2.1.1

          There are lots of non State actors in the nations involved that are supportive of sanctions against Venezuela and Zimbabwe.

          • Grant 12.2.1.1.1

            The OP and thus the debate below it is about whether GOVERNMENTS have the right to drive POPULATIONS into poverty and deprivation.

            I pointed out that BDS was not applicable to the debate in hand yet you still continue down this spurious line of argument.

            Are you intellectually dishonest or just hard of thinking?

            • Gosman 12.2.1.1.1.1

              I am addressing the points you raised about South africa where you are seemingly arguing that if some people in a country are supportive of sanctions against that nation then the sanctions are valid. Why does this situation not apply to Venezuela?

              • Grant

                And again you muddy the waters. Is this deliberate or do you have trouble with linear thought processes?

                My comment at 12.2.1 was clearly divided into two parts responding to two separate issue you raised.

                In your response at 12.2.1.1 You conflated these two quite separate points to try and create a new line of argument.

                I do not believe that you can be so stupid that you can't distinguish between BDS and the US govt using sanctions to create regime change. Nor do I believe you can't see the difference between the situation in Venezuela now and that of Sth Africa during the apartheid era.

                I am left with no option but to believe that you are a deliberately duplicitous smart-arse.

                • Gosman

                  I don't see the difference between the situation in Venezuela now and South Africa in the 1980's. In both cases there was an undemocratic regime carrying out appalling policies that were hurting the majority of the population.

                  • KJT

                    Except Venezuela has a democratic Government, which the majority support.

                    Which the USA has been trying to remove by destroying their economy.

                    Because the US civilian enthusiasm for the other option. Bombing them into changing their Government, has waned, since other recent similar adventures have proved so costly.

      • Incognito 12.2.2

        Oh dear, whataboutism, the rhetorical tool of a fool. People who do not understand the OP and the meaning or message of the Author often use it. Another group of people use it to set up a false equivalence in order to deflect from the OP and push their own barrow; they are disingenuous and not interested in genuine debate in good faith. A few rare individuals fit in both groups.

  13. Grant 13

    Not a major issue but if a mod could remove my surname from my previous comments please?

  14. greywarshark 14

    What a learned discourse.

    • roblogic 14.1

      Yes, I have learned that capitalism is great, sanctions are great, and big government intervention is cool if it stops those horrible socialists from spreading democracy

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • At a glance – Does CO2 always correlate with temperature?
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    2 hours ago
  • Bernard’s six-stack of substacks at 6.06 pm on Tuesday, March 19
    TL;DR: In today’s ‘six-stack’ of substacks at 6.06pm on Tuesday, March 19:Kāinga Ora’s dry rot The Spinoff DailyBill McKibben on ‘Climate Superfunds’ making Big Oil pay for climate damage The Crucial YearsPreston Mui on returning to 1980s-style productivity growth NoahpinionAndy Boenau on NIMBYs needing unusual bedfellows Urbanism SpeakeasyNed Resnikoff's case ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 hours ago
  • Relentlessly negative
    Negative yesterday, negative today. Negative all year, according to one departing reader telling me I’ve grown strident and predictable. Fair enough. If it’s any help, every time I go to write about a certain topic that begins with C and ends with arrrrs, I do brace myself and ask: Again? Are ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 hours ago
  • Scoring 4.6 out of 10, the new Government is struggling in the polls
    Bryce Edwards writes –  It’s been a tumultuous time in politics in recent months, as the new National-led Government has driven through its “First 100 Day programme”. During this period there’s been a handful of opinion polls, which overall just show a minimal amount of flux in public support ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 hours ago
  • Promiscuous Empathy: Chris Trotter Replies To His Critics.
    Inspirational: The Family of Man is a glorious hymn to human equality, but, more than that, it is a clarion call to human freedom. Because equality, unleavened by liberty, is a broken piano, an unstrung harp; upon which the songs of fraternity will never be played. “Somebody must have been telling lies about ...
    5 hours ago
  • Don’t run your business like a criminal enterprise
    The Detail this morning highlights the police's asset forfeiture case against convicted business criminal Ron Salter, who stands to have his business confiscated for systemic violations of health and safety law. Business are crying foul - but not for the reason you'd think. Instead of opposing the post-conviction punishment and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 hours ago
  • Misremembering Justinian’s Taxes.
    Tax Lawyer Barbara Edmonds vs Emperor Justinian I - Nolo Contendere: False historical explanations of pivotal events are very far from being inconsequential.WHEN BARBARA EDMONDS made reference to the Roman Empire, my ears pricked up. It is, lamentably, very rare to hear a politician admit to any kind of familiarity ...
    6 hours ago
  • Bryce Edwards: Scoring 4.6 out of 10, the new Government is struggling in the polls
    It’s been a tumultuous time in politics in recent months, as the new National-led Government has driven through its “First 100 Day programme”. During this period there’s been a handful of opinion polls, which overall just show a minimal amount of flux in public support for the various parties in ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    7 hours ago
  • Bishop scores headlines with crackdown on unwelcome tenants – but Peters scores, too, as tub-thump...
    Buzz from the Beehive Housing Minister Chris Bishop delivered news – packed with the ingredients to enflame political passions – worthy of supplanting Winston Peters in headline writers’ priorities. He popped up at the post-Cabinet press conference to promise a crackdown on unruly and antisocial state housing tenants. His ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    8 hours ago
  • Will it make the boat go faster?
    Ele Ludemann writes – The Reserve Bank is advertising for a Diversity, Equity and Inclusion advisor. The Bank has one mandate – to keep inflation between one and three percent. It has failed in that and is only slowly getting inflation back down to the upper limit. Will it ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    11 hours ago
  • Bryce Edwards: Is Simon Bridges’ NZTA appointment a conflict of interest?
    Last week former National Party leader Simon Bridges was appointed by the Government as the new chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency Waka Kotahi (NZTA). You can read about the appointment in Thomas Coughlan’s article, Simon Bridges to become chair of NZ Transport Agency Waka Kotahi The fact that a ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    11 hours ago
  • Is Simon Bridges’ NZTA appointment a conflict of interest?
    Bryce Edwards writes – Last week former National Party leader Simon Bridges was appointed by the Government as the new chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency Waka Kotahi (NZTA). You can read about the appointment in Thomas Coughlan’s article, Simon Bridges to become chair of NZ Transport Agency ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    11 hours ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' at 10:10am on Tuesday, March 19
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Gavin Jacobson talks to Thomas Piketty 10 years on from Capital in the 21st Century The SalvoLocal scoop: Green MP’s business being investigated over migrant exploitation claims Stuff Steve KilgallonLocal deep-dive: The commercial contractors making money from School ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    11 hours ago
  • Bernard's six newsy things on Tuesday, March 19
    It’s a home - but Kāinga Ora tenants accused of “abusing the privilege” may lose it. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The Government announced a crackdown on Kāinga Ora tenants who were unruly and/or behind on their rent, with Housing Minister Chris Bishop saying a place in a state ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    13 hours ago
  • New Life for Light Rail
    This is a guest post by Connor Sharp of Surface Light Rail  Light rail in Auckland: A way forward sooner than you think With the coup de grâce of Auckland Light Rail (ALR) earlier this year, and the shift of the government’s priorities to roads, roads, and more roads, it ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    14 hours ago
  • Why Are Bosses Nearly All Buffoons?
    Note: As a paid-up Webworm member, I’ve recorded this Webworm as a mini-podcast for you as well. Some of you said you liked this option - so I aim to provide it when I get a chance to record! Read more ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    16 hours ago
  • Bernard’s six-stack of substacks at 6.06 pm on March 18
    TL;DR: In my ‘six-stack’ of substacks at 6.06pm on Monday, March 18:IKEA is accused of planting big forests in New Zealand to green-wash; REDD-MonitorA City for People takes a well-deserved victory lap over Wellington’s pro-YIMBY District Plan votes; A City for PeopleSteven Anastasiou takes a close look at the sticky ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago
  • Peters holds his ground on co-governance, but Willis wriggles on those tax cuts and SNA suspension l...
    Buzz from the Beehive Here’s hoping for a lively post-cabinet press conference when the PM and – perhaps – some of his ministers tell us what was discussed at their meeting today. Until then, Point of Order has precious little Beehive news to report after its latest monitoring of the ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 day ago
  • Labour’s final report card
    David Farrar writes –  We now have almost all 2023 data in, which has allowed me to update my annual table of how  went against its promises. This is basically their final report card. The promise The result Build 100,000 affordable homes over 10 ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 day ago
  • “Drunk Uncle at a Wedding”
    I’m a bit worried that I’ve started a previous newsletter with the words “just when you think they couldn’t get any worse…” Seems lately that I could begin pretty much every issue with that opening. Such is the nature of our coalition government that they seem to be outdoing each ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 day ago
  • Wang Yi’s perfectly-timed, Aukus-themed visit to New Zealand
    Geoffrey Miller writes – Timing is everything. And from China’s perspective, this week’s visit by its foreign minister to New Zealand could be coming at just the right moment. The visit by Wang Yi to Wellington will be his first since 2017. Anniversaries are important to Beijing. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 day ago
  • Gordon Campbell on Dune 2, and images of Islam
    Depictions of Islam in Western popular culture have rarely been positive, even before 9/11. Five years on from the mosque shootings, this is one of the cultural headwinds that the Muslim community has to battle against. Whatever messages of tolerance and inclusion are offered in daylight, much of our culture ...
    1 day ago
  • New Rail Operations Centre Promises Better Train Services
    Last week Transport Minster Simeon Brown and Mayor Wayne Brown opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre. The new train control centre will see teams from KiwiRail, Auckland Transport and Auckland One Rail working more closely together to improve train services across the city. The Auckland Rail Operations Centre in ...
    2 days ago
  • Bernard's six newsy things at 6.36am on Monday, March 18
    Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Retiring former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson said in an exit interview with Q+A yesterday the Government can and should sustain more debt to invest in infrastructure for future generations. Elsewhere in the news in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 6:36am: Read more ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: Wang Yi’s perfectly-timed, Aukus-themed visit to New Zealand
    Timing is everything. And from China’s perspective, this week’s visit by its foreign minister to New Zealand could be coming at just the right moment. The visit by Wang Yi to Wellington will be his first since 2017. Anniversaries are important to Beijing. It is more than just a happy ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    2 days ago
  • The Kaka’s diary for the week to March 25 and beyond
    TL;DR: The key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to March 18 include:China’s Foreign Minister visiting Wellington today;A post-cabinet news conference this afternoon; the resumption of Parliament on Tuesday for two weeks before Easter;retiring former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson gives his valedictory speech in Parliament; ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • Bitter and angry; Winston First
    New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters’s state-of-the-nation speech on Sunday was really a state-of-Winston-First speech. He barely mentioned any of the Government’s key policies and could not even wholly endorse its signature income tax cuts. Instead, he rehearsed all of his complaints about the Ardern Government, including an extraordinary claim ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    2 days ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #11
    A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 10, 2024 thru Sat, March 16, 2024. Story of the week This week we'll give you a little glimpse into how we collect links to share and ...
    2 days ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #11
    A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 10, 2024 thru Sat, March 16, 2024. Story of the week This week we'll give you a little glimpse into how we collect links to share and ...
    2 days ago
  • Out of Touch.
    “I’ve been internalising a really complicated situation in my head.”When they kept telling us we should wait until we get to know him, were they taking the piss? Was it a case of, if you think this is bad, wait till you get to know the real Christopher, after the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago
  • Bring out your Dad
    Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • Bring out your Dad
    Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • Bring out your Dad
    Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • The bewildering world of Chris Luxon – Guns for all, not no lunch for kids
    .“$10 and a target that bleeds” - Bleeding Targets for Under $10!.Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.This government appears hell-bent on either scrapping life-saving legislation or reintroducing things that - frustrated critics insist - will be dangerous and likely ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    3 days ago
  • Expert Opinion: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.
    It hardly strikes me as fair to criticise a government for doing exactly what it said it was going to do. For actually keeping its promises.”THUNDER WAS PLAYING TAG with lightning flashes amongst the distant peaks. Its rolling cadences interrupted by the here-I-come-here-I-go Doppler effect of the occasional passing car. ...
    3 days ago
  • Manufacturing The Truth.
    Subversive & Disruptive Technologies: Just as happened with that other great regulator of the masses, the Medieval Church, the advent of a new and hard-to-control technology – the Internet –  is weakening the ties that bind. Then, and now, those who enjoy a monopoly on the dissemination of lies, cannot and will ...
    3 days ago
  • A Powerful Sensation of Déjà Vu.
    Been Here Before: To find the precedents for what this Coalition Government is proposing, it is necessary to return to the “glory days” of Muldoonism.THE COALITION GOVERNMENT has celebrated its first 100 days in office by checking-off the last of its listed commitments. It remains, however, an angry government. It ...
    3 days ago
  • Can you guess where world attention is focussed (according to Greenpeace)? It’s focussed on an EPA...
    Bob Edlin writes –  And what is the world watching today…? The email newsletter from Associated Press which landed in our mailbox early this morning advised: In the news today: The father of a school shooter has been found guilty of involuntary manslaughter; prosecutors in Trump’s hush-money case ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
  • Further integrity problems for the Greens in suspending MP Darleen Tana
    Bryce Edwards writes – Is another Green MP on their way out? And are the Greens severely tarnished by another integrity scandal? For the second time in three months, the Green Party has secretly suspended an MP over integrity issues. Mystery is surrounding the party’s decision to ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • Jacqui Van Der Kaay: Greens’ transparency missing in action
    For the last few years, the Green Party has been the party that has managed to avoid the plague of multiple scandals that have beleaguered other political parties. It appears that their luck has run out with a second scandal which, unfortunately for them, coincided with Golraz Ghahraman, the focus ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    4 days ago
  • Bernard’s Dawn Chorus with six newsey things at 6:46am for Saturday, March 16
    TL;DR: The six newsey things that stood out to me as of 6:46am on Saturday, March 16.Andy Foster has accidentally allowed a Labour/Green amendment to cut road user chargers for plug-in hybrid vehicles, which the Government might accept; NZ Herald Thomas Coughlan Simeon Brown has rejected a plea from Westport ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • How Did FTX Crash?
    What seemed a booming success a couple of years ago has collapsed into fraud convictions.I looked at the crash of FTX (short for ‘Futures Exchange’) in November 2022 to see whether it would impact on the financial system as a whole. Fortunately there was barely a ripple, probably because it ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    4 days ago
  • Elections in Russia and Ukraine
    Anybody following the situation in Ukraine and Russia would probably have been amused by a recent Tweet on X NATO seems to be putting in an awful lot of effort to influence what is, at least according to them, a sham election in an autocracy.When do the Ukrainians go to ...
    4 days ago
  • Bernard’s six stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15
    TL;DR: Shaun Baker on Wynyard Quarter's transformation. Magdalene Taylor on the problem with smart phones. How private equity are now all over reinsurance. Dylan Cleaver on rugby and CTE. Emily Atkin on ‘Big Meat’ looking like ‘Big Oil’.Bernard’s six-stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15Photo by Jeppe Hove Jensen ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Buzz from the Beehive Finance Minister Nicola Willis had plenty to say when addressing the Auckland Business Chamber on the economic growth that (she tells us) is flagging more than we thought. But the government intends to put new life into it:  We want our country to be a ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago
  • National’s clean car tax advances
    The Transport and Infrastructure Committee has reported back on the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill, basicly rubberstamping it. While there was widespread support among submitters for the principle that EV and PHEV drivers should pay their fair share for the roads, they also overwhelmingly disagreed with ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Government funding bailouts
    Peter Dunne writes – This week’s government bailout – the fifth in the last eighteen months – of the financially troubled Ruapehu Alpine Lifts company would have pleased many in the central North Island ski industry. The government’s stated rationale for the $7 million funding was that it ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Two offenders, different treatments.
    See if you can spot the difference. An Iranian born female MP from a progressive party is accused of serial shoplifting. Her name is leaked to the media, which goes into a pack frenzy even before the Police launch an … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    4 days ago
  • Treaty references omitted
    Ele Ludemann writes  – The government is omitting general Treaty references from legislation : The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last Government in a bid to get greater coherence in the public service on Treaty ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • The Ghahraman Conflict
    What was that judge thinking? Peter Williams writes –  That Golriz Ghahraman and District Court Judge Maria Pecotic were once lawyer colleagues is incontrovertible. There is published evidence that they took at least one case to the Court of Appeal together. There was a report on ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 15
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Climate Scorpion – the sting is in the tail. Introducing planetary solvency. A paper via the University of Exeter’s Institute and Faculty of Actuaries.Local scoop: Kāinga Ora starts pulling out of its Auckland projects and selling land RNZ ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • The day Wellington up-zoned its future
    Wellington’s massively upzoned District Plan adds the opportunity for tens of thousands of new homes not just in the central city (such as these Webb St new builds) but also close to the CBD and public transport links. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Wellington gave itself the chance of ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 15-March-2024
    It’s Friday and we’re halfway through March Madness. Here’s some of the things that caught our attention this week. This Week in Greater Auckland On Monday Matt asked how we can get better event trains and an option for grade separating Morningside Dr. On Tuesday Matt looked into ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    5 days ago
  • That Word.
    Something you might not know about me is that I’m quite a stubborn person. No, really. I don’t much care for criticism I think’s unfair or that I disagree with. Few of us do I suppose.Back when I was a drinker I’d sometimes respond defensively, even angrily. There are things ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to March 15
    Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:PM Christopher Luxon said the reversal of interest deductibility for landlords was done to help renters, who ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Labour’s policy gap
    It was not so much the Labour Party but really the Chris Hipkins party yesterday at Labour’s caucus retreat in Martinborough. The former Prime Minister was more or less consistent on wealth tax, which he was at best equivocal about, and social insurance, which he was not willing to revisit. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #11 2024
    Open access notables A Glimpse into the Future: The 2023 Ocean Temperature and Sea Ice Extremes in the Context of Longer-Term Climate Change, Kuhlbrodt et al., Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society: In the year 2023, we have seen extraordinary extrema in high sea surface temperature (SST) in the North Atlantic and in ...
    5 days ago
  • Melissa remains mute on media matters but has something to say (at a sporting event) about economic ...
     Buzz from the Beehive   The text reproduced above appears on a page which records all the media statements and speeches posted on the government’s official website by Melissa Lee as Minister of Media and Communications and/or by Jenny Marcroft, her Parliamentary Under-secretary.  It can be quickly analysed ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago
  • The return of Muldoon
    For forty years, Robert Muldoon has been a dirty word in our politics. His style of government was so repulsive and authoritarian that the backlash to it helped set and entrench our constitutional norms. His pig-headedness over forcing through Think Big eventually gave us the RMA, with its participation and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Will the rental tax cut improve life for renters or landlords?
    Bryce Edwards writes –  Is the new government reducing tax on rental properties to benefit landlords or to cut the cost of rents? That’s the big question this week, after Associate Finance Minister David Seymour announced on Sunday that the Government would be reversing the Labour Government’s removal ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: What Saudi Arabia’s rapid changes mean for New Zealand
    Saudi Arabia is rarely far from the international spotlight. The war in Gaza has brought new scrutiny to Saudi plans to normalise relations with Israel, while the fifth anniversary of the controversial killing of Jamal Khashoggi was marked shortly before the war began on October 7. And as the home ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    5 days ago
  • Racism’s double standards
    Questions need to be asked on both sides of the world Peter Williams writes –   The NRL Judiciary hands down an eight week suspension to Sydney Roosters forward Spencer Leniu , an Auckland-born Samoan, after he calls Ezra Mam, Sydney-orn but of Aboriginal and Torres Strait ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • It’s not a tax break
    Ele Ludemann writes – Contrary to what many headlines and news stories are saying, residential landlords are not getting a tax break. The government is simply restoring to them the tax deductibility of interest they had until the previous government removed it. There is no logical reason ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • The Plastic Pig Collective and Chris' Imaginary Friends.
    I can't remember when it was goodMoments of happiness in bloomMaybe I just misunderstoodAll of the love we left behindWatching our flashbacks intertwineMemories I will never findIn spite of whatever you becomeForget that reckless thing turned onI think our lives have just begunI think our lives have just begunDoes anyone ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • Who is responsible for young offenders?
    Michael Bassett writes – At first reading, a front-page story in the New Zealand Herald on 13 March was bizarre. A group of severely intellectually limited teenagers, with little understanding of the law, have been pleading to the Justice Select Committee not to pass a bill dealing with ram ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on National’s fantasy trip to La La Landlord Land
    How much political capital is Christopher Luxon willing to burn through in order to deliver his $2.9 billion gift to landlords? Evidently, Luxon is: (a) unable to cost the policy accurately. As Anna Burns-Francis pointed out to him on Breakfast TV, the original ”rock solid” $2.1 billion cost he was ...
    5 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 14
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Jonathon Porritt calling bullshit in his own blog post on mainstream climate science as ‘The New Denialism’.Local scoop: The Wellington City Council’s list of proposed changes to the IHP recommendations to be debated later today was leaked this ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • No, Prime Minister, rents don’t rise or fall with landlords’ costs
    TL;DR: Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said yesterday tenants should be grateful for the reinstatement of interest deductibility because landlords would pass on their lower tax costs in the form of lower rents. That would be true if landlords were regulated monopolies such as Transpower or Auckland Airport1, but they’re not, ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • Cartoons: ‘At least I didn’t make things awkward’
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Tom Toro Tom Toro is a cartoonist and author. He has published over 200 cartoons in The New Yorker since 2010. His cartoons appear in Playboy, the Paris Review, the New York Times, American Bystander, and elsewhere. Related: What 10 EV lovers ...
    6 days ago
  • Solving traffic congestion with Richard Prebble
    The business section of the NZ Herald is full of opinion. Among the more opinionated of all is the ex-Minister of Transport, ex-Minister of Railways, ex MP for Auckland Central (1975-93, Labour), Wellington Central (1996-99, ACT, then list-2005), ex-leader of the ACT Party, uncle to actor Antonia, the veritable granddaddy ...
    Greater AucklandBy Patrick Reynolds
    6 days ago
  • I Think I'm Done Flying Boeing
    Hi,Just quickly — I’m blown away by the stories you’ve shared with me over the last week since I put out the ‘Gary’ podcast, where I told you about the time my friend’s flatmate killed the neighbour.And you keep telling me stories — in the comments section, and in my ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    6 days ago
  • Invoking Aristotle: Of Rings of Power, Stones, and Ships
    The first season of Rings of Power was not awful. It was thoroughly underwhelming, yes, and left a lingering sense of disappointment, but it was more expensive mediocrity than catastrophe. I wrote at length about the series as it came out (see the Review section of the blog, and go ...
    6 days ago
  • Van Velden brings free-market approach to changing labour laws – but her colleagues stick to distr...
    Buzz from the Beehive Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden told Auckland Business Chamber members they were the first audience to hear her priorities as a minister in a government committed to cutting red tape and regulations. She brandished her liberalising credentials, saying Flexible labour markets are the ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • Why Newshub failed
    Chris Trotter writes – TO UNDERSTAND WHY NEWSHUB FAILED, it is necessary to understand how TVNZ changed. Up until 1989, the state broadcaster had been funded by a broadcasting licence fee, collected from every citizen in possession of a television set, supplemented by a relatively modest (compared ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago
  • Māori Party on the warpath against landlords and seabed miners – let’s see if mystical creature...
    Bob Edlin writes  –  The Māori Party has been busy issuing a mix of warnings and threats as its expresses its opposition to interest deductibility for landlords and the plans of seabed miners. It remains to be seen whether they  follow the example of indigenous litigants in Australia, ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago

  • Government moves to quickly ratify the NZ-EU FTA
    "The Government is moving quickly to realise an additional $46 million in tariff savings in the EU market this season for Kiwi exporters,” Minister for Trade and Agriculture, Todd McClay says. Parliament is set, this week, to complete the final legislative processes required to bring the New Zealand – European ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago
  • Positive progress for social worker workforce
    New Zealand’s social workers are qualified, experienced, and more representative of the communities they serve, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “I want to acknowledge and applaud New Zealand’s social workers for the hard work they do, providing invaluable support for our most vulnerable. “To coincide with World ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago
  • Minister confirms reduced RUC rate for PHEVs
    Cabinet has agreed to a reduced road user charge (RUC) rate for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. Owners of PHEVs will be eligible for a reduced rate of $38 per 1,000km once all light electric vehicles (EVs) move into the RUC system from 1 April.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    11 hours ago
  • Trade access to overseas markets creates jobs
    Minister of Agriculture and Trade, Todd McClay, says that today’s opening of Riverland Foods manufacturing plant in Christchurch is a great example of how trade access to overseas markets creates jobs in New Zealand.  Speaking at the official opening of this state-of-the-art pet food factory the Minister noted that exports ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    12 hours ago
  • NZ and Chinese Foreign Ministers hold official talks
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Wellington today. “It was a pleasure to host Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his first official visit to New Zealand since 2017. Our discussions were wide-ranging and enabled engagement on many facets of New Zealand’s relationship with China, including trade, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Kāinga Ora instructed to end Sustaining Tenancies
    Kāinga Ora – Homes & Communities has been instructed to end the Sustaining Tenancies Framework and take stronger measures against persistent antisocial behaviour by tenants, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Earlier today Finance Minister Nicola Willis and I sent an interim Letter of Expectations to the Board of Kāinga Ora. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Speech to Auckland Business Chamber: Growth is the answer
    Tēna koutou katoa. Greetings everyone. Thank you to the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the Honourable Simon Bridges for hosting this address today. I acknowledge the business leaders in this room, the leaders and governors, the employers, the entrepreneurs, the investors, and the wealth creators. The coalition Government shares your ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Singapore rounds out regional trip
    Minister Winston Peters completed the final leg of his visit to South and South East Asia in Singapore today, where he focused on enhancing one of New Zealand’s indispensable strategic partnerships.      “Singapore is our most important defence partner in South East Asia, our fourth-largest trading partner and a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister van Velden represents New Zealand at International Democracy Summit
    Minister of Internal Affairs and Workplace Relations and Safety, Hon. Brooke van Velden, will travel to the Republic of Korea to represent New Zealand at the Third Summit for Democracy on 18 March. The summit, hosted by the Republic of Korea, was first convened by the United States in 2021, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Insurance Council of NZ Speech, 7 March 2024, Auckland
    ICNZ Speech 7 March 2024, Auckland  Acknowledgements and opening  Mōrena, ngā mihi nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho.  Good morning, it’s a privilege to be here to open the ICNZ annual conference, thank you to Mark for the Mihi Whakatau  My thanks to Tim Grafton for inviting me ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Five-year anniversary of Christchurch terror attacks
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Lead Coordination Minister Judith Collins have expressed their deepest sympathy on the five-year anniversary of the Christchurch terror attacks. “March 15, 2019, was a day when families, communities and the country came together both in sorrow and solidarity,” Mr Luxon says.  “Today we pay our respects to the 51 shuhada ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024
    Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024  Acknowledgements and opening  Morena, Nga Mihi Nui.  Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Thanks Nate for your Mihi Whakatau  Good morning. It’s a pleasure to formally open your conference this morning. What a lovely day in Wellington, What a great ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Early visit to Indonesia strengthens ties
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters held discussions in Jakarta today about the future of relations between New Zealand and South East Asia’s most populous country.   “We are in Jakarta so early in our new government’s term to reflect the huge importance we place on our relationship with Indonesia and South ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • China Foreign Minister to visit
    Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters has announced that the Foreign Minister of China, Wang Yi, will visit New Zealand next week.  “We look forward to re-engaging with Foreign Minister Wang Yi and discussing the full breadth of the bilateral relationship, which is one of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister opens new Auckland Rail Operations Centre
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has today opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre, which will bring together KiwiRail, Auckland Transport, and Auckland One Rail to improve service reliability for Aucklanders. “The recent train disruptions in Auckland have highlighted how important it is KiwiRail and Auckland’s rail agencies work together to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Celebrating 10 years of Crankworx Rotorua
    The Government is proud to support the 10th edition of Crankworx Rotorua as the Crankworx World Tour returns to Rotorua from 16-24 March 2024, says Minister for Economic Development Melissa Lee.  “Over the past 10 years as Crankworx Rotorua has grown, so too have the economic and social benefits that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government delivering on tax commitments
    Legislation implementing coalition Government tax commitments and addressing long-standing tax anomalies will be progressed in Parliament next week, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The legislation is contained in an Amendment Paper to the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill issued today.  “The Amendment Paper represents ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Significant Natural Areas requirement to be suspended
    Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard has today announced that the Government has agreed to suspend the requirement for councils to comply with the Significant Natural Areas (SNA) provisions of the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity for three years, while it replaces the Resource Management Act (RMA).“As it stands, SNAs ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government classifies drought conditions in Top of the South as medium-scale adverse event
    Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has classified the drought conditions in the Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts as a medium-scale adverse event, acknowledging the challenging conditions facing farmers and growers in the district. “Parts of Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts are in the grip of an intense dry spell. I know ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government partnership to tackle $332m facial eczema problem
    The Government is helping farmers eradicate the significant impact of facial eczema (FE) in pastoral animals, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced.  “A $20 million partnership jointly funded by Beef + Lamb NZ, the Government, and the primary sector will save farmers an estimated NZD$332 million per year, and aims to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ, India chart path to enhanced relationship
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has completed a successful visit to India, saying it was an important step in taking the relationship between the two countries to the next level.   “We have laid a strong foundation for the Coalition Government’s priority of enhancing New Zealand-India relations to generate significant future benefit for both countries,” says Mr Peters, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Ruapehu Alpine Lifts bailout the last, say Ministers
    Cabinet has agreed to provide $7 million to ensure the 2024 ski season can go ahead on the Whakapapa ski field in the central North Island but has told the operator Ruapehu Alpine Lifts it is the last financial support it will receive from taxpayers. Cabinet also agreed to provide ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt takes action to drive better cancer services
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt takes action to drive better cancer services
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Work begins on SH29 upgrades near Tauriko
    Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Work begins on SH29 upgrades near Tauriko
    Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Fresh produce price drop welcome
    Lower fruit and vegetable prices are welcome news for New Zealanders who have been doing it tough at the supermarket, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. Stats NZ reported today the price of fruit and vegetables has dropped 9.3 percent in the 12 months to February 2024.  “Lower fruit and vege ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Statement to the 68th United Nations Commission on the Status of Women
    Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all.  Chair, I am honoured to address the sixty-eighth session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Speech to the 68th United Nations Commission on the Status of Women (CSW68)
    Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all.  Chair, I am honoured to address the 68th session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government backs rural led catchment projects
    The coalition Government is supporting farmers to enhance land management practices by investing $3.3 million in locally led catchment groups, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “Farmers and growers deliver significant prosperity for New Zealand and it’s vital their ongoing efforts to improve land management practices and water quality are supported,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Speech to Auckland Business Chamber
    Good evening everyone and thank you for that lovely introduction.   Thank you also to the Honourable Simon Bridges for the invitation to address your members. Since being sworn in, this coalition Government has hit the ground running with our 100-day plan, delivering the changes that New Zealanders expect of us. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Commission’s advice on ETS settings tabled
    Recommendations from the Climate Change Commission for New Zealand on the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) auction and unit limit settings for the next five years have been tabled in Parliament, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “The Commission provides advice on the ETS annually. This is the third time the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government lowering building costs
    The coalition Government is beginning its fight to lower building costs and reduce red tape by exempting minor building work from paying the building levy, says Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk. “Currently, any building project worth $20,444 including GST or more is subject to the building levy which is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Trustee tax change welcomed
    Proposed changes to tax legislation to prevent the over-taxation of low-earning trusts are welcome, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The changes have been recommended by Parliament’s Finance and Expenditure Committee following consideration of submissions on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill. “One of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Minister’s Ramadan message
    Assalaamu alaikum. السَّلَام عليكم In light of the holy month of Ramadan, I want to extend my warmest wishes to our Muslim community in New Zealand. Ramadan is a time for spiritual reflection, renewed devotion, perseverance, generosity, and forgiveness.  It’s a time to strengthen our bonds and appreciate the diversity ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Minister appoints new NZTA Chair
    Former Transport Minister and CEO of the Auckland Business Chamber Hon Simon Bridges has been appointed as the new Board Chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) for a three-year term, Transport Minister Simeon Brown announced today. “Simon brings extensive experience and knowledge in transport policy and governance to the role. He will ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speech to Life Sciences Summit
    Good morning all, it is a pleasure to be here as Minister of Science, Innovation and Technology.  It is fantastic to see how connected and collaborative the life science and biotechnology industry is here in New Zealand. I would like to thank BioTechNZ and NZTech for the invitation to address ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Progress continues apace on water storage
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says he is looking forward to the day when three key water projects in Northland are up and running, unlocking the full potential of land in the region. Mr Jones attended a community event at the site of the Otawere reservoir near Kerikeri on Friday. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government agrees to restore interest deductions
    Associate Finance Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government has agreed to restore deductibility for mortgage interest on residential investment properties. “Help is on the way for landlords and renters alike. The Government’s restoration of interest deductibility will ease pressure on rents and simplify the tax code,” says ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Minister to attend World Anti-Doping Agency Symposium
    Sport and Recreation Minister Chris Bishop will travel to Switzerland today to attend an Executive Committee meeting and Symposium of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). Mr Bishop will then travel on to London where he will attend a series of meetings in his capacity as Infrastructure Minister. “New Zealanders believe ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2024-03-19T08:34:57+00:00